WEBVTT - Boeing CEO to Step Down in Overhaul Sparked by Safety Crisis 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:10.719 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg Business 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:13.960 Wait inside from the reporters and editors who bring you 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:18.360 America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:22.840 tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol Messer 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:25.800 and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:30.400 Boeing shares initially at their high up almost four percent. 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:31.280 Today they're off. 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:34.360 Those levels, just up again about one point two percent. 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:36.240 But we had some big news early this morning. 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:38.680 Tim Yeah, CEO Dave Calhoun stepping down at the end 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:42.240 of the year. Chairman Larry Kellner will not stand for reelection. 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:46.120 Stan Deal, who's the umbattled chief of Boeing's Commercial airplane division, 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:50.000 also departing immediately. He'll be replaced by Chief Operating Officer 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:50.880 Stephanie Pope. 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:52.639 All Right, safe to say, much work to be done 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:54.920 as a planemaker continues to struggle to get a handle 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.440 on a spiraling safety crisis. So let's get to our 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:02.560 key interview on Monday. Bloomberg News Boston Bureau chief Brook 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:06.039 Sutherland with us. She's followed industrials and the space for years. 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:09.320 She's a writer for the Bloomberg Industrial Strength newsletter. With 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:11.760 us too, someone who knows so much about the aerospace 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:15.959 and airline industry, Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Aerospace, Defense and Airlines analyst, 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:19.720 George Ferguson. Hey, Brooke, and George, I feel like not 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:23.280 a surprise maybe the news today considering that a bunch 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:27.240 of airlines had meetings with Boeing's board last week. But 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:30.600 CEO Dave Calhoun was not a part of those meetings. 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:33.120 But let's go through it because it's important to understand 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:35.040 the details. Brook, let me start with you break down 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:37.520 the news and changes, who is all leaving, and what 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:39.280 it means for this company going forward. 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:44.360 Sure, so it's a pretty sweeping leadership overhaul. So Stan Deal, 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:47.760 who oversaw the commercial Airplanes division, is retiring. He will 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:50.080 be replaced by Stephanie Pope, who, as you said, had 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:53.600 just been appointed to chief operating officer. You also have 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:56.000 the chairman of the board who will not stand for 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:59.120 re election. And then CEO Dave Calhoun is planning to 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:01.160 depart at the end of the year. Now that is 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:03.920 a pretty long time away from now that they do 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:08.360 not have a replacement yet identified for Calhoun, and I 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:10.359 think that's really the key question, is you figure out 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:13.360 where Boeing goes from here and how it recovers is 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:15.320 who do they get to fill that job? 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:17.800 Yeah, so George, come on in on that. Where does 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:20.680 Boeing go from here? And will these leadership changes at 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:22.360 the top And we don't know them all yet, as 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:24.560 Brook mentioned, we still don't know of new CEO for 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:28.160 Boeing at this point. Does that is that enough to 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:30.240 turn the company around? Is that enough to fix Boeing? 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:31.280 Well? 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:34.040 So, I don't think so, right. I think that what 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:39.000 really matters is obviously stability of the production process and quality, 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:43.040 and uh, that's just going to take a little while, uh, 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:47.080 you know, to push through to I think, reinforce their 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:51.480 oversight on the on the line and the stability of 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:55.320 that manufacturing process. So I think that effort is ongoing 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:58.520 and Dave Calhoun's obviously going to oversee that until he leaves. 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:00.720 I think that they could have got a shot in 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:03.080 the arm here and they the markets are giving them 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:06.000 a bit of the shot in the arm already on 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:09.600 bringing in someone new that they think will do a better. 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:10.640 Job of this process. 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:13.040 I think it's key for going to bring in someone 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:17.880 who's got a good manufacturing resume. You know who's focused 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:24.919 on quality manufacturing and on a strong engineering culture. That 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.280 remains to be seen, but clearly the markets are excited 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:28.919 about just the fact that it's going to change from here. 