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Speaker 1: Hey wan to welcome in. I'm Doug Gottliebis is all

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Speaker 1: ball and uh, what what I'm gonna do is, uh,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk a little about the Notre Dame job,

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Speaker 1: um and who I think when I think of the job,

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Speaker 1: obviously having played the place a long time ago and

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Speaker 1: things have changed some, but some of the challenges to

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Speaker 1: it and um, we'll get to that. With Mike Pray

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Speaker 1: announcing his retirement, I think you know that was a

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Speaker 1: force retirement that that it hasn't been nearly as good

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Speaker 1: of late, but that shouldn't take away from what an

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Speaker 1: incredible job he and his his staffs have done over

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Speaker 1: the years. But the reason I want to do that

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Speaker 1: more at the end is let's not bury the lead.

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Speaker 1: We got part two of Shaka smart Um. When we

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Speaker 1: last left Shaka Okay, he was down at Clemson. We

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Speaker 1: had taken his journey from high school in Wisconsin to

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Speaker 1: college in Ohio, than to starting the coaching in college

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Speaker 1: at California in in Pennsylvania and then on the Division

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Speaker 1: one basketball What led him to go to work for

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Speaker 1: Billy Donovan and from Billy Donovan, what did he learn

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Speaker 1: and when we think of his time with Billy d.

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Speaker 1: I think many people think, well he was there with

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Speaker 1: a back to back national championship years, like, No, that's

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Speaker 1: not the case. He was only at Florida for a year.

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Speaker 1: How do you get the VCU job? What was it

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Speaker 1: like to get the VCU job? Uh? There's so much

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Speaker 1: good stuff in here, and the feedback from you guys

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Speaker 1: at at Gottlieb Show, Twitter and Instagram has been incredible.

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Speaker 1: I truly appreciated. Let's get back to it. Here's part

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Speaker 1: two of my conversation with Marquette head coach Chaka Smart.

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Speaker 1: How did you get How did you get on? Billy staff?

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Speaker 1: Rob Lanier Um, who's a coach at s m U

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Speaker 1: uh and and a great guy, the most um convincing

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Speaker 1: person I've ever met. Rob in there if you haven't

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Speaker 1: come brilliant, Yeah, brilliant, brilliant. Um. So Rob called me

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Speaker 1: right around I think the final four of two thousand

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Speaker 1: and eight, and he said, you know we're gonna have

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Speaker 1: a job open. It's not open yet, um, but when

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Speaker 1: it does open, Um, I think I can get you

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Speaker 1: in there for the job. Are you interested? And I

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Speaker 1: had worked Billy's camp, so Florida was another camp that

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Speaker 1: I had worked as a young kid. In fact, Doug

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Speaker 1: I worked their camp the summer after they lost in

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Speaker 1: the National Championship game to Michigan State. Okay, so this

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Speaker 1: is Mike, Yeah, this is Udonis Haslem Rent right, Uh,

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Speaker 1: this is Teddy Dupey. This is a team that ended

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Speaker 1: my career. I'm completely aware of the of the they

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Speaker 1: had dudes they had. Uh was a kid that Justin Hamilton's.

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Speaker 1: Justin Hamilton's was a dude. He was so yeah we

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Speaker 1: we I made the personal decision in the scout to

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Speaker 1: not guard Justin Hamilton's. He was he was only a freshman,

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Speaker 1: but by not guarding him, like I don't know if

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Speaker 1: he instinctively or Billy told him to go to the

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Speaker 1: offensive glass and he had like four big offensive rebounds

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Speaker 1: and like, I never boxed anybody out a guard out

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Speaker 1: in my life because everybody gets back right, And it

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Speaker 1: really changed the game, and that he figured out how

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Speaker 1: we were kind of guarden. But they had I believe

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Speaker 1: seven Brent Nelson was on that team, right, Uh seven,

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Speaker 1: who is the Remind me real quick, I know his name?

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Speaker 1: Who is the lefty? He had left and gone to

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Speaker 1: the NBA Draft, went to the Dallas Mavericks, lefty freak athlete.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh my Donnel Harvey, Donnel Harvey. Yep, it

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Speaker 1: was one year. He was one and done. He was

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Speaker 1: a one and done like nobody talked about one and done.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, like we yhon seenors, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: gonna listen to the spot. A very good player is

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Speaker 1: a sophomories or starter. Were like Freddie every time he

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Speaker 1: gets it. He ain't shooting shot Bacon go and left

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Speaker 1: one trouble. He's gonna try and put you out sports Center.

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Speaker 1: Sure enough. Oh heck, guy was Oh my god, did

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Speaker 1: they have some dudes? And he came off the bench.

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Speaker 1: I believe yes, I mean that was I mean, you

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Speaker 1: had you done? Has some Mike Miller, Matt Bonter Rent

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Speaker 1: right right, they were loaded. So anyway, I worked the camp,

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Speaker 1: and uh, I have never I'd never been I've never

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Speaker 1: been more impressed with a basketball camp even since then.

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Speaker 1: It was like a factory. But it was really good

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Speaker 1: and their players, like every other camp, played pick up

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Speaker 1: when camp got done, like every other camp, but this

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Speaker 1: pickup was different. First of all, nobody else could play

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Speaker 1: so like when I worked at University of Dayton's camp,

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Speaker 1: I played pick up, you know, with the players. When

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Speaker 1: you go to other camps, you know, other guys could

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Speaker 1: come in, you know, different guys that played at Florida. No,

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Speaker 1: no one else was playing. They had I think eleven

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Speaker 1: guys on campus, um including I think one like former

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Speaker 1: player who was the kid named Shannon that could jump

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Speaker 1: out of the gym, um Eddie Shannon, Yes, could jump

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Speaker 1: out of the gym. Really good player. He's in. Yeah, ye,

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Speaker 1: really good guy. So anyway, these guys are playing and

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Speaker 1: I'm watching, and I'm twenty three years old, I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: an aspiring coach, and I'm watching these guys play pick up,

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Speaker 1: and Doug, they're this close to fighting. There was no fights,

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Speaker 1: but they're this close. And we're talking about Udonis has them. Uh, Brent, Right,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about summer pickup, right, that that's that's that's

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Speaker 1: the point. It's summer pick up. It's summer pickup. But

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Speaker 1: he was so impressive how competitive they were in pick

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Speaker 1: up after the damn basketball camp. And so I left

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Speaker 1: there with this reverence for Florida and for Billy and

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Speaker 1: for that program. And so now eight years later or whatever,

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Speaker 1: our seven or eight years later, Rob Lanier calls me

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Speaker 1: and he says, Hey, I think I can get you

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Speaker 1: in there for this job if you're interested. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: hell yeah. And so I went through an interview process

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Speaker 1: with Billy that was fascinating. You know, he's a unique

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Speaker 1: Billy is a unique guy from a lot of standpoints,

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Speaker 1: but when he interviews guys like he he's a processor.

