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Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Peloton break through

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Speaker 2: What kind of a show you guys putting on here today?

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Speaker 3: You're not interested in art?

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Speaker 4: Now?

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Speaker 3: Well, look we're going to do this thing.

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Speaker 5: We're going to have a.

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Speaker 2: Conversation from Chicago. This is Film Spotting celebrating our twentieth year.

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Speaker 3: I'm Adam Kempinar and I'm Josh Larson.

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Speaker 6: Chief voted, now, will you please turn the television set on.

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Speaker 7: Mister McMurphy. The meeting was adjourn and the vote was closed.

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Speaker 3: But the vote was ten to eight. The chief, he's

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Speaker 3: got his hand up.

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Speaker 7: Look no, mister. The meeting was adjourned. The vote was

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Speaker 7: nine to nine.

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Speaker 2: Louise Fletcher's Nurse Ratchet with Jack Nicholson in One Flew

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Speaker 2: Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Milos Foreman's Best Picture winner is

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Speaker 2: fifty this year, and we've got a.

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Speaker 3: Review plus the top five Jack Nicholson scenes.

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Speaker 6: All Right, here we come for the next great pressings.

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Speaker 8: It's a long time holitay.

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Speaker 3: Ahead on film spoting.

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Speaker 9: This episode is brought to you by dead Man's Wire,

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Speaker 9: the new film from Roque Entertainment. Dead Man's Wire is

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Speaker 9: the incredible true story of the nineteen seventy seven kidnapping

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Speaker 9: that turned an aspiring entrepreneur into an outlaw folk era.

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Speaker 9: Directed by legendary filmmaker Gus Van Sant, dead Man's Wire

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Speaker 9: stars Bill Scarsguard Daker, Montgomery, Carry Always and Mahala, with

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Speaker 9: Coleman Domingo and al Pacino. Now playing in select theaters everywhere.

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Speaker 9: January sixteenth.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to film Spotting, Josh. Do you recall the first

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Speaker 2: time John Joseph Nicholson came across a TV screen or

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Speaker 2: a movie screen of yours?

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Speaker 3: Definitely a TV screen and wildly inappropriately it was the shining?

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Speaker 3: I had to be. Yeah, I've written and talked about

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Speaker 3: has seen the shining way too young.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it had to be for me as well. Later

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Speaker 2: in the show, we'll see if the shining makes the

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Speaker 2: cut for either of us. We will share our top

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Speaker 2: five Jack Nicholson scenes. Plus I'll have a few thoughts

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Speaker 2: on the new documentary Architecton, and we will play Massacre Theater.

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Speaker 2: But first One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest is fifty. Technically,

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Speaker 2: we're celebrating a little early premiered in New York City

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Speaker 2: on November nineteen, nineteen seventy five, but just a few

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Speaker 2: weeks ago, was re released in theaters for a couple

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Speaker 2: of days to commemorate the milestone. Based on Ken Kesey's

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Speaker 2: best selling nineteen sixty two novel, the film took home

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Speaker 2: the Big five at the nineteen seventy six Oscars, Best Picture,

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Speaker 2: Best Directormalosh Foreman, Best Actor Nicholson, Best Actors Louise Fletcher

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Speaker 2: in her career defining role as Nurse Ratchet, and Best

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Speaker 2: Screenplay Lawrence Hobbin and Bo Goldman.

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Speaker 3: The film opens with Nicholson's Randall Patrick McMurphy in the

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Speaker 3: director's office of the Oregon State Psychiatric Hospital. He's been

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Speaker 3: sent there to evaluate his sanity after multiple arrests for

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Speaker 3: assault and, most recently, statutory rape. The hospital director is

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Speaker 3: played by Dean R. Brooks. Who was the actual superintendent

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Speaker 3: of the Oregon State Hospital for almost thirty years, including

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Speaker 3: during the making of the film.

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Speaker 5: Let's just be frank for a minute, Randers Wooden, tell me,

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Speaker 5: do you think there's anything wrong with your mind?

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Speaker 3: Really?

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Speaker 10: On the thing, Doc, I'm a goddamn marvel and modern science.

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Speaker 9: Well, you're going to be here for a period for

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Speaker 9: us to evaluate you.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna study you.

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Speaker 11: We will make our determinations as to what we're going

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Speaker 11: to do and give you the necessary treatment.

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Speaker 10: And let me just tell you this, I'm here to

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Speaker 10: cooperate with you one hundred percent. One hundred percent. I'll

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Speaker 10: be just right down the line with you. You watch,

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Speaker 10: because I think we ought to get to the bottom

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Speaker 10: of our P.

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Speaker 3: McMurphy.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if there's any getting to the bottom

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Speaker 2: of Randall Patrick McMurphy, but let's give it a go.

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Speaker 2: This viewing of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest was

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Speaker 2: my first sense. I was a senior in college. My

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Speaker 2: roommates were mostly the same group of floormates I had

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Speaker 2: freshman year, and that first year especially, I arrived on

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Speaker 2: campus with my extensive pirated VHS collection in tow Please

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Speaker 2: don't send Me to the work farm. We watched it

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Speaker 2: on repeat. Why, I wondered as I hit play this time?

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Speaker 2: I mean, other than it being a classic movie worthy

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Speaker 2: of its five Oscar wins, I wouldn't classify any of

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Speaker 2: us as having been raised by representatives of the counterculture. Sure,

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Speaker 2: and while we were smartsh we were also immature ish,

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Speaker 2: which is to say we got the message. How could

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Speaker 2: anyone watch Cuckoo's Nest and not get the message about

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Speaker 2: the conflict between the crushing weight of societal conformity and

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Speaker 2: individual freedom? But did we get the message? And what

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Speaker 2: did we miss? I imagine we were all seduced by

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Speaker 2: the star power of R. P. McMurphy. Forget the charismatic

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Speaker 2: actor playing him, McMurphy, the character strikes me as similar

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Speaker 2: to he Fledger's The Joker, an incendiary, unpredictable agent of

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Speaker 2: chaos with one crucially distinctive trait compassion. I propose that

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Speaker 2: watching him needle and constantly challenge the command of Fletcher's

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Speaker 2: sweetly savage nurse Ratchet, one of the all time great

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Speaker 2: characternyms in literary and cinema history, likely appeals to every

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Speaker 2: generation of eighteen to twenty four year old boys encountering

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Speaker 2: our p for the first time. What else, Well, we

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Speaker 2: thought a lot of it was hilarious, mainly the interplay

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Speaker 2: between the men those group therapy sessions. More immaturity on

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Speaker 2: our part, maybe problematic, maybe, But as it turns out,

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Speaker 2: even now as a much more maturish adult, I still laugh.

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Speaker 2: For example, when Christopher Lloyd's Tabor starts harassing William Redfield's

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Speaker 2: herding about his use of the word peculiar, and William

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Speaker 2: dule Seafeldt interjects peculiar peculiar, as if harding using that

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Speaker 2: word is the most astonishingly absurd thing anyone has said ever.

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Speaker 2: I feel confident suggesting that Foreman, producer Michael Douglas, screenwriters

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Speaker 2: Hobbin and Goldman, and Nicholson, along with Kisei before them,

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Speaker 2: expected us to be aggravated and amused by many of

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Speaker 2: the antics we witness. Now. I don't have the training, Josh,

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Speaker 2: to speculate further about the psychology driving that fascination with

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Speaker 2: one flew over the Cuckoo's Nest then, but I've got

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Speaker 2: a bunch of notes detailing my appreciation for it. Now,

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Speaker 2: what about you, what's your relationship to the movie, and

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Speaker 2: did you have any agenda going into this revisit? Was

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Speaker 2: there anything specific you wanted to consider. Here's a topic

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Speaker 2: that was on my mind to engage with or dismiss.

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Speaker 2: One of the many ways our culture differs now compared

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Speaker 2: to our college years and certainly compared to the sixties

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Speaker 2: and seventies, relates to our understanding of gender and power.

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Speaker 2: I had no doubt she would still be undeniably the

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Speaker 2: movie's villain. But is it possible that Nurse Ratchet could

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Speaker 2: be a more sympathetic character viewed through a twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: five lens. Her authoritarian impulses at least somewhat justifiable, combating

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Speaker 2: McMurphy's contempt and perhaps, and I do mean perhaps toxic masculinity.

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Speaker 3: I have not seen this since college as well. I

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Speaker 3: think it really case. It might have been an assignment

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Speaker 3: for the Cinema studies course I took then. That sounds

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Speaker 3: right to me, And yeah, have not revisited it. It's

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Speaker 3: one of those that not only lodges itself in your

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Speaker 3: brain the first time. I feel like clips are shared

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Speaker 3: so often, whether they're at Oscar ceremony or other such

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Speaker 3: televised events, that you get a little dose of Cuckoo's

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Speaker 3: nest regularly over the course of the years, if you

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Speaker 3: happen to watch such things. So never really sat down

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Speaker 3: and was happy to have the occasion to do so,

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Speaker 3: did not go in with anything more than that general

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Speaker 3: curiosity of how it would hold up with the passage

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Speaker 3: of time. And interesting thing to consider in terms of

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Speaker 3: Fletcher's ratchet if she does come off not only with

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Speaker 3: the time we're in, but the ages we are, maybe

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Speaker 3: perhaps a bit more sympathetically. I wonder if you thought

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Speaker 3: about this, Adam, because of the one sequence later in

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Speaker 3: the film, after McMurphy has caused some sort of riot

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Speaker 3: once again and they're debating whether to just hip him off,

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Speaker 3: get him out of there right, and she's the one

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Speaker 3: who says something about, well, that would just be passing

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Speaker 3: our problems on to someone else. And I thought, for

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Speaker 3: one thing, I'd forgotten that scene. It's not replayed often,

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Speaker 3: and I did wonder, is this another side of her

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Speaker 3: we're starting to see? Is there a genuine desire to

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Speaker 3: help these men beginning to surface here, which we don't

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Speaker 3: see in any other scenes she's pretending there is? Those

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Speaker 3: are her words? What is her face telling us what

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Speaker 3: do all of her actions tell us? I I think

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Speaker 3: I don't believe her, and I went as a matter

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Speaker 3: of fact, Adam, I went way the other direction on

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Speaker 3: this viewing when it comes to Ratchet. Okay, you threw

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Speaker 3: it out there, and I thought, oh, maybe I missed

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Speaker 3: something that that he keyed in on. No, Adam, I

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Speaker 3: went so far the other way. Is the thing that

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Speaker 3: was different for me is not only that elemental battle

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Speaker 3: of McMurphy versus Ratchet, which yes, captivated me as a

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Speaker 3: college age as well, and I think is the basic

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Speaker 3: Those are two people, two character types. We know who

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Speaker 3: to root for, even though McMurphy clearly has his issues,

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Speaker 3: and we know where to align ourselves. Right this time,

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Speaker 3: I inflated that. I feel like the movie inflates it

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Speaker 3: to become more than McMurphy versus Ratchet. And this is

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Speaker 3: a case, a mythic case of life versus death and

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Speaker 3: McMurphy is life.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you're not just going political. It's bigger than that, No, Adam,

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Speaker 2: It's bigger.

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Speaker 3: It's elemental. Is how this movie registered to me. And

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Speaker 3: McMurphy is representing that in the way that in the

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Speaker 3: face of he's trying to be squashed out here and

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Speaker 3: is repeatedly squashed out and continues to resist. And we're

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Speaker 3: going to get to our top five Jack Nicholson scenes,

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Speaker 3: And so I'm going to dance around because I believe

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Speaker 3: we each have a pick from this film, and I

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Speaker 3: don't want to spoil them by talking about McMurphy as

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Speaker 3: this figure of life too much, except that it's the

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Speaker 3: irrepressible nature that Nicholson brings to the performance, the way

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Speaker 3: that he shares it with his fellow patients and inspires

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Speaker 3: them to choose life in small ways rather than the

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Speaker 3: death that is pervading throughout this film. And Ratchet for

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Speaker 3: me is death. It's in the performance, which is chilling.

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Speaker 3: It's a remarkable anti performance. She does not reveal anything

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Speaker 3: at all. Her eyes are drained of any spark, her

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Speaker 3: skin is sapped of any feeling. I think the only

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Speaker 3: smile we might get is when she squashes McMurphy's attempts

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Speaker 3: to put the World series on and she sees that

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Speaker 3: it's the vote is not going his way. Early on,

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Speaker 3: we get a little smile, and it's her small smile

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Speaker 3: is the embodiment of evil to me because it's not

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Speaker 3: just that she doesn't want the words schedule to change.

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Speaker 3: She wants McMurphy to fail. There is no heart for

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Speaker 3: rehabilitation here. And that is again where Murphy represents life

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Speaker 3: because his rehabilitation, which he needs. I had forgotten the

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Speaker 3: statutory rape thing. I mean, this is a nasty guy.

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Speaker 3: He needs rehabilitation, but he's not going to find it

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Speaker 3: here because Ratchet will not allow it. He's seeking life

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Speaker 3: anew maybe he doesn't even know that's what he's seeking yet,

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Speaker 3: and he's striving to survive, perhaps until he can get it.

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Speaker 3: But in the face of this death, that's all he's

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Speaker 3: going to He's going to run up against it at

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Speaker 3: some point. And you know, this brings us to the end.

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Speaker 3: I would love to talk about the ending and how

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Speaker 3: I see that being mythical as well. But yeah, I

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Speaker 3: want to throw it back to you and just hear

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Speaker 3: about this Ratchet question. Although it sounds like it sounds

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Speaker 3: like you didn't have a newfound sympathy for her either.

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Speaker 2: No, and you're right, McMurphy isn't going to find rehabilitation

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Speaker 2: with nurse. He also, I think the movie makes very clear,

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Speaker 2: isn't going to find rehabilitation in any kind of mental

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Speaker 2: institution that isn't where he belongs. He shouldn't be there

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Speaker 2: at all. I love your reading, and I agree with it.

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Speaker 2: I think the movie does take on that kind of

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Speaker 2: mythic proportion. I think it's why it's so captured the

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Speaker 2: cultural imagination. Then I think it's why it still captures

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Speaker 2: our imagination the way it does now. I do think

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Speaker 2: it's worth acknowledging that Ratchet is the only female character

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Speaker 2: of real consequence in a work, written, directed, and produced

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Speaker 2: entirely by men, and she is one of the biggest

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Speaker 2: villains in movie and probably literary history. I'm not as

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Speaker 2: familiar with its legacy there, but surely American literary history.

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Speaker 2: I imagine there had to be feminist critiques of Cuckoo's Nest,

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Speaker 2: and sure enough, a very preliminary Google search turns up

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Speaker 2: at least one reclaiming Big Nurse, a feminist critique of

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Speaker 2: Ken Kesey's portrayal of Nurse Ratchet in One Flew Over

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Speaker 2: the Cuckoo's Nest. So it's complicated, But in terms of

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Speaker 2: my experience watching Nurse Ratchet this time, not only Josh

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Speaker 2: did I not gain sympathy for her. I lost it

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Speaker 2: if that was even possible. Af I put her at

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Speaker 2: number five on the all time movie villains list. Hannibal

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Speaker 2: Lecter was number one. I don't know. Obviously, I'd be

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Speaker 2: more scared to be put in the same room with

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Speaker 2: Hannibal Lecter. But at least with Hannibal Lecter, he knows

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Speaker 2: exactly who and what he is, and you know who

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Speaker 2: and what he is. There's no pretense. Ratchet is oblivious

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Speaker 2: to her impropriety, which makes her more insidious. What is

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Speaker 2: let's just outline it and spoiler note, we're gonna do

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Speaker 2: it right here. The movie's fifty years old. We're gonna

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Speaker 2: talk about the ending of the movie. If you haven't

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Speaker 2: seen it or don't want to know what happens to

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Speaker 2: McMurphy or to Billy Bibbott, stop listening now. What's unjustifiable

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Speaker 2: and unforgive her culpability in Billy's death. I will say

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Speaker 2: this about Ratchet. I don't think she's purely a monster.

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Speaker 2: She's human. That wouldn't be very compelling drama. I think

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Speaker 2: she is upset, not just scared, when Billy kills himself,

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Speaker 2: but he makes that choice, and she knows he will

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Speaker 2: want to make that choice based on past behavior, based

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Speaker 2: on his psychology, because she relishes the opportunity, or at

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Speaker 2: least can't resist the opportunity to shame him. She doesn't

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Speaker 2: need to tell his mother, as he says, but she

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Speaker 2: is punitive. She wants to cause him agony. She sees

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Speaker 2: his act as an active disobedience, as an insult towards her.

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Speaker 2: You're talking mythic. I think we're getting biblical here as well.

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Speaker 2: She's the God and this is her little garden, and

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Speaker 2: he is now sought knowledge that she has not condoned. Perhaps,

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Speaker 2: and of course there is McMurphy's right, the severity of

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Speaker 2: the treatment slash punishment for his condition slash crime. She knows,

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Speaker 2: and we know, she knows that he's not crazy. If anything,

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Speaker 2: all of his actions at the end further prove that

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Speaker 2: he belongs in jail, not in a mental institution, and

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Speaker 2: definitely not lobotomized. But she gets what she wants. She

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Speaker 2: gets him passive, she gets him subservient, she gets his

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Speaker 2: freedom taken away forever. She wins, She beats him. That's

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Speaker 2: what she wants. She doesn't want to help him. She

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Speaker 2: wants to defeat him. And I'll also mention I'll mention

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Speaker 2: one more thing here, Josh, because it ties back to

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Speaker 2: this notion of power and gender roles, but also something

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Speaker 2: I want to get into, which is Ratchet as a

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Speaker 2: symbol of America maybe itself. And this is what I

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Speaker 2: was thinking about going into the movie specifically, And as

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Speaker 2: these scenes were starting, I just wondered if maybe you

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Speaker 2: know how much did McMurphy, Not that it justified it

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Speaker 2: anything in terms of the outcome, but how much does

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Speaker 2: he wind her up versus her being the antagonist? And

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Speaker 2: right away you notice what is every single so called

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Speaker 2: therapy session about therapy sessions that she dictates that she controls.

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Speaker 2: They're all about sex, but they're not just about sex.

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Speaker 2: More than anything, she uses sex and the men's sexual

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Speaker 2: pass as a way to humiliate them, and then she

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Speaker 2: uses that humiliation to divide them and to set them

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Speaker 2: against each other. So she's in a position of power

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Speaker 2: and she wields it not to heal them, but to

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Speaker 2: hurt them. And what's most telling is that her contempt

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Speaker 2: for McMurphy grows the more what happens. It's not just

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Speaker 2: about whatever rules of hers he's breaking it's that those men,

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Speaker 2: and this is something I certainly never picked up on

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Speaker 2: the last, you know, the twenty times I watched it

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Speaker 2: in college. It's that those men become more unified as

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Speaker 2: a group, they become happier as a group, and individually,

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Speaker 2: they're fishing, they're playing cards, they're watching the imaginary ball game,

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Speaker 2: they're playing basketball, they express themselves more, which early on

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Speaker 2: she says she wants within their group individually, scan when

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden talks Cheswick won't shut up even

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Speaker 2: harding isn't so insufferable. You could reasonably argue that they

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Speaker 2: are more on a trajectory to eventually leave the hospital,

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Speaker 2: all because of McMurphy's influence. And does she encourage it

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Speaker 2: like she should if she really cares about what she

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Speaker 2: ostensibly cares about. Of course not. She lows him. She

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Speaker 2: despises him for it because it diminishes her authority, and

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Speaker 2: because the sounder of mind they are, the more likely

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Speaker 2: they are to question her authority, which is what they do,

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Speaker 2: in which she cannot allow.

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Speaker 7: Remember, mister Skann, and we've discussed many times that time

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Speaker 7: spent and the company of others is very therapeutic. While

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Speaker 7: time spent brooding alone only increases a feeling of separation.

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Speaker 7: And you remember that, don't you.

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Speaker 3: Do You mean to say.

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Speaker 10: It's sick to want to be off by yourself.

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Speaker 12: Disratchet, mister Cheswick.

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Speaker 7: You sit down, yes, but I want to know, sit down, Chwick.

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Speaker 3: I want to give him a cigarette.

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Speaker 10: We are hardy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, He's helping them to see beyond the ward, and

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Speaker 3: that is something she can't allow because in a way,

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Speaker 3: the ward is purgatory and they're stuck here. And if

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Speaker 3: she is this, you know, minister of death as I'm proposing,

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Speaker 3: look at the choices she makes. Yes, absolutely, she knows,

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Speaker 3: not that for sure Billy will commit suicide if she

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Speaker 3: pushes those buttons. But she knows it's in play. She

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Speaker 3: absolutely knows it's in play, and so she's nudging things

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Speaker 3: that way. And McMurphy, as far as it goes with

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Speaker 3: McMurphy needling her, I think his fallibility only makes him

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Speaker 3: more of this figure of life to me, because life

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Speaker 3: isn't the same as goodness. He's no innocent. It's very

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Speaker 3: crucial to me that McMurphy is not an innocent. Life

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Speaker 3: is messy, it's full of mistakes, it's full of bad decisions,

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Speaker 3: some of which cause other people pain. But that's where

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Speaker 3: you get the opportunity for rehabilitation for life anew and

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Speaker 3: she is so opposed to that very notion she cannot

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Speaker 3: abide that notion, which is why it leads her to

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Speaker 3: and we're assuming this it happens off screen, but surely

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Speaker 3: she was in on the conversations. It leads to McMurphy's lobotomy,

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Speaker 3: and I think that is so symbolically potent as well,

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Speaker 3: because Adam this removes it from purgatory but doesn't move

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Speaker 3: him to death. He is the living dead at that point,

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Speaker 3: and this is something that's horrible that we haven't even

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Speaker 3: really encountered or thought about. But it also puts into

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Speaker 3: stark relief for me Chief's decision when it comes to

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Speaker 3: McMurphy later that night. It makes it seem like this

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Speaker 3: is something of a mercy killing because of this, not

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Speaker 3: because of the practicalities of the story, but again this

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Speaker 3: more mythic proportion, because if McMurphy's life is reduced to

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Speaker 3: a false one, right that's what he has now, then

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Speaker 3: at least Chief can give him a death that is true,

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Speaker 3: and it is something of a relief. So even that ending,

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Speaker 3: which strikes this very strange, difficult note of tragedy and

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Speaker 3: in Chief's escape, release and some form of victory, I

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Speaker 3: think it resonates with us because it is working on

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Speaker 3: these levels, these character levels, and then all these grander

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Speaker 3: ideas that we're talking about.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, doesn't Chief even say right before he does it,

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Speaker 2: something like you're going where I'm going or you're going

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Speaker 2: with me. He doesn't mean it literally. He means it

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Speaker 2: symbolically or metaphysically. He is going. He is sending McMurphy

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Speaker 2: off with him outside these walls. He is freeing him. Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: I do want to say I'm not going to necessarily

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Speaker 2: say in her defense, but I think it is clear

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Speaker 2: that she doesn't want Billy to kill himself. And we

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Speaker 2: know that because she does say, nurse put Billy in

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Speaker 2: the office, and she sends the orderly to stay with

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Speaker 2: him until the doctor arrives. She knows he will try

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Speaker 2: to kill himself, and she sends the orderly to be

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Speaker 2: there with him so that he doesn't try to take

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Speaker 2: his life. It's more about knowing he'll try to do it,

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Speaker 2: and she wants him to feel the agony.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, which speaks more to the purgatory idea too, right,

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Speaker 3: It is like keeping him in this space under her control.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and maybe this speaks a little bit, Josh to

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Speaker 2: your point about which I absolutely agree with about not

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Speaker 2: only being the case but almost needing to be the

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Speaker 2: case that McMurphy is flawed. McMurphy is culpable too, because

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Speaker 2: something I didn't notice until this viewing. It's Washington. I

386
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Speaker 2: believe the orderly's name is that she sends to sit

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Speaker 2: with Billy. Washington is the one who gets called to

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Speaker 2: come get McMurphy when McMurphy punches the other orderly. It's

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Speaker 2: because of McMurphy that Washington leaves Billy and Bill alone. Yeah.

390
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Speaker 3: And McMurphy is the one who, you know, not only

391
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Speaker 3: through the party that was the inciting incident, but pushed

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Speaker 3: Billy into the room with the friend that the woman

393
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Speaker 3: that he has brought, And so there's culpability to go around. Yeah. Absolutely.

394
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Speaker 2: And at the same time, of course, he did this

395
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Speaker 2: tremendously sacrificial thing, truly a gesture of friendship for Billy.

396
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Speaker 2: So it's it's complex, right, going back to Fletcher and

397
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Speaker 2: her performance, and it really is. I think an incredible performance.

398
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Speaker 2: I called her sweetly savage. What you recognize about her

399
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Speaker 2: right away is that civility, the coolness, and the calmness.

400
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Speaker 3: She's just a little but that sort of calmness.

401
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Speaker 2: Yes, she's just a little bit too soothing as opposed

402
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Speaker 2: to actually being comforting, which is I think what makes

403
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Speaker 2: it remarkable. And I was thinking about that, that civility.

