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Speaker 1: Welcome to it could happen here a podcast that is

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Speaker 1: on the cycle of being sort of okayly introduced. When

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Speaker 1: this episode goes out, it will be Indigenous People's Day

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Speaker 1: and so to to talk about that more where we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk to Dalia Killsback, who is a member of

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Speaker 1: the Northern Cheyenne, has a Northern Cheyenne tribal citizenship and

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Speaker 1: has sort of studied and worked in federal India tribal policy. Dahlia, Hello,

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Speaker 1: how how are you doing? I'm doing well. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for inviting me here today. Of course Garrison is also here.

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Speaker 1: Garrison Hello, Hello. I'm I'm currently also doing writing about

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Speaker 1: indigenous stuff, but within the context of Canada, which people

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Speaker 1: should will probably here later this week. UM so yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess first thing I wanted to talk about is

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Speaker 1: a little bit is about what Indigenous People's Day is

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Speaker 1: and why it is that and not the other thing.

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Speaker 1: Um yeah. So Indigenous People's Day, UM, as many people know,

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Speaker 1: is replacing I'm gonna say it, Chris chrispher Columbus Day. Um.

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Speaker 1: That is still like a federal holiday, but multiple cities

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Speaker 1: and states have opted to use Indigenous People's Day instead. Um.

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Speaker 1: And The reasoning for that is acknowledging the atrocities that

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Speaker 1: were committed by Christopher Columbus, who, first of all did

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Speaker 1: not discover America UM, but UM continue to UM not

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Speaker 1: only use slavery, but UM commit different forms of genocide, rape, etcetera,

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Speaker 1: all of these terrible atrocities. And so rather than celebrating

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Speaker 1: UM somebody like that UM, Indigenous People's Day UM has

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Speaker 1: been implemented in order to recognize the people who are

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Speaker 1: actually here first UM and in Diigenous people's across the America's,

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Speaker 1: their histories, cultures, and contributions. Yeah, Columbus, real piece of ship,

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Speaker 1: worst Christopher, Like, yeah, it really cannot be overstated how

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Speaker 1: bad that guy was. Even even you know, even people

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Speaker 1: in that era who had committed their own genocides like

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Speaker 1: Isabelle and Ferdinand, who you know, expelled the Jews from Spain.

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Speaker 1: Where it's like, you know, if once you've reached the

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Speaker 1: sentence expelled the Jews from X, like you you're a

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Speaker 1: You're already in the ship list of the worst people

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Speaker 1: in human history. And even they saw what Columbus was doing,

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Speaker 1: it was like what on earth, bad bad guy, bad name.

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Speaker 1: Things are going to continue to go badly, And yeah,

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Speaker 1: that that wasn't everything that I wanted to talk about,

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Speaker 1: which is federal Indian policy. And you know this, this

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Speaker 1: is an incredibly broad This is an incredibly broad area

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Speaker 1: spanning like three hundred years. So we're not gonna be

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Speaker 1: able to go into like an enormous amount of depth

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Speaker 1: in it. But I think it's important that people have

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Speaker 1: an understanding of, I mean a just what the US

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Speaker 1: did and how everyone else has had the sort of

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Speaker 1: deal with it. And then also the fact that this

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Speaker 1: is something that changes over time and has has looked different,

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Speaker 1: It's looked it's been bad in different ways. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: so when talking about federal Indian policy, I always like

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Speaker 1: to contextualize it within a larger um sort of like

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Speaker 1: euro American like teleology of colonial conquests and then moving

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Speaker 1: on to Setler colonialism and where we are with federal

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Speaker 1: federal Indian policy currently. UM, So how do we connect

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Speaker 1: Christopher Columbus to where we are currently? UM? And this

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Speaker 1: is the history of federal Indian policy and Western legal

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Speaker 1: discourse and how UM European powers throughout history have defined

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Speaker 1: what it means to be an Indian person in relationship

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Speaker 1: to UM indigenous people's rights to their own land and

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Speaker 1: to self governance. UM. So when we're looking at the

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Speaker 1: different periods of federal Indian policy UM, prior to their

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Speaker 1: being the United States government, we have the colonial period UM,

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Speaker 1: which is fourteen ninety two to seventeen seventies six. UM.

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Speaker 1: This is how federal Indian policy illegal scholars divide that UM.

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Speaker 1: And it's really important to kind of give the difference

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Speaker 1: between what is um a colonial state versus a settler

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Speaker 1: colonial state when you're talking about not just the United

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Speaker 1: States government, but also the Canadian government and um, different

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Speaker 1: governments globally. UM. But I want to talk just a

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Speaker 1: little bit about what I mean by the difference between

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Speaker 1: a colonial government and a suttler colonial government, because they're

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Speaker 1: tied together, UM. So by a settler colonial government, I

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Speaker 1: mean what I mean is that it is defined by

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Speaker 1: the d territorialization of indigenous population populations. And so rather

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Speaker 1: than in a colonial government as you had with Christopher

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Speaker 1: Columbus and the Spanish and with the English, etcetera, UM

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Speaker 1: is rather than a state and sovereignty being conceived as

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Speaker 1: all these resources are going back to the metrical All

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Speaker 1: these resources are going back to England or to Spain, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: And colonial occupation is in is um conceptualized within this

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Speaker 1: way in settler colonial governments, UM, the colonists come to

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Speaker 1: these lands and stay and they're what they define as

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Speaker 1: sovereignty is within this land that they define now as

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Speaker 1: their own. So and in order for that process to happen, UM,

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Speaker 1: there needs to be different forms of genocide of the

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Speaker 1: indigenous populations. And so that's what we saw with Christopher

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Speaker 1: Columbus and throughout history, UM was just the depletion of

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Speaker 1: a lot of our indigenous populists. UM. And so when

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Speaker 1: I mean about the United States UM being a settler

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Speaker 1: colonial state, I mean that this is current and ongoing.

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Speaker 1: And so when we talk about federal Indian policy, UM,

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Speaker 1: federal Indian policy is always in this conversation with what

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Speaker 1: started with Christopher Columbus as the doctrine of discovery and UM.

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Speaker 1: So that's how we define the colonial period. And feel

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Speaker 1: free to like stop me and ask me questions. Else

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to try to move quickly because there's

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Speaker 1: a lot I think we probably should briefly talk about

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Speaker 1: what the doctory discovery is, um least before we get

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Speaker 1: to set the martial trilogy and stuff. For sure, what

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Speaker 1: does that actually mean legally? Um? So legally um, it's

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Speaker 1: the discovery of a quote unquote New found Land UM

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Speaker 1: by European colonial forces. And the reason why it's called

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Speaker 1: the doctrine of discovery was that indigenous peoples on these

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Speaker 1: lands were deemed unable to govern themselves and they did

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Speaker 1: not know how to utilize their land up to the

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Speaker 1: definition of what the European powers thought UM land use

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Speaker 1: was that um. Indigenous peoples didn't have the same concept

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Speaker 1: of property um, and same with their relationship with resources

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Speaker 1: and resource extraction. So when um, Christopher club this and

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Speaker 1: all of these other colonizers clunky clunkys doors came to

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Speaker 1: the quote unquote New Land, UM, they saw all of

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Speaker 1: this rich, plentiful resource and thoughts of themselves, Well, obviously

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Speaker 1: these people don't know what they're doing because there's just

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Speaker 1: so much they have not done anything with it. Um.

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Speaker 1: And we're going to take this back to two hours

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Speaker 1: because obviously their inferior beings and don't know what property is.

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Speaker 1: So um. Legally um it the doctrine of Discovery conveyed

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Speaker 1: legal title to an ownership of American soil to European

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Speaker 1: nations UM a title that devolved to the United States

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Speaker 1: and so UM. This definition is expansive UM and expansive

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Speaker 1: discovery implies that Native nations have a right to lands

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Speaker 1: as occupants or possessors, but they are incompetent to manage

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Speaker 1: those lands and need a quote unquote benevolent guardian such

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Speaker 1: as a federal government who holds legal title and UM.

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Speaker 1: So when we're talking about this legal title, it devolves

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Speaker 1: to the United States. Later on, UM in history, after

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Speaker 1: the American Revolution UM, and so rather than being colonial

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Speaker 1: states UM as the United States like thirteen original colonies,

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Speaker 1: given um, the American Revolution and its own constitution and

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Speaker 1: its creation of itself as a nation state, then that

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Speaker 1: turns into a settler colonial government. Yeah. I think we can, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we can get to what happens next then, because yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you have you have this elaborate legal framework that lets

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Speaker 1: you steal people's land and murder them and then control it.

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Speaker 1: And then the outgrowth of that is this sort of

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Speaker 1: weird event where the colonies go into rebellion and suddenly, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's there's not a colony. They're not colonies anymore. They

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Speaker 1: just are the state and so yeah, but what happens

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Speaker 1: next after the sort of formation of the United States.

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Speaker 1: So after the formation of the United States, um, so,

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Speaker 1: we have this period the American Revolution, it's all not

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Speaker 1: really diving into. It is seventeen seventy six to seventeen

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Speaker 1: eighty nine, and it's called the Confederation period. But next

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Speaker 1: we have the Trade and Intercourse Act era, which is

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Speaker 1: from seventeen eighty nine to eighteen thirty five. And so

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Speaker 1: this is defined with the United States Constitution and Congress's

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Speaker 1: exclusive right to regulate trade relations and make lands since

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Speaker 1: the land secessions, and enter into treaties with tribes. So

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Speaker 1: this is a treaty making era with the tribes that

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Speaker 1: only the United States federal government is able to And

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Speaker 1: there's a distinction there because there had been a lot

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Speaker 1: of contestation between states and the federal government as to

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Speaker 1: who is going to now deal with these, um these

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Speaker 1: nations that are with our within our own settler colonial borders.

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Speaker 1: So whose job is that to solve this issue? Um? So,

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Speaker 1: within the United States Constitution, there are three clauses that

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Speaker 1: define the United States legal relationship to American Indians, and

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Speaker 1: so these are the treaty making Clause the commerce clause

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Speaker 1: and the property clause. Um. And so this this movement

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Speaker 1: from just relying on the doctrine of discovery and treaty

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Speaker 1: making processes between different European powers now is between the

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Speaker 1: United States federal government and tribes. And so what this

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Speaker 1: does is now tribes are located within the United States territory,

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Speaker 1: and this places Indians within the boundaries and jurisdiction of

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Speaker 1: the United States, and now they are a matter of

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Speaker 1: domestic interest something. It leads it's to one of the

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Speaker 1: sort of complicated questions that the changes to this whole era,

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Speaker 1: which is about what does sovereignty mean for these tribes

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Speaker 1: and to what extent to the even continue to possess it,

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Speaker 1: and how does that even sort of how does that

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Speaker 1: work if you have when you have this new state

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Speaker 1: that's sort of just has his clean control here, right

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Speaker 1: And also during this period, um, well, well later on

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Speaker 1: when we have um started jumping ahead of myself, when

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Speaker 1: we have the extermination of the treaty making process, and

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Speaker 1: this completely removes seeing tribes as independent sovereign nations. UM.

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Speaker 1: So I think that will kind of get more into

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Speaker 1: that later. But the thing with federal Indian policy, UM,

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Speaker 1: is that it's sort of self prophesizing. So as settlers

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Speaker 1: are moving across America, UM, the United States government also

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Speaker 1: has to create these policies UM in order to legalize

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Speaker 1: these land cessations and movements. And a pattern that we

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Speaker 1: do see here UM throughout history and throughout time is

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Speaker 1: that the United States federal government, as a settler state

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Speaker 1: is um over the rights of over the UM rights

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Speaker 1: to land and rights of indigenous peoples themselves. You have

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Speaker 1: a priority of the settler state in order to acquire land.

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Speaker 1: So that a lot of the reason why UM later

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Speaker 1: these treaties will be broken, etcetera, is because settlers are

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Speaker 1: moving into these lands and the United States is then

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Speaker 1: breaking these treaties in order to UM have more more land,

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Speaker 1: more land secessions. Yeah, the laws are of just following

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Speaker 1: the violence and it just becomes a retroactive justification. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a self justifying sort of sovereignty. So this

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Speaker 1: is the removal period and what a lot of people

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Speaker 1: may have heard of. So it's from to eighteen sixty one,

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Speaker 1: and what we have is the extinguishment of Indian title

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Speaker 1: to eastern lands and the removal of Indian tribes westward

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Speaker 1: so UM. One of the most notable acts is the

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Speaker 1: Removal Act, which was authorized by President Andrew Jackson, which

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Speaker 1: moved Um Indians from the east to the west of

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Speaker 1: the Mississippi River into what was called Indian Territory UM.

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Speaker 1: And what brought about this UM Federal Federal Act UM

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Speaker 1: was a series of three foundational statutes within federal Indian

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Speaker 1: policy UM dictated by Chief Justice John Marshall. So first

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Speaker 1: we have Johnson B. Macintosh Cherokee Nation be Georgia and

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Speaker 1: Worcester be Georgia. And I won't go into too much detail,

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Speaker 1: but what this these essentially UM did and legally defined

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Speaker 1: tribes as being domestic dependent nations. And so it clarified

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Speaker 1: more that again tribal nations are underneath the federal government's overview,

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Speaker 1: not the states. So yeah, it placed tribes above state jurisdiction.

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Speaker 1: And what this is trying to do was UM solve

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Speaker 1: some issues that tribes such as the Cherokee Nation had

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Speaker 1: with different states when it came to land and UM

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Speaker 1: jurisdiction over said land. UM. But that is kind of

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Speaker 1: the basis of a lot of federal Indian policy and

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Speaker 1: still remains truth day. And what is notable uh in

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Speaker 1: each one of these statutes UM, I believe, particularly in

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Speaker 1: Worcester the Georgia, although it seems that it was supporting

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Speaker 1: tribal sovereignty in them and that they were above state jurisdiction,

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Speaker 1: a lot of these UM statute sided racist president and

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Speaker 1: the doctrine of Discovery. So what you see for federal

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Speaker 1: Indian policy is that a lot of the fount well

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Speaker 1: all the foundation for federal Indian policy based on President

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Speaker 1: is the Doctrine of Discovery, which is reliant on the

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Speaker 1: idea that American Indians were savages and needed um federal

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Speaker 1: benevolence and um paternalism in order to regulate their own affairs. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's well, okay, we should probably not

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Speaker 1: just immediately get to allotment, but yeah, because there this is,

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Speaker 1: there's this, there's also Yeah, this is also the period

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Speaker 1: of use. Yeah, the thing you were talking about earlier,

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Speaker 1: the thing you helped me know about, which is okay,

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Speaker 1: it's not true to say this is when this starts,

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Speaker 1: but this is Indian Removal Act, Trail of Tears territory.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, one thing that you know, I think one

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Speaker 1: of one of the sort of running themes of this

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Speaker 1: is that, you know, the the law in this context

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Speaker 1: is just sort of becomes a sort of retroactive excuse

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Speaker 1: to do whatever needs to be done from the perspective

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Speaker 1: quote unquote of the sort of of the settler state

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Speaker 1: to just take all of this land. Yeah. And I

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Speaker 1: think maybe like one of the keystones of this is

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Speaker 1: Andrew Jackson just straight up tellings between court to funk

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Speaker 1: Off so that he can do so he can do

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Speaker 1: with trail of tears. Yeah. Um. So the Removal Act

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Speaker 1: happened after all of these statutes that you already had

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Speaker 1: that supported um, federal Indian sovereignty. And so the Cherokees

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Speaker 1: in Georgia were one of the tribes that were removed. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so you kind of see what you talked about,

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Speaker 1: the the retrograde kind of justifications for said removal despite um,

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Speaker 1: the statutes that are there. So although that like Marshall

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Speaker 1: Um in Worcester f Georgia determined that the State of

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Speaker 1: Georgia did not have jurisdiction over Cherokee territory all this territory,

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Speaker 1: although this territory was in the state's borders. Um. Later on,

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Speaker 1: you see with the Removal Act that although these statutes

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Speaker 1: are still president in federal Indian policy, those were noll

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Speaker 1: in order for UM there to be more UM expansion

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Speaker 1: of settlers within these areas. So when it was decided that, oh, wait,

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Speaker 1: we do need this land and we don't actually want

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Speaker 1: these Indians here, let's put them to the side over

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Speaker 1: past the Mississippi so that they're out of side, out

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Speaker 1: of my right. So we see more of this um

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Speaker 1: justification for settler expansion. And so again we bring back

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Speaker 1: to these themes of like settler colonialism in order to

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Speaker 1: UM kind of gain more of this land. And a

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Speaker 1: lot of these statutes are still cited the doctrine of

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Speaker 1: discovery in them and rather than supporting tribal policy, the

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Speaker 1: relationship between the United States federal government and American Indians

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Speaker 1: um was not based on the rights of Indians, but

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Speaker 1: more that they can't they can't govern themselves, right and

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Speaker 1: so so and that's the whole issue is like people

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Speaker 1: are like they don't know what they're doing, so we're

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Speaker 1: gonna push them and like take their land again. So

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Speaker 1: I I don't know if you want me to go

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Speaker 1: too much into the trail of tears, but um, you're

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Speaker 1: seeing a lot of patterns here, I think, different forms

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Speaker 1: of genocide, different forms of taking land. This was this

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Speaker 1: is all around the same time as the Indian acting

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Speaker 1: Canada as well, which was did a very similar thing,

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Speaker 1: especially starting in the nine it's starting in the twenty

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Speaker 1: century as well with the like expansion of the like

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Speaker 1: assimilation programs. Yeah, and I think I guess the only

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Speaker 1: thing I want to point out about this is that,

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Speaker 1: you know, so one of one of the things that

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Speaker 1: happens trailers here is at the Streme Court like tells

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Speaker 1: Jackson that he can't do this, and j actually just

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Speaker 1: does it anyways. And I think that's a very interesting

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Speaker 1: important moment because you know, this is this is this

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Speaker 1: thing right where the federal government can tell there's Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court to funk off, right, and there's nothing that Streme

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Speaker 1: Court could do about it. And if you look at

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Speaker 1: what they did it to do, the thing they did

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Speaker 1: it to do was genocide. And it's I think it's

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Speaker 1: it's just I think this is a very sort of

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Speaker 1: I don't know, this incredibly grim like you know, encapsulation

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Speaker 1: of like what this state actually is, which is this

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Speaker 1: sort of genocide machine and whatever sort of this is

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Speaker 1: what sovereignty is right. The ability to break your own

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Speaker 1: rules sort to sort of into or toning the system.

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Speaker 1: So you know, you break your own laws and you

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Speaker 1: know as we're gonna get you in a second, like

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Speaker 1: you break your own treaties continuously, and you do this

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Speaker 1: because you know, the genisite machine has to keep moving,

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Speaker 1: right and Um. There's a couple of federal and new

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Speaker 1: policy theorists um Findeler Jr. Who's one of the most

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Speaker 1: famous ones, and David E. Wilkins who talks about how

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Speaker 1: there's no need for checks and balances within the federal

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Speaker 1: Indian policy system. So you have Congress that is able

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Speaker 1: to um pass whatever act they want, and and then

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Speaker 1: you also have the Supreme Court, and then you also

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Speaker 1: have executive action. But it wasn't really delineated that well

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Speaker 1: um within especially when it comes to this period as

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Speaker 1: to who is going to be dealing with the Indians

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Speaker 1: kind of thing. Um. And so this kind of confusion

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Speaker 1: and not really completely defining what it means to be

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Speaker 1: a domestic dependent nation, I think really just goes to

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Speaker 1: show how much of a fragile edifice like settler um

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Speaker 1: colonial policy is for it is within the system. UM.

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Speaker 1: But again moving on it comes back again to land.

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Speaker 1: So the reservation area era in eighteen sixty one to

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Speaker 1: eighteen eighty seven UM has you have a lot of

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Speaker 1: westward expansion of non Indians UM settlers, specifically to California.

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Speaker 1: You also have the creation of Indian reservations and resulting

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Speaker 1: Indian wars UM. Uh. So during this era what you

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Speaker 1: see a lot out of UM are different types of

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Speaker 1: attempts that assimilation UM and a lot of warfare. So

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Speaker 1: you have a lot of the Plains tribes my tribe

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Speaker 1: for instance, UM that are going through all of these

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Speaker 1: battles fighting UM forced removal onto reservations UM. One of

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Speaker 1: the most famous ones was UM the Battle of Greasy

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Speaker 1: Grass or a Little Big Horn UM where General Custer

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Speaker 1: was killed by Sue Cheyennes and Arapahos, and different instances

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Speaker 1: of battles such as those, and also where a lot

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Speaker 1: of tribes UM were forcibly removed to era areas that

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Speaker 1: they weren't originally from. So like how the Sheriffees were

336
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Speaker 1: moved to Oklahoma, there was attempts of my tribe, for instance,

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Speaker 1: more than Cheyenne to be moved down to Oklahoma as well,

338
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Speaker 1: and that's why there's some Southern Cheyennes in Oklahoma and

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Speaker 1: then my tribes and with thin Shians in Montana. Another

340
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Speaker 1: um in. Another thing that is happening during this period

341
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Speaker 1: are boarding schools UM the boarding school era. So the

342
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 1: attempt at assimilation through education UM and assimilation is also

343
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: UM within within the settler colonial kind of structure. It's

344
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Speaker 1: it's defined as a process where indigenous people end up

345
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 1: UM conforming to different constructed notions of UM settler norms UM.

