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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Sportsman's Nation podcast network, brought to

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Speaker 1: you by Savage Arms, specifically the new shotgun from Savage

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Speaker 1: called the Renegage. Now, the Renegade is a badass shotgun

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Speaker 1: and it has a dual regulating inline valve gas system.

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Speaker 1: The patented self regulating gas system allows high power and

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Speaker 1: low power loads to cycle with the same consistency. This

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Speaker 1: means three inch magnums down to lower recoil two and

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Speaker 1: three quarter cartridges. If you want to find out more

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Speaker 1: information about the Savage Renegade, visit Savage arms dot com.

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Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukeleman. I'm the host of the

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Speaker 1: Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be your host into

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Speaker 1: the world of hunting the icon of the North American

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Speaker 1: Wilderness fair. We'll talk about tactics, gear conservation. We will

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Speaker 1: also bring you into some of the wild this country

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Speaker 1: on the planet Chasing Bear. On this podcast, we talk

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Speaker 1: about part two of the book, The North American Blah

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Speaker 1: Wildlife Conservation The lynch Pin of Relevance. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: this is a good podcast. Like we kind of got

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Speaker 1: about halfway through the book last time in episode seventy seven.

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Speaker 1: Two episodes ago and this time we kind of cover

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Speaker 1: the second half, So I think I think people will

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Speaker 1: enjoy the conversation. I had River Newcomb, Colby the bear

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Speaker 1: tech more ahead with me. Yeah. So, man, this stuff

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Speaker 1: is just so important that we know it. And you know,

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Speaker 1: this is just like a little little cheat sheet that

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Speaker 1: you can listen to and hopefully pick up a few

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Speaker 1: things that you'll remember. Okay, Um, Hey, spring bear season

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Speaker 1: is is is going on? Ma'am? Guys are posting pictures

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Speaker 1: of bears that they're killing. Uh. You know, we talk

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Speaker 1: about how the seasons are disrupted right now, but there's

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Speaker 1: lots of spring seasons going on in Idaho. Residents can

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Speaker 1: hunt my you know, lots of places people are hunting.

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Speaker 1: Season to be flexible, that's right, and so if you're hunting,

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Speaker 1: check out if you're if you're baiting bears, it makes

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Speaker 1: no sense for you not to be using some north

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Speaker 1: Woods bear products and some commercial scent. So check out

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Speaker 1: north Woods Bear Products dot net um look at if

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Speaker 1: you're a houndsman, we have a lot of houndsman listen

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Speaker 1: to this podcast. Hey, we ask you to be loyal

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Speaker 1: to the people that are being loyal to us. If

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Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast. The guys at DU Buddy Woodburry,

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Speaker 1: good guy. Hey, I want to make an announcement about DU.

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Speaker 1: They're starting a podcast. True story, Buddy Woodbury and the

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Speaker 1: guys at W Hunting Supply are starting a podcast. Episode

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Speaker 1: one is available now and it's an all hound podcast.

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Speaker 1: You know, are good friends at Houndsman XP have all

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Speaker 1: hound podcast. You hear us talk about them, and we'll

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Speaker 1: continue to talk about them now. Our buddies at W

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Speaker 1: have an all hound podcast as well, and so you

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Speaker 1: can check those guys out. And lastly, our friends at

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Speaker 1: the Western Bear Foundation they got a name drop inside

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Speaker 1: of this podcast and they has been a nonprofit hunting

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Speaker 1: conservation organization doing good things for wildlife. They are their

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Speaker 1: membership driven organization. And I hate to even tell people this,

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Speaker 1: but it's true. If you remember their organization, you get

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Speaker 1: bear hunting. Maxie Man. It's it's a it's a win

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Speaker 1: win for everybody. Yeah. Um so, Hey, the May June

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Speaker 1: issue of Baroni magazine is in the It's probably going

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Speaker 1: to be in the mail by the time this podcast

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Speaker 1: is sent out. It's hot in the press right now. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's a good issue. Oh man, I love the cover.

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Speaker 1: I can't wait for somebody to say something about the cover.

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Speaker 1: It's a non traditional cover. Yeah, magazine, I would say, so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not a bear. There is a bear in it

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Speaker 1: though there is, but you'll never guess what how the

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Speaker 1: bear is displayed and statistically. Yeah. So it's a good,

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Speaker 1: really good issue. Just excited about people getting it in

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Speaker 1: a subscribe to our magazine Bear Hunting Magazine. Uh, five

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Speaker 1: dollars a year you can get you get six issues

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Speaker 1: forty five for two years or three years for sixty dollars,

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Speaker 1: which that's man. Anything I do, I look for the

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Speaker 1: longest possible way that I cannot be harassed by them

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Speaker 1: trying to get me back. Yeah. I really like if

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Speaker 1: if there was a five year membership to some organization

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Speaker 1: that I like, I'd just be like, yeah, I'll do it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you should do that with us for it. So

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Speaker 1: onto the podcast. On the podcast the date, the date

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Speaker 1: is April the one, two thousand and twenty, and we're

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Speaker 1: at the global headquarters of Barony Magazine. Hey, just today

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Speaker 1: on my Facebook feed, I had a memory pop up

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Speaker 1: and there was a memory that two years ago in

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Speaker 1: I killed a turkey on public land in Arkansas, using isy,

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Speaker 1: yeah my mule. Yeah, you remember those pictures just just

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Speaker 1: two years ago. And uh that hunt was a super

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Speaker 1: cool hunt because I went into some pretty deep back

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Speaker 1: country for here in Arkansas on the Mule Sound. You know,

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Speaker 1: I left the truck at daylight basically and road mule

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Speaker 1: back into this area. And the whole time I was

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Speaker 1: I was al Hooton when it was appropriate early in

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Speaker 1: the morning, al Houghton, and then once it got like

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Speaker 1: past fly down time and like an hour in the daylight,

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Speaker 1: I would just I would just cut and cackle and

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Speaker 1: call we're using a diaphragm off the mule all the

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Speaker 1: way back into where I was wanting to go. When

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Speaker 1: I got back into about where I was wanting to go,

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Speaker 1: I had a trail camera that I had left through

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Speaker 1: the winter, and so you know, it was April, first

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Speaker 1: time I've been up there, and I checked the trail camera.

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Speaker 1: I had a little card reader deal, and the camera

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Speaker 1: died around April the first, but there was a long

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Speaker 1: beard in front of that camera. On March. Well, I

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Speaker 1: just kept going back in and got to about where

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Speaker 1: I thought turkeys might be tied up. The mule had

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Speaker 1: yet to hear a gobble. I hadn't heard a gobbler.

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Speaker 1: Tied up, the mule walked a hundred and fifty yards

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Speaker 1: the first time I called work, work, work, work, work, work,

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Speaker 1: turkey gobbles. I go into high speed, move forward about

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Speaker 1: forty yards, sit down, call one more time, he's closer.

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Speaker 1: Two minutes later, kill a gobbler. Walk back to the mule.

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Speaker 1: First time the mule has ever seen a gobbler. And

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Speaker 1: I was still training the mule, conditioning the mule to

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Speaker 1: haul game and stuff. She hadn't hauled a bearer by

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Speaker 1: that time. She had a hot deer, so I didn't

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Speaker 1: know how she's gonna act with a turkey. Anything unusual

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Speaker 1: with an equon animal has the potential to flip him out. Anything.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can walk up with a Walmart sack

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Speaker 1: in your hand, or a bag of oreos, which I've

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Speaker 1: never done. You know, presumably anything can flip them out. Well,

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Speaker 1: I walk up with this big old gobbler, which to

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Speaker 1: a mule would be a big stinky critter, and is

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Speaker 1: he just never batted an eye. And I had about

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Speaker 1: an eighteen inch piece of hair acord that I cut

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Speaker 1: off and I tied and made the loop between the

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Speaker 1: spur you know underneath above the spur, I tied it,

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Speaker 1: made a loop, tied it on the other spur, threw

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Speaker 1: it over that saddle horn, had a celebratory cup of

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Speaker 1: jet boil coffee and a yeah in a in a

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Speaker 1: private fist pump and a prayer of Thanksgiving, and headed

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Speaker 1: off the mountain happy as I could be. There. There

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Speaker 1: is killing a gobbler on a beautiful spring morning. There

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Speaker 1: is not a substitution for the feeling that that gives me.

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Speaker 1: Like I could kill a boone crocket buck, I could

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Speaker 1: kill a brown bear and it would not be the same.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying it would be worse or better. I'm

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Speaker 1: just saying it would not be the same. There is

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Speaker 1: a spot inside the human soul that is designed to

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Speaker 1: kill turkeys on beautiful spring mornings with no wind. If

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Speaker 1: there's wind, it messes it all up. And if they

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Speaker 1: don't gobble, it messes it all up. That's why you

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Speaker 1: don't want to just kill it turkey. You want to

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Speaker 1: kill it goblin turkey. There's a difference, big difference, and

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Speaker 1: there I rarely feel as accomplished is when I kill

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Speaker 1: a turkey resonates in the soul. It does, and I've

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Speaker 1: decided it lasts about forty eight hours. It lasts about

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Speaker 1: forty eight hours, and then you it's still holds its

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Speaker 1: value kind of like a you know, like a Toyota tacoma. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, holds its value after it comes off the lot.

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Speaker 1: But you want to go back and get another one. Yep. So,

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Speaker 1: And because our populations are down so far in Arkansas, kbe,

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Speaker 1: you kind of have to milk that success for a

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Speaker 1: longer period of time. Because I didn't kill a turkey

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Speaker 1: last year in Arkansas. UM, this year, I think our

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Speaker 1: popular are our our hunt was even harder than ever

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Speaker 1: it was later it was shorter, UM and so Bear

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Speaker 1: which one of the podcasts, last podcast maybe we talked

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Speaker 1: about my son Baron Newcomb killing the gobbler, and I

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Speaker 1: am I am milking that for all it's worth. Three

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Speaker 1: days after Bear killed the gobbler, River new Comb, Baron

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Speaker 1: Newcomb and I went back into national Forest and over

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Speaker 1: the two days hiked in road fourteen miles and did

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Speaker 1: not hear a single gobble. Good weather too, pretty good weather.

