Speaker 1: So here's the difference that we can all make every
Speaker 1: single day by what we choose to do. How are
Speaker 1: we using our social media, what are we listening to?
Speaker 1: So it's easy to feel disempowered, when in fact, the
Speaker 1: biggest power we have is that off on switch. Every
Speaker 1: media joyce we is either an advocacy position for what
Speaker 1: matters to women are it's quite the opposite, And we
Speaker 1: won't change the power structure unless we let our power
Speaker 1: of voices be heard. That was Pat Mitchell by her
Speaker 1: own definition. She's a dangerous woman, and that's a good thing.
Speaker 1: She's a groundbreaker in media, having been the first woman
Speaker 1: president of PBS and CNN Productions, among her many other achievements.
Speaker 1: She also help to create TED Women, where she is
Speaker 1: editorial director. I'm a land Ververe and this is Seneca's
Speaker 1: one Women to Hear. We are bringing you one hundred
Speaker 1: of the world's most inspiring and history making women you
Speaker 1: need to hear. Pat Mitchell's memoir Becoming a Dangerous Woman
Speaker 1: tells how she went from life as a small town
Speaker 1: Georgia girl with no money and no connections to global success.
Speaker 1: That success includes winning an Emmy, being a film and
Speaker 1: TV producer, being the first woman to own and host
Speaker 1: a nationalist syndicated daily talk show, and acting as a
Speaker 1: lifelong champion of women in the media and in leadership.
Speaker 1: Let's listen and learn why Pat Mitchell is one of
Speaker 1: Seneca's one hundred Women to hear Well, I'm just thrilled
Speaker 1: to be here today with Pat Mitchell. She has really
Speaker 1: blazed trails uh pioneering, particularly on women in the media,
Speaker 1: but so much more so, Pat, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for being with us, Milan. It's a privilege. You have
Speaker 1: had so many important groundbreaking positions, first woman to head
Speaker 1: PBS and CNN productions, to heading the Payley Center, to
Speaker 1: editorial director of TED Women, and we can go on
Speaker 1: and on. But I know personally, what stays you connected
Speaker 1: is elevating women's stories and experiences, and you have been
Speaker 1: so consistent on that. So why is that so important
Speaker 1: to you even though these positions have been buried. You know,
Speaker 1: my lan, I believe that being connected to each other,
Speaker 1: understanding each other's stories and learning from each other's experiences
Speaker 1: is how we survive, and more importantly, it's how we thrived.
Speaker 1: I mean for generations, going way back to the beginning.
Speaker 1: You know, we did it outside of the caves of
Speaker 1: the huts while the men were off hunting. We shared
Speaker 1: stories of survival, and then we moved forward from there
Speaker 1: to over our back fences are now in talking circles,
Speaker 1: and now as you and I are talking together, now
Speaker 1: we have learned from each other, and we've also gone
Speaker 1: into each other's lives with a deeper level of understanding
Speaker 1: of what we share. Clearly, our lives are different. We
Speaker 1: are not monolithic as a community of global women, but
Speaker 1: we share certain things. We share certain experiences, and by
Speaker 1: understanding them, seeing them up close, um leads us to
Speaker 1: do things that are not possible individually, collective problem solving,
Speaker 1: for example, leveraging our power to make things happen. I mean,
Speaker 1: you've led so many of those efforts in Milan, and
Speaker 1: you've been in so many of the talking circles that
Speaker 1: I've been in, And I never ever come away from
Speaker 1: a gathering of women without hearing some story or some experience,
Speaker 1: or some insight that illuminates a problem for me or
Speaker 1: shows me a new way forward. So I think being
Speaker 1: together and knowing about each other, elevating each other's experiences
Speaker 1: and ideas is probably our single biggest survival tool, and
Speaker 1: it is certainly our biggest lever of power to change things.
