1 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: You tell young people, hey, work hard and put all 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: your energy into this and all this stuff. I get 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: all that, but to me, that's baked in the bottom 4 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: line in this is this is supposed to be fun. 5 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: Everybody gotten into this for fun. When you go to 6 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: a game, that shouldn't be an agonizing experience, like you 7 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,639 Speaker 1: want your kid to do well because your kid wants 8 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: to do well, not because you know it reflects somehow 9 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: on you. 10 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 2: This is the Reform Sports Project, a podcast about restoring 11 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 2: healthy balance and perspective in all areas of sports through 12 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 2: education and advocacy. Hi, this is Nick Bonacor from the 13 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 2: Reform Sports Podcast. My guest today is Jay billis ESPN 14 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 2: basketball analyst, former professional basketball player and coach at Duke University, 15 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 2: and practicing commercial litigation attorney in North Carolina. While in 16 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 2: law school, Jay served as an assistant coach at Duke 17 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 2: under Mike Rzewski, helping guide the team to back to 18 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 2: back national championships in nineteen ninety one and nineteen ninety two. 19 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety five, Billis joined and has since become 20 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 2: one of the most popular college basketball analysts, a New 21 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 2: York Times bestselling author, and sought after keynote speaker, Jay 22 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 2: and I discussed why competitiveness is not an excuse for 23 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 2: bad behavior, helping your kids find the right college environment, 24 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 2: and why developing meaningful relationships make sports at any level worthwhile. 25 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 2: I got another awesome guest. This dude is an absolute stud. 26 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 2: We're coming up to his time a year college hoops. 27 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 2: Really really excited and of course being born and raised 28 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 2: in Connecticut, being a diehard Yukonusky fan my whole life. 29 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 2: It's an extra special year going to the men's season, 30 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 2: in particular coming off a national title. But the man, 31 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:39,960 Speaker 2: the myth of legend. I'm pumped to have him, Jay 32 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 2: Billis Jay, thanks so much for hopping on man. 33 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: Be great to be with you. Thanks for having me, Yeah, 34 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: for sure. 35 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 2: And first of all, I want to give a shout 36 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 2: out to Allen Stein Junior for hooking us up. Allen's 37 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 2: come on the show. He's a great dude, does amazing 38 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 2: work and I appreciate him. How did you and Allen connect? 39 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: Over the years? We met working Nike Skills Academies. So 40 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: Alan and I work together for I don't know how 41 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: many years now, maybe twenty, and and you know he 42 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: started with us as a you know, exercise physiologist and 43 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: working with players, and I knew he was at Damatha uh. 44 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: And then you know, he and I started a basketball 45 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: camp together. It's got my name on it, but it's 46 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,679 Speaker 1: a collaborative effort, and so we've worked together forever. I 47 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: love Alan. I think he's the best dude. 48 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 2: I love it, And I'm glad that you that you 49 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 2: went there with the camp because j billis camps and 50 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 2: obviously I had no idea that you and Alan were, 51 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 2: you know, partners in the deal. But you know, one 52 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 2: thing I noticed about your camp, at least on your website. 53 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 2: I love for you to dig in there. There's a 54 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 2: specific part, you know, dedicated to parental education. Why is 55 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 2: the parental education such an important piece, so much so 56 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 2: that you actually have like open clinics and seminars at 57 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 2: your skills camp. 58 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's multi multi part. You parents that they usually 59 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: go through this only and they have a lot of questions. 60 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: It's a difficult process, or at least can seem difficult 61 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: because you don't know exactly what's coming at you when 62 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,679 Speaker 1: your son or daughter becomes a recruited athlete, a recruitible athlete, 63 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: or if you want them to be recruited. It seems 64 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: like it's a daunting thing, and you know, you need 65 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: some information or at least feel like you do. And 66 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: we started the parental programming at our basketball camp very 67 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: early on. But you know, selfishly, there were a couple 68 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: of reasons for it. One, you know, we wanted to 69 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: have good programming and answer questions and be able to 70 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: give parents what they needed because we had a lot 71 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: of people associated with our camp that knew the process 72 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: and they were getting all these questions anyway, so why 73 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: not put it together for the parents in a digestible 74 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: way that they could really use and then they could 75 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: all ask questions and that might prompt further discussion having 76 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: everyone together. And honestly and frankly, one of the reasons 77 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: we did it was, you know, I didn't go to 78 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: a lot of camps when I was a kid, but 79 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: I did go to a couple when I was in 80 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: high school, and they were these you know, recruiting camps 81 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: like five Star. Went to thing called sports World Superstar 82 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: Camp on the West Coast where there were you know, 83 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 1: it was nothing but college basketball coaches and all that stuff, 84 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: and you know, parents dropped you off. And my parents 85 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 1: didn't stay and watch, and now the parents, not all 86 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: of them, but the parents