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Speaker 1: From Mahard where Innovation, Money and power Collie in Silicon

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Speaker 1: Vallet NBN. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and

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Speaker 1: Ed Ludlow.

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Speaker 2: I'm Caroline Heider Bloomberg's World headquarters in New York.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Ed Ludlow live in cu Patino here at

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Speaker 3: the Apple campus. Behind me the Steve Jobs Theater. This

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Speaker 3: is a special Bloomberg Technology for coverage of Apple's iPhone event.

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Speaker 2: So much to digest coming up on this program. We'll have,

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Speaker 2: of course, that extended coverage on apple It's product launch

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Speaker 2: as the company of course spaces internal chip delays, restrictions

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Speaker 2: in China and a shifting supply chain. Will break down

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Speaker 2: everything you need to know and will cover Google's biggest

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Speaker 2: antitrust challenge yet that is the Department of Justice and

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Speaker 2: thirty five US states through the Search Chime, accusing it

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Speaker 2: of maintaining a monopoly over the search market. Or details ahead,

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Speaker 2: and we'll hear from Endeavor president as Mark Shapiro. As

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Speaker 2: the company completes it's takeover a WWE and combines it

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Speaker 2: with UFC to create a newly publicly traded fighting giant

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Speaker 2: will talk for streaming implications all that and so much

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Speaker 2: more ahead. But first and foremost, we've got to be

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Speaker 2: discussing what's happening in the world of Apple. And this

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Speaker 2: really is an exciting time in terms of the fifteen launch.

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Speaker 2: I almost feel we know exactly what to anticipate. We

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Speaker 2: always know. Our reporting is so strong here at Bloomberg,

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Speaker 2: but there is a lot of headwinds facing Apple. Do

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Speaker 2: you think that we can see the tailwinds today?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's why the iPhone is everything. That's kind

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Speaker 3: of the key of what we're expecting. Four variants of

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Speaker 3: the next generation iPhone fifteen, a base model, an iPhone

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Speaker 3: fifteen plus, and then a Pro and Pro Max. And

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Speaker 3: as you know, Caro, Apple kind of reserves its biggest

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Speaker 3: technological updates for those Pro lines. Higher price point it

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Speaker 3: raises the average selling price. Is it enough to convince

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Speaker 3: the consumer to upgrade? We know there are tens, if

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Speaker 3: not hundreds of millions of older generation iPhone handsets out there.

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Speaker 3: Are they going to be able to boost volumes or

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Speaker 3: are they going to rely on higher prices?

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Speaker 4: That's going to be a key question.

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Speaker 2: And now are we going to see revenues start to

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Speaker 2: increase again? This is of course the key to two

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Speaker 2: hundred billion dollar juggernaut of Apple's revenue, that is the phone.

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Speaker 2: Let's dig into it always, So please to welcome Mark

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Speaker 2: Gammon to the show, of course, who has already kind

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Speaker 2: of braced us for what to expect throughout the announcements.

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Speaker 2: But is it all about getting them to pay a

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Speaker 2: higher price point? Mark?

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Speaker 5: Certainly, Apple is pushing, like Ed said, it's latest features

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Speaker 5: and advancements to the higher end models. Right, They're going

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Speaker 5: to be differentiating the Pro models from the non Pro

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Speaker 5: models more than ever. Right, And on top of that,

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Speaker 5: the highest and the most expensive Pro model, the iPhone

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Speaker 5: fifteen Pro Max, is going to have additional features like

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Speaker 5: a periscope camera, which essentially means it can have a

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Speaker 5: much wider range of zoom using hardware, so being able

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Speaker 5: to zoom in double the amount you could on the

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Speaker 5: regular fifteen Pro without degrading the quality of the image.

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Speaker 5: So certainly they're pushing people to the top with the

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Speaker 5: better cameras, titanium and faster performance.

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Speaker 3: You know, Mark, there's a big emphasis on the higher

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Speaker 3: end processor for the Pro and Promax. Right a seventeen

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Speaker 3: You've reported about Apple's latest generation processor additional memory, So

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Speaker 3: there's a compute factor there, but there's also a battery

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Speaker 3: life factor. And then, of course, not of Apple's own volition,

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Speaker 3: a European Union mandate for USBC taughts us about what

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Speaker 3: you've reported on those two items.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, the three and nanimeter chip, this is going to

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Speaker 5: be Apple's first three nanimeter component. This is a chip

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Speaker 5: manufactured by TSMC, and what three nanimeter allows is better

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Speaker 5: battery life and better efficiency. So you'll see some battery

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Speaker 5: life upgrades on the fifteen Pro and fifteen Promacs.

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Speaker 4: Because of that. And of course back.

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Speaker 5: To that differentiation point, the higher end phones will get

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Speaker 5: that A seventeen, whereas the lower end, the fifteen and

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Speaker 5: fifteen plus the two entry level phones, those will both

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Speaker 5: get the A sixteen from the fourteen Pro and fourteen

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Speaker 5: Promacs from last year. And in terms of USBC, all

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Speaker 5: four models will get USBC instead of Lightning. But there

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Speaker 5: is a little bit of a trick here because the

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Speaker 5: Pro models they're going to get USBC with faster data

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Speaker 5: transfer speeds, which would be good if you take very

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Speaker 5: high resolution video on the Pro models to connect them

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Speaker 5: to your computer and transfer them over a cable, you'll

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Speaker 5: be able to do that at a much faster rate

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Speaker 5: with some specialized thunderbalk cables than you would on the

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Speaker 5: regular models. So certainly the talk of today will be

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Speaker 5: how the pro models are going to have extra bells

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Speaker 5: and whistles to really bring people up to the higher

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Speaker 5: end models.

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Speaker 3: Great, so all those lightning cables I've been accruing since

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Speaker 3: twenty twelve are now completely redundant, thank you to Bloomberg's

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Speaker 3: Mark Gum. And We're just getting started here in Koopertino,

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Speaker 3: and I'm delighted to bring in creative strategies principle analysts.

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Speaker 3: Carolina Milianacy. We will get to the USBC debate. I

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Speaker 3: think the big discussion we've had on Bloomberg technology has

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Speaker 3: been there is an unknown number of older generation iPhone

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Speaker 3: out there, if it's the tens of millions or hundreds

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Speaker 3: of millions we've reported, and what we think is coming

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Speaker 3: is the technology upgrade enough to spur this genuine upgrade cycle.

