Speaker 1: What do you do when life doesn't go according to
Speaker 1: plan that moment you lose a job, or a loved one,
Speaker 1: or even a piece of yourself. I'm Brookshields and this
Speaker 1: is now What a podcast about pivotal moments as told
Speaker 1: by people.
Speaker 2: Who lived them.
Speaker 1: Each week, I sit down with a guest to talk
Speaker 1: about the times they were knocked off course and what
Speaker 1: they did to move forward. Some stories are funny, others
Speaker 1: are gut wrenching, but all are unapologetically human and remind
Speaker 1: us that every success and every setback is accompanied by
Speaker 1: a choice, and that choice answers one question, now.
Speaker 3: What.
Speaker 1: Did you ever have any idols or icons that you
Speaker 1: looked up to, either beauty wise, talent wise.
Speaker 4: No, just people that I love, like crushes like the
Speaker 4: Matt Deale Ends of the World and the Andrew McCarthy's
Speaker 4: and to me later on, to me Moore, she really,
Speaker 4: I really did, Like I thought she was amazing.
Speaker 3: I did too and do later on like.
Speaker 1: That Era that was like she was a god to me,
Speaker 1: Like when she shaved her head, I was like, there
Speaker 1: is a there is a god for me.
Speaker 4: It was more around about last night and like I say,
Speaker 4: it almost fire. I just thought, she's such a cool
Speaker 4: actress and she has just such this great life, and
Speaker 4: she's a rob low in this movie and that like that,
Speaker 4: that's why that that documentary that's coming out, The Brat
Speaker 4: Pack is going to be so amazing because it's such
Speaker 4: an interesting time in our lives. And they were the
Speaker 4: kids that were like that got it and then it
Speaker 4: later it was like nine oh two, one oh.
Speaker 1: Hello, listeners, did you miss me? I really hope you
Speaker 1: missed me. I took some time off to shoot a
Speaker 1: movie in Thailand, and while it was an absolute blast,
Speaker 1: I'm really excited to be back home in New York
Speaker 1: and back in front of the mic, ready to share
Speaker 1: with you all. Today's guest is a great one. Bethany Frankel.
Speaker 1: She is a widely successful entrepreneur, a New York Times
Speaker 1: bestselling author and og of the Real Housewives franchise, a podcaster,
Speaker 1: a beauty influencer, and most importantly, a mom to a
Speaker 1: beautiful teenage girl. We met through mutual friends, and I've
Speaker 1: watched in awe as she moves flawlessly from one venture
Speaker 1: to another. Bethany is funny, She's resilient, and she's so
Speaker 1: open about her life. And the many lessons that she's
Speaker 1: learned along the way. I loved having her on the
Speaker 1: show and left our conversation inspired by her hustle and
Speaker 1: her passion to try something new. So, without further ado,
Speaker 1: here is Bethany Frankel.
Speaker 3: Hi, Hi, how's it going.
Speaker 2: It's going? Well, it really, really really is. It's just
Speaker 2: a lot.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I am so happy to have you on the show.
Speaker 2: I feel like I am so busy.
Speaker 1: But then I look at you and I think, oh god,
Speaker 1: I don't know how you keep it all together.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I think I like, I had a sort of wanting
Speaker 4: to retire, kind of like doing less, and I was,
Speaker 4: and then now it's a little busier.
Speaker 3: But I don't like to be overtly busy.
Speaker 4: I don't like define happiness by like the calendar being full.
Speaker 3: I don't define that as misery.
Speaker 2: I agree. So what do you like in particular? Do
Speaker 2: you like vacation? Do you like a balance?
Speaker 4: You know, I'm the problem is it's either boredom and nothing,
Speaker 4: like I'm sitting around in pajamas and never leaving the house,
Speaker 4: or a day like yesterday where I'm doing back to
Speaker 4: back interviews and stacking and feel like I was abused
Speaker 4: by the end of the day. So it's not there's
Speaker 4: not It's hard to find a balance because I'm not
Speaker 4: a person that really I don't like shop or lunch
Speaker 4: as an activity, so I'm always just in pajamas and
Speaker 4: so I kind of do everything's whatever activity I do
Speaker 4: with my daughter.
Speaker 3: So it's I'm kind of boring.
Speaker 2: And your daughter is thirteen.
Speaker 3: Yes, yep, she's thirteen.
Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about the joy of a
Speaker 1: thirteen year old girl.
Speaker 4: Honestly, I feel like I'm supposed to really complain about
Speaker 4: this crazy time. She's pretty I don't know, she's pretty easy,
Speaker 4: and it's weird because she's thirteen and everyone's saying it's
Speaker 4: this crazy time, and people kept talking about tween and
Speaker 4: tween and tween.
Speaker 1: I think it hits at a different time. I got
Speaker 1: one of mine hit then and the other one didn't,
Speaker 1: and then just hit later.