stay and watch, and so 87 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: our facilities we have to have places where they can 88 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: stay and watch. And the truth is, one of the 89 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: reasons we started that was to get the parents away 90 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: from the players a little bit and so they could 91 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: have some time to just play without being watched every 92 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 1: five seconds. And that's not a negative on parents, because 93 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: I think they're invested and you know, they enjoy watching 94 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: their kids play. To me, that's a positive. But it's 95 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: not a positive all the time. I mean, there are 96 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 1: times when it's good for the players to just be 97 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 1: on their own. They don't have to look over their shoulder, 98 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 1: things like that. We have rules at the camp where 99 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: no cheering and you know, no comments to official stuff 100 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: like that. The parents are all great about it because 101 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: it's not a basketball game. It's a camp, so it's 102 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: a little bit different. 103 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 2: So where do you think when you say it's great, 104 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 2: you know in many ways, but at times it can 105 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,479 Speaker 2: you know, have an adverse effect. When do you think 106 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 2: over involvement or you know, helicopter parent type thing, When 107 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: does that become something where it's a negative or can 108 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 2: you give any specific instances where you're like, dude, this 109 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 2: is a little bit overboard. 110 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: I think it's kind of a know it when you 111 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: see a thing. And look, every child is different and 112 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:41,119 Speaker 1: every parental relationship is different, so there's no set rules 113 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: to this. But I think with anything else in parent 114 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 1: child relationships, where if your kid is worried about you 115 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: when they're playing, I mean, this is supposed to be fun. 116 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: If they make a mistake and all of a sudden 117 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: they're looking up in the stands to see your reaction, 118 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: it's great that they know that you're there. I mean, 119 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: that's a nice thing. And I can only speak for me. 120 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:08,479 Speaker 1: When I was a player, one of the things I 121 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: appreciated about my dad especially was that I didn't get 122 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,359 Speaker 1: a lot of feedback from my dad on my play. 123 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 1: My parents cared about did I behave myself and I 124 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: did I conduct myself appropriately? Stuff like that. You know, 125 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: that was the parental stuff that they were into. How 126 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: I played was up to me, and feedback to me 127 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 1: as a player was up to my coaches, and for 128 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: the most part they stayed out of that. I mean 129 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: they would say good game, and hey, you really played 130 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: well and all that stuff. But my dad really wanted 131 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: to hear about, Hey, what was said in the locker 132 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: room or what was said in the huddle. He liked 133 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: stories like that, but he pretty much stayed out of that. 134 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,359 Speaker 1: And he was my dad, not my coach. And for me, 135 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: when my son was playing au basketball or high school 136 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: ball growing up or you know, I didn't tell him 137 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: what to do. That wasn't my place. If he came 138 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: to me and had had a question, I'd answer it, 139 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: but that was his thing, not my thing. And you know, 140 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: I was there to support him, not coach him or 141 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: you know, be constant feedback. I didn't want there to 142 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: be any pressure there because if he didn't want to 143 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: play anymore, if he wanted to, you know, play baseball 144 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: or soccer or something like that, fine, I was. I 145 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: was there to support him, not have him do what 146 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: I felt he should do. And so it's it's sort 147 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: of walking that line of knowing your kid and and 148 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: what's right for him. It's okay to emphasize things, and 149 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: but you know I was I probably had the same 150 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: experience as most others. You know, you think you know 151 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: a little bit about basketball or something, and my son 152 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: would come to my camp and that was the only 153 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: time I felt like, well, I get to tell him 154 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: what I think is because I would do that with 155 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,679 Speaker 1: any player at my camp. But it was always better 156 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: when somebody else told it to him. If I said something, 157 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: it didn't resonate as much as when somebody else said it. 158 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: And I remember when he went to college. You know, 159 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: I had told him in high school he had said something, 160 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: and I said, well, you know it wouldn't wouldn't hurt 161 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: you get a little stronger, you know, be a little 162 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: bit more physical out there, and you don't need to 163 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: go into the weight room. I mean, you do a 164 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: hundred push ups in the morning, a hundred night, do 165 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: some of these things to get a little bit stronger, 166 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: because you know, strength on the court is a good thing. 167 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: And after his freshman year at Wake Forest, he played 168 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: at wake Forest, he came back and he says, you know, Dad, 169 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: I really need to get stronger. And I was like, well, 170 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: I wonder where I heard that before. But it doesn't 171 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: you know, coming from a parent, it doesn't always resonate, 172 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,439 Speaker 1: and so sometimes other voices are actually better. 