1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:02,680 Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Chelsea Handler. Welcome to Life Will Be the 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Death of Me, a production of I Heart Radio. I'm 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: sitting here with my psychiatrist Dan and my assistant Brandon, 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: because Brandon and I are attached at the hip and 5 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: hips and I wanted to bring Dan onto UM reminisce 6 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 1: about my therapy and how we met, which was on 7 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: my Netflix talk show Anyway. Hello, Dan, thank you for coming. Hi. 8 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: Good to be here. Hi. Hello Brandon. It's nice to 9 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: see you again after seeing you at my house this 10 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: morning earlier. Um, So, Dan, I met you when I 11 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 1: interviewed you around brain development, childhood, adolescent brain development, right, 12 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: it was more focused on that. It was focused on 13 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: that in a school we were in, like a school 14 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: whole way, Yes, yes, I remember that somewhere, yes, Um. 15 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: And you were talking to me about the brain, and 16 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: as I talked about in my book, you talked about 17 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: the brain in a very kind of literal sense, in 18 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,279 Speaker 1: a in a kind of scientific way that was very 19 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: um easy for me to wrap my head around. I 20 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: was interested in that. And then I think when we met, 21 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: I did ask you a couple of questions about drinking 22 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: and about drug use, and you kind of said to me, 23 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: do you want to I think you said, would you 24 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: like to talk about your drinking that? Well, yeah, I 25 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: mean there are questions that were coming up that were um, 26 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: clearly you wanted to know more than just the show 27 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 1: was addressing. So I actually, UM, was just asking you 28 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: if you wanted to talk more about that, you know, 29 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: the impact of drugs on the brain. Yeah, yeah, you 30 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: seemed interested. Yes, I'm always interested in the subject of drugs. 31 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: And then yes, I mean obviously I was asking for 32 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: a friend, So a friend who lives very close to 33 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: your body. Yes, that one. Um. So then we went 34 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: rand and you didn't find it because I didn't go 35 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: to therapy right after the election. I I interviewed Dan 36 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: for my show, and then months later, I believe a 37 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: couple of months later, I asked you to reach out 38 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: to him an appointment and set an appointment. So that 39 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: was sometime in two thousand. Okay, So, um, let's talk 40 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: about our therapy. Okay. I know you don't feel comfortable 41 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: talking about this, so I have to constantly give you 42 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: permission to talk about my therapy because it's out. The 43 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: secret is out. Yes, So that's a great place to start, 44 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 1: because you know, usually um or I would say always 45 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: as a therapist, you know, I don't speak about the 46 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: therapy with anyone but the therapist in the setting of therapy, 47 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: and so you know, as a professional, I'm a psychiatrist. 48 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: Um it's good to know, extremely unusual to be in 49 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: this situation where you know, number one, you wrote a 50 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: book about our our relationship in the therapeutic experience and 51 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: it's been incredibly inspiring for people. So that was an 52 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: incredible gift. And then there have been now moments where 53 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: because it's public, people will ask you about it. And 54 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 1: we spoke one conference together where you know, uh, you 55 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: you brought up that I was the your therapist and 56 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: I had just given the keynote presentation right before yours, 57 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: and then we were on the stage together for a 58 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: Q and A, and people seem to really respond to that. 59 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: So you know, from the professional point of view, this 60 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: is extremely unusual. But because it's your idea that you 61 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,399 Speaker 1: came up with it, and I actually think it can 62 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: do good in the world, then I'm open to really 63 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: thinking deeply about doing this, even though it's not the 64 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: usual thing that is done of a therapist and a 65 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: client a patient. You know, the person working with them. 66 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: Has this been a pain in the asked for you 67 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: at all? Me writing a book about us, not even 68 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: one moment. Well that's great news because the response I 69 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: got from the book was and the responses I got 70 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: on my on social media and all the mess direct 71 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: messages from all these strangers about all their experiences of 72 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: death and loss and grief has been so moving and 73 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: it was so unexpected. I mean, maybe it wasn't unexpected, 74 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: but I didn't really I thought I was telling my 75 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: own story and I didn't realize I was telling a 76 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: lot of people's stories, right, And I think that's you know, 77 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: And I've said this to you because I think your 78 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: work is really incredible gift. I'm sorry if you can 79 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: hold onto these compliments. I really think it's an incredible gift. 80 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: First of all, that you're willing to be so open 81 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: about what I think is a very courageous journey that 82 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: you've been on in therapy, and from you know, what 83 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 1: people are giving you feedback about it's inspiring them. And 84 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: we saw it at the conference Wisdom to Point Oh 85 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: that people would get to the microphone and say, you 86 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: are inspiring me to look deeply into myself and find 87 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: the parts of myself that have been blocked and I 88 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: want to get help, you know, in in therapy. And 89 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: so when you can do that to actually take people 90 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: have been you know, not moving forward and feeling like 91 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm gonna do with in my life. 92 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: And because your book is so clear and it's funny, 93 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: and it's really articulate and in so many ways brilliant, 94 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: you know you're able to the show people. You know, 95 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: this isn't magic. This is something you can do if 96 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 1: you've had a loss or trauma, that you can actually 97 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: seek professional support, do the reflective work in therapy, see 98 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: the benefits for example of meditation, and you know, as 99 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 1: you say in the book, turn your head around. And 100 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: so that's an incredible gift, and to me, it's all positive. 101 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: The biggest gift I think is learning how to sit 102 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: still with my feelings and in a moment when I 103 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: want to be reactive about breathing, like Brandon has seen me, 104 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: you know, freak out a lot over really stupid things, 105 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: like you know, if because I'm always rushing around and 106 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: like dropping things, and I freak out and you know, 107 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: and then I like lose my temper and I'm just 108 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:42,559 Speaker 1: mad at myself because of my like helpless little girl feeling. 109 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: So now when things like that happen, the way I 110 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: moved through the world and like through my house is 111 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: just slow, Like I just take my time and like 112 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 1: think about what I'm doing, even if it's minutia and mundane. 