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:30.880 George, I want to come back to you, though. The 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:34.000 first thing I thought about, I'm like, oh, Calhoun is out, 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:36.400 who's replacing him? And then I'm like, no, he's not 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:39.240 stepping down until the end of the year. It's only 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:41.640 the end of March. That's a long time. Are they 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:46.120 just kind of buying time in your educated view of 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:49.240 this industry, because they just weren't. They knew they had 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:52.320 to kind of move him along, at least publicly, but 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:54.240 they just don't have the right person yet, and that 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:56.800 we should assume that they're going to have a new 0:03:56.880 --> 0:04:00.720 CEO in sooner rather than later, because to me, as 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:03.040 an outsider an observer, you need to have a new 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:04.200 CEO in place. 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:07.960 So sorry, I think that was for me. 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:10.880 Yeah, oh I'm sorry, Yes, no worries, yees. 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:13.800 So I think the I think the board was a 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:15.680 bit flat footed here, right, And I think that's what 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:20.520 I perceive of this long wait until Calhoun leaves. You know, 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.040 I think Calhoun had a number of people on the 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:25.839 board that he was responsible for putting on there, maybe 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:27.800 a little bit of loyalty. So I think it took 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:30.800 the you know, the outsiders of the airlines to show 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:35.200 up and talk to the board frankly and so. Yeah, 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:37.680 so I think they're flat footed. I think they need 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:40.120 time to figure out who they're going to bring in 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:42.200 to replace Calhoun. I think it's going to be someone 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:45.320 outside Boeing again, someone with a resume that's strong in 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:48.520 manufacturing and a strong engineering culture. 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:49.560 There's a lot to. 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:51.039 Do this year at Boeing, so I'd hope that if 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:54.760 they find someone sooner, maybe Calhoun even goes sooner because 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.080 they're going to put a lot in place this year 0:04:57.160 --> 0:04:59.320 that's going to matter a lot in the years down 0:04:59.360 --> 0:04:59.720 the road. 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:01.360 Ry and Brook come on in on that. I guess 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:03.640 that's my point. It's like, I just thought, you got 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:05.360 to have somebody new in that spot that as long 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:08.560 as Dave Calhoun is there. I don't know, how do 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:11.960 you perceive that or isn't that part of the problem 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:13.760 that they need somebody new in charge. 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:16.360 I mean, I think it sends a signal to say 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:17.960 that he's departing at the end of the year. And 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:21.039 Boeing as a company that is in need of signals 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:23.240 right now, especially on the positive front, to show that 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:25.960 they're taking action, that they're taking this seriously, and so 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:28.400 I think this does that for them. But that was 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:30.720 my initial point of like, well, it matters who you're 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.280 going to get to replace him in terms of figuring 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:35.279 out where this company goes. And I completely agree with 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:37.640 George that it needs to be somebody with a real 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:41.400 manufacturing expertise, somebody who is going to go line by 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:43.560 line in that factory and get them to the point 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:47.640 where they can deliver quality airplanes. But I think you 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:51.039 know that this is an important moment of accountability. But 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.120 I do think it's striking that you know this is 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:56.040 coming on the heels of the criticism from customers, those 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:59.400 who determine ultimately how much money Boeing makes and what 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.400 it's marketsha looks like those are financial metrics. We've of 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:05.160 course had very public criticism of Boeing from the FAA, 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:08.080 which did an audit of its manufacturing line and has 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:10.080 called upon the company to come up with a plan 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:13.479 within ninety days to fix systemic quality control issues. We 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:16.279 did not see this announcement come right on the heels 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:18.680 of that FAA report, and so I think that is 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:21.680 very interesting and sort of underlines what the challenge is 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:24.400 here with Bowling's culture in terms of getting this company 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:28.080 to be a real engineering manufacturing enterprise. 