173 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 2: I could speak to that, you know, when I was 174 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 2: when I was an athlete in high school before college, 175 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 2: my Dad couldn't tell me anything. I knew way more 176 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 2: than him, And of course, in hindsight, you're like would 177 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 2: an idiot, and it's it's tough. You're you're Jay Bilish, 178 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 2: have all this experience, but you're still Dad. And that's 179 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 2: a very common theme. I want to ask, like with 180 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 2: regard to the education piece or maybe the content that 181 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:00,959 Speaker 2: you helped share with the parents, like have you had 182 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 2: to really, you know, adjust here, particularly in the last 183 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 2: few years as the portal and NIL has become such 184 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 2: a now it's mainstream or whatever, but it's really been 185 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 2: it seems like a crash course learning experience. Seems like 186 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 2: the NCAA, everyone's still adjusting, you know, a lot of 187 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 2: most people have no idea how to navigate it. So 188 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 2: is that something that you incorporate in the parental education 189 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 2: do you think you need to? And also, if you 190 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 2: can expand a little bit, like how do you feel 191 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 2: like in a pro and conway, the portal and NIL 192 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 2: are impacting college sports, particularly you know, men's women's basketball. 193 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: Well, the short answer to your question is, yes, we 194 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: do incorporate all of those things. You know, my input 195 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: in it is in helping your child pick the right 196 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: school is really the environment you're putting your child into. 197 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: And I think sometimes you can get a little wrapped 198 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: up and you know, who wants your kid the most? 199 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: Will your kid play there? What position? How much playing time? Early? 200 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: Things like that, Those things don't really matter as much. 201 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: What really matters is the right environment. And that's not 202 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: just the locker room. It's not just the team. It 203 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: goes to the entire school. And you know, I remember 204 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: telling my son when he was looking is you know, 205 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: one of the things you need to think about is 206 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: what would your happiness look like if you stop playing basketball? 207 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: What if you get hurt or what if you decide, 208 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: you know, in an odd way, what if you decide 209 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: you don't want to play anymore? Is that the right place? 210 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: Is that the place you'd want to be, because it's 211 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: about more than basketball or whatever sport your child is playing. 212 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: And I think you do need to look at the 213 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: locker room environment. What's the track record of players who 214 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: have been there? Do they come back? Because you know, 215 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 1: you are putting your kid into an environment where other 216 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: people are going to impact your kid. But you remember, 217 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: I try to emphasize this too. You know, even though 218 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: you tell young people hey, work hard and put all 219 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: your energy into this and all this stuff. I get 220 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,079 Speaker 1: all that, but to me, that's baked in the bottom 221 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 1: line in this is this is supposed to be fun. 222 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: Everybody got into this for fun. You know. I play 223 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: a lot of golf, and I practice and I work 224 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: at it, but I do it because it's fun and 225 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: I want to get better at it so I can 226 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: enjoy it more. It's not that I'm you know, I'm 227 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: putting my entire identity into this kind of thing. And 228 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: to me, the parents need to keep that in mind. 229 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: When you go to a game, it's fun for you 230 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: to watch your kid. It's supposed to be fun. It 231 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: shouldn't be an agonizing experience, like you want your kid 232 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: to do well because your kid wants to do well, 233 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: not because you know it reflects somehow on you. And 234 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: I think my parents were that way. They enjoyed going 235 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: to the games and watching and being there and being 236 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: a part of it. Their investment, you know, going back 237 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: to the conducting yourself piece and the behavior piece, Like 238 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: my parents got to tell me what to do at home, 239 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: like they were boss at home, but when I was out, 240 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: somebody else was in charge, and they were pretty respectful 241 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,559 Speaker 1: of that, and that was that was a line they 242 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: walked that I really appreciated. I think I appreciated at 243 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: the time, but definitely after and when I became a parent, 244 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: I really appreciated it because that was my thing. It 245 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: wasn't their thing, and they were supporting me in something 246 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: I wanted to do and enjoyed doing. And it wasn't 247 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: for them to be telling me what to do or 248 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: how to you know, how to rebound or why didn't 249 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: I go after that ball? You know, that's not their thing. 250 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 2: It's interesting, though, because it seems as though and it 251 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,839 Speaker 2: always I guess you can always say it has been 252 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 2: for the select few, where in some instances it's a 253 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 2: business decision. I mean, particularly now where you know, you 254 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 2: have kids signing you know, hundreds of thousand or a 255 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 2: million dollars in some very rare instances and il deals, 256 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 2: and I feel like the numbers and such get thrown 257 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 2: around so much of it. People feel as though it's mainstream. 258 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 2: It's like, well, you know, we got to prepare not 259 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 2: only for potentially this university experience or this collegiate experience, 260 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 2: but a way to market yourself and brand. And I 261 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 2: think that that's all great, But how do you separate, 262 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 2: you know, the business from the fund, Like I guess, 263 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 2: how do you compartmentalize that? Particularly if you're a parent 264 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 2: who doesn't happen maybe you didn't play in college, maybe 265 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 2: this whole athletic thing is a whole new experience for you. 266 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 2: And I feel like for some parents that may have 267 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 2: played collegiate sports or even professional you know, they know 268 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 2: how to kind of navigate that and juggle you know, 269 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 2: the fun piece and the workpiece and all of these things. 270 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 2: But how do you separate the business which is now? 271 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 2: I mean, I mean I've talked to enough coaches they 272 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 2: say it's a business. I mean, it is a business. 273 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that, But I think we tend 274 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: to overcomplicate this a little bit because when you get 275 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: right down to it, everything is a business decision. When 276 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: you decide to go on vacation, it's a business decision. 277 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 1: What can we afford, what's the best destination for us, 278 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: where should we stay, what's the best value? Things like that, 279 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: do we drive or do we fly? You know, all 280 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: these things if you look at it that way, their 281 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: business decisions. And for any student, let alone an athlete, 282 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: for any student. It's a business decision, and it comes 283 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: down to how much scholarship money, if any can I get? 284 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: What is this going to cost? How far from home? 285 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: Will my parents be able to come see me? Things 286 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: like that, Can I get home? You know? Do I 287 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: want to stay closer to home go further away? Does 288 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: this place have the area of study? You know? How 289 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: are they ranked in that? You know? What are my 290 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: job prospects afterwards? If I go to this place for 291 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: an initial job. The truth is most of these things 292 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: don't matter as much as we tend to believe. I think, 293 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: for I know that my kids. I have two kids, 294 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: and their senior year in high school. You know, junior 295 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: and senior year was not as pleasant as mine was. 296 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: You know, when I was coming out of high school 297 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: in the early nineteen eighties, you know, the discussion among 298 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: my peers was are you going to college? It wasn't 299 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: where are you going? And now it seems like there's 300 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: so much status attached to where you go. And I 301 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: actually did this with my son. I don't know whether 302 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: it resonated with them or not, but I showed them 303 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: a list of CEOs of American companies and where they 304 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: went to college, and I said, show me the pattern. 305 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: You know, there's no pattern to this, and it's it's 306 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: not that it's not important where you go to school. 307 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: It is important, but it's not outcome determinative. You can 308 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: go anywhere and do extraordinarily well. You know, it's just 309 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: what's the right place for you. And your question earlier 310 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: about nil and the portal. Look, if somebody's making you 311 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: an offer out of high school, an NIL offer something 312 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: like that, that's fine, you can feel that offer. But 313 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: you know, if it's just about money, you take the 314 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: highest offer. If it's if it's about fit and where 315 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: you go to school and where you're going to be happy, 316 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: then maybe you're willing to take less money in order 317 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: to go to the place you want to go. So 318 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: it's a little bit of sliding scale, and that to me, 319 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: the portal is of zero consequence when you're making your decision. 320 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: You're not making your decision based upon Okay, you know, 321 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: where will I go after this? You know that that 322 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,479 Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense. The portal is of zero consequence. 323 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: When you're deciding where to go, You go somewhere with 324 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: the intention of staying, and if circumstances change, that's fine. 325 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: But the way I tell people is is, you know, 326 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: when you're coming out of high school and you're deciding 327 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: where to go to college, you know that's your decision. 328 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: Once you make that decision, you should be all in 329 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: and all in for at least that first year. At 330 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: the end of the year, then you can make a determination. 331 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: Am I happy with this? Do I want to stay? 332 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: Should I consider leave it? At the end of the year, 333 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: that's fine, And then once you make that decison, then 334 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: you need to be all in a gain, you know. 335 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: I think those are important distinctions. 336 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 2: When we come back, Jay and I discuss mental health 337 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,879 Speaker 2: awareness and the value of learning to stay present before 338 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 2: we head to break, I have a question for you. 339 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 2: Are you tired of your current sports management platform? Is 340 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 2: it just not getting the job done? 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You can be up and running on their 348 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 2: platform in three weeks or less if you sign up 349 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 2: for the Seamless Transition promotion by November fifteenth. Visit teamsnap 350 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,719 Speaker 2: dot com today to register. Offer valid only for new 351 00:17:51,760 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 2: Team Snap customers with mid to large size organizations. Welcome back. 352 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 2: Where we left off, Jay and I were about to 353 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 2: talk about the lessons he learned from Coach k and 354 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 2: what next play means to him. You mentioned the culture. 