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Speaker 1: It takes him a long time to like decide what

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Speaker 1: he wants to do. And I almost lost the job

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Speaker 1: very early in the process because they had me drive

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Speaker 1: down to St. Augustine, Florida, where he had a he

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Speaker 1: had a condo on the beach, and so we went

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Speaker 1: into the condo. He was Billy, a guy named Duke

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Speaker 1: Werner who's a long time trainer at Florida that had

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Speaker 1: the closest relationship with Billy of anyone and myself, and

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Speaker 1: so we're about to sit down and kind of talk,

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Speaker 1: and they offered me a beer. And I'm such a dumbass,

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Speaker 1: like I don't drink, Like I've never drank beer in

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Speaker 1: my life, Like I I when I was a young kid,

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Speaker 1: I was around someone who's an alcoholic and for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: that scarred me, like I ain't sucking drinking. Excuse my language.

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Speaker 1: So um he so he he as he asked me,

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Speaker 1: you know, do I want to drink a beer? I'm

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Speaker 1: like no, I'm good. I just have water. And that

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Speaker 1: that almost lost me the job right there. I mean

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Speaker 1: I almost didn't get the job because like, who's this guy?

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Speaker 1: Like he comes in here, he can't even have a

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Speaker 1: beer with us. But fortunately he still consider it. Me.

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Speaker 1: Um that with that team had what Kalaithis and Chandler Parsons, Right,

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Speaker 1: we had Kalaithi, Chandler Parsons. Jay Lucas was on the

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Speaker 1: team and he transferred midyear Irving Walker. Um we had

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Speaker 1: it was a young team. I forgot Jay Lucas was

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Speaker 1: on the team. Totally forgot. Yep. Jay was on the team,

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Speaker 1: and I'll never forget. Um he transferred after the first

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Speaker 1: exhibition game, so it actually it kind of cost him

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Speaker 1: that year's worth of eilges just playing in that exhibition game.

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Speaker 1: But um, it was a it was a young team

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Speaker 1: and Nick Klaithis was as good a pastor as I've

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Speaker 1: ever seen. Um we have a kid now, Tyler klick

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Speaker 1: that Yeah, it's probably right out there, and I know

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Speaker 1: you could pass with the best of them. But Nick Kolaiitis,

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Speaker 1: he he just had this vision about him, but he

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Speaker 1: still was just a sophomore. Channeler was just a sophomore,

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Speaker 1: and they were our two best players, and uh, they

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Speaker 1: probably didn't quite have the maturity yet to be on

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Speaker 1: Billy's level of competitive character. And so that was a

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Speaker 1: challenging a year. You know, Billy went to two n

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Speaker 1: i T s in a row after winning two back

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Speaker 1: to back championships, and so I was there for the

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Speaker 1: second n i T year and he was not in

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Speaker 1: a great place. Like he he was not particularly pleased with,

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Speaker 1: you know, just the team and where we were. And

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Speaker 1: I never forget Urban Meyer came to talk to our team.

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Speaker 1: Him and Billy were really close friends, and Urban was

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Speaker 1: so disgusted with the team, um just from watching us.

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Speaker 1: And he came in there and he said, the only

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Speaker 1: reason I'm talking to you guys is because I'm friends

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Speaker 1: with your head coach. Otherwise I wouldn't even waste my time.

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Speaker 1: And he was in the midst of two out of

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Speaker 1: three years winning a national championship. But I'll never forget

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Speaker 1: he had this great line that I used with our

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Speaker 1: guys all the time. He said the first level of

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Speaker 1: leadership is taking care of your own ship. You can't

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Speaker 1: be a leader and let's take you take care of

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Speaker 1: what you need to do. And so his point to

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Speaker 1: that team was like, man, take care of your own

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Speaker 1: stuff first, which I thought was a good team in

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Speaker 1: an area where we needed to grow for sure. Yeah

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Speaker 1: when did how did you think happened? Man? Uh? So

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Speaker 1: I was thirty one years old. I went down to Florida.

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Speaker 1: My I loved it at Florida. You know, my wife actually,

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Speaker 1: strangely enough, didn't particularly like Gainesville. Um, she likes like

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Speaker 1: most everywhere. But I loved it there. And working for

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Speaker 1: Billy was like it's like basketball camp for a coach,

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Speaker 1: Like it's it's both fun and intense and law hours,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's just so much so enjoyable. Um. And

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Speaker 1: he was really really good to me. So I did

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Speaker 1: not want to leave. And I felt really uncomfortable because

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Speaker 1: the a d from VCU Norwa T called. I had

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Speaker 1: known him from this program, the Villa seven that they

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Speaker 1: did for some coaches, and he said, do you want

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Speaker 1: to interview for the job? And so I called Billy

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, should I interview for this job? And

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Speaker 1: He's like, if you want do you want a job?

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Speaker 1: Do you want to interview for it? Up to you?

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Speaker 1: So I was like, I guess I'll interview for it.

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Speaker 1: So I interviewed you never interviewed Brad coaching job previous? No, never.

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Speaker 1: I'm thirty one, I'm listen, I'm the distant third assistant

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Speaker 1: at Florida. It's Larry Shyatt Robbling here and myself. So

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Speaker 1: I'm the young guy. I'm only you know, I've been

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Speaker 1: at Clemson two years, Florida a third year at that level.