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Speaker 1: UM never even saw as much as a track or

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Speaker 1: a in in pretty good Turkey country. Historically historically good

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Speaker 1: Turkey Country and so, uh, River, good afternoon again. Have

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Speaker 1: we I got distracted by the date? Okay, it's a

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Speaker 1: one twenty first, so you know, two years ago. So

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Speaker 1: so I've got with me River Newcombe, say, hi, River Rivers,

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Speaker 1: my sixteen year old daughter. Um she is, uh, she's

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Speaker 1: world famous for falling off a mule and then killing

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Speaker 1: a big old pope and young nineteen inch plus Arkansas bear.

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Speaker 1: I've got Colby moorehead who's world famous for falling off am.

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Speaker 1: I forgot both of you. Guys fell off a mule

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Speaker 1: spring Bear Montain and you also killed a big bear

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Speaker 1: in Manitoba two years ago, two years ago in August.

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Speaker 1: It probably wasn't as big as Rivers bear, but it

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Speaker 1: was not. Its body was, but the skulls high teams.

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Speaker 1: We said, well I think it was. It was just

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Speaker 1: over nineteen, wasn't We didn't know how close it would be.

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Speaker 1: Well that would be about the same because Rivers was

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Speaker 1: just over nineteen. So anyway, these are these are my

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Speaker 1: people here that are on the podcast. Um. So what

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Speaker 1: we're gonna do today is we're going to continue on

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Speaker 1: with our basically a book review. So we two podcasts

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Speaker 1: ago we did we started kind of just a conversation

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Speaker 1: around this book by Valarious Geist and Shane Mahoney about

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Speaker 1: the North American model of wildlife conservation. Before we get

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Speaker 1: into that, though, I want to kind of give a

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Speaker 1: bear status update of what's happening with the spring bear seasons.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you could not have predicted I mean if

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Speaker 1: you would have said, Clay, if you would have had

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Speaker 1: the brightest thinkers in the world, the new hunting, that

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Speaker 1: new politics, that new law, and said, what would happen

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Speaker 1: that would cancel spring bear seasons in Canada? Not a

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Speaker 1: thing in the world. Yeah, yeah, there are no bears

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Speaker 1: luck now that you couldn't have predicted what would happen?

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Speaker 1: You know. Um, I wrote an editorial for the major

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Speaker 1: issue of Barony magazine which we went to print last week. Kobe,

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Speaker 1: I don't you didn't even see the editorial because I

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Speaker 1: wrote it like the day we went to print, and

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Speaker 1: I said that in a time of global crisis, literally

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Speaker 1: the things that can be shaken will be shaken, yea.

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Speaker 1: And so what we need to do is focus on

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Speaker 1: the things that can't be shaken, and spring bear hunting

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Speaker 1: can be shaken, and and you know, spring bearing hunting.

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Speaker 1: Bear hunting is really important to me, but it's not

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Speaker 1: the most important thing. And uh and you know, now

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Speaker 1: is the time to uh it's really an amazing time

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Speaker 1: for families to to focus on relationship. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: may never have another time in our life when we're

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Speaker 1: all together this much, you know, inside individual families and

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Speaker 1: homes and uh, so the time can be really valuable

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Speaker 1: and used for growth and development inside of a family,

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Speaker 1: or it could be detrimental. I mean, I think as

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Speaker 1: as fathers and mothers, like we have the option to

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Speaker 1: uh of how we script what the is gonna look

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Speaker 1: like inside of our homes. But I think it's a

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Speaker 1: good time to work on stuff for sure. I mean,

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Speaker 1: like my wife and I are working on stuff inside

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Speaker 1: of our marriage. Um, and we're we're we're you know,

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Speaker 1: because when you're around each other, you're you're, you're seeing things,

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Speaker 1: you're you need to communicate more. You need to move

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Speaker 1: away from self preference, to move away to preference of

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Speaker 1: the whole what's best for the family. Um. So there's

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Speaker 1: there's some work going on relationally, but but we're also

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Speaker 1: having a great time. You know, we're spending a lot

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Speaker 1: of time together. So this uh. Coronavirus COVID nineteen has

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Speaker 1: had significant impact on families and for the relevance of

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Speaker 1: this podcast, we're gonna talk about what has done for

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Speaker 1: bear hunting because currently the Canadian border is shut down

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Speaker 1: except for essential traffic river. Do you know what that means,

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Speaker 1: like the people that I have to work? Yeah? Maybe

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Speaker 1: it seems like bearer should be a sin doesn't Yeah? Yeah? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What if I rolled up there and I was just like, hey, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I published Bear Honey magazine. I gotta go

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Speaker 1: to Canada, they'd let me through. Do you remember that

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Speaker 1: one border guard that me and Brent Reeves talked about

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Speaker 1: when we smuggled that watermelon into Canada? Yes? Wait, they

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Speaker 1: he wouldn't have lived through because you've had fireworks, That's

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Speaker 1: what That's what it was, like, what kind of fireworks

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Speaker 1: you go? I was like, what I said, firearms? What

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Speaker 1: kind of fire works do you have? I don't have

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Speaker 1: any fireworks. Man. Anyway, he wouldn't let us through, but

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Speaker 1: essential travel. Okay, So so let's just give a quick rundown.

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Speaker 1: And this may not be the totality of it, but

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Speaker 1: this is pretty close. There. There are nine states in

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Speaker 1: the US to allow spring bear hounteing okay in the

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Speaker 1: lower four well nine states, and then almost all the

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Speaker 1: Canadian provinces except for like Nova Scotia UM and some

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Speaker 1: of the higher Canadian provinces like none of it, and

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Speaker 1: so essentially all the Canadian provinces have a spring bear season.

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Speaker 1: Currently in the US, Washington State has totally shut down

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Speaker 1: their bear hunt for the year. Okay, so you can't

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Speaker 1: hunt in Washington. Uh, Oregon the bear season is open

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Speaker 1: as I understand it. UM Montana came out about two

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Speaker 1: weeks ago and they closed down nonresident bear hunters coming

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Speaker 1: into the state, which that directly has affected us because

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Speaker 1: we're we we are we're planning a trip to Montana

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Speaker 1: this year. So but on the twenty four April, which

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Speaker 1: is just a few days from now, they are going

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Speaker 1: to decide what they're gonna do. There's speculation that they're

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Speaker 1: going to open it up to non residents because monte

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Speaker 1: and has hardly been hit by the coronavirus, have very

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Speaker 1: few population, small populations, it's not spread. It's been one

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Speaker 1: of the states that haven't been hit very hard, so

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Speaker 1: they're trying to kind of open back up the borders. UM.

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Speaker 1: They did say. They sent out a bulletin to people

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Speaker 1: that basically said they're considering. What did they say, Um, well,

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Speaker 1: it was essentially like, they're considering open up the borders

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Speaker 1: and if it wasn't work related, you had to quarantine

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Speaker 1: for fourteen days if you've been out of state. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it was there given some instruction. Okay. Um, Wyoming bear

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Speaker 1: season is open, Arizona bear season is open. Um. The

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Speaker 1: Idaho bear season is closed to nonresidents. Residents can hunt,

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Speaker 1: just like in Montana, residents compare hunt not They've they've

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Speaker 1: closed down the celle of nonresident tax and IAHW with

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Speaker 1: no prescription, you know, no no future casting that they're

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Speaker 1: going to open it up this year, which really I

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Speaker 1: heard a lot of people that were going to go

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Speaker 1: up there. Um, many of that. So let's talk. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So let's move from the US into Canada. Most Canadian

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Speaker 1: bar outfitters have canceled their hunts for this spring. We

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Speaker 1: wrote a story in the major issue of Barony magazine

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Speaker 1: where we talked about the economic impacts to bear hunting

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Speaker 1: outfits in Canada. You know, we have a lot of

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Speaker 1: great relationships with bar outfitters in Canada. That's that's what

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Speaker 1: we've kind of built a lot of what we do

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Speaker 1: for our people that get our magazine, that's hooking them

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Speaker 1: up with Canadian bear outfitters the right ones. Um. We

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Speaker 1: wrote this article and I want to kind of give

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Speaker 1: a picture because somebody, maybe maybe somebody booked a Canadian

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Speaker 1: bear hunt and then the outfitter is like, well, we're

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Speaker 1: not gonna do it, and you've already given them a

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Speaker 1: nonrefundable deposit, and maybe there's some question about how this

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Speaker 1: should be handled. Well, in this article we basically encourage

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Speaker 1: people to just be patient and let the outfitter have

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Speaker 1: some time to figure out what they're gonna do when

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Speaker 1: they've now lost basically potentially half of a year's income

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Speaker 1: and um. And the way that these outfitters work, especially

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Speaker 1: baited bear hunts in Canada, is that you give the

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Speaker 1: outfitter a you give the outfitter deposit, and then they

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Speaker 1: buy supplies for their camp and bait for that spring

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Speaker 1: hunt long in advance. I mean, they would have done

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Speaker 1: that back in January, February March, and so potentially the

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Speaker 1: money that you gave them has already been spent on

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Speaker 1: the hunt that was you were potentially supposed to come on.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of times maybe that money is not

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Speaker 1: there for the them to give back. And as much

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Speaker 1: as people may think that bary outfitters are rich, they're not.

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Speaker 1: I mean I described to somebody today that didn't know

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Speaker 1: the hunting world, and I said, you know the people

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Speaker 1: that we work with that are these bary outfitters. Man,

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Speaker 1: They're just good, hard working people that are wanting to

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Speaker 1: make a living doing being their own boss and and

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Speaker 1: essentially living off the land. I mean, they're they're not

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Speaker 1: doing it to get rich. Uh. You know, there are

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Speaker 1: some outfitters in different places that probably money is a

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Speaker 1: big motivation, but not somebody that's making their living off

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Speaker 1: black bear hunts and um. And so what we encourage

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Speaker 1: people to doing this article is just be patient and uh.

