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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here, I've got to tell you

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Speaker 1: about an incredible podcast I firmly believe you.

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Speaker 2: Will not only love, laugh, but learn from.

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Speaker 1: It's Zone seven with my longtime friend and colleague for

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Speaker 1: expert Cheryl McCollum. As a crime scene investigator with years

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Speaker 1: of experience in the system, Cheryl brings a treasure trove

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Speaker 1: of knowledge to Zone seven, diving into cold cases with

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Speaker 1: an incredible perspective that only someone in the business could bring.

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Speaker 1: She brings on incredible experts directly from her Zone seven network.

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Speaker 1: Follow Zone seven on your favorite podcast app and without

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Speaker 1: any further ado, here is my friend, Cheryl McCallum.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Crime Round Up. I'm Cheryl McCollum and

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Speaker 2: we are joined by the one, the only, the incomparable,

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Speaker 2: Nancy Grace. Good morning, Good morning.

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Speaker 3: Luigim and JIONI just caught a federal charge.

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Speaker 2: Right on.

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Speaker 3: Wait, can I tell you something real quick?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Hold on, David, come here, shut David. I had to

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Speaker 3: make it real. He had to be in the room

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Speaker 3: before I told him to shut up. Okay, I can

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Speaker 3: just pretend to say shut up. We don't say the

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Speaker 3: spird but I reserve it just for David. Did you know,

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Speaker 3: man Jonnie caught a federal chargers means he can get

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Speaker 3: the death penalty. Okay, that's what I was going to

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Speaker 3: tell you. When I was prosecuting people with Judge Alberson,

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Speaker 3: who is my favorite judge of all time, Luther Alberson

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Speaker 3: was so old that he was he the manitary retirement

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Speaker 3: age did not apply to him because he was already

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Speaker 3: I don't know. You may have been too all at

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Speaker 3: the time they passed it, but I can tell you this,

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Speaker 3: this is what it meant to me in practical terms.

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Speaker 3: He wanted to be known as fit as a fiddle

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Speaker 3: and the best judge in the courthouse. So we would

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Speaker 3: have to keep our jail count the lowest. What is

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Speaker 3: a jail count? That means that out of all the

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Speaker 3: hundreds and hundreds of cases you have pending, the number

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Speaker 3: of defendants that are sitting in jail waiting for the

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Speaker 3: resolution of their case, it would come out every Monday

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Speaker 3: and you would see what judge is not attending to business?

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Speaker 2: Uh huh, Because if.

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Speaker 3: You've got people sitting in the jail, you need to

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Speaker 3: try them, or plead them, or drop the case, do something,

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Speaker 3: and all the judges would compare that jail count secretly

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Speaker 3: and see which judge, like Eldridge Lord he would have

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Speaker 3: a jail count up round eighty nine one hundred and

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Speaker 3: Albertson wanted his jail count under twenty. Okay, And since

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Speaker 3: they wouldn't plead anybody out cheap, they all had to

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Speaker 3: go to trial. Okay. I loved him so much, so

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Speaker 3: what he would force us to do, which was finally

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Speaker 3: made and forced me on one day a week, we

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Speaker 3: would bring in the defendant from the jail and the

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Speaker 3: attorney and me and my investigator, and we'd go through

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Speaker 3: the file and give a plea deal if there was

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Speaker 3: a deal to be had. They were saying, Miss Grace,

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Speaker 3: I caught a little robbery charge, like somebody threw it

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Speaker 3: at them and they just happened to catch it. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so what I see same, Me and Jonny just caught

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Speaker 3: a federal charge. It made me think I caught a

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Speaker 3: little robbery charge, miss Grace. Yep, I'm just charge oh man, Okay,

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Speaker 3: so this is what I know. In the last twenty

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Speaker 3: four hours, federal prosecutors unseal a murder case against Menzioni,

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Speaker 3: holding out the possibility of the death penalty after a

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Speaker 3: trial on separate state charges. There you go the federal

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Speaker 3: charges on one count using firearm to commit murder, death

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Speaker 3: tooth stalking counts and a firearms offense. What about that?

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Speaker 2: I think it's the right call, and I think it's

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Speaker 2: going to send a really good message for some of

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Speaker 2: these copycats, intended idiots, because you know, these people think

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Speaker 2: this is a game. They think this is something. Hey,

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Speaker 2: we can go around and you know, stab the CEO

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Speaker 2: in a meeting, you know, make threats on line to

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Speaker 2: this one, it's going to be shut down. And the

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Speaker 2: more people that you know, play these games and go

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Speaker 2: to jail, it's going to regulate the other ones.