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Speaker 6: I think it is if you know all the rumors

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Speaker 6: play out. You know Mark was talking about moving people

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Speaker 6: to the higher price point. I think there's two markets, right,

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Speaker 6: you have the early adopters and the pro users that

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Speaker 6: can do that, but then you have a huge base

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Speaker 6: of people that have devices that are four or five

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Speaker 6: years old that need to continue to go on that path.

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Speaker 6: So creating more separation between the pro model and the

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Speaker 6: non pro model is critical to get those people to

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Speaker 6: move up.

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Speaker 3: As you know, I focus a lot on the technology

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Speaker 3: from a sort of processor compute standpoint that actually switching

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Speaker 3: to titanium sides or edges is interesting. Why would that

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Speaker 3: make a difference in the smartphone market?

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Speaker 6: I can tell you that from just from a consumer perspective,

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Speaker 6: getting into a store and holding one of those new

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Speaker 6: phones is the most tangible expression of the phone being different. Right,

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Speaker 6: weight on something that you use so much during the

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Speaker 6: day makes a difference. It might also invite some people

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Speaker 6: to go to the larger PHM factor because the weight

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Speaker 6: is no longer the factor that is deciding whether or

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Speaker 6: not you want to carry something that heavy. There's obviously

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Speaker 6: sustainability story as well linked to titanium, and it'd be

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Speaker 6: interesting to see how far Apple is going to push

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Speaker 6: by a sustainability story today.

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Speaker 4: Us b C did Apple wait too long?

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Speaker 3: European Union mandate is the end of twenty twenty four deadline.

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Speaker 4: They're going now what impact will that have.

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Speaker 6: It makes it easier for people that are within the ecosystem.

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Speaker 6: You know, it's one less cable. But as Mark was

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Speaker 6: talking about, for the pro version, if it does do

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Speaker 6: the higher data is nicer for creators rights, actually useful.

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Speaker 6: It's not just about doing the mandate for for the requirement.

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Speaker 6: It'd be interesting to see how they spin the story

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Speaker 6: because we all been waiting, you know, and from a

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Speaker 6: portfolio perspective, you know, the iPad has it, but the

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Speaker 6: phone does it, and so you start to see, you know,

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Speaker 6: discrepancies within the portfolio. Now we have one cable across

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Speaker 6: the board. I'm sure that the AirPods will also get

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Speaker 6: a new KSE with the USBC.

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Speaker 2: I am all in on one cable. Carolina, tell me

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Speaker 2: a little bit about how they're going to spin the

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Speaker 2: green element. You just took us there a little bit,

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Speaker 2: the sustainability narrative. Feel as though that's going to creep

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Speaker 2: into the watches as well.

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Speaker 6: It seems so with material and there's been a lot

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Speaker 6: of speculation about abandoning lever, both with their own bends

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Speaker 6: and with the relationship with Hermes, and I think that

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Speaker 6: if you look at Apple's DNA around sustainability. They always

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Speaker 6: had a very strong story. They have a goal to

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Speaker 6: be carbon neutral by twenty thirty across their supply chain

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Speaker 6: and products. They already carbon neutral for their own operations

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Speaker 6: already today, and so it'd be interesting to see whether

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Speaker 6: the material is one aspect of it. We saw the

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Speaker 6: badges today are all recycled. There's no plastic in today's

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Speaker 6: events badges. So it seems like sustainability is definitely going

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Speaker 6: to be a story.

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Speaker 2: What about the watch in general? How much are they

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Speaker 2: continuing to want to innovate on that particular product. How

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Speaker 2: important is it to them.

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Speaker 6: It's a very important product to them, just because health

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Speaker 6: and fitness is an important story to tell, and they

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Speaker 6: have made a huge impact. It's been interesting to see

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Speaker 6: how much the ultra version of the watch as taking

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Speaker 6: consumers by storm. It's not just for the fitness when

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Speaker 6: you know, we were talking about this actually on the

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Speaker 6: program program and said, there's a lot of wanna bees

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Speaker 6: health and fitness people that will buy this watch. So

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Speaker 6: for Apple is another way too lot customers in and

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Speaker 6: I know that they hate that term, but it's true.

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Speaker 6: You know, if you have your phone and your watch

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Speaker 6: is harder for you to move away and move to

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Speaker 6: a different brand and ecosystem.

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Speaker 3: Karlina, the company story for Apple has really been China.

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Speaker 3: In the June quarter, it was recording greater China eight

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Speaker 3: percent growth when there was overall decline. How important is

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Speaker 3: this iPhone fifteen for that market? Does it get traction

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Speaker 3: with the consumer in China?

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Speaker 2: It's very important.

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Speaker 6: And I think the story about the processor for the

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Speaker 6: Maxis and the pro is important for China. China has

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Speaker 6: always been a market that is more about real technology

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Speaker 6: and so processors or something, but they look at very

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Speaker 6: closely versus design and material. So I think that separating

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Speaker 6: that pro line with a different processor, with a dedicated

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Speaker 6: processor that can give you more is going to be

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Speaker 6: really critical for China.

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Speaker 3: Caroline and middle Lesi create a strategies principle analysts, This

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Speaker 3: is a strong start, Carriac to US coverage for Bloomberg

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Speaker 3: Technology to Apple's iPhone events.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about Google facing its biggest antitrust challenging yet

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Speaker 2: over accusations it's maintained a monopoly over the search market

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Speaker 2: via of course, those agreements with tech rivals. The company

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Speaker 2: facing a pair of lawsuits by the US Justice Department

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Speaker 2: and state attorneys general that could result in perhaps even

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Speaker 2: the breakup of the twenty five year old search chant

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Speaker 2: for more. That's bringing Jennifer and Wee Bloomberg Intelligence senior

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Speaker 2: litigation analyst who's been listening in already some opening statements.

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Speaker 2: Does this feel reminiscent to the nineties?

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Speaker 4: You know?

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Speaker 7: It does?

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Speaker 8: It really does.

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Speaker 9: And there's so many parallels being brought to the big,

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Speaker 9: huge case against Microsoft that I think we all know about.

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Speaker 9: And the thing is it is similar. You know, there

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Speaker 9: are allegations, you know, Microsoft was entering into agreements to

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Speaker 9: try to block out Netscape and Java, and the allegation

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Speaker 9: here is that Google's entering agreements to try to block

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Speaker 9: out Bright like being in duc, dot Go other companies

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Speaker 9: that people would use to search the Internet. Right, So

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Speaker 9: there are a lot of similarities there, but there are

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Speaker 9: also some very big differences because of what these tech

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Speaker 9: companies have learned from the Microsoft case.