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Speaker 1: Jill parrotis Riverside Lodge, one of our good outfitters in

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Speaker 1: our magazine from Manitoba. He was quoted in the article

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Speaker 1: and he said, if you have booked with a reputable outfitter,

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Speaker 1: you have nothing to worry about because they're gonna make

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Speaker 1: it right now. Maybe next year, you know there they're

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Speaker 1: gonna have to do some fanagaling. But just be patient

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Speaker 1: and U, and I think that's what we've got to

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Speaker 1: do all the way around in a time of crisis,

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Speaker 1: even from just a standpoint of just you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: nobody wants to be out money and you know it's

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Speaker 1: kind of a hard deal. But but are my encouragement

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Speaker 1: to you if if you have book to hunt it

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Speaker 1: is just be patient and uh you'll get you'll get

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Speaker 1: your hunt and so um, that's good stuff. That's good

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Speaker 1: stuff forever. What do you think? No, Iver doesn't want

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Speaker 1: to talk. You're taking up You've got no comments on

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Speaker 1: the Canadian Bear Outfitters. You've never been to Canada. I've

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Speaker 1: never I want to go there from my senior trip though,

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Speaker 1: what kind of bearn you want to? But I said

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Speaker 1: that to you once in you wait a minute, you

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Speaker 1: can't hunt brown bears in Canada? Then Alaska? She wants

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Speaker 1: to brown burr hunt in Alaska for her senior trip. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: not Canada. Okay, big dreams, big dreams. You know how

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Speaker 1: much of that costs? Yeah, that's the one that Okay,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to go to Alaska to do and then

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Speaker 1: you said that I would probably rather go to Canada.

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Speaker 1: That's all I gotta mixed up. So I do want

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Speaker 1: to go to Canada and do the back. Yeah, that'd

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Speaker 1: be awesome. Your thoughts, Yeah, No, I mean dealing with

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Speaker 1: some of these guys up in Canada and they're just

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Speaker 1: really good people, you know, really easy to work with,

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Speaker 1: and they never they never tried to get anything over

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Speaker 1: on you, like, you know, just really really solid individuals,

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Speaker 1: at least the ones that I've dealt with. And so yeah,

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Speaker 1: I definitely have more of a thing. It's like, well,

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Speaker 1: if I can help, I'm okay with you. You know,

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Speaker 1: like I wouldn't have a problem with them keeping the

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Speaker 1: deposit just because of like knowing them and knowing like

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Speaker 1: just how they are, you know. And uh yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean it's expensive to baiting and run as many different

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Speaker 1: baits as they do, and you know, all the equipment

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Speaker 1: they have to use to get in and out, and

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Speaker 1: so there's a all of that is just like overhead.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's like that money isn't part of their

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Speaker 1: profit as part of your experience, you know. And so

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Speaker 1: I think just realizing it's like realizing that that those

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Speaker 1: funds are are really just basically setting up a foundation

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Speaker 1: for you to have an enjoyable time and not them,

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Speaker 1: you know, taking that for themselves and having that understanding

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Speaker 1: really really helps. Yep. Well that's good. That's good stuff

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Speaker 1: to to think about. And um, let us move on

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Speaker 1: to the second part of the book, review North American

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Speaker 1: wild Wildlife Conservation. So, as we stated before, this book

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Speaker 1: came out I think in the first the year, so

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Speaker 1: it it the copyright date, and the first of the

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Speaker 1: first few pages of the book says twenty nineteen, so

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Speaker 1: I think it's probably actually published in fall of twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 1: like why nineteen, but it it It really just started

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Speaker 1: to get into people's hands at the first this year.

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Speaker 1: So what we said was that we're trying as as

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Speaker 1: a hunting community, we're trying to establish our relevance in

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Speaker 1: modern times. That's what I think that we're trying to do.

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Speaker 1: And if you're if you're not trying to do that,

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Speaker 1: um you should be. You know, there's this phrase, this

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Speaker 1: this pop culture word that's used to describe the way

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Speaker 1: a person a kind of a person's worldview, okay, and

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Speaker 1: that pop culture word is for letters long and it's woke. Okay.

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Speaker 1: I think that a hunter, someone who is a hunter

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Speaker 1: that is thinking just beyond you know, the the primitive

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Speaker 1: nature of potentially just somebody that doesn't care, that just

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Speaker 1: wants to go shoot something like I'm not talking about

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Speaker 1: that guy, but but the guy that's woke just a

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Speaker 1: little bit, that appreciates hunting, that appreciates wildlife, that appreciates

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Speaker 1: and understands the the the privilege that we have as

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Speaker 1: Americans to do what we do bizarre. It's a bizarre

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Speaker 1: human experience experiment to do what we're doing. And and

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Speaker 1: it's worked with like massively flying colors in the last

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Speaker 1: hundred and thirty years, that that we've allowed the citizenry

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Speaker 1: of these United States to have access to public lands

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Speaker 1: and private lands to kill wildlife and take it into

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Speaker 1: private possession, because that would be so bizarre from what

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Speaker 1: what we can came from. So, you know, the foundation

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Speaker 1: of the current American governmental system and our people was

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Speaker 1: that we came from other places and that people were persecuted,

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Speaker 1: and so they left persecution, they left tyranny, that came

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Speaker 1: to America looking for freedom, and so over where a

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Speaker 1: lot of a lot of people would have come from

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Speaker 1: the founders of this country, wildlife was owned by the

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Speaker 1: nobleman that different times we set a kind of reviewing. Okay,

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Speaker 1: wildlife was owned by the king. Literally, the King of

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Speaker 1: England owned wildlife, and then sometimes the fifteen hundreds, there

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Speaker 1: wasn't an act made where they said, okay, the king

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Speaker 1: doesn't known at all, but the landowners owned the wildlife

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Speaker 1: that's on their land. And who were the landowners of

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Speaker 1: the time, rich folk, noble, so essentially the peasants. The

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Speaker 1: common man was taken out of the hunting equation. And uh,

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Speaker 1: the king actually used that law to disarm the citizenry

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Speaker 1: of Europe I mean of the United Kingdom of England

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Speaker 1: at one time, because I don't have a lot of

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Speaker 1: detail on that, but but he they used that to

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Speaker 1: be like, hey, you can't hunt, so you can't have guns.

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Speaker 1: We also talked about okay, so so that's where we

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Speaker 1: came from. So this whole idea of the citizenry owning

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Speaker 1: wildlife is a bizarre experiment. I mean, because think about it.

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Speaker 1: If you said, we are going to try something new

425
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: on this massive continent to save wildlife, and here's the idea,

426
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: We're not gonna sent it down to just where the

427
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: elite few get to hunt, that that would seem to

428
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: be the safe call for those in power. But guys

429
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: like Teddy Roosevelt and you know, the founders of this,

430
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: this the ideology of the North American Mali Wildlife Conservation, said,

431
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: you know what, for this to work long term, people

432
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: need to have vested interest inside this. People need to

433
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: receive benefit when this thing succeeds. People need to have

434
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: a reason to want to preserve wildlife. And inside of

435
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: that reason there would be culture built where we where

436
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: we report poachers, where we don't want over harvest of

437
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: this year because we're already thinking about next year, and

438
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: so like, it was this essentially bizarre experiment where they said,

439
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 1: you know what, We're gonna let the common guy anybody

440
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: that is you know, is free from a criminal record

441
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 1: and has access to a weapon to hunt, which in

442
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: this country that's been one of the founding principles of

443
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: this country. Second Amendment are builty to hold and bear arms,

444
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: which the North American model hinges upon the common man

445
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: having guns. That's that's incredible. So it's it's not just

446
00:28:58,440 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, we talked about the Second Amendment

447
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: and stuff, and there's lots of different narratives inside of that,

448
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,239
Speaker 1: you know, but I think it's pretty cool that One

449
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: of the narratives is that the Second Amendment is a

450
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: big part of the success of wildlife in this country,

451
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: which is counterintuitive. You think if you give every hillbilly

452
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: and redneck a gun that they would kill everything, but

453
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: they don't because the culture has been built in such

454
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: a way that you know, there are poachers, there are

455
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: people that break the law, but they are a lot

456
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: less than they used to be. I believe, I think

457
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: our culture is less tolerant of thieves and robbers. Um

458
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: and uh, our law enforcement is better. Just things are better. Okay.

459
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: So that's the that's that's where we that's where we started. Okay,

460
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: River Nukem. This is what I want you to know. Okay. Um.

461
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: We talked last podcasts about how River is pretty vocal

462
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: at school and she she kind of likes to have

463
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: a reason for why she does what she does. Um.

464
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: What we didn't get into last time, which is essential

465
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: in in in the last podcast was called the lynchpin

466
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: of relevance um and to me, one of the lynchpins

467
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: of relevance that every hunter has to know. And this

468
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: isn't new. There's you know, Brunelli's talks a lot about this.

469
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: There's Uh, Hunting collectives talked a lot about that. I

470
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: mean a lot of bigger podcasts have talked about the

471
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: Pittman Robertson Act. But for our people, we're gonna talk

472
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: about it again because the Pittman Robertson Act is one

473
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: of the most influential pieces of legislation that makes us relevant.

474
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: I mean, it is the thing that makes us relevant.

475
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: There's just a handful of things that really make hunting

476
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: relevant in modern times, and this is one of them.

477
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: And so the Pittman Robertson Um, Pittman Robertson Act. It's

478
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: technically that's kind of like the colloquial name, like the

479
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: common usage name, but it's actually called the Federal Aid

480
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: and Wildlife Restoration Act. What's it called, river, the Federal

481
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: Aid Wildlife Restoration Actor? That's right. Um. Do you know

482
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: when it was signed in the law and which president

483
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: did it? Colby? Do you always? I always want to

484
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: guess Roosevelt. You're you're wrong, but you're right because it

485
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: was Roosevelt. But it wasn't Theodore. It was it was Chucks,

486
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: the other Roosevelt, Franklin Delan or that, Yeah, it was

487
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: Franklin Delano or Roosevelt in ninety seven. Okay, so by

488
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties is essentially when the North American model

489
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: was in full bore widespread usage. Okay. In the last

490
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: podcast we talked about what the North American model is

491
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: in the Seven Sisters of Conservation. Okay, and I may

492
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: go back and review those. But so by the nineteen thirties,

493
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: pretty much all those things were in act, they were enacted,

494
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: and uh so the Federal Aid and Wildlife Restoration Act

495
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: was signed in the law by President Franklin D. Roosevelt

496
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: on September two, nineteen and thirty seven. Okay, long time

497
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: before I was born, A long time before Colby was born.

