1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to America now, Mr garbutschaf teared down this wall. 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:10,039 Speaker 1: Or either you're with us or you were with the terrorists. 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: If you've got healthcare already, then you can keep your plan. 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: If you are satisfied with young Trump is not president 5 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:18,760 Speaker 1: of the United States, take it to a bank. Together. 6 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: We will make America great again. We'll never sharender. It's 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: what you've been waiting for all day. Buck Sexton, with 8 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: America now joined the conversation called buck toll free at 9 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 1: eight four four nine hundred Buck. That's eight four four 10 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: nine hundred two, eight to five, sharp mind, strong voice, 11 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: Buck Sexton. Brave young men have been taken from us. 12 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: Many others have been grievously wounded. Are we to tell 13 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: them their sacrifice was wasted? They gave their lives in 14 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: defense of our national security, every bit as much as 15 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: any man who ever died fighting in a war. We 16 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,279 Speaker 1: must not strip every ounce of meaning and purpose from 17 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: their courageous sacrifice. We're a nation with global responsibilities. We're 18 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 1: not somewhere else in the world protecting someone else's interests. 19 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: We're there protecting our own. I received a message from 20 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: the father of a marine in Lebanon he told me, 21 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: in a world where we speak of human rights, there 22 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:30,119 Speaker 1: is a sad lack of acceptance of responsibility. My son 23 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: has chosen the acceptance of responsibility for the privilege of 24 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: living in this country. Certainly, in this country one does 25 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: not inherently have rights unless the responsibility for these rights 26 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: is accepted. Doctor Kenneth Morrison said that while he was 27 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: waiting to learn if his son was one of the dead, 28 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: I was thrilled for him to learn today that his 29 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: son Ross is alive and well and carrying on his 30 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: duties in Lebanon. Let us meet our responsibilities. For longer 31 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: than any of us can remember, the people of the 32 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: Middle East have lived from war to war with no 33 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: prospect for any other future. That dreadful cycle must be broken. 34 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: Why are we there but Eleveanese mother told one of 35 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: our ambassadors that her little girl had only attended school 36 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: to of the last eight years. Now because of our 37 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: presence there, she said, her daughter could live a normal 38 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: life with patients and firmness. We can help bring peace 39 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: to that strife torn region and make our own lives 40 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: more secure. That was President Reagan on October three. He 41 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: was speaking just days after the October three bombing of 42 00:02:54,800 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: the Marine barracks in Beyrout, a mass casualty event against 43 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: US troops that was the beginning of a much longer, 44 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: brutal saga of jihadiest violence against both civilians and our 45 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: forces in the Middle East and around the rest of 46 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: the world. Now, in that speech, you certainly heard much 47 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: of what you would expect from Reagan. A great president, 48 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: a man who helped bring down the Soviet Union and 49 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: when the Cold War, the man who had an ability 50 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: to communicate and an understanding of the US role in 51 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: the world, and a love of the American people and 52 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: what we mean also for non Americans all over the world. 53 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: It should also be noted, though, that Reagan, like any 54 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: commander in chief, was not always perfect in his decision 55 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: making processes, or perhaps a better way of saying it 56 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: is that not everything worked out the way that it 57 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: was supposed to in terms of the long term strategic objective. 58 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: Some months after he gave that speech, in which he 59 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: was redoubling efforts of the multinational force in Beirut separating 60 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: various factions in a brutal and lengthy civil war, the 61 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: Civil War in Lebanon, stretching from nineteen seventy five to 62 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: nineteen fifteen years. Some months after he gave that speech, 63 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 1: the US presence in Beirut, US military presence came to 64 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: an end and we withdrew, and it wasn't for some 65 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: time after that that there was a long and sustained ceasefire. 66 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: Many of the same arguments, discussions, and analyzes that you 67 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: will hear today you have been hearing, i am sure 68 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: of the last twenty four hours with regard to the 69 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: US role in Syria have are really echoes of what 70 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: you would have heard back in the early nineteen eighties 71 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 1: during the Reagan administration. Many of the UH problems that 72 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: we face in the Middle East. In fact, the factions 73 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: that we face in a situation like Syria are quite 74 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: similar to what we would have what we did see, 75 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: what U S troops, U S Marines and others did 76 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: see in Lebanon in the early nineteen eighties during the 77 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: course of this multinational force UK, US, Italy and France 78 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: for European sorry four Powers, through European allies and working 79 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: together to try and just keep these all these different 80 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,919 Speaker 1: factions from continuing in this brutal civil war that people 81 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: civilians of course, as always, were caught in the crossfire 82 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: of You had the PLO, you had an Israeli military incursion, 83 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: you had Shia Arab factions, you had Maronite Christian factions, 84 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: soon Arab factions. You had street to street fighting in 85 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: Beirut which had been called the Paris of the Middle 86 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: East for many years, a beautiful city and with a 87 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: long standing tradition of uh internationalism and cosmopolitanism, and it 88 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: was completely and utterly destroyed, a pock marked and shell 89 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: shell shocked reminder of just what can happen, What can 90 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 1: happen when you have the brutality of all kinds of 91 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: ethnic and sectarian other hatred coming together. So we've been 92 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: in a place similar to where we are now in 93 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: terms of the decisions that we face, and I know 94 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: we're hearing quite a lot about how we must do 95 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: something about Syria. I would want to tell you over 96 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: the course of the next hour or so on the show, 97 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: I wanted to spend some time really looking at this 98 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: issue and trying to give both the necessary context as 99 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: well as some analysis that may break with what you're 100 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: hearing from others on the right, other conservatives, even other 101 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: GOP pundits. Because to me, this really matters a great 102 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: deal if we are going to commit US troops to 103 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: an intervention in Syria, not just against the Islamic state, 104 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: that I think is much more doable, though still fraught 105 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: with its own risks. If we're going to commit US 106 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: troops to toppling the Assad regime, or even trying to 107 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: stop the Assad regime, which I don't know how you 108 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: can do that at this point without toppling it, we 109 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: have to understand that we would be getting in the 110 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: middle of a civil war many years into it that 111 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: is similar to what we faced in Beirut, Lebanon and 112 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: the rest of Lebanon, but on a much larger scale, 113 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: though some of the players are the same. The Assaud 114 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: regime and its influence in Lebanon in the nineteen eighties 115 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: was a profound part of much of the conflict there. 116 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: So I wanted to take time with you to talk 117 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: about this instead of just spending all of our time 118 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: together today on Oh you know, did you hear the 119 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: latest thing that someone said about how Susan Rice isn't 120 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: a liar? Oh, isn't that so ridiculous? I think that's 121 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: necessary as well. There's an effort to destroy this White House, 122 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: to de legitimize this president, and you can't let that 123 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: narrative go unchallenged. But this matters to me a great 124 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 1: deal more than the the latest back and forth, the 125 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 1: latest partisan ping pong over the Trump Russia conspiracy that 126 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: is never going to be proven, but will also never 127 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:49,959 Speaker 1: go away. And we should understand that because those in 128 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: the left who believe that Trump is has sold out 129 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: his country, they'll never give that up. But now we 130 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: have the President United States at least making some early 131 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:03,199 Speaker 1: indications that he would consider a commitment of US troops 132 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: into Syria or we do something about the Assad regime. Well, 133 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: I think the Obama administration had a great opportunity to 134 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: solve this crisis a long time ago when he said 135 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:21,959 Speaker 1: the red line and the sand and when he didn't 136 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 1: cross that line after making the threat, I think that 137 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: set us back a long ways, not only in Syria 138 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 1: but in many of the parts of the world because 139 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: it was a blank threat. I think it was something 140 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: that was not one of our better days as a country. 141 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: So I do feel that, Julie, I feel it very strongly. 142 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: I now have responsibility and I will have that responsibility 143 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: and carry it very proudly, I will tell you that 144 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: it is now my responsibility. It was a great opportunity missed. 145 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: I think everything he said there about the Obama administration 146 00:09:57,920 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: is true. In fact, I said it to you here 147 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: on the show yesterday. Um, if you are to look 148 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: at the situation, drawing this historical parallel for the purposes 149 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: of illuminating the present moment, if you were to look 150 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: at the the situation in the early days of US 151 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: action in Beirut, if you had had Jimmy Carter as 152 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: president beforehand, a far left democrat who allowed much of 153 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: u s foreign policy in the Middle East to be upended, 154 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: allowed our interests to erode and in some cases collapse, 155 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: allowed Allied regimes to collapse, and then you had a 156 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: strong Republican president come into office. But as I pointed 157 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: out to you, the intervention in Lebanon was not a 158 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 1: strategic success, one of the forgotten military efforts of the 159 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: Reagan administration. It did not achieve it's it did not 160 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: achieve its objective, and of course we lost hundreds hundreds 161 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: of our own in that horrible day on October the 162 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: bombing of the Marine barracks. So there are some similarities 163 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: you could draw between the Obama administration leaving it for 164 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 1: the successor regime and Jimmy Carter leaving a mess in 165 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: the Middle East as well. But Obama mean, but Trump 166 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,959 Speaker 1: is right here. It's not Obama's problem anymore. Now, it's 167 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: Trump's problem. I do think the media coverage of what's 168 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: going on in Syria now has to be put in 169 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 1: a context of all of a sudden there is NonStop 170 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 1: coverage how terrible and the atrocities, and uh, it's a 171 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: way of raising awareness in a in a proper way 172 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: of what's happening in Syria. But I also think that 173 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: there's a much greater willingness to show just how terrible 174 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: Syria is now that President Obama is no longer in office. 175 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: I think that our media here does take that into account, 176 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: because the usage of chemical weapons in Syria is not new. 177 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: In fact, it's happened many times. This is just the 178 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: most recent event where chemical weapons have been used. But 179 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: the Obama administration negotiated a deal for the removal of 180 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: chemical weapons from Syria that did not stop the usage 181 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: of chemical weapons, and oh, by the way, followed up 182 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: the administration drawing a red line that they did not 183 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: enforce on chemical weapons. And we cannot forget that. We 184 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: have been very clear to the outside regime but also 185 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: to other players on the ground that a red line 186 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of 187 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: chemical weapons moving around or being utilized. That would change 188 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: my calculus, That would change my equation. Didn't change his 189 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: calculus if that was supposed to mean that he would 190 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: do something about the usage of chemical weapons. Now, just 191 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: a note here as we go further into this over 192 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: the course of this hour, and also by the way, 193 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: we will talk about Trump's meeting with Asian Ping, the 194 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: Premier of China, will talk about Susan Rice and the 195 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: latest allegations there. We'll talk about North Korea and Secretary 196 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 1: of State Rex Tillerson, uh that Steve Bannon is no 197 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: longer on the NSC And yes, I might even get 198 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: to that Pepsi commercial that has been pulled. So we 199 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: have a very packed show. But this hour, as a 200 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,959 Speaker 1: former CIA analyst on the Middle East, to spend time 201 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,959 Speaker 1: in the Middle East, who has been in two war zones, 202 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: who has as a journalist, been to the refugee camp 203 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: at Zachary and looked in the eyes of the Syrian 204 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: children years ago, as they have been driven from their 205 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 1: homes and witnessed atrocities and terror that no human beings 206 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: should ever have to see. Um And I worked against 207 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: an enemy in Iraq that is very similar to what 208 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: we face today in Syria with the Islamic State, and 209 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: I have to say I'm somewhat surprised sometimes that there 210 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: aren't more from what I would call the nine eleven generation, 211 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: which is not so much a description of an age 212 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: range as just those who joined up to fight after 213 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: nine eleven. Not enough of our voices in the media. 214 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,319 Speaker 1: There are a lot of people that have very big 215 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: audiences and that have very big opinions on this matter, 216 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: that have never served and have certain certainly no service 217 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: in war zones. That doesn't delegitimize their opinions, but I 218 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: just wish there were more people uh in media in general, 219 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: who were able to weigh in on this, who have 220 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: at least some personal familiarity with what it would mean 221 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: to militarily intervene in Syria based on what we've seen 222 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: in Iraq and Afghanistan. How many friends of yours, family members, 223 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: perhaps many of you listening as well, have quite a 224 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: close connection to US military action against UH, the precursor 225 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: to the Islamic state UH. And I wanted to give 226 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: you some of, well the benefit of what I think 227 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: is a useful background here, having been a CI analysts 228 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: and spent time at some of these places, and talk 229 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: to you about what what a Syrian intervention would really 230 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: mean if if appling assad is now where this president 231 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: is going. We need to get a very sober sense 232 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: of what that would look like. And this is not 233 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: about cheerleading for Trump. This is not ra ra make 234 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: America great again. Anything Trump says is awesome. This is 235 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: serious business. Let's talk a bit about it. It crossed 236 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: a lot of lines for me when you kill innocent children, 237 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: innocent babies, babies, little babies with a chemical gas that 238 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: is so lethal. People were shocked to hear what gas 239 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: it was. That crosses many many lines, beyond the red line, 240 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:46,119 Speaker 1: many many lines, headline the Wall Street Journal, Trump signals 241 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: Syria policy shift after suspected attack. He also called it 242 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: a terrible affront to humanity, to humanity, saying that it 243 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: crossed the line for him and everyone is a sue me. Now, 244 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: there must be something that comes out of this that 245 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: is different. It wasn't long ago that it was thought 246 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: to be understood that the Trump administration had no interest 247 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: in removing Assad from power. Now people are saying, well, 248 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: maybe that's not the case, maybe he will do something 249 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: about the Assad regime. But as I was saying to 250 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: you before we had to go into a break, there 251 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: have been many incidents of chemical weapons usage by the 252 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: Assad regime. Of course, this comes after not only a 253 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: deal brokered by Secretary of St John Kerry under Obama's 254 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: time in office, but a deal that they all that 255 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: they trotted around as something to be proud of. So yeah, 256 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: they got rid of the chemical weapons, except for the 257 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: chemical weapons that are used on civilians in uh many cases. 258 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: I mean they're the u N has been pulling together 259 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: for years now documented instances of chemical weapons usage stretching 260 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 1: back to the chemical weapons have been used. There's the 261 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: Guda attack, a suburb of Damascus, the capital of Syria. 262 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: This is not new, and it should also be noted 263 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: that while the usage of chemical weapons is of course 264 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 1: a violation of the Geneva Convention and is a terrible 265 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: way for anyone, for any civilian to die, there are 266 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 1: civilians that are killed on a regular basis in Syria 267 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: that are buried into the rubble after Russian air strikes, 268 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: that are dying because of barrel bombs pushed out of 269 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 1: Syrian military helicopter over civilian areas. Five hundred thousand people 270 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: are estimated to have been killed here. The horrors of 271 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: the Syrian Civil War are by no means new. In fact, 272 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: they've become I think, such a regular occurrence that many 273 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 1: in the news media and many around the world have 274 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: lost a lot of interest in it. I think that 275 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: right now, because the administration that was in power is gone, 276 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 1: there's a willingness to pull back the covers and show 277 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: everybody just how terrible this is. And now turned to 278 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: the Trump administration and say what are you going to 279 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 1: do about it? And as he said in that sound 280 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 1: bite before we came back from break, he recognizes that 281 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: his commander chief, this is his responsibility, but he is 282 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 1: in a tough spot. Um, I'll talk to you a 283 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: bit here about what an intervention might entail and what 284 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: some of the recent history of US actions in the 285 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,239 Speaker 1: Middle East, in Iraq, and before that, as I was 286 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: talking to you at the top of the show in Lebanon, 287 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: where many of the same dynamics and players were involved, 288 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: and our efforts there UH did not did not go 289 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: as planned at all. So we need to be very 290 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 1: careful here with the direction of this administration all in 291 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: this foreign policy manner, because I will say I believe 292 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:13,439 Speaker 1: there are some basic underlying foreign policy principles that Donald 293 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:17,199 Speaker 1: Trump has, Like I understand what the enemy is Radical Islam, 294 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: and I'll say that, but how to fight against that 295 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: enemy That requires a lot of serious and detailed analysis 296 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: and organizing principles or policy will hit those in just 297 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: a minute. If you have any thoughts on a change 298 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 1: in policy from President Trump on Syria, would very much 299 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: like to hear what you think about all this, and 300 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: especially if any of you listening served in the military 301 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 1: in any capacity, and if you served in the rock Afghanistan, 302 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: what do you think about the possibility of a US 303 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 1: military UH action of some kind in Syria. Maybe it's 304 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,919 Speaker 1: just air strikes, maybe it's nothing. I am actually if 305 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: you're gonna put me on the spot and say, Buck, 306 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: what are your expect paitions for what Trump will do 307 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 1: in response to this chemical weapons attack? Um And by 308 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: the way, I mentioned before, the GUDA is the one 309 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 1: that received the gouda chemical webs attack I believe it 310 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: was saran gas was used received the most attention. In 311 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: the past, there have been reports many other times of 312 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: chemical weapons attacks in Syria. Sometimes that includes chlorine attacks, 313 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: which aren't which is a chemical weapon, but it can 314 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: be used a chemic weapon, but it is not of 315 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,880 Speaker 1: the same caliber and lethality as some of the other 316 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: cws that can be deployed on the battlefield were against 317 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,360 Speaker 1: civilians as we've seen. So I don't think that there 318 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: will be a change in policy from the administration on 319 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: this um. There might be an escalation of existing policies. 320 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: We currently are working with militias in Syria on the 321 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: ground that are trying to get closer to Roca, the 322 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,479 Speaker 1: Islamic States capital in Syria. We are hoping to defeat 323 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: and destroy the Islamic State. That is not a change, 324 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:02,719 Speaker 1: but that is a continuation and perhaps an acceleration under Trump. 325 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: We will destroy ISIS and we will protect civilization. We 326 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: have no choice. We will protect civilization. King Abdullah and 327 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: I also discussed measures to combat the evil an ideology 328 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: that inspires ISIS and plagues our planet. In addition, we 329 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: also acknowledge the vital role that Jordan has played in 330 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 1: hosting refugees from the conflict in Syria. We have just 331 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: announced that the United States will contribute additional funds to 332 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: Jordan's for humanitarian assistance. This aid will help countries like 333 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,439 Speaker 1: Jordan's hosts refugees until it is safe for them to 334 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: return home. The refugees want to return home. I've visited 335 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: with those refugees, as I mentioned to you before, I've 336 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,360 Speaker 1: been in Satie, which is the large Just Syrian refugee 337 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: camp in Jordan's. When I was there, it was about 338 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: a hundred and ten thousand people in tents in the 339 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: middle of the desert in crushing heat. Uh, and I 340 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: was there with a friend who was also acting as translator, 341 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: interviewing families and talking to them. They were terrified. Obviously, 342 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 1: many of them had stories to tell that would uh 343 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: not only haunt them for years to come, but when 344 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: you hear them, it's tough to shake off what you've 345 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: been through, just to be exposed in person to the 346 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 1: difficulties and the atrocities that have been far too regular 347 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: in occurrence in Syria. So it is is not new, 348 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: and that by no means diminishes the pain that is 349 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 1: happening right now. But I just want to point out 350 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: that this has been a reality in Syria for years, 351 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: and it is a reality that the media did not 352 00:22:55,400 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: hold the previous administration to account on at all. Um. 353 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: In fact, Obama was able to stand idly by after 354 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: a lot of proclamations about how Syria was bad and 355 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: how at one point of sad had to go, and 356 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: then there was the red line, and then there was 357 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: a move of chemical weapons. Uh, the machinery of murder 358 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: continued on unabated in Syria. In fact, it got worse 359 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: and accelerated. And destroying the Islamic state is a part 360 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: of this that has been underway for some time. But 361 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: the expansion of US kinetic military actions in Syria to 362 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: include toppling the Assad regime would come with a lot 363 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: of risks um. But right now, people because they see 364 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: what's going on in Syria, because of the footage and 365 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: the photos, there is an emotional human reaction to this 366 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: that we we must do, we must do something. You 367 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: have Nicky Haley at the United Nations talking about this 368 00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: chemical weapons attack. We are well to pictures two children 369 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: foaming at the mouth, suffering convulsions, being carried in the 370 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: arms of desperate parents. We saw rows of lifeless bodies, 371 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: some still in diapers, some with visible scars of a 372 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: chemical weapons attack. Look at those pictures. Okay, we cannot 373 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 1: close our eyes to those pictures. We not cannot close 374 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: our minds of the responsibility to act. I would like 375 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: to know, and we will find out, I suppose, in 376 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: the days and weeks ahead, what that responsibility entails. Um. 377 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: I I worry sometimes, and we shall see how it, 378 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: how it happens, how it plays out of this administration. 379 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: But that those who have been doing the fighting for 380 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: the United States in Iraq, in Syria, I'm sorry, in Iraq, 381 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan and elsewhere, I I worry that they may 382 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:14,239 Speaker 1: um not have enough of a voice. Sometimes at the 383 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 1: upper reaches of party power, with the Democrats or the Republicans, 384 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 1: it seems to be far too quick a reaction sometimes 385 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,679 Speaker 1: in response to this, to say, well, we should just 386 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: send in, just send in a marine expeditionary force, or 387 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: let's just put more troops in harm's way. Um. Those 388 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 1: who have done the fighting have had experiences, and those 389 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 1: who have been a part of these wars on the 390 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,920 Speaker 1: civilian and military side have experiences that need to be 391 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: much more a part of the of the conversation right now. 392 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 1: At the very top levels then I think they often 393 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: are UM and you have a lot of policy walks 394 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: and people with political influence weighing in on this to say, well, 395 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: we must do something. What exactly are we going to do? 396 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: We've been engaged in air strikes against the Islamic State. 397 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: Do we really want to engage in air strikes against 398 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: the Assad regime? Do we think that the Russians would 399 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: just stand aside and let that happen? Are we going 400 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: to shoot down Russian planes that refuse to abide by 401 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: a declaration that there's a no fly zone over Syria. 402 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: You start to walk down this pathway and it gets 403 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 1: very troubling very quickly. And given the realities of what 404 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,919 Speaker 1: we've seen in Iraq in recent years, given the truth 405 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: of the US effort to rebuild Afghanistan to rebuild Iraq, 406 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 1: I think we've uh had certainly lessons to be learned 407 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: in both cases. UM committing us to rebuilding Syria, which 408 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: is what we would be doing, and if you get 409 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: rid of the Assad regime, understand that there would be 410 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: vicious factions of many different kinds that would all of 411 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: a sudden come to the fore and would want to 412 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 1: take hour in that country. In Iraq you had you 413 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 1: had Shia Sunni Incurred, as well as some other smaller 414 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: ethnic and religious groups, but predominantly Shia Sunni and Curred. 415 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 1: It's been referred to as in Arab Yugoslavia, these different 416 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,880 Speaker 1: groups held together by a strong man, by a tyrannical state, 417 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 1: and then we came in and upended that and had 418 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: to deal with the aftermath and an insurgency and years 419 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 1: of very difficult fighting. In Syria, you have, in many 420 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:38,120 Speaker 1: ways a similar circumstance. You have a Sunni Arab majority population, 421 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 1: you have an Allo white minority sect, which is what 422 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: Assad himself belongs to, and you also have Kurdish elements 423 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: and and others in the country, and various Jihattest and 424 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: Islamist groups stretching from well, maybe they're not that bad 425 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: to their isis there as bad, if not worse than 426 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: I'll kind of and they're just every bit the vicious, bloodthirsty, 427 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 1: g hottest that we've been fighting now for decades. There's 428 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,439 Speaker 1: no way to get rid of Asad without risking a 429 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 1: US military occupation right now, at least nothing that we've 430 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,199 Speaker 1: planned out of Syria. The Obama administration did try to 431 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 1: train soldiers. You will recall that was something that was underway, 432 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: and I think at the end, the end calculation, based 433 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,640 Speaker 1: on what we saw on the papers, was that they 434 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: spent five million dollars to train a few dozen soldiers 435 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: something like that. A lot of money for very little effect. 436 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: This was with regard to the Free Syrian Army to 437 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: create a non a non g hottest ground force to 438 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: topple Asade. Because everyone understands that once you get involved 439 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: in this and you decide that you're going after this regime, 440 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: which by the way, I would still imagine has real 441 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: chemical weapons, uh, and would would go down fighting. I 442 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: don't believe that Assad, given what he's already been willing 443 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: due to his own people, would just quietly walk away 444 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: and say all right, sure, you know, send me to 445 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: the International Criminal Court and let's see what happens. That's 446 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: not going to be the way this plays out. So 447 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: we can hear a lot about this, and I understand 448 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: the emotional impact of what we've seen in the last 449 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: twenty four hours, but I I just wanted to sound 450 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: a note of caution here, because we have an administration 451 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: that does not have a ton of UH foreign policy 452 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: expertise in the decision making ranks. That's just a fact. 453 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: It was true of the administration before it as well, 454 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: But this administration does not have people with a foreign 455 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: policy background. Sure in some of the major foreign policy roles. 456 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: Now you've got Master with the National Security Councils and 457 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: National Security Advisor. You have Madis at the Pentagon, but 458 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: neither the President nor UH, Steve Bannon, nor Kushner. You know, 459 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: you go down the line, there's are not foreign policy 460 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: certainly not national security foreign policy experts by any means. 461 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: And I think that they will take a pause here 462 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: and consult with those who do have deep and long 463 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: stint expertise on these issues. Because I would say this, 464 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: I would not give the order to put US troops 465 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: UH in a position where it was anything other than 466 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: limited special operations and air air and air assistance and 467 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: intelligence help to the Syrian forces that are trying to 468 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: get rid of the Islamic state. And I don't know 469 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: if I would cross the threshold against the Assad regime. 470 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: I just don't think that's going to be a wise move. 471 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: People don't want to hear that right now. They don't 472 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: want to say that right now. Um. But but I 473 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: wouldn't give the order. And I think many of those 474 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: who have had the experience, which few of the opinion class, 475 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: I mean, not none, but not as many as I 476 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: would have liked to see a few of the opinion class, 477 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 1: have had that experience of being on the phone in 478 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: a foreign war zone with you your spouse, or on 479 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: the phone with your kids or your parents, and you 480 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: wonder in the back of your mind if this is 481 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: the last time, because you're gonna go get on a 482 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: chopper or get on a get on a humby and 483 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: you're gonna head out in the red zone. If you've 484 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: never done that, it is an experience that certainly clarifies 485 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: the mind about foreign policy objectives and US military might 486 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: and what we're trying to accomplish in specifically the Middle East, 487 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: but of course in any place where the U. S 488 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: has military in harm's way. Um. And when you've seen 489 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: the risks that others have taken in those situations in 490 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: the war zones, I think it slows down considerably that 491 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: impulse to say, well, let's just go in there and 492 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: fix this because a lot of the people that are 493 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: going to be doing the fixing are well will be 494 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: placed in very grave danger. Uh. And we better be 495 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: darn sure we know what we're trying to achieve. The 496 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: ultimate objective is here. So I understand the emotional appeal, 497 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: and I get it, and I know this is all heavy. 498 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: We're talking about chemical weapons and children dying in the 499 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: streets and assad and this butcher and isis and this 500 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: is all terrible. But this is a continuing legacy of 501 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: the years, the years leading up to this current moment, 502 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: where the US had a much better opportunity at the 503 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: foreign policy level to intervene to do something um and 504 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 1: the caution that was being constantly propped up by the media, 505 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: the caution from the above administration as wisdom, has let 506 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: us down a very ter a very disastrous path here 507 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: in terms of the reality of the grounded Syria. It 508 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: did prevent US troops from losing their lives in Syria, 509 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: and that can't be overlooked here in this process at all. 510 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: That's uh, that's primary goal. But now that we're looking 511 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: at this once more, we are in an even worse 512 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: situation to affect the outcome and I I would hope 513 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 1: that we could take a moment here and realize that 514 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: defeating Ice is sure. We need to continue to do 515 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: that and work with alloys in the ground. You need 516 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: to continue the air campaign, finish up what's going on 517 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: in and around Mosel in Iraq. UM, but charging in 518 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: to stop the slaughter in Syria. We are late on 519 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: that one, and I don't think it would be a 520 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: wise decision at this point to take Syria under our 521 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: protection and control. UM. I would not if I were 522 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: in charge, I would not give the order to have 523 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: American American men and women walking in the streets of 524 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 1: as I said yesterday, Damascus or a Lapo or any 525 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: of these cities or towns trying to provide security for 526 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: the Syrian people. Not because I'm cold hearted, not because 527 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: I don't know what it is for the Syrians and 528 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: before them in my interact with him with the iraqis 529 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: to be terrorized and live through all of this, but 530 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:09,919 Speaker 1: because it can't always be our fight, and unless there's 531 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: a U. S National security objective at play, I am 532 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: I I would not be comfortable telling somebody from this 533 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,840 Speaker 1: country to go risk their life over there, UM without 534 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 1: a clear sense of the objective and what the strategic 535 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 1: what the what the strategic decision making is based on. 536 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: So that's my sense of where we are on Syria. UM. 537 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: Curious to know what you think about this, because right 538 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 1: now we still don't really know where Trump stands on 539 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: foreign intervention and military interactions and military action against tyrannical 540 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 1: Mid East regimes. He said things that made him sound 541 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: of the past, a bit more like Rand Paul, a 542 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:57,320 Speaker 1: bit more of a libertarian side. But now we're hearing 543 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 1: something else, and I wonder, um, I wonder what the 544 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 1: approach will turn out to be. All right, lines are 545 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: open eight four four nine hundred buck eight four to five. 546 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: Michael In in New York? What's up? Michael In? Oh? Yeah, 547 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 1: hi Bluck. How are you doing good? How are you good? Good? Yeah? 548 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: I talked to you before. I don't know if you 549 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: remember me or not. Of course I remember all of 550 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:36,439 Speaker 1: my callers very fondly too, funny. Yeah, No, you're you're 551 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,399 Speaker 1: just saying about this serious stuff and what we thought 552 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 1: Trump would do, and he's going to do something he can. 553 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: He can't let that go, you know, So you think 554 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 1: he'll take some action? Yeah, I mean he might. I 555 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: don't think there'll be a major change in policy. He 556 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: may bomb some stuff, but bombing anything that has to 557 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: do with the Assad regime that would be that would 558 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: be a big change in policy because we have not 559 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 1: gone after USAW. That has not been a part of 560 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 1: the game plan because I think we realized that you 561 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,840 Speaker 1: are kicking a hornet's nest with that. Yeah, but you 562 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 1: know what he's It's gonna have to happen because like 563 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: do you even said how you know how long ago 564 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 1: should have been taken care of and they didn't, and 565 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 1: then all these little kids wouldn't have died and stuff, 566 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: and they're going to have to do something. Just gonna 567 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: have too. They may do something I don't I don't 568 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 1: know what it will be just yet, but I would 569 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 1: have to wonder. I was in Russia and if you 570 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,239 Speaker 1: know a fresh you wants to be, you know, it's 571 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 1: just gonna have to come to that in the world. 572 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 1: Because all right, thanks thanks for calling in Sam and 573 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: North Carolina w p T. I. Hey, how you doing. 574 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: I'm all right? How are you right right? And enjoy 575 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: your should every day. I would appreciate what you do 576 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 1: for our country. How are your service saying what you're 577 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: doing there. Thank you very much. I appreciate that you're welcome. 578 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: I just had a quick comments. I totally agree with 579 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 1: everything you are saying about Syria and how you need 580 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:08,800 Speaker 1: to be extremely careful about committing ground troops and uh yeah, Sam, 581 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 1: you know what. We actually have about ten seconds here, 582 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,439 Speaker 1: so let me we'll hold you through and we'll we'll 583 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: bring your comment on the other side of the break. 584 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,719 Speaker 1: Can you hold with us? Okay, great, all right, Sam, 585 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 1: stay with us. We'll get you on the side. Guys, 586 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,239 Speaker 1: we'll finish up our serious discussion and move on to 587 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,879 Speaker 1: other news of the day, including the latest on Susan Rice, 588 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: North Korea. More he spreads freedom because freedom is not 589 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:36,959 Speaker 1: gonna spread itself, buck sex in his bag. It looks 590 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: like the media did have to talk about the Susan 591 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,760 Speaker 1: Rice story after all. We'll get into that, and also 592 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 1: all of the latest on Trump and the meeting with 593 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:53,240 Speaker 1: Chinese Premier Shijin ping uh, the bellicos and troubling actions 594 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,400 Speaker 1: out of North Korea, Bannon getting moved off the n SC. 595 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: I don't see that as quite as big a story 596 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 1: as a lot of other people do. It. Well, we'll 597 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,319 Speaker 1: get to that and other things. The first I held 598 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 1: the caller through Sam and North Carolina w P T I. 599 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: I want to let you have your say, sir, thanks 600 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: for staying with us. Let me let me tell I 601 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 1: had a couple of quick things. First of all, I 602 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 1: think that this statement that we have been doing nation 603 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: building for years is a misnomer. We've actually been nation 604 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 1: destroying number one. What we've done in the Middle East, 605 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:34,959 Speaker 1: state in areas? What is called of that? Well, Sam, 606 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 1: I the Middle East hasn't been stable ever, really, so 607 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 1: to talk about destabilization is I mean, if we're gonna 608 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 1: get into misnomers, I'm I'm not sure I could I 609 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: could agree with that characterization. And in the case of Afghanistan, 610 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,879 Speaker 1: I mean, the country was already broken by the time 611 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,319 Speaker 1: we got there, and Iraq was operating as a as 612 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,720 Speaker 1: a prison state and concentration camp that was invading neighbors, 613 00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,000 Speaker 1: and you know that there was Let's let's not act 614 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: like we decided to up end things in Switzerland just 615 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: because I agree with you. I mean, I know he 616 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: was a purple leader. I think we could have done 617 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 1: thinks a little better. Let me ask you a question, 618 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,360 Speaker 1: if you ever heard of them prophecy about the twelve 619 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,920 Speaker 1: Kings that they have to fall before the Antichrist Texas. 620 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,880 Speaker 1: I'm sorry that the twelve kings. Yeah, there's there's twelve 621 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,800 Speaker 1: kings that has to fall before the Antichrist takes de feat. No, 622 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 1: I can't say I know. I can't say I know 623 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 1: about this. Sorry, it's pretty interesting. Uh you know, Saddam 624 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: wasn't one of them. Kadati was one of them. Uh, 625 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 1: the the the leader of Egypt was one of them. 626 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,799 Speaker 1: And you know, now we're going after Thad and you 627 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 1: know who's next, the King of Jordan, the king of 628 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia. But it's very interesting topic. Any anything where, 629 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,240 Speaker 1: anything where people get to think about the end of times, 630 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:56,919 Speaker 1: I think it's their attention. But I don't I don't 631 00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 1: know anything about any twelve kids. But thank you for 632 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: calling in, Samon of the EPT, I good to have you. Okay, 633 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 1: So onto some other national security and foreign policy issues 634 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,280 Speaker 1: that are getting some attention here in the news cycle. 635 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,959 Speaker 1: First of all, so Steve Bannon has stepped down, well, 636 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: has been asked, I'm sure to step down as a 637 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: principal on the National Security Council. I don't really understand 638 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,719 Speaker 1: why this is of such great interest except for the 639 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,800 Speaker 1: fact that Bannon is I think it is fair to say, 640 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:35,360 Speaker 1: other than Trump himself, the single most hated by the 641 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 1: left member of this administration. I think that, and in 642 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,160 Speaker 1: some ways they might hate Bannon even more. I don't 643 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,640 Speaker 1: know Steve Bannon, never met him, never interacted with him 644 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:46,400 Speaker 1: at all. I knew he ran Bright Bart and I 645 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 1: was friends with a number of his employees when he 646 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,640 Speaker 1: was running Bright part But I know the left hates 647 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 1: him based on what they write about him, and this 648 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:57,799 Speaker 1: is no surprise to him at all. Um. It is 649 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: one thing to be a policy on who is running 650 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:05,879 Speaker 1: a media empire or running websites and radio and other things, 651 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,720 Speaker 1: But real national security expertise is something that you're gonna 652 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: need if you are at the at the top level 653 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,040 Speaker 1: of the National Security Council, and so I think Bannon 654 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,480 Speaker 1: no longer being at that level makes sense. I've I've 655 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,480 Speaker 1: heard these stories that he was there to keep an 656 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:28,040 Speaker 1: eye on General Flynn. I don't know. Um, the people 657 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,960 Speaker 1: that are making the decisions about that are very few, 658 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 1: and I'm sure that even those with pretty good access 659 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,920 Speaker 1: to that level of decision maker in the Trump administration 660 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:43,520 Speaker 1: is not necessarily getting the full, the whole truth, and 661 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 1: nothing but the truth on those kinds of personnel decisions. 662 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 1: So so I don't know, um, but I do know 663 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:50,880 Speaker 1: that Bannon is not somebody who should have been at 664 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,799 Speaker 1: the principal level of the National Security Council based on 665 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:58,319 Speaker 1: expertise and background. That's that's not where that's not where 666 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:02,120 Speaker 1: he would be a fit. I wonder if General McMaster, 667 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:07,239 Speaker 1: who is considered a scholar general and has a tremendous 668 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:11,879 Speaker 1: reputation in military and intelligence circles, that taking the helm 669 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 1: as National Security Adviser and therefore also corralling and dealing 670 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:21,120 Speaker 1: with on a daily basis the National Security Council. Uh, 671 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,439 Speaker 1: if that led to this, yeah, I think I think 672 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 1: that it did. But what's fastening to me is that 673 00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:29,680 Speaker 1: the criticisms that are leveled against the Trump administration, Well, 674 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 1: first of all, you got to admit that on the 675 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,120 Speaker 1: one hand, you're told he's a fascist, He's going to 676 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 1: become like Hitler, Right, That's what much of the media 677 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 1: has been saying, has been saying for months now, and 678 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,880 Speaker 1: yet a judge disagrees with him in Hawaii and his 679 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,439 Speaker 1: recourses to go back to the courts and to wait, 680 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,799 Speaker 1: and in the meantime, the judge overturns his executive order. Uh, 681 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,000 Speaker 1: the healthcare bill doesn't look like it has the votes, 682 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:57,799 Speaker 1: and so they pull the healthcare bill and they're going 683 00:42:57,840 --> 00:42:59,840 Speaker 1: to move on to something else. All of the che 684 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:04,279 Speaker 1: send balances that we were warned Donald Trump will be 685 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:09,319 Speaker 1: destroying in short order have been checking and balancing the 686 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,920 Speaker 1: executive branch. I think in some cases, uh, unconstitutionally so, 687 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,879 Speaker 1: but there at least there there are checks and balances there. 688 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:20,759 Speaker 1: This is not a runaway presidency with executive orders and 689 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:25,799 Speaker 1: executive action that supersedes anything that anyone's imagination. That's all 690 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,160 Speaker 1: that hyperbole you've been hearing was well, I think it 691 00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:32,440 Speaker 1: wasn't even made in good faith. It was part of 692 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,320 Speaker 1: an effort to create an atmosphere of hysteria where anything 693 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,040 Speaker 1: anti Trump would be viewed as good, anything pro Trump 694 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,319 Speaker 1: would be viewed as bad. And that's currently the circumstance 695 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,919 Speaker 1: in which we find ourselves in this country. But now 696 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 1: that there are some uh, there's some tinkering, there's some reassessment, 697 00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,319 Speaker 1: there's some stepping back and looking at things like who 698 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,319 Speaker 1: should be in the Principles Committee of the who should 699 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:59,160 Speaker 1: be at the principles level of the National Security Council. UH, 700 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,840 Speaker 1: this should be evidence. I would think of Trump operating 701 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,839 Speaker 1: as a commander chief who is learning as he goes 702 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,760 Speaker 1: along as anybody who hasn't been president before. Certainly would 703 00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:13,919 Speaker 1: I wonder how some of the other appointments that he's 704 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,520 Speaker 1: made will play out going forward. I have my questions, 705 00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:21,200 Speaker 1: to be sure, but on Bannon just going back to 706 00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:24,400 Speaker 1: a role as political advisor and not being specifically involved 707 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,120 Speaker 1: in national security matters at the n s C, which 708 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:32,160 Speaker 1: is really a collaboration and a collection of individuals with 709 00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,360 Speaker 1: deep expertise. That's what it's supposed to be, at least generally, 710 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,560 Speaker 1: is UH. People that are working on the Mid East 711 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,279 Speaker 1: or Africa or you name your region or your functional issue. 712 00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:45,600 Speaker 1: They've been doing this for decades. The NFC is supposed 713 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,400 Speaker 1: to be the intellectual powerhouse of any administration when it 714 00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,759 Speaker 1: comes to national security. And if you're going to have 715 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,359 Speaker 1: people that are calling the shots in that body specifically, 716 00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,160 Speaker 1: they really need to have their respect and the buy in, 717 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:03,640 Speaker 1: UH of the rank and file and people in the editor. 718 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,440 Speaker 1: There's the NFC is much bigger than people realize, but 719 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:11,520 Speaker 1: it's still something that functions much like the rest of 720 00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:16,320 Speaker 1: government in a somewhat insular and tribal fashion. At times. 721 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,359 Speaker 1: It's there's a lot of you know, we're the NSC 722 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:20,359 Speaker 1: and there's other people doing other stuff, but we're there. 723 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,319 Speaker 1: We're the real we're the real brain center of this 724 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,239 Speaker 1: uh national security operation. But Bannon stepping down should be 725 00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:33,759 Speaker 1: a cause for um. I would think some degree of Okay, 726 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:39,000 Speaker 1: you know, the Trump administration is making some some intelligent shifts. 727 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,000 Speaker 1: This isn't huge. He's not fired, he's not going away 728 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:42,719 Speaker 1: or anything, but he's not gonna be operating at the 729 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:45,440 Speaker 1: NFC level. But instead, which you see, we told you 730 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:51,040 Speaker 1: so Bannon's so bad, Bannon's doing all this terrible. Well, 731 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:56,359 Speaker 1: they they say that Bannon is a uh white nationalist, 732 00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:58,680 Speaker 1: some of these media or that you know, Breitbart is 733 00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,279 Speaker 1: a white nationalist web side, and there's a lot of 734 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,640 Speaker 1: smears that are out there. Mike Pence by the earlier 735 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:09,520 Speaker 1: today address this, Uh So it's not an emotion for 736 00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,359 Speaker 1: Steve Bannon. Well, not not for Steve, not for Tom. 737 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,879 Speaker 1: These are very highly valued members of this administration are 738 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,719 Speaker 1: going to continue to play important policy roles. But I 739 00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,600 Speaker 1: think with HR McMaster's edition as our national Security Advisor, 740 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:27,040 Speaker 1: a man of extraordinary background military. Uh. This is just 741 00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,920 Speaker 1: a natural evolution to to ensure the National Security Council 742 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:34,839 Speaker 1: is is organized in a way that that that best 743 00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,760 Speaker 1: serves the president. That is the function of the National 744 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,839 Speaker 1: Security Council. By the way, I have spent some time 745 00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,680 Speaker 1: at the NFC, I'm familiar with what they do. Uh. 746 00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,840 Speaker 1: The National Security Council is there to advise the president 747 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:56,200 Speaker 1: obviously on national security matters, but it is functionally an 748 00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,560 Speaker 1: appendage of the White House, right. It's it's there to 749 00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:03,960 Speaker 1: how the decision makers in the White House by bringing 750 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,440 Speaker 1: them the best information and analysis and counsel and advice 751 00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:11,279 Speaker 1: and wisdom they possibly can. So it's think of it 752 00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:15,560 Speaker 1: like the president's personal think tank. That's largely what the 753 00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,440 Speaker 1: NFC is now. It has some more functional rules than that, 754 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,640 Speaker 1: are some more action oriented rules, but it is mostly 755 00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,359 Speaker 1: advisory and it's like a think tank. And that's why 756 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,279 Speaker 1: they bring in people who are academics as well as 757 00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:31,520 Speaker 1: those with government, government and military service. So they're changing 758 00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:35,520 Speaker 1: around the NFC a little bit. It's not some huge deal. 759 00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:39,680 Speaker 1: But oh, Bennon, you see what's going on with Bennon. Uh. 760 00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,640 Speaker 1: He's a figure that looms very large in the minds 761 00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:48,000 Speaker 1: of the terrified and hysterical left. So I do not 762 00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:53,279 Speaker 1: think I do not think that this hearkens uh for, 763 00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:57,359 Speaker 1: or rather this this is a harbinger of anything and 764 00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:59,560 Speaker 1: that we should be concerned about. I think this is good. 765 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:05,359 Speaker 1: So the president and his top advisory circles are evolving 766 00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:10,279 Speaker 1: and they're making some decisions. Um, there should be applause 767 00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,279 Speaker 1: here for what the president has done. I'm not saying 768 00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,239 Speaker 1: it's some great, huge victor or anything. I don't even 769 00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:15,800 Speaker 1: think it's that big a deal. Quite honestly, I was 770 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:17,840 Speaker 1: surprised that so many people in media were spending so 771 00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:19,760 Speaker 1: much time. And I'm done with it after this. Okay, 772 00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,840 Speaker 1: So he's not gonna be National Security Council. Oh, it 773 00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:26,440 Speaker 1: was such a controversy when they were initially reporting on 774 00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,600 Speaker 1: it though. Oh Steve Bannon, Oh, because they hate bright 775 00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:35,040 Speaker 1: parts so much. Um So yeah, McMaster's gonna run things good. 776 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,279 Speaker 1: Smart guy knows what he's doing. Now we have to 777 00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:42,319 Speaker 1: see what they're response on Syria is. But but we've 778 00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,120 Speaker 1: we've talked about Syria. I want to give you my 779 00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:48,759 Speaker 1: sense of where we are on ambassador. I'm sorry, well, 780 00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,560 Speaker 1: I guess she was US Ambassador United Nations, right, um, 781 00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,960 Speaker 1: But where we are on National Security Advisor former National 782 00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:59,000 Speaker 1: Security Advisor Susan Rice. The latest on that. By the way, 783 00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:01,279 Speaker 1: as a head up for what's coming later on in 784 00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,880 Speaker 1: the show, we'll talk about Trump and China and North Korea. 785 00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,759 Speaker 1: Will also get into a that that professor that I 786 00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:13,279 Speaker 1: mentioned from Canada who was shouted down as now the 787 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,480 Speaker 1: progressives like to do in many cases where they just 788 00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,000 Speaker 1: don't want to hear something that bothers them. He was 789 00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:19,839 Speaker 1: also the one who was told by that student if 790 00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,480 Speaker 1: you remember last week, that they wanted to hear his 791 00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:24,799 Speaker 1: thoughts on free speech, but not on the topic that 792 00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,520 Speaker 1: he was talking about. And she said that without irony, 793 00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:29,719 Speaker 1: these are people, and these are college students. Their whole 794 00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,279 Speaker 1: job is to just read books and try to learn 795 00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:37,000 Speaker 1: stuff and and know some stuff. And they missed things 796 00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,279 Speaker 1: that I don't know what the purpose of college is 797 00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,680 Speaker 1: if if people are just going to show up and 798 00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:44,960 Speaker 1: believe it, they never get to hear ideas that they 799 00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,920 Speaker 1: don't like. It's not even just about hate speech, it's 800 00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,120 Speaker 1: now hate speeches tant him out to violence, and therefore 801 00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:53,399 Speaker 1: violence can be used in opposition to hate speech, which 802 00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:55,400 Speaker 1: isn't really hate speech, it just speaks they don't like. 803 00:49:56,560 --> 00:50:00,120 Speaker 1: But we'll have that professor, hopefully, we're assuming we'll have 804 00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:04,280 Speaker 1: him join us in just a little bit. And uh, 805 00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:06,200 Speaker 1: also you if you would like to join by all 806 00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:11,480 Speaker 1: means eight four to eight to five. We've talked about 807 00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:15,920 Speaker 1: the movement of banning from the NSC to just a 808 00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,600 Speaker 1: political advisor senior advisor role a lot about sirius. Don't 809 00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:21,799 Speaker 1: want to hear your thoughts on Syria. Do you think 810 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:25,040 Speaker 1: we should go after Assan? If you think we should 811 00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:28,880 Speaker 1: make moves in that direction, maybe take limited military action 812 00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:31,520 Speaker 1: against the Assad regime as a punitive measure for what 813 00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:36,520 Speaker 1: they did against the civilians in Syria. Keep in mind 814 00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:38,399 Speaker 1: this has been going on for a long time, and 815 00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:43,080 Speaker 1: well you've heard my thoughts on that one. Is this 816 00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:46,480 Speaker 1: for real about Rick Perry? Can somebody can we confirm 817 00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:49,360 Speaker 1: this is this true? I was I was just talking 818 00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:54,560 Speaker 1: about oh gosh, the uh, the trials and tribulations of 819 00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:59,920 Speaker 1: live radio. I was just talking before about the expert 820 00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:05,360 Speaker 1: chiefs needed for the National Security Council and how McMaster 821 00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:06,960 Speaker 1: is gonna be running the show and They've brought in 822 00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,600 Speaker 1: some very good people, and Bannon's gonna do more political stuff. 823 00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:12,360 Speaker 1: But I see, this is this real about Rick? Do 824 00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,279 Speaker 1: we know that we've got multiple reports here that Rick 825 00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,360 Speaker 1: Perry is somehow going to be involved in national security 826 00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:23,919 Speaker 1: making a National Security Council's decision making process. You guys, 827 00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:29,400 Speaker 1: come on, come on. This is Rick Perry of Dancing 828 00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:33,200 Speaker 1: with the Stars fame as well as being a former 829 00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:36,680 Speaker 1: popular governor of the state of Texas. Um on the 830 00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:42,319 Speaker 1: National Security Council. Rick Perry's is a nice man and 831 00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:44,480 Speaker 1: a and a good American and a patriot. And I 832 00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:46,000 Speaker 1: like the guy. I don't know him, but I just 833 00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:48,279 Speaker 1: from what I know of him, I like him. But 834 00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:52,200 Speaker 1: on the NSC um, no, I do not think that. 835 00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,840 Speaker 1: I do not think that is a good move. You 836 00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:56,520 Speaker 1: will notice, by the way, there will be some of 837 00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:58,520 Speaker 1: us who will just tell you what we really think 838 00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,920 Speaker 1: about decisions made by the up administration, and others who 839 00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,200 Speaker 1: will take quite a while before they break away, because 840 00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:07,040 Speaker 1: there's been such a bifurcation between the pro Trump and 841 00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:11,319 Speaker 1: anti Trump crowds that has happened that some just want 842 00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:13,520 Speaker 1: to stay in the safe, warm embrace if oh everything 843 00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:16,400 Speaker 1: Trump does is brilliant and good and he's amazing. I 844 00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:19,600 Speaker 1: take Trump over Hillary a thousand times, uh, you know, 845 00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:24,520 Speaker 1: and and over again. But not everything Trump does is great. 846 00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:26,399 Speaker 1: Not everying Trump does is going to be smart. And 847 00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:29,399 Speaker 1: where he's good, I'll say where he's not, well, say 848 00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:32,360 Speaker 1: the same. And I hope you will too. Speaking of which, 849 00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:37,560 Speaker 1: let's take some of your calls. Chris in Arizona. Ko y, 850 00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:44,279 Speaker 1: good to have you. I'm good, thank you. Um. I 851 00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:46,520 Speaker 1: just want to let you know that I didn't know 852 00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,000 Speaker 1: who you were, and I had listened to your predecessor 853 00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:51,520 Speaker 1: before and I thought i'd give you a chance, and 854 00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,719 Speaker 1: so I how are you doing? Okay, okay, I'll thanks. 855 00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:58,480 Speaker 1: I just want to make a point. Um, I was 856 00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:00,759 Speaker 1: chilling who's voted for Trump, and got a lot of 857 00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:04,359 Speaker 1: flak around me because not everybody that is close to 858 00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:09,760 Speaker 1: me did appreciate his voice. But right now we're being tested. 859 00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:14,279 Speaker 1: They're being tested really, really hard from all areas, and 860 00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:19,560 Speaker 1: I'm really hoping that he takes that chance and puts 861 00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,560 Speaker 1: his moneywere his mouth is and does what he said 862 00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:25,800 Speaker 1: he will do, because if he doesn't do something strong 863 00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,399 Speaker 1: right now, we're in a lot of trouble. What would 864 00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:34,160 Speaker 1: that what would something strong like what what would be 865 00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:38,040 Speaker 1: strong fire missiles off at a sad telling, I mean 866 00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:39,879 Speaker 1: North Korea. You don't want to get into a game 867 00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:43,080 Speaker 1: of chicken with with North Korea. That's a scary, scary situation, 868 00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:45,880 Speaker 1: not just because of the nukes, but also just because 869 00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:50,320 Speaker 1: of the artillery range of UH in North Korea to 870 00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:53,839 Speaker 1: South Korea. So that's that's a big issue. But all right, Chris, 871 00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:55,960 Speaker 1: well you want strong action. We'll see what Trump does. 872 00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:59,600 Speaker 1: I'm guessing, um, there will be almost nothing in response 873 00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:01,840 Speaker 1: to what we've seen in Syria. That's my that's my 874 00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,600 Speaker 1: US Mike analysis at this point. We'll see if that changes. 875 00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:10,240 Speaker 1: John in Nevada on the I Heart Apple's Up. John, Hey, 876 00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:13,160 Speaker 1: I was in the Middle East station there for a 877 00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:16,680 Speaker 1: long time in the seventies and it really hasn't changed much. 878 00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:19,080 Speaker 1: And we had come to the conclusion the best you 879 00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,959 Speaker 1: can hope for is a bed dictator or king. You'll 880 00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,360 Speaker 1: never have democracy because of Sharia law doesn't allow it. 881 00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:29,600 Speaker 1: And what they're trying to end for us going into 882 00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:33,960 Speaker 1: Syria now, the assad reshime maybe, in my opinion, and 883 00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:37,480 Speaker 1: I am an expert, but I am dated, UH is 884 00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,440 Speaker 1: probably the best you can hope for. If we had 885 00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,640 Speaker 1: back to Sad in the beginning, a million people be alive. 886 00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:47,440 Speaker 1: If we get back to Sad, that's then we're then 887 00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:51,799 Speaker 1: we are complicit with a tyrant. But hey, we've we've 888 00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:54,200 Speaker 1: backed some pretty nasty people before. It wouldn't be the 889 00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:58,120 Speaker 1: first time. Hyants, But he's a he's more of a 890 00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:00,759 Speaker 1: benevolent tyrant. When all the christian As we're kicked out 891 00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:03,560 Speaker 1: of Iraq, where did they go? They went to Syria, 892 00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:08,800 Speaker 1: to Assad and they've been killed everywhere else. The I 893 00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:11,880 Speaker 1: worked with the various Christian churches that were in the 894 00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,800 Speaker 1: Muslim lands at that time, back in the seventies, and 895 00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:17,400 Speaker 1: it was a vibrant There are more than ten millions, 896 00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:21,440 Speaker 1: oh more than ten million Christians at that time. Now 897 00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:25,719 Speaker 1: it's it's gone down to some countries virtually as zero. Well, 898 00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:28,360 Speaker 1: the Christian extermination that has occurred in Iraq is one 899 00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:31,839 Speaker 1: of the most underreported stories of the last decade. It's 900 00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,080 Speaker 1: they're just they're just gone. I mean they've just been 901 00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:37,919 Speaker 1: driven out, mostly under threat of violence because of what's 902 00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:41,120 Speaker 1: happened in that country. And uh, it barely gets a 903 00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,040 Speaker 1: news mentioned in the past. I'm thinking of some specific 904 00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:47,720 Speaker 1: incidents that happened there with you know, church churches bombed 905 00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:51,600 Speaker 1: or or burned to the ground, members of the clergy murdered. 906 00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:55,719 Speaker 1: It's just somehow gets swept under the rug that there 907 00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:59,520 Speaker 1: has been an anti Christian, anti Christian genocide going on 908 00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,960 Speaker 1: in Iraq for quite a while now. So it's it 909 00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:05,480 Speaker 1: is very troubling, and I don't think it gets nearly 910 00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:08,759 Speaker 1: enough media coverage. There were there were concerns I know 911 00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:10,920 Speaker 1: among some journalists for a while. Think about this for 912 00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:13,879 Speaker 1: a second, John, that they didn't want to single out 913 00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:18,920 Speaker 1: Christians and their persecution because it would seem like the 914 00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,960 Speaker 1: crusader narrative of us picking our favorites would be true. 915 00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, but they are being singled out and and 916 00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:28,440 Speaker 1: and murdered and exterminated more so than the average Iraqi. 917 00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:30,960 Speaker 1: They're like, oh, no, Iraq is suffering so much, we 918 00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:34,520 Speaker 1: can't pick favorites among the suffering. This I heard. I've 919 00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:37,719 Speaker 1: heard journalists talk about this, So it's astonishing anyway, that's 920 00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:39,400 Speaker 1: the reality of it. But John, thanks for calling in 921 00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:41,960 Speaker 1: on the I heart app good to have you. Uh 922 00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:44,759 Speaker 1: eight four or four n eight to five. We're gonna 923 00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:48,239 Speaker 1: talk some politics here let's switch it up, kind of 924 00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:50,239 Speaker 1: loosening up and lightening up a little bit, especially going 925 00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:52,680 Speaker 1: into the third hour, although eventually we'll talk about North Korea, 926 00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:54,480 Speaker 1: which is super intense. But that's the end of the show. 927 00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:56,920 Speaker 1: So hang out with me for a while. We'll get 928 00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:59,399 Speaker 1: into some other stuff and uh, I'll be right back 929 00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:07,640 Speaker 1: blug Sexton with America. Now, the Freedom Hut is fired 930 00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:12,000 Speaker 1: up as Team Buck assembles shouldered as shoulder shields high 931 00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:16,480 Speaker 1: call in eight four four nine Buck, that's eight four 932 00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:20,440 Speaker 1: four nine two eight to five. Seeing a lot of 933 00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:24,040 Speaker 1: headlines that suggests that something is supposed to be done 934 00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:28,760 Speaker 1: by the Congress, by this administration and response to the 935 00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:33,440 Speaker 1: Assyrian government's usage of chemical weapons. I suppose it's alleged 936 00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:34,919 Speaker 1: at this point, although I don't know who else would 937 00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:38,520 Speaker 1: have used it, uh usage of chemical weapons against civilians. 938 00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:41,040 Speaker 1: There are some who get into this whole conspiracy. The 939 00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:43,840 Speaker 1: Russians pretend that maybe it was the rebels as a 940 00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:48,120 Speaker 1: false flag against the Syrian government, Um the Russians. The 941 00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:51,520 Speaker 1: Russian government continues to debase itself, if that's even possible. 942 00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:55,760 Speaker 1: But Centator Cotton says that assad is I'm just saying 943 00:57:55,840 --> 00:58:00,240 Speaker 1: this assad is in power is not an option. And 944 00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:03,439 Speaker 1: also NICKI Haley says they will take action against Syria, 945 00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:07,320 Speaker 1: by which I assume she means the Syrian regime. So 946 00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,800 Speaker 1: we will have to see. Um, I am doubtful that 947 00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,000 Speaker 1: we'll take a lot of action against ice as shore, 948 00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:16,000 Speaker 1: but not the Syrian regime. But I said we'd move 949 00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:17,640 Speaker 1: on to politics, and I want to do that, and 950 00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:21,680 Speaker 1: to help us with that transition, we have Sarah Westwood 951 00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:25,520 Speaker 1: on the line. She is the White House correspondent for 952 00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:29,200 Speaker 1: the Washington Examiner. Sarah, thank you for calling it. Thanks 953 00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:31,919 Speaker 1: having me first. I mean, I do want to ask 954 00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:35,360 Speaker 1: what is the tone you are hearing from folks in 955 00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:40,360 Speaker 1: and around the White House. Obviously it's solomon and grave 956 00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:42,720 Speaker 1: and very serious in response to what happened in Syria. 957 00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:45,160 Speaker 1: But do you get the sense that there really is 958 00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:49,600 Speaker 1: a consensus about action in response to this or do 959 00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:53,880 Speaker 1: you think this may pass away, pass out of sight 960 00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:57,800 Speaker 1: with the news cycle. Well, action would mark a departure 961 00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:00,920 Speaker 1: from what President Trump ran on and what the administration 962 00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:05,360 Speaker 1: was putting out when Trump first came into office. I mean, 963 00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:08,760 Speaker 1: keep in mind that President Trump was critical of US 964 00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:11,720 Speaker 1: entanglement in the Middle East. He said that it's not 965 00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:14,160 Speaker 1: going to be America's job to go in and remove 966 00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:17,280 Speaker 1: dictators anymore. And Syria was an example of where the 967 00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:21,480 Speaker 1: administration had said just weeks earlier that they thought it 968 00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:25,520 Speaker 1: was unrealistic to expect regime changed to be an option 969 00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:28,280 Speaker 1: in Syria. Now that this chemical attack has happened at 970 00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:32,480 Speaker 1: the first real test of the foreign policy vision that 971 00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,520 Speaker 1: Trump had laid out, and it seems like President Trump 972 00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:39,040 Speaker 1: is being pushed together way to take action Interior. Like 973 00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:42,360 Speaker 1: you mentioned, we're hearing from this Ambassador to the UN, 974 00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:46,080 Speaker 1: NICKI Haley, that action is on the table. Today in 975 00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:50,400 Speaker 1: the Rose Garden, President Trump said that he was really 976 00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:53,600 Speaker 1: disturbed by what he saw, that that it changed him, 977 00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:57,240 Speaker 1: and that he was uh considering taking action. So this 978 00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:01,160 Speaker 1: is actually marking a shift away from the Trump administration 979 01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:03,960 Speaker 1: has previously said they were going to do. I I 980 01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:07,680 Speaker 1: don't think. I just don't see a change a major 981 01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:11,560 Speaker 1: change in policy. Getting rid of the Assaud regime brings 982 01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:15,720 Speaker 1: a tremendous set of risks and challenges for any administration. 983 01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:18,720 Speaker 1: It might have been easier some years ago. I think 984 01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:20,520 Speaker 1: that Trump will look at the options and say, well, 985 01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:22,920 Speaker 1: we're not going to do that. But that's that is 986 01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:25,800 Speaker 1: certainly subject to Uh, well, we'll see what happens. But 987 01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:29,160 Speaker 1: let's get onto politics here for a second. Domestic politics, 988 01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:32,880 Speaker 1: that is, the White House was saying or or I 989 01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:35,720 Speaker 1: saw last night that they had some back and forth 990 01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:41,920 Speaker 1: over a new effort at an Obamacare replacement bill. Now 991 01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:44,640 Speaker 1: I'm hearing maybe not so much. Where does that stand? 992 01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:47,360 Speaker 1: Where where are we on healthcare with this GOP Congress 993 01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:51,120 Speaker 1: and the Trump White House? So they are up and 994 01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:54,120 Speaker 1: down in the Trump administration on the House. It's really 995 01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:56,920 Speaker 1: hard to are they stand at any given moment, because 996 01:00:57,080 --> 01:01:00,680 Speaker 1: when the talks first collapsed in March US when Speaker 997 01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:04,280 Speaker 1: Ryan pulled the bill, both Trump and Speaker Ryan said, 998 01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:07,920 Speaker 1: we're not going to touch this until Obamacare collapses. We're 999 01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:10,720 Speaker 1: going to move on to tax reform. But then behind 1000 01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:13,480 Speaker 1: the scenes, we had the movement. We had the talk 1001 01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:17,320 Speaker 1: starting up quietly between members of the House Freedom Caucus 1002 01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:22,360 Speaker 1: senior members of the Trump administration, and starting Tuesday morning, 1003 01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:24,760 Speaker 1: it was looking more and more like we might see 1004 01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:27,280 Speaker 1: a text of the bill before members of Congress leaves 1005 01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:29,800 Speaker 1: for their two week Easter recess, which starts on Friday. 1006 01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:33,640 Speaker 1: But then late last night, Vice President Pence was on 1007 01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:36,520 Speaker 1: the Hill. He was meeting with both moderate members and 1008 01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:39,160 Speaker 1: conservative members. They were trying to get a deal together, 1009 01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:43,280 Speaker 1: and it seems like, uh, the conservative members of the 1010 01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:47,200 Speaker 1: House were again dissatisfied with what was put forward because 1011 01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:50,080 Speaker 1: it went it did not go nearly as far as 1012 01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:52,800 Speaker 1: what they thought the Trump administration was promising them this 1013 01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:56,400 Speaker 1: time around. So again the health care talks seemed to 1014 01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,920 Speaker 1: be at a standstill. There's some rumblings I think right 1015 01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:03,480 Speaker 1: now Speaker Ryan and Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy are actually 1016 01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:06,600 Speaker 1: at the White House, but it doesn't seem likely that 1017 01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:08,640 Speaker 1: they're going to get a bill before they leave Washington 1018 01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:11,120 Speaker 1: on Friday. Do you have any sense have you heard 1019 01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:14,920 Speaker 1: of what some of the concessions where some of the 1020 01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:17,560 Speaker 1: efforts were to get this thing to a place where 1021 01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:19,760 Speaker 1: the Freedom Caucus and others might be willing to go 1022 01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:21,560 Speaker 1: forward with it, or is it still just too early 1023 01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:25,560 Speaker 1: to even know well. The the Freedom Caucus members were 1024 01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:28,480 Speaker 1: upset that all of the Title one insurance regulations were 1025 01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:32,200 Speaker 1: left intact by the original Republican bill, and so they 1026 01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:36,720 Speaker 1: had negotiated down to wanting just two of those insurance 1027 01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:40,440 Speaker 1: regulations changed. One was the Essential health care Benefits that 1028 01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:43,240 Speaker 1: featured prominently in the first set of talks, meaning that 1029 01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:46,240 Speaker 1: every single insurance plan doesn't have to cover every single 1030 01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:49,520 Speaker 1: UH condition. If you're a man, you won't have to 1031 01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:53,000 Speaker 1: buy a plan that also covers maternity leave under the 1032 01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:56,600 Speaker 1: new Republican plan. And the second thing they wanted to 1033 01:02:56,680 --> 01:03:00,640 Speaker 1: change with community ratings. This is the regulation that mandates 1034 01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:04,720 Speaker 1: that an insurance company can't raise prices for six people 1035 01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:07,600 Speaker 1: without also raising them for healthy people. So these two 1036 01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:10,560 Speaker 1: insurance regulations, that's what was on the table, and the 1037 01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:13,360 Speaker 1: deal that was taking shape yesterday that does seem to 1038 01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:16,240 Speaker 1: have fallen through would have allowed state to apply for 1039 01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:20,360 Speaker 1: waivers to exempt themselves from those regulations, but it would 1040 01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:23,040 Speaker 1: have been would not have been automatic cuts. But I 1041 01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:26,480 Speaker 1: think what was then presented to the House Freedom Caucus, UH, 1042 01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:29,720 Speaker 1: it didn't allow those waivers to be applied for. It 1043 01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:31,920 Speaker 1: obtained as easily as they thought, and so it was 1044 01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:34,880 Speaker 1: essentially in their minds leaving those regulations intact, and so 1045 01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:38,360 Speaker 1: they didn't go for the second deal. UH. They really 1046 01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:40,440 Speaker 1: need to come up with something better after this recess 1047 01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:44,240 Speaker 1: because so far, not a lot to cheer about with 1048 01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:48,120 Speaker 1: this new GOP Congress. By the way, what's the latest 1049 01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:52,280 Speaker 1: on the GORCTS fight the denomination there, I know that 1050 01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:55,600 Speaker 1: Democrats have vowed the filibuster. Where are we can you 1051 01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:59,439 Speaker 1: give us something on that it looks like no matter 1052 01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:03,040 Speaker 1: what happens uh Gore, such as going to be confirmed 1053 01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:05,320 Speaker 1: on Friday, one way or another, whether that means that 1054 01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:08,320 Speaker 1: Republicans are going to invoke the nuclear option, which is 1055 01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:10,560 Speaker 1: looking more and more likely, or whether it means Democrats 1056 01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:13,040 Speaker 1: are going to reach some kind of deal that would 1057 01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:16,400 Speaker 1: allow them to avoid a filibuster. But enough Democrats have 1058 01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:20,560 Speaker 1: said no, uh no to Gore such that it looks 1059 01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:23,080 Speaker 1: more and more likely that Republicans are going to have 1060 01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:27,880 Speaker 1: to eliminate the filibuster for Supreme Court nominations because they're 1061 01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:30,040 Speaker 1: not going to be able to meet that sixty vote 1062 01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:33,800 Speaker 1: threshold for closure to get UH to advanced courses. So 1063 01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:36,160 Speaker 1: so you're not hearing any rumblings about a last minute 1064 01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:38,240 Speaker 1: deal with the Democrats in the Senate to try to 1065 01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:41,960 Speaker 1: avoid that, because strategically, I've thought, and others have come 1066 01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:44,240 Speaker 1: on the show, it just doesn't make sense for the 1067 01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:47,880 Speaker 1: Democrats to force it this time. It doesn't make sense, 1068 01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:51,640 Speaker 1: I mean, because this isn't Judge Neil Gorsuch is more 1069 01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:56,200 Speaker 1: or less a consensus pick. He's uh centrist, he's a conservative, 1070 01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:58,800 Speaker 1: but he's a constitutional as He's someone that under any 1071 01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:02,200 Speaker 1: other Republican admit illustration, would have passed with flying colors 1072 01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:05,280 Speaker 1: through this process. But because it's the Trump administration, Democrats 1073 01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:09,120 Speaker 1: feel obligated to say no. But the base, the Democratic base, 1074 01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:11,560 Speaker 1: is so riled up that I think Democrats feel like 1075 01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:14,480 Speaker 1: they have to obstruct President Trump at any cost. And 1076 01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:17,520 Speaker 1: they might regret this down the road. Uh, what if 1077 01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:20,680 Speaker 1: there's another vacancy during Trump's presidency and that's that's a 1078 01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:25,400 Speaker 1: definite possibility, just like they regretted uh nuking the filibuster 1079 01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:28,400 Speaker 1: for other appointments. Look at how easily President Trump was 1080 01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:31,720 Speaker 1: able to install his cabinet despite Democratic opposition. That was 1081 01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:35,920 Speaker 1: because of what uh Harry Reid did with the nuclear option. 1082 01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:40,360 Speaker 1: The same situation is repeating itself with the Supreme Court nomination. 1083 01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:47,760 Speaker 1: And on to Susan Rice yesterday. Obviously this was dominating 1084 01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:50,720 Speaker 1: the headlines everywhere a lot of back and forth between 1085 01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:54,040 Speaker 1: journalists and others on social media about this, and there 1086 01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:58,320 Speaker 1: were calls for her to testify. Is are those calls 1087 01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:00,360 Speaker 1: getting louder? Are we going to see Sue and Rice 1088 01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:04,280 Speaker 1: call before the House for the Senate Intelligence Committee. It's 1089 01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:06,919 Speaker 1: entirely possible. I mean, even ranking membership on the House 1090 01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:10,800 Speaker 1: Intelligence Committee, the top Democrats said it's a possibility. And 1091 01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:13,200 Speaker 1: I think that Democrats understand that if they want to 1092 01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:17,560 Speaker 1: call litany of UH Trump associates before the committee, they're 1093 01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:21,120 Speaker 1: going to have to allow some of the Republican requested 1094 01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:24,919 Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward. So if Republicans do request Susan Rice, 1095 01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:27,440 Speaker 1: I don't see how Democrats on the committee could object 1096 01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:32,960 Speaker 1: to that. Particularly, we're learning more and more about how 1097 01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:37,200 Speaker 1: these unmasking is potentially deviated from the procedure that usually 1098 01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:41,360 Speaker 1: accompanies unmasking the identity of Americans swept up an incidental collection. 1099 01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:43,040 Speaker 1: So there's a whole lot at play here. But I 1100 01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:46,960 Speaker 1: think UH Democrats, if they're going to continue to argue 1101 01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:50,680 Speaker 1: that nothing improper took place here, then they have no 1102 01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:55,120 Speaker 1: choice but to invite Susan Race forward to say that 1103 01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:58,959 Speaker 1: in front of the committee. Sarah Westwood is White House 1104 01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:01,880 Speaker 1: correspondent for or The Washington Examiner. You can read her 1105 01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:04,920 Speaker 1: latest on Washington Examiner dot com. Sarah, thanks so much 1106 01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:08,800 Speaker 1: for giving us a Ring, thank you on the Susan 1107 01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:11,440 Speaker 1: Rice issue. By the way, if I may for a 1108 01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:15,160 Speaker 1: moment here um, it would seem to me that if 1109 01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:20,000 Speaker 1: you were to tally up the evidence for some kind 1110 01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:25,880 Speaker 1: of foul play within the government against the Trump administration, 1111 01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:29,240 Speaker 1: and then on the other side tally up the Trump 1112 01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:34,120 Speaker 1: was working with Russia to quote hack the election, which 1113 01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:36,280 Speaker 1: I have to command. By the way, the and cultural 1114 01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:40,200 Speaker 1: piece today that the piece she wrote is a very 1115 01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:46,480 Speaker 1: very end and like screed in the best way against 1116 01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:50,040 Speaker 1: this notion that this was something that would be easy 1117 01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:53,160 Speaker 1: for Russia to do either that that this is I mean, 1118 01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:55,440 Speaker 1: I said this. I was on Andrew will cow who's 1119 01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:57,680 Speaker 1: a who's a good friend of mine and a great guy. 1120 01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:00,880 Speaker 1: I was on his radio show on Sirius X earlier today. 1121 01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:02,800 Speaker 1: I said, you know that we're talking about elections of 1122 01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:05,880 Speaker 1: people are spending billions of dollars in this country to 1123 01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:09,040 Speaker 1: steer the outcome home where the other the big plan 1124 01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:11,920 Speaker 1: here was to get into the d n C s 1125 01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:14,320 Speaker 1: emails to show the d n C was unfair to Burnie. 1126 01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:17,400 Speaker 1: We all knew the d n C was unfair to Burnie. 1127 01:08:18,280 --> 01:08:21,479 Speaker 1: Anybody who's paying attention, remember all the superdelic. They kept showing, well, 1128 01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:23,160 Speaker 1: the race is getting closer, and Bernie's like, you know, 1129 01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:25,479 Speaker 1: we're gonna have a political revolution and we're gonna take 1130 01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:27,360 Speaker 1: over in this country and it's gonna beig it's gonna 1131 01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:30,680 Speaker 1: be amazing, free healthcare, free college, boo y'all, baby, I 1132 01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:32,519 Speaker 1: mean the whole thing, right, it was all gonna work. 1133 01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:36,880 Speaker 1: And then you'd see Bernie was getting closer, and but 1134 01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:39,519 Speaker 1: the super delegates who just get to decide, they were 1135 01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:44,040 Speaker 1: all for Hillary. Pretty much. Well what is that all about? Well, 1136 01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:46,640 Speaker 1: what's the purpose of having these primaries and caucuses if 1137 01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:49,800 Speaker 1: the super delegates are all gonna go for Hillary. Uh. 1138 01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:53,599 Speaker 1: The system was also skewed towards Hillary because that's where 1139 01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:58,120 Speaker 1: the Democrat establishment had made its bed. That's what the 1140 01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:02,280 Speaker 1: bet was going to be. And it's not surprising you. 1141 01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:05,960 Speaker 1: One of my favorite pastimes actually over at CNN when 1142 01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:09,760 Speaker 1: I was a commentator over there, was they occasionally they 1143 01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:12,679 Speaker 1: let me talk during demo after a Democrat town hall, 1144 01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:14,320 Speaker 1: and I just said, They're be like, well, I mean, 1145 01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:16,280 Speaker 1: Bernie at least says what he thinks, it is authentic. 1146 01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:20,000 Speaker 1: Hillary's positions are for sale and change all the time, 1147 01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:27,240 Speaker 1: and she's just utterly without any ethical compass or ideology 1148 01:09:27,320 --> 01:09:31,720 Speaker 1: based in principle. You know, Bernie's ideology would destroy this 1149 01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:35,000 Speaker 1: country economically and otherwise. But at least it's an ideology. 1150 01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:37,600 Speaker 1: I mean, say what you will about Bernie Sander socialism, 1151 01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:42,599 Speaker 1: at least it's an ideology. Hillary is just the classic 1152 01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:47,960 Speaker 1: left wing pseudo populist who's actually a cronyist in the 1153 01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:53,240 Speaker 1: pockets of all of the different special interests that combined 1154 01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:57,640 Speaker 1: together to be the Democratic Party. Uh, but this was 1155 01:09:57,680 --> 01:10:00,200 Speaker 1: not new, and that's that's how you're go to win 1156 01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:02,640 Speaker 1: the election by showing that that the d n C 1157 01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:07,559 Speaker 1: was unfair to Bernie. Really, does anyone was there anything else? 1158 01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:09,360 Speaker 1: Did I miss something? What was in the Podesta and 1159 01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:11,519 Speaker 1: d n C emails that was such a such a 1160 01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:15,600 Speaker 1: game changer that there was stuff? I mean, find me 1161 01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:19,599 Speaker 1: one Democrat who's or sorry, find me one voter who 1162 01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:21,160 Speaker 1: was like, well, I was gonna vote for Hillary, but 1163 01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:23,360 Speaker 1: ever since I saw the Podesta email, you know then 1164 01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:27,920 Speaker 1: I really it's just nonsense. But back to the original premise, 1165 01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:29,360 Speaker 1: if you were to look at one side look at 1166 01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:34,800 Speaker 1: the other, the Susan Rice explanation yesterday just doesn't really 1167 01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:39,559 Speaker 1: add up, and that all of a sudden we're being told, oh, well, 1168 01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:45,200 Speaker 1: it's not illegal what she did. Well, a few days 1169 01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:47,479 Speaker 1: ago it was she didn't know anything and nothing had 1170 01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:51,000 Speaker 1: been done. Now it's that it's not illegal. That's a change. 1171 01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:53,840 Speaker 1: That's a change that's worth paying some attention too. And 1172 01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:55,320 Speaker 1: we might talk a little more about the Susan Right 1173 01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:57,720 Speaker 1: situation in the next hour. But I want to hit 1174 01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:02,040 Speaker 1: a break here and we come back. Pepsi Gate. If 1175 01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:03,160 Speaker 1: that's a thing. I don't know, If that's a thing, 1176 01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:05,160 Speaker 1: we'll make it a thing. We'll talk about this. Yeah, 1177 01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:07,720 Speaker 1: I know you're like Pepsi buck. Really I don't. I 1178 01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:10,519 Speaker 1: don't drink soda. I'll have, you know, occasionally ginger ale 1179 01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:12,439 Speaker 1: if I feel like really stretching my legs and being 1180 01:11:12,479 --> 01:11:16,920 Speaker 1: a wild man. But yeah, Pepsi we'll talk about this 1181 01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:19,160 Speaker 1: commercial because it has to do with social justice warriors 1182 01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:21,880 Speaker 1: and there there's don't worry, it'll matter. I'll make it matter. 1183 01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:42,720 Speaker 1: What you're hearing right now is from the now infamous 1184 01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:49,360 Speaker 1: Pepsi ad that was pulled with Kendall Jenner starring in it, 1185 01:11:50,120 --> 01:11:54,400 Speaker 1: and it shows it shows that there's some kind of 1186 01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:59,720 Speaker 1: a protest underway, but the protest is that the protesters 1187 01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:04,080 Speaker 1: are of diverse backgrounds and they're holding up signs that 1188 01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:07,559 Speaker 1: say things like joined the conversation. So it's just blend 1189 01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:13,439 Speaker 1: general activism not clear who is, you know, it's just 1190 01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:17,960 Speaker 1: like protesters. And you've got Kendall Jenner who's stars in 1191 01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:20,080 Speaker 1: this ad, who is in the middle of like a 1192 01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:23,800 Speaker 1: modeling shoot in the ad, and then she sees a 1193 01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:26,080 Speaker 1: pepsi or something and she hands a pepsi to the police, 1194 01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:27,880 Speaker 1: and like pepsi is supposed to bring because the police 1195 01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:31,200 Speaker 1: are watching the protesters and pepsi brings everything together. It's 1196 01:12:32,320 --> 01:12:36,519 Speaker 1: obviously they're trying to appeal to the millennials, you know, 1197 01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:38,760 Speaker 1: which I'm just I've just aged out of being a 1198 01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:42,000 Speaker 1: millennial now. But um, they're trying to appeal to the millennials, 1199 01:12:42,080 --> 01:12:44,920 Speaker 1: you know, also known as young people with this ad, 1200 01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:49,000 Speaker 1: and they want all these twenties, twenty and early thirty 1201 01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:52,240 Speaker 1: some things that believe that protest movements and all this 1202 01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:59,240 Speaker 1: progressive hashtag activism is somehow tied to pepsi drinking, right, 1203 01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:01,240 Speaker 1: I mean you know that basically the cool the cool 1204 01:13:01,320 --> 01:13:05,040 Speaker 1: kids drink pepsi. I saw this ad. I thought of myself, 1205 01:13:05,080 --> 01:13:06,960 Speaker 1: because there's so I mean, it's if you go on 1206 01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:10,760 Speaker 1: social media. All the Pepsi at the New York Times 1207 01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:13,960 Speaker 1: has a piece here Pepsi pulls ad accused of trivializing 1208 01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:19,040 Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter. Nowhere in this ad was there any 1209 01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:23,040 Speaker 1: mention of Black Lives Matter. Was there any imagery that 1210 01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:26,560 Speaker 1: one would necessarily associate with Black Lives Matter. But in 1211 01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:30,680 Speaker 1: the minds of progressive activists, black Lives Matter is the 1212 01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:35,080 Speaker 1: most potent protest movement that they currently have under way, 1213 01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:40,240 Speaker 1: and so they immediately associate this with that, and it 1214 01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:42,640 Speaker 1: trivializes it. Even though the ad, by the way, was 1215 01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:45,800 Speaker 1: very like bring everyone together. It was, like I said, 1216 01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:51,240 Speaker 1: very diverse, harmless, playing some groovy tunes. I I I 1217 01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:53,800 Speaker 1: kind of liked it. I thought it was fine. It 1218 01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:57,840 Speaker 1: was frivolous, but it's a soft drink ad everybody who cares. 1219 01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:02,000 Speaker 1: Of course it's frivolous. It's for Pepsi, the second best 1220 01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:06,280 Speaker 1: version of Cola that has mass produced. So just kidding. 1221 01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:08,960 Speaker 1: If Pepsi wants to, you know, I don't know which whichever, 1222 01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:11,120 Speaker 1: whichever one wants to advertise in the show. I'm kidding. 1223 01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:12,560 Speaker 1: I'm kidding. I don't want to be like minutration. I 1224 01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:16,080 Speaker 1: have to apologize for, you know, pushing one sponsor another 1225 01:14:16,240 --> 01:14:18,640 Speaker 1: like that. Um, I'm not in governments. I don't think 1226 01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:22,360 Speaker 1: the same ethics rules apply. Nonetheless, what you see here 1227 01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:24,160 Speaker 1: is what I've told you before. Then when I've said 1228 01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:27,640 Speaker 1: that the left has killed comedy, they are utterly humorless 1229 01:14:27,800 --> 01:14:30,879 Speaker 1: about things. And they also, and this is very important 1230 01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:34,240 Speaker 1: there there is a message from the outrage at this 1231 01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:41,720 Speaker 1: bland and just a largely saccharin who cares pepsi ad, 1232 01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:48,400 Speaker 1: and that is that the left is largely when you're 1233 01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:51,480 Speaker 1: talking about the progressive activists out there, they are joyless, 1234 01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:55,719 Speaker 1: they are humorless, and it is not about bringing people together. 1235 01:14:56,160 --> 01:14:59,920 Speaker 1: It is not about inspiring people to be happy or 1236 01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:05,439 Speaker 1: and be better. It's about anger. It's about virtue signaling 1237 01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:11,840 Speaker 1: and separating certain groups from a perceived enemy. It's very 1238 01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:15,120 Speaker 1: o Lynsky. I remember o Lynsky in Rules for Radicals. 1239 01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:18,280 Speaker 1: Once you organize people around something has commonly agreed upon 1240 01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:21,320 Speaker 1: as pollution, then an organized people is on the move. 1241 01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:24,400 Speaker 1: From there, it's a short and natural step to political pollution, 1242 01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:28,120 Speaker 1: to pentagon pollution. End of quote. Just about getting people 1243 01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:30,040 Speaker 1: riled up and fired up and then using them for 1244 01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:33,240 Speaker 1: your own purposes and Pepsi by being all nice and 1245 01:15:33,320 --> 01:15:35,680 Speaker 1: happy and full of hugs. Ran a foul of the 1246 01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:42,519 Speaker 1: social justice Warriors. He's an x CIA officer who knows 1247 01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:45,600 Speaker 1: how to outsmart the enemies of liberty. What I do 1248 01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:51,640 Speaker 1: have very particular set of skills. Buck Sexton with America 1249 01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:55,360 Speaker 1: Now team your mission, should you choose to accept it, 1250 01:15:55,680 --> 01:16:00,919 Speaker 1: call the Freedom Hunt Operations Center d Buck make contact 1251 01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:08,760 Speaker 1: unless you're under hostile surveillance to eight to five. All right. 1252 01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:12,680 Speaker 1: See we're joined out by Dr Jordan Peterson. He's a 1253 01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:15,400 Speaker 1: professor of psychology at the University of Toronto and a 1254 01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:19,080 Speaker 1: clinical psychologist. He has an upcoming speech at Harvard mask 1255 01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:24,839 Speaker 1: of Compassion, Postmodernism and Neo Marxism in modern Times. Dr Peterson, 1256 01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:27,840 Speaker 1: thank you for calling in, Thank you, thank you for 1257 01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:29,680 Speaker 1: having you so please give us a little bit of 1258 01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:35,320 Speaker 1: the back story here. I saw you up at university 1259 01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:38,519 Speaker 1: in Canada trying to give a speech, and you were 1260 01:16:39,439 --> 01:16:42,080 Speaker 1: not shouted down, but that doesn't even really cover it. 1261 01:16:42,120 --> 01:16:45,200 Speaker 1: You had people blowing air horns in your face, throwing 1262 01:16:45,280 --> 01:16:49,160 Speaker 1: glitter at you, screaming over you. What was going on there? 1263 01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:52,560 Speaker 1: And what were you there to talk about? Well, I 1264 01:16:52,680 --> 01:16:55,040 Speaker 1: was there to talk about the same sorts of things 1265 01:16:55,080 --> 01:16:56,920 Speaker 1: that I'm going to be talking about at Harvard, about 1266 01:16:57,040 --> 01:17:02,200 Speaker 1: free speech, for example, and it's necessity. And well, as 1267 01:17:02,280 --> 01:17:05,200 Speaker 1: you know or may may not know, the issue of 1268 01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:08,560 Speaker 1: free speech has become divisive on campuses. What with the 1269 01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:13,160 Speaker 1: rise of I would say, both political like postmodernism and 1270 01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:17,880 Speaker 1: and it's new martsist foundations. Um, but what about the 1271 01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:22,960 Speaker 1: specific issue of pronoun usage and Canadian law. I'm very 1272 01:17:23,040 --> 01:17:26,680 Speaker 1: familiar with the campus political correctness battles, and as a 1273 01:17:26,760 --> 01:17:30,240 Speaker 1: college Republican from over a decade ago, now I I 1274 01:17:30,680 --> 01:17:33,360 Speaker 1: lived some of this stuff. But tell me about the 1275 01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:38,080 Speaker 1: pronoun transgender law and what's going on in Canada. And 1276 01:17:38,240 --> 01:17:39,800 Speaker 1: that was part of your discovered that was part of 1277 01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:42,479 Speaker 1: what came up, I know from your discussion. Yeah. Well, 1278 01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:45,920 Speaker 1: I made some videos back in September criticizing two things. 1279 01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:50,120 Speaker 1: Criticizing one criticizing Canada's move to make compelled speech a 1280 01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:53,880 Speaker 1: feature of our legal system, requiring that people use the 1281 01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:58,560 Speaker 1: pronouns of the target's choice. And I don't agree that 1282 01:17:58,760 --> 01:18:01,240 Speaker 1: that's something that the government's should be regulating. I think 1283 01:18:01,280 --> 01:18:04,960 Speaker 1: that the incursion of the government into the regulation of 1284 01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:08,120 Speaker 1: speech content is a terrible thing, and the fact that 1285 01:18:08,160 --> 01:18:11,240 Speaker 1: it happens to be about transgenderism, to me, is more 1286 01:18:11,280 --> 01:18:13,840 Speaker 1: of a side issue than anything else, just where the 1287 01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:17,400 Speaker 1: issue happens to have emerged. And I was also objecting 1288 01:18:17,439 --> 01:18:21,760 Speaker 1: to the University of Toronto human resources department decision to 1289 01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:27,320 Speaker 1: make unconscious bias retraining so called mandatory for their human 1290 01:18:27,439 --> 01:18:30,960 Speaker 1: resources staff, and that caused a tremendous amount of political 1291 01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:35,919 Speaker 1: controversy in Canada, which even months later, still hasn't completely 1292 01:18:36,160 --> 01:18:38,320 Speaker 1: faded away. Let me take these in reverse order for 1293 01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:44,280 Speaker 1: a second. What is unconscious biased training. Well, the hypothesis 1294 01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:47,679 Speaker 1: is that it's part of this brand new move across 1295 01:18:48,320 --> 01:18:52,360 Speaker 1: institutions at multiple levels to push the idea of equity, 1296 01:18:53,040 --> 01:18:56,719 Speaker 1: which is now termed equality of outcome rather than equality 1297 01:18:56,760 --> 01:19:00,759 Speaker 1: of opportunity. And this is coming everyone's way very rapidly, 1298 01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:03,280 Speaker 1: so it's definitely worth noting. So the idea is that 1299 01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:08,920 Speaker 1: if the demographic UH makeup of a given organization at 1300 01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:12,840 Speaker 1: every level of the organization doesn't precisely match the demographic 1301 01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:17,760 Speaker 1: makeup of the surrounding community, so that means say, women, 1302 01:19:18,720 --> 01:19:23,920 Speaker 1: men uh four percent black, say, and four percent black, etcetera. 1303 01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:29,240 Speaker 1: Then the institution is to be deemed corrupt and everyone 1304 01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:32,960 Speaker 1: in it racist, and then to be both measured for 1305 01:19:33,080 --> 01:19:37,839 Speaker 1: that and then subject to retraining of their hypothetical unconscious biases. 1306 01:19:38,520 --> 01:19:40,680 Speaker 1: And what happens if you don't under Connadian law, if 1307 01:19:40,680 --> 01:19:43,120 Speaker 1: you don't use the proper pronount, can you get fined? 1308 01:19:43,360 --> 01:19:46,760 Speaker 1: Did they just send you a strongly awarded letter? What happens? Well, 1309 01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:49,280 Speaker 1: what happened to me was merely because I said that 1310 01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:51,800 Speaker 1: I wouldn't do it, and so that isn't even the 1311 01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:54,040 Speaker 1: same as not doing it, by the way, just because 1312 01:19:54,040 --> 01:19:56,720 Speaker 1: I said I wouldn't do it, the university sent me 1313 01:19:56,840 --> 01:20:00,599 Speaker 1: two letters suggesting a that I was in violation university 1314 01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:03,519 Speaker 1: policy and be that I was likely in violation of 1315 01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:08,080 Speaker 1: the relevant Ontario Human Rights Commissions policies, which which are 1316 01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:11,360 Speaker 1: the policies that this new legislation that I was opposing 1317 01:20:11,880 --> 01:20:15,240 Speaker 1: will be interpreted within. Can that have civil penalties? Though 1318 01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:19,960 Speaker 1: absolutely absolutely it can have civil penalties. The Ontario Human 1319 01:20:20,080 --> 01:20:23,479 Speaker 1: Rights Commission, which is an appalling lye UM. I would say, 1320 01:20:23,760 --> 01:20:27,559 Speaker 1: kangaroo it's an it's a kangaroo court entity can bring 1321 01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:30,320 Speaker 1: you in front of it um and find you uh, 1322 01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:33,920 Speaker 1: find you certainly a punitive amount of money, not to 1323 01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:35,880 Speaker 1: mention the amount of money that you have to spend 1324 01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:38,560 Speaker 1: on your legal defense. And then if you're unable or 1325 01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:41,519 Speaker 1: unwilling to pay that, then you're punted into the normal 1326 01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:44,080 Speaker 1: court system where they can find find you in contempt 1327 01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:47,280 Speaker 1: and jail you. So yeah, they the penalties are non 1328 01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:49,840 Speaker 1: non trivial, so they could they could lock you up 1329 01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:53,559 Speaker 1: and just they could lock you up for improper pronoun usage. 1330 01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:55,960 Speaker 1: This is in Canada, everybody, you know this. This This 1331 01:20:56,160 --> 01:20:59,639 Speaker 1: isn't in like Tajikistan or something. This is in Canada. 1332 01:21:00,240 --> 01:21:03,080 Speaker 1: And by the way, I'm sorry to call that, well 1333 01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:05,280 Speaker 1: they call that miss gendering, and it's a form of 1334 01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:08,920 Speaker 1: harassment or or abuse, right, But I wanted also I 1335 01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:11,160 Speaker 1: wanted to point out that my understanding, based on what 1336 01:21:11,280 --> 01:21:15,200 Speaker 1: I know of how the social justice movement likes to 1337 01:21:15,439 --> 01:21:17,680 Speaker 1: enforce their mandates. It's not just that you would have 1338 01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:22,120 Speaker 1: to call say, a man who is transgendered to female, 1339 01:21:22,280 --> 01:21:25,320 Speaker 1: which is not a scientific process that really exists. But nonetheless, 1340 01:21:25,600 --> 01:21:28,160 Speaker 1: it's not just you'd have to call him her. But 1341 01:21:28,240 --> 01:21:30,360 Speaker 1: my understanding is if somebody wants to be called z 1342 01:21:31,080 --> 01:21:34,360 Speaker 1: x E or they or whatever. Then you'd have to 1343 01:21:34,439 --> 01:21:38,200 Speaker 1: do that, because that's that's exactly right. And there's there's 1344 01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:41,400 Speaker 1: a myriad of these new pronouns coming up, and and 1345 01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:45,200 Speaker 1: there's absolutely no guidelines on on what the restrictions is 1346 01:21:45,360 --> 01:21:48,360 Speaker 1: on their enforced use. Now, I think to some degree 1347 01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:50,880 Speaker 1: this took the lawmakers by surprise, because I don't believe 1348 01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:54,639 Speaker 1: when they originally introduced these these policies that they knew 1349 01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:58,080 Speaker 1: that there would be an explosion of gender identities and 1350 01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:01,720 Speaker 1: the explosion of the of the corollary pronouns that are 1351 01:22:01,720 --> 01:22:04,160 Speaker 1: supposed to be a plot. But it doesn't matter because 1352 01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:06,479 Speaker 1: just like in New York State, the same thing applies 1353 01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:09,080 Speaker 1: in New York State. By the way, if you refuse 1354 01:22:09,200 --> 01:22:13,760 Speaker 1: to use the proper gendered pronouns, including these these uh 1355 01:22:14,200 --> 01:22:17,320 Speaker 1: constructive pronouns that no one uses, if you refuse to 1356 01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:19,320 Speaker 1: use those as a business owner in New York State, 1357 01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:22,120 Speaker 1: you can be fined two hundred and fifty thou dollars. 1358 01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:25,640 Speaker 1: I didn't even know that I live in New York State. No, No, 1359 01:22:25,960 --> 01:22:29,400 Speaker 1: it's not only Canada this and and it's certainly not 1360 01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:32,640 Speaker 1: only Canada. There's this sort of legislation is popping up 1361 01:22:32,640 --> 01:22:36,320 Speaker 1: all over the Western world. But my fundamental objection was 1362 01:22:36,439 --> 01:22:39,479 Speaker 1: that the government was regulating the content of speech for 1363 01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:42,200 Speaker 1: the first time in while in English common law history, 1364 01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:45,080 Speaker 1: is certainly in Canic Canadian history. There's no excuse for it. 1365 01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:47,799 Speaker 1: I was taken aback recently just being at a doctor's 1366 01:22:47,840 --> 01:22:49,599 Speaker 1: office here in New York City and on the form 1367 01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:52,080 Speaker 1: where it usually says male female, and this is in 1368 01:22:52,160 --> 01:22:55,640 Speaker 1: a medical doctor's office. I was getting an annual check up. Uh, 1369 01:22:56,040 --> 01:23:00,240 Speaker 1: it's said male female or or preferred gender identity. And 1370 01:23:01,280 --> 01:23:04,200 Speaker 1: this is in a medical doctor's office. Everybody you know 1371 01:23:04,360 --> 01:23:06,879 Speaker 1: that this is like there's this isn't about being polite. 