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Speaker 3: I've got a big, big, overarching question, why are there

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Speaker 3: so many idiots running around? I was reading an article

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Speaker 3: about Mangoni and some lawyer. If I could remember their name,

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Speaker 3: I would absolutely tell you so well, this isn't a

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Speaker 3: federal case because crossing state lines to commit a crime

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Speaker 3: does not make it federal. I'm like, what who said that?

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Speaker 3: Because the complaint accuses me and Gione of crossing state

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Speaker 3: lines from Atlanta to the Port Authority in New York

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Speaker 3: to stalk and kill Thompson, which gives the FEDS jurisdiction

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Speaker 3: to prosecute him.

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Speaker 2: Yep, and he did so with an illegal weapon with

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Speaker 2: the intent to come in murder, which he did.

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Speaker 3: I just had to crack open another can first thing

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Speaker 3: in the morning, tea of the eight blood sodium and

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Speaker 3: I'm hitting it hard. Today's Cheryland.

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Speaker 2: Hey, I gotta jail you something. What in nineteen ninety

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Speaker 2: six when you left Atlanta ninety seven, you know, all

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Speaker 2: night we didn't even have cable TV. So like I

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Speaker 2: knew this was a big deal. I knew it was

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Speaker 2: super cool, but I didn't get to watch you every week,

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Speaker 2: you know, every night. And then when you came back

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Speaker 2: and was it two thousand and five you started a Jillian.

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Speaker 3: Let me say, David, when was it. I think it

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Speaker 3: was before then. It was before then. Let me think,

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Speaker 3: because for the longest time I did Court TVD Then

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Speaker 3: I across town. You know it can take an hour

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Speaker 3: to cross town. I don't mean go up down downtown.

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Speaker 3: I mean go from the east side to the west side.

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Speaker 3: Oh my goodness. And then for a while my EP

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Speaker 3: wanted me to do a podcaster. It wasn't a podcast,

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Speaker 3: it was filmed in the car in the car on

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Speaker 3: the way where we would have our meeting about what

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Speaker 3: were we gonna? What were the was the focus that night? Anyway?

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Speaker 3: It was insane. Yes. So then at some point it

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Speaker 3: was after I had oh and when I was pregnant.

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Speaker 3: No one knew I was pregnant except the make up

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Speaker 3: ladies Anita and Vincenza, and they need because I throw

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Speaker 3: up at the trash can almost every morning. And then okay,

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Speaker 3: I'm fine, put on the make it.

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Speaker 2: Let's go okay.

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Speaker 3: And then ultimately I moved back to Atlanta and started

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Speaker 3: shooting the hl In Show from the Atlanta Flagship.

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Speaker 2: Correct. And that's and you know I was on with

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Speaker 2: you a lot. Oh gosh, yeah, I mean I knew

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Speaker 2: that you were well known, especially in Atlanta. I mean,

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Speaker 2: but I didn't understand naturally what you were if that

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Speaker 2: makes any sense. Conceptually, Yes, you were on TV. People

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Speaker 2: knew you, but even back in the day in Fulton County,

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Speaker 2: everybody knew you. So it was two thousand and six.

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Speaker 2: I'll never forget it.

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Speaker 3: I know that story is going somewhere.

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Speaker 2: It is I funched the Gilmore Girls and Nancy. That's

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you know that show. But it's

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Speaker 2: about a mom and a daughter.

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Speaker 3: It's really cute talking about Star.

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Speaker 2: Hollow, are you I am?

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Speaker 3: Lucy loves it. Yes, I've been forced to watch it now.

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Speaker 3: I actually like it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know if.

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Speaker 3: It's Orwillian or not. You know, you do it so

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Speaker 3: much you think that's wonderful.

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Speaker 2: It's wonderful. But you know that mom on the show,

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Speaker 2: her humor was so funny but so quick. I mean,

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Speaker 2: she would have these lines. She would say, I'm so

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Speaker 2: fast that if you weren't paying attention, you would miss

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Speaker 2: some of the embedded humor. Well, I'm watching that show

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Speaker 2: in two thousand and six and she's talking about her mama.

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Speaker 2: Her mama drives crazy sometimes, you know, she can just

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Speaker 2: strangle her whatever.

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Speaker 3: Her mother was very often right, I might add.

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Speaker 2: And so she was saying she needs a buffer of

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Speaker 2: her best friends sometimes between she and her mom. And

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Speaker 2: she was like, look, that buffer is my mom's best friend.

