WEBVTT - Bank of America CEO Brian Moynihan Talks Credit Card Cap 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:07.080 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.400 This is my message to the Financial Time. So you 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:12.080 put out an article about the White House snubbing Brian moynihan. 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:14.520 If they've seen the embrace between Brian and the COMMAS 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:16.200 secretary just moments ago, and I think they would have 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:17.239 written the article, would they? 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:19.360 You know, they were talking about saw you last night. 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:20.080 It was great. 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:23.040 How were exactly exactly what they. 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:24.919 Had to shut down a studio from m It wasn't. 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:28.480 Yeah, they needed to reconcile or discuss all of their previous, 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:29.800 you know, experiences together. 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:30.639 But they're all positive. 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:31.880 Let's stick with the economy. 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:34.000 Positive outlet joining us now is the Bank of America 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:36.159 Chairman and see from moynihan, Brian, good to see. 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:38.479 You, Good to see Howard and I were on a 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:40.800 panel yesterday and then yesterday. 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:43.080 Yeah, they made a day before yesterday, the lunch to. 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:45.640 Day and actually we're going to do another public venue 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:47.400 where we're talking about how you raise the money to 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:50.360 do all this investment he was talking about, so he's 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:54.560 he's bullish on America and he watched part of the interview. 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:55.760 Sounds like I said that. 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.800 You guys are tea Yes, so let's stop the GDP forecast. 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:02.640 So our research see that our research turn is one 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:04.520 of the best in the world, led by a woman 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:06.720 named Cannis Browning Platt, and they all come out and 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:10.640 they raised their GDP for US to two point eight 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:14.039 percent growth for the twenty six right before we came 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:16.280 to Davos, the world about three and a half they 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:19.320 raised a point one. And the important things I think 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:21.280 to think about the US as you think about the 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:23.759 travel last time from the last time you're here, last 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:25.680 time we're here, we probably had two and a half 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:29.520 percent four twenty six. Then Liberation Day it drops all 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:31.520 the way to one and a half. And then as 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:34.160 a settling in of there's the four primary policies of 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:40.640 the Trump administration, trade and tariff, tax, immigration and deregulation 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:42.959 starts settling in. We've raised it back to two six 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:46.640 and out two point eight, and so that's spolish. And 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:49.280 then underneath it we see what the consumer really does. 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:51.840 And if we could talk about that, you know, the 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:53.840 consumer spending was strong in the fourth quarter. When I've 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:55.640 talked about that, it's four and a half trillion dollars 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:58.360 our seventy million consumers which were blessed to have put 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:01.560 into the economy a year for the fourth quarter that 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:04.040 grew about five percent of the twenty four's fourth quarter 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:06.520 in so far in January, it's growing a little faster that. 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:08.120 Now you've got to be careful about two weeks don't 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:09.640 make a quarter. But let's staying up. 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:10.080 They're strong. 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:12.040 Well, let's pair that GDP forecast with the bank and 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:14.600 the business lines. Then what position are you in to 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:16.840 take advantage of that better growth story in America? 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:18.200 And what are you expected to show up? 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:18.600 Well? 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.240 Because who you are, and you know, we've been part 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:23.960 owners of this company a long long time ago, and 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:26.000 Mike's fuien a good thing around the market's business. That's 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:28.440 which you're always interested even though there's all this other stuff. 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:29.000 That makes a lot of money. 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:31.880 But look, if you look at Jim DeMar's now co 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:35.639 Prasident the company, but his team and markets this year 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:38.079 had their last quarter, had their fifteenth consecutive quarter of 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:40.240 year over year growth, and they just keep walking up 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:42.520 ten percent up for the fourth quarter. If you look 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:45.760 at investment banking, which is kind of interesting. So Matthew 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:48.320 Coder a team, you know, early in December we thought 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:49.520 we were about a billion and a half, and I 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:51.400 went out at a conference and told people that in 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:54.560 lo and Behore we ended a billion six five and 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:58.359 that made twenty twenty five's the second best year of 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:02.359 investment banking fees in our company his history in the 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:04.200 only other one that was pandemic when everybody did a 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:06.040 lot of financing. And next year we think we're bullish 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:08.320 because the pipelines are full, and the broadening out of 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:11.200 the revenue stream into the IPO markets and other things 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:13.480 which are got to started a little bit this year 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:15.800 but have been pretty depressed for a while, so that's 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:17.840 coming in and deals, you know, just the deal flow. 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:21.120 People can get deals done. When I was here a 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:23.920 couple of davas ago, you know, the regulatory burdens were 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:26.280 getting so high that you couldn't honestly tell a client 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:28.040 who's trying to do a five billion dollar deal to 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:30.480 do it, because you said, if you can to stabilize 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:32.880 your company for six months a year trying to get 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:35.200 this through and you don't get it through, is that 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:37.560 worth it? And that's sort off the table, and even 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:39.760 our industry, even though we can't do anything six months, 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:41.840 approval of timelines are back to where they should be. 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:44.200 It seems like there is an incredible amount of polishness 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:47.640 here at Davos about deals, about IPOs, about all sorts 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:51.800 of transactions and some of the issuances of debt inequity. 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:54.880 At the same time, there's a real concern about affordability. 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:57.680 There's a concern about how well the consumer is going 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:00.440 to be able to face off with inflation. I'm just 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:02.040 wondering if this is the year that we see the 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:04.440 two come together, because last year they didn't come together. 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:07.200 We saw the same kind of joblessness in terms of 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:09.320 the growth, and we saw the same kind of lack 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:11.160 of enthusiasm and sentiment surveys. 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:13.800 Yeah, so if you look through the if you think 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:16.280 about last year and think about how bullish people were 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:18.720 last year because about the United States and the change 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.640 of regatory regime and things like that. You know, in 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:23.480 April things change and then by the end of the 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:25.800 year it changed back, and so I think that had 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:26.800 a lot to do with it. If you look at 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:29.839 the consumer and what we see that spending level is 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:34.400 not consistent with people who feel they're threatened in the future, 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:37.640 and they're spending on all kinds of things now. If 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.200 you look at the research team the Bank of America Institute, 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:42.040 if you look at the work they've done. If you 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:46.000 put three groups of customers lower income, third middle and 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:48.120 come third, upper and come third, they're all growing at 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:50.800 the middle and upper growing a faster rate. And frankly, 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:52.680 that drives a lot of the growth. But if you 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:54.680 look at whateverybody's spending on. They're spending on going out, 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:57.919 they're spending on booking vacations, are spending on essential So 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:01.600 what's the affordability? It's the inflation that people remember, and 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:03.360 that is going to take a while for people to 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:05.280 kind of put in the rearview mirror, because people can 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:07.080 remember it's not too hard to remember. 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:10.400 Five pre COVID where X was cost you, you. 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.000 Know, to mail customers a gata gas cost you that 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:16.279 your rent was this. And with that explosion and prices 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:19.640 wages also went up. But the consumer thinks more about 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:21.880 the price side and then the question of we'll turn 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:24.039 over and get back and sink. And that's what's in 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:26.240 those surveys. But if you watch your activity, and I'm 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:28.960 a big believer, they'll tell you one thing, watch what 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:30.719 they do, and that's what they're doing as of last 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.360 Friday in the consumer base across seventy million people, which 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:34.360 is a pretty good sample size. 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:35.080 They're spending a lot. 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:36.520 Maybe they would spend even more if there was a 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:38.600 ten percent cap on credit card rates. I mean, look, 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.279 this proposal got a lot of attention about a week ago, 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:43.520 it feels like three years ago, and people push back 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:45.720 and said it wasn't realistic, it wasn't feasible. We had 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:48.840 Jimmie Diven come out and discuss about how try it 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:49.719 and see what happens. 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:50.600 What's your take on that? 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:55.160 How realistic are you seeing those proposals as being So if. 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:57.640 You step back, you know we're all for affordability and 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:00.719 financial products. So you got the fault over the years 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:03.320 of what we did on overdraft fees taking down by 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:05.479 ninety percent over a course of fifteen years, what we 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:07.680 did on having a five hundred dollars loan account of 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:10.080 five dollars no interst rate, you could borrow emergency loan 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.080 of five hundred dollars. Eight million customers have used that 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:14.800 over the last several years to give you a cent. 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:18.039 So and then we have no fraals, credit card, no rewards, 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:20.880 and other stuff that people might attribute that is lower rate, 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:22.120 It's not all the way down at that rate. 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:23.520 So I think the question is, can we. 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:27.520 Figure out a solution where you can avoid the equal 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:28.279 opposite reaction? 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:30.719 As our friend. 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:32.960 Lafayette said the Hamilton song, you know, every action has 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:35.520 an econopics reaction, So the equal opposite reaction we all 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:37.880 talked about last week. If you actually make this a policy, 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:41.040 it can reallocate credit. That will slow down spending. It 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:43.320 will slow down credit availability, and that might not be 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:45.120 what you're trying to achieve. So can you do something 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:47.839 on a go forward basis on the limited things and 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:50.200 even one year if you had go reshuffle the whole deck, 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:52.920 that would be pretty pretty interesting and to cause a 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:55.880 lot of change in people's views of what they have. 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:56.760 Available for credit. 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:58.400 You want people to have available for credit because that 0:06:58.400 --> 0:06:59.520 gives them the courage to spend. 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:02.200 So we're trying to figure out we're all. 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:04.360 Working trying to figure out, okay, given the affordability, given 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:06.080 the thought process, is a way that we can do 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.400 something that might help without having an equal and opposite reaction, 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:12.360 because that would not be good. Our point is to 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.240 get the credit losses down to the point you could 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.440 afford that rate. You actually can never have a charge 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:19.440 off and you start to think about who can get credit. 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:21.280 That's thing. So we're working hard. 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:22.880 We're trying to cope with solutions like we are on 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:24.960 some of the fore the profoles around mortgage and for 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:27.360 one K usage and trying to think of how you 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:32.320 maybe can move the transfer wealth faster by giving people 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:34.640 in my age bracket the ability to move a forum 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:36.560 and K balance to pay help their kid buy a 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:37.520 house or something like that. 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.400 We threw that out to Howard yesterday. 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:42.800 There's these ideas of letting people use their own form 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:45.880 and K with less they can borrow from today. But 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:47.680 there's a way you can actually just take a draw 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:50.200 so they don't have the added depth burden. And then 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:52.000 you've got to work on the supply side of housing. 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:54.400 And you know, the President was interesting, Yes, you sense 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:56.200 it to the issue. If you bring down house prices 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:58.360 to make it affordable, is that the right answer for everybody? 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:01.680 But on the other hand, have the kind of over 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:03.720 demanded some of the cities who work in thirty thousand 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:07.520 units in Charlotte twenty thousand, Boston with thirty forty thousand, 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:10.080 one hundred thousand whatever in New York, you could build 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:11.640 a lot before. I think you have a major impact 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:12.920 on the downward trend of prices. 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:16.960 Well, the DJT imposed deadline of January twenty has come 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:18.720 and gone for the credit card caps. Have you spoken 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:21.400 to the administration about this issue and talk to them 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:25.960 about the potential counterintuitive problem with a ten percent cap? 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:29.640 The team and I talked to administration all the time 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:32.880 about these policies and stuff, and they listen and they're 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:34.920 trying to figure out the same issue from their side, 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:37.880 how can they make America more affordable? And I think 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:39.880 the number one thing we can do to make America 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:43.319 more affordable is keep everybody employed. And Ernie's growth in 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:47.240 our in our client base across seventy million people, we 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:48.840 see a lot of paychecks come in and that's growing 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:52.120 at three percent four percent, and that's a good number. 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:58.079 And so know that wage growth continuity will ultimately make 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.520 people feel different about it, letely understandable why they feel 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:03.520 the sort of unem as of how these things came 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:05.520 into their household, and then what they want to do 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.040 about it. And then rent affordability. We've given them the 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:09.280 types of ideas I talked about. 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:11.120 We need to see some bit of hiring as well. 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:14.360 Can we talk about hiring the AI story. It's difficult 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:16.599 to understand what's happened with hiring in this country in 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:19.480 America over the last twelve months. What do you think 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:21.920 has happened? What's your understanding of this drop off in hiring. 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:23.760 Is it a supply side story? What do you think 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:24.080 it is? 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:28.760 I think I think there's a concern of availability at 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:32.280 labor because of the population growth, immigration dynamics that I 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:34.280 think again, the administration is trying to get. 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:36.880 Much more fine around exactly what they're. 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:40.520 Doing and not threatening people who've been in naturalized citizens 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:41.920 and things like that, and that was never what they're 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:44.640 intended to do, but people started reading it, so I think, 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:46.720 And now if you've looked at our small business surveys, 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:50.000 labor availability became an issue again and hadn't been for 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:52.880 a good while. And so so I think that that's 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:55.600 something we've advised administration sho be mindful of because you 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:57.560 don't want that to become a constraint on people's views 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:01.520 of growing. Now, the big hiring story here we're Davos 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:03.160 that make you saying this year is about AI. Last 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:04.840 year is about AI. The year form was out AA. 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:08.720 The form is out in twenty nineteen. The premise was 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:11.400 the Fourth Industrial Revolution, which was AI without just saying it. 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:12.640 And so it's not a new theme. 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:15.720 And so I give you since the first time you 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:18.600 probably asked somebody who decided to pandemic, say post pandemic 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:21.680 about is AI going to cause you to change your 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:25.360 hiring Let's call it four years, it's called three years. 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:27.239 We hired sixty five. 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:30.800 Thousand people Bank of America, two thousand year kids out 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:33.440 of school plus Saudi in school every year now and 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:35.200 that's for the turn of rate eight percent we got 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:37.640 to hire. In the month of January, we'll hire like 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:39.600 thirteen hundred people and will have the same head count 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:42.040 we had the month of December. Are these people doing 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:45.240 exactly what the people left? Sometimes sometimes those jobs got limited. 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:48.040 But that's what management is challenged, is how do you 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:50.760 think to make the changes. We've got to make the 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:55.440 transformations to make the customer experience the best it can be, 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:58.400 to grow the company and to manage expense. And that 0:10:58.440 --> 0:10:59.960 means you have to really pay attention to the head 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:02.360 account movement. And that's why we watch it carefully. 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:03.480 That's why the tension is though. 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:04.840 I think for a lot of people, you've got the 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:06.920 societal problem on the one hand, and on the other hand, 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:09.640 you've got the opportunity. And the opportunity is to do 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:12.560 even more with what you've already got. And that's the 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:14.920 productivity story, and that's what you're selling to invest is 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:16.360 that's the picture of the moment, isn't it. 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:19.240 So we had twenty eighty five thousand people in twenty 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:21.520 ten when I took when the team took over, we 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:24.120 have two hundred twelve thousand people today. And you never 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:27.959 heard anything about labor dislocation because we just kept planning ahead. 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:30.400 But that's the application of technology. Just take the consumer 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:33.120 business and I showed an investor date one hundred thousand 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:35.240 people to fifty and make it simple. If you look 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:37.800 at that, the business is three times as big in 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:41.040 terms of transactions activity. But that's the power of all 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.520 You've got eight devices sitting on the tables in front of. 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:46.440 You and the interact activity of what you'll do two. 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:49.640 It's a combination of AI plus alerts and things like that. 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:51.840 People that get focused on just you know, erica growth. 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:54.520 In our case, you say no, there's literally a billion 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:57.400 alerts that go out, which is basically artificial intelligence people 0:11:57.400 --> 0:11:59.040 set up in advance to tell them things go on. 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:00.880 You don't need them to go. And Eric could ask 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:03.000 if this, if a check went through. 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:04.600 My account above twenty five hundred dollars, if you set 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:05.720 the alerts, you said. 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.080 Something that we reflect on a lot on our show. 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:10.040 You said a lot of things, but one thing in particular, 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.440 that the business would grow, but that your staff would 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:15.320 stay about the same size. And you said that about 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:18.000 a year ago, maybe two years ago. That's a near 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:21.880 term phenomenon. In five to ten years, will it be 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:24.680 the same or will it start to change in terms 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:26.400 of actual shrinkage. 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:30.079 Well, if Havard's writers, if view of growth, will need 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:32.000 a lot more human content to keep up with it. 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:35.040 And I'll give you this. I'll give you the historical context. 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:38.040 In twenty nineteen, I was in a room downstairs and 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:40.480 the people were bringing their hands and as. 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:40.920 The way they do it. 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:43.959 Davos said, all this technology going to take away the jobs. 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:46.240 And so in preparation, I said, I've got to give 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:47.840 some hope here. So I went and did the research. 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:50.840 In nineteen sixty nine, American employed eighty million people in 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:53.840 twenty nineteen eployed one hundred and sixty million people. I 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:55.800 think there was a lot of technology and change. It 0:12:55.840 --> 0:13:00.280 came from nineteen sixty nine to twenty nineteen. Under that 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:02.080 stuff in front of you was available, you wouldn't have 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:04.200 a computer at work, you wouldn't have an email accounts. 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:06.560 You're still getting charged by the minute for phone calls. 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:09.640 And think about that change, and think about we absorbed 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:12.800 eighty million more people working. So I don't want to 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:14.559 be Pollyanna about it, but I think you have to 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:16.760 be optimistic that if we can grow the economy and 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:19.040 grow the thing, we will absorb. And by the way, 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:23.960 the population to grow US is very modest without immigration, 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:26.880 and there's a natural two plus percent of the people 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:28.920 or whatever it is die every year. It's morbid, but 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:31.520 that's what happens, and so and so you have burst 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:34.319 that kind of replace it, and you know, and people retire, 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:37.280 and so that's why I think management's core challenges and 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:39.880 manage us through and get employees to take the spirit 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:41.720 and help drive the growth in the company and be 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.079 a part of the solution and help us make it happen. 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:46.679 And my guess is, yeah, it might incrementally move headcount, 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:49.080 but if we manage it to attrition and retirements and stuff, 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:50.680 we ought to be able to manage the outcome. 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:52.240 How did we ever live without the bloombog sound? 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:53.160 What was that? 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:53.760 Have a like count? 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:54.760 I don't think I did. 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:57.600 We'ren just the final question. Yes, you mentioned how it. 0:13:58.080 --> 0:13:59.559 We tolked about it, we jogged about it. That'stile that 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:01.400 the COMA saying the relationship with the White House, how 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:03.040 would you characterize it in your own opinion? 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:03.520 Right now? 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:06.040 Oh, look, I got you always want to get invitation. 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:08.240 This is dabas a place invitation, So we invite you 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:12.160 guys someplace you want that invitation. So the rationships good. 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:14.520 We do continue to give lots of ideas. And it 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:17.200 was ironic that what was fun. We had a client 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:19.000 diner last night and Howard came to taught to clients. 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:22.400 It was late as they finished up the news on Greenland, 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:23.720 and he was able to come in. 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:24.880 And talk about what happened. 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:28.200 And those were international clients who admittedly were confused for 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:30.880 forty eight hours, you know, and what I've tried to 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:34.440 do with the administration's policies and talk, especially people outside 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:36.920 nine States, to say, listen to what they're saying. You 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.960 can figure out what's going to happen. Don't confuse security 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:42.280 with a trade policy. They wanted to get action and 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.320 they did and that's a great thing. And you saw 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:47.160 you leave aside the market reaction, which can go up 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:48.480 and down on a day, well you saw is the 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:51.480 clients say okay, I got it. Now let's go set 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:53.800 the business plans that will help have that growth in 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:54.240 the future. 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:56.480 Ron, it's going to see you looking forward to covering 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:57.040 the World Cup. 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.000 With you as well. Thanks for your months. Thank you, sir, 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:00.680 Thank you very much. Bro one and a half the 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:02.880 Bank of America Chairman and c e O.