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more with you, Pat, and you have
Speaker 1: been just an exceptional connector not just with women across
Speaker 1: the United States, but truly all around the world. I
Speaker 1: want to ask you about women in the media, how
Speaker 1: women are represented in the media today, because we know, uh,
Speaker 1: and you know better than most how it's evolved. But
Speaker 1: for you can tell us what it was like when
Speaker 1: you started out, uh, and then modest as you are,
Speaker 1: perhaps a little bit about how you helped change it.
Speaker 1: When I started, it was a lonely place to be. Uh.
Speaker 1: There were there were only three or four of us,
Speaker 1: and possibly only one and most media companies. You know,
Speaker 1: the government had insisted that women and minorities as we
Speaker 1: refer to communities of color at that time, that we
Speaker 1: all be hired so that television would start to look
Speaker 1: a little bit more representative. But it didn't look representative,
Speaker 1: and we were encouraged, as you remember, Milan, we were
Speaker 1: encouraged not to form ally ship. We were encouraged to
Speaker 1: protect our turf, stay away from each other. UM. And
Speaker 1: therefore the numbers took a long time to increase. Because
Speaker 1: we weren't doing what we do best, which is advocating
Speaker 1: for each other. So those early days number numbers matter,
Speaker 1: they still matter. And this morning, as I was reflecting
Speaker 1: on some of the changes that I see in a
Speaker 1: media which, by the way, so sadly still misrepresents an
Speaker 1: under represents women and communities of color, I did have
Speaker 1: to think there are some things to celebrate, and one
Speaker 1: of them I'm experiencing this week at the Sundance Film Festival,
Speaker 1: where more than half of the films and projects here
Speaker 1: Milan were directed produced by women. Now that's an incredible
Speaker 1: increase over the I think the largest number of any
Speaker 1: film festival storytelling representation of women before that have been
Speaker 1: somewhere around thirty but this year to go over half
Speaker 1: and more than thirty percent of that from artists of women,
Speaker 1: artists of color. So we have made progress, and clearly
Speaker 1: we've made progress. In numbers, you can see more women
Speaker 1: and you can hear more women's voices. But where it
Speaker 1: matters even more than in numbers, is what we are
Speaker 1: doing as individual women who have the opportunity like you
Speaker 1: and I do, to have access the media platforms like
Speaker 1: this one. Also, every woman who is a media consumer,
Speaker 1: and that's all of us to be using our media platforms,
Speaker 1: whatever they may be, to elevate and advocate for other women,
Speaker 1: because that's the way real change is going to happen.
Speaker 1: You asked me not not to be modest and to
Speaker 1: talk about how I changed it. I never think of
Speaker 1: how I changed it, because it cannot be done only
Speaker 1: by one individual. But I did decide early on in
Speaker 1: my media career that I would focus on the stories
Speaker 1: of women and put them forward every opportunity I would get.
Speaker 1: And it was easy because in the early days, the
Speaker 1: answer you get from the programmers was who cares women
Speaker 1: want their soap operas and game shows? Well, we know
Speaker 1: that's not true, and so over the years, continuing to advocate, create, produce,
Speaker 1: come up with ideas. Uh, that's how we change it.
Speaker 1: TED Women's another example of of a big brand and
Speaker 1: organization that was putting ideas out into the world. When
Speaker 1: we came up with the idea of a TED Women,
Speaker 1: there were less than seven percent of the stories of
Speaker 1: women and the ideas of women being represented on that
Speaker 1: stage and on that platform. Today they're more than half,
Speaker 1: and among the most popular TED talks in the world
Speaker 1: are ones that were delivered composed uh and came from
Speaker 1: the minds and work of women. So numbers matter, but
Speaker 1: standing up for each other and navocating for each other
Speaker 1: UH matters even more. Well, that's just terrific advice. And
Speaker 1: we like advice on this program because we have so
Speaker 1: many listeners who really do want to make a difference. UM.