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Speaker 2: Without that buffer, Nacy Grace is going to be camping

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Speaker 2: out or miss Patty's front law. And I was like,

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Speaker 2: what Grase? And how could the Gilmour girls make a

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Speaker 2: reference that fast? I knew in that moment just how

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Speaker 2: famous you were. Fast forward two nights ago, Hucky Caroline

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Speaker 2: busting this house talking about Nancy Grace. They just did

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Speaker 2: a parody on f and Lady. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: you saw it, but girl, you are still iconic.

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Speaker 3: I really appreciate all that you're saying I do. And

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Speaker 3: it was flattering. I got a flutter text one hated

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Speaker 3: that hurt your feelings.

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Speaker 2: Hurt your feeling No, not at all.

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Speaker 3: I was, you know, flattered and honored. And it could

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Speaker 3: have been so much worse.

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Speaker 2: Basically, oh Hockey, Caroline loved it, and they were both

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Speaker 2: going with am I regis right? You know it was awesome?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I dig it and I sit there and

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Speaker 2: I think, and I've said this before to you, but

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna say it again. It took so much guts

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Speaker 2: to do what you did, leave what was familiar, all

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Speaker 2: these people that loved you, with a track record that

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Speaker 2: you had, and go to a city you had never

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Speaker 2: lived in before to do a show and then to

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Speaker 2: use your name. And I've told Hunt and Caroline this.

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Speaker 2: If she had failed, Nancy Grace would have failed. If

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Speaker 2: you had called the show anything else, you know, legal breaths,

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Speaker 2: nobody would even remember you if it hadn't worked, But

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Speaker 2: what you did was just legendary. So I just wanted

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Speaker 2: to say it was super cool for my own children

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Speaker 2: of us in to be champion for you because they

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Speaker 2: thought it was that just fantastic.

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't really know how to take a compliment.

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Speaker 3: I really appreciate that, but i'd like to I feel

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Speaker 3: better talking about cases than I do about any of that.

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Speaker 3: And I also am just oblivious to everything going on

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Speaker 3: around me than the twins, David, mother and the cases.

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Speaker 3: Everything else is just like what, oh yeah, and the dog.

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Speaker 3: So thank you. But can we talk about MANZIONI now, yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 3: there's no telling what's going to happen next with Menngione.

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Speaker 3: But what do you make of the federal charges? Are

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Speaker 3: they a bargaining chip? Are they real? Are the Feds

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Speaker 3: going to actually go forward with it? Or is it

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Speaker 3: something to hold over his head to get a plea.

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Speaker 3: I don't see him entering plate, not with these lawyers.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's freaky. His lawyer is married to the

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Speaker 3: Diddy lawyer, Sean Combs.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I saw that, and I'll tell you I take

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Speaker 2: a different stance. I don't think they're going to offer

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Speaker 2: him a please. I think you've got every ceo with

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Speaker 2: every fortune five hundred saying this has got the end.

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Speaker 2: You've got to stop it. These people are exposed. Everybody

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Speaker 2: knows where they are seventy hours a week. They know

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Speaker 2: their entrance, their exit. And that's the reason folks like

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Speaker 2: Home Depot and Cocola and Delta and all these other

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Speaker 2: people have CEOs with drivers and private security because they

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Speaker 2: need them.

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Speaker 3: If you know that a new poll was just conducted,

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Speaker 3: I mean, if you believe polls that states younger voters

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Speaker 3: are evenly divided on whether what means you Onie did

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Speaker 3: was assassination or whether it was righteous.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to say again, and I've said it. I

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Speaker 2: have had so many people send me screenshots, whether it's

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Speaker 2: the new Robinhood, he's a hero, he's so good looking,

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Speaker 2: all these things. All I can think of is how

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Speaker 2: lucky you are that you're life has never been touched

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Speaker 2: by this level of violence. That you can think that

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Speaker 2: it's okay any group, any group that you can say, oh,

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Speaker 2: they deserve to be killed in the street, you have

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Speaker 2: got to look at that on some level and go,

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Speaker 2: wait a minute, I am so out of bounds here because,

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Speaker 2: like you and I have talked about privately, you change

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Speaker 2: that rich with any other word, and you know you

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Speaker 2: sound crazy as a rat in a coffee camp.

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Speaker 3: I want to talk about the notebook, the spiral notebook

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Speaker 3: that you keep mentioning, and I like the way you

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Speaker 3: mention it and the context in which you mention it.