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Speaker 1: And so I interviewed with nor Fatigue. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: how it went. Talked to him for a while, and

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Speaker 1: then the next day he calls me and he's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we'd like to fly you and my up to Richmond

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Speaker 1: and you know, just kind of see what the fit

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Speaker 1: is like with the president, what you think of VCU.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, holy shit. And it was not a

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Speaker 1: good feeling, duck like I didn't like I was ready

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Speaker 1: for it. Yeah, yeah, I was very uncomfortable, like um,

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Speaker 1: which I guess in retrospect it's a good thing, like

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Speaker 1: to be uncomfortable. But I was so happy and comfortable

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Speaker 1: being there at Florida and just learning from I felt

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Speaker 1: like I was learning so much from him, particularly the

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Speaker 1: mental side of the game. Like the people don't understand

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Speaker 1: about him, like he's definitely a X and O genius,

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Speaker 1: but the amount of time and attention he puts into

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Speaker 1: the psychological side of basketball. I don't know if he

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Speaker 1: did this when when you were there, because he told

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Speaker 1: me he did it late at Florida before he left.

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Speaker 1: I'll never forget. I was at CBS and it was

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Speaker 1: Kentucky's last regular season game when they went undepeated, and uh,

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Speaker 1: Billy's dad and my dad know each other from being kids,

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Speaker 1: and in my house, like we revered Billy Donovan because

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Speaker 1: I grew up on Big East basketball in California because

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Speaker 1: it's four o'clock every Monday, that's we watched anyway, So

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Speaker 1: and he's always been great to me. And he said

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Speaker 1: that's something that he did. And again, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if he did it when you were there, but he

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Speaker 1: started having players meet with a sports psychologist and then

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Speaker 1: they had group sessions as well in terms of psychologist discussions.

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Speaker 1: And it was because psychologist still dug it was it

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Speaker 1: was the psychology, right, It was a counselor. It was counseling,

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Speaker 1: and it was it was ingenius. And when I talked

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Speaker 1: to Billy all the time, uh he he always mentions,

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Speaker 1: I don't know why more college coaches don't have this

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Speaker 1: position on this, or at least there's a there, there's

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Speaker 1: a there's always been a taboo. There's always been a

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Speaker 1: taboo to right, Like coach Sutton sent me to a

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Speaker 1: sports psychologist for the shooting stuff, and it it helps them,

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Speaker 1: but again there was still kind of a taboo of like,

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Speaker 1: you know, like, oh you need help, what do you

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Speaker 1: you know? I mean, you know, like it's a guy

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Speaker 1: out the world and being vulnerable and talking about your

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Speaker 1: issues has never been something like go out there and play,

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Speaker 1: you know, figure it out, So I think, and like

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Speaker 1: he's a lot more evolved than so many people would

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Speaker 1: ever give anyone, you know, anyone credit. But yeah, like

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a gigantic part. I mean, I remember,

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Speaker 1: I remember it to this day. I was. I went

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Speaker 1: back there to kind of just sit with him, and

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Speaker 1: it ended up being like we talked for an hour

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Speaker 1: and we're talking five minutes about the kids and the players,

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Speaker 1: and the rest was about psychology, about all the things

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Speaker 1: you learned about people, yourself and the kids, and what

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Speaker 1: they learned about each other. That was it. Okay, I

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Speaker 1: gotta go broadcast the game. He's a genius. Um and

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Speaker 1: he's he's so curious about it, which is awesome because

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Speaker 1: he's he's already knows so much, but he's like, I

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Speaker 1: want to know more. Um So, anyway, I really didn't

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Speaker 1: want to leave. Wait. Wait, so so when you when

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Speaker 1: you when they say you want to fly up, like,

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Speaker 1: had you told me about the interview? Like what was Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I told yeah, we we we talked every day every

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Speaker 1: night about this stuff. But so when Norwood Tie called

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Speaker 1: me about coming up there, I called Billy again and

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Speaker 1: I said, coach, I said, I will not take this

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Speaker 1: job if you don't want me to. Like I've been

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Speaker 1: here for ten months. I didn't come down here to

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Speaker 1: like leave after a year, like I I I want

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Speaker 1: to be loyal to you, and I'll never forget you.

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Speaker 1: Gotta ask Billy about this next time you talk to him.

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Speaker 1: What he said to me? He said, he said shock.

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Speaker 1: He said, if you want to take the job, take

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Speaker 1: the job. If you leave, I'll get someone better than you.

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Speaker 1: It was awesome and so when we got on a plane,

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Speaker 1: I thought it was still like fifty fifty on whether

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Speaker 1: I was gonna get the job or you'd be offered

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Speaker 1: the job. And Doug, when you fly out of Gainesville,

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Speaker 1: you can only fly to two places. You can fly

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Speaker 1: to Charlotte or Atlanta. So we connected in Charlotte to

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Speaker 1: go to Richmond, vi Jua, where VCU is. And when

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Speaker 1: I got off the plane, I turned my phone on

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Speaker 1: and I got about a hundred and fifty messages congratulations

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Speaker 1: on the VCU job, Like I have been offered the job,

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Speaker 1: and I have been of the job, hadn't touched down,

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Speaker 1: hadn't hadn't met anybody, but that was I was the

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Speaker 1: coach of VCU at that point. Fox Sports Radio has

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Speaker 1: the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all

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Speaker 1: of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot com and

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Speaker 1: within the I Heart Radio app search f s R

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Speaker 1: to listen live. When you land in Richmond, Okay, Uh,

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Speaker 1: what do you remember about? Like what's that? What's that day?

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Speaker 1: Like a ship show? I mean it was it was

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Speaker 1: an absolute So my wife was with me. Um, but

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Speaker 1: as soon as we landed, they take my wife and

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Speaker 1: they kind of take around like a tour rich Man

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Speaker 1: and she's doing all this fun stuff. They take me

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Speaker 1: to meet the president. The president at the Times. The

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Speaker 1: guy the name of Eugene Troni, Dr. Troni. He's about

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Speaker 1: five ft five. He's the most intimidating five ft five

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Speaker 1: guy you can imagine. So he looks at me, and remember,

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Speaker 1: I'm replacing Anthony Grant, who was highly highly successful, great coach,

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Speaker 1: and Jeff Cable before him was definitely and these guys

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Speaker 1: had had kicked ass at VCU and and we're really

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Speaker 1: really well respected. And you know, a g is like

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Speaker 1: just an impressive figure, six ft five built, like you know,

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Speaker 1: so not just that, but he has a way in

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Speaker 1: which he's kind of quiet, and it's like he's figuring

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Speaker 1: everybody in the room out. Like it's one of those

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Speaker 1: things where like sometimes guys are quiet and you think

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Speaker 1: they're meek. This guy is quiet, like I don't want

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Speaker 1: to mess with him, and I want to impress him. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so I'm replacing him, and and so that the president

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Speaker 1: looks at me and he's like, you're awful young, he said,

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Speaker 1: But Norwood says. Norwood says, you're the I for the job.