Speaker 1: And you mentioned the shortcomings that still exist, particularly in
Speaker 1: lack of representation for women of color for example. UM,
Speaker 1: what can we do? What can be done to begin
Speaker 1: to um accelerate that pace? Well, it's part of of
Speaker 1: what I talk about when I talk about the leadership
Speaker 1: opportunities and the leadership challenges for all of us Milan
Speaker 1: and around media. We tend to think, oh, well that's
Speaker 1: not my area. I don't really have a voice there.
Speaker 1: I'm not in the media. Well you know, I'm not
Speaker 1: in the media now either in that I don't hold
Speaker 1: an official position and in a media company or whatever.
Speaker 1: But I'm a big media con consider or and so
Speaker 1: are all the people who are all the women listening
Speaker 1: to us today. And so here's the difference that we
Speaker 1: can all make every single day by what we choose
Speaker 1: to do. How are we using our social media. What
Speaker 1: are we listening to, what are we using? How are
Speaker 1: we um interacting with each other? And how are we
Speaker 1: letting our voices we heard when we're not happy with
Speaker 1: what is being done. Um, it's so it's easy to
Speaker 1: feel dis empowered when in fact, the biggest power we
Speaker 1: have is that off on switch. How that to go
Speaker 1: to or not go to switch? Uh? Every media choice
Speaker 1: we is either an advocacy position for what matters to
Speaker 1: women are it's quite the opposite. Uh. And we won't
Speaker 1: change the power structure unless we let our power of
Speaker 1: voices be heard. I love that, you know, using one's
Speaker 1: power for purpose and in this case what you describe
Speaker 1: seems so simple, but we don't really understand the magnitude
Speaker 1: of the impact we could have. Um. That's so well said, Pat.
Speaker 1: I know you have a passion for leadership and you
Speaker 1: just mentioned women in leadership. Tell us about your recent book. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's quite a title, Becoming a Dangerous Woman, but it's
Speaker 1: essentially a primer for women who want to lead. So
Speaker 1: what leadership lessons do you want women to take from
Speaker 1: the book and from your life story? In writing about
Speaker 1: my life story and work, I really m couldn't imagine
Speaker 1: that that would be the focus of of what I
Speaker 1: wanted to do. So I interviewed a lot of other
Speaker 1: women who I admire tremendously and who I think of
Speaker 1: as dangerous in the good sense of dangerous. So it's
Speaker 1: important to define what I mean by becoming dangerous, and
Speaker 1: it's very simple. I mean being willing to take the
Speaker 1: risk to create change, and that means we have to
Speaker 1: stand up, speak up, and show up. And as leaders,
Speaker 1: women are doing that now in ways we have not
Speaker 1: witnessed in real time the way we're witnessing now in
Speaker 1: this pandemic, we've seen women leaders exemplify and therefore proved
Speaker 1: conclusively in my opinion, that women do lead differently than
Speaker 1: men when we are I shouldn't say, oh men, many
Speaker 1: men and many women, because they're always exceptions. It's hard
Speaker 1: to generalize, but in in very real examples around the world,
Speaker 1: we are watching women now in leadership of countries and
Speaker 1: companies to step forward and do it differently, to look
Speaker 1: at the world through a different lens, which is our
Speaker 1: lens as wives, mothers, sisters, daughters, wherever we identify on
Speaker 1: the gender scale, bringing our female experiences forward and um
Speaker 1: so it's been thrilling to watch some of the women
Speaker 1: who I interviewed in the book, like Stacy Abrams and others,
Speaker 1: see them take their leadership forward into uh the kind
Speaker 1: of outcomes that are undeniable. I'm certainly not saying that
Speaker 1: men don't achieve those same outcomes they do, but in
Speaker 1: order to have a more balanced, more equitable there are
Speaker 1: more just approach to problem solving. We've just got to
Speaker 1: have all perspectives recognized, respected and heard, and women leaders
Speaker 1: around the world now are bringing that forward. Um. So
Speaker 1: for me, it's it's a great testimonial to what you
Speaker 1: and I've been saying all along. And after all, Milan,
Speaker 1: let's recognize that you were the first sort of ambassador
Speaker 1: from this country for women, and that's that made a
Speaker 1: statement about the importance of women's leadership, and you exemplify
Speaker 1: that every day and the work you carried forth from
Speaker 1: that office. Well, thank you, Pat. But you know what
Speaker 1: you've said about the perspective and experiences and talents of
Speaker 1: women that so often aren't a parent or aren't given
Speaker 1: the opportunity UH to be fully participatory. That doesn't just
Speaker 1: short change women, it short change the benefits of what
Speaker 1: they can bring. You talked about objective outcomes, and we
Speaker 1: saw that and continue to see that in the COVID
Speaker 1: crisis with tremendous women's leadership. Senecas one hundred women to hear.
Speaker 1: Will be back after the short break. May I also
Speaker 1: say something I'm alanned about Janet Yellen's recent confirmation the
Speaker 1: first US Secretary of the Treasury. I mean, she said
Speaker 1: in her opening remarks to Congress, you know, we need
Speaker 1: every perspective at the table. We cannot envision our implement
Speaker 1: a just recovery, just economically, even if you put all
Speaker 1: the other ramifications of this pandemic aside, but just to
Speaker 1: look at the economic impact on women adversely worse than
Speaker 1: any other population. Uh and and again particularly communities of color.
Speaker 1: But there again, she said, we've got to have all
Speaker 1: perspectives at the table, and women's perspective through that lens
Speaker 1: is especially important when you look at all policies, all
Speaker 1: economic policies. So boys, that encouraging right to think that
Speaker 1: we'll have a Treasury secretary. You go look at the
Speaker 1: twelve women that Biden has appointed and know that those
Speaker 1: perspectives will balance our look at policy and programs um
Speaker 1: better good for everyone. Well, and that's such an important
Speaker 1: statement for this moment because we do know that women
Speaker 1: have disproportionately been affected by COVID UH and the economic
Speaker 1: dislocation is just catastrophic. So if in building back better
Speaker 1: we don't address uh, the gender piece, if you will,
Speaker 1: we're going to fail in the outcome we want to achieve.
Speaker 1: So thank you for that message. At this moment, I
Speaker 1: would love to add one thing about that, because I've
Speaker 1: been thinking so much about it from this economic perspective,
Speaker 1: in particular, seeing what you you said. We can't have
Speaker 1: a just recovery. It's just not possible without women at
Speaker 1: the center of it. But when I hear people say
Speaker 1: and all of us do, that we want to build
Speaker 1: back better, I've begun to think that a better way,
Speaker 1: in a more female way of looking at that, is
Speaker 1: build forward better. I'm not sure we want to go
Speaker 1: back because we have never gotten back to be an
Speaker 1: equal place. So let's move forward to a more just
Speaker 1: and equitable future. Well that's really quite a quite a
Speaker 1: positive statement, and I think a good one because what
Speaker 1: COVID has done is exposed the deep inequalities UH, and
Speaker 1: we don't want to build back in a way where
Speaker 1: those inequalities continue. But we want to build in a
Speaker 1: way where those inequalities no longer exists. So very good point. Um,
Speaker 1: Let me go back and ask you, as you're talking
Speaker 1: about leadership and the role each of us needs to play,
Speaker 1: what were the greatest leadership lessons you've learned along the way?
Speaker 1: There must have been some impressions you got back when,
Speaker 1: or perhaps more recently that really have stayed with you,
Speaker 1: uh and made you such a strong advocate for women's leadership.
Speaker 1: This is a difficult question for me because I feel
Speaker 1: like I learn something every day, either in a story
Speaker 1: I read about a woman leader or some observation I
Speaker 1: make in a gathering of of women friends. Um, but
Speaker 1: I do think one lesson came through with every single
Speaker 1: woman I interviewed for the book, and really literally every
Speaker 1: single woman I know as a leader. Is that being
Speaker 1: willing to say yes, being prepared, yes, but even taking
Speaker 1: the opportunity, seizing the opportunities when they come, even if
Speaker 1: if you're not if we don't feel fully prepared. Because
Speaker 1: the difference between the men and women's applications for leadership,
Speaker 1: as you know very well, Land, is that we often
Speaker 1: feel as women that we have to take every box.