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Speaker 2: And to that end, the argument's going to be coming

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Speaker 2: from Alphabet, the parent company of Google. Are they in

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Speaker 2: any way going to diverge from basically what we learned

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Speaker 2: to the nineteenth Yeah? I think so.

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Speaker 9: Look, they're going to say we've done nothing to prevent

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Speaker 9: anybody from using being or duc dot Go to search

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Speaker 9: the internet. You know, in Microsoft's case, it made it

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Speaker 9: very difficult for anybody using a Microsoft PC to download

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Speaker 9: and use Netscape right as a browser. They technically made

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Speaker 9: it difficult, you could not do it. But in this case,

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Speaker 9: actually it's quite easy to change your default search engine.

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Speaker 9: Google may have that agreement to start as the default

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Speaker 9: when you buy your device, but you can go in

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Speaker 9: and change your device. So it's questionable as to whether

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Speaker 9: is this really foreclosing Google competitors or isn't it And

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Speaker 9: so we're going to have to see how that testimony

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Speaker 9: comes out about how sticky it is to be the default,

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Speaker 9: how much users actually do switch back and.

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Speaker 2: Forth, And isn't it interesting that's coming all at this

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Speaker 2: moment where we're suddenly thinking the monopoli is under attack

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Speaker 2: from chat GPT four, the idea that AI is really

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Speaker 2: it's the competitor of choice now.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 9: The interesting thing about technology is that the markets can

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Speaker 9: change so quickly and so drastically, you know, And this

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Speaker 9: is one of the things that all the tech companies

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Speaker 9: will claim. Look, I may have a monopoly now, but

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Speaker 9: this could change any day. And we're always trying to

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Speaker 9: hold onto our position and technology changes and you really

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Speaker 9: can't judge it sort of the way the antitrust laws

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Speaker 9: are judging it right now.

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Speaker 2: You know, you have to think about chat GBT.

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Speaker 9: I tend to think chat gbt is a bigger threat

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Speaker 9: to Google, actually Google Search than this particular trial.

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Speaker 2: Interesting, Jenniferry, We're so pleased to have her hair from

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Speaker 2: Blue Meg Intelligence, and we want to dig into the

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Speaker 2: legal ramifications a little bit more, the arguments being set

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Speaker 2: forth for Rebecca Allen'sworth, professor of Law. I've write, Vanderbilt,

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Speaker 2: it is wonderful to have your perspective hair, Rebecca. And

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Speaker 2: the track record thus far of the government in the

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Speaker 2: antitrust case is it ain't been good? I mean, are

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Speaker 2: embracing yourself that perhaps they could land this one.

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Speaker 7: Well, all antitrust trials are really hard to win, and

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Speaker 7: this is no different. The government's arguments are good, and

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Speaker 7: I think that if they have a chance of winning

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Speaker 7: in any case, they have a chance of winning in

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Speaker 7: this one. I do take issue with the idea that

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Speaker 7: their track record has been bad. It's true that they've

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Speaker 7: lost a lot of cases in terms of the final outcome.

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Speaker 7: But along the way there have been some important holdings

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Speaker 7: that I think actually vindicate the current enforcement attitude that

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Speaker 7: the FTC and the dj is taking.

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Speaker 2: Let's dwell on that a little bit, because this isn't

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Speaker 2: just about winning individual fights, but it's about sort of

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Speaker 2: changing the narrative the leaning of how future FTCs as

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Speaker 2: well and future administrations might just tackle big tech. Do

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Speaker 2: you think that has changed?

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Speaker 4: I think it has.

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Speaker 7: I mean, there's a case from about fifteen years ago

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Speaker 7: actually involving Google, in which the court said that there

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Speaker 7: cannot be any antitrust harm in a market for which

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Speaker 7: consumers don't pay for the product, and that is not

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Speaker 7: likely to be the holding in this case because we've

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Speaker 7: realized that free products aren't really so free. So that's

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Speaker 7: just one example of how yes, it's it's it's changed

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Speaker 7: over time in.

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Speaker 2: Terms of the technicalities of this particular case. How do

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Speaker 2: you think the arguments will land thus far? When you're

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Speaker 2: hearing of the ten million being paid by Google to

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Speaker 2: maintain basically key relationships with phonemakers, how do you think

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Speaker 2: the alternatives are going to land coming from Google?

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Speaker 7: Well, I think that they have some strong arguments too, honestly.

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Speaker 2: So they're going to argue two things.

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Speaker 7: They're going to say, first of all, we are big

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Speaker 7: not because we have these exclusive dealing contracts, but we're

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Speaker 7: big because we were better. Consumers have voted. That's what

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Speaker 7: competition is supposed to do, and we won. We're the

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Speaker 7: best search engine. They're also going to say that these

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Speaker 7: are not actually exclusive dealing contracts. Competition is just a

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Speaker 7: click away. This, I think is a less strong argument,

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Speaker 7: and I do think this is a lot like the

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Speaker 7: argument made in the Microsoft case, but kind of put together,

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Speaker 7: there is an intuition that, you know, consumers really like Google.

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Speaker 7: They're not downloading bing and Duck Duck go to their phones,

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Speaker 7: and that's competition, so that will be hard to overcome

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Speaker 7: for the government.

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Speaker 2: We're looking at year to date chart of Alphabet shares

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Speaker 2: right now about fifty four percent. It doesn't feel as

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Speaker 2: though the investor and analyst community are particularly fretting over

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Speaker 2: some sort of big breakup or impact to the overall

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Speaker 2: revenue streams of this business. That's largely about where artificial

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Speaker 2: intelligence takes us. But for the here and the NARRABECKA,

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Speaker 2: do you think that some sort of risk does need

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Speaker 2: to be factored in how do you think that people

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Speaker 2: are bracing themselves.

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Speaker 7: So I think as far as the market risk, I

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Speaker 7: don't know that this trial poses a huge risk to

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Speaker 7: Google's bottom line. And that's for a few different reasons.

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Speaker 7: First of all, I think that they're more likely than

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Speaker 7: not to win. I think that maybe speaks to the

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Speaker 7: weakness of our antitrust laws.

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Speaker 2: But the other thing is Google.

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Speaker 7: Is big, and Google is dominant for reasons other than

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Speaker 7: these exclusive of dealing contracts. I think a breakup is unlikely.

