Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of iHeartRadio and Grim
Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Manky.
Speaker 2: Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to the season six finale of Haunted Road.
Speaker 3: I want to remind you to please stay subscribed and
Speaker 3: keep telling your friends about Haunted Road in the meantime
Speaker 3: while we get more episodes in order, please come see
Speaker 3: me in person. Head to amybrune dot com to see
Speaker 3: if I'll be in your neck of the woods anytime soon.
Speaker 3: I've got a massive fall tour in the works, Walking
Speaker 3: with Ghosts, True Crime Hauntings with Amy Bruney, and it
Speaker 3: covers some of my most intense cases and evidence with
Speaker 3: a true crime spin to each. Plus I bring some
Speaker 3: of my favorite haunted artifacts along so you can get
Speaker 3: to know them personally. And of course, please join us
Speaker 3: at the Paranormal Circle, a place where you can get
Speaker 3: weird with a lot of other ghost nerds like me.
Speaker 3: We do live streaming investigations, we do interviews with some
Speaker 3: of my favorite paranormal friends like Josh Gates, Adam Barry,
Speaker 3: Chip Coffee, and Moore. There's twenty four to seven webcams
Speaker 3: and a lot more. Again, head to Amy brune dot
Speaker 3: com to join in all the spooky fun. Now Haunted
Speaker 3: Roadies enjoy the season six finale. Years ago, I was
Speaker 3: investigating an old nursing home. I was sitting in the darkness,
Speaker 3: peering down a long hallway, waiting for something, anything, to happen.
Speaker 3: I'd heard noises at the end of the hall, and
Speaker 3: I was determined to see if they were ghostly or
Speaker 3: some sort of critter that had gotten in the space.
Speaker 3: And that's when I saw it. The darkness seemed to
Speaker 3: move on one side of the hall, the entire darkness.
Speaker 3: It stirred a bit, and then a large portion of
Speaker 3: what I assumed to be shadows broke loose from the
Speaker 3: black space, and I could see it was humanoid in nature,
Speaker 3: and it was crawling. As quick as I could register
Speaker 3: what I was seeing, that same crawling thing scurried from
Speaker 3: the floor, up the wall, across the ceiling, and disappeared
Speaker 3: into a gaping chunk of the ceiling that had long
Speaker 3: fallen and rotted away. I'd seen what we call a crawler,
Speaker 3: and the place where headed this week is notorious for them.
Speaker 3: Join me as we head to Saint Albans Sanatorium. I'm
Speaker 3: Amy Bruney and this is Haunted Road, a pair of
Speaker 3: stately brick buildings designed in the classic Revival style tower
Speaker 3: on a bluff that looms over the New River in Radford, Virginia.
Speaker 3: The two structures stand very near each other, just sixty
Speaker 3: feet apart, while an eight foot wide corridor connects the two.
Speaker 3: They're each two stories tall with dingy windows looking out
Speaker 3: over the neatly mowed lawns, but the interior of each
Speaker 3: building is anything but tidy or well maintained. The structures
Speaker 3: are currently undergoing renovations, but if you walk a little
Speaker 3: past the areas that have been restored, you'll find passageways
Speaker 3: where the bluish white paint peels off crumbling walls. In
Speaker 3: some places, large patches of plaster are visible. Even beneath
Speaker 3: the decay, you can see hints of old glory. The
Speaker 3: remains of an old grand staircase and a former sun
Speaker 3: room still stand, the ladder of which is still brightly
Speaker 3: lit thanks to the overhead skylights. There's even a modest
Speaker 3: underground bowling alley with two lanes. The facility, known as
Speaker 3: Saint Alban's Sanatorium, was originally constructed as a private prep
Speaker 3: school for boys in eighteen ninety two. At the time, Radford,
Speaker 3: Virginia was going through a period of transformation after numerous
Speaker 3: Civil War battles had swept through the region, leaving destruction
Speaker 3: in their While the town had only been formally incorporated
Speaker 3: for less than a decade at that point, it had
Speaker 3: also already changed.
Speaker 1: Its name once.
Speaker 3: While Radford was redefining itself, the new school catered to
Speaker 3: its wealthier residents. Once Saint Albans first opened its doors,
Speaker 3: it had the capacity to serve fifty students, and the
Speaker 3: inaugural class had thirty nine. Interestingly, the school only had
Speaker 3: five teachers, counting the headmaster, who also owned the institution,
Speaker 3: and almost all of them were completely inexperienced in education.
Speaker 3: In fact, the headmaster was a lot more interested in
Speaker 3: developing the athletics program than he was in academics. According
Speaker 3: to Anne Stuart Beckett's report for the United States Department
Speaker 3: of the Interior, the school had one of the top
Speaker 3: football and baseball programs in all of the South during
Speaker 3: his tenure. This was a big draw for prospective students. However,
Speaker 3: in the early nineteen hundred that headmaster sold the institution
Speaker 3: to pursue more profitable opportunities. Sadly again, this is according
Speaker 3: to Anne Beckett, the new owners squandered the school's resources
Speaker 3: and good name. It soon became an open secret that
Speaker 3: the students didn't respect anyone. Beckett reported that they were
Speaker 3: verbally abusive to their professors, locals around town, and each other.