404
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Speaker 2: There's something genteel about it, and you think about gentility like, well,

405
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Speaker 2: there's elegance to it, or there's there's grace and you know,

406
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Speaker 2: free from vulgarity or rudeness. Okay, that's definitely what she's

407
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Speaker 2: striving for. But there's another definition of genteel, which is

408
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Speaker 2: marked by false delicacy, prudery, or affectation. And I think

409
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Speaker 2: it's the falseness, of course that we're that we're tapping into.

410
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Speaker 2: That gentility belies her awfulness. No, she I won't be

411
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Speaker 2: outwardly vulgar or rude, but she will do horrible things

412
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Speaker 2: to maintain her power. The way she maintains her power

413
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Speaker 2: is to control her charges, and sometimes that means McMurphy

414
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 2: of course nails her. He is so perceptive. He says,

415
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Speaker 2: she's dishonest. She says she likes a rigged game, and

416
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Speaker 2: that's absolutely the case. And Josh, I was looking up

417
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Speaker 2: something and I found talk about an insight into a

418
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Speaker 2: character that nails this so potently. Fletcher, in an interview

419
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Speaker 2: with Vanity Fair sometime around when the movie came out

420
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Speaker 2: or just shortly after, talked about They asked her about

421
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Speaker 2: how she approached the character and the performance. And it's

422
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Speaker 2: from the seventies. But this is a July twenty eighteen

423
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Speaker 2: article in Vanity Fair that references this interview, and you

424
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Speaker 2: know it's ironic. I compared McMurphy to the Joker. The

425
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Speaker 2: writer compares Ratchet accurately to the Joker and other all

426
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 2: time great villains like Hannibal Lecter and Darth Vader. And

427
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 2: the interview section that this writer references, it's Fletcher and

428
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 2: also Foreman. They landed Milosh forman, They landed on the

429
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 2: perfect insight into the character, and he grew up or

430
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 2: experienced an oppressive communist regime. This is what the article

431
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 2: says about Fletcher's insight. She thought back to her childhood

432
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 2: in Alabama and the quote paternalistic way that people treat

433
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 2: other people there. Moving to California had opened her eyes

434
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 2: to how warp things had been back home. Quote. White

435
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 2: people actually felt that the life they were creating was

436
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 2: good for black people. She says, a dynamic she recognized

437
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 2: in Nurse Ratchet in her charges. Quote they're in this ward.

438
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 2: She's looking out for them, and they have to act

439
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 2: like they're happy to get this medication or listen to

440
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 2: this music and make her feel good about the way

441
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 2: she is unquote.

442
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's how it's a That's how you have

443
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 3: to play a character like that, as a complicated human

444
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 3: with a flawed respect on the world.

445
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 2: I think she's evil at all.

446
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 3: You know, you can't play her as a symbol, or

447
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 3: none of this would work. It's working on both levels

448
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 3: because the performance is so good. And I'm glad you

449
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 3: brought up the gender thing because I do think it's

450
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 3: worth considering. We'll have to track down that piece. I

451
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 3: would love to read it through a feminist lens. I

452
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 3: do think, again, seeing it more symbolically, that this role

453
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 3: could have been played by either a man or a

454
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 3: woman the same way. And maybe I'm missing, you know,

455
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,360
Speaker 3: something in the dynamics there because I am a man,

456
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 3: But it really felt like a. It wasn't envisioned in

457
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 3: a gendered way the role. Now, of course Fletcher is

458
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 3: going to bring that to the performance. But but yeah,

459
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 3: I am interested in seeing someone give it that reading,

460
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 3: because you're right, she is she is the only woman.

461
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 3: She's dealing with power dynamics herself. She has superiors, right,

462
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 3: all men, the doctors in the room that she meets with.

463
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 3: She's the only one in that room. So certainly things

464
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,719
Speaker 3: like that are in play. I want to go back

465
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 3: to something else you said as you were setting things

466
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 3: up Adam too, which is related to the other people

467
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 3: on staff and the other people in the ward. You

468
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 3: were touching on the supporting cast, these other patients, and

469
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 3: I was I think relieved personally to see that. I think,

470
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 3: to my mind those depictions of the patients held up.

471
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 3: And of course have not had experience working out a

472
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 3: ward like this, and we'll see to anyone who has,

473
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 3: or anyone who knows people struggling with this type of

474
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 3: mental illness, and might find some of these performances patronizing.

475
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 3: And each one is different, so they all work on

476
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 3: different registers. The ones that I found worked really well.

477
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 3: You mentioned Christopher Lloyd and also Danny DeVito in the

478
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 3: way they seemed very immersed in the background of each scene,

479
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 3: not looking to do something you know, quote unquote crazy

480
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 3: to mark their care character, but just living as these

481
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:09,239
Speaker 3: individual men. DeVito's DeVito has that squinting smile, but to

482
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 3: me it was always being used as a form of

483
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 3: self defense, right. This was kind of like something he

484
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 3: was putting up in front of himself so that he

485
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 3: wasn't going to get caught up in what else was

486
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 3: going on in the war. And Lloyd just has this

487
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 3: He's thrumming with this coiled energy, but not in a

488
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 3: way that detracts from what else is happening in the scene.

489
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 3: I think they're both good. And then Will Samson as Chief,

490
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 3: who already mentioned Chief Bromden, were introduced to this character

491
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 3: and told that he's deaf and dumb, and later we

492
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 3: reveal that's not the case, and you realize what a

493
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 3: sly human being. This is what a sly performance. This

494
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 3: is how funny it gets. Once Chief reveals to McMurphy

495
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 3: that he can talk, he's got a great sense of humor,

496
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 3: and then gets that shattering midnight monologue about his own

497
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 3: father talking to McMurphy about what is the phrase he

498
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 3: uses working on you? They're working on you, and I

499
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 3: saw that happen to my father. He admits his father

500
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 3: was a troubled man too, ran into ran into trouble

501
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 3: with the law, and how that was used against him

502
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 3: unjustly and ruined his father's life.

503
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 5: My papa is really big. He did lucky, he pleased.

504
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 5: That's why everybody worked on him. The last time I

505
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 5: seen my father, he's blind, the saters from drinking, and

506
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 5: every time he put the bottle to his mouth, he

507
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 5: don't suck out of it. It sucks out of him

508
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 5: until his shrink soup wrinkling yell. Even the dogs don't

509
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 5: know him telling. I'm not saying they killed him. They

510
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 5: just worked on him the way they're working on you.

511
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 3: That's the speech is incredible. I had forgotten about that

512
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 3: and from will Samson and overall, I just found this

513
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,239
Speaker 3: to be a very credible portrait of the community in

514
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 3: the ward. They were fully realized individuals rather than oversized children.

515
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 2: Yes, and I'm glad you brought that up too, because,

516
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 2: as I referenced in the setup there and invoking the

517
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 2: word problematic, of course, I think back to us as

518
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 2: college freshmen, and were we laughing at them? And honestly, Josh,

519
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 2: maybe I'm letting us off the hook too easily, just

520
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 2: like I was laughing. Now, No, I don't think we were.

521
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 2: I think we were laughing with them. I think we

522
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 2: were invested in them as characters. I think we understood

523
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 2: even then inherently that Ratchet was pitting them against each

524
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:50,479
Speaker 2: other and watching the way those dynamics developed, and watching

525
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 2: the way, for example, I mentioned Cheswick, watching the way

526
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 2: he initially tries to talk and he can't even get

527
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 2: a word out of his mouth, he can only make sounds,

528
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 2: and then at the end, by the end he is

529
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 2: saying he's demanding I want my cigarettes. Wear are cigarettes?

530
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 2: That there's humor in that, while at the same time

531
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 2: you recognize the absolute seriousness in those demands. So I

532
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 2: do feel as if the writing and the portrayal of

533
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 2: those characters, it feels it feels authentic to me, and

534
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 2: never as if we're exploiting the conditions of those characters.

535
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 3: Now side lastic as Chesswick, I would agree, another great performance.

536
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 2: We're going to talk a lot about Nicholson, and yes

537
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 2: we do spoilers. Both have a scene from this movie.

538
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 2: That said, I still think we have to acknowledge here

539
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 2: what makes this performance so special or talk about it

540
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 2: a little bit.

541
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 3: For sure.

542
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 2: One thing I noticed this time here again this is

543
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 2: the beauty of these sacred cows, especially when you haven't

544
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 2: seen the movie in so long, is I had never

545
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 2: fully recognized the extent to which this is a dual performance.

546
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 2: This is Jack Nicholson playing Randall playing and I'm gonna

547
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 2: put this in air quotes, but this is his Randal

548
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 2: McMurphy's version of playing crazy Randall. And I think this

549
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 2: is just having a clearer eyed sense of the characters

550
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 2: and the story itself, paying closer attention. But there is

551
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 2: a clear line that Nicholson draws between Randall and crazy Randall.

552
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 2: I thought in my mind in my recollection it was

553
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 2: more blurred. I always understood, and to go back to

554
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 2: that phrase, I always understood that Randal was being worked on,

555
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 2: like Chief says that this wasn't fair, that he really

556
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: shouldn't be here. But I guess when doctor Spivey is

557
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 2: asking him, point Blake, are you trying to fool us?

558
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 2: Or are you really crazy? And Randall's coy about it,

559
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 2: I thought there was more ambiguity there. I thought that

560
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 2: while he didn't belong here, he wasn't one hundred percent

561
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 2: acting either. His behavior was enough outside the realm of

562
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 2: what society deemed to be normal that we just really

563
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 2: weren't sure about him, and seeing it fresh and here

564
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 2: again maybe just paying closer attention. I don't really think

565
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 2: there's any ambiguity. There's the entire scene, first of all,

566
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 2: where all hell Breaksluice finally largely incided by mc murphy

567
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 2: learning that acting crazy now has real consequences, that it

568
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,399
Speaker 2: isn't just a way of getting out of jail, which

569
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 2: this whole time he has thought. He thinks jail is worse,

570
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 2: and so acting crazy allows him to have a vacation

571
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 2: basically here. But now he learns that at least jail

572
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 2: has a set end date and this doesn't. He could

573
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 2: get stuck here for as long as they deem necessary,

574
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 2: and he's really pissed off about it. And that randal

575
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 2: the Nicholson gives us in that group scene and in

576
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:52,240
Speaker 2: every scene after, that's a very different McMurphy, not entirely different,

577
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 2: but it is a different randal than the one we've

578
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 2: seen up to that point. At least in the scenes

579
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 2: where Ratchet or someone in authority is present, go back

580
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 2: and wat much. For example, Randall on the boat, that's

581
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 2: a different Randal than the Randal we see when he's

582
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 2: interacting with Nurse Ratchet, where he's really trying to get

583
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 2: her to see him in a different light, where he's

584
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 2: trying to maintain a certain type of performance. That group

585
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 2: scene where the curtain has fallen right, the manic energy

586
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 2: is dissipated. The devilish Jack Grin has disappeared. He's no

587
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 2: longer larger than life. We see a despondent, disappointed, frustrated,

588
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 2: tired Randal. He's just a more human character. I always

589
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 2: saw him as the same Randal because it seems like

590
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 2: it's the same size Jack performance. He gets really angry,

591
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 2: he breaks the glass, he grabs the cigarettes. But it

592
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 2: is not at all. And I want to say one

593
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 2: more thing, Josh. It's fascinating too, because it speaks to

594
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 2: how strong I think the story and the writing are

595
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:56,280
Speaker 2: the entire time. He's crazy Randal. He's willfully fighting with Ratchet.

596
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 2: He's trying to break her down. He's trying to stay there,

597
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 2: as I said, and not go back to jail. They

598
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 2: are anti thedical forces, and I again agree with the

599
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 2: way you're pitting them as antithetical forces. They're always in

600
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 2: opposition to each other, and they still are those anti

601
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 2: thedical forces ultimately at the end. But what's the irony

602
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 2: of this scene, the scene where not only does everything

603
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 2: really get extreme, but the real Randal finally comes out

604
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 2: in front of the group. He and Nurse Ratchet are actually,

605
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 2: for once on the same side of a confrontation Cheswick

606
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 2: and everyone is attacking her about to randall their petty

607
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 2: individual concerns. All she wants them to do is shut

608
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 2: up and move on, and she's getting increasingly agitated. All

609
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 2: he wants them to do is shut up and move on,

610
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 2: and he's getting increasingly agitated. When he breaks the glass

611
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 2: and gets the cigarettes, he's defying her rules. That's another

612
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 2: act of disobedience, but he's not doing.

613
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 13: It to defy her. He's doing it to accomplish the

614
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 13: same thing that she wants, which is shutting to ches

615
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 13: Wick up. He's actually trying to help her. You could

616
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 13: almost read it, almost read it like the real Randall

617
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 13: and Ratchet could find some common ground with each other,

618
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 13: that there's the potential for it. They both do want

619
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 13: to be in control of group situations, right, But even

620
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 13: when they're on the same side of something here, they're

621
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 13: still in opposition to each other.

622
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're back to that clip getting to the bottom

623
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 3: of McMurphy, which, right, as you said, is probably not possible.

624
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 3: He's definitely shifting personas here. And by he I mean McMurphy.

625
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 3: I think you're right about that, and we see it.

626
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 3: I mean, how does he arrive on the scene when

627
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 3: they bring him into the hospital. He's he's dancing and

628
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 3: gives one of the guyards a kiss on the cheek. Right,

629
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 3: he's playing into the quote unquote looney bin persona. That's

630
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 3: it that he thinks they're expecting. I think I probably though,

631
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 3: see it less of a flip of the switch for

632
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 3: McMurphy or of a continuum and I and it's a

633
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 3: really tricky question too, because it's it's almost like there

634
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,280
Speaker 3: are moments where he's sober, and there's moments where he's tipsy,

635
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 3: and there's moments where he's blind drunk, and there's moments

636
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 3: where he's passed out. And in terms of the question

637
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 3: of society, yes, he doesn't belong here, does he belong

638
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 3: in jail. I mean, yes, if he's been convicted of

639
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 3: some of these awful crimes he's been accused of. Yeah,

640
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 3: But to go back to the idea of rehabilitation, I

641
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 3: don't know if either are going to serve him as

642
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 3: a human being. And this is where we're you know,

643
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 3: it becomes maybe particularly a film of the era, as

644
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 3: you know, the institutions like this were being reevaluated, and

645
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 3: what was considered polite and respectable in society is being questioned.

646
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 3: Authority is being questioned. This is where the role is

647
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 3: so perfect for Nicholson and who he was in the

648
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 3: seventies because when you think about he had already established

649
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 3: himself with this sort of iconoclastic persona with five easy

650
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 3: pieces the last detail, So we know this is something

651
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:16,879
Speaker 3: Nicholson can do really well. But I do think it's

652
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 3: if not better performance, No, I think it probably is

653
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 3: a better performance than both of those. It's because it

654
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 3: has these layers you're talking about, of shifting who he

655
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 3: wants to be for people in different scenes. But I

656
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 3: especially like the delicacy that Nicholson brings. You've already touched

657
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 3: on it in some of the scenes. You've talked about,

658
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 3: I want to go back to that entrance exam he has,

659
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 3: and here he is still he's being particularly cagy. He's

660
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,760
Speaker 3: like he's sobering up and then getting a little tipsy

661
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 3: again in the same moment right with the director. But

662
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 3: watch the face Nicholson's face when the director just says

663
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 3: out loud, doesn't really mean anything about it. He's reading

664
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 3: biographical details and he just says his age, which I

665
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 3: think he says thirty eight, and you'll see on McMurphy's

666
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 3: face this little flicker of failure, like I'm thirty eight,

667
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 3: I'm still doing this. At least that's how I read it.

668
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 3: He doesn't admit anything. But then we also touched on

669
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 3: this Adam about his how much power he has, and

670
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 3: that moment you talked about when he realizes he can't

671
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 3: just leave at any time. He's asked something about, you know,

672
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 3: are you are you going to work with us or

673
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 3: help us, help you, something like that, and he kind

674
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 3: of mutters off to the side, it ain't up to me.

675
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 3: It ain't up to me. He knows a little bit already,

676
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 3: if not that this hospital is against him, but that

677
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:47,720
Speaker 3: society has already respectable society. Institutional society has aligned itself

678
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 3: against him and he doesn't have a place within it anywhere.

679
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 3: I just think what's remarkable about Nicholson here is, you know,

680
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 3: he's even when he's being his most impertinent as McMurphy,

681
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 3: you get sense that he's a cocky, cornered animal. He's

682
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 3: always still the cornered animal.

683
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, and to be able to do.

684
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 3: Both of those things at once is a delicacy that

685
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 3: maybe some of those earlier parts where he was really

686
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 3: leaning into the bravado, you don't see quite as much

687
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,959
Speaker 3: different parts, different person people he's playing, so that makes sense.

688
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 3: But here I do love that you get both of

689
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:21,720
Speaker 3: those elements and so many of these scenes.

690
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 2: Eventually we're going to get to another Pantheon Project conversation

691
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 2: about cool Hand Luke, and I think there are certain

692
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 2: anti heroes and they both qualify McMurphy and cool Hand Luke.

693
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,800
Speaker 2: There are certain anti heroes who fall into that category

694
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 2: Josh of mythic misfits, where that's exactly what they are.

695
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 2: We aren't meant to get to the bottom of them.

696
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 2: There isn't a getting to the bottom of them. They

697
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,240
Speaker 2: are symbolic representatives. They are meant to draw out these

698
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 2: types of mythical conflicts. We are supposed to confront them

699
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 2: through them. McMurphy doesn't belong there, but as you said,

700
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,280
Speaker 2: he probably doesn't belong in jail that he doesn't belong

701
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 2: in society either. What do we do with him? What

702
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 2: do you do with someone like Luke who doesn't belong

703
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 2: in the jail that he's in, but he also doesn't

704
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 2: want to and doesn't belong in the society that he's in.

705
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 2: That's the beauty of this type of art.

706
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:16,359
Speaker 7: Man.

707
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 3: I have been thinking about Newman quite a bit lately

708
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 3: in this context because watching other Nicholson films, having recently

709
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 3: done our Top five Gene Hackman scenes, you know, also

710
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 3: known for playing anti heroes of a type, and I

711
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 3: did just see Hud again at doc Films here at

712
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 3: University of Chicago, and that is a great conversation to

713
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 3: have at some point of these sort of seventies, late

714
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 3: sixties era anti hero figures that the likes of Newman

715
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 3: and Nicholson and Hackman specialized in. We'll probably get to

716
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 3: some of that in our Top five.

717
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 2: One flow over The Cuckoo's Nest is currently available VOD

718
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 2: and you know, if Nurse Ratchet won't let you watch it,

719
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 2: you can just act out the whole thing for yourself.

720
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 2: If you agree or disagree with anything we had to say,

721
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 2: or if you just have comments about the film, we'd

722
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 2: love to hear them feedback at filmspotting.

723
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 11: Dot net the great Mickey mail.

724
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 2: Now, because the Pitch Metal.

725
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 3: Swings, listening is the number one thing you could do

726
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 3: to support an independently produced show like ours, a couple

727
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 3: more things you can do. Take a minute to give

728
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 3: us a rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

729
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 3: Doesn't matter if you're brand new or have been around

730
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 3: for twenty years. Every new review helps us reach new listeners. Now,

731
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 3: this is usually the spot where we mentioned the other

732
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,359
Speaker 3: thing you can do to help us out. That's join

733
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 3: the Film Spotting Family, and then we'll feature a member

734
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 3: of the Film Spotting Family instead. This time, we're going

735
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 3: to share a couple of voice messages that listeners submitted

736
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,879
Speaker 3: ahead of Film Spotting Fest back in March. We're going

737
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 3: to highlight some more of these over the course of

738
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 3: our twentieth anniversary year. We do offer few prompts for

739
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 3: these voicemails, asking folks to share a favorite show memory,

740
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,760
Speaker 3: or something they appreciate about the show. They could really

741
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 3: say whatever they wanted, though, So here's what we got

742
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 3: from a couple of longtime listeners.

743
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 12: Hey, Film Spotting, it's Trip Burton from Chicago Land. I've

744
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 12: been listening since two thousand and five, the full twenty years.

745
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 12: It was the first podcast I ever discovered, and the

746
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 12: thing that I value most about Film Spotting from day

747
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 12: one is the listener involvement in the show. From the

748
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 12: moment I listened to the show the first time. It

749
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 12: was about not only reviews and top five lists, but

750
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:44,399
Speaker 12: it was about shouting out listeners and listener feedback and

751
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 12: massacre theater and giving nicknames to listeners and making them

752
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 12: into celebrities. I remember the first time I ever had

753
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,839
Speaker 12: something that I sent in read on the show. I

754
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 12: remember when my son's picture in his film spotting Onesie

755
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 12: was on your website. I remember the first live event

756
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 12: that I went to where I actually got to talk

757
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 12: to Adam and talked to Maddie ballgame, and I've sat

758
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 12: down at events and I've talked to all of you,

759
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 12: and then in twenty twenty, the world shuts down and

760
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 12: you bring us all together on zoom In, trivia Spotting

761
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 12: and other events. Trivia Spotting and film Spotting have given

762
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 12: me some of the best friends that I have right now.

763
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 12: It has given me a community, and you guys have

764
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 12: shared all of that with us and made us feel

765
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 12: like integral parts of the show. So there's a reason

766
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,320
Speaker 12: I'm still listening twenty years on, and there's a reason

767
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 12: that I'll still be listening when we celebrate Film Spotting forty.

768
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 12: So congratulations, guys, I'm so excited to be celebrating with you.

769
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 3: Thank you. Hi.

770
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 8: I'm Lisa Curuss from air Mass and we wanted to

771
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 8: share our first time that we got to meet the

772
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 8: Film Spotting group. Of to me Josh, who was of

773
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,879
Speaker 8: course great to talk to him, talked to Mett Sam,

774
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,760
Speaker 8: we got to giggle about Josh's pronunciation of Bill Ricca

775
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 8: as Belica or something. And then we got to meet

776
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 8: the very cool Michael.

777
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,800
Speaker 3: Phillips, who propably told us, no, you're not in Chicago

778
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 3: just for film spotting. There's so many other things you

779
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 3: can see now, You're not here just for that.

780
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 8: It was really cool. And then we met Adam and

781
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 8: that was so cool until he told me that I

782
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 8: was possibly the one of the people that traveled the

783
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,879
Speaker 8: furthest to get there, and therefore I might be getting

784
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 8: up on stage do you mask her theater? I was

785
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 8: very relieved when that bit was cut, and I'm so

786
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 8: relieved that you guys are so famous now I never

787
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 8: have to worry about going through that again. Congratulations, Thank you.

788
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 2: Wonderful to hear from Trip and from Lisa and Chris, who,

789
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 2: as you heard, we have had many encounters with over

790
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 2: the years, in person and also virtual, and it was

791
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 2: just one of those serendipitous things where when I picked

792
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 2: these two voicemails or these two bits of audio to feature,

793
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 2: I just kind of randomly put them together. I didn't

794
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 2: realize that they were both going to be about the

795
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 2: community and that communal aspect of film spotting. But it

796
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 2: really is maybe the best thing about this show and

797
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 2: doing it over twenty years, and it does go back,

798
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:22,280
Speaker 2: Josh to something that just was organic to what Sam

799
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 2: and I started and continued with Maddie and continued with you.

800
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 2: It wasn't something that was a strategy, but it just happened,

801
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 2: and I'm glad it did, and I'm glad that it continues,

802
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 2: and we think Trip and Lisa and Chris for sharing

803
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 2: such wonderful thoughts.

804
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,319
Speaker 3: And proof of that is just hearing those voices, even

805
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 3: just seeing their names. You know, I can picture their

806
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 3: faces because I've had the opportunity to meet them online

807
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 3: or yeah, even in person. So yeah, it's really good stuff.

808
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 2: I think we have two more of those segments that

809
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 2: will feature over the next month or so. Thanks again

810
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 2: to Trip and Lisa and Chris. In addition to keeping

811
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 2: us doing what we're doing, your support comes with perks.

812
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 2: You get to listen early in ad free, you get

813
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 2: our weekly newsletter, you get exclusive opportunities like being part

814
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 2: of the film Spotting Family Discord, and you get monthly

815
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 2: bonus shows. Back in June, you heard us wax on

816
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 2: about our favorite performances of the year so far. Just

817
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 2: earlier today, as we're recording this, we talked about Burn

818
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 2: after reading with producer Sam van Holgren a little. We

819
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 2: were wrong once. I was wrong once, and I might

820
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 2: have been wrong twice.

821
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 3: Maybe I also am pretty sure. Yeah. We just finished

822
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 3: up about an hour ago. Sam's probably halfway through Burn

823
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 3: after reading right now. I think he just wanted to

824
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 3: put it on and watch it straight through again. He

825
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:40,799
Speaker 3: loves it so.

826
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 2: Much, assures it, he adores it, so he definitely wasn't

827
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:45,760
Speaker 2: wrong about it. For all, you burn after reading fans

828
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 2: and that will be appearing in your film Spotting Family

829
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 2: feeds very soon. If you would like to learn more

830
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 2: about the film Spotting Family, you can do so at

831
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 2: Filmspotting Family dot com.

