1 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: John Slavitt is the founder of Halftime with John, the 2 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: network for men at midlife. 3 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 2: Hi, John Kelly, thank you so much for being here. 4 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 3: It's great to be here. 5 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: So, as an executive and entrepreneur in tech, you have 6 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: led multiple consumer companies from startup to scaled up, is 7 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: what I read in your bio. But it was after 8 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: your personal experience with divorce that you wanted to start 9 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: this platform for men with Halftime with John. So can 10 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: you talk us through what you uncovered during your midlife 11 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: divorce experience that made you want to start this platform. 12 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 3: You're not wasting any time. 13 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 2: I'm getting right to it, right down to the. 14 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 3: Heart of it. Well, you know, I think we actually 15 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 3: had a similar year in twenty twenty three. I was 16 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 3: looking at your Insta and looking at some of the 17 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 3: stuff that you reposted about all the change, called it 18 00:00:57,920 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 3: the KRK, screw up, be Up and the down, and 19 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 3: I had a sim experience. I went through this kind 20 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 3: of perfect storm of stuff. In twenty twenty three, my 21 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 3: father passed away after a long illness. The company of 22 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 3: which I was founding CEO, my board decided they want 23 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 3: a different CEO. We had a parting of ways. I 24 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 3: finalized my financial settlement with my ex after so many 25 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 3: years in the beginning of twenty twenty three. We'd been 26 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 3: divorced for a while, but the financial settlement, you know, 27 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 3: I got remarried. I put all of my stuff in 28 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 3: a couple devil bags and moved in with my wife, 29 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 3: who was a much better sense of style than I do. 30 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 3: She refused to allow any of the furniture from my 31 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 3: bachelor apartment to come to the place we live in. 32 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:40,960 Speaker 3: But bottom line is, I had this perfect storm of 33 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,119 Speaker 3: all of these things in life, any of which would 34 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 3: be a crisis and an opportunity. And I think that 35 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 3: caused me, you know, in my fifties to step back 36 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 3: and say okay, and my waking up every morning passionate 37 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 3: and aligned in what I'm doing and what I'm bringing 38 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 3: in the world. And the answer was no, And I 39 00:01:58,640 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 3: turned to my wife and I said, I'm going to 40 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 3: something different. And that's what gave rise to halftime with John, 41 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 3: That's what gave rise to what I'm doing now. And 42 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 3: you know, crisis in life, which often happens at midlife, 43 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 3: which is this cauldron right for growth, causes change and 44 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 3: I'm still in the middle of it. 45 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 46 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: I always say we wouldn't change without pain, though, So 47 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: I do love the idea that crisis kind of causes it, 48 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: but what can you. 49 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 2: Do with it after? So is there a way to 50 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 2: have a successful divorce? 51 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's funny you mentioned this because we 52 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 3: just pushed our latest episode of Halftime with John today, 53 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 3: So wherever you get the podcast or YouTube, my interviewee 54 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 3: is an amazing guy named Tom Sturgis. He's actually kind 55 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 3: of a legend of the music business, the world that 56 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 3: you're part of. He was the head of talent at 57 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,959 Speaker 3: you Personal Music for many years. He worked with everyone 58 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 3: from Aretha to fifty cent and he wrote a book 59 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 3: called A Good Divorce and he has lived that And 60 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,119 Speaker 3: when I interviewed him what he said when I asked 61 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 3: him the question what does it mean to have a 62 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 3: good divorce? He said, John, it's respect, generosity and kindness. 63 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 3: It's respect, generosity, and kindness. And he repeated that throughout 64 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 3: our time together. And essentially, to kind of paraphrase what 65 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 3: Tom taught me, we have to view the process with 66 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 3: our soon to be X as something that's hopefully leading 67 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 3: to a lifelong relationship that is positive, especially when there 68 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 3: are these precious children in the middle. Now I have 69 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 3: three kids and a step soon. So I have three 70 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 3: kids with my ex, ranging from ahe tent to nineteen. 71 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 3: Tom has three boys, respect, generosity, and kindness. If we 72 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 3: can get over the emotional reactivity that happens in a divorce, 73 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 3: we get over the anger, we get overcoming from the pain, 74 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 3: and have a bit of a vision for life after. 75 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 3: I think a good divorce is possible. That doesn't mean 76 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 3: it's not painful, and it doesn't mean the financial settlement 77 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 3: is not painful. 78 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: So it's not without pain that makes it a successful divorce, 79 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: which I think is so so such a good point 80 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: to make because we as humans instinctively just try to 81 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: avoid pain right when we're going through something hard. I 82 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: think the things that we deem good or bad are 83 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: is it painful or is it not? And I love 84 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: that explanation because that's like adulting and one that's like 85 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: one statement that sums up adulting to me, because adulting 86 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: is not easy, nor is it there's no lack of pain, 87 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: but it's how we step into it and how we 88 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: handle ourselves through the process. 89 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 3: I think you're right. And there's famous JFK quote and 90 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 3: I think he had this on his desk in the 91 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 3: Oval office. Lord by ocean is so vast and my 92 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 3: boat is so small at a certain point in life, 93 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 3: and of course, if you go through a separation divorce, 94 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 3: you have to point your little boat into the storm 95 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 3: and understand the only way to get through it is 96 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 3: to go through this storm. That draws on faith, It 97 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 3: draws on personal belief and the idea that you're going 98 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,799 Speaker 3: to be okay. And I think until you actually point 99 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 3: your little boat the bow of it into that storm 100 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 3: and go through it emotionally, spiritually, financially, you don't get 101 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 3: to the other side. 102 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree with that. 103 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: Well, your platform is geared towards men specifically. I mean, 104 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: obviously you're a man, so I'm assuming that had a 105 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 1: big part in why you wanted to do that. But 106 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: is there something that you recognize in men going through 107 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: this process that's different from women. 108 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 3: That's a great question. One thing I would point out 109 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 3: we're building a network for people at Midlife. Our first 110 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 3: show is from Men at Midlife because that was my experience, 111 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 3: but we'll have many hosts and many shows that will 112 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 3: launch over the next couple of years. At halftime with John, 113 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 3: I started with men because it is my personal experience. 114 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 3: One of our upcoming guests Lilah Aitken, who's the founder 115 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 3: of a company called split Fyi. It's a website to 116 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 3: help people go through divorce. She said it very well. 117 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 3: She said, what typically happens with men and women, and 118 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 3: I'm being stereotypical, is if the analogy during the conflict 119 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,119 Speaker 3: of divorces like a boxing match, when men and women 120 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 3: go to their corners, they often leverage the thing that 121 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 3: they're most comfortable with. Men sometimes leverage money and women 122 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 3: leverage the kids. Now, this is not every time, but 123 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 3: this is not a typical and that can be a difference. 124 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 3: The other thing that Lilah points out, and she went 125 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 3: through a terrible divorce. Her husband left her when she 126 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 3: was six months pregnant. She said that it's typical for 127 00:06:55,440 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 3: women on an emotional level to want to maintain emotional 128 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 3: connection with their ex while they're going through the divorce, 129 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 3: whereas men tend to emotionally compartmentalize and not want or 130 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 3: know how to do that. Now, I would argue that 131 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 3: if you're going through the trauma of separation divorce, you 132 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 3: really do need to take a pause on the emotional 133 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 3: connection with your ex. It doesn't mean you can't be kind, 134 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 3: but the expectations of the marriage do not carry through 135 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 3: emotionally to the process of divorce. So I think those 136 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 3: are a couple of the differences. Otherwise, Kelly, it's all 137 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 3: the same. I think that when people are at their worst, 138 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 3: coming from reactivity and acting out of pain and fear, 139 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 3: their behavior is negative. And what I've learned counseling so 140 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 3: many men is that fifty one percent of the battle 141 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 3: is emotional and mental sustainability and forty nine percent is 142 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 3: the tactical and practical process of getting through the divorce. 143 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 3: And this is the same for men and women. If 144 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 3: you can't find practices and support it, or a therapist 145 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 3: or an advocate to support you, the financial aspect of 146 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 3: the negotiations will be that much tougher. 147 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: I have a couple more questions I want to get 148 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: to you in a minute about that, just as far 149 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: as the moving on process goes, because that's something I've 150 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: noticed is different between men and women. But first I 151 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: want to ask you. You know, millions of people get 152 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: divorced every year, and I was reading in your bio too. 153 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: You talk a lot about how it's so super isolating 154 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: for men specifically, Why is that that time? Why is 155 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: that so isolating for a man. 156 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 3: I'm glad you brought this up. Multiple of the experts 157 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 3: that I'm talking to in the season have quoted the 158 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 3: boys don't cry stereotype. It's still alive, and I think 159 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 3: that men come out of childhood losing the vulnerability and 160 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:57,959 Speaker 3: the connectivity that vulnerability provides us with other humans. Owen Marcus, 161 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 3: who's an expert in men's mental emotional health one of 162 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 3: my early gifts, said amazingly that studies show that little 163 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 3: boys and girls at age two, the boys are more 164 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:11,079 Speaker 3: sensitive really once, yes, but once they get a little 165 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 3: bit older, the boys lose that and the girls maintain it. 166 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 3: And what the girls maintain is the emotional connectivity to 167 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 3: other people, particularly the women and their circles of support. 168 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 3: And little boys that grow to be men do not 169 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 3: have the same emotional vulnerability and connectivity and don't have 170 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 3: the same support system naturally when they get to crises 171 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 3: in their lives. You know, it's one thing to have 172 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 3: lots of friends, but it's very different to have men 173 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 3: where you feel you can be yourself, you can share 174 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 3: your weaknesses. You can be vulnerable, you can be emotional. 175 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 3: Many men don't have that, but it turns out that 176 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,079 Speaker 3: most women do have it. So all of a sudden, 177 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 3: these boys that became men get into the cauldron of midlife, 178 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 3: the relationship isn't working and to kind of go to 179 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 3: their own corner alone to start, and they don't understand 180 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 3: how to be connected. And that's a huge difference. 181 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 2: So it's mostly a programming thing. 182 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: Then. That's so interesting to me that men are when 183 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: they're younger, more sensitive. I mean, it kind of makes 184 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: sense to me with some of some other theories that 185 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: I'm working through, but I can't Yeah, I can't wrap 186 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: my mind around what exactly happens to a man during 187 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 1: the process. Because as a woman, we're so encouraged for community. 188 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: So how could a man in this situation in his midlife, 189 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: not having that experience throughout his life change that, Like, 190 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: how can a man reach out for community during a 191 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: hard time like this. 192 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 3: I'm so glad you led me to this question. You 193 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 3: got to take a risk. Start with one person now 194 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 3: that could be a therapist. I think the great thing 195 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 3: is with better help and modern mental health. I think 196 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 3: mental health is being destigmatized. God blessed, and I think 197 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 3: that men should understand that there is no shame in 198 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 3: seeking help. So you can get help from multiple places. 199 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 3: I think that you can get help from a therapist's 200 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 3: you know, I've mentioned you can get help from a friend. 201 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,559 Speaker 3: Maybe it's a male friend that your instinct tells you 202 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 3: you could be vulnerable with, and you could say, hey, 203 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 3: I need help and I need your help and take 204 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 3: a chance. Trust your instincts and take a chance. I 205 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 3: think the other piece of it is developing practices that 206 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 3: support our own internal emotional and mental health. Whether it's meditation. 207 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 3: I meditate regularly, whether it's a practice that takes you 208 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 3: out of the dark and into the light. Heck, Tom 209 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 3: stur just talks about how his divorce he found Instagram, 210 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 3: reels and TikTok and he just laughed ten minutes a 211 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 3: day at the absurdity of what's on these platforms. But 212 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 3: I think back to your question, Men need to trust 213 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 3: their instincts and take a risk to connect with other people. 214 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 3: Or it could be a woman in your life. Is 215 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 3: there a woman in your life whom you trust and 216 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 3: you could be vulnerable with. 217 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: Okay, Well, that leads me to the next piece that 218 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: I want to discuss something that I've noticed between friends 219 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: of mine. I mean, I'm midlife, I'm forty two. So 220 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: friends of mine going through the process of divorce, whether 221 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 1: it's a man or a woman, there is one significant 222 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: difference in every single situation. And the women that I 223 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: see going through the divorce take a break. They like 224 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: take a pause. They're focused on either whether they have kids, 225 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: or the process of the divorce, or healing themselves, like 226 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: going through the grief process of the relationship, kind of 227 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: finding themselves again. And all of the men immediately start dating. 228 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: So is part of that, in your opinion based on 229 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: this searching for connection? Maybe maybe that's not been safe 230 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: for me, like my men friends to go to other men. 231 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: Maybe they don't have those communities or why is that happening? 232 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: What is behind this? 233 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 3: That's interesting? Well, by the way I saw you had 234 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,199 Speaker 3: an astrology expert. My wife is a huge lay astrology 235 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 3: expert herself, and I think my wife would say channeling 236 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 3: her is I bet the Capricorn moon women start dating 237 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 3: right away. I'm a Capricorn. Probably Harry achievement oriented, got 238 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 3: my to do list. Your question about the differences between 239 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 3: men and women rebounding and dating right away, You're probably right. 240 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 3: I think any man or woman who is self aware 241 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:38,199 Speaker 3: needs to take a pause and not seek another relationship. 242 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 3: When you're going through your divorce, you're not in a place, 243 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 3: you don't know what you want. You're probably reactive and 244 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 3: you're going to hurt someone else. The truth is, you're 245 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 3: gonna take your hurt and you're going to hurt someone else. 246 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 3: My first guest of my First Seasons an amazing relationship 247 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 3: expert named Kama Bojuani. You can see her on NBC 248 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 3: and she's at commonolive dot com and she talks about 249 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 3: her own experience of separation divorce, which she's going through 250 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 3: right now. She talks about it openly, and she talks 251 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 3: about how if you go out to the dating apps, 252 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 3: you can find anything you want. As we all know, 253 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 3: you can find any mode and anything you want, and 254 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 3: that will not lead you down a good path if 255 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 3: you're in the middle of your separation divorce. Now, men, 256 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 3: I think who are in that pain. I think it 257 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 3: is very natural to want to find a distraction, whether 258 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 3: it's sex or companionship or whatever you want to find. 259 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 3: And for guys who live from here and want to 260 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 3: pointing to my head, which is most people. I think 261 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 3: that rebounding is a natural instinct. I just say, don't 262 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 3: do it. 263 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 2: Don't do it. 264 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: No, but you said you are remarried, correct, So what 265 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: would your suggestions be? So wait until you're officially divorced 266 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: possibly or what are the parameters? 267 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 2: Give me some tips here? 268 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, well I got separated seven years ago June, okay, 269 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 3: and divorced, you know, a good while ago. My financial 270 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 3: settlement was separated from my legal divorce, So okay, that's 271 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 3: an important distinction. But what I would say is you've 272 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 3: got to trust yourself and how you are mentally and emotionally, spiritually, 273 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 3: and really check in with that before you actually get 274 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 3: out there and start dating you and want to have 275 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 3: a relationship. Now, what are the other pieces? Are you 276 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 3: emotionally available? What do you have to give to someone else? 277 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 3: Are you just trying to get? And I think the 278 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 3: other piece, yes, is the legal divorce. I think that 279 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 3: most women who have a lot going for them want 280 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 3: to see a guy who is legally divorced where the 281 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 3: county and a judge has stamped that legal divorce. I 282 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 3: remember when I was going through my separation. I think 283 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 3: I probably waited nine to twelve months after I was 284 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 3: separated before dating. Okay, I was on the ASPS. I 285 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 3: think a couple women early on called me out and said, hey, 286 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 3: are you are you legally divorced? Are you know? What 287 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 3: are you going for? I wasn't legally divorced yet, and 288 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 3: I think the truth is I probably wasn't ready, and 289 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 3: it was some time after that. Actually, in the spring 290 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 3: of twenty twenty, I connected with my now wife, and 291 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 3: you met the woman that I was meant to be 292 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 3: with for the rest of my life. I'm very happy 293 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 3: to say so. I would say that you've got to know, 294 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 3: you've got to be available, and I think being legally 295 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 3: divorced is a good idea. 296 00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 2: Well, isn't it. 297 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: Some form of unavailability if you're still married technically? 298 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 2: That's all I've always viewed it. 299 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 3: I think it is, and I think there's a legal 300 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 3: piece to it, there's an emotional piece to it, and 301 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 3: ever lasted aside for him or herself. I think it 302 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 3: is possible if you've been separated for a while and 303 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 3: your legal divorce is in your sites, and you have 304 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 3: not been physical or emotionally connected to your ex for 305 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 3: a good while. I think there are people who were 306 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,959 Speaker 3: ready and available. I think it's also valid for a 307 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 3: new potential partner to say, Hey, I'd like to see 308 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 3: you be legally divorced. 309 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it depends. 310 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 3: I don't think every case is black and white. 311 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: Well. I like that you mentioned the pause though, because 312 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: I would imagine if you're coming out of a divorce 313 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: and let's say you've been married quite some time, you 314 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: might not know even what you want, which I would 315 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: imagine walking into dating could be kind of intimidating. Because 316 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: you've been in this relationship for a super long time. 317 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: You kind of have to get to know yourself again. 318 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: So can you talk through a little bit about that, Like, 319 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: what are some ways you mentioned meditation? But what are 320 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: some ways listeners may take the pause and really lean 321 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: into getting to know this new version of themselves. 322 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 3: That's a great question, listen, I think speaking some personal experience. 323 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,360 Speaker 3: So I'm a Libra and a double Libra. What does 324 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 3: that mean? 325 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 2: I love all this astrology talking about idea. 326 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 3: By the way, I knew nothing about this and it 327 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 3: was a deep skeptic before I met my wife. Yes, 328 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 3: my wife is a star commercial attorney at a big 329 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 3: tech company, but she happens to be a lay expert 330 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 3: in astrology, and she started feeding me stuff when we 331 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 3: got together, and I thought, how do you know me 332 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 3: better than anyone has ever known me? Just from knowing 333 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 3: my time of day, day place, whatever, year of birth. 334 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 3: So it's legit. I mean, really it is legit, you know. Listen. 335 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:03,120 Speaker 3: I think my first respects Kelly to the question how 336 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 3: do we start to know ourselves again? Is to look 337 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:11,959 Speaker 3: inward and to understand ourselves internally. Try to understand our 338 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 3: own emotions, our own emotional patterns, and our own instincts. 339 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,640 Speaker 3: And so I think for most men who come out 340 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 3: of child to disconnect it emotionally, because that's the way 341 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 3: boys are bred, right, I mean boys in this country, 342 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 3: unless you're part of a different, exceptional family or maybe 343 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 3: an exceptional different set of parents. We learn to suck 344 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,439 Speaker 3: it up. We learned to achieve, we learned to somewhat 345 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 3: go to loan. As we've discussed. So I think the 346 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 3: first thing is is to figure out ways to understand 347 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,919 Speaker 3: our own emotional map. How do we do it? Learning 348 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 3: to meditate and take some space internally allows the instincts 349 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 3: to come up and the self awareness to come up, 350 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 3: and those epiphanies to come up that we never knew 351 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 3: and never thought about. The whole roadmap is truly inside. 352 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,680 Speaker 3: I mean God did make each of us with the 353 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 3: whole universe inside of us and all of the answers. 354 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 3: But we spend most of our time and I'm pointing 355 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,160 Speaker 3: to my head again for those listening in our minds 356 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 3: and in our to do lists and in what society 357 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 3: or our parents, or our spouse or our friends think 358 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,199 Speaker 3: we should be. So I'd say, first look inside and 359 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 3: find those practices. Meditation is a great is a great process. 360 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 3: The other thing is, I'm a big fan of therapy 361 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 3: and I'm actually working with a new therapist looking at 362 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 3: anger and looking at what part anger has played in 363 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 3: my life and my own different emotional parts. There's a 364 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 3: system called internal family systems that my late father in 365 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,959 Speaker 3: law worked with called parts work. He passed away. He 366 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 3: was an amazing counselor to so many people, and I'm 367 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 3: working with someone who does that same work. Understand your 368 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 3: own emotional internal map. What isn't driving you to do? 369 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 3: The last thing I tell you and my last episode 370 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,439 Speaker 3: guest Derek Haswell, who's the founder of ten Percent Happier, 371 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 3: great company that provides meditation and mindfulness coaching and apps, 372 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 3: and also the Dan Harris the ten percent Happier app. 373 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 3: You know Derek, who's an amazing guy, talks about how 374 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 3: we need to learn to respond not react, and when 375 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 3: we're run by old emotional patterns that are unexamined, we 376 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 3: live our life reacting not responding, So find ways to 377 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 3: slow down and look internally. All the answers are there. 378 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 2: I love that. 379 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 1: I love all of everything you just said, and I 380 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: completely agree. And until you slow down, I find it 381 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 1: difficult as a human to hear anything, to get any 382 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: information coming from my insides or my internal map, as 383 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: you've talked about. So some in our culture seems so 384 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: driven by go go, go go, or compartmentalize like you 385 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier. So sometimes it does take the slowing down 386 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: as hard as it can be to get the map, 387 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,120 Speaker 1: to get the guidance. But it's not a bad thing. 388 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: I love that the way you just framed all of that. 389 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 1: I was just thinking through hearing about your experience and 390 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 1: you mentioned being on the dating app after your divorce. 391 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 1: How different was dating after being married a significant amount 392 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: of time from before you got married to then after 393 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: and like, how did you adjust? If people are listening, 394 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: maybe going through this process now, it could be kind 395 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,199 Speaker 1: of intimidating, I would imagine, because the dating world has 396 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:35,120 Speaker 1: changed quite a lot. 397 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 3: That's a true statement, Kelly. So I was with my 398 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 3: ex for let's see, a total of seventeen years feteen 399 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 3: years married and three years together before we got married. 400 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 3: So yeah, you know, ironically, when I was a young 401 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 3: guy just moved to the Bay Area, San Francisco, Bay 402 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 3: Area in the late nineties to pursue a career in tech, 403 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 3: Match dot com had launched a couple years before, and 404 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 3: I knew the founders. And by the way, when match 405 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 3: dot com launched, it was in a basement on Brian 406 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,880 Speaker 3: Street in San Francisco. It was like thirty engineers and 407 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 3: they couldn't get real women to sign up for the service. 408 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 3: So they created female profiles and impersonated women. That's how 409 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 3: match dot com started. Now it's of course, it's a 410 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 3: part of IAC and it's a huge business. Legitimate men 411 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,640 Speaker 3: and women on all of these apps. You know. I 412 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 3: think what you learn is be super overt about who 413 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 3: you are, real, what you want for real and put 414 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 3: that out right on your profile. And I think for 415 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 3: men who are very visual, men tend to go for 416 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 3: look and the looks, and we'll make compromises on other 417 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 3: things for looks. Okay, I'm being stereotypical, bad idea, Okay, Right, 418 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 3: So I think looks are important. Physical chemistry is super 419 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 3: important on that, right, it's not. But be clear about 420 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 3: what you want and interests and background and personality and intelligence, right, 421 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 3: all the things that it turns out like really matter, 422 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 3: and don't compromise those things in service of just hooking 423 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 3: up or a volume of dates, particularly when you're lonely 424 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 3: and if you're rebounding out, like we talked about earlier, 425 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 3: just looking to fill your dance card because your kids 426 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 3: are spending more time with your soon to be x 427 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 3: than with you, and that's created a huge hole. Maybe 428 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 3: your friends have receded from you because they're siding with 429 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 3: your soon to be X. Maybe you just feel lonely, 430 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 3: but I'd say fight those areges and instincts, know what 431 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 3: you want, you know the kind of person you want, 432 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 3: and be patient. 433 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 2: Okay, So there's that much interesting. Yeah. 434 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 1: I actually listen to your podcast with Tom Sturgis earlier 435 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: and and I loved this statement that he said, and 436 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,439 Speaker 1: when we kind of mentioned having a successful divorce, but 437 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: he said to really try to switch your perspective to 438 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: it's not a failure just because it ended, which is 439 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: such a big portion of how I'm moving in relationships 440 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,360 Speaker 1: in this point in my life as well. And it's 441 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: kind of become funny to me to even hear someone 442 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: say like, oh, well, that's the one, or you're looking 443 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: for the one, because I think relationships can serve us 444 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 1: so much in such a bigger capacity than just that 445 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: just the one that you're gonna be with forever. You know, 446 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: every relationship in my life has served a deep purpose, 447 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 1: and when I look at it in that way, they 448 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: all feel like successes. So how can we, as humans 449 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: who have been programmed to kind of, you know, since 450 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: day one, it's kind of like you got to find 451 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: the one partner, how can we look at the relationships 452 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: that have ended as successes. 453 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 3: You just gave me chills, so good, Anya, as Ausors 454 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 3: would say. And I think our partners, wives, husbands are 455 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 3: not there to make us happy. Our partners are not 456 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 3: there to make us happy. It doesn't mean we shouldn't 457 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 3: be happy with the people in our lives. It doesn't 458 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 3: mean we shouldn't be loving and connected, but at the 459 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 3: end of the day, it's, you know, to be trite. 460 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 3: It's an inside job. And speaking for myself, I came 461 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 3: out of childhood like most high achievers any gram three 462 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 3: by the way, I know, you know the performer, Yeah, 463 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 3: the achiever. I came out with an internal deficit that 464 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 3: Derek has well. My last guest before Tom would call 465 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 3: them not enough. I would say many driven, high achieving 466 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 3: men and women have that deficit. It is a double 467 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 3: led sword. It's a double led sword that causes us 468 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 3: to seek things externally to get praise to fill the 469 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 3: deficit inside. Those things are achievement, they are jobs, they 470 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 3: are titles. Sometimes they're children. It is money, it is 471 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,360 Speaker 3: the right in quotes, I did air quotes, the right 472 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 3: spouse or partner, and then we put all of this 473 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 3: pressure on the relationship to make us happy and fulfill us. 474 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 3: So you're right. I love what Tom said, which is 475 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 3: his first marriage was not a failure, it was a success. 476 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 3: He had two beautiful sons from that relationship. I have 477 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 3: three beautiful kids with my ex. I thank God for 478 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 3: my ex. She is a great woman. She is a 479 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 3: strong person. We're trying to figure out how to best 480 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 3: co of parents that we can. It's an ongoing process. 481 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 3: It's never perfect. And I thank god that I met 482 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 3: her and had three beautiful children. I have with her 483 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 3: number one thing in my life, along with my wife 484 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 3: and my step son. So reset and recast the idea 485 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 3: of your first marriage. If you're going through separation and divorce, 486 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 3: what did you learn from it? What did you gain 487 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 3: from it? Also, remember this, at any given point in 488 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 3: our lives, where everything that's led up to that point 489 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 3: creates our mindset and our field of vision, we make 490 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,719 Speaker 3: the choices we make based on who we are at 491 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 3: that moment. And if you look back on yourself five 492 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 3: or ten or fifteen years ago or longer, when you 493 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 3: got married, that's the choice you were meant to make 494 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 3: at that time in your life for reasons that sometimes 495 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 3: you can't see. There was no other choice. That person, 496 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 3: that person who became your relationship and the person may 497 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 3: now be your ex. There was a reason, there was 498 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 3: a plan behind it. And so here we are now 499 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 3: with new awareness and new experience to make different choices. 500 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 3: But it's all good. 501 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all good. 502 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: I so resonate with the high achieving piece of what 503 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: you said. And I think because of that, so many 504 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: of us do feel like relationship and ships that end 505 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: are embarrassing or it was you know, it's just like 506 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: unsuccessful or I've carried a lot of shame in my 507 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: life just based on things failing. But exactly like you said, 508 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: when I look back now, each relationship that ended was 509 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: such a big part of my own evolution, which is 510 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: why we're all here anyway, right, just the journey of 511 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: our own growth. So if it got you there, it 512 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: was worth something. It was a success, even if it 513 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: was crazy looking in the moment when you're in it 514 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: and it needed to end, or anything like that. 515 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 3: That's right, Kelly, And I just say one other thing. 516 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 3: You know how when you look back on your life, 517 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 3: those moments of pain, those moments of change that felt 518 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,479 Speaker 3: terrible in the moment, you can't see what's around the 519 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 3: next corner and the next corner in those moments. And 520 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 3: it's only through those moments of change and pain that 521 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 3: give rise to the opportunity for the great things that 522 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 3: are around the next corners. There's a cause and effect. 523 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, well it is. The podcast is called Halftime 524 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: with John. It's a whole platform. I'm so excited to 525 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: see what you do when you open it up to 526 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: even more than just the men talk, because I've loved 527 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: the men talk from a women's perspective even it's been 528 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: great for me. Where else can people find you if 529 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,479 Speaker 1: they want to keep up with what you're doing and 530 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: just with the company. 531 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 3: Thank you, Kelly. So you can find us at Halftime 532 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 3: dot network. Okay, it's the site for the podcast. You 533 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 3: can find us on YouTube if you starts Halftime with John. 534 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 3: John is Jon. By the way, there's no age. You 535 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 3: can find us. Also wherever that you would listen to 536 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 3: your podcast. 537 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 2: Amazing. 538 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: I will put all of that in the description of 539 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: the podcast for you guys. As always, John, thank you 540 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: so much for being here. I really enjoyed this conversation 541 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: me too, Kelly. 542 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 3: Thank you.