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Speaker 1: So I trust Norwood he said, I just I need

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Speaker 1: you to understand this. He said, we have an eight

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Speaker 1: nine winning percentage in the Seagulls Center that was our home.

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Speaker 1: He said, we don't we don't lose at home. So

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Speaker 1: I just need you to know that. I said, okay,

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Speaker 1: So I kind of swallowed and uh. Then he said,

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Speaker 1: and in the past three years, coach Grant has won

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Speaker 1: and it was x percentage of his road games. And

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Speaker 1: because Anthony's winning percentage was ridiculous there and so I said, okay,

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Speaker 1: so okay, home games, road games. And then he said,

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Speaker 1: and we expect to be in the n c A

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Speaker 1: tournament as well. So this was and and again this

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Speaker 1: is all in the backshrop of being thirty one years

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Speaker 1: old and not really having an ultimate confidence that I

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Speaker 1: was ready to be a head coach. Um. But it

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Speaker 1: was an unbelievable learning experience my first year. You know,

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Speaker 1: messed a lot of things up, but learned a lot

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Speaker 1: of things. Tried to emulate Billy and Oliver and Keith

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Speaker 1: and the guys that I had worked for as much

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Speaker 1: as I could, Um, and you know, just just learned

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Speaker 1: a lot. So you get the job first, did you

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Speaker 1: own a home like Inclempson own a home in Florida

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Speaker 1: both yep, So how do you all those? Yeah? And

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Speaker 1: now did you handle any of that or did my

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Speaker 1: handle all of that? My wife, Maya is she is

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Speaker 1: a real estate star. Um. She's unbelievable at finding homes

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Speaker 1: and she loves it. Um and and so yeah, she

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Speaker 1: took care of all that. In fact, every time we've moved,

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Speaker 1: I never really come back. So, like I told you,

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Speaker 1: we got on a plane to go to uh Richmond

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Speaker 1: from from Gainesville. I never went back. Like literally, I

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Speaker 1: was there. She shipped me some more clothes and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. So she's the best when it comes to that.

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Speaker 1: So you when you get a head coach, so okay,

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Speaker 1: here's the weird thing, Like you would have taken the job,

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Speaker 1: they said, And then we're gonna pay a hunter grand

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Speaker 1: Like I don't care. I want to be a head coach.

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Speaker 1: What do you do? You negotiate how much it is?

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Speaker 1: They said, how much does it pay? And that's what

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Speaker 1: you take? No negotiation, it was, here's what you're getting. Um.

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Speaker 1: Didn't have an agent. You know. It's funny. All these

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Speaker 1: assistant coaches now have agents. Um. And and I tell

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Speaker 1: them like, hey, if you're fortunate to get a job,

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Speaker 1: you have no bargaining power, like you like your agent

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Speaker 1: isn't gonna be able to negotiate some great deal for

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Speaker 1: you in most situations. Now, if you go to that

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Speaker 1: job and you kill it, now it's different. Um, did

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Speaker 1: you give her any parameters on Hey, I'm a head

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Speaker 1: coach now, so I gotta have stay to have people

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Speaker 1: over or do you just like just find somewhere you're happy. Well,

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Speaker 1: the parameters where we just didn't have much money at

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Speaker 1: the time. Um. So we actually didn't buy a house

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Speaker 1: until my second or third year at VCU. And it

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Speaker 1: wasn't because we didn't want to buy a house. It

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Speaker 1: was just we were trying to, you know, collect some money.

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Speaker 1: But um we lived in a in a condo on

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Speaker 1: the tenth floor in downtown Richmond my first year and

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Speaker 1: it was great. I wouldn't trade that for the world.

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Speaker 1: And we we we only have one child. We have

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Speaker 1: a daughter. She was born at the in my third

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Speaker 1: year at vc U, so after we went to the

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Speaker 1: final four, she was born. And that obviously changes everything

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Speaker 1: for a for a coach. So you get the job,

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Speaker 1: how did you put together your staff? I got really

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Speaker 1: really lucky. UM. A guy named Mike Rhodes, who's the

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Speaker 1: head coach of E see you now. Um was the

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Speaker 1: head coach at Randolph Making. He had been like a

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Speaker 1: ridiculously good Division three player, national Player of the Year,

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Speaker 1: won a national championship, so I kind of knew about him.

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Speaker 1: He was I think four years ahead of me. UM

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Speaker 1: and Kevin Eastman called me Um and he said, would

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Speaker 1: you be interested in Mike Rhodes? And I said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've got a ton of respect for Mike Rhodes, but

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't know if he would take the job.

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Speaker 1: And he he said, he said, you should call him,

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Speaker 1: and so we ended up getting together and he was

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Speaker 1: the best UM assistant coach I've ever been around, particularly

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Speaker 1: for a young head coach like I was at the time,

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Speaker 1: because he had ten years worth of experience. UM. Will

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Speaker 1: Wade was on our staff. He was as good of

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Speaker 1: any as any head coaches or any assistant coaches I've

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Speaker 1: ever been around. I worked with him at Clemson and

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Speaker 1: I met him at Clemson when I went down there

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Speaker 1: the first time. I told you, I went with Oliver

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Speaker 1: for about four or five weeks. When he got the job.

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Speaker 1: Will was the most diligent young guy I've ever been around,

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Speaker 1: and the most UM smart, shrewd, hard working guy I'd

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Speaker 1: ever seen. UM. And then I worked with him when

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Speaker 1: I went back to Clemson as an assistant. So that

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Speaker 1: was an easy hire, just to to have a guy

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Speaker 1: with that type of work ethic and that type of

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Speaker 1: attention to detail. And then we hired a guy named

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Speaker 1: Bill Courtney who's been in the business for a long

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Speaker 1: long time. He ended up leaving after a month to

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Speaker 1: go to Virginia Tech UM, and so we were really

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Speaker 1: lucky in that when he left. Mike Jones, who's a

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Speaker 1: coach at u NC Greensboro, UM, was the coach that

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Speaker 1: we added, and he was just awesome. So UH just

406
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Speaker 1: had known him from being on the road. He was

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Speaker 1: at Georgia when I was at Florida and Clemson. He

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Speaker 1: had beaten us on a couple of recruits. When I

