1 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: After nearly a decade investigating abuse in the Catholic Church, 2 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: Jason Barry was finally ready for some peace and quiet. 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 1: It was nineteen ninety four. He was back home in 4 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: New Orleans, trying to do what no journalist ever really does. Stop. 5 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: Jason was the deep dive kind, the kind of reporter 6 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: who doesn't just chase a story, he lets it consume him. 7 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: For eight years, he'd been writing about one of the 8 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:46,919 Speaker 1: darkest scandals in the Catholic Church. His book, Lead Us 9 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: Not Into Temptation exposed more than four hundred priests and 10 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: brothers accused of molesting children across North America. Eight years 11 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: of interviews, core documents, survivor test money. The work had 12 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: won him awards, but he had absolutely drained him. And 13 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 1: now that the book was finally out, he wanted out too. 14 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: No more horror, no more church politics, no more secondhand trauma. 15 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: He made a promise he'd never write about abuse again. 16 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: He just wanted to sit on the porch with a 17 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: sweeting glass of iced tea and an easy paperback, stare 18 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: at nothing in particular, and let the world spin without him. 19 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,759 Speaker 1: More than anything, he wanted to write about jazz, the 20 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,479 Speaker 1: history of jazz. That was the plan for the rest 21 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: of his life. But then the phone rang on the 22 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: other end, a trusted source with an exclusive dip. 23 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 2: So he told me this long story about this powerful 24 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 2: Mexican priest who had taken these young boys as seminarians 25 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 2: from Mexico to Spain and then to Rome, and all 26 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 2: of these episodes of how he preyed upon and abused 27 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 2: these youngsters, and he really wanted me to write about it. 28 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: God not again, that was Jason Barry's first thought. But 29 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: instead of saying no, he asked for something most sources 30 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: couldn't deliver. Notarize soren statements, sign documents, official testimonies. Proof 31 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: this wasn't just rumor, proof it was real. He knew 32 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: getting that kind of paperwork wouldn't be easy. It meant 33 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: risk commitment, so he made a deal with himself, if 34 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: the documents ever came, he'd take a look at it. 35 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,679 Speaker 1: A year passed and Jason forgot all about the call. 36 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: He was knee deep in a project about jazz musicians, 37 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: losing himself in record shops trying to describe trumpet solows 38 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: in print, and then one afternoon he came home to 39 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: find a cardboard box on his porch. Nothing about it 40 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: stood out, just a regular bat up shipping box, the 41 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: label a bit smearred from rain. He brought it inside, 42 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: set it on the kitchen table, and opened the top flap. 43 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: Inside hundreds of pages of sworn documents, translated testimonies, names, dates, allegations, 44 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: and a letter to the Vatican. As Jason read, his 45 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: pulse quickened. He couldn't believe it. This wasn't just the lead. 46 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: It was a smoking gun, the kind of evidence reporters 47 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: wait lifetimes for, and it had just shown up on 48 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: his doorstep. And this story it made his years of 49 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: reporting on church abuse feel like an appetizer. 50 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 2: I've interviewed sex offenders, but Maciel was on a scale 51 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 2: beyond anything I had encountered. It wasn't just the number 52 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 2: of all these young men but it was the way 53 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 2: he manipulated their lives for years, and then to learn 54 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 2: that as he was building this empire, raising money from 55 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 2: some of the richest people in the world, Carlos Slim 56 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 2: and his wife, among others. It's just beyond anything I 57 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 2: had known. 58 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: That was a moment Jason realized this wasn't just another 59 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: abusive priest. This was global political a white whale story, 60 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: and no one else seemed to be talking about it. 61 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: For decades, these accusations had lived in silence, hidden behind 62 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 1: titles and rows of money. So Jason made a decision 63 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: to reach for the truth. It was a decision that 64 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: intertwined our lives because Masille's story is also mine. While 65 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: Jason was collecting evidence, I was collecting money. While he 66 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: was contacting survivors. I was contacting new recruits. While Jason 67 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: was exposing the legions abuses, I was handing out pamphlets 68 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 1: convincing we were saving souls. My name is Helena Saldah 69 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: and this is my story. It's a story of how 70 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: I learned to hide, to cry, to survive, and eventually 71 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: how I got out this secret scandal, the many secrets 72 