WEBVTT - Episode 45 - Shane McAnally (3-23-17) 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:06.400 All right, welcome to episode from a House. Shane mcinalley 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:10.320 here finally, Hi, when it was taken forever. You got 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:12.360 sick last week, I know, and I'm barely if you 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:14.520 could tell I still sort of have this which I 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:17.520 prefer my voice like this, but I couldn't talk at 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:20.239 all this week. So and I actually want to get 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:22.280 to you know a lot of your stuff and just 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:25.239 a quick rundown before because I have something else i'll 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:27.800 talk to you about. But number one songs of yours 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:30.800 real quick, just so the folks out there listening, because 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:35.520 you're like the most famous not famous person in Nashville. Okay, yeah, 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:39.040 I think that's probably that's that's a that's a good 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:41.879 way to say it. Yeah, because you have the Vampaire 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:45.040 better dig to Americ kids, Kenny Chesney, Luke Bryan, Kissed Tomorrow, 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:47.839 Goodbye Lady and Abelleum Downtown, Sam Hunt, Leave the Night 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.760 on Derk Spentley different for girls, say you do Thomas 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:52.640 Rhett t shirt. There's a lot and it keeps going. 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:56.680 But that's how influential and like a big dealy is. 0:00:56.760 --> 0:00:58.400 Now with that being said, I kind of want to 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:00.560 talk to you about like theory for a second at 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:04.280 philosophy because that would be more fun. Um, well, don't worry, 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:05.560 we'll get to the part where you have to be 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:10.320 like But and I also think Shane might be the 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:15.640 richest person that's been up here, because we were not 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:20.839 think that now we were we were thinking, and it's 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:23.040 either richest person we've and I have no idea much 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:24.640 money you have, but I know what these songs pay. 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:28.240 If you right him in twos or threes, you're probably well, 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:32.800 I think we have the richest Bobby cast. Yes, it's funny. 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:36.200 I always joke about two. I always joke to friends like, well, 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:38.640 I'm rich, But when someone else says it, all of 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:40.000 a sudden, you get read and you want to go, 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:43.240 will you know, I think we have a new winner 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:46.880 and until yeah, I think right now you're reached by 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:50.600 the standards of where I came from clubhouse. Let's get 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:52.320 to all that. And he was, you're on Star Search 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:54.480 or so much I want to get to But this 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:56.520 came out this week, and you're the guy to talk 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:58.400 to about this because you're a writer and a producer 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:01.440 and you're an artist. So here is edge sher in 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:06.160 shape you right? You know your love was handing me 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:11.400 for somebody like me coming. Now great, All that's great, right, 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:14.040 So this week he had to add the writers of 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:17.320 TLC No Scrubs to his song now here is the 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:24.520 part of No Scrubs. I'm gonna plan it back again, 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:30.160 So it's you know, da da da da da, I 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:32.760 don't want no Scott. When you hear those two, what 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:35.320 do you here? Well, it's funny. I just heard about 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:39.480 this and I was I literally was thinking about it 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:43.000 this morning because I thought maybe the reason the writer's 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:44.799 noticed it was because at the end of that one 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:49.120 phrase he says, somebody liked me and they say no 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:53.560 love from me. Sometimes just the phonetically the syllables, that 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:57.240 the fact that they were saying me would make somebody go, oh, 0:02:57.360 --> 0:02:59.359 that sounds I would never have heard that. But I 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:03.960 didn't write No Scrubs, so it's hard to imagine. If 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:06.600 if I had written it, maybe I would say that's 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:10.360 on my song. I don't it doesn't. I don't feel 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:13.040 that now when you play them like that. If I was, 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:15.480 if I was, you know, just like in a jury 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:19.880 or however they do it, I would probably say I 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:23.959 see the connection there. But as a songwriter, because we 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:28.760 are all rewriting and influenced and hearing things. It would 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:32.320 be hard for me as a songwriter to say that 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:34.600 those writers should be on that song. That one's tough 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:39.360 for me, it is. And if it's going, hey jump 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:41.200 on as a songwriter. Maybe he doesn't want to deal 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:43.040 with it. Maybe think it's too close. It's happened to 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:45.800 him a couple of times. And even with See and 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:47.520 See on that song too. You know, see it has 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:48.960 a song and it sounds like that at the beginning 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:52.560 and some other Yeah. So I mean, why do you 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:56.000 where does it stop? I mean, either, I don't know 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:57.880 why it's happened so much lately. I mean, it seems 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:00.720 like it started with blurred lines. And here's this, here's 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:02.480 the two, here's Robin Thick blurred lines, by the way, 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:07.040 and they actually went to court and lost this case. 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:09.040 And so here's Marvin Gaye. Gotta give it to you. 