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Speaker 1: was a Clemson a kid named Travis Leslie broke my heart,

410
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Speaker 1: UM and went to Georgia over Clemson. So I always

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Speaker 1: respected Mike for the job that he did, and he

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Speaker 1: was in between jobs and and came to us the

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Speaker 1: staff was the best part of the job, UM, and

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Speaker 1: that's when you know that you've got a chance to

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Speaker 1: be successful. I think as a program is when the

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Speaker 1: staff really really gets along and enjoys being together and

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Speaker 1: it's kind of all on the same boats, growing in

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Speaker 1: the same direction. I mean, you look at a lot

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Speaker 1: of these staffs Doug on TV, and I've been in

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Speaker 1: this boat for sure, But you look at there's some

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Speaker 1: head coaches right now that they're looking at their staffs

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Speaker 1: and they don't know the guys, like they don't know

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Speaker 1: who they are, Like they're like hired guns or whatever.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not being critical of anyone. I'm just saying,

425
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 1: like there's a real power to having a connectivity and

426
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 1: an actual relationship with your staff. Hearing a guy hiring

427
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: a guy to get a guy like that is it's

428
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: it's been done and it's been successful, but it's tough.

429
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: It's tough. So okay, now you're putting together your staff,

430
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: how did you decide how you wanted to play? And

431
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,439
Speaker 1: like you said, you're all of these guys that you've played,

432
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: that you played for and coached with, right, but you've

433
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 1: never been a head coach. So how you do meetings?

434
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 1: You know who's doing offense, who's working the guards. Do

435
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 1: you do the Keith dan Brod thing and go in

436
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 1: the locker room after? How did you decide what you

437
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: want to do? Year one? Man, I was terrible at

438
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: delegating because I was used to doing so many things,

439
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: you know, just as an assistant, you just do it yourself. UM.

440
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 1: So I it took me a long long time. I'm

441
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 1: just now probably getting getting good at delegating UM. In

442
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 1: my press conference, I made us made a comment where

443
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: I said, we're gonna wreak havoc on our opponents. And

444
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, you know it was, it was important

445
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: to me in recruiting UM first in recruiting actually, which

446
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,959
Speaker 1: in retrospect, recruiting was not the most important part of this.

447
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: But this is how it kind of came up. Is

448
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: it's like, we gotta have something that's different, like something

449
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 1: that separates us. Were a mid major school and there's

450
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: all these and so I remember being in a meeting

451
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: with our staff and a friend of mine named Dave Tellip,

452
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:38,360
Speaker 1: who is a director of scouting for the spurs UM

453
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 1: and Dave used to come up and just kind of

454
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 1: help us brainstorm. I think Dave's is good of a

455
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: recruiting you know, consultant or or guy to have and

456
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: and so I said, well, you know, I did I

457
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: use that word in a press conference about a month ago, havoc.

458
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe that's something we can And that's kind of

459
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,640
Speaker 1: that how we we kind of got into using that

460
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: as an identity. And I knew I wanted to press

461
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: just because I love pressing. UM. Billy had done it,

462
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 1: Oliver had been so good at it. UM I loved

463
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: it when I played, And so we tried to take

464
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: a lot of the things that Anthony had done because

465
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: obviously Anthony was a Florida guy, so a lot of

466
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:27,719
Speaker 1: the stuff he was running was Billy's stuff. UM. The

467
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 1: challenging thing was the best player in school history was graduating, UM,

468
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: Eric Mayner, who was a really really good player. But

469
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: then we had a bunch of other really good players back,

470
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 1: but they weren't Eric Mayner, and they wanted to beat him,

471
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: but they weren't. So I, you know, I had to

472
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: kind of figure out, along with our staff how to

473
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: make that work. UM. But that's how we kind of

474
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: settled on just Hey, we're gonna go after. We're gonna

475
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 1: be as aggressive as we can. And that word really

476
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: helped us with clarity in terms of how we're gonna

477
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: play your first games. You've never been a head coach,

478
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: and obviously did the exhibition games. Well, you remember about

479
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: it not much. I mean I just remember winning the game.

480
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: I remember, you know, us not necessarily playing the best. Um.

481
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: I've always been really um critical of myself after games. Yeah,

482
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: so I remember that. Um. And then I remember, you

483
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: know that some really really dear friends and and our

484
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: a d nor would put together like a reception for

485
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 1: me after the game to kind of celebrate my first game.

486
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: So I remember that. But I'll tell you this our

487
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: second game, Western Michigan, and I mean, if you coach

488
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: long enough, you go through these type of games. I

489
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: believe we were up sixteen and then lost by double figures,

490
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 1: so like it was like a thirty point swing three. Yeah, so,

491
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: I mean the wheels completely fell off of that, uh

492
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: in that game. And so at that time at VCU,

493
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: we we didn't charter all the games, but that was

494
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: one game that we did charter too. So we flew back,

495
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: we got back really really late at night, and I

496
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: never forget Doug the next morning. Um. So it's my

497
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: first I've always I told you when I was a

498
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: young kid, and and throughout my coaching as as assistant,

499
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: I've always struggled with losing. I've always had a really

500
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: hard time, and even to the point where some of

501
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: the head coaches that I worked for when I was

502
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: assistant and this, I looked back and I'm so mad

503
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: at myself about this. It's is so self centered looking

504
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: back on it. Some of the head coaches I worked for,

505
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: they felt so bad for me, like but they were

506
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: the head coach because they knew how I took it.

507
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,719
Speaker 1: So anyway, we lost that game, and it didn't sleep much.

508
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: I'm just tossing and turned and didn't sleep really at all.

509
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: And so the next day, we're getting ready to play

510
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: Oklahoma in three days. The alarm goes off six in

511
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: the morning. I gotta get up, and I was like paralyzed.

512
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 1: I couldn't get out of bed. I was paralyzed, man.

513
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: And so we're in this condo that we were staying in.

514
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: My wife was already awake. She walks back into the

515
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: bedroom at about six thirty. I'm still there, my eyes

516
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: are open. I couldn't get out of bed. I was

517
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: paralyzed with just anxiety and fear and self doubt and uh,

518
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: just a lot of nay ittive stuff. Yeah, and my

519
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: assess to me, get the hell up, what's wrong with you?

