1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: of My Heart Radio and Unboss Creative. I'm Bridget Todd 3 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. 4 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 1: Did you know the trash can logo, the sad mac icon, 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: and all the other Apple logos and typography they made 6 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 1: up the look and feel of early personal computing was 7 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: actually designed by a woman. On the Stuff Mom Never 8 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: Told You Podcast, where I'm a tech correspondent, we did 9 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: an episode for Women's History Month that was really fun 10 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 1: because I got to talk about Susan Care, an influential 11 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 1: Apple designer and one of my favorite women in tech, 12 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 1: and I had such a good time that I wanted 13 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: to share it with all of you. Listen to me 14 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: alongside Stuff Mom Never Told You co hosts Annie and 15 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: Sam for a deep dive into the lasting legacy of 16 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: Susan Care, the artist behind Apple. Hey, this is Annie 17 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: and welcome to Stephane Never Told You production of I 18 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Today, We're so thrilled to be joining the 19 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: virtual studio space by our friend and colleague Bridget Todd. Hello, 20 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: Bridget Hello, I'm so excited to be back here with 21 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: you all. Say we missed you. Welcome back. Thank you. 22 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,479 Speaker 1: Thank you. I missed you too. As always, we know 23 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: we know you're constantly going well. I can always make 24 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: room for my two favorite ladies. Yes, we were discussing 25 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: before this. We're very excited for this topic, particularly because 26 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: we have different levels of experience when it comes to 27 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: computers and technology, and in this case, Samantha, you're saying 28 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: you don't know mac very well. No, I am so 29 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: not in the loop. I've never used the Mac. I 30 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: don't have an iPhone. I'm so far away from those products. 31 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: And I'm a little scared of it because every time 32 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: I've been on Friends, I literally look at it and 33 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: touch a button, something goes around and I hand it 34 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: right back. I'm like, I'm sorry. You're like I launched 35 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: a missile. I don't know what. I'm sorry. I'm pretty 36 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: sure I just started to war somewhere. I'm so sorry too, 37 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: because my phone is a swipe And one time my 38 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: friend handed me her her phone and it was like, 39 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: can you texas message? And it was not a swipe 40 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: and I stared at it, like, this makes no sense 41 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: to me. I cannot figure this. Yeah, when its like technology, 42 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: when you're used to one way and then you try 43 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: to figure out something else. I feel like it's a trap. 44 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: It's so true, it's so true. So I use an iPhone. 45 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: Most of my friends do not use iPhones that use 46 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: like Google pixels. When I am handed at Google Pixel, 47 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: it does not matter how many times I have been 48 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: schooled and how to do the most the most basic stuff. 49 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,359 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about anything advanced. I have to ask that, wait, 50 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: is it this? Is it that? Every time? Whatever? Right, 51 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: which actually relates really well to what we're we're talking 52 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: about today. So who did you bring for us to 53 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: discuss bridget So today we're discussing Susan Care. I'm so 54 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: excited to talk about her, mostly because so it's Women's 55 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 1: History months, and so I think it's a good time 56 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: to honor women who, you know, maybe don't always get 57 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: a lot of the loud public support. And also the 58 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: fact that Susan Care, despite being very much part of 59 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: tech history, she's still alive. She's still with us. I'm 60 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: a big believer in giving people their flowers while they're 61 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: still alive to smell them, and so not waiting until 62 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: someone is no longer here to be like, oh, I 63 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: loved their work. I loved their work but celebrating their 64 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: achievements and their legacy while they're still here. She's very 65 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: much still in tech, making tech history as we speak. 66 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: And I also just feel like sometimes I come on 67 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: the show and I bring topics that are a little negative, 68 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: because let's face it, sometimes being a woman on the 69 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: Internet is not that fun. But there's also lots of fun, joyous, cool, 70 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: quirky aspects of it as well. So I'm super excited 71 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: to talk about Susan Care. Yes, and I never heard 72 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: about her story, and I loved it so much because, um, 73 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: I know we've talked before on the show a lot 74 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: about women in technology space and now there is often 75 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: that these negative aspects to it are being intimidated off 76 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: of it in various ways. And as somebody who's really creative, 77 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: like where my cosplay closet as I call it in here, 78 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 1: but like I love the application of how she got 79 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: into technology. I think it is such a great story. Yes, yes, 80 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: so let's get into it. I mean, so, if you've 81 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: ever spent any time around not just Max but computers 82 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:42,679 Speaker 1: in general, you've probably encountered Susan Care's work for her legacy. 83 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: So first and foremost, I should say if you have 84 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: not seen a picture of her, there's an iconic picture 85 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: of her with this like awesome eighties blown out curly 86 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: hair and a sweatshirt and these like amazing new balanced sneakers, 87 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: with her sneakers kicked up on her desk at her 88 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 1: old school you he y'all please google a picture of 89 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 1: her because it is iconic and truly just this one picture. 