Speaker 1: We have to be perfectly prepared, we have to know
Speaker 1: everything we need to know. Men don't feel that way,
Speaker 1: and therefore they step forward. So my biggest leadership lesson
Speaker 1: has been step for ward, take take the challenge. Say yes, yes,
Speaker 1: you're risking failure. But one thing I know absolutely from
Speaker 1: my life and the lives of women I know and admire,
Speaker 1: you cannot be successful, are effective, or achieved any of
Speaker 1: the things we want to achieve if we're not also
Speaker 1: willing to risk failing. Yeah, it's something that we've talked
Speaker 1: about in in our book, UM in terms of fast forward,
Speaker 1: that we really do have to accept failure because that's
Speaker 1: how we learn. And if you say this to a scientist,
Speaker 1: they will say, well, it's how we know, uh that
Speaker 1: one thing won't work and we can reach the reach
Speaker 1: out to the next thing. Um. But but for women
Speaker 1: in particular, it seems to be UM that we set
Speaker 1: such a high standard for ourselves that we often fear
Speaker 1: the failure more than taking that step. So that's fabulous advice.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you for that. Truly, what do you
Speaker 1: see in the younger generation of women, because UM, I
Speaker 1: know you've been doing some great work UH in that
Speaker 1: space as well. Are they much more confident? Do they
Speaker 1: step out more? What kinds of challenges do they have,
Speaker 1: or how are they leading differently? But it's my observation
Speaker 1: that this younger generation both has um that great combination
Speaker 1: of anger at where they find themselves with a climate
Speaker 1: crisis that threatens and imperils there in their entire future
Speaker 1: on this planet UM, and all the other inequities that
Speaker 1: that they have been left by generations of in activity,
Speaker 1: and where we haven't accomplished what we need to accomplish.
Speaker 1: So I sense an impatience and yes, a kind of
Speaker 1: righteous anger, and and that's led us in many ways
Speaker 1: to this reckoning that we are feeling global, the racial reckoning,
Speaker 1: and I believe soon a part of that will be
Speaker 1: the gender reckoning that we we need to fix the
Speaker 1: inequalities in our system. But I'm also finding, as we
Speaker 1: have with every generation of women UM, that there there
Speaker 1: are you know, there is still a reluctant to step
Speaker 1: forward and quite the UM way, the collective way that
Speaker 1: I would wish them to do. There's still a group
Speaker 1: that keeps themselves distance from feminism, who misunderstand it, have
Speaker 1: accepted other people's definitions of what that means, and God
Speaker 1: spending a lot of time working with that group of
Speaker 1: young women who need to embrace feminism and all that
Speaker 1: it means. But progress forward, and the biggest challenge Milan,
Speaker 1: I think for all of us is to reach women
Speaker 1: who have been pushed are found themselves for whatever reasons,
Speaker 1: on the other side of the political divide. And so
Speaker 1: this huge divide has developed, and younger women are are
Speaker 1: more open to listening and um and bridging that divide.
Speaker 1: And what I'm finding in my work with connected women leaders,
Speaker 1: which is a cohort of all generations in all sectors,
Speaker 1: is a willingness of this younger generation to try and
Speaker 1: bridge these differences and stories are the bridges. In my opinion, Pat,
Speaker 1: as long as I've known you, you've been optimistic um
Speaker 1: And for many people these are very difficult times, um,
Speaker 1: almost hopeless times in some ways. What gives you hope
Speaker 1: and what makes you so optimistic about the future. I
Speaker 1: once to ask that question my land of Fidel Castro,
Speaker 1: but I've did at a long ether be with him,
Speaker 1: and I couldn't figure out whether he was an optimist
Speaker 1: or a pessimist because he kept sort of fluctuating between
Speaker 1: the two things, and he said something to me that
Speaker 1: I have kept ever since. He said, you cannot be
Speaker 1: a pessimist and be a revolutionary So I think part
Speaker 1: of why I cling uh to optimism even in the
Speaker 1: dark days that we've all gone through, is that I
Speaker 1: still so much believe that we need revolutionary changes. Transformational
Speaker 1: changes is about a way of putting it at so
Speaker 1: many levels, because we're just a far far cry from
Speaker 1: the more just and equitable and sustainable world that we
Speaker 1: have been working our whole lives for so during this time,
Speaker 1: which has been challenging to maintain optimism and and to
Speaker 1: maintain connections, which are the thing that fuel my life.