498
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: Uh pap Paul Newcomb was born in nineteen eight, Gary Newcomb,

499
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: So just give you a little you know, eleven years

500
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: before Papaul was born. Um So, but listen, this is

501
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: what the Penman Robertson Act is funded through an eleven

502
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: percent federal user pay fee or excise tax. That's a

503
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: good thing to know, a user pay fee as an

504
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 1: excise TAXI here someone say excise tax. Well, what I

505
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: didn't know what that meant. It's a user pay it

506
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: means so the people that are participating in that sport

507
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: are the ones that are taxed. So an excess and

508
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: excess tax doesn't mean that, uh, bread at the grocery store,

509
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: the tax you pound that does not go to this.

510
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: So if you never hunt, if you never buy firearms,

511
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: if we're gonna look at what actually pays it, like,

512
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: you don't pay into this. So this is a user

513
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: pay excess tax on these things. And this is important,

514
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: you need to know this. Sporting arms that means firearms,

515
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: archery equipment, and ammunition. And it's a ten percent tax

516
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: on handguns, so there's a differentiation. So it's eleven percent

517
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: tax on sporting arms, archer equipment, and ammunition. So broadheads, bows, arrows, fletchings,

518
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: anything that has to do with archery is taxed at

519
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: eleven rate above standard tax. And that money is collected

520
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: by the federal government and goes into a big fund. Okay,

521
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 1: it's collected by the U. S. Department of Treasury, and

522
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 1: these funds are apportioned each year as grants to the

523
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: states and territories by the U. S. Department of Interior

524
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 1: and based on a formula set forth in the Act. Okay,

525
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 1: And so basically what it boils down to, is that

526
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: the physical size of your state and the number of

527
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: licensed hunters is how the formula works for how much

528
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:39,800
Speaker 1: money that you get from Robertson Pittman. Okay, but therein

529
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: there there's another critical piece of it is that, uh, basically,

530
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: the federal government through this pays seventy in the states pay.

531
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: So basically, if if if the state of Arkansas got

532
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: seventy five thous dollars and Pittman Robertson money, they would

533
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 1: have to pay twenty five thousand from wherever, whether they

534
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 1: got it from license sales or whether they got it

535
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: from whatever however they got it. Does that make sense?

536
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: So they're trying to make the states have a stake

537
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 1: in what they're doing too, because we all know that

538
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 1: sometimes the government money, you know, is it's just it's

539
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: free money. It's you know, sometimes used in ways inefficient ways.

540
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: So basically it's it's putting some responsibility on the states,

541
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: like if you're gonna use this money for this, then

542
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: you got to put some in there too. Um. So

543
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: here is the next question is, uh, what is it

544
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 1: used for? Do you know? Kobe, see that's we we

545
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: know that and see I I didn't. I can't say

546
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 1: that I knew this that well. But it's like, what's

547
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,399
Speaker 1: it used for? So it's just one thing to say

548
00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: we fund conservation. Yeah, you know for some reason. Don't

549
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: think it's all like wildlife related things. I want to say,

550
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: it's even like other projects like for parks and stuff

551
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 1: like that, like recreational things, not solely wildlife. Gun ranges

552
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 1: is what you're thinking of gun ranges? Yeah, there's there's

553
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 1: a specific lotment of Robert Pittman Robertson money that is

554
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: that is that goes to public gun ranges. Um, but

555
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 1: let's see when one of those around here. Yeah, we do,

556
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 1: we do, and we don't have one. Yeah. Okay. Of

557
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 1: the funding available to the states, more than six is

558
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: used to buy, develop, and maintain wildlife management areas. Over

559
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,919
Speaker 1: four million acres have been purchased outright since the program began,

560
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: so four million acres perched right. Nearly forty million acres

561
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: are managed for wildlife under agreements with other landowners. So

562
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 1: Pittman Robertson money goes to fund wildlife management areas and

563
00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: to acquire habitat. Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna flip over

564
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: to another section of the book right here where um,

565
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: you know, there's a there's a place in here where

566
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: it talks about exactly what it's kind of spread out.

567
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 1: But Robertson Pittman Robertson money is used for wildlife management areas,

568
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 1: buying land, academic research. That's a big one because the whole,

569
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: the the lynchpin of this model is that scientific, scientific

570
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: based data, research data is used. And so like Mike Chamberlain,

571
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: the turkey doc that's been on Ronnella's podcast and landing legacy, um,

572
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: he said that a lot of his turkey research in

573
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: the Southeast has been funded by Pittman Robertson money. So

574
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 1: they fund research projects. So they fund And the way

575
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: that works River Newcam is that like if you went

576
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: to school to University of Arkansas and decided to get

577
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 1: your masters in biology or your PhD in biology, g

578
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: you might say, hey, I want to study turkeys in Arkansas,

579
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 1: and you would submit a proposal and they would have

580
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: to pay you and pay for your research, and it

581
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: would cost a lot of money. Uh, And so that

582
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 1: Pitman Robertson money would go to fund that, Okay, and

583
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: so it also uh a lotment of the money goes

584
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 1: towards hunter recruitment as well. Hunter recruitment programs, So like

585
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 1: Arkansas Game and Fish Commission can like say, hey, we're

586
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: getting three million dollars from the federal government. We're gonna

587
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: put in a million. We're gonna use some of that

588
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: money for boat ramps and wildlife management areas, and uh,

589
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna use some of it for building

590
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: some outreach programs to recruit new hunters that may be

591
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: advertising that maybe you know, building online programs for kids

592
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 1: or something, you know, whatever. And then they may say,

593
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 1: and we're gonna buy you know, they're three fifty acres

594
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 1: that's privately owned in the middle of this wildlife management area.

595
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: We're gonna buy that. Uh. They may say, we're gonna

596
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: clean up this gun range. We're gonna buy new gun range.

597
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: There's a lot of different stuff. That's what Pittman Robertson does. Um.

598
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 1: I want to say that there's been there's another place

599
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: in this book where it talks about how much actual

600
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: land has been purchased from Pittman Robertson, and it's it's

601
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: a massive amount of land. Um, So this money is

602
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: essential and and if we're talking about relevance of modern hunting.

603
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 1: It's a user pay fee. I mean, hunters and firearms

604
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 1: users are paying for this. Hikers, bird watchers, bicyclers, they

605
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: do not pay into this. I mean. And so it's like,

606
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: you know, some people might have some people could you know,

607
00:39:54,760 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 1: the devil's advocate could be like, you know, well, just

608
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:01,800
Speaker 1: because you pay for it doesn't mean that you're the

609
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 1: only ones that gets to say in in a democratic society.

610
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 1: But it's a hard thing to argue against. It's like, well,

611
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: we're the ones paying for it. We've been the ones

612
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 1: paying for it since nineteen thirty seven. Um and I

613
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: And that is good. That's really good. It's really good stuff.

614
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:23,760
Speaker 1: But okay, river nukeam. How much money that's Robberson Pittman

615
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:29,399
Speaker 1: Robertson fund. Here's another question we're gonna look at. There's

616
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: this one section in the book where it talks about

617
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 1: how much money hunters contribute and annually to conservation and

618
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 1: that breaks it down the three categories. Okay, the first

619
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,800
Speaker 1: one is actual Pittman Robertson money. Okay, listen to this,

620
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,479
Speaker 1: and this is just statistics from one year ten would

621
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: have been four years in ten, six hundred and ninety

622
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 1: five million dollars was a portion to state wildlife agencies

623
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 1: in the United States from the excise excise tax collected

624
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: on hunting and shooting purchase is which is the Federal

625
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,399
Speaker 1: Wildlife and restaurant That was the payout, Like how much

626
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 1: went to the states? Six million, six millions, so that

627
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: went to all fifty states presumably, you know, so you know,

628
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,359
Speaker 1: you can do the math. Let's do the math here,

629
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:27,879
Speaker 1: Like what's six divided by fifty that's like, uh twelve, yeah,

630
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: get your calculator, Get your calculator. Yeah, I don't. Let's

631
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: just get a general idea of like if it was

632
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 1: a portioned equally out to the states million each, yeah, okay,

633
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: well that's that's good if Okay, we we but we

634
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: know not everybody's equal because there's little states Rhode Islands

635
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: out that ain't getting much PR money. But like the

636
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,919
Speaker 1: state of Texas has a is massive and has tons

637
00:41:54,960 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 1: of hunters, Michigan, Wisconsin have tons of hunters. Arkansas as

638
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: a average sized state, but I mean we don't have

639
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,240
Speaker 1: a lot of people here. Montana is a huge state,

640
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 1: but not a lot of people. So all these things

641
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 1: factor in I would think the West would be hired

642
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,439
Speaker 1: just from the amount of tags. So because I would

643
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: imagine it would take into account nonresident it would license

644
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 1: Celles to Yep, it would is because it's license Celles.

645
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 1: So okay, well that's just a good idea. So but

646
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 1: you know, potentially, like if it were so, presumably some

647
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 1: are getting a lot more than thirteen million and some

648
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:37,439
Speaker 1: are getting less than that obviously. Okay, So that's that's

649
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: one thing. Pittman robertson money, and again we're talking about

650
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 1: hunters contributing financially to conservation, which we know that everything

651
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 1: in this world that works, unfortunately revolves around the almighty dollar,

652
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: you know, so for and they talk about that in

653
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 1: this book. Part of the reason the North American mile

654
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: of wildlife conservation has been so successful because it's worked aconomically,

655
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 1: it's it's provided jobs for people. The hunting industry is huge. Um,

656
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: there's benefits to it that go beyond just the individual

657
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: being able to go hunt and procure wild protein. There's

658
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: people that make a living from hunting. There's you know,

659
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 1: the manufacturers of products, outfitters, um. You know, all these

660
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: positive things, but also the actual funding of you know,

661
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 1: maintenance of these areas and and research and all this stuff.

662
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 1: So but the second thing is, uh, the sale of

663
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing, the self hunting licenses. Okay, okay, river,

664
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 1: take a guess, Um, how much money annually? Just take

665
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: a guess. It comes from she's got folks, she's shaking

666
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: her head and her eyebrows or furrowed. Um, how much

667
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:54,760
Speaker 1: money do you think comes from the sale of hunting

668
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 1: and fishing licenses in this country? I'll give you. Do

669
00:43:57,840 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 1: you have your phone? You don't have you don't have

670
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: your calculator? Because you could do a quick guestiment. You

671
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 1: could say, whether's I could tell you there's like a

672
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: hundred something thousand licensed hunters in Arkansas. They pay twenty

673
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: five dollars a year. So there's a couple of million,

674
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: and there's just one state, and there's fifties. So you

675
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 1: could multiply that times two. Okay, but you won't do that.

676
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 1: Colbe what's your guests Oh, let's say seventy million. Okay,

677
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:35,839
Speaker 1: try six hundred millions. I wouldn't have none where to guess. Yeah,

678
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have had a clue. So so again, let's

679
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:44,280
Speaker 1: six million from Pittman Roberts and excise tax six hundred

680
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 1: million from the sale of hunting and hunting licenses from

681
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: all the states. Okay, and then there's another massive contribution. Um,

682
00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: hold on just a second, Okay, yeah, yeah, there's another

683
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 1: massive contribution amount that comes from private dominations from hunters

684
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 1: for conservation efforts, which would come through organizations like Wild

685
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: Cheap Foundation, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, National Wild Turkey Federation.

686
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 1: We're gonna throw on ourybodies at the Western Bear Foundation. Um,

687
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: the duck's unlimited. So the river, there's these massive they

688
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:28,399
Speaker 1: call them NGOs, non government organizations, so they don't work

689
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: for the government. Their nonprofit five oh one C three's,

690
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: which means they raise money, but they're not really designed

691
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 1: to increase personal wealth for any one person. And uh

692
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:46,720
Speaker 1: so these organizations are very well run, very well funded,

693
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: induce some incredible work and uh, okay, how much do

694
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,800
Speaker 1: you think that they just guess? It's like rivers, you

695
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 1: can just guess. Kobe guest first, whatever he guesses, guess

696
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 1: what he says. Times to what's your guests? How much?

697
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: How much private donations? Okay, river, please multiply that time

698
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: two oh gosh, that's not even correct. Answer is three

699
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 1: hundred million, that's all I was closer. Well, if you

700
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 1: had done what I said, you'd have been exactly right. Yeah. Three.

701
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 1: I was amazed at that number. Three hundred million in

702
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 1: donate private donations. So that means what Ricky Mountain out foundation,

703
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:41,479
Speaker 1: and so you know they're taking donations from They're taking

704
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,479
Speaker 1: small donations from people through membership funds and different things.

705
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: But there's also some big players and conservation. I mean,

706
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:55,320
Speaker 1: the wealth of this country is pretty much unprecedented. I

707
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: don't really understand big money, but there are people that

708
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: have big money and they need text write offs, and

709
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: I mean some of them, maybe totally their donations are

710
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 1: truly because they care about wildlife, which I mean I'm

711
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 1: sure a lot of them are. I mean, like these

712
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 1: these groups are getting big money from some individuals that

713
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 1: are man, I'm glad they are. So so that combines,

714
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: so there's three things. Pittman Robertson uh, hunting, fishing licenses

715
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 1: and then private donations by hunters account for about one

716
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 1: point six billion with B dollars every year for conservation,

717
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 1: which goes towards all kinds of stuff, I mean everything

718
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 1: so you know, like like license fees and stuff like

719
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 1: that would go to just fund your states general wildlife

720
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,280
Speaker 1: management organization stuff. I mean like Arkansas Game and Fish Commission.

721
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 1: They've got biologists, they've got field technician and they've got

722
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,399
Speaker 1: private lands biologists that will come out to your land

723
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 1: and walk your land with you and give you recommendations.

724
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 1: They've got game wardens that patrol and are making sure

725
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 1: people are obeying the laws. They've got wildlife manage in

726
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 1: areas that need gates put up, they need um you know,

727
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,320
Speaker 1: like fisheries. You know, they're stock and fish, They're they're

728
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,959
Speaker 1: moving around turkeys at different times, they're doing research, they're

729
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: doing den studies for bear there, you know. I mean

730
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: like all that stuff is primarily funded through the sale

731
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: of hunting fishing licenses, and uh, it seems like they

732
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 1: have a surplus. You probably have more in the fund

733
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 1: than they're actually like using with the states. Well, I

734
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 1: will say describe what you mean by that that that

735
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 1: the amount contributed, it contributed is more than what is

736
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: going out to like states and projects. Potentially, Are you

737
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 1: saying they have more money than I need? Well, just

738
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: that's been like requested. Maybe, Yeah, you know because I

739
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 1: mean what I hear is a lot of these organizations

740
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 1: are really pinched. I really yeah, because it was like

741
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: what six hundred ninety five million that were states from

742
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 1: Pittsun Robertson. And it's like, was the rest of that

743
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 1: one point six annual billion dollars at least in two

744
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 1: thousand and sixteen, It's like where is how does that

745
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 1: get spread up? It's probably not in the book. It's

746
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: just yeah, well, I mean I think we can say

747
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 1: the hunting license part of it, which is six hundred million,

748
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 1: is going to just fund state stuff. I mean you

749
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,240
Speaker 1: see a game of fish truck driving down the road. Okay,

750
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: So that so that wasn't like part that's coming out

751
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: into Pittman Robertson. Like not like every license has a

752
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: little bit that go through the Pittman Robertson. No, no, no, no,

753
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,879
Speaker 1: because Pittman Robertson is free money that you get from

754
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: the government. Yeah, that's ear tagged for certain projects. Are

755
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 1: you with me? Yeah? Yeah, Well I just thought like

756
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: with firearms and stuff, I always thought like firearms, archery

757
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 1: and all that, And then when you said licenses, I

758
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 1: was like three different categories. Pittman Robertson money, licensed money,

759
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: private domate donation money, which you know, like the Arkansas

760
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:19,319
Speaker 1: Game and Fish Commission wouldn't be getting money from you know. Well,

761
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,399
Speaker 1: they probably do get some money for work with Ducks

762
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: Unlimited or Rocking Mountain Elk Foundation. But I mean it's

763
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: not like they're writing checks to Game and Fish to

764
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:32,399
Speaker 1: buy gas for biologists in Arkansas. But the guy buying

765
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 1: gas for biologists comes from that hunting license money. Yeah,

766
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 1: a little bit of a disconnect there, you go, Okay, good,

767
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 1: well that's good to get clarity on it. Um. So

768
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,239
Speaker 1: that's all I think every hunter I ought to know that.

769
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 1: I think everybody ought to be able to have some

770
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 1: understanding of how that works, you know, so that you

771
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 1: could have an intelligent conversation with people, and just so

772
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 1: you could appreciate. I mean, like we just take stuff

773
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 1: for granted. I mean, do you just take it for

774
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: granted that there's biologists. You take it for granted that

775
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 1: there are people that have the best interests of livelife

776
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 1: working in your state that are trying to you know,

777
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 1: I mean in general, wildlife agencies are not trying to

778
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 1: strangle out the sportsman because they make a living off

779
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: the sportsman, I mean they are sportsmen and and so

780
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 1: in general, the these you know, it just helps to

781
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 1: to know, um, what's going on, just that passion for

782
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 1: wildlife kind of underlying thing. Right, Um, let's see, Okay,

783
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 1: here's here's an interesting statistic. Recent estimates indicate that about

784
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 1: seventy of the users in these areas, and it's talking

785
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 1: about just public lands in the United States. Let's say

786
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 1: seventy of these users of these areas do not hunt,

787
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 1: and in some properties a percentage maybe as high despite

788
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: the funding source. Conflicts sometimes arise when non consumptive users

789
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 1: express concerns about seeing hunters using areas. Oh, the irony,

790
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:14,919
Speaker 1: the irony. Do you get that river, So it would

791
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 1: be like us being out in the National Forest Turkey

792
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: hunting and hikers seeing us and camouflage carrying guns and

793
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 1: being like not liking that, and then the irony of that.

794
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:31,359
Speaker 1: And see that's where that's whereas hunters. There's a lot

795
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 1: of things going on there. We do have to be

796
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 1: worried about public perception. But we also have a pr issue,

797
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 1: public relations issue, where if if this were widespread and

798
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 1: saturated throughout the culture, like if if we knew this

799
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 1: like we know a whole lot of other stuff in

800
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:54,759
Speaker 1: our culture. People would see a hunter and they would go, oh,

801
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:58,320
Speaker 1: thank you. A hiker would walk by a hunter and

802
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 1: say thank you for by that gun and those shells

803
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 1: and that camouflage and that turkey call. Because you are

804
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 1: paying for the maintenance of this forest. I mean, that's

805
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 1: truth and not the you know that that's you know,

806
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 1: I mean like the Forest Service isn't fully funded by

807
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 1: Robertson Pittman Act. That's not what I'm saying, because that's

808
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:23,880
Speaker 1: not true because you know that non consumptive user is

809
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,800
Speaker 1: you know, if it's national forest is paying something into

810
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 1: national force, but for wildlife related stuff that is funded

811
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:37,800
Speaker 1: by by by hunters. And then some wildlife management areas

812
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: that are specifically wildlife management areas like owned by Arkansas

813
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 1: Game and Fish Commission UH are owned by your state,

814
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 1: those are fully funded by the dollars of hunters. So

815
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 1: the irony of it, the irony. Um let me see

816
00:53:55,120 --> 00:54:00,160
Speaker 1: where are we going now? Um So I'm just kind

817
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 1: of perusing through this book trying to find different different

818
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: things that are that are of interest. Um. I keep

819
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 1: going back to this idea of self interest playing a

820
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 1: massive role. Um, let's see, do I want to read

821
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 1: that or not? I think I'm going to. One of

822
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: the greatest achievements, achievements and surprising aspects of the early

823
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:30,320
Speaker 1: North American conservation movement was the recognition that self interest

824
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:34,320
Speaker 1: must play a role in any long term effective strategy.

825
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 1: The North American model as emerged clearly represented a strong,

826
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 1: practical approach that returned something of direct value to the

827
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 1: citizenry of the day. It was in this frame of

828
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: reference that hunting defined its fair chase. Recreational pursuit, which

829
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 1: was in contradiction with market killing, became the cornerstone of

830
00:54:54,960 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 1: the North American approach to wildlife protection and enhancement. Yeah.

831
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 1: So this idea that the self interest of while I've

832
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 1: been owned by the citizenry is the is the crux,

833
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 1: is the focal point of this model. Is uh, that's

834
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 1: pretty pretty amazing stuff. So the final chapter in this

835
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 1: book is called Social, Economic, and Ecological Challenges to the

836
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 1: North American Mole Wilife Conservation. So the model worked so

837
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:37,480
Speaker 1: wonderfully in the nineteen hundreds, it truly did you know?

838
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,680
Speaker 1: We talked about in the last podcast about how one

839
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 1: of the critical components of this model is that the

840
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 1: general citizenry understood and and approved of hunting as a

841
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:58,320
Speaker 1: way to gather meat, essentially like that, because if that

842
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:01,799
Speaker 1: wasn't mainstream, then the model would collapse. Like if there

843
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:04,919
Speaker 1: came a time when only twenty percent of the people

844
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: thought hunting was okay to hunt, you know, it was

845
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 1: okay to hunt for meat, and eight percent didn't, the

846
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:15,880
Speaker 1: model would collapse. Well, the nineteenth century, not the nineteen hundreds. Uh,

847
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 1: we're we're ripe for that. I mean, you know, hunting

848
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 1: participation was at its peak in the nineteen eighties, when

849
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: I want to say, they were like sixteen million hunters

850
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 1: licensed hunters in America, and but our population at the

851
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 1: time was like two hundred and thirty million people, so

852
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: that was a fairly high percentage of hunters. Today, I

853
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:46,560
Speaker 1: think there are um eleven million licensed hunters in the

854
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:49,359
Speaker 1: United States. That may not seem like that big a deal.

855
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:52,320
Speaker 1: It's like, well, there's only five million less, but the

856
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 1: population of the United States is increased by hundred million,

857
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:59,320
Speaker 1: so we're now like four point five percent of the population.

858
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:02,799
Speaker 1: Because pretty significant numbers. And so one of the things

859
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:05,479
Speaker 1: that this book talks about is that in modern times,

860
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,280
Speaker 1: which I mean, we live in such a radically different

861
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 1: world because of and it's a lot of because of

862
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 1: the Internet, it's because of globalization, it's a lot of

863
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 1: different things. But that they said, what are the challenges

864
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 1: to the model? And they actually made a list, and

865
00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 1: and here are seven challenges to the model. We're not

866
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 1: gonna talk about all these, We're just gonna talk about

867
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 1: a few of them. But I think it's that's what

868
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 1: we've got to think about as hunters. It's like, what

869
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 1: are we what are we going to do different if

870
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 1: we want this thing to persist? And ultimately, if you

871
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: want something to persist beyond your life, you have to

872
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:43,640
Speaker 1: assign it some type of like sacred value. I mean,

873
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: because like I could just say, I mean, like I'll problem,

874
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 1: you know, I'm middle aged. I'll probably be able to

875
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 1: hunt for the rest of my life, presuming that I

876
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 1: live into my eighties. I mean, like there will be

877
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 1: some form of hunt the like if if, if, even

878
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:05,919
Speaker 1: if this thing starts to go south, but you still

879
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 1: go fishing. Yeah, but that can't be good enough. Like, like,

880
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 1: hunting has has shaped my life in such a way

881
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:21,520
Speaker 1: that essentially for me to think about my progeny, my

882
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 1: sons and daughters and their kids and their kids and

883
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 1: their kids. It it's it disturbs me to think that

884
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 1: there could be newcoms on the earth a hundred years

885
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 1: from now that couldn't go in the mountains of Arkansas

886
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: and Hunter Bear. That that is essentially enough disturbance inside

887
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 1: of me to say, I want this thing to persist,

888
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 1: and so we have to find ways to make it persist.

889
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 1: But the differences is that the world radically different than

890
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 1: when this model was at its peak of success. Okay,

891
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 1: So now we're seeing all these challenges to the model,

892
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 1: and here they are, and that's what this book is

893
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:07,920
Speaker 1: the best book and the only dedicated literature to the

894
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 1: North American Mile of Wildife conservation. And if you haven't

895
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 1: listened to the first one, you gotta go back and

896
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 1: listen to the podcast called The lynch Pin of Relevance.

897
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 1: I remember which episode. It was, two episodes ago, maybe

898
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 1: seventy seven. Okay. Number one challenges to the model increasing

899
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 1: human population, m Um, the the let's see eight two

900
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 1: of the people in North America live in urban areas.

901
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 1: That means eight of people live in rural areas. By

902
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 1: tift uh let's see live in cities in North America

903
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 1: UM a half to three quarters of the glow the

904
00:59:54,360 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 1: globe are are urban UM six Okay, in the worldwide

905
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 1: United Sates. United Nations projects that sixty percent of the

906
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:12,080
Speaker 1: global population will live in cities by an increase of

907
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 1: over the current statistic, whereas eight two percent of North

908
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 1: Americans already live in urban areas. So this is globally.

909
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 1: That's an interesting statistic because it it North America is

910
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 1: more urban than most of the world. So that's saying

911
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 1: that a lot of the world still lives in rural

912
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 1: areas and presumably are still connected to wild places. The

913
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 1: global population is presented projected to surge to eight point

914
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 1: five billion by twenty So, I mean the planet is

915
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 1: just getting filled up with people. People need space, people

916
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 1: need places to build houses. Uh we I see that

917
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 1: even in rural Arkansas in the eighteen thirties. Gerstalker Frederick Gerstalker,

918
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 1: the explorer Hunter that came over from Germany. That I

919
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 1: love his book. If he came over to this place

920
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:07,320
Speaker 1: that had just become a state, it was just this

921
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 1: wild place. And if you would have told him, hey,

922
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 1: hundred years from now, uh, very well, hundred for that

923
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:19,720
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy years from now, this place is going

924
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 1: to be so full of people that you will not

925
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 1: be able to get away from people. Um it would

926
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 1: have been he probably would have probably would have cringed.

927
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 1: But I think about it in the economics of even

928
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:36,480
Speaker 1: the way, and it probably is this way everywhere. But

929
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 1: like people vibe junks of land and intentionally fragmented, intentionally

930
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 1: block it. You know, they'll buy sixty acre track of

931
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 1: land and well they'll split it into six ten acre

932
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 1: tracks and sell that. People will buy those ten acre tracks,

933
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:56,920
Speaker 1: put in water, put in septic, build a cabin, and

934
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:00,040
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you've got six different own It

935
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:03,240
Speaker 1: is on a sixty acre track of land, that doesn't

936
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 1: seem that detrimental to wildlife. But when you start actually

937
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:12,040
Speaker 1: adding up the amount of forests that's being pushed over,

938
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:16,680
Speaker 1: gravel roads that are being put in, the disturbance and fragmentation,

939
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 1: it starts to add up ecologically, you know, for and

940
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 1: and it's okay, that was that's number one increasing human population.

941
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 1: Number two is globalization. This is a threat to the model.

942
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:33,200
Speaker 1: Globalization would just mean that essentially, as I understand that

943
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:37,520
Speaker 1: that that we're just becoming like one big nation. I mean,

944
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 1: like throughout the nineteen hundreds, communication would have been so

945
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 1: limited that you could have pretty much like run your

946
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 1: own country and your business was kind of your business

947
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:52,440
Speaker 1: in a sense, it's not true, but in a sense

948
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 1: today with urbanization, I've got people that don't speak English

949
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 1: that are commenting and tormenting the Bear Hunting magazine YouTube channel,

950
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:08,280
Speaker 1: because that YouTube video is all over the world, and

951
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:11,960
Speaker 1: we've had people from hundreds of countries are well over

952
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 1: a hundred that don't use letters. Yeah, they use different

953
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:20,160
Speaker 1: characters than the English characters commented on our bear hunting stuff.

954
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:25,240
Speaker 1: Globalization Like so people could look at some person doing

955
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:29,000
Speaker 1: something and think that is barbaric. They don't understand the culture.

956
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 1: And we do it with other people too though. I

957
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 1: mean we can't just say they're just doing it to us,

958
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 1: because we do it to other people as well, in

959
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:39,640
Speaker 1: other cultures that we see that we never would have

960
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:44,200
Speaker 1: had sight into, and we say that's crazy. Well, I

961
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 1: mean there's some things that are crazy, but I always

962
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:51,440
Speaker 1: say it like this is that hunting is very complex

963
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 1: and it is not understood at a glance, and it

964
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 1: takes an intelligent look to understand that the killing of

965
01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 1: something is actually a massive contribution and a scheme to

966
01:04:03,640 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 1: save it. It's an odd shaped pill, but sometimes the

967
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 1: truth is hard to swallow. So you know, somebody sees

968
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:15,240
Speaker 1: a hunter kill a bear on YouTube that's in some

969
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:18,960
Speaker 1: other place. They don't have bears in that place. They

970
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 1: live in massive cities in that place. They think that

971
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:25,920
Speaker 1: hunter just killed the last bear on the planet. They

972
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 1: don't understand that black bears are thriving. They don't understand

973
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:32,000
Speaker 1: that the color phase bear that I killed was a

974
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 1: black bear and not a grizzly bear. They don't understand

975
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: that Pittman robertson money that I paid taxes on when

976
01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:44,000
Speaker 1: I bought that archer equipment is going to buy while

977
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 1: if habitat for that bear. They just don't understand globalization.

978
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:55,080
Speaker 1: So again, people's perception is really critical. So approval is

979
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:58,040
Speaker 1: critical for this model to work. So if if the

980
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 1: globe is becoming smaller and there's people that don't understand it,

981
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:04,560
Speaker 1: don't approve, then that hurts the model. Okay, Number three

982
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 1: urbanization and the human nature divide, which urbanization is just

983
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:13,240
Speaker 1: what we talked about, um that all these people live

984
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:18,800
Speaker 1: in cities. The Human Nature Divide is where he goes

985
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:21,120
Speaker 1: into this book and says that, like fifty percent of

986
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:26,280
Speaker 1: Americans do not know basic science, like for instance, that

987
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:31,200
Speaker 1: the example he used was that antibiotics don't fight viruses,

988
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:36,280
Speaker 1: Like uh, he said, most people don't know basic science,

989
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:38,600
Speaker 1: like how long you know, what's the pattern of the

990
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:41,880
Speaker 1: sun as it as the Earth rotates around the sun,

991
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:45,439
Speaker 1: Like how long is it? Like what is basically a year?

992
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:49,640
Speaker 1: You know, calendar year is essentially the Earth traveling around

993
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:53,560
Speaker 1: the Sun. Like, people don't know that basic science. And

994
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:57,280
Speaker 1: this model is based on science. And so his point

995
01:05:57,480 --> 01:06:02,680
Speaker 1: was that if people don't know science, then true science

996
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:07,760
Speaker 1: is irrelevant to them, because I mean science and data

997
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:12,160
Speaker 1: and research is only valid if you understand it and

998
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:17,080
Speaker 1: you are like, yeah, I salute science. Science is right.

999
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 1: What I think in my perception is probably wrong. Like

1000
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:26,200
Speaker 1: and so basically who's saying people people don't know science?

1001
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:31,320
Speaker 1: So that that would be the human nature divide. Urbanization

1002
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:33,840
Speaker 1: means people are further away from their food, further away

1003
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:39,160
Speaker 1: from animal death, further away from really what happens in

1004
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:42,240
Speaker 1: order to feed humans, all right. Number three lack of

1005
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:47,760
Speaker 1: connect connectivity of fragmentation that goes back to most wildlife

1006
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 1: populations need best case scenario, need unfragmented habitats. So fragmented

1007
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:58,240
Speaker 1: habitats could be as simple as like here in Arkansas,

1008
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:02,480
Speaker 1: we have to what we call alipatrick populations of bears

1009
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:06,920
Speaker 1: and the washtass and nozarks. Alapatrick means a isolated population.

1010
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:11,320
Speaker 1: Essentially Interstate forty River, if you drove from Fort Smith

1011
01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 1: to Little rock Um, Interstate forty is a two lane

1012
01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 1: highway divided with a median, and bears essentially don't cross that.

1013
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:27,160
Speaker 1: And the Arkansas River and Interstate five forty divide the

1014
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:34,720
Speaker 1: bear populations in Arkansas, and that potentially has economic, has

1015
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:40,880
Speaker 1: biological impact on genetics, has biological impact in a lot

1016
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:43,280
Speaker 1: of different ways for these populations to be able to

1017
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:47,920
Speaker 1: expand and spread. Fragmentation, that's big time with I read

1018
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:50,640
Speaker 1: a study the other day about Bob white quail that

1019
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:57,400
Speaker 1: paved roads actually affect Bob white quail distribution and breeding

1020
01:07:57,480 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 1: and different things. You wouldn't think it. You think run

1021
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:04,560
Speaker 1: on across the asphalt, it could fly right across it. Well, Fragmentation,

1022
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:07,920
Speaker 1: it messes them up. I mean, like these animals have

1023
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:13,800
Speaker 1: have grown up for a gazillion years inside of environment

1024
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:16,439
Speaker 1: that was wild and just in the last hundred years,

1025
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:21,160
Speaker 1: paved roads have been instituted bridges, you know, fields where

1026
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:24,760
Speaker 1: there weren't fields before um and so they've never had

1027
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:28,919
Speaker 1: to deal with an asphalt road. Fragmentation. Do you understand?

1028
01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:32,360
Speaker 1: Do you understand the river? Okay? Number six, and then

1029
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:35,880
Speaker 1: there's only two more guys. This is like a big lecture.

1030
01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:41,040
Speaker 1: This is great, thank you, thank you. It's just this

1031
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:47,599
Speaker 1: is my class you river or my pupil Okay, funding

1032
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:52,320
Speaker 1: fragility and resilience. Okay, that's uh, yeah, that that goes

1033
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:56,720
Speaker 1: into just the idea of the funding. There's we talked

1034
01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:58,799
Speaker 1: about all this funny, but there's massive issues with funding.

1035
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:02,160
Speaker 1: I mean, Arkansas Game and Fish Commissions license sales went

1036
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:06,040
Speaker 1: down by twenty this year, so I heard, you know,

1037
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:08,040
Speaker 1: it may have been eighteen, that may have been twenty two,

1038
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:11,479
Speaker 1: but in that ballpark. So like all this money that

1039
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:15,120
Speaker 1: we're talking about, that's paying the fuel bills for biologists

1040
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:18,000
Speaker 1: driving down the road to come to your property like

1041
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,920
Speaker 1: they were making. If they're making a hundred thousand, they're

1042
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:24,640
Speaker 1: making eighty. Now not the biologists, but just you know

1043
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:34,080
Speaker 1: less that's massive, Uh, the the the Pittman Robertson is

1044
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:37,800
Speaker 1: fueled by user pay stuff. So if the archery industry

1045
01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:42,600
Speaker 1: decreases because people don't hunt or people are distracted with

1046
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:46,000
Speaker 1: whatever's going on in life, and they'd be like, I'm

1047
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:49,600
Speaker 1: not gonna hunt this year, Uh, they're not contributing. You know.

1048
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:51,560
Speaker 1: I thought about this this year. I didn't buy a

1049
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:55,800
Speaker 1: single turkey call this year. Yeah, I'm forty years old.

1050
01:09:56,040 --> 01:09:58,479
Speaker 1: I think I bought a turkey call every year of

1051
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:02,000
Speaker 1: my life since I was about sixteen. Yeah, I've gone

1052
01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:05,559
Speaker 1: to Walmart or gone to the sporting good store, uh

1053
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:09,240
Speaker 1: and bought a turkey call, multiple turkey calls. Yeah. Well,

1054
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:15,080
Speaker 1: this year, because of this COVID nineteen stuff, I didn't.

1055
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:17,960
Speaker 1: I just pulled the old call that I found out

1056
01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:21,160
Speaker 1: and worked around on a little bit of DIAFRAGM calls

1057
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:23,400
Speaker 1: what I used. And I was like, well that's okay.

1058
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:26,160
Speaker 1: And then River wanted a call, and what do we do?

1059
01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:29,120
Speaker 1: We cleaned up one of mine, real good, and I

1060
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:31,599
Speaker 1: gave it to you. I usually would have just bought

1061
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:38,040
Speaker 1: you one because it's you know, kind of gross. How

1062
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:40,519
Speaker 1: did it sound? Though? Hey, River is turned into a

1063
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:43,120
Speaker 1: good turkey call. I told River Nukelem. I said, hey,

1064
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:44,960
Speaker 1: if you want to be a turkey hunter and the legit,

1065
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:48,840
Speaker 1: you gotta learn use a difragm and she's learning. Um,

1066
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:53,360
Speaker 1: so like, so there would be taxes that would be

1067
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:58,840
Speaker 1: on that turkey call equipment that I didn't contribute this

1068
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 1: year because of this COVID Night team. We know there's

1069
01:11:02,439 --> 01:11:05,400
Speaker 1: all kind of financial implications, but so the funding is

1070
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:09,000
Speaker 1: in jeopardy. And that's why you know, sixteen million hunters

1071
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 1: in in the nineteen eighties now and now down to

1072
01:11:12,280 --> 01:11:15,560
Speaker 1: eleven point five million hunters. Those are the people that

1073
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:20,519
Speaker 1: are paying for this, and so there's massive potential issues

1074
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:23,360
Speaker 1: with funding. And so that's why hunter recruitments so massive.

1075
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:25,799
Speaker 1: And we could do a whole podcast about hunter recruitment

1076
01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:29,719
Speaker 1: and maybe we will, but man, it's the math is simple.

1077
01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:35,439
Speaker 1: If everybody that gives a darn about hunting, we'll just

1078
01:11:35,479 --> 01:11:40,080
Speaker 1: try to replicate themselves by one or two recruit one

1079
01:11:40,160 --> 01:11:43,000
Speaker 1: or two people. Encourage people to buy a hunting license.

1080
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:46,080
Speaker 1: You know, this year there were several people that I

1081
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 1: encouraged by a hunting license and they did and they

1082
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:54,040
Speaker 1: didn't even hunt that much. But I told them, I said,

1083
01:11:54,080 --> 01:11:56,400
Speaker 1: you have contributed as much to conservation this year as

1084
01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:59,720
Speaker 1: I have. Because you bought that twenty five license and

1085
01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:01,920
Speaker 1: you know they went hunting one or two times. I

1086
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:03,920
Speaker 1: was like, I was like cheering them on. Good you

1087
01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:06,400
Speaker 1: contributed to conservation. You have no idea what you just did,

1088
01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:12,440
Speaker 1: but it was significant if everybody was really an evangelist

1089
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:15,240
Speaker 1: for what we're doing, Because I mean, if there's eleven

1090
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:17,439
Speaker 1: point five million of us, and let's just even say

1091
01:12:17,479 --> 01:12:21,360
Speaker 1: a very you know, let's say of those eleven point

1092
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:29,640
Speaker 1: five million are woke, and we could all replicate ourselves.

1093
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:34,400
Speaker 1: Take someone new, encourage a buddy that hadn't hunted in

1094
01:12:34,479 --> 01:12:36,720
Speaker 1: a few years to buy his license and go with you.

1095
01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:40,639
Speaker 1: I mean, bam, you bumped that number up a couple

1096
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:44,080
Speaker 1: of million, which is notable, you know. I mean, so

1097
01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:48,000
Speaker 1: the solutions to this are, you know, to getting humans

1098
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:50,559
Speaker 1: to act and do stuff that is outside of their

1099
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:56,559
Speaker 1: self interest is the climax of leadership and the most

1100
01:12:56,600 --> 01:12:59,240
Speaker 1: difficult thing in the world getting people to do stuff

1101
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:02,280
Speaker 1: that's not just in direct benefit to them. So I

1102
01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:05,200
Speaker 1: mean some people might think, well, you hunting is not

1103
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:07,160
Speaker 1: a direct benefit to me. I mean, like they don't

1104
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:10,320
Speaker 1: have interest in getting other people hunt. Interesting honey, I

1105
01:13:10,360 --> 01:13:12,360
Speaker 1: mean I do a lot of hunting that's so low hunting.

1106
01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:15,680
Speaker 1: I can't take you. Um, I don't want to take you,

1107
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:18,880
Speaker 1: but there are some things I do that I do

1108
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:21,200
Speaker 1: want to take you. I'm not I'm pointed, Kobe, but

1109
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:24,720
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about I'm mainly talking about you. There's

1110
01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:27,800
Speaker 1: some things I want you on, some things I don't. Um.

1111
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:31,120
Speaker 1: But you know, so all of us have, like we do,

1112
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:33,800
Speaker 1: have personal priorities inside of hunting that you know, it's

1113
01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 1: okay to have that, but they're probably places where you

1114
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:40,360
Speaker 1: could give a little and that's got to be grafted

1115
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:43,960
Speaker 1: into our culture big time, big time, big time. So

1116
01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:48,400
Speaker 1: we all have to move beyond ourselves if we want

1117
01:13:48,439 --> 01:13:52,720
Speaker 1: this thing to persist. If you want your progeny to

1118
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:56,880
Speaker 1: be able to be shifted and shaped by the wild

1119
01:13:56,960 --> 01:14:00,320
Speaker 1: places that have shifted and shaped and made you and

1120
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:05,280
Speaker 1: giving you joy and giving you health through organic, beautiful,

1121
01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:09,439
Speaker 1: tasty protein, if you want those same wild places that

1122
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:13,400
Speaker 1: have have challenged you and made you into what you are,

1123
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:15,360
Speaker 1: which if hunting is a part of your life, I

1124
01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:18,320
Speaker 1: think in some way it probably has done that. Um

1125
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:25,880
Speaker 1: so um. The last one, number seven is labeled abundance

1126
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:29,880
Speaker 1: and superabundance. And I'm gonna have to be honest about that.

1127
01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 1: While there are many instances of wildlife depopulation in the

1128
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:37,639
Speaker 1: wake of human development, some species of native wildlife thrive

1129
01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:42,200
Speaker 1: and human impacted landscapes across North America. Whitetailed deer, elk

1130
01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:47,720
Speaker 1: snow geese, Canadian geese, raccoons, beavers, even black bears. Black

1131
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:51,840
Speaker 1: bears are often highly abundant in such areas. It's true,

1132
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:55,720
Speaker 1: I've said it so many times. Whatever is happening ecologically

1133
01:14:55,760 --> 01:14:57,840
Speaker 1: in North America has been beneficial to black bears and

1134
01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:02,160
Speaker 1: all these other things. But um abundant or super abundant species,

1135
01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:07,120
Speaker 1: especially herbivores, caused ecological damage therefore threaded threatening other species

1136
01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:11,000
Speaker 1: of flora and fauna so like, because of the changing ecosystem.

1137
01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:13,320
Speaker 1: And and herein lies one of the challenges of the

1138
01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:15,360
Speaker 1: North American model. So we just listened out to seven

1139
01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:18,680
Speaker 1: seven challenges. One of them is super abundance of like

1140
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:21,360
Speaker 1: snow geese, white tailed deer. You know, we've got twenty

1141
01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:24,160
Speaker 1: five million white taild deer in the country. Um, like

1142
01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:26,880
Speaker 1: those are it's a it's a challenge to manage those

1143
01:15:26,920 --> 01:15:29,920
Speaker 1: and you know, you could go on. But hey, um,

1144
01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:34,320
Speaker 1: the last one of the last things. Uh, declining population

1145
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:40,160
Speaker 1: um today less than five per cent of Americans hunt. Um,

1146
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:47,320
Speaker 1: it's a big deal. And uh let's see yeah in

1147
01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:53,920
Speaker 1: testas trying to squirrel. But no, hey, I encourage everybody

1148
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:55,560
Speaker 1: to get this book in their hands and read it.

1149
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:58,360
Speaker 1: Like I said, it's not to me. It was fun

1150
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 1: and a lot of people would be a fun read.

1151
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:02,800
Speaker 1: But but it's an academic read. I mean, it's not

1152
01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:05,439
Speaker 1: made to be. It's not like full of like hunting

1153
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:07,960
Speaker 1: stories and stuff. But that's what I like. It's kind

1154
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:11,120
Speaker 1: of like reading the textbook, very well written, very to

1155
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:15,559
Speaker 1: the point, full of facts and figures. I mean. But again,

1156
01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:19,840
Speaker 1: I think this is the lynchpin of our relevance, and

1157
01:16:19,880 --> 01:16:23,519
Speaker 1: the lynch pin being a person or thing that is

1158
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:26,920
Speaker 1: vital to an enterprise or an organization. And the literal

1159
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:29,880
Speaker 1: meaning of lynchpin is a pen that goes through an

1160
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:34,240
Speaker 1: axle that holds the wheel on the axle river. So

1161
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:39,000
Speaker 1: this holds the wheel on holds the wheel on. Our

1162
01:16:39,080 --> 01:16:42,640
Speaker 1: hunting knowledge of the North American Mile of Wildlife Conservation,

1163
01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:48,240
Speaker 1: which has been called an active American genius, wasn't replicated,

1164
01:16:49,040 --> 01:16:52,479
Speaker 1: and it's unreplicatable. That's what they say. It's what Shane

1165
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:56,400
Speaker 1: Mahoney said. He said, this is unreplicatable because you know,

1166
01:16:56,760 --> 01:16:58,880
Speaker 1: in a a lot of times, if something is really

1167
01:16:58,920 --> 01:17:01,120
Speaker 1: successful in one play east, like in a country, they'll

1168
01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:03,519
Speaker 1: try to take it to another place and try to

1169
01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:07,400
Speaker 1: see if it works. And uh, because of the unique

1170
01:17:07,479 --> 01:17:11,000
Speaker 1: characteristics of this country, one being all the public land

1171
01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:14,360
Speaker 1: that we have, you know about of this of North

1172
01:17:14,400 --> 01:17:21,960
Speaker 1: America's public land um and number two armed citizenry number three,

1173
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:29,559
Speaker 1: you know, kind of a a national approval, historic national

1174
01:17:29,640 --> 01:17:34,320
Speaker 1: approval of hunting, which really is essential. I mean, like

1175
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:37,719
Speaker 1: so many of our patriarchs of this country were hunters,

1176
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:41,519
Speaker 1: and we're endeared patriarchs, you know. I mean like Dan,

1177
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:46,040
Speaker 1: like most people in this country. If you said Daniel

1178
01:17:46,040 --> 01:17:49,559
Speaker 1: Boone thumbs up or thumbs down, they would say thumbs up,

1179
01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:53,160
Speaker 1: Davy Crockett thumbs up or thumbs down, thumbs up. What

1180
01:17:53,240 --> 01:17:55,360
Speaker 1: do you know about Davy Crockett? He killed a bear

1181
01:17:55,800 --> 01:18:02,080
Speaker 1: when he was only three, Davy, Davy, they would understand

1182
01:18:02,200 --> 01:18:04,599
Speaker 1: as a hunter. I got just a small chuckle out

1183
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:07,720
Speaker 1: of that song, because you know, what do you what

1184
01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:09,759
Speaker 1: would people think of when they thought of Davy Crockett.

1185
01:18:09,800 --> 01:18:11,800
Speaker 1: They think of hunting. What do they think of when

1186
01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:14,240
Speaker 1: they think of Daniel Boone? They think of hunting. Um,

1187
01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:17,080
Speaker 1: you know some of these some of these hunters. Can

1188
01:18:17,080 --> 01:18:24,519
Speaker 1: you all think of any others? We we can't, No, Cob,

1189
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:28,080
Speaker 1: we can't either. Come on, man man drawn and blank.

1190
01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:34,800
Speaker 1: Those those two are pretty famous, you know Boone and Crockett. Yeah,

1191
01:18:35,840 --> 01:18:36,960
Speaker 1: but there were a lot. There were a lot of

1192
01:18:37,040 --> 01:18:41,200
Speaker 1: other hunters that were nationally known and men that were hunters.

1193
01:18:41,280 --> 01:18:45,479
Speaker 1: But but so hey, that's all go get this book.

1194
01:18:46,040 --> 01:18:50,560
Speaker 1: And uh man, I think the more knowledge that we have,

1195
01:18:51,560 --> 01:18:55,280
Speaker 1: and as that knowledge is filtered through the life of

1196
01:18:55,360 --> 01:19:00,320
Speaker 1: a person that is that that cares and that is

1197
01:19:00,360 --> 01:19:04,320
Speaker 1: giving back and it's being responsible inside the hunting world

1198
01:19:04,360 --> 01:19:08,800
Speaker 1: and being a positive representation of a modern hunter. I

1199
01:19:08,920 --> 01:19:13,320
Speaker 1: think it's I think it's helping and and and I

1200
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:15,880
Speaker 1: think we're moving in the right direction. But we do,

1201
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:20,920
Speaker 1: we're massively. This book in some ways is a little

1202
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:23,719
Speaker 1: bit depressing because it it does talk about the challenges.

1203
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:27,280
Speaker 1: But hey, we were put here for such time as this,

1204
01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:32,639
Speaker 1: so river, what should people do? Keep the wild places wild?

1205
01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:36,120
Speaker 1: Because we started with the getting Yeah, okay, keep the

1206
01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:38,479
Speaker 1: wild places wild because that's where the beggars live.