113 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: All of the mundane nous in life I pay much 114 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: more attention to so that I'm not um rushing blasting 115 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: through it. The part that I didn't write in the book, 116 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: which is which is the part that's been happening since 117 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: I finished the book, is the my meditation. Really, like 118 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 1: I've learned how to meditate. I mean, I'm sure I'm 119 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,679 Speaker 1: not there yet, but I'm getting close to like really 120 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: clicking in with that. Because you forced me to do 121 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: it for three months, Yes, I forced you did, And 122 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: I said I didn't want to do it for three 123 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: months because that sounded like a pregnancy, and then he 124 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: reminded me that pregnancies are longer than three months. And 125 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 1: then I did it for three months. And now it's 126 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: been like six or eight months. And I started at 127 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: Christmas last year. So where's Brandon? We whip up that calculation? 128 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: Six months okay, thanks, um, so I and now I 129 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: do it every day, and if I don't do it, 130 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: I feel off. Like I texted Brandon yesterday saying, remind 131 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: me to meditate because I got up and had to 132 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: rush off to something. So, um, it's definitely helpful. I 133 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: know that I have a long way to go though. Um. 134 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:54,799 Speaker 1: But what I didn't get to address in the book, 135 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: which was all about our therapy and you pointing to 136 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: me where my kind of trapped pain us and my 137 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: un earth you know, trauma, so to speak, and all 138 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: the stuff that I was not being honest with myself 139 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,679 Speaker 1: about or not tending to myself about, and my brother dying, 140 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: my mother dying, my father kind of dying after my 141 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: brother died, all of those things. So that was our 142 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: like journey, I have to say, because that's the only 143 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: word applicable to this, which is such an annoying word 144 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: to me. Whenever I would use it, you'd get really 145 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: a journey. It just sounds so corny. You could take 146 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: it back because a lot of people use it. Well, 147 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to take I tak back to Orange, so 148 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: I might take back journey to Okay, But I don't 149 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: know how to Okay, let me think about taking that back. 150 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: What I haven't really addressed well because it didn't happen 151 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: until after the book was the real kind of um 152 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: presence of mind and consciousness that we've we talked about 153 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: a lot during therapy, but didn't click for me until 154 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: I started meditating, and until I started paying attention to 155 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: all the little things, and then I started to go, Okay, 156 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: this is what's like. Being mindful is and consciousness and 157 00:07:55,400 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: paying attention, not rushing and having exchanges with people and 158 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: breathing all day long, like checking in and going okay, 159 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: stop breathe, be in this conversation, noticing when your thoughts 160 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: go away from what you're focusing on. And my attention 161 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: is so much greater than it was when I met you, 162 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: when I thought I had a d D. What does 163 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: that feel like with the change? Now? Calm? And then 164 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: what's that feel like? Mature? Mature? I feel like like 165 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: a woman, like not a woman. I mean yeah, I 166 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: mean I feel more mature than I've ever felt. Like 167 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: you're the adult here, so and then now I'm acting 168 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: like one. So so literally, when you say calm and 169 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: when you say that you're mature, can you share with us. 170 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: What does it actually feel like? Because you're saying that, 171 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: you know, two years ago, before we started the work, 172 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 1: it was one way of being and then something happened. 173 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: We can talk about what actually happened. But now there's 174 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: a different experience of being on the planet that you have, Yeah, 175 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: say more about what that feels. It's like everything's much brighter, 176 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: like the trees and the leaves, and like being outside 177 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:10,559 Speaker 1: is is much more vibrant. I feel like, uh elevated, 178 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: but not in an arrogant way. I feel like calm. 179 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: I appreciate everyone a lot more. I think when I 180 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: started seeing you after the election, I had lost my 181 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: faith in everything and now and everybody, Like I thought 182 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: everybody was unreliable, nobody could we could count on. And 183 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:29,319 Speaker 1: then now I feel like I have faith in everybody, 184 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: Like even in people I don't like or are drawn to, 185 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: I kind of can see, Oh, everyone has goodness. People 186 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: who do bad things aren't necessarily bad people. They're lost, 187 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: like I realized I was lost, and so like getting 188 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: back on the track I think is I think I 189 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: see everything. I could go outside and sit on my 190 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: balcony like I did this morning, in silence, without music, 191 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: without news, without TV, and just think about my day. 192 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: And also, this is what's so important, is like rough alection, 193 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: like the time to think, the time you allow yourself 194 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: to think about the things you've done and the things 195 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,959 Speaker 1: you're going to do is so underrated and undervalued, or 196 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: was with regard to my own you know, my own self, 197 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: So it's much more calm. What wran, Why don't you 198 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,959 Speaker 1: chimm in right now? And excuse me for my voice. 199 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: I lost it because I've been talking about myself for 200 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: so many weeks in a row. I definitely think that 201 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: there was almost an instantaneous change from her sessions with 202 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: you coming home. It was immediately much like softer, more 203 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: thoughtful in her response time um and I guess that 204 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: was the biggest immediate change. And then over the last 205 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: year we've seen how she applies that in other ways. 206 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: So it wouldn't just be with me, to be with 207 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: other people in the house or her friends, or when 208 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: we're out places. We've gone on trips together, and I 209 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: see her being thoughtful about how she's going to respond 210 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 1: in the time she's going to take, so it's not 211 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: just like a knee jerk reaction to something She's feeling 212 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: now and before her going to therapy, it was easy 213 00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: for me to rationalize those because I'm a lot like 214 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:01,079 Speaker 1: her in that way. I have a very short fuse. 215 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: Things irritate me, and the irritate me to a hundred, 216 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: like there's no middle ground. Yeah, I don't like the 217 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: same question twice, like I'm like, fuck you if somebody 218 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: did that. I had no patience for any for anything right, like, 219 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: don't waste my time, You've already asked, let's move on. 220 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,079 Speaker 1: And that's how I was. So when she would get 221 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,559 Speaker 1: like that, I could see myself in that and acknowledge, 222 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: like I know how she's feeling. She's frustrated, or if 223 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: it was technology, if it was someone around her, it 224 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: was that she was getting mad at herself, not necessarily 225 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: at the situation. It was like, why can't I control 226 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: how I'm feeling? Like I don't want to feel like this. 227 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 1: And it wasn't until actually a few months ago, probably 228 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: she was. She was so caught up in herself that 229 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:39,719 Speaker 1: I had to step away from being the assistant and 230 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: look at her as someone I care about and say, like, 231 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: your wound very tight? Are you okay? Like she was 232 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 1: standing there with her shoulders up to her ears, and 233 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: I could just tell like something wasn't right, Like she 234 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 1: had to take a minute to be like, oh, someone 235 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 1: else is acknowledging this in me now, like I don't 236 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: know what's wrong, like this person was after I spilled 237 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: a YETI this is the yetti of ice on myself, 238 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: Like driving down the driveway, it fell all over my 239 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,199 Speaker 1: lap and I lost my ship. And I was on 240 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: a video app with him talking to him, so he 241 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: saw it happened and he saw me like really lose 242 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: my ship. But there's also a moment in that video 243 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: where when it gets done, after the initial uh, you know, frustration, 244 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 1: we'll be live streaming this video so everybody can enjoy it. Yeah, 245 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: that's good. Um, But there there's a moment at the 246 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 1: end where she's like why can't anything ever just go right? 