WEBVTT - Session 450: Reproductive Psychiatry

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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<v Speaker 1>conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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<v Speaker 1>decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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<v Speaker 1>of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,

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<v Speaker 1>a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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<v Speaker 1>to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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<v Speaker 1>at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you

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<v Speaker 1>love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is

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<v Speaker 1>not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with

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<v Speaker 1>a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

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<v Speaker 1>for joining me for session four, p. Fifty of the

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<v Speaker 1>Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our

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<v Speaker 1>conversation after a word from our sponsors. Reproductive health is

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<v Speaker 1>often discussed in terms of our physical bodies, but what

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<v Speaker 1>about our mental and emotional will being across the reproductive

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<v Speaker 1>black span. In today's conversation, I'm joined by doctor Mimi Sanders,

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<v Speaker 1>a board certified psychiatrist specializing in reproductive psychiatry, to help

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<v Speaker 1>us better understand the unique mental health needs that can

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<v Speaker 1>show up during menstruation, pregnancy, postpartum fertility challenges, pregnancy laws,

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<v Speaker 1>and menopause. We explore what reproductive psychiatry is, why it's

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<v Speaker 1>especially important for Black women, how mood and anxiety disorders

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<v Speaker 1>can show up during major reproductive transitions, and what it

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<v Speaker 1>looks like to advocate for yourself when navigating mental health

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<v Speaker 1>care during these seasons. Doctor Sanders also breaks down common

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<v Speaker 1>myths about medication during pregnancy and postpartum, and shares what supportive,

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<v Speaker 1>culturally responsive care should look like. If something resonates with

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<v Speaker 1>you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on

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<v Speaker 1>social media using the hashtag TVG in Session, or join

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<v Speaker 1>us over in our Patreon to talk more about the episode.

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<v Speaker 1>You can join us at community dot therapy forro Blackgirls

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<v Speaker 1>dot com. Here's our conversation. Well, thank you so much

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<v Speaker 1>for joining us today, doctor Vivie.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, thank you for having me. I'm excited.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So, you had such a unique career journey thus

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<v Speaker 1>for so tell us about your career as a psychiatrist

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<v Speaker 1>and on reality television, And I think this is always

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<v Speaker 1>interesting for the sisters in the community who may be

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<v Speaker 1>exploring medicine. How did you choose psychiatry as a career path?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, very unique. I often tell myself, Hey, You never

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<v Speaker 2>know what is going to be around the corner, so

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<v Speaker 2>just be prepared to pivot. I'm originally from Alabama. I

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<v Speaker 2>went to undergrads at Tennessee State University, and at that

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<v Speaker 2>time I wanted to be a pharmacist and I was

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<v Speaker 2>doing like my chemistry and all the prerecs. But then

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<v Speaker 2>I discovered, hey, I you know, I like kind of

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<v Speaker 2>medicine as well. What does that look like? And I

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<v Speaker 2>entered into like a program after undergrad and it was

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<v Speaker 2>for just those who were just wanting to do more

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<v Speaker 2>medicine but not necessarily had really fully necessarily committed, but

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<v Speaker 2>I want to explore, and so I entered into this

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<v Speaker 2>program during the summer after I graduated from Tennessee State

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<v Speaker 2>University at Ohio University, and it was my first time

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<v Speaker 2>being exposed to what a doctor of osteopathic medicine was,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was really focused on general practition and those

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<v Speaker 2>of like primary care, and so I kind of fell

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<v Speaker 2>in love with really okay, I really like to know

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<v Speaker 2>everything about the person, and also behavioral health kind of

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<v Speaker 2>fell in that as well. So I entered into Ohio

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<v Speaker 2>University for a medical school and stay there, and it

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<v Speaker 2>was just different experience. I was coming from a historically

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<v Speaker 2>black university and now I am in Appalachia, So I'm like, okay, Lord,

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<v Speaker 2>you're giving me all types of experiences in my life.

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<v Speaker 2>And then just from there just met really good like

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<v Speaker 2>friendships and just really had a really good experience. And

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<v Speaker 2>I left there and went to Cleveland Clinic and from

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<v Speaker 2>there that did my residency. At that time, I had

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<v Speaker 2>decided on psychiatry, And your question was how did I

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<v Speaker 2>decide on that? And it was not until maybe one

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<v Speaker 2>of my last rotations as a medical student, I'm like, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't like surgery. I'm not necessarily a person that

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<v Speaker 2>wants to do a true specialty of dermatology. I really

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to explore more yes of my primary general practitioner

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<v Speaker 2>kind of experience and background. But I found myself in

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<v Speaker 2>my clerkship of my rotation in psychiatry on an inpatient ward.

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<v Speaker 2>On that ward, I saw a lot of persons of color,

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<v Speaker 2>and I didn't see at that time where I was

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<v Speaker 2>doing my rotation of a lot of those in those

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<v Speaker 2>crisis situations of the majority. So I didn't see a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of those who are Caucasian, and I was wondering

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<v Speaker 2>why was that. And when I went from an in

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<v Speaker 2>patient setting to the outpatient setting, then I saw more

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<v Speaker 2>of those who were Caucasian and really exploring those preventative

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<v Speaker 2>measures of their mental health and emotional well being. And

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<v Speaker 2>that is kind of where I fell in love with psychiatry.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm just like, you know what, I really know

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<v Speaker 2>that I can relate to a lot of individuals because

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<v Speaker 2>of my background and because of my life experiences, but

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<v Speaker 2>I really want to be a representative of that Black

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<v Speaker 2>community of a psychiatrist that we necessarily don't have to

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<v Speaker 2>see someone in crises. We can have that particular representative

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<v Speaker 2>as an outpatient and really work on what is proactive

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<v Speaker 2>in my own mental health health. I have someone that

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<v Speaker 2>I can relate to, I can talk about these things.

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<v Speaker 2>They understand my spirituality and they understand that, hey, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not necessarily having a psychotist if I am talking to

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<v Speaker 2>the Lord. And so it was just that particular experience

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<v Speaker 2>that in me wanting to fill in that gap or

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<v Speaker 2>that void and be truly a representative of this is

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<v Speaker 2>what it looks like or what it could look like

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<v Speaker 2>for proactive preventative mental health and going to see a psychiatrist.

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<v Speaker 2>But funny story. Also, my mom, when I told her

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to be a psychiatrist, her being from the

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<v Speaker 2>deep south of Alabama, she was like, so you going

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<v Speaker 2>to medical school and you're not going to be a

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<v Speaker 2>real doctor. And I said, mom, Mom, And so just

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<v Speaker 2>knowing that, and now she's very well educated and she

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<v Speaker 2>knows all things about mental health and going to see

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<v Speaker 2>someone and medications, and just knowing that that is how

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<v Speaker 2>we were. It's gotten much better now, but this is

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<v Speaker 2>how we thought about going to see a psychiatrist. So

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<v Speaker 2>that is kind of where I fell in love with it.

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<v Speaker 2>To be honest, I don't like to get down and

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<v Speaker 2>dirty in terms of physical exam Like I really loved

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<v Speaker 2>talking to people. I love doing that particular type of examination.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's how I landed.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that story because I think

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<v Speaker 1>that that can pop up in lots of different ways, right,

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<v Speaker 1>Like not just stigma around like medical specialties, but also

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<v Speaker 1>I think the stigma related to mental health in some ways, right,

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<v Speaker 1>I think that is deep seated for a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>our families.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, So is the focus on prevention that you

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<v Speaker 1>saw what led you to develop your private practice Inner

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<v Speaker 1>community Health.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes and no. So my practice inner community health. It

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<v Speaker 2>started back in actually in COVID, so it was a

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<v Speaker 2>virtual practice. And so I was working while in COVID

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<v Speaker 2>as any psychiatrist as well as now self employed doing

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<v Speaker 2>my virtual practice. And usually during this time, I had

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of women reaching out because we were all

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<v Speaker 2>confined and we're like, okay, I can't set these particular

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<v Speaker 2>boundaries that I thought I had in terms of work

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<v Speaker 2>and life and children and husband and cooking and now

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<v Speaker 2>working again. And I had a lot of women reaching

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<v Speaker 2>out and say, hey, I need some help. I have

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<v Speaker 2>not navigated this before. And I said, well, let me

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<v Speaker 2>just open up my schedule and let's just see what

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<v Speaker 2>this looks like. And it was again mostly women. And

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<v Speaker 2>during that time, also as an employed psychiatrist, I was

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<v Speaker 2>working in Cleveland Clinics Women's mental health department and not

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<v Speaker 2>necessarily knowing what that was, but I just knew that

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<v Speaker 2>I was drawn to women that had these life experiences,

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<v Speaker 2>whether it was pregnancy loss, postpartum, postpartum depression as well

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<v Speaker 2>as anxiety, and them really wanting to come to the

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<v Speaker 2>office and really say, hey, I have a place to go,

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<v Speaker 2>I have someone that understands me and also me going

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<v Speaker 2>through my own particular journey in motherhood really made me gravitate.

