WEBVTT - Ep. 143: Self-loathing and Guilt 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.320 This is me eat your podcast, coming at you, shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.360 bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:28.320 can't predict anything. Is there anyone here? Raise your hand? 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:32.280 If I haven't told you about a my buddy's brother 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:35.519 who was carrying the d Iraq on his backpack, I 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:39.840 haven't told you about this? No? No, okay, raise your hand. 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:42.920 If I haven't told you about this man eating tiger 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:47.440 and uh, this man eating tiger in India. I told 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:52.040 you guys all about it. Can you can we act 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:56.160 like I didn't tell you? Okay? My buddy's brother, he 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:57.800 doesn't want me to say who it is, but it's 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:01.440 a guy that's been on this podcast, and I've met 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:06.800 his brother. I fished purchased his brother. Um kills of 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:11.560 Columbia blacktail in Washington State, and I haven't spoke with 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:15.320 him directly about it, but he kills a blacktail in 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:24.200 Washington State and he affixes the rack, the skull and 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:30.600 antlers to his backpack. And this is one of those 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:32.640 things that you hear about it being a no no, 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:36.720 like it will even tie orange flagging or tie a 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:39.640 game vest or whatever around antlers when you're doing it, 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:42.200 but you're always like, man, what are the chances that 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:45.840 that would happen? That being, what are the chances that 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:50.840 someone would mistake it for a live animal? Well, he 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:56.680 got shot at so it was such a close call 0:01:57.400 --> 0:02:00.280 that the guy shot a hole through his backpack? Whoa 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:05.120 dude too close? The game warden hauled. This dude often 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:11.440 handcuffs as he should. Jeez shot a hole through his 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:15.079 backpack with a high powered rifle thinking not only thinking 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:19.000 that it was a live buck, but also that he 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:23.040 was aiming at its lungs, or he didn't get that 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:30.120 far into the thinking horrifying. What does anybody else have 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:36.440 a story like themselves or someone they know closely that's 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.520 happened to you, like when someone shot at a sound 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:43.760 or I know people that got shot in Pennsylvania turkey hunting. Really, 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:47.840 I know there's three guys standing together talking after working 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:51.639 a bird and all three of them got hit. What 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:54.520 what did the person think he was shooting at a turkey? 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:59.760 I guess mistook three mugs for a turkey and knew 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:04.560 it was a gobbler, not him. That's what. I don't 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:06.119 know what he was thinking, but that's what I don't 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.240 get it. I don't. I don't think there's a mistaking. 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:13.520 It's a it's a there's movement. I'm gonna shoot and 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:15.760 figure out it out later. Is it that? Or is 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:17.920 it like buck fever sort of thing where you're just 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:20.280 like so keyed in, Like anytime you see like a 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:23.240 rack or movement and you're like, oh, I gotta shoot 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:24.919 because that's what I'm out here for. That's just too 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:27.920 In this case, you've got a rack that's pointed the 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:31.040 wrong direction. What's moving to? If it's on a backpack 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:35.680 walking away Buck of lifetime man inverted? It was an 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:42.880 inverted buck. It's just still blows my mind that stuff happened. Disgusting. 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:47.720 What are they thinking? There's more lury details about this individual, 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:51.680 but I don't want to give him away. Not lury 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:54.680 details about the victim, but lurd details about the perpetrator. 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:58.040 He had some other things going on. Mm hmm. What 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:02.320 does the victim say, I've only I'm friends with the 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:09.640 victim's brother, and I've fished with the victim, the near victim. No, 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:12.000 the victim. I fished with the victim, but I'm not 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:17.880 tight with him. Um okay, the man eating tiger. This 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:20.800 is kind of amazing. Man. If a bear, if if 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:24.359 a grizzly here scratches someone else, that's a dead bear. Quick. 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:30.000 This tiger in India killed thirteen people before they were 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:34.599 able to kill the tiger whittled away at thirteen people, 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:38.320 and they finally they got it to expose itself and 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:45.200 lured it in use an obsession clone no people. Yeah, 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:49.720 old obsession had like an extract, had some kind of 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.800 like civic extract or something in it, and they find 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:56.760 that it works really good as a tiger lure. Obsession obsession. 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:01.040 Tell me you know more about this and we can 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:02.960 take this one one step far. I was just reading 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:05.799 about this. I've heard that tigers have like a vengeance 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:09.600 for people. They will remember people scent, they'll remember like 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:13.080 they'll have it out and they'll do you speak up Orange. Yeah, 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:15.360 you guys gotta get you guys gotta get trying to 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:17.760 share the mike, but we're doing the two finger things. 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:22.840 But you're selling a dude yelling at up at a seminar. Alright, Well, 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:25.400 I'm gonna get real uncomfortably close to Chris and tell 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:29.560 you that I believe that what I've heard is that 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:34.120 tiger's hold vengeance against people. I think that comes from 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:39.520 one book called Tiger. The Tiger. Yeah, but John valent Yeah, 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:41.839 who wrote one of the really you know what, you 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:44.039 want to read a real book, read his book The 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:48.640 Golden Spruce. That's it right in some bit right there. Man, 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:51.360 he's good. But there's certain books that come out. It's 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:53.560 like Malcolm Gladwell writes a book, then for the next 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:57.200 six months you gotta have people tell you. They tell 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:00.279 you stuff that they read there and act like that 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:03.440 they didn't read it there. But you know what, Actually 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:05.560 the way to think about that is and you learn 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:08.400 later like where it's all coming from. But since that 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:10.480 book came out, I've had fifty people tell me that 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:12.320 about tigers. Not to take away from because he's a 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:15.680 hell of a writer. Was his name again, John Villante? 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:19.440 I think yeah, we've emailed the a I L. L Anti, dude. 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:22.280 The Golden Spruce is about a giant golden spruce and 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:25.279 the man who sawed it down and why he sawed 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:26.919 it down and he did not saw it down for 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:29.920 the reasons you think he would have saught it down. 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:34.560 It's about an act of like eco terrorism. Mm hmmm. 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:42.680 It's a goodass book. Uh, in Florida. Guy, you know 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:47.200 about this seven sevent ft python. Dude just got a 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:51.920 one twenty pound seventeen ft five inch long python. He 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:53.760 paid for it too. You didn't he didn't bite him 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:55.560 several times when he was wrastling with it. Bait him 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:59.520 up a little bit awesome. I can't even wrap my 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:02.360 head around on a snake that big. He can wrap 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:05.599 his head around. You, God, I can't wrap my head around. 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:08.279 Why you would want to catch it? I catch it 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.000 after I shot its head off. The bounties on them, 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:13.360 I guess not alive. I don't know why he wanted 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:15.080 to catch it live. Just a lot cooler to roll 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:19.720 in with the snake that's alive. It makes more of 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:23.840 a statement man, to have a hy pound of live snake. 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:29.840 Just giant pythons. Man, kind of getting sick of those pythons. 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:34.040 Imagine the tree stands you were sitting in. You'd go 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:36.560 from the top of that tree stands to the bottom. 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:40.080 That is that's so scary in way as much as 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.720 ridge founder, it's just about what are they eating? Just anything, 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:47.920 small mammals. They've eliminated a size class of mammals in 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:51.960 the everglades. That's what our buddy Robert Abernathey who worked 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:55.160 on some Python projects and whatnot. He's a he's a biologist. 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:58.080 A couple of interesting things he's telling us about is 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:04.000 they have like eliminated like everything, like grinners, raccoons, like 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:08.000 a whole size class of like mid sized mammal. They 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:11.240 just wipe them out anybody. They're working on this stuff 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:13.880 to try to test how far north pythons can go 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:19.920 and that they can't penetrate the frost line. So like 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:23.960 if you live in you know, yeah, man, they're not 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:25.760 gonna They're not gonna be up in the Carolinas. They're 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:28.360 not gonna be up in Alabama. Our squirrel populations, in 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:32.800 our cottental populations would be in danger. There's no safe 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.480 place to be a grinner anymore. Chase, we chased after 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:37.760 grinner last night, didn't we We did? We didn't come 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:39.839 up and gave us a slip. Does everybody know what 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:43.640 a grinner is? That's a possum, that's a dug During 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:48.040 calls them grinners. Speaking of getting mauled up. Now, this 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:49.680 is something we don't know. We just tried to fact 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.480 check it, but it seems like there's something here that 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:54.400 where we got in a we got in a mix 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:56.920 up with a with a brown bear on a fog 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:01.400 neck about a year ago. And I guess some I 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:03.760 just got mauled up pretty good. We've been hearing all 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:09.000 kinds of rumors from one dude. One of these rumors, 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:10.400 I don't know if it's sure or not, is he 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:14.200 was sporting a stone glacier backpack and that his backpack 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:19.640 got mauled About that, seth, you believe it? He tried 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:22.760 to fact check it in. Yeah, we tried you what 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:29.000 do you feel safe adding here he was a hiker? Yeah, 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:30.600 we don't know what that means. We don't know. We 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:33.839 don't know if he's scouting type hiker or an ari 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:36.760 I type. What if he was what he was hiking 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:40.080 around hunting? Yeah, I just wait to say that. I 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:44.600 don't know either way. We love him the same Ron 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:49.040 Bam wrote in all worked up about Remember the other 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:51.080 day we were talking about dogs and like, and I 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:54.280 was talking about the cake theory. Okay, that got a 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:56.360 lot of people, I've noticed to a lot of letters 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:59.760 came in about the cake theory. Um, they're saying that 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:02.120 A that was a bad analogy. One guy didn't. He 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:04.840 was talking about when he smells shrimp scampy that he 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:07.360 smells all that. He said, I smell the butter and 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:10.959 the shrimp, but it's just easier to say scampy. So 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:17.160 I'm like, whatever, Okay, well let's give this guy a 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:20.320 haul of pass. You got something to add well, yeah, 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.559 because yeah, sure shrimp scampy. You can smell butter and shrimp. 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:25.760 All good on you and you don't have a broken nose. 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:29.680 Ron Dame Rolds. We're talking about what does like what 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:33.280 is a dog? But this isn't why Ron wrote in 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:36.680 though round was over right in conversation about the what 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:39.240 hunting dog like? What dogs smell? Like? How is it 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:43.240 different than what we smell? Um? We got team about 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:55.559 like different uh climactic not climax climactic. Uh climatic climactic. Yeah, 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:58.680 that's right. You know what I'm talking about climate that 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:02.000 the different situation sations can influence a dog. And so Ron, 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:05.400 who you might know from the Hunting Dog Podcast, which 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:08.480 is all about all things that hunting dogs. Um, he's 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:12.920 been judging pointing dogs for the North American Versatile Hunting 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:16.160 Dog Association for twenty years and he's hung out with 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:20.040 a guy who's spent twenty years running dogs from Michigan 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:23.160 to Montana to Arizona. And here's what these guys think. 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:27.559 He says. For for tracking ability on a dog, he 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:33.679 says humility, humidity, humility levels. Humidity levels are a major factor. 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:37.800 He thinks when you get below ten percent humidity, it 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:42.360 becomes tough for a dog to detect game. And you 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:45.960 get much higher than sixty and it starts to have 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:50.320 a negative effect. He says that wind speed is also 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:54.320 a crippler. Anything over say, fifteen miles per hour in 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:56.400 the scent just gets too deluded and spread out too 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:59.480 thin too quickly. He says, you get wins in the 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:02.600 twenty just dirty range. It becomes very hard for dogs 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:04.960 to sort it out. He's talking about primarily bird dogs 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.200 becomes very hard from to sort it out. He says, 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:12.080 bara metric pressure matters too, but it matters for a 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:16.880 weird reason. If a front is coming in, birds just 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:21.240 sit tight and they don't feed, so you don't have 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:23.400 a lot of bird feet water all over the place 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:27.199 leaving odor. So you could you could have this front 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:29.800 coming in and think that somehow it's affecting your dog 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:32.839 his ability to smell birds. What's going on is birds 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:37.480 just aren't out leading are out leaving scent. M Most 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:40.960 birds walk to their food source. When they're feeding, they're 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:43.880 leaving smell. When they're leaving smell, your dog can find it. 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:48.320 And he talks about when. When he talks about when 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:52.240 you're judging a dog or buying a dog, there's a 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:56.800 scorecard category called use of nose, and he says this 0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:00.960 should not be confused with quality of ohs. A dog 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:04.520 has to have a desire to find game. He can't 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:10.560 just like to just run around looking for it. You 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:12.800 can have, he says. He he winds it. He says, 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:15.400 it's a lot like people needing to stay at the 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:17.920 task at hand. He says, compared to hunters that get 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:21.600 tired or uncomfortable, saying the rain and their desire to 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.400 continue starts to slip a bit. They get distracted thinking 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:27.400 about things like hoping the weather gets better, instead of 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.079 pushing through it and blocking out those thoughts. Dogs are 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:33.160 very much the same way. The nose that is tied 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:36.800 or matched to its level of desire will produce the 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:43.040 best results. Some skills can be taught, but desire will 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:51.240 always win. The day. Just think about that Ron Bam 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:55.960 Hunting Dog podcast. Another dude, real quick road in saying like, um, 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:01.800 we get this a lot too, saying like, hey, does 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:07.440 does copper ammal work? And the thing about it? Go ahead, Jannie, 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:10.120 I didn't have anything to add. You just piqued my 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:16.280 interesting up up not just listening. You perked up. Here. 