WEBVTT - Free Will Might be an Illusion! 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:04.760 Now really. 0:00:06.760 --> 0:00:11.200 Really now, really hell, and welcome to really no really 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:13.640 with Jason Alexander and Peter Tilden, who ask you. 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:15.760 To make a great choice and please subscribe. 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:19.000 That said, the right choice, or any choice, for that matter, 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:22.360 may not be yours to freely make. Stanford biologist and 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:27.760 neuroscientist doctor Robert Sepalski has rankled the scientific and philosophic 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:32.440 communities by arguing one simple point, there is no free will, 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:35.720 and human beings only think we're making our own decisions. 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:37.919 Really no really. When Jason and. 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:41.600 Peter heard this, they realized they had absolutely no choice 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:44.400 but to contact doctor Sepalski so they could get him 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:48.120 to explain his thesis in a simplistic way that maybe 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:51.200 even they could understand, and surprisingly he did. 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:52.400 There it is. 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:58.720 Fun recording under an airport. It's really fun. 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:02.520 I can now we identify with the I can assess 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:06.560 that from a G for four engines supposed to t oh, 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:07.399 that plane is going on a. 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:10.560 Little bit of Toulent. Don't you don't say that? In 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:14.000 today's world, I had no choice. See look at that 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:14.840 for a segue. 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:18.680 Look, today's episode is about you hit me. You hitting 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:25.039 me a lot choice. We have a professor on big article, 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:29.319 big book, doctor Robert Sapolski, major guy, big guy who says, 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:33.839 we have no free will, and beings have no free will. 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:38.039 It's an illusion illusion. So we said, really and do 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:38.920 it like Doug Henning. 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:39.560 No. 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:43.240 I wish you could remember Doug Henning. But he he 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:44.960 made himself disappear many years ago. 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:48.640 He died tragically and young. He had a very serious 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:49.480 cancer and he died. 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.560 He was a lovely and as big as a huge, 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:54.480 huge as magician. 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:56.240 But he was kind of like doing the hip. He 0:01:56.320 --> 0:02:01.240 was the hippie era. TI died in Canadian and oh, okay. 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:04.520 So if it's okay with everybody, I'm disappearing. He he 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:07.480 cared about the audience. But this the free will issue. 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:08.880 It's a bit heavy for us. 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:10.880 If you've listened to the show and understand, listen, you 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:12.880 sent me a ton of research on this, and my 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:14.280 eyes rolled up in my head. 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:16.160 I started, you know, and I do have free will. 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:17.000 I'm not reading this. 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:21.080 I started prepping and after reading seventeen pages, I said, 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:26.400 I don't understand anything that spread determinism, yeah versus antideterminism. 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:26.760 Yeah. 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:28.720 So when he comes on, what we got to say 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:34.480 is imagine that you're looking at toddlers who're basically just 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:38.000 learning the language, and explain it that way, because from 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:40.880 millennia people have been arguing, the greatest thinkers of the 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:42.440 world have been arguing whether we have free will if 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:45.640 youre not right, or no free will? The danger there 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:49.800 is if we admit that we don't have any free will. 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:51.799 The ramifications are huge. 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:55.240 Apparently the government doesn't tell us that aliens are amongst 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:58.639 us because they don't think. They think they'll be global chaos. 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:00.560 We won't be able to it. We can and they 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:05.720 will just be You know that hails in comparison if 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:08.960 you say to the world, hey, human beings have no choice. 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:11.120 We do what we do. We have there's no we 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:13.320 can have no say. Here's the answer to that. Here's 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:13.840 what happens. 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:16.840 Then I shot a guy, So say to me, guy, 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:17.560 you shot a guy. 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:21.480 No free will, no will? That's right. So let's talk 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:22.000 to this guy. 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:26.400 Doctor Robert Mars Sapolski has joined us, and I'm thrilled 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:26.800 to have him. 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:27.440 How are you, sir? 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:29.520 Thank you, thanks for having me on. 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:30.800 Delighted. 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:33.960 It's fascinating when we heard about your book and your 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:35.320 take on free will and. 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:38.480 Just tell the audience the man's credits for a second. 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:41.720 So so we know who we're dealing. Well, I understand 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:44.640 you're jumping. You have no choice in this. I understand. 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:46.000 I understand. 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:49.520 Don't touch me. My my thing would be all right. 