832
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 5: As tex the wait to think about how we live

833
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 5: when winter signs something winter siense and behavior for people.

834
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 3: That's from the new doc Architecton from director Victor Kosakovski.

835
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 3: It opens this weekend in limited release. Kosakowski's previous film,

836
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one's Gunda, was a close study of farm animals,

837
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:25,399
Speaker 3: including the mother pig of the title. I really went

838
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 3: for Gunda. I think I called it Charlotte's web By

839
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 3: way of slow Cinema, something like that. It's worth checking out.

840
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 3: His latest is more expansive. It's a meditation on and

841
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 3: I'll quote the plot description here, the material that makes

842
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:44,879
Speaker 3: up our habitat concrete and its ancestor stone. Okay, if

843
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 3: that's not grabbing you, how about this? A review in

844
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 3: Variety apparently calls it quote dazzling epic scale filmmaking. What

845
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:55,399
Speaker 3: say you, Adam, you have had a chance to see

846
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:56,479
Speaker 3: this well.

847
00:49:56,520 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 2: By any technical objective definition, it is epic scale filmmaking

848
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 2: in the same realm as Godfrey Reggio's Koyana Scatzi. I

849
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 2: like to use the word plot there as if there's

850
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 2: a plot, it's it's an abstract documentary. It's comprised entirely

851
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 2: or almost entirely of shots of nature. There's no talking heads,

852
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 2: there's almost no context. There's sort of a character. I'll

853
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 2: get into that very minimal dialogue. You almost wish the

854
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 2: one conversation about architecture that happens in the film would

855
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 2: have been put at the beginning instead of the end,

856
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 2: just to provide some intellectual framing. I would say, if

857
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 2: you are at all interested in architecture, obviously this documentary

858
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 2: may appeal to you. But I'd add that if you

859
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 2: were someone who watched The Brutalist and found the designs

860
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 2: and the conversations and conflicts surrounding design interesting, then this

861
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 2: documentary might appeal to you as well. Because, of course,

862
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 2: Brutalist architects predominantly used concrete for a host of reasons.

863
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 2: You may recall some of this coming up in that film,

864
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 2: right affordability, functionality, the monolithic, imposing style and more. And

865
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 2: architecton is at its core, as you heard Josh, kind

866
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 2: of about concrete. More specifically, Architecton is kind of about

867
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 2: how much concrete sucks. It's very anti concrete. So there's

868
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 2: a nice pro and con if you will, with the

869
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:28,760
Speaker 2: brutalist that you might be drawn to. The imagery could

870
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 2: be enough of a draw too. That epic scale filmmaking.

871
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:36,399
Speaker 2: There are many sequences you could single out all Note two.

872
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:40,240
Speaker 2: There's a scene where these rocks, you know, the stone,

873
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,280
Speaker 2: you really see the entire process of concrete being made

874
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 2: coming from. And it's not only that, but you do,

875
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 2: over the course of the film see that happen, stones

876
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 2: being broken down, transported, the heating process, all of it.

877
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 2: You see these rocks, the smaller rocks, on a conveyor

878
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 2: belt and where the camera, the way the cameras position,

879
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 2: and the way the conveyor is moving, the rocks are jiggling,

880
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 2: almost like they're bubbling or like they're alive, and it's

881
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:12,399
Speaker 2: just a way of seeing rocks like you've never seen

882
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 2: them before. There's also drone footage of train cars loaded

883
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 2: with stones and they're whisking across a desert that honestly

884
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:24,359
Speaker 2: rivals the majesty of anything in Lawrence of Arabia. It's

885
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 2: stunning If none of that immediately grabs you. You want

886
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 2: something a little bit more intellectually challenging to grab onto.

887
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 2: I'll offer this, and I'll confess, in twenty years of

888
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:35,840
Speaker 2: doing this show, I think I can count the number

889
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:39,760
Speaker 2: of times I've referenced the press notes on one hand,

890
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 2: maybe two, And those were almost all interview situations, not

891
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 2: review situations. And I'm not suggesting a critic shouldn't reference them.

892
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 2: That's what they're there for. It's just not usually part

893
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 2: of my process. But this is a case where I

894
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 2: did feel like I needed some additional context to be

895
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 2: fully confident in what I was seeing or what I

896
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 2: thought I was seeing. Some of the footage is from

897
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 2: the part of Turkey where a seven point eight magnitude

898
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:05,319
Speaker 2: earthquake hit in twenty twenty three, and in the press notes,

899
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 2: Kosakovsky says, in Turkey, we filmed in two areas very

900
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 2: close to each other, in the earthquake zone, where everything

901
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:14,319
Speaker 2: made from concrete was destroyed, but four thousand year old

902
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 2: buildings made from stone remain in place. Civilizations became less

903
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 2: durable once we started building with metal and cement. With

904
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 2: this jexposition, the movie wants us to contemplate how it

905
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 2: is that we clearly know how to make beautiful, enduring structures,

906
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 2: and Kosakotsky showcases many other examples as well, yet all

907
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 2: too often we continue to make ugly, disposable structures. For

908
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:39,800
Speaker 2: all our supposed sophistication and technology, why do we regress

909
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 2: not progress? I said there was sort of a character,

910
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 2: So I like that question. I like thinking about that provocation.

911
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 2: I said, there was sort of a character. The only

912
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 2: architect we meet is an Italian name Michelle de Lucci,

913
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:55,800
Speaker 2: and that's because when Kosakotski began his research for the film,

914
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 2: he reached out to twenty of the most famous architects

915
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 2: in the world and he asked them two qu questions,

916
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 2: why did you become an architect? And what should be

917
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 2: the dominant focus of the modern city? And he explains that,

918
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,719
Speaker 2: you know, back in the olden times, right in western civilization,

919
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 2: especially in Europe, but also in other parts of the world,

920
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 2: of course, what was the focus of civilization? It was religion,

921
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 2: so everything was built around cathedrals. Well, religion is no

922
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 2: longer the focus of civilization and these cities. So he

923
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 2: asked them what should it be now? And some proposed

924
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 2: schools or libraries, or even shopping malls. I'd love to

925
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 2: hear from those who proposed shopping malls, And according to Kosakovski,

926
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 2: he said, only one offered a clear cut and universal idea,

927
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:52,360
Speaker 2: and it was Deluchi and his grand idea. This is

928
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 2: from the press notes. Instead of a cathedral or a

929
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 2: shopping mall, he was thinking about open space, empty space,

930
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 2: a circle where man cannot enter. Never. It should be

931
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 2: in the center of our cities, in order to remind

932
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 2: us that nature is at the center of our existence.

933
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 2: So he even acknowledges that other people talked about it

934
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 2: being sustainable and there should be green aspects to it,

935
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,280
Speaker 2: but they were all still talking about concrete and metal,

936
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 2: and only Deluci was like, no, it should just be

937
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 2: nature basically. And so you see over the course of

938
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:28,360
Speaker 2: the film him cutting back to this circle being created.

939
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:32,359
Speaker 2: I'm not entirely convinced that it's a small circle on

940
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 2: his property. I'm not entirely convinced that. Returning to scenes

941
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 2: of Deluchi watching two men hammering stones into his lawn

942
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:45,240
Speaker 2: to form a magic circle, offers the powerful statement Kosakovski desires,

943
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 2: but I appreciated the modest enterprises poetic implications, and I

944
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 2: appreciated enough of the visual poetry. I saw an architect On.

945
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 3: I'm hooked. I mean, this all sounds great to me.

946
00:55:56,480 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 3: And yeah, especially having liked Gunda, I think there's actually

947
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 3: an architect On screening tonight, So if we if I

948
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 3: get out of here pretty soon, I might try to

949
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 3: make that, But otherwise we'll definitely catch up with it

950
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 3: on release for sure.

951
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 2: Architect On is currently playing in limited release. I look

952
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 2: forward to your thoughts once you see it. If you

953
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 2: like Gunda, though it does sound like a different scale

954
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 2: of filmmaking, as we alluded to, I have a feeling

955
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 2: you will appreciate this film as well. Next week on

956
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 2: the show, Josh, have I been tricked? Well, maybe I'm

957
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,360
Speaker 2: the one who's tricked myself into seeing a horror movie

958
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 2: because I saw the trailer for the new film starring

959
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 2: Alison Brie and Dave Franco together it looked really interesting

960
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 2: to me. They are a couple who experience a supernatural

961
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:45,319
Speaker 2: encounter that transforms their relationship and apparently their flesh. It

962
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 2: was a film that debuted at a midnight screening at

963
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:52,239
Speaker 2: Sundance earlier this year, and then maybe it's changed in

964
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:54,880
Speaker 2: the last couple of days, but recently this is a

965
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 2: one hundred percenter on Rotten Tomatoes. People are really digging it.

966
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,239
Speaker 2: Indie Wires Kate Rblane was at that midnight screening at

967
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 2: Sundance and she called it a crowd pleasing and screaming

968
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:07,359
Speaker 2: little ditty of a midnight treat. So are we gonna

969
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 2: see it and talk about it?

970
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:11,839
Speaker 3: I mean I did raise my eyebrow when this showed

971
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:13,799
Speaker 3: up on the schedule as a sure thing. I thought,

972
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 3: wait a minute, does Adam know what this is about?

973
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 3: But yeah, I definitely definitely intrigued. Glad to hear you

974
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 3: are as well. So I think I think we're going

975
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 3: to put ourselves through this, Adam, and we'll see what

976
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 3: we feel on the other.

977
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 2: Side, okay, and we will see if we're ready finally

978
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 2: for our close ups. We talked about The Apartment, a

979
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 2: Pantheon Project review of that Billy Wilder film a couple

980
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 2: of weeks ago, and Sunset Boulevard is turning seventy five

981
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 2: this year, so this is this is kind of the

982
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 2: doldrums August, those first few weeks of August, especially when

983
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 2: when summer is sadly kind of ending. So this is

984
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 2: why we're taking advantage of these weeks to see movies,

985
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 2: re see movies, and talk about films like One Flow

986
00:57:57,520 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 2: Over the Cuckoo's Nest and even the Apartment and some

987
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 2: Set Boulevard. So that is on the schedule right now, Josh,

988
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 2: are we sticking with it?

989
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 3: Yeah? I can't wait to revisit this one. I don't

990
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 3: know when the last time was that I watched it,

991
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 3: and it feels quite a while ago, though it also

992
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 3: has that similar status I mentioned with One Flow Over

993
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 3: the Cuckoo's Nest, where you see clips at award shows

994
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 3: and movie appreciation documentaries and that sort of thing so

995
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 3: often that it seems fresh in my brain, but a

996
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 3: full viewing with it, it's been a while.

997
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:33,600
Speaker 2: We will also have results from the Sunset Boulevard inspired

998
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 2: Deeply Flawed Film Spotting poll. I'm not sure if this

999
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 2: one is deeply flawed, but those might be my famous

1000
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 2: last words. It asks you to choose one and only

1001
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 2: one actress playing an actress going through it. I did

1002
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 2: notice that Michael Phillips missed those directions. The options are

1003
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 2: all great. You got Naomi Watson there, Glorious Swanson, Jenner Rowlands,

1004
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 2: Betty Davis, Natalie Portman, Laura durn Scarlett Johansson, Juliette Binoche.

1005
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 2: I do love that Sam and included Juliette Venoche even

1006
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 2: though like seventeen people saw The Clouds of sALS Maria

1007
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 2: and I like The Clouds of sALS Maria the Olivier

1008
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 2: Asss film quite a bit, but I don't expect it

1009
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 2: to fare well in this poll. We will have those results.

1010
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 2: I have to imagine that Naomi Watts is currently leading

1011
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:20,960
Speaker 2: that poll. I haven't looked.

1012
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 3: It was one of Michael's two choices. Probably your choice

1013
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 3: as well, I believe, And yeah, I went with General

1014
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 3: Rowlands in Opening Night Bent, but can absolutely understand a

1015
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 3: vote for Naomi Watts in Mulholland Drive. If you want

1016
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:36,960
Speaker 3: to vote in that poll, you can also leave a comment.

1017
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 3: Please do it at film spotting dot net and for

1018
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:43,120
Speaker 3: a schedule of our future shows, go to film spotting

1019
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 3: dot Net. Slash episodes Sunset Boulevard Adam one of the

1020
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 3: key texts that influenced Robert Altman's The Player. So we'll

1021
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 3: be sure to touch on that connection at Cinema interrupt Us,

1022
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 3: which is right around the corner.

1023
00:59:57,960 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 11: Now.

1024
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 3: This is going to be August eleven, fourteen at Chicago's

1025
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 3: Gene Ciscol Film Center, four days of communal film criticism.

1026
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 3: We're going to work our way through the player, scene

1027
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 3: by scene. If it takes us all those days to

1028
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 3: do it, we'll use up all that time. I always

1029
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 3: bring bonus material for this. I don't think I have

1030
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 3: clips planned from Sunset. Instead, I think I'm going to

1031
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 3: show a little bit of Touch of Evil and a

1032
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 3: little bit of a movie I was unfamiliar with before

1033
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:29,760
Speaker 3: doing research, nineteen fifty one's Hollywood Story, sort of a

1034
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 3: Hollywood set noir mystery William Castle directed, Pretty Enjoyable. I'll

1035
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 3: show a clip from that as well. For Cinema Interruptis,

1036
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 3: you can get a whole package and at ten to

1037
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 3: all four days, or if you can only make it

1038
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 3: one day, single day tickets are available as well, and

1039
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 3: you can pick those up right now Ciscofilmcenter dot org,

1040
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 3: slash interrupt Us.

1041
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:54,280
Speaker 2: You know, Josh, speaking of bonus material, I wrote a

1042
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 2: pretty good essay back as a film student about that

1043
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 2: opening long take in Touch of Evil. I'll let you

1044
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:00,920
Speaker 2: take a look at.

1045
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 3: It, send it along. Yeah, we'll see if I can

1046
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:03,720
Speaker 3: steal a few things from it.

1047
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 2: Okay.

1048
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:07,280
Speaker 3: This week on our sister podcast, The Next Picture Show,

1049
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 3: looking at Cinema's Present via It's Past. It's part two

1050
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:14,479
Speaker 3: of their Men of Steel pairing. After a very good

1051
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 3: conversation about nineteen seventy eight Superman, they are moving on

1052
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 3: to twenty twenty five Superman. I don't know, Adam, if

1053
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 3: among the Next Picture Show hosts, we'll find anyone sympathetic

1054
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 3: to our negative responses to Superman, or it'll just be

1055
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:34,440
Speaker 3: more praise. I have yet to listen to that installment myself,

1056
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:37,480
Speaker 3: but we'll get to that at some point. Also, we

1057
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 3: want to encourage you to listen to Keith Phipps new podcast.

1058
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 3: Keith one of the Next Picture Show hosts. Of course.

1059
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:46,080
Speaker 3: His new podcast is called The Laser Age and he's

1060
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 3: exploring science fiction films from the second half of the

1061
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 3: twentieth century. That too, is available wherever you get your podcasts.

1062
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:56,920
Speaker 3: Time now for MASCAR Theater, where we perform a scene

1063
01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 3: and you get a chance to win a film spotting prize.

1064
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 3: Last we mascred this scene. Sup soups.

1065
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:11,520
Speaker 13: Wow, it's Batman and he's at my house right now?

1066
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,160
Speaker 3: What are you doing here? Don't worry about it, Doug.

1067
01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:16,560
Speaker 3: I'm not here to throw down or anything. Uh No,

1068
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 3: I would crush you. Okay, sure, sure, sure, hey listen,

1069
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 3: thank me later.

1070
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 2: But I just happened to be in the hood, and

1071
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:33,240
Speaker 2: I figured that you could probably use the company.

1072
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, are you? Are you having the fifty seventh.

1073
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 4: Annual Justice League Anniversary party without he?

1074
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:49,240
Speaker 3: No? No, no. That was Channing Tatum's Superman with Will

1075
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 3: Arnett's Batman in twenty seventeen's The Lego Batman Movie. It

1076
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 3: was written by Chris mcada, John Whittington, Seth Graham Smith,

1077
01:02:56,480 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 3: Eric Summers, and Jared Stern and directed by Chris McKay.

1078
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 3: That massacre was part of our Superman extravaganza. A couple

1079
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:08,120
Speaker 3: of weeks back. We did review James Gunn's Superman and

1080
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:11,919
Speaker 3: we also shared our top five Superman moments. So why

1081
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 3: that scene from the Lego Batman Movie?

1082
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 2: Did each one of those writers contribute like a line

1083
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:17,520
Speaker 2: at a time?

1084
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:20,280
Speaker 3: I was just thinking, you know, you get that many writers,

1085
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 3: it usually doesn't bode well for the for the finished product.

1086
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:24,880
Speaker 3: But I think it worked out pretty well.

1087
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 2: This time it worked. Matthew from Brooklyn, New York says,

1088
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:29,520
Speaker 2: in last week's episode, you massacred a scene from the

1089
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:32,560
Speaker 2: Lego Batman, the obvious connection being that you discussed Superman.

1090
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 2: But more deeply this could have been because although it

1091
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:37,840
Speaker 2: didn't work for you, James Gunn brought a different take

1092
01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 2: on the character, especially the visual look of the world,

1093
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 2: just as Lego Batman did.

1094
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:46,440
Speaker 3: Here's Angela capis from Richmond, Virginia. Hey, Adam and Josh,

1095
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:49,040
Speaker 3: you guys did a fantastic job playing Batman and Superman

1096
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 3: in the vastly underrated The Lego Batman movie. I haven't

1097
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 3: seen the new Superman movie, but obviously Superman is in

1098
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 3: both films. The Phantom Zone also features heavily which comes

1099
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 3: from previous Superman movies, Love the Show and Massacre Theater.

1100
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:05,480
Speaker 2: Wait. I already called it two different things. Now we're

1101
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 2: calling it the Phantom Zone.

1102
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna say, is that supposed to be

1103
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:12,040
Speaker 3: what's in the twenty twenty five Superman? Is it just

1104
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:14,400
Speaker 3: a riff on that I'm asking questions I don't really

1105
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 3: want the answer to.

1106
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 2: I did google it, and the Phantom zone is a

1107
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 2: real thing, and I think it really is in James

1108
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:22,320
Speaker 2: Gunn Superman, but they never refer to it that way

1109
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:26,240
Speaker 2: that I can recall. Okay, so comic book people should

1110
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 2: get that we are not those. Rory Dunn in Vancouver,

1111
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:32,720
Speaker 2: BC says this massacre theater is from the lego Batman movie.

1112
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 2: The obvious tie in is that everyone is the superheroes

1113
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 2: having fun and enjoying the new Superman, and Adam and

1114
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 2: Josh are the Batman or the Batman who got left

1115
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:43,000
Speaker 2: off the invite list?

1116
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:47,400
Speaker 3: So true, Rory, is this gonna be I was thinking

1117
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 3: about this the other day, Adam, is this going to

1118
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:51,400
Speaker 3: be our Raiders the Lost Dark? Like now we're just

1119
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:52,120
Speaker 3: going to have to live?

1120
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:52,440
Speaker 2: Oh?

1121
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 3: That's right, because Raiders of Lost Dark is a good movie.

1122
01:04:56,680 --> 01:04:56,960
Speaker 3: You know what.

1123
01:04:57,400 --> 01:04:59,920
Speaker 2: I'm going to rue the day that I say that.

1124
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 2: But so far, maybe maybe they just thought we were

1125
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:07,840
Speaker 2: beyond hope. So far, the email bag feedback of film

1126
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:11,320
Speaker 2: spotting dot Net, we've gotten more emails supporting our take

1127
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 2: than those telling us.

1128
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:16,520
Speaker 3: We were intriguing. Okay, because that's that's not the case.

1129
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 3: On the Film Spotting's family discord, the discord, we're taking

1130
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 3: some heat, and you know, again, more reason to join

1131
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:26,120
Speaker 3: the film Spotting family. If you want to give us

1132
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 3: that heat, you can.

1133
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:28,520
Speaker 2: I just think they heard it. They heard it and

1134
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:29,600
Speaker 2: they were like, there's no point.

1135
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 3: It's probably true.

1136
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,280
Speaker 2: So reach into the film Spotting hat and pick out

1137
01:05:34,280 --> 01:05:34,959
Speaker 2: this week's winner.

1138
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:37,960
Speaker 3: Our winner is Steve Whitford from Rhode Island.

1139
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 2: Congratulations Steve, email feedback of film spotting dot net and

1140
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:43,760
Speaker 2: we will set you up with your very own film

1141
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:46,240
Speaker 2: Spotting t shirt or tope bag, or if you're not

1142
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:48,160
Speaker 2: a member of the film Spotting Family, you can have

1143
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 2: a trial membership.

1144
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:54,640
Speaker 3: How did I come to this that I can't.

1145
01:05:56,320 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 11: Five?

1146
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:57,080
Speaker 5: Curtain?

1147
01:05:58,840 --> 01:05:59,400
Speaker 3: Was not your one?

1148
01:05:59,720 --> 01:05:59,919
Speaker 14: Done?

1149
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:03,240
Speaker 3: And look at me? And I want to say that

1150
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:05,600
Speaker 3: stupid line one more time.

1151
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 2: We move on now to this week's edition of Massacre Theater.

1152
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:13,200
Speaker 2: It is a sort of funny voice. We'll see how funny.

1153
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:16,440
Speaker 2: It is a funny voice edition of Massacre Theater, and

1154
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:21,480
Speaker 2: Josh will be the one taking on that heavy burden.

1155
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 2: It's a pretty short scene and it's one in which

1156
01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 2: we will be cutting out some extraneous voices so we

1157
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:32,760
Speaker 2: can focus in on the two main characters. There's there's

1158
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:35,600
Speaker 2: one line in particular here. That should give it away

1159
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:38,200
Speaker 2: if you know this film, and I think maybe we

1160
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 2: can leave it at that.

1161
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:41,840
Speaker 3: You're kind of insulting the original actor, Adam. I don't.

1162
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 3: I don't think they intend this to be a funny voice.

1163
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:47,120
Speaker 2: I think it's the point. I think it's intended to

1164
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:50,920
Speaker 2: be quite cool. I am actually fully insulting you.

1165
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:54,480
Speaker 3: That was all okay, all right, as long as as

1166
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:55,880
Speaker 3: long as things are back where they should be.

1167
01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna start it off. You're gonna give me

1168
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:04,040
Speaker 2: the action and action. This may seem like a really

1169
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:04,760
Speaker 2: stupid question.

1170
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:07,600
Speaker 3: There are no stupid questions.

1171
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:11,520
Speaker 2: You inherit five million dollars the same day aliens land

1172
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 2: on the earth and say they're going to blow it

1173
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:13,480
Speaker 2: up in two days.

1174
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:17,560
Speaker 3: What do you do? That's the stupidest question I ever heard.

1175
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:21,840
Speaker 3: I don't know. Probably row out to the middle of

1176
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:26,360
Speaker 3: the lake somewhere, bring a bottle of tequila, my sacks,

1177
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:35,360
Speaker 3: and uh some back how very later, definitely.

1178
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 14: And scene.

1179
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:41,760
Speaker 2: There will be no insults here. I practiced that earlier

1180
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 2: today and it was one fiftieth of the performance that

1181
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 2: you just gave.

1182
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:50,200
Speaker 3: Oh wow, I did hit a few beats with one.

1183
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:55,120
Speaker 2: Yance that actor gave, but it was a performance.

1184
01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:57,880
Speaker 3: I think in his head that's the performance he was giving.

1185
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:01,040
Speaker 2: Maybe, So if you know what for, we just massacred

1186
01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:03,560
Speaker 2: email the movie's title. We think you do. Email the

1187
01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:05,760
Speaker 2: movie's title in your name and location to feedback at

1188
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:09,640
Speaker 2: filmspotting dot net. The deadline is Monday, August eleven. We'll

1189
01:08:09,640 --> 01:08:12,280
Speaker 2: select the winner randomly from all the correct entries and

1190
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:13,920
Speaker 2: announce it in a couple of weeks.

1191
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:17,439
Speaker 3: How much you worth? I don't know how to do it.

1192
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:19,840
Speaker 3: How much do you want? I just want to know

1193
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 3: what you're worth? Over ten million?

1194
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:22,000
Speaker 2: Oh my?

1195
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:22,439
Speaker 1: Yes?

1196
01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:25,760
Speaker 3: Why are you doing it? How much better can you eat?

1197
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:28,879
Speaker 3: What can you buy that you can't already afford? The future?

1198
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:33,479
Speaker 3: Mister gits the future? Not Where's the girl?