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:13.240 I mean, for sure this one. You don't hear this one? No, 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:15.400 I do. I do know. The thing about that I 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:19.480 was My expression was they I cannot imagine that those 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:21.680 guys when they wrote it, and that when they made 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:25.400 that track, that they what they were thinking was theoretically 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:28.679 I mean you said theory, they were thinking, our melody 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:32.200 and our phrasing is different, but the track it sounds 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:34.160 so similar. So you have to think of like the 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:37.840 average listener's ear, does this hearken to that? Does this 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:40.000 make you think of that? It was certainly influenced by it. 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:43.520 It's so hard because I mean, we I would. I 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:45.120 think it's a pretty safe pet to say. I can't 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:47.840 speak for every songwriter, but most of the circle I 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:51.360 run with we drive to work every morning and come 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:52.880 in and go, oh my god, I just heard this 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:55.240 song like I want to write a feel like that. 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:57.920 You know, usually by the end of the day you 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:02.240 can hardly hear where we started. But we were still 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:06.520 influenced by I mean, it's it's impossible to sort of 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:10.839 pinpoint where it all started. And I really feel bad 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:14.320 for the for ed shearing that this continues to happen 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:18.160 in situation. Now. The other one of his uh, the 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:22.360 the big song was it thinking out Loud? That song 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:25.320 sounded very similar to the other song, and I didn't 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:26.960 I didn't actually know the other song, but I heard 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:28.960 him side by side. Yeah, And that guy was from 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:33.320 like a like idol, like um British ide or whatever 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:35.440 it's called, you know, and even that and I'll play 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:39.719 it this so I'm gonna pull up and it's close. 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:44.240 But even when you know tr Thomas did Die Happy Man, 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:46.640 that sounded. I told Tomas first time I heard, I 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:49.560 was like, are you like anything with ed like it? 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:52.680 And he was like, no, not yet, And I guess 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:56.480 nothing ever happened. It's the production on Die Happy Man 0:05:56.720 --> 0:06:00.040 that kind of makes you think of that, which in 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.400 is where does it lie? Is it the sound of 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:04.839 the musicians playing or is it the melody and the lyrics? 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:07.280 And it's it's getting harder and harder to I mean 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:10.280 for people to fight those things. What about this? And 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:13.120 we don't want to. Songwriters, if some things you stole 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:15.800 something from, Oh my god, I mean, if if someone 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:17.920 has you know, would ever say to me, I think 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:20.600 you got that from my song, especially if we were friends, 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:23.000 I would know they really felt that way. Songwriters don't 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.200 just cry wolf. I mean most of the time they're 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:28.320 not just out there trying to, you know, get on 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:30.760 a song. The ones I know, and if they bring 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:33.520 it up, it would be it would be very hurtful 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:35.360 because you would think, oh, I would never want you 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:37.360 to think that I stole that from you. You know, 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:40.040 I haven't had that happen to me. I mean I've 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:43.640 had friends where we've discussed. I'll be like I was 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:45.440 sort of like, you know, in a joking way, like, oh, 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:47.080 that's kind of like the one that we wrote that 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:49.600 was never a hit and now it's a hit for you. Um. 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:52.480 But that's in the very close circle where we write 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:55.680 so many songs, you know that sometimes topics crossed some things. 0:06:56.279 --> 0:07:02.200 This one here Smith and you know the song that 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:06.960 the Won't Back Down And now Tom Petty's a writer 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:10.840 on the Sam Smith song. I would never have noticed it, 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:13.720 but the melody is exactly the same. The weird thing 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:15.560 about this one the first time I heard it, I 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:17.360 heard it I was listening to Lightning One and they 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:19.960 were playing Sam Smith and I was like, this sounds 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:23.280 like R and B Tom Petty. Wow. And I didn't 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:24.760 hear until this pointed out, and I was like, well 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:26.640 it is. I mean you count the notes they used 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:29.320 to say it was like seven notes or something. That's 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.160 clearly not the rule anymore it can be. Do you 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:34.400 feel like this came from this? I mean, I think 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:38.080 there's actually I think I shouldn't be talking leally because 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:40.160 I don't know, but I just remember thinking that used 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:43.800 to be a seven note rule or something like. I 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:46.480 think this sample rule also used to be that too, 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:47.960 like if you would sample, you don't have to pay 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:51.160 for it at like seven notes. So that's that's why quick, 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:57.960 you know. Again, so uh, there are a lot of those. 