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Speaker 7: I think even if the government wins, what they're going

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Speaker 7: to get is an injunction against these contracts, and it's

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Speaker 7: a small piece of why Google is so dominant. I

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Speaker 7: think this trial matters more for precedent and for anti

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Speaker 7: trust law and for what it means for the rest

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Speaker 7: of tech.

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Speaker 2: Rebecca, really great to get your expertise. We thank you

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Speaker 2: so much. Rebecca Alla's were founderment law school professor. This

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Speaker 2: one's going to roll on, so I have a feeling

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Speaker 2: we'll be inviting her back. Meanwhile, coming up, Cage Matches,

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Speaker 2: they've become part of a technology show much more than

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Speaker 2: I ever envisioned. But let's have a look at WW

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Speaker 2: and the UFC today combining as a public entity training

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Speaker 2: on the New York Stock Exchange. I'm going to be

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Speaker 2: discussing law within deva COO Mark Shapiro. That's next. This

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Speaker 2: is blouly bout technology time now for talking tech. First up,

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Speaker 2: arm preparing for the biggest IPO of the year, and

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Speaker 2: its CEO is pitching investors a little bit of a pivot.

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Speaker 2: Instead of focusing on chips for smartphones and other electronics

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Speaker 2: that sell for pennies, Army is doing complex design work,

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Speaker 2: it says, folks on specific products tailored for what sees

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Speaker 2: as a key area of growth, of course, largely being AI. Currently,

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Speaker 2: its listing is oversubscribed by ten times plus. Ali Baba

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Speaker 2: will put artificial intelligence and user experience at the top

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Speaker 2: of its priorities as its new leadership seeks to reclaim

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Speaker 2: customers and indeed market share. CEO Eddi Wu laid out

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Speaker 2: his vision in a memo to staff, stressing its approach

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Speaker 2: to go AI first, while not forgetting the one hundreds

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Speaker 2: of millions of users that helped create one of China's

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Speaker 2: largest corporations. And senators here in America will question the

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Speaker 2: nation's top technology leaders as Congress confronts thus posed by

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Speaker 2: what they see as a rapid rise of artificial intelligence. Tomorrow,

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Speaker 2: it's going to be a closed door inaugural AI forum.

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Speaker 2: You're going to see these two gentlemen, Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg,

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Speaker 2: also so of Pitchee and others who are going to

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Speaker 2: be attending to ask questions and concerns of the burgeoning technology. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 2: talking of those two individuals and Musk, remember we were

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Speaker 2: all talking about cage matches. Well, we're talking also fighting

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Speaker 2: more broadly, the billions of money it brings in Endeavor

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Speaker 2: today completing its takeover ww and combining it with UFC

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Speaker 2: to create a publicly traded fighting machine called TKO. That's

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Speaker 2: technical knockout being the boxing term. Now, earlier I discussed

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Speaker 2: the news with Endeavor and now TKO's COO and president,

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Speaker 2: that's Mark Shapiro, and this is what he talked about

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Speaker 2: in terms of competition taking.

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Speaker 10: Listen, the market completely overreacted last week because ultimately piff

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Speaker 10: came out said they were going to make one hundred

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Speaker 10: million dollar investment.

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Speaker 8: In the PFL. And you know what, We're fans of

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Speaker 8: the BFL.

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Speaker 10: We're fans of any entity that supports MMA for the UFC.

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Speaker 10: Rising tide lifts all boats on this front, and the

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Speaker 10: UFC is where everybody wants to get to. I mean,

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Speaker 10: the UFC is really the NFL of combat sports. So

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Speaker 10: when we welcome it, I think the overreaction was really.

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Speaker 8: About fighter pay.

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Speaker 10: If there's more and more competition and there's more and

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Speaker 10: more brands coming to the table, is fighter pagan to

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Speaker 10: get out of control and hurt UFC's margins.

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Speaker 8: And it couldn't be farther from the truth.

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Speaker 10: Because the real growth of UFC, the revenue growth, has

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Speaker 10: been driven by high margin revenue streams such as our

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Speaker 10: media deals and sponsorships, and at the end of the day,

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Speaker 10: any fighter pay increase can be absorbed by the increases

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Speaker 10: we're seeing in those revenue streams and results still in

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Speaker 10: margin accretion.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about the board that of course, he said

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Speaker 2: that you're going to be controlling, but there's a bit

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Speaker 2: of a key man risk with being McMahon himself ofwe

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Speaker 2: how do you see that and his real dedication as

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Speaker 2: executive chair to the overall TKO.

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Speaker 8: He's very similar to Dana White. I mean, Vince McMahon

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Speaker 8: is very similar. He's a founder.

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Speaker 10: He's a pioneer, he's an innovator, he's a hard charger,

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Speaker 10: he's got unbelievable relationships, and he's grown this sport from

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Speaker 10: nothing to be the global behemoth that it is. So

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Speaker 10: I welcome him being executive chairman. Ari and I are

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Speaker 10: very excited a partner with him. And just in the

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Speaker 10: early days we haven't been able to kind of get

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Speaker 10: in there and really integrate. We've already seen a willingness

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Speaker 10: to do that. Terrific communication, terrific collaboration, and I think

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Speaker 10: Vince really recognizes the areas of business he has undermonetized

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Speaker 10: or his team is undermonetized. And that's why the merger,

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Speaker 10: the partnership here, because we can teach them something, meaning

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Speaker 10: UFC an endeavor and WW can surely teach us something.

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Speaker 8: And at the end of the day, one plus one

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Speaker 8: equals five.

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Speaker 2: He's been subpoena though, is a legal risk.

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Speaker 10: What I would say on that is, you know, federal

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Speaker 10: law enforcement and regulatory agencies, they are doing their investigations

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Speaker 10: and there will be due process and we're not going

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Speaker 10: to get involved in that. Will stand by, well, listen,

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Speaker 10: We'll take our cues. He'll be executive chairman. He'll do

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Speaker 10: his day job and if somebody else tells us something we.

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Speaker 8: Need to do differently or pivot course correct, we will.

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Speaker 2: And let's talk about coursing and charting a course in

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Speaker 2: this economic environment where you are seemingly very excited by

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Speaker 2: the opportunities. Is two MONETI to get more brands in,

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Speaker 2: but the grands are scared to spend money right now.

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Speaker 2: The economy is volatile, to say the least. How do

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Speaker 2: you see that?