1199
01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:36,719
Speaker 2: Man of the hour, Jack Nicholson there with John Houston

1200
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:40,559
Speaker 2: in Chinatown. Before we get to our top five Nicholson scenes,

1201
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:42,760
Speaker 2: some poll results. A couple of weeks ago, we asked

1202
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:45,800
Speaker 2: you to choose one and only one Nicholson performance. I

1203
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:50,120
Speaker 2: said there was one role running away with It turns

1204
01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:53,000
Speaker 2: out it was Neck and Neck. The options we gave

1205
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:57,400
Speaker 2: you get us in Chinatown, Budusky, the last detail Joker

1206
01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:01,360
Speaker 2: in Batman, mc murphy and Kuckoo's Nen Torrance in the

1207
01:09:01,400 --> 01:09:05,280
Speaker 2: Shining or Other Josh, how did it come out?

1208
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:08,479
Speaker 3: Other is in last place with five percent, Joker got

1209
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:11,519
Speaker 3: six percent and Budusky got seven percent. A little closer

1210
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:15,360
Speaker 3: here with the top three Torrents in the Shining twenty

1211
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:20,200
Speaker 3: one percent of the vote, and yeah, one percent separates

1212
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:24,439
Speaker 3: the second place finisher with twenty nine percent. McMurphy from

1213
01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:27,640
Speaker 3: Cuckoo's Nest. That means that Gettis took it. Chinatown got

1214
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:28,599
Speaker 3: thirty percent of the vote.

1215
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:33,000
Speaker 2: I'm surprised. I really thought Nick murphy would maintain that

1216
01:09:33,240 --> 01:09:35,639
Speaker 2: lead and run away with it. Though of course, Chinatown

1217
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:39,080
Speaker 2: an incredible film and I do love that character. Jake Gittis,

1218
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:42,519
Speaker 2: Here's Jan McDaniel, McMurphy and Kucko's Nest is a singular

1219
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:45,840
Speaker 2: Nicholson performance, primarily for the honesty of his portrayal. All

1220
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:48,679
Speaker 2: these roles are powerful, but there is a stylized quality

1221
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:50,880
Speaker 2: to them, either because of the era Chinatown or the

1222
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:54,520
Speaker 2: genre The Shining Batman. Nicholson puts a layer of artificiality

1223
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:57,439
Speaker 2: into his acting, but with McMurphy he transforms from a

1224
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 2: con turning into a reformer. That so shakes the the establishment.

1225
01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:04,200
Speaker 2: He's redacted, well, who spoiled it to eliminate his power?

1226
01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:08,120
Speaker 2: This is high water mark Nicholson, in my honest opinion.

1227
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:10,920
Speaker 3: We also got a comment from Bill van zandt these

1228
01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:13,719
Speaker 3: are all great choices. I finally watched the last detail

1229
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:16,120
Speaker 3: not too long ago and considered it for my vote here,

1230
01:10:16,479 --> 01:10:18,880
Speaker 3: But I just can't get Nicholson's Joker out of my head,

1231
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:21,840
Speaker 3: deranged and clearly having a good time with it. Might

1232
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:24,320
Speaker 3: not be his best performance, but it's the movie I'd

1233
01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:25,960
Speaker 3: most enjoy watching again.

1234
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:29,200
Speaker 2: Here's Josh of the nominees, it's got to be Chinatown.

1235
01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:31,719
Speaker 2: Cuckoo's Nest is a close second. But over his career,

1236
01:10:31,960 --> 01:10:36,719
Speaker 2: five easy pieces fatally flawed again, he says, exclamation point.

1237
01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:39,840
Speaker 3: Man harsh Josh. Here's a comment from Taylor Cole. Not

1238
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:41,880
Speaker 3: a bad choice among the options here, But I had

1239
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:44,080
Speaker 3: to go outther. I spent most of my youth thinking

1240
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:49,200
Speaker 3: of Jack as a caricaturist, a talented, supremely watchable caricaturist,

1241
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:52,200
Speaker 3: but never thought of him as being particularly subtle or nuanced.

1242
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:55,400
Speaker 3: Catching up with five easy Pieces changed all that for me,

1243
01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:57,639
Speaker 3: So I had to give his performance there my vote.

1244
01:10:57,840 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 2: Here's sean means to close us out? Is it possible

1245
01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:03,080
Speaker 2: that the deeply flawed Film Spotting poll can't handle the

1246
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:06,760
Speaker 2: truth of all of Jack Nicholson's great movie performances. I

1247
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:09,719
Speaker 2: have to pick his turn as Colonel Nathan R. Jessup

1248
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:11,679
Speaker 2: in Rob Reiner's A Few Good Men as the topper.

1249
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:14,879
Speaker 2: Giving Nicholson a chance to chew up Aaron Sorkin's dialogue

1250
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:18,720
Speaker 2: was a brilliant choice, and Nicholson runs with it. Thank

1251
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:22,200
Speaker 2: you it does to everyone who voted and everyone who

1252
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:26,400
Speaker 2: left a comment. That does nicely set the table for

1253
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 2: us as we transition into our top five Jack Nicholson scenes.

1254
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 2: We should note, or we like to note, that there

1255
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:40,439
Speaker 2: are three of these films that or two actually two

1256
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:43,040
Speaker 2: films that you just heard mentioned that are in the

1257
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:46,519
Speaker 2: Film Spotting pantheon, Chinatown and one Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

1258
01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:49,400
Speaker 2: That doesn't matter for one of these career retrospectives we

1259
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:54,120
Speaker 2: are allowed to choose from Chinatown and Cuckoo's Nest. There's

1260
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:57,799
Speaker 2: also a film that probably should be because it's certainly

1261
01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:00,360
Speaker 2: been referenced and praised enough on the show, and that

1262
01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:03,519
Speaker 2: is the Shining doesn't matter even if it wasn't the pantheon,

1263
01:12:03,640 --> 01:12:05,640
Speaker 2: but I wanted to acknowledge that the shining has come

1264
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:07,680
Speaker 2: up a lot. We'll see if it gets mentioned here

1265
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 2: by one of us. What else do you want to

1266
01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:13,720
Speaker 2: say about how you approached your list, Josh, I.

1267
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:18,600
Speaker 3: Think it's right to describe this list as career retrospective.

1268
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:21,479
Speaker 3: I try to treat it that way, do a lot

1269
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:24,680
Speaker 3: of homework. Of course, I can't be exhaustive, so there

1270
01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:27,960
Speaker 3: are still gaps in his filmography, but it's kind of

1271
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:31,000
Speaker 3: an excuse to do our best right now. And when

1272
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 3: doing that, you know, we look at different eras the decades.

1273
01:12:35,439 --> 01:12:37,920
Speaker 3: Maybe an actor or actress is at their strongest or

1274
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:41,200
Speaker 3: made some of their best work, and maybe why that was.

1275
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:44,320
Speaker 3: And it did strike me, Adam, that it's no wonder

1276
01:12:44,400 --> 01:12:47,240
Speaker 3: Jack Nicholson broke out in the nineteen seventies. We didn't

1277
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:50,000
Speaker 3: do a ton of discussion about the politics. In One

1278
01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:51,880
Speaker 3: flo Over the Cuckoo's Nest, we kind of touched on it,

1279
01:12:52,400 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 3: But that film and his character there falls into this

1280
01:12:56,360 --> 01:12:59,880
Speaker 3: same the same type that I would say, I just

1281
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:04,360
Speaker 3: describe as the charismatic iconoclast who's bucking the system. And

1282
01:13:04,479 --> 01:13:07,800
Speaker 3: there are variations on that, for sure, but it was

1283
01:13:07,880 --> 01:13:11,600
Speaker 3: a character made, a persona made for that era, and

1284
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:13,639
Speaker 3: I think that's why he resonated. I think that's why

1285
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:16,560
Speaker 3: he broke out. He captured the frustration of trying to

1286
01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:19,960
Speaker 3: buck the system in that era, in Nixon's America and

1287
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:22,800
Speaker 3: its aftermath, because the reality was you could only push

1288
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:26,080
Speaker 3: things so far right, and so many of Nicholson's characters

1289
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:28,360
Speaker 3: mesmerized us by trying to do that, and then they

1290
01:13:28,360 --> 01:13:31,080
Speaker 3: would tragically hit a wall. So I definitely have a

1291
01:13:31,120 --> 01:13:34,040
Speaker 3: couple of scenes that speak to that quality. But going

1292
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:37,479
Speaker 3: back to the career retrospective element, Nicholson's career is so

1293
01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:39,920
Speaker 3: vast and varied that I wanted to be sure to

1294
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:43,240
Speaker 3: represent that as well, represent his range, represent some of

1295
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 3: the other eras that he was still vital in. It

1296
01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:49,600
Speaker 3: wasn't just the seventies, So I didn't stick only to

1297
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:52,759
Speaker 3: charismatic iconoclass, even though I think that was his essence,

1298
01:13:53,439 --> 01:13:56,280
Speaker 3: and again, the era he offered it, that's what cemented

1299
01:13:56,360 --> 01:14:00,599
Speaker 3: him so early as a legend. It was like, within

1300
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:02,599
Speaker 3: a couple of years he became a legendi. I think

1301
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:04,639
Speaker 3: that's the reason why a lot of crossover there.

1302
01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:07,840
Speaker 2: I definitely considered how I wanted to or if I

1303
01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:11,080
Speaker 2: did want to represent his entire career. He made films

1304
01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:14,400
Speaker 2: from the late nineteen fifties up to twenty ten, so

1305
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:17,160
Speaker 2: you've got a full five decades to cover. He has

1306
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:21,960
Speaker 2: OSCAR nominated work, Josh technically in five decades. Because Easy

1307
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:24,760
Speaker 2: Writer is a sixty nine film. Yeah, that's incredible and

1308
01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:29,599
Speaker 2: was celebrated at the seventy Oscars. Ultimately, I did keep

1309
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:33,839
Speaker 2: it pretty focused on what was undoubtedly his most fruitful period.

1310
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:37,639
Speaker 2: A little bit of trivia about him. He has twelve

1311
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:41,000
Speaker 2: Academy Award nominations. I did not realize that until I

1312
01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:43,800
Speaker 2: looked at that chart. Eight for Best Actor, four for

1313
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:47,680
Speaker 2: Best Supporting Actor. He's the most nominated male actor in

1314
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:49,040
Speaker 2: Academy Awards history.

1315
01:14:49,439 --> 01:14:51,960
Speaker 3: And what an interesting mix too. You usually think of

1316
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:55,400
Speaker 3: maybe getting the supporting when you're breaking out, and then

1317
01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:57,960
Speaker 3: once you get in that lead actor category, that's where

1318
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:00,800
Speaker 3: you stay, even if you're a multiple time nomina, right,

1319
01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:03,960
Speaker 3: but Yeah, to have that mix speaks to the different

1320
01:15:04,360 --> 01:15:06,880
Speaker 3: space he could take up and was willing to take

1321
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:08,720
Speaker 3: up on a film, even though we think about him

1322
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:10,600
Speaker 3: as having an outsized personality.

1323
01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:13,760
Speaker 2: Right, One last bit of Trivia with three Oscar wins.

1324
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:17,639
Speaker 2: He also ties Walter Brennan, Daniel da Lewis, Ingrid Bergman,

1325
01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:20,080
Speaker 2: and Francis McDorman and Meryl Street for the second most

1326
01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:23,360
Speaker 2: Oscar wins in acting categories. So here again a lot

1327
01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:26,200
Speaker 2: of crossover. Like you, I considered the types of Jacks

1328
01:15:26,280 --> 01:15:30,240
Speaker 2: I wanted represented the range. There may be one Nicholson

1329
01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:34,559
Speaker 2: impression that everyone does, but that doesn't actually, of course,

1330
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:37,360
Speaker 2: capture the range of characters. He plays the shades he

1331
01:15:37,439 --> 01:15:40,920
Speaker 2: brings to those characters, and maybe I was inspired by

1332
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:45,679
Speaker 2: Spinal Tap two coming out, and in Spinal Tap one

1333
01:15:46,360 --> 01:15:50,559
Speaker 2: they talk about the Jack the Ripper musical they considered

1334
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:53,439
Speaker 2: saucy Jack. So I'm going to offer up some different

1335
01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:57,960
Speaker 2: Jacks that made my list. But there will be a

1336
01:15:58,240 --> 01:16:02,400
Speaker 2: through line and it does connect to what you said,

1337
01:16:02,560 --> 01:16:06,519
Speaker 2: Josh about the iconoclast the rebel. But it's not so

1338
01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:09,720
Speaker 2: much about picking the rebel character. It's more about what

1339
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:13,719
Speaker 2: the rebel character stands for, which will make more sense

1340
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:16,280
Speaker 2: I think as we get into my picks here, So

1341
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:18,439
Speaker 2: which scene are you going with at.

1342
01:16:18,400 --> 01:16:21,400
Speaker 3: Number five and number five? This one I think does

1343
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:25,120
Speaker 3: speak to his range and also that ability to not

1344
01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:28,760
Speaker 3: take up as much space in a film, and in

1345
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:33,680
Speaker 3: terms of Endearment from nineteen eighty three, this was a

1346
01:16:33,720 --> 01:16:37,960
Speaker 3: supporting actor whin you can almost sense, not the relief,

1347
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:40,679
Speaker 3: but just the fun he's having, not needing to carry

1348
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:43,360
Speaker 3: the movie because he's not He's not the main character,

1349
01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 3: but he's so good in it. I also wanted to

1350
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:49,360
Speaker 3: include something from Terms of Endearment because I did want

1351
01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:52,599
Speaker 3: to represent his romantic side on screen that he had

1352
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:54,360
Speaker 3: that he did have this run of films in the

1353
01:16:54,439 --> 01:16:56,720
Speaker 3: eighties that were in this vein. Two of them I

1354
01:16:56,800 --> 01:16:59,240
Speaker 3: hadn't seen before Terms of Endearment, and then nineteen eighty

1355
01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:02,640
Speaker 3: six is Heartburn. Heartburn failed me. I gotta admit, I

1356
01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:05,280
Speaker 3: mean Nicholson and Meryl Streep, they're doing their best to

1357
01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:09,400
Speaker 3: bring it to life. But yeah, terms of Endearment that

1358
01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:12,920
Speaker 3: I found to be a performance bonanza. So I am

1359
01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:15,479
Speaker 3: going to go with a moment from terms for my

1360
01:17:15,560 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 3: first pick.

1361
01:17:16,160 --> 01:17:16,280
Speaker 11: Here.

1362
01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 3: The clear strength of this James L. Brooks's Best Picture

1363
01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:22,799
Speaker 3: winner are the performances. You get great work from Nicholson,

1364
01:17:22,920 --> 01:17:27,759
Speaker 3: surely McClain, my goodness, and Deborah Winger who Wingers probably

1365
01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:31,240
Speaker 3: the strongest of the three, even though McClain and Nicholson.

1366
01:17:31,280 --> 01:17:35,360
Speaker 3: They both won Oscars. He is Garrett Breedlove, a former

1367
01:17:35,479 --> 01:17:39,720
Speaker 3: astronaut who lives next door to McLean's Aurora Greenway. They're

1368
01:17:39,760 --> 01:17:42,479
Speaker 3: both flirtatious, they're frisky and middle aged. They have each

1369
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:45,439
Speaker 3: of their own sets of admirers, and yes, initially they

1370
01:17:46,040 --> 01:17:49,720
Speaker 3: despise each other. The movie eventually gets around to them

1371
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:53,840
Speaker 3: having this fling and it's full of passion, it's full

1372
01:17:53,920 --> 01:17:57,200
Speaker 3: of real honesty for a short while that only two

1373
01:17:57,280 --> 01:17:59,439
Speaker 3: people at this stage of their lives together I think,

1374
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:04,800
Speaker 3: can have. But Garrett just can't commit. So there is

1375
01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:07,800
Speaker 3: this heartbreaking moment where he makes that clear. And this

1376
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:10,799
Speaker 3: is even Adam after he has flown to meet Arora

1377
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:13,400
Speaker 3: at the hospital where her daughter played by Winger, is

1378
01:18:13,479 --> 01:18:16,960
Speaker 3: terminally ill. And you feel like this is the turning

1379
01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:20,880
Speaker 3: point in the movie, right his appearance there. It's where

1380
01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:23,559
Speaker 3: maybe he's going to fully give of himself. He has

1381
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:26,880
Speaker 3: a surprise arrival at the hotel. It's incredibly romantic, but

1382
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:29,040
Speaker 3: then when she brings him back to the airport, she

1383
01:18:29,200 --> 01:18:31,920
Speaker 3: puts herself out there and he just can't do it.

1384
01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:36,160
Speaker 9: I was curious, do you have any reaction at all

1385
01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:37,280
Speaker 9: to my telling you I love you.

1386
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:41,519
Speaker 10: I was just inchious from a Queen getaway.

1387
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:45,080
Speaker 9: Well, your stock sufface it.

1388
01:18:49,320 --> 01:18:51,960
Speaker 3: I don't know what else to say except my stock

1389
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:58,000
Speaker 3: answer it she is, I love you too, kid, I

1390
01:18:58,120 --> 01:19:01,639
Speaker 3: love you two kid. That's my pick. That's my scene.

1391
01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:06,320
Speaker 3: You've got to see Nicholson smile, the one he gives here. Yeah,

1392
01:19:06,439 --> 01:19:11,040
Speaker 3: it's irresistible and maddening because Garrett knows he's being awful,

1393
01:19:11,600 --> 01:19:13,680
Speaker 3: and he knows he's gonna get away with it, and

1394
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:18,320
Speaker 3: so that just really really hurts for Aurora, of course,

1395
01:19:18,400 --> 01:19:20,240
Speaker 3: but for the viewer as well. So I'm gonna go

1396
01:19:20,320 --> 01:19:23,720
Speaker 3: with a supporting performance pick here at number five. That's

1397
01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:26,240
Speaker 3: the Oscar Nicholson one, and I, you know, I just

1398
01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:28,000
Speaker 3: really like it because it does allow him to be

1399
01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:30,719
Speaker 3: in that romantic gear, but he's not. He's not betraying

1400
01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:34,360
Speaker 3: the flagrant charisma that was also a part of his persona.

1401
01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:36,800
Speaker 3: So for me, it's I love you too, kid. He is.

1402
01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:40,800
Speaker 2: He's so much fun in that role. He's irresistible even

1403
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:44,640
Speaker 2: as he won't commit. He seems to stand for everything

1404
01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:49,320
Speaker 2: that she doesn't stand for. And yet and yet you know,

1405
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:51,479
Speaker 2: he is, as you said, going to get away with it.

1406
01:19:51,960 --> 01:19:54,400
Speaker 2: There are people like that in the world, very few

1407
01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:57,320
Speaker 2: people like that in the world maybe, and that Nicholson

1408
01:19:57,479 --> 01:20:00,439
Speaker 2: character is one of them. He inhabits it. Oh well,

1409
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:04,560
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with another supporting role, another Oscar nominated

1410
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:08,080
Speaker 2: role at number five. We might as well begin at

1411
01:20:08,120 --> 01:20:11,679
Speaker 2: the beginning with not his first screen role, but certainly

1412
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:15,439
Speaker 2: his breakout role and that first Oscar nomination playing George Hanson.

1413
01:20:15,880 --> 01:20:21,000
Speaker 2: An easy writer, and I'm calling him poignant Jack. There's

1414
01:20:21,640 --> 01:20:26,479
Speaker 2: there's no or very little gilding the lily with George Hanson.

1415
01:20:26,720 --> 01:20:30,080
Speaker 2: He's got one recurring tick, if you will, the noise.

1416
01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:33,280
Speaker 2: He likes to make a little physical tick as well.

1417
01:20:33,760 --> 01:20:37,240
Speaker 2: He likes to say swamp, you'll hear it. Otherwise he's

1418
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:41,840
Speaker 2: very mellow, and that's because he's so damn high. In

1419
01:20:42,040 --> 01:20:45,719
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, for Rolling Stone, Noel Murray and Tim Gerson

1420
01:20:46,280 --> 01:20:50,840
Speaker 2: anointed the movie Stoner Hall of Fame, and here's how

1421
01:20:50,920 --> 01:20:55,000
Speaker 2: they describe George tagging along on Peter Fonda and Dennis

1422
01:20:55,040 --> 01:20:58,799
Speaker 2: Hopper's cross country drug odyssey, Jack Nicholson's football helmeted Hanson

1423
01:20:59,080 --> 01:21:01,280
Speaker 2: stands for all the square who could easily be cool

1424
01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:04,360
Speaker 2: if they just turn on a slick talking Southern lawyer

1425
01:21:04,439 --> 01:21:07,000
Speaker 2: with a thirst for booze. George tries grass for the

1426
01:21:07,080 --> 01:21:09,200
Speaker 2: first time while hanging out with his new hippie friends,

1427
01:21:09,479 --> 01:21:14,200
Speaker 2: and soon finds himself deeply relaxed philosophizing about Venusians and bullfrogs.

1428
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:17,120
Speaker 2: Though Nicholson's part is small, easy writer helped make him

1429
01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:19,040
Speaker 2: a star. He's the assault of the Earth guy next

1430
01:21:19,080 --> 01:21:22,360
Speaker 2: door who makes dope smoking acceptable to the everyman by

1431
01:21:22,439 --> 01:21:26,400
Speaker 2: turning it into an exercise of our nation's divinely bestowed freedoms.

1432
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:30,320
Speaker 2: God bless America. Indeed, So I'm not picking the part

1433
01:21:30,360 --> 01:21:33,480
Speaker 2: of the scene where they're talking about Venusians and bullfrogs

1434
01:21:33,760 --> 01:21:38,760
Speaker 2: and UFOs. I'm going with the end of the campfire scene.

1435
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:42,040
Speaker 2: It's almost a monologue, but it is a conversation between

1436
01:21:42,120 --> 01:21:46,240
Speaker 2: George and Dennis Hopper's Billy. I said George was high.

1437
01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:50,600
Speaker 2: Reportedly that didn't require much acting because Nicholson, Fonda, and

1438
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:54,599
Speaker 2: Hopper were all partaking during this scene and I'm sure

1439
01:21:55,120 --> 01:21:59,040
Speaker 2: many others. And it starts. I do love this touch

1440
01:21:59,080 --> 01:22:02,599
Speaker 2: by Hopper, the director. It starts with Nicholson talking right

1441
01:22:02,680 --> 01:22:03,320
Speaker 2: to the camp.

1442
01:22:03,760 --> 01:22:04,000
Speaker 7: You know.

1443
01:22:05,720 --> 01:22:07,839
Speaker 10: This used to be a hell of a good country.

1444
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:11,519
Speaker 3: I can't understand how it's going on.

1445
01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:15,880
Speaker 2: I just loved the irony and audacity of that line.

1446
01:22:16,160 --> 01:22:20,080
Speaker 2: Most of America is saying that about people like this trio.

1447
01:22:20,560 --> 01:22:22,400
Speaker 2: It used to be a good country before we had

1448
01:22:22,439 --> 01:22:25,400
Speaker 2: people like these long haired hippies riding around on their

1449
01:22:25,479 --> 01:22:28,240
Speaker 2: motorcycles ruining it. And I know there was a lot

1450
01:22:28,280 --> 01:22:31,760
Speaker 2: of improvisation on the film, but I believe the film

1451
01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:35,360
Speaker 2: was credited to Terry Southern and this dialogue here as well.

1452
01:22:35,560 --> 01:22:38,839
Speaker 2: And it feels that way because I can just imagine

1453
01:22:39,160 --> 01:22:42,240
Speaker 2: I've never asked my mom about it, but I can imagine.

1454
01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:43,920
Speaker 2: I know they liked the film. I know they liked

1455
01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:46,600
Speaker 2: the soundtrack. I can imagine a whole lot of seventeen

1456
01:22:46,840 --> 01:22:49,160
Speaker 2: and eighteen year olds at the time, like my parents,

1457
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:52,920
Speaker 2: who definitely would not be classified as hippies, who saw

1458
01:22:53,000 --> 01:22:58,000
Speaker 2: this movie in the theater, heard those words and Nicholson's

1459
01:22:58,439 --> 01:23:02,400
Speaker 2: conviction speaking them, and all of a sudden started thinking

1460
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:05,920
Speaker 2: about what freedom really means, what.

1461
01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:07,040
Speaker 14: The hell's wrong with freedom?

1462
01:23:07,080 --> 01:23:08,120
Speaker 5: And that's what it's all about.

1463
01:23:08,320 --> 01:23:10,160
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's right, that's what it's.

1464
01:23:10,040 --> 01:23:10,960
Speaker 13: All about, all right.

1465
01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:12,840
Speaker 3: But talking about it.

1466
01:23:13,040 --> 01:23:17,599
Speaker 14: And being it it's two different things. I mean, it's

1467
01:23:17,720 --> 01:23:19,240
Speaker 14: real hard to be free.

1468
01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:21,560
Speaker 4: When you are bought and sold in the marketplace.

1469
01:23:24,960 --> 01:23:27,479
Speaker 14: Of course, don't ever tell anybody that they're not free,

1470
01:23:27,520 --> 01:23:30,479
Speaker 14: because then they gonna get real busy killing and mamand

1471
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:34,200
Speaker 14: to prove to you that they are. Oh yeah, they

1472
01:23:34,320 --> 01:23:36,760
Speaker 14: gonna talk to you and talk to you and talk

1473
01:23:36,880 --> 01:23:42,080
Speaker 14: to you about individual freedom. What they see free individual

1474
01:23:42,479 --> 01:23:43,639
Speaker 14: It's gonna scare them.