520
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: Get up? He lost a game? Did you think you're

521
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 1: gonna win every game? And it was really it was

522
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: a good It was good. It was great advice. So

523
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: I got up and and man, I remember that next practice.

524
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: I did not you talk about coaching confidence. I did

525
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: not have much confidence walking into the locker room to

526
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: talk to that team because again after losses, like I

527
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: I always like put it on myself. And um, those

528
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: guys were great. I mean just the way that they were.

529
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: We it was fortunately were playing Oklahoma cables a coach,

530
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:48,959
Speaker 1: they were naturally ranked. It was that they had Willie

531
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: Warren and Tiny Gallen Tommy Mason Griffin had a good

532
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: team and talented team. They had a talented team, a

533
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: talented team, and they am in and and and our

534
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: guys were awesome. We we want uh pretty pretty handily.

535
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: And uh uh. That was my first lesson as a

536
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: head coach, in like you can still win, Like even

537
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: though something messed up just happened, you lost the game,

538
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: you can still win the next game. You're okay hanging there.

539
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: What was your first game against Richmond like we want? Uh,

540
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: it was. That's a heck of a robbalry. And you know,

541
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: being a part of rovalry games is so much fun.

542
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: But again, as a coach, it's really easy to fall

543
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: into an avoidance goal of like not wanting to lose

544
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: when you're because you just don't want to let people down.

545
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: That's the biggest thing in the ribbalry because it means

546
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: so much to people. You don't want to let them down.

547
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: So it was it was an odd game and that

548
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: we had two players that weren't necessarily our best players

549
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: that just had the out of body experiences and we're

550
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: just that they played terrific. And again, it's one of

551
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: the millions of times where I've been humbled as a

552
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 1: coach and I've been reminded that it ain't about me

553
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,240
Speaker 1: and I'm not the one affecting to win. Those guys

554
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 1: just played out of their mind and we won. How so,

555
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: I mean just just because that wasn't even the plan,

556
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 1: like you and and they just they just did it

557
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: on their own. No, I mean, I didn't know that

558
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 1: those guys were gonna go in the game, And I

559
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 1: mean we had this guy's We had a guy named

560
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 1: Terence Santill. It was like a backup big and he

561
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 1: comes in the game and you know how sometimes when

562
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 1: a guy comes in the game and you can just see, man,

563
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: he's got some pop tonight. Yeah that's real. And he

564
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: just had it. I mean he looked like he was

565
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: he was in fast forward. So he played his ass off.

566
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: And then then we had a senior named t J.

567
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: Gwen who was kind of a so early older guy

568
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: I played for. I think he might have played for

569
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 1: three coaches. He might have played for Capel, two have

570
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 1: been recruited by Capel, played for a g and didn't

571
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: really you know, it wasn't so bought into everything we

572
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: were doing all the time, didn't. I don't know if

573
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: he really bought me as a young coach, but man,

574
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: that night he was phenomenal at a great game. So

575
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: it's just it's humbling because you don't plan those sorts

576
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: of things out and when they happen, you're able to

577
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: go win the game. And when they don't happen, or

578
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,240
Speaker 1: when they happen for the other team, it's gonna be tough.

579
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: That team ends up going to the CIA championship game

580
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 1: where you play Old Dominion. You'd split with o du

581
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 1: that year, beat him at home, just like your president said,

582
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 1: when your home games, when your home games lose to him,

583
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 1: last game of the year, you lose to him on

584
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: the road, you win too in the in the fresh

585
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: tournament En Richmond at the Colosseum, you you play them.

586
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: Take me to that game, man, it's one of a

587
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,720
Speaker 1: handful of games that I would love to have back. Um,

588
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: we were up twelve with I don't know ten minutes

589
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: left to go, and uh, they just went you forgive me,

590
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: forgive me, I didn't. I forgot to Look when you

591
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: come since you guys go to the NTA tournament, yes, yep,

592
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: my last year yep. Okay, So you've been there once, right,

593
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: I don't think you did. You go with Akron Nope,

594
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: and I t and you didn't go with Florida. Right. See,

595
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: you've been there once, but your first year as a

596
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: head coach, Like when you wake up in the morning,

597
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 1: is that in your mind like when this thing we

598
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: go to them in the tournament? Or is it simply

599
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 1: you know you're a This is how we beat him,

600
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 1: This is how we lost him. Here's what we wanna do.

601
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: How does your brain work when you wake up the

602
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: morning of the champion game. It's more, it's more just

603
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: how do I get the guys in the best place

604
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 1: for them? And that's that is a thousand percent Billy

605
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: Donovan influence. Um, So, like it's not even about like

606
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: obviously you want to win, you want to go, You're

607
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: thinking about all that stuff, but it's you're thinking about

608
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 1: a million uh personnel factors that that that are that

609
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 1: are going to impact the outcome of the game. We

610
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: had this kid named Larry Sanders, who is one of

611
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: the most talented guys that I ever coached, and just

612
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: an awesome young man, but very very emotional. You know,

613
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: it came from a tough, tough background, and um, you know,

614
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 1: when Anthony left a lot of those guys on that

615
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: team were just extremely upset, um the way that I

616
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: was when my coach left when I was in college,

617
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 1: and so that first year sometimes they took that out

618
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: on me as the as the next coach. Um, But

619
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,919
Speaker 1: I just I wanted to try to help Larry being

620
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 1: being a good place. He was dealing with what so

621
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: many young talented players deal with, which is all the

622
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: outside forces trying to get to him, and he didn't

623
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 1: have necessarily the greatest support system around him, so they

624
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 1: didn't necessarily shield them from it. And I'm a young

625
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: head coach. I wasn't the greatest in knowing how to

626
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: handle all that stuff. Um, And I just remember thinking

627
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: after that season, Man, I wish I I could have

628
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: done a better job helping him. He ended up being

629
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: the fifteenth pick in the draft, left early after his

630
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 1: junior year. Um. And then you know, interestingly enough, he

631
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 1: leaves early, and then the guys that we have coming

632
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: back go to the Final four, which is so okay.