355 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 2: You know, when you're making the choice of where to 356 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 2: go to school, it's what type of environment is my 357 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 2: child or am I going to be in? And I 358 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 2: think a lot of that has to do with I'm 359 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 2: my oldest son just went to University of North Carolina 360 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 2: at Pembroke Division two school, really good, you know, top 361 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,360 Speaker 2: twenty wrestling program, and it was the perfect fit for him. 362 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 2: I mean, he had a relationship that he built with 363 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 2: the coach for years, even when he was in youth. 364 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 2: He'd go there for youth camp and of course went 365 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 2: recruiting time came. You know, the coach got on him 366 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 2: really quick and they had that rapport and we love 367 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:46,159 Speaker 2: the coach and just you could tell the effort, just 368 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 2: a great human being, and I checked all the boxes 369 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,479 Speaker 2: for him. When I went to college. I went to 370 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 2: North Carolina wesley And College, a small Division three school 371 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 2: at the time, was a you know, a national powerhouse, 372 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 2: you know, competing for national championships. And at the time 373 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 2: the coach was Mike Fox, who you know, went on 374 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 2: to coach the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill for 375 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 2: twenty two years as a retired you know, retired a 376 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 2: few years ago as a Hall of famers, kind of 377 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 2: one of the best coaches and highly regarded and ever 378 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 2: in college baseball. I had no idea at the time 379 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 2: when I was being recruited by him that that he 380 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 2: was this, you know, going to be a legend. But 381 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 2: I was fortunate to play for this guy, and I 382 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 2: have a relationship to him to this day. I'm forever 383 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 2: thankful for it. You got to play for Mike Krzyzewski, 384 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 2: coach k you know, a legend, right, a legend among legends. 385 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 2: Mount Rushmore type figures in coaching. So parents like often 386 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 2: say or adults say, well, don't go to the coach. 387 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 2: Don't let that be a major factor because coaches leave 388 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 2: programs all the time. I, for one, think that that's 389 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 2: a critical component of the environment, right the coach who's there. 390 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 2: But with that said, with coaches at times, you know, 391 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 2: going to other programs, how important is it for you 392 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 2: or do you think parents should consider that coach because 393 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 2: I think the coach relationship piece of it all is 394 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 2: one of the most key components to success. 395 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 1: Well, I tend to agree with you. I mean, when 396 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: I was coming out of high school, I made my 397 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: decision based solely upon the coach. And that may not 398 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 1: have been the right thing, it was just the right 399 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,679 Speaker 1: thing for me. And when I committed to Duke, I 400 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 1: you know, coach k didn't have the kind of success 401 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: that he had later on, and and he was actually 402 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,360 Speaker 1: on a little bit of shaky ground at the time, 403 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 1: remember that, and so but but I wanted to play 404 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: for him. That made the difference for me. But Duke 405 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: was a place I knew I could be happy with 406 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: or without basketball. It was just basketball was the most 407 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 1: important thing to me at the time. It doesn't mean 408 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: that everything else wasn't important. That was just the most 409 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: important thing. And so I think for anybody, you know, 410 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: who you play for is important, but it's different for everybody. 411 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: You know, every every person may and family may place 412 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 1: a different UH have different priorities. So you know, if 413 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,640 Speaker 1: you do go you know, say I went to Duke 414 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: because of coach K and after two years he decided 415 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: to go coach somewhere else, or he got fired or 416 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: whatever decided to leave, then I'd have to make a decision. 417 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: But I can't. I didn't feel like making my decision 418 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 1: at the time should be based on speculating out what 419 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: could happen. I wanted to be on on what I wanted. 420 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: I could always pivot if something did happen, but I 421 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 1: wanted to make the best decision for me at the time. 422 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: And so I do think it's important. And it's not 423 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 1: that you don't look at stability or say, hey, you 424 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: know this one coach that's recruited me, I like him 425 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 1: the best, but he's only got a year left on 426 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: his contract and they haven't renewed him and all that. 427 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: You know, those are those are important considerations, but uh, 428 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: there's no set rule for it, and that that's the 429 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,719 Speaker 1: that's the challenge is you have to you have to 430 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: take all these variables into account and make your best decision. 