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: of Marciane Masill. Episode three. I started hearing rumors will 73 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: be right back, Tayson Mary was no stranger to scandal 74 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: in the Catholic Church. In fact, he was one of 75 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: the first to blow the whistle, years before the Boston 76 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 1: Glove Spotlight team would make headlines around the world. You 77 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 1: know the story that would later become an Oscar winning film. 78 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: And I'll just say if Rachel McAdams places me in 79 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 1: the movie version of this story, I won't be mad. 80 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: But back to Jason. His obsession with pret stories started 81 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: back in nineteen eighty four. He came across a small 82 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: news item out of Louisiana had been arrested for sexually 83 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: abusing aultar voice. That alone was disturbing, but what caught 84 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: Jason's eye wasn't just the crime. It was the cover up. 85 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: The church had quietly moved the priests from parish to perish, 86 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: hiding him in plain sight. Jason knew that detail changed everything. 87 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: This wasn't just a story about a predator, it was 88 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: about the institution that protected him. 89 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 2: At this time, child social abuse was not a major 90 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 2: issue anywhere, much less the United States. It was just 91 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 2: starting to emerge, and the Catholic Church certainly was held 92 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:48,239 Speaker 2: in high regard. 93 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: But Jason followed the leads. He uncovered another priest who 94 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: had also been removed from his ministry without consequences. Through 95 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: lawyers and victim Yim's families, Jason Gathers sworn the positions 96 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: and internal church documents, and with each page he found 97 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: himself facing a question that would hunt him for years. 98 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: What did they know? And when did they know it? 99 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: He saw it clearly then it was Watergate but for 100 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: the church, but the industry didn't see it the same way. 101 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: Barry struggled to find the national atlet willing to publish 102 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: his story, even the New York Times magazine, which had 103 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: recently featured his work. The client. 104 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 2: So I realized I was sort of like Kyote on 105 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 2: the horse, going up against a pretty big windmill. 106 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: So he doubled down, spent years chasing the truth, interviewing victims, 107 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: digging through church records, and in nineteen ninety two he 108 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: published the book, a landmark investigation. It shook the Catholic 109 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: establishment and put his name on the map. Jason had 110 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: done his job, story over, but then the box came 111 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:12,839 Speaker 1: and incited a letter. 112 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 2: One of the documents was a letter from nineteen seventy 113 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 2: six that Juan Vodka, who was among the oldest of 114 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 2: these men and at that time was living in New 115 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 2: York as a priest. He wrote this extraordinary letter to Maciel, 116 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 2: accusing him not just of abusing him, but all these 117 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 2: other young men. 118 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: Kuan Kosevaka, once director of the Legion of Christ in 119 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: the United States, a man who had climbed every wrong 120 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: of the movement, then walked away a solution. Fed up 121 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: with the abuse he had witnessed first hand, in nineteen 122 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:05,119 Speaker 1: seventy six, he wrote a twelve page letter to Masielle. 123 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: It was detailed, devastating, furious. He wasn't just accusing Marseille 124 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: of abusing him, dozens of young men who like him, 125 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: had once believed they were chosen. But that letter was 126 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: accompanied by something far more explosive. 127 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 2: And it was accompanied by a letter that Vodka then wrote, 128 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 2: or had later written, to Pope John Paul the Second, 129 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 2: advising him of what had been done to him. So 130 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, you know, I had a letter 131 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 2: that takes it straight to the Pope. 132 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 1: The Pope had known almost twenty years earlier, a former 133 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: priest had come forward with names, places, dates, and nothing 134 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: had happened. The letter of Amasiel's empire kept growing. Jason 135 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: stood over the documents from the box, hands resting on 136 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: his kitchen table, the weight of everything pressing in. He 137 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: had to step out, clear his head, go for a 138 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: walk in the thick, humid air of New Orleans. He'd 139 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: been here before too many times, the interviews, the late nights, 140 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: the silence from editors, the weight of stories, no one 141 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: wanted a Polish Did he really want to go through 142 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: it all again? He wasn't sure, not yet. Then he 143 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: got another call. 144 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 2: I got a call from Jose Barbara, who was a 145 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 2: professor in Mexico City at E tom And I'll never 146 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 2: forget his first words. They were almost like a priest. 