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:28.400 Again. 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:31.360 It's also, I think notable given that in twenty twenty one, 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:34.719 the company's board actually raised the mandatory retirement age for 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:37.160 the CEO from sixty five to seventy with the idea 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:40.920 that Calhoun would stay on through a few more years. 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:44.800 Here's what Dave Calhoun told CNBC a little earlier today 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:46.880 when asked about what he wants to see in the 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:49.159 next CEO quote. I want somebody who knows how to 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:52.440 handle a big, long, long cycle business like ours. It's 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:54.520 not just the production of an airplane, it's development of 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:58.000 the next airplane. It'll be a fifty billion dollar investment. 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:02.000 I would like somebody who clearly has the experience inside 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:05.040 our industry. Brook, are there any names that are floating 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:07.640 around the space right now based on your reporting? Any 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:11.800 names come to mind of people or positions companies that 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:13.280 they would come from at this point? 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:16.440 I mean, I think that the best man for the 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:18.800 job would probably be Larry Colp. When you just look 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:21.480 at the turnaround that he's been able to engineer at GE, 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:25.520 and the type of skills that Boeing needs are very 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.440 similar to those that Larry has. He is a meticulous 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:31.560 operator and that's really you know, a big part of 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:34.640 his turnaround effort at GE is going in and improving 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:38.520 factory operations one step at a time, one small change 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:40.160 at a time that really adds up to make a 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:42.920 big difference in terms of how that company's operations are run. 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:46.440 Now Larry is on the cuss of the final piece 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:48.760 of the breakup of GE. He has had, you know, 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:50.800 a very successful track record that I don't know if 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:56.240 he is looking is his contract challenge Atvolling, but we'll 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:58.240 have to see. But he is obviously sort of the 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:00.320 name that comes up just because of how much SSS 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:02.000 he has had a GE. But you know, there's others 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:05.320 out there that I think will certainly enter the conversation. 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:07.960 Dave Gitlin is on Boeing's board. He was a former 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:12.160 executive at United Technologies, which is now known as RTX. 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:14.800 He now runs Carrier, which is an air conditioning business. 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:17.480 But he obviously has a lot of aerospace manufacturing expertise 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:18.640 in the connection to Boeing. 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:21.360 Yeah, we've talked a lot with him actually on our 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:23.800 air George, come on in on who you think might 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:27.160 be the kind of CEO, our person out there that 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:29.160 you think should maybe take over. And I do find 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:32.679 it interesting in that interview on CNBC that Dave Calhoun 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:35.199 said that he will have a say in the decision 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:38.240 on a new CEO. I wanted to start their first job, George, 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:40.640 does it make sense? I mean, you have to have 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:43.840 the former CEO of Boeing who understands this company so 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:47.520 well to help in that transition or no? Or yes? 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:51.160 So I think you would want the CEO to help 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:54.000 you in the transition. And as far as names are concerned, 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:56.800 I mean, you know, there's some people I know, some 0:08:57.240 --> 0:08:58.800 people that have been in the industry for a while. 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:01.440 Shanna hand Down at Spear comes to mind. But he 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:03.599 said he wants to get out of the business, that 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:05.520 his wife gave him a year to turn around spirit. 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:08.920 I think it's gonna take longer, but ultimately get bought. 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:11.280 And then there's Ray Connor that used to run Boeing 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:15.520 commercial airplanes. He's very smart person, but getting getting up 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:19.400 there in age in the in the high sixties. But 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:21.800 I'm sure you know, they're gonna have to cast a 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:23.680 wide up. But I'm sure there's somebody out there that's 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:25.920 got the skills of like a Larry Culp that can 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:28.080 come in and get the job done. That's the challenge 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:29.040 is finding the right person. 