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:21.640 Here's the way I would put it more. I think 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:25.080 the copper ammal is having a high rate of adoption 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:35.360 because of efficacy, like so many loaders use it. You're honest. 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:41.920 I agree, like serious shooters switching for no other reason 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:46.720 than efficacy. I feel like the effic accuracy accurately. Well, yeah, 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:50.920 I'm I'm rolling that in. I think for a while 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:54.360 what happened with in fact check me on this. You're 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:58.080 honest because you follow the stuff perhaps tighter than I do. 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:00.840 I think for a while, and people first started using 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:05.040 monolithic or copper bullets, it was they were using because 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:08.200 they were very accurate, but they had there was like 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:12.600 early on performance issues because there's a lot to get 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:18.880 right where the thing has to expand but not break apart. 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:23.880 And I think it took some years to get it developed. Yeah, 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:28.280 it seemed like there was early critiques of uh, when 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:32.840 the bullets didn't hit bone, it hit some mass that 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:38.120 they would The term was used pencil through animals, like 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:42.080 taking an arrow with a field tip and just pushing 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:45.240 it through the lungs and not getting the upset and 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:47.680 the damage that you're looking for out of a bullet. 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:52.440 And I don't know if that was coincidence or if 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:56.280 they did make better technology. I know that Federal with 0:15:56.520 --> 0:16:00.360 their new you know, trophy copper line, I know that 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.520 they have made like a deeper cavity up front that's 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:06.760 supposed to help, you know, initiate that expansion and make 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.640 that those pedals come out more, you know, so you 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:12.640 can get the get the damage. Yeah, if people try 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:15.080 different tricks, like even like cutting them to try to 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:18.400 get them to pedal and break into four pieces. But 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:21.560 I'm telling you, man, I have We've been shooting a 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:27.200 bunch of the Federal trophy copper and it comes out 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.560 looking like uh, it comes out looking like if you 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:32.560 had a magazine picture of like the perfectly expanded bullet 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:37.960 mm hmm, like opens right up, turns into nice slug. 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:43.360 I mean they advertise up the weight retention, so like 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:46.320 good penetration and it doesn't bust all up and they 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:48.640 put like a tip there's like a like a cavity 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:50.880 in there, but then it's got a polymer tip on 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:54.240 it that helps it expanding. The other problem with it 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:57.960 would be that, like, here's the thing to think about 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:00.240 when when you're talking about this stuff is when people 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:03.080 talk about a long range bullet, you might hear it 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:05.520 and think like, oh, that means it's like accurate long range. 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:07.600 It's probably true, probably has like a like a good 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:11.880 like a high ballistic or what's that word, ballistic coefficiency. 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:14.080 But the other thing when we talk about long range 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:18.520 bullet would be that it will still mushroom. It will 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:22.120 still expand at a low velocity. So if it's coming 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:24.640 out of your if it's coming out of your muzzle, 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:27.879 let's say three feet per second, if it were to 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:30.679 hit something at that speed, if it's a poorly constructed 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:32.520 bullet and it hits something at that speed, he might 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:35.240 rough to do a bunch of pieces. But then it 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:39.480 slows down and it loses half of its velocity and 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:42.560 hits something and it doesn't happen. There's not enough there's 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:46.560 not enough force there to cause it to expand. So 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:48.720 if you see a long range bullet, what that will 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:52.440 mean is that can still expand. One of the things 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:55.280 that means is it can still expand at low velocities. 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:57.040 And I think that these are all things that have 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:59.080 taken a while to get sorted out, which I feel 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:02.639 like now they've just got that sorted out. Where you 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:06.400 have like solid copper stuff that has a polymer tip 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:10.320 and a boattail design and has you know, a good 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:15.520 downrange velocity, like it's still cooking and still opens up, right. 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:17.720 I just don't think you can really right now. I 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:23.800 don't think there's really any from an efficacy standpoint. I 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:26.879 just don't see there's any argument that there's any argument 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:30.520 against it. No, was did this guy have a specific question? 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:33.040 You're just saying he's always hearing about it, but he 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:37.119 hears different things about whether it works or not. This 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:39.440 dude just rote into that. I've yet to have a bad, 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:46.159 uh experience with him. I had a bad experience with 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:48.600 a different kind long time ago, and it was still 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:50.879 in its infancy. This is like seven years ago, not 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:52.960 in its infancy, but it was I was using like 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:58.359 an unproven manufacturers offerings and had a penciling incident at 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:12.280 a long range four hundred plus yards. Good Mark Kenyon. Yeah, Uh, 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:15.040 tell me about sitting in the tree. Uh, tell me 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:17.440 what happens in your mind when you're sitting, when you're 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:19.600 doing twelve hours sits. We're just we're just finishing up 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:21.520 a white tail deer hunt, a white tailed deer bowl hunt, 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:28.320 peak rut and marksman sitting all damn day. Yeah, for 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:31.320 the last three days, at least all day, twelve hour days. 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:36.520 It's a long haul. I mean, me and Lauren we're talking. 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:38.680 When we got out of the tree every day. You 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:43.440 wouldn't think after just sitting for twelve hours that you'd 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:46.199 be physically exhausted. But when you get out of there, 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:48.960 I mean you are worn down. Well, you're in the 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:51.720 saddle today. I was in the saddle the two days 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:53.240 before that, I was in the stand. He was in 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:56.680 the saddle every day. Um. But yeah, yeah, I mean 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:03.320 you're look can a lot, you're searching a lot. But 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:05.239 then there there's a lot of downtime. There's a lot 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:07.639 of periods of time where there's nothing going on. And 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:09.520 the biggest thing for me on all day sits is 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:12.680 it is it's of course partly physical, but I think 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:14.640 the mental side is the bigger part of it. Being 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:17.840 able to stay mentally engaged as much as you possibly 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:21.240 can over the course that whole day, and knowing knowing 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:23.920 that even though things have been dead for two hours, 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:27.399 that at any time it could all change. So I've 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:30.440 had my fair share of mistakes over the years where 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:32.480 I lost focused in the middle of an all days sitting. 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:35.080 It cost me. I told you guys a story last 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:38.120 year about holy Field, and does eleven o'clock in the afternoon, 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:40.240 and I've lost focus. And then there is at twenty 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:44.000 yards um sending text messages. I was reading a book 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:47.640 on my phone. Reading the book on your phone. Yeah, 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:50.000 you're sitting for twelve hours. Everyone. You need a little 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:52.240 something to kind of buy the time. And so I 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:54.280 would like, look at I look at the phone for 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:58.160 twenty seconds, Scan all around me. Look at the phone 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:00.960 for twenty seconds, scan all around I got, you're reading 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:05.040 high cous What were you reading? I was reading, Uh, 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:08.800 it's a book called the Name of the Wind. For 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:11.320 a second, I thought, I've never heard of a book 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:18.160 called high cous. Dear, I'd read that book by high 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:24.400 Country Cus. Is that Duncan go christop No Duncan's Bill 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:27.720 Duncan Gil Chris's best book. His best book has an 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:30.240 unfortunate title of Hunt High. And I think a lot 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:32.639 of people read that. A lot of people read that, 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:35.880 and they get to think in one thing he saw 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:42.560 about unting the high country, not hunting high go on 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:46.320 sitting all day, man, I think nothing of going out, 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:50.719 Like if we're you know, regular spot star hunting anything, Oh, well, 0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:53.280 you know, I leave knowing them. No way I'm coming back. 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:56.440 Why would I come back, Because let's take a big 0:21:56.440 --> 0:21:58.760 old nap out where I am. I'll eat my lunch 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:00.600 for I am. There you go. But sitting in the 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:05.800 damn tree, it wears on you. The same scene for 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:11.040 twelve hours, the same trail, the same trees, the same creek. 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:13.840 It's all there. You don't get to do anything. It 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:17.080 definitely gets worse, the tighter to the space and the 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:21.560 shorter like if you if you yeah, where you can 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:26.880 glass every five minutes? Yeah, I mean, it's just it's 0:22:26.960 --> 0:22:30.720 just a matter of toughen it out, having snacks, having water, 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:34.360 and then yes, I think that is better to be 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:38.640 in the tree and be slightly distratched on occasion by 0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:40.879 your phone or a book or something that than not 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:42.720 being in the tree at all. Yeah, give me the 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:45.960 main argument, Like people can picture what it is, but 0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:48.000 tell me why you sit all damn day. So the 0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:51.480 reason why you sit all day during the rut is 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:57.000 because bucks specifically get up some number of them on 0:22:57.040 --> 0:23:00.840 a relatively consistent basis in our cruising for os from 0:23:00.960 --> 0:23:04.240 let's say ten or eleven till one or two in 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:08.840 the afternoon, especially older, dear, Now you're not going to 0:23:08.920 --> 0:23:10.840 see the same number of deer as you might in 0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:15.600 the typical um early morning or late evening hours, right, dear, 0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:19.040 a crepuscular, so they are most active at first light 0:23:19.080 --> 0:23:21.520 and last light, so that no matter what, you're the 0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:25.199 most activity then. But there's a disproportionate amount of activity, 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:28.520 especially for mature bucks, middle of the day during the rut. 0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:32.359 So people, you better tuck into crepuscular. They're a little 0:23:32.359 --> 0:23:36.400 bit Yeah. Yeah, So crepuscular just describes an animal that's 0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:40.920 most active at that dawn or dusk time period. So dear, 0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:45.280 many many mammals, right are most active the first hour 0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:48.480 or two, last hour or two. But for the small 0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:52.000 time period, these bucks know where does will be in 0:23:52.040 --> 0:23:54.920 the middle of the day, right they're bedded down, so 0:23:54.960 --> 0:23:58.240 they have a great opportunity that time period to go 0:23:58.359 --> 0:24:00.800 from dough bedding area to dope sitting air into dope 0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:03.800 betting air to find females that are ready to breed. 0:24:04.480 --> 0:24:07.840 So if you're willing to tough it out, it's a 0:24:07.880 --> 0:24:09.840 great time to get those bucks on their feet. And 0:24:10.160 --> 0:24:13.320 we saw it. You think he's going around to betting 0:24:13.320 --> 0:24:15.200 areas just to sniff all the dos out and see 0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:19.120 who's who's That's exactly what they're doing. I want to say, 0:24:19.119 --> 0:24:24.360 who's ripe? Yes, that's not the right word. Hot hot 0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:28.520 hot dough. Ripe doesn't sound quite ripe, sounds like something 0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:30.879 my wife would be like, Really, it's a little bit 0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:37.359 too misera um, I feel like she would say, because 0:24:37.359 --> 0:24:44.919 there's gonna be another word for that ready hot dough. Yeah. Yeah. 0:24:45.080 --> 0:24:47.719 And because they're normally like the big coming to our 0:24:47.760 --> 0:24:54.040 breeding cycle. You guys knew that, yes, yes, uh, because 0:24:54.040 --> 0:24:57.320 they're normally so paranoid. Yeah, this time you're the throw 0:24:57.400 --> 0:25:01.040 caution to the wind to a degree, you know, for love, 0:25:02.359 --> 0:25:05.800 and I think we can all relate. I think we 0:25:05.920 --> 0:25:09.639 definitely witnessed it several times. There was, uh, you know, 0:25:09.760 --> 0:25:13.160 your closest call came into eleven. You called it out 0:25:13.320 --> 0:25:16.680 before that. He said, this is my favorite hour, eleven o'clock, 0:25:16.720 --> 0:25:21.560 and here comes the one that was the closest, right buck. 0:25:22.040 --> 0:25:26.080 But there were several other opportunities during that time. Yeah. 0:25:26.119 --> 0:25:28.399 Two of our last three days of doing the all 0:25:28.480 --> 0:25:31.520 day six we saw potential shooters in the middle of 0:25:31.520 --> 0:25:36.679 the day, um. And and lots of other bucks, younger bucks. Um. 0:25:36.720 --> 0:25:39.080 And I've seen at least every year now for a 0:25:39.119 --> 0:25:41.639 good number of years, I've had at least one mature 0:25:41.640 --> 0:25:44.760 buck encounter mid day. Um. And the thing is, if 0:25:44.760 --> 0:25:47.160 you talk to guys who take this really seriously. I've 0:25:47.200 --> 0:25:50.960 got a buddy who always always hunts all day and 0:25:51.000 --> 0:25:54.120 he consistently killed mature bucks. And if you look at 0:25:54.119 --> 0:25:56.080 the number of mature bucks that he's killed, I think 0:25:56.080 --> 0:25:59.280 he's taken seventeen or eighteen or nineteen of them during 0:25:59.320 --> 0:26:03.119 the middle of the day. Um. You look at the 0:26:03.200 --> 0:26:06.600 number of hours compared to hours hunted across the ward 0:26:06.600 --> 0:26:08.760 by other guys, Right, there's many more hours spent in 0:26:08.800 --> 0:26:13.480 the tree evening or morning, but there's a significant percentage 0:26:13.680 --> 0:26:16.240 killed midday by the fewer people that are actually hunting 0:26:16.240 --> 0:26:18.360 that time period. Yeah, like no one's there, but they're 0:26:18.359 --> 0:26:21.800 getting them. But they're getting them. Um, but it's tough. 0:26:21.920 --> 0:26:25.400 I mean, it's it's not necessarily fun now, Lauren, when 0:26:25.400 --> 0:26:29.560 you're up filming Mark Kenyon being in a tree all day, 0:26:30.000 --> 0:26:32.440 what's your perception of what's going on? Are you like, dude, 0:26:32.440 --> 0:26:34.639 this job sucks or do you feel like you're hunting? 0:26:36.480 --> 0:26:38.439 I think any time you're out there, you're kind of 0:26:38.440 --> 0:26:41.280 feeling like you're hunting. You're part of the hunt. You know. 0:26:41.400 --> 0:26:45.360 It definitely isn't the greatest deal sitting in a tree 0:26:45.400 --> 0:26:48.920 stand all day, especially a sling or a saddle or 0:26:50.359 --> 0:26:53.919 you know, it's not comfortable, so but you're definitely engaged 0:26:54.119 --> 0:26:59.159 looking for that one bucker, any deer, any movement the 0:26:59.200 --> 0:27:02.160 whole time. So it's kind of just like an assist, 0:27:02.240 --> 0:27:04.199 you know. That's how I feel about it. Are you 0:27:04.280 --> 0:27:06.600 periodically filming or do you let hours go by and 0:27:06.640 --> 0:27:10.160 not film anything? Well? I think that hours went by 0:27:10.240 --> 0:27:14.320 without filming for sure. Uh. You know, you're stuck in 0:27:14.520 --> 0:27:20.160 one place, so shot options become pretty limited. You get 0:27:20.160 --> 0:27:24.600 as creative as you can, but you know in retrospect, 0:27:24.640 --> 0:27:26.560 you're always like, oh, I should have done more, I 0:27:26.600 --> 0:27:29.639 should have done this or that. But you know, you 0:27:29.680 --> 0:27:33.520 can only shoot the same angle, same depth, same focal 0:27:33.600 --> 0:27:37.359 length so many times, so you're and too. We had 0:27:37.400 --> 0:27:41.640 a lot of opportunities on on does and fawns and 0:27:42.160 --> 0:27:46.879 not moving and lots of getting pinned down. Uh. So 0:27:46.920 --> 0:27:50.359 there's only so much dough footage you're going to shoot, 0:27:50.520 --> 0:27:53.760 so only so much of the interaction. Oh, I got 0:27:53.840 --> 0:27:56.600 a close up of the fawn eating. You know, I 0:27:56.640 --> 0:27:59.159 think I've got twelve of those, So do I need 0:27:59.200 --> 0:28:03.200 any more. I'm gonna stop filming that. We're going to 0:28:03.320 --> 0:28:09.200 not move, like what? How does I think At one 0:28:09.200 --> 0:28:13.040 point we were discussing, did he say what the are 0:28:13.080 --> 0:28:16.840 you doing? But then when we reviewed the footage and 0:28:16.920 --> 0:28:19.160 he he didn't say that, he said, what are you doing? 0:28:19.960 --> 0:28:25.240 What was I doing? I think I moved or you 0:28:25.280 --> 0:28:30.240 can't move like that? Yeah, you know, Ridge Poder were 0:28:30.280 --> 0:28:32.880 like an old We're like an old couple. Yeah, I'm 0:28:32.960 --> 0:28:37.800 like an old abusive husband. He was pretty gentle. He 0:28:37.840 --> 0:28:41.320 didn't really yell at me, but I get it. I 0:28:41.360 --> 0:28:46.720 think it's definitely, uh gets intense enough where you don't 0:28:46.720 --> 0:28:49.880 want to screw anything up, especially if you're on a 0:28:50.760 --> 0:28:54.640 you know, pretty high end hunt where you know you're 0:28:54.680 --> 0:28:57.400 the camera guy. If you messed this guy's hunt up, 0:28:57.560 --> 0:29:00.600 you're gonna hear about it, you know, And uh, that's 0:29:00.640 --> 0:29:02.360 the last thing you want to do is mess up 0:29:02.440 --> 0:29:05.880 somebody's hunt. So you're definitely part of the hunt. You're 0:29:05.920 --> 0:29:08.800 a hunter at that point because you're looking for the shot. 0:29:09.160 --> 0:29:11.239 I feel I felt bad a couple times. I think 0:29:11.280 --> 0:29:13.160 I apologized to once and I was like, I'm sorry. 0:29:13.200 --> 0:29:14.800 I think I get a little bossy up in the tree. 0:29:14.800 --> 0:29:19.520 I have like hunting turettes, were like, I can't help myself. 0:29:19.560 --> 0:29:21.840 I have to say, don't move, stop moving, Why are 0:29:21.840 --> 0:29:24.600 you moving? You can't move like that. A couple of 0:29:24.640 --> 0:29:28.040 times I'm like, oh, that you're six o'clock. We had 0:29:28.040 --> 0:29:31.360 our system down for sure, And and that happens real quick. 0:29:31.440 --> 0:29:33.680 The first day was brutal. The wind was blowing, it 0:29:33.760 --> 0:29:37.760 was twenty five degrees. We're both shivering, you know. At 0:29:37.760 --> 0:29:40.600 one point your teeth are chattering. You're like, oh my god, 0:29:40.640 --> 0:29:44.680 are we ever gonna be done with this? Uh? But 0:29:44.760 --> 0:29:48.160 then time goes on and dope pins you down or 0:29:48.240 --> 0:29:51.040 whatever happens I think we had you know, we got 0:29:51.120 --> 0:29:54.120 lucky because there were a lot of deer and a 0:29:54.160 --> 0:29:55.800 lot of stuff going on the whole time, so it 0:29:55.880 --> 0:29:58.160 kind of kept us busy in that respect. And then 0:29:58.840 --> 0:30:02.840 after three days, the third day flew by twelve hours. 0:30:02.960 --> 0:30:06.800 Was no big deal. What time of the day when 0:30:06.840 --> 0:30:10.120 you're doing a twelve hour mega sit? Got his twelve 0:30:10.200 --> 0:30:13.080 hours too, it's almost maybe longer than twelve bars. Well, 0:30:13.120 --> 0:30:16.160 we got in it getting the stand around six twelve bars, 0:30:16.160 --> 0:30:20.040 get out just after six. At what time of the 0:30:20.120 --> 0:30:22.120 day do you hit where you're like, oh, we made 0:30:22.120 --> 0:30:29.160 it three Yeah, I mean there's that point where ten 0:30:29.200 --> 0:30:34.560 o'clock rolls around You're like, oh god, it's a double shift. Well, yeah, 0:30:34.600 --> 0:30:36.960 So it was the first day we did I think 0:30:37.000 --> 0:30:39.480 it was we sat and then we went to this 0:30:39.520 --> 0:30:42.040 new spot and there was bucks chasing does all over 0:30:42.080 --> 0:30:43.840 the place. It was like it was a good morning, 0:30:44.240 --> 0:30:46.240 and it was probably around ten o'clock and I look 0:30:46.280 --> 0:30:47.920 at Laura. I'm like, I've got good news and bad 0:30:47.960 --> 0:30:50.560 news for it. Which do you want? And then he guessed. 0:30:50.560 --> 0:30:54.000 He's like, is the bad news that we're sitting all day? Yep, 0:30:56.400 --> 0:30:59.680 we're sitting all day with a good news because the love. Yeah, 0:30:59.720 --> 0:31:03.240 there was sons of deer. We counted yesterday. I think 0:31:03.240 --> 0:31:09.040 we saw thirty five that last count after that keeps 0:31:09.040 --> 0:31:11.840 you busy, and there was enough to do up there. 0:31:13.040 --> 0:31:16.200 Though it is totally uncomfortable. I mean, your feet go 0:31:16.360 --> 0:31:20.440 numb and I don't know. It's not not the greatest deal, 0:31:20.520 --> 0:31:24.360 but this is my first time ever bow hunting for 0:31:24.440 --> 0:31:31.240 white tails or any kind of deer um bow hunting 0:31:31.320 --> 0:31:38.680 on like a private managed property, where do you have 0:31:38.720 --> 0:31:44.600 a chance to grow old and to like be there. 0:31:44.720 --> 0:31:47.800 Knowing that you could see one of these bucks come by. 0:31:47.960 --> 0:31:52.280 It's four years old, keeps you, keeps you wanting to 0:31:52.320 --> 0:31:55.360 sit there because these are things you just read about. 0:31:55.600 --> 0:31:58.120 No them to be like that they actually might show up. 0:31:59.800 --> 0:32:01.480 You think it's gonna be easy, but it's not easy. 0:32:01.800 --> 0:32:04.200 It's still not easy. There's still too many things that 0:32:04.240 --> 0:32:06.160 could go wrong. But like no one they're out there 0:32:06.280 --> 0:32:09.680 is makes it intriguing. Man, no one they could roll 0:32:09.720 --> 0:32:12.960 around the corner. How many opportunities did you have mark 0:32:13.320 --> 0:32:16.520 on two and a half year olds? Oh, we could 0:32:16.520 --> 0:32:18.080 have killed a lot two and a half year olds, 0:32:18.520 --> 0:32:21.160 a good handful of them, lots of year and a 0:32:21.160 --> 0:32:24.440 half olds, a couple three year olds, one three year old, 0:32:24.440 --> 0:32:26.520 maybe two three ye olds. I can't remember, dude. That's 0:32:26.520 --> 0:32:31.880 where you're screwed up. Man Like, like, explain to people 0:32:31.880 --> 0:32:33.560 what you talk about. You talk about a mature buck 0:32:33.600 --> 0:32:35.560 because you always use the word mature buck. You don't 0:32:35.560 --> 0:32:39.160 put like a number to it. Yeah, so I I 0:32:39.240 --> 0:32:43.960 would typically call four or older mature. Some people will 0:32:44.000 --> 0:32:46.240 say three year older. In Michigan, the three year old 0:32:46.240 --> 0:32:49.600 is if it's everything's relative, right in Michigan, a three 0:32:49.680 --> 0:32:52.200 year old in most places is the most the most 0:32:52.240 --> 0:32:54.120 mature buck you might have around. But you don't mean 0:32:54.200 --> 0:32:57.160 sexually mature, because they're sexually sexually mature at one and 0:32:57.160 --> 0:33:01.400 a half correct? Correct? So what do is mature? Yeah? 0:33:01.840 --> 0:33:04.680 You know, why not to say big as bucks in 0:33:04.720 --> 0:33:08.360 the eye of beholder, Right, it's in the eye behold. 0:33:08.400 --> 0:33:11.280 It's all relative. But when you get to four or five, 0:33:11.640 --> 0:33:15.320 four plus, you were at that top percentile of age 0:33:15.320 --> 0:33:20.560 and most populations and in any state really, um, you know, 0:33:20.640 --> 0:33:22.280 I think people would look at year and a half 0:33:22.280 --> 0:33:25.920 old bucks being like your I don't know, like a 0:33:25.920 --> 0:33:29.800 ten year old, like a young child. The way they act, 0:33:29.920 --> 0:33:32.160 the way they think, the way they operate. You get 0:33:32.160 --> 0:33:33.760 to a two year old, you've got like a young 0:33:33.880 --> 0:33:37.080 teenage type deer. You know, you got your fifteen year 0:33:37.120 --> 0:33:40.239 old boy running around being crazy. You get two three 0:33:40.320 --> 0:33:43.040 year old that's like your college kid. That's dude out 0:33:43.040 --> 0:33:45.240 of the bar. Yeah, he's like they're hitting the bars. 0:33:45.280 --> 0:33:47.240 But they're there. They can be like the big boy 0:33:47.240 --> 0:33:49.440 in town in some places, like they can walk around 0:33:49.440 --> 0:33:51.280 their chest out. They were pretty good and strong, but 0:33:51.320 --> 0:33:53.880 they still don't quite have it. But when you reach four, 0:33:54.640 --> 0:33:57.840 that's like you're I think a four year old is 0:33:57.880 --> 0:34:00.120 like a thirty one year old. He's in the PC 0:34:00.120 --> 0:34:19.920 of everything. Um wow, okay, so yeah, four or five, six, 0:34:20.000 --> 0:34:24.080 you're getting to they've they've they've achieved whatever whatever. Bodies 0:34:24.680 --> 0:34:28.799 structurally skeletally mature. That's what I've missed. That's a good point. 0:34:28.920 --> 0:34:32.799 Yet they have a weird way. They look different. When 0:34:32.800 --> 0:34:38.719 they get that will for sure everything about them. You 0:34:38.760 --> 0:34:43.000 see them from hundreds of yards away, and you know 0:34:43.040 --> 0:34:46.440 what you're looking at. Definitely where they carry their head, 0:34:47.280 --> 0:34:50.960 the neck, the chest, it's all. It's it's almost a 0:34:50.960 --> 0:34:56.680 different animal. And just how deliberate they almost look like 0:34:57.920 --> 0:35:04.120 in their head they're gone they seem like old men, 0:35:04.400 --> 0:35:07.560 is what they seemed like a day. How old are you, 0:35:07.600 --> 0:35:11.319 Steve Man? So I'd say a four year old plus 0:35:11.360 --> 0:35:14.840 kind of like a forty four year old person. Damn it, 0:35:15.760 --> 0:35:19.600 halfway to eighty eight man. But here's the deal. Let's 0:35:19.640 --> 0:35:21.640 say he snapped both of his antlers off. You wouldn't 0:35:21.640 --> 0:35:24.040 shoot him even though he's four and a half. You know, 0:35:24.320 --> 0:35:27.399 I had an interesting scenario like that two years ago 0:35:28.200 --> 0:35:30.719 with not to bring up the same deer again every 0:35:30.719 --> 0:35:32.759 time I ever talked to you, but holy Field broke 0:35:32.800 --> 0:35:34.839 off part of his main beam. I like hearing about 0:35:34.840 --> 0:35:38.520 this deer and I thought him to be four years 0:35:38.520 --> 0:35:41.160 old that year, and he snapped out half his antler, 0:35:41.320 --> 0:35:43.280 and I was faced with this question. I was like, well, 0:35:43.320 --> 0:35:46.040 it's the buck OFT been hunting forever at that point, 0:35:46.360 --> 0:35:49.719 I've been two years. He's mature. But he lost half 0:35:49.719 --> 0:35:51.479 his antler. What would a lot of people are asking 0:35:51.520 --> 0:35:53.000 what here gonna do? What are gonna do? And I said, 0:35:53.000 --> 0:35:55.440 I'm still gonna shoot him. But if he had knocked 0:35:55.440 --> 0:35:59.080 off both of his antlers, in my thought, it would 0:35:59.080 --> 0:36:02.960 be if I were to take that deer, I want 0:36:02.960 --> 0:36:05.200 to take that deer, like as I knew him, if 0:36:05.200 --> 0:36:08.680 that makes sense at all, So come on, it makes sense. 0:36:08.719 --> 0:36:15.480 But come one part of it, part of that how 0:36:15.520 --> 0:36:19.960 do I describe it? Mental masturbation? You kill it, you 0:36:20.040 --> 0:36:21.879 kill a deer, and you take it, and you take 0:36:21.920 --> 0:36:24.560 the meat, you consume the meat, but then you also 0:36:24.680 --> 0:36:27.040 have some kind of a mento to remember that animal body. 0:36:28.239 --> 0:36:31.080 So that antler, his antlers, the mountain. That would be 0:36:31.120 --> 0:36:33.440 an important part of that hunt for me to be 0:36:33.440 --> 0:36:36.120 able look at that, remember that, see that, and it 0:36:36.160 --> 0:36:38.880 would just feel it just be a just be a 0:36:38.880 --> 0:36:41.439 bummer to kill him and not be able to see 0:36:41.520 --> 0:36:45.160 him in all his glory again. And why I wouldn't 0:36:45.200 --> 0:36:47.280 want to kill something and then feel like a bummer 0:36:47.280 --> 0:36:49.239 about it afterwards. Let me put it this, let me 0:36:49.360 --> 0:36:54.120 do this to you. Let's say you found it. Let's 0:36:54.120 --> 0:36:56.040 say you had him because you found where he snapped 0:36:56.080 --> 0:37:01.440 him off. I guess in that case then yeah, because 0:37:01.480 --> 0:37:05.120 you could you could just the tax dumers could could 0:37:05.120 --> 0:37:11.879 fix it. Um. But yeah, it's an interesting question. Now 0:37:12.000 --> 0:37:15.920 holy Field was the uh you think that buck's dead? 0:37:16.320 --> 0:37:19.359 I think so I found a shed in February thinking 0:37:19.440 --> 0:37:22.080 still like found Zandler. So that mean as he made 0:37:22.080 --> 0:37:24.640 it into the winter. Figured he'd be back this year, 0:37:24.680 --> 0:37:27.520 but have gotten zero pictures, zero sightings. None of the 0:37:27.560 --> 0:37:29.960 neighbors I talked to have seen him or gotten pictures. 0:37:29.960 --> 0:37:32.120 So what do you think he's where? Where do you 0:37:32.160 --> 0:37:35.000 where do you think he's dead from? Well, we found 0:37:35.239 --> 0:37:37.799 I found his shed early, So I found it at 0:37:37.840 --> 0:37:41.319 the very beginning of February, late January. So as an 0:37:41.360 --> 0:37:44.799 early drop, lots of times early antler drop is indicative 0:37:44.880 --> 0:37:50.440 of health issues, nutrition, something like that. So my theory 0:37:50.600 --> 0:37:53.839 is that maybe he got shot by someone in gun 0:37:53.880 --> 0:37:56.200 Seas he had injured in some way, So he had 0:37:56.200 --> 0:38:00.439 an injury, dropped his antler early, and he's to come 0:38:00.440 --> 0:38:04.200 to die off over the winter, wouldn't kill or something 0:38:04.239 --> 0:38:06.319 like that. I was bear hunting one time at May 0:38:06.440 --> 0:38:08.880 and saw a bull elk still packing his antlers around? 0:38:09.640 --> 0:38:12.759 Is that pretty unusually? Honest? I've seen quite a few. 0:38:12.920 --> 0:38:15.680 I had some of my best elk. I don't do 0:38:15.719 --> 0:38:19.480 a lot of it, but elk shed picking days um 0:38:19.600 --> 0:38:23.480 late in May. We on my birthday still dropping. Well 0:38:23.680 --> 0:38:25.719 just you know when you go there and they're all 0:38:25.800 --> 0:38:28.759 on top of the grass, nothing's going over him, They're 0:38:28.760 --> 0:38:31.400 all just brown laying there. You know like it just 0:38:31.480 --> 0:38:36.160 recently happened. I'm with you, m to what degree if 0:38:36.200 --> 0:38:37.680 you like to, if you're if you're a guy that 0:38:37.719 --> 0:38:41.000 wants to kill mature white tail box, I mean one, 0:38:41.000 --> 0:38:45.359 they got to be there, absolutely in many places. That's 0:38:45.960 --> 0:38:48.440 the biggest thing keeping to them killing them is that 0:38:48.520 --> 0:38:50.160 they're not there. Yeah, they didn't exist when I was 0:38:50.160 --> 0:38:53.560 a kid and I grew up ninety miles from here, 0:38:56.160 --> 0:38:59.719 they really did. I mean, I don't want you think 0:38:59.760 --> 0:39:03.480 that's to find him a point out. Okay, We hunted 0:39:03.880 --> 0:39:08.279 uh public land north of us a little bit, and 0:39:08.320 --> 0:39:13.840 we hunted some large farms. We hunted some large farms 0:39:13.960 --> 0:39:16.520 very near our house, within an eight mile All the 0:39:16.560 --> 0:39:19.680 honey we did, unless we went out to Baldwin so 0:39:19.760 --> 0:39:21.600 on public land, all the honey we deal was an 0:39:21.640 --> 0:39:26.120 eight mile radius less than eight mile radius of our house. Okay, 0:39:26.160 --> 0:39:30.160 and unt some large farms, two farms, and my people, 0:39:30.239 --> 0:39:32.680 my my father knew from church families. My father knew 0:39:32.719 --> 0:39:34.960 from church and let us hunt out there where these 0:39:35.000 --> 0:39:39.719 were like three and four acre dairy operations where they 0:39:39.719 --> 0:39:43.560 were running dairy and they were growing corn and raised 0:39:43.600 --> 0:39:48.800 alfalfa to feed cows. And they had river bottoms, thickets 0:39:48.840 --> 0:39:52.440 like the whole picture, okay, And these two farms were 0:39:52.520 --> 0:39:59.319 virtually up against one another over the entirety of over 0:39:59.400 --> 0:40:04.000 the entire I ready of my until I moved to Montana. 0:40:07.520 --> 0:40:09.840 I and my old man's one shot and shot with 0:40:09.880 --> 0:40:15.800 his bow. One time of all those years of everyone 0:40:15.920 --> 0:40:18.239 hunting in the farmers kids hunting and us hunting, and 0:40:18.280 --> 0:40:21.960 everyone hunting and then surrounding, only one time that a 0:40:22.000 --> 0:40:24.000 buck that I now recognized to have been the three 0:40:24.000 --> 0:40:26.680 and a half ye old buck ever come off anywhere. 0:40:27.080 --> 0:40:31.080 I never laid eyes on one, dead or alive. I 0:40:31.160 --> 0:40:33.600 do not think you could read. I do not think 0:40:33.640 --> 0:40:35.160 they could reach three and a half years of age 0:40:37.200 --> 0:40:39.759 unless they lived in some deep, dark swamp hole that 0:40:39.800 --> 0:40:42.040 nobody went to. Ever, the one my dad killed, you 0:40:42.120 --> 0:40:45.879 killed on the edge of a pine plantation, small little 0:40:45.920 --> 0:40:51.120 thing called the pines. We ain't mark. You think years 0:40:51.120 --> 0:40:53.640 ago Michigan had any big box or are they just 0:40:53.680 --> 0:40:57.680 not around? I think that Steve's right for them to 0:40:58.040 --> 0:41:01.560 like to to a degree, there were definitely fewer of them. 0:41:01.920 --> 0:41:05.000 There were there were mature bucks around, but there are 0:41:05.160 --> 0:41:08.560 few and far between. And then number two, I do 0:41:08.680 --> 0:41:12.040 also think that years ago people weren't as tuned into 0:41:12.040 --> 0:41:15.399 how to kill mature bucks too, So it's much people 0:41:15.400 --> 0:41:17.200 are much more savvy now and the things you need 0:41:17.239 --> 0:41:19.640 to be doing to see and kill mature bucks. Back then, 0:41:19.640 --> 0:41:22.160 it was kind of head out of the most people 0:41:22.320 --> 0:41:24.120 head out in the woods next to a tree trunk 0:41:24.200 --> 0:41:26.360 or something like that, or get up and sit on 0:41:26.400 --> 0:41:29.319 a tree branch and shoot something over a carrot pile, 0:41:29.560 --> 0:41:32.360 because you weren't running cameras either, so you didn't know 0:41:32.880 --> 0:41:35.040 if you didn't know. If you knew one was out there, 0:41:35.040 --> 0:41:37.080 then you'd like change everything to go get them, but 0:41:37.120 --> 0:41:39.440 you didn't know they were out there. The one my 0:41:39.480 --> 0:41:42.880 old man killed, he didn't know what exists until it 0:41:42.880 --> 0:41:47.640 walked under the tree, right. Yeah, But I do think 0:41:47.840 --> 0:41:50.319 culture has changed so much that allows a lot more 0:41:50.360 --> 0:41:52.480 dear to to reach that age. So probably the biggest 0:41:52.480 --> 0:41:54.920 thing is just that the number of mature bucks around, 0:41:54.920 --> 0:41:57.400 it's just higher now. I remember being in high school 0:41:58.200 --> 0:42:02.480 and one of the farms we hunted on and one 0:42:02.520 --> 0:42:04.640 of the kids, Tim, who was still a big time 0:42:04.680 --> 0:42:06.719 hunter to day and and does a really good job. 0:42:06.760 --> 0:42:09.560 He's got a small property now but does a very 0:42:09.600 --> 0:42:13.200 good job with wildlife. Habitat on his place. He was 0:42:13.239 --> 0:42:15.520 the first guy. And I was in high school and 0:42:15.560 --> 0:42:19.280 I heard Tim's are a lot had passed on multiple bucks, 0:42:20.080 --> 0:42:21.920 and I remember thinking like, something must be wrong with 0:42:21.960 --> 0:42:25.120 that dude's head. But he was a revolute he was 0:42:25.160 --> 0:42:28.640 like a pioneer man. He was a revolutionary at the time. 0:42:29.680 --> 0:42:34.040 It's like passing on bucks you crazy. And he had 0:42:34.080 --> 0:42:37.600 gotten good enough where he could do it. We used 0:42:37.640 --> 0:42:39.759 to think a big buck a big buck was just 0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:41.279 a year and a half old buck. To put more 0:42:41.320 --> 0:42:44.439 times on. My brother Danny shot with his bowl one time. 0:42:44.520 --> 0:42:49.080 He shot an eight point and got it stuffed. It's 0:42:49.080 --> 0:42:51.480 still hanging in my mom's house. It's a year and 0:42:51.480 --> 0:42:53.880 a half old buck. In our head. It was a giant. 0:42:53.920 --> 0:42:55.719 I remember he shot it and put a hole right 0:42:55.719 --> 0:42:57.520 through its heart. It took three steps and fell over 0:42:57.600 --> 0:43:00.640 it on itself, and he got a mount it and 0:43:00.680 --> 0:43:03.160 we you wouldn't believe we went through the drag dead 0:43:03.200 --> 0:43:05.080 deer ahole because the last you'd ever do was cut 0:43:05.080 --> 0:43:07.440 a buck off in the woods because you want to 0:43:07.440 --> 0:43:10.000 go show everybody. And it was like Danny killed the 0:43:10.040 --> 0:43:11.880 eight point. Danny killed eight point. But there was no 0:43:12.040 --> 0:43:14.560 perception it's just the same thing. It's just the same 0:43:14.640 --> 0:43:19.000 year and a half old buck. We thought that the points, yeah, 0:43:19.040 --> 0:43:21.880 exactly on those points. I think that puts it in perspective. 0:43:21.920 --> 0:43:26.480 I didn't growing up. I was taught that like Spiker 0:43:26.600 --> 0:43:29.879 far Horn was one year old, and then if he's 0:43:29.880 --> 0:43:32.479 the six point, he's probably two years old at eight 0:43:32.520 --> 0:43:35.799 points three, and Ted it's probably four years old, no 0:43:35.840 --> 0:43:38.479 matter the size. You know, in our family, we didn't 0:43:38.520 --> 0:43:40.320 even talk about age at all. It was just the points. 0:43:40.560 --> 0:43:42.760 It was like, oh, he's a spike, he's a six point. 0:43:42.920 --> 0:43:45.279 Never once did say it was probably three or five. 0:43:46.200 --> 0:43:49.080 It was the same much. My first buck was an 0:43:49.120 --> 0:43:51.160 eight pointer and I got it mounted and I thought 0:43:51.160 --> 0:43:53.839 it was the biggest damn buck ever. But it's well 0:43:53.920 --> 0:43:58.000 under a hundred inches. When when I shot a thing, 0:43:58.040 --> 0:44:01.239 I was like and disbelieve A thought it was a 0:44:01.360 --> 0:44:05.960 giant because someone getting an eight point got everyone's attention. 0:44:05.960 --> 0:44:07.440 But now you look at him, you're like, yeah, it's 0:44:07.440 --> 0:44:09.600 just like a he just a year and a half old. 0:44:10.239 --> 0:44:12.280 So point being, I don't think that they were around 0:44:12.320 --> 0:44:16.960 and then culture changed. I think that a couple of 0:44:16.960 --> 0:44:19.600 things that led to it. In a handful of places 0:44:19.640 --> 0:44:22.960 like information about what it required to grow a big box. 0:44:22.960 --> 0:44:27.799 And I think kind of a changing people. This is 0:44:27.840 --> 0:44:31.560 like some old man ship here, but but a lot 0:44:31.640 --> 0:44:34.320 has changed around the way people handle permissions and stuff 0:44:34.320 --> 0:44:37.239 on their properties. And I think that at the like 0:44:37.320 --> 0:44:43.040 when I was coming into the world, there were a 0:44:43.080 --> 0:44:46.080 lot of properties around us, farms and stuff around us 0:44:46.080 --> 0:44:48.960 where the farmer wasn't even exactly clear on who was 0:44:49.080 --> 0:44:55.719 hunting there. People just hunt, you know, if someone gave 0:44:55.760 --> 0:44:58.160 you permission years ago, you just kept going on until 0:44:58.160 --> 0:45:00.279 they told you not to go any more. And so 0:45:00.320 --> 0:45:02.120 I think that there was more. I think that later, 0:45:02.160 --> 0:45:04.839 when people started to recognize the value of dear more, 0:45:05.000 --> 0:45:08.239 they started to kind of like wanting to know who 0:45:08.320 --> 0:45:10.319 was out there, and it just it wasn't like such 0:45:10.320 --> 0:45:14.120 a free for all, you know, I had I would 0:45:14.120 --> 0:45:17.560 have hunting permission on farms where every person that asked 0:45:17.560 --> 0:45:22.440 had hunting permission. No rhyme reads to it. I just 0:45:22.719 --> 0:45:25.160 like that kind of stuff has just come to an end. 0:45:27.239 --> 0:45:30.160 It's tough to come by. I was sitting next to 0:45:30.200 --> 0:45:33.200 the the there, and I I was sitting at dinner 0:45:33.239 --> 0:45:37.240 with you have met or heard of Shane Mahoney. Everyone 0:45:37.280 --> 0:45:41.360 here so he's kind of a preeminent expert on the 0:45:41.400 --> 0:45:45.320 North American model wildlife conservation. He's kind of like a 0:45:45.320 --> 0:45:51.799 conservationist philosopher type figure. So how you describe me like that? 0:45:52.520 --> 0:45:54.879 He saw him about just the way it's become hard 0:45:54.960 --> 0:45:56.920 for new hunters. The way it's become hard for young 0:45:57.000 --> 0:46:03.800 hunters is those days are kind of done when you 0:46:03.800 --> 0:46:09.680 could just wander around hunting on people's land, on neighbor's land, 0:46:09.719 --> 0:46:11.680 and you know the farms where everyone can just kind 0:46:11.680 --> 0:46:13.279 of go where you take your twenty two and ride 0:46:13.280 --> 0:46:15.200 out on your bike and go. And he said, there's 0:46:15.239 --> 0:46:17.960 all these programs now they're like meant to sort of 0:46:17.960 --> 0:46:20.239 like recreate that, because that you're not going to recreate it, 0:46:23.120 --> 0:46:26.440 and and and if there's an upside to this, the 0:46:26.520 --> 0:46:28.120 upside of this is I think there's a lot more 0:46:28.120 --> 0:46:32.879 big bucks running around now as people like exercise more 0:46:32.960 --> 0:46:36.080 control over their stuff. And I don't know what good 0:46:36.120 --> 0:46:41.040 big bucks really are. Besides they look cool, they represent something. 