Speaker 2: It's like I feel I think my theory is.
Speaker 1: That they they have to find reasons to hate us
Speaker 1: to justify becoming independent because there are babies. They really
Speaker 1: don't technically want to leave us, especially if they don't
Speaker 1: really hate us.
Speaker 4: Right, I get Yeah, I mean, I maybe I'll find
Speaker 4: out later. I mean, we definitely have our moments, but
Speaker 4: I don't know. I kind of like snap back on
Speaker 4: the leash. I don't really allow for a lot of
Speaker 4: complaining if it's not really grounded something. But she's gotten
Speaker 4: really good at using her voice and expressing herself because
Speaker 4: we had a really challenging time through this extraordinary, horrible divorce,
Speaker 4: and she learned how to just really understand that you
Speaker 4: should if something's bothering you or youre upset with something,
Speaker 4: you should express it, whether it's to me, whether it's
Speaker 4: to her friends. And she's very good at that, so
Speaker 4: she's not stifling a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2: Do you see similarities in the two of you of
Speaker 2: when you were that age?
Speaker 4: I don't remember being that age at all. I really
Speaker 4: don't remember anything. I was very adult, very young. I
Speaker 4: was going into night club I mean, so were you.
Speaker 4: I was going into nightclubs, you know, like the Palladium
Speaker 4: and the Tunnel at fourteen. So I can't even believe
Speaker 4: that they are little kids. And they are a little kids.
Speaker 4: So I don't understand how I was and a little kid.
Speaker 4: I don't because it's not about who taught you, like
Speaker 4: it's like, what did I look like?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I just don't understand how I was doing adult things
Speaker 4: at that age when I look at her.
Speaker 1: I mean, you've spoken about this, so I'm not saying
Speaker 1: anything that you haven't already said. But it was far
Speaker 1: as how you grew up. You said that it was
Speaker 1: a tough childhood. Your parents divorced right when you were
Speaker 1: really young. Yes, and because your dad was he was
Speaker 1: a famous horse trainer, and that mean you had to
Speaker 1: move around a lot. Yes, how did your mom? Did
Speaker 1: your mom just like give you such free rein or yeah?
Speaker 4: I mean I just read that's such a long conversation.
Speaker 4: That's just growing up at the racetrack and growing up
Speaker 4: in a very fast life and a lot of substance
Speaker 4: abuse and just not a child you know, physical abuse,
Speaker 4: a lot of cop calling and crazy stuff, so not
Speaker 4: a lot of childhood. They're just like dealing with stuff
Speaker 4: that adults were dealing with.
Speaker 2: How do you think that shaped you?
Speaker 3: I don't know specifically.
Speaker 4: I know that I was just always like alert and
Speaker 4: analytical and a wreck in my house. That there's but
Speaker 4: I just you don't know any different.
Speaker 1: There was just well, you don't know what to expect
Speaker 1: when you're living in a house that has alcoholism or
Speaker 1: any type of substance abuse.
Speaker 4: You eating disorder, bolimia, alcoholism, drugs, like I kind of
Speaker 4: had it all gambling, It was all like it was
Speaker 4: I lived in a crazy house. But it wasn't it
Speaker 4: was fun house kind of it was action. I don't
Speaker 4: even know to say it was an action house. It
Speaker 4: was a lot going on.
Speaker 3: There was a lot of moving.
Speaker 4: They were either just we had only a card table
Speaker 4: in the house or six cars in the driveway.
Speaker 1: My mother used to bring in people. I'd be like,
Speaker 1: who's the that isn't that the kid from the gas station?
Speaker 1: And she'd be like, yeah, he needs a place to say.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well I had.
Speaker 4: We had a lot of stragglers, but ours were like
Speaker 4: gamblers and like bookies, bookmakers and like jockeys agents.
Speaker 3: It was a lot of men and there was a lot.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of like degenerates living in my house.
Speaker 1: How did you protect yourself against the from them?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't.
Speaker 4: I'm I think it's why I am the way I
Speaker 4: am now. I'm extremely tough. That's why, don't you know?
Speaker 4: I I'm beyond resilient. And tough and like I could,
Speaker 4: there's not much I can't deal with and so I'm
Speaker 4: just used to that.
Speaker 3: I'm used to that survival mode. Yeah, it's fucked up.
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 4: I grew up in a very, very fucked up environement.
Speaker 4: I like, I try to think about it, and I'm like,
Speaker 4: that's insane, Like it just it's not even like woe
Speaker 4: is me because I am so tough, so it doesn't matter,
Speaker 4: like who cares? But it's it's and it's not a
Speaker 4: shield I'm covering up or anything. I definitely am emotional
Speaker 4: sometimes I'm just feeling emotional about it right now. But
Speaker 4: I don't think about it that often, not because I've
Speaker 4: blocked it out.
Speaker 3: I just it's so long ago.
Speaker 4: Just it's just it's, you know, I grew up in
Speaker 4: a nasty, nasty house.
Speaker 1: I've fet so hard for a child without a sibling. Yes,
Speaker 1: it makes you tough, and you know, I don't know
Speaker 1: if you get sick of being called a survivor, but
Speaker 1: I'm always called a survivor. And when I think about
Speaker 1: how many different ways my life could have gone and
Speaker 1: why I didn't become a complete fuck up or self destruct,
Speaker 1: I don't know why or how was there. I just
Speaker 1: am curious for you if there was a moment in
Speaker 1: your life that you think you see could have gone
Speaker 1: a very very different way.
Speaker 3: I think I was very analytic. I'm I'm.
Speaker 4: I was always alone and I was always thinking. I
Speaker 4: just remember always being analytical and trying to analyze it
Speaker 4: because no one was telling me anything, and I had
Speaker 4: no guidance and I didn't have any role models, and
Speaker 4: so I was always working things out on my own.
Speaker 4: And I see my see that in myself now. I'm
Speaker 4: always working things out of my own and playing chess
Speaker 4: in my head and figuring out how it's going to
Speaker 4: happen and fix it, and and often do. I don't
Speaker 4: really see any kind of barriers. And I do think
Speaker 4: about like it's it's a miracle that I was not
Speaker 4: a drug addict or things like that. But I'm always
Speaker 4: a person who's needed to be in control.
Speaker 1: Did you have best friends, like did you have best,
Speaker 1: best loyal friends?
Speaker 4: I had different I since high school, yes, but as
Speaker 4: a child child, yes, different.
Speaker 3: People along the way.
Speaker 4: But we I went to thirteen school, so I was
Speaker 4: never in this school two years in a row.
Speaker 2: And was that because you moved Why why was that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, because my step we moved. We moved a lot.
Speaker 3: We moved a lot lot, like from the city aso.
Speaker 2: Far as we're running away from something or.
Speaker 4: In one case my stepfather said that the mafia was
Speaker 4: after us. In another case it was like moving on up.
Speaker 4: It's the same thing with the card table and the
Speaker 4: six cars in the driveway. It was just like a
Speaker 4: very it's a racetrack lifestyle. You have to like understand
Speaker 4: it to know it. But anybody who's listening, who knows
Speaker 4: anybody who grew up around the race truck, it's just
Speaker 4: this like bizarre, dysfunctional action gambling highs and lows lifestyle.
Speaker 1: My mother just used to do it at the Delhi.
Speaker 1: We only like did our picks through the Delhi.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, no, Like I was going to Vegas at
Speaker 4: thirteen at the craps tables. And because my stepfather, who
Speaker 4: was a horse trainer, his uncle was Don Rickles manager.
Speaker 4: So we'd all go for three weeks to Vegas and gamble,
Speaker 4: and then we'd go to Saratoga this summer to the
Speaker 4: racetrack and I didn't go to camp or anything.
Speaker 3: I would sit at the jockeys room and.
Speaker 1: That kind of where gambling is involved. How did did
Speaker 1: that teach you anything about business?
Speaker 4: I would say just the racetrack taught me so much
Speaker 4: about just street smarts and competition.
Speaker 3: Winning.
Speaker 4: There's no you know, nobody cares who came second in
Speaker 4: the Kentucky Derby. Although it's such an incredible accomplishment just
Speaker 4: to get to the Kentucky Derby, it doesn't it's a touching.
Speaker 3: Story if you lose by a nose.
Speaker 4: So just winning, just just winning and competition and action
Speaker 4: and highs and lows and and upstairs downstairs, you know,
Speaker 4: like the racetrack is an amazing place where billionaires and.
Speaker 3: Uh hot, I was a hot walker.
Speaker 4: That's the person who cools the horses off in the morning,
Speaker 4: you know, walking them around the shed. But billionaires and
Speaker 4: grooms of horses interact. You know, it's a down n
Speaker 4: abby type of upstairs downstairs thing. So I'm kind of
Speaker 4: great in any situation. I can inter act with anyone
Speaker 4: and do.
Speaker 3: And just good life skills.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: It's it's a world, it's an environment, and it's pretty tough.
Speaker 1: What about instincts do you think it because I don't
Speaker 1: with gambling or gamble is where do instincts play a
Speaker 1: role in gambling. Is there such a thing?
Speaker 4: I think it's more the instincts are more about being
Speaker 4: so heightened from all the earlier childhood stuff. If you
Speaker 4: like our people, there are there are studies about people.
Speaker 4: People who are children of addicts or dysfunction or abuse
Speaker 4: pick up on so many more things in other people
Speaker 4: than just people who had normal lives, because it's these
Speaker 4: not just triggers, but it's just it's this noise inside
Speaker 4: of you. It's just something that you just can You
Speaker 4: can just feel. You can feel when someone's jealous, when
Speaker 4: they don't do anything, when they're not saying anything, when
Speaker 4: they're just you just can feel when they're jealous, or
Speaker 4: when they're competitive, or when they're tricky or not trust worthy,
Speaker 4: or have like eating issues, or you could just feel
Speaker 4: these things because you grew up around all these triggers,
Speaker 4: so you just kind of can feel addiction, you can
Speaker 4: feel someone else's stuff.
Speaker 2: I think I was an adult so very early.
Speaker 1: Don't resent it, never poor me, don't have a pity
Speaker 1: moment in my life.
Speaker 2: I don't. I think it made me sharper.
Speaker 1: We were definitely bohemian, and just one minute we were
Speaker 1: here in the next minute, we were there, and my mother,
Speaker 1: would you know, it got to the point where she
Speaker 1: would just pick up jobs for me by meeting some
Speaker 1: random person, and you just had to go along with it.
Speaker 4: We just had different worries and different growing up too.
Speaker 4: The kids are worried about other things, like it seems
Speaker 4: really big to them. The stuff that happens at school,
Speaker 4: like homework is overwhelming.
Speaker 3: And daunting for them.
Speaker 4: So maybe I didn't care that much about Homer, but
Speaker 4: they think it's such so stressful when you know most
Speaker 4: of them are going to end up being fine if
Speaker 4: they don't pass that one test, but they're stressed out
Speaker 4: about so many things. So it's just different types of stress.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 1: I called this show now What because it's about those
Speaker 1: pivotal moments in people's lives, and you've had I'm sure many,
Speaker 1: and I usually wait for this question at the end,
Speaker 1: but there's so many of those moments that I believe
Speaker 1: you must have had. Is there one that sticks out.
Speaker 4: Like as a positive? This is amazing kind of moment,
Speaker 4: Like any.
Speaker 1: Kind, there are positives, there are negatives, there are scary ones,
Speaker 1: there are all there's no where you just sort of
Speaker 1: said Okay, now what do I do?
Speaker 4: Oh, I mean, I have a it just popped in.
Speaker 4: Two things popped into my head, and one was when
Speaker 4: I didn't get to be on the Apprentice Donald Trumps
Speaker 4: season two because the regular person's Apprentice, because I was broken.
Speaker 4: I just wanted some help to I was in my
Speaker 4: thirties too, to like get a job and be something,
Speaker 4: because no one is really ever going to take care
Speaker 4: of me. And I wasn't anywhere and I wasn't successful,
Speaker 4: I had no money, and I was a mayor. I
Speaker 4: just like so that was a real blow to not
Speaker 4: get it. But I've always been a person that just
Speaker 4: brushes myself off and picks myself up and just keeps going,
Speaker 4: even though I don't know which direction and didn't know
Speaker 4: that that.
Speaker 3: Still was young and all that.
Speaker 4: That was one and the other one was I don't
Speaker 4: know that I actually felt this then, but I thought
Speaker 4: of it when you just said it was when I
Speaker 4: was on the cover of Forbes magazine, because that was
Speaker 4: insane and crazy and ridiculous, like that's a ridiculous thing
Speaker 4: that happened to me. That's insane, and by the way,
Speaker 4: that's held up like ill. I will tell anybody who
Speaker 4: would ask, like, that's like my sort of claim to fame.
Speaker 2: But those are two very, very different.
Speaker 1: Well I would say that I don't think, yeah, one
Speaker 1: hit wonder is not what comes to mind when I
Speaker 1: think that.
Speaker 2: But those are two.
Speaker 1: Incredibly polarized experiences.
Speaker 2: Yes, how did you interpret them? What did you did?
Speaker 2: You just laugh at it?
Speaker 4: I guess one is the result of the I mean
Speaker 4: one was like, this was gonna be my chance and
Speaker 4: I was going to get a job. I just wanted
Speaker 4: a job the first time. I just wanted a job
Speaker 4: that was consistent that and to prove that I could
Speaker 4: get there, because I bet somebody in a restaurant someone
Speaker 4: said you would never get on that show. You might,
Speaker 4: you know, I will get on that show or something.
Speaker 4: And I said, you mark my words, I'll get on
Speaker 4: that show. And I didn't even know how to get
Speaker 4: on a show or what that entailed. And I didn't
Speaker 4: have a video camera nor know how to use one
Speaker 4: or anything so that. But I just wanted that job,
Speaker 4: and I wanted that competition, and I was excited by that.
Speaker 4: And I went through this whole process of a week
Speaker 4: of psychological testing and emotional testing and sequestering and it
Speaker 4: was brutal week of being alone.
Speaker 3: And then I didn't get it.
Speaker 2: Did you do that on your own accord or they
Speaker 2: set that up?
Speaker 3: No, they do.
Speaker 4: It's this whole thing that no one ever talks about.
Speaker 4: I don't know why they don't talk about the process.
Speaker 4: It's like a military thing. You go to the Double
Speaker 4: Tree Hotel in Santa Monica for one week, and every
Speaker 4: day it's like emotional psychological test. You're not allowed to
Speaker 4: talk to another human being. You're in your your own
Speaker 4: room alone and you can all go downstairs for fifteen
Speaker 4: minutes to go get lunch, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, but
Speaker 4: you cannot make eye contact. You can't talk to anyone
Speaker 4: because they could be on the show with you. And
Speaker 4: you do this and some people start getting sent on
Speaker 4: the second and third day. If you've made it the
Speaker 4: whole week, you've made it. So I made it the
Speaker 4: whole week, and they made me an alternate. They picked
Speaker 4: eighteen people. I was the nineteen. So I was torture
Speaker 4: because I was there the whole week thinking I was
Speaker 4: getting it, dreaming, begging, secreting, like you know, manifesting, crying,
Speaker 4: I'm broke, like I need it, like torturing myself because
Speaker 4: I'm so obsessive and can't go anywhere, can't do anything.
Speaker 4: And then at the end of the week, I didn't
Speaker 4: get it.
Speaker 3: So that was a low.
Speaker 4: And everybody always pretends that they just landed on these shows,
Speaker 4: like it just happened. You just fell off of an
Speaker 4: apprentice tree, when it's so intense.
Speaker 2: How did you not become bitter?
Speaker 3: Because I'm not like that.
Speaker 4: I'm just like I got banged up and I put
Speaker 4: the band aids on and then that was it. And
Speaker 4: then I went to the Kentucky Derby that year actually
Speaker 4: and like drank and had fun and finaggled and figured
Speaker 4: out like how to afford to go there and stay
Speaker 4: in a hotel room with a bunch of different people,
Speaker 4: And then I ended up getting onto the Martha Stewart
Speaker 4: Apprentice of Mark Burnett, and I took another whole week
Speaker 4: and got to I.
Speaker 3: Mean, all I had was weeks.
Speaker 4: I was broke, and it was actually a place where
Speaker 4: you're being fed and it's free for the week, because
Speaker 4: I was totally broke.
Speaker 3: But then that week I nailed it.
Speaker 1: Was that the start of financial and business success.
Speaker 4: The very that was the very start that was like
Speaker 4: a kernel. That was not really the start, that was
Speaker 4: fool's gold because I didn't I was the runner up,
Speaker 4: and so then I was like just still broke, and
Speaker 4: like that show was a failure. And so now like
Speaker 4: you think you're like a little something, but nobody else
Speaker 4: thinks that because no one saw I mean eleven million
Speaker 4: people saw it, but now that now it was the
Speaker 4: equivalent of five hundred thousand people seeing it. That was
Speaker 4: a failure back then on network television. But it was
Speaker 4: enough to like get me to try to jam it
Speaker 4: down people's throats that I was a natural food chef.
Speaker 4: I'd been on the show, and could I do like
Speaker 4: this little cute segment on the Today Show or in
Speaker 4: Okay magazine or something. So it was like this dry
Speaker 4: sponge was trying to like squeeze any kind of moisture out.
Speaker 1: Of Did you did you always like cooking or do
Speaker 1: you went to a culinary school?
Speaker 2: Correct?
Speaker 4: I went to culinary school, and I always was interested
Speaker 4: in food and health and food and healing, and yes,
Speaker 4: cooking at like that le some level, yeah, but not
Speaker 4: like iron chef level, and having living my life in
Speaker 4: like scrubs, I mean scrubs in chef whites and like
Speaker 4: meissan plas and onions and living in the food and
Speaker 4: the chaos of a kitchen. That's not my personality.
Speaker 1: It's it's so when I was doing my research and
Speaker 1: you've had so many, so many different professional jobs and
Speaker 1: you just kept going forward. But part of business and
Speaker 1: you're such an extraordinary I think instincts. You know, you
Speaker 1: have such a good sense for what to promote.
Speaker 4: What why does everybody think this about me? Like, I
Speaker 4: know that people know about skinny girl and all that stuff,
Speaker 4: but I'm not even fishing for co I literally want
Speaker 4: to know because you keep saying and a lot of
Speaker 4: people say this to me. I'm like, I have a business,
Speaker 4: Like I have a lot of different things going on,
Speaker 4: and yes I'm successful, but like, why does everybody think that,
Speaker 4: like I'm such this like business gangster?
Speaker 1: I don't, I think, but I think part of it's
Speaker 1: true because I think part of business gangsterdom one of
Speaker 1: the things that's very important is knowing when to walk away.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, but that's a huge.
Speaker 1: Skill and you don't you can't teach that to somebody.
Speaker 1: So I think that there are things that are that
Speaker 1: are instinctual, and I do think to be able to
Speaker 1: create brands, to be in tune to the zeitgeist or
Speaker 1: what your brand is or why it's registering with people.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's huge.
Speaker 1: But knowing when to walk away when I mean, you
Speaker 1: did it famously more than once.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that just takes balls. I think, you know
Speaker 2: how did you know?
Speaker 3: Well? It's funny.
Speaker 4: It's it's the it's the all roads lead to Rome,
Speaker 4: or the two right roads diverged in it would either
Speaker 4: one would be a different road, and they'd be equally.
Speaker 4: You know, if I stayed on the Housewives, I'd be
Speaker 4: a little bit more of a joke and a little
Speaker 4: less taken seriously. But I'd turn that into something else
Speaker 4: and I'd be the most successful clown over there and
Speaker 4: over here. But I just I do know what to do.
Speaker 4: I know how to play chess. I understand what the
Speaker 4: moves are. I can see them like that girl in
Speaker 4: that movie on the ceiling, like I know what the
Speaker 4: moves are five steps ahead, and nobody around me even
Speaker 4: understands what I'm doing.
Speaker 1: It baffles me, and my daughters have said to me,
Speaker 1: why can't you be more like Bethany Mom Sash, She's TikTok, TikTok,
Speaker 1: the whole thing, Like you've mastered it, and you've you've
Speaker 1: become a rather like a beauty influencer, and you've made
Speaker 1: it so accessible to all ages. What's the behind the
Speaker 1: scenes like of that.
Speaker 4: It's complete, It's complete bullshit. So it's total bullshit, but everything,
Speaker 4: so many things are bullshit, and they're just wrapped in
Speaker 4: a non bullshit bo if it's wrapped up in a
Speaker 4: filter and a brand deal and an influencer who is
Speaker 4: doing a commercial twenty four hours a day, which is
Speaker 4: frightening for our youth because I'm influenced and I know
Speaker 4: how this all gets made and I know what it is,
Speaker 4: and I'm a marketing expert, like I can't even say
Speaker 4: any other word, and I'm sitting here wanting to get
Speaker 4: sucked in and buy it.
Speaker 3: So I was like, is it? What is it?
Speaker 2: Is there an endgame to it?
Speaker 4: No? I never had no. It was just a natural curiosity.
Speaker 4: I wanted to learn how to do my own makeup,
Speaker 4: no problem. And then I was watching I was like,
Speaker 4: I want to be I want that glow and I
Speaker 4: want that snatch and I want that blur and I
Speaker 4: want to buy that and buy it now, and buy
Speaker 4: it now by. And then I bought it now and
Speaker 4: I was like, this is the same.
Speaker 3: Shit we've had forever.
Speaker 4: And I went to the drug store and compared it
Speaker 4: to something that's some makeup artist left or that some
Speaker 4: brand sent, you know, some fancy thing, and it's the
Speaker 4: same shit. So I had no idea, and I started
Speaker 4: just saying, this is this is garbage. I know, this
Speaker 4: is garbage, this is a this was Gucci, this is crap,
Speaker 4: this is Shanellis's crap, and this is Shanellis is good
Speaker 4: and this is why I sell it's crap, and this
Speaker 4: is why I sell it's good.
Speaker 3: And it was just the truth. It was nothing. I
Speaker 3: had no goal, and everyone.
Speaker 4: Was like speculating and she's doing a line and it
Speaker 4: all had to be so sinister, and it wasn't. It
Speaker 4: was necessary to talk about women that want to get
Speaker 4: the hell out the door in ten minutes and that
Speaker 4: they're being influenced and they think this is real.
Speaker 1: But also, do you know the significance of the younger
Speaker 1: that this has on the younger demographic. To see a
Speaker 1: woman in her fifties testing products and talking about it,
Speaker 1: it normalizes it to me, you know.
Speaker 4: Well, it's not just the testing, it's that they know
Speaker 4: I can afford both. So what the hell am I
Speaker 4: using the drug store thing that I really am using?
Speaker 4: If I can buy the others, if it doesn't matter
Speaker 4: to me, I can buy rimes and I could buy
Speaker 4: a coach bag.
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter. But I know.
Speaker 4: And I'm wearing an Express jumpsuit right now, and it's beautiful.
Speaker 3: It looks if it was a thousand dollars, I would
Speaker 3: believe it. It's just what it is.
Speaker 4: And I've just always been a consumer and I've been curious.
Speaker 4: But I was sucked in. And that's how powerful it is.
Speaker 4: That's what I'm trying to say. How are your daughters
Speaker 4: or my daughter, how does she stand at you ants?
Speaker 4: If I was sucked in, I'm the most savvy person
Speaker 4: you could imagine. And I was like, Oh, I want that,
Speaker 4: I want that, I want that, I want that, and.
Speaker 3: It was all it was mostly no, it was all bullshit.
Speaker 2: But you rarely see that. I'm telling you don't.
Speaker 3: Yes, sad you don't say about.
Speaker 1: Especially women who are who are in their fifties like this.
Speaker 1: It bridged the gap, and I think it's the beauty
Speaker 1: industry doesn't bridge that gap. Now, have you gotten pushback
Speaker 1: from any of those brands?
Speaker 4: I know that brands are afraid. Some brands are afraid,
Speaker 4: and some brands they don't care whether I talk bad
Speaker 4: or good. They're like watching it like a case stuff.
Speaker 4: They're watching me like Tom Hanks playing with the toys
Speaker 4: in Big saying what is she like?
Speaker 3: What she's not like?
Speaker 4: And let's listen to her because she's agnostic, you know.
Speaker 4: So they are paying attention and they you know, I've
Speaker 4: had stores, I've had major retailers call and say, how
Speaker 4: do we make this better?
Speaker 3: What do we do? What can we do?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 4: So it's been fascinating for ice maker companies, like it's
Speaker 4: been amazing. It's so mean because I'm such a consumer
Speaker 4: and I'm fascinated by products and marketing and packaging and
Speaker 4: formulas and not just in makeup and everything.
Speaker 1: I want to shift to your personal life because you've
Speaker 1: been so open about your relationships, specifically your divorce, and
Speaker 1: I'm curious about that because I've also been divorced and
Speaker 1: walked away from a relationship. When did you know it
Speaker 1: was time to leave?
Speaker 4: Don't I don't know that I was ever really in
Speaker 4: my relationship. If I really think about it, you sort
Speaker 4: of steps happen. You're moving forward, you're doing things, you're
Speaker 4: making decisions, and like the game was moving too fast.
Speaker 4: The game was moving too fast sometimes, you know it
Speaker 4: was where I was in my I felt the waves
Speaker 4: starting to crust in my career. And you listen to
Speaker 4: other people who are saying like that, you know, you
Speaker 4: need to be with someone who can deal with your
Speaker 4: lifestyle or can fold into what you're doing. And you know,
Speaker 4: I was excited that I was marrying a regular guy,
Speaker 4: what I thought was a regular, just person who didn't
Speaker 4: want anything, and so like that seemed interesting. And maybe
Speaker 4: I had gone through years of not feeling great about
Speaker 4: myself or not knowing where my journey would turn in
Speaker 4: a relationship. I might have been at a low. Other
Speaker 4: people said you need I've done that twice, other people
Speaker 4: telling me what I need to do, and you got
Speaker 4: to do this, and you'll never find someone like this,
Speaker 4: and no one's ever going to love you like this.
Speaker 4: And that was way back then. And then the train
Speaker 4: left the station, and then you're pregnant and you're on
Speaker 4: a show, and what would this look like? And what
Speaker 4: would this be like? And does this feel right? And
Speaker 4: convincing yourself? And who the hell knows? And maybe it
Speaker 4: was just my instincts, because I have never heard of
Speaker 4: a more horrific situation than I ended up in in
Speaker 4: my life, except for like an Ican teena situation like
Speaker 4: this's the only situation where someone's being like physically beaten
Speaker 4: or abused or made to take drugs. I've never heard
Speaker 4: of a worse situation. I was in like a Hall
Speaker 4: of fame ten year divorce on a two year It was.
Speaker 4: It was abuse. It annihilated me, It destroyed me. It
Speaker 4: was the word I used to heard about my childhood.
Speaker 4: I would watch my mother beaten with a telephone, drag
Speaker 4: down the hall, and I'd call the cops. I was
Speaker 4: going into the Michael Todd room at the playdium, where
Speaker 4: like there was cocaine everywhere at thirteen fourteen, like I
Speaker 4: did not have a normal childhood. I like would wake
Speaker 4: up to bottles all over the house and listen to
Speaker 4: throwing up all day in my house. This divorce was
Speaker 4: it was by far and there's no comparison to It
Speaker 4: was a nightmare. It was torture for a decade of
Speaker 4: my life.
Speaker 1: What part of that personal part of your life was
Speaker 1: the the most challenging to sort of see or hear
Speaker 1: being talked about in public.
Speaker 4: No, what was challenging that by any stretch of the imagination,
Speaker 4: it seemed like it would be somehow my fault because
Speaker 4: I'm the moneyed spouse, and it would have been a
Speaker 4: great quote unquote narrative, the most annoying, unpopular word right
Speaker 4: now that it's like, you know, oh, because I'm a
Speaker 4: big mogul ceo, like you know, the single dad is
Speaker 4: to raise.
Speaker 3: It like it was I was.
Speaker 4: I'm like the best mother and I always have been,
Speaker 4: and there's nobody who's ever questioned that.
Speaker 3: And I'm I so to live to use the Demi
Speaker 3: Moor thing.
Speaker 4: I knew her publicist, and I guess that we're going
Speaker 4: through a nasty divorce and like you had to keep quiet,
Speaker 4: just not say anything, and everybody would think everything was
Speaker 4: one way and like one day the truth will come
Speaker 4: to light. But it was taking a decade for the
Speaker 4: truth to come to light because the divorce wouldn't end.
Speaker 4: And I experienced every single horrendous thing any person could
Speaker 4: ever experience. I know I'm hearing about people being abused,
Speaker 4: and I'm here, like I know all the bad things
Speaker 4: that can happen in life and divorce. I'm well educated
Speaker 4: on the topic. I still don't know anyone who's ever
Speaker 4: had a divorce like I had.
Speaker 2: I am so sorry that you had to go through that.
Speaker 1: I really, I so wish that wasn't true in so
Speaker 1: many ways, and every cell in my body and I
Speaker 1: and I don't know where you got the strength to
Speaker 1: keep going.
Speaker 3: But it destroyed me. I mean, honestly speaking, it destroyed me.
Speaker 4: But but I I was capable during it to be
Speaker 4: aware and to be able to help other people.
Speaker 3: That was yet.
Speaker 4: Oh but god, that was extruci The whole thing was
Speaker 4: I can't even I'm like the memories of flooding in
Speaker 4: but to help to really not just bullshit, like I
Speaker 4: can help other people, like really be able to just
Speaker 4: like in a granular sense, help other people, like explain
Speaker 4: to them, detail by detail what to do and what
Speaker 4: not to do.
Speaker 3: So when everyone's asking, are you wedding planning?
Speaker 4: Like Paul is the most amazing person in the world,
Speaker 4: and I graduation, Yeah.
Speaker 3: But like am I wedding planning? No? I'm not.
Speaker 2: Don't you love that do you have a date?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not. We do not. Yeah, I'm not wedding planning.
Speaker 3: I've had a lot of public wedding planning and it
Speaker 3: didn't go that great.
Speaker 1: Well. I think this is all so important for your
Speaker 1: young girl to see what a strong human being and
Speaker 1: a good human being her mother is and how hard
Speaker 1: you work at everything that you do.
Speaker 3: Thank you?
Speaker 1: Or is there anything that you're looking forward to doing
Speaker 1: in the years to come?
Speaker 2: You've got a daughter growing up in business ventures? What's
Speaker 2: next for Bethany?
Speaker 4: I just like to feel a sense of peace. You know.
Speaker 4: I don't have big goals. I never have, which is hilarious,
Speaker 4: but I really don't like I just like to feel
Speaker 4: peace and feel rest and feel healthy. I'm enjoying the
Speaker 4: businesses I'm doing now because I'm I'm not like strangling them,
Speaker 4: like I'm going back into the spirits business with the
Speaker 4: Forever Young wine. But it's not like it's not like
Speaker 4: I need and need it to happen. I mean it's happening.
Speaker 4: It's a stunning wine and the most perfect brand ever.
Speaker 4: But like I did it because it was the name
Speaker 4: of a song that played at the end of the
Speaker 4: night when I was a cocktail waitress and we did
Speaker 4: Last Call. And because it's called Forever Young, which is
Speaker 4: such a spirit in and of itself, not to mention
Speaker 4: that it's an authentic provence, gorgeous wine and a gorgeous bottle.
Speaker 4: So it's like, I'm a woman who you know, wants
Speaker 4: to sip rose and not just pound cocktails.
Speaker 3: Like it reflects where I am.
Speaker 1: Well. Also, I think if you do, if you approach
Speaker 1: things without such a tight grip of what it has
Speaker 1: to be, there is a stronger flow. If you look
Speaker 1: back at your life, what would you say Your through line.
Speaker 3: Is strength and honesty.
Speaker 2: And honesty takes strength.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you have both of it, and you're a
Speaker 1: wonderful mother.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I'm going to drink your wine and I'll buy whatever.
Speaker 4: Watch my YouTube series. I actually want you to watch
Speaker 4: my YouTube series and laugh. Tell your daughters too minutes.
Speaker 4: It's like the show. It's the stupid show that you're
Speaker 4: not getting on the short, short content. And then I'm
Speaker 4: not doing on TV because I don't want to answer
Speaker 4: to suits.
Speaker 1: That was the incredible Bethany Frankel. For more from her,
Speaker 1: go listen to her podcast. Just be on the iHeartRadio
Speaker 1: app or wherever you get your shows. Now What with
Speaker 1: Burke Shields is a production of iHeartRadio. Our lead producer
Speaker 1: and wonderful showrunner is Julia Weaver. Additional research and editing
Speaker 1: by Darby Masters and Abu Zafar. Our executive producer is
Speaker 1: Christina Everett. The show is mixed by Bahid Fraser.