633
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: So let's so go to that game. So you're up

634
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: how many of the first half? We're up twelve with

635
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: about ten twelve minutes ago? What happened? Man? Um? Od

636
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: you was a really physical team. Blaine Taylor was a

637
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 1: phenomenal coach. I mean, really really good. I'll tell you

638
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 1: he's still and I called him about this. I've asked

639
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 1: him about this a couple of times recently. He had

640
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:29,959
Speaker 1: this way of going to zone defense about midway through

641
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: the first half, and if it didn't work very well,

642
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: he would get out of it. But about half the

643
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: time it would kind of throw the other team off

644
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 1: and he would stay in it through the rest of

645
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: the half. Now, it isn't that weird zone that those

646
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 1: Montana dudes run where it's like the slides on one

647
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: side of like one three one, the slides on the

648
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: other side are are are different? Right, Yeah, it's it's

649
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: got a couple of different zones. But yes, it was

650
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: actually I actually think, to be honest with you, and

651
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: you could ask Blaine, I think it's only one zone.

652
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 1: It's it's side based on the side of the court.

653
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: Because my brother was at Oregon State with Wayne Tinkle

654
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 1: and they ran that zone when they went to the

655
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: n c A tournament and he was trying to explain

656
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: it to me, was like, I don't understand anything what

657
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: you're talking about. That's like two different defenses, like exactly.

658
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: And it was really more it's not like even that

659
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: it was this great zone, but it was more psychological.

660
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 1: And man, I look back now, like now we just

661
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: run our man offense against zone, like I don't overrespect

662
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: what they're in or overthinking. I mean, there's a couple

663
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: of things you do differently with spacing against zone. But

664
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 1: at that time, as a young coach, We're trying to

665
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: run all these like zone sets, you know, and sometimes

666
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 1: when we played them, it really messed with us mentally.

667
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: And so then when they would start the second half,

668
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: they would they would start in man to man, but

669
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: you knew at some point the zones him and again,

670
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 1: and when we had that lead they went to zone.

671
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:05,839
Speaker 1: We had some really good looks. I remember we had

672
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:07,800
Speaker 1: a couple of wide open threes to to push the

673
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: lead to fifteen that we missed. And uh, you know,

674
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: they just I'll played us down the stretch. What's the

675
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: feeling like, I mean, here here you are the guy

676
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: who doesn't like to talk to people after you lose,

677
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: and you lost in overtime. Um, the guys trashed the

678
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: locker room. Um in the Richmond Calosseum. Uh. You know,

679
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 1: it's interesting because people use the word like winning and

680
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 1: losing with class. But sometimes when people you know, lose

681
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: and they don't necessarily demonstrate class, it's because they really care.

682
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: Like it's because and sometimes when you look when somebody

683
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: loses there win, like maybe they don't care as much.

684
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 1: And so like, give me the guys that care. Like,

685
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 1: so we had this kid, Joey Rodrigue us that he like,

686
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 1: he just couldn't stand it that we that we lost

687
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,879
Speaker 1: to them, and so he just you know, those guys

688
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 1: didn't handle it very well, But I'd rather have guys

689
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 1: like that. Um. How important was the cb I to

690
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: what she ended up doing next year? Yeah? So we

691
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 1: we we on selection Sunday or that week leading up

692
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: to it. I was calling the no that was the

693
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 1: next year. I'm sorry, I'm getting my years messed up.

694
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: We we thought we were gonna make the n I

695
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: t okay that year because we had the best r

696
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 1: p I at the time of any team that wasn't

697
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 1: like that wasn't gonna make the n c A Tournament,

698
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:56,800
Speaker 1: And we didn't make it. At that time, the n

699
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: I t was a little biased, if you remember, um,

700
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 1: and because they got there trying to make money to

701
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 1: try and get people watch TV. Right, It's not about

702
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 1: who the best is, right, Yeah. So it was a

703
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 1: terrible the juxtaposition of that selection Sunday versus the next year,

704
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: it was like heaven and hell. Um, And so we

705
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: get so the A D is like our A D.

706
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 1: Norwood's like, do you want to play in this cb I,

707
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: You need to pay to play in the cb I, right,

708
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: you gotta pay, you gotta pay money for home games,

709
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I don't know, Uh yeah, I mean,

710
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: and our players did not want to play. They called

711
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 1: it they can't believe it CB, I can't believe it.

712
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 1: So we got the n i T that not invited

713
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 1: terms like or the we we were called the Nebraska Invitational. Yeah, yeah,

714
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: because Nebraska always went to the i T. So um

715
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,800
Speaker 1: we played g W in the first game I believe

716
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 1: it was, and it was like a straight pickup game.

717
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: I mean, it was talk about captive audience. Neither team

718
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 1: had a neither coach at captive audience that day. But

719
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 1: what happens when you get in those tournaments, and this

720
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: happened competitively because we were in the n i T

721
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 1: one year at Texas and we we ended up winning it.

722
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 1: When you once you've played the first game, if you win,

723
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:28,399
Speaker 1: the guys are like, we might as well win. We're

724
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 1: in it to win, and so it was cool. We actually,

725
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 1: you know what's cool about the c B I S

726
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 1: The championship is the best two out of three and

727
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: we got to play against Rick mcgari's and St. Louis,

728
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:46,879
Speaker 1: who obviously the Marquette connection. Now, but Rick mcgared says,

729
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,319
Speaker 1: I mean, one of the best basketball minds of all time,

730
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: and we beat them at home. And so now we're

731
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 1: going to St. Louis and we're gonna play one or

732
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: two games. They're depending on if we win the first one.

733
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: And our guys played their asses off in the first

734
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 1: game in St. Louis and we win to win the championship.

735
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: And then I find out later the reason that they

736
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 1: said they played their asses off is because they did

737
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: not want to stay in St. Louis for three days.

738
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: They wanted to get back to Richmond again. A million,

739
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 1: million and one humbling moments in coaching. All right, there's

740
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: part two. Um, we will be dropping parts three and

741
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: four next week. Also, I don't want to jinx this,

742
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,439
Speaker 1: but Tyler Hansbro told me he he do one next week.

743
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 1: So Psycho T, who's been in the news recently where

744
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 1: John Wall said that Psycho T blew him off and

745
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 1: that's why he went to Kentucky. I don't I don't

746
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 1: buy that story, but I'll let I'll let Tyler tell

747
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: his version of the story when he joined. So this

748
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 1: is the podcast we want. I've been sending this and

749
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: Joe Golden to so many people, and I know many

750
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 1: of you have loved it. I wanted to drop this

751
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: one on a Friday, so many of you go into

752
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,439
Speaker 1: a game on a Friday night, we're traveling back from

753
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:11,839
Speaker 1: we're going on. You know, if you're recruiting, if you're

754
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 1: a college coach on the over the weekend, this is

755
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: your source. UH really quickly on the Notre Dame job. Obviously,

756
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 1: Mike Brady did a very good job. I think it

757
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: was helped after John McCloud got fired and Matt Doherty

758
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 1: came in. They let Matt Dohorty take a transfer. That

759
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: transfer was was Ryan Humphrey. Hump now, by the way,

760
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 1: has gone from Notre Dame as an assistant to UH

761
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:35,760
Speaker 1: being on staff at the University of Oklahoma. And that's

762
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 1: that's interesting. That's interesting because you know, you look at

763
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: the guys who could take over at at Notre Dame,

764
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: the guys that that fit right, Um, I think one

765
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,879
Speaker 1: of the guys that fits what they need, how well

766
00:46:54,920 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 1: he's done, how he purports himself, style of basketball, etcetera.

767
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: And I think fit's probably better than where he is

768
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 1: currently is port Mosher and Porter obviously took a litle

769
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: Chicago to the Final four, and he's been They've been

770
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 1: good at Oklahoma. It's just, you know, his style of basketball,

771
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 1: you know, where I think, truth be told, he'd like

772
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 1: to play a little bit more physical, little bit more

773
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:24,720
Speaker 1: pack lioney defensively, um than than how they played Oklahoma.

774
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: And they're going to the SEC, which is a crazy

775
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: athletic league, but it is not nearly as I don't

776
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 1: want to see methodical and you know, but I don't

777
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 1: know if the basketball i Q element to it, the

778
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 1: physicality element to it that he teaches and preaches and

779
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 1: buys into is as a much lighter like its personality.

780
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 1: He's not Majarison anyway, right, but basketball style, there's a

781
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: lot of majaris to it. I just I think that

782
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,479
Speaker 1: one might fit a bit better. And then you gotta

783
00:47:56,520 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 1: take in the idea of Frand McCaffrey. Fred mcfre you

784
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,919
Speaker 1: obviously has been kind of an institution at Iowa. Before that,

785
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: crazy successful at Sienna for that successful UNC greensbro and

786
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: before that a long time assistant at Notre Dame. So

787
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 1: he's been a successful head coach. His wife, Margaret is

788
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 1: was a great player at Notre Dame. They have incredible

789
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 1: connections there and thoughtly the Iowa thing has burned out,

790
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 1: but you know his uh, you know, we'll see what

791
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 1: happens with Patrick coming back. But obviously Patrick could come

792
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: with him. You know, Connor is um in his in

793
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 1: his last year playing. I just I don't know. I

794
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 1: haven't talked to them, but I do think that that

795
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 1: one would be one where you look at how you

796
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 1: have to recruit that Notre Dame to be successful. Um California,

797
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 1: he signed me out of California, has got great connections.

798
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 1: You got a national recruit, but you also got a

799
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,799
Speaker 1: recruit in Philly where he grew up and played, got

800
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 1: a cruit in New York where he's been really successful.

801
00:48:56,840 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 1: You gotta recruit in um instact. I go in the

802
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: Catholic school leagues in d C as well, and and

803
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 1: you know that's kind of his jam. So I think

804
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 1: his style of play fits with how they want to play.

805
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 1: But more than anything like Notre Dame is a kind

806
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: of unique place academically, you've gotta be able to get in,

807
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 1: but stay in a lot of things to it. I

808
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 1: think Fred McCaffrey will be a good uh good guy.

809
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 1: Marty Ingelsby, who of course he recruited to bring the

810
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 1: Notre Dame will be another guy, Chris Quinn. I don't

811
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 1: think they did the NBA thing, but you never know.

812
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 1: With with Jack Swarbick, those are all guys with Notre

813
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 1: Dame ties. And I think that you know a guy

814
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 1: who I'm a fan of and he's the head coach

815
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: at my university, Mike Boyton, because of his ability to

816
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 1: he's obviously shown he can recruit in Texas, but you know,

817
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: he's a New Yorker and Notre Dame is still something

818
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 1: in New York. And I think that that Mike might

819
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 1: bring a certain appeal because he is and you know,

820
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:57,959
Speaker 1: you don't want to lose him, but he has uh,

821
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: he has an incredible way with pep. You know, he's

822
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: just one of those guys you walk away going like damn,

823
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: he's that's like good dude. It's a really good dude.

824
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: So that that's kind of my general list. I know,

825
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 1: Pat Kelsey's killing it at College of Charleston and his

826
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 1: success and and how people feel abou him at Xavier

827
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,399
Speaker 1: isn't important because since that he's a very big Notre

828
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 1: Dame area. Tons of Notre Dame people there, so I

829
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 1: think we're all kind of circling around about the same guys.

830
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 1: Wouldn't be crazy to think Dusty May would be in

831
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: the mix, because you know, the White family has employed

832
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 1: him as both assistant coach and now he said as

833
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: at his athletic director at at Florida Atlantic and remember

834
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:42,359
Speaker 1: um that uh their ties to to Notre Dame as well.

835
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 1: So those that's kind of the working my working list.

836
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 1: What I'm thinking in my head, I'm probably missing a

837
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,839
Speaker 1: guy or two. And despite you know how it ended

838
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:50,319
Speaker 1: it Notre Dame, I think the world of the place.

839
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 1: I do think they're in the wrong league because it's

840
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 1: great at school. As Notre Dame is small, private, high

841
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 1: academic institution, it actually mirrors you know, a lot of

842
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 1: the schools they play against, and it's like Virginia has

843
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 1: kind of got a rolling Granted I know that's not

844
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 1: small and private, but high academics. So Virginia is it's

845
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 1: closer to kids in d C, closer to kids on

846
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 1: the Eastern Ceaboard, and a lot of the same you know,

847
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 1: they're they're recruiting same student athletes and you look, you know,

848
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 1: Stanford may make a change. Its Western may make a change.

849
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 1: Private high academic schools are struggling right now in the

850
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,800
Speaker 1: new world order. More than anything, though, I want to

851
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: make sure I I congratulate um shot a smart on

852
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 1: how they've been playing, but and thank him for doing

853
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 1: this pot. He's been so awesome And like again he's

854
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:39,439
Speaker 1: promised three or four. We're gonna deliver three and four

855
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 1: sometime next week. I hope you have a great weekend,

856
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: enjoy the hoops. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is all ball.