Speaker 1: All right, welcome to episode from a House. Shane mcinalley
Speaker 1: here finally, Hi, when it was taken forever. You got
Speaker 1: sick last week, I know, and I'm barely if you
Speaker 1: could tell I still sort of have this which I
Speaker 1: prefer my voice like this, but I couldn't talk at
Speaker 1: all this week. So and I actually want to get
Speaker 1: to you know a lot of your stuff and just
Speaker 1: a quick rundown before because I have something else i'll
Speaker 1: talk to you about. But number one songs of yours
Speaker 1: real quick, just so the folks out there listening, because
Speaker 1: you're like the most famous not famous person in Nashville. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's probably that's that's a that's a good
Speaker 1: way to say it. Yeah, because you have the Vampaire
Speaker 1: better dig to Americ kids, Kenny Chesney, Luke Bryan, Kissed Tomorrow,
Speaker 1: Goodbye Lady and Abelleum Downtown, Sam Hunt, Leave the Night
Speaker 1: on Derk Spentley different for girls, say you do Thomas
Speaker 1: Rhett t shirt. There's a lot and it keeps going.
Speaker 1: But that's how influential and like a big dealy is.
Speaker 1: Now with that being said, I kind of want to
Speaker 1: talk to you about like theory for a second at
Speaker 1: philosophy because that would be more fun. Um, well, don't worry,
Speaker 1: we'll get to the part where you have to be
Speaker 1: like But and I also think Shane might be the
Speaker 1: richest person that's been up here, because we were not
Speaker 1: think that now we were we were thinking, and it's
Speaker 1: either richest person we've and I have no idea much
Speaker 1: money you have, but I know what these songs pay.
Speaker 1: If you right him in twos or threes, you're probably well,
Speaker 1: I think we have the richest Bobby cast. Yes, it's funny.
Speaker 1: I always joke about two. I always joke to friends like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm rich, But when someone else says it, all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, you get read and you want to go,
Speaker 1: will you know, I think we have a new winner
Speaker 1: and until yeah, I think right now you're reached by
Speaker 1: the standards of where I came from clubhouse. Let's get
Speaker 1: to all that. And he was, you're on Star Search
Speaker 1: or so much I want to get to But this
Speaker 1: came out this week, and you're the guy to talk
Speaker 1: to about this because you're a writer and a producer
Speaker 1: and you're an artist. So here is edge sher in
Speaker 1: shape you right? You know your love was handing me
Speaker 1: for somebody like me coming. Now great, All that's great, right,
Speaker 1: So this week he had to add the writers of
Speaker 1: TLC No Scrubs to his song now here is the
Speaker 1: part of No Scrubs. I'm gonna plan it back again,
Speaker 1: So it's you know, da da da da da, I
Speaker 1: don't want no Scott. When you hear those two, what
Speaker 1: do you here? Well, it's funny. I just heard about
Speaker 1: this and I was I literally was thinking about it
Speaker 1: this morning because I thought maybe the reason the writer's
Speaker 1: noticed it was because at the end of that one
Speaker 1: phrase he says, somebody liked me and they say no
Speaker 1: love from me. Sometimes just the phonetically the syllables, that
Speaker 1: the fact that they were saying me would make somebody go, oh,
Speaker 1: that sounds I would never have heard that. But I
Speaker 1: didn't write No Scrubs, so it's hard to imagine. If
Speaker 1: if I had written it, maybe I would say that's
Speaker 1: on my song. I don't it doesn't. I don't feel
Speaker 1: that now when you play them like that. If I was,
Speaker 1: if I was, you know, just like in a jury
Speaker 1: or however they do it, I would probably say I
Speaker 1: see the connection there. But as a songwriter, because we
Speaker 1: are all rewriting and influenced and hearing things. It would
Speaker 1: be hard for me as a songwriter to say that
Speaker 1: those writers should be on that song. That one's tough
Speaker 1: for me, it is. And if it's going, hey jump
Speaker 1: on as a songwriter. Maybe he doesn't want to deal
Speaker 1: with it. Maybe think it's too close. It's happened to
Speaker 1: him a couple of times. And even with See and
Speaker 1: See on that song too. You know, see it has
Speaker 1: a song and it sounds like that at the beginning
Speaker 1: and some other Yeah. So I mean, why do you
Speaker 1: where does it stop? I mean, either, I don't know
Speaker 1: why it's happened so much lately. I mean, it seems
Speaker 1: like it started with blurred lines. And here's this, here's
Speaker 1: the two, here's Robin Thick blurred lines, by the way,
Speaker 1: and they actually went to court and lost this case.
Speaker 1: And so here's Marvin Gaye. Gotta give it to you.
Speaker 1: I mean, for sure this one. You don't hear this one? No,
Speaker 1: I do. I do know. The thing about that I
Speaker 1: was My expression was they I cannot imagine that those
Speaker 1: guys when they wrote it, and that when they made
Speaker 1: that track, that they what they were thinking was theoretically
Speaker 1: I mean you said theory, they were thinking, our melody
Speaker 1: and our phrasing is different, but the track it sounds
Speaker 1: so similar. So you have to think of like the
Speaker 1: average listener's ear, does this hearken to that? Does this
Speaker 1: make you think of that? It was certainly influenced by it.
Speaker 1: It's so hard because I mean, we I would. I
Speaker 1: think it's a pretty safe pet to say. I can't
Speaker 1: speak for every songwriter, but most of the circle I
Speaker 1: run with we drive to work every morning and come
Speaker 1: in and go, oh my god, I just heard this
Speaker 1: song like I want to write a feel like that.
Speaker 1: You know, usually by the end of the day you
Speaker 1: can hardly hear where we started. But we were still
Speaker 1: influenced by I mean, it's it's impossible to sort of
Speaker 1: pinpoint where it all started. And I really feel bad
Speaker 1: for the for ed shearing that this continues to happen
Speaker 1: in situation. Now. The other one of his uh, the
Speaker 1: the big song was it thinking out Loud? That song
Speaker 1: sounded very similar to the other song, and I didn't
Speaker 1: I didn't actually know the other song, but I heard
Speaker 1: him side by side. Yeah, And that guy was from
Speaker 1: like a like idol, like um British ide or whatever
Speaker 1: it's called, you know, and even that and I'll play
Speaker 1: it this so I'm gonna pull up and it's close.
Speaker 1: But even when you know tr Thomas did Die Happy Man,
Speaker 1: that sounded. I told Tomas first time I heard, I
Speaker 1: was like, are you like anything with ed like it?
Speaker 1: And he was like, no, not yet, And I guess
Speaker 1: nothing ever happened. It's the production on Die Happy Man
Speaker 1: that kind of makes you think of that, which in
Speaker 1: is where does it lie? Is it the sound of
Speaker 1: the musicians playing or is it the melody and the lyrics?
Speaker 1: And it's it's getting harder and harder to I mean
Speaker 1: for people to fight those things. What about this? And
Speaker 1: we don't want to. Songwriters, if some things you stole
Speaker 1: something from, Oh my god, I mean, if if someone
Speaker 1: has you know, would ever say to me, I think
Speaker 1: you got that from my song, especially if we were friends,
Speaker 1: I would know they really felt that way. Songwriters don't
Speaker 1: just cry wolf. I mean most of the time they're
Speaker 1: not just out there trying to, you know, get on
Speaker 1: a song. The ones I know, and if they bring
Speaker 1: it up, it would be it would be very hurtful
Speaker 1: because you would think, oh, I would never want you
Speaker 1: to think that I stole that from you. You know,
Speaker 1: I haven't had that happen to me. I mean I've
Speaker 1: had friends where we've discussed. I'll be like I was
Speaker 1: sort of like, you know, in a joking way, like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's kind of like the one that we wrote that
Speaker 1: was never a hit and now it's a hit for you. Um.
Speaker 1: But that's in the very close circle where we write
Speaker 1: so many songs, you know that sometimes topics crossed some things.
Speaker 1: This one here Smith and you know the song that
Speaker 1: the Won't Back Down And now Tom Petty's a writer
Speaker 1: on the Sam Smith song. I would never have noticed it,
Speaker 1: but the melody is exactly the same. The weird thing
Speaker 1: about this one the first time I heard it, I
Speaker 1: heard it I was listening to Lightning One and they
Speaker 1: were playing Sam Smith and I was like, this sounds
Speaker 1: like R and B Tom Petty. Wow. And I didn't
Speaker 1: hear until this pointed out, and I was like, well
Speaker 1: it is. I mean you count the notes they used
Speaker 1: to say it was like seven notes or something. That's
Speaker 1: clearly not the rule anymore it can be. Do you
Speaker 1: feel like this came from this? I mean, I think
Speaker 1: there's actually I think I shouldn't be talking leally because
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I just remember thinking that used
Speaker 1: to be a seven note rule or something like. I
Speaker 1: think this sample rule also used to be that too,
Speaker 1: like if you would sample, you don't have to pay
Speaker 1: for it at like seven notes. So that's that's why quick,
Speaker 1: you know. Again, so uh, there are a lot of those.
Speaker 1: And I wondered how you felt, because again, I feel
Speaker 1: bad for everybody involved, because I hate for somebody on
Speaker 1: one side, like No Scrubs, for those folks to think
Speaker 1: that he stole from them, but God to get that
Speaker 1: call and then to hear him side by side and go, wow,
Speaker 1: I guess you can sort of you can hear it,
Speaker 1: but the production is so different. The way we make
Speaker 1: records is so different than when No Scrubs, you know,
Speaker 1: so the sound is just different. But you you lay
Speaker 1: them out, I mean there is I can see where
Speaker 1: somebody would hear it. I wouldn't have heard it for me,
Speaker 1: and I am, by no means a real life songwriter,
Speaker 1: but every butting a kids album and did you never
Speaker 1: write comedy songs? I have to have writers insurance. Okay,
Speaker 1: someone sees me, I can only imagine. And this is
Speaker 1: mine's gonna be miniscule compared to what yours. Did you know,
Speaker 1: I don't really know what we pay. I know that
Speaker 1: we're covered in that way. Um, because certainly when you
Speaker 1: have this many songs floating around and and uh, it
Speaker 1: gets I have to be honest with you, Sonny. In
Speaker 1: country world, we kind of stay in our in our
Speaker 1: corner when we have things that start to cross over.