247 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: And that's something I say to myself, like why is 248 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: everything difficult? Like why can't just put this cup in 249 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: the holder and it not fly out of the fucking car, 250 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: Like that's something that happens to everyone, but it feels 251 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: like it's only happening to you. And so when it 252 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: got done, she was like calming down and she had 253 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:39,319 Speaker 1: to do that for herself, Like she had to pull 254 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: over and breathe. And it's those moments where I'm like, 255 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: therapy helps not just you know, people who have gone 256 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: through extreme trauma, but people who feel out of control 257 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: because there's so much going on nowadays that they have 258 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: to take a moment to stop themselves and breathe. And 259 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: that's been a huge, you know change, I think, fantastic, fantastic. 260 00:12:57,720 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: You know, there's so much to say about, you know, 261 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: how these changes came about what do they really mean 262 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: in terms of, let's say your brain and what's changing 263 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: in your brain. Because the brain continues to grow throughout 264 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 1: the lifespan, and when you have a certain kind of 265 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: focus of attention that therapy can provide and meditation can provide, 266 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: it actually changes the brain in some really helpful ways. 267 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,719 Speaker 1: And so it isn't just like a temporary change. It's 268 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: actually changing the structure of your brain to allow you 269 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,599 Speaker 1: to have the mind, which in part is related to 270 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: the brain, is not the same as the brain, but 271 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: allow your mind to have the spaciousness. People call it presence, 272 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: you might call it mindfulness, you could call it just 273 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: open awareness. But this idea is that you're feeling from 274 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: the inside and Brandon, you're seeing from the outside what 275 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: those changes actually involve, and they're calming and they're maturing, 276 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: and they give you the sense of flexibility. And there's 277 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: all sorts of other positive things we can talk about 278 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: that are likely going on in your body, like reduction 279 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: and stress, improvement of cardiovascular functions, actually a reduction in inflammation, 280 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 1: improvement in the mune system, and even there's an enzyme 281 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: called telomerase that repairs the ends of your chromosomes. And 282 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: when you have the presence you're experiencing Chelsea and that 283 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: you're witnessing branded, you actually optimize that enzyme, so it 284 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: repairs the ends of your chromosomes, kind of like if 285 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: you have a shoe lace and you have that cap 286 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: on the shoe lace, it allows you to put it 287 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: through the hole in the shoe. Well, when you have 288 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: the caps on, chromosomes get whittled down from stress or aging, 289 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: then what happens is the chromosomes your DNA aren't able 290 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: to help the cells function or reproduce. They get sick 291 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: and die, and you get sick and die. So actually, 292 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: mental presence, where you're experiencing now optimizes an enzyme that's 293 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: going to help repair the ends of your chromosomes and 294 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: slow the aging process. Okay, well, I think that's all 295 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: you need to really cares about, especially in this town. 296 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: But Dana does seem like what you say. And a 297 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: lot of what Chelsea remances in the book is the 298 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: identification awareness modification. What is the acronym that you use? 299 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: A yeah, and we came up with that together. You 300 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: may think I had that before, but I'm telling you, Chelsea, 301 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: being in therapy, let's say our relationship, it changes me. 302 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: So we're talking right and something comes up and I'm thinking, 303 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: what can I say now so you can remember this? 304 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: And that's the first time the I am acronym came 305 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: up was in that moment between you and me, and 306 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: so I would think of it as we created it. 307 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: Now you love the word way too. It's not just see. 308 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: This is something I need to be reminded of because 309 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: at first, with self care, self help, self awareness, you 310 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: want to get better at being you, you want to 311 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: be a better person. But then you become very self 312 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: absorbed in that trying to be a better person. It 313 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: can become self involved and self absorbed, and the very 314 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: thing you're trying to get away from is to be 315 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: less self involved. And then so I understand it takes 316 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: a certain amount of time that you have to focus 317 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: on yourself to get healthy. And then after that, how 318 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: do you you know when you you talk about other 319 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: people and your community and the rest of the world, 320 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: because I don't want to be about me. I want 321 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: to be about everybody else as a collective. Um. I 322 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: do feel like the therapy there isn't and there is 323 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: an aspect of me that feels like, especially with all 324 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: the stuff I'm listening to and everybody I'm reading right now, 325 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: which is all about mindfulness and being present, it feels 326 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: like you can get to be like a spiritual narcissist. Yeah, 327 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: you know this is such an important point. So you 328 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: just said it so beautifully. I'll just if it's okay 329 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: with both young going to repeat what you just said. Um, 330 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: and I know you don't like repetition. I get myself 331 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: ready for Chelsea's reactions. So here's what you just said 332 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: so beautifully. That some people interpret, whether it's therapy or meditation, 333 00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: as kind of some self indulgent, you know, self reinforcing 334 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: thing that's all about me, me, me, me when actually 335 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: the it's the surprise reality that when you dive into 336 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: let's start with therapy, when you take the time to 337 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: focus on your inner feelings, your inner sensations, so this 338 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,199 Speaker 1: would be the sensations of your body, which are the 339 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 1: origin of emotions. And then emotions have not just the 340 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 1: bodily sensations, but they also have the meaning that's up 341 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: in your higher part of your brain. So we talk 342 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: about body sensations. Be aware of what's happening right now. 343 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: Like in therapy, Chelsea, sometimes I would say to you, 344 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: please stop talking. Maybe sometimes I didn't say please, but 345 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: please stop talking and just be with what your body 346 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 1: is feeling. And there's a reason for that. It wasn't 347 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: just like, oh, this is kind of just what I 348 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: feel like doing. No to slow down and just let 349 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 1: the body speak to you. Because you actually have a 350 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: brain around your intestines and a brain around your heart. 