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Speaker 8: What I see in that is the thirty second spot.

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Speaker 10: Traditional ad budgets are certainly being compromised, but from an

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Speaker 10: activation standpoint, an experiential standpoint, which is where we sit right.

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Speaker 10: We have three hundred and fifty events annually. We have

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Speaker 10: a billion fans, we have a billion social followers. Advertisers

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Speaker 10: wann't access to those fans.

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Speaker 2: Meanwhile, we've got to talk Apple once again. We're going

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Speaker 2: to join by Miravell Lopez, founder and principe analyst of

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Speaker 2: Lopez Research. Her take and want to expect from the

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Speaker 2: key event. This is bloom Meg Technology. Welcome back to

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Speaker 2: blue Meag Technology. I'm karenin Hoied in New York. We

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Speaker 2: are going to check in on these markets on the

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Speaker 2: oral important day ahead of CPI print for macro, day

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Speaker 2: of micro news when it comes to Apple. Look in

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Speaker 2: the NAT one hundred, just off about two thirds and

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Speaker 2: percentage point. There is a nervousness out there regarding some

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Speaker 2: of the big macro headwinds and indeed, well some of

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Speaker 2: the read across from earnings that I'll dig into in

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Speaker 2: a moment. Bitcoin no actually getting a bit of a

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Speaker 2: push hiret for almost five percent on the upside twenty

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Speaker 2: six three hundred. And remember there's a lot of volatility

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Speaker 2: in overall crypto as we anticipate whether there'll be FTX sales.

439
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,679
Speaker 2: But we also think that Franklin Templeton seems to be

440
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,159
Speaker 2: adding its weight into the rush to get a spot

441
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 2: bitcoin ETF adding a little bit of well move music

442
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 2: to the upside on Bitcoin. I'm looking at Bloomberg Commodity

443
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,119
Speaker 2: Index up a ten percent despite a stronger dollar today.

444
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 2: That's more about the strength of oil and OPEC saying

445
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,920
Speaker 2: they're seeing these type markets. Let's move on from the

446
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 2: macro to the micro pictures. I want to shine a

447
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,440
Speaker 2: light on what's happening with Oracle, as I said, having

448
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,439
Speaker 2: its worst day since two thousand and two are off

449
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,639
Speaker 2: by twelve percent. We see revenue growth not living up

450
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 2: to expectations. They actually put in thirty percent increase in

451
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 2: terms of cloud revenue when the market wanted higher. We're

452
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,959
Speaker 2: seeing also Intel on the upside actually divesting some stakes

453
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,879
Speaker 2: in a nanofabricator in particular IMS, and we're seeing it

454
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 2: well ten percent state being offloaded. That makes the shares

455
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 2: just rise about two percent of selling it to TSMC.

456
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 2: And I'm looking lastly at Apple, maybe there's the question

457
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 2: of how much mister worried about the headwinds of China.

458
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 2: We're worried about the chip implications are still having to

459
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 2: turn to quol commed. We're off by one and a

460
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,160
Speaker 2: half percent as we anticipate those big unveils over there

461
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,879
Speaker 2: where you are in California.

462
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, these Apple events are always a bar is high

463
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 3: for the market moment. Right There's been twelve iPhone launch

464
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 3: events going back to twenty eleven. On the day the

465
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 3: stocks ended up down nine out of twelve, so that's

466
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 3: kind of the precedent that's set. There's so much more

467
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 3: to recap with thirty minutes from the start of Apple's

468
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 3: wonder last event, where we're expecting four variants of the

469
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 3: next gen iPhone fifteen.

470
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 4: Let's keep the conversation going.

471
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 3: Marabell Lopez Lopez research principle analyst joining us on Bloomberg

472
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 3: Technology right now. One thing we haven't quite talked about

473
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,640
Speaker 3: is the camera upgrade on the Pro and Pro Max.

474
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 3: Historically camera upgrades are important. How important are they this

475
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 3: time around?

476
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 4: For Apple?

477
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 11: They're a very popular feature with consumers. They're looking for

478
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 11: better cameras, and this time we have the opportunity to

479
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,640
Speaker 11: get a hardware based center option combined with AI software,

480
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 11: So we expect it's going to be a big leap

481
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 11: in performance and perhaps what all the wonderlust is all about.

482
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, Caroline and I have been very busy for the

483
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 3: last seven days talking about what's happening in China. Bloomberg

484
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 3: reported that China Central government is expanding a clamp down

485
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 3: on the use of foreign handsets, in particular iPhone for

486
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 3: government agencies and state backs enterprises. Is that a concern

487
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 3: ahead of a big launch of an ext gen iPhone

488
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 3: for Apple?

489
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 11: You know, we see it's still posturing right now. We

490
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 11: think it's a long way from a wholesale ban on

491
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 11: Apple tech In China. But it is concerning because it

492
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,880
Speaker 11: starts with the government and then it could roll into

493
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 11: government owned companies or government shall we say, government controlled companies.

494
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 11: So there's a lot of opportunity and risk associated with

495
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 11: this right now, but I think it's still too early

496
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 11: to call it as an issue for iPhone sales in

497
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 11: the near term.

498
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,360
Speaker 2: In the near term, then, is the US economy an

499
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,959
Speaker 2: issue or do you think that everyone is willing to

500
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 2: continue to pay up for a more high functioning and

501
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 2: indeed lighter device even though the price point just keeps

502
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 2: on getting higher.

503
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 11: I think where we are in the market right now

504
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 11: is that Apple is really targeting a premium consumer and

505
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,360
Speaker 11: aspirational consumer, and they are still willing to pay for

506
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 11: these device upgrades. We're expecting that there's going to be

507
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 11: a price increase on the promax, but we also expect

508
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 11: that that premium aspirational buyer will be willing to pay that.

509
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 11: The real risk for Apple is if they do not

510
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 11: have a set of smaller, cheaper product category, do they

511
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 11: see share to someone else in the market. And I

512
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 11: think their perspective is, we don't really care. We want

513
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 11: the premium buyer, we want the higher margin.

514
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 2: Okay, what about you know, the competitive space that is

515
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 2: wearables as well. How much focus do we give the

516
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 2: watch and the announcements.

517
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 11: I think the watch is something that we have continued

518
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 11: to wait for that big bang on and it's only

519
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 11: broken through a certain set at the consumer base. What

520
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 11: I do think will happen is that watch buyers are

521
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 11: very attracted to this product and will continue to buy

522
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 11: upgrades to this product because it is part of their

523
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 11: overarching health and fitness goal. The big question is can

524
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 11: we get new markets into it. They've made a play

525
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 11: for the elder population and a lot of people have

526
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 11: bought these devices for their family members. We still see

527
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 11: opportunity there. There is still actually an opportunity for the

528
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 11: wearable in the workplace, particularly as we look at first

529
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,640
Speaker 11: line workers where it can actually provide quite a bit

530
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 11: of health and safety. We've really not seen any penetration

531
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 11: in that market, so it could be the twenty twenty

532
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 11: four is the year that we start to see the

533
00:26:55,320 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 11: watch get better enterprise play as well.

534
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 3: Kind of other bucket of things. We expect a move

535
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 3: to USBC, USBC going into the pro AirPods, and then

536
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 3: some kind of you know, the watch changes that we

537
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 3: just outlined. How much importance do you place on the

538
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 3: other bucket that we just talked about.

539
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 11: I think the other bucket is nice to have. They'd

540
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 11: still sell the products without the USBC, but having said that,

541
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 11: there are regulations that have been proposed that they need

542
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 11: to address, and if you're going to do it in

543
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 11: one region, you have to do the all regions. We

544
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 11: think it's going to be really good for consumers. It's

545
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 11: really going to open up the ecosystem to a wide

546
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 11: range of companies that already have USBC product. So that

547
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 11: is going to be good for Apple and good for

548
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 11: the people that build around the smartphone smart watch ecosystem.

549
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 3: Marabob, there's a piece of data. It's been stuck in

550
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 3: my head for a few days now. Tim Cook talked

551
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 3: about several quarters of slow down in the US smartphone market,

552
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 3: three straight quarters of sales declines for Apple. But if

553
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 3: you look at IDC in that period, particularly the second quarter,

554
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 3: they grew market share even in a market that's pulling

555
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 3: back against Samsung. What does that tell you Apple's ability

556
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 3: to gain market share.

557
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 11: They've had tremendous resilience and what's been looking like a

558
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 11: major smartphone slowdown splash smartphone winner. Similar to what we've

559
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 11: seen in the PC market, there could be double digital

560
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 11: clients that continue on. But what we're seeing happening with

561
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 11: Apple is the strength of the Apple ecosystem in terms

562
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 11: of the applications and in terms of the cool factor

563
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 11: has really kept them in this more Brazilian position. We

564
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 11: expect that since they're the only provider of iOS software

565
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 11: right now, that they're going to have strength through the

566
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 11: next several quarters, despite it being a difficult market. Perhaps

567
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 11: not as strong as we would all like to see

568
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 11: them perform, but I still think they'll do well compared

569
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 11: to the market at large.

570
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 2: Well do they need to remind us of the vision

571
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 2: pro and the cool factor of that.

572
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 11: They do, But the reality is it still seems like

573
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 11: that being a market that's going to really add top

574
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 11: line and bottom line dollars to Apple is still quite

575
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 11: a few quarters away. I think they'll talk about it

576
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 11: so that they can keep the momentum alive to get

577
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 11: people thinking about it for twenty four buys, but I'm

578
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 11: not sure it's going to be a big year for

579
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 11: that this coming year.

580
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 2: And lastly, I mean, what everyone has waited for a

581
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 2: void to be filled by Apple is what they're going

582
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 2: to be doing about artificial intelligence, how.

583
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 12: They're going to be intweaving that within its services. You

584
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 12: already talk about the power of the Apple ecosystem. Within that,

585
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 12: I think fintech, but I also think Siri, and I

586
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 12: think about the ways that ultimately general to AI might

587
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 12: up the antea.

588
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 2: Are you waiting for that moment?

589
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 11: I think we're already starting to see that moment. We're

590
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 11: seeing it in software that's being built, we're seeing in

591
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 11: the chipsets that Apple provides. And you back on the

592
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 11: earlier discussion about the chipset, this has been a big

593
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 11: push and concern for Apple, and being able to control

594
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 11: at least some of the hardware behind that allows them

595
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 11: to be better positioned to actually embraces Jenny I with

596
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 11: that is really rushing over us at this point in time.

597
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 11: So I think that they'll have a strong showing and

598
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 11: AI related products as a result of the power of

599
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 11: the processor. And it's one of the things that keeps

600
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 11: the phone expensive, but it's also one of the things

601
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 11: that keeps the phone.

602
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 2: Interesting and about Lopez founder and principle analysts of Lopez Research.

603
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 2: Great to have your take there and Ed, isn't it

604
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 2: interesting that Marabella ends her point on it keeps on

605
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 2: allowing them to up the price point, But it makes

606
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 2: you more interesting.

607
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 9: Ed.

608
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, if your dan ives a webburst, you point to

609
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty million old generation iPhones around the

610
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 3: world that are due for upgrade, and that drives volumes.

611
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 3: If you're Anna rag Rana at Bloomberg Intelligence our analysts,

612
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 3: he would say, look at prices. iPhone fourteen Pro is

613
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 3: nine hundred and ninety nine US dollars. What if what

614
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 3: if Apple price is the iPhone fifteen pro and promax

615
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 3: incrementally higher or substantively higher than that? Are those kind

616
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 3: of first adopters that Carolina mean Lacey was talking about.

617
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 3: Are they willing to spend at that price point?

618
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 2: And to that point, what does it do for the

619
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 2: overarching average selling point? Does it mean that we still

620
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 2: see people gravitating to those pros? Do they then decide, actually,

621
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 2: you know, I can forsake a bit of an upgrade

622
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 2: in my camera here, and indeed perhaps some speed to

623
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 2: the chip. I'd rather hold on out and maybe just

624
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: wait until I can get an iPhone fifteen on this

625
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 2: particular generation. I don't know and the people you're speaking

626
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 2: to in California, I feel that they're early adopters. They're

627
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 2: going to be in no matter what, right, Yeah, yeah.

628
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 3: They focus on the technology, so the processor has faster speeds,

629
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 3: more memory added. But the other benefit is better battery

630
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 3: life or battery performance, which for everyone watching this program,

631
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 3: let's all agree battery life on iPhone is key.

632
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, mister two phones ed, I'm sure you can agree. Meanwhile,

633
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 2: coming up, look, we're going to have a bit of

634
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 2: a book club moment, going to take a pass from

635
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,479
Speaker 2: Apple just for a split second and discuss two new

636
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 2: books detailing the thoughts and actions made by well some

637
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 2: pretty polarizing figures, Sam Badman Freed in a musk Stay tuned.