431 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: And you know I did that it happens all the time. 432 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that you can't make a mistake or 433 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: circums chances can't change. But you know, if you can play, 434 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: you're going to have options. So it's not going to 435 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: be that big of a deal. The problem is, or 436 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,479 Speaker 1: the challenges I shouldn't say problem, but you know, there 437 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 1: are a lot of parents out there that, you know, 438 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: they have a player that really wants it and wants 439 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: to be recruited and wants to play at the highest level, 440 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: and they're not getting the attention that they maybe feel 441 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: that they should be, or they're not getting recruited, and 442 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: they think, well, you know, I need to get my 443 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: son or daughter seen. And you know, I get these 444 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 1: questions all the time. And I had one parent, this 445 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: one sticks out, came up and said, you know, I 446 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: need to get my son seen. He hasn't been seen. 447 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: And I asked him where do you live and he says, well, 448 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: we live in Fairfax, Virginia. And I was like, you've 449 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: been seen. Your son's been seen at one he's been 450 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: seen here, but he's been seen. You know, if you 451 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: were in some the outer reaches of North Dakota, I 452 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: could understand. But just because your player hasn't blossomed yet 453 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that he or she's not going to. But 454 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: you have to take the circumstances as they are. Perhaps 455 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 1: division two or division three is where you start, and 456 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: there are some players that my son was one of, 457 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: really good high school player, fringe division one player, very 458 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: good Division two player. So his decision was, do I 459 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: go division two, where I can play right away and 460 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,199 Speaker 1: I'm going to play a lot, or do I go 461 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,479 Speaker 1: Division one where I may sit the bench my whole career. 462 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: And he decided he wanted to go division one. He 463 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: had a wonderful experience. But I told him, I can't 464 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: I can't tell you the right answer. You're the one 465 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: that's going to have to live with this. And if 466 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: being on the floor all the time is important to you, 467 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 1: if that's the most important thing, then you should go 468 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: division two. If you want the full experience and the 469 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: high level stuff and all that, then go division one 470 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: and work your butt off and see what happens. But 471 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: you have to prepare yourself for if this doesn't work 472 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 1: out the way you want, are you're still going to 473 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: be happy, And he was really happy. 474 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 2: I think that's such a you talked about making the 475 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 2: decision in the present, you know, and taking it. You 476 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 2: can't speculate, you know. You can prepare for the future 477 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 2: the best that you can. But we all get thrown curveballs, 478 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 2: you know, every single day. I'm a father of six. 479 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 2: I mean, God, I'm getting thrown knuckle curves and sliders 480 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 2: and damn everything I can imagine every single day, sometimes 481 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 2: minute by minute. So having a pivot as a parent 482 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,159 Speaker 2: is as you know, is just comes with the territory. 483 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 2: And you've interviewed countless amounts of high level college athletes 484 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,439 Speaker 2: and professional athletes that have been around some of the 485 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 2: best and competed against some of the best and been 486 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,679 Speaker 2: one of the best yourselves. How important is staying present? 487 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 2: How important is being in the moment? Being locked in? 488 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 2: And how do you get locked in for these big moments, 489 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 2: whether it's a big game, a Final four, March madness, 490 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 2: whatever it is, how do you as a competitor and 491 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,400 Speaker 2: is this something they should be working on, like staying 492 00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 2: present and do you think that helps performance? 493 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: Absolutely? To me, it's just sort of priorities in concentration, 494 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: and you concentrate on what you're doing at the time. 495 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: You know, I remember when I was a high school player, 496 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 1: you know, and you're a kid. You expect this kind 497 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: of thing when you're older, that you would have gone 498 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: through this. But I had a game one time and 499 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: I did not have one of my better games. And afterwards, 500 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 1: my dad said, was something bothering you? And I said, yeah, 501 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: you know, I got all this stuff going on, and 502 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: I had some tests coming up or all that, and 503 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 1: I was distracted. And that was advice my dad would 504 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: give me. He would say, it's okay for you to 505 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: throw yourself in one hundred percent to your game because 506 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: there's nothing you can do about that test while you're playing. 507 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 1: Worrying about the test while you're playing did you absolutely 508 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,640 Speaker 1: no good. You're no better student by worrying about it, 509 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 1: he said. But when the game's over, it doesn't do 510 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 1: you any good to think about the game. After it's over, 511 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: move on to the next thing, and then study for 512 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: your test and get ready and all that stuff. You know. 513 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 1: His thing was, you know, you prepare when it's time 514 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: to prepare, and you perform when it's time to perform. 