147 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 2: It was a very Latin greeting, and he's said, how 148 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 2: is your family? 149 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:09,079 Speaker 1: They spoke on the phone for hours, Jason's scrupled notes, carefully, 150 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: slowly switching between his broken Spanish, who says careful English, 151 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: But the message came through. Jose told him he'd been 152 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: abused by Marsil decades ago. The story was real and 153 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: the damage was deep. But still Jason hesitated, could he 154 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: really do this again? 155 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 2: And he really encouraged me to do this? And I 156 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 2: said well, and he had read the book, and I said, well, 157 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 2: I'll think about it, but I must say it would 158 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 2: probably be a lot easier for you if you found 159 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 2: someone in Mexico who could do this. Well. Then he 160 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 2: began to tell me about the power of the Legion 161 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 2: of Christ educating all these young men, many of whom 162 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 2: positions in law firms and newsrooms and institutes and so forth. 163 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: In the States, the Legion had a few schools and churches, 164 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: but his footprint was small limited. This phone call revealed 165 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: what it really was in Mexico, how big the Legion 166 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: truly was. In schools, law firms, newspapers, tightly interwomen with 167 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: the country's elite, tied to money and power. There was 168 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: no one in Mexico who could tell this story, not safely, 169 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: not yet. That's when Jason knew if he didn't write it, 170 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: maybe no one would. 171 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 2: So I went to Mexico City in the end of 172 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 2: October nineteen ninety six, and then I began doing the interviews. 173 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 2: I was there about two weeks, I suppose. Although I 174 00:13:55,720 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 2: knew the stories in basic form from the documents, they 175 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 2: had said, you learn a great deal sitting with people, 176 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 2: studying their intonations, their body language. 177 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: What he saw in these men was chilling. Every time 178 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: they talked about what had happened to them with Mossilles 179 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: decades ago, they revealed something terrible. 180 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 2: I realized how much fear these men felt for this priest, 181 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 2: who by then was I guess, in his late seventies 182 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 2: or early eighties. I also learned the enormous power that 183 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 2: Maciel had in Mexico, and the influence of the Legion 184 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 2: of Christ within Mexican society, and the extraordinary financial base 185 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 2: that this religious order had. He had expanded to other 186 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 2: countries with schools and centers of learning, and of course 187 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 2: the Regnum Christ, the order which was laypeople. 188 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: Back in New Orleans, Jason laid out the documents on 189 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: his desk, everything he'd gathered in Mexico, saw in testimonies, names, dates, 190 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: and he started thinking, where could I even publish a 191 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: story like this? And then, as tends to happen in 192 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: Jason Barry's life, he got another phone call that turned 193 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: the story into its head. 194 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 2: And I got a call one day from Gerald Renner, 195 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 2: a colleague of friend. He was the religion editor of 196 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 2: the Hartford Current in Hartford, Connecticut, and he had just 197 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 2: done a story about the religious order, the Legionaries of Christ, 198 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 2: that Father Maciel had founded, and he said it was 199 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 2: a very secretive, almost cult like organization. It had its 200 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 2: American headquarter Orders in Cheshire, Connecticut, and he had done 201 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 2: a story about several seminarians who felt they were being 202 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 2: subjected to mind control tactics. 203 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: It was the exactlybook Lordless and I had been subjected 204 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: to being constantly watched, manipulated, and coursed. 205 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 2: And they had literally crawled over the fence and fled 206 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 2: ran away from the seminary. 207 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: And he was. 208 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 2: Curious if I knew much about this order, And of 209 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 2: course I liked Jerry because he had written a favorable 210 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 2: review of my book. Anyway, I said, well, it's strange 211 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 2: that you should call, because I've actually been in touch 212 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 2: with several men in Mexico. 213 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: How weird he was still trying to pus it all together, 214 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: and now here was Jerry calling out of nowhere, asking 215 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: about the very story he had been circling for weeks. 