Speaker 3: They drank to excess and destroyed property. In the yearbooks.
Speaker 3: Whichever students wrote the copy openly bragged about beating up
Speaker 3: their classmates. They also called them rude names in print.
Speaker 3: In light of all of that, it was almost inevitable
Speaker 3: that the local families would find other places to send
Speaker 3: their children rather than send them to Saint Albans with
Speaker 3: its bad reputation. Enrollment numbers declined year after year, until
Speaker 3: finally the school had to be shuttered. After several years
Speaker 3: spent sitting empty, the facilities sold again in nineteen fifteen.
Speaker 3: This time around, the buyer was a man named doctor J. C.
Speaker 4: King.
Speaker 3: He had no background in the academics, but unlike some
Speaker 3: of the former owners, he also had no interest in
Speaker 3: owning or operating a school. King had previously worked in
Speaker 3: a mental health institution, and after he acquired Saint Albans,
Speaker 3: he converted it into a facility he called Saint Albans Sanatorium.
Speaker 3: While the hospital was originally intended to focus on nervous
Speaker 3: and emotional disorders, over time their mission expanded. At various periods,
Speaker 3: they treated substance use disorders, alcohol abuse, and physical conditions
Speaker 3: like syphilis. Doctor King, who lived on site, even provided
Speaker 3: emergency medical care and delivered babies for locals who sought
Speaker 3: his expertise. But in the beginning, there was a great
Speaker 3: demand specifically for mental health treatment, so much so that
Speaker 3: when the sanatorium first formerly own, opened its doors on
Speaker 3: January sixteenth, nineteen sixteen, there were already four prospective patients
Speaker 3: lined up outside. Those residents and the later ones found
Speaker 3: a warm, welcoming home. In their book Haunted Asylums, Prisons
Speaker 3: and Sanatoriums Inside Abandoned Institutions for the Crazy, criminal and Quarantined,
Speaker 3: authors James Davis and Samuel Queen described the conditions in
Speaker 3: very positive terms. They said that Saint Albans ran an
Speaker 3: on site farm which provided fresh produce for the residents.
Speaker 3: Their go to remedies included rest and relaxation, games of
Speaker 3: croquet and tennis, and even massages. This was not the
Speaker 3: norm when it came to mental health treatment in the
Speaker 3: nineteen tens, so it's no surprise that patients flocked to
Speaker 3: Saint Albans. Unfortunately, people didn't understand mental illness well in
Speaker 3: that time, and this meant the sanatorium also prescribed treatments
Speaker 3: that we'd consider barbe barrack today. It doesn't seem that
Speaker 3: the doctors were acting out of malice or cruelty, merely ignorance.
Speaker 3: According to the Roanoke Times, Saint Albans was the first
Speaker 3: hospital in all of Virginia to adopt the then cutting
Speaker 3: edge practice known as subcoma insulin shock therapy. The theory
Speaker 3: behind it was that some mental health conditions could be
Speaker 3: cured if the patients spent a few hours in a coma,
Speaker 3: But the process the doctors used to induce these commas
Speaker 3: was very dangerous and sometimes fatal, and sadly, even for
Speaker 3: those patients who survived, the remedy was frequently ineffective. Still,
Speaker 3: more and more patients checked in, and Saint Albans had
Speaker 3: to add new beds to keep up with demand. They
Speaker 3: built new additions in nineteen twenty six, then again in
Speaker 3: nineteen fifty and once more between nineteen fifty four and
Speaker 3: nineteen fifty five. In the midst of all this construction,
Speaker 3: in nineteen fifty one, the sanatorium's owner, Doctor King, passed away,
Speaker 3: his son, James took over. An article with the Martinsville
Speaker 3: Bulletin reported that around this time the sanatorium experienced a
Speaker 3: one hundred percent labor force turnover. Every single person who'd
Speaker 3: worked under doctor King's supervision was either fired, laid off,
Speaker 3: or resigned due to poor pay and a heavy workload.
Speaker 3: There were simply too many patients for all of the
Speaker 3: nurses and doctors to give them the care they needed,
Speaker 3: and the staff was getting burnt out. James approved better
Speaker 3: pay to try to stem the exodus, and after that
Speaker 3: the hospital continued to operate for decades. It continued expanding
Speaker 3: and adding new buildings until it finally shut its doors
Speaker 3: for good in nineteen ninety four. Originally there were plans
Speaker 3: to demolish it, but throughout the two thousands and early
Speaker 3: twenty tens, local activists fought to preserve the facility. This
Speaker 3: was in part due to its historical significance, but also
Speaker 3: because by this point Saint Albans had earned a reputation
Speaker 3: for being haunted. In fact, according to some Saint Albans
Speaker 3: was called the most haunted location on the East Coast
Speaker 3: after it secured a spot on the National Register of
Speaker 3: Historic Places. In twenty twenty, Saint Albans became an historical
Speaker 3: museum which also hosted ghost tours. Visitors who come on
Speaker 3: these tours report all of the typical sides you see
Speaker 3: in any haunted location. There are noises that don't have
Speaker 3: a clear source, disembodied footsteps, voices, and even sounds of
Speaker 3: merriment like laughter, singing, and whistling. A cold spot may
Speaker 3: suddenly descend and then disperse just as quickly. Electronic devices
Speaker 3: lose their charges rapidly. Guests get the sense that they're
Speaker 3: being watched and might see objects move on their own.
Speaker 3: As for the spirits that are thought to dwell there,
Speaker 3: they have been known to be aggressive. Multiple guests came
Speaker 3: away from their tours with deep scratch marks. Others got
Speaker 3: burned so severe they left welts. There are several specific
Speaker 3: specters who make regular appearances at Saint Albans, especially in
Speaker 3: the boiler Room and the Bowling Alley, both of which
Speaker 3: are hotspots for sightings. In the boiler room, female visitors
Speaker 3: often feel as though some entity they can't see as
Speaker 3: groping them or touching their hair. Much of the activity
Speaker 3: in this room is attributed to a spirit that has
Speaker 3: been nicknamed Smoky. It's thought to not be human, and
Speaker 3: guests often leave it lit cigarettes as a sort of
Speaker 3: peace offering. As for the basement, there's quite a bit
Speaker 3: of debate about who exactly dwells there.
Speaker 1: One story goes.
Speaker 3: That a young woman was admitted to Saint Albans, then
Speaker 3: passed away there the ghost of her daughter, a young girl,
Speaker 3: now roams the basement searching for her departed mother. Other
Speaker 3: account says the ghost is a woman named Gina renee Hall.
Speaker 3: She was murdered in nineteen eighty by a man who
Speaker 3: gave her a ride home from a nightclub. Her body
Speaker 3: was never found, even after her killer was caught and convicted.
Speaker 3: Some think her murderer might have burned it in the
Speaker 3: Saint Alban's boiler, or he might have stashed her remains
Speaker 3: away somewhere else on the property. Supposedly, if you say
Speaker 3: Gina's name out loud while in the Bowling Alley, a
Speaker 3: mist will appear before your eyes, as though you've summoned her.
Speaker 3: The Bowling Alley is also home to a shadow figure
Speaker 3: with striking red eyes, but ghost hunters don't need to
Speaker 3: restrict themselves to the Bowling Alley, boiler room and basement
Speaker 3: to have an encounter. Reports say a woman's spirit wanders
Speaker 3: Saint Alban's halls carrying a baby.
Speaker 1: She seems to be.
Speaker 3: In her twenties or thirties and often wears a white
Speaker 3: dress that looks like something from the late eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 3: Typically she'll appear under the main staircase's archway. There are
Speaker 3: also reports of a dark haired young girl, and one
Speaker 3: ghost is said to be aggressive, with men rushing at
Speaker 3: them when they encounter it. One of the most well
Speaker 3: known spirits is a woman named Rebecca. It said that
Speaker 3: she was pregnant while she was living at the hospital,
Speaker 3: although accounts vary as to whether she was already expecting
Speaker 3: when she checked in or if she conceived the child
Speaker 3: during her stay. Either way, the baby didn't make it again.
Speaker 3: There doesn't seem to be much consensus about what exactly
Speaker 3: happened to it. Some stories say it was a stillbirth,
Speaker 3: others say a miscarriage. There are even rumors which were
Speaker 3: reported by Jody Arneson on the mid Atlantic Day Trips
Speaker 3: website that sanatorium employees forced Rebecca to have an abortion
Speaker 3: she did not want. Arneson also reported that after the
Speaker 3: child passed, a heartbroken Rebecca kept its remains in ajar.
Speaker 3: She treated it like a real living baby, rocking it
Speaker 3: and singing Lalla. Eventually, the staff decided this was unhealthy
Speaker 3: and they took the jar away from Rebecca to bury it.
Speaker 3: Unable to deal with her loss, Rebecca marched into the
Speaker 3: bathroom right next door to her room. There she took
Speaker 3: her own life. She was one of several patients who
Speaker 3: died by suicide in that very bathroom. Estimates put the
Speaker 3: number at anywhere between three and twelve people. Today, visitors
Speaker 3: who set foot in that bathroom or Rebecca's bedroom often
Speaker 3: report that they feel an overwhelming sadness. Some burst into
Speaker 3: tears without fully understanding why. There are also often sightings
Speaker 3: of a pair of men, Jacob and Donald. It's unclear
Speaker 3: who Jacob and Donald were in life, and there's no
Speaker 3: historical record of either one, but there are various stories
Speaker 3: that tried to explain their backgrounds. One goes that Jacob
Speaker 3: was a young child who grew up in the sanatorium
Speaker 3: after his parents gave him up. Donald was a pedophile
Speaker 3: who worked at Saint all doing odd jobs and handiwork.
Speaker 3: It's said that one night Donald sexually assaulted Jacob, then
Speaker 3: killed the boy. After the deed was done, Now his
Speaker 3: spirit tries to recreate the crime, coaxing male visitors into
Speaker 3: his room and then into his closet. Evil Ogolville's article
Speaker 3: to Catch a Preternatural Predator Donald of Saint Alban's Sanatorium, Radford,
Speaker 3: Virginia suggests that Jacob's spirit is unable to move on
Speaker 3: because Donald is still keeping him there within his grasp.
Speaker 3: Another variation on this story goes that Donald didn't actually
Speaker 3: kill Jacob, but he was falsely accused of the murder
Speaker 3: after the young boy turned up dead. In this version,
Speaker 3: Donald was an innocent gay man blame fell on him
Speaker 3: solely due to the widespread homophobic attitudes of the time,
Speaker 3: But there is absolutely no historical documentation to back any
Speaker 3: of these stories up. Regardless of where the truth lies,
Speaker 3: it's clear that the halls of Saint Alban's Sanatorium are
Speaker 3: marked by sadness. Even though the staff seemed to want
Speaker 3: the best for their patients during the hospital's operation, they
Speaker 3: couldn't be everything they needed. Every human life has a
Speaker 3: certain amount of tragedy, and when you exacerbate that with
Speaker 3: mental illness and a poor understanding of how to treat it,
Speaker 3: it seems inevitable that some of that pain will linger permanently.
Speaker 3: So today I am talking to Steve Dills. He is
Speaker 3: a paranormal investigator and researcher who has spent quite a
Speaker 3: bit of time at Saint Albans and he has some
Speaker 3: of the wildest stories I have heard on Haunted Road.
Speaker 3: Yet that is coming up after the break. All right,
Speaker 3: I am now joined by Steve Dills, who is a
Speaker 3: paranormal investigator and researcher and has investigated and visited Saint
Speaker 3: Albans many times. So Steve, why don't you tell me
Speaker 3: what team you're from and what it is you do
Speaker 3: exact Hey?
Speaker 4: Sure? So again, my name is Steve Dill's.
Speaker 2: I am the director of Transcend Paranormal or a paranormal
Speaker 2: team that operates in central Virginia and we do quite
Speaker 2: a bit of traveling, but we also partner with historical
Speaker 2: locations throughout Virginia and surrounding states and we host you know,
Speaker 2: ghost tours, public investigations, lectures, presentations, hold nine yards and
Speaker 2: one hundred percent of the proceeds goes directly to the
Speaker 2: historic locations that we're working with.
Speaker 3: Oh, I love that so much. Yeah, we talk about
Speaker 3: that a lot on the show. Here about that really
Speaker 3: lovely byproduct of paranormal research and investigation that sometimes we
Speaker 3: can actually help some of these historical locations financially. You know,
Speaker 3: regardless of how you feel about ghosts and hauntings or
Speaker 3: if you believe in them or not, there are some
Speaker 3: really great work that comes out of this. So I
Speaker 3: really admire that. That's really awesome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's it's a really cool way to kind
Speaker 2: of I guess it's a different lens that you get
Speaker 2: to explore and kind of pack history. So it's kind
Speaker 2: of fun to flip something on its side and take
Speaker 2: a look at it from a different angle.
Speaker 4: It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean, seriously, Virginia, You've got a lot
Speaker 3: of history going on there, so you're.
Speaker 1: You're in an area right for research. I love it.
Speaker 3: Full disclosure for my listeners and for you Steep, because
Speaker 3: I did not tell you this, but I am currently
Speaker 3: recording this. We're on vacation. Anyone who follows me online
Speaker 3: knows I'm here a lot, but we're on vacation at
Speaker 3: Disney World, which is lovely. But that also means that
Speaker 3: there are ferries.
Speaker 1: In the background.
Speaker 3: And if you hear a horn, it's not a ghost
Speaker 3: horn like a it's a water taxi horn. And if
Speaker 3: you hear voices, it's probably housekeeping. So I know sometimes
Speaker 3: people hear voices in the background when I'm recording at home,
Speaker 3: which I do not have an explanation for, but this
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 4: But anyways, we're in line for the Haunted Mansion right now.
Speaker 4: I may have to leave.
Speaker 3: I might have to go ride the ride really fast
Speaker 3: if only, oh my gosh, I would be amazing. But
Speaker 3: later today that is on our agenda. Anyways, how did
Speaker 3: you become involved with Saint Albans or how did you
Speaker 3: come to investigate there?
Speaker 2: Gosh, I actually went up there just for an event
Speaker 2: one year, and I heard, you know, I heard a
Speaker 2: bunch about Saint Albans. You gotta go, you gotta go.
Speaker 2: It's you know, it's one of the most honed locations
Speaker 2: on the East Coast. I'm like, all right, well it's
Speaker 2: you know, it's about a two hour three hour driver.
Speaker 2: So and just decided to like okay doing it. And
Speaker 2: after that the first time I was, I was pretty hooked.
Speaker 2: And so, you know, we we ended up booking Saint
Speaker 2: Albans privately a couple of times and then met the
Speaker 2: teams that kind of help and and focus a lot
Speaker 2: of their time and energy and volunteer at Saint Albans,
Speaker 2: and I don't know, just became friends. And so we
Speaker 2: go up there every so often and try to help
Speaker 2: and support them with their events. And then a lot
Speaker 2: of times we still you know, rented out ourselves because
Speaker 2: I don't know, I love Saint Albans. It's it's something
Speaker 2: that just keeps bringing you back.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 3: When did you know, like when you what was the
Speaker 3: first time that you really had some sort of experience
Speaker 3: there or vibe there that you knew like this is
Speaker 3: something special, There's something definitely going on here.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Like the very first time that we we rented out
Speaker 2: the building, very first time that we went and investigated,
Speaker 2: we were actually on the you know, like the tour.
Speaker 2: So when you go and investigate Saint Albans, first off,
Speaker 2: they will they will all for a tour, so you can,
Speaker 2: you know, they'll show you kind of where all the
Speaker 2: different locations in the building is where everything you know
Speaker 2: how to navigate. But Saint Albans is a maze, hands down.
Speaker 2: I have heard people tell me that they feel like
Speaker 2: the walls move and you know, the walk run way
Speaker 2: and turn around and they're completely lost.
Speaker 1: Like a labyrinth situation.
Speaker 4: It is.
Speaker 2: It is massive, absolutely massive. But the very first time
Speaker 2: that we went, we were we were taking a tour
Speaker 2: so that we wouldn't get lost. We did anyways, and
Speaker 2: we were on the grand staircase walking up the steps
Speaker 2: and we didn't know this at the time, but going
Speaker 2: back and listening to the audio recordings, we recorded the
Speaker 2: sound of this woman singing clear as day, to the
Speaker 2: point that I almost skipped it, thinking that it was
Speaker 2: like one of the team members. But we had heard
Speaker 2: stories about Saint Albans about singing and whistling and all
Speaker 2: these sorts of things, so we decided that we would
Speaker 2: not do that specifically, just in case we caught anything
Speaker 2: like that smart and it was, I mean, even to
Speaker 2: this day, it's one of the clearest EVPs that I've
Speaker 2: got recorded And wow, I knew, I mean, And that
Speaker 2: was just the first thing we got.
Speaker 4: We got two other pieces of class A EVPs.
Speaker 2: One in what was referred to as Jacob's room and
Speaker 2: another one immediately outside of it. And even in those
Speaker 2: this entity individual said I am Jacob and then oh my,
Speaker 2: poor little Jacob, and oh my gosh, just listening to those,
Speaker 2: you know, you kind of have like the hair raise
Speaker 2: on your back because it wasn't expected. This was this
Speaker 2: was just during the tour. We hadn't even started investigating,
Speaker 2: so it was it was. It was pretty cool, and
Speaker 2: it's just kept us coming back every time.
Speaker 1: Wow, I have loved that.
Speaker 3: And so Jacob's room seems to be of particular interests,
Speaker 3: Like who do you think Jacob is?
Speaker 2: That is a great question and and I'm not sure
Speaker 2: if I'm I'm terribly in the popular I guess belief
Speaker 2: because I have this this strong feeling. So so as
Speaker 2: the story goes, right, let's let's step back and talk
Speaker 2: about who is Jacob? And right, So, so as the
Speaker 2: story goes, Jacob is young boy that has abandoned right
Speaker 2: at the asylum doors, right, and so the staff decide,
Speaker 2: and so it was a boy's uh school at one point,
Speaker 2: but when when Jacob is dropped off, it is not
Speaker 2: a boys school. It is the asylum, and the staff decide,
Speaker 2: you know what, you know, what's a really great idea.
Speaker 4: Let's bring this young little boy in. Let's give him
Speaker 4: a bedroom.
Speaker 2: And let him stay with us, you know, instead of like, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't know, let's let's like get him to the
Speaker 2: right you know, organization, and make sure that he gets
Speaker 2: a loving family and he's adopted.
Speaker 4: No, no, no, let's leave raise him.
Speaker 1: In his sanitorium.
Speaker 4: It this is gonna be a great idea. Let's raise
Speaker 4: him here in this insane asylum. Perfect idea.
Speaker 2: And so so they gave him this room, right, and
Speaker 2: he he lives there for a little bit in this
Speaker 2: in in his room, and h one night the staff
Speaker 2: forget to lock his door or one of the patients
Speaker 2: finds keys somehow gets into Jacob's room. And I'm gonna
Speaker 2: skip kind of some of the nastier side of this,
Speaker 2: but Jacob ends up passing away, right, And so when
Speaker 2: when teams go in and investigate, right, they focus on
Speaker 2: this story that Jacob is this young boy and you know,
Speaker 2: he was murdered and all these sorts of things. And
Speaker 2: you walk into Jacob's room and there's a bunch of
Speaker 2: toys on the ground, there's a bunch of kids books,
Speaker 2: so on and so forth. Looking back historically, myself and
Speaker 2: a number of other folks have not been able to
Speaker 2: find any actual proof that a young boy named Jacob
Speaker 2: was ever at the asylum in any capacity. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: so to me it's hard because I feel like if
Speaker 2: there was a young boy there, there'd be some sort
Speaker 2: of documentation.
Speaker 3: Right, there'd be some men in a newspaper article something,
Speaker 3: because that's very interesting, just raising a little boy in
Speaker 3: that situation.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like, it's not even heart it's just like
Speaker 4: it's weird.
Speaker 2: And so my thought is that maybe Jacob isn't necessarily
Speaker 2: a little boy in the sense of age, but it's
Speaker 2: somebody that was a patient that maybe had split personality,
Speaker 2: multiple personality, and Jacob was one of those personalities. This
Speaker 2: young boy that is is a victim. And to me,
Speaker 2: you know, that makes a lot more sense with the
Speaker 2: history of the building and the timeline of Jacob being
Speaker 2: dropped off, is maybe this was an individual that one
Speaker 2: of their personalities was Jacob. This young boy like to
Speaker 2: play with toys, you know, those sorts of things that
Speaker 2: to me makes a lot more sense than a little
Speaker 2: boy being dropped off.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that does.
Speaker 3: Now, what do you think of maybe the potential that
Speaker 3: this this Jacob identity has been so kind of so built, right,
Speaker 3: so built and accepted by investigators and they talk about
Speaker 3: him constantly. Do you think it's kind of it could
Speaker 3: be like kind of a Philip experiment moment where they've
Speaker 3: kind of spoken Jacob into being like he's kind of
Speaker 3: what there's some sort of agrigor tulpa situation going on.
Speaker 1: I could see that too.
Speaker 4: Hundred percent absolutely.
Speaker 2: And then that's the other That's the other piece that
Speaker 2: that about that too, is is so many people focus
Speaker 2: on that story, right, Like you said, so many people everybody.
Speaker 2: If you just google Saint alban Sanatorium, I will, I
Speaker 2: will guarantee you you'll find something about Jacob immediately.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And and that story, like you said, it's just
Speaker 2: it's just so widely spread and passed around that I
Speaker 2: agree with you. I think that there is a very
Speaker 2: strong opportunity that this could be something very similar to
Speaker 2: the Philip experiment. So many people are talking about it,
Speaker 2: and and especially you go in and you focus all
Speaker 2: that energy about you know, Jacob Jacob, Jacob Jacob. I
Speaker 2: think that it very well, could be something that we
Speaker 2: have as a byproduct of investigating.
Speaker 3: Yea, And they're bringing him toys and gifts. That's so
Speaker 3: interesting And it's funny too because there are probably you know,
Speaker 3: there are I'm sure there's no shortage of spirits there.
Speaker 3: And can you imagine being one of the other ghosts
Speaker 3: and you're like, okay, enough about Jacob here I am,
Speaker 3: I'm right here.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't get toys exactly.
Speaker 4: It's like it's like the next room over and it's
Speaker 4: just come on, we're a little spirit. You're just kind
Speaker 4: of like peeking out around the door. Anybody want to
Speaker 4: come into it?
Speaker 1: Seriously?
Speaker 3: Well, I find that to be very interesting and so
Speaker 3: all right, so you've got great EVPs. You have these
Speaker 3: interactions and these stories like have you ever seen anything there? Like,
Speaker 3: have you ever seen an apparition or any sort of
Speaker 3: light normalist? Okay, what what was the most striking thing
Speaker 3: that you've seen there?
Speaker 2: So so this is not something I mean, I've seen things,
Speaker 2: but one of the most interesting things was actually a
Speaker 2: buddy of mine, Alan Marston, and Alan lives pretty close there,
Speaker 2: so he's up there all the time, and I want
Speaker 2: to share what he experienced and saw because Alan's like
Speaker 2: a brother and me and I absolutely trust this man
Speaker 2: my life. So so Alan was up there, he had
Speaker 2: gone up and he was helping them, you know, clean
Speaker 2: up and work and all that sort of stuff. And
Speaker 2: so he stayed with some of his family and investigated
Speaker 2: one evening and scene all beens. You know, first off,
Speaker 2: it's it's a paranormal research center. Folks can can rent
Speaker 2: it out, but they closed down kind of during the fall,
Speaker 2: like September October, and they have a haunted house that
Speaker 2: operates throughout the entire building. And so this is a
Speaker 2: little bit before Alan is investigating. He's walking through the
Speaker 2: building and he had just passed the Grand staircase and
Speaker 2: there is a for those of that have been to
Speaker 2: Saint Albans, you walk past the Grand Staircase, there's a
Speaker 2: smaller stairwell on the left hand side that's kind of
Speaker 2: towards what is referred to as the King Center. And
Speaker 2: Alan's walking by and he kind of shines his flashlight
Speaker 2: to look down the steps, and as he does, there
Speaker 2: is a man standing there in a black kind of
Speaker 2: like robe and a pig mask. No way like straight
Speaker 2: out of Saw, you know, and Alan looks directly. This
Speaker 2: person makes eye contact with them, and Alan says he
Speaker 2: could see the fear in this man's eyes that like
Speaker 2: he was startled that he was looking at Alan and
Speaker 2: Alan and was looking at him. And so whomever this
Speaker 2: was in this pig mask immediately turns to go like
Speaker 2: down the steps and then disappears.
Speaker 1: It disappears in front of him, like you can see.
Speaker 2: In front, right in front of Alan just just disappears gone.
Speaker 2: And I I mean, I don't know, there's so many
Speaker 2: creepy aspects of this, right, You've got You've got Alan there,
Speaker 2: and he looks down the stairwell right like the creepy
Speaker 2: stairs down and there's a man walking up. And if
Speaker 2: you've ever watched Saw, you're like, oh god, you know,
Speaker 2: pig Mask bad news.
Speaker 3: I haven't watched it because I am terrified of scary movies,
Speaker 3: but I know the image watch it, Yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean it's it's incredibly gory.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the gory ones.
Speaker 3: I don't really like yeah, no, no, no, no, anyway, I agree,
Speaker 3: I digress.
Speaker 1: I do that a lot.
Speaker 2: Uh So, So he looks down and he sees, you know,
Speaker 2: this person like, to me, it is it is one
Speaker 2: of the most interesting things and experiences to dissect, right,
Speaker 2: because Alan is startled to see this full body apparision,
Speaker 2: this figure walking up the steps. But the fact that
Speaker 2: he makes eye contact with with whatever this is and
Speaker 2: it itself is also startled, I think is just absolutely
Speaker 2: interesting because we have this this idea that ghosts, spirit entities,
Speaker 2: whatever you want to refer to the matters are kind
Speaker 2: of like omnipotent, like they they they know what you're doing, right,
Speaker 2: They're like Santa Claus, and you know, if they're walking
Speaker 2: up the steps, they're they're aware that you're up there.
Speaker 2: You know, their intent is to do either whatever they're
Speaker 2: doing or to secure you.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: But the fact that whatever this was was was just
Speaker 2: as startled as Alan to me is very very interesting
Speaker 2: because the challenges, you know, kind of like the basic
Speaker 2: you know, ghost trope that we've kind of pushed out there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I love it.
Speaker 2: Because it's like, was this individual actually, you know, if
Speaker 2: we if we go with the basic our ghosts stead people,
Speaker 2: was this somebody that had passed on and they had
Speaker 2: been part of the haunted house experience at one point
Speaker 2: and they're kind of you know, reliving out, you know,
Speaker 2: some fun piece of this. But then if so, why
Speaker 2: were they startled to see Alan? That would that would
Speaker 2: suggest that this wasn't just you know, something occurring, but
Speaker 2: this was an intelligent experience.
Speaker 4: So so is.
Speaker 2: There something more where we kind of butted up maybe
Speaker 2: against another you know, another universe or another reality and
Speaker 2: we just you know, Alan just got a perfect view
Speaker 2: right through a window and it just just so happened
Speaker 2: to startle both of them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a lot to unpack, you know. It's just
Speaker 3: like just the sheer like appearance of this form, obviously
Speaker 3: on its own, is very strange. Makes sense for the
Speaker 3: time of year and what's going on there, but not
Speaker 3: in the sense that there should be anyone there. And
Speaker 3: then yeah, it does bring to mind like is this
Speaker 3: someone coming back and like reliving their haunted house?
Speaker 1: I'm is there?
Speaker 3: Did they did they die in the pig mask? Do
Speaker 3: they like wearing the you know what?
Speaker 4: I mean?
Speaker 1: So many questions.
Speaker 3: That that's so, that is a really wild story. People
Speaker 3: must see all sorts of apparitions there, like they must.
Speaker 3: I mean, what do you think are the most common
Speaker 3: reports other than pig man oh Man?
Speaker 2: So so in terms of the most common and I
Speaker 2: will tell you I've seen personally. I've seen this thing
Speaker 2: numerous times is what is referred to as the crawler.
Speaker 2: And I'm sure Amy you've you've heard of references of
Speaker 2: these things.
Speaker 1: Oh, I've seen them, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2: And it's it's just this this humanoid kind of figure
Speaker 2: that is almost like a shadow and crawling on all fours,
Speaker 2: on the floor, on the walls, on the ceilings, you
Speaker 2: name it. It just it just loves us to get everything.
Speaker 2: I have seen this down hallways. I've seen this thing
Speaker 2: walk past me. I've seen whatever this thing is probably
Speaker 2: seven feet from me crawling out of a room in
Speaker 2: drunk tank, as I referred to it as. And it's
Speaker 2: it's creepy. Actually, I actually watched this thing and it
Speaker 2: was kind of like it had a gate of like
Speaker 2: a cat. Yeah, and it just kind of like crawled
Speaker 2: out of one of the one of the rooms and
Speaker 2: and just kind of scuttled down the hallway. And there
Speaker 2: were three of us that were standing there watching this thing.
Speaker 2: I ran after it because I'm full of bad decisions,
Speaker 2: and so did one of my other teammates. My third
Speaker 2: teammate decided that was enough and he started going the
Speaker 2: opposite direction, but the crawler is probably one of the
Speaker 2: most prolific.
Speaker 4: You know, you'll look.
Speaker 2: Down a hallway and you'll just see, you know, this
Speaker 2: this silhouette for like a brief second of something on
Speaker 2: all fours and folks have reported seeing that time and
Speaker 2: time again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's funny. Those seem to appear in
Speaker 1: that setting very often. Like that sort of setting.
Speaker 3: I don't know what it is about sanatoriums, asylums, prisons,
Speaker 3: you name it, Like they seem to spawn that type
Speaker 3: of apparition or anomaly, and I don't know if it's
Speaker 3: whatever energy there was or whatever happened there before creates
Speaker 3: that type of energy.
Speaker 4: Emotion, you know, the emotional drain the energy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just really interesting.
Speaker 3: And then again kind of going back like talking about Jacob,
Speaker 3: like people start to expect to see it, and like
Speaker 3: I've investigated people where you know, the crawlers as we
Speaker 3: call them, have been seen, and they just fixate on that.
Speaker 1: They are terrified to see that.
Speaker 3: So I think they sit in the dark and they're
Speaker 3: just like, of all the things here, I could see
Speaker 3: a crawler, you know, and it just defies all logic
Speaker 3: when you do actually see one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's like like you said, it's it always
Speaker 2: seems to be these like creepy like I've never heard
Speaker 2: of somebody being like, oh yeah, is that the haunted Airbnb?
Speaker 2: And or like the haunted bed and breakfast and I
Speaker 2: saw a crawler come out we were eating breakfast.
Speaker 4: You know, it's always like oh.
Speaker 2: Wait, it's always in the extreme responts and and like
Speaker 2: you said, I think people do fixate on it and
Speaker 2: and they get terrified. And I sometimes I think, and
Speaker 2: I know we're completely tangent right now on on the
Speaker 2: the prolif experience there, but I do think Saint Albans
Speaker 2: kind of gives you what you want. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: in a sense like if you're if you're going in
Speaker 2: there and you're trying to have an experience or you're
Speaker 2: trying to see something.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: There's there's this interesting idea that we've been toying with
Speaker 2: that that Saint Albans can kind of collectively understand, Okay, well,
Speaker 2: this guy's looking for this, so let's let's give him
Speaker 2: an experience. And we've been we've been kind of testing
Speaker 2: that out a little bit as we've been returning to
Speaker 2: Saint Albans and and just implanting these ideas in our
Speaker 2: mind of this is what we want to see this time,
Speaker 2: this is all we want to see next time, this
Speaker 2: is what we want to see, you know, the time
Speaker 2: after that. And and interestingly enough, we've we've had some
Speaker 2: of those experiences just.
Speaker 4: Very very tailored. It's it's the weirdest thing.
Speaker 3: It's kind of becoming its own, its own self. You know,
Speaker 3: it has its own consciousness and it and it can
Speaker 3: read you, which is pretty wild. I love that experiment.
Speaker 3: And it's so you're so privileged to be able to
Speaker 3: kind of investigate a place like that over and over
Speaker 3: again where you can kind of put something like that
Speaker 3: into motion. I think that's so interesting.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and we work with you know, we work
Speaker 2: with some of the other teams like Bedford Paranormal and
Speaker 2: Mountain Spirits up there, and you know, they worked very
Speaker 2: very closely with Saint Albans. You do a lot of volunteering.
Speaker 2: They're up their host and events all the time, help
Speaker 2: them fundraise. And the fun thing is, you know, they're
Speaker 2: kind of like a second family to me, like I
Speaker 2: know them.
Speaker 4: We talk often.
Speaker 2: We talked about non paranormal things, right and it's fun
Speaker 2: because we get to not only just ourselves kind of
Speaker 2: try this experiment, but they get involved too, and they're
Speaker 2: up there all the time. So it's really neat to
Speaker 2: have the ability to not just be like dark tourism,
Speaker 2: as I referred to it, where you go one time.
Speaker 2: You know, we get to go time and time again
Speaker 2: over years and collect data and experiences and all these
Speaker 2: sorts of things. And it's a very unique opportunity. You
Speaker 2: don't get to do that all the time.
Speaker 3: Wow, thrilling for you. I'm very jealous.
Speaker 4: So I will calm down.
Speaker 1: I want to. I will.
Speaker 3: Actually, you know, I've said this multiple times this season.
Speaker 3: I sound like a broken record, but I've been doing
Speaker 3: so many locations this season of Haunted Road that I
Speaker 3: haven't been to yet. In Saint Albans is one of them,
Speaker 3: and so I fully intend to.
Speaker 1: Make it there.
Speaker 3: I've heard really lovely things, and you've been a wonderful guest.
Speaker 3: I just want to thank you so much. I know
Speaker 3: I chased you around a little bit. Shout out to
Speaker 3: my friend Becky Gallentine, who put us in touch with
Speaker 3: each other.
Speaker 4: Appreciate you, Becky.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've been great and I hope. Yeah, I hope
Speaker 3: to get there soon. So thank you so much for
Speaker 3: the intel and congratulations on all the lovely work you're doing.
Speaker 4: Thank you and make sure you send pictures of the
Speaker 4: Hunted Mansion. Oh, I will for sure absolutely favorite ride.
Speaker 4: It's the only haunted house in the entire America. Is Mansion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's nothing, There's nothing else. Thank you, Steve, Thank you.
Speaker 4: Enjoy.
Speaker 3: Many people came to Saint Alban Sanatorium in the hope
Speaker 3: that they could get treatment and help, and some of
Speaker 3: them were right. It's important that we don't disregard those
Speaker 3: patients success stories and happy endings.
Speaker 1: As for those.
Speaker 3: Who remain restless, still seeking peace, we can hold them
Speaker 3: in our hearts and show our respect when we visit
Speaker 3: the facility from which they may never check out. I'm
Speaker 3: Amy Bruney and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is
Speaker 3: a production of iHeartRadio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Minky.
Speaker 3: Haunted Road is hosted and written by me Amy Bruney,
Speaker 3: with additional research by Cassandra de Alba. This show is
Speaker 3: edited and produced by supervising producer Rima el Kali, with
Speaker 3: executive producers Aaron Menke Trevor Young, and Matt Frederick. Learn
Speaker 3: more about this show over at Grimandmild dot com, and
Speaker 3: for more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.