WEBVTT - Crypto’s Alpha Male Culture, Explained 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:06.880 This is Bloomberg Crypto Daily, Bloomberg I heard podcast and 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:10.200 I'm Mike Reagan in today for Stacy Marie Ishmaal. It's 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:28.000 Thursday January. In the days leading up to the staggering 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:30.680 collapse of f t X, a word tweets broke out 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:36.440 between two top crypto executives. Former ft X CEO Sam 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:40.080 Backman Freed and Binance CEO Chang Peng Jao or CZ, 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:43.400 as he's commonly called, are known rivals and just one 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:46.760 example of their different styles. Backmen Freed appeared eager to 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:49.800 work with the government, regulators and lawmakers, while c Z 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:54.000 not so much. But when CZ tweeted that he was 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:57.080 selling Binance his holdings of crypto tokens that were created 0:00:57.080 --> 0:00:59.400 by f t X, it sparked a run on the 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:02.760 exchange that ultimately led to the insolvency of f t X. 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:06.800 The idea that a once flushed crypto exchange where billions 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:10.600 of dollars could be taken down by a series of tweets, well, 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:13.000 it raises a lot of questions about the crypto market, 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:16.520 and it fuels the perception that the digital acid industry 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:19.160 is led by alpha males caught up in a hyper 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:22.560 masculine culture. But now that one of the most renowned 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:25.680 CEOs finds himself facing a slew of criminal charges and 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:28.959 civil actions, what's at stake for the industry and what 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:31.400 does it say about the leaders who run it or 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:34.800 the future of the crypto community at large. My colleague 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:37.759 Vildanna Hirich joins me, Now, they're not afraid to get 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:40.000 into fights, they're not afraid to be on Twitter and 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:45.559 say really outrageous things, And basically that's what we've seen 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:55.400 happen in crypto over the last ten years or so. Voltana, 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:57.920 welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me, of course, 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:02.240 so FILTONA. One thing I find fascinating is, you know, 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:06.560 if you cover regular companies, non crypto companies, you know 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:10.359 there's business wire, pr newswire, they have sort of official 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:13.320 avenues to make an announcement. Not so much in crypto. 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:16.240 It's it's basically all on Twitter. We have Twitter, Twitter, 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:18.880 which which has its pluses and its minuses, but talked 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:23.840 to mostly but talk a little bit about that idea 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:27.280 of how important Twitter is to the crypto industry and 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:30.639 how information is disseminated. It's hugely important. I always say 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:33.600 that a lot of crypto discourse happens on Twitter. So 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:36.400 you have a lot of these big personalities that I'm 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:39.080 sure we're going to be talking about who have huge 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:44.160 followings on Twitter. They're they're all day with their laser eyes, 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:46.320 although a lot of them have actually removed their laser 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:50.480 eyes as of as of late, and they're just basically 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:53.120 posting anything that comes to mind. A lot of them 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:56.240 have been known to just be tweeting all day every day. 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:59.200 I actually find a lot of ideas and great market 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:02.440 stuff on Twitter because you can find just about anything. 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:05.240 You can find these feuds that we're about to talk about, 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:07.920 but also a lot of like coverage about what's happening 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:10.120 with the market and what people are seeing because, as 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:13.360 you say, there's no central place where we can get 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:16.960 this type of information. That's what I think is so fascinating. 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:19.400 You know, a crypto project that has an announcement to 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:22.480 make oh we've got a new coin, or we're shutting 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:25.440 down for maintenance, or hey sorry but we just blew up. 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:28.919 All your money's gone. You know, Twitter is the official 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:32.320 sort of platform for them to release that news. But 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:35.000 mixed in with all that is all this sort of 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:38.960 other personal sort of bravado. You know, let's talk a 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:43.160 little bit about the way crypto power players sort of 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:45.640 communicate with each other on Twitter. It's all very nice 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:48.040 and ploy and cordial. Right, Oh, it's so nice. It's 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:52.360 like it's all rainbows and fairies and and nice words. 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:55.200 No that there's actually a lot of um. I guess 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:57.840 we can call it fighting or in fighting between some 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:00.680 of these CEOs and people who are at the helms 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:04.760 of these different crypto companies, and like I said, they 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:06.880 love to have huge followings. A lot of them do 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:10.040 have huge followings, and they sort of just build these 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:13.840 basis of supporters and followers on on Twitter who like 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:17.000 to come in the fence of some of them. But 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:19.800 I think a really good example of what you're talking 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:22.800 about is the feud that we saw between Sam Bank 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:25.599 and Freed from f t X, the former CEO of 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:29.360 f t X, and what happened with Finances c Z, 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:33.240 where for years people sort of watched them feud