90 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: I saw it on the subreddit old school Cool. I 91 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 1: was like, who is this woman? I have to look 92 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: her up and find out everything about her. She is amazing. Yes, 93 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 1: it's so effortlessly cool in a way that I will 94 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: never achieve. Like. I saw it and I was like, wow, 95 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: I mean like, I'm looking at it right now. I 96 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: have to google it, and I'm like, this is kind 97 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 1: of what people want to look like today. I saw 98 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: the outdated computers in the background, which, by the way, 99 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,359 Speaker 1: I use those in elementary school, so don't start with me. 100 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: B like she, I'm like, no, you are. She is 101 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 1: exactly what people are like, Oh, we want to look 102 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: like this. This is such a great throwback, and she 103 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: looks so comfortable, so relaxed and ridiculously cool. I want 104 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: to be this cool. Yes, she is like an advertisement 105 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: forever Lane, like I feel like the norm core like 106 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: vibes of like oh baggy, baggy sweatshirt and like like 107 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: relaxed fit. Geez, she's brocting it. Honestly, you could wear 108 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: the wellfit that she's wearing, a nineteen eighty whatever this 109 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: photo was taken. You could work today and people would 110 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: be like, Oh, cool outfit, That's what I'm saying, Like, 111 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,679 Speaker 1: this outfit looks so comfortable. But again, yeah, she looks 112 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 1: so freaking stylish, and I'm like, I don't want to 113 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: be back here in this fashion because I did wear 114 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: that once upon a time, and that was when it 115 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: was supposed to be cool, when I was a young baby. 116 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: So I love that. So Susan Care she designed a 117 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: huge part of the digital infrastructure of using a Mac 118 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: computer back in the eighties, and so I'm talking all 119 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: of the font all of the typography, and all of 120 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: the little icons. And so if you ever remember the 121 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: little happy Mac when you booted up a computer, like 122 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 1: the little computer with a smiley face, that was seems 123 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: in Care the concept of the icons for your computer 124 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 1: sort of matching up with the thing that you were 125 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: going to do. Even if you don't use a Mac, 126 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,919 Speaker 1: even if you use a PC. That's still a concept 127 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,119 Speaker 1: that we use today. So she really was an early 128 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: architect of how being online sort of looked and felt, 129 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: and then also just sort of the concept that sort 130 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: of how we conceptually move around and we're using a computer. 131 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: And it's funny because I had also never heard of her. 132 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: I've been using a Mac for most of my life. 133 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: It was like the first computer that we had in 134 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: our home when I was a kid, like in what 135 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: my parents called the computer room, where like you could 136 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: you could never bring a snack or a drink or 137 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: my my dad would kill you was a Mac. And 138 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: I had never even heard of her, even though she 139 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: had shaped such a big part of my online experiences 140 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: both as a child and today. So I really excited 141 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: to be, you know, giving her a little bit of 142 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: shine because that's that's so iconic that she, you know, 143 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: was that architect of that the whole story that I 144 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: had about this like this happy Mac and the one 145 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: reason I kind of know what that is now I've 146 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: seen the other things. I've seen the watch well icon before. 147 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of these are associated to 148 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: me as something bad is about to happen because I 149 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: did something wrong. Signs usually because the one episode that 150 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: I remember with Insect in the City, Yeah, we're gonna go. 151 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: You're don't talking about where her Mac crashes and she 152 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: gets a sad Mac and the dude keeps telling her 153 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: you got the sad Mac. Sorry, you can't fix it, 154 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: and this whole conversation about the sad Mac, and I'm like, 155 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: why does it have to be a sad mag? And 156 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: then the dead Man because I've got the ex is 157 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: all that I said about how angry it looks. I 158 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, that does not make me want to 159 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: get a mac. Yeah if I feel like that episode 160 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: probably scared a lot of people. Also, fun fact, that 161 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: is how deep my Sex in the City knowledge goes 162 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: the guy who tells her about at the computer store 163 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: Ausu Mandy from The Daily Show. Yes, yes, yes, so 164 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: I Oh, he's a comedian. I love it when they 165 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: bring in comedians that you really know but you always 166 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: know their face. Love it, love it, and you gotta 167 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: hop on board. This is what you're missing out when 168 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: you haven't seen Sex in the City and he's never 169 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: seen it. She seen like two episodes. I've seen one 170 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: of the first episode, and that's it, really, girl, what 171 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: are you putting on in the background while you're doing 172 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 1: something else? Like, what are you putting on in the 173 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: background when you're doing the dishes? Come on, I'm ready, 174 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: I want to I want to embark on this journey. 175 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: I'm just a little nervous, but so Bridget when we 176 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: have our Sex in the City, we're gonna do a 177 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: watch and like kind of live watching, live viewing party. 178 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: You want join us, yes, of course, you know, And 179 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: they're getting ready to make another view of that movie, 180 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: which I mean, I have a love hate relationship with 181 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 1: Sex in the City and that you look back and 182 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: you're like, well this was problematic or like well this 183 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: is not good, but there's just something about it where 184 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: I'm like, I know, I'll probably watch it, Like I 185 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: know they're they're they're like, you'll take this like problematic 186 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: movie with like a bunch of lazy puns, like just 187 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: taking it like I know what I want. But I mean, 188 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 1: like Sarah Jessica Parker's character Carrie that Mac at the 189 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: very beginning, like at all other things, like the fact 190 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: that she carries it around like is her treasure, Like 191 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: she carries it as just like she and the Mac 192 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: go hand in hand. The show her work. I feel 193 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: it's grounded around the man act. Like you kept watching 194 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,559 Speaker 1: the episode towards the end when she moved to Paris, 195 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: she leaves her Mac in her apartment to like Charlotte 196 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: goes to her apartment and she's like her computer was 197 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: just sitting there, Like it's like such a big deal. 198 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: And it's actually funny that you say this, because when 199 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: I was thinking through this episode, I didn't think about this. 200 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: But now I'm like, oh my god, how many different 201 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: times have Max been, Like I'm thinking of legally blonde 202 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: when Elwood's goes to get her like orange Mac and 203 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: all of her like stuffy law students are on their 204 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: black laptops and she's on the orange Mac. I guess 205 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: I had never really thought about how many times Max 206 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:43,079 Speaker 1: have been sort of part of popular culture. Lends it 207 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: kind of goes into like being a designer piece. Almost. Yeah, 208 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,439 Speaker 1: I think I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure 209 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: you don't have to get permission to show Mac, Like 210 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: normally you have to get the companies and pay, but 211 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: they wanted people to think like, oh, this is a 212 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: cool style of she ubiquitous technology. I think the only 213 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: time you have to check is if it's something like real, 214 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: real bad, real bad. Yeah, you're like beating Amanda death. 