WEBVTT - Why the UK’s Conservatives have given up on climate 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:04.840 Welcome to zero. I am Akshatrati. This week, a former 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:19.159 Conservative lambas his party. In the UK, it feels like 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:23.160 a make or break moment for net zero. The country's 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:26.640 forward thinking approach to climate change has for some years 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:29.920 now been a source of pride. The UK was the 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:33.320 first major economy to create a national climate law and 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:37.160 to make a net zero commitment. All that has helped 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:40.760 the UK cut the most emissions among the world's major economies. 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:45.440 It has also pushed other countries to move faster by 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:48.800 leading the way at global climate summits, and the UK 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:52.120 was pivotal in pushing through the twenty fifteen Paris Agreement. 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:56.360 But the current government is moving away from all of that. 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:00.680 Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has diluted key policies and backtracked 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:04.120 on green commitments. It's something I asked Chris Stark of 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:08.399 the Climate Change Committee about earlier this year. He acknowledged 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:11.920 that the consensus that has existed across all political parties 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:15.800 on climate action could finally be at a risk of crumbling. 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:20.000 It's a consensus that's been taken for granted for more 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:24.480 than a decade, and it's a bad time to lose it. 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:29.720 But Stark was likely holding back in his criticism. This week, 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:33.319 we weighed deeper into the reality of climate politics here 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:36.320 in the UK. Take a listen to what a former 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:39.720 Conservative minister who just quit the party earlier this year 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:43.800 had to tell me about his party's stance on climate and. 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:45.640 At its current states. 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:51.600 The Conservative Party is endangering people's lives, people's jobs, the 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:55.640 opportunities for communities to grow further by taking a negative 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:59.080 approach from rowing back on the energy transition. 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:02.680 That iss more. He spent fourteen years as a member 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:06.240 of Parliament for the Conservatives. He was Energy Minister in 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:10.040 twenty nineteen when then Prime Minister Theresa May signed into 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:14.000 law net zero by twenty fifty, and later he was 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:17.240 tasked by his own party to review whether net zero 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:21.280 is good for the economy or not. You can tell 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:24.800 where he landed after the Conservatives started rowing back on 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:30.120 climate he could not in good conscious stay. In January, 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:33.840 he quit the party and politics altogether. He now wants 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:38.040 to dedicate his life to getting net zero done. I 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:41.120 interviewed Chris at the Climate Impact Summit in London last week, 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:44.280 and he did not hold back on criticizing his former 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:47.880 party or the weak position that the Labor Party, which 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.200 is likely to come to power in the UK next 0:02:50.720 --> 0:03:05.919 is taking on the climate issue. Welcome to the Climate 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:09.119 Impact Summit and welcome to the Zero Podcast. Chris. 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:10.480 Thank you for having me. 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:14.800 Even before we start and get into the conversation, it's 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:18.960 worth acknowledging that you're a former historian, a former politician 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:23.240 who is now a passionate campaigner for net zero. It's 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:28.080 a conversion story that might seem unusual, but as a reporter, 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:32.400 I've seen this happen many times, most recently here in 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:35.200 the UK. Alok Sharma, who is a Secretary of State 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:39.880 after being COP twenty six president, is now a passionate 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:45.960 campaigner for climate causes. What specifically makes such a conversion 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:51.120 happen was there a moment when you realize that what 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:53.400 you were doing was not just for government but was 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:54.000 a calling. 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:58.720 I think for any sort of politician, when you start 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:03.720 off as an elected member of parliament, you're jack of 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:04.200 all trades. 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:05.800 You cover all different. 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:09.240 Sort of areas of policy, and over time, obviously some 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:12.560 individuals focus on specific areas of policy. I originally was 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:15.080 my background was trying to focus on education, and I 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:17.080 became university as Minister, and for me, that was sort of. 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:18.279 Pinnacle of what I wanted to achieve. 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:23.600 The more I sort of got to focus on science 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:26.960 and technology is also part of that role. I realized 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:32.280 a lot of people were focusing on tackling climate, focusing 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:37.400 on the energy transition, and actually the more I was 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:39.440 exposed to this, the more I sort of realized this 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:41.320 was the one thing that I wanted to focus on, 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:43.280 and that was the sort of initial challenge I think 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:45.920 where I knew I was eventually move away from politics. 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:47.919 I didn't want to be that sort of politician that 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:51.080 tried to cover everything anymore. I just wanted to focus 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:53.520 on one thing. When I signed that zera into law 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:55.960 was coming up for five years, I genuinely didn't know 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:59.039 at the time that moment would sort of trigger a 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:01.919 domino effect other countries. And I think what we've seen 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:06.560 now policy catching up with the economics of the transition, 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:10.839 that you are seeing a rapid decline a neural and gas, 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:12.920 but the narrative, so this comes back to sort of 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:17.080 the historian in me hasn't called up politicians and populism 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:19.400 is still sort of focusing on trying to preserve the past. 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:23.440 When this is a transition very similar to electricity to 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:26.640 the petrol car. It's going to happen, and for me, 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:30.520 trying to articulate that has now become my passion and calls. 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:33.719 But I knew when I did the net zero review 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:35.440 and I sort of then began to focus down on 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:37.560 net zero, I would probably have this sort of Thomas 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:40.200 Moore moment where eventually I would have to be looking 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:43.520 at myself in the mirror and saying, well, can I 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:46.839 do what politicians do day and day out, which is cool, 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:51.279 black is white, and defend my government against all the 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:54.560 evidence for delivering that zero. And I reached the sort 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.560 of crossroads where I had to go because I realized 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:01.479 that my priorities and everything I was focusing on now 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:04.080 told me that new or and gas licenses were the 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:04.760 wrong thing to do. 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:08.359 So, as a historian, need to say, you care a 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:12.560 lot about the narratives at this political moment. It seems 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:17.240 like the story that both conservatives and labor are campaigning 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:19.960 on is that we are going too fast on net zero. 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.360 But that's not what the science says, that's not what 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:24.080 you believe. 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:26.200 So what do you. 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:29.440 Think is a winning strategy to change that? Narrative. 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:32.680 So we I think this false narrative that somehow there's 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:34.840 going to be a more proportionate version of net zero. 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.040 When I signed that zero into law, I was really 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:39.760 conscious that I was meeting with climate groups of saying 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.760 net zero isn't going far enough. And this was very 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:44.960 much a middle way of via media saying, look, we 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:48.520 could still grow the economy and decarbonize at the same time, 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:51.920 recognizing that there would be sort of new technological advances 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:53.600 eventually coming on stream, but this is what we need 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:55.800 to do now, and then obviously is what we need 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.880 to buy twenty thirty. So this whole idea of net 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:02.760 zero being somehow, or the calls of eco zalots, it's 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:04.440 sort of completely false. 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:05.000 I think. 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:08.159 However, there is this challenge now, how do you look 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:11.360 at the vested interests of those that are trying to 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:14.239 maintain the status quo when the status co can't hold 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:16.360 Actually looking at oil and gas, it's not just an 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:19.960 environmental issue, it's an economic one. It's simply uneconomic to 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:22.600 invest in oil and gas that it would only come 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:25.280 on stream by twenty forty when the demand for aill 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:27.120 and gas is dropping by about forty percent. And we 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:29.480 need to drop by sixty five percent. So for me, 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:34.760 it's basing the argument in the facts and that might 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:37.600 seem cold, and it's not meant to be unemotional, But 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:39.440 what I don't want to do is see the climate 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:42.239 movement sort of you somehow fall into an elephant trap 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:45.320 of being sort of led by climate delayers who are 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:48.760 now were the climate delaiyers, into being seen unreasonable. 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:50.600 We've got to keep our heads at the same time. 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:52.920 I know it's really frustrating, but how do you have 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.840 that ability to prove that they're the extremists. 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:57.720 They are the Zalots, not you. 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:02.960 Well, emotions do take a hold of the narrative. We've 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:07.360 seen here in the UK that the government has been 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:11.720 pushing a strategy specifically tied to one election that happened 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:16.840 in London, around pushing against a policy that was supposed 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:19.840 to try and reduce the number of polluting cars. And 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.560 they thought it's a winning strategy, and so they used 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:25.560 what they thought was both an emotionally winning strategy but 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:29.640 also a vote winning strategy and then applied it nationally. 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:33.320 Now we've just recently concluded local elections here in the UK, 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:38.200 and that seems to have backfired. Conservatives did quite poorly. 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:42.880 In fact, Liberal Democrats now have more council seats than 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:47.240 the Conservatives too, and of course Laborer is at the 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:51.360 top of that chart. So is the Conservative Party wrong 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:54.520 to think that voters want to push against screen policies? 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:57.480 So just to say to start with this is not 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:01.640 the reason etra for our thanking, for why we need 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:05.760 to do net zero. I recognize it as being important 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:09.000 in its own right, but politically, I said at the 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:12.040 time when Rushie selected this rowback that this was going 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:14.160 to be the worst mistake of his premiership. 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:15.960 Now why is that the case. 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:19.040 It's because there are conservatives like me across the country 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:23.719 who believed that being a conservative also meant that you 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:28.000 believed in conservation and demonstrating how you were going to 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:32.079 ensure the best in the country was preserved at the 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:37.079 same time as managing change appropriately. And now throwing all 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:40.800 that away, he's seen conservatives like myself. You know, I've 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.319 now become independent. I resigned the Conservative whip. I've left 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:44.800 the Conservative Party now. 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:45.920 Have walked away. 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:50.079 And that's been replicated hundreds of thousands of times, if 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:53.120 not millions of times, by individuals across the country who've 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:55.280 now thought, well, what does the Conservative Party stand for? 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:56.840 And is not what I stand for? 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.520 And having this sort of future facing vision of where 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:03.160 the country's going rather than looking backwards and trying to 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:06.800 maintain the past, I think for me has been disastrous. 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:09.200 We've seen that in the local elections, not just obviously, 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:12.000 and everyone focused on Reform and it's a fault of 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:15.200 the media, not yourself, but obviously why was Nigel Frage 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:17.480 and Richard Tice ever given a platform on Question Time 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:21.080 when effectively Reform UK is a private company, not a 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:24.600 political party. And they've only won two council seats at 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.839 the local elections. The Greens actually gained one hundred and 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:30.440 fifty seats, one hundred and fifty six seats, sixty seven 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:33.840 percent increase, the largest increase of any political party. And 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:38.760 so actually we've seen a coalition now of those parties 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:44.320 that are looking to promote environment and climate succeed and 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:47.240 also in the mayoralties as well. The one Conservative that 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:50.440 won was Ben Houchin, who proudly and published a net 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.559 zero strategy for tea side that set out and I 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:55.600 would encourage anyone to read that strategy is a great 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.200 document that net zero is not about what we have 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.120 to lose, but what we have to gain, and framing 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:03.400 net zero is that opportunity was what the net zero. 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:04.480 Review was about. 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.760 Yes, obviously absolutely vital that we tackle the climate crisis, 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:09.920 but this is a moment in time that won't come again. 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:11.080 We're in a net zero race. 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:13.559 You know, if the United States has taken forward the 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:17.000 Inflation Reduction Act, the UK will fall further behind having 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.760 been a climate leader if we do not continue to 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:22.240 take action. And what we've seen with the Energy Secretary 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:24.760 Flerkatino is to sort of rest on the laurels and say, well, 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.760 you know, if the carbonized by fifty percent China is 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:30.320 so bigre only one percent, that sort of narrative that 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:33.440 defeat this narrative that suggests that the UK can't be 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:35.320 an example for the rest of the world to follow. 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.640 And for myself, you know, it's absolutely critical that we 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:42.920 all work together, cross party, put together this local Climate Pledge. 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:45.480 We've got about a one hundred council leaders to sign 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:48.679 ahead of the local elections, including Andy Burnham, including Tracy Braben, 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:52.319 to commit to working together. Because I know it's difficult 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:55.640 sometimes everyone has their own political allegiances, but carbon DIYX 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:58.840 said knows no political parties or no country borders, so 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:01.960 we just have to work together. And this is where 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:05.880 this politicization of net zero has been so tragic, and 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:08.920 it will cost the Conservatives even more votes at the 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:11.560 next general election. It's probably too late now to change 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:14.960 the course that Richie Senaka set himself, but people historians 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:17.920 will look back at this moment and recognize this was 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:21.240 the moment that the Conservative Party lost the country because 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:23.600 it no longer spoke to the country about what its 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:24.920 future was going. 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:25.240 To look like. 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.480 Well, the next general election could be happening in months 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:32.000 time if you believe some or before the end of 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:35.360 the year. Now you were a member of Parliament for 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:40.320 other Conservatives till January you've quit. Would it be fair 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:44.960 to say that, given your context for where the Conservatives 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:50.640 stand on climate today, that if people believe in climate change, 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:53.280 they shouldn't vote for the Conservatives. 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:54.920 I think that's right. 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:58.319 It's difficult to say that because there's lots of colleagues 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:00.960 who are friends. I've worked a large part of my 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.080 career for the Conservative Party. But in its current state, 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:10.400 the Conservative Party is endangering people's lives people's jobs, the 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:14.439 opportunities for communities to grow further by taking a negative 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:17.400 approach and rowing back on the energy transition. 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:19.559 And we can see that recent. 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:23.040 Report published by UK SIFTS demonstrated the sixty three percent 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:27.720 of companies are seeking potentially to relocate jobs in investment elsewhere. 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.480 And I wanted that investment to come to the UK, 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:34.040 to demonstrate that this is an opportunity that will only 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:37.120 come once in a generation. But what I'm not going 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:38.400 to do is say to anyone that this is the 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:40.640 particular party you know you should vote for. I mean, 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.360 Keir Starmer has these sort of mission based approaches times 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.600 very closely to my own Mission zero report, that long 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:49.680 term certainty and clarity you can have by having stable 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:54.200 policy frameworks. But I would say to anyone who's thinking 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:56.160 about you know how to cast their votes. You know, 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.400 look at the candidates sort of record locally, look at 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:02.080 obviously the cup of the seat. You will have this 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:05.679 moment in time, and it's so important I think personally, 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:08.320 it's to look at if the UK is going to 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:11.560 meet it's national determined contribution sixty eight percent emissions reduction, 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:16.000 whoever forms the government will be the stewards of that NDC. 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:20.520 If the UK fails to meet that NDC, it's one 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.360 of the most ambitious obviously globally. Then what's to say 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:26.080 any other country will want to meet their own national 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:28.640 determined contributions they promises they made to the UN. So 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:30.960 for me, this is not just about thinking about the 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:33.360 political party that's going to form a government. This is 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:36.440 actually about picking a government that's going to be the 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:39.800 stewards of a really important policy framework that then the 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:41.440 rest of the will be watching and waiting to see 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:42.240 whether we succeed. 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:45.280 So, if the polls are to be believed, Labor is 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:48.000 likely to come into power here in the UK, and 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:53.400 especially on climate Given how the Conservatives are playing the cards, 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.280 it should all be a cakewalk for Labor. Do come 0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:59.840 up with a plan that already exists that the Climate 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:04.400 Rae Committee has developed, back it and make it work. 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:09.160 But the opposite seems to be happening. They are backtracking 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:14.000 on their own previous commitments made in the opposition. But 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:18.400 climate action is still popular with voters. So why is 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:21.600 it that both the major parties in the UK are 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:22.400 acting this way? 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:26.280 I remember Tony Blair once said that Labour's best when 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:28.720 it's boldest, and it's the case if you look at 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:33.920 Sidi Khan's commitment to maintaining the expansion of ulets that 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:37.120 he set himself a course. He put a lot of 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:39.880 political capital on the line and he's stuck with it, 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.120 knowing that there was this one moment in time when 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:44.560 this by election happened in for the UK. For those 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:47.360 who are familiar the Oxbridge by election, Boris Johnson resigned 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:50.560 his seat behame available, the Conservatives held onto it by a whisker. 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:52.080 If it was went four hundred and twenty five votes 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:55.000 the other way, we wouldn't have been having this conversation. Actually, 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:57.480 my resignation from Parliament was sparked also partly by trying 0:15:57.480 --> 0:15:59.760 to course correct, to say, well, you know, it calls 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:01.800 one election, calls another by election, and then he lost 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:02.880 that to labor. 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:07.320 For listeners who don't live in the UK, here's a 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:11.480 little bit of background on that pivotal Uxbridge election and 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:15.640 the role climate policies played. As Chris said, the election 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:19.000 was set off by former Prime Minister Boris Johnson resigning 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:24.680 from Parliament last June. Steve Tucker, the Conservative Party candidate 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:28.600 vying for Boris's old seat in Uxbridge, ran a campaign 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:32.080 that was heavily critical of one of London Mayor Sadi 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:37.800 Khan's key environmental policies. Ules or the Ultra Low Emission 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:41.520 Zone scheme requires owners of cars that don't meet certain 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:44.760 emission standards to pay a hefty fee for its use. 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:48.400 It was introduced by Boris Johnson when he was Mayor 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:51.720 of London back in twenty fifteen. At that time it 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:55.640 only applied to central London, but under Sadi Khan its 0:16:55.640 --> 0:17:00.920 scope was expanded. Over the years, the zone has cut 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:03.760 air pollution and raised millions of pounds for the city 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.920 from the fees. Ducker for the Conservatives argued it put 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.920 a too heavy burden on regular commuters. In the end, 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:14.280 the Conservatives narrowly held onto the seat and the party 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:18.000 thought doubling down on anti green policies could be a 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:22.960 winning strategy in local elections around the country. That backfired. 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:26.840 U Les remains in place and Chris says it's in 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:29.760 fact exactly the sort of bold policy we need for 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:30.480 the climate fight. 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.920 The challenge is is how to maintain that sense of boldness, 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:39.639 that sense of purpose, because there will always be a 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:42.800 reaction to every action taken, there will always be vested interests. 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:46.639 The role of politics and leadership is to demonstrate that 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:48.760 you're going to stay the course. You're going to set 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:50.720 out a vision and you're going to take people with you. 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.359 And the narrative focus that you need is almost like 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:55.600 polishing a pebble. It doesn't happen overnight. You know, you 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:58.960 need to work and crafted it, come back and address 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.439 faults and mistakes along the line, knowing that those are 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.400 going to be made. And I think that both political 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:08.160 parties are guilty of having that lack of purpose and boldness. 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:10.040 I wouldn't say that's the case with their millibant. He 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:13.400 is absolutely committed and demonstrating. But we're in a new 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:17.400 age now where social media creates these funnel mechanisms. GB 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:19.480 News is not the rest of the country and they 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:23.400 we shouldn't cow taw to their anti climate messaging because 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:26.680 the rest of the country, a silent majority, wants climate action. 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:29.480 See they are concerned about what that looks like and 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:31.240 who will pay for it, and it's an important question 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.159 about understanding how to bring investment in, which is why 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:36.320 I'm so passionate about trying to promote the UK because 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:38.840 it's not necessarily the tax pays paying for all of this, 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:42.200 but nevertheless set out a vision and stay the. 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:48.879 Course coming up. Chris responds to the current energy secretaries 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:52.480 claim that net zero has become a crushing leviathan of 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.879 central planning. And by the way, if you're enjoying this episode, 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:58.240 please take a moment to rate and review the show 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:09.359 on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Now, the UK Government and 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:13.480 the UK political parties will do their thing, but the 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:17.040 UK Government isn't just the political parties, it's also the 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:20.239 machinery behind it. And there has been a lot of 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:23.240 green hushing going on. So the UK Government is going 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:25.800 ahead with some of the policies that it's set out. 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:30.640 It doesn't want to advertise them as the Conservative Party. 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:33.040 But let's come to the specifics. A key thing you 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:36.119 did in your time in office is the net zero Review. 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:39.240 This is a report that was commissioned by Liz Truss, 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:41.639 who was Prime Minister for less than two months in 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:45.720 late twenty twenty two. You spent more time being on 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:48.280 the road for the review than she spent in Number ten. 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:52.800 By the time the document was published, she Sunak was 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:55.560 the Prime Minister, and you said you had one hundred 0:19:55.600 --> 0:20:00.359 and twenty five policy recommendations in the final report, most 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:04.040 of which you say were accepted by the government. Can 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:07.119 you give a specific examples of the ones that you 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:09.840 are most proud of that the government has deployed. 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:11.679 Yeah, so, yeah, you're absolutely right. 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:14.080 There is the sort of green hushing going on because 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:17.240 of the departments and the individual civil servants to work 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:19.760 in them are truly committed to the transition. And I 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:22.000 had some of those fantastic individuals working on the net 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:25.919 zero review, and I think the UK is really blessed 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:28.360 in that regard in having that sort of policy expertise, 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:30.040 which why I still say we're a climate leader when 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:32.840 we look at the civil society movements, our universities, our 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:36.480 departments that are working on the transition. In terms of 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:40.080 some of those policy recommendations, the government accepter have about 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:42.040 a hundred. There are some that I wish they would 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:43.919 still accept that it hasn't gone across the line. A 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:47.680 net zero investment roadmap that would identify all these opportunities 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:49.919 and set out what needs to be done effectively, an 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:52.080 Office for net Zero, Office for Net zero Delivery. The 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:55.240 Australia is doing to bring all these departments together, but 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:58.280 of the ones that they did accept the recommendations, I 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:00.919 think some of the ones I'm proudest of all, including 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:03.200 net zero duty for off GEM, I think is absolutely 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:05.920 vital if we're going to move beyond what sort of 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:08.639 consumer price duty, the off GYM had to actually identify 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:11.639 where is a coordinating function in the market going to 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:15.080 take place. One that I was really sort of happy 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:16.960 that it was accepted. I wouldn't sure it was going 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:19.640 to be accepted was the rebalancing of gas electricity prices 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:22.560 that the government's now committed to taking this forwards just 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:25.119 fundamentally if we don't get this right, and we should 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:27.080 have done it sooner. Actually while the gas price was 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:30.640 still sort of artificially sort of high, we're not going 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:32.600 to be able to embed the transition at a household 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:36.520 level with the heat pumps and other forms of electricity 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:40.400 like solar panels, So that for me was a real win. 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:45.480 A little more on two of those policies. Off GEM 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:49.120 is the UK's office for gas and electricity markets, and 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:52.159 as of last June, of GEM was legally required to 0:21:52.160 --> 0:21:56.520