with 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:36.279 each other via Twitter and sort of just throw barbs 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:38.560 at each other. Where you can even just you know, 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:41.360 tweet about someone without having to tag them, and your 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:44.120 followers will know who exactly you're talking about. But they've 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:47.760 had a spat going on on Twitter, sub tweeting as 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:52.599 they say, exactly, there's a major crypto ceo who I 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:55.560 think is a fraud. I'm not to say who, but 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:57.680 but but you know who is? You know you may 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:02.599 know who you rehash are the listeners How that feud 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:05.240 sort of reached its climax and what it meant for 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:08.720 f t X, well, it meant the downfall of ft 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.039 X really not to not to give the sort of 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:16.719 the ending of the story, but both are huge names 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:20.520 within crypto. They were even before any of this happened. 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:23.960 C Z is at the helm of the largest crypto 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:26.680 exchange in the world. F t X was the largest 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:30.320 one of the largest in the US, and so to 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:32.919 have the two of them sparring was always going to 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:36.960 be drawing headlines. But basically what happened was that Finance 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:39.680 held a huge chunk I think something like two or 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:43.719 three billion dollars worth of the FTX token f t 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.680 T and what sparked all of this was c Z 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:50.160 tweeting out that he was going to be offloading that 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:54.120 investment that they were holding, and there was a lot 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:56.839 of back and forth from f t X where f 0:05:56.920 --> 0:05:59.599 t X had offered to buy it for I forget 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:04.120 what the yeah exactly. At one point at ft T 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:07.160 the token had been trading above eighty dollars I think 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:11.000 in September of last year, and for for market watchers 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:13.640 actually for people who were seeing that on Twitter, they 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:16.320 did not take that as a good sign that f 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:19.440 t X was willing to do that. And from there 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:23.080 we sort of saw this rather quick unraveling of what 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:26.120 happened with f t X, because then we had to 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:29.320 have Finance say that they were going to help take 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:33.039 ft X over a deal that actually ended up falling through, 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:35.760 which is something that the market foresaw because we saw 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.880 cryptocurrency selling off when all of this was happening. So 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:41.600 a lot of market participants and people who were watching 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:45.400 what was going on between the two parties was that 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:47.680 they just didn't have a lot of faith this was 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:52.000 actually going to play out in a good way. That 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:56.680 token ft T played such a crucial role as collateral exactly, 0:06:57.080 --> 0:06:59.880 the hedgephone that's sort of strapped to f t X 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:02.599 on me to research exactly and c Z kind of 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:07.599 you would assume nobody was doing perhaps by undermining faith 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:10.200 in that token, that it wasn't. A later tweety said 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:13.000 that it's better for a crypto project to fail early. 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:15.480 You know, he kind of was hinting that he knew 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:18.320 what was going to happen. Yeah, this is the interesting 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.840 thing because and we can think about this in a 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:24.320 bunch of different ways in terms of, you know, coin 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:27.760 Desk was the original news source of what sort of 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:30.080 helped spark some of this, and what helped spark c 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:32.680 Z saying that he was going to be off floading 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:36.680 those FTT tokens that obviously has had huge repercussions for 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:39.480 the industry that Coin Desk covers. And then the same 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:42.600 thing happening with finance, where you're just seeing these huge 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:47.160 repercussions that aren't exactly great for finance either because we 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:50.040 just have this huge loss of faith in the system, 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:55.720 reputational damages, people fleeing the market without any hopes that 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:58.120 they're going to be coming back, especially from some of 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:01.360 the retail investors. And so I think the repercussions just 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:05.120 I don't think it played out exactly as hidden. Yeah, 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:09.000 I thought they might, and we've learned so much since then. Obviously, 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:12.400 the fraud charges all, you know, the sec the CFTC 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:17.240 complaints against Sam Bagman. Freed suggests that this company was 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:19.920 a big mess. Basically, this may or may not have 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.720 happened eventually, but it tweets that sure did accelerate things, 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.960 which sure did. But I'm curious, you know, as a man, 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.320 maybe I'm not the best person to analyze sort of 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:31.880 the crypto culture because it does seem to me that 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:35.040 it's this sort of bro culture, for lack of a 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:39.760 better word, this kind of hyper masculine, alpha male culture. 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:42.600 I'm curiously, you know, as a woman covering the space, 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:45.440 interacting with with a lot of these guys, how do 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:48.360 you perceive that culture? Yeah, well it's hard for me 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:51.720 to say. Actually, maybe you are the better voice in 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:53.920 terms of being able to say what exactly is going on. 