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Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants huts. Let's go.

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Speaker 1: Let's go, Giants, get the Giants, moubble, give me some job.

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Speaker 1: Part of the Giants Podcast Network.

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Speaker 2: Let's welcome to another edition of the Giants Little Podcast,

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Speaker 2: brought to you by Citizens the official bank of the Giants,

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Speaker 2: johnsh Milk, joined by the one and only Art Stapleton.

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Speaker 3: Art.

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Speaker 1: How are you? Man?

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Speaker 3: What's up? John? How are you?

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Speaker 1: I'm doing? Good man?

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Speaker 2: First of all, before we start, tell all the folks

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Speaker 2: where they can find You're written content and all your

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Speaker 2: podcast content.

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Speaker 3: North Jersey dot Com USA today. Also my podcast All

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Speaker 3: In with Art Stapleton. You can find that on all

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Speaker 3: your podcast platforms and on YouTube. We are a video

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Speaker 3: audio combination, just like you guys here at the Giants Toddle.

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Speaker 2: All right, So, Art, I think out of all the

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Speaker 2: Beat reporters, you were probably the one that was kind

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Speaker 2: of on this from the beginning that you did not

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Speaker 2: think John Marrow would make any major changes after the year.

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Speaker 2: What made you think that, and just what was your

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Speaker 2: reaction to everything that was said once that decision was

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Speaker 2: made earlier this week.

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Speaker 3: You know, I certainly wasn't looking to take a victory

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Speaker 3: lap John in terms of where the things are. But

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Speaker 3: you know, I think sometimes when emotions get involved, we

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Speaker 3: kind of go down a certain road that you know,

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Speaker 3: Mike distort things a little bit. And you know, I

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Speaker 3: joked earlier this week, even after John Marra made the

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Speaker 3: decision public that Joe Shane and Brian d Able will

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Speaker 3: be returning, that the NFL has kind of become that

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Speaker 3: Real Housewives chapter, you know, it's Real Housewives of three

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Speaker 3: four five Park Avenue in New York City, because you

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Speaker 3: just can't predict what's going to happen. And the hardest

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Speaker 3: thing in this league is to leave emotion out of

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Speaker 3: it and just treat the situation for what it is now.

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Speaker 3: You know, I thought along that when Joe Shane and

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Speaker 3: Brian Dable were hired in twenty twenty two, there there

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Speaker 3: was an edict from ownership that we are going to

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Speaker 3: let you build this thing. We're gonna let you break

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Speaker 3: it down and build it back up. And then when

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty two happened, there was this emotional high in

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Speaker 3: this franchise and look, everybody felt it. You had lost

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Speaker 3: for so long, it had been a decade of despair,

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Speaker 3: which is what I coined it. And the reality is

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Speaker 3: is that, you know, maybe it distorted a little bit

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Speaker 3: of what the reality was because they did so well

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Speaker 3: in year one and then now the timeline was skewed

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Speaker 3: a little bit, and I think what you had to

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Speaker 3: reset and they made mistakes and they looked at things.

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Speaker 3: But it's a first year general manager, a first year

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Speaker 3: head coach. And I truly believe when John Maras says

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Speaker 3: he wants to be patient, I think he does want

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Speaker 3: to be patient. I think he knows that it has

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Speaker 3: turned the organization. I mean, John, let's be honest. You're

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Speaker 3: there on there. We've been there lockstep every day. You

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Speaker 3: and I not dable in Shane, and we've been through

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Speaker 3: it all. We've watched it all. History is a precursor

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Speaker 3: and the Giants for years and years and years, we're

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Speaker 3: all about continuity and refusal of change. And it's flipped.

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Speaker 3: It flipped the script. And I think the hardest thing

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Speaker 3: for John Mahra to do was to be patient. But

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Speaker 3: I truly believed that they were gonna give these guys

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Speaker 3: another year. I think they were gonna be honest with

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Speaker 3: where they're at and and just go with it. And

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Speaker 3: that's kind of why I felt the way I did.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to have the how we got here

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Speaker 2: conversation too, because I think that is complicated and more

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Speaker 2: nuanced than a lot of people want to give a

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Speaker 2: credit for. So I think the worst thing that could

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Speaker 2: have happened at the end of the day here are

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Speaker 2: was split in the baby And look, we've seen that

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Speaker 2: before here when they decided to like go Tom Goughlin,

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Speaker 2: keep Jery Rees right Lecholopatrmer, keep Dave Gettlman, And it

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Speaker 2: creates problems when you're hiring one guy but not the other.

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Speaker 2: There might not be continuity there, you know who's reporting

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Speaker 2: to who. We're seeing that in Jacksonville where they've changed

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Speaker 2: coaches but kept the general general manager forever.

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Speaker 1: Right, we've seen the issues with that.

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Speaker 2: So I think the way I've kind of talked about

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Speaker 2: I'm curious what your opinion on it is, is that

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Speaker 2: would have been the worst case scenario. Right, So then

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Speaker 2: you're down to, all right, we either do the full

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Speaker 2: sweep or you keep both. And I just think we

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Speaker 2: both know that when Dave Gettlman was in the front office,

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Speaker 2: he's had some good players that he drafted, but the

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Speaker 2: continuity and the way the building was run up there,

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Speaker 2: I don't think was something that ownership generally thought was

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Speaker 2: well put together. Really. I think there was some conflict

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Speaker 2: and things of that nature, right, and there's been reporting

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Speaker 2: on that, and I think the way Joe Shane has

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Speaker 2: really just completely rebuilt the second floor of the building

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Speaker 2: on that side of the building with bringing in eighty

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Speaker 2: percent of a new scouting staff right give or take

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Speaker 2: new people around him in the front office. John Marry

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Speaker 2: used word process in the press release the Giants put

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Speaker 2: out when they announced that they would be retaining both

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Speaker 2: people and even though maybe the results with some of

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Speaker 2: the draft picks haven't been in exactly what you would like.

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Speaker 2: And as Joe Shane, I believe it was your question

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Speaker 2: that he answered during his November press conference that look, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I've made mistakes over the past two years.

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Speaker 1: Everything hasn't been perfect.

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Speaker 2: That even though sometimes that the results aren't perfect, if

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Speaker 2: the process is correct, the results are going to get better.

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Speaker 2: And I think the results start to get better this year.

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Speaker 2: And I just think the idea to John Maren Steve

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Speaker 2: Tish to completely once again upending everything that's been built

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Speaker 2: on the second floor of this building on the football

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Speaker 2: side over the past two to three years is just

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Speaker 2: something that would be counter productive for the long term

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Speaker 2: success of the organization, even though it might make people

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Speaker 2: happy in the short term.

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Speaker 3: Totally agree, and I think you laid it out well,

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Speaker 3: and I do think you know, look, you sit in

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Speaker 3: that building every day. We sit in there during you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm in there four times a week, you know, for

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Speaker 3: the season, and then in the offseason, you know, we

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Speaker 3: have our time in there for OTAs and draft. But

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Speaker 3: the reality is that I think a missing component here

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Speaker 3: that ownership has to take into consideration is the full

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Speaker 3: business aspect of these decisions, and how when you change

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Speaker 3: your general manager and your coach, you are now essentially

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Speaker 3: changing a huge part of the workforce in your building,

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Speaker 3: and it affects your business. It affects departments that fans

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Speaker 3: and quite frankly, media and anyone else don't even think

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Speaker 3: about in terms of a functional business. I mean, you're

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Speaker 3: talking about a Fortune five hundred company here with the

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Speaker 3: New York Giants and with every franchise in the NFL.

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Speaker 3: And the reality is is that when you make changes

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Speaker 3: like that, you are going to have to change everything

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Speaker 3: and the health of an organization put the football aside

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Speaker 3: the health of a business for a decade to change

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Speaker 3: every two years and then three years, it's devastating to

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Speaker 3: your business. And I think people will look at the

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Speaker 3: bottom line and say, sure, the Giants are still worth

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Speaker 3: you know whatever, it is three billion, four billion the

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Speaker 3: overall organization with the stadium and everything else. But the

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Speaker 3: reality is that John Mara and Steve Tish and their

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Speaker 3: families need to be honest about where the business is

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Speaker 3: and where the football is and how that meshes. And

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Speaker 3: I think the best decision for them right now was

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Speaker 3: to give it some more time. You broke it down.

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Speaker 3: Now it's time to rebuild. And now it's time. You've

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Speaker 3: broken everything down. Now it's time to build. And if

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Speaker 3: they can do that, then they'll get to a better

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Speaker 3: place in a year. Is that a playoff mandate? Is

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Speaker 3: there wins? Losses?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 3: The schedule is so tough. What are we gonna do?

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Speaker 3: It's January of twenty twenty five. Let's see what you

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Speaker 3: can do. You now have an opportunity to build this

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Speaker 3: thing and to take another step forward. You know. The

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Speaker 3: one thing John that I laugh at is that everyone

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Speaker 3: always talks about, well, all you guys in the media.

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Speaker 3: All you guys like to go back and still blame

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Speaker 3: Reese and McAdoo and Shermer and Gettlemen and Judge and

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Speaker 3: all those decisions. It's not putting blame on them. This

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Speaker 3: is now Joe Shane and Brian Dables's product. But the

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Speaker 3: reality is is that if you want to look back

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Speaker 3: and you don't think that the product that they inherited

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Speaker 3: was what happened during those missteps and that they weren't

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Speaker 3: coming in at a different spot. That was the whole

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Speaker 3: idea of you take one step forward by bringing in

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Speaker 3: new people, but organizationally and from a football perspective, you

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Speaker 3: immediately take another two steps back because now you're digging

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Speaker 3: out of not only their hole, but now the hole

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Speaker 3: that you've created by completely changing everything again. And so,

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Speaker 3: like I said, I asked John Mara that in his

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Speaker 3: scrum in the field House on Monday, the idea of

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Speaker 3: you talked about the pain of having to start over,

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Speaker 3: but you also talked about your belief in Joe Shane

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Speaker 3: and Brian Dabele. What's stronger. Because if the if you're

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Speaker 3: making the decision because you just don't want to start over,

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Speaker 3: that's a recipe for failure. Are you making the decision

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Speaker 3: because you believe in Joe Shane and Brian Dabele and

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Speaker 3: you're acknowledging the fact that starting over would be painful.

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Speaker 3: I think that's a different story. And I truly believe

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Speaker 3: that John Marras still believes in Joe Shane and Brian

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Speaker 3: dabel Uh and that's where we're at right now going

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Speaker 3: into season number four. For them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not continuity for continuity's sake, right, because you know,

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Speaker 2: if you're you know the the expression that I like

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Speaker 2: is that, yeah, continue to going in the same direction

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Speaker 2: is great, but if you started going in the wrong direction,

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Speaker 2: keep going in that direction takes you further away from

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Speaker 2: your goal, right, It's not a good thing. If you're

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Speaker 2: going in the wrong direction, they keep going that way.

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Speaker 2: So they brought those two guys in the revamped the organization.

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Speaker 2: I think ownership is liked the way they've done that,

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Speaker 2: even though it hasn't shown up with the results yet,

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Speaker 2: And I think they believe to your point that they're

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Speaker 2: on the right path and the results will come because

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Speaker 2: the process that they've seen these guys go through and

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Speaker 2: just operating the entire football organization.

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Speaker 1: I think is something that they like. And it's funny

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Speaker 1: you brought this up.

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Speaker 2: And I've been thinking a lot about this because I

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Speaker 2: remember we had Joe Shane on at the combine. I

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Speaker 2: don't remember if it was before his first season or

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Speaker 2: if it was after the successful season, and the question

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Speaker 2: I asked him Art was, you know, you're coming into

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Speaker 2: in a really tough spot because the team's record was terrible.

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Speaker 2: I mean I went back and they never had more

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Speaker 2: than six wins in the five years prior to Brian

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Speaker 2: Dable and Joe Shane showing up. It was either six

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Speaker 2: or few wins, and they only had six once in

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Speaker 2: those five years. But at the same time, they had

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Speaker 2: zero cap space, which is really a best at wa.

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Speaker 1: To be in.

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Speaker 2: So while there were good players on the roster, they

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Speaker 2: were not in a financial position to keep all those players.

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Speaker 2: And that first year was not even a rebuild year.

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Speaker 2: That was the preface to a tear down year because

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Speaker 2: you couldn't even really tear down that first year because

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Speaker 2: the salary cap situation made that almost impossible. Right, So

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Speaker 2: you're tearing down and you're not even starting your build

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Speaker 2: until a year number two. Then you have that year

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Speaker 2: that no one predicted, no one in the media predicted.

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Speaker 2: And I think if you gave truth serum to people

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Speaker 2: in the building, no one here in the building would

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Speaker 2: have expected either. In that first year those guys are here.

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Speaker 2: There was a reason that John aren Steve brought those

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Speaker 2: two guys in to rebuild the organization because they didn't

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Speaker 2: think they were in a good place. If they thought

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Speaker 2: they were on the verge of a playoff win, they

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Speaker 2: might not have made those changes, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: So I think that kind of surprised everybody. And I

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Speaker 2: go back, you're a Nick fan. Two to the COVID year,

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Speaker 2: the Nick said, right when Julius Randall had his monster year,

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Speaker 2: they get the four seed, they lose in the first

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Speaker 2: round to the Hawks, and they think, all right, well,

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Speaker 2: let's try to build this now, and we're gonna bring

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Speaker 2: it Evan forty A. We're gonna bring in these veterans

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Speaker 2: to try to push it a little bit. And it

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Speaker 2: didn't work. It failed, and then they had to reset

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Speaker 2: the following year again. And even though it's a year

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Speaker 2: that I don't think any Nick fan would give back,

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Speaker 2: I don't think Giant fans want to give back. Twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty two, But in a lot of ways it did

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Speaker 2: I think divert them from the initial path Joe Shane

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Speaker 2: had them on a little bit, And in the end,

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Speaker 2: I think it did delay things a bit because at

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Speaker 2: the end of that year, I think we could tell

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Speaker 2: by the way they structured the Daniel Jones contract they

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Speaker 2: weren't all in this guy's definitely answer like we're rocking

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Speaker 2: and rolling for the next six years. They purposely had

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Speaker 2: that negotiation, and I think it's telling that it went

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Speaker 2: down to like the final five minutes of the deadline,

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Speaker 2: that there was probably a lot of back and forth

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Speaker 2: on exactly how much how many years you have dedicated

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Speaker 2: with guaranteed money, how much dead money you're gonna have

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Speaker 2: after two years, all that type of stuff that you

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Speaker 2: go into those conversations with right that they needed it

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Speaker 2: out there, But no sane person can go back and

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Speaker 2: logically say, after a playoff win season where you're getting

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Speaker 2: you win a playoff game for the first time since

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Speaker 2: twenty eleven, that you can tear down and just I

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Speaker 2: find just let Daniel Jones walk len him it for agency,

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Speaker 2: It's fine, don't worry about it. Taquan Eyes, a running back,

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Speaker 2: let him go who cares. That's not something you can do, Like,

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Speaker 2: no one would have accepted that at that point, So

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Speaker 2: you're trying to split the baby a little bit. And

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Speaker 2: I think that was the start of it. And even

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Speaker 2: without that year, and I go back to my point

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Speaker 2: on the cap, the team they took over was a

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Speaker 2: bad football team, but it had some good young players

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Speaker 2: on it, and it was gonna be tough navigating, well,

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Speaker 2: this is a tear down, but at the same time,

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Speaker 2: we want to keep players ABC and deep is then

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Speaker 2: that takes up cap space, right, and that limits the

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Speaker 2: tear an one opportunities. So I do think it was

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Speaker 2: kind of an in between situation in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 2: with the way the roster was set up, with the cap,

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Speaker 2: with where the team was performance wise, and just trying

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Speaker 2: and then throwing that first year of success and trying

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Speaker 2: to balance all that in terms of how you build,

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Speaker 2: who you retain, who you don't. How many step backs

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Speaker 2: do you take to take a step forward? I think,

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Speaker 2: and I asked that question to Joe when he first

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Speaker 2: got here, and I think that was always going to

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Speaker 2: be a very tough thing to navigate, even with older

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Speaker 2: veterans like Leonard Williams and a Dori Jackson, right, Leonard

285
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Speaker 2: Williams was still a good player, but with the way

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Speaker 2: the team was, it didn't make sense to keep them.

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Speaker 1: But you get worse by letting him go.

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Speaker 2: So there are all these, you know, drawbacks and advantages

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Speaker 2: you could take by all of these decisions, and it

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Speaker 2: was always going to be a tough puzzle to put together,

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Speaker 2: especially after that first successful season.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, And I remember being in the press

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Speaker 3: box in Philadelphia that year, that in twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 3: and I you know, you'd see, you know, we see

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Speaker 3: it a little less now because you know, the front

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Speaker 3: office personnel, you know, they're trying to not be in

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Speaker 3: a situation where they're walking through with the media in

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Speaker 3: there and with the reporters, and you know, nobody's looking

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Speaker 3: to take victory laps or hold press conferences in the

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Speaker 3: back of the press room every day, you know. But

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Speaker 3: the reality is that I remember it was right around

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Speaker 3: the trade deadline and asking Joe Shane. You know, everybody thought,

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Speaker 3: remember John, everybody thought the Giants should go out and

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Speaker 3: get a wide receiver that year. Come on, you gotta

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Speaker 3: make a move, make a move. You're in position, and

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Speaker 3: this was twenty twenty two when we weren't sure where

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Speaker 3: the way it was gonna work out, but they had

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Speaker 3: to win in London and they came back and beat

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Speaker 3: the Ravens and they were in a little bit of

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Speaker 3: a slide right around that time, and Joe Shane held

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Speaker 3: firm said I'm not giving away draft assets. The big

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Speaker 3: name on the board was Jerry Judy. I played for

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Speaker 3: Brian Dable and Alabama. You know, we gotta go get

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Speaker 3: him to throw a second round pick to Denver and

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Speaker 3: get Jerry Judy here and you know, make a move.

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Speaker 3: And then there was such I wouldn't say an uproar

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Speaker 3: because that's probably too strong, but the idea of what

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Speaker 3: is Joe Shane doing? Why aren't they This team is

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Speaker 3: in position to compete for a playoff spot. Why aren't

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Speaker 3: they making moves? And their big move was claiming Isaiah

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Speaker 3: Hodgens from the Bills the day after to the trade deadline,

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Speaker 3: and everybody was like, oh, they did nothing. What is

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Speaker 3: Shane doing? And the reality is is that, you know,

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Speaker 3: two plus years later, Joe Shane is answering questions about

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Speaker 3: is he going to make moves to keep his job

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Speaker 3: next year? And if I'm John mare and Steve Tish.

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Speaker 3: I look at that first year and I say, you

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Speaker 3: know what, I had a young general manager who probably

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Speaker 3: was feeling the pressure a little bit from his coaching staff. Look,

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Speaker 3: we're here, you know, we can we make a couple moves.

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Speaker 3: We can compete with Dallas, we can compete with the Eagles.

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Speaker 3: We could win a playoff game or two. Let get

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Speaker 3: us some pieces here. Let's let's see what we can do.

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Speaker 3: And Shane didn't do that. He actually held back. I

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Speaker 3: fast forward to this off season. Had Joe Shane wanted

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Speaker 3: to move off of his plan, you know, we saw

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Speaker 3: John Marra wanted take one Barkley here. Joe Shane knew

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Speaker 3: what he had to do to keep Sakeuon Barkley. It

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Speaker 3: may have gone against what he believed the Giants should

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Speaker 3: do to rebuild, but he knew if he wanted, if

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Speaker 3: he thought his job was in jeopardy, all he had

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Speaker 3: to do was go to Saquon Barklay's agent, Ed Barry.

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Speaker 3: We heard the conversations on hard knocks. All he had

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Speaker 3: to do was say, hey, we'll give you fourteen a year,

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Speaker 3: fourteen a year sequans here, let's be done and then

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Speaker 3: John Merraw walks away a happy man, and Joe Shane

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Speaker 3: looks at it and goes, you know what, It's not

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Speaker 3: really what I wanted to do, but I made the

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Speaker 3: owner happy, so let's move forward.

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Speaker 2: And also, by the way, the team's gonna be better

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Speaker 2: in the short term, so that would have been the

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Speaker 2: easy decision to make.

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Speaker 3: And that's the other thing too, is that when they

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Speaker 3: made these decisions in the off season. You know, I've

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Speaker 3: said this to somebody, it's kind of I've developed it

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Speaker 3: as my line, like when you're in a mess, it's

357
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Speaker 3: gonna get a little messy to clean it up. And

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Speaker 3: the reality is that that's where they're at. This was

359
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Speaker 3: going to be a mess whether it was year one,

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Speaker 3: year two, or year three. Now you've got to clear

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Speaker 3: it up. And it's been ye it's been hard. With

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Speaker 3: the Daniel Jones thing and how that played out in

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Speaker 3: the regular season and Saquon and Xavier McKinney making the

364
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Speaker 3: All Pro team and being Pro Bowls. You're going to

365
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Speaker 3: take hits the way you expected to. But if you

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Speaker 3: have a conviction, you need to stick with that, and

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Speaker 3: I don't think they stuck with that after year one,

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Speaker 3: and I think they're doing that now, and that goes

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Speaker 3: back to again, they're hoping that they've set themselves up

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Speaker 3: now to be able to get a quarterback in here,

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Speaker 3: maybe get two quarterbacks in here, and follow through and say,

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Speaker 3: you know what, everybody talking about playoffs next year and wins.

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Speaker 3: I truly believe that what John Marras said the other

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Speaker 3: day was true. Mood. Tell me about what the mood

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Speaker 3: is with this franchise after this year, and then I'll

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Speaker 3: tell you if everybody's coming back or for making changes.

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Speaker 3: Because if the mood is that they're moving in the

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Speaker 3: right direction, they have a quarterback, they feel like these

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Speaker 3: young are starting together, they have another very good draft,

380
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Speaker 3: which is what they had last year. Then you know what,

381
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Speaker 3: if you win six or seven games and you don't

382
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Speaker 3: make the playoffs, but you feel like you're heading in

383
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Speaker 3: the right direction. I don't know necessarily if John Maher's

384
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Speaker 3: making changes, then if Steve Tish is saying, you know what, John,

385
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Speaker 3: we have to make changes. But that's where you're at.

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Speaker 3: So I, like I said, it's a mess right now.

387
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Speaker 3: It's going to be messy to clean it up. But

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Speaker 3: after that happens, you hope that you're building towards successful

389
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Speaker 3: seasons down the road.

390
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Speaker 2: Yeah, look or I agree, And this will be my

391
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Speaker 2: last comments used question about what happened before, and then

392
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Speaker 2: we'll kind of look ahead here a little bit. And

393
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Speaker 2: I apologize with my long retort in between your last

394
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Speaker 2: two as toes. I think it's complicated, right, and I

395
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Speaker 2: think what I kind of started thinking about, do you?

396
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Speaker 2: And I brought this up on a big blue kickoff

397
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Speaker 2: earlier in the week. Let's say the Giants decided, look,

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Speaker 2: we were going to retain Saquon, We're going to retain

399
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Speaker 2: Zavid McKinney, we were gonna even let's say they figure

400
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Speaker 2: out a way to retain Evan Ingram. You go back

401
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Speaker 2: that ball, right, and all those guys get kept, and

402
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,760
Speaker 2: you're here, and you're sitting here. Not one of us

403
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:07,639
Speaker 2: would argue that Giants would better today. They would have

404
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,399
Speaker 2: won more game, That would be a better football team.

405
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Speaker 2: Would they be, truly though, aren't be any closer to

406
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Speaker 2: winning its Super Bowl?

407
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Speaker 3: No? No, they wouldn't.

408
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:16,760
Speaker 1: No, you wouldn't be.

409
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Speaker 2: And on top of that, you wouldn't have your forty

410
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,040
Speaker 2: million in cap space, you wouldn't have your one hundred

411
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Speaker 2: million in cap space. Next year, you wouldn't be picking

412
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Speaker 2: as high in the draft because your record would be better, right,

413
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Speaker 2: And I think the record would be better. But I think,

414
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Speaker 2: and this goes to your point in terms of Joe

415
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Speaker 2: Shane having a way he wants to go about things,

416
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Speaker 2: the path to becoming a super Bowl team might even

417
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Speaker 2: be even cloudier because while you would have better players,

418
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:47,159
Speaker 2: you still wouldn't have the flexibility and the ability to

419
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Speaker 2: get the key pieces that you need to take those

420
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,280
Speaker 2: next step down the road. And again, I think this

421
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,640
Speaker 2: is the more difficult path to go down. It requires

422
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Speaker 2: more discipline. And that's might give me my next question

423
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Speaker 2: for you, But I don't think to say, well, look

424
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Speaker 2: at all these good players they like, Oh you know,

425
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Speaker 2: why would you do that?

426
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Speaker 1: Well?

427
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Speaker 2: To have a little foresight, sometimes you have to make

428
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Speaker 2: tough decisions now that hurt you now to set you

429
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Speaker 2: up for more success later. And I think that's kind

430
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Speaker 2: of what the thought process is here.

431
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Speaker 3: I agree. And you know what, it is a leap

432
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Speaker 3: of faith. It is a searching for benefit of the

433
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 3: doubt when the organization hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt,

434
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Speaker 3: sure from it's consumers, from the media, from anyone who's

435
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,439
Speaker 3: trying to analyze where this team is.

436
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 2: Oh, by the way, or I don't expect fans to

437
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,119
Speaker 2: give them that either. I don't think John Maher expect

438
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:35,640
Speaker 2: the fans to give them that either, to be honest

439
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,680
Speaker 2: with you, because in the end, they're the ones buying

440
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,120
Speaker 2: the tickets and watching bad football.

441
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:40,400
Speaker 1: So I get where they're coming from.

442
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:42,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they're spending their hard earned money. I say,

443
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,199
Speaker 3: you know what, if you have season tickets, if you

444
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,239
Speaker 3: have PSLs, the only thing I could say about the

445
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,200
Speaker 3: one guarantee is if the Giants are bad again next year,

446
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 3: guess what, You've got a lot of great teams coming

447
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,119
Speaker 3: into MetLife Stadium to play them, So you can sell

448
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 3: your tickets on the secondary market and maybe make up

449
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 3: some of the cash that you're losing and spending out

450
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 3: on those fans. But look, the reality is that John,

451
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,119
Speaker 3: all of this is all with the pretense of we

452
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 3: don't know if Joe Shane is right. I don't know

453
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,400
Speaker 3: if they're correct as to how to build a football team.

454
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 1: That oh, there are no guarantee of results here, no

455
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 1: matter what path you know.

456
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:21,879
Speaker 3: Not at all. I like the fact that they have

457
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 3: a plan. It doesn't necessarily mean the plan is right,

458
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 3: but as opposed to the previous regimes who didn't have

459
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,680
Speaker 3: a plan who you know, we all saw how that

460
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 3: thing fell apart in twenty twenty one before Shane and

461
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 3: Dabel got here. I mean, there's a reason why so

462
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,879
Speaker 3: much was made about them having a shared vision and

463
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 3: being in lockstep, and this past Monday being the first

464
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 3: time that they didn't have a joint press conference. And

465
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 3: I don't believe that was a statement about Shannon Dabel

466
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 3: and their relationship. I just think Monday was a crazy

467
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,119
Speaker 3: day for them and they realize, you know what, but

468
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,680
Speaker 3: we got a lot of work to do, and we're

469
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,199
Speaker 3: not going to spend time and sit up here in

470
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 3: a joint press conference, you know, trying to sell you

471
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 3: a vision that no one is seeing right now. And

472
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 3: I think that's kind of where they're at right now,

473
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 3: and like you said, moving forward now to what's next.

474
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 3: I always love the analogy and the cliche, the idea

475
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 3: of you've got the rear view mirror and you've got

476
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 3: the wind shield. Why is the windshield always bigger? The

477
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 3: windshield's always bigger because you're supposed to see the bigger

478
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,360
Speaker 3: picture in front of you and stop worrying about the

479
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 3: smaller mirror, the rearview mirror that's behind you. But you

480
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 3: don't walk into your car, shut the door and rip

481
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 3: the rear view mirror off. There's a reason why there's

482
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 3: a rearview mirror, and I think they need to have

483
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 3: that perspective moving forward. It's not a blame game. It's

484
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 3: just reality of where they were, and they distorted reality

485
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 3: because of what they were able to do in twenty

486
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 3: twenty two. And now you know what happened in twenty

487
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,959
Speaker 3: twenty three. And the last thing I'll say is everybody says, well,

488
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 3: why didn't they just get rid of Daniel Jones and

489
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 3: pick a quarterback? They were now picking twenty sixth. Because

490
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 3: of the season they had, they were probably expecting to

491
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 3: have a top five pick with Bryce Young, CJ. Stroud

492
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 3: and Anthony Richardson who came on at the end and

493
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,640
Speaker 3: became the top three picks in that draft. You were

494
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 3: not getting anywhere near that. And if Joe Shane decided,

495
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 3: you know what, we're getting rid of Daniel Jones on

496
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 3: a playoff year. We're going to trade up from twenty

497
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 3: six to get into the top five to get one

498
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 3: of those quarterbacks. If you're walking into John Mara's office

499
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 3: and trying to sell him on that, if you're trying

500
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,439
Speaker 3: to sell this fan base on that at the time,

501
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 3: there's no way that's floating. I mean, and it's possible

502
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 3: that if Joe Shane held true to his beliefs, he

503
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 3: would have been out of a job. I mean, that's

504
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,439
Speaker 3: the reality here, is that we see what goes on

505
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 3: around the end, and what's happening in New England, and

506
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 3: what happened in Las Vegas, and what's continuing to happen

507
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 3: in Jacksonville year after year after year. Somewhere along the line,

508
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 3: you have to get off the carousel. It doesn't mean

509
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,439
Speaker 3: that you leave the building and you say I'm never

510
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 3: getting on a carousel again, but you may look at

511
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 3: it and say, you know what, we've got to do,

512
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 3: what we've got to do to see if we can

513
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 3: capture something here, and if you can't do it, there's

514
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 3: always next year. Fans don't want to hear that, the

515
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 3: media doesn't want to hear that, but it's worth the

516
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 3: risk in their eyes to say, you know what we

517
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 3: believe in the process here, we are going to see

518
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 3: it through. Uh And it's not an unlimit It's not

519
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 3: a limitless process. The reality is that next year they're

520
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 3: going to reassess. But I think that's why all of

521
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 3: this played into this decision that came on Monday.

522
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: Huddle up, get in here. If you're lined up here,

523
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: you got to go over the middle with at the

524
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:54,439
Speaker 1: score great.

525
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 3: How do we make that happen?

526
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, But does it makes sense of your money?

527
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 3: With Citizens Official Bank of Eli.

528
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 2: Manning Johnson, the podcast is brought to you by Citizens,

529
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 2: the official bank of the Giants. From game day celebrations

530
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 2: to your everyday financial needs, Big Blue fans can get

531
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Speaker 2: the most out of every moment with Citizens. Learn more

532
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: at Citizens bank dot com slash Giants. And that goes

533
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 2: back to your Joe Shane point right. I think he's

534
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 2: shown a lot of discipline in the way he's operated

535
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 2: over the past couple of years. I think I remember

536
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 2: in one of the Hard Knocks episodes, you referred to

537
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 2: himself as stubborn, and I think you know, in terms

538
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 2: of how he wants to negotiate, what his beliefs are

539
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 2: in terms of position value, what he wants to pay

540
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 2: certain players, right, And I think we even saw that

541
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 2: in the draft last year, where look the easy solution

542
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,719
Speaker 2: there are were just to pick a quarterback at Sex right,

543
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 2: like you know, Daniel, he goes off acl that's the

544
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 2: easy thing I picked.

545
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: Just pick the best guy.

546
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 2: But he's like, no, I think Malik Neighbors is a

547
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 2: much better player. And as I'm much higher grade than

548
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 2: these other quarterbacks, I'm not gonna do anything. I'm gonna

549
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 2: do the tough thing. And now I think moving forward,

550
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 2: And I wasn't sure if you asked this question to

551
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 2: Joe Shane or somebody else else, but he asked about

552
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 2: trying to again push the accelerator and win this year now,

553
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 2: because obviously the results of the last year have him

554
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 2: been good. And obviously John marrav pointed out that the

555
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:16,360
Speaker 2: patience is wearing thin for the results, and he said, look, guys, look,

556
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 2: I was brought here to do what's in the best

557
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 2: long term interest of the Giants, and I think if

558
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 2: he shows that same type of discipline moving forward, you're

559
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 2: not going to run into a situation where you're you know,

560
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 2: backloading contracts, your training future picks to move up for

561
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 2: a player that maybe you don't believe is the best

562
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,199
Speaker 2: player in the draft. Because he's a quarterback, and I

563
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 2: think that discipline is really going to get put to

564
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 2: the test. And I think based on what we've seen,

565
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 2: I think you have to have some confidence that Joe

566
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 2: Shane will stick to his principles in this situation.

567
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: And there's not going to be reaches.

568
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 2: There's not going to be reckless salary cat management, because

569
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 2: that's just something that I don't think he's shown that

570
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 2: he's willing to do in his first three years here.

571
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think whatever carries through here is where

572
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 3: Joe Shane, you know, he's building. This was his clean

573
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 3: you know, he had to come in and show that

574
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 3: he can be a general manager in this league. And

575
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,479
Speaker 3: the reality is that there have been ups and downs.

576
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 3: I mean, look, hard knocks off season may never exist

577
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:15,239
Speaker 3: again because the Giants open themselves up to criticism that

578
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 3: organizations will not do in the NFL. And I will

579
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 3: make the argument that what we saw the Giants go

580
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 3: through in their off season, that's probably the tip of

581
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 3: the iceberg compared to what teams go through. How the

582
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 3: sausage is made in the NFL. And to see how

583
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 3: that was received around the league and portrayed and constantly

584
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 3: going back to what was on camera. I mean, there

585
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 3: is no arguing the idea of this happened. These things happened.

586
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 3: Now were they taken out of context? Perhaps that we

587
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 3: don't see all of the footage and all of the video.

588
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 3: But the reality is is that Joe Shane wants to

589
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 3: work in this league for a very long time. I

590
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 3: have no reason to think others. So if he compromises

591
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 3: where he wants things to be just for the sake

592
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 3: of trying to squeeze out a few more wins this year,

593
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 3: and then those wins don't come, well, guess what then

594
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 3: Joe Shane's gonna be out of a job. And who

595
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 3: knows if he gets another GM job anywhere in the league,

596
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 3: because now he's been put out front and center and

597
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 3: we all see how he operates. And you know, the

598
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 3: funny thing is you mentioned John the negotiations. Think about that,

599
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 3: Shane was a first year general manager coming off of

600
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 3: a playoff year, and he had to negotiate contracts with

601
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 3: the four best players on the roster, and this was

602
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 3: his first negotiating period for the current team that he's

603
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 3: gonna have as a general manager. It was Sakwa Barkley,

604
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 3: Daniel Jones, Andrew Thomas, and oh, by the way, Dexter Lawrence.

605
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 3: So he signed Andrew Thomas and Dexter Lawrence to extensions

606
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 3: that continue to look like great deals because yes, I

607
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 3: know Andrew's injury and dex are under the year injury injured,

608
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 3: but those contracts are going to continue to look good.

609
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 3: So all the focus was on those contracts, the Saquon

610
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 3: Barkley and Daniel Jones. The reality is is nobody's bringing

611
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 3: up the contracts for Andrew Thomas and Dan and Dexter Lawrence,

612
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 3: which are good contracts, and obviously they have to stay

613
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 3: healthy and they have to win. So that's the way

614
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 3: it is. But you know, look, I think we keep

615
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 3: saying Joe Shane, Jo'shane. I do believe that they've built

616
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 3: around him. I think Joe's done a good job. And

617
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 3: that is the stark difference between this general manager and

618
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 3: Dave Gettleman. Is that a lot of times it was

619
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 3: Dave Gettleman and the field, But now I do believe

620
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 3: it is Joe Shane and Brandon Brown and Chris Rosetti

621
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 3: and Dennis Hickey and Tim McDonald and all of their scouts.

622
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 3: They feel like they're they feel like they have a

623
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 3: process in place, and I think that had gone by

624
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 3: the wayside for the two previous general managers that were here.

625
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 3: So when John Marras says, I'm here every day, I

626
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 3: see the structure we have, that's what he's talking about.

627
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 3: He's not talking about hits and missus in the draft.

628
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 3: He's not talking.

629
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 2: About, by the way, are even the best general manager

630
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 2: has hits or missus in the draft?

631
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: It happens to ever.

632
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 3: Look at Less Snead and in the Rams, and now,

633
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 3: you know, Less Snead, obviously you win a Super Bowl,

634
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 3: it was f them picks. Then now the Rams are

635
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 3: built because they've made incredible picks with the two defensive

636
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 3: guys with Verse, you know, and all they they've done.

637
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 3: But Snead's first couple of years were really bad. I mean,

638
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 3: it was brutal what they had to do. And then

639
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 3: they went off and they pulled off the big trade

640
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 3: with Matthew Matthew Stafford. And you know, for years it

641
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 3: was are they ever gonna win anything with Aaron Donald.

642
00:31:55,760 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 3: So it's just an interesting scenario that I think front office, John,

643
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 3: when has this timeline been so accelerated to the point

644
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 3: where guys are getting fired and they're restarting things one

645
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 3: or two years into the length of the rookie contracts

646
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 3: that you inherited or that you brought in. It's really like,

647
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 3: I don't know where it started, but it's really incredible

648
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 3: to think that the lack of patience. And again, I

649
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 3: get it sometimes you know guys can't do the job.

650
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 3: You watch it, you see it. But it's to think

651
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 3: that a front office can have two drafts or three

652
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:42,479
Speaker 3: drafts and their first draft class is on year four

653
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 3: of their rookie contracts and you're already saying that's it, busts,

654
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 3: they can't do it, They're out. We got to bring

655
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 3: new people in. I don't know how that's sustainable over

656
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 3: the course of a certain number of years. And you know,

657
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 3: maybe it is, but I personally don't see how it

658
00:32:59,160 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 3: can be sustained.

659
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 2: Now, I'm with you. And look, that's not to say

660
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,239
Speaker 2: that mistakes haven't been made. That haven't been missteps. Joe

661
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 2: Shane admitted that himself and his multiple press conferences. We're

662
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 2: not trying to make that case, but we're just trying

663
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 2: to put everything into context. All right, let let's talk

664
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 2: about next year. Let's kind of work chronologically. Do you

665
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 2: would you expect or what are your thoughts to put

666
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 2: that potential changes on the coaching staff, and I will

667
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 2: include even Brian Dable potentially calling plays next year or not.

668
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 2: I'm assuming we're not going to get that answer till August,

669
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 2: because you know we didn't get that the last two

670
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 2: years either. But your thoughts on what if anything might

671
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 2: happen with this coaching staff over the next couple of weeks.

672
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 3: You know, look, everybody took what John Marras said about

673
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 3: the defense and tired of watching teams go up and

674
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 3: down the field on the Giants this year as a

675
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 3: shot at Shane Bowen as defensive coordinator. I mean, look,

676
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 3: you brought in Shane Bowen. We knew it was going

677
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 3: to be a stark contrast and what you had in

678
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 3: Wake Martindale. You know, you had the most aggressive defense

679
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 3: that you could possibly have in the NFL. And then

680
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 3: you you know, even if Bowen was aggressive, it was

681
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 3: nowhere near what you were aggressive the year before. I think,

682
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know necessarily if they're looking to say, well,

683
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 3: Shane Bowen is going to be fired and we need

684
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 3: to bring in a whole new defense, because I don't

685
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 3: know necessarily if that's a great thing for this coaching

686
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 3: staff and for the players that are here. But you know,

687
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 3: Mike Grabel is a hot coaching candidate by the time

688
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 3: this ahirs. Who knows Mike Grabel might be the coach

689
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 3: in New England or somewhere else. You know, Shane Bone

690
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 3: is his guy. So it wouldn't surprise me in the

691
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 3: least if Mike Grabel made a call to the Giants

692
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 3: and said, hey, do we have permission to interview Shane

693
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 3: Bowen for our DC. And in that situation, maybe that's

694
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 3: when you say, you know what, maybe it's best for

695
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 3: Shane to go. Maybe it's best for us to kind

696
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 3: of restructure and see how this is. But there's no

697
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 3: solution right now that's out there that I think you

698
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 3: can say, Well, it has to be this defensive coordinator

699
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 3: that they bring in and it'll change everything. I think

700
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 3: they have to, you know, admit and acknowledge the fact

701
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 3: that as much as Joe Shane said they drafted for

702
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 3: the player and not necessarily for the system, there are

703
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 3: players on this d defense specifically that were drafted for

704
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 3: the Wink Martindale system. That maybe had a hard time

705
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 3: adjusting to the Shane Bones system. Tay Banks is one

706
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 3: of those guys that you know, you wanted him to

707
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 3: be aggressive and a press man guy, and now this

708
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 3: year he didn't play well. I'm not saying that's the

709
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 3: excuse as to why he didn't have a great year,

710
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 3: but I think that you have to embrace that a

711
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 3: little bit more and realize and acknowledge, you know what,

712
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 3: maybe we leaned a little bit too much on Wink

713
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 3: Martindale when he was here in drafting the players, and

714
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 3: you know that is an issue for the coaching staff.

715
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 3: As far as Dables play calling. You know, look, I

716
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 3: think he probably can put together a tape of you know,

717
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 3: thirty I'll limit it to thirty plays that should have

718
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 3: been made and we're not made in key games this year.

719
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 3: And you know, we all go back to the flea

720
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,800
Speaker 3: flicker in Germany, but that was up and down every

721
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 3: week you had three or four plays. Now you can

722
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 3: make the argument that you don't have the personnel to

723
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 3: make those plays. So why is the play caller in

724
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 3: this case, Brian d Ables still calling those plays? You know,

725
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 3: that's something to examine. What happens with Mike Kafka. Is

726
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 3: Mike Kafka gone. We know he's he's interviewing for head

727
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 3: coaching jobs. Will he move for a lateral move? Will

728
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 3: he stay here? What happens then? Does Sha Tierney take

729
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,439
Speaker 3: over as offensive coordinator? Did they bring someone everyone's talking about,

730
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 3: Davis Webb. I don't know if that's a move to

731
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 3: make here, But the bottom line is, I think this

732
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,439
Speaker 3: coaching staff needs to get together and needs to kind

733
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 3: of reinvent a little bit of the way they do

734
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 3: things and put more emphasis on week to week changes

735
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 3: rather than just saying, you know, what's gonna come together.

736
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 3: I think defensively they were stuck on that a little bit. So,

737
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know. I think it's a wait

738
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 3: and see right now. I think you you let let

739
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 3: the dust settle over the next week or so and

740
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 3: see which guys want to go elsewhere. You know there

741
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 3: will be we saw last year. You know, there were

742
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 3: coaches who supposedly reportedly wanted to get out of here

743
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 3: because of Brian Dable and they didn't like the way

744
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,240
Speaker 3: things were. But I know from talking to some coaches

745
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 3: they wanted better opportunities. You know, there was a coach

746
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 3: you know that wanted to leave, you know, the tight

747
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 3: Ends coach. You know, he ended up going to the

748
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 3: Chargers because he grew up in Jim Harborough's system, or

749
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 3: at least John Harbaugh and wanted to you know, be

750
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 3: with Greg Roman again. You know that that kind of thing.

751
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 3: You know. I think we're still going to see how

752
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 3: this happens. I don't think it's good for Brian Able

753
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,479
Speaker 3: to completely overhaul yet again. But you got to bring

754
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 3: the best coaches in here. And if you can get

755
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 3: better coaches and you can get a better plan and

756
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 3: help your players, then you need to do it, and

757
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 3: you need to do it. You need to do it

758
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 3: fast because you can't just boot another season after this.

759
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 3: And I think that they have to be honest with

760
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 3: where they're at right now.

761
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: All right, how do you think they approached a quarterback situation?

762
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 3: Your art?

763
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 2: I'm of the throw as many darted the board as possible,

764
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 2: veteran rookie. Yes, yes, yes to all everything. How do

765
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 2: you think they're going to approach it?

766
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,439
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think that'll be it. I mean, and look,

767
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 3: Tommy DeVito is the only player that has a potential

768
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 3: of being back. You know, he's an exclusive rights free agent.

769
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 3: You know, people don't hear that often, but the reality

770
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 3: is they're going to pick up the exclusive rights free

771
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,720
Speaker 3: agent at minimum contract. If they don't or if Tommy

772
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 3: doesn't sign the exclusive rights free agent, he can't play

773
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,399
Speaker 3: in the NFL this year. So the reality is when

774
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 3: Joe Shane says Tommy's the only one under contract, he's

775
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,359
Speaker 3: going to be under contract after that. You know, look,

776
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 3: we're gonna see how free agency plays out. I think

777
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,240
Speaker 3: they signed someone. I don't think they put big money

778
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 3: into it. Maybe there's a trade to be had if

779
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,320
Speaker 3: a guy can come in, like a Russell Wilson situation

780
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 3: last year, where you know, he was pennies to sign.

781
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 3: You know, I remember asking Joe Shane, why did you

782
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 3: guys talk to Russell Wilson? He said, well, why wouldn't

783
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 3: you You can get up that potential, backup as a

784
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 3: Super Bowl champ at all, why wouldn't you do that?

785
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 3: So maybe they'll explore that opportunity. I still think that

786
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 3: they need to draft somebody that is going to bring

787
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 3: future promise to this organization. Now that may not mean

788
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,879
Speaker 3: next year he's starting right off the bat, but I think,

789
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 3: like you said.

790
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 2: Does that mean third overall necessarily to you or a

791
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:21,800
Speaker 2: trade up or could that be a guy at the

792
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 2: top of the second round back into the first of

793
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 2: you trade up?

794
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think I think either or I

795
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 3: think you know, the reality is that if if I

796
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 3: love Shdor Sanders or cam Ward and I have a

797
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 3: chance to get one of those two or you know,

798
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 3: I end up writing today. I know this is posting

799
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 3: on Friday.

800
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 2: But not I think we moved up. I think it's

801
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 2: gould be Thursday afternoon now, so you should be okay.

802
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 3: So so we're posting, and you know, the Orange Bowl

803
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 3: tonight with Drew Aller going against Notre Dame. You know,

804
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 3: talking to some of the you know, the analysts that

805
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 3: you and I both respect, you know who do great jobs.

806
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 3: You know, Dame Brugler, Jordan Reid from ESPN. You know,

807
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 3: they talked to me about Aler a month ago. Now,

808
00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,879
Speaker 3: Aller ended up saying he's coming back to Penn State.

809
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 3: But you know, if he has a big game against

810
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 3: Notre Dame and ends up winning a national championship for

811
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 3: Penn State in a week and a half, you know,

812
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 3: maybe he reconsiders. If he makes the national championship, he

813
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 3: has until the twenty fourth, which is four days after

814
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,839
Speaker 3: the National championship. Now, I'm not saying that Alo would

815
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,919
Speaker 3: be the Giants guy, but another quarterback to consider might

816
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 3: change the way the top three picks play out. You

817
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 3: know I mentioned throwing darts. Everyone's talking about Jackson Dart

818
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 3: at ole Miss. You know they want to say, is

819
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 3: he a guy Jalen Milroe? You know? Look, all I

820
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 3: know is that the biggest takeaway from Hard Knocks to

821
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 3: me should have been watching Brian Dable with those quarterbacks,

822
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 3: knowing that when Joe Shane came back to them and said,

823
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 3: would you trade up for Jaden Daniels and Dable said

824
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 3: absolutely I would, and we know they like Drake May

825
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 3: as well. You have to take that confidence and the

826
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:58,919
Speaker 3: fact that in process, again the guys that they liked,

827
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,399
Speaker 3: and they knew they like them, they couldn't get them,

828
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 3: but look how they're performing. You have to take that

829
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 3: and say, you know what, I like Dables process to

830
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 3: pick these quarterbacks, and I will lean on him. And

831
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 3: if he says I wouldn't draft these guys in that spot,

832
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 3: don't draft them, or yeah, give me a shot, I

833
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 3: can turn that guy into a starter. That we meet here.

834
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 3: I'm leaning on it. That's why Dable's here. If you

835
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 3: cannot rely on your head coach in that situation, then

836
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 3: you should have just moved on on Monday. You need

837
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,919
Speaker 3: to trust that these guys are gonna do the right

838
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 3: thing for the quarterback, for this for this organization. So

839
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 3: I think you're gonna have a free agent. I think

840
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 3: you'll have a rookie, and then you move on and

841
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 3: you see, Let's see how things play out in you know,

842
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,720
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five. Do you have a Kurt Warner Eli

843
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 3: Manning scenario in twenty four when you had them move

844
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,359
Speaker 3: to that. I'm not sure. I don't know if that's

845
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 3: the way it's gonna be. But I've seen plenty of examples.

846
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 3: Look in Minnesota this year, Look what happened at Atlanta,

847
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 3: you know, And they're positives and negatives from both of

848
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 3: those scenarios as how it played out. But I think

849
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 3: the Giants will be in a situation where they're gonna

850
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 3: have to again make some hard decisions and you know,

851
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 3: and then live with the consequences.

852
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:19,800
Speaker 1: If you want to know how to manage two minutes

853
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: of crunch time football, I'm your man. But if you're

854
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,839
Speaker 1: wondering about a long term financial plan, you should talk

855
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 1: to Citizens. Hey, I can also talk long care. I'd

856
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 1: like to learn about Annolia routine. Yes, I knew I

857
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: could help make sense of your money with Citizens.

858
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 2: Johnsonville podcast brought to you by Citizens Official Bank of

859
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 2: the Giants. Citizens will donate seven hundred and fifty dollars

860
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 2: of the Giants Foundation for each scoring drive during the

861
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four season. Learn more at Citizens bank dot

862
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Speaker 2: com slash Giants two. More on free agency are before

863
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 2: we let you go. I appreciate all the time. This

864
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 2: has been fun and hopefully we've we provided some context

865
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 2: everything that's going on here for the fans out there.

866
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 1: The Giants own free agents. Let's go there. First.

867
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 2: We got a couple guys on both sides of the

868
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 2: ball that were starters, Greg Van Roten, Jason in Pinnock,

869
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 2: two of the major guys Darius Slayton another that gets

870
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 2: significant playing time that are free agents. Your thoughts on

871
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 2: what the Giants approach of those three guys might be.

872
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know necessarily if Greg Van Roten

873
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 3: all of a sudden is going to be looking for

874
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 3: a monster deal. You know, back in the summer when

875
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 3: he signed here, he talked about how important it was

876
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 3: for him and his wife or the young family to

877
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:23,439
Speaker 3: be close to Long Island where he grew up, where

878
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 3: she was from, the idea that you know, they like

879
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 3: their family network here. So I would have no problem

880
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,919
Speaker 3: bringing Greg Van Broughton back on a fair contract. I'm

881
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 3: not breaking the bank for Greg Van Roten to come

882
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 3: back here, and I don't think he would expect to

883
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 3: do that. But he gave you flexibility up front. I

884
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 3: would would not count on him as being your lock,

885
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,280
Speaker 3: you know, starter at right guard or even at center,

886
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 3: but he gives you that flexibility. As far as Darius

887
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 3: Slayton goes, you know, look, I think there's tremendous value

888
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 3: there in terms of where he has been on that contract.

889
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 3: I think think you know they made the right call

890
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:03,879
Speaker 3: by playing him this year. He was a better wide

891
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 3: receiver than Jalen Hyatt was. Now, granted you win three games,

892
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 3: kind of wish you play I kind of wish they

893
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 3: played Highatt more to see if he could come out

894
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 3: of that shell, if you could pull something out of Hyatt,

895
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 3: because now you go into a situation where I don't

896
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:21,919
Speaker 3: know if they're going to sign Darius Slayton. I would

897
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:23,839
Speaker 3: sit down, I talk to him, see what he wants

898
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 3: to do. I get the sense that he wants to

899
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 3: kind of explore other options and see where he's at

900
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 3: and then which is what he did a couple of

901
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 3: years ago and ended up coming back to the Giants anyway,

902
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 3: when everybody insisted that when Joe Shane forced him to

903
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 3: take a pay cut, there's no way he's coming back

904
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 3: to the Giants, and ended up he ended up coming back.

905
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,280
Speaker 3: And that was really the deal that cost them Julian

906
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 3: Love because Julian Love and Darius Slayton had the same

907
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 3: offer on the table, and when Darius took it, when

908
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,879
Speaker 3: Julian Love called back and said to Joe Shane, hey,

909
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 3: I got this deal on the table. You know what,

910
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 3: you guys man, they had already given it to slay

911
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 3: so they couldn't bring Julian Love back. Maybe had they

912
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 3: done that differently, maybe we'd be talking about safety a

913
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 3: little differently for them. But the other one would be

914
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 3: Jason Pinnock. It's very interesting to see the value of Pinnock.

915
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:22,320
Speaker 3: If I'm the Giants, I'm maybe looking for another another

916
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,799
Speaker 3: option there to pair with Tyler Nuben and you still

917
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 3: have Dane Belton on the roster. You know, I like Pinnock.

918
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 3: I like him as a player. I think they've got

919
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 3: a lot out of him since they claimed him from

920
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 3: the Jets. But Pinnock may want a little bit bigger

921
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 3: deal than what I think the Giants would would offer him. Uh.

922
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 3: So I'd look there and maybe maybe I can, you know,

923
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 3: look at my structure of my defense, what it looks like,

924
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 3: and can I find another player for the same economical

925
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 3: price that maybe fits better with Tyler Nuben and what

926
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 3: I want to do defensively at safety. So right now,

927
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 3: I'd say Grin greg Gren will be back. I'd be

928
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 3: surprised if Slayton is back.

929
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 2: Uh.

930
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 3: And you know Pinnock, I'm not really sure what his

931
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 3: market will be. So that's kind of where where i'd stand.

932
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 3: With those three guys.

933
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 2: I should throw Aziz Ojewire into the next He would

934
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 2: be the fourth guy. I think that I think is

935
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 2: probably maybe the most interesting conversation of the four because

936
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 2: when he plays, he's productive.

937
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, no doubt. I mean, if you can get disease

938
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 3: on a one year deal to come back and be

939
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 3: that third guy, with Burns and Thibodeau, I think, you

940
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 3: know that would intrigue me to have him back. You know,

941
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,879
Speaker 3: you never have enough pass rushers. We all know that

942
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,879
Speaker 3: in this organization. But if his ease gets a big

943
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 3: money deal, I don't know necessarily if I'd race to

944
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 3: go do that. I'd almost rather draft somebody, bring him in,

945
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 3: maybe develop behind Thibodeau and Burns, because you know, Thibodeau,

946
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 3: You've have the fifty year option question this spring that

947
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 3: you're gonna have to answer and see where that ends up.

948
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 3: The other one that I think is important on a

949
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 3: guy who is a free agent, and I don't know

950
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 3: if you know him going down this road, but Amir

951
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 3: Smith Marsette came in, and I think they found a

952
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 3: specialist here. I mean, probably the best specialist they've had

953
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 3: since Dwayne Harris. Reminds me a little bit of a

954
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 3: Dominic kicks in in terms of, you know, believes that

955
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 3: he can be a factor as like that fourth wide receiver.

956
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 3: So I'd like to see ice ism come back here

957
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 3: because I think he brought some juice as a returner

958
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 3: and I'm not even talking about the you know, the

959
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 3: kickoff return for one hundred yards. I think he kind

960
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 3: of represents something. I don't think he's gonna break the bank,

961
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,439
Speaker 3: but I'd want to bring a guy like that back.

962
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 3: He seemed to really mesh personality wise. He brought some

963
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 3: juice into the locker room. And again everybody looks at

964
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 3: it and says, you won three games, what's the difference.

965
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 3: But I think I think he's a player that they found,

966
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,879
Speaker 3: you know, through kind of an alternative route to pick

967
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 3: him up at the way they did mid season. So

968
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:00,399
Speaker 3: he's another guy that I would look to bring back

969
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 3: and really, you know, want to get that done before

970
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 3: free agency and said, we want to give you a

971
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 3: shot at wide receiver, but we love you as a

972
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 3: as a specialist. You know, come come back here, give

973
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 3: you a two to three year deal. Maybe we give

974
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 3: you some security your home in New Jersey. So he's

975
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 3: another guy that I would mention as far as a

976
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 3: guy who is free, but you know, maybe not so

977
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 3: much free if you make that move.

978
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 2: All right, final question art in terms of the rest

979
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 2: of the free agent pie, right, the money you have

980
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 2: to spend, Joe Shane said, all have over forty million

981
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 2: dollars to spend, and to me, I think when we've

982
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 2: seen this team go out there and spend, you know,

983
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:42,280
Speaker 2: moderate contracts on players.

984
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 1: I think they've worked out for the most part.

985
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 2: I think that's what you saw the Bills do a

986
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,359
Speaker 2: lot when Joe Shane was there with Brandon Bean right,

987
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 2: Jermaine a luminor good value contract John Runyon Junior. I

988
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 2: think you got a pretty happy with the value of

989
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 2: that contract. Go back two years. The Sean Robinson contract,

990
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 2: I think ended up being a pretty good value right

991
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 2: with with with what they spent on him GVR. For

992
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 2: the cost of that contract, you get a guy that

993
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 2: was a solid starter for you for like sixteen games

994
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:04,800
Speaker 2: that played multiple spots.

995
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 1: That's a win.

996
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 2: And I think given where this team is, they have

997
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 2: some star power, right the Dexters, the Brian Burns', the

998
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 2: Andrew Thomas is the leak neighbors. I think the way

999
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 2: they'll go through this is to try to even out

1000
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 2: this roster a little bit, fill a lot of holes

1001
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 2: with some good solid veterans that you can get dependable

1002
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 2: play from, to fill some of these gaps, to just

1003
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 2: clean up some of the problems that you've had on

1004
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 2: this roster over the past couple of years. And I

1005
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 2: think that's probably gonna be the best use of your money,

1006
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 2: unlike last year when such a large chunk went to

1007
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 2: Brian Burns, which, by the way, I think Burns has

1008
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 2: been great. I think that ended up working out okay

1009
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 2: as well. But I don't feel like we're gonna get

1010
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 2: that big splash this offseason. I think it's the pie

1011
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 2: is gonna get spread out a little bit deeper to

1012
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 2: multiple guys.

1013
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's kind of their approach. I think,

1014
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 3: you know, Shane mentioned back in year one the idea

1015
00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 3: of don't shop hungry, you know, And I think the

1016
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 3: job did that back in twenty sixteen. And I think

1017
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 3: if you get Tom Kofflin in the room, he's probably

1018
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 3: still angry that they splurged on the defense a year

1019
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:12,840
Speaker 3: before when we knew the defense was really the reason

1020
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 3: that that twenty fifteen just kind of went in the tank.

1021
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean, I think the one price point,

1022
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 3: obviously we mentioned quarterback. I think they'll look for a quarterback.

1023
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 3: I don't think it'll be a high price quarterback in

1024
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 3: free agency. But the other one, there's an interior offensive

1025
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 3: lineman in Kansas City that a lot of Giants fans

1026
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 3: wanted a couple of years ago in the draft and

1027
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 3: he slipped and slipped and slipped and slipped because he

1028
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 3: had you know, blood clots and his lungs and you

1029
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 3: know who I'm talking about, the reality is that now

1030
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 3: he's a free agent, I believe this year. So he's

1031
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 3: somebody that I might make a play for. If I'm

1032
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,839
Speaker 3: going to give some good money. That's where I'm giving

1033
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:55,280
Speaker 3: the money.

1034
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 1: That's gonna be a lot of money, and it is.

1035
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 3: But I'm giving it on off defensive line or I'm

1036
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 3: doing defensive line anywhere else, and maybe if there's a

1037
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 3: corner on the market. I did not look on the

1038
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 3: market for what the corners were this year yet. But

1039
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 3: other than that, I like your you know, your idea.

1040
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 3: The idea is that, look, I'm not looking to just

1041
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 3: you know, but get fifteen free agents at minimal contracts.

1042
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,280
Speaker 3: You know, the illumin Or contract was a solid contract.

1043
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 3: Runyon was a solid contract. But now you have those

1044
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 3: guys coming back. Maybe I'm looking at is there a

1045
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 3: center out there? I mean, what are their feelings on

1046
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 3: John Michael Schmid's going into year three? Is he definitely

1047
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 3: the starter? What are they doing you know at right guard?

1048
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 3: I think that's also a spot, you know, and you

1049
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 3: got to get some players next to Dexter Lawrence. You know,

1050
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 3: Nacho played pretty well this year or was it least solid?

1051
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,799
Speaker 3: Wasn't an impact player, but he's there. You know, he's

1052
00:51:56,840 --> 00:52:00,120
Speaker 3: a solid guy to have in a rotation. But you know,

1053
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 3: Elijah Chapman, you love what you got out of an

1054
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 3: undrafted rookie, but let's be honest, they can really use

1055
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 3: an impact player next to Des. I think Ashawn Robinson

1056
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,319
Speaker 3: was that down the stretch of the previous year. I

1057
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 3: think you need to find that player to pair with

1058
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 3: Dexter moving forward and say, you know what, you are

1059
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 3: not going to double decks with the guys we have

1060
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 3: at edge and then we have decks on inside. If

1061
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 3: you're going to run away from decks and you know,

1062
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 3: I think it was Burns or somebody said about using

1063
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 3: decks as a crutch. It's a positive crutch and it's

1064
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 3: a negative crutch. When you lose them, it's a crutch,

1065
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 3: but also when you have them there, it's a little

1066
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 3: bit of a crutch. Don't just say that Dexter is

1067
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 3: going to dominate everything, because it's not fair to him.

1068
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:47,760
Speaker 3: You want to take advantage of him and use him

1069
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 3: to be able to break everything off defensively in a

1070
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 3: positive way, not a negative way. So that's kind of

1071
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 3: where I'm looking at for free agency. I think you've

1072
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,479
Speaker 3: got a lot of young players here that it's time

1073
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 3: to kind of as Tom Coffin would say, you know,

1074
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 3: it's it's move on, it's time to step up here.

1075
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 3: So a lot of the guys who got flowers this year,

1076
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 3: as far as being promising rookies in year two, these

1077
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 3: six or seven guys have to be the guys that

1078
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 3: are forming your core here, and if you're looking to

1079
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 3: sign to replace them, then that's also a problem and

1080
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 3: maybe a misread as to where you were after this year.

1081
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and continue to improving from the twenty twenty three

1082
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 2: and twenty two and two drift classes as well.

1083
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 1: That's going to be the foundation of the team absolutely.

1084
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 2: All right, this was fun man, good stuff. I appreciate

1085
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 2: the time. So after taking a little bit long, let's

1086
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 2: keep up. I'm sure we'll be hanging out the combine together.

1087
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 2: That'll be fun and we'll talk soon.

1088
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 1: All right. Sounds great, John Art Stapleton again, check them out.

1089
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us on the gihns little podcast, brought

1090
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 2: to you by Citizens Official Bank of the Giants.

1091
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 1: We'll see you next time. Everybody