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:54.480 So at the fast Professor Biology, Neurology, Neurological Sciences, Surgery, 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:59.120 neuth surgery at Stanford University, an addition or research associate 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:03.240 at the Nash Museums in Kenya, and you spend part 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:06.200 of your year talking about free will, and you spend 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:08.720 part of the year with baboons. And my favorite thing 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:10.640 this is that part of the year is that part 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:14.360 of them. And my favorite thing is your quote was 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:18.320 like their human cousins, Baboons live in large, complex social 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:20.920 groups and have lots of time to devote to being 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:25.159 rotten to each other, just like humans. So what kind 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:28.840 of person is it? Touched does what you do which 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:32.039 is so heady and then says, you know what to 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:33.800 the wife and kids, I'm going to Kenya. I'm going 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:36.159 to live with baboons in the tent for a little bite. 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:39.560 See in a couple of months. What is that all about? 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:42.600 The critical thing is that for Eich of those seasons, 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:46.239 I didn't say to the wife Sea we went together. 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:51.880 She research. Yeah, No, I've spent forever kind of straddling 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:57.000 two businesses, being a brain scientist and being a primatologist. 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:02.120 For thirty three years. Would spend nine months a year 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:05.880 in the lab doing stuff to neurons and sticking jeans 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:08.600 and them things like that, and then three months a 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:12.360 year hanging out with baboons in the sad getty and 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:15.640 going back to the same baboons each year, which is 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:17.080 pretty heavenly. 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:19.680 And we should say the reason you do that is 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:22.159 because they are so similar to humans in the study 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:26.320 kind of intersected what you're doing with your brain science. 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:29.039 So let's start with that because it's heady and talk 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:30.840 to us as if we're toddlers. 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:33.440 Just going to say I preface this Robert by saying 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.880 Peter was lovely. He sent me twenty three links to 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:43.159 your work and about fifty pages of things you've written, 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:46.440 things you've said, things you've dealt with, and. 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:49.760 I understood nothing. Well, it's why. 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:53.520 It's hard, and it's heady, and it's confusing, and it's 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.480 complicated in the sense for a layman you look and 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:59.560 free will has been argued for what millennia, okay by 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:01.120 some of the great thinkers of our time. 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:04.520 And what that does the human beings to say? And 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:07.600 where you negate morality and it's in consequence? 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:10.160 Yeah right, So yeah, that's why I wanted to talk 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:11.760 to you about because it is it's a it's a 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:17.320 big petty subject. It involves criminal justice, it involves brain chemistry, 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:20.839 I mean dopamine and serotonin. So when you say there's 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:23.120 no free will, what does what does that mean? First 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:26.240 of all, give everybody the context of what does that mean? 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:31.440 Even how you, how you why you went into that conclusion, Just. 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:35.400 To orient I'm officially in the lunatic fringe of people 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:38.120 who think about this sort of thing, and that you know, 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:40.400 lots of people who study the brain and biology and 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:43.880 behavioral of that conclude this all sorts of domains where 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:47.320 we have much less agency. I'm out there at the 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:50.080 extreme with a handful of other people saying I don't 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:54.680 think there's any free will whatsoever. And I've actually thought 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:57.440 this way since I was fourteen. I had a very 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:01.680 revelatory night where it all suddenly hit me with great clarity, 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:05.159 and this is how I've been thinking ever since. And 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.520 sort of where I get at it is, you know, 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.640 I'm a scientist. I study how the brain works, how 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:14.920 behavior works, that sort of thing, and when you look 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:19.160 at it in enough detail, there's no free will. And 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:22.440 the trouble with it, like ninety nine percent of people 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:25.600 immediately disagree with that, and like ninety five percent of 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:30.480 philosophers to is they get completely gummed up on the 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:34.160 wrong notion of what free will is, oh, which is 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:38.960 you're sitting there and you're making a choice. You're making 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:41.280 a choice. Do you want to do this or do 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:42.800 you want to do that? Do you want to press 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:45.000 this button or that one? Do you want to like 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:47.640 pull a trigger? Do you want to like tell somebody 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:50.240 you like the dinner they made. You're making a choice, 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:54.520 you have an intention to do that, and most importantly, 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:57.679 you know you don't have to do it. There's alternatives 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:01.000 available to you. You don't have told the trigger. You 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:04.480 can order vanilla ice cream instead of a rocky Road. You 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:08.280 can tell the host that the meal is appalling instead 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:11.280 of saying it's wonderful. And this feels like free will 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:15.840 because you have intent and you act on it, and 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:19.120 you know you didn't have to do that. And for people, 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:23.560 in most cases and for the whole criminal justice system, right, 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:27.800 this is necessary insufficient. This is free will. And where 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:32.880 I come in is that it is completely irrelevant to 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:36.560 