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:31.440 You know, did Calhoun's letter to employees, He wrote, the 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:33.200 eyes of the world are on us, and I know 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:38.680 we will come through this moment a better company. George, 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:40.480 let me start with you. What's it gonna take for 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:43.000 Boeing to come through this moment and really be a 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:46.640 better company and not have in another year or two 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:49.960 an issue. 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:54.360 So I think what's gonna take is they're gonna have 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:57.960 to change wholesale change the culture at Boeing. Right, the 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:03.480 Boeing culture became too much about spreadsheet management, managers running 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.840 you know, the different divisions, not having engineers involved and everything. 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:10.559 I think they've really got to look at their business 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:15.520 as all about building a quality product. You know, you 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:17.800 can't totally give up in the financial metrics, but you 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:20.520 have to loosen the financial metrics here because you're going 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:23.520 to have to spend more money to train people to 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:27.400 bring the next generation of workers into the aerospace world 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:30.920 and their managers. You're gonna have to spend more money 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:33.640 on oversight, which is those managers. You're going to have 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:37.280 to get into the supply chain, stabilize the supply chain, 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:40.760 not squeeze it, look to develop it as well as 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:43.240 is it for You're one team, and so it's going 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:47.000 to take a relaxation of everything's about the next penny 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:50.200 of the bottom line and more about how do we 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.400 build the infrastructure to make great airplanes for the next 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:54.200 one hundred years. 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:54.600 Brook. 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:56.640 I hear what George said just now, and I think 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:59.640 to myself, we could have had this conversation in twenty twenty, 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:04.199 post twenty eighteen and twenty nineteen Max crashes. And indeed 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.560 a lot of the folks who leveled criticism against Boeing 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:10.760 in the wake of those two accidents did mention a 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:13.040 lot of what George just mentioned. This all to say 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:15.960 that these aren't new issues at Boeing at this point, 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:19.440 and these issues weren't necessarily created under a Dave Calhoun. 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:21.959 Does that mean that they have to go external to 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:24.920 find someone brand new to come in and change the culture. 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:28.040 I don't know that they have to, but I think 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:30.440 that it would be helpful. And even with Dave Calhoun, 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:32.920 he sort of branded himself as an outsider when he 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:34.839 was brought in, but he'd been on the Boweing board 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:37.199 since two thousand and nine, so this was a company 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:41.000 that he had a lot of institutional knowledge and involvement in. 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.480 And I think there's something to be said for fresh 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:46.400 eyes at this point. To your point, you know, the 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:50.000 time to be talking about quality control issues and manufacturing 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:53.400 at Boeing was after those first two seven thirty seven 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:57.280 Max crashes. We shouldn't still be having this conversation today, 0:11:57.480 --> 0:11:59.599 and yet we are. And so that suggests that you 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:04.040 meet something more dramatic to happen, to really get to 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:06.600 the core of what is going on at Bowing and 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:08.840 how do you get back to making quality airplanes. But 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:10.559 I do want to come back to what Carol was 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:12.320 talking about from that letter, because it's not just a 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:14.800 here and now. It is a forward looking question as 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.120 well of where does Boeing go from here in the 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:19.800 competitive landscape. They have lost a lot of market share 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:22.320 relative to Airbus and they need to be thinking about 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:24.880 what comes next, what is their next airplane? How do 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:27.800 you get back to at least some level of equity 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:29.520 with Airbus on a competitive landscape. 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.160 Well, it sounds x extential almost, Brooke. I mean, are 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:35.080 we getting to that point that you know, it's just 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:37.920 too many mistakes and when you start to have carriers, 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:40.240 you know, saying we're going to go elsewhere. I mean, 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:43.280 it's about maybe the existence going forward longer term. 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:43.800 Is that right? 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:45.000 Is that how you're thinking about it? 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:47.400 Sure? I mean, I don't think there's a world when 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:50.199 where airlines want to only buy planes from Airbus. We're 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:53.280 already in a doofully and that's not very helpful as 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.480 it is, but certainly to make that more lopsided is 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:57.319 not in those airlines interests. And I think part of 0:12:57.320 --> 0:12:59.720 why they're so frustrated is because they need Boeing to 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.760 be successful. They want Boeing to be successful, not just 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:05.000 in terms of negotiating on some of these orders, but 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:07.920 also in terms of getting the planes that they've already 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:11.559 purchased and actually giving them delivered on time and without 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:13.760 any kind of defects. And so I think, you know, 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:17.280 it's also from a US perspective, Boeing as a national champion, 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:19.920 the US needs Boeing to be successful, and I think 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:22.800 that's why there's so much pressure and scrutiny right now. 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:25.079 And in the end, I mean, I think everybody's rooting 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:26.880 for Boeing to figure this out, but they are the 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:28.280 only ones that can really do that. 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:30.599 Work, right, George, you heard Brooke mention the way that 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:33.040 Airbus has pulled ahead in recent years when it comes 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:36.240 to the market. Would it be completely out of this 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:39.680 world to look at Airbus as a place where the 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:41.920 next CEO of Boeing could come from? Should we dismiss that? 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:43.480 Yeah? 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:47.679 I mean, anything can happen, but that one I think 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:50.480 would be very difficult. 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:52.120 There's a potential. 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:57.079 I guess, never say never, never say never. What last thought? Hey, 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:58.840 Brooke just got thirty seconds. I want to go back 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:01.800 to you on this out like moving the headquarters back 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:03.920 to Seattle, A right, they went to Chicago, then they 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.360 went to Virginia. That's a long, long away from where 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:07.720 the product's actually made. 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:10.360 Just quickly it is, and I think that that would 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:14.520 be a smart symbolic move. On Boeing's point, you need 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:16.640 to go back to where the airplanes are manufactured and 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.360 make sure it's clear that that's where your executives are focused. 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:21.800 All right, guys listen, thank you so much, really appreciate 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:23.800 this deep dive. Bog and shares, by the way, still 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:26.840 up about one point two percent our thanks to Bloomberg 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:29.800 News Boston bureau chief Brooks Sutherland, also writer for the 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:33.040 Bloomberg Industrial Strength newsletter, and of course our Bloomberg Intelligence 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:35.920 Senior Aerospace, Defense and Airlines analyst, George Ferguson. 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:38.040 Guys, thank you so much. 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:40.640 You know, it's interesting though, like what they talked about, 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:43.200 when you start to have airlines, you know, cutting some 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:45.240 of their flight offerings because they don't have the planes 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:48.720 that they need. That's when airlines are like enough, those 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:49.760 are the customers are boeing. 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:51.720 We're not the customers are Boeing. We're the customers of 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:53.360 the airlines. The airlines are the ones. 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:54.920 But the trickle down of it. 0:14:55.040 --> 0:15:00.600 Yeah, you're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:03.720 us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:06.240 Listen on Apple car Play and then Bright Auto with 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:12.120 a Bloomberg Business act or want us live on YouTube. 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:14.640 Well, a little bit of news. I'm sure you know 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:17.800 we've been certainly reporting about it here at Bloomberg when 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:20.440 it crossed a New York judge ruled Donald Trump's first 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:23.080 criminal trial will start April fifteenth of Manhattan, getting the 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:25.600 case back on track after a short delay that was 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:28.120 caused when thousands of pages of new evidence emerged. And 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:31.160 then also today, Donald Trump vowed to post a one 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:33.360 hundred and seventy five million dollars bond in New York 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:36.880 civil fraud lawsuit after an appeals court slashed it by 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:40.000 more than two thirds and handed him a crucial financial 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:43.720 lifeline as state authorities were preparing to start seizing his assets. 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.160 So that's kind of the latest on former President Donald 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:48.440 Trump's legal back Trump. But there's other stuff going on. 