216 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: The Hartford Current was a solid and reppitable paper, but 217 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: Jason had thought this was a story for a bigger 218 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: publication than New York Times the Washington Post. But deep down, 219 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: he already knew how hard it was to get this 220 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 1: kind of story published. His last book had taught him 221 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: that people didn't want to hear about abuse inside of 222 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church, even when the evidence was undeniable. He 223 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: knew that waiting for the perfect outlet could mean waiting forever, 224 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: So he decided to roll with it and as he 225 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: pulled out the loose threads, I was helping hold the 226 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: fabric together, and our stories were about to intersect. Months 227 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: had passed since that faithful box landed on Jason's porch. 228 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 1: By then he had finally pieced together the story. His 229 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: article was six thousand words loan. Jason tracked down every 230 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: victim named in the original files, other former legionaires, and 231 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: word of his investigation eventually reached the highest levels of 232 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:20,959 Speaker 1: reigning Christie. They had ears everywhere, and now that they 233 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: knew the story was coming, things were going to get ugly. 234 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: Jason and his team knew what had to happen next. 235 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 1: As journalists, they had to reach out from a sale's 236 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: side of the story. 237 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 2: We made a point of seeking an interview with Maciel 238 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 2: and he wouldn't do it, but he hired a major 239 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 2: law firm in Washington, d C. Kirkland and Ellis, the 240 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 2: same law firm, one of whose partners was Kenneth Starr, 241 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 2: the man who did the prosecution of President Clinton for 242 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 2: Monica Lewinsky. 243 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: That's when Jesus and understood Mosiele wasn't just turning them down. 244 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: He was gearing up to kill the story. First came 245 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: the lawyers, then the statements. Mosile wasn't planning to defend himself. 246 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: He was going to trade to this gratit reason on 247 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: his work. 248 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 2: He sent me quite a number of statements that the 249 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 2: Legion had provided through this attorney, from men who were 250 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 2: claiming that the allegations were false. The Nystopadre our father 251 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 2: was a living saint. That these people were jealous at all. 252 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: It was like trying to argue with the wall that 253 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: the Niles came fast and rehearsed. There was no opening, 254 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: no crack. If the Legion wouldn't answer, maybe someone even 255 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: higher would. There was one figure left, the most powerful 256 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: man in the Catholic Church. 257 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 2: And we tried to get a comment from the Vatican 258 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 2: because of Vodka's letter, What does the Holy See have 259 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 2: to say about Pope John Paul knowing him? 260 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: Unlike Mosielle, the Vatican didn't reject the interview. They had 261 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 1: another strategy. 262 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 2: The Vatican Press Office did not respond, and that told 263 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 2: us something. It would be one thing to say we 264 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 2: have no comment. It would be another thing to say 265 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 2: we do not believe the charges, but do not respond 266 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 2: at all. 267 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,880 Speaker 1: To this group of journalists. The silence said more than 268 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: any official statement ever could. Jason realized getting the truth 269 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: out was one thing, getting the world to believe it 270 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 1: that would be the real bottle. It was nineteen ninety seven. 271 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: Barry sat across from his editor at the Harvard Current, 272 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: the tests between them buried in notes, sworn statements, and 273 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: legal memos. The room was quiet, except for the sound 274 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 1: of pages being shuffled, read, re read. Jason's size were 275 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: fixed on the headline draft his editors. Joe was tight. 276 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: They both knew what they were holding. This wasn't just 277 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: another expose, and Mazielle wasn't just another priest. Masielle was untouchable, 278 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: a man with friends in the Vatican, with donors in Mexico, Spain, 279 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 1: and the United States, A figure so powerful his name 280 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 1: opened doors most journalists couldn't even knock on. To go 281 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: after him was to challenge an empire, and empires don't 282 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:58,159 Speaker 1: fall quietly. But the voices of survivors like One and 283 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: Jose left no room for hesitation. For a moment, neither 284 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:10,159 Speaker 1: of them moved. The decision hovered between them, heavy electric. 285 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: They had the evidence, they had the story, and once 286 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: it was out, there would be no pulling back. On 287 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:28,120 Speaker 1: February twenty third, nineteen ninety seven, the story went live 288 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 1: from page above the fold. The headline was simple and devastating. 