351 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: The first brains are your heart and your intestinal brain. 352 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: The headbrain came next. It's your third brain. But up 353 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 1: in that third brain, your headbrain, you also have autobiographical memory, 354 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: where things like the death of your brother will have 355 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: a certain kind of meaning the impact that happened. Then 356 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: when you were nine, and all the ways in which 357 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: that then goes back and as you change, what your 358 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: body is feeling like and ache in your heart because 359 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: of that incredible loss of chet. Right. So now you 360 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: can't be aware of that as the nine year olds 361 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: too much, especially because no one's supporting it, and so 362 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: the comfort zone of I'm not going to feel my 363 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 1: heart gets embedded in the way the head brain functions. Right, 364 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 1: So at that moment in therapy when I say to you, Chelsea, 365 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 1: please stop talking, the talking is from your left hemisphere right, 366 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 1: which is so interesting, a lot of word word where 367 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,439 Speaker 1: And you're unbelievably smart. I'm just gonna say it. So, 368 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 1: you're really, really bright, and your left brain has got 369 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 1: incredible ideas and thoughts, and you're amazing with language. But 370 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: autobiographical memories in the right side of the brain dominantly, 371 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: and it's the right side of the brain that takes 372 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 1: in the signals from the body. So while both sides 373 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 1: of the brain are emotional, it's the right that's more 374 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: about the tender emotions of our social connections and what 375 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 1: the body is feeling. The left is more about I 376 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: want to control when I'm feeling the right is just 377 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: feeling it and not be in control of it. Right, 378 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: They're both important. And where does your ego lie and 379 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: your right or your left? You know, that word ego, 380 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: as we've talked about, you know, can be used differently 381 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 1: by different people. So Freud used the word ego to 382 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: put it in between the id which would be kind 383 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: of lower structures in the brain if you want to 384 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: put them in the brain, and the super ego, whch 385 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 1: would be your conscience, and the ego is like in 386 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: between working things out. Other people like a car toole 387 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: and others use ego more like um, you know, it's 388 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,640 Speaker 1: all about the separate self versus I'm as my wonderful 389 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: colleague Auto Charmer talks about it, you know, an ego 390 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: view versus an eco view where you realize you're part 391 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: of a system. So that's another way of using the 392 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: term ego. So you know, that's probably an area of 393 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: the brain that's called the default mode that's on both sides. 394 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: And when you sit in a scanner, for example, and 395 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 1: people say, okay, don't do anything, just wait and you're 396 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: in this big old scanner, well, it's these mid line areas, 397 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: the middle that are in the front and the back 398 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: if you want to know the names of the medial 399 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: prefrontal cortex and the posterior singular cortex and other areas. 400 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: But just think about it in the middle and so 401 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: left and right. Middle is busy, busy, busy. Me me, me, 402 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: me me. And by the way, what do you think 403 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: of me? Oh, and you think that of me? Well, 404 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: this is what I think of you, and this is 405 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 1: what I think of me and all this stuff. So 406 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 1: it's the midline area. It's a good area, it's a 407 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:41,120 Speaker 1: great area. But when it's overly active, you get anxiety, 408 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: self obsession, depression. And if that's anywhere where the way 409 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: you're using ego, that's probably quote how it is functioning 410 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: in the brain. So the good news about this this 411 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: all these practices, both psychotherapy, especially mindfless meditation, help that 412 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: default mode become less self pre occupied. Now here's coming 413 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: to what I started with, which is the amazing things 414 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: you said. When people come for therapy or when they 415 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: do really powerful forms of reflect a practice called meditation. Meditation, 416 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: by the way, just means training the mind. Ironically, they 417 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: seem like self indulgent things. But when you can take 418 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 1: let's say, your life story that has a blockage in it, 419 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: and I call it an incoherent narrative, you know, And 420 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: there's lots of ways we can talk about that, but 421 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 1: the bottom line is when your life story has got 422 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: a blockage in it, you need to do the work 423 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: to work on the blockage. And ironically, when you deal 424 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: and heal with that blockage, you come to realize that 425 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: who you are and that word self is a tricky word, 426 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: but the self expand so you realize, yes, you're in 427 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: a body, but you're also connected to other people and nature, 428 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: and so it's not going from me to we where 429 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: you have what's sometimes called the spiritual bypass. You go, 430 00:21:58,720 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: I don't I'm not going to deal with my tra 431 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: almost let's just go to the collective. No. I like 432 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: to use the word we, M W E because you 433 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: want to have a coherent narrative of your own life history. 434 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: You want to know where you sit in terms of 435 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: a history, and sometimes racial issues and gender issues and 436 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 1: religious issues, those are all important about the me. Then 437 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: we we need to realize we're also deeply interconnected. And 438 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: it's that m that helps you see I can do 439 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: my meditation to take care of my presence and really 440 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: open up this mental space. And as I do that, 441 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 1: and as you did really in an emotional way, people 442 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: couldn't see it. But I can see it in your 443 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,360 Speaker 1: eyes when you're saying, you know, I see the positive 444 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: and all these other people, even people I don't like 445 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: or don't share their inferring political views, I can see 446 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: there's something positive and they may be lost. And that's 447 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: not the way you used to talk, right, So then 448 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 1: you come to realize, Wow, I'm connected to other people 449 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: and there's something positive in everyone, and I'm connected to 450 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: nature too, and this is the wee aspect. And so 451 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: the irony is that doing the reflection of meditation and 452 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: the work of therapy freeze you up to realize the 453 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: deep interconnection and love we all share, which is just 454 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 1: such a nice, nicer way for me to live. Like, 455 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 1: I mean, a lot of people already know this, and 456 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,199 Speaker 1: a lot of people probably don't, but for me, I didn't. 457 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: I always thought awakening was just