1475
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:47,080
Speaker 3: No, well, don't make them running scared.

1476
01:23:49,040 --> 01:23:51,520
Speaker 14: No, it might some dangers.

1477
01:23:53,040 --> 01:23:55,720
Speaker 2: It wasn't planned at all, but I mentioned that there

1478
01:23:55,840 --> 01:23:58,200
Speaker 2: was a through line for me. I realized how many

1479
01:23:58,920 --> 01:24:01,880
Speaker 2: of the scenes I was considering and the characters I

1480
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:07,920
Speaker 2: was drawn to with Jack were fundamentally about this question

1481
01:24:08,680 --> 01:24:14,479
Speaker 2: and not always politically, this question about freedom, and it

1482
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:17,960
Speaker 2: all comes back and what it means to be free

1483
01:24:18,280 --> 01:24:20,160
Speaker 2: in the different ways that you can be free, And

1484
01:24:20,280 --> 01:24:22,560
Speaker 2: it all starts with easy writer, And that's why I

1485
01:24:22,680 --> 01:24:23,880
Speaker 2: wanted to start with this scene.

1486
01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:26,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, his dynamic, the dynamic he brings to that movie

1487
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:29,920
Speaker 3: is so crucial. It just opens it up, you know,

1488
01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:33,559
Speaker 3: to speak to walks of life that aren't these guys

1489
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:36,360
Speaker 3: who were otherwise embedded with right. So I think he's

1490
01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:39,280
Speaker 3: he's so important to the movie in that way. While

1491
01:24:39,360 --> 01:24:43,040
Speaker 3: watching the scene today, I don't though, like, just pluck

1492
01:24:43,160 --> 01:24:46,280
Speaker 3: a lot of that speech out and put it out there,

1493
01:24:46,560 --> 01:24:49,559
Speaker 3: don't even say who it's from exactly. And the way

1494
01:24:49,760 --> 01:24:54,839
Speaker 3: it is speaking to where we're at and how ideas

1495
01:24:54,960 --> 01:24:58,400
Speaker 3: of like freedom and individual liberty have been perverted and

1496
01:24:58,560 --> 01:25:02,719
Speaker 3: distorted is My eyes just kept getting wider and wider

1497
01:25:02,840 --> 01:25:06,559
Speaker 3: as the scene went on. It's off, it's depressing and harrowing,

1498
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:09,519
Speaker 3: but speaks also to the you know, to the the

1499
01:25:09,840 --> 01:25:14,400
Speaker 3: intelligence and awareness and political vision of a film that

1500
01:25:14,439 --> 01:25:16,920
Speaker 3: I think is sometimes thought of as like a drug movie.

1501
01:25:17,040 --> 01:25:17,240
Speaker 11: You know.

1502
01:25:17,400 --> 01:25:21,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely had a similar reaction rewatching it, and

1503
01:25:21,800 --> 01:25:24,600
Speaker 2: it was funny that this popped up. You know, the

1504
01:25:25,439 --> 01:25:29,120
Speaker 2: the bots somehow know what you're thinking about and talking about,

1505
01:25:29,200 --> 01:25:31,600
Speaker 2: and so you get served this content. I saw a

1506
01:25:31,680 --> 01:25:36,479
Speaker 2: video on Instagram over the weekend of Fonda and Hopper

1507
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:39,519
Speaker 2: accepting some award or I'm sorry, I think they were

1508
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:42,559
Speaker 2: presenting Nicholson with an award, and so of course they

1509
01:25:42,600 --> 01:25:44,800
Speaker 2: were reminiscing about the making of Easy Writer, and they

1510
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:47,920
Speaker 2: were talking about how Nicholson got forced on them. They

1511
01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:50,280
Speaker 2: had someone else cast for the role, and they didn't

1512
01:25:50,320 --> 01:25:53,280
Speaker 2: know really who this Jack Nicholson was. They didn't want

1513
01:25:53,360 --> 01:25:56,600
Speaker 2: him for the role, and whoever they were working with

1514
01:25:56,760 --> 01:25:58,720
Speaker 2: as the producer of the film, was like, no, he's

1515
01:25:58,800 --> 01:26:00,639
Speaker 2: the guy. You have to put him in the film.

1516
01:26:01,120 --> 01:26:04,479
Speaker 2: And they were initially against it, and then they started

1517
01:26:04,520 --> 01:26:05,960
Speaker 2: working with him and they put him in the film,

1518
01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:08,160
Speaker 2: and they saw how good he was, and they saw,

1519
01:26:08,240 --> 01:26:10,080
Speaker 2: of course what he went on to be. And you know,

1520
01:26:10,240 --> 01:26:13,719
Speaker 2: Fonda said it was the best money they ever spent, obviously,

1521
01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:15,720
Speaker 2: was casting Nicholson in the movie. And you see it.

1522
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:18,760
Speaker 2: You see even in that film, even though what we

1523
01:26:18,880 --> 01:26:22,040
Speaker 2: think of is charisma, the big Jack, the one flew

1524
01:26:22,080 --> 01:26:25,960
Speaker 2: over the cuckoo's nest, Jack isn't in that scene at all. No,

1525
01:26:26,760 --> 01:26:30,479
Speaker 2: you still get the star power of Jack delivering those lines.

1526
01:26:30,840 --> 01:26:33,519
Speaker 3: All right, well, let's get to some Big Jack. Because

1527
01:26:34,200 --> 01:26:37,120
Speaker 3: I knew I wanted to make one pick Adam from

1528
01:26:37,240 --> 01:26:41,520
Speaker 3: a performance, a performance where Nicholson leads with his eyebrows.

1529
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:44,519
Speaker 3: That's how I was thinking about it, Basically, a crowd

1530
01:26:44,640 --> 01:26:47,400
Speaker 3: pleasing turn one where he's playing a little bit with

1531
01:26:47,479 --> 01:26:52,360
Speaker 3: his own persona and making those famous eyebrows jump. And

1532
01:26:52,479 --> 01:26:55,320
Speaker 3: so a couple of films came to mind immediately a

1533
01:26:55,360 --> 01:26:58,679
Speaker 3: few good men that departed I put in this category,

1534
01:26:58,760 --> 01:27:03,120
Speaker 3: and of course Tim Burton's Batman, which is where I went. Now.

1535
01:27:03,920 --> 01:27:06,559
Speaker 3: Listeners might remember when we talked about our top five

1536
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:09,760
Speaker 3: Michael Keaton performances not too long ago. I put his

1537
01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:12,599
Speaker 3: turn as Bruce Wayne at number two, and I did

1538
01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:15,599
Speaker 3: go into some detail about the let's get Nuts seen

1539
01:27:16,040 --> 01:27:18,920
Speaker 3: between Keaton and Nicholson. That's probably the best moment for

1540
01:27:19,040 --> 01:27:21,280
Speaker 3: both of them. But I want to provide a little variety,

1541
01:27:21,439 --> 01:27:26,519
Speaker 3: so instead, here I'm going with another Joker confrontation moment,

1542
01:27:27,080 --> 01:27:33,480
Speaker 3: this one he has with Jack Palance's crime boss Jack. Listeners,

1543
01:27:36,120 --> 01:27:42,439
Speaker 3: maybe we can cut a deal Jack. Jack is dead,

1544
01:27:42,600 --> 01:27:49,360
Speaker 3: my friend, you can call me Joker, And as you

1545
01:27:49,439 --> 01:27:56,599
Speaker 3: can see, I'm a lot happier. I love how speaking

1546
01:27:56,640 --> 01:28:00,599
Speaker 3: of the meta and parody elements, I love how Palance

1547
01:28:00,960 --> 01:28:03,560
Speaker 3: is also doing a bit of a Nicholson impression in

1548
01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:06,880
Speaker 3: that line reading, but I do think there's more. So

1549
01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:09,080
Speaker 3: the performance is fun on that level, but I think

1550
01:28:09,160 --> 01:28:11,080
Speaker 3: this is more than a meta performance, so even one

1551
01:28:11,080 --> 01:28:13,960
Speaker 3: that's verging on self parody. I mean, yes, he gets

1552
01:28:14,280 --> 01:28:17,000
Speaker 3: as big as he ever has in Batman here in

1553
01:28:17,080 --> 01:28:21,760
Speaker 3: this scene when he's dancing around as he's shooting the cackling.

1554
01:28:22,520 --> 01:28:26,240
Speaker 3: But I would suggest it's still in service of an

1555
01:28:26,280 --> 01:28:30,240
Speaker 3: actual character, and in fact, the character that I think

1556
01:28:30,320 --> 01:28:33,719
Speaker 3: we talked about this when we did a Sacred Cow review,

1557
01:28:33,720 --> 01:28:36,120
Speaker 3: it probably was of Tim Burton's Batman. The character of

1558
01:28:36,160 --> 01:28:39,200
Speaker 3: that movie is about Nicholson's Jack Napier, the gangster who

1559
01:28:39,240 --> 01:28:42,280
Speaker 3: becomes Joker after nearly dying in a vat of acid.

1560
01:28:42,960 --> 01:28:46,080
Speaker 3: Burton's Batman is it's a story of mirror identities. You've

1561
01:28:46,120 --> 01:28:49,639
Speaker 3: got Napier slash Joker, which is a he's a funhouse

1562
01:28:49,680 --> 01:28:52,960
Speaker 3: reflection of Bruce Wayne slash Batman. Both men are broken,

1563
01:28:53,640 --> 01:28:56,200
Speaker 3: each have responded to that in a different way, and

1564
01:28:56,280 --> 01:29:00,479
Speaker 3: you have Napier embracing madness to this chaotic conclude. So

1565
01:29:01,080 --> 01:29:04,519
Speaker 3: I really think Nicholson roots even the silliest moments in

1566
01:29:04,720 --> 01:29:07,880
Speaker 3: that sensibility of who Napier is and what's happened to him.

1567
01:29:08,640 --> 01:29:11,880
Speaker 3: Maybe not when he's dancing to Prince that still doesn't

1568
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:15,400
Speaker 3: entirely work, but really most of the movie he does

1569
01:29:15,520 --> 01:29:18,560
Speaker 3: more than offer a brilliant bit of self parody. This

1570
01:29:18,720 --> 01:29:22,360
Speaker 3: is even that actually serves one of the great comic

1571
01:29:22,400 --> 01:29:26,200
Speaker 3: book characters. So I'm gonna make this one my eyebrows pick.

1572
01:29:26,520 --> 01:29:29,479
Speaker 3: You can call me joker, And yeah, he really wiggles

1573
01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:32,080
Speaker 3: those eyebrows, even under all the makeup. He manages to

1574
01:29:32,120 --> 01:29:34,280
Speaker 3: do it. But that's where I'm going at number four.

1575
01:29:34,640 --> 01:29:37,439
Speaker 2: I love it that you've started off with two of

1576
01:29:37,520 --> 01:29:43,000
Speaker 2: the all time great, super fun Nicholson scenes. And I'm

1577
01:29:43,439 --> 01:29:46,439
Speaker 2: going really serious out of the gate in small I

1578
01:29:46,479 --> 01:29:49,599
Speaker 2: don't know that you can go smaller in Nicholson's ubra.

1579
01:29:50,080 --> 01:29:52,599
Speaker 2: Then I'm going to get here with my number four

1580
01:29:52,760 --> 01:29:57,080
Speaker 2: pick and I'll pluck out my favorite line of dialogue

1581
01:29:57,160 --> 01:29:59,880
Speaker 2: here or the identifier. If you were mine, I would

1582
01:30:00,160 --> 01:30:03,639
Speaker 2: share you with anyone or anything from Warren Batty's Reds,

1583
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:10,360
Speaker 2: yet another Oscar nominated turn Best Supporting Actor Oscar nominated

1584
01:30:10,479 --> 01:30:13,760
Speaker 2: turn that he did not win. And this is a

1585
01:30:13,920 --> 01:30:17,320
Speaker 2: romantic turn. You've got one, I've got one as well.

1586
01:30:17,400 --> 01:30:22,160
Speaker 2: He's playing Eugene O'Neil, the Eugene O'Neil in this true

1587
01:30:22,200 --> 01:30:25,840
Speaker 2: story or based on a true story film that Warren

1588
01:30:25,920 --> 01:30:31,599
Speaker 2: Batty directed. Despite that Oscar nomination, I know that there

1589
01:30:31,680 --> 01:30:34,760
Speaker 2: are a lot of other films and roles people more

1590
01:30:34,840 --> 01:30:39,519
Speaker 2: closely identify with Nicholson, especially when they hear what I'm

1591
01:30:39,600 --> 01:30:43,559
Speaker 2: leaving out. I don't care. I love Reds. I love

1592
01:30:43,680 --> 01:30:47,400
Speaker 2: Nicholson in Reds, where we get what I'm calling Josh

1593
01:30:48,479 --> 01:30:53,960
Speaker 2: Piercing Jack Baby is a journalist and a communist activist

1594
01:30:54,200 --> 01:30:56,560
Speaker 2: John Reid. He's in a relationship with a writer and

1595
01:30:56,600 --> 01:30:59,479
Speaker 2: activist Louise Bryant, played by Diane Keaton. O'Neil is the

1596
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:02,679
Speaker 2: play right who was friends with the couple, and Brian

1597
01:31:02,840 --> 01:31:06,439
Speaker 2: acted in one of his plays and he was or

1598
01:31:06,840 --> 01:31:09,600
Speaker 2: in this scene. He is in love with Brian. So

1599
01:31:09,760 --> 01:31:12,960
Speaker 2: this scene between O'Neill and Bryant, it's about five minutes long,

1600
01:31:13,320 --> 01:31:17,719
Speaker 2: and it opens with Nicholson delivering maybe the greatest, slash

1601
01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:23,599
Speaker 2: harshest bit of feedback an actor could ever receive. Brian says,

1602
01:31:23,760 --> 01:31:24,559
Speaker 2: I like your play.

1603
01:31:25,000 --> 01:31:25,800
Speaker 7: I like your play.

1604
01:31:27,040 --> 01:31:29,040
Speaker 8: I only hope I can do the part justice.

1605
01:31:29,960 --> 01:31:31,800
Speaker 12: I think your dialogue is beautiful.

1606
01:31:31,400 --> 01:31:31,920
Speaker 7: I really do.

1607
01:31:32,040 --> 01:31:32,400
Speaker 14: I like it.

1608
01:31:32,479 --> 01:31:34,439
Speaker 6: And why the hell don't you just stand still and

1609
01:31:34,600 --> 01:31:36,719
Speaker 6: say it instead of wandering all over the stage.

1610
01:31:36,760 --> 01:31:38,560
Speaker 10: You're supposed to be looking for your soul.

1611
01:31:38,439 --> 01:31:39,280
Speaker 3: Not an ash tray.

1612
01:31:39,920 --> 01:31:41,080
Speaker 7: Didn't smoke do yours? Rather?

1613
01:31:41,160 --> 01:31:43,519
Speaker 10: You went up in flames than put out your cigarette

1614
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:45,200
Speaker 10: in the middle of a monologue about birth.

1615
01:31:45,280 --> 01:31:49,280
Speaker 2: I'm sorry now that may be familiar that response there

1616
01:31:49,400 --> 01:31:54,320
Speaker 2: from O'Neill from Nicholson to longtime listeners, because that has

1617
01:31:54,360 --> 01:31:57,439
Speaker 2: been used over the years. That's a Massacre theater clip

1618
01:31:57,840 --> 01:32:01,680
Speaker 2: that I worked into our Messa Theater music. But just

1619
01:32:01,760 --> 01:32:05,360
Speaker 2: can you imagine saying to someone, you're supposed to be

1620
01:32:05,479 --> 01:32:09,599
Speaker 2: looking for your soul, not an ashtray, and I'd rather

1621
01:32:09,760 --> 01:32:12,440
Speaker 2: you went up in flames than put out your cigarette

1622
01:32:12,479 --> 01:32:15,240
Speaker 2: in the middle of a monologue about birth. A little harsh,

1623
01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:21,960
Speaker 2: and he doesn't take a breath, it seems, while delivering it.

1624
01:32:22,400 --> 01:32:25,519
Speaker 2: And yes he does it following his own direction. He's

1625
01:32:25,560 --> 01:32:28,640
Speaker 2: standing still, he delivers it directly in front of her,

1626
01:32:28,920 --> 01:32:32,799
Speaker 2: he's not wandering all over the set, and he's so quiet.

1627
01:32:33,280 --> 01:32:35,439
Speaker 2: They have the type of relationship where he can be

1628
01:32:35,560 --> 01:32:38,360
Speaker 2: that candid though without hurting her. That's what makes this

1629
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:41,519
Speaker 2: scene so much fun to watch in its own way

1630
01:32:42,120 --> 01:32:44,719
Speaker 2: and so fascinating to watch. Candor is what this scene

1631
01:32:44,760 --> 01:32:48,120
Speaker 2: in this relationship is all about. O'Neill is not allowing

1632
01:32:49,040 --> 01:32:53,680
Speaker 2: any ambiguity around what he feels, and he's being really vulnerable,

1633
01:32:54,400 --> 01:32:57,000
Speaker 2: and he's forcing her to be vulnerable. Whether she's ready

1634
01:32:57,040 --> 01:33:00,880
Speaker 2: to be or not. And as always we list these

1635
01:33:00,920 --> 01:33:03,240
Speaker 2: scenes and when we have links to them, we usually do.

1636
01:33:03,640 --> 01:33:06,080
Speaker 2: We put the links as well on our top five page.

1637
01:33:06,080 --> 01:33:08,000
Speaker 2: So you can go to filmspoting dot net click on

1638
01:33:08,160 --> 01:33:10,920
Speaker 2: lists you'll find these lists. And I just really encourage you.

1639
01:33:10,960 --> 01:33:12,680
Speaker 2: We're not gonna play the whole scene. I encourage you

1640
01:33:12,720 --> 01:33:14,160
Speaker 2: if you haven't seen it, or you don't remember it,

1641
01:33:14,240 --> 01:33:16,599
Speaker 2: or it's been a while, watch this entire five minute

1642
01:33:16,600 --> 01:33:19,479
Speaker 2: scene because it feels as finally written to me Josh

1643
01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:23,599
Speaker 2: and performed as aside from any O'Neill play, We're gonna

1644
01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:26,840
Speaker 2: jump ahead closer to the end. O'Neil confronts her about Jack,

1645
01:33:26,880 --> 01:33:28,840
Speaker 2: about John Reid running off to do his things and

1646
01:33:28,960 --> 01:33:32,879
Speaker 2: leaving her alone to do her things, which he O'Neil

1647
01:33:32,960 --> 01:33:33,960
Speaker 2: doesn't approve of.

1648
01:33:34,680 --> 01:33:36,960
Speaker 10: He's a real mean son of a bitch, isn't he?

1649
01:33:38,000 --> 01:33:40,960
Speaker 10: What do you mean leaving you alone with your work?

1650
01:33:42,360 --> 01:33:43,080
Speaker 7: You think I'm mine?

1651
01:33:44,040 --> 01:33:48,200
Speaker 3: You should so one thing we mustn't be left alone with.

1652
01:33:48,560 --> 01:33:49,880
Speaker 7: You may feel that way, I don't.

1653
01:33:50,200 --> 01:33:50,400
Speaker 14: Good.

1654
01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:53,840
Speaker 10: Don't let those village radicals keep you from being what

1655
01:33:54,040 --> 01:33:54,519
Speaker 10: you should be.

1656
01:33:55,840 --> 01:33:56,800
Speaker 9: What do you think I should be.

1657
01:33:58,439 --> 01:33:59,599
Speaker 3: The center of attention.

1658
01:34:01,439 --> 01:34:03,439
Speaker 10: Well, you must have been with some very competitive women.

1659
01:34:04,680 --> 01:34:09,000
Speaker 11: Let's just say possessive, possessive at something else.

1660
01:34:09,439 --> 01:34:10,360
Speaker 7: It's a waste of time.

1661
01:34:11,880 --> 01:34:14,920
Speaker 2: I'm not you can't see it, of course, But when

1662
01:34:15,200 --> 01:34:19,719
Speaker 2: she says she's not possessive, we get a fantastic cutaway

1663
01:34:20,479 --> 01:34:24,400
Speaker 2: to a devilish Nicholson smirk. And what you were talking

1664
01:34:24,439 --> 01:34:29,040
Speaker 2: about with your last scene the eyebrow arch and go

1665
01:34:29,200 --> 01:34:31,880
Speaker 2: back to what I said about the volume and how

1666
01:34:32,000 --> 01:34:34,240
Speaker 2: quiet the scene is. We do think of Jack so

1667
01:34:34,400 --> 01:34:37,160
Speaker 2: often as this big performer, and the more piercing he

1668
01:34:37,360 --> 01:34:40,840
Speaker 2: gets with her, the quieter he gets. It's almost like

1669
01:34:41,520 --> 01:34:44,840
Speaker 2: he's softening the blow because he knows his words are

1670
01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:49,800
Speaker 2: going to get harsher and harsher. He's also countering her

1671
01:34:50,120 --> 01:34:52,800
Speaker 2: because she's getting a little bit louder and louder. He's

1672
01:34:52,880 --> 01:34:56,400
Speaker 2: getting more agitated the more piercing he's being with her.

1673
01:34:56,640 --> 01:34:59,400
Speaker 2: And you know, I credit the writing for these layers.

1674
01:34:59,560 --> 01:35:02,760
Speaker 2: Baby and Trevor Griffiths are the credited screenwriters. But the

1675
01:35:02,880 --> 01:35:10,240
Speaker 2: way Nicholson so wonderfully blends self righteousness and sarcasm with

1676
01:35:10,439 --> 01:35:13,360
Speaker 2: this earnest proclamation of his feelings.

1677
01:35:13,560 --> 01:35:17,920
Speaker 12: Like you go why because I don't want to be patronized.

1678
01:35:17,920 --> 01:35:20,160
Speaker 11: I'm sorry if you don't believe in mutual independence and

1679
01:35:20,240 --> 01:35:21,320
Speaker 11: free love and respect.

1680
01:35:21,479 --> 01:35:23,920
Speaker 10: Give me a lot of parlor socialism that you learn

1681
01:35:24,040 --> 01:35:28,040
Speaker 10: in the village. If he were mine, I wouldn't share

1682
01:35:28,080 --> 01:35:29,720
Speaker 10: you with anybody or anything.

1683
01:35:31,040 --> 01:35:33,559
Speaker 3: It would be just you and me. You'd be at

1684
01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:34,479
Speaker 3: the center of it all.

1685
01:35:35,640 --> 01:35:38,559
Speaker 2: He does it so powerfully while never doing anything more

1686
01:35:38,840 --> 01:35:43,799
Speaker 2: than standing or sitting perfectly still, with his eyes focused

1687
01:35:43,880 --> 01:35:47,280
Speaker 2: the entire time on Keaton. And that's why I labeled

1688
01:35:47,320 --> 01:35:50,880
Speaker 2: him piercing Jack, because he tells her he wants her

1689
01:35:50,960 --> 01:35:53,400
Speaker 2: to look for her soul on stage, and he is

1690
01:35:53,680 --> 01:35:59,360
Speaker 2: staring right into hers and just kind of taking her

1691
01:35:59,400 --> 01:36:04,080
Speaker 2: apart psychologically. And what is this scene really about? Ironically,

1692
01:36:04,479 --> 01:36:06,840
Speaker 2: Jack is always playing the characters, and I'm talking about

1693
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:12,440
Speaker 2: characters who can't be or are unwilling to be contained physically, emotionally, spiritually,

1694
01:36:12,760 --> 01:36:16,160
Speaker 2: And he's making the case here for a sort of

1695
01:36:16,320 --> 01:36:20,320
Speaker 2: containment as an expression of love. You can proclaim, as

1696
01:36:20,360 --> 01:36:25,400
Speaker 2: she does, to be against that notion and to respect

1697
01:36:25,479 --> 01:36:28,799
Speaker 2: and crave total freedom in a relationship. But when another

1698
01:36:28,920 --> 01:36:32,759
Speaker 2: man says and if he delivers it with the conviction

1699
01:36:32,960 --> 01:36:36,640
Speaker 2: that Jack does here. If another man says to you

1700
01:36:36,840 --> 01:36:39,439
Speaker 2: and looks at you the way he does, if you

1701
01:36:39,560 --> 01:36:42,839
Speaker 2: were mine, I wouldn't share you with anybody or anything.

1702
01:36:43,080 --> 01:36:45,599
Speaker 2: It would just be you and me. You'd be at

1703
01:36:45,640 --> 01:36:48,320
Speaker 2: the center of it all. I think you'd start to

1704
01:36:48,439 --> 01:36:52,160
Speaker 2: question some things about your beliefs. I love it.

1705
01:36:52,479 --> 01:36:54,439
Speaker 3: So I have not seen Reds, but I did watch

1706
01:36:54,560 --> 01:36:58,639
Speaker 3: this scene and it strikes me that more than any

1707
01:36:58,680 --> 01:37:01,519
Speaker 3: other performance or even sequence of his, I've seen that

1708
01:37:01,840 --> 01:37:05,480
Speaker 3: this is the only time Nicholson the persona has completely disappeared.

1709
01:37:05,720 --> 01:37:06,160
Speaker 2: It's gone.

1710
01:37:06,560 --> 01:37:09,120
Speaker 3: Maybe it's because he's playing an actual, a real life

1711
01:37:09,200 --> 01:37:12,800
Speaker 3: character and he decided I'm doing something different here and

1712
01:37:13,000 --> 01:37:17,360
Speaker 3: going to absolutely leave myself behind. I don't know if

1713
01:37:17,400 --> 01:37:19,519
Speaker 3: that was part of the process, but it did strike

1714
01:37:19,640 --> 01:37:22,639
Speaker 3: me that this is just the man in this story

1715
01:37:22,680 --> 01:37:25,120
Speaker 3: in front of me and no one else. So yeah,

1716
01:37:25,160 --> 01:37:26,880
Speaker 3: at some point I'll have to catch up with the

1717
01:37:26,960 --> 01:37:31,360
Speaker 3: performance as a whole. So we talk about when we

1718
01:37:31,479 --> 01:37:37,080
Speaker 3: do these retrospective actor liss are we doing performances? Are

1719
01:37:37,120 --> 01:37:38,680
Speaker 3: we doing scenes? And at the end of the day

1720
01:37:38,720 --> 01:37:42,600
Speaker 3: we usually say we're doing the same thing, and we

1721
01:37:42,800 --> 01:37:45,200
Speaker 3: like to do scenes because we can drill down into

1722
01:37:45,240 --> 01:37:48,960
Speaker 3: the details. But sometimes what happens is that you get

1723
01:37:49,000 --> 01:37:54,080
Speaker 3: a movie like Chinatown, and I realized great scenes in Chinatown, right,

1724
01:37:54,520 --> 01:37:58,680
Speaker 3: iconic scenes in Chinatown. But as a Nicholson scene, it's

1725
01:37:58,760 --> 01:38:02,040
Speaker 3: the performance as a hole that is so rich, and

1726
01:38:02,120 --> 01:38:05,839
Speaker 3: I had a hard time choosing one. But I wanted

1727
01:38:05,920 --> 01:38:09,439
Speaker 3: to include this part because you could say, on the

1728
01:38:09,479 --> 01:38:13,839
Speaker 3: one hand, Jake Gidtis doesn't immediately fit the nineteen seventies

1729
01:38:13,920 --> 01:38:17,519
Speaker 3: Nicholson charismatic iconoclast persona that I talked about at the top.

1730
01:38:17,840 --> 01:38:21,040
Speaker 3: Maybe it's the period setting. Maybe it's that Gideas isn't

1731
01:38:21,080 --> 01:38:23,880
Speaker 3: exactly bucking the system right. He has left the police

1732
01:38:23,920 --> 01:38:26,719
Speaker 3: force because of corruption, but he's kind of floating around

1733
01:38:26,800 --> 01:38:31,360
Speaker 3: its edges as a private detective and still involved. But

1734
01:38:31,560 --> 01:38:36,479
Speaker 3: this movie drips with the disillusionment of being helpless within

1735
01:38:36,560 --> 01:38:39,800
Speaker 3: a corrupt system. This is why it's a nineteen seventies movie,

1736
01:38:40,400 --> 01:38:43,439
Speaker 3: and it's all about Giddas, who thinks he's above that,

1737
01:38:44,080 --> 01:38:47,720
Speaker 3: coming to realize how helpless he actually is. So I

1738
01:38:47,880 --> 01:38:50,920
Speaker 3: had to have a scene from here, and thinking about

1739
01:38:51,000 --> 01:38:54,120
Speaker 3: some of them, I decided to go with an early one.

1740
01:38:54,640 --> 01:38:57,800
Speaker 3: This is before his helplessness really starts to sink in

1741
01:38:57,920 --> 01:39:02,200
Speaker 3: for him, and Gidea's is still Hockey really sure of himself.

1742
01:39:02,560 --> 01:39:05,720
Speaker 3: So he's telling this crude, racist joke to his two

1743
01:39:05,760 --> 01:39:09,080
Speaker 3: employees in his office, not realizing that fade on Away's

1744
01:39:09,120 --> 01:39:12,600
Speaker 3: Evelyn mulray is standing behind him. Well, just listen to

1745
01:39:12,680 --> 01:39:15,599
Speaker 3: me for a second. We love this now.

1746
01:39:16,520 --> 01:39:18,519
Speaker 6: Then they go back and they screw a little bit more.

1747
01:39:18,840 --> 01:39:21,120
Speaker 6: And then they go out and they contemplate the moon

1748
01:39:21,280 --> 01:39:24,080
Speaker 6: or something like that makes it more exciting. So now

1749
01:39:24,640 --> 01:39:27,320
Speaker 6: the guy goes home and he starts screwing his own life.

1750
01:39:27,439 --> 01:39:29,479
Speaker 3: See, So he screws her for a little.

1751
01:39:29,320 --> 01:39:30,760
Speaker 6: Bit, and then he stops and he goes out of

1752
01:39:30,800 --> 01:39:33,639
Speaker 6: the room and he reads Life magazine. Then he goes

1753
01:39:33,680 --> 01:39:36,000
Speaker 6: back in, he starts screwing again. He says, excuse me

1754
01:39:36,120 --> 01:39:37,839
Speaker 6: for a minute, honey. He goes out and he smokes

1755
01:39:37,840 --> 01:39:40,400
Speaker 6: a cigarette. Now his wife is getting sore as hell.

1756
01:39:41,080 --> 01:39:43,040
Speaker 6: He comes back in the room, he starts screwing again.

1757
01:39:43,080 --> 01:39:44,560
Speaker 6: He gets up to start to leave again to go

1758
01:39:44,600 --> 01:39:45,080
Speaker 6: look at the moon.

1759
01:39:45,160 --> 01:39:46,400
Speaker 3: She looks at and says, hey, what's.

1760
01:39:46,280 --> 01:39:46,840
Speaker 1: The matter with you?

1761
01:39:46,840 --> 01:39:58,280
Speaker 3: You're screwing just like a chinaman. So smart of Robert

1762
01:39:58,320 --> 01:40:03,200
Speaker 3: Town's genius screenplay to undercut Giddi's in this comical and

1763
01:40:03,600 --> 01:40:07,840
Speaker 3: somewhat quiet way early on because it's setting everything up

1764
01:40:08,240 --> 01:40:12,320
Speaker 3: for what's to come and this character's downfall, and Nicholson

1765
01:40:12,439 --> 01:40:15,160
Speaker 3: is totally in sync with the deconstruction of this character.

1766
01:40:15,560 --> 01:40:17,479
Speaker 3: I think that's why he's playing the scene this way,

1767
01:40:17,520 --> 01:40:20,560
Speaker 3: and what I do like about it from a performance perspective,

1768
01:40:20,640 --> 01:40:25,160
Speaker 3: he is dialing the charisma up almost to a clownish degree, right.

1769
01:40:25,240 --> 01:40:29,639
Speaker 3: He's taking Getty's past that we admire or are kind

1770
01:40:29,680 --> 01:40:34,320
Speaker 3: of like attracted to his iconoclast. Here we're kind of like,

1771
01:40:35,040 --> 01:40:38,000
Speaker 3: even before we realize that Evelyn mulray is behind him,

1772
01:40:38,000 --> 01:40:39,880
Speaker 3: we're kind of embarrassed for him, Like, this is an

1773
01:40:39,880 --> 01:40:42,280
Speaker 3: awful story. It's not even that funny.

1774
01:40:42,439 --> 01:40:43,360
Speaker 2: It's not even that funny.

1775
01:40:43,479 --> 01:40:46,280
Speaker 3: You're over selling it. And now she's hearing it, and

1776
01:40:46,680 --> 01:40:49,920
Speaker 3: you know, Nicholson is willing to push it that far,

1777
01:40:50,240 --> 01:40:53,719
Speaker 3: preparing us again forget its fall, so that when it happens,

1778
01:40:53,960 --> 01:40:55,840
Speaker 3: what does that mean? It's not only a matter of plot,

1779
01:40:56,240 --> 01:40:59,200
Speaker 3: it's a matter of performance. So I'm going to go

1780
01:40:59,320 --> 01:41:01,240
Speaker 3: with the bad joke in Chinatown.

1781
01:41:01,479 --> 01:41:03,960
Speaker 2: It's such a good point that you began with, because

1782
01:41:04,000 --> 01:41:07,200
Speaker 2: that's the dilemma. I love this film. It's in our pantheon.

1783
01:41:07,479 --> 01:41:11,560
Speaker 2: I love this performance as Jake Gettis. I couldn't pinpoint

1784
01:41:11,680 --> 01:41:14,120
Speaker 2: the defining scene, and that's why I don't have one here,

1785
01:41:14,280 --> 01:41:16,120
Speaker 2: but this is one I did strongly consider. I have

1786
01:41:16,160 --> 01:41:20,360
Speaker 2: a couple honorable mentions, and my favorite part might be

1787
01:41:20,880 --> 01:41:24,400
Speaker 2: after he turns around and finally Caesar. He then turns

1788
01:41:24,479 --> 01:41:28,240
Speaker 2: and gives his two associates a look that's like, why

1789
01:41:28,280 --> 01:41:30,559
Speaker 2: didn't you stop me? Even though of course they did.

1790
01:41:30,760 --> 01:41:35,080
Speaker 2: They tried and they did try. And then I looked

1791
01:41:35,120 --> 01:41:37,880
Speaker 2: at my notes and back when we discussed this, I

1792
01:41:38,000 --> 01:41:41,360
Speaker 2: pointed out, you know, you were discussing that we see

1793
01:41:41,479 --> 01:41:45,320
Speaker 2: that he is not as sharp as he thinks he is.

1794
01:41:45,680 --> 01:41:50,600
Speaker 2: That we know that he is a bit of a

1795
01:41:51,200 --> 01:41:55,320
Speaker 2: if not a hypocrite, he is someone who is constantly

1796
01:41:55,439 --> 01:41:58,560
Speaker 2: undercutting himself. And just a scene or two before, he

1797
01:41:58,720 --> 01:42:01,280
Speaker 2: was telling one of those associates it's how important it

1798
01:42:01,400 --> 01:42:05,000
Speaker 2: is as a detective to have finesse yes. And what

1799
01:42:05,040 --> 01:42:07,639
Speaker 2: does Polanski then do and Town do as a screenwriter.

1800
01:42:07,920 --> 01:42:09,880
Speaker 2: He walks him into a scene like this where he

1801
01:42:10,280 --> 01:42:13,960
Speaker 2: displays the least amount of finesse Maybe any of us

1802
01:42:14,040 --> 01:42:15,200
Speaker 2: have ever witnessed.

1803
01:42:15,400 --> 01:42:19,760
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, yeah, it's just good choices, smart storytelling and

1804
01:42:20,320 --> 01:42:21,879
Speaker 3: delivered upon with the great performance.

1805
01:42:22,240 --> 01:42:27,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay, number three, my number three Jack Nicholson scene.

1806
01:42:27,960 --> 01:42:31,920
Speaker 2: I am finally setting aside the low key stuff we're

1807
01:42:31,960 --> 01:42:35,599
Speaker 2: talking about Nicholson. Let's rip some shit up. It's time

1808
01:42:35,960 --> 01:42:41,760
Speaker 2: for ornery Jack. I'm going to the last detail. Take

1809
01:42:41,800 --> 01:42:45,160
Speaker 2: a poke at me. This film, of course, is about

1810
01:42:45,479 --> 01:42:51,320
Speaker 2: Nicholson as Badass Badusky with his partner Otis Young's mule Mulhall.

1811
01:42:51,880 --> 01:42:55,639
Speaker 2: They are Navy lifers. They've been assigned to take Larry

1812
01:42:55,920 --> 01:42:58,920
Speaker 2: played by Randy Quaid to prison in New Hampshire from

1813
01:43:01,120 --> 01:43:04,160
Speaker 2: I'm not choosing here right the I am the effing

1814
01:43:04,240 --> 01:43:06,640
Speaker 2: shore Patrol scene, that famous one, but I need to

1815
01:43:06,680 --> 01:43:10,120
Speaker 2: reference it, Josh, because it's the setup to my scene.

1816
01:43:10,400 --> 01:43:13,000
Speaker 2: They go to a little dive bar. They're trying to

1817
01:43:13,600 --> 01:43:19,080
Speaker 2: school this poor innocent, naive young young boy really that

1818
01:43:19,240 --> 01:43:21,920
Speaker 2: Quait is playing, and they try to buy Larry a beer,

1819
01:43:22,000 --> 01:43:24,160
Speaker 2: but he's under age and the bartender won't serve him,

1820
01:43:24,439 --> 01:43:28,240
Speaker 2: and that leads to Badass absolutely losing his mind, but

1821
01:43:28,360 --> 01:43:31,439
Speaker 2: it doesn't lead to Larry getting a beer. After that,

1822
01:43:32,479 --> 01:43:35,719
Speaker 2: the three men are back at their motel. Clearly Badass

1823
01:43:35,840 --> 01:43:38,400
Speaker 2: has picked up some beer along the way, and he

1824
01:43:38,479 --> 01:43:41,559
Speaker 2: and Muele have definitely had a few. And Larry wants

1825
01:43:41,600 --> 01:43:43,400
Speaker 2: to know why they got so mad at the bartender.

1826
01:43:43,720 --> 01:43:46,840
Speaker 2: He was just doing his job, he says. Badass wonders

1827
01:43:46,880 --> 01:43:49,519
Speaker 2: whether Larry has ever gotten mad at anyone. As that

1828
01:43:49,680 --> 01:43:54,120
Speaker 2: conversation continues, Badass gets more and more irritated with Larry,

1829
01:43:54,479 --> 01:43:58,320
Speaker 2: and not just with Larry, but on Larry's behalf.

1830
01:43:58,760 --> 01:44:01,599
Speaker 11: They're gonna take a years out of your life, man,

1831
01:44:02,080 --> 01:44:03,519
Speaker 11: six years, you said, six?

1832
01:44:04,080 --> 01:44:07,080
Speaker 3: Hey, what the difference does it make? You don't even

1833
01:44:07,200 --> 01:44:07,840
Speaker 3: care about it?

1834
01:44:09,479 --> 01:44:12,200
Speaker 5: Comes and don't help him?

1835
01:44:12,640 --> 01:44:16,240
Speaker 10: Help I mean fairing justice.

1836
01:44:16,960 --> 01:44:19,040
Speaker 6: Don't you ever just want to blump and stomp on

1837
01:44:19,160 --> 01:44:20,880
Speaker 6: someone to bite off there where you're just to do it,

1838
01:44:20,920 --> 01:44:22,400
Speaker 6: I mean, just to do it, just to get it

1839
01:44:22,439 --> 01:44:23,280
Speaker 6: out of your system.

1840
01:44:24,560 --> 01:44:29,080
Speaker 2: I love Nicholson's physicality, which you might be able to

1841
01:44:29,160 --> 01:44:32,479
Speaker 2: feel coming through your headphones or speakers because you can't

1842
01:44:32,560 --> 01:44:35,840
Speaker 2: see it. When he says, just to do it, just

1843
01:44:35,920 --> 01:44:38,040
Speaker 2: to get it out of your system. Even though he's

1844
01:44:38,040 --> 01:44:42,840
Speaker 2: sitting down, he's almost acting out the thrill of laying

1845
01:44:42,960 --> 01:44:46,360
Speaker 2: in to someone. What that electricity, what that charge feels

1846
01:44:46,439 --> 01:44:49,320
Speaker 2: like we feel it as he explains it. And then

1847
01:44:49,400 --> 01:44:52,759
Speaker 2: when Larry admits that he did get mad at something

1848
01:44:52,840 --> 01:44:57,360
Speaker 2: once and Badass asks him if the grunts beat him up,

1849
01:44:57,800 --> 01:45:01,360
Speaker 2: he gets that Nicholson twinkle in his eye, like, oh,

1850
01:45:01,640 --> 01:45:05,800
Speaker 2: finally something good is coming. I can't wait to hear this.

1851
01:45:06,800 --> 01:45:10,599
Speaker 2: But his answer completely disappoints.

1852
01:45:10,720 --> 01:45:15,120
Speaker 11: This marine guard. He asked me if I'm believed in

1853
01:45:15,280 --> 01:45:20,760
Speaker 11: Jesus Christ. I said yeah, and he said that from

1854
01:45:20,840 --> 01:45:24,200
Speaker 11: now on he was Jesus Christ, and then I shouldn't

1855
01:45:24,240 --> 01:45:24,960
Speaker 11: ever forget it.

1856
01:45:25,760 --> 01:45:26,320
Speaker 3: What did you do?

1857
01:45:28,320 --> 01:45:29,000
Speaker 13: Do you hear him?

1858
01:45:29,840 --> 01:45:29,960
Speaker 3: Now?

1859
01:45:30,000 --> 01:45:31,000
Speaker 11: Can you imagine that?

1860
01:45:31,280 --> 01:45:32,000
Speaker 14: That's awful?

1861
01:45:33,240 --> 01:45:34,800
Speaker 10: It's your cold cocky.

1862
01:45:37,120 --> 01:45:38,920
Speaker 11: Better hope to chap and don't catch him with.

1863
01:45:38,960 --> 01:45:43,000
Speaker 2: That hal ashby film Robert town here again on the

1864
01:45:43,000 --> 01:45:47,720
Speaker 2: screenplay with Darryl Ponixon Badass like the bartender Josh. He's

1865
01:45:47,800 --> 01:45:51,519
Speaker 2: just doing his job taking Larry to jail. He's putting

1866
01:45:51,600 --> 01:45:55,080
Speaker 2: him away though he's taking away his freedom and he

1867
01:45:55,160 --> 01:45:58,120
Speaker 2: doesn't like it. And Larry, the guy who's having his

1868
01:45:58,200 --> 01:46:03,080
Speaker 2: freedom taken away, can't muster a single bit of anger

1869
01:46:03,400 --> 01:46:06,680
Speaker 2: about it, or towards Badass for it, or towards the

1870
01:46:06,720 --> 01:46:11,720
Speaker 2: military or anybody Badass is angrier at himself clearly than

1871
01:46:11,800 --> 01:46:14,160
Speaker 2: Larry is at him, which is where that rage I

1872
01:46:14,240 --> 01:46:18,920
Speaker 2: think is coming from. And that rage against being confined

1873
01:46:19,720 --> 01:46:23,479
Speaker 2: physically or by society's rules, that feeling sometimes like you

1874
01:46:23,680 --> 01:46:26,000
Speaker 2: just need to get it out of your system. That

1875
01:46:26,200 --> 01:46:30,240
Speaker 2: feels to me like what Nicholson fundamentally represents as an actor,

1876
01:46:30,439 --> 01:46:31,880
Speaker 2: and with the choices that he makes.

1877
01:46:32,240 --> 01:46:36,280
Speaker 3: The last detail was my personal discovery in doing homework

1878
01:46:36,320 --> 01:46:38,519
Speaker 3: for this list, meaning the movie I knew I should

1879
01:46:38,560 --> 01:46:41,920
Speaker 3: have watched, you know, probably decades ago at this point,

1880
01:46:42,120 --> 01:46:45,360
Speaker 3: because once I finally did, I realized, Yeah, how good

1881
01:46:45,400 --> 01:46:47,200
Speaker 3: it was. I think for our Hackman list, I put

1882
01:46:47,240 --> 01:46:51,320
Speaker 3: Scarecrow in this category. Yeah, incredible film. And this scene

1883
01:46:51,360 --> 01:46:55,439
Speaker 3: you're talking about, Adam, I think is particularly important in

1884
01:46:55,600 --> 01:46:58,120
Speaker 3: thinking of Nicholson, not only the terms you described, which

1885
01:46:58,160 --> 01:47:01,640
Speaker 3: I'd agree with, but also as having political relevance in

1886
01:47:01,680 --> 01:47:05,240
Speaker 3: the nineteen seventies, because you know that bit about just

1887
01:47:05,320 --> 01:47:07,360
Speaker 3: to do it, just to get it out of your system.

1888
01:47:08,080 --> 01:47:11,760
Speaker 3: You read about we were obviously not around then, but

1889
01:47:11,880 --> 01:47:15,320
Speaker 3: you read about this sense of impotent anger that was

1890
01:47:15,360 --> 01:47:18,000
Speaker 3: a hallmark of the Nixon years, right, And I think

1891
01:47:18,120 --> 01:47:20,880
Speaker 3: Nicholson in a number of his performances, but here is

1892
01:47:20,920 --> 01:47:26,200
Speaker 3: Badski is fiendishly channeling that. And I think this is

1893
01:47:26,560 --> 01:47:29,840
Speaker 3: evidence by where the movie ends, because it is another

1894
01:47:30,000 --> 01:47:35,160
Speaker 3: case of pushing the walls against the walls, bucking the system,

1895
01:47:36,120 --> 01:47:39,519
Speaker 3: and only getting so far right and kind of ending

1896
01:47:39,600 --> 01:47:43,120
Speaker 3: on this point, this moment of impotence. And that's what's

1897
01:47:43,240 --> 01:47:47,040
Speaker 3: interesting to me about Billy Badass Badoski is that he

1898
01:47:47,479 --> 01:47:50,040
Speaker 3: is yes, and I'll get to my number two pick

1899
01:47:50,120 --> 01:47:52,400
Speaker 3: here because it is coming from the last detail. He

1900
01:47:52,760 --> 01:47:57,679
Speaker 3: is a quintessential charismatic iconoclast of Nicholson's right. Think about

1901
01:47:57,720 --> 01:48:00,960
Speaker 3: he even choose his gum rebelliously. He choose his gum

1902
01:48:01,080 --> 01:48:04,400
Speaker 3: like he's insulting the person who's watching him chew his

1903
01:48:04,479 --> 01:48:07,759
Speaker 3: gum somehow. But he's bucking the system from the inside

1904
01:48:07,920 --> 01:48:11,400
Speaker 3: right as you described. He's this Navy signalman, and so

1905
01:48:11,520 --> 01:48:14,040
Speaker 3: the question is how far can you really push things

1906
01:48:14,640 --> 01:48:17,400
Speaker 3: if you're a cog in the machine. That's where some

1907
01:48:17,560 --> 01:48:20,840
Speaker 3: of the rage comes from, too, I think is Boduski's

1908
01:48:21,320 --> 01:48:24,439
Speaker 3: awareness of that. And so this is a guy who

1909
01:48:24,800 --> 01:48:29,360
Speaker 3: is not sure who he is or where he should be,

1910
01:48:30,120 --> 01:48:34,080
Speaker 3: but feels like McMurphy does in Cuckoo's Nest that it's

1911
01:48:34,240 --> 01:48:37,800
Speaker 3: not in his control anyway in a sense. And so

1912
01:48:38,680 --> 01:48:41,479
Speaker 3: the scene I want to pick is when he says,

1913
01:48:41,800 --> 01:48:45,439
Speaker 3: I am the Badass. This is early on and he's

1914
01:48:45,560 --> 01:48:49,000
Speaker 3: talking about how he got this badass nickname.

1915
01:48:49,479 --> 01:48:51,599
Speaker 10: I always used to have trouble with my name too,

1916
01:48:54,520 --> 01:48:58,400
Speaker 10: bodestime always wanted to call me.

1917
01:48:58,600 --> 01:49:02,040
Speaker 2: Badass, badass.

1918
01:49:04,960 --> 01:49:05,479
Speaker 11: I am the.

1919
01:49:05,560 --> 01:49:08,200
Speaker 10: Badass bad Ass.

1920
01:49:09,080 --> 01:49:12,040
Speaker 3: Another case, Adam, I think of the levels of performance

1921
01:49:12,160 --> 01:49:14,880
Speaker 3: going on. This has come up a couple times. I

1922
01:49:14,960 --> 01:49:17,280
Speaker 3: think you mentioned it in Cuckoo's Nest, and that is

1923
01:49:17,280 --> 01:49:20,080
Speaker 3: a dual performance. I think as joker, he's giving a

1924
01:49:20,200 --> 01:49:23,840
Speaker 3: dual performance. And here you see we're getting performances from

1925
01:49:23,920 --> 01:49:28,479
Speaker 3: Nicholson as an actor and then Buski playing a tough guy.

1926
01:49:28,960 --> 01:49:30,880
Speaker 3: On some level, this goes back to the chewing of

1927
01:49:30,920 --> 01:49:33,840
Speaker 3: the gum. As he's telling this story, he's making fun

1928
01:49:33,920 --> 01:49:36,559
Speaker 3: of the choice of his nickname. Right, He's rebelling against

1929
01:49:36,600 --> 01:49:39,840
Speaker 3: his own nickname that other people gave him, kind of

1930
01:49:39,920 --> 01:49:43,040
Speaker 3: laughing at it, but at the same moment he's embracing

1931
01:49:43,120 --> 01:49:45,840
Speaker 3: it and kind of reveling in it. The brilliance of

1932
01:49:45,880 --> 01:49:47,800
Speaker 3: the scene is you can feel that push and pull

1933
01:49:48,320 --> 01:49:50,759
Speaker 3: as it goes on the number of times in different

1934
01:49:50,800 --> 01:49:53,639
Speaker 3: ways he says badass. It's like he's mulling it over

1935
01:49:53,760 --> 01:49:57,120
Speaker 3: for himself, trying it on for himself, seeing how he

1936
01:49:57,280 --> 01:49:59,840
Speaker 3: feels about it, but not wanting to commit to it.