346
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Speaker 1: So if they're not absorbed within the state completely, then

347
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Speaker 1: their attempted attempt to be assimilated UM culturally, UM through education,

348
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Speaker 1: through languages, in terms of economics and how you have

349
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: a bunch of different sort of bureaucratic structures on these

350
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Speaker 1: reservations trying to make tribal governments appear to be UM

351
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Speaker 1: or constructed as as settler colonial governments are UM. So

352
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Speaker 1: maybe it's the three branches UM in ways that aren't

353
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: just compatible with different tribes culturally, and you also have

354
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: the attemptive eradication of different kind of spiritual and cultural

355
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Speaker 1: practices and a lot of Christianity course on different people

356
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Speaker 1: and just kind of terrible things that UM I think

357
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 1: more and more people are becoming aware of due to

358
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Speaker 1: due to current movements. But we'll get into that moment later.

359
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Speaker 1: Do we want to talk about a lot of in

360
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Speaker 1: the same period, Yes, a lotment period and UM course assimilation.

361
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Speaker 1: So this is like eighteen seventy one to nineteen thirty four,

362
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Speaker 1: and so this is the end of the treaty making process.

363
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Speaker 1: So the whole idea of UM trying to force tribes

364
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Speaker 1: onto reservations and signed these treaties were too again take

365
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: land and make sure that the United States has more

366
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 1: land and all the land, etcetera that they possibly have UM.

367
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Speaker 1: So at this end of treaty making UM federal allotment

368
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Speaker 1: of Indian lands also happened in the UM the Jaws

369
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Speaker 1: Act UM. And so what this was was an attempt

370
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Speaker 1: to UM further shrink the reservation lands that tribes are

371
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Speaker 1: already guaranteed within treaties UM. So during this period, I

372
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 1: think that somewhere like nine million acres were UM taken

373
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Speaker 1: from tribal reservations during the allotment process. So that what

374
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 1: the allotment process did was it counted each in every

375
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Speaker 1: individual Indian UM that was eligible. I think there were

376
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: adults um. Yeah, adults that were eligible UM, and each

377
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: one of them were given a certain parcel of land,

378
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: a certain number of acreage UM. And once all of

379
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 1: this land was calculated, what you had was an excess

380
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 1: of land quote unquote excess of land that the tribes

381
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: obviously didn't need because they had still too too many people.

382
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: And so what the excess of land um was utilized

383
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 1: force for pioneers and for settlers UM. If it didn't

384
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 1: go UM to the federal government, it was to um

385
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 1: incentivized settlers to colonized, esscial settle on Indian lands. So

386
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: trying its hardest to not stay true to its treaty

387
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: making practices. I think everything was interesting to me about

388
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: this is that, like because one of the other goals

389
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: of this is to sort of like, oh is the

390
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: civilizing mission. It's like, yeah, we're gonna turn them into

391
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 1: We're turning these people into like like human farmers, like

392
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: true American fintiersman or whatever. And it's just like it

393
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: just doesn't work because economically it doesn't make any sense,

394
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 1: like breaking up all these like lands. It's like it

395
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: doesn't you can't just give someone like a small patch

396
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 1: of like shitty land and have them farm like this

397
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 1: doesn't like this, it doesn't it doesn't like they certainly tried,

398
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: and then yeah, yeah, like that was one of the

399
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 1: main things. One of the main things in Canada was

400
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: about getting them to adopt like like European farming practices,

401
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: which which they already knew how to get their own food, right,

402
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: they were trying to change this whole system of of

403
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: of like of of food growth to to this like

404
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: to this European way of of farming, and it just

405
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: and they were just forcing them to and there's yeah,

406
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: it's it's yes, it gets it gets, it gets super,

407
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: it gets super like dark and horrible. Once you like

408
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: look at like the letters that were being written by

409
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: like the heads of these programs um like you know,

410
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: instructing like these agents were stationed at these like reservations

411
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: that to like force people to be doing doing this

412
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: horrible farming for like all day every day. And I think,

413
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: you know the sign that this was like like this

414
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: is this is so bad that even the US government

415
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: eventually is like wait this this like this is fucked

416
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: up and doesn't work. So I think that's yeah, transitioned

417
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: to sort of like the next phase. I guess yeah,

418
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: a very short phase. UM. Yeah. So the next phase,

419
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: um is the Indian Reorganization Act. And so this only

420
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: lasted six years from nineteen thirty four in nineteen forty. UM.

421
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: So this is when allotment ended. As you said, the

422
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: United States government was like, wait, this isn't working. Um,

423
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: what else can we do? What the Indians dive off?

424
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 1: They're not assimilating, they're not a culturating. We don't know

425
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: what to do with them. Um, so maybe we'll We'll

426
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: have them adopt these constitutions and a lot of them

427
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: were just templates. So regardless of whether or not they

428
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: were um I think compatible with tribal different tribes way

429
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,479
Speaker 1: of life, they were like, you have these constitutions. Now, um,

430
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: now you're you're a tribe, and this is what each

431
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: tribe has to look like in order for us, the

432
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: federal government to recognize you as a legitimate entity. Uh

433
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: and um. And then so you have the establishment of

434
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: these um tribal governments that consist of tribal councils and

435
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: the business committees, etcetera. However, this period is fleeting, very fleeting, um.