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Speaker 3: The notebook. I can't wait to read the entries because

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Speaker 3: it's going to be his handwritten notes of his amusings.

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Speaker 3: I've always wondered what was OJ Simpson writing in that

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Speaker 3: notebook Cochran would give him to make him look like

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Speaker 3: he was studious and attention to the trial. They're probably

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Speaker 3: just doodlings. But I do know that one entry dated

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Speaker 3: August fifteen. I know very little at this juncture, but

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Speaker 3: I do know that entry said, quote the details, the

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Speaker 3: details are finally coming together. And I'm getting this from

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Speaker 3: the federal federal complaint. Quote. I'm glad in a way

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Speaker 3: that I've procrastinated. He says. It gave him more time

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Speaker 3: to learn about the company he was targeting. He says,

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Speaker 3: the target is insurance. It checks every box. I mean,

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Speaker 3: we're gonna learn a lot. As you described a rat

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Speaker 3: and a coffee again, that's right about what's going on

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Speaker 3: in his hand I mean it's because I'm curious. I

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Speaker 3: don't want to get too If I were trying the case,

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't get too deeply in it except for the

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Speaker 3: probate of value. This entry shows that, and that entry

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Speaker 3: shows this, because if you really get tangled up in

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Speaker 3: the inner workings of his mind, I mean, it's like

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Speaker 3: walking through five feet ache income. I mean, you're not

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Speaker 3: going to get anywhere. It's just ramblings and musings. And

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Speaker 3: I don't know that I would even want the jury

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Speaker 3: to have it. Well, I guess you'd have to give

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Speaker 3: it to him because it's probably full of bizarreities. It's

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Speaker 3: not a word, and I wouldn't want the jury bogged down.

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Speaker 3: But that said, I would love to read it.

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Speaker 2: And that's why he's a contradiction. Nothing he does versus

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Speaker 2: what he says, versus what he believes versus his actions

255
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Speaker 2: add up. So on the one hand, he's a tech expert,

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Speaker 2: but he's going to use a spiral notebook. He wants

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Speaker 2: to hide and get away with this. Yet this is

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Speaker 2: in your handwriting and found on your person. A lot

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Speaker 2: of playing and went in but no streat wise activity,

260
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Speaker 2: like he doesn't understand how if I used fake ID

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Speaker 2: and cash money, how in the world did they find me?

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Speaker 2: Because he doesn't understand law enforcement, especially one of the

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Speaker 2: best law enforcement agencies in the world. And then you've

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Speaker 2: got the Internet, the very thing that he wasn't even

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Speaker 2: trying to be a part of because he quote went

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Speaker 2: off the grid prior to the assassination.

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Speaker 3: Wait, you call Livin and a forty story higher eyes

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Speaker 3: on the Honolulu Beach going off the grid?

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Speaker 2: Oh what?

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Speaker 3: No, off the grid is Eric Rudolf? This means youonity

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Speaker 3: at what kills me? Wait a minute, can I tell you

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Speaker 3: something else? We need to talk about this. I hate

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Speaker 3: to give you all my AMMO that I planned to

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Speaker 3: use on crime stories, but I will, Sister at arms.

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Speaker 3: All of these photos. Look at them. One of them,

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Speaker 3: he's laying on his back. Okay, think about it. He's

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Speaker 3: laying on his back. Think of somebody laying on a bend.

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Speaker 3: You're at the end of the bed with your camera

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Speaker 3: and they lay on their back and hang their head

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Speaker 3: down and look at you upside down. There's a shot

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Speaker 3: of him like that with a bunch of girls. Do

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Speaker 3: not throw away that last donut. Oh okay, never mind,

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Speaker 3: they're Krispy Kremes. Why are there so many duncans and

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Speaker 3: so fio Crispies?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: What's that all about? Everybody knows Krispies are better.

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Speaker 2: And that hot sign come on now.