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<v Speaker 2>So just disclosure my graduated residency, I was going through

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<v Speaker 2>my own particular transition like Okay, I'm attending, now what's next.

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<v Speaker 2>Got married during that first year, I lost my grandmother

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<v Speaker 2>during that first year out of residency, and I had

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<v Speaker 2>a miscarriage, and so going through all those particular life

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<v Speaker 2>transitions and not knowing where to turn. So here I

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<v Speaker 2>am as a psychiatrist telling my clients or patients these

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<v Speaker 2>coping strategies what to do, and I'm really not practicing

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<v Speaker 2>what I'm telling them. So I'm not practicing what I'm preaching.

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<v Speaker 2>And if I do want to have help or search

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<v Speaker 2>out that particular individual, I did not know where to go.

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<v Speaker 2>I knew myself because I need to go to someone

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<v Speaker 2>that I can receive this information from. I needed to

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<v Speaker 2>go to someone that I can feel that I can

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<v Speaker 2>relate to. And that is why I think, ultimately, Hey,

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<v Speaker 2>where is this place or how could I develop this

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<v Speaker 2>space this place where I as a mother, I as

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<v Speaker 2>a woman would want to go to and not go

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<v Speaker 2>to a particular place where it's not conducive to my

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<v Speaker 2>mental health, like my provider perhaps doesn't get me, or

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<v Speaker 2>like the physical location is kind of like dim and

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<v Speaker 2>not conducive to my mental health. It's not inviting or

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<v Speaker 2>giving me aspirations. And so that is what I wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to create for my women. I wanted to create a

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<v Speaker 2>space that I know that I would want to go to,

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<v Speaker 2>that I will feel comfortable and I know that I'm

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<v Speaker 2>getting the necessary tools that I know that I needed

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<v Speaker 2>at that time of my life.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so you have further specialized in reproductive psychiatry. Can

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<v Speaker 1>you say more about that specialty.

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<v Speaker 2>So, reproductive psychiatry is basically a specialty in psychiatry where

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<v Speaker 2>we follow the women throughout her reproductive cycle. So that

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<v Speaker 2>can be whether it is challenges with infertility, whether it

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<v Speaker 2>is miscarriages or even elective or even spontaneous abortions, those

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<v Speaker 2>who are pregnant or desiring to get pregnant, those who

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<v Speaker 2>have had their child. And now maybe I'm going through

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<v Speaker 2>something that is further than the baby blues, maybe I'm

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<v Speaker 2>having some postpartum mood or anxiety symptoms or even psychosis.

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<v Speaker 2>And then also traveling with that woman when you go

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<v Speaker 2>through mental pause or perimental pausal symptoms, So really understanding

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<v Speaker 2>that we're very complex and we have hormones, we have

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<v Speaker 2>other challenges as relates to all the many things or

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<v Speaker 2>people that are pulling on to us, and so just

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<v Speaker 2>following her throughout her cycle, her journey just as a woman.

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<v Speaker 1>And have you found that this reproductive kind of spectrum

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<v Speaker 1>is where many women actually turn to wanting to have

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<v Speaker 1>some mental health support or their particular challenges that you

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<v Speaker 1>found that pop up during this period that make somebody

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<v Speaker 1>more likely to seek out services.

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<v Speaker 2>I have found that some women or just general population

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<v Speaker 2>don't know that we exist. And once they find out

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<v Speaker 2>that we exist and we are a place where we

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<v Speaker 2>can really relate to each other and hey, yes I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not sleeping and I'm forty five or I'm close to

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<v Speaker 2>mental pause. Is that something yes, we can really think

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<v Speaker 2>about that. Also having some cognitive or brain fog, Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>that may be associated with perimental pause. So really educating

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<v Speaker 2>others and letting them know that we exist and there

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<v Speaker 2>is help. And so I do say, yes, we productive psychiatry,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's just in general women's mental health and whatever

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<v Speaker 2>that means to you that if we don't have it here,

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<v Speaker 2>we can provide resources where it is for therapy met

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<v Speaker 2>management groups. So really understanding that we exist and educating

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<v Speaker 2>the population that this is a specialty in psychiatry.

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<v Speaker 1>That can mean mean one of the things we talk

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<v Speaker 1>about on the podcast, and that I feel like lots

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<v Speaker 1>more women are talking about and getting diagnoses for things

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<v Speaker 1>like PCOS and endometriosis. We know that there's like the

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<v Speaker 1>medical kind of symptom side, Well, what are some of

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<v Speaker 1>the mental health challenges that come up with something like

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<v Speaker 1>a diagnosis like PCOS.

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<v Speaker 2>Well with PCs, and this is like as we can

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<v Speaker 2>just generalize it as some times of ovarian challenge or

0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:18.600
<v Speaker 2>ovarian failure, and so there's a lot of symptoms that

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<v Speaker 2>may come with that, whether it's physical symptoms of like ecniques,

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<v Speaker 2>assive hair growth and fertility or problems conceiving, and so

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<v Speaker 2>that can really play a part in someone's mental health journey,

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<v Speaker 2>whether it is self esteem, whether that is some type

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<v Speaker 2>of guilt or shame and just anxiety. If you are

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<v Speaker 2>family planning, what does that look like for me? And

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<v Speaker 2>providing that support to that the client as well as

0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:50.160
<v Speaker 2>providing that support if you're working with your ovg U

0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:54.040
<v Speaker 2>I N I think it's very necessary those patients are

0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:57.560
<v Speaker 2>clients that I have with those particular diagnoses. They deal

0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:01.120
<v Speaker 2>with the uncertainty and so that uncertain of me wanting

0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:03.959
<v Speaker 2>to have a child, the uncertainty of what are these

0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:06.600
<v Speaker 2>medications that my obgi in has put me on, whether

0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:09.320
<v Speaker 2>it is some type of bird control peel, what type

0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:11.320
<v Speaker 2>of pill that is that gon'll cause me to have

0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:14.880
<v Speaker 2>some mood swings. So really supporting that patient through this

0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:18.240
<v Speaker 2>journey of whatever she chooses. Hey, I'm on this to

0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:21.520
<v Speaker 2>regulate any type of physical symptoms that I may be experiencing.

0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:25.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm on this medication to make sure that I'm putting

0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:28.600
<v Speaker 2>myself in the big chance to conceive or have a

0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:33.120
<v Speaker 2>family plan just knowing that, Hey, we see you, we

0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:37.000
<v Speaker 2>understand what you may be going through. There's some resources

0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:39.800
<v Speaker 2>here and it goes far to you on just medications,

0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:41.680
<v Speaker 2>it can just be okay, I'm here to listen. I'm

0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.000
<v Speaker 2>here to listen to for your concerns and what are

0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:47.240
<v Speaker 2>your goals we can have a treatment plan altogether.

0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:51.360
<v Speaker 1>And what is your approach to medication management For somebody

0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:53.880
<v Speaker 1>who may be struggling with something like anxiety and depression

0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:56.720
<v Speaker 1>if they are also kind of on the fertility journey. Right,

0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:59.120
<v Speaker 1>So maybe they are taking fertility medications.

0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:03.440
<v Speaker 2>What's that a So, to be honest, my ladies come

0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:05.960
<v Speaker 2>in apprehensive. They come in, Okay, I don't know about

0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:08.880
<v Speaker 2>these medications, and I heard about you psychiatrists. You guys

0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.920
<v Speaker 2>are going to prescribe these medications and I tell them, no,

0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:16.480
<v Speaker 2>it's individualize and I'm going to tell you my recommendations.

0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:20.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to also communicate to you that, hey, this

0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:22.880
<v Speaker 2>is what I am hearing from you in terms of

0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:27.080
<v Speaker 2>any impairment, whether it is in your sleep, your mood,

0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:30.760
<v Speaker 2>your appetite, just in any impairment in your quality of life.

0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:33.520
<v Speaker 2>And my job as a psychiatrist is to let you

0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.360
<v Speaker 2>know your options. And so if you are going on

0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:40.400
<v Speaker 2>your fertility journey and I can understand why you are

0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:44.560
<v Speaker 2>a little bit hesitant of adding another medication, I can say, hey,

0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:48.800
<v Speaker 2>there is limited research and that's just the nature of

0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:51.479
<v Speaker 2>it in terms of you're dealing with women of infertility

0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:54.280
<v Speaker 2>or pregnant women that we have limited research, but there

0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:58.440
<v Speaker 2>is some out there. But there is some reviews saying

0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.440
<v Speaker 2>that hey, even if you're on the medications like an SRI,

0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:07.000
<v Speaker 2>a selective serotonin uptake inhibitor and those different parameters in

0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:09.880
<v Speaker 2>terms of your ability to conceive. It has not shown

0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:15.320
<v Speaker 2>any particular detrimental effects of you in your inability to

0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:19.160
<v Speaker 2>conceive while you're going on this journey. But everything is

0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:23.960
<v Speaker 2>individualized to you, so we have to weigh out all

0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.200
<v Speaker 2>risk and benefits. As a psychiatrist or a medical doctor,

0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:30.760
<v Speaker 2>I work closely with the obguy is to make sure

0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.320
<v Speaker 2>I know all the medications that you're taking. We're doing

0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:35.920
<v Speaker 2>drug interactions, making sure my stuff is I'm missing with

0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:40.960
<v Speaker 2>her stuff, And it's really having that necessary collaborative care

0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:45.120
<v Speaker 2>to make you feel comfortable and let you know your options.

0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:48.640
<v Speaker 2>But I'm going to let you know hesis like, we

0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:51.760
<v Speaker 2>need to make sure that you are good because when

0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:57.320
<v Speaker 2>you do conceive that we are reducing our particular risk

0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:01.000
<v Speaker 2>of low birth rate or pre term labor. We're really

0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.800
<v Speaker 2>looking at the risk and benefits for you as well

0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:08.200
<v Speaker 2>as the baby. It's a team effort and understand and

0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:10.640
<v Speaker 2>that at the center of the team it's you as

0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:12.840
<v Speaker 2>the client and the patient. So I'm gonna tell you

0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:16.520
<v Speaker 2>my recommendations, the OBGUI is gonna tell you her recommendations,

0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:18.280
<v Speaker 2>and we're gonna all work together and make sure you

0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:20.200
<v Speaker 2>feel heard and sing mm hmm.

0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.119
<v Speaker 1>You know another place where this often comes up around

0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:25.960
<v Speaker 1>do I take medication do I not? Is actually after

0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:29.080
<v Speaker 1>somebody has given birth, right and maybe they're breastfeeding, and

0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:32.320
<v Speaker 1>so there may be still some like anxiety depression symptoms

0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:35.320
<v Speaker 1>that medication actually could be really helpful for. But I

0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:38.040
<v Speaker 1>think a lot of new moms are very concerned like, oh,

0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:40.240
<v Speaker 1>this is gonna be harmful to the baby. Can you

0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:42.280
<v Speaker 1>talk a little bit about some of the considerations of

0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:44.119
<v Speaker 1>taking medication, like when you're breastfeeding.

0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.520
<v Speaker 2>So if we're dealing with depression or anxiety, my go

0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:50.520
<v Speaker 2>to has been searchling and that's just how I have

0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:54.040
<v Speaker 2>been trained. They have those parameters you look for. Okay,

0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:55.520
<v Speaker 2>it's just safe the lactation.

0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:56.239
<v Speaker 1>Yes it is.

0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:59.520
<v Speaker 2>How does this work with when I'm pregnant? And do

0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:02.040
<v Speaker 2>I have to taper off my medications when I get

0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:06.960
<v Speaker 2>pregnant again? It depends on how you are doing and

0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:10.000
<v Speaker 2>making sure that we're weighing risk and benefits. Have I

0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:13.040
<v Speaker 2>had clients that have done great on this medication. Oh

0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:17.080
<v Speaker 2>you're pregnant, awesome, How are you feeling? What are your concerns?

0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:20.320
<v Speaker 2>And Doctor Sanders or doctor Mimi, I'm good, keep me

0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:23.159
<v Speaker 2>on my medication. Okay, I'm going to let you know

0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:24.560
<v Speaker 2>that we're going to be seeing each other a little

0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:27.359
<v Speaker 2>bit more frequently. I'm going to be monitoring your mood

0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.719
<v Speaker 2>and sending you all types of screenings to your portal

0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:33.040
<v Speaker 2>more frequently. And so I'm your extra set of ears

0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.280
<v Speaker 2>and eyes, and you tell me how you're feeling, whether

0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.720
<v Speaker 2>it's once a week, so really having that communication. But

0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:43.960
<v Speaker 2>there's research saying that hey, stand on this medication is

0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:46.560
<v Speaker 2>good for you and the baby, especially if you have

0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:49.800
<v Speaker 2>experienced depression in the past prior to pregnancy. We know

0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:52.080
<v Speaker 2>that you're at greater risk, and we want to make

0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:55.200
<v Speaker 2>sure that we're making an environment from a pregnancy standpoint,

0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:57.800
<v Speaker 2>from a postpartum standpoint that is conduces for you and

0:18:57.840 --> 0:18:58.280
<v Speaker 2>the child.

0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:12.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, more from our conversation after the break. So

0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:15.600
<v Speaker 1>in addition to conversations around medicine, we've already talked a

0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:18.840
<v Speaker 1>little bit about like unpacking the stigmas that are sometimes

0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.560
<v Speaker 1>related to things like fertility or just kind of I

0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:24.119
<v Speaker 1>think mental health in general in the black community. What

0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:25.800
<v Speaker 1>does that look like when you were working with your

0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:28.200
<v Speaker 1>clients to help them kind of unpack some of these stigmas.

0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:33.040
<v Speaker 2>So considering that there perhaps would be some type of

0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:37.120
<v Speaker 2>going on a fertility journey, and depending on how long

0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:39.520
<v Speaker 2>you've been on it, there can be some issues around

0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:44.360
<v Speaker 2>your womanhood. And this is what I grew up of

0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.720
<v Speaker 2>wanting to I'm able to produce. This is how I

0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:50.080
<v Speaker 2>grew up people around me, this is what we were

0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:52.280
<v Speaker 2>made for in terms of women in order to have

0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:54.760
<v Speaker 2>a child. And if I'm having some type of challenges

0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:57.719
<v Speaker 2>or barriers, what does that mean for me as a woman?

0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:02.359
<v Speaker 2>And so I look at that and we challenge those thoughts.

0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:04.439
<v Speaker 2>We challenge those thoughts and say, Okay, what do you

0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:07.920
<v Speaker 2>believe in terms of your womanhood and do you know

0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:11.399
<v Speaker 2>your particular options when it comes to the different types

0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:17.439
<v Speaker 2>of assistant reproductive technology or fertility treatments. So really leading

0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:21.679
<v Speaker 2>into those particular thoughts that you have as a woman,

0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:26.879
<v Speaker 2>how you define your womanhood, challenging any particular shame, letting

0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:29.240
<v Speaker 2>you know that you don't have to go through this alone,

0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:32.600
<v Speaker 2>and if you feel yourself having to hide this or

0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:35.200
<v Speaker 2>feel is secretive, that here's a place that you can

0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:38.920
<v Speaker 2>really be vulnerable and have a deeper dive of what

0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:42.600
<v Speaker 2>that looks like for you going through this journey and

0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:45.680
<v Speaker 2>as it relates to taking medication, you take a medication

0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:48.240
<v Speaker 2>does not mean that you are weak. Does that mean

0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:50.159
<v Speaker 2>that you need a little bit extra push. No, it

0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:52.480
<v Speaker 2>just means that, hey, this is the right treatment option

0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:55.879
<v Speaker 2>for me in this season. And do I have to

0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:58.080
<v Speaker 2>be on medication for the rest of my life? No,

0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:00.240
<v Speaker 2>But if you want to, I have pages and say,

0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:03.360
<v Speaker 2>don't touch anything that I'm doing fine, I am operating,

0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:06.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm living the best quality of life. I really love

0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:10.159
<v Speaker 2>how I feel. And so it's really looking at that

0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:13.160
<v Speaker 2>person or the client making sure that I hear you.

0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:16.840
<v Speaker 2>I see you. I'm not devaluing your concerns, but I

0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:19.800
<v Speaker 2>want to educate you as much as possible and let

0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:22.879
<v Speaker 2>you also challenge any of those false beliefs that you

0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:27.000
<v Speaker 2>have had about what womanhood means to you and not

0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:29.320
<v Speaker 2>what the expectations have been placed on you.

0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:32.760
<v Speaker 1>So you know what I mean. I feel like we've

0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:37.840
<v Speaker 1>had growing conversations around things like postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety.

0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:40.119
<v Speaker 1>But what kinds of things do you feel like we

0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:42.560
<v Speaker 1>still need to talk more about as it relates to

0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:45.159
<v Speaker 1>the postpartum period in a woman's life.

0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:48.800
<v Speaker 2>So when we hear postpartum automatically. I've seen that patients

0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:52.720
<v Speaker 2>think postpartum depression, and we really are not leaning into

0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:56.800
<v Speaker 2>post part of anxiety, which I see more in my clinic.

0:21:56.920 --> 0:22:00.399
<v Speaker 2>Is that post part of anxiety and that separate racial

0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:04.959
<v Speaker 2>anxiety that the new mom has with her baby. I

0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:07.720
<v Speaker 2>also think that we need to lean more into what

0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:11.560
<v Speaker 2>does me returning to work look like? And what does

0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:15.640
<v Speaker 2>this new normal look like? And is there options for

0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:19.560
<v Speaker 2>me to spend more time to bond with my baby

0:22:20.040 --> 0:22:22.679
<v Speaker 2>and what does that look like? And so I have

0:22:23.000 --> 0:22:25.919
<v Speaker 2>had many patients come to me and say, I'm just

0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:28.719
<v Speaker 2>not ready to return to work. I fear that no

0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:30.880
<v Speaker 2>one can take care of that baby like I can.

0:22:31.400 --> 0:22:33.120
<v Speaker 2>I feel that I'm going to miss out on some

0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:37.480
<v Speaker 2>particular mouthstones when I'm at work. And then we look

0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:39.480
<v Speaker 2>at that and said, okay, what else do you need?

0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:43.959
<v Speaker 2>And so what was your postpartum plan and have we

0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:46.800
<v Speaker 2>deviated from that? If so, how are we in terms

0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:52.280
<v Speaker 2>of our pivot? What are our options and what are truths? So, yes,

0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:54.959
<v Speaker 2>you are doing a great job as a mom, and

0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:58.480
<v Speaker 2>you have those particular safety concerns, but is that postpartum

0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:02.480
<v Speaker 2>anxiety leaning more in terms of obsessiveness? And you having

0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:04.639
<v Speaker 2>to check that monitor a little bit too often. Now

0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:07.400
<v Speaker 2>you can't take care of yourself and you're not sleeping.

0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:09.760
<v Speaker 2>We're trying to get the sleep that you can on

0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:12.880
<v Speaker 2>when the baby is sleeping. So just leading more into

0:23:13.200 --> 0:23:16.280
<v Speaker 2>looking into post part of anxiety and not always thinking

0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:20.320
<v Speaker 2>that it's postpartum depression and that post part of anxiety

0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:24.640
<v Speaker 2>can lead to secondary depression, but really saying, okay, what

0:23:24.840 --> 0:23:28.280
<v Speaker 2>is that anxiety? Is it interfering with me taking care

0:23:28.280 --> 0:23:31.320
<v Speaker 2>of myself therefore also interfering with me taking care of

0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:33.679
<v Speaker 2>my baby the best way I can. What does that

0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:38.119
<v Speaker 2>separation anxiety look like? And what is realistic plans for

0:23:38.200 --> 0:23:40.520
<v Speaker 2>me to return to work? And if I'm not ready,

0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:43.480
<v Speaker 2>how can I have that conversation with my physicians or

0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:45.840
<v Speaker 2>with your psychiatrists so we can have a really good

0:23:45.840 --> 0:23:47.159
<v Speaker 2>plan for you and the child.

0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:50.199
<v Speaker 1>So how do you know, doctor Mimi, if something is

0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:52.959
<v Speaker 1>just normal kind of especially for first time moms, right, like,

0:23:53.000 --> 0:23:56.879
<v Speaker 1>how is it different? How is just regular new mom anxiety? Like,

0:23:56.880 --> 0:23:58.959
<v Speaker 1>oh my gosh, what do I do? How do I

0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:00.840
<v Speaker 1>take care of this baby? How do you know when

0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:02.919
<v Speaker 1>it is crossed the line to be the something that

0:24:03.040 --> 0:24:05.160
<v Speaker 1>might meet criteria for anxiety and that you might need

0:24:05.200 --> 0:24:06.360
<v Speaker 1>to talk with someone about it.

0:24:06.720 --> 0:24:10.000
<v Speaker 2>So I asked them to give me a time period.

0:24:10.480 --> 0:24:14.120
<v Speaker 2>So let's just say, Okay, I'm anxious got your baby's safety.

0:24:14.600 --> 0:24:16.720
<v Speaker 2>And so I'm asking you, well, how many times are

0:24:16.720 --> 0:24:19.080
<v Speaker 2>you checking that monitor? And when are you checking it?

0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:22.639
<v Speaker 2>And some patients will say I'm not even checking the

0:24:22.640 --> 0:24:26.280
<v Speaker 2>monitor and I'm sleeping outside the door, or you know,

0:24:26.920 --> 0:24:29.720
<v Speaker 2>Or I said, well, have we interview if you do

0:24:29.760 --> 0:24:33.520
<v Speaker 2>a daycare, have we interviewed any particular nannies. They have

0:24:33.640 --> 0:24:36.280
<v Speaker 2>this idea of the baby can come with them, she

0:24:36.359 --> 0:24:39.080
<v Speaker 2>can't leave them and go to target with her mother.

0:24:39.320 --> 0:24:42.320
<v Speaker 2>What she knows is a safe person. And so I'm

0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:45.879
<v Speaker 2>asking them, okay, how are you maneuvering through life? And

0:24:46.000 --> 0:24:49.639
<v Speaker 2>how many hours out the day are you having to

0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:54.840
<v Speaker 2>obsess over the safety your concerns for your child. And

0:24:55.040 --> 0:24:57.560
<v Speaker 2>I look at that and say, okay, out of the

0:24:57.640 --> 0:25:01.760
<v Speaker 2>twenty four hour period you're spending just say this twelve

0:25:01.840 --> 0:25:06.160
<v Speaker 2>hours plus really focusing on hey, what if I did

0:25:06.200 --> 0:25:08.879
<v Speaker 2>not bathe the baby right? What if they did not

0:25:09.000 --> 0:25:12.360
<v Speaker 2>shake up the bottle this many times at that feeding?

0:25:12.760 --> 0:25:15.640
<v Speaker 2>So just really looking into those particular thoughts and say Okay,

0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:19.320
<v Speaker 2>are they rational? Were you thinking like this prior to pregnancy?

0:25:19.680 --> 0:25:22.480
<v Speaker 2>And don't just really having that good interview with the

0:25:22.520 --> 0:25:28.000
<v Speaker 2>mom and just debunking those particular myths of no one

0:25:28.200 --> 0:25:31.240
<v Speaker 2>can take care of the baby like you can. Granted

0:25:31.320 --> 0:25:34.600
<v Speaker 2>you are that child's mom and you have that particular bonding,

0:25:34.920 --> 0:25:37.440
<v Speaker 2>but also you know that you have to have some

0:25:37.480 --> 0:25:40.840
<v Speaker 2>support and knowing that, hey, I can trust my partner,

0:25:40.880 --> 0:25:44.400
<v Speaker 2>I can trust any other family supports around me, so

0:25:44.480 --> 0:25:47.200
<v Speaker 2>I can take care of myself. Are you showering? Are

0:25:47.240 --> 0:25:50.000
<v Speaker 2>you feeding yourself? Are you really taking care of yourself?

0:25:50.040 --> 0:25:53.720
<v Speaker 2>And has those things gone neglected because of you obsessing

0:25:53.880 --> 0:25:57.520
<v Speaker 2>or being very anxious about your child? So we really

0:25:58.240 --> 0:26:01.040
<v Speaker 2>take a deeper dive of like what does this look like?

0:26:01.480 --> 0:26:04.040
<v Speaker 2>And it's this, Okay, it's this rational for you. And

0:26:04.080 --> 0:26:06.520
<v Speaker 2>so I will find my lady saying no, I should

0:26:06.560 --> 0:26:09.560
<v Speaker 2>be able to not sleep outside the door, or I

0:26:09.560 --> 0:26:12.359
<v Speaker 2>should be able to leave my baby with my mom

0:26:12.440 --> 0:26:15.000
<v Speaker 2>in order for me to go get me a cup

0:26:15.000 --> 0:26:18.360
<v Speaker 2>of soup or something. So it's just really listening to

0:26:18.400 --> 0:26:21.360
<v Speaker 2>her and allow herself to listen to her own thoughts

0:26:21.400 --> 0:26:25.399
<v Speaker 2>and challenging and facilitating the challenging of those thoughts. So,

0:26:25.480 --> 0:26:29.639
<v Speaker 2>but really again leaning into that postpart anxiety, that separation,

0:26:30.359 --> 0:26:33.360
<v Speaker 2>that guilt of hey, I'm going to miss every milestone

0:26:33.400 --> 0:26:36.600
<v Speaker 2>if I do return to work. No, no, no, you're not.

0:26:36.720 --> 0:26:40.600
<v Speaker 2>You are You are engaged in your child's development, and

0:26:40.680 --> 0:26:43.240
<v Speaker 2>you will know and you will be able to experience

0:26:43.280 --> 0:26:45.800
<v Speaker 2>those things. But we are not devaluing how you're feeling.

0:26:45.800 --> 0:26:47.240
<v Speaker 2>We just want to make sure that you're taking care

0:26:47.240 --> 0:26:48.560
<v Speaker 2>of yourself. M h.