215 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: But it's the only sid But I mean, like I remember, 216 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: as I'm looking at some of these things, I remember 217 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: seeing the little bomb icon as a part of the 218 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: show as well. And again, like I said, that to me, 219 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: is like a big warning sign. I mean, yeah, I 220 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: don't know what the bomb means, but the bomb means 221 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: something bad. Yeah, the bomb, you see the bomb designed 222 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: by Susan Care. Hopefully you never have to see it, 223 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: but if you, if you put in a command that 224 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: doesn't work and it's like oh no, good bad, you know. 225 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,839 Speaker 1: And also I mean even the even the different icons 226 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: that you're describing the sad Mac, the bomb. One of 227 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: the things that that Susan Care really um architected was 228 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: this idea of the interface being super user friendly. So 229 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: when you do something that is bad, it is very 230 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: obvious that it is bad. It is a bomb, it 231 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: is a sad face, like it could not be more 232 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 1: clear that you have done something incorrect. Or when something 233 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:06,319 Speaker 1: is good, you know, when you would boot up a Mac, 234 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: you would see a smiley face. All of that was 235 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: intentionally designed by care to make people who you know, 236 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: might have been using a computer for the first time, 237 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 1: who might have been a little bit skinnish about using 238 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: a computer. Helped them sort of shepherd them through the 239 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: experience in ways that are like super easy to understand, 240 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: which I really appreciate as someone who, even as someone 241 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:26,959 Speaker 1: who enjoys tech, has to be a little bit like 242 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: tech challenged, shall we say, right as I am, it 243 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: definitely tells me what I'm doing something wrong. Definitely, I'm like, oh, 244 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: I'm just waiting, great and look at that happy face exactly, yes, 245 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: And those are things you take for granted, right, Like 246 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 1: somebody had to think through that process and design those things, 247 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: especially when computers were so new and people were like, 248 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: what is this huge, bohemous thing that's expensive? I don't 249 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: want to wreck it by pressing the wrong button exactly, 250 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: And I mean, what's funny is it? Like some people 251 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: who are a bit young might be thinking, oh, what's 252 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: the big deal, but truly, like keep in mind that 253 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 1: back then in the early days of personal computers, like 254 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: most people did not have a personal computer in their 255 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: home at that point, and so computers were these big, 256 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:16,959 Speaker 1: clunky boxing nightmares that were really inclined toward mathematicians or engineers, 257 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 1: not just like your regular user. And so somebody had 258 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,359 Speaker 1: to take the time to design ways of like illustrating 259 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 1: what you were doing in ways that would be simple 260 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: and user friendly and not scary, not intimidating, because if 261 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 1: you know, if the whole idea is that you want 262 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: people to feel the freedom of having a personal computer 263 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: like in their house, it has to feel like something 264 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: they can really matter for themselves. And so Susan Kare's 265 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: design I think was a big part of why personal 266 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: computing later took on took off. Her hustory is pretty interesting. 267 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: Why don't you tell us how she even Scott started 268 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: into this industry. So this is my favorite thing. So 269 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: her background was in art, right, So she was a sculptor, 270 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: she worked in visual arts, and so she is not 271 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: someone who has hard technical skill. She described herself as 272 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: completely non technical. And the reason that she first got 273 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 1: involved in graphic design in the first places because her 274 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: mom taught her these these skills that we guess commonly 275 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: associate with femininity, so like needle point and embroidery, which 276 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: luckily those two skills work in small grids. So if 277 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: you've ever done needle point, you know you're moving a 278 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: thread through like a tiny box. And so when she 279 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: was designing things on a computer for Apple, it also 280 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: was a small box. And so if it wasn't for 281 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: her mom teaching her these highly kind of like domestic tasks, 282 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: we might not like personal computing might be might have 283 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: gone a completely different direction. And so I just love 284 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: that because it's such a good reminder that you don't 285 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: have to be a coder. You don't have to be 286 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: a hacker to make an impression in tech or to 287 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: have ownership over it. And so I always like to 288 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: remember that that if it wasn't for her mom teaching 289 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: her how to sew and do needle point, truly, I 290 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: might not be recording this podcast on my maclepro right now. 291 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: Things might look different. When you're thinking about people you 292 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: do associate with, particularly mac but like technology and computers 293 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: in general is often men, and you do often have 294 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: this assumption that, oh, there must be like really technically 295 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: minded and gotten a lot of education in those fields, 296 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: and like the names we remember are them. But this 297 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: is a huge part. What Susan care did is a 298 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: huge part of how the technology we use in particularly 299 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: with Max, but in other things. Um, and it is 300 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: what you like, a non traditional route and this sort 301 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: of feminized skill set and this kind of traditionally masculized 302 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: or seen as a very masculine field. And I just 303 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: love it. I love it so much. Yeah, it makes me. 304 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: It's it's a good reminder for all of us. You know. 305 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: I did an interview on my own podcast with this 306 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: really amazing historian and technologist Claire Evans, and she has 307 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: this book all about like the history of women in computing, 308 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: and I guess the thesis would be, you know that 309 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: we are often told that technology is a boys club 310 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: and that women and other marginalized people are trying to 311 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: like break break their way in, but actually women have 312 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: been at the start of computing since the beginning, and 313 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: so is like rightfully our domain. We are not trying 314 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: to break in anywhere, like it is our landscape. And 315 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: that some of the reasons why women kind of get 316 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: pushed out of tech, both you know, in terms of 317 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: like careers, but also just in terms of like who 318 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: gets remembered, who doesn't, who goes over looks. First of all, 319 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: just to be clear, a lot of it is just 320 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: good old fashioned sexism, like nothing, nothing special about that. 321 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: But then another aspect of it is exactly what you 322 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: were saying, is that a lot of times the contributions 323 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: that women have made to computers and technology are things 324 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: that are a little bit harder to preserve. And so 325 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: you know, if you if you make an actual computer 326 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: that can go and a museum, that's that's a solid 327 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:11,239 Speaker 1: tangible thing. If you design a concept or you know, 328 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,360 Speaker 1: do something cool on a message board or develop an 329 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: icon or you know something graphic that is that is 330 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: less tangible, those things are harder to preserve and sort 331 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: of more ephemeral. And so a lot of that work 332 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 1: throughout the years has been associated with women and and feminization, 333 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: this idea that like women are a lot of the 334 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,479 Speaker 1: times the ones who are building the things that are 335 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: a little more difficult to hold onto, and thus these 336 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 1: contributions can really go overlooked and less we make intentional 337 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:43,120 Speaker 1: efforts to preserve them, to highlight them, to amplify them. 338 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:47,159 Speaker 1: All of that. So completely agree, completely agree. Yes, I 339 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: mean here we are talking about it, and because I'll 340 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 1: take every opportunity to bring it up, I do think 341 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 1: too if you look at something like fan fiction. The 342 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: website AO three was one of the biggest coding projects 343 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: of its time, and it was women did it. But 344 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: it doesn't get a lot of respect because if women 345 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: in marginalized people who did it, and it seem as 346 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 1: this kind of weird corner of women fandom and not 347 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 1: therefore not worth the respect as something else more masculine. Right, 348 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: technology is nothing without people using it for something, right, 349 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: without users and so and those people who were who 350 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 1: are building that there were architects of something important and 351 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 1: and like that, we would not even see that as 352 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,959 Speaker 1: worthy of preservation or like mentioning is a real crime. 353 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 1: And I think we really do have to go back 354 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: and look at history and say, well, where are the 355 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 1: times where because this was associated with women or marginalized 356 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: people just doing something geeky on the internet, you know 357 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,719 Speaker 1: how women are, whether it's fan fiction or you know, 358 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: recipe blogs or anything like that. Why do those things 359 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: not deserve to be remembered in the same way that 360 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 1: some of the other more obvious contributions to computing and 361 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: technology in our digital landscape. Like, I completely agree that 362 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 1: we need to have a whole scale sort of of 363 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: rethinking of what what is worthy of preservation because I'm 364 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: not down to just live in a world where the 365 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 1: stuff that we make that marginalized people, that women make, 366 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: it's just not worthy of preservation. No way. Yeah, absolutely not. 367 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: Thank you for letting me bring up fan fiction all 368 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: the time. I aren't gonna help myself. But I also 369 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: think it's a good like correlation to Susan Care's story, 370 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: where there is this sort of like creative, non technical 371 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 1: thing that she was involved with, and she was able 372 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: to translate that into technology because there was this need 373 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,479 Speaker 1: and I think also like again having to kind of 374 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: predict what people's concerns would be and like predict what 375 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: would soothe those concerns and be clear, like coming perhaps 376 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,120 Speaker 1: coming from a different background actually helped her with that. 377 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,439 Speaker 1: I think so I love that point. I think so so. 378 00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: She said that when she first got the call to 379 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: design things for Apple, she was just like, I don't 380 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: know what any of this is. I love this little detail. 381 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: She was in the middle of working on a life 382 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: size sculpture of a hog when she got which if 383 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,199 Speaker 1: that doesn't, if that doesn't tell you all you know 384 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: about hair, I feel like that really, Oh I wanted 385 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: to yes, that's a good question. I want to know. 386 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 1: I want to see this picture of what she was 387 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: working on. Did she get to finish it? I needed please? 388 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: Elbow deep in hog right, she gets this call from 389 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: Andy Hurtzfield, she had gone to high school with and 390 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: he was a member of the original Apple McIntosh development 391 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 1: team during the eighties, and he asked her to hand 392 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: draw some icons and bonds to help inspire what was 393 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: going to be this like Mac inter days, this was 394 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,679 Speaker 1: a completely new concept to her. She's like, I had 395 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: no idea what I was doing. But luckily Andy had 396 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: an idea because he knew that she worked with design 397 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: and graphics. He told her to go out and by 398 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,719 Speaker 1: the smallest, tiniest graph paper that she could find, and 399 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: then use it to block out thirty two squares and 400 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: filled them with color to kind of come up with 401 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: the designs because what she would be designing would be 402 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: a matrix that was essentially a grid. So again back 403 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: to that sort of needle point embroidery um upbringing that 404 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: she had which really helped her work in this grid function. 