1937
01:50:00,479 --> 01:50:04,840
Speaker 3: It's just an incredible movement of persona here in a

1938
01:50:04,920 --> 01:50:07,720
Speaker 3: small scene. And of course later in the film you

1939
01:50:07,840 --> 01:50:11,280
Speaker 3: talked about the bartender sequence. What does he say back

1940
01:50:11,360 --> 01:50:14,360
Speaker 3: on the street full of adrenaline, I am a badass

1941
01:50:14,479 --> 01:50:17,960
Speaker 3: A and I that's it's almost like, now I believe

1942
01:50:18,000 --> 01:50:20,519
Speaker 3: it about myself, and this is what I'm gonna commit to.

1943
01:50:20,800 --> 01:50:23,439
Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm going with I Am the Badass as

1944
01:50:23,960 --> 01:50:25,200
Speaker 3: my pick at number two.

1945
01:50:25,640 --> 01:50:30,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such a good articulation of who he is

1946
01:50:30,360 --> 01:50:32,720
Speaker 2: in that sense of impotent rage. You're right, because it's

1947
01:50:32,760 --> 01:50:34,479
Speaker 2: a movie I haven't seen in a long time but

1948
01:50:34,680 --> 01:50:38,240
Speaker 2: really love, and that entire scene that I picked, You're right,

1949
01:50:38,479 --> 01:50:42,599
Speaker 2: it's an expression of that the bar he raises such

1950
01:50:42,640 --> 01:50:45,960
Speaker 2: a ruckus. It doesn't succeed in anything. They end up

1951
01:50:46,000 --> 01:50:48,080
Speaker 2: having to leave. They don't have any success. And for

1952
01:50:48,240 --> 01:50:51,920
Speaker 2: all of the shouting and for everything he yells about

1953
01:50:52,080 --> 01:50:56,000
Speaker 2: there and tries to get Larry to do. It just

1954
01:50:56,200 --> 01:50:58,960
Speaker 2: ends with resignation, right, resignation.

1955
01:50:58,600 --> 01:51:02,680
Speaker 3: And them doing the job assigned, which that fundamentally disagrees with.

1956
01:51:02,880 --> 01:51:08,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, onto my number two and we're here over

1957
01:51:09,280 --> 01:51:14,160
Speaker 2: the top. Jack had to be here. I mentioned as

1958
01:51:14,200 --> 01:51:17,960
Speaker 2: you did the eyebrows earlier. I'm not breaking any news here,

1959
01:51:18,240 --> 01:51:22,760
Speaker 2: but man, what a tool for the actor's toolbox. That

1960
01:51:23,080 --> 01:51:28,560
Speaker 2: peak that they both have, that make them arch so demonstratively.

1961
01:51:28,680 --> 01:51:30,559
Speaker 2: And then of course when you turn into the Joker

1962
01:51:30,600 --> 01:51:33,360
Speaker 2: and you've got the mouth to match it. Right, But

1963
01:51:34,360 --> 01:51:39,400
Speaker 2: in the shining this scene, the bar scene, a momentary

1964
01:51:39,560 --> 01:51:44,040
Speaker 2: loss of muscular coordination. This scene, you could watch it

1965
01:51:44,640 --> 01:51:49,080
Speaker 2: again and again and just stare at his eyebrows. I

1966
01:51:49,120 --> 01:51:51,479
Speaker 2: think we talked about this a bit during our Sacred

1967
01:51:51,560 --> 01:51:55,599
Speaker 2: Cow review a few years back. The thing about Nicholson's performance,

1968
01:51:55,920 --> 01:51:58,760
Speaker 2: for as gargantuan as it is, it never to me

1969
01:51:59,600 --> 01:52:04,519
Speaker 2: feel wrong for the movie because Nicholson is capable of

1970
01:52:04,640 --> 01:52:08,800
Speaker 2: the theatrics. For one, because the force of Kubrick's filmmaking

1971
01:52:09,640 --> 01:52:14,320
Speaker 2: and what we think is inhabiting this space, this force

1972
01:52:14,880 --> 01:52:19,760
Speaker 2: needs to be reflected and expressed in a force like Nicholson.

1973
01:52:20,000 --> 01:52:24,120
Speaker 2: For another, And while I'm not suggesting that the Jack

1974
01:52:24,240 --> 01:52:27,160
Speaker 2: Torrance going into the overlook, the one who enters the

1975
01:52:27,200 --> 01:52:31,320
Speaker 2: overlook is the monster he becomes once he's there, all

1976
01:52:31,439 --> 01:52:34,360
Speaker 2: of the guilt and the feelings of insecurity as a

1977
01:52:34,439 --> 01:52:41,120
Speaker 2: husband father. Provider writer that the Overlook exploits They're all

1978
01:52:41,320 --> 01:52:45,840
Speaker 2: there under the surface. So this isn't some progression. It's

1979
01:52:45,880 --> 01:52:49,600
Speaker 2: not a gradual dissent. It's immediate and it's immense. And

1980
01:52:49,800 --> 01:52:53,439
Speaker 2: that's what Nicholson is able to give us. The bar

1981
01:52:53,560 --> 01:52:56,760
Speaker 2: scene is the confession. It is the expression of all

1982
01:52:56,880 --> 01:52:59,800
Speaker 2: of those anxieties and shortcomings. And to go back to

1983
01:52:59,840 --> 01:53:04,000
Speaker 2: my theme of freedom here, it's the expression of his imprisonment.

1984
01:53:04,880 --> 01:53:08,720
Speaker 2: He's trapped at the overlook. But more than that, he

1985
01:53:08,920 --> 01:53:13,960
Speaker 2: is entrapped in his marriage. He's trapped by his wife's

1986
01:53:14,320 --> 01:53:18,160
Speaker 2: view of him. He's stuck in this feeling of guilt.

1987
01:53:18,520 --> 01:53:21,640
Speaker 2: He's stuck in their little apartment. He's stuck in this

1988
01:53:21,920 --> 01:53:25,200
Speaker 2: career as a teacher that he doesn't want. He can't

1989
01:53:25,680 --> 01:53:29,880
Speaker 2: break out. He is maybe the biggest embodiment we have

1990
01:53:30,240 --> 01:53:34,040
Speaker 2: on either of our lists. Josh of impotent rage, isn't

1991
01:53:34,080 --> 01:53:37,160
Speaker 2: he He causes a lot of destruction and damage, but

1992
01:53:38,040 --> 01:53:41,040
Speaker 2: it's not leading to what the character, at least the

1993
01:53:41,120 --> 01:53:45,160
Speaker 2: character coming into the overlook wants to achieve. And where

1994
01:53:45,200 --> 01:53:48,360
Speaker 2: it gets really amazing from a performance standpoint for me,

1995
01:53:48,640 --> 01:53:52,480
Speaker 2: and look, I'll say I think it's all terrifyingly delightful

1996
01:53:53,360 --> 01:53:57,200
Speaker 2: is when he admits to hurting Danny, and it culminates

1997
01:53:57,280 --> 01:54:01,840
Speaker 2: with that line that I mentioned, the scenes most famous line,

1998
01:54:03,080 --> 01:54:03,759
Speaker 2: I didn't.

1999
01:54:03,600 --> 01:54:04,200
Speaker 14: Hurt him once.

2000
01:54:04,320 --> 01:54:13,040
Speaker 4: Okay, it was an accident, completely unintentional, could have happen

2001
01:54:13,040 --> 01:54:13,680
Speaker 4: to anybody.

2002
01:54:16,560 --> 01:54:21,559
Speaker 3: It was three goddamn years ago. A little thrown all

2003
01:54:21,600 --> 01:54:23,600
Speaker 3: my papers all over the floor. All I try to

2004
01:54:23,640 --> 01:54:24,600
Speaker 3: do was pull him up.

2005
01:54:28,320 --> 01:54:32,640
Speaker 11: The momentary loss of muscular coordination.

2006
01:54:33,480 --> 01:54:37,120
Speaker 5: Hmm, few strew.

2007
01:54:36,880 --> 01:54:39,920
Speaker 14: Foot pounds of energy per second.

2008
01:54:39,800 --> 01:54:40,880
Speaker 3: Per second.

2009
01:54:42,640 --> 01:54:47,200
Speaker 2: Before he says I did hurt him once. Okay, he

2010
01:54:47,360 --> 01:54:51,240
Speaker 2: looks dramatically to the left. Yeah, he looks dramatically to

2011
01:54:51,320 --> 01:54:54,200
Speaker 2: the right. And then he takes this big sigh, this

2012
01:54:54,320 --> 01:54:57,720
Speaker 2: big deep sigh, and other than the bartender, he's the

2013
01:54:57,840 --> 01:55:02,400
Speaker 2: only one there. And yet somehow Jack Torrance still feels

2014
01:55:02,480 --> 01:55:06,240
Speaker 2: the need to look around and be discreet, and then

2015
01:55:06,280 --> 01:55:09,440
Speaker 2: he basically uses jazz hands. And I don't know if

2016
01:55:09,480 --> 01:55:12,400
Speaker 2: anyone at the time thought he would make a bad Joker.

2017
01:55:12,800 --> 01:55:15,160
Speaker 2: But if they did, all you would need to do

2018
01:55:15,320 --> 01:55:18,040
Speaker 2: is point them to that scene in that moment. You'd

2019
01:55:18,080 --> 01:55:19,960
Speaker 2: be like, Oh, of course he's gonna nail this, because

2020
01:55:20,000 --> 01:55:24,480
Speaker 2: that's the Joker right when he repeats at the end

2021
01:55:25,000 --> 01:55:28,600
Speaker 2: per second that physicality again, he makes the snapping sound

2022
01:55:28,680 --> 01:55:31,160
Speaker 2: and he kind of frozes his hand in the air

2023
01:55:31,800 --> 01:55:34,280
Speaker 2: like what are you going to do, basically saying what

2024
01:55:34,320 --> 01:55:37,640
Speaker 2: are you gonna do? Those little physical embellishments, they're just

2025
01:55:37,800 --> 01:55:41,400
Speaker 2: so brilliant, and you know, he's clearly possessed. If you

2026
01:55:41,440 --> 01:55:44,040
Speaker 2: saw a man talking about his wife and child like this,

2027
01:55:44,160 --> 01:55:47,080
Speaker 2: you would think he was the most vile person ever

2028
01:55:47,480 --> 01:55:50,800
Speaker 2: without the slightest redeeming facet. And for what it's worth,

2029
01:55:51,080 --> 01:55:53,640
Speaker 2: that afi Villain's list, that nurse Ratchet is number five

2030
01:55:53,680 --> 01:55:57,680
Speaker 2: on Jack Torrance's number twenty five. But here's the brilliance

2031
01:55:57,760 --> 01:56:00,440
Speaker 2: of Jack, and we've talked about this throughout this list.

2032
01:56:00,840 --> 01:56:03,600
Speaker 2: It's the layers and the word I had in my notes.

2033
01:56:03,680 --> 01:56:05,920
Speaker 2: I like your word earlier that you used when talking

2034
01:56:05,960 --> 01:56:09,240
Speaker 2: about mc murphy. There are glimpses I like your word

2035
01:56:09,320 --> 01:56:12,640
Speaker 2: better the flicker. I don't know that there's a better

2036
01:56:12,840 --> 01:56:15,520
Speaker 2: actor as I did all my research for this list

2037
01:56:16,160 --> 01:56:21,879
Speaker 2: of giving us flickers of other emotions, of other feelings,

2038
01:56:22,000 --> 01:56:26,200
Speaker 2: of other ideas, of other insights, of other windows into

2039
01:56:26,320 --> 01:56:30,520
Speaker 2: a character's psychology than Jack Nicholson. It really feels like,

2040
01:56:31,360 --> 01:56:34,640
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, for a split second, you saw

2041
01:56:34,680 --> 01:56:38,480
Speaker 2: another version of a man inhabit him, and then he

2042
01:56:38,600 --> 01:56:42,280
Speaker 2: immediately goes back to who that character is in that

2043
01:56:42,400 --> 01:56:44,840
Speaker 2: moment in the flicker here, Josh, And there may be

2044
01:56:45,040 --> 01:56:47,240
Speaker 2: one or two other flickers that happen, but the one

2045
01:56:47,280 --> 01:56:51,600
Speaker 2: I'm speaking to here is he says, all I tried

2046
01:56:51,640 --> 01:56:54,920
Speaker 2: to do was pull him up, and for a flicker

2047
01:56:55,600 --> 01:56:59,600
Speaker 2: a moment, a second or less, his eyes become totally human.

2048
01:57:00,200 --> 01:57:04,480
Speaker 2: He looks like a father genuinely feeling remorse over hurting

2049
01:57:04,520 --> 01:57:06,840
Speaker 2: his son. And then like that it's gone. The monster

2050
01:57:07,000 --> 01:57:09,920
Speaker 2: takes back over as if reminding him, no, it's not

2051
01:57:10,000 --> 01:57:13,240
Speaker 2: your fault, it's all their fault. It's a remarkable scene.

2052
01:57:13,360 --> 01:57:16,360
Speaker 3: This is a performance, you know, I've come around on

2053
01:57:17,160 --> 01:57:19,440
Speaker 3: thanks to your you know, talking about a number of

2054
01:57:19,520 --> 01:57:22,480
Speaker 3: times and kind of convinced me of the usefulness of

2055
01:57:22,560 --> 01:57:24,240
Speaker 3: the bigness. Let's put it that way, because there is

2056
01:57:24,320 --> 01:57:27,840
Speaker 3: a ton going on in this sequence and there is

2057
01:57:28,040 --> 01:57:32,600
Speaker 3: one detail that also involves the eyes is I believe

2058
01:57:32,640 --> 01:57:37,560
Speaker 3: it's right after he takes a drink finally, and they

2059
01:57:37,680 --> 01:57:42,120
Speaker 3: just go dead. And that's where the possession almost seems

2060
01:57:42,160 --> 01:57:44,400
Speaker 3: to take place that you're talking about, and it's it

2061
01:57:44,520 --> 01:57:46,160
Speaker 3: is more layer than that, because then there's a back

2062
01:57:46,200 --> 01:57:49,040
Speaker 3: and forth as you're describing from that point on, but

2063
01:57:49,200 --> 01:57:52,520
Speaker 3: you that instant you almost see like it's it's he's

2064
01:57:52,640 --> 01:57:56,840
Speaker 3: completely lost his soul and then something else comes in,

2065
01:57:57,400 --> 01:58:00,120
Speaker 3: which is what he wrestles with throughout the rest of

2066
01:58:00,200 --> 01:58:00,640
Speaker 3: that scene.

2067
01:58:01,680 --> 01:58:03,880
Speaker 4: I never laid a hand on him, God damn it,

2068
01:58:05,240 --> 01:58:12,360
Speaker 4: I didn't. I wouldn't touch one hair on his goddamn head.

2069
01:58:13,120 --> 01:58:16,840
Speaker 3: All right, we're down to our number ones and I'm

2070
01:58:16,880 --> 01:58:19,200
Speaker 3: going with one from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

2071
01:58:19,720 --> 01:58:23,840
Speaker 3: I think it's probably his career performance. It's also interesting

2072
01:58:24,480 --> 01:58:29,960
Speaker 3: in relation to this idea of the thwarted iconoclast, right,

2073
01:58:30,080 --> 01:58:35,440
Speaker 3: because somehow we touched on this in our review. He's

2074
01:58:35,480 --> 01:58:40,600
Speaker 3: an inspirational one even though he fails, and somehow it's

2075
01:58:40,680 --> 01:58:43,880
Speaker 3: not hokey. That's the magic trick, and I think the

2076
01:58:44,000 --> 01:58:46,520
Speaker 3: delicacy I'll go back to that of the performance. But

2077
01:58:46,600 --> 01:58:50,320
Speaker 3: also Foreman's direction, I think is key to why this

2078
01:58:50,600 --> 01:58:54,840
Speaker 3: doesn't strike me still all these years on as a

2079
01:58:54,960 --> 01:58:59,520
Speaker 3: hokey turn. This is a case Adam unlike Chinatown, where

2080
01:59:00,280 --> 01:59:03,520
Speaker 3: every scene McMurphy is in would be eligible for this list,

2081
01:59:03,600 --> 01:59:07,320
Speaker 3: So true, you cannot go wrong. I decided not to

2082
01:59:07,400 --> 01:59:10,800
Speaker 3: go with one of the hits because a somewhat smaller

2083
01:59:10,880 --> 01:59:14,600
Speaker 3: moment captivated me on this rewatch. It's when he bets

2084
01:59:14,640 --> 01:59:17,760
Speaker 3: his fellow patients that he can pick up this massive

2085
01:59:17,920 --> 01:59:22,480
Speaker 3: marble sink in the bathroom and throw it through the window.

2086
01:59:53,760 --> 01:59:56,880
Speaker 3: But I tried, didn't, God damn it. At least I

2087
01:59:57,000 --> 02:00:01,680
Speaker 3: did that. This really has it all for me. It

2088
02:00:01,840 --> 02:00:05,880
Speaker 3: has the Nicholson charisma, It has the bluster, it has

2089
02:00:05,920 --> 02:00:11,400
Speaker 3: the rebelliousness as you've described him, and then this ultimate frustration.

2090
02:00:12,200 --> 02:00:14,520
Speaker 3: But there is a nobility to it here. And I

2091
02:00:14,600 --> 02:00:19,040
Speaker 3: think this speaks to a couple of things why Cuckoo's

2092
02:00:19,080 --> 02:00:24,400
Speaker 3: Nest feels honestly inspirational while being truly tragic. And I

2093
02:00:24,640 --> 02:00:27,960
Speaker 3: also think it speaks to this idea of McMurphy as

2094
02:00:28,000 --> 02:00:32,480
Speaker 3: a mythic figure life straining against death even though life

2095
02:00:32,560 --> 02:00:37,440
Speaker 3: can't win, even though death is inevitable he's still going

2096
02:00:37,600 --> 02:00:41,880
Speaker 3: to live in this moment, or at least try, as

2097
02:00:41,960 --> 02:00:44,840
Speaker 3: he says, I tried, didn't I? And I do think

2098
02:00:44,880 --> 02:00:48,080
Speaker 3: that maybe Nicholson and R. P. McMurphy, this might be

2099
02:00:48,200 --> 02:00:50,880
Speaker 3: one of those true born to play roles. I think

2100
02:00:50,920 --> 02:00:54,760
Speaker 3: that's a phrase that's tossed around maybe too often, but

2101
02:00:54,960 --> 02:00:57,360
Speaker 3: this might be a case of where he has honed

2102
02:00:57,440 --> 02:01:01,760
Speaker 3: in on and perfected that persona he'd been working on

2103
02:01:02,200 --> 02:01:05,919
Speaker 3: very successfully in earlier seventies films, and found the material

2104
02:01:06,440 --> 02:01:11,360
Speaker 3: to give it a different nuance that has this inspirational element.

2105
02:01:12,040 --> 02:01:14,560
Speaker 3: And I think there are a couple other moments in

2106
02:01:14,760 --> 02:01:20,360
Speaker 3: the film that count as I tried, moments where McMurphy

2107
02:01:20,640 --> 02:01:26,760
Speaker 3: is creating life from nothing even though ultimately death comes

2108
02:01:26,800 --> 02:01:29,720
Speaker 3: for us all. So I'm going to go with I tried,

2109
02:01:29,760 --> 02:01:31,640
Speaker 3: didn't I? From one floor is the Cucko's Nest at

2110
02:01:31,760 --> 02:01:32,120
Speaker 3: number one?

2111
02:01:32,360 --> 02:01:35,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought that was a very powerful scene on

2112
02:01:36,120 --> 02:01:39,040
Speaker 2: this viewing, and I had actually somehow forgotten about the

2113
02:01:39,080 --> 02:01:43,560
Speaker 2: symmetry with chief later in the film. You know, it's futile.

2114
02:01:43,720 --> 02:01:45,920
Speaker 2: You know, there's no way he's going to be able

2115
02:01:45,960 --> 02:01:48,840
Speaker 2: to lift that thing. It is all about the trying,

2116
02:01:48,960 --> 02:01:51,880
Speaker 2: and you mentioned this earlier. We didn't really get into

2117
02:01:52,000 --> 02:01:55,520
Speaker 2: what I had a lot of notes about the movie

2118
02:01:55,680 --> 02:02:01,360
Speaker 2: representing the conflict of the time, but really, you know,

2119
02:02:01,480 --> 02:02:04,920
Speaker 2: going back more like a decade, that decade before the

2120
02:02:05,080 --> 02:02:09,760
Speaker 2: establishment in the counterculture, and clearly, very clearly Nurse Ratchet

2121
02:02:09,960 --> 02:02:13,320
Speaker 2: is the establishment and McMurphy is the counterculture. And I

2122
02:02:13,440 --> 02:02:15,920
Speaker 2: wonder as you look at this film in nineteen seventy

2123
02:02:15,960 --> 02:02:19,840
Speaker 2: six and in the years after. I suppose it depends

2124
02:02:19,880 --> 02:02:22,160
Speaker 2: who you ask, but there are plenty of people who say,

2125
02:02:22,560 --> 02:02:27,480
Speaker 2: you know, the counterculture didn't necessarily succeed. Nixon got elected again,

2126
02:02:27,880 --> 02:02:31,600
Speaker 2: the war raged on, lots of things continued to go wrong,

2127
02:02:31,840 --> 02:02:35,600
Speaker 2: The great sweeping change didn't happen. You know what, at

2128
02:02:35,680 --> 02:02:38,600
Speaker 2: least they tried, They tried to make a change. Yeah,

2129
02:02:38,680 --> 02:02:42,160
Speaker 2: and I think that McMurphy saying that uttering that is

2130
02:02:42,200 --> 02:02:44,440
Speaker 2: an expression of that. It's a great scene. It actually

2131
02:02:44,480 --> 02:02:48,600
Speaker 2: will nicely connect to my number one, which is also

2132
02:02:48,760 --> 02:02:51,880
Speaker 2: from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. And I did

2133
02:02:52,000 --> 02:02:54,920
Speaker 2: pick a hit, but I picked it because it ties

2134
02:02:55,000 --> 02:02:58,680
Speaker 2: back to something I brought up during our conversation about

2135
02:02:58,720 --> 02:03:02,400
Speaker 2: the film earlier. It's the baseball game, and it's number

2136
02:03:02,440 --> 02:03:06,120
Speaker 2: one because I agree with you. I think RP. McMurphy

2137
02:03:06,320 --> 02:03:11,440
Speaker 2: is the quintessential Nicholson character. I'm calling this unbridled Jack.

2138
02:03:12,160 --> 02:03:16,680
Speaker 2: And here's the politics element that really struck me this time.

2139
02:03:17,080 --> 02:03:19,760
Speaker 2: Nixon famously talked about the silent majority.

2140
02:03:20,000 --> 02:03:20,120
Speaker 13: Right.

2141
02:03:20,440 --> 02:03:22,960
Speaker 2: It was a sixty nine, nineteen sixty nine TV speech.

2142
02:03:23,360 --> 02:03:25,920
Speaker 2: He was talking about all the people out there that

2143
02:03:26,720 --> 02:03:30,360
Speaker 2: weren't against Vietnam, who weren't engaging in protests, who weren't

2144
02:03:30,400 --> 02:03:33,200
Speaker 2: part of the counterculture, and he thought the media was

2145
02:03:33,600 --> 02:03:37,840
Speaker 2: showcasing the vocal minority, all the people that were protesting.

2146
02:03:38,520 --> 02:03:41,080
Speaker 2: So what happens in the baseball scene. The second time

2147
02:03:41,160 --> 02:03:44,120
Speaker 2: they vote, he gets the nine votes, and I really

2148
02:03:44,240 --> 02:03:47,640
Speaker 2: love that. Cheswick is the one who initiates it. It's

2149
02:03:47,680 --> 02:03:50,480
Speaker 2: not even McMurphy who gets the second call for votes.

2150
02:03:51,240 --> 02:03:54,760
Speaker 2: They get nine, and she says that's not enough. Here's

2151
02:03:54,800 --> 02:03:58,560
Speaker 2: her rigging the game, right, And what does she say?

2152
02:03:59,040 --> 02:04:02,120
Speaker 2: There are patients on the ward, mister McMurphy. This is

2153
02:04:02,160 --> 02:04:04,600
Speaker 2: what cued me into it, Josh, And you have to

2154
02:04:04,680 --> 02:04:08,520
Speaker 2: have a majority to change ward policy. So you gentlemen

2155
02:04:08,600 --> 02:04:11,120
Speaker 2: can put your hands down. And he says are you

2156
02:04:11,200 --> 02:04:12,880
Speaker 2: trying to tell me that you're going to count these

2157
02:04:13,200 --> 02:04:15,560
Speaker 2: these poor sons of bitches. They don't know what we're

2158
02:04:15,600 --> 02:04:17,959
Speaker 2: talking about. You want to talk about the silent majority.

2159
02:04:18,720 --> 02:04:22,440
Speaker 2: They're literally on the floor. They don't talk, they don't talk,

2160
02:04:22,480 --> 02:04:25,880
Speaker 2: they don't know what's happening. And yet she's saying, they're

2161
02:04:25,920 --> 02:04:29,320
Speaker 2: not tuned into anything, but they're there, they're part of

2162
02:04:29,360 --> 02:04:33,360
Speaker 2: the country. And she's saying, of course their vote does

2163
02:04:33,480 --> 02:04:36,320
Speaker 2: technically count as much, I suppose as everyone else's. And

2164
02:04:36,480 --> 02:04:39,880
Speaker 2: she's saying, you have to get their votes too, the

2165
02:04:40,000 --> 02:04:44,520
Speaker 2: silent majority, and he does get at least one. He

2166
02:04:44,640 --> 02:04:48,000
Speaker 2: gets the key vote, he gets chiefs vote, and the

2167
02:04:48,120 --> 02:04:49,960
Speaker 2: key here right for me, why I thought this scene

2168
02:04:50,040 --> 02:04:53,080
Speaker 2: was so important besides being a classic, maybe being the

2169
02:04:53,240 --> 02:04:56,080
Speaker 2: most famous scene from this film, it might be the

2170
02:04:56,160 --> 02:04:59,520
Speaker 2: most famous Jack scene. But we were talking about Jack

2171
02:04:59,560 --> 02:05:03,200
Speaker 2: playing two characters as r P. McMurphy, and the first

2172
02:05:03,280 --> 02:05:06,000
Speaker 2: part of the scene, I actually see him as very

2173
02:05:06,080 --> 02:05:09,120
Speaker 2: much even in front of hers Ratchet, he's playing Randall.

2174
02:05:09,520 --> 02:05:12,320
Speaker 2: He's playing by all the rules the Ratchet has established

2175
02:05:12,600 --> 02:05:15,000
Speaker 2: and it doesn't matter because she can change the rules

2176
02:05:15,040 --> 02:05:17,840
Speaker 2: as she goes, which she does, and there's a line

2177
02:05:17,880 --> 02:05:19,960
Speaker 2: delivery that's one of my favorite in the entire movie.

2178
02:05:20,240 --> 02:05:22,800
Speaker 2: When she reiterates that the vote was nine to nine.

2179
02:05:24,000 --> 02:05:26,680
Speaker 7: When the meeting was adjourned, the vote was nine to nine.

2180
02:05:28,800 --> 02:05:30,880
Speaker 3: Come on, you're not gonna say that now. You're not

2181
02:05:30,960 --> 02:05:31,960
Speaker 3: gonna say that now.

2182
02:05:32,120 --> 02:05:34,920
Speaker 2: The way he says that, ah, come on, that first awe,

2183
02:05:35,000 --> 02:05:39,680
Speaker 2: come on is such a genuine feeling of disappointment and resignation.

2184
02:05:40,080 --> 02:05:44,040
Speaker 2: It's not angry even, it's just kind of resentment and resignation.

2185
02:05:44,720 --> 02:05:47,320
Speaker 2: And then when he sits down in a huff and

2186
02:05:47,360 --> 02:05:50,080
Speaker 2: he's still breathing heavy, he still hasn't you know, gotten

2187
02:05:50,120 --> 02:05:52,840
Speaker 2: over it, and he starts looking at the TV screen

2188
02:05:52,880 --> 02:05:54,640
Speaker 2: he sees a reflection in it, and then we have

2189
02:05:54,720 --> 02:05:56,800
Speaker 2: the turn. He has a literal turn right. He turns

2190
02:05:56,880 --> 02:05:59,600
Speaker 2: and looks at her as the idea crosses his face.

2191
02:06:00,120 --> 02:06:03,960
Speaker 2: That's when I think he becomes his version of crazy Randall,

2192
02:06:04,440 --> 02:06:07,160
Speaker 2: the one who's going to act like he's supposed to

2193
02:06:07,240 --> 02:06:10,000
Speaker 2: act in this institution, the one that's going to get

2194
02:06:10,440 --> 02:06:14,560
Speaker 2: nurse ratchet, and he begins to do what he knows

2195
02:06:15,360 --> 02:06:16,920
Speaker 2: will upset her more than anything.

2196
02:06:17,440 --> 02:06:20,240
Speaker 3: Goofex my for copax kicks.

2197
02:06:20,800 --> 02:06:23,320
Speaker 2: He delivers He's going to imagine that the game is

2198
02:06:23,360 --> 02:06:25,600
Speaker 2: happening on the TV screen even though it's turned off.

2199
02:06:26,160 --> 02:06:27,400
Speaker 10: The balls at the deep bright center.

2200
02:06:27,640 --> 02:06:29,200
Speaker 3: Davison over the gunner, cut the ball off.

2201
02:06:29,320 --> 02:06:30,640
Speaker 8: Here comes the barwins, just a round and guard.

2202
02:06:30,720 --> 02:06:31,600
Speaker 13: He goes into the second side.

2203
02:06:31,600 --> 02:06:35,920
Speaker 2: Today he is going to defy her and he's going

2204
02:06:35,960 --> 02:06:39,400
Speaker 2: to start doing the play by baby. All right, here's Trice.

2205
02:06:39,520 --> 02:06:40,120
Speaker 8: Is the next batter.

2206
02:06:40,440 --> 02:06:41,760
Speaker 13: Crash looks in Copax.

2207
02:06:42,440 --> 02:06:44,000
Speaker 8: Copax gets the sign from Roseborow he.

2208
02:06:44,040 --> 02:06:44,520
Speaker 10: Kicked once he.

2209
02:06:44,560 --> 02:06:46,560
Speaker 14: Pumpsy fires, it's a strike, Copebax.

2210
02:06:46,600 --> 02:06:48,920
Speaker 13: His card ball is stamping off like a firecracker.

2211
02:06:49,080 --> 02:06:49,400
Speaker 12: All right.

2212
02:06:49,440 --> 02:06:50,560
Speaker 5: Here he comes for the next trick.

2213
02:06:50,800 --> 02:06:51,680
Speaker 8: Cresh twings.

2214
02:06:51,840 --> 02:06:52,440
Speaker 9: It's a lot of.

2215
02:06:52,480 --> 02:06:53,120
Speaker 7: Guy ball.

2216
02:07:04,360 --> 02:07:09,640
Speaker 2: Before It's totally harmless. It's surely a healthy group interaction.

2217
02:07:09,960 --> 02:07:13,160
Speaker 2: It brings smiles to all of the men's faces. What's

2218
02:07:13,240 --> 02:07:17,880
Speaker 2: her reaction, gentlemen, stopped this? Stop this immediately. And as

2219
02:07:17,920 --> 02:07:20,400
Speaker 2: we discussed in detail, you know what, she has all

2220
02:07:20,440 --> 02:07:22,840
Speaker 2: the cards, she holds all the cards. Ultimately she wins.

2221
02:07:22,960 --> 02:07:26,280
Speaker 2: But here, regardless of that power and all of her rules,

2222
02:07:26,520 --> 02:07:28,840
Speaker 2: the locks on the doors and the windows and the

2223
02:07:28,920 --> 02:07:32,840
Speaker 2: TV that's turned off, she can't control their minds. She

2224
02:07:33,000 --> 02:07:37,600
Speaker 2: can't stop their imaginations. There they are totally free. And

2225
02:07:38,400 --> 02:07:42,320
Speaker 2: this might be Nicholson at his most free and charismatic.

2226
02:07:42,640 --> 02:07:46,480
Speaker 3: And it's another I tried moment, right, because he hasn't

2227
02:07:46,960 --> 02:07:50,080
Speaker 3: really won. And I think that's reflected in the shot

2228
02:07:50,160 --> 02:07:52,960
Speaker 3: of the TV screen that you mentioned with his reflection, right,

2229
02:07:53,040 --> 02:07:58,440
Speaker 3: there's gray emptiness that is putting the futility in his face.

2230
02:07:59,120 --> 02:08:02,320
Speaker 3: And yet even in the face of that, he's still

2231
02:08:02,360 --> 02:08:04,120
Speaker 3: going to try. And that's what it looks like here

2232
02:08:04,200 --> 02:08:06,360
Speaker 3: and over and over you see this. This is why

2233
02:08:06,360 --> 02:08:09,000
Speaker 3: they're drawn to him, is that in the face of this,

2234
02:08:09,840 --> 02:08:13,480
Speaker 3: this purgatorial place they found themselves, here's this guy who's

2235
02:08:13,480 --> 02:08:15,920
Speaker 3: going to come in and push back against that and

2236
02:08:16,000 --> 02:08:17,080
Speaker 3: take it as far as he can.

2237
02:08:17,480 --> 02:08:20,920
Speaker 2: Those are our top five Jack Nicholson scenes. There are

2238
02:08:20,920 --> 02:08:23,240
Speaker 2: a lot of good ones to choose from. I'm guessing

2239
02:08:23,360 --> 02:08:25,960
Speaker 2: you have a few honorable mentions worth mentioning.

2240
02:08:26,280 --> 02:08:28,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, five eas pieces. That was another bit of homework

2241
02:08:29,000 --> 02:08:31,760
Speaker 3: that I was glad to do. And if I had

2242
02:08:31,800 --> 02:08:33,800
Speaker 3: gone with a pick from there, it would have been,

2243
02:08:34,520 --> 02:08:37,440
Speaker 3: you know, probably the most famous pick. Even I knew

2244
02:08:37,480 --> 02:08:39,800
Speaker 3: about this scene before I had seen the movie of

2245
02:08:40,000 --> 02:08:41,840
Speaker 3: him in the back of the truck playing the piano

2246
02:08:42,040 --> 02:08:45,120
Speaker 3: and it just you know, goes off down the entrance ramp.

2247
02:08:45,480 --> 02:08:49,880
Speaker 2: Well, let me interject real quick. Yes, great scene, famous scene,

2248
02:08:49,960 --> 02:08:52,720
Speaker 2: but no, the most famous scene in five eas pieces

2249
02:08:52,840 --> 02:08:53,600
Speaker 2: is holding the chicken.

2250
02:08:53,800 --> 02:08:55,440
Speaker 3: Well, and that's what I was going to say. A

2251
02:08:55,520 --> 02:08:58,360
Speaker 3: couple listeners wrote in with that pick, Ben Morian and

2252
02:08:58,600 --> 02:09:02,640
Speaker 3: Ed Redman. Yeah, the showdown with a diner waitress definitely

2253
02:09:02,760 --> 02:09:06,280
Speaker 3: another highlight. John snow Over on Facebook he had the

2254
02:09:06,360 --> 02:09:10,680
Speaker 3: most clever response to my prompt asking for people's favorite

2255
02:09:10,920 --> 02:09:14,000
Speaker 3: scene of Nicholson. The gift from a few good men,

2256
02:09:14,040 --> 02:09:16,680
Speaker 3: he shared, and John said, you want me on that list?

2257
02:09:16,920 --> 02:09:19,760
Speaker 3: You need me on that list. Sorry to disappoint you, John,

2258
02:09:19,840 --> 02:09:22,720
Speaker 3: but of course a great one to consider for an

2259
02:09:22,720 --> 02:09:25,840
Speaker 3: honorable mention about Schmidt. You know, a later career effort.

2260
02:09:26,440 --> 02:09:29,240
Speaker 3: That man, that's a movie I badly need to revisit.

2261
02:09:29,400 --> 02:09:33,440
Speaker 3: But both Clint Reid and jere Moran chose the deer

2262
02:09:33,600 --> 02:09:36,120
Speaker 3: and Dogu scene where he's writing a letter to the

2263
02:09:36,280 --> 02:09:39,600
Speaker 3: Tanzanian boy he's decided to sponsor. So I think those

2264
02:09:39,640 --> 02:09:41,600
Speaker 3: are all worth considering.

2265
02:09:43,200 --> 02:09:47,120
Speaker 2: They are definitely worth considering, and absolutely the hold the

2266
02:09:47,200 --> 02:09:49,720
Speaker 2: Chicken scene from five VC pieces, the piano scene at

2267
02:09:49,720 --> 02:09:52,280
Speaker 2: the end, but also that father and son scene is

2268
02:09:52,360 --> 02:09:56,840
Speaker 2: a very quiet Nicholson scene that's worth some attention here.

2269
02:09:57,440 --> 02:10:00,480
Speaker 2: I already gave some love to the proceeding scene, to

2270
02:10:00,520 --> 02:10:03,720
Speaker 2: the one I picked the shore patrol shout out that

2271
02:10:03,800 --> 02:10:06,680
Speaker 2: he gives in the last detail. What else do I

2272
02:10:06,760 --> 02:10:10,360
Speaker 2: have a respectable man and capable of anything. Those scenes

2273
02:10:10,400 --> 02:10:13,520
Speaker 2: with Noah Cross in Chinatown. There's another scene with Diane

2274
02:10:13,600 --> 02:10:15,920
Speaker 2: Keaton and Red's I'm telling you anytime they're together in

2275
02:10:16,000 --> 02:10:18,560
Speaker 2: Reds it's amazing. Of course, you can't handle the truth

2276
02:10:18,600 --> 02:10:20,960
Speaker 2: in terms of endearment. How about I think it's their

2277
02:10:21,000 --> 02:10:24,280
Speaker 2: first date, the first date with Aurora. The honesty, just

2278
02:10:24,400 --> 02:10:27,560
Speaker 2: the the brutal honesty there again, maybe a trait of

2279
02:10:27,640 --> 02:10:30,160
Speaker 2: a lot of Nicholson characters. When he just tells her

2280
02:10:30,320 --> 02:10:31,480
Speaker 2: you need a lot of drinks.

2281
02:10:32,680 --> 02:10:36,040
Speaker 3: That's great. I love Each of their scenes together is

2282
02:10:36,360 --> 02:10:37,040
Speaker 3: just tremendous.

2283
02:10:37,280 --> 02:10:39,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I did want to make sure that we

2284
02:10:39,680 --> 02:10:43,160
Speaker 2: at least gave some love to some later Nicholson because

2285
02:10:43,160 --> 02:10:46,040
Speaker 2: I do like some of these movies. I definitely appreciate

2286
02:10:46,080 --> 02:10:49,160
Speaker 2: some of these nineties films, like The Pledge and The

2287
02:10:49,240 --> 02:10:51,720
Speaker 2: Crossing Guard. I liked about Schmidt when it came out,

2288
02:10:51,800 --> 02:10:54,640
Speaker 2: So here's Scott Ross and Derwood. Marylynd Jack's run from

2289
02:10:54,680 --> 02:10:56,600
Speaker 2: Easy Rider to Cuckoo's Nest May rank is the best

2290
02:10:56,640 --> 02:10:58,960
Speaker 2: run of any actor. I look forward to potentially hearing

2291
02:10:59,000 --> 02:11:01,520
Speaker 2: some of your choices from the Imperial Phase. Good word,

2292
02:11:01,720 --> 02:11:04,120
Speaker 2: But I would nominate two scenes from his later roles

2293
02:11:04,200 --> 02:11:06,760
Speaker 2: in The Pledge and About Schmidt. The final scene in

2294
02:11:06,800 --> 02:11:09,760
Speaker 2: Sean Penn's The Pledge is as devastating as it gets,

2295
02:11:10,080 --> 02:11:13,040
Speaker 2: and Nicholson completely embodies a man whose compulsion leads him

2296
02:11:13,040 --> 02:11:15,760
Speaker 2: to loneliness and heartbreaking madness. And there is a scene

2297
02:11:15,800 --> 02:11:18,360
Speaker 2: in Alexander Pains about Schmidt where his character goes home

2298
02:11:18,400 --> 02:11:20,760
Speaker 2: again only to find that it is now a tire shop.

2299
02:11:21,160 --> 02:11:23,760
Speaker 2: Nicholson plays the amusement as only he can and gives

2300
02:11:23,800 --> 02:11:26,240
Speaker 2: one of his best performances in a career filled with

2301
02:11:26,320 --> 02:11:27,800
Speaker 2: at least two dozen of them.

2302
02:11:28,200 --> 02:11:30,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think about Schmid too. From my memory. Might

2303
02:11:30,360 --> 02:11:34,320
Speaker 3: be another case where there isn't any quote unquote Nicholson

2304
02:11:34,760 --> 02:11:36,880
Speaker 3: in it, at least in my memory. I really do

2305
02:11:36,960 --> 02:11:38,520
Speaker 3: want to watch that again and see if that holds

2306
02:11:38,560 --> 02:11:39,440
Speaker 3: true once again.

2307
02:11:39,480 --> 02:11:41,680
Speaker 2: Those are our top five Jack Nicholson scenes, and we

2308
02:11:41,800 --> 02:11:44,440
Speaker 2: do have links to all of those scenes and that

2309
02:11:44,560 --> 02:11:47,920
Speaker 2: complete list over at filmspotting dot net just click on lists.

2310
02:11:48,000 --> 02:11:51,200
Speaker 2: We would love to hear any comments you have about

2311
02:11:51,240 --> 02:11:53,920
Speaker 2: that top five or any other feedback you have about

2312
02:11:53,920 --> 02:11:56,920
Speaker 2: the show. You can email us feedback at film spotting

2313
02:11:57,040 --> 02:11:59,400
Speaker 2: dot net. Josh, that is our show.

2314
02:11:59,560 --> 02:12:01,600
Speaker 3: If you'd like to connect with us on social media,

2315
02:12:01,680 --> 02:12:04,200
Speaker 3: you can find Adam and the show on Instagram and

2316
02:12:04,400 --> 02:12:08,760
Speaker 3: Facebook and letterboxed at film Spotting. I'm at those places

2317
02:12:08,960 --> 02:12:12,200
Speaker 3: as well as Blue Sky as Larsen on film. We

2318
02:12:12,280 --> 02:12:15,080
Speaker 3: are independently produced and listeners supported. You can support the

2319
02:12:15,160 --> 02:12:18,720
Speaker 3: show by joining the film Spotting Family at film spottingfamily

2320
02:12:19,200 --> 02:12:22,520
Speaker 3: dot com. That way you can listen early and ad free.

2321
02:12:22,600 --> 02:12:26,160
Speaker 3: You'll also get a weekly newsletter, monthly bonus episodes, and

2322
02:12:26,280 --> 02:12:29,240
Speaker 3: access to the entire show archive. For show t shirts

2323
02:12:29,240 --> 02:12:32,960
Speaker 3: another merch go to film spotting dot net slash shop in.

2324
02:12:33,000 --> 02:12:35,600
Speaker 2: The film Spotting archives. A fair amount of Nicholson The

2325
02:12:35,720 --> 02:12:39,560
Speaker 2: Departed was reviewed on episode one nine Easy Writer, part

2326
02:12:39,600 --> 02:12:42,440
Speaker 2: of our New Hollywood Marathon on episode two fifty seven,

2327
02:12:42,760 --> 02:12:46,800
Speaker 2: The Shining episode four nineteen, and it certainly made an

2328
02:12:46,840 --> 02:12:50,880
Speaker 2: appearance on our Top five Terrifying Characters Batman on episode

2329
02:12:50,880 --> 02:12:54,120
Speaker 2: four ninety seven, and our top five films of nineteen

2330
02:12:54,160 --> 02:12:57,160
Speaker 2: eighty nine. We did talk about Chinatown for its fiftieth

2331
02:12:57,200 --> 02:13:00,960
Speaker 2: anniversary on nine seventy four, and we talked about Milosh

2332
02:13:01,000 --> 02:13:05,480
Speaker 2: Foreman's Amedais on episode seven ninety six. That was part

2333
02:13:05,520 --> 02:13:09,000
Speaker 2: of our eight from eighty four series in limited release.

2334
02:13:09,120 --> 02:13:13,760
Speaker 2: The film I recommended earlier. Architectan Cloud is also out.

2335
02:13:13,840 --> 02:13:17,240
Speaker 2: Our friend Mitchell beau Prey over at Letterbox says the

2336
02:13:17,400 --> 02:13:20,000
Speaker 2: movie of the year. So maybe Josh, we should be

2337
02:13:20,040 --> 02:13:21,440
Speaker 2: talking about that next week.

2338
02:13:21,640 --> 02:13:23,920
Speaker 3: I mean, even erle, we should be talking more about

2339
02:13:24,120 --> 02:13:26,640
Speaker 3: Kyoshi Kurrosawa in general. I should not seen a single

2340
02:13:26,920 --> 02:13:28,400
Speaker 3: film of His Heaven either.

2341
02:13:28,560 --> 02:13:31,920
Speaker 2: David Erleck says it's an action film, as only Japanese

2342
02:13:31,920 --> 02:13:36,240
Speaker 2: horror director Kiyoshi Kurosawa would think to make in wide release.

2343
02:13:36,680 --> 02:13:39,280
Speaker 2: Bad Guys Too. This is the second film adaptation of

2344
02:13:39,360 --> 02:13:41,920
Speaker 2: the popular kids graphic novel Can I can make.

2345
02:13:41,760 --> 02:13:45,240
Speaker 3: It real quick? Adam? Yeah, Uncle Josh went to screening

2346
02:13:45,320 --> 02:13:48,320
Speaker 3: with my nephew to Bad Guys Too? You did? Yeah,

2347
02:13:49,360 --> 02:13:52,080
Speaker 3: I'm afraid a little disappointing. Yeah, I enjoyed that Guys.

2348
02:13:52,200 --> 02:13:53,840
Speaker 3: This was a little bit of a lap down, but

2349
02:13:53,920 --> 02:13:55,680
Speaker 3: if you're a big fan, check it out. See what

2350
02:13:55,800 --> 02:13:56,080
Speaker 3: you think.

2351
02:13:57,320 --> 02:14:00,360
Speaker 2: The Naked Gun. This is by the Lonely Island Guys

2352
02:14:00,520 --> 02:14:04,600
Speaker 2: or the Lonely Island Guy Akiva Schaeffer, who is reviving

2353
02:14:04,840 --> 02:14:08,200
Speaker 2: the franchise. No, not with Leslie Nielsen, but with Liam

2354
02:14:08,360 --> 02:14:12,480
Speaker 2: Neeson plus Pam Anderson and Paul Walter Houser. She rides

2355
02:14:12,520 --> 02:14:15,560
Speaker 2: Shotgun is Out. Tarren Egerton plays a man recently released

2356
02:14:15,560 --> 02:14:17,400
Speaker 2: from prison and on the run from enemies, with him

2357
02:14:17,440 --> 02:14:21,800
Speaker 2: his estranged eleven year old daughter, Together starring Alison Brie

2358
02:14:21,920 --> 02:14:24,640
Speaker 2: and Dave Franco as a couple already near a breaking

2359
02:14:24,720 --> 02:14:28,440
Speaker 2: point who have a supernatural encounter that transforms their relationship

2360
02:14:28,480 --> 02:14:31,680
Speaker 2: and their flesh. We are planning to discuss Together next

2361
02:14:31,720 --> 02:14:34,960
Speaker 2: week along with Sunset Boulevard at seventy five.

2362
02:14:35,440 --> 02:14:37,920
Speaker 3: Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe Disso and Sam

2363
02:14:38,040 --> 02:14:40,840
Speaker 3: van Holgren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go.

2364
02:14:41,360 --> 02:14:44,720
Speaker 3: Our production assistant is Sophie Kempenar Special thanks to everyone

2365
02:14:44,840 --> 02:14:49,080
Speaker 3: at wb Eazy Chicago. More information is available at wbeaz

2366
02:14:49,400 --> 02:14:52,080
Speaker 3: dot org. For Film Spotting, I'm Josh Larson and.

2367
02:14:52,120 --> 02:14:54,080
Speaker 2: I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening.

2368
02:14:54,320 --> 02:14:57,280
Speaker 11: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore.

2369
02:14:58,200 --> 02:14:58,920
Speaker 10: The Barn.

2370
02:15:15,200 --> 02:15:18,120
Speaker 2: Film Spotting is listeners supported. Join the film Spotting Family

2371
02:15:18,200 --> 02:15:21,040
Speaker 2: at filmspotting family dot com and get access to ad

2372
02:15:21,120 --> 02:15:24,520
Speaker 2: free episodes, monthly bonus shows, our weekly newsletter, and, for

2373
02:15:24,600 --> 02:15:27,240
Speaker 2: the first time, all in one place, the entire film

2374
02:15:27,280 --> 02:15:29,960
Speaker 2: spotting archive going back to two thousand and five. That's

2375
02:15:30,000 --> 02:15:31,720
Speaker 2: a film Spotting Family dot com

2376
02:15:34,680 --> 02:15:35,160
Speaker 14: Panicly