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Speaker 3: Hot donuts now sign. It's not a hot sign, it's

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Speaker 3: an HDN hot donuts now now. So all the teachers

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Speaker 3: are trying to cram everything in before they go for

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Speaker 3: Christmas tests and all that. So we've been living off

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Speaker 3: Krispy Kreme donuts all week. Anyway, I thought David was

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Speaker 3: actually make sure there's not one left in there, because

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Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure mother only Okay, it's so hard to

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Speaker 3: give my mother anything for breakfast that she likes, and

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Speaker 3: I've just discovered she never really likes sweets. In the

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Speaker 3: last couple of weeks, she loves Krispy Kreme donuts, so

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Speaker 3: I usually hand make her oatmeal with those golden raisins

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Speaker 3: in it. Okay, she got turned to that. Okay, cheese

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Speaker 3: grips with bacon in it, got turned to that cheese,

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Speaker 3: got tired of that. Now She's send a Krispy Kreme

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Speaker 3: donuts and I'm so happy. I hope it lasts forever. Okay,

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Speaker 3: where was I? Oh? Oh the photos? How can he

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Speaker 3: lay on his back and hang his head there, I'm

305
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:26,080
Speaker 3: backwards off like a hammock or something, smiling and giggling

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Speaker 3: with a back problem. Then he is pictured in a

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Speaker 3: hallway pickling two girls at once as they laughed giddily.

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Speaker 3: He is surfing, he is running on the beach. There

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Speaker 3: was one photo and I know you're stealing all this

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Speaker 3: from me by thought process. He loved who You know,

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Speaker 3: It's like I sumoked you. You suck it in, then you

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Speaker 3: spit it out like us.

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Speaker 2: You're right, idea.

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Speaker 3: I'm just looking at you, going I just said that.

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Speaker 3: Then wait, there was one with a girl riding piggyback

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Speaker 3: on his back. I'm starting to be suspicious of this

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Speaker 3: whole back thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, little bit. And you know, he's hunched over building

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Speaker 2: a firearm, which took hours and hours and hours. He's

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Speaker 2: hunged over right in a manifesto. He's hunged over writing

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Speaker 2: messages on shell cases. He's running from the scene. He's

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Speaker 2: bicycling from the scene. He's riding a bus.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's a lot of low grade heels in

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Speaker 3: Central Park, some of them not that low grade because

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Speaker 3: the twins, they grew up in New York. The twins

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Speaker 3: love to play in their gray rocks and they're really

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Speaker 3: they're all over central part and they're really tall. They

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Speaker 3: love to get up on those rocks. That'd be a

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Speaker 3: nervous wreck. And I'm thinking that's where he ditched his

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Speaker 3: backpack and they had to climb up those rocks to

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Speaker 3: do that.

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Speaker 2: Again, does not sound like a back problem.

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Speaker 3: Oh, you know, he's gonna lay it on thick in

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Speaker 3: the courtroom, though, You're.

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Speaker 2: Right, And I think all they need to do is

336
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,320
Speaker 2: show the video of him riding that bicycle over speed

337
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,480
Speaker 2: bumps and every everything else. He's not wincing. And again

338
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,680
Speaker 2: he chose a bus which took four times as long

339
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,879
Speaker 2: to get to New York. If you've got a back problem,

340
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:12,960
Speaker 2: you're not gonna want to sit for that long.

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Speaker 3: Have you ever had a back problem?

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Speaker 2: Never, I'm a knock on one.

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Speaker 3: I haven't either. But they're excruciating. They're really painful from

344
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,560
Speaker 3: what I understand. So I don't know for me. The

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00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,119
Speaker 3: jury's out on the back ELM. Because I see the

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Speaker 3: X ray with the pins, I guess those are pins

347
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,680
Speaker 3: and his spine and his vertebra. But his activities, how

348
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,920
Speaker 3: can you do that with all the back? Why do

349
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,320
Speaker 3: we wait a minute? Number one, I think it shows

350
00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,520
Speaker 3: he's a liar, but that has nothing to do with

351
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 3: any sort of justification for gunning anybody down, much less

352
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Speaker 3: somebody you've never met.

353
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Speaker 2: You can't give me a reason. And that's the reason

354
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,840
Speaker 2: when people say, well, what is the motive, I don't care.

355
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 2: There's a reason. We don't have to and say what

356
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 2: the motive is in court. To me, it's not relevant.

357
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,480
Speaker 2: What is relevant is this young man decided on his

358
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 2: own that he was going to murder somebody in cold

359
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 2: blood from the bat. I mean, what a coward, what

360
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 2: a honk move? You won't even step to somebody face

361
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:21,000
Speaker 2: to face.

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00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,359
Speaker 3: The only reason he's getting the celebrity treatment is because

363
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:29,800
Speaker 3: he is rich, educated, white. Yes I said it, and

364
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,680
Speaker 3: some people not me, but some people think he's handsome.

365
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,880
Speaker 3: That's why if this were anybody else hid be under

366
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,359
Speaker 3: the jail, they'd be like, screw him. That is it.