anything having to do with free will, because asking okay, 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:38.640 did the person intend to do it? Did they know 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:41.240 they didn't have to, they knew they were turning this 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:45.000 all of that, What that's doing is asking somebody to 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:47.440 review a book and all they get to do is 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:51.200 read the last sentence of it, because you've missed everything 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:54.200 that's come before. And when you look at somebody who's 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:56.920 formed this intent to order this kind of ice cream, 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.600 or to press the button and nuke somebody or not, 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:03.080 or any of these moments of intent, what you're not 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:07.000 doing is asking the only possible question, which is, so, 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:09.480 how do you turn out to be the sort of 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:13.679 person who would have that intent? How'd you wind up 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:17.720 in this moment? What went on a second ago and 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.160 in a minute ago, and an hour ago, in fifty 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:24.000 decades ago that made you this person at this moment with. 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:27.480 This intent and not just intent on like this very 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:31.760 narrow level of oh I now am going to intent 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:34.559 to tell this muscle to press this button? 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:38.880 Or whatever. How'd you wind up being somebody who could 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.000 show up for a psychology experiment where they say push 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:44.559 this button? How do you wind up in a university 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:46.959 where'd you get an interest in psychology? How do you 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:49.240 wind up being someone who would volunteer for a study? 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:51.280 Where'd you learn to read and write? How come you 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:54.160 didn't die from Ricketts when you were six because you 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:57.319 picked the wrong continent to be born on. Why didn't 0:09:57.360 --> 0:09:59.160 you wind up being the sort of person where you 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:02.080 walk in there and you see they're testing the previous 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:04.880 student volunteer and they're all busy with them, so you 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:08.719 steal the grand student's laptop and run out. How do 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.160 you wind up being the sort of person where instead 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:14.000 you're now sitting here and they say push the button. 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:18.560 Whenever you feel an intent? How'd that happen? And it 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.960 doesn't matter what intent you have at that moment and 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:25.160 that you acted upon it and you knew that had alternatives, 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:28.880 because how do you become the person who had that intent? 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:33.000 Because you could not have intended anything other than what 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:37.200 you intent From the moment you were fertilized egg, all 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:40.240 of that was turning into oh you are at this 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:43.439 moment and you had no control over it, and that's 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:44.960 where there's no free will. 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:48.120 Nich Okay, wow. 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:51.280 So now that I first of all, I kind of 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:53.920 just gotta be good because I followed that. 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:56.960 So did I. But I have questions. But I have 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.880 questions about following you too, I do too. 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:03.040 But I guess my first question is does any of 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:07.640 that matter in the moment if I, if I choose 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:11.000 or don't I know that this bell irritates Peter if 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:16.240 I choose to ring it, no matter what all the 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:21.280 millennia of input that brought me, whoever I am, to 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:25.480 this point to make that choice. The fact of the 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:28.680 matter is I have made this choice at this moment, 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:34.840 and is part of your thinking, inclusive of the idea 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:38.960 that it doesn't matter why I did it because I 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:42.080 had no choice and therefore there should be no consequence 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:43.520 or judgment to me doing it. 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:47.880 Well, there should be consequences, sort of the mechanical sense, 0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:51.480 Like if I were Peter, it would be totally morally 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.640 appropriate to lunge across the table and grab your arm 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:56.800 and say I will thraddle you if you do that 0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:00.200 once more, and thus try to intervene with you or 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:05.160 behaveor and constrain it. But in sort of moralizing sense, 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:08.040 it makes no sense at all if you really truly 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:11.720 believe there's no free will. It makes no sense at 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:16.760 all to ever blame or punish anyone for anything. And 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:20.160 it makes no sense to ever praise or reward anyone 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:23.040 for anything. And it makes no sense to feel like 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:28.199 you've earned anything, you're entitled to anything. And it makes 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:31.000 his little sense to like hate somebody for what they 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:34.080 did is to like hate an earthquake or something, because 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:36.880 none of us had any control as to how we 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:40.000 turned out to be the sort of person who would 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:41.199 do what we just did. 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:44.280 So his daughter is in the house, by the way, 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:45.640 we have to talk to his daughter. 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:52.760 We have who walks the walk and talks to talk. 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:55.000 I don't want to get that's so heady that people 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.640 don't get it. But it's nature nurture. If your parents 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:03.800 it's a mentors everything that happens to you, it doesn't matter, 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:05.920 it's all still in that bundle on. How are you 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:09.959 going to end up reacting to this thing? Is that 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:10.840 kind of accurate? 