436
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: And next, um, you have the termination era. So this

437
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: is the period of time where the federal government essentially

438
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: even more so, wants to just get rid of the

439
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: quote unquote Indian problem, which is the existence of indigenous

440
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: peoples UM that are reminders to the government essentially that UM,

441
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: they are a settler colonial force and they don't know

442
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: what to do with us because they tried to commit genocide,

443
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: they tried to remove us, etcetera, etcetera. It's still not working. UM.

444
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: They decided that our travel governments UM aren't aren't legitimate,

445
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: and they just decide, well, it's too much to try

446
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: to keep up with our treaties and what we promised

447
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: them when it comes to healthcare, education, housing, etcetera, etcetera.

448
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: How about we terminate our federal responsibility, our trust responsibility

449
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: that are delineated in federal in the policy and in

450
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: our treaties UM and give them off to this to

451
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: the states to decide what to do with and says

452
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: during this period it you see UM sort of the

453
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: federal UM dissolution of some tribes such as the monotymy

454
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: Um and other ones UM as well. So this is

455
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: another dark time there. The dark times just keep on coming.

456
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: And what federal policy scholars have UM characterized federal unw

457
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: policy as a pendulum, the swinging swinging from side to

458
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: side between this terminal, this termination of tribes, So the

459
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: federal India government as trying to get rid of tribes,

460
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: especially as you can see in this era, and then

461
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: the pendulum of the other side of self determination. But

462
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: both of these are held within the context of goals

463
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: of assimilation. So, um, this is just another phase of terribleness. Well,

464
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: I think this this phase is also like one thing

465
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: I think that also like is important people understand. Is

466
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: it like like it's not like people aren't fighting this

467
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: like the whole time. I mean even going like even

468
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: going back to the stuff the Seventh Cafrey, like the

469
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: seventh Cavalry lose like bores, they lose bells all the time.

470
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: People are fighting constantly, and this is this period determination.

471
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: Period is also where you see the the rise of

472
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: the American Indian movements. Yeah, a lot of these periods

473
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: can be like dove into more and all of these

474
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: different things. Um, and every instance, in every instance of

475
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: federal Indian policy, you have resistance, which we are not

476
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: covering here right now. Um, but you have instances throughout

477
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: history where indigenous peoples have fought for their rights to land,

478
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: to UM, for their community, to being sovereign nations, etcetera.

479
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: And that's why the federal Indians, the federal government, not

480
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: federal Indian government, the federal government has not been able

481
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: to aradicated us, much to their dismay um UM. And

482
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: so now I'm going to switch into the era that

483
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: we are considered to be in, which I have mentioned

484
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 1: when I talked about the pendulum of federal Indian policy.

485
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: So now we are in the self determination era UM,

486
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 1: which began in nineteen sixty two, UM, and we have

487
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: UM the right. It's characterized with the revitalization of tribal entities.

488
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: So UM going kind of back to when there was

489
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: the Indian Reorganization Acts that we have our tribal councils. UM.

490
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: There's restoration of some tribes under federal recognition who are

491
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: terminated again not all of them. We also have the

492
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: Indian Civil Rights Act. So this this kind of guaranteed

493
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: individual Indians UM some rights UM, not just characterized by

494
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: their tribes. Also the self determination call say, so this

495
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:07,879
Speaker 1: is when UM Nixon condemned determination policy and gave more

496
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: control to Indians rather than the Bureau of Indian Fairs,

497
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: which just a federal bureau and just kind of like

498
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: other policies that UM have given the tribes more rights

499
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: to UM determine for themselves in their own trust, their

500
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: own people, UM to a certain degree underneath the federal

501
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 1: government as a mess of dependent nations. And again I

502
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: I think that we have seen a lot more movement,

503
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 1: but within the context of being within a settler colonial state. UM.

504
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 1: It's always I think a possibility that the federal Indian

505
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: government or the federal government I keep saying Indian, the

506
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: federal government will try UM to take more and more.

507
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: And I think UM for since when it comes to

508
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:08,280
Speaker 1: issues of fishing rights, issues of UM hunting rights with states,

509
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 1: not even just with the federal government. So you have

510
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: a lot of states throughout throughout history but still ongoing

511
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: UM that attempt to encroach on UM tribal treaties UM.

512
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 1: And again, treaties are the basis of federal Indian policy.

513
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: Without these treaties, that lands would have never been succeeded

514
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: to the United States. And so UM there's just this

515
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: sort of like legal legal conundrum I would say, of

516
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 1: where all these all treaties in the history of the

517
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 1: United States with India with Indian tribes have been broken

518
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: in some way, shape or form um, but still um

519
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: American Indians have to live on their reservations instead of

520
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,439
Speaker 1: having their their land back. And so now of days

521
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 1: a lot of movement has been towards um land back.

522
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: What this means? What is this process? And I think

523
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 1: it means a lot of different things for different people

524
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 1: indigenous people because again there's there's four federally recognized tribes

525
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 1: and so it's not one monolith of ideas, the monolith

526
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 1: of the beliefs. But by just by saying land back,

527
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 1: that's like recognition that this is our this was our

528
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: land first, and you're not keeping your side of the

529
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: deal and never have been. Could you maybe go a

530
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: bit more into land back with the topic, because like specifically,

531
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: like the past five years, it has really gain a

532
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 1: lot more like um popularity as like a slogan UM.

533
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: But I think for a lot of a lot of

534
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: people who chanted and here it don't always really know

535
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: exactly what it means. That there's a lot of like

536
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: mixed opinions on what it means UM. Of course, on

537
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: like the more like reactionary side it's like people be like,

538
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 1: what you're going to like kick white people out of

539
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 1: these areas? Like that's kind of That's what a lot

540
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: of like the reactionary takes on land back is. Um.

541
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,760
Speaker 1: And I'm sure most people are listening to this podcast

542
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: that's not what they think, um, But they may not

543
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 1: really know exactly what it means either. Um. They may

544
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 1: think it sounds like a good idea, but they're not

545
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: quite sure what it is. Do you mind kind of

546
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: talking about how land backs like developed as as an

547
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: idea and what like what like you mean by it personally?

548
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: At least? Yeah, I think I can talk about more

549
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: about like what I mean by it personally and what

550
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: I've understood it to mean to other people, because I think, um,

551
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: land back itself, it means like a lot of different things,

552
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 1: and I don't think that there has been a concrete

553
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: kind of idea of what it means. But I think

554
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: a lot of the movement I want to contextualize it

555
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: with and a lot of the sort of act activism

556
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: that we've seen in their recent years. UM. So for instance,

557
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: no Jack all the Dakota Access pipeline in two thousand

558
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 1: and sixteen and kind of I think that's one of

559
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: the more recent events that have really illustrated on a

560
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: wide scale, like globally about UM indigenous movements, UM sovereign movements,

561
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 1: and especially when it comes to environmental justice. But what

562
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 1: you saw there was encroachment on tribal treaty land within

563
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: UM that we when it had to do with the

564
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: Dakota Access pipeline UM. So although it didn't cross some

565
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 1: of the current reservation borders, it was in treaty land,

566
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: you know that kind of thing. The same the same

567
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,320
Speaker 1: thing was stop line three, how it encroached on the

568
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 1: hunting land and the farmland that was not technically in

569
00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: the like residential like like UM like the not in

570
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: like the reservation area where people live, but it's in

571
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: the surrounding area that is for hunting that is specified

572
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: in the treaty. So people trying to use these loopholes

573
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: to get the pipelines through right right. And so I

574
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: think what you see is a lot of solidarity across

575
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: tribes because this is not new, this has never been new,

576
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 1: and a lot of tribes can relate to that. And

577
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: what you've seen and what I've hoped that I've highlighted

578
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: throughout this kind of very brief overview of federal loving

579
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 1: policy is the different ways that Indigenous rights to land

580
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: and sovereignty has been attacked in different forms by settler

581
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: and colonial governments. Um. And I think that the day

582
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: and age that we live in now has allowed for

583
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: um sort of more widespread solidarity, especially over social media. Um.

584
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: And so when we say land back, for me, how

585
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,479
Speaker 1: I interpret it as what people mean when they're saying

586
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: it is recognition of our tribal sovereignty, of our right

587
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: to this land that has not been respected. And then

588
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: I also think that it means, well, if these treaties

589
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: aren't being respected, then how is this treaty still um valid? Right?

590
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 1: How come we aren't getting our land back because they're

591
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 1: not upholding your end of the deal. While some people

592
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 1: also might mean and recognize that this whole United States

593
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: government is a settler state right based on the doctrine

594
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: of discovery, which is based on denying tribes and American

595
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: Indians of their rights to this land. Um. So some

596
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: people might take it to this whole other context of yeah,

597
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: well maybe this is this is all of our land, etcetera, etcetera.

598
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: But in practice, what does this look like, and I

599
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,720
Speaker 1: think in practice a lot of people UM are seeing

600
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:06,240
Speaker 1: it with reparations or people buying land back for tribes

601
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: and giving it back to tribes. And we have seen

602
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 1: some of that or UM also just people interrupting the

603
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: narrative UM in their own mind of their euro American identity,

604
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: so non non UM American Indians and primarily European settlers

605
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: and their history of their own families taking part of

606
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 1: the settler colonial process, and how has that UM what

607
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 1: about their lands? There's everyone who UM descends I guess

608
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: from these these settlers, and I want to be specific

609
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: when I'm talking about Euro American settlers UM UM and

610
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 1: how they currently benefit from these systems. And I think

611
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 1: by saying land back UM, it's we're able to highlight

612
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 1: this movement for tribal sovereignty and recognition on a global scale.

613
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 1: Instead of searching for justice within the quote unquote like

614
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 1: UM searching for justice within the courts of the conqueror,

615
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: how how do we expect UM for the conqueror to

616
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 1: be held accountable for all of these atrocities, attempts at genocide, assimilation,

617
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,800
Speaker 1: et cetera. By taking it more towards a global scale,

618
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: such as nod Apple highlighting these two other people as

619
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:25,879
Speaker 1: these are injustices. Um, this is this is ongoing genocide.