Speaker 1: Is when I started, like the the new Sam single
Speaker 1: body like a back road. Uh. I've heard a couple
Speaker 1: of different people say it reminded them of songs and
Speaker 1: I can't even tell you which one is. Different ones.
Speaker 1: Oh it makes me think of this, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh God, that song is getting is looking to sort
Speaker 1: of make the crossover push. Like that's when I would
Speaker 1: be afraid of it. When it has that sort of
Speaker 1: attention on it. Well, more ears bring more thoughts, exactly.
Speaker 1: And so when it goes from forty million people hearing
Speaker 1: it to five million people hearing it and somebody yeah exactly.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about you for a second, and let's
Speaker 1: bounce around a little bit. First of all, because you
Speaker 1: grew up in Texas and you went to ut Yeah
Speaker 1: and so and you wanted to be like, like an
Speaker 1: accountant or a financial guy. Went, I went. I was
Speaker 1: in accounting. I was weirdly really good at math. That
Speaker 1: was one of the only natural things to me in
Speaker 1: school and uh, which did kind of show up in
Speaker 1: my songwriting. It a lot of people don't have. I
Speaker 1: don't see songwriting that way. It's it is nu merit
Speaker 1: to me. When I look at lyrics on a page,
Speaker 1: seeing the way the lines lay out looks mathematical, almost
Speaker 1: like a graph, like, oh, that verse doesn't match the
Speaker 1: second verse. And that's not how most people right. And
Speaker 1: I've gotten I've tried to get away from it because
Speaker 1: there is a more train of thought way of writing now. Um.
Speaker 1: But with that said, I like, you know, you take
Speaker 1: your S A T S and they can separate different
Speaker 1: parts that I did very good enough in math to
Speaker 1: be in the School of Business at ut which is
Speaker 1: harder to get into once you've been there a couple
Speaker 1: of years. So they suggested, since my scores were high enough,
Speaker 1: go ahead and started in the School of Business. So
Speaker 1: I was an accounting major, But I mean in my
Speaker 1: first year I didn't really get that deep into it.
Speaker 1: He's super good student. I was in high school, like
Speaker 1: you're I'm a competitive person. I think it had to
Speaker 1: do with more wanting to for people to like me,
Speaker 1: wanting to be the best at stuff where you super
Speaker 1: gifted or super hard workers. Hard worker really so okay,
Speaker 1: so you go how on the because I imagine you
Speaker 1: could sing while you're doing this, because you're an artist.
Speaker 1: So are you singing in Texas? Yeah, I was about twelve,
Speaker 1: I did. I got on stage the first time in
Speaker 1: just saying it like a you know, local contest at
Speaker 1: the mall. What that turned into was sort of a
Speaker 1: weekend gig of of um going around two in Texas
Speaker 1: and Oklahoma. In Arkansas there's sort of an opera circuit.
Speaker 1: I don't even really know if this is still something
Speaker 1: that goes on, But when I was a kid, there
Speaker 1: were places you could go and play with the band.
Speaker 1: There these operys and reviews. There was this one in
Speaker 1: uh Great Contextas where it was like Lean Wimack, Steve Holly, myself,
Speaker 1: Lee and Rhymes grew up on that show was the
Speaker 1: Johnny High Country Music Review. A lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of Nashville talent has come from there. So that's what
Speaker 1: I would do on the weekends. And uh and that
Speaker 1: got you know, and then I was on Star Search
Speaker 1: and I moved to Branson for a while. I can't
Speaker 1: skip over star starts like that. You can't so bad.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you do not have a way to
Speaker 1: show that clip. Well, it's just you have to meet
Speaker 1: ebit man. Yes, like if for those if you're listening
Speaker 1: and then you're under twenty five, you don't even know.
Speaker 1: But Ed McMahon was. He was like to do that
Speaker 1: was the coolest thing about doing it. It was American,
Speaker 1: Adam before it was American right exactly. So you went
Speaker 1: on Star Search at what age I was and what
Speaker 1: did you say? I saying sometimes when we touch, sometimes
Speaker 1: when we touched, very serious. I wore the most stars
Speaker 1: that you got to in three quarters. I did not
Speaker 1: do well. And I was against this, literally a fourteen
Speaker 1: year old Whitney Houston. I swear I saw her in
Speaker 1: rehearsal and I was like, what am I doing here?
Speaker 1: I was just this country kid tried and I tried
Speaker 1: to like jazz it up because I was against her
Speaker 1: and I saw what she did and I tried to
Speaker 1: do things that vocally we're not really in my you
Speaker 1: know element and uh, I learned a lot I got.
Speaker 1: I was really hurt by that. It's funny, it sounds
Speaker 1: you know, my my childhood was a little bizarre. My
Speaker 1: um my parents divorced when I was twelve. My dad
Speaker 1: actually went to to prison. Um, and I just was
Speaker 1: kind of a lost kid, really trying to hold it
Speaker 1: together in a way that the Star Search. I pinned
Speaker 1: a lot of my hopes and dreams on that, um
Speaker 1: if that makes any sense, Like I I was like,
Speaker 1: if I can win this, something will happen for me
Speaker 1: outside of this. So I took it very very seriously.
Speaker 1: And uh, it's it's funny. I have a hard time
Speaker 1: even now I'm forty two, it's still I just did
Speaker 1: this thing at the Hall of Fame where they showed
Speaker 1: all these clips of me growing up and stuff this
Speaker 1: Poets and Profit series, which was an honor. But they
Speaker 1: showed a clip of that that they asked if they could,
Speaker 1: and it was really hard for me. I mean, do
Speaker 1: you feel like you let your mom or absolutely? And
Speaker 1: I and look, I don't feel like that. Now. Look
Speaker 1: what I've my life has gotten into. But I think
Speaker 1: I think it's more about I look at that kid,
Speaker 1: and I just wish I could have talk to him
Speaker 1: so that he would just calm down, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: and I relate to you in the way of my parents.
Speaker 1: I don't know my real dad, you know, and um
Speaker 1: my mom's not alive anymore. But I kept from a
Speaker 1: broken home too, and I always felt a little bit
Speaker 1: like it was my fault. There was some kind of
Speaker 1: just if I would have just been better at something
Speaker 1: that maybe it wouldn't. And I think that's a common feeling.
Speaker 1: It doesn't really logically make sense when you're an adult
Speaker 1: and you look, You're like, why would that Why would
Speaker 1: it be your fault? But yeah, I mean that was
Speaker 1: sort of that that Star searchs thing, weirdly is a
Speaker 1: great symbol of what it marked something for me, you know. Also,
Speaker 1: I was, look, I didn't even know this myself, and
Speaker 1: and not to make it about this, but I was
Speaker 1: really sort of a stranger in my own body because
Speaker 1: I was gay and I didn't know, but sort of
Speaker 1: you're mixed up and I'm growing up in the small
Speaker 1: town in Texas where everything is football and and you know, testosterone,
Speaker 1: and like I'm singing, I just thought I would go
Speaker 1: on Star Search and like show everybody at fifteen in
Speaker 1: Texas where you openly gay to anyone. No, not even
Speaker 1: to me. I mean my I had a girlfriend through
Speaker 1: college and and uh, I don't even think I was lying.
Speaker 1: And a lot of times people will be like, how
Speaker 1: could you have lied? I think I just had no exposure.
Speaker 1: I just felt out of place. When did you finally
Speaker 1: feel in place? I don't know. I mean I think
Speaker 1: I still struggle with that. It's funny. I was just
Speaker 1: I was just saying this to someone the other day,
Speaker 1: a young artist. I said, you know, I thought when
Speaker 1: I had kids that somehow something would click and make
Speaker 1: me a grown up, that I wouldn't still be scared
Speaker 1: of the same things, or because you can't your parents
Speaker 1: kind of have to fake it or or adults. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm still I still have the same insecurity, same fears.
Speaker 1: But I do feel really loved in this community. Um,
Speaker 1: I feel really respected. And so I don't know if
Speaker 1: it if you as if a creative person ever feels
Speaker 1: like they completely fit. I think that's that's what drives us.
Speaker 1: That's why you keep creating, because you feel like you
Speaker 1: have to keep creating so you can create whatever the
Speaker 1: full is and you never achieved the search exactly. You're
Speaker 1: always on the search. But I will say that that
Speaker 1: this success, in this sort of acceptance by the the
Speaker 1: songwriting community in Nashville, it does that is a little
Speaker 1: part of my heart that's a little more, a little
Speaker 1: more together. I mean that sounds dramatic, but uh, if
Speaker 1: it's true, if it's a real feeling you have, then
Speaker 1: it's you. I don't need some of them. I mean
Speaker 1: saying this. I haven't ever said it that way when
Speaker 1: you said when did you fit? And I guess I don't.
Speaker 1: I I don't, but I but in most people I
Speaker 1: know probably don't. But there are moments of where people
Speaker 1: doing things like this, I mean, getting to see it
Speaker 1: all together here, the fact that you want to talk
Speaker 1: to me, it it is validating and it does feel
Speaker 1: like I did something. How do you feel about because
Speaker 1: the country music genre gets this reputation as being southern male,
Speaker 1: gotta be straight. Here, you are a gay man super
Speaker 1: successful in country music. But I don't feel what everyone
Speaker 1: else says we're supposed to be. It isn't like I
Speaker 1: don't feel what everyone says you have. It's funny because
Speaker 1: a few years ago, when I was first having a
Speaker 1: big run um. This guy came to do a story
Speaker 1: on me from the New York Times and the angle
Speaker 1: was gay in country music. What that must be like,
Speaker 1: Like that You're going in with all these you know, redneck,
Speaker 1: straight masculine men and writing these songs. They must it
Speaker 1: must be hard to even get in the rooms with
Speaker 1: those guys or and I said, you know, it just
Speaker 1: has not. I have not had that experience. I think
Speaker 1: that there are so many great songwriters and you just
Speaker 1: have to be so much better than everybody else to
Speaker 1: in any capacity. It doesn't matter if you used to
Speaker 1: have a record deal, or if you're gay, or if
Speaker 1: everybody has a reason why it's not gonna work for him.
Speaker 1: And you know, a lot of times gay songwriters will
Speaker 1: come up to me at the Bluebird or whatever and say, oh,
Speaker 1: you've just been so inspiring to me. Like what would
Speaker 1: you say to a gay songwriter? And I'll say, just
Speaker 1: write the best songs. I mean, that's that really sounds simple.
Speaker 1: But I would love to have used it, and maybe
Speaker 1: sometimes I have used it as a reason, you know,
Speaker 1: for like not getting something. But the reality is I've
Speaker 1: never been treated in a negative way. If anything, I
Speaker 1: think it's been the opposite as you look back and man,
Speaker 1: we have a lot, have a lot. Uh here, Before
Speaker 1: I do this, let me talk about what's what's our
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Speaker 1: podcast for my house is that my bed, my sleep
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Speaker 1: into the store and you feel how I sleep number
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Speaker 1: a thirty in my sleep by you last night. I
Speaker 1: didn't get a lot of sleep last night, be honest
Speaker 1: with you, because I was just out gone late. So
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie. I don't even know what it was.
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Speaker 1: Eight hundred next bed. And that's about sleep number. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're back, and so as you look, I have so
Speaker 1: many clips here and you're you're so accomplished at your age.
Speaker 1: Let's start with Kenny Chetney because it seem okay, um,
Speaker 1: let's start with that. So how did the Kenny you
Speaker 1: getting into the Kenny camp? Well, what's weird is that
Speaker 1: I so, I had a record deal in the nineties.
Speaker 1: I moved to Nashville in nine four five, and uh
Speaker 1: I had a record deal and was I was managed
Speaker 1: by the same folks that manage Kenny. Still to this
Speaker 1: day they still man No, Buffy Is works on that team. Yes,
Speaker 1: but Clint Higham, who manages Kenny, managed me, and um,
Speaker 1: so I got to this is in the nineties. I mean,
Speaker 1: he wasn't what he is now. He was still he
Speaker 1: was playing like three thousand seat venues and I went
Speaker 1: on the road with him, but we didn't really know
Speaker 1: each other. We sang it like a wedding together, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, like we would cross paths. So
Speaker 1: then jump to uh, two thousand nine. At that point,
Speaker 1: I had moved to l A. I'm moved back. I'm
Speaker 1: still great friends with his manager, but I mean were
Speaker 1: very close. And um, I had this song and that
Speaker 1: I had written, still living in l A. But back
Speaker 1: and forth to Nashville, and I sent it to him
Speaker 1: and he loved it, and he was like, you know,
Speaker 1: my friend. He was like, I want to send this
Speaker 1: to Kenny. He tried, it didn't really get there. I
Speaker 1: had a friend, Robin Palmer, who still works with me now,
Speaker 1: who's pitching songs. She pitched it every which way and
Speaker 1: just couldn't get it through. And finally he did hear
Speaker 1: the song. He did not know I wrote it or
Speaker 1: connect me from ten years prior. But what happened was
Speaker 1: when he recorded the song, he then reached out and
Speaker 1: started listening to so much more of myself was the
Speaker 1: first song you're talking about Somewhere with You on the
Speaker 1: beach Down, just a monster song and if it's a
Speaker 1: turn for him. I mean, the thing was that the
Speaker 1: phrasing was strange in the in a way that this
Speaker 1: was very natural to me, the way the writing of this.
Speaker 1: So that is why so much happened so fast, because
Speaker 1: I had a lot of songs like this. So when
Speaker 1: you have a hit like this for someone that is
Speaker 1: kind of out of their comfort zone but makes them,
Speaker 1: it creates this comfort lane for them, and so they go, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm coming back to you because what you did is
Speaker 1: something that no one else has been able to do
Speaker 1: with me. So then what then, what do you do? Well?
Speaker 1: I would send him everything first and then um, and
Speaker 1: then in the in between, I'm starting to again some
Speaker 1: of the songs that were sort of cousins of Somewhere
Speaker 1: with You, like Alone with You, even the title. I
Speaker 1: had a few songs like that, uh, and Jacob and
Speaker 1: recorded that and that's the jam by the way, like
Speaker 1: that's that might be my favorite Jake song. It sounds
Speaker 1: so good on it and it sounds so good on
Speaker 1: the radio. So I had a run of a few
Speaker 1: things like that that got placed. Then he recorded come
Speaker 1: Over and um, that was the song that that I've
Speaker 1: written with Sam Hunt. One of the first things I
Speaker 1: wrote with Sam when I met him, and this to
Speaker 1: me come over was when the real downfall or not downfall,
Speaker 1: what like the when it started to just everybody was
Speaker 1: then it wasn't like a one hit thing. It was
Speaker 1: like everybody started coming to room. And I think it's
Speaker 1: because it you know, it does kind of when it
Speaker 1: happens twice like that. And uh so, yeah, this song,
Speaker 1: I feel like it was just as important to somewhere
Speaker 1: with you been in a different way because then we
Speaker 1: had done it twice. Um with Kenny in that lane,
Speaker 1: you know, something he hadn't done before it and Josh
Speaker 1: Osborne another another power hit it. Absolutely, So how do
Speaker 1: Sam at that point okay Sam as American knows and
Speaker 1: wasn't Sam at that point? How does Sam get in
Speaker 1: a room with you? And interesting that the connection Actually
Speaker 1: he was managed at that time by Clint Higham, who
Speaker 1: is the guy who manages Kenny, who managed me in
Speaker 1: the nineties, So he just had he had met Sam
Speaker 1: and and was working with him and said, I want
Speaker 1: you to to write with this kid, and and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, we just hit it off and we wrote
Speaker 1: a long time, and we wrote a lot of songs before. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: what sort of turned for Sam was when we wrote
Speaker 1: the song take Your tom which at this point now
Speaker 1: is five years old. Let's get there, ye let let's
Speaker 1: get there because we're gonna get all Listen, this is
Speaker 1: MCINALI drive here today. We're driving down at Kenny. I'll
Speaker 1: give you one more Kenny one here talking about this
Speaker 1: one so American Kids. I wrote with Luke Layard and
Speaker 1: Rodney Clawson and it was the first song the three
Speaker 1: of us had ever written together to the two of
Speaker 1: the biggest writers and you know the history of country
Speaker 1: music actually, and um, it's funny about this song is
Speaker 1: Josh and I Josh Osborne and I flew to St.
Speaker 1: John too write with Kenny with him coming back on
Speaker 1: the plane on that trip we wrote wild Child coming
Speaker 1: back right well the Himmgress, yeah, exactly. On the way
Speaker 1: back on the plane, Kenny said this was for the
Speaker 1: big revival record. He said, I have everything, but the
Speaker 1: first single. I just don't have it. And he's looking
Speaker 1: through emails while he's on his plane. I'm sitting next
Speaker 1: to him, and he said, here's an email you sent
Speaker 1: me three months ago. I never listened to it. At
Speaker 1: that time, a Little Big Town had just started to
Speaker 1: record this song that had laid down the initial tracks.
Speaker 1: I didn't say that the moment because I see his
Speaker 1: he's like listening on his headphones literally next to me,
Speaker 1: and he looks at me before I mean, thirty seconds
Speaker 1: in he was like, this is the song, this is
Speaker 1: the one, and I didn't It was awful. It was
Speaker 1: that's the worst of that sort of thing that's happened.
Speaker 1: Because I didn't say in that moment because I didn't
Speaker 1: know what to do. I didn't say, well, it's on
Speaker 1: hold and let me check with them. I just sat there, like,
Speaker 1: what did you say? Like, what what did you say?
Speaker 1: In that moment? I didn't say anything. I was like, awesome,
Speaker 1: glad you like and I wish you had opened it
Speaker 1: when I sent it to you. Um. But then we
Speaker 1: got back and I called Clint and I said, oh
Speaker 1: my god, like Kenny said he loves this song and
Speaker 1: you know, and uh, I called Little Big Towns manager
Speaker 1: is also on our good friends and it was not
Speaker 1: correct at first it was and it was not a
Speaker 1: great conversation. It was he said, well, you know, this
Speaker 1: isn't it's not professional for YouTube. They have the song,
Speaker 1: they should get to try it, and I said, no, no,
Speaker 1: I know, I don't know what to do. So uh,
Speaker 1: Basically what happened was that eventually Clint did talk to
Speaker 1: Kenny about it, and Kenny said, here's the thing. I
Speaker 1: this is my first single from this record. At that point,
Speaker 1: he hadn't he had taken two years off. Uh, he
Speaker 1: had put out like a beach record. You know, it
Speaker 1: does that everyone in a while, so this was a
Speaker 1: big thing for him. He said, this is gonna be
Speaker 1: my first single. Let's find if a little big town
Speaker 1: is that invested in it, if they feel like it's
Speaker 1: that sort of record for them, then we'll back off.
Speaker 1: But let them know that's where I'm at. This is
Speaker 1: not a record cut. And luckily they were not. They
Speaker 1: weren't far enough along at that point, and they said,
Speaker 1: you know, if Kenny is gonna say that's his first
Speaker 1: single from his record, then we can't hold you back
Speaker 1: because we don't know where we're being gonna be. So
Speaker 1: that's what happened. So is it ever Let's say, okay,
Speaker 1: so let's say that call happens, and I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: hypothetically throw this out there. So Kenny calls a little
Speaker 1: big town. He goes, hey, I'd like to have this.
Speaker 1: So does he owe a little big town one later
Speaker 1: down the road if I mean, I think that's more personal. Yeah, like,
Speaker 1: And the truth is what happened with that whole run,
Speaker 1: which is really interesting, is that on the whole cycle
Speaker 1: of you know you have a big hit, that was
Speaker 1: a big that was a big song for Kenny Um.
Speaker 1: At the same on the same cycle they had Girl Crush,
Speaker 1: and so I think they got over it pretty fast. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that probably we were nominated at every awards show against
Speaker 1: Girl Crush with American Kids. I mean, of course Girl
Speaker 1: Crush was you know, a steamroller and and I could
Speaker 1: say that it's the best song of the century. I
Speaker 1: mean I worshiped that song, you know. Um. So it's
Speaker 1: certainly in the end, not that you couldn't they couldn't
Speaker 1: have had both, but you know, it's just funny the
Speaker 1: way that that worked out. You mentioned Sam, and which
Speaker 1: song did you mentioned from Sam? Take Your Time, No Steel, Freedom,
Speaker 1: I Don't Change. This wasn't his first single, so we
Speaker 1: actually wrote the first single after that song. But that
Speaker 1: song was when something happened where it was like, this
Speaker 1: is a sound. It took five years of him being
Speaker 1: in town writing. He had a lot of hits on
Speaker 1: other people, but it was just that that phrasing in
Speaker 1: the beginning, the talking it. For some reason he could
Speaker 1: do it, and we felt it in the room, Josh
Speaker 1: and I. When Sam was doing it, it was like,
Speaker 1: this doesn't feel goofy, but if joshua I tried to
Speaker 1: sing it, it would be hilarious. And Josh does sing
Speaker 1: it in rounds and I think it's a mistake, but
Speaker 1: I always joke when he starts it always go I
Speaker 1: don't know if you're looking at me. It makes me laugh.
Speaker 1: Sam says it and it sounds perfect, and it's it's
Speaker 1: that sort of lane when someone finds that lane that
Speaker 1: nobody else can sing these songs. You know, no people
Speaker 1: could say that could cut take your time, but it
Speaker 1: wouldn't be the same. And that was when the spark
Speaker 1: happened of how a record should be made on Sam, like,
Speaker 1: what's the sound whatever that is that Sam hunt And
Speaker 1: so even though we knew you couldn't lead with that,
Speaker 1: because it was the little shocking uh, we felt like
Speaker 1: that was the pinnacle of what and it and it
Speaker 1: proved to be true. Usually these things don't that out
Speaker 1: like that with him, it did. And so you lead
Speaker 1: with if I'm remembering my Sam chronic because because we
Speaker 1: would have Samon earlier, I thought it thought he was
Speaker 1: so like crazy weirdly awesome. And it was like, hey, guy,
Speaker 1: I don't even really know you. And you played the
Speaker 1: hard you know, he played David Busters, and we were like, dude,
Speaker 1: come on the show because you just played David Busters
Speaker 1: and that's really unique and I need to hear it.
Speaker 1: And he would come in and play anybody like And
Speaker 1: I remember being shocked when he played it live because
Speaker 1: I was like, like, I thought he was talking to
Speaker 1: me when the first almost are you talking to me?
Speaker 1: Are you? But it was so different where you're like, huh,
Speaker 1: it's hard to cut not just music, anything creative. It
Speaker 1: is hard to have something that cuts through a period
Speaker 1: in a world of a million lights, it's hard for
Speaker 1: your one little to shine. And that was a light
Speaker 1: that just shined. Well that was this, I mean, that
Speaker 1: is what Take your Time did and and we we're
Speaker 1: very lucky that we also then went on to write
Speaker 1: The Night on He Had, which came out before you
Speaker 1: wrote it in the opposite order. But Leave the Night
Speaker 1: I came later. Yeah, I was the first single, but
Speaker 1: you wrote it later. That's right. Wow, that's interesting. And
Speaker 1: this is a more digestible first almost it could almost
Speaker 1: blend with some other things someone else could have cut. It.
Speaker 1: Just got him enough attention so that then he could
Speaker 1: come and take your time. So leave the Night on,
Speaker 1: take your time? Um. Break Up in a Small Town? Yeah,
Speaker 1: where this fall in the nick? It was written after
Speaker 1: those two songs. Um. It was probably one of the
Speaker 1: last things written for Monta Vallo and uh, he had
Speaker 1: the whole chorus written. He sat down with Zach Crowl
Speaker 1: and I and he's sang that the whole chorus, and
Speaker 1: I thought it sounded so country, the whole hook of
Speaker 1: break Up in a Small Town. Um. I had no
Speaker 1: idea that what we would end up writing was the
Speaker 1: most left thing on the record around that but just
Speaker 1: on acoustic guitar or that you get there. I can't
Speaker 1: even attempt to sing right now, but but you know
Speaker 1: that melody was just a great country and then you
Speaker 1: gotta move or move on. I just thought this, this
Speaker 1: is so, this is such a great story. I've never
Speaker 1: heard it, and it's it's funny how you said, how
Speaker 1: one artist can take it and do something. For example,
Speaker 1: and Sam did I met a girl and on the mixtape,
Speaker 1: so that's where I knew I met a girl from girl.
Speaker 1: She made me smile, she made me wait. And then well, y'all,
Speaker 1: Michael Morgan does it, I met a girl. You can't
Speaker 1: sound any country, right, I mean that's you know what
Speaker 1: you get this and that I've heard you say things
Speaker 1: like this that at the end of the day, this
Speaker 1: song would it. It said something a little bit different,
Speaker 1: but it said something somebody's felt. And I do think
Speaker 1: that that that's the bottom line of great songs. You know,
Speaker 1: Sam did it the way he would do it, and uh,
Speaker 1: this one here though, it's this one here is just
Speaker 1: a game changer. It's as a game change. Even I
Speaker 1: cannot believe what is happening with the song. I was
Speaker 1: talking on the radio about it and I was like, hey, listen,
Speaker 1: you know, and just full disclosure here, Sam and are
Speaker 1: managed by the same people, like we have the same
Speaker 1: umbrel and so and I was like, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't think that for Sam, it's like the number one
Speaker 1: priorty to cross over all the time. He definitely doesn't.
Speaker 1: He definitely does not set out to do that. But
Speaker 1: what I said was, you almost can't control this. It's
Speaker 1: gonna get so big that you can find it. Or
Speaker 1: you can say, you know, I don't care, or I'm
Speaker 1: in different or I this is the song that Okay,
Speaker 1: good luck trying to hold it back. I have to
Speaker 1: say this song had many forms. Sam Is those verses
Speaker 1: that seems so simple got from the South Side. There
Speaker 1: are probably forty versions of it. He knew the way,
Speaker 1: the playfulness that had to be there to set up
Speaker 1: a hook like that, you know what I mean? He
Speaker 1: just knew, and we we worked on it. By far,
Speaker 1: this is the most we've ever worked on a song,
Speaker 1: and it sounds the simplest myth. I mean, you just
Speaker 1: you're just not gonna be able to hold down. Not
Speaker 1: that you'd want to, but if you wanted to know,
Speaker 1: I'm with you. I mean, listen, I hear that one
Speaker 1: as a fan. It comes on and I'm just the
Speaker 1: process of writing that song was was so sort of tangled.
Speaker 1: You would not believe how simple. You can't imagine that
Speaker 1: a simple song that came out of it. I hear
Speaker 1: it and I don't really remember the process. I hear
Speaker 1: it as a fan. I'm like that happens sometimes where
Speaker 1: you hear and you're like, I just love this song.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm so glad that I'm a writer on it,
Speaker 1: But I really don't even remember that part of it
Speaker 1: because there's so many versions of it. The weird thing too,
Speaker 1: And it's tough because again, I worked. I was born
Speaker 1: and raised in Arkansas, so I grew up on even
Speaker 1: older country than I was supposed to listen to because
Speaker 1: my grandma, my grandma raised me to adopt me for
Speaker 1: a while when I was a kid, and so for me,
Speaker 1: it was the I got another really old stuff before
Speaker 1: I got to know the McGraw and the Guards stuff,
Speaker 1: which but then you know, I was an alternative nut
Speaker 1: and the night I was a grunge kin in the
Speaker 1: nineties and I loved hip hop, and so for me,
Speaker 1: I've been able to work all these formats just because
Speaker 1: I love music, just straight up. I just love music.
Speaker 1: And when I was at pop and I was doing
Speaker 1: I spent ten years like building a syndication company at pop,
Speaker 1: and the only real artist that would crossover were for
Speaker 1: the most part, female ish driven Taylor's Lady A. Because
Speaker 1: Hillary was the lead, you wouldn't have a lot of
Speaker 1: male crossover vocally, I I understand that, and even Rascal
Speaker 1: Flats they don't sound super masculine because Gary's voice is
Speaker 1: a high voice, and so this is gonna be one
Speaker 1: of those songs. It's an interesting thing. You just nailed it.
Speaker 1: I mean, he he sounds very masculine. He sounds I
Speaker 1: don't know if you just cannot put your finger on
Speaker 1: those things. Like he just has something that appeals and
Speaker 1: you know, like when he talks and people say, oh
Speaker 1: you like, can you really sing? The tone of his
Speaker 1: voice on a microphone? Is you know, there's luck to
Speaker 1: John Mayer's like the people that Adele has that it's
Speaker 1: it's yes, they're great singers, but there's something in the
Speaker 1: tone of their voice that is so distinct and so warm.
Speaker 1: You just said, I mean that that that word. It
Speaker 1: feels like they're talking to you. It's warm. And that's
Speaker 1: why it's gonna be able to cross over is because
Speaker 1: popped a very female format and they don't. They're not
Speaker 1: going to take a lot of those super masculine countries
Speaker 1: that is not And I actually think Honestly, we always
Speaker 1: joke about the way Sam looks, but the truth is
Speaker 1: that was a hurdle. It will be. It's a help
Speaker 1: now because people find him legit. But in the beginning,
Speaker 1: the way he looked, he had a moment of people
Speaker 1: taking him seriously. Well, because if you're really good looking,
Speaker 1: you expect things are given you and your a polished product.
Speaker 1: That's why. And that's really and that's not an unfair
Speaker 1: observation because most of the time when we see that
Speaker 1: inside of music, I do the same thing. Someone's beautiful,
Speaker 1: we go, okay, they're beautiful, but really work And it
Speaker 1: takes a minute to let so kin to say that's
Speaker 1: just part of him. I mean, that's just the way
Speaker 1: he looks, but it's it is no indication of how
Speaker 1: hard he's worked or or that he was meant to
Speaker 1: do this. You know. Let's move over to Casey Musgraves,
Speaker 1: who I've said a bunch of times like if I
Speaker 1: had to pick an artist like my favorite artist Casey
Speaker 1: and so I mean you worked with Casey a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she was a big part of me, not just being
Speaker 1: seen as enough that there's anything wrong with this, but
Speaker 1: I had ambitions to do more than just song right. Um.
Speaker 1: I wanted to be more involved in the development of
Speaker 1: the production of uh just. I wanted to be a
Speaker 1: part of an artist's career because my artist's career didn't
Speaker 1: work out, but I still had I don't know something
Speaker 1: about developing that color or you know, it's like a
Speaker 1: real lane. I would look back at the people I loved,
Speaker 1: like Dolly Parton, like Willie Nelson, and they were so distinct,
Speaker 1: you know, and the people around them. Usually it was
Speaker 1: a small group that sort of helped to develop. And
Speaker 1: Casey was a great vehicle in that way because she
Speaker 1: trusted me and Luke laired and we wrote a lot
Speaker 1: of songs together and started just doing demos in Luke
Speaker 1: studio and that's how same trailer started to be put together.
Speaker 1: Casey knew herself well enough that she didn't go looking
Speaker 1: for a big, hot producer at the time because Luke
Speaker 1: and I had not done anything. So she just looks like,
Speaker 1: this is the way it's supposed to sound. You know.
Speaker 1: This record was so good. I mean, it's still one
Speaker 1: of my favorite records period nine years. It's just a
Speaker 1: it's a ride. It's why we make records, you know.
Speaker 1: So with this song, and I can remember playing follow
Speaker 1: your Earrow every hour just because I remember. I remember
Speaker 1: when you played it, and I was some I was like,
Speaker 1: you know what, everybody just screw off. And I came
Speaker 1: into this running a little hot, and I know I
Speaker 1: was a little bull in the china shop, and but
Speaker 1: still I was just like, if we're really gonna get mad,
Speaker 1: let's get mad. It's until worth getting mad about. Because
Speaker 1: there were people that were upset of the song so
Speaker 1: and it's so funny. We that was so unintentional. I mean,
Speaker 1: given her personality, a lot of people think that was
Speaker 1: just so calculated, like I'm just gonna, you know, flip
Speaker 1: off the industry everybody. It was just it was so
Speaker 1: not without thought. We just never knew that was gonna
Speaker 1: do that. You know. It was so weird that people
Speaker 1: would be mad. I would and again I become a
Speaker 1: real dick about it because I was like, how are
Speaker 1: how are you gonna be mad about something like that
Speaker 1: went to number of which is it still pisses me off, dude.
Speaker 1: But you know, we also saw such a great there
Speaker 1: is a what a silver lining in that song that
Speaker 1: that the c m A named the Song of the
Speaker 1: year and shocked everybody in the room, including us. I
Speaker 1: mean we were so shocked by that. That was like
Speaker 1: one of the greatest moments to be truly truly like
Speaker 1: punched in the gut in a great way where you
Speaker 1: just had no idea. I mean I was looking at
Speaker 1: the whole row of songwriters, like nobody was worried about
Speaker 1: follow your arrow? What was it up against? Um? We automatic?
Speaker 1: Because that was the year. That's what I remember thinking
Speaker 1: the most, that like, yeah, um gosh, you know what,
Speaker 1: I get confused of what was where I don't remember
Speaker 1: they all started to blend. You're right about that. They
Speaker 1: all started fine, But yeah, that that was a that
Speaker 1: was a jam. I'm gonna play step off like this
Speaker 1: step off and I think this should have been a single.
Speaker 1: I think I think it might have. At the time
Speaker 1: that that change right there is so kind of bizarre,
Speaker 1: sort of circusy, and I kind of was under the end.
Speaker 1: I thought that I don't know that that would work.
Speaker 1: But looking back, I think if people had seen her
Speaker 1: as a bit more playful on that record, that maybe
Speaker 1: she would have had more commercial success. I don't jam,
Speaker 1: I love it. I want to run through some songs
Speaker 1: and Uh, let's just talk. We'll do like a quick
Speaker 1: fire and answer here. I'll play this one um Shane
Speaker 1: about Urban. By the way, I have a wall here
Speaker 1: and so on my wall when people come in. These
Speaker 1: are like the artists that I've like directly been involved,
Speaker 1: Like these are my people, and Urban's one of them.
Speaker 1: Maren obviously girl Crushed because I was a big controversy
Speaker 1: for me. I was on that train with you, by
Speaker 1: the way. I know we're not really talking about that now.
Speaker 1: We talked about everyone girl Crush was. I was literally
Speaker 1: not that, not that this should even make a difference.
Speaker 1: I was doing whatever I could. I was posting pictures
Speaker 1: of my kids and those girl Crush hats, and you
Speaker 1: know literally that I was that song. I called all
Speaker 1: three songwriters the day I heard it. I had never
Speaker 1: been so blown away by an idea, a cut, the
Speaker 1: sound of a vocal. That song is a perfect record.
Speaker 1: They were doing an album release party and I heard
Speaker 1: the night before the album came out, and and um
Speaker 1: day Drinking wasn't wasn't number one yet, but it was
Speaker 1: about to is that it was that weak And I
Speaker 1: heard this song and I'm like, I'm putting this on
Speaker 1: the radio the next day, and I put and I
Speaker 1: got in so much trouble, so much trouble, Shane that
Speaker 1: program directors were complaining to my bosses of my stations
Speaker 1: right because like, oh it's a lesbian song, okay, so
Speaker 1: so whatever, you know, it's all great, it's all so
Speaker 1: whatever song. I continue to play it, right, I continue
Speaker 1: to play it. And what happens is my company then
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, we have to see it. This is
Speaker 1: trouble because they then they reached my company since research
Speaker 1: on the show. You know, we're the big national show,
Speaker 1: and so they want to make sure and do research
Speaker 1: and see what people people are feeling. They have to
Speaker 1: test me talking about the song without my knowledge to
Speaker 1: see if people were getting upset about it, and they weren't.
Speaker 1: And my companies like, okay, well people aren't doing what
Speaker 1: every not every what A lot of program directors are
Speaker 1: complaining about it's not real. And then I have a
Speaker 1: and so I played it, played that played. It wasn't
Speaker 1: a single yet still had a friend of the Washington
Speaker 1: Post whatever whatever, it began, a controversy, whatever, whatever, next thing,
Speaker 1: you know, love it, like I was so happy for them.
Speaker 1: I was so I in my room. I don't keep
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff because then it just gets into it.
Speaker 1: But I have, you know, Liz and Hillary and Laurie
Speaker 1: did their handwrote the lyrics to Girl Crushing, wrote a
Speaker 1: note and have that frame. And that's so of all
Speaker 1: the things that I have, like that one's really important
Speaker 1: to me because again I'm just a fan of music
Speaker 1: and I just put on stuff I like. I gotta
Speaker 1: tell you something real funny about the domino effect of
Speaker 1: what happened with Girl Crust that affected me. This is
Speaker 1: so funny that we're sitting here talking about it. You
Speaker 1: don't even know some of the vibrations that are put
Speaker 1: out there. So when that record came out, I had
Speaker 1: a couple of songs on that record. One of them
Speaker 1: was um Quit breaking Up with Me was the first
Speaker 1: song on the record. It was in contention to the
Speaker 1: first single, really strange song wrote Natalie himby um and
Speaker 1: so it was going to be the second single, and
Speaker 1: then their plan was that Girl Crush would be third.
Speaker 1: But Girl Crush started having this life and the record
Speaker 1: came out and it started selling. So the reason this
Speaker 1: all these different things happened is I was actually in
Speaker 1: Texas with Casey. We were writing for pageant material, and
Speaker 1: Jason is her manager and Little Big Towns manager, and
Speaker 1: so Jason and Natalie and I are together in Texas
Speaker 1: and Jason calls and says, I gotta tell you guys something.
Speaker 1: We're gonna have to change the single to girl Crush
Speaker 1: because radio has you know, taken off and so we're
Speaker 1: not gonna go with quit breaking up with me. And
Speaker 1: so at the same time that this was happening, Miranda
Speaker 1: had recorded a song of Natalie and Eyes called Smoking
Speaker 1: and Drinking and they were going to put it out
Speaker 1: as her second single off the record, the record that
Speaker 1: was out at the time, and so Jason not meaning to,
Speaker 1: of course, but at the time, Girl Crush was gonna
Speaker 1: be a struggle. It was gonna be hard. This was
Speaker 1: not gonna be They knew they were in for a fight,
Speaker 1: so they asked Miranda to not put out Smoking and
Speaker 1: Drinking so that Little Big Town wouldn't be competing against themselves, right,
Speaker 1: So we ended up getting the fourth single off that
Speaker 1: record that did nothing. So we Natalie and I in
Speaker 1: one swoop of the strong handed girl Crush lost two
Speaker 1: singles I Cost You and U or I Cost You
Speaker 1: never actually told that story like that. But when you
Speaker 1: were saying that that that Natalie and I were both like, wow,
Speaker 1: this is happening. We were walking down this road in Texas.
Speaker 1: I'm not joking, this gravel road, and we were like
Speaker 1: working it out, walking like we just lost two singles
Speaker 1: in one swoop. And you know, at that time we
Speaker 1: didn't really know. We we were hopeful that those songs
Speaker 1: would both have a chance. Eventually the quick breaking up
Speaker 1: with me didn't. But it may be at Wilson Day,
Speaker 1: but smoking and drinking sort of got you know, we
Speaker 1: came after like Little Red Wagon that radio had already
Speaker 1: sort of you know, put the brakes on that record.
Speaker 1: So it's just funny at all. No, I'm not mad
Speaker 1: at you at all. He looked away when he said that.
Speaker 1: By the way, I'm a big body language reader. And
Speaker 1: when he said that, his eyes completely might you see
Speaker 1: him mind and they completely diverted. Um, what what what
Speaker 1: have here? Mike? I'll talk about Blue Apron for just
Speaker 1: one second, and Blue Apron comes to the house, actually
Speaker 1: comes to the door, and inside the box it's a
Speaker 1: lot of ingredients and not just random ingredients, but ingredients
Speaker 1: to make these awesome meals. There's a you can get
Speaker 1: into recipe every week. They put them up Blue Apron
Speaker 1: as a culinary team, and you can even check it.
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Speaker 1: per person per mell, Blue Apron delivered seasonal recipes along
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Speaker 1: a recipe card that comes with the two so step
Speaker 1: by step directions. Blue Apron. Just do this. Go to
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Speaker 1: all right, So we have some more songs here. Let's
Speaker 1: see how about man I love it when my friends
Speaker 1: like have great things right and these these my buds
Speaker 1: here stay a little long upper Brothers I was born.
Speaker 1: Oh god, this is this is one of those nice
Speaker 1: surprises I used to always talk about to Ashley Gourley
Speaker 1: because he would write these songs with these artists and
Speaker 1: then they would just after fifty weeks of being on
Speaker 1: the chart, they would go to number one, and I
Speaker 1: would say that never happens to me like that either
Speaker 1: die in the forties or they're on a big artist
Speaker 1: and you know they're going. And I love Brothers all more.
Speaker 1: I mean, two of the greatest guys. They're just root
Speaker 1: for them absolutely. And John and I are a lot
Speaker 1: closer than than t J. But as because Lucy and
Speaker 1: I are at John's wife. We're really regular good friends.
Speaker 1: But man, you talk about just the talented dudes, they're
Speaker 1: just and t J's voice, I think he's he's my favorite.
Speaker 1: I mean, I love his voice. And uh so, yeah,
Speaker 1: that one was that one was just one of those
Speaker 1: really fun ones because the fact when it started to
Speaker 1: catch and you started to see it happening, and it
Speaker 1: had been out for twenty weeks before it went top thirty,
Speaker 1: and then it started to catching like oh my god.
Speaker 1: And when that's the kind of stung that you knew
Speaker 1: if people heard it they would like it because it's
Speaker 1: just so They just sound so good. You know how
Speaker 1: this one here your wrote different for girls? Was this
Speaker 1: red is a duet? No, it was. Actually there were
Speaker 1: a huge contemplation of when we wrote it, if we
Speaker 1: put a girl singing the demo or a guy. I
Speaker 1: ended up singing the demo because we thought it was
Speaker 1: a little edgier for a guy to say. So, did
Speaker 1: you want a guy to sing it? When you all
Speaker 1: said down, if you wrote it, yeah, you did want it.
Speaker 1: I thought it would have more effect if a guy
Speaker 1: said it. I didn't think a guy would say it,
Speaker 1: but I thought it would be a better risk, you know,
Speaker 1: like a bigger payoff if a guy said it. If
Speaker 1: a girl says it, girls say that a lot, it
Speaker 1: sounds a little more like they're complaining something, yeah, and
Speaker 1: guy sounds like they're respecting. A lot of people had
Speaker 1: to have a problem with this song. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: when you live in the bubble of our I'm sure
Speaker 1: you get this. There are things that I read or
Speaker 1: go on boards and things and see people talking about songs.
Speaker 1: So I know things that the average person wouldn't notice
Speaker 1: about different for girls. But a lot of people thought,
Speaker 1: you know, that that that song was stereo typing girls,
Speaker 1: and girls would say, I'm I'm not like that. I
Speaker 1: don't you know, I'm not sitting crying in the corner.
Speaker 1: And the truth was, we didn't. We didn't think it
Speaker 1: was about every girl. We just thought in general, girls
Speaker 1: have a harder in some ways, they have it easier
Speaker 1: because they are vulnerable and they will say the way
Speaker 1: they feel. We were really trying to shed a good
Speaker 1: light on that. You know. Anyway, how about this one?
Speaker 1: Couldn't you you smile a little more on this one? Yeah?
Speaker 1: This song? I wrote this with Matt Ramsey and Trevor
Speaker 1: Rosen from Old Dominion, who are two of my best friends,
Speaker 1: and it was it was the first time the three
Speaker 1: of us that had to hit together and we've written
Speaker 1: for years and uh, yeah, this song, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's just what's funny is the the idea And you
Speaker 1: can probably hear this in hearing it. I wrote this
Speaker 1: and stay a little longer, very close in time together
Speaker 1: and uh, the initial idea they on my like pad
Speaker 1: of paper in my phone where I put notes. They're
Speaker 1: in the same uh the say you do goes into
Speaker 1: a thing about one thing leads to another, leads to
Speaker 1: another leadst or another. They ended up being two songs
Speaker 1: that they kind of you know, they're kind of cousins.
Speaker 1: You do that a lot. You just take your phone
Speaker 1: and go, oh, this could be something. Jot down, because
Speaker 1: I do that with stand up and go there's a
Speaker 1: concept right down because I don't forget it, and you
Speaker 1: know you will and then I'll come back to it later.
Speaker 1: So is that the same thing as you do with
Speaker 1: a songwriter. Yes. And the most annoying part for me
Speaker 1: is that my my most creative moment is right before
Speaker 1: I fall asleep. I don't know if you have that.
Speaker 1: It's sort of like like you ever wake up, I'm
Speaker 1: asleep and go, I gotta record this right now, and
Speaker 1: we don't want to like get up and go. Yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: so I do that. My phone is full of ideas
Speaker 1: and sayings and things people say a lot of times
Speaker 1: it's just I don't even know what it means. When
Speaker 1: I go back and read it, I have to put
Speaker 1: a note by it. It's all try to remember what
Speaker 1: I was thinking. I do that I'll wake up. Especially
Speaker 1: with the Radioto is different because it's we're talking about
Speaker 1: things happening in the world. I want to do stand up.
Speaker 1: Those are concept I as much like a song. So
Speaker 1: it's like I have a bad idea write down. But
Speaker 1: when I was writing the kids album, um I did
Speaker 1: a kids album and it was the number one kids Haplumen,
Speaker 1: which was crazy because what do I know. And so
Speaker 1: I wake up and I'm like, okay, and I recorded
Speaker 1: on my phone and it sounds like this, it goes
Speaker 1: I grow Up, and I was like, I called Deerk Passley.
Speaker 1: I said, dude, this is gonna be terrible. This is
Speaker 1: you're gonna I'm gonna send you this thing, but it's terrible.
Speaker 1: But I was asleep and I have this idea called
Speaker 1: when I grow Up and it's and so Eric and
Speaker 1: I and he brought Phil Barton over because Phil had
Speaker 1: written for Thomas Tank and he had done so we
Speaker 1: all sit around and wrote when I grow Up. But
Speaker 1: it started with the worst one am voice memo ever
Speaker 1: of me just going I want to be farming. And
Speaker 1: I was like, dude, it sounds like Bob Dylan is
Speaker 1: have drunk. But you know, with that to me, reads
Speaker 1: like I always say that songs are already written, like
Speaker 1: they're always say they're in the rocks and you have
Speaker 1: to chisel everything else out of the way. That's what
Speaker 1: it is. Those memos are. To me, it's almost like
Speaker 1: there's a blanket over the song and you it's like
Speaker 1: if you could just you know what I mean, and
Speaker 1: it sounds like you're like, I mean, you're kind of
Speaker 1: it's almost like somebody's covering up the clear thought because
Speaker 1: you have to go in there and find it. That's
Speaker 1: the weirdest thing, because songs float, I feel, I feel
Speaker 1: like they're like alive and they're like, you know, kind
Speaker 1: of floating around, just waiting for someone to reach up
Speaker 1: and grab them. That it's like people that have a
Speaker 1: sixth sense that can talk to people on the other side.
Speaker 1: Or I think that when you create and you have
Speaker 1: those kind of ideas, you have a sense of it's
Speaker 1: like part of the brain that you're not able to
Speaker 1: get to whenever you're all your senses are working, that
Speaker 1: when you shut down absolutely or or that that other
Speaker 1: part of your brain will say that's stupid, that's not
Speaker 1: a good idea. What song just fell out of you?
Speaker 1: It's like it shouldn't be this easy, like what song?
Speaker 1: And I don't look at it. I don't know, thinking
Speaker 1: of like I have them all. I got to be
Speaker 1: honest with you. Marry Go Around was written really fast, uh,
Speaker 1: because we had an idea. Actually, my mom said the line.
Speaker 1: She was talking about our neighbor, and she said it
Speaker 1: in front of Josh Osborne. Josh said, why are there
Speaker 1: so many cars at your neighbor's house? And my mom said,
Speaker 1: I don't know, Josh, they're selling Mary Kay or Mary
Speaker 1: Jane or something. And we laughed. But then Josh and
Speaker 1: I were in the car and we were driving out
Speaker 1: to the ranch where we were gonna beet Casey and
Speaker 1: I said, man, but all the all the things that
Speaker 1: are symbolized by the word Mary, from Mary Christmas to
Speaker 1: the Virgin Mary. You know, we always used the name
Speaker 1: Mary as a placeholder and Merry Go Round, and so
Speaker 1: we just listed all these things when we actually sat
Speaker 1: down to write it, and Casey was the one who
Speaker 1: heard it as a sad song. Um it did. I don't.
Speaker 1: I would say it took us less than two hours.
Speaker 1: Which song was like that there was a hit was
Speaker 1: like just you said you mentioned body like a background.
Speaker 1: That one, that's the one. It's the one that was
Speaker 1: like you just it took a long time. Well, it
Speaker 1: was because he had an idea that we just couldn't
Speaker 1: quite The way it sounds is exactly the way he
Speaker 1: always knew it was gonna sound, basically, but he couldn't.
Speaker 1: We were overwriting, overwriting, overwriting. You know, Josh and I
Speaker 1: and Zach did that track. It's unbelievable. Josh and I
Speaker 1: would just try to clever it to death. Body like
Speaker 1: a back road, like we were trying to make every
Speaker 1: metaphor for a woman's body and a back road, and
Speaker 1: all we ended up getting in there metaphorically was like, uh,
Speaker 1: with my eyes closed, driving with my eyes closed. I
Speaker 1: know every curve like the back of my hand. But
Speaker 1: beyond that it would get cheesy. But we still can't
Speaker 1: help but be songwriters and want to just make it
Speaker 1: just like, oh, we can just be so clever. Sam
Speaker 1: just kept editing those things out and saying, it's got
Speaker 1: to feel like a playful conversation. So I would say
Speaker 1: that was difficult because he he did most of the work,
Speaker 1: but time wise, I would I couldn't even tell you
Speaker 1: the number of hours spend on that song weeks. Where
Speaker 1: do you think you need to be in your life
Speaker 1: to write the best songs? Meaning what emotional state do
Speaker 1: you write the best songs in? I think for me, uh,
Speaker 1: it is it does happen when the collaboration is right,
Speaker 1: because I used to write songs by myself, but now
Speaker 1: I really don't. And if I'm sitting with someone and
Speaker 1: we have a real spiritual moment about something that either
Speaker 1: they're going through or I'm going through, that to me
Speaker 1: is when you can connect with something. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't think my best songs get recorded. Um. Uh. One
Speaker 1: of my best songs has been recorded, but it wasn't
Speaker 1: a single. My a song called come Back to Me
Speaker 1: that Keith Urban recorded and what had happened was, Um,
Speaker 1: my husband had said to me a few years ago,
Speaker 1: he made a comment that I had never heard anyone say.
Speaker 1: We were joking talking about someone else being good looking,
Speaker 1: and he said, well, if there was somebody else that
Speaker 1: would make you happier, And he wasn't being an ass,
Speaker 1: he said, I would want you to have everything that
Speaker 1: you ever wanted. I mean, that's that's how much I
Speaker 1: love you. I don't adhere to that I do not
Speaker 1: have that big of us. I'm not that spiritually evaulved
Speaker 1: But I was telling Brandy Clark and Trevor Rose in
Speaker 1: that story and they were like, wow, I mean, what
Speaker 1: a thing to say. So there we went and listed
Speaker 1: these things of like if there's dance floors you you
Speaker 1: ain't made a move on, you know, and if there's
Speaker 1: if there's some saying that you ain't wrote your name in,
Speaker 1: and uh, go and do everything because the line in
Speaker 1: the courses, um, I want to hold you, but I
Speaker 1: don't want to hold you back. And uh, you know
Speaker 1: it's not a it's not where radio is those kind
Speaker 1: of songs, but it is where my favorite moments are
Speaker 1: something like that. It was a real we just had
Speaker 1: a really cool day, Brandy and Trevor not talking about
Speaker 1: wouldn't it be nice to love like that where you
Speaker 1: really couldn't let someone go for their good? Um, I
Speaker 1: would hold on for dear life and you know, probably
Speaker 1: like stalk but um, but anyway that I don't you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know if that was a long winded answer
Speaker 1: to your question of when you're songs written, it's just
Speaker 1: a I think a lot of times is just the
Speaker 1: magic in the room. We'll talk about a couple of
Speaker 1: my favorite artists that I mean, listen, on the talent scale,
Speaker 1: a pretty far more talented than I am. We do
Speaker 1: have a lot of similar taste, though I can say
Speaker 1: we're similarly. We have a lot of I'm a humongous
Speaker 1: Walker Hayes fan and when he was just making his
Speaker 1: own stuff and would know, but I've just been a
Speaker 1: Walking Hates fan forever. And so he's the most unique
Speaker 1: and the most prolific songwriter I've ever known. I mean it.
Speaker 1: He just it's hard for me to even get in
Speaker 1: his brain because if that makes sense, because a lot
Speaker 1: of times you can collaborate with someone you want to
Speaker 1: see the world they do. He just sees with different
Speaker 1: He has like a different box of crayons. I've written
Speaker 1: with them, and it's it's it's like talking to someone
Speaker 1: who is in eleventh grade when you're on a eight
Speaker 1: you're doing an eighth grade textbook. Absolutely, and I find
Speaker 1: it I'll be honest with you, and he, I mean, he,
Speaker 1: he knows this. It's difficult. I find it hard because
Speaker 1: I often find myself my ego gets involved and I
Speaker 1: feel a little stupid because he he can trick out
Speaker 1: a line and add something that I just would have settled,
Speaker 1: and I don't. And I have a very high standard.
Speaker 1: I mean, I consider my bar to be pretty high.
Speaker 1: But but he just he just has something. I think
Speaker 1: that that box of crayons analogy. I've never said that,
Speaker 1: but that is that is what I think. He's just
Speaker 1: he has more crayons in his box than the rest
Speaker 1: of us. Yeah, a lot, a lot. And Walker is out,
Speaker 1: you know, and I get to watch him every night
Speaker 1: and he just gets better and better better. He's if
Speaker 1: as a performer, but it is a songwriter and just
Speaker 1: a word smith, if that's even a thing. And the
Speaker 1: song he wrote for you, we wrote a song called
Speaker 1: namastate Agether. Yes, I love it. It is. I mean
Speaker 1: the fact that, y'all even when I saw the title,
Speaker 1: of course, I can't be surprised by any title he
Speaker 1: sends me. Yeah. So, and then this was the two
Speaker 1: he was like, I said, hey, dude, we were going
Speaker 1: back and for texting before we were writing, and grab
Speaker 1: we're going with we have a different he's so whatever,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, hey, let's add some funny stuff like
Speaker 1: beat it like Jackson like and so we write it.
Speaker 1: And I said, hey, dude, if you want this song,
Speaker 1: you can have it, because if you don't, like I know,
Speaker 1: he wrote it for me, but if you don't, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna use it. I'm gonna cut it. But if you
Speaker 1: want it, you can have it. And he's like, man,
Speaker 1: you take it for now, but but we'll see. And
Speaker 1: I was like, let me know. And so it's I mean,
Speaker 1: your girlfriend does a lot of yoga. I've heard you talking.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she does, and that's where and I was
Speaker 1: able to yes, it's a very real song. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's the thing he can. People have not even heard this.
Speaker 1: There's a song that Walking and I wrote called Namas
Speaker 1: Day and it's about I started doing yoga my girlfriend
Speaker 1: does because she does yoga, and and it was like
Speaker 1: no mistay, but it's like no, I'm gonna stay, Like no,
Speaker 1: I'm going to stay. It was like a dope. It
Speaker 1: was like a walker Hayes brains like. So I was like,
Speaker 1: did he I was talking about doing yoga and I
Speaker 1: was like hey, and I said, like three ideas and
Speaker 1: he comes back with this and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: he was like, dude, let's do a Namasta song. And
Speaker 1: I'm like okay, and it wasn't now I'm gonna stay.
Speaker 1: First it was like it seems like that's where it
Speaker 1: would have started, but that's where it ended up. And
Speaker 1: that was him was like, why don't we turn this
Speaker 1: into NA must stay? And I'm like, okay, got it.
Speaker 1: And then we just we wrote an hour forty five minutes,
Speaker 1: like we sat down. He said, I mean it's so good,
Speaker 1: and it was, um, yeah, we And I told him
Speaker 1: we were out last weekend. I was like, dude, you
Speaker 1: should come in and at least partially produced a song
Speaker 1: like it's so like oh and he and he's so,
Speaker 1: I mean, he knows how to do that, you know.
Speaker 1: The thing that brought that up was what I was
Speaker 1: referring to was the song pain that he wrote about
Speaker 1: hearing his song on the radio. I was in my
Speaker 1: hometown in Minnerl's, Texas. I was there for actually high
Speaker 1: school teacher of mine was the like she was the
Speaker 1: coming home queen this year, like she's eighty years old
Speaker 1: and it was some anniversary and I went and walked
Speaker 1: her and I was there. So I'm at the gym
Speaker 1: in my hometown working out, and he sent that song
Speaker 1: to me pain. I was literally I was dumbfounded. I
Speaker 1: mean I wish I had it playing because it's not
Speaker 1: available in the gym. Yeah, I mean just the fact
Speaker 1: that he I mean they put it as an email
Speaker 1: and insid of a newsletter, and that second verse when
Speaker 1: he it's just it's it's really it's almost hard to
Speaker 1: listen to. It's that. That's right. That's how good it is.
Speaker 1: That it makes you name is perfect. If something can
Speaker 1: make you uncomfortable, if it's something can just make you
Speaker 1: feel again, it's that million lights And how do you
Speaker 1: get used to shine through? If something can just make
Speaker 1: you feel period something it just feels something exactly. And
Speaker 1: I'll play a little bit of pain here. And by
Speaker 1: the way, why I talk about Walker is Walker is
Speaker 1: now on Monument, which is part of a label. You
Speaker 1: have an imprint that you're running right right, So Walker
Speaker 1: president of Monument Records and Walker first I was Factory Speakers,
Speaker 1: and on me Bobby Bone played a song and I
Speaker 1: wrote about I got two songs on one. I was like,
Speaker 1: that's an odd version of pain, uh, for all our technologies.
Speaker 1: It mixed. Yeah, I played a little bit more of this.
Speaker 1: Here we go two thousand sixteen seven something in the morning.
Speaker 1: I was driving when a dream come true came through
Speaker 1: my high the factory speakers and on me Bobby Bones
Speaker 1: played a song and I wrote about lonely beer and
Speaker 1: a fresh it's one of my doctors. What you hear
Speaker 1: is how it felt. From the Broken in My Heart
Speaker 1: was about addiction, love, loss and recovery. Trust me when
Speaker 1: we wrote it, because I had to get it out
Speaker 1: of me for Nashville, not for readio from nobody bought me.
Speaker 1: And maybe that trouble so pressing rewind wrestling demons like
Speaker 1: mine looking for a company in this design that doesn't
Speaker 1: really feel so grand all the time. Even if my
Speaker 1: name wasn't in it, I would be like, no, I mean,
Speaker 1: I can't I it never does it make it's because
Speaker 1: it's so freaking you know. And I know his story
Speaker 1: and and and a note, and I know I've been
Speaker 1: down in those ways and the way the music businesses.
Speaker 1: You put everything into it and it doesn't mean you're
Speaker 1: gonna get anything out of it. And he and he
Speaker 1: came in and he talked about that he's been dropped
Speaker 1: and picked up, dropped and stuff, and he told a
Speaker 1: story and if you're just listening to this one. You
Speaker 1: have to listen to the Walker Hayes when I encourage
Speaker 1: you to, because he told the story of him and
Speaker 1: there's did you have what the wine with the Walker? Yes? Well,
Speaker 1: he's like I was playing a puckets and this kid
Speaker 1: that idolized me come up to me and he had
Speaker 1: to ask Walker to ask him for a job. I know,
Speaker 1: I hadn't heard that story until the y'all's uh Bobby,
Speaker 1: Bobby Castles, who's called it? But um, he also you
Speaker 1: said something in and I wanted to bring up to you.
Speaker 1: It's really really great. I loved it, you said, um,
Speaker 1: and you said it off the cuff. You may not
Speaker 1: even remember saying it. You said because even falling forward
Speaker 1: is forward motion, and I you were talking about and
Speaker 1: I can't honestly remember even in context what you were
Speaker 1: talking about. You're talking about falling down, people doing the
Speaker 1: wrong thing. Quote. You know that that still it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter if you get knocked down. Falling forward is forward motion.
Speaker 1: I believe that, but I've never heard it said that way.
Speaker 1: It's really it was really I loved it. Thanks. And
Speaker 1: you have you have two artists right now. You have
Speaker 1: Walker and your Caitlin Smith, and it was like, you
Speaker 1: would have made a label with my favorite artist, like
Speaker 1: your Showigning the People. I love Caitlin so much. I
Speaker 1: took Caitlin on the road with this too. I love
Speaker 1: so much. I love her, her music, her void, everything.
Speaker 1: I just it's just amazing. Like it's like I texted Jason,
Speaker 1: I was like, I mean, can I buy part of
Speaker 1: this imprint? Like how do I may need investors? How
Speaker 1: do I invest into this? Because he said she's so good.
Speaker 1: I can't wait for the news and oh god, she
Speaker 1: and she just cut you probably know what she just
Speaker 1: cut five new things and uh, I mean this song.
Speaker 1: I can't. I have to be honest. I did not
Speaker 1: know a lot of about her until she was brought
Speaker 1: in for the monument thing. I knew her name, and
Speaker 1: I knew this town is killing me. I knew that song,
Speaker 1: and I had written, had actually written with Caitlin years ago.
Speaker 1: But but I but seeing that, I have to tell you,
Speaker 1: seeing the girls singing live is I mean, it's like
Speaker 1: you're seeing one of the great truly. Yep, It's like, okay,
Speaker 1: it's doesn't matter when it's gonna happen, right. There are
Speaker 1: some people you look at and go had to happen.
Speaker 1: Yet oh it will. Oh yeah, there's no I mean,
Speaker 1: there's no stopping it. She's nobody. God doesn't give someone
Speaker 1: a voice like that without I mean, that is a
Speaker 1: this we're talking like Adele Level saying, I mean, I
Speaker 1: use a del because she's are, you know, sort of
Speaker 1: the queen. But but when you look back over voices
Speaker 1: a wreatha um, Whitney Houston, I have no problem with
Speaker 1: you compared to the because those people. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: the thing. She sings just as good. She's just not
Speaker 1: famous yet and yet is the thing. And I remember, well,
Speaker 1: I'm just a huge fan and she's a sweetheart. I mean,
Speaker 1: I can't not love her. She's just a real girl.
Speaker 1: And isn't that the key I found the key for
Speaker 1: me in my life, in my life and my career.
Speaker 1: Just surround yourself one with really good people and people
Speaker 1: that they often have be motivated, but the kids. Just
Speaker 1: amound yourself because it makes you better. I think you
Speaker 1: attract I wish that I was. I don't think I'm
Speaker 1: necessarily the great judge of people right when I meet them,
Speaker 1: but I have consistently been put in the path people
Speaker 1: that are wonderful. And so I think because I know that,
Speaker 1: like I kind of trust people, probably too soon, because
Speaker 1: my experiences have been that I've just have angels around me.
Speaker 1: I mean that's I say that all the time in
Speaker 1: the in the friendship and relationships of working, you know,
Speaker 1: in music, it's all it all blends family. It's not
Speaker 1: the greatest people around me, and uh so I just
Speaker 1: I'll just get in that flow. I don't, you know,
Speaker 1: for me, it's been accidental, but what what a great
Speaker 1: it's been a charmed a charmed path in that regard.
Speaker 1: Caitlin is such a good writer too. I'm just thinking
Speaker 1: because I'm as and I about to go to my
Speaker 1: girlfriends out. She's putting out a record, and so um,
Speaker 1: Caitlyn wrote one, Lindsay wrote most songs, and she picked
Speaker 1: up two outside songs. One is from a Caitlin song
Speaker 1: and one to Ryan heard song two of my friends.
Speaker 1: And it's just weird how this town is just well,
Speaker 1: it's it also seems like Caitlin like the fact that
Speaker 1: Lindsay Sharker is coming out right now, and there's a
Speaker 1: couple of other records coming out with Kitlin, Sonny and Smokeler,
Speaker 1: you have songs. Yeah, it's good. It's a good moment.
Speaker 1: And and Walker also is starting to have a cool
Speaker 1: you know, I was gonna say when when he when
Speaker 1: Payne was playing, he talks about Beer in the Fridge
Speaker 1: and Keith Urban texted me the day you played that,
Speaker 1: I didn't even know you were gonna play it. And
Speaker 1: this is so nobody ever knows anything I wanna play
Speaker 1: well in. Walker didn't know either, clearly. Keith texted me,
Speaker 1: they'll check this out. This is crazy. He texted me
Speaker 1: and said, I just heard a song called Beer in
Speaker 1: the Fridge on the radio. I would bet money you
Speaker 1: have something to do with it. And I took it
Speaker 1: as such an insane compliment, and I was like, why
Speaker 1: would you think that? And he was just like, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I just felt like something and it was
Speaker 1: your kind of story, and he was right, And I
Speaker 1: was like that I take that such a compliment because
Speaker 1: that song is so special to Walker. But the fact
Speaker 1: that Keith heard any any of my influence in that,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, He didn't know Walker or
Speaker 1: what I mean. He probably has heard his name, but um,
Speaker 1: he obviously listens to you and loves you and I
Speaker 1: love Keith Urban two. He's certainly one of my people
Speaker 1: like that. I was and and we'll we'll wrap it um.
Speaker 1: But that Urban dude like he I was in Australia
Speaker 1: and he textic goes, are you in Australia? Come to
Speaker 1: my house? And I'm like, why it's Christmas Eve too,
Speaker 1: I'm I might coming to a Christmas I'm not coming.
Speaker 1: I said, I'm not coming to your house with Christmas
Speaker 1: Eve and he's like, it's just Nick and not some
Speaker 1: of our family, like you Unlensy come over and I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, I know, like it's it's right. It's bizarre.
Speaker 1: It's like they're a little big talent. Keith, there are
Speaker 1: these people and you're like, why what, I'm just an
Speaker 1: idiot on the radio. But I I feel like the
Speaker 1: person in the corner just being so glad that they
Speaker 1: even listened to my songs. And I never went across
Speaker 1: the line. I feel like me, but they just they
Speaker 1: literally pull you over the line. They're like, so we're
Speaker 1: are friends. This is I'm a normal person. But I
Speaker 1: still it's hard for me to accept it. And it
Speaker 1: has been a really enjoyable talk for me. The same.
Speaker 1: I hope you've enjoyed it. For me, it was like,
Speaker 1: I'm not kidding. One of my friends who is is
Speaker 1: does pr for me. She worked at green Room, and
Speaker 1: so she text me. She goes, hey, you know you
Speaker 1: should get on the Bobby Cast And I'm like, who
Speaker 1: shows Shane. I'm not kidding. She goes Shane mcinally. I
Speaker 1: said he's coming over like thirty minutes, seriously not kidding,
Speaker 1: and she's like no. I was like, he's he's on
Speaker 1: the way. He had stick class week, He's coming over
Speaker 1: this week. And she was like, oh my good. Anyway,
Speaker 1: it's just weird, like look at this here hold On
Speaker 1: has Shane mcinlight the body guest he should that was
Speaker 1: set today at that is really weird, especially because we
Speaker 1: were gonna do it last week. So the fact that
Speaker 1: we did it today and I was like, uh see it,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you that's not like he should and he is.
Speaker 1: I've really enjoyed that much. For for everything you do
Speaker 1: for the I mean, it's just it's it is, you know,
Speaker 1: coincidental of how many things because of our taste that
Speaker 1: we work on that you have championed. But you really
Speaker 1: do have a lot to do with the things that
Speaker 1: I get involved with, and I'm afraid no one's ever
Speaker 1: going to hear them. Um, because you really do dig
Speaker 1: and find these things that, uh that I hope we're
Speaker 1: going to make a difference long term, and so thank
Speaker 1: you for doing that. I I just I think we
Speaker 1: both just do what we love and we feel awkward
Speaker 1: people thank us for doing something we love. I mean,
Speaker 1: you have to understand when when I'm working on these
Speaker 1: songs that don't quite fit, or working with these artists
Speaker 1: that don't quite fit, they have to have a live
Speaker 1: shown on them. And you're not afraid to do that.
Speaker 1: You don't wait for someone else to tell you that
Speaker 1: it's good. That's very unusual in this business, and you
Speaker 1: have to just know that it means a lot. Thank you.
Speaker 1: I feel very awkward, but I'm just gonna see you're
Speaker 1: welcome and move on. I do not do well with
Speaker 1: compliment at all. Uh, It's it's really been a pleasure.
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming by. I'm a huge fan. And
Speaker 1: now because I met your husband and love, we had
Speaker 1: a great time. He told me. I was I was like,
Speaker 1: I've met everybody in the whole world, but she so
Speaker 1: we have like thank you'll see each other all the time.
Speaker 1: Will be great. I'll see at the want of these games. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll see yeah. Shane mcinaley Here, episode what Mikelo just five?
Speaker 1: Episode five? Shane mcinale, You want to promote anything, right night? Twitter?
Speaker 1: And I think you promoted the show and promoting the
Speaker 1: crap out of me a Shane mcnealian. And we'll back
Speaker 1: next time Monday or next week. I think Aubrey Seller
Speaker 1: is coming in. Aubrey is awesome, and I mean yeah,
Speaker 1: and you mentioned her earlier. She's she's the best. So okay,
Speaker 1: I guess we're gonna go fin everybuddy,