like you know, it 458 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: was just like Vagina talk like it was just a 459 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 1: part of like I was like meditation universe. Blah blah blah. 460 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: I've said this all before. Okay, We're gonna take a 461 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: quick break and we'll be right back. Brandon. Don't you 462 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: think you need to start meditating after talking about this, 463 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: I still haven't committed. I do think it's becoming more 464 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: accessible though, and the way that there are so many 465 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: meditation apps now that will really guide you through the experience, 466 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:52,479 Speaker 1: so you don't have to sit there and just think, like, 467 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: how the fund do you meditate? Do you just sit 468 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 1: here for a few minutes and try to not think 469 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 1: about anything? You know, these apps like you like Headspace, Yeah, 470 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: like that space because I just yeah, I don't find 471 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: him annoying. And that's the first thing is you have 472 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: to find something that doesn't annoy If you're me, you 473 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: have to find something that doesn't annoy you. And a 474 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: lot of it's like the time. I don't know, Dan, 475 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: you can speak to this, but a lot of it's 476 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:12,439 Speaker 1: the time of day. Some of it works better for 477 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 1: people in the morning. Or what about meditating now, I'm stoned, Dan, 478 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: because I find my meditations. When I'm stoned, I get 479 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: a I'm more excited to meditate, And when I'm stoned, 480 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 1: I have great creative meditations where like all this stuff 481 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: comes to me that I write down after I'm done. 482 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 1: You know, anytime you con meditate, that's great. So when 483 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: you're stoned, that's good. And that's that's that part in 484 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 1: brandon your question about like when and stuff. You know, 485 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,959 Speaker 1: there's a lot of interesting things. There's one thing just 486 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: to say is, you know, there's ancient contemplative practices that 487 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: are have been around for twenty years dred years, you know, 488 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: on systematic ways of training the mind called meditation. Then 489 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: there's in the last oh gosh, you know, about twenty years, 490 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,639 Speaker 1: there's been systematic science studying some of those ancient practices 491 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 1: and they've come up with three things at least that 492 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 1: are kind of foundational to do in meditation. And those 493 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: three are easy to remember. One is and you've described 494 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: all of them. One is, you know, learning to focus attention. 495 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 1: So even if that's just for like a minute where 496 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 1: you say I'm gonna focus on you know, let's say, um, 497 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: a rock in front of me, or I'm going to 498 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: focus on my breath if that feels safe and comfortable, 499 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: or you know, my toes, whatever it is a minute, 500 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do that, and when I get distracted, I'll 501 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: return to the focus that I've chosen, and whatever it 502 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: is the breath has got some interesting positive things because 503 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: it's a cyclical thing in and out, in and out. 504 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: But for some people who have been abused, for example, 505 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: it can be pretty scary um and evoke all sorts 506 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:53,880 Speaker 1: of memories in the body, and so they can get 507 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: a panic attack just by focusing on the breath. So 508 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: if you ever do any app or anything, you know that, 509 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: Chelsea and I talked about it with Brandon. You're here, 510 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: we're talking about it. If you start doing something, be 511 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 1: very sensitive to your own specific needs, you know. But 512 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: the idea of that presence you're talking about, Chelsea, is 513 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: to be able to sit in awareness. And you know, 514 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 1: I think of it like a wheel, but like the 515 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: hub of the wheel, and if all the things you 516 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: can be aware of are on the rim and awareness 517 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: itself is in the hub, to sit in that hub 518 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: and be able to say, bring it on. If there's 519 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,120 Speaker 1: something that's giving me a panic attack, I'll stay away 520 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,199 Speaker 1: different from now. Maybe I need to write in a 521 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: journal or go to therapy. I need to work on 522 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: why that's giving me a panic attack, Because there should 523 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: be no part of your body that gives you a 524 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: panic attack. If it does, it's a little signal like 525 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: maybe there's a little work to do, and don't bypass it, 526 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: use it as an invitation to do some work. Yeah, 527 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 1: I think that's the thing we always want to get 528 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: rid of our self doubt are bad thoughts or I did. 529 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: I always thought, oh, how do I get these thoughts 530 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: out of my mind? And it's like the only way 531 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: to get those thoughts out of your mind as to 532 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: quiet your mind and accept those thoughts instead of trying 533 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: to reject them. Exactly well, and you know, the research 534 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: is really really clear. Is exactly what you said. Acceptance, 535 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: let's take that exam. And resistance to change also is 536 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,679 Speaker 1: something I've learned to not resist change, to not resist 537 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: a situation that doesn't work out the way you want 538 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: it to work out, to accept it and to move 539 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: through it, and in a like, you know, in in 540 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: a way that is to not fight change all the time, 541 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: because you know, that's I think was one of my 542 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: biggest wake ups is to not resist to go, oh, 543 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: this friendship is shifting or this situation is changing. Instead 544 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: of being no no, no, no, no no no, that 545 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: can't happen. That can't happen, It can happen. It's going 546 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 1: to happen, go with the flow of it instead of 547 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: against the flow. Let's talk about that because first of all, 548 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 1: and I'm not going to do this too much, but 549 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: if you want me to do it more, I can. 550 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: But two researchers, David Chrisswell is one of his colleagues, 551 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: as Steve Hayes and colleagues have both shown in this 552 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: powerful way that acceptance, just like you're saying, is the 553 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: key element for why these practices work. So what you're saying, 554 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: Chelsea has got tons of science, great science backing it 555 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: up as as usual. So the acronym I'd like to 556 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: use as you know, Okay, do you like Half the 557 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 1: people like them, half the people hate them. I don't 558 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: know what to do because I'm an addict. It's actually 559 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: an addiction I have. I need your help for that. 560 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 1: They just come to me like the I am that 561 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: came to us. So coal means curious, open accepting. There's 562 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 1: the acceptance and loving right. And so even when you 563 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: look at these three things, like the first is you're 564 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: focusing attention. That's the first of these three pillars. The 565 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: second is your opening awareness. And this is the idea 566 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: of acceptance because if you say you know something, and 567 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: both you, Brandon and Chelsea kind of show elements of this, 568 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: and Chelsea, I think from before you could really resonate within. 569 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: Brandon may still be there with you. You know, we 570 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: go around life and the brain is called an anticipation machine, 571 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: so it's always getting ready for the next thing. Now 572 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: why does it do that? That's how we survive. If 573 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: you're just completely in the present moment without getting ready 574 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: for next, then when that saber tooth tiger comes because 575 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: you didn't smell it or didn't hear it around the corner, 576 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: you're dead. You don't make babies, you don't pass on 577 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: the trade. So the brain is just naturally getting ready 578 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: for next. That's what it does. It anticipates next. So 579 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: for some people, depending on their personality, and personality is 580 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: kind of something that grows out of both your attachment 581 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: experiences and you're primarily genetically determined temperament, so we can 582 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: talk about that later, but temperament you're born with. Attachment 583 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: experiences are kind of your relationship experience in your family 584 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: and experiences in general combined to make your personality. So 585 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: for those two reasons, some people have super strong filters 586 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: getting them ready for next. And let's just call that expectation. 587 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: This is how the world should be. You know, your 588 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 1: cup is not supposed to fall out of its holder 589 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: in the car. Let's say that brand for the example 590 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: you gave. So let's say you're a person. In your brain, 591 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: your head brain, you know that the way you work 592 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: through your childhood, the way your temperament combined with your 593 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: attachment formed your personality. So in your personality you've got 594 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,959 Speaker 1: really strong expectations. That's great. You're a big feelings if 595 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: Chelsea is correct, your sensitive you know, and your emotional 596 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: and that's beautiful, and you can have high expectations. So 597 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: what this means is that your brain is always getting 598 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: ready for next. And it says cups should not be 599 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: out of their holder in a car. Well, now the 600 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: car bumps. The cup didn't exactly fit in there, and 601 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: now it falls out right. Not a huge deal, but 602 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: it's a great example. You gave that, right, So now 603 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: in your brain what happens is holy shit, this is 604 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: not right. The world is falling apart. The way I 605 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: comport myself in the world is I expect what is 606 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: supposed to happen, and when those things aren't happening, then 607 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: what should have been and is not there, I am 608 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: now shooting on myself, right, does it feel like that 609 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 1: you're smiling? Yeah, because everything you're saying is so reflected 610 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: in my actions. Let's here, let's here, Well, my reaction 611 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: to that is anger, which is why it's so easy 612 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: for me to see that in her her adjustments, because 613 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: if it's not done the way I think it should be, 614 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: and as an assistant, I have an opinion on how 615 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: everything should be done at all times. So yeah, it's 616 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: it's normally like a very quick this is not the 617 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: way it should be done, and how I want it 618 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: done is the way it should happen. So then if 619 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: it's not done that way, it is an immediate irritation, anger, frustration, 620 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,719 Speaker 1: But it's normally not the other person's fault. It's not 621 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: you know, that's me, Like, that's something I have to 622 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: reflect on after the fact, even though normally I've already 623 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: yelled at someone by that time. So exactly, so let's 624 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: go with that. So anger, there are three huge, you know, 625 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: systems below your higher partnerment, your court takes. Anger is 626 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: one of them. Will talk about the others later, but 627 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: anger is an emotion. It's really constructive. Actually, it's when 628 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: something right is happening. It's the you know, an emotion 629 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: that we can get to the big discussion that. But 630 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: emotion evokes motion and it's all about meaning. So in 631 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: that moment the cup comes out of its holder. The 632 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: emotion is what you know. The meaning of that is 633 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 1: it wasn't right, and now the activating state in your 634 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: whole body, called anger is let me right the wrong right. 635 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 1: It's like that. So because the shoulds, the expectations, pre 636 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: existing ideas of how things should be, those are called 637 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: judgments or something. You know, you are living this life 638 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: filtering everything through this kind of cone, if you will, 639 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: like a little filter, a little funnel that says, was 640 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: this thing is supposed to happen or not? Because the 641 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: way everything is gonna be okay is I've got this 642 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 1: whole grid of expectations in the world. So what Chelsea 643 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: is inviting is to consider that acceptance means you have 644 00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: a spaciousness of awareness that's beneath all those judgments, those expectations, 645 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: those should That just says the cup came out, I'm 646 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: really mad that it's spilled. I think I'll get a 647 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: smaller cup, or you know, I'll get one of those 648 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: rubber things to put in the holder to hold it 649 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: more tightly, or whatever you do. You can even feel 650 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: the anger arise but doesn't burst out of you. You're 651 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: not yelling at people you know, or yelling at yourself, 652 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: And there's a clarity. So it's not that it gets 653 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 1: rid of the emotions. It kind of like creates a space. 654 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: I'd like to think of it, like if you can 655 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 1: imagine awareness as like a container of water. So some 656 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: people have a container of awareness that's like the size 657 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: of an espress. Soak up, and let's say a challenge 658 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: like the cup coming out of the container is like 659 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: a tablespoon of salt. Right if your container is only 660 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: the size of an espresso cup and Life dumps the 661 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: tablespoon of salt in there, oh my god, it's too 662 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: salty to drink. But imagine if you could do like 663 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: Chelsea has done, these practices and working through your narrative 664 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: to make a coherent instead of blocked where awareness now 665 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: becomes a hundred gallons in size. Now Life shoves a 666 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: tablespoon of salt at you as a challenge, and what 667 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: does it taste? Like when it's stirred up in the 668 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 1: hundred gallons. Not much, it's fresh water. That's what this does. 669 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 1: That's why you're seeing a change in Chelsea, because Chelsea, 670 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:22,800 Speaker 1: you have expanded the container of your awareness. So it's curious, open, accepting, 671 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 1: and loving. It's cold, right, it's really cold. And there 672 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 1: you go. And now what you're doing is you've built 673 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 1: your focused attention to do this, your opening awareness. And 674 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: the third pillar is you're developing this loving intention, this 675 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: kind intention. And it's amazing that this naturally arises and 676 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: you can speak to Chelsea, how does it feel each 677 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 1: day to have this access to a feeling of tenderness 678 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 1: and love for not just your inner life, but people 679 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,760 Speaker 1: in the world around you. Yeah, I feel much more mature. 680 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: I feel like adults ish for the first time in 681 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 1: my life. Like I feel centered and I feel grounded. 682 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: I feel very much in control of every situation without 683 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: inserting myself. I feel I'm not where I'm going yet. 684 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: I understand that this is just part of the journey, 685 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: but I know that, Like, oh, I feel so nonreactive 686 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 1: to so many things. And it happens all day long 687 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: where somebody will say something to me and I'm like, 688 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: what would old you do? And what is the new 689 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 1: you do? And and the answer is always like, don't react. 690 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: There's no need for it. And half of the time, 691 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 1: I when I think about it the next day, it's 692 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: not even necessary to respond or react. You know. Obviously 693 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,359 Speaker 1: I'm not perfect. I screw up a lot too, and 694 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 1: sometimes I do react to things. But I definitely have 695 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 1: a sense of awareness now, like I'm aware of my 696 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 1: behavior before I do it, when I'm doing it, after 697 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: I'm doing it, not just maybe before. In beautiful you know, 698 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 1: in the you know, in the science literature, here's what 699 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: we would say about the credible thing you just said. 700 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: Two big things. One, there's something called meta awareness. In science, 701 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: we use the letters M, E, T A to talk 702 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: about a thing on itself. So like meta cognition is 703 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 1: thinking about thinking. Meta awareness is you're aware of awareness, 704 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: so you're aware of the contents. A lot of people 705 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 1: don't have that. You've now developed that, so it's the first. 706 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: But I do feel very self absorbed with the amount 707 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 1: of time I spend thinking about how I respond and react. 708 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,320 Speaker 1: That makes me feel like I am well a little 709 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 1: too self involved, I know, So Chelsea, I know how 710 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: hard you can be on yourself. And this is a 711 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,319 Speaker 1: good example of a moment where you may not appreciate this, 712 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 1: but the changes you've made in this short amount of 713 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 1: time are huge, and so it's new. So you're comparing 714 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 1: what would the old me do? What's the new me doing? 715 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: And so it's natural to you know, be very aware 716 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: of that. And as time goes on, it's going to 717 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: become more you know, natural, and you're not gonna have 718 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 1: to do that kind of reflection. Now. It's fine and 719 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 1: you don't need to beat up on yourself. The second 720 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: thing I want to say about the science of this 721 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 1: is there are two big brain states that we can 722 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: be in. And you know, if you want to do 723 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 1: the exercise to evoke this, we can certainly do it 724 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 1: if you want. But one is a receptive state. The 725 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: other is a reactive state. So you said earlier, I 726 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 1: realized I don't need to react. Reaction usually involves four 727 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 1: fs of survival kind of reactivity. That's fighting, back, fleeing, freezing, 728 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: meaning tightening up your muscles and being temporarily not able 729 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,359 Speaker 1: to move so you figure out if you're gonna fight 730 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 1: or flee. Usually, but the fourth F is fainting, or 731 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 1: some people call it feigning death where you collapse out 732 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: of helplessness. Now, all four of those fs are what 733 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: our mammalian nervous system has to deal with threats. So 734 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: when you use the word reactivity, I don't know if 735 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 1: you meant this with this kind of specificity, but before 736 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,359 Speaker 1: you and I work together, I would bet you that 737 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 1: if we could get inside your nervous system, you literally 738 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: were in reactivity mode. You know, things were a threat 739 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: to your expectations for all sorts of reasons you can 740 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 1: get into if you want, but that you had a 741 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 1: high like brand and a high expectation filter, and so 742 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,399 Speaker 1: when life didn't fit the way you thought it should go, 743 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 1: you didn't just say, oh, that's frustrating. No, you got 744 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,920 Speaker 1: into reactivity, fighting, fleeing, freezing, fainting. You know, all these 745 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,320 Speaker 1: fps get activated. It's very exhausting for the nervous system, 746 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 1: for the whole body to being a reaction to threat 747 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 1: mode all the time. So the word reactivity for clinical 748 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 1: use and scientific use is used for this notion of 749 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:51,879 Speaker 1: a state that is activated when a threat. Is there 750 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,880 Speaker 1: a threat to one's own integrity in life, that's in 751 00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: very um contrasting distinction. That's different from you know, a 752 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,440 Speaker 1: receptive state, right right, which was what it felt like 753 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 1: after the election, especially reactive. Okay, well this sounds like 754 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:14,799 Speaker 1: a good time to take a break. Uh what can 755 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 1: you tell me what you thought when you met me? 756 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,160 Speaker 1: What was your impression? Could you tell that I was 757 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 1: really stuck and in pain? I mean, you are a professional, 758 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 1: so I would assume, yeah, you know, it's so interesting 759 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 1: when I was asked to do your show, just to 760 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,399 Speaker 1: start there. You know, I'm really busy writing books and 761 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 1: editing books. I don't have to have seen my show 762 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 1: or know who? Right, Well, that was what I want 763 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,719 Speaker 1: to say. So I felt that my my assistant was 764 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 1: madly in love with you, and she said, you got 765 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 1: to go on the show. I said, really, they said, 766 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,840 Speaker 1: she said yeah. I said, okay, so it's on my calendar. 767 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,719 Speaker 1: I don't look much. She just tells me what to do. 768 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 1: And I showed up there and I was actually teaching 769 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 1: another class in another country in the other room, and 770 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 1: then I come out there. So then, so the first 771 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,280 Speaker 1: time we met was when you're interviewing me about the brain. 772 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,280 Speaker 1: I actually had no idea what we were doing. Scepted 773 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 1: I was in a school, and that's cool. I love 774 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 1: schools and love kids. So, um, when you're asking me 775 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 1: the questions about the brain, first of all, I thought 776 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: you'd some really smart questions. Second of all, um, you 777 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,319 Speaker 1: told me what we're going to talk about. But then 778 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: it started getting a little focused more on this one 779 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,400 Speaker 1: issue of drugs and the brain and brain and drugs 780 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,200 Speaker 1: and at what age, you know, do you really screw 781 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,320 Speaker 1: up your brain? And so I was looking at you, 782 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: you know, and so for me, professional and personal you know, 783 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,160 Speaker 1: have to be distinguished. But in the end, we're all 784 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,640 Speaker 1: just people. And so I know you were doing a show, 785 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 1: a professional show, so I'm looking at you as a 786 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,279 Speaker 1: person who's doing a professional show, and I'm going, wow, 787 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,839 Speaker 1: you know, there's something up here. I don't know what 788 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,359 Speaker 1: it is, you know, but whatever. And so I think 789 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,719 Speaker 1: I joked with you about something, and I said, you know, 790 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 1: do you want to talk more about this? You know? 791 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,120 Speaker 1: And I think you even said, you know, I'm the 792 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 1: funny one, whom or not you or something something that 793 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,280 Speaker 1: was really cute whatever. So I just thought, that's fun. Whatever, 794 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 1: And then the show was over and I said goodbye, 795 00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 1: and that was it. I didn't know whatever hear from 796 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,840 Speaker 1: you again or to you again. So when my assistant said, um, 797 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,719 Speaker 1: Brandon called, and you know, Chelsea's assistant is setting up 798 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:12,239 Speaker 1: this appointment, I said, okay, And so I guess it 799 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,000 Speaker 1: didn't surprise me because it seems like things you want 800 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,799 Speaker 1: to talk about more and um, you know, as you 801 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,080 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, you could get piste off at people were 802 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,759 Speaker 1: irritated or whatever. So I figured, Okay, I guess I 803 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 1: didn't irritate you. You know, so that's kind of night 804 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,040 Speaker 1: that felt like a nice thing and didn't irritate you 805 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,520 Speaker 1: enough to say, you know whatever. So when you showed 806 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,400 Speaker 1: up and now we're at our first session. You know, 807 00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,719 Speaker 1: therapy is like one of the most amazing things to 808 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:40,000 Speaker 1: be in because you bring your whole self as a 809 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:44,120 Speaker 1: therapist to sit down and let's take that first session 810 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 1: you and I had. You know, I'm there as a 811 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,239 Speaker 1: human being. We've had this small encounter before. You're now 812 00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,279 Speaker 1: sitting in the office in the chair across from the 813 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,279 Speaker 1: chair I'm sitting and you're a human being, and now 814 00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:01,759 Speaker 1: we're sitting there right And so for me as a therapist, 815 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:06,440 Speaker 1: it's this moment where perhaps because you know I've been 816 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,279 Speaker 1: like obsessed with the idea of what's the mind and 817 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,040 Speaker 1: what's mental health and what's healing all about for all 818 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 1: these decades. For me, the mind now that's created between 819 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 1: the two of us is something that I couldn't create 820 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:20,719 Speaker 1: a loan and you couldn't create a loan. So we're 821 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,839 Speaker 1: doing this together. So it's really the beginning of a relationship. 822 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:30,160 Speaker 1: And in that relationship that was unfolding, I could feel um. 823 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,200 Speaker 1: And this addresses your question, a kind of pain that 824 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:34,960 Speaker 1: I had no idea what it was. I knew nothing 825 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,400 Speaker 1: about your history or anything, you know, except that you 826 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,799 Speaker 1: decided to come for that session, and so I could 827 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,759 Speaker 1: feel something was up. And as you probably know, this 828 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:45,719 Speaker 1: isn't gonna be a surprise to you. You do a 829 00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 1: lot of talking, or you did a lot of talking, 830 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:49,480 Speaker 1: and it was really fast. And I think maybe even 831 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,719 Speaker 1: that first session when I said to you, you know, 832 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:56,200 Speaker 1: please stop talking, not not in general, but about a 833 00:42:56,239 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 1: particular please stop talking, it was because because I know 834 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: a little bit about the brain. You know, um, it's 835 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,680 Speaker 1: like where attention goes, neural firing flows and neural connection grows. 836 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,600 Speaker 1: You had a whole bunch of left brain talk which 837 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:13,560 Speaker 1: is fine, and my left brain is able to keep 838 00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:16,120 Speaker 1: up with you whatever. Um. And then I want to 839 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,920 Speaker 1: invite your right brain into the therapy session, which means 840 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,239 Speaker 1: letting the left brain not shut up, but just take 841 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:29,800 Speaker 1: a moment to breathe. Let your right brain become more present, 842 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,120 Speaker 1: which doesn't have the words that the left brain has. 843 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,000 Speaker 1: It has some language, but not the kind of language 844 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,840 Speaker 1: of left has. And as I mentioned earlier, you know 845 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,840 Speaker 1: it's going to start getting you in touch with what 846 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:44,560 Speaker 1: your body is feeling, so bodily sensations and autobiographical memory, 847 00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,680 Speaker 1: whereas the left doesn't have direct access to those things. 848 00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 1: So by asking you to please take a pause from 849 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 1: all the talk, in that moment, I could feel you're 850 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:56,520 Speaker 1: asking me what I felt. I could feel there was 851 00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,400 Speaker 1: some some stuff up, and I had no idea you 852 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,360 Speaker 1: could have. I'm telling you, you could have absolutely said 853 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,839 Speaker 1: this is too weird or I like talking, screw you 854 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,759 Speaker 1: or whatever, and you could have not come back, you know, 855 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,400 Speaker 1: ever again. So I want to just really put it 856 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,880 Speaker 1: out to you that you had the courage to have 857 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:19,000 Speaker 1: some guy tell you to stop doing what your inclination was, 858 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:20,719 Speaker 1: which is to talk and make jokes and all the 859 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:22,960 Speaker 1: kind of stuff and for me to see how bright 860 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,000 Speaker 1: you are, how left brain strong you were, and how 861 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,080 Speaker 1: you needed to develop more of your right hemisphere. So 862 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 1: to me, it's all about a process called integration, which 863 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:34,239 Speaker 1: means honoring differences and promoting linkages. And it felt like 864 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:39,160 Speaker 1: the push to keep on talking and this reactivity had 865 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: a kind of left sided dominance. So the feeling inside 866 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,440 Speaker 1: of me was that there needed to be some integration 867 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,919 Speaker 1: in your life. You could call that healing, you could 868 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,440 Speaker 1: call it, you know, working on blockages, whatever words you 869 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,120 Speaker 1: want to use. But yes, I felt like something was up, 870 00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:58,439 Speaker 1: and I felt really, um ah, deeply moved that you 871 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,319 Speaker 1: wanted to come do something that was really difficult to do, 872 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:04,719 Speaker 1: which is to look inward at stuff. I didn't know 873 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:06,360 Speaker 1: what this stuff was going to be. I had no idea, 874 00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:08,279 Speaker 1: and I don't know if you did. Did you have 875 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,480 Speaker 1: some did you have? Why? Why did you come? I 876 00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:12,600 Speaker 1: just what didn't think of my life was working out 877 00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:14,719 Speaker 1: for me at that particular point. I was just too 878 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,720 Speaker 1: angry and I thought it was about Trump, and I realized, 879 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,560 Speaker 1: you know, that's not the root of my anger, that's 880 00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:24,799 Speaker 1: just a symptom. And I finally had something identifiable to 881 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,239 Speaker 1: put my anger on. So no, I didn't know that 882 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:28,919 Speaker 1: I was going to come in and like let it out. 883 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,879 Speaker 1: It just kind of happened naturally, which you know is normal. Okay, Well, 884 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:35,759 Speaker 1: thank you very much Dan for being here, and thank 885 00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,440 Speaker 1: you Brandon. We will be back next Thursday with a 886 00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:42,120 Speaker 1: brand new episode of Life Will Be the Death of Me. 887 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:44,759 Speaker 1: I have added some stand up tour dates to my 888 00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,200 Speaker 1: Life Will Be the Death of Me sit down comedy tour. 889 00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:51,440 Speaker 1: I'm coming to St. Louis, Minneapolis, Nashville, New Orleans, Westbury, 890 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:57,920 Speaker 1: Long Island, Atlanta. So those are on sale now. And 891 00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,319 Speaker 1: what else, and don't forget your book is still sale? 892 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:05,040 Speaker 1: Oh yes, oh yes, oh so sexual Life will be 893 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:09,320 Speaker 1: the Death of Me. It's available wherever at your local bookseller. Hopefully, 894 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:11,200 Speaker 1: Life will Be the Death of Me as a production 895 00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,759 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, 896 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,920 Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 897 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:18,280 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.