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:55.880 But you and I actually worked on a story about 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.719 this together, and one of the people we spoke with 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:02.439 called it blood sport. Basically, this is like a blood sport. 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.160 What he said was, it's it's about not just winning, 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:08.960 but vanquishing and winning at the expense of my opponents, 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:12.760 which is basically what we saw happening, where people were 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:15.360 trying to outdo each other in the process. End it 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:18.079 up also hurting themselves. Yeah, that was a great quote 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:21.120 from Peter Atwater at William and Mary. A smart guy. 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:24.720 He studies confidence and the role of confidence in finance, 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:27.679 and maybe a little too much confidence from these guys. 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:31.200 And I wonder about that idea of blood sport. You know, 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:33.960 finances are it's not like it's ever had a kind 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:36.800 and gentle reputation, right, you know, Wall Street bankers are 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:40.960 not known for getting together and singing compared to what's 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:42.959 going on in Yeah, do you said, do you sense 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.160 a big difference? It's much more aggressive in in crypto 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:49.040 for sure. The whole idea of crypto is that it's 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:54.119 anti establishment, that it's this new thing, a new innovation, 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:57.600 new technology is a new way to to pay and 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:01.360 live and new everything. Basically like a financial revolution, is 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:03.720 what a lot of crypto people will tell you. And 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:09.880 the type of people to help lead through that are young, brash, 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:12.640 they're not afraid to get into fights, they're not afraid 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:16.800 to be on Twitter and say really outrageous things. And 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:20.280 basically that's what we've seen happen in crypto over the 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:25.160 last ten years or so. If you compared traditional financial markets, 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:28.960 they're not huge companies but they're making names for themselves 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:31.760 sometimes thanks in part to what the founders are doing 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:34.360 and saying on Twitter and in the public. Yeah. I 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:37.520 keep thinking of the Hedge fund that really went after 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:42.360 do Quan and the Terraform blockchain project earlier in the year. Um, 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:45.440 they sort of on Twitter liking themselves to the Romans 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:49.199 sacking Carthage in the Punic Wars. So that blood sport 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:51.640 idea really, you know, it conjures up this image of 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:55.240 sort of gladiators, gladiators and and and there really is 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:58.240 kind of that sort of mentality at playing a lot 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:00.400 of these people involved. Yeah, I think so. You and 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:03.800 I had a quote also from Peter Adwater and he said, 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:08.000 it's the modern day gladiators, these CEOs, They're perceiving themselves 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:11.760 as disruptive warriors, is what Peter told us. Coming up 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:14.040 more of my discussion with fill Donna on what the 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:17.560 biggest crypto rivalries mean for the industry, we'll be right back. 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:31.160 I thought, I also wanted to talk a little bit 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:36.199 about sort of this image that Sam bankman Fried had cultivated. 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:40.680 Not your average sort of Wall Street buttoned up suit 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:43.679 and tie fleece, best type of guy. Was he it's 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:45.720 funny that we think of that as as buttoned up 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:51.160 and we're comparing. So he was known for sort of 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:56.079 having disheveled hair, for wearing sort of loose, baggy T shirts, 0:11:56.240 --> 0:12:00.160 flip flops shorts. When we would see him actually go 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:02.280 in front of Congress, a lot of people made a 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:05.280 big deal about him wearing a suit or just wearing 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:07.680 a button down. But then they would zoom in on 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:11.440 his shoes and the shoelaces would be all like totally 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:14.440 messed up, like he doesn't on a daily basis tie 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:17.000 his shoes and had maybe forgotten how to do it. 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:19.880 But yeah, that's that's the image he had, and now 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:22.160 we know that that's the image he was trying to cultivate. 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:25.120 That's an interesting point is that it very much fits 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:29.000 in with sort of that the counter culture outsider image 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.079 of crypto. Right, you know you do you don't want 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:34.400 to look like a banker, right? Absolutely. I remember this 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:37.800 one story when things first started falling apart for f 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:39.839 t X, I think one of the stories said something 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:43.960 like he wanted to look like he was in his 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:46.719 bean bag chair because he was very well known for 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:51.640 like not having a regular sleeping schedule. And just sleeping 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:53.840 whenever he could on his bean bag chair, like in 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.959 the office next to his computers where he was working 0:12:57.040 --> 0:13:00.840 or playing video games. Where when he had investors coming 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:04.160 in or anybody of importance coming into, you know, check 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:06.760 out the FTX offices or check out what they were doing. 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:09.400 That he wanted it to look like he was rolling 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:12.240 out of the sleeping bag chair, like that he had 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:15.160 been working so hard and out of nowhere. You sort 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:18.000 of like walk in and you catch him still like 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.240 taking a mini nap or something, and that that is 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:24.280 exactly what he wanted to be perceived as, where he 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.920 told his employees, it's actually good for me to look 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:31.000 like my hair is so dishovel. Well, I kind of 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:33.280 follow that strategy to myself, But if I slept in 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:35.319 a bean bag chair, I don't. I would need a chiropractice. 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:39.600 But your hair looks exactly like his. Yeah, at least 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:46.199 you brushed it. You brushed yours today. I'm curious how 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:49.760 you're thinking about sort of the legacy of all of this, 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:55.040 the culture of Twitter, It's future, the sort of widespread 0:13:55.080 --> 0:14:00.000 suspicion and anxiety that exists now because of what happen 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:01.600 and with that t X. It seems to me that 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:05.440 things have changed forever in this industry, that everyone's going 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:07.960 to be second guessing sort of this notion of oh, 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:11.000 here's this quirky outsider sleeping in a being back chair. 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:14.000 You think that's fair to say? And you and I 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:16.120 had a great story about this as well. If I 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:18.400 got a good stories, if I can pat us on 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:21.760 the back. What we started to see pretty much over 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:24.440 the summer, I would say, or late summer, was a 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:30.640 huge wave of people leaving CEO roles at crypto companies, 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:33.480 so founders and and people who had sort of built 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:37.000 names for themselves within this space leaving, you know, their 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:40.800 CEO roles at those companies and up types taking their 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.600 place so that buttoned up types could could take over. 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:46.320 I think we we had some really great quotes from 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:48.920 that story as well. One of them said, some founders 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:52.000 could be moving on because the industry is getting more professional, 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:53.960 and they come from an era where it was more 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:57.560 tin hat, where the crypto people were more tin hat basically, 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:01.920 and you have more traditional finance types moving in to 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:04.760 help clean up the mess. So I wonder, you know, 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:07.440 is crypto justis going to be sort of joined at 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:11.480 the hip to this kind of masculine, alpha male, tough guy, 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:13.560 sort of leader of the pack image or or do 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:15.640 you think this will change things? Is there more room 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:19.360 for sort of a more reasonable, mild manner type of 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:22.440 leader in crypto? Now it's possible. I mean, I don't know, 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:26.400 we'll see what actually happens in terms of all of 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:28.720 what we're seeing in the wake of f t x 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.360 is collapse. A lot of people are saying that we're 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:34.600 definitely going to be seeing more regulation. So if that's 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:36.880 the case, it's possible that you have sort of more 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:40.600 serious types coming in. The new CEO of f t X, 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:43.720 who I think led Enron through its troubles in the 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:49.240 early two thousand's John Jay Ray. He is building this 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:53.040 image of himself of being a super studious and serious 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:56.600 person and coming out and talking about some of the 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.800 things that he had unearthed over the last couple of 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:01.960 weeks in terms of what had been happening at f 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.280 t X. So it's possible that we do start to 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:07.280 see more people like that coming in and, like I said, 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:09.520 sort of clean up the mess. Yeah, you think he 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:13.720 sleeps in a beanbag chair? Definitely not, No, definitely not. Well, 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:16.640 thank you, Vill Donna. I think Mike you forgot the 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:20.160 most important thing about this conversation. What's up? You and 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:24.120 I host our own podcast? I forgot about forgot about that. 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:27.320 I forgot about the highlight of my week every week. Yes, 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.680 can I plug it, plug it and plug away as 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:34.000 guest hosts? Thank you so much. Soul Stacy Marie finds 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:35.960 out all out. Yeah, no, I think she would be 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:37.520 happy with this too. I think she's a fan of 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:41.080 ours as well. What goes up? What goes up? Wherever 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:44.120 you get your podcasts? Yeah, exactly. And also you can 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:46.880 find more of Bill Donna's reporting on the Bloomberg Terminal 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:49.720 and on Bloomberg dot com. For more, be sure to 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:58.440 check out our twice weekly newsletter, Bloomberg Crypto. This is 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:02.080 Bloomberg Crypto, dear podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:04.920 For more shows from I Heart Radio, visit the I 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:09.000 Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:12.359 Send us your comments, questions or suggestions for the show 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:18.720 to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net. The supervising producer of 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:22.879 Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Vergelina. Our senior producer is Janet Babin. 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:27.120 Our producers are Mohammed Farup and Sharon Barriro. Our associate 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:30.920 producers are Ty Butler and Moses on Them. Desta wonder 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:35.880 At is our engineer. Original music by Leo Sidrn. I'm 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:38.120 Stacy Marie Schmal We'll be back tomorrow.