367
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:46,120
Speaker 3: It is elitist and it is wrong. And if anybody else,

368
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 3: and let me just throw in while we're on a

369
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 3: two tier justice system right now. Uh uh No, he

370
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 3: is a school shooter, and we're all like, oh, she

371
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 3: was so tortured you maybe because her parents got married,

372
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 3: got divorced, got married, got divorced, and she would be

373
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 3: two days with this one, two days with that one,

374
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 3: three days with this one, back and forth. Children all

375
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 3: around the country have that whacked out shared cope. Iarantine

376
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 3: because the parents want to be with the child. Thank god,

377
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 3: they want to be with the child. Well one of

378
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 3: them just doesn't take off for California and leave the

379
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Speaker 3: other parent with the child to raise on their own.

380
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 3: I don't know. When I'm looking at her. And aside

381
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Speaker 3: from her, she's fifteen. The twenty year old man that

382
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 3: was conspiring with her online what a.

383
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:47,400
Speaker 2: Freak, right, And somehow they connected, somehow they found each other.

384
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 2: And then he's telling her, Hey, I'm going to get

385
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Speaker 2: a gun and I'm going to go do a mass

386
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 2: shooting at a government building. Same time, she's getting a

387
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 2: gun from somewhere we don't know from where yet, and

388
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:02,120
Speaker 2: she goes to her school of only four hundred kids.

389
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,919
Speaker 2: I mean, what a tiny environment. Everybody had to know

390
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,399
Speaker 2: each other. And then she decides I'm gonna kill however

391
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 2: many I can kill. She had two weapons with her

392
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 2: and then took her own life. In that same incident, Cheryl,

393
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 2: I can't.

394
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 3: Believe he's mad. It through an entire crime round up

395
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 3: and talked about Eric Rudolf and I even threw out

396
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 3: the bait bab he said his name was. And he

397
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 3: didn't tell Rudolph story, not about him in his scraggly

398
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 3: hair and a stinky self and eating nuts and berries. Nothing.

399
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 2: Well, you know, there were a lot of people that

400
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 2: thought he was good looking too.

401
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 3: I never thought he was good looking.

402
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:39,679
Speaker 2: There was a lot of people that thought he was

403
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 2: especially the composite that Marla Lawson did. They thought he

404
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:47,360
Speaker 2: was a good looking kid. The problem is, again you've

405
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 2: got somebody that is mentally not okay.

406
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 3: Well this did not start that up, doctor Bethany Marshall

407
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 3: and doctor Karen start don't he is not It was

408
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 3: not insane. And when you say he's not mentally okay,

409
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 3: whatever that means, but it does not rise to the

410
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,679
Speaker 3: level of insanity under the law, which means under the

411
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 3: old McNaughton rule, which is brought over from Great Britain,

412
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 3: the foundation of our common law, which means case law

413
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 3: not codified as in the Criminal Code, whether you know

414
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:24,640
Speaker 3: right or wrong at the time of nan that's all

415
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 3: it means. Not like told mom Laurie Valo, who pretended

416
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,959
Speaker 3: to get crazier and crazier as the day's passed bibles.

417
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 3: She was in jail at the time. Oh, by the way,

418
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 3: you do know she's representing herself. Now, I would pay

419
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 3: money to watch this, but I don't have time to

420
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 3: go and watch that trial. But yes, she is going

421
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 3: to represent herself.

422
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 2: I cannot wait. But I do want to make something clear.

423
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 3: It's about Eric Rudolph because I've been waiting for you to

424
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 3: jump on the Rudolph bandwagon.

425
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 2: Go ahead, but his bandwagon is relevant because there's so

426
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 2: many similarities. But I was not in any way suggestion

427
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,360
Speaker 2: he was legally insane, not all. That's the reason he ran,

428
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 2: That's the reason he hid, That's the reason he had

429
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 2: a plan to get away with it, because he absolutely

430
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 2: knew it was wrong, just like Rudolph knew it was

431
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 2: wrong and had a plan to go hide in the

432
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 2: Nandahala forest. That is part and I've said it and

433
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 2: I'm going to keep saying it. Every step you may

434
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 2: to commit a crime, you leave yourself open to make

435
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 2: a mistake. So the more steps you make, the more

436
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 2: chances we have to catch you because you're going to

437
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 2: screw up.