515 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 1: And even even getting upset after game. If I if 516 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 1: we'd lose a game, and I'd be all fired up, 517 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: about losing. He said, what good is that doing you? 518 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: He said, you should have been this fired up when 519 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,400 Speaker 1: you're playing. He said, being upset after the game didn't 520 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: do you, and he good's over and uh and that, 521 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,679 Speaker 1: and he was really big on you know, how you 522 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: behaved after the game. You know, I think sometimes competitiveness 523 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: gets used as an excuse for bad behavior. So you 524 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: lose a game and you know you're supposed to shake 525 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: hands afterwards and be respectful of your opponent, and somebody 526 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 1: you know, acts inappropriately and says, well, you know we lost. 527 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: I'm a competitor. Well the competition's over. You know, the 528 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: game was over, so the competition's over. So your competitiveness 529 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 1: doesn't mean anything. After the game. It's time to you know, 530 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: be sportsmanlike and accept the results and act appropriately. And 531 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: he didn't accept, you know, competitiveness as an excuse behavior. 532 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 2: That's a great point. I almost feel like the best 533 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 2: competitors know how to turn that switch on and off. 534 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 2: And that's a maturity thing I know I went through 535 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 2: as a as a baseball player. It's like, I don't 536 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 2: have to demonstrate to you how upset I am. You 537 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 2: know what I mean, and make it seem like I 538 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 2: care more than I do. I never haven't really thought 539 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 2: about that in a long time. And I guess from 540 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 2: a mental health piece, this is something I've seen you 541 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 2: on your on your ex or Twitter feed. I know 542 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 2: it's called X Now you talk a lot about you know, 543 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 2: the mental health or you know, we hear that a lot. 544 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 2: You know, the NCAA talking about the importance of mental 545 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 2: healthier coaches and such talk about it. You know, here's 546 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 2: some of the most renowned athletes, Michael Phelps, Simone Biles 547 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 2: and many others, Kevin Love talking about the importance of 548 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 2: mental health and compartmentalizing that. And it's a part of 549 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 2: them working on themselves. How do you, as a as 550 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 2: a parent, or or as you know someone who's around 551 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 2: these athletes, how do you see mental health? And I 552 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,439 Speaker 2: guess coaches putting themselves or putting things in place to 553 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 2: help student athletes work on their mental health. And and 554 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 2: and I guess because coming vulnerable enough to talk about 555 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 2: things that maybe twenty five years ago you could potentially 556 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 2: be ostracized for coming out and being vulnerable and showing weakness, 557 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 2: I guess weakness is strength, right, being able to be 558 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 2: vulnerable and show those things. What are ways in which 559 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 2: you're seeing the culture shift to emphasize the positivity and 560 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 2: the strength in being aware of your mental health. 561 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really important question. I think, you know, 562 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: issues for young people of depression, anxiety, things in that 563 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: realm are more prevalent than they've ever been, and I 564 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: think it's much tougher. I believe anyway, it's much tougher 565 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: to be a young person now than it was when 566 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: when I was a young person. They have more coming 567 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: at them than we did, and more to deal with 568 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: with social media, all these things that can be good things, 569 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: but they can also be tremendous negatives if they're not 570 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: handled the right way. And I look at Maybe this 571 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 1: is overly simplistic, but I kind of look at mental 572 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: health of the same way I do with with overall health, 573 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: even physical health. That you know, if you're not feeling well, 574 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: if you've got some sort of illness, cold, whatever, and 575 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: you run down and tired and you don't feel right, 576 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: stomach hurts, headache, well, people aren't hesitant to say I 577 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: don't feel well. I need I need something here, I 578 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: need I need help. You know, I think the stigma 579 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: of issues of mental health are largely they've gone away, 580 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: but they haven't gone away completely. And I think for 581 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: young people, especially when they're dealing with with anything like that, 582 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: to be open about it and to seek help is 583 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: not a weakness, it's a strength. And I think for parents, 584 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: you know, nobody knows their kid better than a parent, 585 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,479 Speaker 1: and I think being vigilant and making sure you're staying 586 00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 1: on top of you know, is everything okay, because sometimes 587 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: you can assume that everything's okay, that your kid's got 588 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: it completely together, and then you're you're somehow surprised when 589 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: you find out it's not. Their clues and signs and 590 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: things where you can you can step in and help, 591 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: and uh, I think that's a big part of parenting, 592 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: even when they go to college. You know, we had 593 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: that experience. I know a lot of parents have, and 594 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: you know, stand on top of it as best you 595 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: can is important. And reading, you know, reading the te le's, 596 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: reading the signs that maybe only you can see, that's 597 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: that's vital. 