638
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 2: There's a been technology. It feels an age ago. But boy,

639
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 2: the collapse of Sam Badman Freed's FTX it sent shock

640
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 2: waves throughout the crypto market, and it rather lined up

641
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 2: in time for a new book called Number Go Up.

642
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 2: Since side crypto's wild rise and staggering for makes investigative reporters,

643
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 2: Fox goes down basically an entire rabbit hole to learn

644
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 2: more about digital tokens, lesser known mechanics of the industry,

645
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 2: and well, zee, am I fair in saying that you

646
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: came back kind of underwhelmed by the whole situation. Was

647
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 2: that it felt as though it was just funny, raucous, absurd,

648
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 2: but at times pretty shocking. Remind us how it all began.

649
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 13: So I started out like a lot of people just

650
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 13: fall like I saw my friends getting big scores on dogecoin,

651
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 13: Salana like whatever. I thought the whole thing was kind

652
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 13: of annoying. It seemed dumb, but I wanted to I

653
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 13: got sucked in. I decided to investigate, and I found

654
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 13: myself on like this crazy adventure. And but two years

655
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 13: later I was in Cambodia investigating crypto fueled human trafficking.

656
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 13: And then I was at Sam Bankman Freed's penthouse in

657
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 13: the Bahamas, just before the cops showed up. So even

658
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 13: though I resisted, I was glad I went down the

659
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 13: crypto rabbit hole.

660
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 2: I can imagine when you start to describe writings around

661
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 2: human trafficking, that those are the moments as a journalist

662
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 2: you need but don't always want. I mean, what was

663
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 2: the really dark underbelly or what was happening in the crypto world?

664
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 13: So you always hear things about like, oh, crypto might

665
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 13: be used for money laundering or other illicit purposes. What

666
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 13: I found is that there are whole like office parks

667
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 13: in Cambodia and southwestern cam where there's like Flora after Flora,

668
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 13: people who are working around the clock under thread of

669
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 13: beatings and torture, sending spam text messages to people in

670
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:13,240
Speaker 13: richer countries trying to trick them into investing in crypto

671
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 13: and other like crypto and gambling scams.

672
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 2: Was there any repercussion from that? Are you starting to see?

673
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 2: I mean, ultimately we had to see a blow up

674
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 2: of gargantuan proportions for regulators for people to start to

675
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 2: become involved and dig more deeply or what ultimately was

676
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 2: the FTX showdown. But what about human trafficking and Cambodia?

677
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 2: Who is looking at that?

678
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 13: Yeah, So it's starting to get more attention from like Interpool,

679
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 13: the UN. It's like an international issue, but within the

680
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,879
Speaker 13: crypto world, like when I was at it's been sort

681
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 13: of ignored. Like when I went to go talk to

682
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 13: Sam Bankman feed for the last time as apartment when

683
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 13: things were blowing up, I was like, have you read

684
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 13: about any of this like, do you realize that some

685
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 13: of these criminals are sending money like to your exchange

686
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 13: And he's like hmm, like that sounds bad.

687
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 2: So go into his psyche, like obviously you saw him

688
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 2: at probably the most extraordinary moment, But what do you

689
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,760
Speaker 2: think his overwhelming drive was. Because we've got to remember,

690
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 2: the trial is happening relatively soon, and he's still deeming himself,

691
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 2: you know, not guilty.

692
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 13: So when I met him, I was fascinated by this

693
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 13: idea that like when he was a teenager, he was like,

694
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 13: I want to do something good for the world. Somebody

695
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 13: convinced him the best thing to do would be to

696
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 13: get rich, and then like ten years later, at least

697
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,879
Speaker 13: on paper, he's one of the richest guys in the world.

698
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 13: And I actually some people think that like it was

699
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 13: all a lie, he was a monster the whole time.

700
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 13: I actually think that this drive, this belief in his

701
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 13: own self righteousness, led him to do take insane risks

702
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 13: and led him to where he is today.

703
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 2: He ris I mean, ultimately the reason crypto is sort

704
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 2: of like a media gift that keeps on giving and

705
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 2: in an extraordinary rabbit hole field to have gone down

706
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 2: is sort of celebrity meets vast quantities of cash meets

707
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:05,320
Speaker 2: overnight success meets ridiculous acronyms, all sort of bombarded into one.

708
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 2: There's a lot of Seanan Freuder. There's a lot of like,

709
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 2: how these you know, celebrities and lost vast amounts on NFTs.

710
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 2: But I mean you bought a board ape at one point,

711
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 2: I mean, how do you think this ends up playing out? Ultimately?

712
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 2: Everyone loses money.

713
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 13: I mean, if you anyone who's seen like the last

714
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 13: couple of years, if you've paid any attention, it's hard

715
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 13: to say, like, oh, let's run it all back, like

716
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,879
Speaker 13: let's wait for the next cycle. I think that's that's

717
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 13: pretty unlikely. But it was pretty fun to be a

718
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 13: part of it this last time. And yeah, buying a

719
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 13: board ape. I got to go to Apefest, which was

720
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,439
Speaker 13: like a week long party for people who own these

721
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 13: one hundred thousand dollars ugly cartoon JPEGs.

722
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 2: But that's loyalty, right, that's creating a club. You think

723
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 2: that's dead entirely.

724
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 4: The party costs.

725
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 13: I mean for twenty grand, you got to go mill

726
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 13: around with a bunch of drunk dudes. I did get

727
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 13: to confront Jimmy Fallon about the investment advice that he

728
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 13: given these people. So for me, I think I was

729
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 13: happy I went, But I think most people are going

730
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 13: to be more mad about all the money they're losing

731
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 13: than happy about you know, they got to see Amy

732
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 13: Schumer tell some jokes about NFTs.

733
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 2: Maybe Jimmy Fallon wasn't so pleased you were there either,

734
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 2: But Zeke, I'm glad you were and to tell the story.

735
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 2: What an amazing read. Just go read it. He's always

736
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 2: got some incredible anecdotes and really deep, thoughtful, important reporting.