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:48.680 Yeah. 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:51.280 In the meantime, our group of very very well known 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:54.400 Wall Street and Silicon Valley folks who are either overtly 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:58.160 or quietly embracing the GOP nominee for president and the 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:02.080 prospect of returning to the political turbulence of the Trump era. 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:04.720 This story Carol by brad Stone. 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:06.760 Brad, of course, the editor of Bloomberg Business Week, the 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:09.840 author of several books, including two on Jeff Bezos, Amazon 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:12.600 on Bound, and The Everything Store. Brad joins us right 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:14.880 now from our San Francisco bureau. His story, by the way, 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:17.320 featured in the new issue of Bloomberg Business Week that's 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:20.080 out on newsstands, on the Bloomberg and at Bloomberg dot com. Brad, 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:22.920 great to have you here. Let's get to the who, 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:24.720 the what, and the why of your story, because the 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:27.880 story of the who alone reads like Who's who. It 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:30.040 feels like of Silicon Valley and also of Wall Street. 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:32.040 So tell us about who's doing this and what they're 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:32.320 up to. 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:36.360 Right, Thank you, Carol. I was calling it the revolt 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:40.120 of the winners, and this very conspicuous support among business 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:44.240 leaders in tech and primarily on Wall Street for former 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:47.200 President Trump. And as Tim described, there are kind of 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:51.080 two brands of support. There's the overt support and so 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:54.800 you've got Howard Lutnick of Canter Fitzgerald and John Poulson, 0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:02.200 the hedge fund owner holding fundraiser for Trump, Nelson Peltz 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:08.320 Disney Foyle who endorse Trump recently, and then the more 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:12.359 subtle forms of support. Ken Griffin from Citadel saying on 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:14.639 TV that Trump would be good for the capital markets, 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:18.400 and of course Elon Musk on the service formerly known 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:22.399 as Twitter almost every single day, suggesting that he's moving 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:26.520 in a right word direction and hasn't endorsed Trump, but 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:29.280 is certainly putting a lot of distance between him and 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:30.240 the current president. 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.160 And as you mentioned the piece, you know he's saying 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:35.520 Elon Musking, he hasn't endorsed and he won't donate to 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:38.280 any political candidates. But certainly a lot can happen between 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:42.240 now and November fifth, Brad. So what happened in terms 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:45.240 of this transformation for some of these folks over the 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:49.560 last four years There were quite a few after January 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:53.120 sixth who came out and distanced themselves from the former president. 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:55.600 What has happened in your view over the last four 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:58.440 years or over the last year to move people back 0:17:58.480 --> 0:17:59.800 to former President Trump? 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:00.000 Yeah? 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:00.800 No, I mean I think. 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:03.639 Look and there are plenty of business leaders who are 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:07.679 moving in the opposite direction and endorsing or supporting President Biden. 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:09.600 And maybe in a future column I'll look at that, 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:13.480 but there is there is this movement. Another great example 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:17.760 is jeff Yass by the way, from Susquehanna International, the 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:22.320 Pennsylvania billionaire who may or may not own a portion 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:24.680 of the company that has merged with Truth Social and 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:27.880 given Trump a potential lifeline. He was once a never 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:31.520 Trumper and is now certainly making some news favorable to 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:34.200 the former president. So look, I mean, I try to 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:36.720 diagnose what's going on here. I mean, I think there's 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:39.879 a couple things, you know, in the in the case 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:43.040 of jeff Yass, maybe this is very transactional. You know, 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.560 Trump has reversed his position of TikTok yas is a 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:49.480 major owner of Byte Dance. I do think there's a 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.520 sort of material concern here with some of these billionaires 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:57.080 looking at at Biden's economic and taxation policies and and 0:18:57.080 --> 0:18:59.919 and the idea that Biden raised in the State of 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:05.040 Union to instate a billionaire tax, to increase the corporate 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.600 tax rate, to roll back the higher end of some 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:12.960 of the Trump tax cuts. There's Biden's antitrust agenda. There's 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:16.000