620
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:30,760
Speaker 1: I think that land back has many, like a plethora

621
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: of meanings in the in that sense. Yeah, yeah, I

622
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 1: hope that answers your question. I myself, UM might use

623
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:45,280
Speaker 1: it in in some some different ways. Um, because land

624
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:49,919
Speaker 1: as we conceive it to be property kind of grew,

625
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 1: that concept grew in conversation with euro American Yeah. Absolutely, yeah,

626
00:43:56,080 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: conceptions of property. So I think that um, moving forward,

627
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: when we talk about de colonization as a process and

628
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:09,439
Speaker 1: not like a metaphor, um that thinking of land back

629
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 1: not within that whole idea of your American property as well.

630
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 1: That's that's kind of another thing to consider. Yeah, I

631
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 1: think I think lend back would just be a whole

632
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:25,399
Speaker 1: other thing that will pay someone more qualified than our

633
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: team to talk about on this show. Um, because yeah,

634
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,399
Speaker 1: that's definitely, like you know, like all of the things

635
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: we've we've discussed, they deserve their own deep dives by

636
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 1: people that are uh not me, Robert and Chris. Um.

637
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 1: Let's see, is there any kind of resources, either books

638
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 1: or stuff online that you would recommend for people wanting

639
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: to learn more about this history UM, and then any

640
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 1: kind of ways to I don't know, I I guess

641
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 1: show support in these and these kind of like efforts

642
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 1: that are going on, Yeah, for sure. UM. So in

643
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 1: terms of resources and reading UM, I have read Lorenzo

644
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:15,839
Speaker 1: Verrocchini's UM Settler book on Settler Colonialism. UM. That's really

645
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: helpful when you're trying to understand that framework in terms

646
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 1: of getting to know kind of more of the basics

647
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: of like current UM issues impacting tribes UM. The National

648
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: Congress of American Indians does a lot of work on

649
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,359
Speaker 1: the federal level. UM. If you want to talk more

650
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 1: about UM kind of lived current lived experiences of American Indians,

651
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: there's illuminatives UM and getting more involved in those as well.

652
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 1: I think that they have some tips, but I would

653
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 1: recommend UM everyone getting more familiar with the land that

654
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 1: they are on currently, the tribes within their states and

655
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 1: what they can do UM, not just on the local level,

656
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,879
Speaker 1: but on the state level to support tribal sovereignty UM.

657
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 1: Because a lot of issues UH. For instance, I worked

658
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: on the on the state policy level in Washington and

659
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: in Montana, and both of those have a significant amount

660
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: of tribes UM, but you have a lot of legislation

661
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 1: that's trying to happen that infringes on tribal treaty rights.

662
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: And the thing is is UM as ugly as it

663
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: may be to say, but sometimes voices of non indigenous

664
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 1: people's are listened to more within those UM contexts. So

665
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 1: you need to get more involved on on those levels.

666
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 1: UM what sort of like at UM nonprofit organizations UM

667
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 1: work with your tribes or and what sort of issues

668
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,040
Speaker 1: are impacting tribes. And again, these are all going to

669
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: probably be surrounding travel sovereignty, so maybe it's UM fishing access,

670
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: hunting rights, etcetera. UM. I think that's a really good

671
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 1: way to make some more palate UM tangible change, to

672
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:20,399
Speaker 1: feel like you're doing something to support tribal sovereignty while

673
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 1: you're also educating yourself and making sure that their voices

674
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 1: are at the forefront. And that's also applicable to the

675
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 1: federal level, especially with as you already said, like stop

676
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: line three in Minnesota, contacting your legislators, etcetera, etcetera. And

677
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 1: I think also with when it comes to one of

678
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 1: one of the larger issues besides UM, environmental justice for

679
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 1: indigenous peoples such as pipelines you have right now missing

680
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: a murdered Indigenous women UM, so looking and looking into

681
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:00,359
Speaker 1: that UM a little bit more and who you can

682
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 1: support who's addressing those issues along with UM. There is

683
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 1: another movement with boarding schools right now because there's been

684
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: a lot of UM bodies of young children UM that

685
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 1: have been uncovered. And this is not an issue that

686
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 1: happened a long long time ago, like, for instance, my

687
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 1: grandmother went to a boarding school. UM. There's still schools

688
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 1: that UM although they're not called boarding schools right now

689
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 1: that we're boarding schools, but are still an operation under

690
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:43,320
Speaker 1: different names, etcetera. UM. So kind of familiarizing yourself with

691
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 1: those histories. And then also there's a UM national UM

692
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 1: I think it's called the National Boarding School Healing Coalition

693
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: based out of Minnesota, and UM looking into them and

694
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 1: supporting their efforts UM with this issue is also a

695
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 1: good place to start. UM. Is there anywhere that people

696
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:13,359
Speaker 1: can find you online? Yes? I don't. I don't really

697
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 1: use UM social media that much. Yeah, yeah, I try

698
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 1: not to. I don't know. If I want people to

699
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 1: find me, don't don't do it. It's it's better that

700
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 1: people don't find anyone online. It's better. We're all just

701
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: just posting into the void. There's nothing not just just

702
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: a void. Well that that is. I think going to

703
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 1: wrap up what we have today, Chris, I want to

704
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: close us out with a funny bit. I light your

705
00:49:53,680 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 1: local gas station on fire. Wow, Christ killing it? Oh

706
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:09,800
Speaker 1: my god, jeez wow. All right, goodbye for Buddy. It

707
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 1: could happen here as a production of cool Zone Media

708
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 1: or more podcasts from cool Zone Media. Visit our website

709
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,160
Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com, or check us out on

710
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

711
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It could

712
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 1: Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone Media dot com

713
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 1: slash sources. Thanks for listening,