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:00.400 And I wondered how you felt, because again, I feel 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:04.400 bad for everybody involved, because I hate for somebody on 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:06.560 one side, like No Scrubs, for those folks to think 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:09.440 that he stole from them, but God to get that 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:12.240 call and then to hear him side by side and go, wow, 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:14.240 I guess you can sort of you can hear it, 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:16.760 but the production is so different. The way we make 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:18.840 records is so different than when No Scrubs, you know, 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:21.440 so the sound is just different. But you you lay 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:23.880 them out, I mean there is I can see where 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:26.280 somebody would hear it. I wouldn't have heard it for me, 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.280 and I am, by no means a real life songwriter, 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:30.840 but every butting a kids album and did you never 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.360 write comedy songs? I have to have writers insurance. Okay, 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:35.880 someone sees me, I can only imagine. And this is 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:39.319 mine's gonna be miniscule compared to what yours. Did you know, 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:40.920 I don't really know what we pay. I know that 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:43.559 we're covered in that way. Um, because certainly when you 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:48.000 have this many songs floating around and and uh, it 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:49.599 gets I have to be honest with you, Sonny. In 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:51.640 country world, we kind of stay in our in our 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:54.040 corner when we have things that start to cross over. 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:57.800 Is when I started, like the the new Sam single 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:00.840 body like a back road. Uh. I've heard a couple 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:03.679 of different people say it reminded them of songs and 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:05.719 I can't even tell you which one is. Different ones. 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:07.559 Oh it makes me think of this, and I'm like, 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:10.880 oh God, that song is getting is looking to sort 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:13.560 of make the crossover push. Like that's when I would 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:15.559 be afraid of it. When it has that sort of 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:20.079 attention on it. Well, more ears bring more thoughts, exactly. 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:23.080 And so when it goes from forty million people hearing 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:26.720 it to five million people hearing it and somebody yeah exactly. 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:31.120 So let's talk about you for a second, and let's 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.120 bounce around a little bit. First of all, because you 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:36.200 grew up in Texas and you went to ut Yeah 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:38.200 and so and you wanted to be like, like an 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:40.679 accountant or a financial guy. Went, I went. I was 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:43.360 in accounting. I was weirdly really good at math. That 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:45.319 was one of the only natural things to me in 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.400 school and uh, which did kind of show up in 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:50.959 my songwriting. It a lot of people don't have. I 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:54.000 don't see songwriting that way. It's it is nu merit 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:56.640 to me. When I look at lyrics on a page, 0:09:57.280 --> 0:10:01.320 seeing the way the lines lay out looks mathematical, almost 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:03.360 like a graph, like, oh, that verse doesn't match the 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:05.439 second verse. And that's not how most people right. And 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:07.320 I've gotten I've tried to get away from it because 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:11.199 there is a more train of thought way of writing now. Um. 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.880 But with that said, I like, you know, you take 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:17.160 your S A T S and they can separate different 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:20.880 parts that I did very good enough in math to 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:23.920 be in the School of Business at ut which is 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:26.040 harder to get into once you've been there a couple 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.280 of years. So they suggested, since my scores were high enough, 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:30.760 go ahead and started in the School of Business. So 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:32.959 I was an accounting major, But I mean in my 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:34.760 first year I didn't really get that deep into it. 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:37.360 He's super good student. I was in high school, like 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:40.079 you're I'm a competitive person. I think it had to 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:43.480 do with more wanting to for people to like me, 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:45.800 wanting to be the best at stuff where you super 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:49.320 gifted or super hard workers. Hard worker really so okay, 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:51.480 so you go how on the because I imagine you 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:54.000 could sing while you're doing this, because you're an artist. 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:59.600 So are you singing in Texas? Yeah, I was about twelve, 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:01.640 I did. I got on stage the first time in 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:03.760 just saying it like a you know, local contest at 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:07.120 the mall. What that turned into was sort of a 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:13.920 weekend gig of of um going around two in Texas 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:17.199 and Oklahoma. In Arkansas there's sort of an opera circuit. 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:19.280 I don't even really know if this is still something 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:21.320 that goes on, But when I was a kid, there 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:23.199 were places you could go and play with the band. 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:27.800 There these operys and reviews. There was this one in 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:33.400 uh Great Contextas where it was like Lean Wimack, Steve Holly, myself, 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:34.920 Lee and Rhymes grew up on that show was the 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:37.319 Johnny High Country Music Review. A lot of a lot 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:40.280 of Nashville talent has come from there. So that's what 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:42.839 I would do on the weekends. And uh and that 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:44.680 got you know, and then I was on Star Search 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:46.160 and I moved to Branson for a while. I can't 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:49.240 skip over star starts like that. You can't so bad. 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:50.719 I'm so glad you do not have a way to 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:54.040 show that clip. Well, it's just you have to meet 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:58.480 ebit man. Yes, like if for those if you're listening 0:11:58.520 --> 0:11:59.959 and then you're under twenty five, you don't even know. 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.319 But Ed McMahon was. He was like to do that 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:06.439 was the coolest thing about doing it. It was American, 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:08.800 Adam before it was American right exactly. So you went 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.240 on Star Search at what age I was and what 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:15.719 did you say? I saying sometimes when we touch, sometimes 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:19.600 when we touched, very serious. I wore the most stars 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.120 that you got to in three quarters. I did not 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:26.960 do well. And I was against this, literally a fourteen 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:30.480 year old Whitney Houston. I swear I saw her in 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:34.679 rehearsal and I was like, what am I doing here? 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:38.000 I was just this country kid tried and I tried 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:41.040 to like jazz it up because I was against her 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:42.360 and I saw what she did and I tried to 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.520 do things that vocally we're not really in my you 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:49.760 know element and uh, I learned a lot I got. 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:51.959 I was really hurt by that. It's funny, it sounds 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:54.719 you know, my my childhood was a little bizarre. My 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:59.400 um my parents divorced when I was twelve. My dad 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:04.400 actually went to to prison. Um, and I just was 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:08.480 kind of a lost kid, really trying to hold it 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.319 together in a way that the Star Search. I pinned 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:14.120 a lot of my hopes and dreams on that, um 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:18.000 if that makes any sense, Like I I was like, 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:20.920 if I can win this, something will happen for me 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:24.359 outside of this. So I took it very very seriously. 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.440 And uh, it's it's funny. I have a hard time 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:33.720 even now I'm forty two, it's still I just did 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:36.400 this thing at the Hall of Fame where they showed 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:38.679 all these clips of me growing up and stuff this 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:42.080 Poets and Profit series, which was an honor. But they 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:44.320 showed a clip of that that they asked if they could, 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:46.839 and it was really hard for me. I mean, do 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:50.800 you feel like you let your mom or absolutely? And 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:52.719 I and look, I don't feel like that. Now. Look 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:54.719 what I've my life has gotten into. But I think 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:57.040 I think it's more about I look at that kid, 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:00.600 and I just wish I could have talk to him 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.800 so that he would just calm down, you know, you know, 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:05.439 and I relate to you in the way of my parents. 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:07.840 I don't know my real dad, you know, and um 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:10.360 my mom's not alive anymore. But I kept from a 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:12.120 broken home too, and I always felt a little bit 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:14.679 like it was my fault. There was some kind of 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:17.160 just if I would have just been better at something 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:19.800 that maybe it wouldn't. And I think that's a common feeling. 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.600 It doesn't really logically make sense when you're an adult 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:27.600 and you look, You're like, why would that Why would 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:29.760 it be your fault? But yeah, I mean that was 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:32.680 sort of that that Star searchs thing, weirdly is a 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:39.160 great symbol of what it marked something for me, you know. Also, 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:43.600 I was, look, I didn't even know this myself, and 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.440 and not to make it about this, but I was 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.600 really sort of a stranger in my own body because 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:53.240 I was gay and I didn't know, but sort of 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:55.800 you're mixed up and I'm growing up in the small 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:59.920 town in Texas where everything is football and and you know, testosterone, 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.480 and like I'm singing, I just thought I would go 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.960 on Star Search and like show everybody at fifteen in 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:10.440 Texas where you openly gay to anyone. No, not even 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:12.680 to me. I mean my I had a girlfriend through 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:16.320 college and and uh, I don't even think I was lying. 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:17.920 And a lot of times people will be like, how 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.800 could you have lied? I think I just had no exposure. 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:25.480 I just felt out of place. When did you finally 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.360 feel in place? I don't know. I mean I think 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.200 I still struggle with that. It's funny. I was just 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:33.720 I was just saying this to someone the other day, 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:37.120 a young artist. I said, you know, I thought when 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:40.480 I had kids that somehow something would click and make 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:43.120 me a grown up, that I wouldn't still be scared 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:45.240 of the same things, or because you can't your parents 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:49.560 kind of have to fake it or or adults. I'm 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:53.120 I'm still I still have the same insecurity, same fears. 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:58.120 But I do feel really loved in this community. Um, 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:01.080 I feel really respected. And so I don't know if 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:03.720 it if you as if a creative person ever feels 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:06.640 like they completely fit. I think that's that's what drives us. 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:08.440 That's why you keep creating, because you feel like you 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:10.440 have to keep creating so you can create whatever the 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:12.800 full is and you never achieved the search exactly. You're 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:15.440 always on the search. But I will say that that 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:21.400 this success, in this sort of acceptance by the the 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:25.400 songwriting community in Nashville, it does that is a little 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:27.600 part of my heart that's a little more, a little 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:32.480 more together. I mean that sounds dramatic, but uh, if 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:34.840 it's true, if it's a real feeling you have, then 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:36.480 it's you. I don't need some of them. I mean 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.400 saying this. I haven't ever said it that way when 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:41.880 you said when did you fit? And I guess I don't. 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:44.880 I I don't, but I but in most people I 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:49.800 know probably don't. But there are moments of where people 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:52.880 doing things like this, I mean, getting to see it 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:55.760 all together here, the fact that you want to talk 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:59.680 to me, it it is validating and it does feel 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:02.000 like I did something. How do you feel about because 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:09.200 the country music genre gets this reputation as being southern male, 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:12.840 gotta be straight. Here, you are a gay man super 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:16.879 successful in country music. But I don't feel what everyone 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:20.240 else says we're supposed to be. It isn't like I 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:24.359 don't feel what everyone says you have. It's funny because 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:27.240 a few years ago, when I was first having a 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:30.440 big run um. This guy came to do a story 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:32.639 on me from the New York Times and the angle 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:37.200 was gay in country music. What that must be like, 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:40.119 Like that You're going in with all these you know, redneck, 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.879 straight masculine men and writing these songs. They must it 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:46.639 must be hard to even get in the rooms with 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.040 those guys or and I said, you know, it just 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.640 has not. I have not had that experience. I think 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:56.359 that there are so many great songwriters and you just 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.680 have to be so much better than everybody else to 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.040 in any capacity. It doesn't matter if you used to 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:05.120 have a record deal, or if you're gay, or if 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:08.360 everybody has a reason why it's not gonna work for him. 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:11.200 And you know, a lot of times gay songwriters will 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.600 come up to me at the Bluebird or whatever and say, oh, 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:16.600 you've just been so inspiring to me. Like what would 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:18.960 you say to a gay songwriter? And I'll say, just 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:22.639 write the best songs. I mean, that's that really sounds simple. 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:24.840 But I would love to have used it, and maybe 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:28.200 sometimes I have used it as a reason, you know, 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.480 for like not getting something. But the reality is I've 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:36.359 never been treated in a negative way. If anything, I 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:39.159 think it's been the opposite as you look back and man, 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:41.880 we have a lot, have a lot. Uh here, Before 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:43.560 I do this, let me talk about what's what's our 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:46.440 first sponsor sleep Number. The great thing about doing this 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:49.480 podcast for my house is that my bed, my sleep 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:52.560 Number bed, is just about ten feet from here, because 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:54.600 I do we do the show upstairs in my house 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:57.040 and my bedrooms right next to it. And I love 0:18:57.119 --> 0:18:59.120 my sleep number bed for a bunch of reasons. First 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:00.840 of all, if you're trying to of a healthy lifestyle 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:03.360 and you need a balanced diet in a regular exercise, 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:07.040 but mostly you need great sleep, and people sometimes don't 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.440 think about that. At a Sleep number store. You go 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:11.680 into the store and you feel how I sleep number 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:14.359 mattress adjust to you for the right comfort every single night. 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:15.879 And I don't know if your bed does that or not. 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:18.239 Probably doesn't know. I guess the sleep Number bed let 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:20.360 you choose your ideal comfort on each side, so it's 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:23.600 perfect for couples. Optional sleep by Q technology to give 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:26.080 you personal insights. And sometimes I come right over, like 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:28.359 I'll be laying down like thirty thirty minutes of it, 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:30.480 come right over and do this. Sleep number setting is 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:32.879 a thirty in my sleep by you last night. I 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:34.240 didn't get a lot of sleep last night, be honest 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:35.800 with you, because I was just out gone late. So 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:37.639 I'm not gonna lie. I don't even know what it was. 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:39.960 So right now, I say, four hundred dollars the most 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:43.480 popular P five mattress, eight hundred next bed to find 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.080 one of the five hundred sleep number stores near you. 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:49.240 Eight hundred next bed. And that's about sleep number. Okay, 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:52.800 we're back, and so as you look, I have so 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:58.280 many clips here and you're you're so accomplished at your age. 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:04.320 Let's start with Kenny Chetney because it seem okay, um, 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:07.800 let's start with that. So how did the Kenny you 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:10.399 getting into the Kenny camp? Well, what's weird is that 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:12.520