Speaker 1: As you know, I'm I'm so energized by my global
Speaker 1: sisterhood and particular but um, what keeps me going is
Speaker 1: sort of what my friend Jane Fonda said so many
Speaker 1: months ago when people ask her why she was jumping
Speaker 1: back into a big movement at eight two, and you know,
Speaker 1: she said, I was getting depressed, and what helped me
Speaker 1: fight my depression was getting involved, getting engaged. And that
Speaker 1: is another thing I heard from all the women leaders
Speaker 1: that I've interviewed and worked with and that I'm sure
Speaker 1: you're hearing too, is we can't be dangerous from the sidelines.
Speaker 1: We can't be effective from the sidelines. But we also
Speaker 1: can't be optimistic sitting on the sidelines. It's just too
Speaker 1: much that we witness. UM. I wish I could repeat
Speaker 1: it the way Amanda Gorman did be inauguration, But what
Speaker 1: she said so brilliantly was that we're we're at the hill.
Speaker 1: We the light has come and we have to be
Speaker 1: ready to embrace it, to realize it's unfinished, is unfulfilled,
Speaker 1: all of the things that we want, all of the
Speaker 1: promises of of equality and social justice. But um, we
Speaker 1: have to stay in the light. And more importantly, my
Speaker 1: biggest takeaway from that brilliant point was we have to
Speaker 1: be the light. And in that being, in that doing
Speaker 1: is where I find hope. That is a wonderful way
Speaker 1: to end this extraordinary conversation today. UM, I just want
Speaker 1: to say, Pat Mitchell, you have been the light. You
Speaker 1: continue to be the light, a change maker par excellence.
Speaker 1: I think your advice about staying engaged as the best
Speaker 1: tonic any of us can have. UH and continue to
Speaker 1: climb those mountains because getting to the top. Whatever the
Speaker 1: top represents is really important in life the land. Thank
Speaker 1: you and thank you for being on that mountain bringing
Speaker 1: all the rest of us along. What a terrific perspective
Speaker 1: Pat Mitchell has. Here are three things that stuck with
Speaker 1: me from that conversation. First, as Pat says, each of
Speaker 1: us has a voice and a platform, including through social media,
Speaker 1: we can and should use our platforms to advocate for
Speaker 1: other women. Second, to create change, we have to be
Speaker 1: willing to take risks. That means standing up, speaking up,
Speaker 1: and showing up. And we're fortunate to live at a
Speaker 1: time when we have the great example of women leaders
Speaker 1: around the world who have taken the bold, brave steps
Speaker 1: needed to tackle COVID. Finally, more than ever, we need
Speaker 1: to be talking to people on the other side of
Speaker 1: the political spectrum from ourselves, and that is where Pat
Speaker 1: finds hope today and the willingness of the younger generation
Speaker 1: of women to listen and to bridge the divides that
Speaker 1: keep us apart. Tune in next Tuesday to hear about
Speaker 1: our next featured woman and discover why she's one of
Speaker 1: Seneca's Women to Hear. If you'd like to join the
Speaker 1: Seneca Women Network, go to Seneca Women dot com. There
Speaker 1: you'll get access to exclusive events and workshops, plus updates
Speaker 1: on new podcasts and other opportunities to get involved. Seneca's
Speaker 1: one hundred Women to Hear is a collaboration between the
Speaker 1: Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio, with support
Speaker 1: from founding partner PNG. Have a great Day.