0:26:49.320 --> 0:26:52.320
<v Speaker 1>You mentioned the baby monitor, and I feel like technology

0:26:52.359 --> 0:26:55.240
<v Speaker 1>has evolved so much beyond monitors, right, so now there's

0:26:55.280 --> 0:26:57.679
<v Speaker 1>a little sock the baby can wear, there's something you

0:26:57.720 --> 0:27:00.840
<v Speaker 1>can put under their mattress. How do you feel about

0:27:00.880 --> 0:27:03.439
<v Speaker 1>these tools, Like do you feel like they're actually helping

0:27:03.520 --> 0:27:06.520
<v Speaker 1>moms and parents to kind of manage anxiety or do

0:27:06.560 --> 0:27:08.159
<v Speaker 1>you feel like in some ways they can kind of

0:27:08.160 --> 0:27:09.080
<v Speaker 1>increase the anxiety.

0:27:09.119 --> 0:27:11.840
<v Speaker 2>In some ways, it's increasing it because now you have

0:27:11.920 --> 0:27:14.360
<v Speaker 2>different parameters that you're trying to make sure that you're

0:27:14.359 --> 0:27:17.719
<v Speaker 2>staying within. It's just a lot of noises and things

0:27:17.760 --> 0:27:20.480
<v Speaker 2>and notifications are going out. And so imagine if you're

0:27:20.520 --> 0:27:25.280
<v Speaker 2>already anxious and your hormones are already all over the place,

0:27:25.640 --> 0:27:28.440
<v Speaker 2>and now you're having all these apps and notifications come

0:27:28.480 --> 0:27:30.959
<v Speaker 2>on your phone, and so I would tell them, hey,

0:27:31.040 --> 0:27:33.840
<v Speaker 2>let's just turn off too, Let's turn it off, and

0:27:33.880 --> 0:27:36.000
<v Speaker 2>then okay, how are we feeling? We feel it? Okay,

0:27:36.600 --> 0:27:39.800
<v Speaker 2>was baby girl? Baby boy? Okay? Yes, we can still

0:27:39.880 --> 0:27:42.800
<v Speaker 2>watch the monitor and if you're at daycare, yes, zoom

0:27:42.840 --> 0:27:45.280
<v Speaker 2>in and let me see what you guys are doing

0:27:45.320 --> 0:27:47.919
<v Speaker 2>over there. But we have to make sure that we

0:27:48.080 --> 0:27:52.080
<v Speaker 2>are not exaggerating our anxiety with all these developments and technology,

0:27:52.520 --> 0:27:56.600
<v Speaker 2>but still understanding that. Yeah, especially as first time moms,

0:27:56.680 --> 0:27:59.520
<v Speaker 2>like this is my first baby. I've gone through this

0:27:59.560 --> 0:28:03.720
<v Speaker 2>particular journey to have this child, and so I value

0:28:03.760 --> 0:28:06.080
<v Speaker 2>that I see that. But we have to make sure again,

0:28:06.440 --> 0:28:09.800
<v Speaker 2>how are you mom, because we cannot neglect ourselves because

0:28:09.840 --> 0:28:12.199
<v Speaker 2>we have someone else that kind of come into the picture.

0:28:12.480 --> 0:28:17.119
<v Speaker 2>We also lean into your support. So instead of those notifications,

0:28:17.200 --> 0:28:20.080
<v Speaker 2>if you are fortunate enough to have that family support,

0:28:20.400 --> 0:28:23.879
<v Speaker 2>lead into that instead of you know, the technology and notifications.

0:28:24.880 --> 0:28:27.440
<v Speaker 1>So, speaking of support, like what kinds of things would

0:28:27.480 --> 0:28:30.800
<v Speaker 1>you say to partners and other family members about how

0:28:30.840 --> 0:28:33.480
<v Speaker 1>to support somebody who is kind of in the postpartum

0:28:33.520 --> 0:28:36.840
<v Speaker 1>period and maybe how to recognize like when they need

0:28:36.880 --> 0:28:38.960
<v Speaker 1>to escalate and talk to somebody else.

0:28:39.440 --> 0:28:45.720
<v Speaker 2>I recently did a recertification in my perinatal mental health class,

0:28:46.200 --> 0:28:51.959
<v Speaker 2>and we talked about a postpartum plan and sharing that

0:28:52.040 --> 0:28:55.520
<v Speaker 2>plan of course with your supports prior to the birth

0:28:55.560 --> 0:28:59.720
<v Speaker 2>of the baby, and during that conversation or during that

0:29:00.080 --> 0:29:04.720
<v Speaker 2>eyelock with your support, letting them know and also being

0:29:04.880 --> 0:29:08.719
<v Speaker 2>educated as the patient of what this does look like.

0:29:08.840 --> 0:29:14.640
<v Speaker 2>If I am having some type of irritability, mood, anxiousness,

0:29:15.120 --> 0:29:17.920
<v Speaker 2>and so if I do start to exhibit some of

0:29:17.960 --> 0:29:21.160
<v Speaker 2>those particular signs and symptoms, then this is how I

0:29:21.200 --> 0:29:25.040
<v Speaker 2>wish for you to communicate to me about what you see.

0:29:25.120 --> 0:29:28.560
<v Speaker 2>And I'm very opened for you to communicate that to

0:29:28.600 --> 0:29:31.720
<v Speaker 2>me because once I give birth, I know that I'm

0:29:31.760 --> 0:29:35.640
<v Speaker 2>going to have some fluctuations in my mood, some fluctuations

0:29:35.720 --> 0:29:37.960
<v Speaker 2>due to my hormones, and so I may not be

0:29:38.000 --> 0:29:43.000
<v Speaker 2>able to recognize that within myself. So during my postpartum

0:29:43.040 --> 0:29:46.480
<v Speaker 2>plan that I'm doing pre baby, I really need you

0:29:46.520 --> 0:29:49.880
<v Speaker 2>to let me know how I'm doing. Encourage me to

0:29:49.920 --> 0:29:52.960
<v Speaker 2>take care of myself, make sure that I have meals

0:29:53.040 --> 0:29:56.280
<v Speaker 2>because my focus will be whether it's breastfeeding or feeding

0:29:56.320 --> 0:29:58.719
<v Speaker 2>that baby. So make sure that you're taking care of

0:29:58.760 --> 0:30:00.640
<v Speaker 2>me as I'm trying my best to take care of

0:30:00.640 --> 0:30:05.240
<v Speaker 2>my new born. So having that conversation pre baby, setting

0:30:05.320 --> 0:30:08.320
<v Speaker 2>a postpartum plan with your family members or that loved

0:30:08.360 --> 0:30:10.560
<v Speaker 2>one or that partner, I think it will be very

0:30:10.640 --> 0:30:13.880
<v Speaker 2>very helpful. And then also, hey, if I get to

0:30:13.920 --> 0:30:18.880
<v Speaker 2>a point where I'm unable to receive from you, who's backup,

0:30:19.280 --> 0:30:22.000
<v Speaker 2>who's your backup that can that can communicate to me?

0:30:22.480 --> 0:30:26.000
<v Speaker 2>And also making sure that you, if it is my partner,

0:30:26.480 --> 0:30:29.200
<v Speaker 2>how are you going through this process? And I don't

0:30:29.240 --> 0:30:31.800
<v Speaker 2>want you to neglect your needs, partner, so you make

0:30:31.840 --> 0:30:34.800
<v Speaker 2>sure that you have your own particular support. So having

0:30:34.840 --> 0:30:37.480
<v Speaker 2>a postpartum plan pre baby, I thought it was very

0:30:37.520 --> 0:30:40.600
<v Speaker 2>good advice that they were giving us to tell our

0:30:40.640 --> 0:30:43.880
<v Speaker 2>clients let's develop it, but also not be so rigid

0:30:43.880 --> 0:30:45.840
<v Speaker 2>that we have to stick to it, and so we

0:30:45.960 --> 0:30:49.320
<v Speaker 2>know areas where we can pivot. But hey, please let

0:30:49.320 --> 0:30:52.760
<v Speaker 2>me know if I am not having the quality of

0:30:52.800 --> 0:30:55.240
<v Speaker 2>life that you know that I should have. So making

0:30:55.280 --> 0:31:00.560
<v Speaker 2>sure my basics, eating, my social connectivity, my sleeping, so

0:31:01.000 --> 0:31:03.360
<v Speaker 2>help me out because we're not going to get the

0:31:03.400 --> 0:31:06.080
<v Speaker 2>sleep that we did. But what does this look like

0:31:06.240 --> 0:31:08.520
<v Speaker 2>now for me? To make sure as I have gone

0:31:08.560 --> 0:31:11.440
<v Speaker 2>through this experience of giving birth, making sure that I

0:31:11.480 --> 0:31:15.040
<v Speaker 2>am sleeping good. And then again, well you're not exercising,

0:31:15.200 --> 0:31:17.400
<v Speaker 2>but when I can, and if that's something that I

0:31:17.480 --> 0:31:20.200
<v Speaker 2>used to like to do, encourage me because that also

0:31:20.280 --> 0:31:21.520
<v Speaker 2>has its added benefits.

0:31:22.920 --> 0:31:25.440
<v Speaker 1>Are there any resources in particular that you knew of,

0:31:25.440 --> 0:31:28.720
<v Speaker 1>doctor Mimi that are specifically for men to support the

0:31:28.760 --> 0:31:31.240
<v Speaker 1>women in their lives around reproductive psychiatry.

0:31:31.400 --> 0:31:35.959
<v Speaker 2>So there's a website and Postpartum Support International and so

0:31:36.160 --> 0:31:39.959
<v Speaker 2>on that website. It has different tabs and it's also

0:31:40.160 --> 0:31:43.640
<v Speaker 2>they have support groups for partners that you can kind

0:31:43.680 --> 0:31:46.440
<v Speaker 2>of put in your zip code figure out where you

0:31:46.440 --> 0:31:49.640
<v Speaker 2>could go whether and also if it is virtual for

0:31:49.760 --> 0:31:52.680
<v Speaker 2>your partners and they can have male groups and then

0:31:52.720 --> 0:31:57.560
<v Speaker 2>also other partner relationship groups. And I believe that was

0:31:57.600 --> 0:32:00.800
<v Speaker 2>a really good website. And also on that website directory

0:32:01.040 --> 0:32:03.800
<v Speaker 2>for those who are reproductive psychiatrists or how do I

0:32:03.840 --> 0:32:05.880
<v Speaker 2>find a provider? And so that is kind of a

0:32:05.960 --> 0:32:08.239
<v Speaker 2>website that I give my clients if you're looking for

0:32:08.280 --> 0:32:13.160
<v Speaker 2>support groups, if you're looking for other providers, therapists, other psychiatrists,

0:32:13.200 --> 0:32:16.800
<v Speaker 2>just other resources when you're going through this perinatal journey.

0:32:17.520 --> 0:32:21.440
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for that. More from our conversation after the break.

0:32:30.600 --> 0:32:32.840
<v Speaker 1>So earlier in our conversation you talked a little bit

0:32:32.880 --> 0:32:34.760
<v Speaker 1>about you know, we spend a lot of time talking

0:32:34.800 --> 0:32:38.520
<v Speaker 1>about like the fertility journey, postpartum kind of pre postpartum,

0:32:38.800 --> 0:32:41.920
<v Speaker 1>but also perimenopause and menopause, right, is another part of

0:32:42.000 --> 0:32:44.920
<v Speaker 1>this psycho that women go through. You mentioned it like

0:32:45.040 --> 0:32:48.719
<v Speaker 1>brain fog and like some cognitive concerns. What are some

0:32:48.760 --> 0:32:51.479
<v Speaker 1>of the particular mental health kinds of symptoms that we

0:32:51.560 --> 0:32:54.280
<v Speaker 1>see kind of in this perimenopause menopause stage.

0:32:54.600 --> 0:32:58.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, and just self disclosure, like I'm freezing the whole

0:32:58.320 --> 0:33:03.320
<v Speaker 2>house out in terms of high insomnia, you know, Okay,

0:33:03.440 --> 0:33:06.240
<v Speaker 2>brain fog. So the mental health, it could just be

0:33:06.320 --> 0:33:10.600
<v Speaker 2>mood swings because your hormones are literally swinging, they're decreasing,

0:33:11.160 --> 0:33:16.400
<v Speaker 2>and so mood swings, irritability, lolabido, and also just physical

0:33:16.480 --> 0:33:19.640
<v Speaker 2>symptoms of whether it is vaginal dryness that can also

0:33:19.720 --> 0:33:23.720
<v Speaker 2>contribute to your lo levito. So just for perimental pause

0:33:23.880 --> 0:33:26.160
<v Speaker 2>or just going through mental pause, look it out for

0:33:26.200 --> 0:33:29.280
<v Speaker 2>those symptoms of yes, hot you hear hot and cold flashes,

0:33:29.760 --> 0:33:34.000
<v Speaker 2>but also that cognitive of slowing or that brain fog, Hey,

0:33:34.000 --> 0:33:36.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm not as quick as I used to get Okay,

0:33:36.000 --> 0:33:39.160
<v Speaker 2>just give me some time. But mood swings that irritability

0:33:39.240 --> 0:33:42.720
<v Speaker 2>and that snappiness sometimes it can lead to depression. So

0:33:43.080 --> 0:33:46.280
<v Speaker 2>again it's different for ladies all ladies. So also you

0:33:46.280 --> 0:33:48.880
<v Speaker 2>can I ask, if you have a mom that you're

0:33:48.880 --> 0:33:50.880
<v Speaker 2>able to ask, Okay, what time when did you go

0:33:50.960 --> 0:33:53.720
<v Speaker 2>through this? How is your experiences because it may be

0:33:53.840 --> 0:33:55.960
<v Speaker 2>similar to hers, and so you can be on the

0:33:56.000 --> 0:34:02.480
<v Speaker 2>lookouts of those particular symptoms, but moved symptoms of just anxiety, depression, irritability,

0:34:02.960 --> 0:34:05.800
<v Speaker 2>just some type of what we call liability in your mood,

0:34:05.920 --> 0:34:11.120
<v Speaker 2>not knowing how I'm feeling, and also just I'm not

0:34:11.239 --> 0:34:14.560
<v Speaker 2>sleeping as well as I used to. And what are

0:34:14.640 --> 0:34:18.120
<v Speaker 2>my particular options? And I do, of course work with

0:34:18.200 --> 0:34:21.360
<v Speaker 2>the obgui ns about this, so I leave the hormone

0:34:21.400 --> 0:34:24.520
<v Speaker 2>replacement to them if they choose to go that route,

0:34:24.880 --> 0:34:27.839
<v Speaker 2>and if not, we still have medications from my standpoint

0:34:28.080 --> 0:34:31.080
<v Speaker 2>as relates to depression or anxiety, as well as we

0:34:31.120 --> 0:34:35.399
<v Speaker 2>have medications from a psychiatry standpoint for hot flashes. So

0:34:35.560 --> 0:34:38.440
<v Speaker 2>there are options and we work together. And if you

0:34:38.480 --> 0:34:43.000
<v Speaker 2>are on hormone replacement therapy, your obgui in can do that,

0:34:43.080 --> 0:34:45.440
<v Speaker 2>and so you may not need as much as medications

0:34:45.480 --> 0:34:48.799
<v Speaker 2>on my end for those hot flashes for that irritability

0:34:48.840 --> 0:34:51.640
<v Speaker 2>because now you have that replacement from a hormonal standpoint.

0:34:52.239 --> 0:34:54.160
<v Speaker 1>So I would imagine that all of this is kind

0:34:54.200 --> 0:34:58.360
<v Speaker 1>of connected. But how do you distinguish between like anxiety

0:34:58.360 --> 0:35:01.240
<v Speaker 1>and depression symptoms that may be really it's a perimenopause

0:35:01.800 --> 0:35:05.080
<v Speaker 1>versus something that is just like maybe a generalized anxiety

0:35:05.120 --> 0:35:07.760
<v Speaker 1>disorder or major depressive disorder or does it even matter.

0:35:08.040 --> 0:35:11.080
<v Speaker 2>I would say it matters, but then it doesn't doct

0:35:11.239 --> 0:35:15.280
<v Speaker 2>enjoy because the way that you would know if it's hormonal, okay,

0:35:15.320 --> 0:35:19.239
<v Speaker 2>you're getting your your levels checked and if you want

0:35:19.280 --> 0:35:23.200
<v Speaker 2>to elect to go to hormone replacement, okay, But it

0:35:23.200 --> 0:35:25.160
<v Speaker 2>doesn't really matter because we're going to treat it the

0:35:25.200 --> 0:35:28.719
<v Speaker 2>same way from my standpoint. So if you're having some depression,

0:35:28.760 --> 0:35:33.160
<v Speaker 2>you're having some anxiety, you're having some insomnia. If it

0:35:33.280 --> 0:35:35.520
<v Speaker 2>was not for your hormones and it was like more

0:35:35.560 --> 0:35:39.439
<v Speaker 2>of an I guess organic type of or depression or anxiety,

0:35:39.880 --> 0:35:43.480
<v Speaker 2>then I'm still going to give you your treatment recommendations

0:35:43.800 --> 0:35:45.920
<v Speaker 2>of Hey, this is what you can use for medications

0:35:45.960 --> 0:35:47.840
<v Speaker 2>you can use a villa faccine. We can use a

0:35:47.880 --> 0:35:51.480
<v Speaker 2>peroxytine for these symptoms. So it really doesn't matter because

0:35:51.480 --> 0:35:53.319
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to treat it the same way. But if

0:35:53.320 --> 0:35:55.400
<v Speaker 2>you really want the root, cause, let's get some of

0:35:55.440 --> 0:35:58.120
<v Speaker 2>your hormone levels, and if you elect to go this

0:35:58.160 --> 0:36:01.400
<v Speaker 2>way in terms of homo replacement therapy, you can. And

0:36:01.440 --> 0:36:03.960
<v Speaker 2>if you don't, then we can lean into my medications.

0:36:04.160 --> 0:36:06.120
<v Speaker 2>But if you elect to do both, we can do both.

0:36:06.600 --> 0:36:10.200
<v Speaker 2>So it kind of doesn't matter. It's all connected. It's biological,

0:36:10.360 --> 0:36:13.960
<v Speaker 2>it's psychological, it's got social aspects. So it's like a

0:36:13.960 --> 0:36:17.960
<v Speaker 2>biopsychosocial treatment plan that we all just have to agree

0:36:18.000 --> 0:36:20.319
<v Speaker 2>on and just know that, hey, we are working on

0:36:20.360 --> 0:36:21.840
<v Speaker 2>your team and we want to make sure that you

0:36:21.960 --> 0:36:24.600
<v Speaker 2>are living your life the way that you want to

0:36:24.640 --> 0:36:27.320
<v Speaker 2>and it's the best quality. Yeah, in all stages.

0:36:27.600 --> 0:36:30.160
<v Speaker 1>You're right. So what would you say to a sister

0:36:30.280 --> 0:36:32.319
<v Speaker 1>Docum maybe who might be listening to us, and you know,

0:36:32.360 --> 0:36:34.319
<v Speaker 1>maybe she's in our forties or fifties and feels like

0:36:34.360 --> 0:36:37.839
<v Speaker 1>her mental health is kind of steadily unraveling. What kinds

0:36:37.840 --> 0:36:39.560
<v Speaker 1>of things would you say to her? And where should

0:36:39.600 --> 0:36:40.400
<v Speaker 1>she start?

0:36:40.560 --> 0:36:43.680
<v Speaker 2>I would say, go see someone. Okay, if you have

0:36:43.880 --> 0:36:47.520
<v Speaker 2>any particular barriers from a mental standpoint, saying hey, I

0:36:47.520 --> 0:36:49.160
<v Speaker 2>don't want to go see anybody, I don't want to

0:36:49.200 --> 0:36:51.680
<v Speaker 2>tell anybody my business. I don't want to feel like

0:36:51.719 --> 0:36:54.799
<v Speaker 2>I need some help in my emotional well being. It

0:36:54.920 --> 0:36:57.480
<v Speaker 2>just makes me feel kind of weak. Just try your

0:36:57.520 --> 0:37:00.279
<v Speaker 2>best to push through it, because that's the hardest part.

0:37:00.600 --> 0:37:02.719
<v Speaker 2>And once you get to that person or you get

0:37:02.760 --> 0:37:05.000
<v Speaker 2>to that person that you vibe with, and you can

0:37:05.080 --> 0:37:07.759
<v Speaker 2>really kind of say, Okay, this is what I'm going through.

0:37:07.840 --> 0:37:11.240
<v Speaker 2>I do feel like I'm unraveling in my mid forties,

0:37:11.280 --> 0:37:13.920
<v Speaker 2>my fifties. I know things are off. What do you

0:37:13.960 --> 0:37:17.880
<v Speaker 2>got from me? And really educating yourself on your options,

0:37:18.400 --> 0:37:22.000
<v Speaker 2>educating yourself on hey, there are resources. I don't have

0:37:22.080 --> 0:37:24.080
<v Speaker 2>to be on medication. I just may need someone to

0:37:24.120 --> 0:37:27.520
<v Speaker 2>talk to and help me through this particular transition in

0:37:27.560 --> 0:37:30.520
<v Speaker 2>my life. We have never been this particular age before,

0:37:31.040 --> 0:37:34.399
<v Speaker 2>and so really giving yourself that grace and saying hey,

0:37:35.080 --> 0:37:40.560
<v Speaker 2>I may not have needed that help when I was thirty, However,

0:37:40.600 --> 0:37:42.720
<v Speaker 2>I have gone through a lot of things. Between thirty

0:37:42.719 --> 0:37:44.920
<v Speaker 2>and forty five, I have gone through a lot of

0:37:44.960 --> 0:37:49.319
<v Speaker 2>season changes, a lot of transitions, and perhaps my resilience

0:37:49.600 --> 0:37:51.680
<v Speaker 2>is not as much as it used to be. And

0:37:51.719 --> 0:37:54.480
<v Speaker 2>that's okay, that's not making me weak. It makes me

0:37:54.719 --> 0:37:56.840
<v Speaker 2>know that I need to lean into some support that

0:37:56.960 --> 0:37:59.000
<v Speaker 2>now I know I have resources.

0:37:59.520 --> 0:38:03.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, any tips for advocating yourself with medical professionals.

0:38:04.120 --> 0:38:06.840
<v Speaker 2>It's funny that you asked. I recently told one of

0:38:06.880 --> 0:38:10.080
<v Speaker 2>my clients. I said, hey, go back to that obgui

0:38:10.280 --> 0:38:12.600
<v Speaker 2>in and let her know that you want some birth control.

0:38:13.120 --> 0:38:16.239
<v Speaker 2>And so she was a patient that married, has been

0:38:16.280 --> 0:38:20.120
<v Speaker 2>married for several years, but they just wasn't not at

0:38:20.120 --> 0:38:23.680
<v Speaker 2>a stage where they wanted to have children, and going

0:38:23.760 --> 0:38:27.960
<v Speaker 2>to see her obguy in, she didn't bring up the

0:38:28.000 --> 0:38:30.480
<v Speaker 2>fact that she wanted to be on birth control, and

0:38:30.640 --> 0:38:34.680
<v Speaker 2>the provider didn't either, because the provider automatically assume you're married,

0:38:35.160 --> 0:38:38.120
<v Speaker 2>you were in your career, you have this particular support.

0:38:38.280 --> 0:38:40.920
<v Speaker 2>Why wouldn't you want to have children? And so we

0:38:41.080 --> 0:38:45.040
<v Speaker 2>really had to work on that conversation in our sessions

0:38:45.080 --> 0:38:47.920
<v Speaker 2>and say no, you can really advocate for yourself and

0:38:48.000 --> 0:38:50.279
<v Speaker 2>just say hey, no, please tell me more about my

0:38:50.320 --> 0:38:53.719
<v Speaker 2>birth control options. Tell me more because right now I

0:38:53.760 --> 0:38:57.120
<v Speaker 2>want to do proper family planning for me. And it

0:38:57.160 --> 0:39:00.480
<v Speaker 2>wasn't any particular knock for that provider. It was just

0:39:00.520 --> 0:39:03.560
<v Speaker 2>maybe it was some implicit bias of like, hey, I

0:39:03.719 --> 0:39:05.920
<v Speaker 2>just thought that she wanted to have children. She's married,

0:39:05.920 --> 0:39:09.840
<v Speaker 2>and she has this particular setup that I think, you know,

0:39:09.960 --> 0:39:13.160
<v Speaker 2>it's beneficial for bringing in a child, But really her

0:39:13.320 --> 0:39:16.280
<v Speaker 2>and myself and the patient really having those role playing

0:39:16.680 --> 0:39:19.839
<v Speaker 2>type of discussions in session and saying, no, I want

0:39:19.880 --> 0:39:22.400
<v Speaker 2>to know my options. Also, I wanted to know if

0:39:22.400 --> 0:39:24.160
<v Speaker 2>I want to be on a Monte phase or try

0:39:24.200 --> 0:39:28.319
<v Speaker 2>phase a birth control peel. So we're really knowing and

0:39:28.560 --> 0:39:33.399
<v Speaker 2>educating ourselves about options and making sure that we are

0:39:33.480 --> 0:39:38.320
<v Speaker 2>telling our providers what you desire and advocating and showing

0:39:38.440 --> 0:39:42.560
<v Speaker 2>up for yourself and having that voice. And so I'm

0:39:42.600 --> 0:39:44.960
<v Speaker 2>just the one in the background, just kind of just pushing, okay,

0:39:45.120 --> 0:39:47.840
<v Speaker 2>talk to her. So, yeah, she was my patient, she

0:39:47.920 --> 0:39:50.479
<v Speaker 2>got on her birth control. She is fine, she said, Okay,

0:39:50.480 --> 0:39:54.239
<v Speaker 2>I feel so I'm so less anxious. I'm so less anxious.

0:39:55.760 --> 0:39:58.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a really great suggestion, you know, role playing, right, like,

0:39:58.800 --> 0:40:00.360
<v Speaker 1>how can you role play with the tr to the

0:40:00.400 --> 0:40:03.319
<v Speaker 1>other person, what kinds of conversations you might neither have

0:40:03.440 --> 0:40:07.720
<v Speaker 1>with your primary care doctor? Or your obgyn or whoever. Yes, yeah,

0:40:07.920 --> 0:40:11.440
<v Speaker 1>any other resources or affirmations that you find yourself kind

0:40:11.440 --> 0:40:13.120
<v Speaker 1>of using in your practice.

0:40:13.280 --> 0:40:16.000
<v Speaker 2>In my practice, so I'm a psychiatrist, but I say

0:40:16.040 --> 0:40:19.319
<v Speaker 2>I do a little sprinkle of adult psychotherapy within my

0:40:19.360 --> 0:40:22.040
<v Speaker 2>sessions for these of my clients, and so I do

0:40:22.160 --> 0:40:25.759
<v Speaker 2>lean in, especially with my very busy ladies, and just

0:40:25.840 --> 0:40:29.600
<v Speaker 2>those basic skills of mindfulness is just slowing down and

0:40:29.640 --> 0:40:33.600
<v Speaker 2>practicing stillness, and so we really do those mindful exercises

0:40:33.640 --> 0:40:35.839
<v Speaker 2>of just hey, you don't have to eat at your

0:40:35.880 --> 0:40:38.239
<v Speaker 2>desk at work. You could actually go to the break

0:40:38.360 --> 0:40:42.360
<v Speaker 2>room and you could actually eat mindfully in the breakroom

0:40:42.600 --> 0:40:46.680
<v Speaker 2>away from your computer. And those mindful are just those

0:40:46.719 --> 0:40:51.120
<v Speaker 2>breathing exercises, So just really slowing down because we are

0:40:51.120 --> 0:40:55.440
<v Speaker 2>in I think an anxious society because everything is so fast,

0:40:55.520 --> 0:40:58.239
<v Speaker 2>it's all at you at once, and so just taking

0:40:58.280 --> 0:41:01.880
<v Speaker 2>those moments to do that mindful exercise where it's eating,

0:41:02.280 --> 0:41:04.840
<v Speaker 2>whether it is breathing. When we're trying to go to

0:41:04.880 --> 0:41:08.520
<v Speaker 2>sleep and we're having some issues, do those progressive muscle relaxations,

0:41:08.920 --> 0:41:13.320
<v Speaker 2>So just really slowing down your movement, slowing down your mind,

0:41:13.680 --> 0:41:16.240
<v Speaker 2>so you really can practice being in that present moment,

0:41:16.640 --> 0:41:21.200
<v Speaker 2>and so I often give out mindful or DVT exercises

0:41:21.560 --> 0:41:25.279
<v Speaker 2>to my patients throughout the portal and just challenging those

0:41:25.320 --> 0:41:30.520
<v Speaker 2>negative thought patterns and changing our perspectives and again advocating

0:41:30.520 --> 0:41:34.080
<v Speaker 2>for yourself in those conversations. Hey, what do you truly desire?

0:41:34.160 --> 0:41:37.760
<v Speaker 2>Because we often do a lot of things for other people. Hey,

0:41:37.840 --> 0:41:41.759
<v Speaker 2>we are perhaps at an age now where we have

0:41:41.840 --> 0:41:44.680
<v Speaker 2>poured out enough and let's steit back and let's be

0:41:44.760 --> 0:41:47.719
<v Speaker 2>mindful and let's allow other support in to us, but

0:41:47.800 --> 0:41:50.879
<v Speaker 2>also let's teach them how we desire to be poured into.

0:41:51.280 --> 0:41:54.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so where can we stay connected with you? Doctor Mimi?

0:41:54.320 --> 0:41:56.399
<v Speaker 1>What is your website as well as any social media

0:41:56.440 --> 0:41:57.520
<v Speaker 1>channels you'd like to share?

0:41:58.160 --> 0:42:01.920
<v Speaker 2>Yes, so my practice is community Health, So it's I

0:42:02.200 --> 0:42:05.239
<v Speaker 2>n N EER Community Health and that's innercommunity Health dot

0:42:05.280 --> 0:42:09.840
<v Speaker 2>com and you can find all information there. Resources. Also,

0:42:09.960 --> 0:42:12.960
<v Speaker 2>if you are a healthcare provider and you are looking

0:42:13.000 --> 0:42:18.400
<v Speaker 2>for reproductive psychiatrists, nurse practitioners, therapists, we have that in

0:42:18.520 --> 0:42:21.080
<v Speaker 2>house at our practice and you can actually click on

0:42:21.360 --> 0:42:23.759
<v Speaker 2>referral and we make sure that we can provide those

0:42:23.800 --> 0:42:30.160
<v Speaker 2>services for your clients. We see patients or clients in Georgia, Virginia, Maryland,

0:42:30.239 --> 0:42:33.040
<v Speaker 2>and Ohio, and of course we see those who are

0:42:33.080 --> 0:42:36.839
<v Speaker 2>not in Georgia virtually, but my social media handles are

0:42:37.239 --> 0:42:41.080
<v Speaker 2>doctrimimi dot care, so d r m imi dot care

0:42:41.440 --> 0:42:44.400
<v Speaker 2>on all social platforms. But yeah, and you can also

0:42:44.480 --> 0:42:47.880
<v Speaker 2>just call the practice and get with our concierge or

0:42:47.920 --> 0:42:51.160
<v Speaker 2>our office manager. And that's eight hundred sixty two zero

0:42:51.280 --> 0:42:54.480
<v Speaker 2>six nine five zero. So we just really want to

0:42:54.520 --> 0:42:58.640
<v Speaker 2>be a place where this is, yes for women, but

0:42:58.840 --> 0:43:02.279
<v Speaker 2>it is just for that total person to provide that

0:43:02.400 --> 0:43:06.480
<v Speaker 2>spectrum of care from whether it's individualized to group therapies,

0:43:06.640 --> 0:43:09.680
<v Speaker 2>also to intents of outpatient programming that we are going

0:43:09.719 --> 0:43:13.880
<v Speaker 2>to start this coming up late summer, so we're excited

0:43:13.880 --> 0:43:16.000
<v Speaker 2>about that and that's going to have a heavy focus

0:43:16.080 --> 0:43:21.520
<v Speaker 2>on those that have just reproductive issues. And also, hey,

0:43:21.560 --> 0:43:24.480
<v Speaker 2>we're showing active treatment, so if you do need that

0:43:24.520 --> 0:43:26.920
<v Speaker 2>particular time off, then hey, this is a place where

0:43:26.960 --> 0:43:29.720
<v Speaker 2>I can really get those coping strategies, it's culping skills,

0:43:29.960 --> 0:43:34.080
<v Speaker 2>and also be under physician's care. So we're just excited

0:43:34.120 --> 0:43:36.239
<v Speaker 2>about how we're scaling and growing and just be in

0:43:36.239 --> 0:43:41.000
<v Speaker 2>that place again that I desire during my life transitions.

0:43:42.280 --> 0:43:44.240
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for that, Doctor mean we should

0:43:44.280 --> 0:43:49.880
<v Speaker 1>include all of that in the show notes. I'm so

0:43:49.960 --> 0:43:52.360
<v Speaker 1>happy doctor Sanders is able to join us for today's

0:43:52.360 --> 0:43:55.120
<v Speaker 1>episode to learn more about her and her work. We

0:43:55.200 --> 0:43:57.520
<v Speaker 1>should have visited the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls

0:43:57.560 --> 0:44:01.040
<v Speaker 1>dot com Session four fifteen, and don't forget to text

0:44:01.040 --> 0:44:03.000
<v Speaker 1>this episode to two of your girls right now and

0:44:03.040 --> 0:44:05.160
<v Speaker 1>tell them to check it out. Did you know that

0:44:05.200 --> 0:44:07.320
<v Speaker 1>you could leave us a voicemail with your questions or

0:44:07.360 --> 0:44:10.680
<v Speaker 1>suggestions for the podcast. If you have books you'd like

0:44:10.760 --> 0:44:13.919
<v Speaker 1>us to review or movies you'd like to suggest, drop

0:44:14.000 --> 0:44:16.640
<v Speaker 1>us a message at Remo dot fm slash Therapy for

0:44:16.680 --> 0:44:18.680
<v Speaker 1>Black Girls and let us know what's on your mind.

0:44:19.120 --> 0:44:22.160
<v Speaker 1>We just might feature it on the podcast. If you're

0:44:22.160 --> 0:44:24.800
<v Speaker 1>looking for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist

0:44:24.800 --> 0:44:29.000
<v Speaker 1>directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. Don't

0:44:29.000 --> 0:44:31.960
<v Speaker 1>forget to follow us on Instagram at Therapy for Black Girls,

0:44:32.440 --> 0:44:34.759
<v Speaker 1>and make sure to join us in our Patreon community

0:44:34.760 --> 0:44:38.040
<v Speaker 1>for exclusive updates, behind the scenes content, and much more.

0:44:38.440 --> 0:44:41.120
<v Speaker 1>You can join us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls

0:44:41.160 --> 0:44:45.560
<v Speaker 1>dot com. This episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Indechubu

0:44:45.680 --> 0:44:49.560
<v Speaker 1>and Tyrie Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank

0:44:49.640 --> 0:44:51.880
<v Speaker 1>y'all so much for joining me again this week. I

0:44:52.000 --> 0:44:55.319
<v Speaker 1>look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.

0:44:55.920 --> 0:45:01.920
<v Speaker 1>Take it care what pet foot pen pot fast Woods