1 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 2 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 3 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 4 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:26,600 Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford, 5 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 6 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 7 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you 8 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is 9 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with 10 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much 11 00:00:57,760 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: for joining me for session four, p. Fifty of the 12 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our 13 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: conversation after a word from our sponsors. Reproductive health is 14 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: often discussed in terms of our physical bodies, but what 15 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: about our mental and emotional will being across the reproductive 16 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:26,479 Speaker 1: black span. In today's conversation, I'm joined by doctor Mimi Sanders, 17 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: a board certified psychiatrist specializing in reproductive psychiatry, to help 18 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: us better understand the unique mental health needs that can 19 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: show up during menstruation, pregnancy, postpartum fertility challenges, pregnancy laws, 20 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: and menopause. We explore what reproductive psychiatry is, why it's 21 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: especially important for Black women, how mood and anxiety disorders 22 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: can show up during major reproductive transitions, and what it 23 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: looks like to advocate for yourself when navigating mental health 24 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: care during these seasons. Doctor Sanders also breaks down common 25 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: myths about medication during pregnancy and postpartum, and shares what supportive, 26 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: culturally responsive care should look like. If something resonates with 27 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on 28 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: social media using the hashtag TVG in Session, or join 29 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: us over in our Patreon to talk more about the episode. 30 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 1: You can join us at community dot therapy forro Blackgirls 31 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: dot com. Here's our conversation. Well, thank you so much 32 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: for joining us today, doctor Vivie. 33 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 2: Oh, thank you for having me. I'm excited. 34 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, you had such a unique career journey thus 35 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: for so tell us about your career as a psychiatrist 36 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 1: and on reality television, And I think this is always 37 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:45,959 Speaker 1: interesting for the sisters in the community who may be 38 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 1: exploring medicine. How did you choose psychiatry as a career path? 39 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,119 Speaker 2: Yes, very unique. I often tell myself, Hey, You never 40 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 2: know what is going to be around the corner, so 41 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 2: just be prepared to pivot. I'm originally from Alabama. I 42 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 2: went to undergrads at Tennessee State University, and at that 43 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 2: time I wanted to be a pharmacist and I was 44 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 2: doing like my chemistry and all the prerecs. But then 45 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 2: I discovered, hey, I you know, I like kind of 46 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 2: medicine as well. What does that look like? And I 47 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 2: entered into like a program after undergrad and it was 48 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 2: for just those who were just wanting to do more 49 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 2: medicine but not necessarily had really fully necessarily committed, but 50 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 2: I want to explore, and so I entered into this 51 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 2: program during the summer after I graduated from Tennessee State 52 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 2: University at Ohio University, and it was my first time 53 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 2: being exposed to what a doctor of osteopathic medicine was, 54 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 2: and it was really focused on general practition and those 55 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 2: of like primary care, and so I kind of fell 56 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 2: in love with really okay, I really like to know 57 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: everything about the person, and also behavioral health kind of 58 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 2: fell in that as well. So I entered into Ohio 59 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 2: University for a medical school and stay there, and it 60 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 2: was just different experience. I was coming from a historically 61 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 2: black university and now I am in Appalachia, So I'm like, okay, Lord, 62 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 2: you're giving me all types of experiences in my life. 63 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 2: And then just from there just met really good like 64 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: friendships and just really had a really good experience. And 65 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 2: I left there and went to Cleveland Clinic and from 66 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 2: there that did my residency. At that time, I had 67 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 2: decided on psychiatry, And your question was how did I 68 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 2: decide on that? And it was not until maybe one 69 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 2: of my last rotations as a medical student, I'm like, hey, 70 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 2: I don't like surgery. I'm not necessarily a person that 71 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 2: wants to do a true specialty of dermatology. I really 72 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 2: wanted to explore more yes of my primary general practitioner 73 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 2: kind of experience and background. But I found myself in 74 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 2: my clerkship of my rotation in psychiatry on an inpatient ward. 75 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 2: On that ward, I saw a lot of persons of color, 76 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 2: and I didn't see at that time where I was 77 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 2: doing my rotation of a lot of those in those 78 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 2: crisis situations of the majority. So I didn't see a 79 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 2: lot of those who are Caucasian, and I was wondering 80 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 2: why was that. And when I went from an in 81 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 2: patient setting to the outpatient setting, then I saw more 82 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 2: of those who were Caucasian and really exploring those preventative 83 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 2: measures of their mental health and emotional well being. And 84 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 2: that is kind of where I fell in love with psychiatry. 85 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 2: And I'm just like, you know what, I really know 86 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 2: that I can relate to a lot of individuals because 87 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 2: of my background and because of my life experiences, but 88 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 2: I really want to be a representative of that Black 89 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 2: community of a psychiatrist that we necessarily don't have to 90 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 2: see someone in crises. We can have that particular representative 91 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 2: as an outpatient and really work on what is proactive 92 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 2: in my own mental health health. I have someone that 93 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 2: I can relate to, I can talk about these things. 94 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 2: They understand my spirituality and they understand that, hey, I'm 95 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 2: not necessarily having a psychotist if I am talking to 96 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 2: the Lord. And so it was just that particular experience 97 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 2: that in me wanting to fill in that gap or 98 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 2: that void and be truly a representative of this is 99 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 2: what it looks like or what it could look like 100 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 2: for proactive preventative mental health and going to see a psychiatrist. 101 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 2: But funny story. Also, my mom, when I told her 102 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 2: I wanted to be a psychiatrist, her being from the 103 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 2: deep south of Alabama, she was like, so you going 104 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 2: to medical school and you're not going to be a 105 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 2: real doctor. And I said, mom, Mom, And so just 106 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 2: knowing that, and now she's very well educated and she 107 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 2: knows all things about mental health and going to see 108 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 2: someone and medications, and just knowing that that is how 109 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 2: we were. It's gotten much better now, but this is 110 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 2: how we thought about going to see a psychiatrist. So 111 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 2: that is kind of where I fell in love with it. 112 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 2: To be honest, I don't like to get down and 113 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 2: dirty in terms of physical exam Like I really loved 114 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 2: talking to people. I love doing that particular type of examination. 115 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 2: So that's how I landed. 116 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that story because I think 117 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: that that can pop up in lots of different ways, right, 118 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: Like not just stigma around like medical specialties, but also 119 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: I think the stigma related to mental health in some ways, right, 120 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: I think that is deep seated for a lot of 121 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: our families. 122 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 123 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So is the focus on prevention that you 124 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,679 Speaker 1: saw what led you to develop your private practice Inner 125 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: community Health. 126 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 2: Yes and no. So my practice inner community health. It 127 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 2: started back in actually in COVID, so it was a 128 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 2: virtual practice. And so I was working while in COVID 129 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 2: as any psychiatrist as well as now self employed doing 130 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 2: my virtual practice. And usually during this time, I had 131 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 2: a lot of women reaching out because we were all 132 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 2: confined and we're like, okay, I can't set these particular 133 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 2: boundaries that I thought I had in terms of work 134 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 2: and life and children and husband and cooking and now 135 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 2: working again. And I had a lot of women reaching 136 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 2: out and say, hey, I need some help. I have 137 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 2: not navigated this before. And I said, well, let me 138 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 2: just open up my schedule and let's just see what 139 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 2: this looks like. And it was again mostly women. And 140 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 2: during that time, also as an employed psychiatrist, I was 141 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 2: working in Cleveland Clinics Women's mental health department and not 142 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 2: necessarily knowing what that was, but I just knew that 143 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 2: I was drawn to women that had these life experiences, 144 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:46,719 Speaker 2: whether it was pregnancy loss, postpartum, postpartum depression as well 145 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 2: as anxiety, and them really wanting to come to the 146 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 2: office and really say, hey, I have a place to go, 147 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 2: I have someone that understands me and also me going 148 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 2: through my own particular journey in motherhood really made me gravitate. 149 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 2: So just disclosure my graduated residency, I was going through 150 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 2: my own particular transition like Okay, I'm attending, now what's next. 151 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 2: Got married during that first year, I lost my grandmother 152 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 2: during that first year out of residency, and I had 153 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 2: a miscarriage, and so going through all those particular life 154 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 2: transitions and not knowing where to turn. So here I 155 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 2: am as a psychiatrist telling my clients or patients these 156 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 2: coping strategies what to do, and I'm really not practicing 157 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 2: what I'm telling them. So I'm not practicing what I'm preaching. 158 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 2: And if I do want to have help or search 159 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 2: out that particular individual, I did not know where to go. 160 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 2: I knew myself because I need to go to someone 161 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 2: that I can receive this information from. I needed to 162 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,319 Speaker 2: go to someone that I can feel that I can 163 00:09:55,400 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 2: relate to. And that is why I think, ultimately, Hey, 164 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 2: where is this place or how could I develop this 165 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 2: space this place where I as a mother, I as 166 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 2: a woman would want to go to and not go 167 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 2: to a particular place where it's not conducive to my 168 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 2: mental health, like my provider perhaps doesn't get me, or 169 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 2: like the physical location is kind of like dim and 170 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 2: not conducive to my mental health. It's not inviting or 171 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 2: giving me aspirations. And so that is what I wanted 172 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 2: to create for my women. I wanted to create a 173 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 2: space that I know that I would want to go to, 174 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 2: that I will feel comfortable and I know that I'm 175 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 2: getting the necessary tools that I know that I needed 176 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 2: at that time of my life. 177 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you have further specialized in reproductive psychiatry. Can 178 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: you say more about that specialty. 179 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 2: So, reproductive psychiatry is basically a specialty in psychiatry where 180 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 2: we follow the women throughout her reproductive cycle. So that 181 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 2: can be whether it is challenges with infertility, whether it 182 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:04,319 Speaker 2: is miscarriages or even elective or even spontaneous abortions, those 183 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 2: who are pregnant or desiring to get pregnant, those who 184 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 2: have had their child. And now maybe I'm going through 185 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 2: something that is further than the baby blues, maybe I'm 186 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,319 Speaker 2: having some postpartum mood or anxiety symptoms or even psychosis. 187 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 2: And then also traveling with that woman when you go 188 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 2: through mental pause or perimental pausal symptoms, So really understanding 189 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 2: that we're very complex and we have hormones, we have 190 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 2: other challenges as relates to all the many things or 191 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 2: people that are pulling on to us, and so just 192 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 2: following her throughout her cycle, her journey just as a woman. 193 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: And have you found that this reproductive kind of spectrum 194 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: is where many women actually turn to wanting to have 195 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: some mental health support or their particular challenges that you 196 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: found that pop up during this period that make somebody 197 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: more likely to seek out services. 198 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 2: I have found that some women or just general population 199 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 2: don't know that we exist. And once they find out 200 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 2: that we exist and we are a place where we 201 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 2: can really relate to each other and hey, yes I'm 202 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 2: not sleeping and I'm forty five or I'm close to 203 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,719 Speaker 2: mental pause. Is that something yes, we can really think 204 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 2: about that. Also having some cognitive or brain fog, Yes, 205 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 2: that may be associated with perimental pause. So really educating 206 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 2: others and letting them know that we exist and there 207 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 2: is help. And so I do say, yes, we productive psychiatry, 208 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 2: but it's just in general women's mental health and whatever 209 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 2: that means to you that if we don't have it here, 210 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 2: we can provide resources where it is for therapy met 211 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 2: management groups. So really understanding that we exist and educating 212 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 2: the population that this is a specialty in psychiatry. 213 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: That can mean mean one of the things we talk 214 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 1: about on the podcast, and that I feel like lots 215 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,079 Speaker 1: more women are talking about and getting diagnoses for things 216 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 1: like PCOS and endometriosis. We know that there's like the 217 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: medical kind of symptom side, Well, what are some of 218 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: the mental health challenges that come up with something like 219 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: a diagnosis like PCOS. 220 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 2: Well with PCs, and this is like as we can 221 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 2: just generalize it as some times of ovarian challenge or 222 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 2: ovarian failure, and so there's a lot of symptoms that 223 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 2: may come with that, whether it's physical symptoms of like ecniques, 224 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 2: assive hair growth and fertility or problems conceiving, and so 225 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 2: that can really play a part in someone's mental health journey, 226 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 2: whether it is self esteem, whether that is some type 227 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 2: of guilt or shame and just anxiety. If you are 228 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 2: family planning, what does that look like for me? And 229 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:47,319 Speaker 2: providing that support to that the client as well as 230 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 2: providing that support if you're working with your ovg U 231 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 2: I N I think it's very necessary those patients are 232 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 2: clients that I have with those particular diagnoses. They deal 233 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 2: with the uncertainty and so that uncertain of me wanting 234 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,959 Speaker 2: to have a child, the uncertainty of what are these 235 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 2: medications that my obgi in has put me on, whether 236 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 2: it is some type of bird control peel, what type 237 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 2: of pill that is that gon'll cause me to have 238 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 2: some mood swings. So really supporting that patient through this 239 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 2: journey of whatever she chooses. Hey, I'm on this to 240 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 2: regulate any type of physical symptoms that I may be experiencing. 241 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 2: I'm on this medication to make sure that I'm putting 242 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 2: myself in the big chance to conceive or have a 243 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 2: family plan just knowing that, Hey, we see you, we 244 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 2: understand what you may be going through. There's some resources 245 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 2: here and it goes far to you on just medications, 246 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 2: it can just be okay, I'm here to listen. I'm 247 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 2: here to listen to for your concerns and what are 248 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 2: your goals we can have a treatment plan altogether. 249 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: And what is your approach to medication management For somebody 250 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: who may be struggling with something like anxiety and depression 251 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: if they are also kind of on the fertility journey. Right, 252 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: So maybe they are taking fertility medications. 253 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 2: What's that a So, to be honest, my ladies come 254 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 2: in apprehensive. They come in, Okay, I don't know about 255 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 2: these medications, and I heard about you psychiatrists. You guys 256 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 2: are going to prescribe these medications and I tell them, no, 257 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 2: it's individualize and I'm going to tell you my recommendations. 258 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 2: I'm going to also communicate to you that, hey, this 259 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 2: is what I am hearing from you in terms of 260 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 2: any impairment, whether it is in your sleep, your mood, 261 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 2: your appetite, just in any impairment in your quality of life. 262 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 2: And my job as a psychiatrist is to let you 263 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 2: know your options. And so if you are going on 264 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 2: your fertility journey and I can understand why you are 265 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 2: a little bit hesitant of adding another medication, I can say, hey, 266 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 2: there is limited research and that's just the nature of 267 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,479 Speaker 2: it in terms of you're dealing with women of infertility 268 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 2: or pregnant women that we have limited research, but there 269 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 2: is some out there. But there is some reviews saying 270 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 2: that hey, even if you're on the medications like an SRI, 271 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 2: a selective serotonin uptake inhibitor and those different parameters in 272 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 2: terms of your ability to conceive. It has not shown 273 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 2: any particular detrimental effects of you in your inability to 274 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 2: conceive while you're going on this journey. But everything is 275 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 2: individualized to you, so we have to weigh out all 276 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 2: risk and benefits. As a psychiatrist or a medical doctor, 277 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 2: I work closely with the obguy is to make sure 278 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 2: I know all the medications that you're taking. We're doing 279 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 2: drug interactions, making sure my stuff is I'm missing with 280 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 2: her stuff, And it's really having that necessary collaborative care 281 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 2: to make you feel comfortable and let you know your options. 282 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 2: But I'm going to let you know hesis like, we 283 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 2: need to make sure that you are good because when 284 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 2: you do conceive that we are reducing our particular risk 285 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 2: of low birth rate or pre term labor. We're really 286 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 2: looking at the risk and benefits for you as well 287 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 2: as the baby. It's a team effort and understand and 288 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 2: that at the center of the team it's you as 289 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 2: the client and the patient. So I'm gonna tell you 290 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 2: my recommendations, the OBGUI is gonna tell you her recommendations, 291 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 2: and we're gonna all work together and make sure you 292 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 2: feel heard and sing mm hmm. 293 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 1: You know another place where this often comes up around 294 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: do I take medication do I not? Is actually after 295 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: somebody has given birth, right and maybe they're breastfeeding, and 296 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: so there may be still some like anxiety depression symptoms 297 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: that medication actually could be really helpful for. But I 298 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: think a lot of new moms are very concerned like, oh, 299 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: this is gonna be harmful to the baby. Can you 300 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about some of the considerations of 301 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 1: taking medication, like when you're breastfeeding. 302 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 2: So if we're dealing with depression or anxiety, my go 303 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 2: to has been searchling and that's just how I have 304 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 2: been trained. They have those parameters you look for. Okay, 305 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 2: it's just safe the lactation. 306 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:56,239 Speaker 1: Yes it is. 307 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 2: How does this work with when I'm pregnant? And do 308 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 2: I have to taper off my medications when I get 309 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 2: pregnant again? It depends on how you are doing and 310 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 2: making sure that we're weighing risk and benefits. Have I 311 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 2: had clients that have done great on this medication. Oh 312 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 2: you're pregnant, awesome, How are you feeling? What are your concerns? 313 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 2: And Doctor Sanders or doctor Mimi, I'm good, keep me 314 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 2: on my medication. Okay, I'm going to let you know 315 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 2: that we're going to be seeing each other a little 316 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 2: bit more frequently. I'm going to be monitoring your mood 317 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,719 Speaker 2: and sending you all types of screenings to your portal 318 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 2: more frequently. And so I'm your extra set of ears 319 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 2: and eyes, and you tell me how you're feeling, whether 320 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 2: it's once a week, so really having that communication. But 321 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 2: there's research saying that hey, stand on this medication is 322 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 2: good for you and the baby, especially if you have 323 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 2: experienced depression in the past prior to pregnancy. We know 324 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 2: that you're at greater risk, and we want to make 325 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 2: sure that we're making an environment from a pregnancy standpoint, 326 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 2: from a postpartum standpoint that is conduces for you and 327 00:18:57,840 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 2: the child. 328 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, more from our conversation after the break. So 329 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: in addition to conversations around medicine, we've already talked a 330 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: little bit about like unpacking the stigmas that are sometimes 331 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: related to things like fertility or just kind of I 332 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: think mental health in general in the black community. What 333 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: does that look like when you were working with your 334 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: clients to help them kind of unpack some of these stigmas. 335 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 2: So considering that there perhaps would be some type of 336 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 2: going on a fertility journey, and depending on how long 337 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 2: you've been on it, there can be some issues around 338 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:44,360 Speaker 2: your womanhood. And this is what I grew up of 339 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 2: wanting to I'm able to produce. This is how I 340 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 2: grew up people around me, this is what we were 341 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 2: made for in terms of women in order to have 342 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 2: a child. And if I'm having some type of challenges 343 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,719 Speaker 2: or barriers, what does that mean for me as a woman? 344 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 2: And so I look at that and we challenge those thoughts. 345 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 2: We challenge those thoughts and say, Okay, what do you 346 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 2: believe in terms of your womanhood and do you know 347 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 2: your particular options when it comes to the different types 348 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:17,439 Speaker 2: of assistant reproductive technology or fertility treatments. So really leading 349 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 2: into those particular thoughts that you have as a woman, 350 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 2: how you define your womanhood, challenging any particular shame, letting 351 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 2: you know that you don't have to go through this alone, 352 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 2: and if you feel yourself having to hide this or 353 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 2: feel is secretive, that here's a place that you can 354 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 2: really be vulnerable and have a deeper dive of what 355 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 2: that looks like for you going through this journey and 356 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 2: as it relates to taking medication, you take a medication 357 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 2: does not mean that you are weak. Does that mean 358 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 2: that you need a little bit extra push. No, it 359 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 2: just means that, hey, this is the right treatment option 360 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 2: for me in this season. And do I have to 361 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 2: be on medication for the rest of my life? No, 362 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 2: But if you want to, I have pages and say, 363 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,360 Speaker 2: don't touch anything that I'm doing fine, I am operating, 364 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 2: I'm living the best quality of life. I really love 365 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 2: how I feel. And so it's really looking at that 366 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 2: person or the client making sure that I hear you. 367 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 2: I see you. I'm not devaluing your concerns, but I 368 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 2: want to educate you as much as possible and let 369 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 2: you also challenge any of those false beliefs that you 370 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 2: have had about what womanhood means to you and not 371 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 2: what the expectations have been placed on you. 372 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: So you know what I mean. I feel like we've 373 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: had growing conversations around things like postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety. 374 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 1: But what kinds of things do you feel like we 375 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: still need to talk more about as it relates to 376 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 1: the postpartum period in a woman's life. 377 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 2: So when we hear postpartum automatically. I've seen that patients 378 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 2: think postpartum depression, and we really are not leaning into 379 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 2: post part of anxiety, which I see more in my clinic. 380 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 2: Is that post part of anxiety and that separate racial 381 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,959 Speaker 2: anxiety that the new mom has with her baby. I 382 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 2: also think that we need to lean more into what 383 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 2: does me returning to work look like? And what does 384 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 2: this new normal look like? And is there options for 385 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 2: me to spend more time to bond with my baby 386 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 2: and what does that look like? And so I have 387 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,919 Speaker 2: had many patients come to me and say, I'm just 388 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,719 Speaker 2: not ready to return to work. I fear that no 389 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 2: one can take care of that baby like I can. 390 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 2: I feel that I'm going to miss out on some 391 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 2: particular mouthstones when I'm at work. And then we look 392 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 2: at that and said, okay, what else do you need? 393 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,959 Speaker 2: And so what was your postpartum plan and have we 394 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 2: deviated from that? If so, how are we in terms 395 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 2: of our pivot? What are our options and what are truths? So, yes, 396 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,959 Speaker 2: you are doing a great job as a mom, and 397 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 2: you have those particular safety concerns, but is that postpartum 398 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 2: anxiety leaning more in terms of obsessiveness? And you having 399 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 2: to check that monitor a little bit too often. Now 400 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 2: you can't take care of yourself and you're not sleeping. 401 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 2: We're trying to get the sleep that you can on 402 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 2: when the baby is sleeping. So just leading more into 403 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 2: looking into post part of anxiety and not always thinking 404 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 2: that it's postpartum depression and that post part of anxiety 405 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 2: can lead to secondary depression, but really saying, okay, what 406 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 2: is that anxiety? Is it interfering with me taking care 407 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 2: of myself therefore also interfering with me taking care of 408 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 2: my baby the best way I can. What does that 409 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 2: separation anxiety look like? And what is realistic plans for 410 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 2: me to return to work? And if I'm not ready, 411 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 2: how can I have that conversation with my physicians or 412 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 2: with your psychiatrists so we can have a really good 413 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 2: plan for you and the child. 414 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,199 Speaker 1: So how do you know, doctor Mimi, if something is 415 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,959 Speaker 1: just normal kind of especially for first time moms, right, like, 416 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: how is it different? How is just regular new mom anxiety? Like, 417 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:58,959 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, what do I do? How do I 418 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: take care of this baby? How do you know when 419 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:02,919 Speaker 1: it is crossed the line to be the something that 420 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 1: might meet criteria for anxiety and that you might need 421 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:06,360 Speaker 1: to talk with someone about it. 422 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 2: So I asked them to give me a time period. 423 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 2: So let's just say, Okay, I'm anxious got your baby's safety. 424 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 2: And so I'm asking you, well, how many times are 425 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 2: you checking that monitor? And when are you checking it? 426 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 2: And some patients will say I'm not even checking the 427 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 2: monitor and I'm sleeping outside the door, or you know, 428 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 2: Or I said, well, have we interview if you do 429 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 2: a daycare, have we interviewed any particular nannies. They have 430 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 2: this idea of the baby can come with them, she 431 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 2: can't leave them and go to target with her mother. 432 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 2: What she knows is a safe person. And so I'm 433 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 2: asking them, okay, how are you maneuvering through life? And 434 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 2: how many hours out the day are you having to 435 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 2: obsess over the safety your concerns for your child. And 436 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 2: I look at that and say, okay, out of the 437 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 2: twenty four hour period you're spending just say this twelve 438 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 2: hours plus really focusing on hey, what if I did 439 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 2: not bathe the baby right? What if they did not 440 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,360 Speaker 2: shake up the bottle this many times at that feeding? 441 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 2: So just really looking into those particular thoughts and say Okay, 442 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 2: are they rational? Were you thinking like this prior to pregnancy? 443 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 2: And don't just really having that good interview with the 444 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 2: mom and just debunking those particular myths of no one 445 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 2: can take care of the baby like you can. Granted 446 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 2: you are that child's mom and you have that particular bonding, 447 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 2: but also you know that you have to have some 448 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 2: support and knowing that, hey, I can trust my partner, 449 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 2: I can trust any other family supports around me, so 450 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 2: I can take care of myself. Are you showering? Are 451 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 2: you feeding yourself? Are you really taking care of yourself? 452 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 2: And has those things gone neglected because of you obsessing 453 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 2: or being very anxious about your child? So we really 454 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 2: take a deeper dive of like what does this look like? 455 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 2: And it's this, Okay, it's this rational for you. And 456 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 2: so I will find my lady saying no, I should 457 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 2: be able to not sleep outside the door, or I 458 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 2: should be able to leave my baby with my mom 459 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 2: in order for me to go get me a cup 460 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 2: of soup or something. So it's just really listening to 461 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,360 Speaker 2: her and allow herself to listen to her own thoughts 462 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 2: and challenging and facilitating the challenging of those thoughts. So, 463 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 2: but really again leaning into that postpart anxiety, that separation, 464 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,360 Speaker 2: that guilt of hey, I'm going to miss every milestone 465 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 2: if I do return to work. No, no, no, you're not. 466 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 2: You are You are engaged in your child's development, and 467 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 2: you will know and you will be able to experience 468 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 2: those things. But we are not devaluing how you're feeling. 469 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 2: We just want to make sure that you're taking care 470 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 2: of yourself. M h. 471 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: You mentioned the baby monitor, and I feel like technology 472 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: has evolved so much beyond monitors, right, so now there's 473 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 1: a little sock the baby can wear, there's something you 474 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: can put under their mattress. How do you feel about 475 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,439 Speaker 1: these tools, Like do you feel like they're actually helping 476 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: moms and parents to kind of manage anxiety or do 477 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: you feel like in some ways they can kind of 478 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: increase the anxiety. 479 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 2: In some ways, it's increasing it because now you have 480 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,360 Speaker 2: different parameters that you're trying to make sure that you're 481 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,719 Speaker 2: staying within. It's just a lot of noises and things 482 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 2: and notifications are going out. And so imagine if you're 483 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 2: already anxious and your hormones are already all over the place, 484 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 2: and now you're having all these apps and notifications come 485 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,959 Speaker 2: on your phone, and so I would tell them, hey, 486 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 2: let's just turn off too, Let's turn it off, and 487 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 2: then okay, how are we feeling? We feel it? Okay, 488 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 2: was baby girl? Baby boy? Okay? Yes, we can still 489 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 2: watch the monitor and if you're at daycare, yes, zoom 490 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 2: in and let me see what you guys are doing 491 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,919 Speaker 2: over there. But we have to make sure that we 492 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 2: are not exaggerating our anxiety with all these developments and technology, 493 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 2: but still understanding that. Yeah, especially as first time moms, 494 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 2: like this is my first baby. I've gone through this 495 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 2: particular journey to have this child, and so I value 496 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 2: that I see that. But we have to make sure again, 497 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 2: how are you mom, because we cannot neglect ourselves because 498 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,199 Speaker 2: we have someone else that kind of come into the picture. 499 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 2: We also lean into your support. So instead of those notifications, 500 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 2: if you are fortunate enough to have that family support, 501 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 2: lead into that instead of you know, the technology and notifications. 502 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: So, speaking of support, like what kinds of things would 503 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: you say to partners and other family members about how 504 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: to support somebody who is kind of in the postpartum 505 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: period and maybe how to recognize like when they need 506 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: to escalate and talk to somebody else. 507 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 2: I recently did a recertification in my perinatal mental health class, 508 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:51,959 Speaker 2: and we talked about a postpartum plan and sharing that 509 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 2: plan of course with your supports prior to the birth 510 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 2: of the baby, and during that conversation or during that 511 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 2: eyelock with your support, letting them know and also being 512 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,719 Speaker 2: educated as the patient of what this does look like. 513 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 2: If I am having some type of irritability, mood, anxiousness, 514 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 2: and so if I do start to exhibit some of 515 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 2: those particular signs and symptoms, then this is how I 516 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 2: wish for you to communicate to me about what you see. 517 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 2: And I'm very opened for you to communicate that to 518 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 2: me because once I give birth, I know that I'm 519 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 2: going to have some fluctuations in my mood, some fluctuations 520 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 2: due to my hormones, and so I may not be 521 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 2: able to recognize that within myself. So during my postpartum 522 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 2: plan that I'm doing pre baby, I really need you 523 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 2: to let me know how I'm doing. Encourage me to 524 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 2: take care of myself, make sure that I have meals 525 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 2: because my focus will be whether it's breastfeeding or feeding 526 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,719 Speaker 2: that baby. So make sure that you're taking care of 527 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 2: me as I'm trying my best to take care of 528 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 2: my new born. So having that conversation pre baby, setting 529 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 2: a postpartum plan with your family members or that loved 530 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 2: one or that partner, I think it will be very 531 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 2: very helpful. And then also, hey, if I get to 532 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 2: a point where I'm unable to receive from you, who's backup, 533 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 2: who's your backup that can that can communicate to me? 534 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 2: And also making sure that you, if it is my partner, 535 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 2: how are you going through this process? And I don't 536 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 2: want you to neglect your needs, partner, so you make 537 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 2: sure that you have your own particular support. So having 538 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 2: a postpartum plan pre baby, I thought it was very 539 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 2: good advice that they were giving us to tell our 540 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 2: clients let's develop it, but also not be so rigid 541 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 2: that we have to stick to it, and so we 542 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 2: know areas where we can pivot. But hey, please let 543 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 2: me know if I am not having the quality of 544 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 2: life that you know that I should have. So making 545 00:30:55,280 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 2: sure my basics, eating, my social connectivity, my sleeping, so 546 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 2: help me out because we're not going to get the 547 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 2: sleep that we did. But what does this look like 548 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 2: now for me? To make sure as I have gone 549 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 2: through this experience of giving birth, making sure that I 550 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 2: am sleeping good. And then again, well you're not exercising, 551 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 2: but when I can, and if that's something that I 552 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 2: used to like to do, encourage me because that also 553 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 2: has its added benefits. 554 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: Are there any resources in particular that you knew of, 555 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: doctor Mimi that are specifically for men to support the 556 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 1: women in their lives around reproductive psychiatry. 557 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,959 Speaker 2: So there's a website and Postpartum Support International and so 558 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,959 Speaker 2: on that website. It has different tabs and it's also 559 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 2: they have support groups for partners that you can kind 560 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 2: of put in your zip code figure out where you 561 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 2: could go whether and also if it is virtual for 562 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 2: your partners and they can have male groups and then 563 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 2: also other partner relationship groups. And I believe that was 564 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 2: a really good website. And also on that website directory 565 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 2: for those who are reproductive psychiatrists or how do I 566 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 2: find a provider? And so that is kind of a 567 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,239 Speaker 2: website that I give my clients if you're looking for 568 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 2: support groups, if you're looking for other providers, therapists, other psychiatrists, 569 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 2: just other resources when you're going through this perinatal journey. 570 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: Thank you for that. More from our conversation after the break. 571 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: So earlier in our conversation you talked a little bit 572 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: about you know, we spend a lot of time talking 573 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: about like the fertility journey, postpartum kind of pre postpartum, 574 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: but also perimenopause and menopause, right, is another part of 575 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: this psycho that women go through. You mentioned it like 576 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,719 Speaker 1: brain fog and like some cognitive concerns. What are some 577 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,479 Speaker 1: of the particular mental health kinds of symptoms that we 578 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: see kind of in this perimenopause menopause stage. 579 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 2: Well, and just self disclosure, like I'm freezing the whole 580 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 2: house out in terms of high insomnia, you know, Okay, 581 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 2: brain fog. So the mental health, it could just be 582 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 2: mood swings because your hormones are literally swinging, they're decreasing, 583 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 2: and so mood swings, irritability, lolabido, and also just physical 584 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 2: symptoms of whether it is vaginal dryness that can also 585 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 2: contribute to your lo levito. So just for perimental pause 586 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 2: or just going through mental pause, look it out for 587 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 2: those symptoms of yes, hot you hear hot and cold flashes, 588 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 2: but also that cognitive of slowing or that brain fog, Hey, 589 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 2: I'm not as quick as I used to get Okay, 590 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 2: just give me some time. But mood swings that irritability 591 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 2: and that snappiness sometimes it can lead to depression. So 592 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 2: again it's different for ladies all ladies. So also you 593 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 2: can I ask, if you have a mom that you're 594 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 2: able to ask, Okay, what time when did you go 595 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 2: through this? How is your experiences because it may be 596 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 2: similar to hers, and so you can be on the 597 00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 2: lookouts of those particular symptoms, but moved symptoms of just anxiety, depression, irritability, 598 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 2: just some type of what we call liability in your mood, 599 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 2: not knowing how I'm feeling, and also just I'm not 600 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 2: sleeping as well as I used to. And what are 601 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 2: my particular options? And I do, of course work with 602 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 2: the obgui ns about this, so I leave the hormone 603 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 2: replacement to them if they choose to go that route, 604 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,839 Speaker 2: and if not, we still have medications from my standpoint 605 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 2: as relates to depression or anxiety, as well as we 606 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:35,399 Speaker 2: have medications from a psychiatry standpoint for hot flashes. So 607 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 2: there are options and we work together. And if you 608 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 2: are on hormone replacement therapy, your obgui in can do that, 609 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 2: and so you may not need as much as medications 610 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 2: on my end for those hot flashes for that irritability 611 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 2: because now you have that replacement from a hormonal standpoint. 612 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: So I would imagine that all of this is kind 613 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 1: of connected. But how do you distinguish between like anxiety 614 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,240 Speaker 1: and depression symptoms that may be really it's a perimenopause 615 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 1: versus something that is just like maybe a generalized anxiety 616 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,760 Speaker 1: disorder or major depressive disorder or does it even matter. 617 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 2: I would say it matters, but then it doesn't doct 618 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,280 Speaker 2: enjoy because the way that you would know if it's hormonal, okay, 619 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,239 Speaker 2: you're getting your your levels checked and if you want 620 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 2: to elect to go to hormone replacement, okay, But it 621 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 2: doesn't really matter because we're going to treat it the 622 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 2: same way from my standpoint. So if you're having some depression, 623 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 2: you're having some anxiety, you're having some insomnia. If it 624 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 2: was not for your hormones and it was like more 625 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,439 Speaker 2: of an I guess organic type of or depression or anxiety, 626 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 2: then I'm still going to give you your treatment recommendations 627 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 2: of Hey, this is what you can use for medications 628 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 2: you can use a villa faccine. We can use a 629 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 2: peroxytine for these symptoms. So it really doesn't matter because 630 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 2: I'm going to treat it the same way. But if 631 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 2: you really want the root, cause, let's get some of 632 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 2: your hormone levels, and if you elect to go this 633 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 2: way in terms of homo replacement therapy, you can. And 634 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 2: if you don't, then we can lean into my medications. 635 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 2: But if you elect to do both, we can do both. 636 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 2: So it kind of doesn't matter. It's all connected. It's biological, 637 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 2: it's psychological, it's got social aspects. So it's like a 638 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 2: biopsychosocial treatment plan that we all just have to agree 639 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,319 Speaker 2: on and just know that, hey, we are working on 640 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:21,840 Speaker 2: your team and we want to make sure that you 641 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 2: are living your life the way that you want to 642 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,320 Speaker 2: and it's the best quality. Yeah, in all stages. 643 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 1: You're right. So what would you say to a sister 644 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 1: Docum maybe who might be listening to us, and you know, 645 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,319 Speaker 1: maybe she's in our forties or fifties and feels like 646 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,839 Speaker 1: her mental health is kind of steadily unraveling. What kinds 647 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: of things would you say to her? And where should 648 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 1: she start? 649 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 2: I would say, go see someone. Okay, if you have 650 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 2: any particular barriers from a mental standpoint, saying hey, I 651 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 2: don't want to go see anybody, I don't want to 652 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 2: tell anybody my business. I don't want to feel like 653 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,799 Speaker 2: I need some help in my emotional well being. It 654 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 2: just makes me feel kind of weak. Just try your 655 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 2: best to push through it, because that's the hardest part. 656 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 2: And once you get to that person or you get 657 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 2: to that person that you vibe with, and you can 658 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,759 Speaker 2: really kind of say, Okay, this is what I'm going through. 659 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,240 Speaker 2: I do feel like I'm unraveling in my mid forties, 660 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 2: my fifties. I know things are off. What do you 661 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 2: got from me? And really educating yourself on your options, 662 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 2: educating yourself on hey, there are resources. I don't have 663 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 2: to be on medication. I just may need someone to 664 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,520 Speaker 2: talk to and help me through this particular transition in 665 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 2: my life. We have never been this particular age before, 666 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,399 Speaker 2: and so really giving yourself that grace and saying hey, 667 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 2: I may not have needed that help when I was thirty, However, 668 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,720 Speaker 2: I have gone through a lot of things. Between thirty 669 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 2: and forty five, I have gone through a lot of 670 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:49,319 Speaker 2: season changes, a lot of transitions, and perhaps my resilience 671 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 2: is not as much as it used to be. And 672 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 2: that's okay, that's not making me weak. It makes me 673 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 2: know that I need to lean into some support that 674 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 2: now I know I have resources. 675 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, any tips for advocating yourself with medical professionals. 676 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,840 Speaker 2: It's funny that you asked. I recently told one of 677 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 2: my clients. I said, hey, go back to that obgui 678 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 2: in and let her know that you want some birth control. 679 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,239 Speaker 2: And so she was a patient that married, has been 680 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:20,120 Speaker 2: married for several years, but they just wasn't not at 681 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 2: a stage where they wanted to have children, and going 682 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 2: to see her obguy in, she didn't bring up the 683 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 2: fact that she wanted to be on birth control, and 684 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 2: the provider didn't either, because the provider automatically assume you're married, 685 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 2: you were in your career, you have this particular support. 686 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 2: Why wouldn't you want to have children? And so we 687 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 2: really had to work on that conversation in our sessions 688 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 2: and say no, you can really advocate for yourself and 689 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 2: just say hey, no, please tell me more about my 690 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 2: birth control options. Tell me more because right now I 691 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 2: want to do proper family planning for me. And it 692 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,480 Speaker 2: wasn't any particular knock for that provider. It was just 693 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 2: maybe it was some implicit bias of like, hey, I 694 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 2: just thought that she wanted to have children. She's married, 695 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,840 Speaker 2: and she has this particular setup that I think, you know, 696 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 2: it's beneficial for bringing in a child, But really her 697 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,280 Speaker 2: and myself and the patient really having those role playing 698 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,839 Speaker 2: type of discussions in session and saying, no, I want 699 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,400 Speaker 2: to know my options. Also, I wanted to know if 700 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 2: I want to be on a Monte phase or try 701 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:28,319 Speaker 2: phase a birth control peel. So we're really knowing and 702 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:33,399 Speaker 2: educating ourselves about options and making sure that we are 703 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:38,320 Speaker 2: telling our providers what you desire and advocating and showing 704 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 2: up for yourself and having that voice. And so I'm 705 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:44,960 Speaker 2: just the one in the background, just kind of just pushing, okay, 706 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,840 Speaker 2: talk to her. So, yeah, she was my patient, she 707 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,479 Speaker 2: got on her birth control. She is fine, she said, Okay, 708 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,239 Speaker 2: I feel so I'm so less anxious. I'm so less anxious. 709 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really great suggestion, you know, role playing, right, like, 710 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:00,360 Speaker 1: how can you role play with the tr to the 711 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,319 Speaker 1: other person, what kinds of conversations you might neither have 712 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,720 Speaker 1: with your primary care doctor? Or your obgyn or whoever. Yes, yeah, 713 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 1: any other resources or affirmations that you find yourself kind 714 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 1: of using in your practice. 715 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 2: In my practice, so I'm a psychiatrist, but I say 716 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,319 Speaker 2: I do a little sprinkle of adult psychotherapy within my 717 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 2: sessions for these of my clients, and so I do 718 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 2: lean in, especially with my very busy ladies, and just 719 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,600 Speaker 2: those basic skills of mindfulness is just slowing down and 720 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 2: practicing stillness, and so we really do those mindful exercises 721 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,839 Speaker 2: of just hey, you don't have to eat at your 722 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,239 Speaker 2: desk at work. You could actually go to the break 723 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,360 Speaker 2: room and you could actually eat mindfully in the breakroom 724 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,680 Speaker 2: away from your computer. And those mindful are just those 725 00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 2: breathing exercises, So just really slowing down because we are 726 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 2: in I think an anxious society because everything is so fast, 727 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,239 Speaker 2: it's all at you at once, and so just taking 728 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,880 Speaker 2: those moments to do that mindful exercise where it's eating, 729 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,840 Speaker 2: whether it is breathing. When we're trying to go to 730 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,520 Speaker 2: sleep and we're having some issues, do those progressive muscle relaxations, 731 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:13,320 Speaker 2: So just really slowing down your movement, slowing down your mind, 732 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,240 Speaker 2: so you really can practice being in that present moment, 733 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:21,200 Speaker 2: and so I often give out mindful or DVT exercises 734 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,279 Speaker 2: to my patients throughout the portal and just challenging those 735 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:30,520 Speaker 2: negative thought patterns and changing our perspectives and again advocating 736 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 2: for yourself in those conversations. Hey, what do you truly desire? 737 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,760 Speaker 2: Because we often do a lot of things for other people. Hey, 738 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,759 Speaker 2: we are perhaps at an age now where we have 739 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 2: poured out enough and let's steit back and let's be 740 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,719 Speaker 2: mindful and let's allow other support in to us, but 741 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,879 Speaker 2: also let's teach them how we desire to be poured into. 742 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, so where can we stay connected with you? Doctor Mimi? 743 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,399 Speaker 1: What is your website as well as any social media 744 00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 1: channels you'd like to share? 745 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:01,920 Speaker 2: Yes, so my practice is community Health, So it's I 746 00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,239 Speaker 2: n N EER Community Health and that's innercommunity Health dot 747 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:09,840 Speaker 2: com and you can find all information there. Resources. Also, 748 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 2: if you are a healthcare provider and you are looking 749 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:18,400 Speaker 2: for reproductive psychiatrists, nurse practitioners, therapists, we have that in 750 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,080 Speaker 2: house at our practice and you can actually click on 751 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 2: referral and we make sure that we can provide those 752 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:30,160 Speaker 2: services for your clients. We see patients or clients in Georgia, Virginia, Maryland, 753 00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,040 Speaker 2: and Ohio, and of course we see those who are 754 00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,839 Speaker 2: not in Georgia virtually, but my social media handles are 755 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:41,080 Speaker 2: doctrimimi dot care, so d r m imi dot care 756 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,400 Speaker 2: on all social platforms. But yeah, and you can also 757 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,880 Speaker 2: just call the practice and get with our concierge or 758 00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 2: our office manager. And that's eight hundred sixty two zero 759 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,480 Speaker 2: six nine five zero. So we just really want to 760 00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 2: be a place where this is, yes for women, but 761 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,279 Speaker 2: it is just for that total person to provide that 762 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:06,480 Speaker 2: spectrum of care from whether it's individualized to group therapies, 763 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 2: also to intents of outpatient programming that we are going 764 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:13,880 Speaker 2: to start this coming up late summer, so we're excited 765 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,000 Speaker 2: about that and that's going to have a heavy focus 766 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:21,520 Speaker 2: on those that have just reproductive issues. And also, hey, 767 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,480 Speaker 2: we're showing active treatment, so if you do need that 768 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,920 Speaker 2: particular time off, then hey, this is a place where 769 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,720 Speaker 2: I can really get those coping strategies, it's culping skills, 770 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:34,080 Speaker 2: and also be under physician's care. So we're just excited 771 00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,239 Speaker 2: about how we're scaling and growing and just be in 772 00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 2: that place again that I desire during my life transitions. 773 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,240 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for that, Doctor mean we should 774 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:49,880 Speaker 1: include all of that in the show notes. I'm so 775 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,360 Speaker 1: happy doctor Sanders is able to join us for today's 776 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,120 Speaker 1: episode to learn more about her and her work. We 777 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,520 Speaker 1: should have visited the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls 778 00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:01,040 Speaker 1: dot com Session four fifteen, and don't forget to text 779 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,000 Speaker 1: this episode to two of your girls right now and 780 00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,160 Speaker 1: tell them to check it out. Did you know that 781 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,320 Speaker 1: you could leave us a voicemail with your questions or 782 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,680 Speaker 1: suggestions for the podcast. If you have books you'd like 783 00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,919 Speaker 1: us to review or movies you'd like to suggest, drop 784 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,640 Speaker 1: us a message at Remo dot fm slash Therapy for 785 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:18,680 Speaker 1: Black Girls and let us know what's on your mind. 786 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,160 Speaker 1: We just might feature it on the podcast. If you're 787 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,800 Speaker 1: looking for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist 788 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 1: directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. Don't 789 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,960 Speaker 1: forget to follow us on Instagram at Therapy for Black Girls, 790 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:34,759 Speaker 1: and make sure to join us in our Patreon community 791 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,040 Speaker 1: for exclusive updates, behind the scenes content, and much more. 792 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,120 Speaker 1: You can join us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls 793 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:45,560 Speaker 1: dot com. This episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Indechubu 794 00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:49,560 Speaker 1: and Tyrie Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank 795 00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:51,880 Speaker 1: y'all so much for joining me again this week. I 796 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,319 Speaker 1: look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. 797 00:44:55,920 --> 00:45:01,920 Speaker 1: Take it care what pet foot pen pot fast Woods