405 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: Like truly probably couldnot have provided a better basis or 406 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: education for the work that she would go on to 407 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,679 Speaker 1: be doing that. She had no idea, you know, that 408 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: she would be so foundational in and luckily these skills 409 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: really came to rescue. She says. Bit map graphics are 410 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: like mosaics and needle point and other pseudo digital art forms, 411 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: all of which I had practiced before going to Apple. 412 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: This is what she told somebody to an interview in 413 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 1: two thousand. So again like you never know what skill 414 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: is going to apply later in your life. Like I'm 415 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: sure when her mom was teaching her needle point, she 416 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: probably was like, this is really fun and awesome. She 417 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: probably was not thinking and I will go on to 418 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 1: revolution guys personal computing because you have taught me how 419 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 1: to do needle point. Mom. Yeah, so I run a 420 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: Dungeons and Dragons campaign and I use Python coding to 421 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: h run it. So basically Python is a bunch of 422 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: if then statements. But I think you can you can 423 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: take like a really creative, non technical thing and you 424 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: can construct it in a way where you can like 425 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: make it work in that sense, because if you think 426 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 1: about like conversation if X then y, like you can 427 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: I don't know, there's something I find really interesting that 428 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: you can take those things and you can experiment with 429 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: them in that way. You could take needle point and 430 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: think about it in this way of like coding, like 431 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: I I love that stuff. Are there other things that 432 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,439 Speaker 1: you have learned that you feel might help you when 433 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: you're doing when you're coding and Python, like other other 434 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: skills that you're like, oh, I wouldn't have thought that 435 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: this would be, um, some thing that would help me 436 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: think about Python, but actually has been helpful. So something 437 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: that helps me like use Python more or just in 438 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: general in in the work that you do when you're 439 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,679 Speaker 1: building out these things. The reason I started doing that 440 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: is because essentially it's almost exactly like this. You have 441 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: to when you're running a game. You have to predict 442 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,360 Speaker 1: what people are going to do, and that could be anything, right, 443 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: Like that could be literally anything, and so you it's 444 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: like project management where you have to analyze a person 445 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: and then try to make that work in a game system, 446 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: right like in a kind of technical rule based games. 447 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 1: So you've got this like really illogical, chaotic person. Now 448 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 1: I've got to make that work in a way where 449 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,479 Speaker 1: I can say, like if X, then Y so the 450 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: game doesn't break. So I would say, like reading people 451 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: and project management because again a lot of interaction and 452 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 1: in life it's almost cold to think of it this way, 453 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: but you can see in a like technical sense of 454 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: like person why needs this? Therefore these actions happen, like 455 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:16,719 Speaker 1: you can map out to a certain extent people and 456 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: their behavior. That's so fascinating. It's a whole theorem. You 457 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: have to do all these little like hypothesis of this 458 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 1: may happen. So you have two problem solve ahead of time, 459 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: which I know nothing about dungeons and dragons. Just what 460 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: she tells me. It's wild. I mean it completely, it's 461 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,360 Speaker 1: and I think if you take that to its logical 462 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 1: next step like in tech workplaces and stuff. This is 463 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: why I always say, if you're someone who's listening and 464 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: you're like, I want to be more involved than tech. 465 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: I want to work in a tech space. You do 466 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: not have to have tech card skills to be someone 467 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: who makes your living or takes off a big footprint 468 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: in tech. People need to have people reading skills, problem 469 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: solving skills, critical thinking skills. Those are not you know, 470 00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: necessarily what we think of as like tech hard skills, 471 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: but these are all things that go into you know, 472 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: working like being able to think in this way, and 473 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: so I just love this example because I think it 474 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: really does illustrate how all of these different skills that 475 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: aren't necessarily the the hard skill or knowing Python or 476 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: knowing you know, knowing the code, they will help you 477 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: when you're when you're doing these kinds of things. It's 478 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 1: like a whole way of thinking. I love that example. 479 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: I mean, there's definitely a whole correlation between art, music, 480 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: and math, and we know that that's been proven to 481 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,880 Speaker 1: be linkage, and which is why would people talk about 482 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: losing arts and losing music is really detrimental for a 483 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,479 Speaker 1: lot of kids learnings and just overall development. And this 484 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: is one of those more things because not only what 485 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: she's doing art, but she's an amazing at which I 486 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: saw some of the pieces that she's selling now I'm like, wow, 487 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: it's gorgeous. But that that it translated into yeah, these 488 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: little squares and dots in which also equals numbers and such. 489 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 1: This is me knowing all this stuff obviously, but the 490 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: fact that it's a greater picture of how it's all 491 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: correlated and it is linked, oh absolutely, And I mean 492 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: that's why I obviously am such a big advocate for 493 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: young people going into stem and steam fields and get 494 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,360 Speaker 1: and getting that kind of education. But I also think 495 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,400 Speaker 1: you're exactly right that you have to have a well 496 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 1: rounded approach. And so if we lose the art, if 497 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: we lose music and the funding for these things, when 498 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: people are like, oh, well just learn to code and 499 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: get a job like that, it'll be so much harder 500 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: if these students are not well rounded students who do 501 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 1: not have a well rounded art education. And so you know, 502 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: I am an English major, right like, I did not 503 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: have a hard skills background. So many people who made 504 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: it a big splash in tech had arts degrees, humanities degrees, 505 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: you know, studied music, studied literature, and so I definitely 506 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,199 Speaker 1: am a big advocate for a well rounded approach. I 507 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: am not someone who was like, oh, just learn to code, 508 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: that will solve all your problems, because we do need 509 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 1: all kinds of skills to have, you know, young people 510 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 1: who are really equipped to go into these fields. Yeah. Absolutely. 