289 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: Head of worldwide Catholic Order accused of history of abuse. 290 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: More on that after the break. It was a chilla 291 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: day in Chicago mid May, but the wind cut through 292 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: like it was the death of winter. The year was 293 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:05,400 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven. I was stepping into my twelve year 294 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: as a Concertrata, already used to the weight of big responsibilities, 295 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,640 Speaker 1: and this time the assignment came directly from a SID. 296 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: This was that event, the one't he asked for months earlier, 297 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: the one where he said, let's make it thousands. So 298 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: I booked the conference center near the Chicago Oha Airport 299 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: for thousands of people, one of the biggest gatherings we 300 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: had ever pulled off. I asked him what the theme 301 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:46,120 Speaker 1: was these events usually had a theme. He just said, 302 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 1: we will honor my legacy, my vision, my work. I 303 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 1: didn't question it. I never did, but I remember thinking quietly, 304 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: this feels like two more much? Why now? A few 305 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 1: days later I got my answer. Everyone was called in 306 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: for an important meeting. We were told to listen carefully. 307 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,919 Speaker 1: There are news articles circulating. They said, you are not 308 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: to read them. There are lies attacks from people who 309 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: hate mister Pale and want to destroy his name. The 310 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: article they were talking about was Jason Berries. Of course, 311 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 1: they warned us that even if our own families brought 312 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 1: it up, we were not to engage mouchetes the book 313 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: cafe women of failing faith, That's what they called us. 314 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: If we questioned anything, and if you did, there was isolation, silence, 315 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: a punishment for doubt. They reminded us, this wasn't the 316 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: first time something like this had happened. We had to 317 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: think about lagdam bendiscion. I remember the first time I 318 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: heard about this. It was in Rome. They counseled classes 319 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: and gathered us in a room without any explanation. Once 320 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,360 Speaker 1: we were all seated, someone pressed play on a cassette. 321 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 1: It was Mosille's voice, calm, measured. He told us what 322 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: happened in the fifties, about how he was accused of 323 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: abusing substances. He spoke with a kind of wounded pride, 324 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: insistingly it had all been lies, that his accusers were 325 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 1: mentally unstable, diagnosed with dementia, bitter lost. He called it 326 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: a test from God said that all saints must pass 327 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: through fire, and we believed him. We called it lagdam Bendscion, 328 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,159 Speaker 1: the Great Blessing, because if mister Baldy had suffered, it 329 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: only proved how holy he really was. And now in 330 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven we were told to remember it again. 331 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: This too was a test, a tribulation, a purification. So 332 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: I went back to work than in the event, thinking 333 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: this is going to be a bit harder now with 334 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: all these eyes upon us. But I pushed away the doubt, 335 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: telling myself that we had to make it bigger, louder, 336 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: more triumphant, to cast out the demons of doubt. And 337 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: we did a great job, because thousands came one by one. 338 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 1: Speakers took the stage, each one delivering words of praise. 339 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: Masille helped my family, Masille opened this school. Masiel saved 340 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:04,439 Speaker 1: my soul, bishops, priests, and Morsiel himself celebrating Mass at 341 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: the end his images, the saint solidified. I even gave 342 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: a presentation titled the Greatest Attributes of Marcilles Mazille under 343 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: Harvard Current article. It didn't touch us. He walked away 344 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: without even a scratch. Jason, on the other hand. 345 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 2: From the moment the article came out in nineteen ninety seven, 346 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 2: and people supporting the legion started sending letters to the 347 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 2: current stating that this could not be true. We realized 348 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 2: that there was going to be a long, at least 349 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:57,439 Speaker 2: mechanism of denial, and that soon led to a counter attack. 350 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 2: They published a website called legionaryfacts dot org, and they 351 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:06,680 Speaker 2: attacked all of us. 352 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: Mosiele had prepared for this. He had an entirapy ar 353 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: machine ready to go, even a website. We believed it 354 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,959 Speaker 1: was conspiracy, that people were jealous, that they wanted money. 355 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: I didn't even see the article until years later, long 356 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: after I had left. But if I had read it 357 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 1: back then, here's what I would have found. 358 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 3: After decades of silence, nine men have come forward to 359 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 3: accuse Marcial Maciel of sexually abusing them when they were 360 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 3: boys and young men training to be priests. They said 361 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 3: they are coming forward now because Pope John Paul the 362 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 3: Second did not respond to letters from two priests sent 363 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 3: through church channels in nineteen seventy eight and nineteen eighty 364 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 3: nine seeking an investigation. The chief Vatican spokesman, Joaquin Navarovals 365 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 3: did not respond to repeated current requests by telephone, letter 366 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 3: and facts for comment. None of Missille's accusers has filed 367 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 3: legal action or sought financial compensation. They said, all they 368 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 3: seek is accountability for Missille's sexual misconduct. 369 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: That summer, I moved through the world like a sleepwalker, 370 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: caught in a carefully constructed bubble of ignorance, still tight 371 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: by the rules of our community. We didn't read the news, 372 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: not even my mother, who cured her faith in rain 373 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: Christie like a shield. She wasn't a consecrated woman, but 374 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 1: she was just as devoted. Unlike the legionary mothers, she 375 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: had been told to turn away from what the world 376 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: was saying. I won't read it that, not once, not 377 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: even out of curiosity. To her, the article was just 378 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: another attack from the Church's enemies, communists, atheists. She would 379 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: hush her friends when they whispered about it, wave off 380 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: headlines as lies, and I followed her lead. I wrapped 381 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: myself in the same fear, believing, believing, truly, that the 382 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:32,719 Speaker 1: only way to stay safe was to stay blind and 383 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 1: outside our walls. It seemed like the world was just 384 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: as hesitant. The story, to some very uncovered, should have 385 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: made headlines everywhere, but it didn't because even in nineteen 386 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: ninety seven, no one really wanted to believe it. 387 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 2: And when Jerry Renner called New York to the AP saying, 388 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 2: we have all these guys accusing the Pope of sheltering 389 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 2: a pedophile who's the founder of a religious order, and 390 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 2: he said, yeah, this is a Connecticut story. You know 391 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 2: this religious orders in Connecticut. Well he was trying to 392 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 2: He didn't win his argument. It didn't go out over 393 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 2: the international wire. 394 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: The United States wasn't all that interested in what was 395 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 1: happening with a relatively unknown Mexican priest in his seventies. 396 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: To most editors, it was a foreign story, distant, irrelevant, 397 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: a blip on the radar. But south of the border, 398 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 1: Jason's article hit differently. 399 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 2: It was also read extensively in Mexico. Laharanada did a 400 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 2: follow up, and there was an independent cable station that 401 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 2: reported a story. So you know there were people in 402 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 2: Mexico making a serious look at this. 403 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: After that event in Chicago, I started to wonder, to doubt. 404 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: I became, as they would say, a woman of failing faith. 405 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: Could it be true that Masille had done all those 406 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: things so many years ago that the Pope had known 407 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 1: and done nothing. Years later I would learn the truth. 408 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: Everything in that article was real. But what none of 409 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: us knew then, not even Jason, was that the story 410 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: in those pages wasn't the worst of it. Marsile was 411 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: hiding much darker secrets. That's next on Secret Scandal, The 412 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: Mini Secrets of marcill Mazille. The archival audio clips used 413 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: in this episode come from the OSCARS. The title of 414 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: the referenced news article comes from Hartford Current. Secret Scandal 415 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: The Many Secrets of Marcelle Masiel is a production of 416 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: a half podcast in partnership with iHeart Michael Doula podcast Network, 417 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: and is hosted by me Elena Sada, written by Menissa 418 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: Hendrix and alvalocez Pedes, Produced by alvaloce Pedes and Robert Tagarza. 419 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: Research and reporting by Robert t Garza, edited by Jasmine 420 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: Rometo with the help of Carmen Graterol. Fact checking by 421 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: Annapala Tovar. The vocal coach for me Elena Sada is Inadapia. 422 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: Executive producers at a har Podcast are Carmen gradov Isaac Lee, 423 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: and j h Ka. Mixing and sound designed by Patrick 424 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: and Jones. Original music by Darko and I Am based 425 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: on Patrick Hart's original composition. Executive producers that I heard 426 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: are Leo Gomez and Arlene Santana. Alexis Cardosa also serves 427 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: as producer. Circus Scandal was created by Melanie Bartley and 428 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 1: Paula Varos