0:46:41.320 --> 0:46:47.360 They represent an ecosystem, well at least a species of 0:46:47.440 --> 0:46:52.920 population that is in balance in a natural state. If 0:46:53.000 --> 0:46:55.480 you looked at the deer herd in Michigan in nineteen 0:46:55.680 --> 0:47:00.160 seventy or something like that or whenever you get are 0:47:00.200 --> 0:47:08.120 hunting around or whatever this was. Um it looks like, um, 0:47:08.280 --> 0:47:12.719 that was a very askew deer herd. Heavy heavy on 0:47:12.760 --> 0:47:16.680 the dos, very light on any type of mature bucks. 0:47:16.719 --> 0:47:18.759 Just tons and tons of year natural bucks. That's not 0:47:18.800 --> 0:47:22.000 a natural herd of deer as as it would be 0:47:22.040 --> 0:47:24.680 in you know, several hundred years ago when it wasn't 0:47:24.800 --> 0:47:27.520 as impacted by what we're doing. But now you are 0:47:27.560 --> 0:47:31.000 finding some places where you have a more natural herd, 0:47:31.160 --> 0:47:33.640 which is which is beneficial, not just for hunters I'd 0:47:33.640 --> 0:47:37.360 like to see big bucks, but having a relatively balanced 0:47:37.360 --> 0:47:40.000 age structure that's good for the whole herd. And what 0:47:40.000 --> 0:47:42.320 way is that good for the herd? So, for example, 0:47:42.360 --> 0:47:45.840 if you have more mature bucks and you have a 0:47:45.880 --> 0:47:48.760 balanced kind of structure of the different ages and things 0:47:48.800 --> 0:47:51.759 and balanced with the does, you're gonna have a more 0:47:52.000 --> 0:47:54.480 tight rut. If you have a tight rut, if you 0:47:54.480 --> 0:47:59.080 have a well timed rut happens consistently in a small window, 0:47:59.360 --> 0:48:01.560 you gonna have a better fawn dropping, tight fawn drop, 0:48:01.600 --> 0:48:05.000 a well placed fawn drop that is conducive for the 0:48:05.080 --> 0:48:08.880 females and the fawns to be most healthy grown up 0:48:08.880 --> 0:48:11.239 the next year. So if you get um, let me 0:48:11.400 --> 0:48:13.879 describe the opposite scenario. If you have a scenario where 0:48:13.880 --> 0:48:17.000 you've got lots and lots of does, not many mature bucks, 0:48:17.000 --> 0:48:19.120 just a bunch of year and affle bucks, you're gonna 0:48:19.120 --> 0:48:21.760 get does coming into heat and bread at all different 0:48:21.800 --> 0:48:24.640 times of the year in the fall, so we're gonna 0:48:24.640 --> 0:48:27.920 say a very spread out trickle run does and getting 0:48:27.960 --> 0:48:30.440 bread in mid October all the way to mid December, 0:48:31.120 --> 0:48:34.160 scattered all around. So you've got fawns dropping in March, 0:48:34.280 --> 0:48:37.160 you got fawns dropping and may not March. You got 0:48:37.200 --> 0:48:40.200 them dropping in late April, mid May, early in June. 0:48:40.840 --> 0:48:43.279 You want to have a tight drop if you have 0:48:43.320 --> 0:48:47.040 fawns dropping all the same time, less coyote predation. If 0:48:47.040 --> 0:48:48.960 you have them dropping at the right time that's not 0:48:49.040 --> 0:48:52.360 too early that they're freezing and not having nutrition available, 0:48:52.400 --> 0:48:55.160 but not so late that they're getting a late start 0:48:55.280 --> 0:48:59.359 on being able to go in the winter. Small exactly, Um, 0:48:59.520 --> 0:49:01.640 So that that I mean, there's a whole bunch of 0:49:01.640 --> 0:49:03.600 different things on those lines that lay a couple of 0:49:03.600 --> 0:49:06.920 things in here. Real quick. No, you're not rambling at all. 0:49:08.040 --> 0:49:12.000 But I remember in those in that era, it was 0:49:12.080 --> 0:49:14.400 common to hear that you had bucked to dough ratios 0:49:14.400 --> 0:49:18.279 of twenty or thirty does to every buck. And I 0:49:18.280 --> 0:49:20.560 remember when I learned that they were born basically one 0:49:20.640 --> 0:49:26.360 to one ratio. It's kind of shocking to see that 0:49:26.360 --> 0:49:30.040 that level of of harvest on the bucks. But it's 0:49:30.080 --> 0:49:31.919 a thing that like, and I've talked about this before. 0:49:31.920 --> 0:49:33.640 I don't know if I talked about it here, but 0:49:35.160 --> 0:49:38.240 when we had like largely kind of eliminated deer really 0:49:38.320 --> 0:49:42.040 knocked deer back bad. You know, even coming up into 0:49:42.080 --> 0:49:44.800 the into the nineteen thirties nineteen forties, just weren't that 0:49:44.840 --> 0:49:50.400 any deer around. Um, people became very like like it was, 0:49:50.520 --> 0:49:55.319 it became culturally taboo to shoot. Does I remember, like 0:49:55.640 --> 0:49:57.560 in this era we're talking about when I was a kid, 0:49:57.600 --> 0:50:01.920 there were a lot of old timers that would like 0:50:02.160 --> 0:50:06.919 disparage someone who shot a dough And because you wanted 0:50:06.960 --> 0:50:09.440 to get a deer, you just shot the box and 0:50:09.520 --> 0:50:13.080 you shot every damn buck anyone ever laid eyes on 0:50:13.200 --> 0:50:16.399 got shot, and you'd wind up with these situations where 0:50:16.440 --> 0:50:20.960 you had, like I said, twenty to thirty dolls for 0:50:21.040 --> 0:50:26.200 every book and the box were all most books were 0:50:26.200 --> 0:50:34.759 not living in to see their second December. Even relatively recently, 0:50:35.520 --> 0:50:37.960 that was still the case in a lot of states. So, 0:50:38.040 --> 0:50:40.840 for example, in Michigan, and I'm gonna get the numbers 0:50:41.400 --> 0:50:46.399 not quite right, um, but some number of years ago, 0:50:46.400 --> 0:50:49.879 maybe it's ten years ago, give a take the percentage 0:50:49.880 --> 0:50:52.319 of the buck harvest in Michigan. If I remember right, 0:50:52.360 --> 0:50:54.359 someone's gonna email you and say I'm wrong, but it's 0:50:54.400 --> 0:50:59.319 somewhere in this ball park, something like se of all 0:50:59.360 --> 0:51:01.960 the bucks, maybe more of all the bucks killed in 0:51:02.000 --> 0:51:05.480 Michigan were year and a half olds. Now it has 0:51:05.560 --> 0:51:09.080 dropped down to so significantly improved, but still one of 0:51:09.080 --> 0:51:12.560 the highest in the country, something like fifty five percent 0:51:12.680 --> 0:51:15.040 or fifty some percent now, I think is the number 0:51:15.600 --> 0:51:18.920 of the bucks killed in Michigan annually are year and 0:51:18.920 --> 0:51:23.040 a half old, um, And that's still like the top 0:51:23.080 --> 0:51:25.800 five in the country. But now across the entire country 0:51:26.760 --> 0:51:31.200 several years ago, for the first time, an age class 0:51:31.239 --> 0:51:34.560 different than year and a half olds is a higher 0:51:34.560 --> 0:51:36.640 percentage of the buck harvests than year and a halfl 0:51:36.719 --> 0:51:42.799 So yeah, so now bucks over three comprise overt of 0:51:42.880 --> 0:51:46.400 the harvest. If you look at across the country, and 0:51:46.440 --> 0:51:48.560 this has changed over the last fifteen and twenty years, 0:51:48.600 --> 0:51:53.560 has just been dropping down. So why don't why don't 0:51:53.560 --> 0:51:57.040 guys that are big into white tail management? Why don't 0:51:57.120 --> 0:51:59.960 they let I know, the answer to this is Poe 0:52:00.040 --> 0:52:07.440 using it. Why don't if you want balanced age structure, 0:52:07.680 --> 0:52:10.919 why don't they let the once they hit four? Why 0:52:10.920 --> 0:52:15.319 don't they become hands off? Why be like, oh, we 0:52:15.360 --> 0:52:17.440 want to make older box, we wanna make older bucks, 0:52:17.680 --> 0:52:20.520 but then systematically kill off every buck that gets to 0:52:20.560 --> 0:52:24.000 be that same threshold age. Why is there not a 0:52:24.040 --> 0:52:27.759 movement to or or like a management strategy be like 0:52:27.880 --> 0:52:31.400 to get to be like post trophy and say like, 0:52:31.440 --> 0:52:33.920 oh yeah, man, if he hits four and a half, 0:52:35.760 --> 0:52:37.799 what one in a hundred bucks or whatever it is 0:52:38.160 --> 0:52:39.839 will be four in half. So as big as they're 0:52:39.840 --> 0:52:43.160 gonna get, then we let those go because we're gonna 0:52:43.160 --> 0:52:45.560 create five year old, six year old, seven year old. 0:52:45.920 --> 0:52:47.960 But instead they get that big and people just get 0:52:48.000 --> 0:52:50.680 so lusty for him they want them dead. So it 0:52:50.719 --> 0:52:52.719 makes it hard to argue that you're really trying to 0:52:52.760 --> 0:52:55.279 have these like age classes in places it seems like 0:52:55.600 --> 0:52:57.840 you're just walking What you're really trying to do is 0:52:57.880 --> 0:52:59.840 have big box because you want to shoot big bucks, 0:53:00.400 --> 0:53:02.520 and and you're trying to like act like there's some 0:53:03.120 --> 0:53:09.560 biology or or a college or conservation at work when 0:53:09.560 --> 0:53:13.520 it's like, oh, how convenient, I think. I mean, I 0:53:13.560 --> 0:53:15.719 don't think anyone's gonna argue the fact that anyone who 0:53:15.800 --> 0:53:18.759 is managing deer also wants to hunt deer. They want 0:53:18.800 --> 0:53:22.919 to take some deer. So yes, so there's gonna each 0:53:22.960 --> 0:53:25.560 person is going to set a different goal that is 0:53:25.600 --> 0:53:28.880 going to hopefully achieve something beneficial for the her, but 0:53:28.920 --> 0:53:31.080 also they've got to have a goal as far as 0:53:31.080 --> 0:53:32.960 what they want to try to hunt in harvest. And 0:53:33.440 --> 0:53:36.319 if you start saying that, you know, I want to 0:53:36.360 --> 0:53:38.400 wait for six or seven or eight or nine year 0:53:38.400 --> 0:53:40.319 old bucks, you're simply never gonna shoot you bucks then, 0:53:40.360 --> 0:53:43.160 because it's really really hard to get bucks over four, 0:53:43.400 --> 0:53:47.160 let alone over five um. Even on big managed properties. 0:53:47.600 --> 0:53:49.479 It's just not an easy thing to do because even 0:53:49.480 --> 0:53:51.400 if you have a large property, these deers still go 0:53:51.440 --> 0:53:55.200 all over the place. UM. So it's no guaranteed thing 0:53:55.320 --> 0:53:56.879 that if you pass on a four year old he's 0:53:56.880 --> 0:53:59.319 gonna make to five um. Whether you're on a hunt 0:53:59.360 --> 0:54:01.399 ac or property or a thousand maker property that's not 0:54:01.560 --> 0:54:04.319 a guarantee, So that just kind of wants up being 0:54:04.360 --> 0:54:10.160 about as old. Like, there's so fewer five or year 0:54:10.200 --> 0:54:13.520 olds and four year olds even yeahs, I don't know 0:54:13.600 --> 0:54:17.920 of anyone. Even the folks that take management to the 0:54:18.000 --> 0:54:21.840 highest level have great, big properties. Um, they can control 0:54:21.840 --> 0:54:24.160 a lot of acreage. I don't know anyone that really 0:54:24.160 --> 0:54:26.680 looks at targeting anything over five. Five is kind of 0:54:26.680 --> 0:54:29.160 like that. If it's over five, it is fully mature, 0:54:29.800 --> 0:54:32.960 it has has kind of reached the pinnacle as far 0:54:33.000 --> 0:54:36.719 as body size, antler size. It's it's it's it's um 0:54:36.920 --> 0:54:39.919 expressed whatever genetic potential there. It is. What he's gonna 0:54:39.920 --> 0:54:42.000 be is what he's gonna be, and that's a fully 0:54:42.040 --> 0:54:44.560 mature deer that's gonna do everything that the mature dear 0:54:44.600 --> 0:54:46.680 is gonna do. And if you can get them older 0:54:46.680 --> 0:54:50.680 than that, great, but that's hard to ask for. UM, 0:54:50.719 --> 0:54:52.520 So five year olds or what most people kind of 0:54:52.560 --> 0:54:54.680 set as that top end. During this week, tell me 0:54:54.760 --> 0:54:58.840 about the or I can start the encounters you had 0:54:58.880 --> 0:55:05.640 with with um, the closest encounters you had with mature 0:55:05.719 --> 0:55:10.600 bucks and what what went wrong? Yeah, well I had one. 0:55:11.480 --> 0:55:13.399 I had one encounter on the ture buck for sure, 0:55:13.440 --> 0:55:15.759 mature buck? Do you wanna tell my story? Do you 0:55:15.760 --> 0:55:20.080 want to start with yours? You go ahead? No, dude, 0:55:20.160 --> 0:55:28.200 whatever you decide, Mark, you should go first. Okay, they 0:55:28.280 --> 0:55:31.359 had it began and ended so fast like they do. 0:55:33.360 --> 0:55:38.200 So I'm I'm perched up in a really shitty tree powder. 0:55:38.239 --> 0:55:40.799 I don't think I'm gonna talk about the one that 0:55:41.000 --> 0:55:45.040 you screwed up, because I don't think he was four 0:55:45.080 --> 0:55:46.279 and a half. I think he was like three and 0:55:46.320 --> 0:55:47.799 a half or something like that. What do you think 0:55:47.840 --> 0:55:50.919 he was? Mark? So I that's not the deer I saw. 0:55:51.040 --> 0:55:52.600 The deer I saw? Was that the one that you 0:55:52.640 --> 0:55:56.000 screwed up? The big one? The other one that's a 0:55:56.040 --> 0:55:59.239 mature buck. I didn't see the big, big one, but 0:55:59.280 --> 0:56:01.880 I'm talking with the other one. But did you screw 0:56:01.920 --> 0:56:05.960 that up? No? I screwed up? Well, I in that 0:56:06.080 --> 0:56:08.680 I'm a person that has an order to him, not 0:56:08.760 --> 0:56:11.920 an unusual order. In fact, my wife comments, I'm not 0:56:12.040 --> 0:56:19.240 a smell uh in fact, not a smelly person. But uh, okay, 0:56:19.640 --> 0:56:21.960 can we talk about the one you screwed up? Sure? Man, 0:56:23.800 --> 0:56:27.239 it's a story. So first of all, I'd like to 0:56:27.280 --> 0:56:29.400 preface the story by saying that this is never in 0:56:29.400 --> 0:56:33.120 the history of mediator ever happened to me before, as 0:56:33.120 --> 0:56:35.040 far as i'm you're embarrassed about it, but you don't 0:56:35.040 --> 0:56:37.600 need terrible. So Lauren was talking about the pressure of 0:56:37.640 --> 0:56:40.080 like being a camera dude on a hunt like that. 0:56:40.200 --> 0:56:43.919 To me, that interaction that happened is worse than any 0:56:44.080 --> 0:56:49.239 like anything either one of the hunters could have done. No, 0:56:49.719 --> 0:56:54.840 you gotta tell it now, Okay, if killing uh killing 0:56:54.840 --> 0:56:58.520 the mature buck mark? What percentage harder does it become 0:56:58.600 --> 0:57:01.160 when you have a camera person? It is harder. I 0:57:01.160 --> 0:57:05.160 think it's it's half as likely something significant. Sure, it's 0:57:05.160 --> 0:57:08.560 twice as hard, a little less, twice less, twice hard, 0:57:08.680 --> 0:57:11.279 but there's is a lot, there's already a lot that 0:57:11.320 --> 0:57:13.239 can go wrong, and you're just making it's it's not 0:57:13.360 --> 0:57:16.600 quantifiable because there's twice as much older, there's twice as 0:57:16.680 --> 0:57:19.480 much movement, there's twice as many weird there's twice as 0:57:19.520 --> 0:57:22.160 many weird blobs up in the tree, there's twice as 0:57:22.240 --> 0:57:26.440 much sound, and and I found that that, Um, the 0:57:26.480 --> 0:57:28.760 best camera guys. I don't know why this is, but 0:57:28.840 --> 0:57:33.320 the best camera guys don't have this is this is 0:57:33.360 --> 0:57:36.920 not a fair statement. We have some phenomenal camera guys 0:57:36.920 --> 0:57:42.600 who don't have a strong hunting background, which is a plus, 0:57:43.320 --> 0:57:47.360 but they tend to not know how to read a critter. 0:57:48.640 --> 0:57:50.560 They don't know how to read a critter, and they 0:57:50.600 --> 0:57:54.240 don't know when. Is this fair? Probably No, it's totally fair. 0:57:54.280 --> 0:57:57.560 I think I've I've been learning how to a lot 0:57:57.880 --> 0:58:01.560 better taking its temperature. I take a critter's temperature now, 0:58:01.840 --> 0:58:05.120 I feel maybe not to the extent of pro but 0:58:05.360 --> 0:58:09.720 I'm close. I think when is it appropriate to move? Yes, 0:58:10.640 --> 0:58:16.600 taking his temperature? A deer standing there, uh, who's kind 0:58:16.600 --> 0:58:19.720 of like waving his nose through the air and kind 0:58:19.720 --> 0:58:24.400 of almost wanting to like stop his front hoof don't move, 0:58:24.400 --> 0:58:27.040 then that's yeah. Okay, so yeah, you're taking this temperature 0:58:27.080 --> 0:58:29.360 and you're like, this is not an appropriate time for 0:58:29.480 --> 0:58:32.240 movement because this deer is like I don't like something. 0:58:32.360 --> 0:58:33.959 I don't know what I don't like, but I don't 0:58:34.000 --> 0:58:38.840 like it a deer, this guy his nose of the 0:58:39.080 --> 0:58:44.640 arts of another dear Time to move man still slowly? Yeah, 0:58:44.800 --> 0:58:47.240 so you get it. Yeah, that's good. A turkey who's 0:58:47.240 --> 0:58:50.080 got his fan up and his fan is between its 0:58:50.160 --> 0:58:55.760 head and you you can do it. That's time to move. Um. 0:58:55.800 --> 0:58:58.560 So we're sitting there and and we're in a weird 0:58:58.640 --> 0:59:02.400 setup where we're actually differ. Thinks I'm gonna tree stand 0:59:02.640 --> 0:59:04.920 up in a shitty tree, and Chris is in like 0:59:04.960 --> 0:59:07.200 a little outhouse. What do you call us? That's like 0:59:07.200 --> 0:59:12.880 a box. Chris is up a little miniature plastic bad 0:59:12.920 --> 0:59:17.200 box blind. It was less than the desirable filming location. 0:59:17.280 --> 0:59:19.400 But it wasn't That wasn't the problem. The problem was 0:59:19.440 --> 0:59:25.040 about ten am. I get a text from Chris. I'm 0:59:25.040 --> 0:59:27.720 looking at Chris. Can hear me? So? So we were 0:59:27.800 --> 0:59:29.680 I were him because we're filming. So I have a 0:59:29.760 --> 0:59:31.400 mic and I can whisper to Chris. I can be 0:59:31.440 --> 0:59:33.720 like six o'clock do or whatever. But he can't communicate 0:59:33.760 --> 0:59:37.480 to me. Um. We have one thing where there's a 0:59:37.600 --> 0:59:40.360 stick that he can hang out of his blind and 0:59:40.400 --> 0:59:44.280 that conveys a certain message to me. What What did 0:59:44.320 --> 0:59:47.480 that convey? That conveys? Because this is the problem we have. 0:59:47.840 --> 0:59:50.600 That conveys I see it, dear, that you don't see. 0:59:51.280 --> 0:59:53.160 And I'll tell you that this stick does not come 0:59:53.160 --> 0:59:57.320 into play very often, but it did one time. But 0:59:57.480 --> 1:00:08.200 one time the stick came into play. Yeah it's damn Yeah. 1:00:08.240 --> 1:00:12.000 We met Pounders mom and uh and this pounder and 1:00:12.080 --> 1:00:14.360 miss Founder and she was telling us about a great 1:00:14.360 --> 1:00:18.960 cook Pounder so and she made a bunch of cookies. 1:00:19.760 --> 1:00:25.560 So around ten I get a text, Is that what happened? Yeah, 1:00:25.920 --> 1:00:28.680 and you needed to go down because you had left 1:00:29.120 --> 1:00:32.480 your camera battery at the base of the blind. So 1:00:32.680 --> 1:00:34.960 I had my backpack. But then I had like a 1:00:35.000 --> 1:00:36.760 little go bag that I had made, and I was 1:00:36.800 --> 1:00:38.680 stoked on it because I was gonna have it all 1:00:38.680 --> 1:00:41.520 like folded in and silent, and if I needed to 1:00:41.560 --> 1:00:44.360 like quickly change a battery, I would just reach into 1:00:44.360 --> 1:00:47.960 this bag. No zippers, no velcrow, nothing, grabbed the battery. 1:00:48.120 --> 1:00:51.600 Still noisy ass bag. Yeah, well until it's until it's 1:00:51.600 --> 1:00:54.120 in its right zone, then it's then it's it's it's 1:00:54.120 --> 1:00:57.040 not the greatest bag, But I was stoked on the idea. 1:00:57.080 --> 1:01:00.200 But then I stupidly forgot to put the battery in 1:01:00.280 --> 1:01:02.440 that bag and left it in my bag at the 1:01:02.440 --> 1:01:04.439 bottom of this ladder. And you didn't have a pea 1:01:04.480 --> 1:01:07.840 bottle and I didn't have a pea bottle, and you 1:01:07.880 --> 1:01:10.680 can't really sneak her up out over the window ledge 1:01:10.680 --> 1:01:13.880 a little too high, and you could have sneaked her 1:01:13.880 --> 1:01:16.480 out the door, but you had to get a battery anyway. 1:01:16.560 --> 1:01:18.960 So he says, is it okay if I climbed down? 1:01:19.000 --> 1:01:21.160 It's ten am? Is it okay if I climbed down 1:01:21.320 --> 1:01:25.600 and get me a battery and take a leak. I 1:01:25.680 --> 1:01:28.000 see you at the door open, I see him come down. 1:01:29.000 --> 1:01:33.760 I see him turn away from me, presumably, Yeah, you 1:01:33.840 --> 1:01:36.800 sneaked her out. And I looked past you and down 1:01:36.840 --> 1:01:39.680 the hill, and I'm not kiddey man. We've been sitting 1:01:39.680 --> 1:01:44.640 there all morning. And he hits the ground, starts taking 1:01:44.640 --> 1:01:49.400 a whiz, and in the direction he's whizzing, I just like, 1:01:50.080 --> 1:01:54.120 here's a buck, and he's coming, and he's close, he's coming. 1:01:54.160 --> 1:01:57.000 It was like you ever have a dream where like 1:01:57.000 --> 1:01:59.000 like when you wake up from the dream, you and 1:01:59.040 --> 1:02:00.840 you realize that it was the dream, you're like so 1:02:00.960 --> 1:02:03.560 relieved that it wasn't real life. Yes, that's what it was, 1:02:03.600 --> 1:02:06.200 except it was real life. Oh that was like the 1:02:06.240 --> 1:02:09.280 worst case scenario. And I'm saying to you, like I do, 1:02:09.400 --> 1:02:13.880 I'm like Chris, Chris. Then I realized he can't hear. 1:02:14.240 --> 1:02:17.560 He had to unhook. So you eventually turned around and 1:02:17.560 --> 1:02:19.680 I give you a frantic like down on the ground, 1:02:21.400 --> 1:02:23.680 and I see him good out of his phone, like 1:02:23.720 --> 1:02:27.000 he's gonna fil him with his phone and aim it. 1:02:27.000 --> 1:02:29.160 It's my only instinct. And it's a nice buck. It's 1:02:29.160 --> 1:02:31.920 a nice like I'm like very interested in shooting his buck. 1:02:31.960 --> 1:02:34.480 And this buck comes up and I think he's gonna 1:02:34.480 --> 1:02:39.760 come right up the edge you're on and when be 1:02:39.880 --> 1:02:41.840 perfect And I'm like, he's gonna pass and buy ten 1:02:41.840 --> 1:02:43.800 ft away about it, like he probably not gonna he's 1:02:43.800 --> 1:02:46.040 probably not gonna see because you're hunker down in tall grass. 1:02:47.040 --> 1:02:50.800 But then he cuts and comes in and picks up 1:02:50.840 --> 1:02:53.760 your smell. And here's the difference between like an older 1:02:53.800 --> 1:02:57.240 buck and a not older buck. When he hits that smell, 1:02:59.320 --> 1:03:04.919 it's he turned like like you watch deer hits smell 1:03:05.000 --> 1:03:07.520 all the time, and a lot of your hits smell. 1:03:07.920 --> 1:03:11.400 They hit human odor and they get this like oh 1:03:11.440 --> 1:03:15.200 my gosh, and they wave their nose in the air 1:03:15.840 --> 1:03:18.440 and they're like they're gonna run. Maybe not. They stop 1:03:18.520 --> 1:03:23.640 their footy, they take three bounds and stop again and 1:03:23.640 --> 1:03:27.280 and blow and whatever they do. They and then they 1:03:27.360 --> 1:03:31.160 drift off raising all kind of fanfare and tail in 1:03:31.200 --> 1:03:34.880 the air and all piste off and letting everybody know. 1:03:34.960 --> 1:03:38.720 And you know, but it took him like a full 1:03:38.760 --> 1:03:40.760 minute to like come to the conclusion this is what 1:03:40.760 --> 1:03:43.640 they want to do. This buck hits that like that 1:03:43.760 --> 1:03:48.840 wall of scent, and he he doesn't like his attitude 1:03:48.880 --> 1:03:54.840 doesn't change really, but he just stops, turns around and 1:03:55.600 --> 1:04:01.720 lowers his profile. M hm, like he sees like slink 1:04:01.920 --> 1:04:06.880 into the earth more and just go back the same direction. 1:04:09.520 --> 1:04:12.480 Very often that you describe that wall of scent. I 1:04:12.520 --> 1:04:14.680 feel like it's they hit a wall. They literally you 1:04:14.720 --> 1:04:17.800 can physically see it as if they smash their head 1:04:17.800 --> 1:04:21.040 into it and then bam, it's all different after that. 1:04:21.120 --> 1:04:24.400 And he's like not he doesn't desire to draw any 1:04:24.440 --> 1:04:31.640 attention to himself. No pause. It's like that's how they get, 1:04:31.720 --> 1:04:34.800 that's how they live. Like that's the difference in the 1:04:34.840 --> 1:04:38.640 buck that dies in a buck that lives. It's like 1:04:38.760 --> 1:04:40.560 you bump a big meal to your buck, you know, 1:04:40.600 --> 1:04:43.520 like muled your famous for like you bump amulder buck 1:04:43.800 --> 1:04:46.160 and they run and they're gonna vanish. They're gonna get 1:04:46.160 --> 1:04:48.360 where He's not gonna be able to he's gonna vanish 1:04:48.400 --> 1:04:52.680 over the edge, but he stops and looks back. Like 1:04:52.760 --> 1:04:56.000 the big ones when you bust a group of them. 1:04:56.080 --> 1:04:58.440 He doesn't go the way the dolls go. He goes 1:04:58.480 --> 1:05:02.040 a different way, and he ever stops, he doesn't stop 1:05:02.120 --> 1:05:04.400 and do that. What was that? And this buck man? 1:05:04.440 --> 1:05:07.640 It was kind of magical to watch him just be 1:05:07.800 --> 1:05:11.880 like not killing me today, sons of bites and just 1:05:11.920 --> 1:05:14.680 slunk out. Now the other one go ahead. I was 1:05:14.680 --> 1:05:16.680 just gonna ask, this wasn't the short time one, or 1:05:16.840 --> 1:05:18.960 was the short time one he had? He had one 1:05:19.000 --> 1:05:22.280 of his sides, one of his sides had noticeably shorter 1:05:22.320 --> 1:05:26.240 times than the other side. Now, the one that was 1:05:27.000 --> 1:05:28.880 my not the one that was not I don't want 1:05:28.880 --> 1:05:29.920 to say it was my fault, but the one that 1:05:29.960 --> 1:05:34.920 was not Chris's fault. All day were watching deer that 1:05:35.000 --> 1:05:38.960 are like following a certain line of traffic. They're they're 1:05:39.080 --> 1:05:42.360 they're coming into our zone and they're like coming along 1:05:42.480 --> 1:05:45.560 the same edge and some break some go straight, and 1:05:45.640 --> 1:05:48.200 some break left and come up past us, eat some 1:05:48.280 --> 1:05:50.360 dry leaves or laying on top of the snow. They're 1:05:50.400 --> 1:05:53.880 like that little spot m hm. He just watched deer 1:05:53.880 --> 1:05:57.520 They're like doing this all daylong. And there's one spot 1:05:57.560 --> 1:06:00.280 I can't see really clearly, and it's kind of like 1:06:00.280 --> 1:06:03.440 a ridgeline that comes up to where we are, and 1:06:03.640 --> 1:06:06.040 late in the morning, like you're saying, late in the morning, 1:06:06.160 --> 1:06:10.160 here comes one and I look and he's already it's 1:06:10.160 --> 1:06:14.439 too it's happening too fast, already coming against the flow 1:06:14.480 --> 1:06:19.160 of traffic. Walking the ridge just has that dead on, 1:06:19.400 --> 1:06:25.040 like paranoid look to him, but traveling like with a 1:06:25.200 --> 1:06:28.520 sense of purpose. And it's a ten, it's a nice ten. 1:06:29.840 --> 1:06:34.520 And he comes up and I'm like, oh my god, 1:06:34.680 --> 1:06:36.520 like he's gonna pass ten yards way, He's gonna pass 1:06:36.560 --> 1:06:40.400 sen yards away. I get my bow. He's behind some brush. 1:06:40.520 --> 1:06:42.400 I'm not even only have a chance to start pulling 1:06:42.440 --> 1:06:48.600 back and hits the wall of scent and not even 1:06:50.280 --> 1:06:53.240 I mean, he's so close to me and I've been 1:06:53.280 --> 1:06:55.680 there for hours, and the winds like not the kind 1:06:55.680 --> 1:06:57.920 of wind that flushes everything away, but just to kind 1:06:57.920 --> 1:07:00.320 of wind it's like very steady in the direction and 1:07:00.360 --> 1:07:02.200 you've pooled up I don't know how much stink at 1:07:02.200 --> 1:07:06.640 ten yards away, and he hits it and just gone vanished. 1:07:08.040 --> 1:07:09.760 Was that one of the bigger white tail bucks you've 1:07:09.800 --> 1:07:15.400 seen while honey at least yeah, right, yeah, probably a 1:07:15.560 --> 1:07:18.240 pretty nice one, super nice one. It was the kind 1:07:18.240 --> 1:07:20.040 of buck, and I was glad. I was kind of 1:07:20.080 --> 1:07:22.640 like reviewing in my mind. I was kind of glad 1:07:22.720 --> 1:07:24.640 and have time to dwell on how nice he was. 1:07:26.000 --> 1:07:27.840 But I finally I could do everything better when I 1:07:27.880 --> 1:07:32.440 have time. If I have time. Um, you see something, 1:07:32.520 --> 1:07:34.960 you get excited. When you have time, the excitement goes 1:07:35.000 --> 1:07:38.040 down and you start remembering the important things. This would 1:07:38.040 --> 1:07:39.960 have been one of those great shots to screw up, 1:07:40.000 --> 1:07:43.840 because um, it would have happened too fast. Do you 1:07:43.840 --> 1:07:46.160 think is there anything like if you I always trying 1:07:46.160 --> 1:07:48.040 to do this at least any kind of mature bucking 1:07:48.080 --> 1:07:51.280 counter that doesn't end the way I wanted to try? 1:07:51.360 --> 1:07:53.320 Self analyzed little bit when you look back in that, 1:07:53.440 --> 1:07:55.600 Is there anything you would have done differently? Is there 1:07:55.640 --> 1:07:59.720 any other Yeah? I would be after all this time 1:07:59.720 --> 1:08:03.240 we've and spending in trees and and just having things 1:08:03.280 --> 1:08:07.800 like that happened and then not work out. I think that, Um, 1:08:08.080 --> 1:08:13.160 it's hard to do it. But the balance of shooting 1:08:13.200 --> 1:08:17.120 lanes and cover, Yeah, because here you have here here 1:08:17.160 --> 1:08:20.080 I'm in a tree where of the stuff around me, 1:08:20.120 --> 1:08:23.400 there's no possible way to take a shot. You're also 1:08:23.479 --> 1:08:25.479 not that high in that tree either. That's a pretty 1:08:25.520 --> 1:08:28.360 low stand. It's a horrible tree. Yeah, that from that 1:08:28.439 --> 1:08:31.320 angle you got plenty of cover. You can't it's impossible 1:08:31.320 --> 1:08:37.400 to shoot the years own. You cannot shoot now. Though, 1:08:39.120 --> 1:08:41.920 if we assume that we're stuck with that stand where 1:08:41.920 --> 1:08:45.400 it is, if the back had been trimmed out, you 1:08:45.439 --> 1:08:47.479 know how much worse we would have been, like hung 1:08:47.479 --> 1:08:49.680 out to dry them. That's the thing, because if you 1:08:49.720 --> 1:08:53.280 could like I actually was sitting there tonight thinking about um, 1:08:53.320 --> 1:08:55.320 I was actually sitting there to night thinking about this 1:08:55.400 --> 1:09:01.200 problem and the cover you and I think if I 1:09:01.280 --> 1:09:04.080 hunted up, if I hunted up a spot where I 1:09:04.120 --> 1:09:06.639 was really like putting in multiple years in hunting there, 1:09:07.760 --> 1:09:11.240 I would I would probably like my contribution to white 1:09:11.240 --> 1:09:15.719 tail hunting would be that I would become very detail 1:09:15.800 --> 1:09:22.400 focused around selecting spots not just for their location, not 1:09:22.560 --> 1:09:25.439 just to take advantage of pinch points and travel routes, 1:09:26.320 --> 1:09:29.240 but I would put a lot of energy into places 1:09:29.280 --> 1:09:35.000 that had good cover and and so that if I 1:09:35.200 --> 1:09:38.439 looked around me, if I like spun in the degree circle, 1:09:38.439 --> 1:09:41.240 I'd be going to like cover shooting lane, cover shooting lane, 1:09:41.240 --> 1:09:44.759 cover shooting lane, even if I had to have someone 1:09:44.840 --> 1:09:47.240 come out, if I had to like take my woman 1:09:47.280 --> 1:09:49.719 out and give her a pulse, give her a pulse, 1:09:49.760 --> 1:09:52.439 all with a thirty foot handle. I'm sorry I have 1:09:52.520 --> 1:09:54.639 to interrupt, but I don't think you're bringing up anything 1:09:54.640 --> 1:09:56.960 new here. I think that you're explaining what most people 1:09:57.160 --> 1:09:59.880 go out there and try to achieve, not when you 1:10:00.120 --> 1:10:05.280 doing not when you're running around making snap decisions about stuff. Yeah, 1:10:05.280 --> 1:10:07.280 I think you do. We used to when I when 1:10:07.280 --> 1:10:08.720 I was younger, my old man put a ton of 1:10:08.760 --> 1:10:12.360 focus on it. Not covered, but shooting lanes. If you 1:10:12.400 --> 1:10:15.240 have the preset stands that you're putting up the four 1:10:15.360 --> 1:10:18.720 season and stuff, Yeah, absolutely, but not like we're doing 1:10:18.720 --> 1:10:21.679 the running gun hanging hunt. And I think I think 1:10:21.720 --> 1:10:26.440 the issue here, right, both your situation and my situation, 1:10:27.000 --> 1:10:29.880 we ran to the same problem. Um, But I think 1:10:30.120 --> 1:10:32.320 I think what we have here is we've got a 1:10:32.400 --> 1:10:36.880 property that we are trying to get stands up this summer, 1:10:36.960 --> 1:10:39.719 and a lot of stands up across a bunch of places, 1:10:40.320 --> 1:10:43.160 and they're simply wasn't time to get every single one 1:10:43.200 --> 1:10:46.240 perfect right guy, and nobody haunted it. Yeah, you guys 1:10:46.240 --> 1:10:49.479 were the first ones. Right. Um, So I think what 1:10:49.560 --> 1:10:52.040 we have this year, now we're getting us first run 1:10:52.080 --> 1:10:54.280 through like all the stands we've we've hung all the 1:10:54.320 --> 1:10:56.720 spots that got trimmed out. I think now this next 1:10:56.720 --> 1:10:59.360 spring and summer, we're gonna know, Okay, this one we 1:10:59.439 --> 1:11:01.599 gotta fix a, B and C, this one, we gotta 1:11:01.600 --> 1:11:03.640 trim out this, this and this and and we'll have 1:11:03.760 --> 1:11:05.320 time to go back to a lot of these other 1:11:05.400 --> 1:11:07.680 stands that we just barely had time to get up 1:11:07.720 --> 1:11:10.080 this year. Now it's now we can try to get 1:11:10.080 --> 1:11:12.040 things a little bit more fine tuned. You don't have 1:11:12.040 --> 1:11:15.840 a back background as an arburst, is there? Right? So 1:11:15.920 --> 1:11:19.479 this is especially sensitive subject, right, I can I can 1:11:19.560 --> 1:11:23.280 feel that you stewed on it. I have stuped on 1:11:23.320 --> 1:11:26.240 it as well because it it hurt me too. But 1:11:26.400 --> 1:11:29.280 that's something okay, talking about getting screwed by big bucks, 1:11:30.080 --> 1:11:33.920 getting screwed by big Bucks, the anatomy of getting screwed 1:11:33.960 --> 1:11:36.360 by a big Buck. Well this that same day that 1:11:36.400 --> 1:11:38.760 you had your big giant Buck come by and be 1:11:38.800 --> 1:11:40.960 stuck behind brush, I get this text message from you 1:11:41.000 --> 1:11:43.240 saying I had a giant at ten yards couldn't get 1:11:43.240 --> 1:11:45.120 a shot because of brush. I told you I could 1:11:45.160 --> 1:11:47.639 have jumped on him. Yeah, yeah, I should have jumped 1:11:47.640 --> 1:11:52.479 on him. Why wasn't that your your change? You would 1:11:52.479 --> 1:11:55.960 have made um. So that morning, like I said, me 1:11:56.000 --> 1:11:59.760 and Lauren had um, we've been seeing handle, not even 1:11:59.800 --> 1:12:02.280 hand a good number of bucks running through, chasing does 1:12:02.320 --> 1:12:04.439 around a lot of activity. So I gave him the 1:12:04.439 --> 1:12:06.559 good news bad news speech, told him we're gonna sit 1:12:06.600 --> 1:12:10.679 all day and um, as you alluded to. Around eleven o'clock, 1:12:10.720 --> 1:12:13.880 I turned around, Hey, Lauren, this is the beginning of 1:12:13.880 --> 1:12:16.639 what I think is the best stretch of the day 1:12:16.680 --> 1:12:20.240 oftentimes for like that one solo mature buck to come through, 1:12:20.840 --> 1:12:24.719 just notorious eleven to one, big bucks, big old mature 1:12:24.720 --> 1:12:27.120 bucks are gonna come cruising through checking these doe betting ears. 1:12:27.120 --> 1:12:28.679 And the spot we were in was a really cool 1:12:28.720 --> 1:12:32.320 little bench on a ridge, and there's great betting behind us, 1:12:32.439 --> 1:12:34.320 great betting sort of in front of us a little 1:12:34.320 --> 1:12:36.160 ways and then around the corner of this ridge. It 1:12:36.200 --> 1:12:38.439 just seemed like a spot that a mature buck with 1:12:38.560 --> 1:12:41.439 cruise midday. So we even said a bet. We're like, okay, 1:12:41.479 --> 1:12:43.439 I'm betting, Like, let's put money, Like, I have one 1:12:43.479 --> 1:12:45.960 dollar bill in my wallet. I bet you that we 1:12:46.000 --> 1:12:48.840 will see a mature but a deer. I think we 1:12:49.000 --> 1:12:51.679 just said a deer. I bet like eleven thirty five 1:12:51.800 --> 1:12:53.800 we see the first deer between eleven and one. You 1:12:53.840 --> 1:12:58.719 walk around with a one dollar bill in your wallet. Yes, 1:12:58.760 --> 1:13:01.080 in this situation, I have been have a one dollar billon. 1:13:01.160 --> 1:13:05.040 Was it? Um? I lost? You did loose and then 1:13:05.120 --> 1:13:08.800 later we double or nothing to that one again? Um? 1:13:08.880 --> 1:13:12.479 But it actually I wasn't quite right because we saw 1:13:13.320 --> 1:13:16.320 the dough at eleven thirty. The buck we saw one 1:13:16.360 --> 1:13:19.760 hour later. So twelve thirty rolls around. We've seen a 1:13:19.760 --> 1:13:24.240 few doughs coming through. Midday twelve thirty, I am looking 1:13:24.280 --> 1:13:26.439 off to my right, kind of doing my skin, and 1:13:26.479 --> 1:13:28.880 I noticed a dark shape moving along the side of 1:13:28.920 --> 1:13:32.160 this ridge. And there's snow over everything. It's snowed overnight, 1:13:32.280 --> 1:13:34.240 so you can see these bodies or lists right away. 1:13:34.280 --> 1:13:36.880 Pull my bannocks, get eyes on him. And at first 1:13:36.880 --> 1:13:39.280 I saw the buck and I'm like, Lauren Buck coming 1:13:39.320 --> 1:13:43.160 in whatever six o'clock or whatever it was, and um, 1:13:43.160 --> 1:13:45.519 he gets turned around and I'm like, usually the first 1:13:45.520 --> 1:13:47.439 thing to say if it's a buck or dough and 1:13:47.479 --> 1:13:49.960 then right away there's used a quick snap judgment like 1:13:50.800 --> 1:13:52.840 little buck or shooter or something like that, just so 1:13:52.880 --> 1:13:57.400 he knows like yeah. And first I was like buck, 1:13:58.040 --> 1:14:01.240 big buck. And then I'm wasna looking at him again, 1:14:01.280 --> 1:14:03.320 and and I'm trying to look at his body and 1:14:03.360 --> 1:14:06.360 trying to like see what's coming my way. And for 1:14:06.400 --> 1:14:08.320 the first time this trip, I was like, I think 1:14:08.360 --> 1:14:13.880 that's a shooter. Um. I just remember noticing obviously bigger body. 1:14:14.400 --> 1:14:19.440 And then when you looked up as antlers, I saw heaviness. 1:14:19.800 --> 1:14:22.439 There was a heaviness to it. And I remember looking 1:14:22.520 --> 1:14:25.639 at the main beam and seeing like something funky going on, 1:14:26.400 --> 1:14:28.559 another thing of indicative, like you're not gonna see a 1:14:28.600 --> 1:14:29.680 year and a half old or two and a half 1:14:29.720 --> 1:14:31.559 year a buck. That's gonna be some kind of unique 1:14:31.600 --> 1:14:36.400 funkiness to the rack. Um, So he's coming down the ridge, 1:14:36.840 --> 1:14:40.320 and earlier, maybe ten minutes before that sounds rout right, 1:14:40.400 --> 1:14:43.000 maybe five minutes before, we had seen a couple of 1:14:43.000 --> 1:14:45.479 deer running or moving across the opposite ridge, and so 1:14:45.560 --> 1:14:48.040 I grunted a couple of times just on the off 1:14:48.120 --> 1:14:50.120 chance that one was a buck. We occasionally do like 1:14:50.120 --> 1:14:53.120 a hail Mary grunt. So I grunted. Now this about 1:14:53.160 --> 1:14:55.240 comes in. We didn't know if he was coming in 1:14:55.240 --> 1:14:57.120 just because he was cruising, or if he was coming 1:14:57.120 --> 1:15:00.680 into the ground. But make your grunt noise. Well, I 1:15:00.840 --> 1:15:12.559 usually as a grunt tube. Just guys, zuck, you can 1:15:12.560 --> 1:15:16.000 probably do it all right, all right, all right, do 1:15:16.040 --> 1:15:18.080 your turkey call with no turkey call. Check this out. 1:15:18.360 --> 1:15:24.960 This guy with no turkey calling his mouth. Do the 1:15:25.000 --> 1:15:32.519 p Yeah, that's where he makes his magic. Good. That's good, man, Yeah, 1:15:32.520 --> 1:15:36.400 that's real good. So there you are, Matt nice. Just 1:15:36.520 --> 1:15:38.920 buck we got on camera. Yeah, well, well you're you're 1:15:38.920 --> 1:15:43.439 stealing my thunder. So the next thing I know, um, 1:15:43.520 --> 1:15:46.479 he is coming up. He comes over the rise at 1:15:46.479 --> 1:15:48.479 this point like full blown. This is absolutely buck, I'm 1:15:48.479 --> 1:15:52.160 gonna shoot. I grabbed my bow. I turned into position. 1:15:52.200 --> 1:15:55.280 He's worked his way across and at this point in 1:15:55.320 --> 1:15:58.600 an encounter with the mature buck, I'm usually holding my 1:15:58.640 --> 1:16:01.160 bow and then I'm gonna grab my release and have 1:16:01.280 --> 1:16:04.200 it clipped on and ready to go. So I go 1:16:04.280 --> 1:16:08.960 to clip on my release and I don't have a 1:16:09.000 --> 1:16:11.719 release on my hand because you were changing your clothes. 1:16:11.880 --> 1:16:15.439 Because just a minute like minutes something before I had 1:16:15.479 --> 1:16:17.559 added another layer put a vest on. So I took 1:16:17.600 --> 1:16:19.519 everything off, put the vest on, and I take off 1:16:19.560 --> 1:16:22.040 my release. Well, I put my release in my pocket 1:16:22.040 --> 1:16:26.000 and forgot to put my release on. Downfall of a 1:16:26.040 --> 1:16:28.639 twelve hour sit. Yeah, I kind of want to put 1:16:28.640 --> 1:16:32.400 a layer on, take a layer off. Whatever. So this 1:16:32.439 --> 1:16:35.439 is the most terrified I've probably ever been in my 1:16:35.560 --> 1:16:38.280 entire hunting life. When I've got this great, big mature 1:16:38.280 --> 1:16:40.160 about coming in and I don't have a release on, 1:16:40.360 --> 1:16:44.080 and I said a bad word on camera. I'm like, 1:16:44.200 --> 1:16:47.640 I blanked up. I said that. He's walking in and 1:16:47.680 --> 1:16:50.000 I'm like scrambling trying to get my release. I found 1:16:50.000 --> 1:16:51.559 it and I'm trying to get it in my hand 1:16:51.560 --> 1:16:54.920 and he's just slowly walking across. Fortunately, the area he's 1:16:54.920 --> 1:16:58.920 walking across is all limbs, like there's zero zero Could 1:16:58.960 --> 1:17:02.360 you drawn back? Uh No, because he was so far 1:17:02.640 --> 1:17:04.799 from being from being able to be in a shotline 1:17:04.800 --> 1:17:07.920 that I'd be holding back for three minutes. So I 1:17:07.960 --> 1:17:10.960 remember getting the release on and my hands started to 1:17:11.040 --> 1:17:12.720 shake while I was trying to get it on so 1:17:12.760 --> 1:17:15.000 badly I could not get the strap through the buckle 1:17:15.280 --> 1:17:16.920 like I was sitting there like, oh my gosh, this 1:17:17.000 --> 1:17:21.320 bux that was shaking from the release, from freaking out 1:17:21.320 --> 1:17:23.760 about trying to get the release, that's what threw me. 1:17:24.600 --> 1:17:26.680 Um Like. I was like, I gotta get this thing on, 1:17:26.760 --> 1:17:29.720 and I couldn't. And I'm just imagining he's standing right 1:17:29.760 --> 1:17:31.439 in the open and I can't shoot him right now. 1:17:31.880 --> 1:17:33.960 He wasn't, but in my mind I was sticking as it. 1:17:34.120 --> 1:17:37.679 But finally I remember telling myself, don't think about going fast, 1:17:38.280 --> 1:17:43.120 just just pull it through. Just so, I like slowed 1:17:43.160 --> 1:17:45.479 it down and I got the release on, and I 1:17:45.520 --> 1:17:49.440 looked back up and he's still behind all these tree limbs, 1:17:49.439 --> 1:17:53.160 slowly working his way. I'm okay, he's right there, he's 1:17:53.200 --> 1:17:55.759 moving in. He's like thirty yards, he's twenty five yards. 1:17:55.920 --> 1:17:58.720 Question about the release? Do you ever practice fingers so 1:17:58.760 --> 1:18:02.360 that just in case you release, said falling into the snow, 1:18:02.520 --> 1:18:06.120 you just had to let him walk. You couldn't shoot fingers. 1:18:06.479 --> 1:18:08.519 I don't. I don't think I would shoot fingers. Can 1:18:08.520 --> 1:18:12.280 you shoot a short limb bow with fingers? Fingers? Why, 1:18:12.360 --> 1:18:14.960 there's a certain there's a minimum actle to actually you 1:18:15.040 --> 1:18:16.559 have to have so you don't get like a real 1:18:16.640 --> 1:18:18.880 bad pinch from the bow stream and my grip is 1:18:18.920 --> 1:18:22.840 so strong I can just grab the loop. Oh yeah, 1:18:24.280 --> 1:18:30.160 pinchinger and thumb. That's very impressive. I do train that. 1:18:30.880 --> 1:18:35.479 Put it in your teeth. Thank you. Mark. Yeah, no, 1:18:35.479 --> 1:18:38.040 no release snow go, no release snow go. But in 1:18:38.040 --> 1:18:39.920 this case, I was able to get the release on time, 1:18:40.000 --> 1:18:42.080 and it was a huge relief. He's still there. I 1:18:42.280 --> 1:18:44.960 clicked on, like, all right, that's great. But then I'm 1:18:45.000 --> 1:18:47.639 looking at him and there's just no shoot there's no 1:18:47.800 --> 1:18:49.519 holes I can get a shot, I can't thread it 1:18:49.520 --> 1:18:51.320 through anywhere. I'm looking at him like trying to see, 1:18:51.600 --> 1:18:53.679 and he's just knew me, knew him his way along, 1:18:53.760 --> 1:18:57.559 kind of just and sniffing around, walking along just perfect. 1:18:57.600 --> 1:19:02.080 I was twenty yards broadside Lawrence, felling him gray, and 1:19:02.160 --> 1:19:05.360 he's a beautiful buck. And then I look, okay, no 1:19:05.439 --> 1:19:07.559 shooting lands, no shootlings. I'm seeing, Okay, he's gotta walk 1:19:07.560 --> 1:19:09.640 another ten yards or so, and then there's there's no 1:19:09.720 --> 1:19:11.720 reason for a buck to be lingering around that long 1:19:11.760 --> 1:19:15.320 without hitting the shooting lane. But he's moving anyway. Yeah, 1:19:15.400 --> 1:19:16.920 and I agree there should have been a shooting land 1:19:16.920 --> 1:19:19.719 here there, just there just wasn't Um, there's shooting lanes 1:19:19.720 --> 1:19:21.479 in the other three directions. This was just the one 1:19:21.520 --> 1:19:24.160 spot that we didn't get yet. And but he's moving, 1:19:24.320 --> 1:19:27.759 so it wouldn't do you any good slowly moving, And 1:19:27.920 --> 1:19:31.439 unfortunately he slowly moved in the direction that our wind 1:19:31.479 --> 1:19:33.680 was blowing, the one direction we didn't want him to go, 1:19:34.560 --> 1:19:37.200 and there was no openings before he hit that wind. 1:19:37.240 --> 1:19:39.880 So just like you described, he's walking along and he 1:19:39.960 --> 1:19:41.719 hits the wall, and as soon as he hits the wall, 1:19:42.120 --> 1:19:45.800 it's like someone spanked him. Like he just jumped and 1:19:45.880 --> 1:19:49.000 bounced off. It's different than your buck the slank away. 1:19:49.080 --> 1:19:53.320 He hit it and immediately jumped, ran off ten fifteen yards, 1:19:53.360 --> 1:19:58.360 stopped really yeah, looked back one time and then slunk 1:19:58.400 --> 1:20:01.639 a laugh, And then after that I just melted down 1:20:02.280 --> 1:20:05.280 because then I realized that was the big brow buck. 1:20:05.880 --> 1:20:08.559 The big brow buck was the buck that I got 1:20:08.560 --> 1:20:11.400 on camera in September August, the biggest deer we've seen 1:20:11.400 --> 1:20:14.240 in the farm, really really really cool deer. He has 1:20:14.640 --> 1:20:17.519 um he was the obviously most mature buck that we 1:20:17.560 --> 1:20:21.439 had seen yet huge body. Um. I remember, we we 1:20:21.560 --> 1:20:24.880 got the picture like that's a no brainer. That's the 1:20:24.920 --> 1:20:27.760 only real one we got that wasn't them, and then 1:20:27.840 --> 1:20:30.680 he has this really unique like at least twelve inch 1:20:30.720 --> 1:20:34.880 brow time, just huge brow time. Um, so really really 1:20:34.920 --> 1:20:36.479 really cool buck. And he was the one. I was like, Man, 1:20:36.520 --> 1:20:38.160 if there's any deer I could happen to get a 1:20:38.240 --> 1:20:39.720 chance that, he was the one. I would really like 1:20:39.800 --> 1:20:42.080 to get a chance that. And there was a twenty 1:20:42.160 --> 1:20:44.400 yards and I couldn't shoot him, and he bounces off 1:20:44.439 --> 1:20:47.559 and and that was it. So I was, you know, 1:20:47.600 --> 1:20:51.800 he had that these moments, especially in Michigan. An opportunity 1:20:51.800 --> 1:20:54.679 to mature buck is so so so rare. An opportunity 1:20:54.680 --> 1:20:57.680 to mature buck like that in Michigan is is infinitely 1:20:57.920 --> 1:21:01.840 more rare. Um to have that right there in your 1:21:01.880 --> 1:21:06.200 hands after hours, so many hours, miss is you know, 1:21:06.200 --> 1:21:07.680 I've been going aft for quite a long time here 1:21:07.680 --> 1:21:09.640 in Michigan for I don't know if that was like 1:21:09.680 --> 1:21:11.720 the tenth day in arrow or something like that, that 1:21:11.760 --> 1:21:15.640 I've been hunting um in the rut and um. To 1:21:15.680 --> 1:21:18.559 have it right there and not have to come together 1:21:18.600 --> 1:21:21.360 it was a little frustrating, even like it doesn't even 1:21:21.439 --> 1:21:24.040 need to be big huge giants, man, because I had 1:21:24.080 --> 1:21:29.600 like a like I loosed an arrow I don't know. 1:21:29.600 --> 1:21:32.439 It's like a eight point, you know, like a little 1:21:32.560 --> 1:21:34.040 like a two and a half year old type eight 1:21:34.040 --> 1:21:37.160 point buck. But this trip like like a screw up 1:21:37.200 --> 1:21:39.040 for me. And it's like all of a sudden, this 1:21:39.120 --> 1:21:41.360 there he is, out of nowhere, no sound, nothing like. 1:21:41.439 --> 1:21:43.880 There he is, and he's gonna be gone in no time. 1:21:44.720 --> 1:21:49.400 And I have a great shooting window. And he stopped, 1:21:49.400 --> 1:21:54.560 and I go to drawback, so I'm ready when he 1:21:54.600 --> 1:21:56.240 hits the shooting window, and if I need to, I'm 1:21:56.240 --> 1:21:58.240 gonna say something to stop him. Even though you said 1:21:58.240 --> 1:22:00.240 that with these bocks don't do that. We did have 1:22:00.320 --> 1:22:02.320 a phone call before this night. We talked about it 1:22:02.479 --> 1:22:05.599 right how they jumped the string, marks saying, there's so 1:22:06.120 --> 1:22:09.719 like they're too high strung and too nervous all the time, 1:22:10.120 --> 1:22:12.879 and when you stop him with a with a grunt, 1:22:13.960 --> 1:22:17.720 they stense up so bad that when they hear the string, 1:22:17.760 --> 1:22:21.120 they're gonna bolt. They're gonna jump the string. So you 1:22:21.160 --> 1:22:25.559 don't like to alert them if you don't have to. Yeah, well, 1:22:26.000 --> 1:22:30.160 I go to drawback and not go to a drawback 1:22:30.920 --> 1:22:32.640 so that I'm ready for the lane when it's a 1:22:32.720 --> 1:22:35.479 nice big shooting lane. But he stopped shy the lane, 1:22:38.120 --> 1:22:44.000 and as I'm looking, I realized, oh wow, there's actually 1:22:44.479 --> 1:22:50.080 like most of his rib cage is actually open. And 1:22:50.120 --> 1:22:52.600 I become so fixated on the fact that like, what 1:22:52.680 --> 1:22:55.080 are the chances and and can you do this? And 1:22:55.080 --> 1:22:58.920 oh my gosh, you can and should you ensure it's open? 1:23:02.160 --> 1:23:04.759 And I'm like running this in my head and and 1:23:04.800 --> 1:23:07.400 as I'm like, as my brain is sending the signal 1:23:07.479 --> 1:23:11.040 to to hit the release, he steps but I still 1:23:11.080 --> 1:23:14.240 like hit the release, and I and and like reviewing 1:23:14.360 --> 1:23:16.439 my head, I almost had the desire like reach back 1:23:16.439 --> 1:23:23.720 and grab my arrow, but he stepped in lunge, like 1:23:23.880 --> 1:23:26.559 stepped or was already like stepping, like he's scared. He 1:23:26.600 --> 1:23:29.000 saw me pull back and like freaked them lifted up 1:23:29.520 --> 1:23:32.080 and stepped, and then his step as the as I'm 1:23:32.080 --> 1:23:36.680 releasing the movement, his step turns into a leap and 1:23:36.720 --> 1:23:41.800 it was gone for the arrow. It's amazing how quick 1:23:41.840 --> 1:23:43.639 they can drop. Dude, this is one of those old 1:23:43.720 --> 1:23:48.160 crazy ones. This is the teenager. So how did you 1:23:48.200 --> 1:23:51.400 feel after that missed opportunity? Like, how do you take that? Well? 1:23:51.439 --> 1:23:53.320 At first I felt pretty sick because I'm afraid I 1:23:53.400 --> 1:23:56.080 hit it. Yeah, but we have, you know, one of 1:23:56.080 --> 1:23:58.880 the luxuries we have. We had two luxuries, one a 1:23:59.040 --> 1:24:04.240 camera so you can review, and to snow. So I 1:24:04.280 --> 1:24:06.160 waited a while and got down and followed his tracks 1:24:06.160 --> 1:24:08.800 for long ways not to drop of blood, and then 1:24:08.840 --> 1:24:14.519 I catch up to him chasing a dough. Yeah, and 1:24:14.560 --> 1:24:16.200 then went back. We watched the footage a ton of 1:24:16.240 --> 1:24:18.559 times more and you it's not there. And I couldn't 1:24:18.560 --> 1:24:20.559 find the air because I went into snowy high grass. 1:24:20.680 --> 1:24:22.519 But like I said, I tracked. I tracked him for 1:24:22.560 --> 1:24:25.240 over a hundred yards. How based off the film, how 1:24:26.120 --> 1:24:29.080 much do you think he dropped? He doesn't drop. He 1:24:29.120 --> 1:24:32.360 goes forward because he was already going forward. But you 1:24:32.400 --> 1:24:35.679 don't think he went down. I know exactly what Tom about, 1:24:35.680 --> 1:24:37.639 but no, he doesn't seem to go down. He seems 1:24:37.640 --> 1:24:40.040 to go forward. He was already getting He was already 1:24:40.040 --> 1:24:43.840 getting going. And I even like, as my arrows leaving, 1:24:43.880 --> 1:24:47.200 I'm like, I'm saying, like what do you oh? Chris? 1:24:47.200 --> 1:24:48.880 And I reviewed it too, I would say for sure 1:24:48.920 --> 1:24:52.200 that he did the classic ductor ductor strange. You felt 1:24:52.240 --> 1:24:55.640 he went down more than forward, Yeah, because when they 1:24:55.720 --> 1:24:58.599 before they can go forward to to make that they 1:24:59.080 --> 1:25:02.360 bring up, they have to load their legs and the 1:25:02.640 --> 1:25:05.640 what looks like a duck is when they load their 1:25:05.720 --> 1:25:09.640 legs and they're loading their lowering to basically get their 1:25:09.720 --> 1:25:13.479 legs into us to a compressed spring so they can 1:25:13.479 --> 1:25:16.840 then push off rather than you guys sit here having 1:25:16.840 --> 1:25:19.479 like knowing glances. Ah, we're talking about this. He was 1:25:19.560 --> 1:25:22.720 already stepping forward. No, he was. He was walking. So 1:25:23.320 --> 1:25:27.479 he was walking forward as you released. When he heard 1:25:27.520 --> 1:25:31.880 your string, your bow go off, he did what's called 1:25:32.000 --> 1:25:35.120 ducking the string where he crunches his legs underneath him, 1:25:35.160 --> 1:25:40.120 his body drops and then he and then he goes forward. Okay, 1:25:40.560 --> 1:25:43.479 where were we remarked, Um, we're just talking about how 1:25:43.520 --> 1:25:46.880 we both had our opportunity to slip through our fingers 1:25:46.920 --> 1:25:54.040 like that. I can be frustrating, super frustrating man. So yeah, 1:25:54.080 --> 1:25:56.880 I spun the camera over to Mark. After that buck 1:25:57.080 --> 1:26:00.400 hit the wall and ran off. It was a day. 1:26:00.680 --> 1:26:05.160 It's twenty five degrees and he's shaken like a leaf. Yeah, 1:26:05.200 --> 1:26:07.120 And I asked, I was like, are you cold or 1:26:07.200 --> 1:26:09.800 what's going on? Like? No, man, that buck tore me up. 1:26:11.360 --> 1:26:15.160 It was he was shaken in his boots like full 1:26:15.200 --> 1:26:21.440 of emotion. Obviously big, big opportunity slipped through his fingers. 1:26:21.840 --> 1:26:24.800 But I was upset and excited and all that kind 1:26:24.800 --> 1:26:31.120 of stuff, you know, it was that would have I mean, well, 1:26:31.280 --> 1:26:33.880 it was the best buck on this property. And if 1:26:33.880 --> 1:26:36.559 we're talking, I've I've killed mature box in Michigan, but 1:26:36.680 --> 1:26:38.599 that for sure would have been the biggest buck I've 1:26:38.600 --> 1:26:40.559 ever would have gotten a shot at in Michigan. So 1:26:40.600 --> 1:26:43.840 it was it's a really big deal for the state. Um. 1:26:43.920 --> 1:26:46.799 So that was an opportunity that I would have loved 1:26:46.840 --> 1:26:48.720 to have seen it go a different way. So I 1:26:48.760 --> 1:26:51.960 was just I don't know, It's just it's something when 1:26:51.960 --> 1:26:54.479 it's so close for some reason, it just slips through 1:26:54.479 --> 1:26:57.040 your fingers. It hurts just a little bit more like 1:26:57.160 --> 1:26:59.080 and I knew and I knew it too in my head, 1:26:59.200 --> 1:27:02.800 think that was my opportunity. Like you're you're, yeah, there's 1:27:02.800 --> 1:27:05.800 a chance, but especially here in this state, you get 1:27:05.840 --> 1:27:09.040 maybe one opportunity mature buck, even if you hunt really 1:27:09.080 --> 1:27:11.640 smart in most places. These most places I hunt, I 1:27:11.680 --> 1:27:16.000 don't hunt. This is an abnormally good property for me, um, 1:27:16.040 --> 1:27:18.920 But most years you've got that one chance. And if 1:27:18.960 --> 1:27:20.679 that one chance doesn't go the way that you want 1:27:20.760 --> 1:27:23.040 to you're kind of s ol so I was like, 1:27:23.080 --> 1:27:26.920 that was it? And you were so so close twenty 1:27:27.000 --> 1:27:32.960 yards Uh. Two observations. One was Ridge pounders. But it's interesting, 1:27:33.840 --> 1:27:36.000 is it? You know you're up here in the right knocks. 1:27:36.000 --> 1:27:37.680 There's so much dear movie. You're having all these like 1:27:37.680 --> 1:27:42.000 adrenaline moments, and Ridge was noticing. And then and once 1:27:42.000 --> 1:27:46.559 you brought this up, I realized it's true adrenaline moments. Uh. 1:27:46.720 --> 1:27:52.120 Make it that you get cold on the come down? Yeah, 1:27:52.800 --> 1:27:57.599 you feel your body temperature drop in the minutes after 1:27:58.760 --> 1:28:03.760 adrenaline rushes. Yeah, which if you'd asked me prior, if 1:28:03.760 --> 1:28:06.240 you without thinking about it, if you'd asked me, I'd 1:28:06.240 --> 1:28:08.160 be like, I'm guessing that it makes you feel hotter 1:28:09.360 --> 1:28:11.120 now when I like when it's real cold and you're 1:28:11.160 --> 1:28:13.160 camping and you gotta go take a growler. My brother 1:28:13.200 --> 1:28:16.400 used just call it taking the heater because he'd always 1:28:16.439 --> 1:28:20.519 mysteriously come away feeling warmer, like just the activity or something. 1:28:20.600 --> 1:28:23.760 You know. He'd be like cold relief. Yeah, and he'd 1:28:23.760 --> 1:28:25.960 go dig a hole and come back and be like, dude, 1:28:25.960 --> 1:28:28.760 I'm warmed up. I don't know why. It doesn't make 1:28:28.800 --> 1:28:31.639 sense if I got warmed up. But having a bucking 1:28:31.720 --> 1:28:33.960 counter or just a deer encounter, even just like something 1:28:34.000 --> 1:28:37.479 exciting happened. Five minutes later, you realize you got cold. 1:28:38.960 --> 1:28:42.840 I'd be shivering. I'd be fine before a big buck 1:28:42.880 --> 1:28:45.479 would come in close, and then as soon as he 1:28:45.520 --> 1:28:49.080 walks away, then I'd start shivering. I'm like, wait, what, 1:28:49.280 --> 1:28:53.400 but it's nothing's changed, feel a chill. As the adrenaline 1:28:53.400 --> 1:28:56.880 goes away, it leaves you feeling a chill. Uh. My 1:28:56.920 --> 1:29:02.559 other observations this and this is harder articulate, harder to articulate. Uh. 1:29:02.920 --> 1:29:07.920 I spent a great many years lusting for and trying 1:29:07.960 --> 1:29:10.720 to figure out and crack the code on how to 1:29:10.800 --> 1:29:18.120 get how to just like locate big mule deer, you know, 1:29:18.840 --> 1:29:22.400 and it took a long time to start. A lot 1:29:22.439 --> 1:29:26.000 of it was location, but also just strategy, um like 1:29:26.080 --> 1:29:28.240 how to figure it out? For for years, we just 1:29:28.320 --> 1:29:32.439 walk hunted, walked likely territory, thinking you'd kick him up, 1:29:33.160 --> 1:29:36.040 like they're just like how we went about it, just 1:29:36.080 --> 1:29:38.360 like you'd kick him up, right. And over time I 1:29:38.439 --> 1:29:45.559 learned like, uh that not just that you need to 1:29:45.600 --> 1:29:48.519 sit and observe, like where are you sitting observing? When 1:29:48.640 --> 1:29:51.160 you sitting observe and what you're actually looking for and 1:29:51.200 --> 1:29:55.160 all that, and it's you know, gradually like finding nicer ones. 1:29:55.680 --> 1:29:59.280 But the the years of frustration around it made me 1:30:00.040 --> 1:30:02.800 want to learn it more and more and more. A 1:30:02.840 --> 1:30:05.479 weird thing. I think it's because I have a long 1:30:05.600 --> 1:30:09.559 background of what we thought we were serious deer hunters, 1:30:09.560 --> 1:30:11.960 but we didn't do the stuff that you do, but 1:30:12.040 --> 1:30:15.240 we felt like we were serious deer hunters from the time, 1:30:15.360 --> 1:30:19.040 you know, for a good decade I did that between 1:30:19.080 --> 1:30:23.120 becoming old enough to legally hunt and then moving away 1:30:23.120 --> 1:30:27.000 from the Midwest. Um, like that's what we did and 1:30:27.200 --> 1:30:32.840 thought we were, you know, into it. But um, I 1:30:32.880 --> 1:30:36.000 don't know, Like I totally respect him, but I just don't, 1:30:36.040 --> 1:30:40.559 like I'm not getting where I feel the lust form. Yeah, no, 1:30:40.720 --> 1:30:43.679 And I don't know why I think they're so hard, 1:30:43.760 --> 1:30:45.960 but I just don't feel the lust. I think you 1:30:46.040 --> 1:30:50.160 just haven't. This is too much of you were dropped 1:30:50.200 --> 1:30:53.120 into a thing. You're just kind of along for the 1:30:53.240 --> 1:30:56.479 ride here right now. I think that, at least for me, 1:30:57.320 --> 1:31:03.000 what gives me this like insatiabill craving to keep learning 1:31:03.000 --> 1:31:05.759 about these animals and hunt them and try to figure 1:31:05.800 --> 1:31:09.240 them out. Is the chess match element of it, the 1:31:09.479 --> 1:31:14.479 the just the constant tinkering and rethinking and observing and 1:31:14.520 --> 1:31:19.000 adjusting and learning more. And that's something that in this situation, 1:31:19.320 --> 1:31:22.400 you know, you showed up to new property, we're kind 1:31:22.439 --> 1:31:24.880 of saying, well, try this, try this, try this. I 1:31:24.920 --> 1:31:28.719 think that if you had to move back to Michigan 1:31:28.760 --> 1:31:30.479 for a year or something like that, and you had 1:31:30.520 --> 1:31:32.160 to dive in and fare all the stuff out, you 1:31:32.280 --> 1:31:34.760 start get lost. I think you get lusty when you 1:31:34.800 --> 1:31:38.880 start dating to that start putting that puzzles together for yourself. 1:31:39.479 --> 1:31:42.400 That's when things start getting really really interesting. And this 1:31:42.439 --> 1:31:46.760 is an interesting scenario here because um, you know, I'm 1:31:46.840 --> 1:31:49.560 learning it too, and and and you're learning it and 1:31:49.560 --> 1:31:52.200 and guy, you're learning it into a degree. And this 1:31:52.280 --> 1:31:54.040 is kind of the first year this property is being 1:31:54.120 --> 1:31:56.679 hunted in this kind of way, so's lots of new elements. 1:31:56.680 --> 1:31:59.320 Were kind of figuring things out as we go. Um. 1:31:59.360 --> 1:32:01.880 I feel like we it a lot just this week. UM, 1:32:02.320 --> 1:32:03.920 all sorts of stuff I already know I wanted to 1:32:03.920 --> 1:32:08.920 do differently next time around. Um, but all those mistakes 1:32:09.160 --> 1:32:11.680 that in the moment are like a painful mistake or 1:32:11.720 --> 1:32:15.960 something that just reinvigorates and re excites me for well, 1:32:16.000 --> 1:32:17.600 I want to do this differently, and I wanna do 1:32:17.640 --> 1:32:20.040 this differently. I try that differently, and I think already 1:32:20.040 --> 1:32:22.160 I I'm I was telling you the other night, Like 1:32:22.200 --> 1:32:24.040 I'm sitting in my bed at night for half hour 1:32:24.120 --> 1:32:26.200 to an hour look at maps and thinking about how 1:32:26.240 --> 1:32:27.840 we shouldn't move to camera there, we should move a 1:32:27.880 --> 1:32:29.400 stand there, and we should get it back in there, 1:32:29.439 --> 1:32:34.360 because I think that these mature white tailed deer um, 1:32:34.479 --> 1:32:37.559 they don't live in the most rugged, rough country. They 1:32:37.720 --> 1:32:42.000 don't get the biggest antlers of any ungulate. They don't um. 1:32:42.120 --> 1:32:43.880 They're not gonna put as much meat in the freezer 1:32:43.880 --> 1:32:46.120 as a moose. They're not gonna take you to a 1:32:46.120 --> 1:32:49.000 mountain peak like a mountain goat. But I don't think 1:32:49.160 --> 1:32:56.920 there's a more savvy, weary, tricky smart critter out there 1:32:56.920 --> 1:32:59.760 than a mature whitetail buck. Like they deal with a 1:32:59.760 --> 1:33:03.640 whole lot of humans, and these deer that make it 1:33:03.640 --> 1:33:07.960 to that age are just survivors. And to consistently get 1:33:08.000 --> 1:33:10.240 on them and to learn them and be in a 1:33:10.240 --> 1:33:12.479 position to sometimes get a shot at you like that 1:33:12.560 --> 1:33:17.439 requires a lot of mind power, Like thinking and that 1:33:17.640 --> 1:33:23.240 just gets me. I see it get you. I love 1:33:23.280 --> 1:33:25.680 it that it gets you. And and and I'm not 1:33:25.760 --> 1:33:30.120 like down on it, just like it just uh yeah, 1:33:30.160 --> 1:33:32.800 I don't know. Did you have a good time? Phenomenal time? 1:33:33.680 --> 1:33:36.880 I feel really bad a lot of stuff. You feel bad. 1:33:37.240 --> 1:33:39.479 I feel really bad that like you just didn't you 1:33:39.520 --> 1:33:40.880 didn't get a shot of him. I mean you did 1:33:40.960 --> 1:33:43.960 get a shot of one, but I just felt like 1:33:44.000 --> 1:33:46.519 I let you down. Who cares? I had a phenomenal time, 1:33:46.600 --> 1:33:50.599 a great time, um, and I loved every second of it. 1:33:50.920 --> 1:33:57.960 But I don't like, uh yeah, man, I'm just I 1:33:58.000 --> 1:33:59.840 just like this meal deer and stuff like that. This 1:33:59.880 --> 1:34:02.600 is I get that, you know, I love it. I 1:34:02.640 --> 1:34:06.920 would do it all the time. But I think for me, 1:34:07.400 --> 1:34:12.320 it's I think for me that i've that that a 1:34:12.479 --> 1:34:17.519 thing that like some kind of strength that I have 1:34:17.760 --> 1:34:23.559 in hunting is just um like can just go and 1:34:23.560 --> 1:34:26.200 go and go. And sometimes it's a hindrance, but sometimes 1:34:26.240 --> 1:34:28.960 it's the strength. It's like going, going going. I'd like 1:34:29.000 --> 1:34:31.320 to sit and just watch and watch and watch and 1:34:31.320 --> 1:34:34.240 and like be out and and I and I think 1:34:34.280 --> 1:34:38.240 that I struggle. I think that I I struggle a 1:34:38.240 --> 1:34:42.240 little bit with them. The stationary, the very stationary aspect, 1:34:43.439 --> 1:34:45.960 because even if you're sitting there glass and from me 1:34:46.000 --> 1:34:48.000 older your glass and for cousi or whatever you're doing, 1:34:48.479 --> 1:34:51.479 and you're in one spot, there's there's like this kinetic 1:34:51.600 --> 1:34:54.680 energy that builds because you know that all of a 1:34:54.720 --> 1:34:56.800 sudden there's gonna be your chance and you're gonna go, 1:34:58.840 --> 1:35:01.720 even if you wait all day. You might wait all day, 1:35:01.760 --> 1:35:04.960 but there's still this idea that like, go time, now, 1:35:05.000 --> 1:35:08.920 we're gonna go. And to be strapped into that tree 1:35:10.760 --> 1:35:13.080 watching things and it would never work to go after him. 1:35:13.080 --> 1:35:15.640 They're just not gonna put up with that. But watching 1:35:15.680 --> 1:35:19.280 things and feeling that and it's going the wrong direction, 1:35:19.439 --> 1:35:25.679 and you're like, you don't have that that, you don't 1:35:25.680 --> 1:35:29.160 have that um, that autonomy, or you don't have that 1:35:30.080 --> 1:35:33.519 a lack of control. You can't make it move the agents, 1:35:33.760 --> 1:35:37.160 you don't have the agency to and it like, really, 1:35:37.760 --> 1:35:39.320 I don't know. I feel like I'd have to get 1:35:39.360 --> 1:35:41.280 better at it, you know, I'd have to get better 1:35:41.280 --> 1:35:43.640 at it. I used to not have the ability, like 1:35:43.640 --> 1:35:45.040 what I was sawing about earlier, trying to learn how 1:35:45.040 --> 1:35:48.160 to kill Multier. I didn't have the ability at the time. 1:35:48.200 --> 1:35:49.839 If you just said, oh, the key to kill muliteer 1:35:49.960 --> 1:35:53.880 is sitting and observing, I wouldn't have had it in me. 1:35:55.000 --> 1:35:57.599 I developed it. I would have to develop the ability 1:35:57.600 --> 1:36:01.040 to sitting these damn trees. I think I wind up 1:36:01.080 --> 1:36:04.880 cursing the tree. I don't wind up loving the tree. 1:36:05.320 --> 1:36:07.760 I get that. It's like, it's like I feel like 1:36:07.800 --> 1:36:10.240 I'm chained to it. You know that if you had 1:36:10.280 --> 1:36:13.559 sat in that same tree that you sat when you 1:36:14.080 --> 1:36:17.160 had those two encounters described, you would have had another 1:36:17.240 --> 1:36:21.320 nice big buck in front of this morning. You know 1:36:21.360 --> 1:36:23.559 why he was there because he weren't there because I 1:36:23.600 --> 1:36:27.439 wasn't there exactly. That's the funny thing like hunting this 1:36:27.479 --> 1:36:29.160 stuff now, Like you'd be like, oh, a big buck 1:36:29.200 --> 1:36:31.599 passed by that tree. Stand like the big buck pass 1:36:31.680 --> 1:36:33.800 that tree stancause you're not in it. It's not like 1:36:33.840 --> 1:36:35.160 he would have been. It's not like you would have 1:36:35.200 --> 1:36:39.400 been there anyway. Yeah, it can be frustrating. Yeah, I 1:36:39.439 --> 1:36:42.960 do feel like the interesting thing about a Western style 1:36:43.040 --> 1:36:45.120 hunt is that a lot of the actual hunting is 1:36:45.640 --> 1:36:48.800 the hunt is happening right then, right The decisions you're 1:36:48.840 --> 1:36:51.160 making that are going to impact that hunt are happening 1:36:51.280 --> 1:36:53.360 right now. It's like do I go up that ridge 1:36:53.439 --> 1:36:55.519 or that ridge, or do we make the stock now 1:36:55.600 --> 1:36:59.280 or do we wait? Many times, the actions that dictate 1:36:59.320 --> 1:37:01.559 the success or failure of a white tail hunt are 1:37:01.600 --> 1:37:03.960 not the actions taken right now as that deers in 1:37:04.000 --> 1:37:05.960 front of you. It's the actions you took two months 1:37:06.000 --> 1:37:09.960 ago or four months ago, when you made the decision 1:37:10.040 --> 1:37:12.920 to put a stand here, when you thought through all 1:37:12.920 --> 1:37:15.200 the things, all the assumptions you have about a deer, 1:37:15.640 --> 1:37:18.639 you think through all the behaviors that are gonna happen. No, No, 1:37:18.680 --> 1:37:21.880 not November eight, all that stuff that's leading to what 1:37:21.920 --> 1:37:25.280 you're seeing on November eight. The reason that happens because 1:37:25.280 --> 1:37:28.960 the decisions made on August first, and what limbs to cut, 1:37:28.960 --> 1:37:31.320 what limbs not to cut, which trails coming through here? 1:37:31.439 --> 1:37:34.000 Why did I want to access the tree stand from 1:37:34.040 --> 1:37:36.800 this way and exit that way? Um? So, so much 1:37:36.800 --> 1:37:40.240 of the hunt actually takes place many many, many weeks beforehand, 1:37:40.520 --> 1:37:43.639 because the hunt really is in setting up the ambush location. 1:37:44.360 --> 1:37:47.479 We have. The decisions we can make now in the moment, 1:37:47.520 --> 1:37:50.560 are do we hunt A or B or C or 1:37:50.600 --> 1:37:53.000 do it which place? For the what we have today? 1:37:53.360 --> 1:37:55.400 And then how you actually conduct yourself in the tree. 1:37:55.920 --> 1:37:59.080 But a big piece of the hunt you missed out on. UM, 1:37:59.160 --> 1:38:01.120 So that can I can. I would imagine that maybe 1:38:01.160 --> 1:38:07.080 that might um change your experience a little bit too. Yeah. Uh. 1:38:07.640 --> 1:38:09.760 A reason I like to hunt turkey so much is 1:38:09.760 --> 1:38:15.720 because it's so responsive, physically responsive. Yeah, he does this, 1:38:15.840 --> 1:38:19.120 you do that, he does this, micro movements little, it's 1:38:19.160 --> 1:38:22.160 just like I like it. Speaking of turkeys, we called 1:38:22.160 --> 1:38:24.640 in a lot of deer this week. They were very responsive, 1:38:24.680 --> 1:38:28.559 called lunch your tonight. Well he did, called in a 1:38:28.560 --> 1:38:32.960 bunch of doughs. They didn't want to leave. Why didn't 1:38:32.960 --> 1:38:38.439 you shoot it, doll? Yeah, I just didn't. Man. We 1:38:38.479 --> 1:38:41.000 had a lot of opportunities to shoot at doughs, a 1:38:41.000 --> 1:38:43.920 lot of them. I don't know why. That's a good question. 1:38:44.000 --> 1:38:47.360 I wanted the same thing, just because we were kind 1:38:47.360 --> 1:38:50.439 of like hunting bucks. And I'm not hurting for meat. 1:38:51.080 --> 1:38:54.639 I'm sitting pretty good. Actually, if I was meat, Christis, 1:38:54.680 --> 1:38:56.840 it would have been a whole different situation. Yeah, we 1:38:56.840 --> 1:39:03.080 would have solved that problem quick. All right, man, thanks 1:39:03.080 --> 1:39:05.360 for coming out and chasing white tails. I'll come to 1:39:05.479 --> 1:39:08.519 it again. I hope it. I hope it goes a 1:39:08.560 --> 1:39:11.080 little different. I had a great time. Man, I don't 1:39:11.080 --> 1:39:13.080 care if I got one. I honestly don't care. Good 1:39:13.280 --> 1:39:15.320 if you could like probe into my brain and see 1:39:15.360 --> 1:39:16.840 if I'm telling the truth or not, I'd be telling 1:39:16.880 --> 1:39:18.800 the truth, all right. I really don't give a ship 1:39:18.960 --> 1:39:21.360 all right, good? Yeah, thanks for sharing. It was fun 1:39:21.400 --> 1:39:24.280 to listen to you all week, learn and learn a 1:39:24.320 --> 1:39:27.519 lot from you. Well. Thank you to the two Guy 1:39:27.680 --> 1:39:30.559 and Matt for allowing us to to hunt this location 1:39:30.680 --> 1:39:33.160 and sure what you guys to come back. It was 1:39:33.160 --> 1:39:41.320 a good time. Do that turkey prayer again. We heard 1:39:41.360 --> 1:39:43.640 that a whole bunch. They didn't. We found her. We 1:39:44.600 --> 1:39:47.599 had turkeys up close. And that's the thing I remember 1:39:48.240 --> 1:39:52.599 that you don't realize how much noise they make. They're 1:39:52.640 --> 1:39:56.040 all making noise all the time. When you get that 1:39:56.080 --> 1:39:59.599 close to them, they're cool man getting in their winter flaw. Yeah, 1:39:59.760 --> 1:40:03.160 we're ten from him, and they didn't care about us 1:40:03.280 --> 1:40:07.080 all making noise. We were moving. I was like filming 1:40:07.080 --> 1:40:10.720 them moving. They were like, I don't care, bro, we're 1:40:10.720 --> 1:40:12.559 eating corn. I think of you have said something to him. 1:40:12.560 --> 1:40:14.799 They had to move, yeah, And I was like, eight turks, 1:40:15.240 --> 1:40:17.840 you guys need to get a Turkey tag next year. 1:40:17.920 --> 1:40:20.439 Put in from oh Man today, I was really regretting 1:40:20.479 --> 1:40:23.400 I have more, Lauren, you got any final thoughts? Man? 1:40:24.520 --> 1:40:27.120 Just thanks for having me along. I learned a lot 1:40:27.240 --> 1:40:32.840 from Mark. Sitting in tree stands forty eight hours. It's 1:40:32.880 --> 1:40:35.559 a good time. I was definitely a part of the hunt. Yeah, 1:40:35.720 --> 1:40:39.560 not just here to take pictures, not just here chasing dollars. 1:40:41.640 --> 1:40:48.439 He lost dollars actually, yeah lost? Oh yes, that cut 1:40:48.479 --> 1:40:56.200 into the bottom line. Yeah, yeah, it's cool. You know, obviously, 1:40:56.360 --> 1:40:59.920 sitting in the tree that long is not anyone's favorite thing. 1:41:00.080 --> 1:41:04.000 Maybe it maybe it's Mark's favorite thing. I admire it. 1:41:04.240 --> 1:41:06.200 I admire it. Man, sitting in a tree like that 1:41:06.280 --> 1:41:10.120 for that long, it's tough. I think it comes with 1:41:10.240 --> 1:41:13.360 age to the ability to not necessarily the ability, but 1:41:13.479 --> 1:41:18.040 just the just the downright appreciation of it. It only 1:41:18.080 --> 1:41:22.360 comes with age of sitting there for a long time 1:41:23.479 --> 1:41:26.519 just smelling the roses. It only comes with with a 1:41:26.560 --> 1:41:30.400 long you know you're never gonna meet at five year old. 1:41:30.560 --> 1:41:33.720 It's like, oh, yeah, I disagree, you do, yeah, yeah, 1:41:33.760 --> 1:41:37.000 I disagree to alright, eighteen whatever the cut off data 1:41:37.560 --> 1:41:40.080 cut off ages. Yeah, there's there is an age. I 1:41:40.120 --> 1:41:43.080 just think, if you tore up with it enough, you'll 1:41:43.080 --> 1:41:45.600 sit all that. If you love it enough, you'll do it. 1:41:45.840 --> 1:41:48.080 So there's like, so you'll sit all day, but will 1:41:48.120 --> 1:41:51.439 you enjoy it? That is different? Probably. I think that 1:41:51.560 --> 1:41:54.840 even even the thirty one year old me, sometimes it's like, God, 1:41:55.160 --> 1:41:57.439 why aren't they moving? Why isn't this happening? Exactly? And 1:41:57.479 --> 1:42:00.400 I just think for me at forty now of it 1:42:00.479 --> 1:42:02.439 just in the last few years sort of been like, 1:42:02.520 --> 1:42:07.280 you know what, what else? What the else? Is actually better? 1:42:08.240 --> 1:42:11.040 Yeah than just sitting here and why and waiting for 1:42:11.080 --> 1:42:14.760 the next woodpecker to come by or the next chickadee 1:42:14.800 --> 1:42:17.800 to come by or whatever. Yeah, it is a rare 1:42:17.840 --> 1:42:21.280 opportunity to just slow down and embrace Oh it's not 1:42:21.439 --> 1:42:24.720 existing thing. Yeah, it's easy to get caught up in 1:42:25.280 --> 1:42:28.599 everything else. My brother hunts by himself. He's a few 1:42:28.640 --> 1:42:30.920 years older me, so I don't know what the age part. 1:42:31.080 --> 1:42:34.920 He hunts by himself, and he hunts by himself in 1:42:34.960 --> 1:42:37.960 the mountains, bow hunting for elk. And he said that 1:42:38.040 --> 1:42:42.240 every day it's part of his day to talk himself 1:42:42.280 --> 1:42:48.280 out of going home mhm. Because he hates it, hates 1:42:48.320 --> 1:42:52.880 it and has every day talk himself out of quitn 1:42:53.160 --> 1:42:58.760 What is he hating the grind of it? Yeah? I 1:42:58.840 --> 1:43:00.920 get that, but he likes in the elks so much. 1:43:02.200 --> 1:43:04.200 In the end, it's worth it. But he says, every 1:43:04.240 --> 1:43:06.840 day I gotta just be like, you can't just don't 1:43:06.920 --> 1:43:10.960 let yourself. You can't go home. I don't give in. 1:43:11.160 --> 1:43:14.160 Don't let yourself go home. I have moments like that 1:43:14.240 --> 1:43:17.240 every day, doing these all day sets too. It's so 1:43:17.400 --> 1:43:19.960 much of of hunting. The rut in particular is like 1:43:20.200 --> 1:43:23.840 is mental. It's mental toughness. So every year leading is 1:43:23.880 --> 1:43:25.719 the point I have like a little self pep talk. 1:43:26.160 --> 1:43:29.680 It is all about mentally being in it. Are you 1:43:29.720 --> 1:43:31.599 gonna grind it out? Are you going to simply make 1:43:31.640 --> 1:43:33.840 the decision that no matter what goes wrong, no matter 1:43:33.840 --> 1:43:35.760 how tired you are every morning, every morning you wake 1:43:35.840 --> 1:43:38.639 up at four or four or thirty or whatever, He's like, jeez, 1:43:38.720 --> 1:43:41.200 all I wanna do is hit snooze and keep sleeping. 1:43:41.600 --> 1:43:44.360 But are you going to dedicate yourself to say no, 1:43:44.680 --> 1:43:47.280 I'm not going to give into that. You're gonna go 1:43:47.320 --> 1:43:49.040 out there, You're gonna do what you know you need 1:43:49.080 --> 1:43:50.880 to do. You're in a tough adout you're in a 1:43:51.560 --> 1:43:54.320 you know, it's just every single year when I look 1:43:54.320 --> 1:43:56.200 at the rut, we kind of call the white tail 1:43:56.240 --> 1:43:58.040 Worls kind of the rut marathon, because there's like two 1:43:58.040 --> 1:44:00.479 to three weeks where everyone who really loves of stuff, 1:44:00.800 --> 1:44:02.840 he's using all the vacation time or whatever. I'm sitting 1:44:02.880 --> 1:44:04.920 in the tree all day for two weeks straight or whatever. 1:44:05.439 --> 1:44:10.160 And that definitely wears on you mentally and physically, and um, 1:44:10.200 --> 1:44:12.479 and there's something to be said about coming out of that, 1:44:13.280 --> 1:44:15.160 and you can look back and it is it's not 1:44:15.200 --> 1:44:17.439 like climbing a mountain physically, it's not that kind of 1:44:17.600 --> 1:44:20.720 physical challenge, but it's a mental challenge. And that I 1:44:20.760 --> 1:44:23.240 was telling Lauren today, like, as long as I come 1:44:23.240 --> 1:44:25.439 out of Hunt like this, knowing that I gave it 1:44:25.520 --> 1:44:27.960 everything I could, Like I didn't leave anything on the field, 1:44:28.040 --> 1:44:30.360 or I left it on the field, I'm not I'm 1:44:30.400 --> 1:44:34.599 not in any way sports sports, sport ball, analogy forest you, Um, 1:44:34.880 --> 1:44:37.120 you don't cut any corners. If if as long as 1:44:37.160 --> 1:44:39.400 I can know that in my head, I can drive 1:44:39.439 --> 1:44:41.760 home tonight or tomorrow morning feel okay about the song. 1:44:42.479 --> 1:44:44.120 I think that one of the things that gives people 1:44:44.200 --> 1:44:48.920 discipline in all aspects. This isn't just hunting advice. But 1:44:48.960 --> 1:44:51.120 one of the things that I've starting to think gives 1:44:51.160 --> 1:44:55.960 people discipline is it comes as much from it comes 1:44:55.960 --> 1:44:59.080 as much from self hatred and self loathing as it 1:44:59.120 --> 1:45:03.679 does any kind of of for something in particular, because 1:45:04.080 --> 1:45:07.639 what you wounded, what you oftentimes wind up getting driven by, 1:45:07.680 --> 1:45:11.120 is hatred for the version of yourself that would quit. 1:45:12.120 --> 1:45:14.800 So it's not that you love the woodpeckers and chicken 1:45:14.800 --> 1:45:18.639 ea so much, and you do. I'm sure everyone does, 1:45:18.840 --> 1:45:22.280 or you know, anyone that gets into this game does, 1:45:23.720 --> 1:45:26.680 but it winds up being that you are like, I 1:45:26.760 --> 1:45:29.880 recognize that the smart thing to do would be be 1:45:30.000 --> 1:45:34.200 able to sit here all day or stay out overnight 1:45:34.400 --> 1:45:36.519 right now, or like sit up on this hill and 1:45:36.600 --> 1:45:43.040 keep glassing, or you name it, take one more cast right, 1:45:43.080 --> 1:45:45.240 go over the next hill and do one more shot gobble. 1:45:45.640 --> 1:45:47.760 You're like, I recognize that that's the way to be 1:45:47.840 --> 1:45:50.439 successful at this thing that I care about, And I 1:45:50.560 --> 1:45:57.400 hate myself for wanting to do otherwise other than what 1:45:57.439 --> 1:46:01.360 I recognized to be the best thing. And you're motivated 1:46:01.400 --> 1:46:03.680 by You're you're motivated by that as much as you 1:46:03.720 --> 1:46:09.960 are by uh, the positive end of things. I hear 1:46:10.000 --> 1:46:12.080 this from a lot of people. I have it, and 1:46:12.200 --> 1:46:15.320 my brother has it. Yeah, even like writing a book, 1:46:16.520 --> 1:46:19.519 you know, like I I hate the guy inside of 1:46:19.520 --> 1:46:23.760 me that wouldn't finish this. To Yanny's point earlier about 1:46:23.800 --> 1:46:26.000 how this might change with age, have you seen that 1:46:26.120 --> 1:46:28.519 change with age? Do you feel that way less than 1:46:28.560 --> 1:46:30.840 you used to or is it still just just as much. 1:46:31.720 --> 1:46:35.160 It's only different now because I recognize it more. I 1:46:35.240 --> 1:46:37.400 used to just be like driven to do some things, 1:46:37.400 --> 1:46:40.280 but I didn't really think about it very much, you know, 1:46:41.200 --> 1:46:45.680 Like here, here's here's an example. Uh, when I was 1:46:45.720 --> 1:46:47.360 brought up. My mother still lives in the house I 1:46:47.400 --> 1:46:49.439 was brought up in, and my room was on the 1:46:49.479 --> 1:46:52.120 second floor of a house and that overlook the lake, 1:46:52.280 --> 1:46:56.920 and there was these large oaks still are large um 1:46:57.120 --> 1:47:02.040 oaks in the backyard between my bedroom window in the lake. 1:47:03.000 --> 1:47:05.240 And I knew my mornings that we were supposed to 1:47:05.280 --> 1:47:07.000 go bolt wake up and go bowl hunting early in 1:47:07.040 --> 1:47:10.360 the morning. Um, I knew that it feels super rain 1:47:10.439 --> 1:47:13.600 and rainy and super wendy. We probably wouldn't go. And 1:47:13.680 --> 1:47:16.920 I would wake up and I would look out and 1:47:17.160 --> 1:47:22.240 would hope to see tons of rain and the limbs 1:47:22.280 --> 1:47:24.800 just going nuts because it meant we didn't have to go, 1:47:25.680 --> 1:47:33.320 And how guilty I would feel for hoping to see that. Yeah, 1:47:33.520 --> 1:47:36.280 this is the guilt, ship man. The self loathing and 1:47:36.320 --> 1:47:44.479 the guilt is a powerful, powerful force in life for me. Yeah, 1:47:44.520 --> 1:47:48.080 that's really interesting. And Quentin hunting or quit and fishing 1:47:49.479 --> 1:47:51.479 that kind of stuff. There. Day I took my daughter, 1:47:51.560 --> 1:47:53.680 my five year old daughter, We're all duck hunt and 1:47:53.760 --> 1:47:58.880 she's crying. She's laying inner waiters on the bank of 1:47:58.920 --> 1:48:05.640 a pond, crying. And there was a real part of 1:48:05.680 --> 1:48:08.160 me that like that. There's a real part of me 1:48:08.200 --> 1:48:12.760 that wanted to push against that very heavily. And I 1:48:12.920 --> 1:48:14.920 let her, made her do that for quite a while, 1:48:16.680 --> 1:48:22.160 because in the end, when she's my age, I think 1:48:22.200 --> 1:48:25.920 that's just gonna do her a lot more. That's gonna 1:48:25.920 --> 1:48:27.639 do a lot more for her than the other than 1:48:28.560 --> 1:48:32.720 anything else you could have done. Not I don't want 1:48:32.720 --> 1:48:35.360 to be sound statistic, and it probably does no I 1:48:35.439 --> 1:48:40.160 understand her getting She's definitely gonna love duck hunt. You 1:48:40.200 --> 1:48:43.000 know what, I spent most of my childhood cryings. My 1:48:43.040 --> 1:48:45.360 feet were cold, man, Not most of it but not 1:48:45.360 --> 1:48:47.120 just I don't want exaggerate. I spent a lot of 1:48:47.200 --> 1:48:53.200 days crying because I was cold to no one caring. No, man, 1:48:53.280 --> 1:48:56.280 I wonder about that too those days too, huh. But 1:48:56.320 --> 1:48:58.200 I look back on it now and I go, why 1:48:58.320 --> 1:49:01.120 did I become a hunter? Because I was yelled at 1:49:01.200 --> 1:49:05.160 for my nose running and sniffling my nose and I 1:49:05.240 --> 1:49:07.120 was cold. I was yelled at for this, that and 1:49:07.160 --> 1:49:09.240 the other, and it was just something inside of me 1:49:09.320 --> 1:49:12.719 that just like, like, no matter how much that was shitty, 1:49:13.120 --> 1:49:16.000 there was some other part, the chicken eas and the 1:49:16.000 --> 1:49:19.800 woodpeckers that I loved, and it kept me out there. 1:49:20.160 --> 1:49:23.280 But I feel like I've heard just as many stories 1:49:23.479 --> 1:49:26.000 now because I pay attention to it about raising kids 1:49:26.000 --> 1:49:29.960 in the outdoors and the kids are like fuck that. 1:49:31.800 --> 1:49:34.800 I just got pushed and pushed and pushed, and I'm 1:49:34.840 --> 1:49:38.160 not really into hunting. I think you got to weed 1:49:38.240 --> 1:49:40.720 them out. Those are the ones that gotta be weeded out. 1:49:40.800 --> 1:49:48.479 Maybe Rich you got any final thoughts? Um, Yeah, I do. Well, 1:49:48.520 --> 1:49:50.320 it's more of a question. I had a bunch and 1:49:50.320 --> 1:49:52.280 then I kind of got that was a good little comment. Man. 1:49:52.320 --> 1:49:55.040 I got kind of caught up in it. Um, One 1:49:55.040 --> 1:49:58.960 of the questions that I had earlier was like, do 1:49:59.040 --> 1:50:02.080 you think I don't know if mastery is the white word, 1:50:02.080 --> 1:50:04.000 but when you mark when you were saying that, like 1:50:04.520 --> 1:50:06.640 you got all these ideas about like what to do 1:50:06.680 --> 1:50:09.360 next and the next hunt, and you're like a really 1:50:09.360 --> 1:50:13.960 good white tail hunter, do you, like, do you feel 1:50:13.960 --> 1:50:15.559 like you'll ever get to a point where you like 1:50:17.280 --> 1:50:21.439 are mastering this kind of hunting? And I like that 1:50:21.520 --> 1:50:24.080 can't that's not like, you know, there's there's so many 1:50:24.160 --> 1:50:26.280 variables when it comes to animals that it's like that's 1:50:26.280 --> 1:50:28.599 not really like a fair word. But do you think 1:50:28.600 --> 1:50:29.920 you'll get to the point where you just like have 1:50:30.040 --> 1:50:32.720 it just like you'll know where something's gonna be when? 1:50:32.800 --> 1:50:37.320 Or I think that anyone who is really really good 1:50:37.600 --> 1:50:40.479 at white tail hunting will always believe that they have 1:50:40.560 --> 1:50:44.320 not yet mastered it, because I think that's a good answer, dude. 1:50:45.120 --> 1:50:49.160 I think that the I think you're constantly learning it 1:50:49.280 --> 1:50:53.120 isn't always evolving. I keep saying chess match, but it is. 1:50:53.439 --> 1:50:56.479 There's so many new lessons learned I get every single year. 1:50:57.200 --> 1:51:02.759 I mean, certainly people achieve levels of consistent quote unquote 1:51:02.800 --> 1:51:04.920 success that are on a different level than a lot 1:51:05.000 --> 1:51:09.560 of people. Um, but there's always more and that's the 1:51:09.560 --> 1:51:11.240 fun of it. That's why I think that we keep 1:51:11.280 --> 1:51:15.920 coming back to your in your near out never it's 1:51:15.960 --> 1:51:22.800 never the same. I love that. Yeah, you're nineteen. More 1:51:22.800 --> 1:51:27.400 things you wanted to bring up? No, uh no, oh, 1:51:27.439 --> 1:51:30.479 the age thing about sitting in a tree, I would 1:51:30.479 --> 1:51:33.439 say that I did have a thought today or past 1:51:33.520 --> 1:51:35.600 couple of days that if the pressure of filming and 1:51:35.680 --> 1:51:42.040 not screwing up a hunt because of the filming presence, 1:51:43.040 --> 1:51:44.759 Like if if I was just sitting in a tree 1:51:45.400 --> 1:51:48.479 for twelve hours, I think I'd be into it, Like 1:51:48.520 --> 1:51:53.080 I wouldn't be bombed distressed. You'd like it, I'd like it. 1:51:53.400 --> 1:51:57.559 Hold you, will you take me up on the hunt invitation? 1:51:58.800 --> 1:52:03.960 Which at your place? Yeah? Definitely, dude, definitely. All right. 1:52:04.000 --> 1:52:06.080 I have a new freezer that I don't have anything 1:52:06.160 --> 1:52:08.360 that's empty. Alright, I have a whole fridge that has 1:52:08.400 --> 1:52:11.080 nothing in it. Then you gotta make a trip up 1:52:11.080 --> 1:52:15.000 to Michigan. I'll do it. I'll do it. Let's do it, Seth. 1:52:16.040 --> 1:52:21.240 Have you said anything yet? Yeah? Early, okay? Um, I 1:52:21.280 --> 1:52:25.800 shot my first bucket twelve o'clock noon, and I just 1:52:25.920 --> 1:52:29.719 remember not wanting to be there. And I was twelve 1:52:29.760 --> 1:52:33.680 years old, but now what time? And you have been 1:52:33.760 --> 1:52:35.600 up there since, David, Yes, since it was it was 1:52:35.640 --> 1:52:37.599 an all day sit. So you were sitting till noon 1:52:37.640 --> 1:52:41.080 at twelve years of age because my dad was like, 1:52:41.120 --> 1:52:46.519 you're sitting all day and and that was the last, 1:52:46.880 --> 1:52:49.200 very last day of the rifle season and you were 1:52:49.240 --> 1:52:52.800 a hunter trapper. Yeah, I could. I love sitting all 1:52:52.880 --> 1:52:59.120 day now seven. Yeah, so you got it's a little 1:52:59.200 --> 1:53:02.759 a little tough to do, like first week of the season. 1:53:02.840 --> 1:53:08.360 I mean, I don't I don't see. So you you 1:53:08.439 --> 1:53:13.600 came from school hard knockers. Yeah, you like it. I 1:53:13.640 --> 1:53:16.160 love it. You're glad now, I'm glad. Now I'd do 1:53:16.200 --> 1:53:19.280 the same with my kids if I ever do that. 1:53:19.280 --> 1:53:21.360 That's what That's what you wind up struggling with, man, 1:53:21.360 --> 1:53:24.280 because there was so much stuff that I hate it 1:53:24.360 --> 1:53:26.840 about my dad. And the older I get, the more 1:53:26.880 --> 1:53:28.680 I'm like, man, I kind of see now where he 1:53:28.760 --> 1:53:31.720 was coming from, A kind of see where he's coming from. 1:53:31.760 --> 1:53:34.439 And one of the biggest things he had is he 1:53:34.560 --> 1:53:39.080 was not interested in being friends with his kids. And 1:53:39.120 --> 1:53:42.840 I used to be just baffled by that. And now 1:53:42.840 --> 1:53:44.720 I'm like, I kind of see what you're getting at. 1:53:46.880 --> 1:53:52.360 It's kind of see because he's dead anyway. Yeah, he's like, 1:53:52.720 --> 1:53:54.519 I'm gonna die. I think you're doing to be good 1:53:54.640 --> 1:54:00.840 friends of me, couple be friends with your friends. That's yeah, Mark, 1:54:00.880 --> 1:54:06.880 any concluders, Um, you know, I'm lacking any kind of 1:54:07.080 --> 1:54:10.920 terribly poignant concluder today except for I'm really glad you 1:54:10.920 --> 1:54:12.160 guys got to come up here and do this when 1:54:12.200 --> 1:54:14.280 it was fun to get to share my passion with 1:54:14.320 --> 1:54:17.880 you guys a little bit um and you know, teach 1:54:17.920 --> 1:54:23.160 you guys about sund control, which I appreciate the effort, 1:54:23.280 --> 1:54:28.160 but it was it was subpar. Still, I saw you 1:54:28.200 --> 1:54:31.400 saw some major I saw some major infractions. Yeah, well, 1:54:31.439 --> 1:54:34.200 he's okay, can we bring this up next time we 1:54:34.240 --> 1:54:37.840 talk major infractions? You pay for him, and you pay 1:54:37.920 --> 1:54:41.000 for him, and Mark is Mark has a lot of 1:54:41.000 --> 1:54:45.880 things he does, and Mark admits I don't know, uh 1:54:46.400 --> 1:54:49.440 what they all work. But if I do all of 1:54:49.480 --> 1:54:54.800 them and it makes a ten percent chance, I'll just 1:54:54.920 --> 1:54:58.240 keep doing them all. Yeah, that's that's a big enough Yeah, exactly, 1:54:58.360 --> 1:55:01.800 that's enough help. I was skeptical at the beginning of 1:55:01.840 --> 1:55:05.240 the week. Now after seeing all these deer hit that wall. 1:55:05.680 --> 1:55:09.640 I'm like, I get it, dude. Then we had I 1:55:09.720 --> 1:55:12.880 was going to okay. So we had a number of 1:55:12.880 --> 1:55:15.400 different incidents where we got winded, even though I was 1:55:15.440 --> 1:55:17.600 doing a lot of things that I try to do. 1:55:17.680 --> 1:55:22.440 But it was definitely a compromise scent control regimen, just 1:55:22.520 --> 1:55:24.960 it wasn't perfect given all the different things going on. 1:55:25.000 --> 1:55:29.160 Twice as much smell, twice as much smell. Um, I'm 1:55:29.200 --> 1:55:31.000 just a really smelly guy. I think that was it. 1:55:31.280 --> 1:55:34.680 Lauren might be a smelly guy wears very loud jackets. 1:55:35.280 --> 1:55:40.280 Uh no, but you're not gonna get away with with 1:55:40.880 --> 1:55:44.200 your sent all the time. But just last week I 1:55:44.280 --> 1:55:46.240 had a five and a half year buck go down 1:55:46.320 --> 1:55:47.880 wind of me and not hit a wall at all. 1:55:48.600 --> 1:55:52.920 So sometimes taking all of these precautions does help. Um, 1:55:53.000 --> 1:55:55.440 sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it does, but I'm willing to 1:55:55.480 --> 1:55:57.640 do it all the time to get those few times 1:55:57.640 --> 1:56:04.200 where it does. I'm all for it, dude. Nothing you're doing, 1:56:04.320 --> 1:56:07.160 there's nothing you're doing about saying control that. That was 1:56:07.240 --> 1:56:10.320 like something I hadn't heard of or I mean it's 1:56:10.320 --> 1:56:13.000 all like pretty much industry not industry standard, but like 1:56:13.360 --> 1:56:17.560 you don't have like what you don't have weird like 1:56:17.680 --> 1:56:21.320 magical things you think. No, I mean you have things 1:56:21.320 --> 1:56:24.480 that like are like very practical things you don't have, Like, um, 1:56:24.520 --> 1:56:28.480 I find that if I, you know, eat celery three 1:56:28.560 --> 1:56:31.720 days before and then do a cleanse, you know, it's 1:56:31.720 --> 1:56:34.480 just good stuff. Like it's very similar to what fur 1:56:34.560 --> 1:56:37.880 trappers would do fox trappers. I was surprised, though, no 1:56:38.160 --> 1:56:42.520 sense of any sort you're saying like a cover cent 1:56:42.680 --> 1:56:46.640 or yeah or attract incent. No. It's illegal though now 1:56:46.640 --> 1:56:49.920 in Michigan to use any kind of natural um yearine 1:56:49.960 --> 1:56:53.040 based center or anything. So that's I never used them before. 1:56:53.600 --> 1:56:59.320 But really you can't buy what you can. You can 1:56:59.600 --> 1:57:03.240 you can, and I think still can't use it because 1:57:03.240 --> 1:57:08.320 of chronic wasting disease. Really can I get my concluding thought? 1:57:09.400 --> 1:57:14.920 My concluding thought is if one wanted to go find 1:57:15.000 --> 1:57:24.160 all kinds of um awesome merchandise, mediator podcast stuff, soon 1:57:24.200 --> 1:57:28.640 to be wired to hunt merchandise, all kinds of T shirts, Um, 1:57:28.720 --> 1:57:31.520 your blout shirt. We got some amazing other new stuff 1:57:31.600 --> 1:57:33.560 coming out, and then a uh and if you've been 1:57:33.560 --> 1:57:37.720 watching the new episodes of the show on Netflix and 1:57:37.800 --> 1:57:43.120 you see like cool ship there first light apparel. We 1:57:43.200 --> 1:57:46.640 have all this stuff for sale. Um, go to the 1:57:46.640 --> 1:57:48.440 meater dot com and going to the store and check 1:57:48.440 --> 1:57:51.640 it out. That's my first concluder. Second concluded was I 1:57:51.640 --> 1:57:54.680 thought that was pretty good deep fried turkey, very good 1:57:54.720 --> 1:58:01.800 deep fried turkey, deep fried turkey nuggets. Where's that turkey from? 1:58:02.240 --> 1:58:07.840 He's wild turkey There two rests, two lobes like that man, 1:58:08.280 --> 1:58:15.800 two lobes. Deep fried turkey chunks, hard to beat, sweet 1:58:15.840 --> 1:58:24.160 sweet chili sauce, birthday Birthday dinner A hundred and seventy. 1:58:25.640 --> 1:58:31.760 That's why you can make that turkey calls huhdy halfa 1:58:31.880 --> 1:58:37.200 to ninety six halfway. That's a rough way to position 1:58:39.920 --> 1:58:44.280 oldest guy in the room. That's it. Does that turkey 1:58:44.280 --> 1:58:47.000 purer again? I've got my hair. Just give me one 1:58:47.000 --> 1:58:59.560 more turkey purer. I love that ship. Thanks for asking, 1:59:00.280 --> 1:59:04.560 so you never get to me, big, big room of people. UM. 1:59:04.760 --> 1:59:07.840 I was thinking, if you wanted to become better white 1:59:07.880 --> 1:59:10.120 tele deer hunter, you should go check out Wired to 1:59:10.240 --> 1:59:14.120 Hunt because anything anything you ever want to know about 1:59:14.160 --> 1:59:18.840 white tales and more, it's all there. That's why I 1:59:18.840 --> 1:59:20.640 wanted to bring I meant to bring that up. I'm 1:59:20.640 --> 1:59:22.600 glad you brought that up because Mark talks about this 1:59:22.600 --> 1:59:27.720 ship all the time. Yes, and all that stuff now 1:59:27.840 --> 1:59:31.320 is actually on the meat either dot com website though, Yanni. 1:59:31.960 --> 1:59:33.360 So you go to the media dot com and you're 1:59:33.440 --> 1:59:35.920 see all my new content with the word Hunt podcast 1:59:36.040 --> 1:59:37.960 is available and where you find pod The word on 1:59:38.080 --> 1:59:41.360 podcast is available anywhere you find podcasts. My video series 1:59:41.400 --> 1:59:44.440 is on the website and on our YouTube channel. Regular 1:59:44.480 --> 1:59:48.360 blog posts and the Wired Hunt merchandise is not soon 1:59:48.400 --> 1:59:50.520 to be available on the store. It is actually on 1:59:50.560 --> 1:59:53.520 the store as of right now. It is. So you 1:59:53.600 --> 1:59:57.520 got Wired Hun hats, word on t shirts and there'll 1:59:57.520 --> 1:59:59.080 be some new things come down the coome. I don't 1:59:59.120 --> 2:00:01.600 have one of those. It's where you've never given me one. 2:00:02.080 --> 2:00:04.840 I didn't Well, I don't know you'd be like, I 2:00:04.880 --> 2:00:08.320 feel like you should present one to me. What the hell? Mark, 2:00:08.640 --> 2:00:11.120 what on word to Hunt podcast? What would you say? Like, 2:00:11.160 --> 2:00:13.320 what percent of the time you guys talking about like 2:00:13.440 --> 2:00:18.840 white tail stuff? Oh, nineties seven percent? Three? Like one 2:00:19.040 --> 2:00:21.000 one episode of a year, I'll go on an elkhon 2:00:21.120 --> 2:00:25.120 or something one episode a year. We'll talk turkeys, um 2:00:25.320 --> 2:00:28.880 no merrill, marrit soul advice. Well, there's little bits of 2:00:28.920 --> 2:00:32.280 marital advice and family advice sprinkled within each episode. Usually 2:00:32.360 --> 2:00:36.160 give me a piece of marital advice. Oh gosh, I'll 2:00:36.200 --> 2:00:41.840 only been married. Uh uh advice to every one. Know 2:00:42.000 --> 2:00:44.360 you're I got married chosen thirteen, so just over five years. 2:00:44.640 --> 2:00:48.480 Give me, yeah, my best piece of marriage rate. All right, 2:00:48.720 --> 2:00:51.040 and I stole this from someone else, but it is 2:00:51.240 --> 2:00:54.920 uh piece before justice. You still have, Randy Newberg. Yeah, 2:00:54.960 --> 2:00:57.160 I told you I stole it from someone. But that's 2:00:57.200 --> 2:00:59.200 the best advice I avergant. I stole my piece from 2:00:59.200 --> 2:01:01.880 be honest, what's that. It's a good one. My best 2:01:01.880 --> 2:01:05.200 piece of merril advice. Okay, when you're fighting with the 2:01:05.320 --> 2:01:09.800 mrs or the early mister, Okay, let's say you're in 2:01:09.840 --> 2:01:12.560 the fight. Let's say you're like you're fighting over give 2:01:12.560 --> 2:01:15.400 me something. People fight about whether you how to load 2:01:15.400 --> 2:01:21.000 the dishwasher. Who fights about that, Steve? Yeah, well, not 2:01:21.120 --> 2:01:22.640 how to load it, but whether it should be loaded 2:01:22.640 --> 2:01:25.000 at all. There's a book about marriage. It's called marriage. 2:01:25.120 --> 2:01:27.160 It's it's got a name. It's like it's about it's 2:01:27.160 --> 2:01:30.360 a plemt because it's like it's about marriage. It's marriage 2:01:30.360 --> 2:01:32.560 worth it. And there's a line in the book where 2:01:32.600 --> 2:01:36.800 the author says, marriage is an institution that makes it 2:01:36.840 --> 2:01:38.800 so you cannot load the dishwasher in the way that 2:01:38.840 --> 2:01:45.880 makes the most sense to you. The cynical right. However, Okay, 2:01:45.960 --> 2:01:52.760 let's say you're fighting about, uh, the dishwasher. Here's another 2:01:52.800 --> 2:01:55.600 example of the color of the paint that you're gonna 2:01:55.680 --> 2:01:59.640 put in the newly remold bathroom. Yeah, fighting about the 2:01:59.680 --> 2:02:02.120 color paint in the bathroom because you got you've always 2:02:02.120 --> 2:02:04.280 pictured in your head and it's just gonna like that white. 2:02:04.480 --> 2:02:06.760 Everybody paints your bathroom white. And maybe it's not necessarily 2:02:06.760 --> 2:02:10.000 a fight, but it's like a heated discussion, and it's 2:02:10.160 --> 2:02:14.360 getting towards being a fight just because someone might be tired, 2:02:14.680 --> 2:02:18.200 someone else might be thinking about hunting. You are you 2:02:18.200 --> 2:02:24.840 feeling to get the paint and you're kind of sitting 2:02:24.840 --> 2:02:28.040 there like, I think it should be white? And because 2:02:28.480 --> 2:02:33.120 of managing your relationship, do you want to give the 2:02:33.120 --> 2:02:35.320 advice because you're the one who gave it to me? No, 2:02:35.400 --> 2:02:38.080 I I just know I just want to co host 2:02:38.120 --> 2:02:41.000 this place. He's the color comments. So you're like it 2:02:41.000 --> 2:02:43.200 should be white, you know, because that's what I that's 2:02:43.240 --> 2:02:46.160 what I got in my head is white and and um, 2:02:46.280 --> 2:02:49.080 your partner is so I was thinking to be blue, 2:02:49.880 --> 2:02:53.120 and then pretty soon you're like you're in it and 2:02:53.120 --> 2:02:58.680 you're fighting about it. Your honestest thing is you then 2:02:58.760 --> 2:03:02.480 need to say your break to fight for a second, 2:03:03.720 --> 2:03:07.480 and you rate on a one to ten, not how 2:03:07.560 --> 2:03:10.520 much you care to win, but you rate on one 2:03:10.560 --> 2:03:13.840 to ten how much the issue actually matters to you? 2:03:14.960 --> 2:03:18.080 And is this a verbal like you say to each other, Hey, 2:03:18.200 --> 2:03:21.160 time out, how much does this actually matter to you? 2:03:21.600 --> 2:03:24.160 Your wife? Yeah, and you say how much matter to you? 2:03:24.240 --> 2:03:27.040 You'd be like, you know, so you just throw the 2:03:27.160 --> 2:03:31.600 number out before you even asked. You just say that's 2:03:31.600 --> 2:03:34.200 to be my wife right now. We've been using this 2:03:34.280 --> 2:03:36.360 a great effect, and I don't need to say. I'll 2:03:36.360 --> 2:03:38.800 just say like this is this is a seven for 2:03:38.880 --> 2:03:42.240 me man, And she's like, this is a seven for you. 2:03:42.800 --> 2:03:46.120 This is like a three for me. That means you win, 2:03:48.800 --> 2:03:51.120 and you wind up because I wind up being in 2:03:51.160 --> 2:03:53.440 these I wind up being in these fights with my 2:03:53.480 --> 2:03:58.360 wife about things that once I stop and think about it, 2:03:58.360 --> 2:04:01.040 it's I'm fighting about things that are twos and threes 2:04:01.720 --> 2:04:03.600 because you just get so wrapped up and like that, 2:04:03.720 --> 2:04:08.840 you get so wrapped up just like winning battles very 2:04:08.880 --> 2:04:11.640 interesting and I have in their day, like there's this 2:04:11.720 --> 2:04:16.880 there's this rug that doesn't oh it doesn't Like every 2:04:16.920 --> 2:04:18.840 kid that runs through the house gets laid up by 2:04:18.840 --> 2:04:21.360 this trip and on this ruck this like skidder across 2:04:21.400 --> 2:04:23.240 the floor and smashed into the wall. And one day 2:04:23.360 --> 2:04:25.160 like roll the rug up. My wife's like into the ruck, 2:04:25.320 --> 2:04:29.520 like I got rugs gone, and she wants the ruck back, 2:04:29.560 --> 2:04:32.520 and I'm like, dude, this is like a way I'm 2:04:32.600 --> 2:04:34.600 going inspired to say, this is the seven or eight. 2:04:34.720 --> 2:04:38.160 This is a seven or eight on me. And she's like, 2:04:38.360 --> 2:04:41.280 it's like a one. I'm annoyed that you took my rug, 2:04:41.480 --> 2:04:43.400 But really, when I think about it, I really don't. 2:04:43.560 --> 2:04:45.520 It's a one. I don't know why I'm arguing with you, Bob. 2:04:45.520 --> 2:04:48.440 If you hate the rock, you hate the rug. Cool. Wow, 2:04:49.600 --> 2:04:52.880 that seems like a life good marriage advice. Man, it's 2:04:52.960 --> 2:04:58.200 quite simple. I like that a lot. Noted. It's gonna 2:04:58.240 --> 2:05:00.840 get me another five more years of marriage? Can I 2:05:00.880 --> 2:05:07.520 give you one more? Um, When there's like a large 2:05:07.600 --> 2:05:10.040 decision that that needs to be made, and the decision 2:05:10.160 --> 2:05:14.080 is made of a big great bundling of interests, say 2:05:14.160 --> 2:05:17.800 buying a house. I have found my wife and I 2:05:17.840 --> 2:05:21.640 have found that it works really good. If I say, 2:05:21.680 --> 2:05:26.360 here's the parts of this that I care about. I 2:05:26.640 --> 2:05:29.200 care about this element of this, and I care about 2:05:29.240 --> 2:05:36.280 this element of this. You run the project. Everything that 2:05:36.320 --> 2:05:39.200 I'm not mentioning right now is you. But do not 2:05:39.360 --> 2:05:43.000 screw me on these two things. And then you run 2:05:43.240 --> 2:05:48.920 and go and assigning ownership of something and in clarifying like, 2:05:49.120 --> 2:05:55.680 but you own it. But here's the deal. And this 2:05:55.840 --> 2:05:58.440 is an instance where the other person wants as much 2:05:58.560 --> 2:06:01.760 ownership as possible. M hmm, yeah, and you don't want 2:06:01.760 --> 2:06:03.400 to relinquish it because you don't want to get screwed 2:06:03.400 --> 2:06:06.440 on a couple of points. Clarify the points, and then 2:06:06.520 --> 2:06:08.840 give the person autonomy to go do what they needed 2:06:08.880 --> 2:06:13.520 to do. It's a big old vacation. Vacation vacage would 2:06:13.520 --> 2:06:15.640 be like, listen, man, I want to be able to spearfish. 2:06:19.120 --> 2:06:22.760 That's all. That's all. That's all I need to have. 2:06:22.840 --> 2:06:26.160 That's like relatively good access to some spear fishing. Other 2:06:26.200 --> 2:06:33.320 than that, I'm out Google Walt Disney World slash to 2:06:33.440 --> 2:06:39.840 the two come together. That's good stuff. Yeah, guy, you've 2:06:39.840 --> 2:06:44.120 been married a long time twenty three years, give me 2:06:44.200 --> 2:06:53.640 a hot marriage advice. Shut up and listen. Married to 2:06:53.720 --> 2:06:55.760 the best woman on the planet, and she's put up 2:06:55.800 --> 2:06:58.320 with a lot for me, but a lover to death. 2:06:59.600 --> 2:07:01.680 I'm sure she trade me in, but I wouldn't trade 2:07:01.720 --> 2:07:07.560 her for nothing. And uh, yes, marriage just work. It's 2:07:07.760 --> 2:07:11.760 hard work. It's hard work. But when you truly work 2:07:11.840 --> 2:07:15.280 at it. You know. We have kids, but we love 2:07:15.320 --> 2:07:18.400 our kids to death. But uh, we're really growing to 2:07:18.440 --> 2:07:25.200 love each other too. No, women are awesome, awesome, you 2:07:25.280 --> 2:07:29.120 know my sorry, I don't mean to jump on the 2:07:29.160 --> 2:07:34.480 rest of your advice. That's just it. When before my 2:07:34.560 --> 2:07:36.760 wife and I got married, she had I can't remember, 2:07:36.840 --> 2:07:38.360 I guess it's a bridle shower or something like that. 2:07:39.040 --> 2:07:41.960 And um, everyone was asked to write down there like 2:07:42.000 --> 2:07:45.120 their best piece of advice, what marriage advice or something 2:07:45.560 --> 2:07:47.720 on a note and you put the notes in the thing. 2:07:47.800 --> 2:07:49.480 And then after we got married, she got to open 2:07:49.560 --> 2:07:54.520 up the box and read everybody's marital advice. And I 2:07:54.640 --> 2:07:56.760 think I either saw some er she showed me some 2:07:56.920 --> 2:07:58.960 of them, and she showed me what her grandma had 2:07:59.040 --> 2:08:01.520 wrote to her. And at the time when her grandmar 2:08:01.560 --> 2:08:03.880 wrote was it was very simple. It was just two words, 2:08:04.400 --> 2:08:07.680 three words um, And I thought, oh, like that was 2:08:07.760 --> 2:08:10.560 like the laziest answer, and at the that's all I thought, 2:08:10.600 --> 2:08:11.640 But it was like I was just like a really 2:08:11.720 --> 2:08:15.320 lazy answer. And then my wife though, took that that 2:08:15.480 --> 2:08:17.720 little post and note and she put it on the 2:08:17.840 --> 2:08:22.400 picture of her grandma Grandpa and it's still in her bathroom, 2:08:22.440 --> 2:08:24.440 like studying on the counter. And now years later, I 2:08:24.520 --> 2:08:26.120 see it, like every time I happened to be in there, 2:08:26.160 --> 2:08:28.000 I see it, and I think about it a little 2:08:28.000 --> 2:08:30.480 bit more each time. And now when I look at 2:08:30.480 --> 2:08:31.760 and I think about it, and I think about maybe 2:08:31.800 --> 2:08:35.640 what she meant by this three words, it's very poignant 2:08:35.680 --> 2:08:38.600 and it's it just simply her very best marital advice 2:08:39.360 --> 2:08:46.160 was simply giant box, No that would be good though. 2:08:47.400 --> 2:08:53.000 It was simply love each other. Yeah, just love each 2:08:53.000 --> 2:08:55.560 other and all that goes into that. So I see that, 2:08:55.640 --> 2:08:59.920 Nollie every day, and it just it's kind of like, yeah, yeah, 2:09:00.200 --> 2:09:02.280 if you're thinking about that with all the different decisions 2:09:02.320 --> 2:09:06.200 you make, that is kind of the key, like just 2:09:06.320 --> 2:09:09.520 to remind yourself too. You know what, uh, you know 2:09:09.560 --> 2:09:11.520 what I did. This is marriage advice. You know what 2:09:11.600 --> 2:09:14.040 I did. When my kids are born, for all three 2:09:14.120 --> 2:09:20.080 of them, as I UH wrote them a big long 2:09:20.240 --> 2:09:26.800 letter that explains our lives, where I think they were conceived, 2:09:27.640 --> 2:09:32.080 what the circumstances, what our lives look like, what are 2:09:32.160 --> 2:09:35.000 my sort of apprehensions about them coming into the world, 2:09:35.200 --> 2:09:38.000 what are my hopes and fears for them, what's going 2:09:38.080 --> 2:09:42.600 on in general, what their parents were like. And then 2:09:42.720 --> 2:09:47.440 I uh put my own address on them. And then 2:09:47.800 --> 2:09:49.480 on the day they were born, I dropped him so 2:09:49.520 --> 2:09:52.680 they would get postmarked, and then I took him in 2:09:52.760 --> 2:09:59.880 back and sealed them in my pro I think, bad, 2:10:00.000 --> 2:10:02.720 you sealed them, and I'll give them to him when 2:10:02.720 --> 2:10:07.560 they get married. Probably that's cool. That's amazing, big long letters. 2:10:08.840 --> 2:10:14.320 I I I almost would dread seeing what's in the 2:10:14.440 --> 2:10:16.000 letter from eight years ago. Well, that's how I was 2:10:16.000 --> 2:10:18.800 gonna say that. Do you regret anything that you wrote 2:10:18.840 --> 2:10:21.080 in these letters? Or I don't want to know because 2:10:21.080 --> 2:10:22.480 I don't want to chicken out and not give it 2:10:22.560 --> 2:10:25.640 to him because they're very telling. It would be a 2:10:25.680 --> 2:10:30.440 lot better if I was dead. They're very telling, interesting 2:10:30.640 --> 2:10:32.360 like I would want. It would be smart to read 2:10:32.440 --> 2:10:34.480 it by yourself. Where did you get this idea? This 2:10:34.560 --> 2:10:36.920 just came to you or no, I don't think I 2:10:37.040 --> 2:10:39.560 made it up. Man, I can't remember, but I don't 2:10:39.600 --> 2:10:40.880 think I made it up. I feel like if I 2:10:40.920 --> 2:10:42.680 made it up, I'd be pretty proud of having made 2:10:42.680 --> 2:10:45.840 it up. And I remember making it up. It's good. 2:10:46.600 --> 2:10:48.720 I don't know why you've never chicken it out about it. 2:10:49.040 --> 2:10:50.800 I'm not gonna, man, I got a lot of difference 2:10:50.880 --> 2:10:53.720 between you and you eight years ago. It was so different. No, 2:10:53.840 --> 2:10:57.680 because they're really like they're really really telling of what 2:10:58.280 --> 2:11:01.200 who and what were eight years ago? Yeah, just like 2:11:01.320 --> 2:11:04.120 stuff like around uh we we had two kids and 2:11:04.240 --> 2:11:07.760 that was all we wanted at the time, and we 2:11:07.880 --> 2:11:11.560 had a third and telling someone that story. I wouldn't 2:11:11.560 --> 2:11:17.240 tell him that story when he's eight, Like what was 2:11:17.280 --> 2:11:19.320 going on in our lives? What led us to the decision? 2:11:19.400 --> 2:11:22.320 I don't know, just telling stuff. Thank your kids will 2:11:22.320 --> 2:11:24.880 be smart enough to read it in the voice of 2:11:25.120 --> 2:11:28.840 you as a late thirty year as the late thirty 2:11:28.920 --> 2:11:31.440 year old, and not the sixty year old you'll be 2:11:31.640 --> 2:11:34.560 when they read it. Yeah, I hope. So it feels 2:11:34.560 --> 2:11:38.240 a good letter. They're pretty good letters. I don't doubt it. 2:11:38.320 --> 2:11:40.280 Put a lot of effort in writing them name letters. 2:11:42.960 --> 2:11:48.640 Is that it? That's it? Man, I got one more guy, 2:11:48.760 --> 2:11:52.440 thanks man for making a fantastic hunting spot. Man. I 2:11:52.520 --> 2:11:57.320 got to see a lot of deer uh activity and 2:11:57.800 --> 2:12:00.920 and what am I trying to say? Things that they 2:12:01.000 --> 2:12:05.760 do behavior behavior that in all my years in white 2:12:05.840 --> 2:12:09.240 til hunt and I had never seen, yep, all kinds 2:12:09.280 --> 2:12:15.360 of deer peeing on their tarsal glands and scrapes. I 2:12:15.440 --> 2:12:19.280 didn't see you rubs happening, but no, yeah, I saw scrapes, 2:12:19.320 --> 2:12:23.720 no rubs, the licking branch seeing multiple times you guys 2:12:23.840 --> 2:12:25.960 heard a fight, you know. I got to see a 2:12:26.040 --> 2:12:29.840 buck come up and rub its orbital gland on the 2:12:29.960 --> 2:12:33.520 licking branch, work a scrape piste down his leg. A 2:12:33.600 --> 2:12:36.240 couple of minutes later, maybe more than a couple minutes later, 2:12:36.240 --> 2:12:41.840 another buck came, didn't do his orbital gland, but worked 2:12:41.880 --> 2:12:44.480 a scrape piste down his leg, and I got two 2:12:44.520 --> 2:12:46.640 cup minutes later watch a doe coming camp out on 2:12:46.760 --> 2:12:52.120 that spot. Nice. That's seeing some dear type ship going on. Man. Grunting, 2:12:52.240 --> 2:12:57.640 I bet you I heard maybe twenty grunts this week, fighting, grunting, 2:12:58.640 --> 2:13:01.560 chasing squirrels every which one. Normally when you see, I 2:13:01.640 --> 2:13:04.320 don't care if it is November ten. In Michigan, when 2:13:04.360 --> 2:13:07.560 you see a deer running, you're like, oh, goddamn, no no, 2:13:08.080 --> 2:13:11.520 but here you're like, oh, it must be a buck coming, 2:13:12.200 --> 2:13:15.760 you know, yeah, it's running from other It's really cool. 2:13:16.440 --> 2:13:19.760 It's really cool, like the just the wildlife habitat work 2:13:19.840 --> 2:13:23.040 here and watching it like bloom and take shape. Man, 2:13:23.600 --> 2:13:26.080 we're just getting started, and I mean, it's been a 2:13:26.120 --> 2:13:28.320 pleasure having you all here, and I would like to 2:13:28.400 --> 2:13:30.720 know any and all. Thanks you guys. Think we might 2:13:30.760 --> 2:13:33.280 be able to do to make things a better experience. 2:13:33.600 --> 2:13:37.880 Cut more shooting lanes, Yeah that's yeah. Yeah, that's how 2:13:37.960 --> 2:13:39.680 you get it killed, but you're kind of focused on 2:13:39.760 --> 2:13:44.040 getting it alive. Yeah, don't don't worry. I'll be I'll 2:13:44.080 --> 2:13:47.800 be trim and lanes here soon. Alright, everybody, thanks for 2:13:47.880 --> 2:14:02.360 listening to