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:11.240 Yes? 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:17.559 Okay, that's that's exactly it. And take somebody, sit them down, 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:19.720 have him fill out a questionnaire about their sort of 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:24.439 political views, their social politics. They're economic, there, geopolitical, all 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:26.920 of that have them sit down in the room that 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:33.120 smells rotten garbage, and on the average people become more 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:37.160 politically conservative. These are not big effects. You can't disprove 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:39.720 free will by making a room smell of rotten garbage. 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:43.400 But like, that's one piece of the story. Second piece 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:49.040 your fetus. Your fetus, and your mother is stressed while 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:52.959 you are in her womb. She's like homeless, she's a refugee, 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:56.760 she's a who knows what, and she secretes elevated levels 0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:00.600 of stress hormones and as a result, they or your 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:03.640 brain in those stress hormones and you as a fetus, 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:06.440 and as a result, when you were an adult, you've 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:10.280 got about a twentyfold increased likelihood of an anxiety disorder 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:14.080 or a depression or like. Third domain, here's this one. 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:17.839 What were your ancestors up to five hundred years ago? 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:22.200 What kind of cultures were they constructing, and what kind 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:24.920 of ecosystem were they living in, Because that influenced what 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.760 kind of culture they came up with. If your ancestors 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:32.520 were hunter gatherers, you were much more likely to believe 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:36.640 in polytheistic gods. If they were desert dwellers with camels 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:40.400 and goats, you're more likely you've turned out to be monotheistic. 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.880 If your ancestors were farmers and it's hard for people 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:46.600 to come at night and steal all your crops, you 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.440 wind up with a different culture than if they were herdsmen, 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:53.160 where some varmint could show up and rustle your cattle, 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:56.560 and your ancestors would have invented a culture of honor 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:01.600 where if somebody crosses you, you stay them ten times worse, 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:04.840 or else they're going to disrespect you. And that explains 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.120 a huge amount of patterns of crime in the United 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:10.160 States between the South and the Northeast because of who 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:16.800 settled there, like crazy ass Northern Ireland, Northern Scottish herdsman 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.520 settled the South and developed a culture of honor. And 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.280 you could do a psych experiment now with kids who 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:27.080 come from Mississippi versus kids who come from like Andover 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:30.239 or something, and they show up and on the average 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:35.600 they will have different indocurrent responses to somebody who disses them. 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:38.160 As part of the experiment, who bumps into them in 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:42.640 the hallway intentionally, It says, watch a jerk, because you 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:45.240 got raised in the culture that your mother was raised 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:46.880 and that her mother was raised in, going all the 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:50.160 way like, so that has something to do with it. 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:52.920 And what was happening when you were a fetus, and 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:55.520 what the smell is in the room, and what color 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:58.480 you're underwear are this morning, and if they fit right 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:02.360 or not, and what the socioeconomic status was in your 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:06.680 neighborhood and everything in between. And you put all those 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:11.080 pieces together and there's not a crack anywhere in there 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:13.680 in which you could shoehorn this notion of free will. 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:18.520 So are we approaching minority report where someone can feed 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.120 into this computer all of that stuff and predict that 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:26.000 you're going to commit a crime. That's predictive crime, predictive outrage, predictive, this, 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:42.320 predictive that behavior. Yeah, So are we approaching minority report 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:45.840 where someone can feed into this computer all of that 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:47.560 stuff and predict that you're going to commit a crime. 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:52.720 That's predictive crime, predictive outrage, predictive, this, predictive that behavior. 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:56.360 Yeah. Well, we're not very good at it yet, but 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.600 we're willing to run some aspects of society based on it. 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:03.800 We are willing to constrain the behavior of people who've 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.480 done nothing because we know they are going to be dangerous. 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:11.560 We are willing to run society that way. Your kid 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:14.600 has a nose cold, and you keep them home from 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:19.040 kindergarten tomorrow because they have a pre crime minority report 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:21.119 and rule which is pleased. If your kid has a 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:23.240 nose cold, keep them home from school so they don't 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:26.119 get everybody else sick. Your kid doesn't have to go 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:28.159 in and get everybody else sick. You can have this 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:31.239 pre crime move of saying, please keep your child at 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:33.600 home so they don't get everybody else sick, and you 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:38.360 could intervene based on predicting the outcome, and we can 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:43.800 protect society from a dangerous individual, your sneezy kid without 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:46.720 invoking free will. They don't have a rotten soul for 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:49.480 having done that, despite the fact that the times in 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:51.240 the past people would have thought. 