737
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 2: Zeke Fox, We thank him. Number go up. It's now

738
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,320
Speaker 2: available for purchase. Meanwhile, let's talk about another key book

739
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 2: you might be wanting to look at. The biography about

740
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 2: Elon Musk's shedding liked about well has often dismissive behavior

741
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 2: when given advice by powerful advisors. Walter Isaacson's Elon Musk

742
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 2: comes out this week. Too Remote New social media reporter

743
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 2: Asha Counts. You had a deep dive on it, and

744
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 2: I think particularly a shocking in there. As someone who

745
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 2: covers the ins and outs of Elon must day in.

746
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 8: Day out.

747
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 14: You know, when you start to cover Elan Musk, you

748
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 14: realize you shouldn't be shocked by anything, right, expect everything.

749
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 14: But there were a few anecdotes and details that I

750
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 14: thought were interesting. So he had more advisors than I

751
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 14: had initially realized. So people like David Zaslov from warn

752
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 14: about his discovery advised him and was saying, hey, you're

753
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 14: kind of engaging in some self destructive behaviors that are

754
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 14: not helping advertisers want to spend money on your platform.

755
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 14: And they had about an hour on conversation about that,

756
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 14: and he was like, you should focus on video, you

757
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 14: should make your ads better. I think must kind of

758
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 14: ignored that, cause he continued to send out tweets and

759
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 14: things that kind of irked advertisers. But it was interesting

760
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 14: that I didn't know that Zaslov advised him at that point.

761
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 2: I mean, ninety five chapters and six hundred pages, how

762
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 2: much of this is about leadership style? How much of

763
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 2: this is going to sort of inform us about what

764
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 2: apparently and could well be happening within the businesses he

765
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 2: runs at the moment?

766
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 14: I mean, I think it gives you some sense of

767
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 14: how he is as a leader. Right, there's a lot

768
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 14: of stories and details of musk kind of going out

769
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 14: and taking charge or making erratic decisions, which we all

770
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 14: kind of thought he was doing that and sort of

771
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,839
Speaker 14: knew from what he was doing with like Twitter which

772
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:58,919
Speaker 14: is now X or other companies, but you really start

773
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 14: to see kind of behind this scenes how many people

774
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 14: were saying, hey, maybe you shouldn't do that, right, even

775
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 14: down to his own brother was like, I don't know

776
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 14: if you should tweet that, and was not able to

777
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 14: sleep at night because he was worried about what Elon

778
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 14: might tweet. So you start to see details like that

779
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 14: that there were more people in his inner circle that

780
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 14: were sort of advising him and must kind of just

781
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 14: made his own decisions.

782
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 2: And to that point, nation does it therefore drive an

783
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 2: investor base looking for dedication someone who is completely hands

784
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 2: at the wheel to pardon a partner of tesla En

785
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 2: showing that he is doing what he needs to be

786
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 2: doing when it comes to an incredibly valuable private company

787
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 2: that is SpaceX.

788
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 14: I mean it's a good question, right. I think investors

789
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 14: are probably mixed. I think it sounds like some right,

790
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 14: especially some venture capitalists that he's close to, like David

791
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 14: sachs Or and Andriyson liked that must sort of was

792
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 14: willing to break the rules and go out and do

793
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,359
Speaker 14: things that people said couldn't be done. And then other

794
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 14: people were like, I don't want to deal with this.

795
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,399
Speaker 14: He's too erratic and I can't trust what decision he's

796
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 14: going to make. Like the chair of Tesla at one

797
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 14: point was like, Hey, we're concerned about how your work

798
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 14: on on Twitter and x is distracting from what you

799
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 14: should be doing at Tesla. And I'm sure SpaceX investor

800
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 14: has felt the same.

801
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 2: So to mix to mix, and of course he's got

802
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 2: XAI as well to be taken under his wing. Aisha

803
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 2: counts really fascinating deep dive on the book that many

804
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 2: are going to be eyeing up. We thank you. The

805
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 2: Apple Wanderlust event starts in watch a few minutes time

806
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 2: one pm Eastern Times, six minutes from now ed you're

807
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 2: live there in Kupertino.

808
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 3: Getting exciting, Yeah, I'm getting excited. You know, this is

809
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:39,959
Speaker 3: a big event. It actually feels like a much bigger

810
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,800
Speaker 3: event than WWDC when we got the Vision Pro. And

811
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 3: it kind of makes sense, right, Remember ww DC's on

812
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 3: the developer side. This is about iPhone two hundred billion

813
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 3: dollars of sales last year. Fifty percent of revenue. It

814
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 3: touches people all over the world. We know what's coming

815
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 3: four variants of the iPhone fifteen. What we don't know

816
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 3: is about pricing, like what if they raise prices in

817
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:00,240
Speaker 3: a big.

818
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 2: And whether people want to be going to that average

819
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 2: selling price because it's interesting, isn't it. Dovetails at a

820
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 2: moment where they've been looking for new types of buyers,

821
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,280
Speaker 2: a middle class growing in India, but also that speaks

822
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,439
Speaker 2: to the supply chain change that we see at hand

823
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 2: as well.

824
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 3: This was really important Bloomberg reporting overnight. According to our sources,

825
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,760
Speaker 3: this will be the first launch where an India assembled

826
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 3: iPhone will hit the market in India and other markets

827
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 3: around the world straight away. Traditionally it's made in China

828
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 3: and then six to nine months later, the lower spec

829
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,760
Speaker 3: base models of iPhone start production in fox Com facilities

830
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 3: in India. What we're hearing from sources is they're accelerating

831
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 3: that starting straight away in India, which speaks to the

832
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 3: supply chain story.

833
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 2: And maybe just shows the focus on diversifying and consumer

834
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 2: base that at the moment we potentially see headwinds coming,

835
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,439
Speaker 2: particularly in their Chinese buyer. At the moment as well.

836
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 2: Ed you're going to be telling this global story, but

837
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 2: it's an investor based story, it's a revenue driven story,

838
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:58,839
Speaker 2: and we're going to be all across it because coming up,

839
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 2: we've got our coverage continuing. It's a Bluemberg Technology Extended

840
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 2: Special Edition. We're going to be focused on guess what

841
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 2: Apple as we count you down to the annual product

842
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 2: launch just a few minutes away. We're going to be

843
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 2: live right here from New York, right over there in Coopatino,

844
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 2: and this really is a focus on a raft of products,

845
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,840
Speaker 2: the high end, the pros, the max Is, the overall

846
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 2: fifteen's what they're going to have on offer, the cameras,

847
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 2: the chips, what goes into them, and indeed a fair

848
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 2: focus on the smart watch too. From New York. This

849
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 2: is gonna make technology