598 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 2: I think there's there's two less things I want to 599 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 2: ask you. I'd be remiss to not say, you know, 600 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 2: you got to play for you know one of the 601 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 2: one of as I mentioned. You know, Coach K just 602 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 2: a legend. Is there a piece of advice that he 603 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 2: gave you when you were playing for me? Even even afterwards, 604 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 2: I'm sure you still have an amazing relationship with them 605 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 2: that has served you throughout life, because I often talk 606 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 2: about how important that coach relationship is, as I mentioned, 607 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 2: and is there something you extracted from playing for that 608 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 2: has served you in life? 609 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 1: The things that I learned from Coach K and that 610 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: I use daily sometimes without even realizing it, they're probably 611 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: too numerous to mention. One of the things that he 612 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: was really good at and remain so now because it 613 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: has been a forty plus year relationship that we've had 614 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: and it's evolved over the years. You know, he never 615 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: really gave me advice that told me what to do 616 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: in decisions that I made, but he was always really 617 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: good to help me ask myself the right questions so 618 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: that I made an informed, you know, the informed decision. 619 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: And usually you make an informed decision, you're going to 620 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: make the right decision, at least the right decision for you. 621 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: But you know, something that he said all the time 622 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: when I was playing was he would constantly say, next 623 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: play that whatever, just happened in that play, it's over. 624 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: Move on to the next play, positive or negative, whatever 625 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: just happened. Quit living in the past. You need to 626 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 1: move on. And that served me pretty well. I say, next, 627 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: play myself a lot in daily life. 628 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 2: And I'll follow up on that. What are things that 629 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 2: you'd recommend parents do as their kids are, you know, 630 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 2: not only going through the recruiting process, but their youth 631 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 2: and amateur sport experience. What should they be looking to 632 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 2: extract aside from the performance piece that'll serve them in life? Like, 633 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 2: how do we as parents teach our kids to extract 634 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 2: these values that we get from sport, from teamwork to 635 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 2: help serve them. 636 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: Well, I think there are a couple of things. One, 637 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: the relationship piece of participation in anything is the most 638 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: important thing that at the end of it. And it's 639 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: easy to say when you're pumping up on sixty years old. 640 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: You know, I was just at a Hall of Fame 641 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: induction for coach k and Johnny Dawkins, one of my 642 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: best friends and my teammate from college. And you know, 643 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 1: we weren't sitting around talking about games. You know, was 644 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: a relationship thing. We've been friends forever and that's what endures, 645 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: and the thing that makes it worthwhile are the people. 646 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: And so I think you want to be mindful of 647 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: that if you're playing AAU basketball and which is largely 648 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: what we're talking about here, the experience is what's the 649 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: most valuable. You know, twenty years from now, thirty years 650 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: from now, you're not gonna be talking about the second 651 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: game you play it on a Saturday in Orlando, you know, 652 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: but it's going to be the experiences you had in 653 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 1: the relationships and empathy for your teammates and your coaches, 654 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,239 Speaker 1: and the getting to know the parents. That those are 655 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,959 Speaker 1: the things that endure and make it worthwhile. And then 656 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: the last part, the last thing I'll say on this 657 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: is is I think it's important for your kids to 658 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: know that no matter what, they're gonna be fine. Whether 659 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 1: they get recruited by the place they've dreamed of or not, 660 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 1: they're gonna be fine. And you know, if you put 661 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: all your emotional eggs in that basket, you know there's 662 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: nothing but disappointment that follows that, because this stuff, whether 663 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: you go exactly where you want it or go somewhere else, uh, 664 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: your your dreams will still come true. You just might 665 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: not have dreamed it, you know that way, but uh, 666 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,879 Speaker 1: you know it may exceed your wildest dreams even though 667 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: you you don't wind up where you want it or 668 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: what you thought you wanted. This is a pretty you know, 669 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 1: for any kid, this is a this is a really 670 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,880 Speaker 1: fun ride if you allow it to be. If you 671 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,719 Speaker 1: let other people's expectations or things like that get in 672 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 1: your way, that that's that's when when problems surface. 673 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 2: J Billis, I can't thank you enough for coming on. 674 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: Man. 675 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 2: I love following you love your content. You know, besides 676 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 2: your your x feed, your Twitter feed. Where where can 677 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,439 Speaker 2: people find you if they want to? You know, just 678 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 2: just follow everything that you're putting out there. 679 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: I think I'm on Instagram, TikTok Uh, there's there's too 680 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 1: much of me out there. But yeah, that J billis 681 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: at all those things. You're the man. 682 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 2: I can't thank you enough for coming on. 683 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: Bro, appreciate you my pleasure, Dinick, thanks for having me. 684 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 2: That's es Basketball analyst Jbillis. Thanks for listening to the 685 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 2: Reform Sports podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode, we would 686 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 2: appreciate it if you took a moment to rate and 687 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,760 Speaker 2: review our podcast. As we work to grow our community 688 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,479 Speaker 2: of supporters and advocates for more reform sports content. Please 689 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 2: subscribe to our newsletter and blog at Reformsports project dot com. 690 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 2: You can also follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn.