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Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome to the It Girl Podcast. I am

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Speaker 1: here with Lauren chan Icon legend it Girl, and my

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Speaker 1: friend who I just love.

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Speaker 2: Right back at you. Thanks for having me, of course.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for coming. Okay, so we're going to jump

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Speaker 1: right in. Take us back to the very beginning. What

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Speaker 1: did you think your life in fashion was going to

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Speaker 1: look like before you actually entered it.

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Speaker 2: I'm not just saying this because it just came up

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Speaker 2: with The Devil Worst Product. Yeah, you know that movie

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Speaker 2: twenty years ago really informed my dream of being a

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Speaker 2: fashion editor here in New York City, and so much

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Speaker 2: of it has come true in both the first and

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Speaker 2: second movies and then some and I've had the opportunity

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Speaker 2: to also like grow my own community and push for

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Speaker 2: diversity and inclusion and start my own brand off the

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Speaker 2: heels of that, and so yeah, I think in my

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Speaker 2: mind's i it looked like The Devil wor'st prato one.

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Speaker 1: Was it like that?

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Speaker 2: The experience of working in those buildings, absolutely absolutely. I

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Speaker 2: Mean I was just speaking to Aileen, the writer of

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Speaker 2: the sequel, and the thing that I said to her was,

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Speaker 2: how did you nail the granular experience of being a

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Speaker 2: fashion editor? So well, to the point that the line

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Speaker 2: about us not being able to take private cars anymore

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Speaker 2: and having to take ubers was in the film, like

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Speaker 2: that really happened. We really all flipped out and there

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Speaker 2: it was on screen, and so yeah, it's pretty true

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Speaker 2: to life. I have to say, I love it.

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Speaker 1: What were your or how did you first land at

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Speaker 1: Glamour and what were those early days like for you specifically?

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Speaker 2: I first landed at Glamour. I went in for interviews

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Speaker 2: as a fashion writer, and Jane Keltner, Devale and Cindy

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Speaker 2: Levy hired me. And it was a dream, you know.

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Speaker 2: I remember walking in there the first day, having had

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Speaker 2: this coming to fruition, you know, and just being like

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Speaker 2: even now I'm getting stopped up, just like thinking about

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Speaker 2: how out of body it was, you know. And then

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Speaker 2: once you're there, you quickly get thrown into the world

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Speaker 2: of work, and it's very real work. It's very hard work.

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Speaker 2: It's around the clock, it's relentless, as everything's an emergency

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Speaker 2: blah blah blah. But more than anything, I found that

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Speaker 2: I didn't really fit in And I maybe knew that before,

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Speaker 2: but I didn't realize that I would be dealing with

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Speaker 2: that in my face all day, every day. And so

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Speaker 2: all of that is to say that eventually, once I

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Speaker 2: kind of got my wits about me there, I started

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Speaker 2: covering plus sized fashion, size inclusive fashion, and diversity at large.

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Speaker 2: And that's really when I hit my groove. And that's

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Speaker 2: really when I started making things that clicked, that resonated

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Speaker 2: with other people, and that built community for me.

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Speaker 1: In what ways do you feel like you've struggled to

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Speaker 1: fit in?

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Speaker 2: Oh, I just am not what you know. Most people

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Speaker 2: in the building looked like, I'm not white, I'm not thin,

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Speaker 2: I'm not American, I'm not a NEPO in any way,

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Speaker 2: not even saying that in a derogatory way. I just

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Speaker 2: don't have anyone in the biz that can help me

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Speaker 2: that's related to me. I couldn't afford the designers that

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Speaker 2: we were covering a subject matter. I couldn't fit into

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Speaker 2: the designers that we were covering a subject matter. And

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Speaker 2: so all of that really is a disadvantage in this

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Speaker 2: world that is built upon the idea of a private club.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is. It really is. Shout out Canadian Queen.

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Speaker 1: At that stage, what did success look like to you

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Speaker 1: in that time and what does it look like to

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Speaker 1: you now.

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Speaker 2: I think success in that time was so driven by

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Speaker 2: like title and promotion and salary and of course a

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Speaker 2: lot that still is in the corporate world. And if

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Speaker 2: I was still working in the corporate world, I would

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Speaker 2: probably feel more aligned with that path to success. But

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Speaker 2: I think since I left I started my own business,

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Speaker 2: I scaled and sold that I became somebody who steps

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Speaker 2: in front of the camera more as a model and

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Speaker 2: TV person, an ambassador, and so success now to me

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Speaker 2: looks like working on things with brands, on campaigns or

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Speaker 2: initiatives that mean something to my heart right and to

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Speaker 2: me that means presentation and inclusion of people who are queer,

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Speaker 2: people who are plus sized, people who are not white,

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Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: So how did being an editor affect your approach to modeling.

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Speaker 1: Did it play into an.

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Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, that's a great question. Thanks for that. I

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Speaker 2: think that having been an editor and a brand founder

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Speaker 2: probably was more actually informative to me helped me model

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Speaker 2: because I know what the client is looking for, whether

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Speaker 2: that's you know, the casting director I e. When I

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Speaker 2: was casting the magazine, or the photographer when I'm modeling clothes.

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Speaker 2: Because I was the one trying to sell the clothes

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Speaker 2: is my responsibility, so I know how it looks best

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Speaker 2: in the shot or translates to a sale or a

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Speaker 2: conversion best. So I think that everything that I've done,

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Speaker 2: even though I've done many things, has like informed the

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Speaker 2: next in a really nice way while still at every

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Speaker 2: step like having a challenge and having to learn new stuff.

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Speaker 2: But you know, it's the same as like your work,

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Speaker 2: you know, like the thing that you do informs the

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Speaker 2: next thing.

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Speaker 1: You know, do you have a favorite role of all

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Speaker 1: of those?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I think this one because it's like

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Speaker 2: I'm sitting here talking to you, this is my job.

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Speaker 2: Today's love.

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Speaker 1: Love. And you don't have to get up at five

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Speaker 1: am and go to an office.

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Speaker 2: That's no. I really cannot believe. I used to get

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Speaker 2: up every day at six or seven, sometimes go to

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Speaker 2: spin class, then do like a full fit and glass.

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Speaker 1: I know the editor girl is blowing my mind.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, Go to a breakfast meeting, go to

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Speaker 2: the office, go to a work dinner and then a

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Speaker 2: brand of it, and then a work dinner and get

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Speaker 2: home at like midnight. Unless I had the wits about

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Speaker 2: me to leave before dessert was served and get home

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Speaker 2: at eleven and do it all again the next time.

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Speaker 1: No, my fashion editor friends, I'm like, you guys are

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Speaker 1: really and then it's like, Oh, I have to go

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Speaker 1: on a vacation and I have to change my outfit

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Speaker 1: six times.

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Speaker 2: I know, I have so much respect for that.

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Speaker 1: Yes, what were you noticing about fashion culture at that

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Speaker 1: time that stuck with you?

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Speaker 2: I think that things were changing in terms of diversity,

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Speaker 2: Like we really were able to move the needle, specifically

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Speaker 2: with our work at Glamour. You know, I had a

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Speaker 2: print column on size inclusion, a digital vert. We had

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Speaker 2: two special issues dedicated entirely to size inclusive fashion. We

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Speaker 2: had a big ad deal with Lane Bryant, wherein I

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Speaker 2: creative directed ten clothing collections and stating glamorax Lane bryan

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Speaker 2: You know, we were giving workshops at Glamor Women of

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Speaker 2: the Year Awards and summit in partnership with the National

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Speaker 2: Eating Disorders Association. It just was such a wonderful time

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Speaker 2: for change in terms of inclusion, and it was just

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Speaker 2: I don't know, it's amazing to feel like the work

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Speaker 2: that you sit down and do every day reaches I mean,

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Speaker 2: in this case, sixty seven percent of American women who

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Speaker 2: were wearing above a size twelve and having an effect

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Speaker 2: on the culture for them.

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Speaker 1: For us, Yeah, it really the industry has changed so

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Speaker 1: much since that time, and I really do think it

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Speaker 1: was the girls like you that were just out there

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Speaker 1: doing something different. Oh thanks, and pioneering and just I

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Speaker 1: feel like the industry was stuck for so long.

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Speaker 2: It was it was such, It was stuck for so long,

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Speaker 2: and I fear that we're kind of in a period

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Speaker 2: where we might be getting stuck again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so too. Yeah, repetitive, cyclical, just like

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Speaker 1: the same thing.

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Speaker 2: Pendulum has really swummed back to this body image ideal

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Speaker 2: that is so thin and so white. Yeah, so conservative.

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Speaker 2: But that is to say the pendulum will swing again,

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Speaker 2: or and the fact that we're just even talking about that,

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Speaker 2: even noticing like whoa hey, that feels like our regression

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Speaker 2: is still in a position of progress because we weren't

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Speaker 2: having that conversation on radio shows or podcasts or in articles.

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Speaker 2: What have you? You know? Ten years ago?

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Speaker 1: How do you currently define what you do at this point?

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Speaker 1: What do you call yourself?

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Speaker 2: My joke is that I'm a public lesbian love that's my.

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Speaker 1: Job, professional public lesbian iconic. Okay, I feel I absolutely

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Speaker 1: love that when you're on set, what feels more like

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Speaker 1: fashion to you versus content?

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Speaker 2: Oh? I really, you know what, I'm going to admit it.

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Speaker 2: I'm not a content creator. I'm not a good content creator.

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Speaker 1: You're a great content creator.

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Speaker 2: I do it as an effect of the job that

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Speaker 2: I have, where when other folks want R ANDD me to,

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Speaker 2: I have a lot of respect for people who you know,

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Speaker 2: get up every day and make their own content and

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Speaker 2: are brilliant at it. I think I'm a fashion person,

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Speaker 2: and so you know, a fashion person with a platform

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Speaker 2: that hopefully is sometimes making some content that people like.

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Speaker 2: But I guess the difference if I was thinking about

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Speaker 2: it from like a reporter lens, is that, like fashion

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Speaker 2: is a cultural thing that we all share and comment on,

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Speaker 2: and you know, work derivatively from and can contribute to.

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Speaker 2: And content is so self owned, which is why it's

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Speaker 2: so important. And actually, you know, content and what they

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Speaker 2: used to be called as bloggers and then influencers, these

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Speaker 2: content creators are actually what really moved the needle on

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Speaker 2: inclusion while I was an editor. It was the fact

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Speaker 2: that we finally had platforms where you could see in

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Speaker 2: numbers in data the amount of people who were creating

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Speaker 2: this content, create this content and sharing it, and so

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Speaker 2: they're definitely intrinsically linked. But I guess I would have

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Speaker 2: all versus self. Okay, I like that.

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Speaker 1: No, that's a great that's a great perspective on it,

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Speaker 1: because one is for everybody, and then one it's just

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Speaker 1: people like literally in their homes creating, and I think

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Speaker 1: that's I think that's a great take. Do you feel

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Speaker 1: more aligned with certain brands or creative directions right now?

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Speaker 2: Definitely. I love emerging brands and emerging designers, and I

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Speaker 2: think that they're the whole world, and I think that

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Speaker 2: they you know, they obviously tend to be more inclusive,

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Speaker 2: more artful. They haven't been kind of beaten down by

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Speaker 2: the capitalism of the industry. And even though retail is

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Speaker 2: less of a juggernaut and can has less control over

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Speaker 2: what brands make, whether that's actual design or sizes, you know,

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Speaker 2: there is still this specialness before these designers really break

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Speaker 2: into the business of fashion, where they are still making art.

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Speaker 2: You know. My favorite thing to look at is graduation collections.

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Speaker 1: Oh.

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Speaker 2: I love that these kids have spent so much time

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Speaker 2: and effort. It's there like probably maybe perhaps one of

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Speaker 2: their first big fashion thesises or collections, and it's you know,

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Speaker 2: it's always got this story that they've been waiting their

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Speaker 2: whole lives to tell, and it really is the most

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Speaker 2: inventive and deep work in fashion.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, that is such a great take and such

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Speaker 1: a great place for people to pull inspiration from, because

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Speaker 1: I don't feel like that is somewhere that people look

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Speaker 1: and then we all look at the same thing, and

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Speaker 1: we all double look at exactly the same So that's

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Speaker 1: a really I love that. I like that as like

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Speaker 1: a place to go. Hone your Taste is to look

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Speaker 1: at graduation.

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Speaker 2: Where love at praise hone your taste.

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Speaker 1: That's a big We're very big on that. We're very

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Speaker 1: big on that. What kind of imagery or storytelling do

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Speaker 1: you want to be a part of more.

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Speaker 2: More queer art. I feel like, still to this day,

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Speaker 2: I often feel like I don't belong in fashion, or

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Speaker 2: I'll hear some feedback from a client or someone else's

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Speaker 2: agent that I'm to this or I'm to that, and

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Speaker 2: the thing that makes makes me feel better grounded, part

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Speaker 2: of community, making a difference connected to my body, my art,

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Speaker 2: and my being is to make queer stuff, and so

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Speaker 2: my wife and I just made a queer short film.

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Speaker 2: I'm working on a book. I feel like when I

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Speaker 2: style myself, it's very inspired by drag and queer designers,

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Speaker 2: and so that's kind of how I come home to

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Speaker 2: myself and find power these days.

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Speaker 1: I like that. I can't wait to see what you

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Speaker 1: do with it. I love about what does your day

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Speaker 1: to day look like.

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Speaker 2: Right now, it's kind of all over the place. I mean,

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Speaker 2: Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Season is here, so we're doing so

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Speaker 2: much exciting promo and events for that. I shot my

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Speaker 2: images for the book in December in Loretto, Mexico with Alanamier,

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Speaker 2: which was amazing, And now it's here and we get

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Speaker 2: to see the rest of it, and we're having a

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Speaker 2: huge launch party here in New York City at the

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Speaker 2: Hard Rock as we always do. Then we have a

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Speaker 2: few days of Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Social Club for the

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Speaker 2: second year in a row in New York City, and

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Speaker 2: then at the end of the month we go to

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Speaker 2: Miami Swim Week for our Swimsuit Runway show, which is

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Speaker 2: streaming on Hulu this year. Oh my god, really exciting. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so it's a busy month.

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Speaker 1: I think I would die of me in a bathing

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Speaker 1: suit was streaming on Who.

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Speaker 2: I can't wait to say. I love it all the diversity.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Swimsuit is so good at celebrating all kinds

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Speaker 2: of women and not just for what they look like. Right,

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Speaker 2: It's not just like a modeling campaign where they have

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Speaker 2: diversity for the sake of looking at different kinds of folks.

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Speaker 2: It is so much about voice. You know. Last year

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Speaker 2: when I was in the cover, I also wrote an

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Speaker 2: essay for the print issue. The year before, I had

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Speaker 2: like the pleasure of reading about Gail King Lee ar

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Speaker 2: before Martha Stewart Kim petrously in a bloom. There's there's

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Speaker 2: so much holistically that is to be celebrated about the

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Speaker 2: people that you see, you know, on your Hulu screen

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Speaker 2: or whatever it is, through this brand. And that's why

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Speaker 2: I love it so much. That's why I've been doing

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Speaker 2: it for oh my gosh, four or five years now.

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Speaker 2: It's why I keep coming back really excited about being involved. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and then after that, I am working on my launch

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Speaker 2: for a Pride collection that I designed for Canadian retailers.

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Speaker 2: Fresh so that'll go right into Pride and I will

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Speaker 2: sleep in July.

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Speaker 1: I love it. I'm a busy girl. I was going

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Speaker 1: to ask you later, but since we started talking about it,

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Speaker 1: you were the first queer cover model for Sports Illustrated Swimsuit.

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Speaker 2: The first out lesbian.

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Speaker 1: Yes, iconic, iconic. What did that moment mean to you?

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Speaker 2: Oh? I just it meant so much personally. But nothing

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Speaker 2: that I do through work is ever like just four

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Speaker 2: or about myself, and so the moment meant so much

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Speaker 2: because it was, you know, representation for lesbians on the cover.

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Speaker 2: Before me had been Leanna Bloom had been Competrius stub

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Speaker 2: Bird and Megan Arpino had shared it as part of

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Speaker 2: the Legends cover. But to be like up there by

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Speaker 2: myself having come out through the platform right having gotten

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Speaker 2: engaged and married alongside my SI Swimsuit team was really

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Speaker 2: a beautiful full circle moment.

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Speaker 1: I see person So, yeah, it's amazing.

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Speaker 2: I was excited about that.

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Speaker 1: I can't wait to see this year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm dying to know. I know by the time

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Speaker 2: this comes out will know who is on the cover,

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Speaker 2: but I can't wait. It's such an exciting take, it

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Speaker 2: really is.

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Speaker 1: It's a fun way to celebrate women. I know it's

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Speaker 1: like maybe not everyone looks at it that way because

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Speaker 1: you know, it is a girls in bikinis, But I

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Speaker 1: really think it is such an amazing way to celebrate

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Speaker 1: women and celebrate different bodies and just be like, like,

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Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. Now that it's gotten

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Speaker 1: more inclusive, I think it's gotten so much more fun

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Speaker 1: and it really is like fun and exciting to be like,

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Speaker 1: who is it, what's going to be who's going to

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Speaker 1: be in it, what's it going to be like? And

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Speaker 1: they include influencers now and they have all different kinds

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Speaker 1: of like women, and I just think it's really I

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Speaker 1: love it.

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Speaker 2: I think that is the right take, Like what you

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Speaker 2: said about it being more fun because it's more diverse,

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Speaker 2: just like off the cuff, genuinely like express expressing how

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Speaker 2: you feel is the exact take that we need to

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Speaker 2: hear more of.

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Speaker 1: I love it. I'm all for women getting to show

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Speaker 1: themselves and show themselves however they want. I feel like

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Speaker 1: it's reductive when it's like, oh, you're not allowed to

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Speaker 1: like unless you're in a suit, it's not you're not

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Speaker 1: you know, professional or interesting or like you're not a

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Speaker 1: serious woman. It's like you can be both. You can

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Speaker 1: totally do both.

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Speaker 2: We can take my institude setting big.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of taste, what does taste mean to you in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 2: I feel like taste and discernment and the way that

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Speaker 2: we like build our lives based around that, Like, depending

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Speaker 2: on your taste, you will have your home looking a

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Speaker 2: certain way, you look at dress a certain way, you

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Speaker 2: have a kind of job you will have. This kind

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Speaker 2: of community is really really important to keep at the

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Speaker 2: forefront of our behavior, because, like you said, we live

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Speaker 2: in a world where we see so much content, we're

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Speaker 2: pumped the same messages from media outlets that we like

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Speaker 2: are in danger of becoming this homogenized people's massively right.

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Speaker 2: And the way that I guess, oh my god, we

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Speaker 2: got so heady here. The way that we can fight

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Speaker 2: that is to be in touch with our taste, in

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Speaker 2: touch with essentially like who we are on the inside

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Speaker 2: and how we express that in our lives on the outside.

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Speaker 1: You said that you look at graduation collections, which I

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Speaker 1: think is an amazing piece of advice. What are some

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Speaker 1: other ways that you hone your personal taste. Are you

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Speaker 1: a big pinterest girl? Are you big coffee table book girl,

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Speaker 1: art girl.

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Speaker 2: I am an Instagram discover page girl. Yeah, and the

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Speaker 2: second that that feels off, I'll try to like go

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Speaker 2: in and correct it based on what if I know,

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Speaker 2: I like that I'll get more of that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: But that's a lot of my discovery.

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Speaker 1: Actually, I think that. I mean, that's the realistic. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: take like some it's different for everybody.

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Speaker 2: It's really quick.

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Speaker 1: People pull from different places.

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Speaker 2: But listen, I wish I had the time to like

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Speaker 2: go to a museum, in museums, book shops, magazine shops,

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Speaker 2: like you know, there are so many.

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Speaker 1: I always want to get go to more magazine shops

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Speaker 1: because I'm like, I just feel like there's like such

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Speaker 1: an aesthetic that I'm missing. But that's not necessarily realistic

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Speaker 1: in this day and age. It's on Pinterest, it's on Instagram.

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Speaker 1: It's not like that's that's where it is. So that's

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Speaker 1: the realistic answer. What does confidence mean to you now

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Speaker 1: versus really early on in your career?

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Speaker 2: I think that now versus early in my career, confidence

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Speaker 2: actually comes a lot from defiance. Like I used to

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Speaker 2: get really confident and feel well about what I was

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Speaker 2: working on and doing when I was succeeding based on

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Speaker 2: the benchmarks that like existed. You know, oh, great, you

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Speaker 2: wrote a great article, you put this person on the cover,

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Speaker 2: you got a promotion, you look great in the Runway show,

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Speaker 2: you got this many likes on a photo. And now

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Speaker 2: my confidence comes actually a little bit from being against

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Speaker 2: the grain in those ways. And I have so many

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Speaker 2: friends of mine to thank for like shaping my worldview

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Speaker 2: in that way. Specifically, I always talk about my friend

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Speaker 2: Preciously and my friend Willie Norris on podcasts because they

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Speaker 2: have really taught me that the more you do things

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Speaker 2: your own way, the more confident you will feel. And

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Speaker 2: so I don't know, like I feel the most confident

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Speaker 2: when I wear some insane outfit with makeup that not

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Speaker 2: everybody gets to something where I'm the only one who

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Speaker 2: looks like that, and it makes me feel so mean

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Speaker 2: that I get confidence from that?

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Speaker 1: Is that your confidence advice to women?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I mean I get asked about it all the time.

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Speaker 1: I always like you are, like.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I have so much what do you say?

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Speaker 1: I kind of am with you in that, Like, I

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Speaker 1: feel like it's changed now that my career has changed,

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Speaker 1: Like now that I've gone on TV, It's changed a lot,

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Speaker 1: and I would say very similarly. I loved reassurance and

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Speaker 1: like people saying like, you look great in this photo,

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Speaker 1: you look great in this, that dress is so your color,

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Speaker 1: this and everything that used to make me feel good.

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Speaker 1: But then I got put in a platform where I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, not gonna please everybody. People have really

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Speaker 1: mean things to say. People really are dissecting what I

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Speaker 1: look like in a crazy way. And now I'm like

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Speaker 1: it Now, I'm like, I have to want. It has

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Speaker 1: to come from me. And two I'm like, I don't

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Speaker 1: give a shit. Somebody was like incessantly bullying me about

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Speaker 1: having cellulite because I did a interview show and I

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Speaker 1: was wearing like a really short dress and I do

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Speaker 1: have cellulate and I literally was like, see that you.

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Speaker 1: That would have made me cry. A few years ago.

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Speaker 1: I literally was like, I want to show you my

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Speaker 1: salulate more. I literally want to like send you a

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Speaker 1: picture of it and be like you have to look

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Speaker 1: at this. Like I'm like, fuck you, I don't know

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Speaker 1: it just like it normally would have really broken me down.

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Speaker 1: But now I'm like the more I realize that people care,

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Speaker 1: the more I'm like, you care, that I've cellulated on

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Speaker 1: my legs, Like, how embarrassing for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and listen, like just to use that example. First

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Speaker 2: of all, sorry that was happening to you, but second

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Speaker 2: of all, so cool to hear you're in this place

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Speaker 2: about it because it is actually so much cooler. You

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Speaker 2: are so much more of a it girl if you

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Speaker 2: fuck the establishment. Yeah, I'm literally like tatty a little

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Speaker 2: bit of punk about yourself. And if you you know,

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Speaker 2: I saw a Reels the other day that was like, actually,

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Speaker 2: it's really quite cheek to have a bellion in Azembig era,

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Speaker 2: you know, like counter culture is really what creates coolness,

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Speaker 2: and it's not cool to like abide by the beauty

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Speaker 2: standard that gross menset. That's not fucking cool.

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Speaker 1: I agree.

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Speaker 2: Cool is wearing the dress you want to wear and

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Speaker 2: being confident about your body and affecting other women in

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Speaker 2: a positive way with that, Like, that's fucking cool.

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Speaker 1: I agree. I would have I really would have thought

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Speaker 1: I would never get to that place, and I would

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Speaker 1: have thought always that I would have been so insecure

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Speaker 1: by people picking me apart. It has just had the

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Speaker 1: opposite I don't know why, but it's had the opposite effect.

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, now I want to wear makeup less.

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Speaker 1: Now I want to make you look at me when

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Speaker 1: you think I look really more. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: it is, but I'm like, now I want you to

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00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,720
Speaker 1: like suffer and have to look at it like, oh,

439
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,680
Speaker 1: this makes you uncomfortable and it really bothers you that much? Okay,

440
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,120
Speaker 1: I hear it, Like, I'm just like since and also

441
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 1: since when does what we look like truly matter? Like,

442
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,280
Speaker 1: I'm just like, that's what you're so concerned about in

443
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,080
Speaker 1: this world. You're like a random girl you've never met

444
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:41,320
Speaker 1: in your entire life. You're worried that she has cellulate Like,

445
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,560
Speaker 1: I'm like, where, what is your day? What is your

446
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,760
Speaker 1: day to day life? Like, I'm like, what are your issues?

447
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:47,800
Speaker 1: What are you thinking about? You're not like a deep thinker,

448
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,359
Speaker 1: if that's what's I don't ever look at another person

449
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 1: and think, oh my god, I'm so upset by her body,

450
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:54,960
Speaker 1: I need to say something. I've never had that urge.

451
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,399
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. Well, that is what changed my body

452
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,560
Speaker 2: confidence when I came out. Was looking through the female

453
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,440
Speaker 2: gaze right, Like I was observing myself through the male gaze,

454
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,880
Speaker 2: and I was assigning all of these and analyzing all

455
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 2: these like imperfections with myself. I don't like carry weight

456
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 2: in an hourglass way I was XYZ size. I didn't

457
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 2: look like very I can't even like get it out like.

458
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,119
Speaker 2: I didn't look like I had quote unquote sex appeal

459
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,640
Speaker 2: in whatever I was wearing. And once I negated that

460
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 2: because I didn't have to like live with the idea

461
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,919
Speaker 2: of being attractive to men anymore, and I thought about

462
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:32,880
Speaker 2: how I am attracted to people and what I think

463
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,239
Speaker 2: of people through my own female gaze. I never, in

464
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 2: a million years, ever, just like you said, would look

465
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,119
Speaker 2: at a woman and think, oh my god, look at

466
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,679
Speaker 2: her cellulite in that mini dress. Now I'm going, oh

467
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:48,920
Speaker 2: my god, is that vintage Pucci? Where did you get it? Oh? Cool? Right?

468
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,040
Speaker 2: Love the shoes you put with it, or whatever it's

469
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 2: I would never make a judgment on someone based on

470
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 2: what they look like, genuinely in my heart. And when

471
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,360
Speaker 2: I turn that logic around on myself, I feel really

472
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 2: safe in that few because I don't feel like other

473
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 2: women are saying that about me. I don't feel to

474
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 2: your point that you would ever think that about me.

475
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, men are stupid as hell. And we

476
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 1: should not listen to their like iro innerspective on anything,

477
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 1: let alone like the beauty standards that they like. Whatever

478
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 1: a man finds attractive comes to a price of idiocricy.

479
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 1: Don't listen to them.

480
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,199
Speaker 2: Well, like you you were saying earlier, like you know

481
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,439
Speaker 2: these people who are on the internet and don't know

482
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 2: you and are like commenting on what you look like.

483
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,920
Speaker 2: I just I always calm myself down if the trolls get,

484
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 2: you know, to be a lot by reminding myself that

485
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,160
Speaker 2: it's all projection. Like they live in a world where

486
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 2: they subscribe to what they are prescribed right, Like they

487
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,959
Speaker 2: either are quote unquote church going or they're quote unquote married,

488
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,399
Speaker 2: or parents or what have you, and they've done everything

489
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:46,360
Speaker 2: that they're supposed to do.

490
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 1: I get the worst hate from moms and grandma's. It

491
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 1: always says like number one wife, number one mom, number

492
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 1: one grandma.

493
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:55,399
Speaker 2: Always oppression, not wanting to have lived that way, but

494
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,679
Speaker 2: have been a quote unquote good girl in that context.

495
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 2: Or there's a lot of men mine or more men

496
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 2: so you know, a strong man or whatever toxic positivity,

497
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,199
Speaker 2: toxic masculinity teaches them. And then watching people who have

498
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,199
Speaker 2: bucked that and are happy and free, and it's this

499
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 2: like projection of anger that they don't even know what

500
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 2: to do with it. And it's going to come at

501
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 2: you individually, because how dare you be free enough to

502
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,239
Speaker 2: do that? I live my life every day on you know,

503
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 2: a calorie deficit, being miserable about this, not being able

504
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,120
Speaker 2: to be in touch with my body, you know, put

505
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 2: in the blank, whatever you want to put in.

506
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 1: The blank, probably financially controlled by a man.

507
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 2: It's just yeah, it's projection.

508
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:38,160
Speaker 1: Haters, yeah, haters. Okay, moving back to fashion a little bit.

509
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,439
Speaker 1: What about fashion excites you right now? Is really holding

510
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: your attention or maybe nothing does.

511
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 2: I love secondhand shopping, so that holds my attention because

512
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 2: I have to look all the time.

513
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,439
Speaker 1: I know, the searching. The searching is so real, the

514
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: real really, I'm like, I love you, but you're so vast,

515
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: so vast, there's so much.

516
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 2: So that definitely holds my attention. I think I do

517
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 2: try to tend to check like every day. Oh yeah,

518
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 2: I have like a real, real saved search that is

519
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 2: just everything that comes onto the site remotely in my size.

520
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 2: And then I'll look at eBay and go into my

521
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 2: recent searches, and you know, I was just looking for

522
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 2: something from Anna Suite because I'm working with eBay and

523
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:20,719
Speaker 2: Anna Suite on a partnership.

524
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: Vintage such so so so so such a vibe, very underrated.

525
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 2: I think that's what keeps me. Yeah, I U my attention.

526
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: I like that. Yeah it is. It's a full time job.

527
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: The real reel is a full time job.

528
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

529
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: I'm like, you guys should be paying at this one

530
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: because I've gone through three hundred and sixty three pages

531
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: today and I'm exhausted.

532
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 2: But when you find the one, I.

533
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 1: Know, then you find that one piece and then everybody's like,

534
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 1: where's it from and you're like, it's from the oh,

535
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 1: and you can't have it? And I love it and

536
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:49,199
Speaker 1: it's so special. I love it.

537
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 2: I know, I found a villain'siak a gown that I

538
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 2: wore to the devil Wors product you premiere. Oh I

539
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 2: just had to do it. Oh my god, I love

540
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 2: that god size twelve, amazing gown with a train.

541
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: Is Is it hard to find larger sizes and vintage globe.

542
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, very very very as like a symptom of clothing

543
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 2: in general wasn't as size inclusive and then the things

544
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 2: that people tend to archive and resale samples go through

545
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 2: another bottleneck of size exclusion. But that's why I like

546
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 2: the real oil and eBay because you can just search

547
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 2: by size like I would. I, you know, unless I

548
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 2: came across a vintage store, I probably would never actually

549
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 2: just like go to a vintage store to blindly shop

550
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 2: because I willing to bet there's probably nothing in terms

551
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 2: of a garment that I could like leave with my sisters.

552
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,160
Speaker 1: I asked, because my sister's starting a vintage clothing store,

553
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to clock that to her that, like, those

554
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 1: pieces are really special and rare. H.

555
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 2: And there's a really amazing vintage and resale and emerging

556
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 2: designer shop called Berries in Brooklyn that specializes in larger

557
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 2: sizes and they do an amazing job. So if I

558
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,120
Speaker 2: do shop in person, I go somewhere specialized like that,

559
00:25:58,560 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 2: I love it.

560
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 1: And I feel like that's probably something that's like only

561
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: in New York, and I feel like other places it's

562
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: probably extremely extremely difficulty. Okay, I'm gonna tell Parker, if

563
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 1: you're listening, we need to we need to clock this

564
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: for your ventage. Sure, San Francisco needs plus size vintage

565
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 1: inclusive sizing. What does growth look like to you right now?

566
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: Personally and professionally? What are you focused on?

567
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 2: I'm trying to be more creative this year, like I

568
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 2: I just spent I have spent so many years being

569
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 2: so stressed about where the next work thing comes from,

570
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 2: or who's doing what and how I get ahead or

571
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 2: if the work is ever just going to stop one day.

572
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 2: But I got married last fall and that feels really

573
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 2: grounding and beautiful and freeing in a lot of ways.

574
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 2: And I think that Haley and I, my wife and

575
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 2: I's goal for this year together was to be creative together,

576
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 2: so we're.

577
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: Working on that a lot. Yeah, I feel the exact

578
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: same way. I've had so many conversations recently being like,

579
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 1: what is my actual creat of outlet? And everyone's like, well,

580
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: you do content, and I'm like, but is it creative

581
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 1: or is it very very purposely curated into a very

582
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 1: specific audience and or paid so that it is curated

583
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 1: to fit in advertisement? And I'm like, I don't actually

584
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: think I have any creative outlet whatsoever. I think it's

585
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: all become business.

586
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 2: So what are you going to make your creative outlet?

587
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: I've been doing pottery. That's so I have been doing

588
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: pottery every Friday, every Friday morning. I've been doing pottery.

589
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. It's like real pottery. That's

590
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,159
Speaker 1: been really fun. I mean it's but even that is

591
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,439
Speaker 1: like it's very it has rules. Okay, my therapist was

592
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: telling me it's not creative enough because she was like,

593
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 1: there's so many rules. I was like, there are a

594
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: lot of rules, like there's a right way and a

595
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 1: wrong way to do it, and so she was like,

596
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: you need something that doesn't have a right way and

597
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: a wrong way to do it. And so I don't know.

598
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 1: I haven't.

599
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 2: I have not a therapist. That's no.

600
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: She's she's amazing and she's very big on like breaking

601
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: down the patriarchy and like where Like she'll be like,

602
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 1: do you know where you learned that? And then she'll

603
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 1: like tell me and I'm like, oh my god, that

604
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: is from a man, disgusting, And I'm like I didn't

605
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 1: even realize that. She'd be like was that because of

606
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 1: your father? And I'm like, oh my god, you're right.

607
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 2: Wait, I have to meet her.

608
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 1: No, she's I suggest her to everybody. I literally I

609
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: had a situationship and I was like, I think you

610
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 1: need to see my therapist. There's a lot going wrong

611
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:12,679
Speaker 1: with you. And I was like, you've got a lot

612
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: of male issues that I think she needs to explain

613
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 1: to you. Why you feel that way. I'm that were

614
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:17,919
Speaker 1: instilled in you by your dad. I was like, did

615
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: your dad cry in front of you as a child?

616
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: And he was like no, And I was like that

617
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 1: explains a lot, explains a lot about you. But yeah,

618
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: I got to figure out my creative outlet. I'm thinking,

619
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: I don't know. I was like, a great one. It

620
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: is fun, it's fine, my god, it's really really truly

621
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 1: and you can link, you put your headphones in. It

622
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: has a very the culture of the people. They're so quiet.

623
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: Everyone talks so quietly to each other. Everyone is so

624
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: calm with each other. Everyone is like the only thing

625
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: they're really serious about is like, don't touch their shit

626
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: or go in their space, which I totally respect. That's

627
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: like they're really no bullshit about that because you could

628
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: break someone's peace. But the culture around it is like,

629
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I love these fives.

630
00:28:55,040 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 2: Are you somebody who like you can do pottery and

631
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 2: and not be like judging yourself for how match bad

632
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 2: it is because I feel.

633
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: Like I judge the Yeah, every instructor I've had, they're like,

634
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: you need to relax, and I'm like, I need to go.

635
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: I need to just start over. This is terrible. I'm

636
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: really bad at just like playing with it. And like

637
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: they're like, it's okay to throw things away. Ninety percent

638
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: of the things you make you're gonna throw away. And

639
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, what did I just do for the

640
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: last hour and a half or it'll like crumble.

641
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 2: And I'm like.

642
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: And they're like, that's how you learn how to build

643
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: it up is you have to like make things that fall,

644
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: and I yeah, I struggle with that, and I'm like

645
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: I'm working on it.

646
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

647
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: I feel like I use my pongary teacher, like I'm

648
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: as a therapist. Also, I'm like, this is really upsetting me.

649
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: And he's like, you gotta you gotta let it go.

650
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: You gotta just it is what. It's just a piece whatever.

651
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: And people like I've seen people in there that work

652
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: on things for hours and hours and hours and then

653
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: they like hate the glazer, like the piece is ruined.

654
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh my god, you've been doing this

655
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: for a month. You made the most beautiful thing I've

656
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: ever seen, and they're like, whatever.

657
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 2: Wow, take it, Yeah, have it for your house. Yeah

658
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 2: you bet. It's beautiful.

659
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very it's cool, and you can kind of

660
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: like you just feel inspired by other people's creativity too,

661
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: because you like look over and you're.

662
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 2: Just whoa, look what she made.

663
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: That's amazing. It's really it's honestly changed my life. Okay,

664
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: I highly suggest, highly suggestifying a pottery studia or painting.

665
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: My therapistaid painting, because you can do whatever you want.

666
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: Do you feel like the industry has embraced your queerness

667
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: in a really real way or do you feel like

668
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: it's sometimes maybe they use it for an aesthetic or

669
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: do you feel like it's truly moved into a way

670
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: that it's true, true inclusivity.

671
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 2: I feel like it's been really genuine. You know. I

672
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 2: have great teams that have been working with for a

673
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 2: long time that help like create our world that we

674
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 2: work in, and the brands that I work with and

675
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 2: the projects that I'm on are have been I've had

676
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 2: no complaints, like really really.

677
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,239
Speaker 1: It's so wonderful to hear. That's great to hear.

678
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 2: Maybe I cannot honestly think of a negative experience.

679
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: That makes me so happy. That's wonderful to hear. What

680
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: do you hope changes in fashion over the next few years.

681
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 2: I hope that we like continue to be more inclusive,

682
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 2: as I've like always said, and I guess we'll always say,

683
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,479
Speaker 2: but I think that I mean that in terms of

684
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 2: like going back to more body diversity, but also becoming inclusive,

685
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 2: you know, across other intersections. So I just came from

686
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 2: the preview of the Megala's new costume arty of it.

687
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 2: Oh my god, there's a section it's amazing. Yeah, there's

688
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 2: a section on fat bodies. There's a section on disabled bodies.

689
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 2: There's a section on pregnancy, on gender and unconforming pregnancy.

690
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 2: There are so many, you know, avenues through which we

691
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 2: could talk about diversity, and I hope that we kind

692
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 2: of just adjust the camera back to focusing on that

693
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 2: because we've really been in an era where we're talking

694
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 2: about thinness and.

695
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: If it's had a rubber band that snapped back.

696
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like, Okay, we've had the conversation about

697
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 2: the medicine. We get it. The baseline is you do

698
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 2: what you want with your bodybsolutely full stop. Don't ever

699
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 2: let anyone else tell you otherwise. As a culture and

700
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 2: a zeitgeist and perhaps a trend, I think we can

701
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 2: stop harping on it and let the folks who want

702
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 2: to do what they want to do with their bodies

703
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 2: be and then continue to go back to pushing inclusion

704
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 2: within spheres of fashion and media and entertainment and cultures.

705
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 2: So if aren't we sick of fucking talking about who's amazemic?

706
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 2: Get over it? I agree, and the offer.

707
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: We never talk about men's bodies. I feel like it's

708
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: women's bodies day in and day out, and like it's

709
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: we I am like I have never seen a conversation

710
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: around men's bodies, Like I've never seen an article that's like,

711
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: we need to talk about the way men's bodies are changing.

712
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really we don't talk about it.

713
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: Literally, we're like dadbod's hot, cute love Like I love

714
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: a dad bod. I don't see it like you don't

715
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: talk about it.

716
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 2: I know, I would love to google that with you after,

717
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 2: I wonder what is out there on that.

718
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: It's literally like dad buds are in.

719
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 2: That's it.

720
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: You're either fait or you have a dad bod there's

721
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: like two and if you're a woman, there's ten thousand

722
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 1: ways in between and.

723
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 2: Your there's no way that there's no way possible. Yeah,

724
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 2: but yeah, I this is something I think about from

725
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 2: time to time, is how like we have an entirely

726
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 2: different experience of the Internet and thereby like the world

727
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 2: as in this example, like the kind of men you're

728
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 2: talking about, because like if you opened any of their screens,

729
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 2: nothing would look like what we look at, and vice versa,

730
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 2: and so like, I'm sure there's conversation about that. I'm

731
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 2: sure they talk about steroids and this and that and

732
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 2: the eating disorders and pressure and athleticism and you know

733
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 2: with athletes as they're gods and all this stuff that

734
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 2: like we just don't see.

735
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: That's true, and it's like they're there.

736
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 2: Everyone's having an entirely different experience. I don't know. That's

737
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 2: why we have to have like grades with each other.

738
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 2: Not me sitting here kind of having empathy for no.

739
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: No, I think, hey, it's a good person to pick

740
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: that out. I have no empathy, but I love well,

741
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: I have some empathy. I do think there's people, Yes,

742
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: of course there's men that struggle with it. But I

743
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: think in general, the Internet is literally based on what

744
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: to look like. Anybody talks about.

745
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 2: One hundred It's just anybody talk one hundred percent, And like,

746
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 2: women are subjected to it at every fucking angle, every environment.

747
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 2: You could be a Supreme Court judge and they'll talk

748
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 2: about what you you know what I mean. It's not

749
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 2: just the people who say, like, Okay, I'm gonna have

750
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 2: the vulnerability to get up and put myself in a

751
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,879
Speaker 2: bikini on the cover of a magazine. It's like people

752
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 2: who are in the justice system, or professors or directors,

753
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: and it's like, no, no, I didn't offer up. I

754
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 2: didn't put down the boundary were you are free to

755
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 2: comment on what I look like? And I mean, like,

756
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 2: that's the fucking world we live in where women can

757
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 2: never escape.

758
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: This is an obsession. It's an obsession.

759
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 2: What control tactic?

760
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, everything with men is about control, Everything

761
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: with the whole system is about control. I agree completely.

762
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 1: What is the next evolution in your career?

763
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 2: I'm writing a book, so I'm excited about that, and

764
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 2: I author. My wife and I just worked on a

765
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 2: short film, so we'll be doing more of that.

766
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think do you feel like you're being

767
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:02,919
Speaker 1: pulled behind the scenes more.

768
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 2: I like to be behind the scenes. I prefer to

769
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 2: be behind the scenes. Actually, you know, like I was

770
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 2: a fashion editor, I had my own business, a fashion brand,

771
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,919
Speaker 2: and so I feel like I get well, I guess

772
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 2: it's ebbs and flowed. At that time, I felt like

773
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 2: I got more done, I got more change made by

774
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 2: being an editor and a founder. And right now I

775
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 2: feel like I'm getting more change affected by being in

776
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,760
Speaker 2: front of the camera. But yeah, that's a good question.

777
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 2: I guess I will feel or maybe I'm coming to

778
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 2: feel like my impact will be better back behind the camera.

779
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,399
Speaker 1: One day, when a project comes to you, what makes

780
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: you say yes right now?

781
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 2: Alignment with what we're we, my teams and I are

782
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 2: trying to do overall, Like you know, we've had offers

783
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:54,879
Speaker 2: for shows that kind of just aren't like the exact fit,

784
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 2: and like, I don't know, you just feel it, like

785
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 2: you see the offer come across the desk and you go,

786
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 2: I should be more excited than I am about this. Yeah,

787
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 2: And I think that anything that I'm like trying to

788
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 2: make make sense to myself or trying to give me

789
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 2: excitement about is that's a red flag. That perhaps is

790
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 2: not the right fit. There are, of course, ways that

791
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 2: you can make it the right fit, you know, like

792
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 2: you could be an executive producer and you could have

793
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 2: say over who's in the show and what it looks

794
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 2: like and how diverse that is or what have you.

795
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 2: But I think that the things that come naturally to

796
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 2: us and fit really well within this world are you know,

797
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 2: things about fashion, inclusion, pride, feminism, mental health and everything

798
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 2: that kind of like makes me me.

799
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: What pushed you to want to write a book at

800
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: this moment, I.

801
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 2: Guess, Catharsis, I don't know. Being creative, telling a bit

802
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 2: of my story. Being in the world of fiction is fun.

803
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 2: I feel like everything's so about me, and you know,

804
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 2: when it gets that way, it can be hard because

805
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,760
Speaker 2: people have a lot of opinions and they're not always nice.

806
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 2: And I don't know, it's it feels like playing. It

807
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 2: feels like playing.

808
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 1: Oh I like that, Yeah, I like that. I feel

809
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: like I've always wanted to write a book when it's

810
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: literally never crossed my mind for one second to write

811
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: a fiction book, like I've always been like, it has

812
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: to be about my experience and I don't know why.

813
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 2: Well, you're the expert of your own experience, and that

814
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 2: certainly is like something that a lot of people do. Yeah,

815
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,280
Speaker 2: you know that it's very valuable.

816
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: Is there anything in fashion you haven't done yet that

817
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 1: you want to do? Oh, you've had many jobs.

818
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:31,439
Speaker 2: I've had so many jobs. That's such a fun question.

819
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 2: Always ever asked me that, I guess, be a creative

820
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 2: director at someone else's brand. I would really love that

821
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,720
Speaker 2: if the stars aligned and I really believed in the brand.

822
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 2: And I don't think I would start a fashion brand

823
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 2: by myself ever again, But I just I mean, I

824
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 2: don't I don't know. I never have that much stamina ever. Again.

825
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 2: I swear to god, I don't know how I did it.

826
00:37:55,200 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 2: I was just so like a drenalized by my personal

827
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 2: little mission. But you know, that was a long time.

828
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 2: I mean almost ten years ago. I guess, No, not

829
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 2: that long, but you know, a number of years ago.

830
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 2: And so, yeah, it would be a creative director somewhere.

831
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 1: Do you know where you'd want to go?

832
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 2: I love what they had done at Alexis Batar, and

833
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 2: that job was up on the market a few years ago.

834
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: Oh, that would have been cool for you.

835
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 2: I mean, the right person went there because I mean,

836
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,240
Speaker 2: Alexi's Baitar is amazing creative direction, Yeah, product and brand

837
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 2: world now, and you know the shows are fucking incredible.

838
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 2: Two seasons ago, they had a pageant for their presentation

839
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 2: that was full of trans women and I just thought, Wow,

840
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 2: this is a world that they've built that I like

841
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 2: so want to be a part of. So like somewhere

842
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 2: like that.

843
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: Do you know Michelle Ox who runs Aye. She came

844
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: on and she started two brands, and then Yes and

845
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: then did Airva, And I was like, this is so

846
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 1: perfect for you, Like he killed it and such a

847
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: good job, like bringing it back, making it cool again,

848
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 1: as if you took something not cool that faded out

849
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 1: and made it cool again. So I could like see

850
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:06,959
Speaker 1: that for you, like going in and being like, Okay,

851
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: we need to make this cool again, and we need

852
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 1: to make it fresh and relevant and just like taking

853
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 1: something that used to have an old school way of

854
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 1: thinking and giving it like new school the way she did.

855
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 2: I just thought, I know huge Michelle, love.

856
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: Her, She's and she's just like really nice.

857
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 2: I should wet her bandage dress.

858
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: And she's made it more inclusive, She's made it. She's

859
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,359
Speaker 1: just made it more fresh. And modern and like representative

860
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: of women today, and that was what they were missing.

861
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 1: And so I would love to see you like go

862
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: into a brand that just like is stuck in the

863
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 1: past and be like, we're going to make you new

864
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: school and cool and inclusive and interesting and diverse and

865
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 1: all of that. I feel like that's fun to watch.

866
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: I don't know who it would be, but I'm excited

867
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: for that. I know I like this. I'll send it

868
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: to you. If I see something, I'm gonna be like,

869
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:53,359
Speaker 1: please refresh this brand, bring it back. What is something

870
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 1: you want to speak into existence? I make everybody speak

871
00:39:55,360 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: something into existence on the podcast, I.

872
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 2: I'm looking at my publicist being like, what should I say?

873
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 2: What do I want to speak into existence? I want

874
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 2: to make hmm, you know what I'm going to say?

875
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 2: Something not work, doesn't have to Yeah, I am going

876
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 2: to rest this summer. I'm gonna take time off.

877
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: I like that.

878
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,240
Speaker 2: Is that such a pathetic no being to speak into existence?

879
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 2: I feel like it's so hard to take time off.

880
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 2: And when we live in this like freelance economy, it's

881
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 2: like you constantly feel like you can't afford to say

882
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 2: no to something, and like.

883
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 1: I never say, no, I never take time off. I

884
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 1: never have a weekend. I never, I just don't never

885
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: could you? So never?

886
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:45,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess I'll speak into existence taking some genuine

887
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 2: time off and also like that begets like being more

888
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 2: in touch with where you are and and and that

889
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 2: makes the next things that you do more aligned and better.

890
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 2: I agree, like making decisions from a point of exhaustion

891
00:40:58,120 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 2: is not the best idea.

892
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: And I feel like when you're in because fashion at

893
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,399
Speaker 1: this point is about content creation, like that you can't

894
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:07,839
Speaker 1: have one without the other. And I feel like when

895
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: you do content creation or online and have a platform,

896
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 1: it's like more more more more more more more more

897
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 1: more and more and more, like you're never doing enough

898
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 1: and so you have to like and then I don't know,

899
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 1: I feel like you lose your ability to think for yourself.

900
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: I feel like there's so many downsides to not taking

901
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 1: a break. But I'm I'm horrible about that, like absolutely terrible.

902
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: When your life feels really good and everything is aligned,

903
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: what does that look like for you?

904
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 2: You know, I was joking with Haley. I guess I

905
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 2: wasn't joking actually, but there's something happening right now that

906
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 2: I felt last when I first was in Sports Illustrated Swimsuit,

907
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 2: I first started dating Haley, and before that, when I

908
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 2: first started my business, where the universe just feels like

909
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 2: it's winking at me all the time, Like I just

910
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 2: feel like things are clicking really well and gelling, and

911
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 2: it's like weird things like I was, I was I

912
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 2: you know, I was in my head about something and

913
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 2: I said, you know, I should I should ask Karan

914
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:17,280
Speaker 2: Venice about this, who was the host on my season

915
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 2: of The Traders Canada and this formidable actress and even

916
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 2: more amazing person. And literally as I thought that, she

917
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 2: messaged me. And you know, we don't message all the time,

918
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 2: and so something as little as that just I'm like

919
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 2: feel like I'm in a dream world. It also is

920
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 2: like you know, the Chicken and the egg, right, It's like,

921
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 2: is the universe winking at me? Or if I just

922
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 2: believe that it is, will I keep me?

923
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: I think it is? No, I think it is. I

924
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 1: feel like there's moments that I've had where I'm like,

925
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 1: it's the same way I'm like, oh, I really want

926
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: that top, and then it like I'm walking and I

927
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 1: see it and it's on sale and I'm like, how

928
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: do I just swear I just made that happen, that

929
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: just appeared in front of me, and I'm like, oh,

930
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: I miss my best friend. And then she I see

931
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: you're walking across the street and I'm like, oh my man,

932
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: what are you doing over here? And it's like you're

933
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 1: just because you're where you're supposed to be. So when

934
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 1: you when you ask for it, or you're like, oh,

935
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 1: I really hope I get this, and then you get

936
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: an email and you're like, oh my god. I was

937
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: having that conversation last night about how I wanted to

938
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 1: work with this brand and they just emailed me this morning.

939
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: I feel like that's when you're like where you're supposed

940
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 1: to be, and it's hard to be where you're supposed

941
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: to because it's hard to do everything you're supposed to

942
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 1: do all the time, like you I was doing. Like

943
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 1: I was in a situation where I was like, I

944
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: feel like I'm not where I'm supposed to be right now,

945
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: and I feel like I shouldn't be here, and i

946
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 1: feel like I'm not making the best decisions for myself,

947
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 1: and I'm like I will be punished for this, like

948
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 1: by the universe. Like I'm like they like when you

949
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 1: don't do what you know you're supposed to do, like

950
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 1: knowing you're supposed to be taking time off and you don't,

951
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 1: like you crash out and then something fails and you're like,

952
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: it would have been a success if I had done

953
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: exactly what I knew I was supposed to do, and

954
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: I put myself in the situation knowing I needed a

955
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: moment and I didn't take it, and I got like punh, Yeah,

956
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 1: you know I'm subscribing to this. I believe that whole heart.

957
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 2: I don't mean that.

958
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 1: When you're aligned, I'll be like I want this person

959
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: on my podcast or publicistling on me. Two days later,

960
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: my boom, I'm in where I'm supposed to be.

961
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 2: I'm doing the right things and like to to your counterpoint,

962
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 2: like going against the grain of yourself just like creates

963
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 2: friction and in life.

964
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 1: Big time majorly. Okay, last question, Okay, who do you

965
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 1: think is the ultimately girl and why does she inspire you?

966
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 2: Oh my god, well today you what a fun conversation

967
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 2: we got to have. I feel like, yeah, I feel

968
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 2: I feel so it's so amazing to connect with people

969
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 2: who are doing amazing things and are propping other women

970
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 2: up and you know have arrived at the same like

971
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 2: feelings and thoughts that you've arrived at by doing like

972
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 2: inner work. Okay, there's some commonality. It's working. It's so

973
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:46,839
Speaker 2: true amongst us all.

974
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 1: So I'm paying my therapist.

975
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know I should. I should definitely get

976
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 2: the name of her from you.

977
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,280
Speaker 1: Fantastic. No, she's got me digging deep.

978
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:01,760
Speaker 2: Who else listen? I love like artists like Shy Girl

979
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 2: and Charlie XCX. Yes, Julia Fox's mother. I just think

980
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 2: that the readiness that she has to speak so like

981
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 2: passionately about her opinions that are not that are like

982
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 2: counter to the norm but are like rooted in feminism

983
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 2: is got a reverence like it's been so needed. I

984
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 2: love her Nae Wrap, Yes, love Rihanna always. Yeah. I

985
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 2: mean there's so many.

986
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,359
Speaker 1: I need to get Rihana on here. I'm like, you're

987
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 1: the girl people say the most. Yeah, I get so

988
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: Hailey Bieber and and I get Rihanna. Those are like

989
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: the two that I get. Yeah, but I'm like, I

990
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 1: need to discuss this with them.

991
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:52,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's just like the super celebrity level. Yeah,

992
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 2: there's like so many amazing it. Folks like beyond that that,

993
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 2: I'm like really obsessed with the look too. Yeah. I

994
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 2: mentioned Precious and Willy earlier, fran Dorato, who is the

995
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 2: editor in chief at them. Most recently Cherry James, a

996
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 2: drag queen, drag performer friend of mine. My wife like,

997
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,359
Speaker 2: I don't know Peggy.

998
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 1: To my wife, I'm like, you want to say your wife.

999
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: I've interviewed, like, I've had men a few times, not

1000
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: very rarely have I interviewed them, and I'm like, do

1001
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: you have a girlfriend or a wife's?

1002
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1003
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:32,800
Speaker 1: Please don't say another woman? Please?

1004
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 2: Okay?

1005
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 1: Do you want to shout out your socials?

1006
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 2: Sure? My socials are at lc chan because Lauren Chan

1007
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 2: everything is taken. Yeah, and they mostly hang out on

1008
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 2: Instagram because I'm a millennial.

1009
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 1: Love and I am at Bailey t Taylor and we

1010
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: are at a Girl. The series Thank you learned so much.

1011
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: I'm so honored to have had you. I love when

1012
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 1: I get to talk to friends. It makes me so happy.

1013
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:55,720
Speaker 1: And we will be back next week with another Girl

1014
00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: Girl