438
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, the more elaborate the planning and the more elaborate

439
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 3: the cover up. A nightmare is when it's a random

440
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 3: act on the spur of the moment and the person

441
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 3: just disappears. That's really hard to solve the case like that,

442
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 3: and they do happen. Hey, you know what I was

443
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 3: talking about. The federal charges, I mentioned a few. There

444
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 3: are the federal complaint, added four new federal charges, shoot

445
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 3: count secondary murderer. Oh gosh, I'm just looking the picture

446
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 3: of him right now. Oh before I outlined the federal charges,

447
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 3: you do know that he was out of street cloths

448
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 3: and looking all let me just say, well, dressed in court.

449
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 3: So he's pulling a coburger.

450
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 2: It's gonna fail. It's every bit of it's gonna fail,

451
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 2: just like these people that are saying he's the new

452
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 2: Robin Hood. Robinhood killed plenty of people. That's the reason

453
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 2: he ran in the forest in the first place. He

454
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 2: killed the sheriff. He killed at least three that I

455
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 2: can think of from the original book. They don't get it, Nancy,

456
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 2: And I'm gonna say this. You know, the whole steal

457
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 2: from the rich and give to the poor. You change

458
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 2: the word rich with any other group and it sounds disgusting.

459
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 3: The the other day, we were talking about and I

460
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 3: don't even know why, Oh it was because of me

461
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 3: and Jionie Robinhood. And someone said Robinhood never killed anyone,

462
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 3: but actually he did. He killed the foresters. He killed

463
00:26:55,359 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 3: fifteen foresters who mocked him and wouldn't pay him. Okay,

464
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 3: he killed the sheriff of nodding him. I don't know

465
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 3: who else he killed, but I know he killed those

466
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 3: that many.

467
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a punk too.

468
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 3: You know, I'm not going to get into tearing down Robinhood, Okay,

469
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 3: but because we go down that path, somebody brings up

470
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 3: Robinhood every time we talk about men ZIONI, and I'm

471
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 3: just wondering. Go with me on this. Is that what

472
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 3: they're going to do at trial? If they do that,

473
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 3: they have to admit he's the killer, because you can't

474
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 3: compare him to Robinhood if you're not admitting he's the killer.

475
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 3: So I don't know how wise that would be, but

476
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 3: I mean, the evidence may be so strong that they

477
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 3: have to. I think they're going to go with mental

478
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 3: defect and pain.

479
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 2: I do too, because the reality is we've got a video,

480
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 2: so there's not a lot they can do. Oh it

481
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 2: was a mistaken identity. Oh it wasn't him. Oh he

482
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 2: was nowhere near there. We've got him on video. So

483
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 2: they've got to come up with something. But if they

484
00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 2: do the Robinhood defense, I would welcome that. Honey, let's

485
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 2: please play that guard because not only would you have

486
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 2: to admit he's the murderer, what is it going to

487
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: leave you with as far as trying to wiggle out

488
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 2: or make some kind of deal, because I do not

489
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 2: believe that the prosecutor is going to make a deal

490
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 2: in this case. I think the people that are quiet

491
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 2: are going to hold more power. The only people you're

492
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 2: hearing from are these misinformed people that want his tattoo

493
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 2: and are saying that he's a martyr and saying he's

494
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 2: a hero, and saying he's the new Robin Hood. Those

495
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: are the only people you're hearing from. They are not

496
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 2: the majority.

497
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 3: That is the one thing I learned from Lewis Slayton.

498
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 3: I learned so much from him. My boss, my beloved boss,

499
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 3: the elected district attorney is like a grandfather of me.

500
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 3: Never speak to the press. Never and when I would,

501
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 3: as a prosecutor, speak when I would be caught. Let's

502
00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 3: say the same thing. I believe the jury will render

503
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 3: a verdict that speaks the truth. Something along those lines.

504
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 3: Have you ever noticed baseball players always say the same thing, Well,

505
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 3: we're gonna give it all we've god, you know it's

506
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 3: going to be tough. They say the same thing every

507
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 3: time I do the same thing, because it's a no

508
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 3: when if you start talking about your case, and you're right.

509
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 3: The Feds and the prosecutors have said very very little, as.

510
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 2: They should, but I think when they do speak, it's

511
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 2: going to be powerful.

512
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 3: So question to you, what are you doing for Christmas?

513
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 2: Oh? I had just about ready believed or not. Our

514
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 2: family we do a huge party Christmas Eve, that's the

515
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 2: tradition that our family has. And then Christmas Morning, of course,

516
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 2: Santa comes for all the children, and then we go

517
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 2: to my sister Charlene's and then we go to my

518
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 2: mother in laws, so we'll be stacked up. How about y'all,

519
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:58,719
Speaker 2: you're just gonna have a hoot, Nanny we do you.

520
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 3: Traditionally, the Christmas the Saturday before Christmas, whatever Saturday that

521
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 3: may be, and we have it here and we put

522
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 3: on a big and dig and we cook it all ourselves.

523
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 3: This year we've cooked all different sort of things. But

524
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 3: this year, David, my beloved, is going to stay up

525
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 3: all night smoking butt. And he's in a panic because

526
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 3: he doesn't have enough butt, so he kiss he's going

527
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 3: all over town kying to find Boston butts. Okay, and

528
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 3: then we do a barbecue sauce that I can cont

529
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 3: then let's see what. Then we have traditional size, probably

530
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 3: sauted green beans. David's got a thing about coleslaw blah

531
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 3: blah blah blah. Okay. Then the Graces get together on

532
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 3: Christmas Eve and normally I make turkey, but the Greases

533
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 3: have req did Boston butt. So we're going to do

534
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 3: the whole thing the whole night before Christmas Eve Eve.

535
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 3: It stept that night too, smoking Boston butts for the

536
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 3: Grace bunch. And then there's Christmas and then there's a

537
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 3: Christmas Eve pageant at the church where the twins don't

538
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 3: know it yet, but they're act Tollites because you know,

539
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,719
Speaker 3: Lucy does not like anything to do with being in

540
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,239
Speaker 3: public or speaking in public, she says, very shy. So

541
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 3: what we've learned is we have to tell them at

542
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 3: the last minute. Like I pull up to the church

543
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 3: in the swank mobile, the man of them, I opened

544
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 3: the door. I let my window down about half an inch,

545
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 3: and if she gets out, the door shuts and I'm locking. Oh,

546
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 3: by the way, you're an actolyte, and I drive off.

547
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 3: If we don't do it that way for a whole

548
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 3: week or so, it will go.

549
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 2: I don't want to do it.

550
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 3: I don't want to be in front of everybody, blah

551
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 3: blah blah. So that's we've learned. That's the best way

552
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 3: to do it. So I don't tell unless she listens

553
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 3: to crime around, and she won't know until about five

554
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 3: minutes before they come to her with that big long

555
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 3: robe and the rope they tire.

556
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 2: That's so adorable.

557
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 3: Don David's fine with it. And he's got his big

558
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 3: long legs hanging out at the bottom because there's not

559
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 3: no robe long enough for hell.

560
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 2: Hey, how about that jump ball the other night? He

561
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 2: was a foot in a mouse towering over the opponent,

562
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 2: and I.

563
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 3: Loved I loved that. Pet Tromas didn't get it was

564
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 3: part of a video and I had to use all

565
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 3: my technical prowess to steal the video get a still

566
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 3: spot out of that. Oh, he loves basketball so much.

567
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 3: So that's what I've got going on. And of course

568
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 3: my mom is here. I wish my sister and her

569
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 3: family could be here from California, but all of her

570
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 3: children are coming to her in California. My brother is

571
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 3: in this neck of the woods, so I hope I

572
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 3: get to see them. But I'll see my nephew and

573
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 3: his wife and their children and the lunches of a

574
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 3: whole bunch of relatives. So I'm looking forward to that.

575
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 3: Do you know, in all the years I have known David,

576
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 3: I never had a single, not one crossword with either

577
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 3: his mother or father, or sister or brother either one.

578
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 2: Can you believe it?

579
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I fell on a pot of honey. I sure did.

580
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 3: And then I think about I think about like the

581
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 3: Kentucky moms talk about an evil mother in law, whoa

582
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 3: and it happens a lot. I thought it was a rarity.

583
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 3: It's not where mother in law's killed the daughter in

584
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 3: law and vice versa.

585
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 2: It's inside the Kentucky mom. That's how I knew She

586
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 2: did it because when they said we were going to

587
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 2: meet to shame the children, Because if she hadn't done it,

588
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 2: she'd have been the first one telling God and country

589
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 2: this piece of crab didn't show up. You know, she

590
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: ain't no good, she's no kind of mama. When she

591
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 2: didn't do that, she was my single focus.

592
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 3: Don't you just miss those days?

593
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 2: Do it? Riding around the car together, Yes, every freaking day.

594
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 3: But now children, So that's somewhat of a consolation prize.

595
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 2: Okay, I want or not.

596
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 3: We're married, Christmas, I love you.

597
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 2: Merry Christmas. I love you too, Sugar,