511 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: And one of the things in this story, and Susan 512 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 1: Carey's story is one of my favorite kind of random 513 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 1: I guess it's a good tell of when you grew 514 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: up in terms of technology, when you're talking about your 515 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: legacy because if you examine some of these symbols, like 516 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 1: my ex boyfriend used to argue so hard, like we 517 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,400 Speaker 1: need to redefine what these means, because they don't mean 518 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: the same thing anymore. Right, one is the icon for 519 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 1: saving if you could talk about that, Oh, it's such 520 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 1: a good one. So Susan Care came up with that 521 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: concept of the icon being an association or an illustration 522 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: of the thing that you were doing. So like the 523 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: paint bucket being used to philo surface with color, or 524 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,679 Speaker 1: like this isn't as being used to be the cut function. 525 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: So when you think about the save function, right, So 526 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: if you are a contemporary of me, and I think 527 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: Annie and Samantha, I think you got you all as well. 528 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: When you were saving something, you had to save it 529 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: on a floppy disk. You to put a floppy disk 530 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: that square with the metal thing on it into your 531 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: computer and only that you had to may annually hit 532 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: save every I don't know, twenty minutes, otherwise it wouldn't save. 533 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: Now here you're probably working on Google Docs or some 534 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: other kind of interface. It saves automatically. You don't have 535 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: to put any kind of external thing into your computer 536 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: for to save. This the concept is so different, yet 537 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: the little disc it's still the image for save, and 538 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: so I almost wonder, like, I don't know that young 539 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: people know what that. I like, they're probably not as 540 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,239 Speaker 1: innately familiar with like the floppy disc as they are, 541 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,120 Speaker 1: Yet that is still the icon for save, even though 542 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 1: you don't even really have to say about the used 543 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: to right. It's funny how it's endured. Oh my god, 544 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: you just reminded me. We did a time capsule I 545 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: think in my eighth grade, sixth grade year, and I 546 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: think I put in a thing of floppy disk, like blank. God. 547 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: I have a lot of floppy disk memories. I remember, 548 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: Oh my god, if he's listening to this, he's gonna 549 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: kill me. My older brother he had to do a 550 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: UM class project and at the time we were fighting 551 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: and I never he had it on a floppy desk 552 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: that he left on the computer, and I swapped it 553 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: out with a blank one, so like I put his 554 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: put his in my backpack and put a blank one 555 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: on on the computer. So when he got to school 556 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: he was like, wait, where's my project? That's me. That 557 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: was real, Betty. It was very fatty it was very fatty. 558 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: He's listening to this. I apologize, but you know you're 559 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: deserved it, but you like, yeah, but yeah, no, I 560 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: just remember that because I knew that it would be 561 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: outdated by that point. You were right, you were you 562 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: were like prophetic here right, I'm trying. It costs a 563 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: lot of money, so I can't believe I did that. 564 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: Oh they used to be hella expensive. That was like 565 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: thirty dollars. Yeah, I'm kind of like, why maybe I 566 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: put one. I just remember putting something to do with 567 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: the floppy does like, I'm gonna put this in here, guys, 568 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: It's gonna make it dumb. I love it. It's like 569 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: one of those things, you know how. I think some 570 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: comedian has this this line and is stand up where 571 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: when you're driving and you want someone to roll down 572 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,719 Speaker 1: their window. Even though most cars no longer have the crank, 573 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: that's still emotion that you do to tell someone, even 574 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: though you're like, well the cars haven't really had this 575 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: for a while, why am I doing this? That's still 576 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: the enduring motion that you do, but it keeps it. Yeah, 577 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: that's the things like she created this in the eighties 578 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: and it's still iconic. And it's still used today. And 579 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: even though I may not have known what a MAC was, 580 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: it was definitely universally used well. And that's funny to 581 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: think about to you, because there's some technologies like the 582 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: floppy disk that did just go by the wayside. And 583 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: that's one of my favorite things. Back to the future too, 584 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: when they thought the fax machine was going to be 585 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: the thing. Um but like the you have a story 586 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: in here about like the copy machine, right, So she 587 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: was initially going to have the copy function be a 588 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: little illustration of a copy machine that you would drag 589 00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: and drop your file that you wanted to be duplic 590 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: aided onto the copier. But copy machines are like kind 591 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: of complicated and like difficult to render at that size, 592 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: and so that didn't work. And then she got this 593 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 1: idea to try an illustration of a cat in a mirror, 594 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: which I feel like that really tells me a lot 595 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: about how she was thinking about these illustrations, Like that's 596 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: a really like using a cat looking into a mirror 597 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: as a way to illustrate the copy functionality. I don't know, 598 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: I just want that to be a very interesting manifestation 599 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: of what the copy function does. You know what I mean, 600 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 1: because it started with the sea, but I approved that. 601 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: I want that now. I know. I wish that was 602 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: the case. That's the direction we've gone. And I can 603 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: just imagine, I mean, that would be iconic if that 604 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: is what it was like today. That'd beyond shirts. The cat, 605 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: the cat just staring into the mirror. Yeah, the copy cat. 606 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: I think I don't get it. Yeah, yeah, I love it. 607 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: I'm so good. That is a creative mind, like perhaps 608 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: not the most intuitive like that, Like I think that 609 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: what she ended up going with was like much better, 610 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: but it's like I can sort of see her her logic. 611 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: I guess in what she was going for with the 612 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: with the copycat in the mirror. It's so good. I'm 613 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: good with it. I would have approved it immediately. So 614 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 1: at the top, he said that cares still alive today. 615 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: What's she what's she up to? So that's my favorite 616 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: thing about this story is that I feel so often 617 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: when we're talking about somebody who had a great impact, 618 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: we're talking about them after they have, you know, aged 619 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: out of whatever they're doing, where they've passed away. Not 620 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: care Carr is still very much alive and very much 621 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: involved in tech. So today she works at Pinterest, where 622 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: you are probably familiar if you use Pinterest with some 623 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,480 Speaker 1: of her current designs. She designed the image on Pinterest 624 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: that is modeled after the pushpin that symbolizes pinning an item. 625 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: So again that kind of idea of having the icon 626 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: be kind of a visualization of what the user is 627 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 1: supposed to be doing and the spinning button that appears 628 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: on Pinterest when you refreshed. So very much still a 629 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: person involved in imagining what tech looks like today, the 630 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: tech that we use all the time. If you use Pinterest, 631 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: she's in your Her designs are in your pocket, you 632 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: know which I just I just love. You can also 633 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: find her notebooks today. They're part of the permanent collections 634 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: at the New York and San Francisco Modern Art Museum, 635 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: which the one in New York is my favorite art 636 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: museum on the planet. It's so cool. Cannot wait to 637 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: get back there when COVID is over. And one was 638 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: included in the recent London Design Museum exhibit called California 639 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: Designing Freedom. So yeah, she still is this, you know, 640 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: representing this past and present and perhaps future of does 641 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: I and when it comes to tech, you know, still 642 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: out there, still shaping how we conceptualize the tech that 643 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: we use every day. I love that so much, and 644 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: I just realized that. I guess if you look at 645 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: movies or TV show, that's another application where it's not 646 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 1: necessarily a real world application. But if you were a 647 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: designer and you're designing, like something sci fi, what will 648 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 1: this look like in the future, what does this like 649 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: technology or button or whatever represent, and then being able 650 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: to communicate that two audiences. So yeah, there's a lot 651 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:34,759 Speaker 1: of applications here. Definitely. Did you say, Samantha she has 652 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: art you can still get Oh, yes, she uh had 653 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,280 Speaker 1: a collection where some of the and I don't know, Samantha, 654 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: I don't know if this is what you're referring to, 655 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: but if you go to tear prints dot com, you 656 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: can find her limited edition prints and they include like 657 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: the like little logos and things that she designed. You 658 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,839 Speaker 1: can get like the sad mac on a poster or 659 00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 1: the time bomb on a T shirt. Right, Like some 660 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 1: of herself is really nice, Like I really wouldn't mind 661 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: one of these blankets that had all these different icons 662 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: on it that she designed. And what's funny is that 663 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 1: when you go to caraprince dot com. They talk about 664 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,799 Speaker 1: how she was one of the original originators of what 665 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 1: we think of today is you know, emojis, and so 666 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 1: I hadn't even really thought about that that her design 667 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: says why And I'm emoji obsessed. If you ever text 668 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: me get ready to get a million emojis? But yeah, 669 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 1: just how how fundamental that is in terms of how 670 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: we think of, you know, representing things online. Yes, and 671 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 1: that's another great example of what we were talking about earlier, 672 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 1: where emojis filled a gap that was missing, right, and 673 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: we had to like kind of envision what are these emotions? 674 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 1: What is this trying to convey? And like that is 675 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,799 Speaker 1: another example of something that's kind of artistic but being 676 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: in this very kind of technical world. Right. Also, Annie, 677 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 1: I don't know this is what I read earlier, And 678 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 1: how something that is related to your superpower, one of 679 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: your useless superpowers, which is including fonts or face you 680 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:15,720 Speaker 1: can't recognize. I wasn't when I was calling you out, um, 681 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 1: which I'm like, I don't know you could be lying 682 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 1: to me and just randomly naming a font and I'm 683 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 1: just believing you. But yeah, because like Chicago was one 684 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:24,760 Speaker 1: of them. I know that was one of her first 685 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,359 Speaker 1: typeace is what it called. And then the emojis, which 686 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,319 Speaker 1: was cairo, so that how do you say that c A? 687 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 1: I r oh, but that's the blanket, right, So she 688 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 1: went even further into the world of computer stuff. I'm 689 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 1: so of fish oil. But the fact that she actually 690 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: created typeface I actually created like fonts is an interesting 691 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: thing because I've always wondered who does this? And also, Annie, 692 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,280 Speaker 1: why do you know these? Could you recognize what Chicago 693 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 1: looks like? Chicago twelve for the For the listeners who 694 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 1: don't know this, I have a very useless superpower. It's 695 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,720 Speaker 1: not as good anymore because I used to edit video 696 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: all the time, and I actually would because a font 697 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 1: does convey an emotion, al right, it does help shape whatever. 698 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:16,839 Speaker 1: Everybody loves comic sands, right, that's what everybody loves. And 699 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: so I can recognize the font like it is one 700 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 1: of my most annoying. You get a little alcohol on 701 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 1: me and I'll be like, there's Nancy's chalkboard, Like I 702 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 1: apologize that anyone I've ever done that too. Do you 703 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 1: have a favorite font? That's a good question because I 704 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:38,240 Speaker 1: used to really love I loved the ones that looked 705 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: like people's handwriting. So I did really like marker felt 706 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 1: one with a very little bit of drop shadow very little, 707 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: or like Nancy's. I like Nancy's chok work, but I 708 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,240 Speaker 1: don't know if I would say those are my favorite, 709 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 1: but they were once I'd turned to a lot because 710 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,799 Speaker 1: they I wanted those videos to feel very approachable, which 711 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: is actually the stuff I've never told you videos. So 712 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,359 Speaker 1: they're on YouTube and you can go look at all 713 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:06,640 Speaker 1: my chalk and marker based fonts. I need to do 714 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 1: this right away. I also love a good fund, you know, 715 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:12,879 Speaker 1: like I'm not even someone who is technical in this way, 716 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 1: but like good design is really important, like bad design. 717 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 1: I can't tell you how many times I've been on 718 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,400 Speaker 1: like a restaurant website page where I'm like, this is 719 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: so infuriating. That is terrible, and this user experience is terrible. 720 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:26,760 Speaker 1: I don't even want to go to this restaurant anymore. 721 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 1: Like good like good design can really open some doors 722 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 1: and bad design can really close them. I'll just put 723 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:38,799 Speaker 1: it that way. You are completely correct, But no, I 724 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 1: did like that. I just was like, oh, look she 725 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:42,839 Speaker 1: did this and this and then that blanket. I was like, oh, 726 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: I love this blanket just has all those essentially emojis 727 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: that's all over her blankets that she designed. I was like, 728 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:50,799 Speaker 1: that is so cool, and then I thought about the 729 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,799 Speaker 1: fact that it and he loves talking about how she 730 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: has a super power. So you're welcome for telling everyone 731 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:02,319 Speaker 1: your super power. It's a good power. It's probably my 732 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 1: most useless one, but also the safest one. I'm glass direction. Wait, okay, 733 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,399 Speaker 1: thing I killed the sun killed that conversation real good 734 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:23,920 Speaker 1: a U Well when it comes to to Care, uh 735 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,880 Speaker 1: and these icons she's going to have, like her legacy 736 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,799 Speaker 1: is a lasting legacy. It is a lasting legacy. And 737 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,400 Speaker 1: I guess yeah, As I said, I think it's important 738 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: to highlight. You know, what she did was important. You know, 739 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 1: I couldn't tell you whether or not personal computing would 740 00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,279 Speaker 1: be the same if not for Care, But I know 741 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 1: that she had an impact, and I think it's important 742 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 1: to recognize. And I also just think it's important to 743 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,799 Speaker 1: again underscore that she did all of this as a 744 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:49,840 Speaker 1: non technical person. She told the smith Sony in a 745 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: better time at Apple, I loved working on that project. 746 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,920 Speaker 1: I always felt so lucky for the opportunity to be 747 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,880 Speaker 1: a non technical person and a software group. I was 748 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 1: all by being able to collaborate with such creative, capable 749 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,399 Speaker 1: and dedicative engineers. And I yeah, I think it's really 750 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,240 Speaker 1: awesome that she was holding it down on this group 751 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 1: of engineers as a non technical woman doing her thing 752 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: and really building out a lasting, endorming legacy in a 753 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 1: field where things don't often last and don't often endure 754 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:20,840 Speaker 1: in this way. So I think it's really important to 755 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,799 Speaker 1: recognize her work. I do too, And I think, you know, 756 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 1: even looking back at the time when she was doing 757 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 1: this and being a woman in this non technical space 758 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,320 Speaker 1: and I don't know, creating these things that have lasted, 759 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 1: she's very very inspiring and I'm glad. I'm glad that 760 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: you brought this story to our attention. Bridget Thank you 761 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 1: for giving me the space to nerd out on this. Honestly, 762 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: it truly is because I saw that badass picture of 763 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,799 Speaker 1: her on Old School Cool and Reddit. So whoever put 764 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,040 Speaker 1: that on Reddit, thank you listeners. Please if you have 765 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: not seen that picture, look it up. She is amazing. Yes, yes, 766 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:05,000 Speaker 1: it's so cool. Just I had goals, that would be 767 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:12,279 Speaker 1: one of them. Yeah, yes, you can achieve this Samantha. Now, 768 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 1: I don't think so. I would fall out, like there's 769 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:16,879 Speaker 1: so many levels are cool that I couldn't hit, and 770 00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,399 Speaker 1: one of them would be actually sitting like the Yeah, 771 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 1: I'm worried for her back. Help she's really lean back. Well, 772 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: thanks as always for being here, Bridget. Where can the 773 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,919 Speaker 1: listeners find you? Well, if you want more nording out 774 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,319 Speaker 1: on all things tech and the Internet and things of 775 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,719 Speaker 1: that nature, you can definitely check out my podcast on 776 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio called there Are No Girls on the Internet. 777 00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,319 Speaker 1: We would love to have you there, and you can 778 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,319 Speaker 1: follow me on social media. I'm at Bridget Marie on 779 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 1: Twitter and at Bridget Marie in d C on Instagram. Yes, 780 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,759 Speaker 1: so go check out that podcast and followed Bridget. If 781 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,719 Speaker 1: you don't already listeners, and we can't wait to have 782 00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 1: you again, Bridget, Oh, I can't wait. I cannot wait. 783 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,880 Speaker 1: Took sics in the city, I bet, and just like 784 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,360 Speaker 1: that and just like that, And you don't get that 785 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,120 Speaker 1: job because you don't want to. I don't want to 786 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,560 Speaker 1: be left out of the conversation. Help, but wonder, I 787 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:17,920 Speaker 1: couldn't help, but wonder Alright, alright, down to watch it. 788 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 1: I'm just a little nervous, but I'm down to watch it. 789 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:25,960 Speaker 1: I guess yes, it will be. It will be. And 790 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,120 Speaker 1: if you'd like to contact us listeners, you can our 791 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,520 Speaker 1: emails stuff Youdio, mom Stuff at I Hurt mea dot com. 792 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,279 Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at stuff I Never 793 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,520 Speaker 1: Told You or on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks 794 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 1: as always to our super producer Christina. Thank you Christina, 795 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:39,640 Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening stuff one Never Told 796 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 1: You insrotection of I Heart Radio for more podcast from 797 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:43,880 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or 798 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:45,239 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite show