WEBVTT - Heaux Church 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:00.800 Hey, viewers. 0:00:00.880 --> 0:00:04.400 Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is an explicit podcast about queer sex. 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:08.600 Filter dirty words and unfiltered descriptions of sexual activities. If 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.800 hearing about orgies, anonymous sex, kink, fetish, and more offends 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:16.360 your sensibilities, you might want to skip this Viewer discretion 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:18.880 is advised. It's definitely not for kids. 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:24.279 Put your pussy, put your put your pussy up, Put 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:26.880 your pussy, put, put your pussy. 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.400 Welcome to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. I'm Gabelon Sadez and. 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:33.480 I'm christtison Rosso. Each week we explore the sublime world 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:35.560 of queer sex, cruising, and relationships. 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:37.240 We talk to queer folks of all kinds. 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:41.040 We'll ask some questions, swap sex stories, share intimate revelations, 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:43.640 and provide practical advice that you can use at home. 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:48.840 Jo put Joe, pussy, put Joe, put put your put 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:50.560 put your. 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:52.760 So Yes, Chris so Gabe. 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:55.000 Today we're going to talk about a topic that is 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:57.080 it's fraught, it's charged. 0:00:57.400 --> 0:00:58.440 We're talking about religion. 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:02.680 Yes, yes, Before we dive in, I would like to 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:05.160 know did you grow up in a religious household? 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:07.199 Were you spiritual or religious at all? 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:11.880 Yeah. So it's interesting because my mom wasn't very religious 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:16.440 my grandmother was, but growing up in predominantly white neighborhoods, 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:20.160 my mom thought that going to a black church would 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:21.760 be a go way for us to build community, and 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:25.039 so that's what we did. We would like drive almost 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:27.840 an hour to the black part of town. But what 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:31.399 happened was the kids were really nasty to my brother 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:34.880 and I. They teased us a lot at about like 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:37.559 I don't know, twelve or thirteen. I just like begged 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:39.440 my mom, please do not make me go back. These 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:42.600 kids are really really terrible. Yeah. I hated it. 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:44.160 I hate because it felt like I was going to 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:46.200 something that my parents wanted to go to to like 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:47.240 try to fix something in their life. 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:48.720 And I was like, I'm good. So this is a 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:49.760 bit of my my lore. 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:50.320 You don't know. 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:52.640 I used to read at church. Oh, from the ages 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:55.480 of ten to fourteen, my parents made me read at church. 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:57.960 So like they were like, how do we channel this, 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:02.040 Like obviously faggy child's energy towards something that we so 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:05.800 they were like, get up on stage, great idea. So 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:10.120 I'd be like reading from first Philippians like seek not 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:11.440 Shelter from you. 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:14.640 It was not I just made that up. 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:15.600 Oh yeah, that's real. 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:17.880 And then it was in Spanish, so. 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:20.919 It was like, oh yeah, this is a whole nother layer. 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:24.760 Whatever, you know what I mean. It was like really bad, insane. 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:26.920 So that was my life for a while. And obviously 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:28.840 all the old ladies flocked to the faggy child who 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:30.520 would read a church and I'd be like, you're gonna 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:32.760 be such a great young young man when you grow up, 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:34.079 and you're going to marry a beautiful wife. 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:35.120 And I was like, oh, we're. 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:39.639 Not, okay, we aren't seeing ida yea very like gentle indoctrination. 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:42.919 You're so talented and handsome and straight, right, yeah. 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:45.000 All right. It is no secret that being raised in 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:48.560 religious communities or households that have negative views on sexuality 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:51.480 can impact queer kids in dramatic ways as we grow up, 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:51.919 and for. 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:53.920 Those of us who know this experience, we know it 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:56.560 can sometimes take a really long time, sometimes years, to 0:02:56.720 --> 0:03:00.480 recover from these harmful teachings, leading to a string from 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:02.040 those who claim to love us the most. 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:05.239 It can change our fundamental relationship to religion and force 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:07.320 us to question whether we want to worship a god 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:10.000 who we've been told doesn't like our very existence. 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:12.680 Many of our guests over the past three seasons have 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:15.800 been people who have used their queer adulthood to prepare 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:19.520 their trauma and embrace their sexuality. But our guest today 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:23.040 is taking it one step further. They're forming a new church, 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:27.440 a hoe Church spelled hgaux, and they're here today to 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:28.400 spread the gospel. 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:31.840 Our guest today, Brandon Kyle Goodman, is a writer, actor, host, 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:35.000 and sexual and mental wellness advocate, best known for their 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:38.040 work on netflix Immy nominated comedy series Big Mouth, and 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:41.120 it's been off Human Resources as well as Amazon's Modern 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:43.080 Love and ABC's Avid Elementary. 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:46.119 In twenty twenty four, Brandan Kyle Goodman launched their incredible 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:50.320 podcast tell Me Something Messy on our very own iHeart Network. 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:52.800 And now they're undertaking their biggest endeavor yet, making their 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:56.200 off Broadway debut and their original one person show, Hoe Church, 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:59.840 a celebration of self love that features spirited storytelling, divine music, 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:02.360 and all things holy to heal the parts of ourselves 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:03.560 that shame tries the erase. 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:06.840 Presented in association with Lena Waithe. The Hoe Church is 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:09.520 open now through November eighth, at ars Nova in New 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:10.080 York City. 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:11.480 Absolutely go please. 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:15.800 Tickets are available at ars Nova NYC dot com. 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.960 Welcome to Nippy's Cruising Confessions, The Honorable Revenue in the making. 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:23.200 Brandon Kyle Goodman, Hi, how are you Ho Seminary Ben, 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:26.360 it's been sexy. 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.039 Thank you for bringing your ministry to the heathens. 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:31.799 Of New York. Oh my god, my pleasure, my absolute pleasure. 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.800 So now, without telling us too much, we're giving away 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:35.160 the show. 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.000 What exactly is Ho Church? 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:39.200 How did it come about? 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:39.400 Oh? 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:42.360 My goodness, what is it? Well, it's my it's my baby, 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:44.800 my brain child. I like to describe it as Pee 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:48.120 Wee's Playhouse meets Doctor Ruth with a sprinkle or a 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:50.360 dash of Wendy Williams if you will. 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:52.520 Okay, So, like haven't seen the show? That is a 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:53.440 perfect description. 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:58.200 We call it like the sex education for adults, but 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:01.680 in the framework of children's shows, using that nostalgia of 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:04.359 learning or Sunday school to talk about the things that 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:07.560 we do not talk about, which is our bodies, our desires, 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:10.599 our love, and our families and our trauma, but in 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:12.240 a way that feels safe, relatable. 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:15.640 I love the Doctor Ruth comp sustainable and watch her 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:17.240 on the Oxygen. 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:28.200 Networks Clomb back to back, an elite block of television. 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:31.720 What a great comp right, because I think we are 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.200 kind of lacking figures like that. It's really hard to 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:38.400 find resources as an adult or even a young adult 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:41.640 these days to talk honestly and without shame about sex, right. 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:43.440 Yeah, And that's the key is like how do you 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:46.520 talk about these things without feeling shame? Like I think 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:48.560 doctor Ruth was. It felt comforting because she was like 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:50.760 a grandmother and you talk about these nasty things and 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:52.560 she was always like uh huh, and you do this 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:54.200 and you do that. It's like, oh yeah, that energy 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:57.719 where if the person receiving it isn't like, oh scandal, 0:05:58.000 --> 0:05:59.560 then you w on the receiving end also get to 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:01.600 be like, oh Okay, this isn't this isn't a big deal. 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.800 Like I'm not alone, I'm normal, and we all want 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:05.440 to feel normal. 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:07.479 I would love to know what your definition of a 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:08.120 hoe is. 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:11.560 Yeah, well, you know, I spell it h gau X 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:14.919 and I say it's the bougie, it's upgrade. But I 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.800 define a hoe as someone who commits to the liberation 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:21.680 of themselves and others by thoughtfully interrogating their relationship to 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:24.680 sex using curiosity, communication and compassion. 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:27.559 Oh yeah, the three c's, the three c's. 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:30.680 Well, how did you go about kind of developing this 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:32.760 this working definition? What was it in your life that 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:34.480 kind of helped you hone in on this? 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:37.760 Well, I wrote on Big Mouth for a while, and 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:40.320 then the pandemic happened, and I'm still working on the show, 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:43.320 and I ended up becoming one of the people talking 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:47.040 about race and identity and intersectionality, which you know, I 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:49.760 was very grateful to be able to have my platform 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:53.920 to do that, but also, like I like telling dick jokes, 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:56.520 I missed that part of my life. So I went 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:58.600 on my stories and I said, tell me something good, 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:01.040 tell me something messy, And of course people were at 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:03.040 home and they were horning us up, and so everything 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:06.200 that I was getting was about sex. And then this 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:09.680 working definition of a hoe came up, and then I 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:16.920 was starting to explore my own hoe festivities if you will, okay, 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:19.720 And then it was just like talking about it and 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:21.880 sharing it, because you know, when we share about a thing, 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:24.640 the shame goes away. So then it just started it 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.400 started to take office, like this messy Monday's brand and 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:29.000 messy pose and stuff like that. 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:30.280 So I love mess. 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:32.800 I love mess Murray Condo. 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:36.120 I actively engage in mess sometimes. I do say this. 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:40.800 Difference between messy and sloppy messy were not sloppy. MESSI 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:44.440 is human like just like perfectionism is a fallacy. So 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:47.480 being messy like going through life, like figuring things out. 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:49.760 You might function up, but that is. 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:50.680 Part of it, you know. 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:52.760 But sloppy is like, that's a different girl. 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:56.040 I don't. 0:07:58.720 --> 0:07:58.960 Love it. 0:07:59.000 --> 0:07:59.960 Therapy love readable. 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:03.760 I do you feel like MESSI is natural? Sloppy is intentional, right. 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:04.240 That is it? 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:08.280 Yes, that's exactly So for our listeners, what does the 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:09.960 whole church look like? 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.640 Like I'm walking in for the first time to mass 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:13.360 What am I seeing? 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:15.760 Well, you know, the designers Launce Emote in the third 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:19.240 and civo Ark Nosey and Matt Lazarus, who are set 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:23.360 projections and lighting design just really teamed up to build 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:25.440 a fucking church. So when you walk in, it looks 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:28.800 like a church. But the archways are modeled after volvas, 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:30.920 and if you look on the floor there are volvas, 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:32.520 and my like runway is. 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:34.920 A penis and the stained class windows are penises. 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:36.199 But I also wanted. 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:38.960 It to feel like it could be architectural digest like. 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:39.840 That was the thing we wanted. 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:42.160 Wanted to feel like something You look at me like, oh, 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:44.760 that's actually beautiful, and then when you look a little closer, 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:45.880 you're like, and that's a penis. 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:46.480 You know. 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:48.920 The hope is that it immediately makes you feel joy, 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:50.440 the same way that when you saw Pee Wee Set, 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:52.680 or you see Sesame Street immediately go, oh my god, 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:53.880 that's I want to be there. 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:56.120 I want to touch everything. Speaking of Pee Wee and 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:59.680 Sesame Street, there are puppets, are there? There are puppets. Yeah, 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.920 I love puppets. We love puppetry. 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:03.640 Yes. 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:07.040 Greg Corbino, who's our puppet designer and puppeteer, is just 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:09.240 a genius and we've been working with him from the 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:11.880 inception of the show. The first puppets that we had 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:17.320 were Pussy Puppet and but Whole aka Pussy Pussy is 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:19.400 modeled after Earth the Kits, so she has a very 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:24.480 like Darling but hold a model after Beaker, so he 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:25.160 doesn't really. 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:29.240 Love that. 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:32.679 And then Floppy, who is our emotional penis who can 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:35.120 only get hard when he's emotionally connected, so there's. 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:36.160 Room for floppy to grow. 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:38.880 Yes, yeah, I mean there is something kind of inherently 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:41.760 phallic about church symbology. I feel like the Catholics love 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:44.400 a like hard dick hidden somewhere in their imagery. 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:47.040 We got the columns. Jesus on the cross is carrying it. 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:47.560 He's grunted. 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:50.600 Jesus is always hot, like always bodied. 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:53.400 And I'm wondering why who is painting Jesus for all 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:53.920 those years? 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:59.360 Yea, all those gates. I'm something exactly. 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:01.120 That was. 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:09.319 Yes, from Michaelangelo to you direct connection. 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:14.440 Now in the show, you use. 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:17.120 Your own experiences to kind of share why you founded 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:19.880 a new church that celebrates host So let's dive in. 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:22.319 Could you tell us a bit about your experience with 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.320 organized religion growing up and how that kind of impacted 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:27.760 your sense of spirituality and identity today. 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:29.960 Yeah, I mean the show starts with me sharing that 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:32.440 I'm a PK, a pastor's kid. So my grandmother was 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:34.960 a minister, So I grew up in the church. My 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:37.520 mom and grandmother and I all live together, and so 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:39.679 I was just replacing my mom as the p K. 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:42.840 I was in church every Sunday, I was you know, 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:46.880 Bible studies, and then my mom was often exploring other 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:50.560 things outside of Christianity, and so in my teenage years 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:52.079 I started hanging out with her, and so we were 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.240 going to like metaphysical church, Unity Church of New York. 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:58.080 But then we also did like Buddhism. 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:01.320 We did Ancient Egyptian ideology, we did the Secret we 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:04.800 did like just she was like always bouncing around, always searching, 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:08.240 and so my spiritual background was kind of started with Christianity, 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:10.840 but then also got exposed to all these other things. 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.079 And so I just had a fascination with religion and 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:16.760 people's ways of worship. When I was in my twenties 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:19.360 early twenties, my mom became born again after my grandmother 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:20.640 passed away, and so then. 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:23.160 My mom went right back to the church and harder 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:23.800 way than my grandma. 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.400 My grandmother was dope actually, like she was like Jesus 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:29.280 was king, but like she wasn't like fire and brimstone, 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:32.200 And for some reason, my mom's return to church became 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.520 very fire and brimstone, and so that preated a rupture 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:38.280 between us, and so we haven't spoken in about fifteen years. 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:41.959 It really forced me to like rebuild my own church 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:44.920 for myself. I think what was interesting to me is 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:46.880 that my mom tried to get me to go back 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:49.440 to this thing, but I was already raised, like she'd 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:50.439 already raised. 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:52.120 A very kind of open minded person. 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:54.320 She'd already taken me through all these different things, and 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:56.079 so it was hard to put the girl back in 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.560 a box, you know. And so yeah, with that, with 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:01.880 that relationship severed, I just started to ask more intentional 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.360 questions about like what is belief, what is spirituality? 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:05.120 What is it to me? 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:07.240 What do I want it to be? Who is God? 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:08.640 And so all of. 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:11.040 That exists inside of who Church, which is really just 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:15.240 asking the audience to critically think for themselves what works 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:15.560 for you? 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:16.120 What do you want? 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:19.000 Just because you were told one thing doesn't mean it's true. 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:21.840 I'm I use a Walt Whitman quote in the show, 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:24.480 re examine all you've been told in school or in church, 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:27.160 in any book, and dismiss whatever insults your own soul. 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:30.120 And so that to me is like the anchor of 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:31.840 the show, like, just re examine it. 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:34.160 If you like it, you like it, but if you don't, 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:35.800 you get to say, oh, I don't actually like this, 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:36.760 this actually don't work for me. 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:39.680 Let me go find something else. Were you close with 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:41.600 your mom and your grandmother and when you came out, 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:43.000 and what did that process look like. 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:47.280 When I came out, I was like twenty. My grandmother 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:48.880 that point was in the nursing home. I never actually 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:50.560 came out to my grandmother, but my mom, Yeah, I 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:52.960 did come out to her. We were very close and 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:56.120 we remained close after I came out. Then after Grandma died, 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:59.000 that's when it flipped. So that's what made it jarring, 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:02.000 is that, like her flip happened at my apartment that 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:04.640 I lived with my boyfriend. So she like came over 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.120 to the apartment that she'd been too many times to 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:08.400 like read me Bible verses. 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:10.040 It said my life was a sin and so you're 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:13.280 just like okay, and the Bible verses are she found. 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:16.480 She found the good one and. 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:21.199 I guess has opinions on shrimp, has opinions on core people, 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:23.520 has opinions opinion. 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:26.040 She was spiraling one night and I don't like any 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:27.160 of this is a crash. 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:29.840 She went to a red lobster and an it she 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:31.720 sweater and had a mean gay server. 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:32.679 That's what happened. 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.320 And there are like three solid verses that she she 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:40.559 read to me all from like Corinthians, Liviticus, and the 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:43.840 first Book of Timothy. And it was just like, oh 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.800 ship in the moment, I mean, if I can go 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:50.240 back to that time, there's like a disassociating because there's 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:52.960 true confusion, Like you know, the first one, I was 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:56.640 truly like, okay, cool, great, yeah for sure, the sexually 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:59.600 immoral and all learners, yeah whatever. And the second one 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:01.720 was limited kiss and it's like a man lays with 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:04.360 a mail, they should be put to death, and you're like, uh. 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:06.320 Huh, so wait, tell me what this is about. 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.560 By that last one, I was like, Oh, all the 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:12.720 dots are putting together. We put our parents and our 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:15.360 families and pedestals. Yes, and so especially I think as 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.040 an only child with a single mom, that's my world, 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:21.360 Like that's my constellation. Naturally, I'll do anything to not 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:25.080 fuck up the stars. So my brain is telling me 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:28.800 everything else besides like oh no, this is homophobia that's 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:30.960 happening in front of your face. And so it was 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:34.880 pretty devastating. Once I like put it together, and yeah, 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:36.440 we've never been the same since. 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.520 Obviously we end up talking about religion with so many guests, 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:42.360 just by virtue of the fact that we ask them 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:44.760 about their coming out, and a lot of people will 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:47.480 often point to, like, religious parents, we're sort of religious 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.760 trauma growing up surrounding that. It's just so tough to hear, right, 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:52.440 that you like somebody you love and that your whole 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:54.880 world revolves around is just like, Okay, well I read 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:57.200 these things written thousands of years ago and then edited 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.640 by a bunch of old, rich guys one hundred years 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:02.479 after that, and so it's like it can be heartbreaking 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:08.040 to see somebody put more stock in text than ye built. 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:10.760 That is the heartbreaking part. The heartbreaking part is that like, 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:14.040 I'm here, I'm right in front of you. This is 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:17.000 a book, and it's a valuable book and a holy book, 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:17.920 but like. 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.120 It doesn't have to do anything with what's happening right here. 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:23.360 It's hard to compute, it's hard to process because it's like, well, 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:27.440 we've had at that point twenty years together. Why wouldn't 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:29.320 you go, oh, this doesn't make sense because I'm in 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:31.600 front of this person, right, But instead you're going, oh, 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:32.400 you don't make sense. 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:33.600 It's a betrayal. 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:36.160 Yeah, it's a it's a betrayal because you know, family 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:39.200 is supposed to be where you are you're safest, and 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:42.840 when that doesn't happen, it's a death, it's a it's 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:44.480 a grieving that you have to go through that you 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:48.160 don't even realize is a grief because when you say 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:50.360 it's like my mom, like my mother isn't dead to me, 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:52.600 Like that's not the thing, but it's like, oh, this 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:56.520 relationship has died, Like even if we were to reunite, 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:57.240 it has. 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:00.120 To be a different relationship. Same, like this version of 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:01.000 us is gone. 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:05.400 Yeah, and that's devastating because I loved that version, but 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:07.760 I also multiple truths get to co exist. I also 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:11.120 realized that that version wasn't actually real because I wasn't 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:14.000 able to be my full self and so that version 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:18.240 hinged on an authentic version of me or withholding right, 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:21.560 we haven't actually had a real relationship yet. 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:23.400 Yeah, and that's why I felt with my mom for 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:23.880 so long. 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:25.520 Yeah, I was like, oh, we don't really know, we 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:26.880 don't really know what I feel like I got into 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:30.560 my late twenties before we spoke to each other honestly, Yeah, Okay. 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:32.640 We have ideas of each other or you have an 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:35.200 idea of me. And that's also like a very Caribbean 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:39.080 where like it's not allowing your child to become an 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:42.160 adult to keep them in that child box. That's a 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:44.680 level of control that like I think we should examine 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:46.280 and we should like pull a thread at it again. 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:48.720 If you choose it beautiful, but also some of us 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.600 are choosing it by default as opposed to really intentionally 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:52.000 be like. 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:53.720 Is this okay? Is this the type of dynamic I 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:54.440 want to be itt. 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:58.480 Were you raised in a particular denomination of Christianity or 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:00.000 was it one of those kind of open turns. 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:04.320 No, it was some Moravian, which is a Moravian which 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:07.240 is like Protestant. 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:09.800 Get this wrong, but it might be like Swedish or 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:13.560 some shit. It came to Trinidad, Oh wow. 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.880 What our churches were Black and Caribbean, which is also 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:20.880 interesting because it came to the islands obviously colonization, and 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.760 it was something that the culture took into the States 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:26.159 because my grandma's church was here in Brooklyn. You know, 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:28.280 Caribbean is like wild you know what I'm saying, like 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:30.280 Calypso and we are very like in. 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:33.920 This church, just pulled together ways quiet. 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:34.320 You know. 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:37.120 It's just like interesting to be like that's not culturally 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:40.280 yours and yet it's what we have held on to. 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:42.720