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:57.440 That taking what you're saying verbatim is that you gave 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:00.000 an I think I'm going to attribute it to you 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:02.600 where you said, you know, we used to believe epilepsy 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.560 was a demonic possession, and then we understood it medically, 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:08.119 and we treated it medically and we've had great success 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:08.320 with it. 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:09.440 We understand it differently. 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:15.440 Is anyone working on correcting what we think of as 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:20.359 aberrant or destructive behaviors based on these theories of it 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:26.040 being a cacatenation of environment and background and exposure and 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:28.560 all and you know, oh cool word. 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:33.960 Yeah. Every time somebody tries to figure out, like, does 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:37.560 Parkinson's disease have a genetic component? Does it have an 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:41.240 environmental component? Where every time, even more pertinent to suit 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:44.320 of all this thinking, they figure out there's a subset 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:47.520 of people with Parkinson's who when they take their meds 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:50.080 that replace dopamine and do it in a certain way, 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:53.800 there's a subset of them where they then become compulsive 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:59.000 gamblers and compulsive risk takers because something screwy is also 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:02.040 happening with dopamine in another part of the brain. Oh 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:04.600 my god, they gambled away their life saves a bit. 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:08.520 No, it's like this medicaid in about fifteen percent of 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:11.280 people who have this version of this gene but don't 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:14.680 have that version of that gene or what dopa meane, 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:17.560 this drug also does this to this part of the brain, 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:21.520 and they have a problem with compulsive gambling. Okay, we 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:23.680 can kind of figure that one out. 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:28.560 I get it. Let's have some really like complicated like neurochemistry. 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:31.840 Now it's much harder for us to figure out, Oh, 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:34.600 because of this kind of instability at home when they 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:37.760 were a kid, and those cultural values in this mixture 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:40.280 of genes that they had, and the time they got 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.280 the concussion when they were eleven, or that's why they 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:46.560 turned out to be a compulsive gambler. It's a lot 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:50.199 harder to figure that one out. Like somebody gets like 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:52.199 a big chunk of their brain blown out and they 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:56.680 have trouble regulating their behavior. You see it, there's this 0:19:57.000 --> 0:20:01.840 cable of causality and lack of free will that has 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:05.280 produced this person whose behavior is unregulated. It is so 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:09.000 much harder, though, to see that there's one hundred gazillion 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:14.800 little spider webs of causality from culture and fetal life 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:17.000 and what your third grade teacher said to you, and 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:19.280 what happened that time, and what do you have for 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:21.680 whether you have gas this morning or not at all, 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:26.399 to realize that all those gazillion spider webs put together 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:30.840 form as thick of a cable of causality, as like 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:35.160 the easy cases, oh, brain damage. 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:37.560 On a scale of one to ten, how much pushback 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:42.200 you get you get from your community people who study. 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:47.679 Brain oh, about eleven goes all the way up to 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:52.439 eleven on that one. Most of the philosophers have like 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:57.040 come at me with philosophical like sharpened knives and stuff, 0:20:57.320 --> 0:21:01.800 So they haven't been happy. All sorts of people, like 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:06.199 all of us, don't really cotton that much to the 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:09.280 idea that there's no free will because it's like potentially 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:10.280 depressing as well. 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:15.040 No choices we make aren't our choices that they're predetermined. 0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:17.520 It is a hard thing to swallow, and even if 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:19.440 you couch it in the way that you did where 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:21.960 you're saying, no, it's not that you're limiting your choices. 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:24.679 It's just look at who you are and why you 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:28.040 made those choices, rather than you're not making those choices. 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:30.720 You are making those choices, but they're predicated on a 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:33.480 whole lot of other crap that maybe you're not taking 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:35.639 into consideration. I mean, is that as simplistically as I 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:36.159 can put. 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:40.320 It, that's perfect. That could be like the banner for 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:46.560 the whole Yeah, exactly. It's a bummer, but it's kind 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:49.960 of how we turned out. But for me, the most 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:52.680 important thing, like this, this book of mine, I've been 0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:55.560 flogging about how there's no free will. Like, the first 0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:57.360 half is, there's no free will, there's no free will. 0:21:57.400 --> 0:22:00.000 The second half is, oh my god, what if people 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:03.199 actually started believing there's no free will? What's going to 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:06.560 happen then? And a lot of the book of that 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:10.159 section is people are not going to run amock. We 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:13.000 can fix that. We're not going to have murderers running 0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:16.040