1372 01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:09,600 Speaker 1: This is supposed to be you know, based on the 1373 01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:12,040 Speaker 1: on the x X or x Y chromosome. But but 1374 01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:14,519 Speaker 1: I digress. I wanted to I wanted you to have everyone. 1375 01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:17,000 Speaker 1: I wanted to tell everybody about what happened when you 1376 01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:18,800 Speaker 1: tried to give this speech and what are some of 1377 01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:23,120 Speaker 1: the contentions of the student body that thought that they're 1378 01:23:23,400 --> 01:23:27,760 Speaker 1: allowed to in fact morally compelled to literally shout you down. 1379 01:23:27,880 --> 01:23:30,839 Speaker 1: And really I saw a video professor engage in threatening 1380 01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:36,240 Speaker 1: and completely borish and insane behavior. Well, I mean, one 1381 01:23:36,320 --> 01:23:39,160 Speaker 1: of the things that it's necessary for for perhaps for 1382 01:23:39,240 --> 01:23:42,599 Speaker 1: your listeners to understand, is that there are a number 1383 01:23:42,680 --> 01:23:46,559 Speaker 1: of disciplines now in universities, and I would say headed 1384 01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:50,439 Speaker 1: by women's studies, and and and the associated disciplines that 1385 01:23:50,520 --> 01:23:54,480 Speaker 1: have surrounded women's studies, that do nothing but train activists. 1386 01:23:55,479 --> 01:23:57,960 Speaker 1: And so, as far as I'm concerned, we're publicly funding 1387 01:23:58,000 --> 01:24:00,800 Speaker 1: a fifth column in our society and funded now the 1388 01:24:00,880 --> 01:24:03,960 Speaker 1: development of millions of these activists. And their goal their 1389 01:24:04,040 --> 01:24:06,960 Speaker 1: stated goal, and this is what the program state forthrightly 1390 01:24:07,040 --> 01:24:10,840 Speaker 1: on their websites. It's not hidden information. Their goal is 1391 01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:14,599 Speaker 1: to take down the patriarchy. And apart from the fact 1392 01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:17,640 Speaker 1: that that's appalling lye um, what would you call it? 1393 01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:24,560 Speaker 1: Appalling lee slogan dominated phraseology, it's a veiled threat with 1394 01:24:24,720 --> 01:24:28,000 Speaker 1: regards to the structure of Western civilization itself, because these 1395 01:24:28,040 --> 01:24:33,760 Speaker 1: disciplines regard our culture as intrinsically oppressive and believe that 1396 01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:37,680 Speaker 1: every element of it has to be deconstructed and demolished, 1397 01:24:37,960 --> 01:24:41,600 Speaker 1: and that includes includes things that we consider very fundamental, 1398 01:24:42,080 --> 01:24:45,080 Speaker 1: like that the necessity for free speech and the utility 1399 01:24:45,120 --> 01:24:48,599 Speaker 1: of dialogue, and the existence the very existence of differences 1400 01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:51,519 Speaker 1: between men and women, which they believe do not exist, 1401 01:24:52,439 --> 01:24:58,640 Speaker 1: and part of their there uh philosophical position is that 1402 01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:02,720 Speaker 1: no dialogue is helpful between groups that have different identities, 1403 01:25:02,760 --> 01:25:05,200 Speaker 1: and so there's no point listening to a professor who 1404 01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:08,240 Speaker 1: comes on campus who might share a view who might 1405 01:25:08,280 --> 01:25:10,880 Speaker 1: have a viewpoint different than your own. All you're doing 1406 01:25:11,200 --> 01:25:13,280 Speaker 1: by allowing him or her to talk is to give 1407 01:25:13,320 --> 01:25:17,000 Speaker 1: them a platform for their for their hateful attitudes, and 1408 01:25:17,120 --> 01:25:19,720 Speaker 1: so you're morally obligated to go and shut them down. 1409 01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:22,200 Speaker 1: I saw. I've seen a lot of these videos professor 1410 01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:24,920 Speaker 1: on campuses where students have acted in this way, but 1411 01:25:25,160 --> 01:25:30,120 Speaker 1: in your case, it was it was very obvious that 1412 01:25:30,280 --> 01:25:35,479 Speaker 1: the students were completely brainwashed. You had one student that 1413 01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:37,760 Speaker 1: I saw in the video who told you that you 1414 01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:41,040 Speaker 1: were invited to speak about free speech, but not about 1415 01:25:41,080 --> 01:25:43,160 Speaker 1: the topic that you wanted to talk about, which had 1416 01:25:43,200 --> 01:25:47,000 Speaker 1: to do with the transgender pronoun usage in the content. Yeah, 1417 01:25:47,120 --> 01:25:50,000 Speaker 1: she was an amazing person, that woman, because by the 1418 01:25:50,120 --> 01:25:53,040 Speaker 1: time I was when she made those statements, I had 1419 01:25:53,080 --> 01:25:55,920 Speaker 1: already left the lecture hall and I was speaking outside 1420 01:25:56,040 --> 01:25:58,800 Speaker 1: in in a in a somewhat secluded area I was 1421 01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:00,680 Speaker 1: standing on, and you were just a street that she 1422 01:26:00,760 --> 01:26:02,200 Speaker 1: was telling you what you were and we're not and 1423 01:26:02,280 --> 01:26:06,120 Speaker 1: with with complete seriousness, like a little petty totalitarian. Right. 1424 01:26:06,200 --> 01:26:09,080 Speaker 1: She was so narcissistic that it was almost incomprehensible. I 1425 01:26:09,120 --> 01:26:10,920 Speaker 1: looked at her and I thought, well, first of all, 1426 01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:13,200 Speaker 1: she's like nineteen year old twenty year old kids, And 1427 01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:17,480 Speaker 1: I thought, how, how in the world is your conceptual 1428 01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:21,560 Speaker 1: universe constituted so that you think that you have the 1429 01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:24,040 Speaker 1: right to tell me what I can say in front 1430 01:26:24,120 --> 01:26:28,800 Speaker 1: of all these other people. You know, it's almost incomprehensive. 1431 01:26:28,840 --> 01:26:30,599 Speaker 1: I thought that was I thought it was a really 1432 01:26:30,720 --> 01:26:35,280 Speaker 1: it was a fascinating distillation of the social justice mindset 1433 01:26:35,439 --> 01:26:38,360 Speaker 1: and the activists training that these campuses are doing, because 1434 01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:43,000 Speaker 1: it was so both incomprehensible and contradictory. Professor, I want 1435 01:26:43,040 --> 01:26:45,439 Speaker 1: you to talk to the audience about postmodernism and neo Marxism, 1436 01:26:45,520 --> 01:26:47,000 Speaker 1: which I know is the lecturer you're going to be 1437 01:26:47,000 --> 01:26:48,800 Speaker 1: giving at Harvard soon. Can you stay with us through 1438 01:26:48,800 --> 01:26:49,920 Speaker 1: a break and talk to us on their side? Do 1439 01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:52,519 Speaker 1: you have a few minutes? Sure? Yeah, okay, great? Dr 1440 01:26:52,640 --> 01:26:55,800 Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson, everybody, Pressor of Psychology, University of Toronto. We're 1441 01:26:55,840 --> 01:26:59,519 Speaker 1: talking to social justice warriors, postmodernism, neo Marxism and more. 1442 01:26:59,680 --> 01:27:05,320 Speaker 1: Will be right back. We're back with Professor Jordan Peterson 1443 01:27:05,479 --> 01:27:07,599 Speaker 1: from the University of Toronto. He's got a speech coming 1444 01:27:07,680 --> 01:27:11,200 Speaker 1: up at Harvard mask of Compassion, Postmodernism and Neo Marxism 1445 01:27:11,560 --> 01:27:14,280 Speaker 1: in modern Times. Professor, thanks for staying with us. I 1446 01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:17,800 Speaker 1: wanted you to get into some of the ideological underpinnings 1447 01:27:17,880 --> 01:27:21,000 Speaker 1: of the social justice movement, namely postmodernism and neo Marxism, 1448 01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:23,240 Speaker 1: which you've tried to explain to some of the students 1449 01:27:23,240 --> 01:27:25,479 Speaker 1: when you're being shouted down at that university I talked 1450 01:27:25,520 --> 01:27:27,280 Speaker 1: about but tell us we're not gonna shot you down. 1451 01:27:27,360 --> 01:27:31,439 Speaker 1: Want to hear about it well, post the postmodern and 1452 01:27:31,800 --> 01:27:37,519 Speaker 1: idea is essentially that structures of value are prejudicial because 1453 01:27:37,600 --> 01:27:42,799 Speaker 1: they exclude. And it's true that structures of value exclude. 1454 01:27:42,840 --> 01:27:47,160 Speaker 1: I mean the for example, if you value brain surgeons 1455 01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:51,000 Speaker 1: then and you value confidence and brain surgeons, then there's 1456 01:27:51,040 --> 01:27:52,800 Speaker 1: going to be a small number of people who are 1457 01:27:52,880 --> 01:27:55,280 Speaker 1: brain surgeons, who are highly trained in a tremendous number 1458 01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:58,040 Speaker 1: of people who are excluded from that. And so the 1459 01:27:58,120 --> 01:28:03,960 Speaker 1: basic claim of postmodernism value structures exclude is correct. But 1460 01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:06,360 Speaker 1: they take it further and they make the case that 1461 01:28:06,439 --> 01:28:10,560 Speaker 1: the reason that value structures exist, or or hierarchies of competence, 1462 01:28:10,680 --> 01:28:14,120 Speaker 1: or hierarchies of power, any of those, the reason they 1463 01:28:14,160 --> 01:28:17,560 Speaker 1: exist is to privilege the people who are within the hierarchy. 1464 01:28:18,240 --> 01:28:21,000 Speaker 1: And that's not the purpose of them. That's one of 1465 01:28:21,040 --> 01:28:23,280 Speaker 1: the side effects of their existence. And maybe it's the 1466 01:28:23,320 --> 01:28:27,880 Speaker 1: purpose of them if they become somewhat corrupt, but but 1467 01:28:28,320 --> 01:28:32,479 Speaker 1: they're their first hypothesis is that there are structures of 1468 01:28:33,800 --> 01:28:35,920 Speaker 1: power that exists, and that the reason they exist is 1469 01:28:35,960 --> 01:28:39,280 Speaker 1: to privilege the people that have the power, and to oppress. 1470 01:28:39,360 --> 01:28:43,360 Speaker 1: Oppression must be part of that's you to oppress everyone else, okay, 1471 01:28:43,400 --> 01:28:48,080 Speaker 1: and so and and then having said that, they also 1472 01:28:48,240 --> 01:28:52,719 Speaker 1: adopt the framework that they there's no dialogue possible between 1473 01:28:53,080 --> 01:28:56,400 Speaker 1: groups that hold different positions of power, say they excluded 1474 01:28:56,479 --> 01:29:01,120 Speaker 1: and the and the included, because the include people set 1475 01:29:01,240 --> 01:29:04,400 Speaker 1: the terms for the discussion, and even such things as 1476 01:29:04,479 --> 01:29:08,400 Speaker 1: dialogue are only ways that they further their grip on power. So, 1477 01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:11,120 Speaker 1: not only for the postmodernists, not only is the world 1478 01:29:11,200 --> 01:29:16,559 Speaker 1: a landscape of warring groups. There's no possible dialogue between 1479 01:29:16,600 --> 01:29:20,800 Speaker 1: the groups. There's only power. And so that's basically that's 1480 01:29:20,840 --> 01:29:24,200 Speaker 1: partly the philosophy of Michelle Fuco and Jacques Dart as 1481 01:29:24,240 --> 01:29:27,160 Speaker 1: the other major player in the area. They're both French intellectuals. 1482 01:29:27,200 --> 01:29:30,880 Speaker 1: And now, the problem with postmodernism makes other claims to 1483 01:29:31,280 --> 01:29:34,599 Speaker 1: like the fact that interpretations of the world are entirely 1484 01:29:34,720 --> 01:29:37,679 Speaker 1: arbitrary and only grounded in power. It's a similar sort 1485 01:29:37,720 --> 01:29:44,240 Speaker 1: of idea. But and but the problem with their perspective 1486 01:29:44,360 --> 01:29:47,760 Speaker 1: is that if every interpretation is equally valid, then that 1487 01:29:47,880 --> 01:29:51,080 Speaker 1: leaves you with no direction for action. And so they 1488 01:29:51,479 --> 01:29:55,799 Speaker 1: they revert to the Marxism out of which Postmodernism emerged 1489 01:29:55,840 --> 01:29:58,479 Speaker 1: and say, well, there is a dialectic of power, and 1490 01:29:58,560 --> 01:30:00,560 Speaker 1: the proper ethic is to work on the side of 1491 01:30:00,600 --> 01:30:04,600 Speaker 1: the hypothetically oppressed. Now there's no real rationale for that 1492 01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:08,040 Speaker 1: from a postmodernist perspective, because the postmodernists believed that any 1493 01:30:08,080 --> 01:30:10,920 Speaker 1: old position is as good as any other position. But 1494 01:30:11,080 --> 01:30:15,000 Speaker 1: because human beings can't live without some impetus towards action, 1495 01:30:15,080 --> 01:30:18,960 Speaker 1: they default to this old style Marxism. And Marxism used 1496 01:30:18,960 --> 01:30:21,400 Speaker 1: to be the rich against the poor, you know, the 1497 01:30:21,439 --> 01:30:25,479 Speaker 1: bourgeoisie against the proletariat. But that didn't fly very well 1498 01:30:25,720 --> 01:30:29,400 Speaker 1: throughout the twentieth century century, partly because the proletariat tended 1499 01:30:29,439 --> 01:30:32,800 Speaker 1: to get rich under capitalism, and the systems that were 1500 01:30:33,080 --> 01:30:37,760 Speaker 1: predicated on Marxism tended to become brutally poor and unbelievably totalitariat. 1501 01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:41,360 Speaker 1: And so by the time the late sixties came around 1502 01:30:41,400 --> 01:30:44,599 Speaker 1: the early seventies, it was pretty clear to the Marxist 1503 01:30:44,680 --> 01:30:47,680 Speaker 1: types that classic Marxism wasn't going to fly, and so 1504 01:30:47,800 --> 01:30:51,080 Speaker 1: they just performed an intellectual sleight of hand and transformed 1505 01:30:51,160 --> 01:30:56,599 Speaker 1: bourgeoisie against proletariat into more than more generic oppressed versus 1506 01:30:57,560 --> 01:31:00,960 Speaker 1: or oppressor versus oppressed, and that sort of the basis 1507 01:31:01,040 --> 01:31:05,639 Speaker 1: of the of the um identity politics that we see today. 1508 01:31:05,920 --> 01:31:08,680 Speaker 1: So this is the under this is the underlying the 1509 01:31:08,880 --> 01:31:15,040 Speaker 1: roots of the constant victimology that's underneath or really in 1510 01:31:15,120 --> 01:31:19,200 Speaker 1: many ways energizing the social justice movements that aren't just 1511 01:31:19,360 --> 01:31:22,360 Speaker 1: campus based, although they maybe are in their most pure, 1512 01:31:22,479 --> 01:31:26,599 Speaker 1: unadulterated and insane form on campus, but have seeped out 1513 01:31:26,720 --> 01:31:29,160 Speaker 1: into the broader culture. And in fact, I've really seized 1514 01:31:29,680 --> 01:31:33,120 Speaker 1: some of the primary cultural institution, certainly in this country, 1515 01:31:33,200 --> 01:31:36,920 Speaker 1: and I'm assuming up in Canada as well. Professor No, definitely, well, 1516 01:31:36,920 --> 01:31:39,439 Speaker 1: and you see it invading the corporate domain now generally 1517 01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:42,880 Speaker 1: mostly under the guise of human resources, because the human 1518 01:31:42,960 --> 01:31:46,680 Speaker 1: resources professions have been invaded by social justice warriors and 1519 01:31:46,720 --> 01:31:51,560 Speaker 1: they're starting to push these doctrines of racism and unconscious 1520 01:31:51,600 --> 01:31:55,160 Speaker 1: bias and an equity. It's a very very dangerous, very 1521 01:31:55,280 --> 01:31:58,160 Speaker 1: very dangerous doctrine. Now, I know that you you had 1522 01:31:58,479 --> 01:32:02,240 Speaker 1: a grant that think was was pulled because of your 1523 01:32:02,280 --> 01:32:04,800 Speaker 1: stance on this. Is that fair to say, Well, it's 1524 01:32:04,840 --> 01:32:08,439 Speaker 1: hard not to make that assumption. I've been funded every 1525 01:32:08,479 --> 01:32:12,479 Speaker 1: single year I've been a professor in Canada until this year. Now. 1526 01:32:12,760 --> 01:32:16,600 Speaker 1: The grants, my grant applications often cover multiple years. But 1527 01:32:16,760 --> 01:32:20,320 Speaker 1: one of the things that I had had uh proposed 1528 01:32:20,400 --> 01:32:23,360 Speaker 1: to study was or to continue to study, was h 1529 01:32:24,040 --> 01:32:27,280 Speaker 1: the relationship between personality and political belief. And I've already 1530 01:32:27,320 --> 01:32:30,720 Speaker 1: looked at the relationship between personality and liberalism and conservatism, 1531 01:32:30,800 --> 01:32:34,320 Speaker 1: and we've extended that out to an analysis of political correctness. 1532 01:32:34,920 --> 01:32:39,040 Speaker 1: And I've become a well known, i would say, in 1533 01:32:39,160 --> 01:32:41,560 Speaker 1: Canada and to some degree in other places because of 1534 01:32:41,640 --> 01:32:44,000 Speaker 1: the stance that I've taken on free speech, and all 1535 01:32:44,040 --> 01:32:46,400 Speaker 1: of a sudden, my grant funding was not only was 1536 01:32:46,479 --> 01:32:50,000 Speaker 1: it not renewed my grant application was giving it given 1537 01:32:50,040 --> 01:32:52,760 Speaker 1: a very poor rating. So you become more well known 1538 01:32:52,760 --> 01:32:55,840 Speaker 1: as an academic and all of a sudden your funds trial. 1539 01:32:56,000 --> 01:32:59,360 Speaker 1: That's interesting. Yeah, and I have a very credible scientific reputation. 1540 01:32:59,439 --> 01:33:03,400 Speaker 1: There's lots of objective markers of scientific credibility, and using 1541 01:33:03,439 --> 01:33:06,000 Speaker 1: those objective markers, it places me easily in the top 1542 01:33:06,080 --> 01:33:10,000 Speaker 1: one percent of practicing research scientists. So there's no reason 1543 01:33:10,080 --> 01:33:13,240 Speaker 1: for my grant applications not to be uh, my my 1544 01:33:13,360 --> 01:33:16,200 Speaker 1: grant application not to be fun had social justice group 1545 01:33:16,200 --> 01:33:19,519 Speaker 1: has been targeting the university specifically because of your presence? 1546 01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:22,280 Speaker 1: Is that is that something that is a campaign that 1547 01:33:22,400 --> 01:33:24,720 Speaker 1: is underway has been underway. I would assume yes it 1548 01:33:24,840 --> 01:33:27,439 Speaker 1: had it had been underway At the University of Toronto. 1549 01:33:27,720 --> 01:33:30,880 Speaker 1: A lot of social justice types were very irritated at 1550 01:33:30,960 --> 01:33:35,120 Speaker 1: me because of my stance on against compelled speech, and 1551 01:33:35,560 --> 01:33:40,439 Speaker 1: they organized rarely a demonstration against my position, and also 1552 01:33:40,560 --> 01:33:43,800 Speaker 1: about two hundred of them signed a petition asking for 1553 01:33:43,920 --> 01:33:46,800 Speaker 1: me to be disciplined, and also wrote the university and 1554 01:33:46,880 --> 01:33:49,360 Speaker 1: said that I was making the campus an unsafe space 1555 01:33:50,160 --> 01:33:52,479 Speaker 1: and I don't want to put you in an unsafe space. 1556 01:33:52,560 --> 01:33:54,960 Speaker 1: Professor but I mean these other professors that are signing 1557 01:33:55,040 --> 01:33:58,240 Speaker 1: things against you, they just cowardly and they just worry 1558 01:33:58,280 --> 01:34:01,599 Speaker 1: about their jobs. For speech is the heart of the academy. 1559 01:34:01,680 --> 01:34:04,479 Speaker 1: What is wrong with these people? They're not just cowardly, 1560 01:34:04,520 --> 01:34:08,880 Speaker 1: they're also dangerous. They're definitely cowardly, and they like to 1561 01:34:08,960 --> 01:34:12,640 Speaker 1: attack in mobs, but they're also extremely dangerous. They're far 1562 01:34:12,680 --> 01:34:15,479 Speaker 1: more dangerous than people think. And the fact that in 1563 01:34:15,560 --> 01:34:18,559 Speaker 1: the United States and in Canada and in the Western general, 1564 01:34:18,680 --> 01:34:22,000 Speaker 1: that that the public has been funding these activist disciplines 1565 01:34:22,040 --> 01:34:24,720 Speaker 1: for the last thirty years has to stop. There's enough 1566 01:34:24,760 --> 01:34:26,360 Speaker 1: of them out there now so that they pose a 1567 01:34:26,439 --> 01:34:29,320 Speaker 1: credible threat to the structure of our society. And they're 1568 01:34:29,439 --> 01:34:32,880 Speaker 1: certainly motivated to pose that threat. They don't like the 1569 01:34:32,920 --> 01:34:35,880 Speaker 1: way that our society is constructed. For example, they're going 1570 01:34:36,280 --> 01:34:39,679 Speaker 1: after the idea that there are differences between men and women, 1571 01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:44,679 Speaker 1: like full flat out, and it's a very uh, there's 1572 01:34:44,720 --> 01:34:48,680 Speaker 1: no scientific credibility to their position whatsoever. Dr Peterson, what 1573 01:34:48,720 --> 01:34:52,200 Speaker 1: you're speaking at Harvard when on the tenth of April, 1574 01:34:52,320 --> 01:34:54,040 Speaker 1: tenth of April, all right, well we all will come 1575 01:34:54,040 --> 01:34:56,240 Speaker 1: back and tell us how that goes. Dr Jordan Peterson, 1576 01:34:56,320 --> 01:34:59,760 Speaker 1: Professor of psychology at the University of Toronto. Check out 1577 01:34:59,880 --> 01:35:02,000 Speaker 1: his work and if you can go Seeve at Harvard, 1578 01:35:02,040 --> 01:35:04,680 Speaker 1: please do. Professor. We appreciate you spending your time with us. 1579 01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:07,640 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for coming by my pleasure. Thanks for 1580 01:35:07,720 --> 01:35:11,080 Speaker 1: their invitation. Anytime, UH team phones are open eight four 1581 01:35:12,160 --> 01:35:24,280 Speaker 1: to eight to five, we'll be right back. Welcome back 1582 01:35:24,360 --> 01:35:27,280 Speaker 1: to the Freedom Hut on an island of liberty, where 1583 01:35:27,360 --> 01:35:30,960 Speaker 1: you're the party and it's full of fellow patriots. Buck 1584 01:35:31,040 --> 01:35:37,560 Speaker 1: Sexton kicks it off. The clock has run out on 1585 01:35:37,760 --> 01:35:41,519 Speaker 1: North Korean nuclear program. That's what the White House said. 1586 01:35:41,600 --> 01:35:44,160 Speaker 1: You've also got a very terse statement from Secretary of 1587 01:35:44,200 --> 01:35:48,160 Speaker 1: State Rex Tillerson. We've talked about North Korea. Enough is 1588 01:35:48,520 --> 01:35:53,000 Speaker 1: more or less what it said. Well, people are very 1589 01:35:53,080 --> 01:35:56,600 Speaker 1: concerned about this, and it comes all together right on 1590 01:35:56,680 --> 01:36:00,840 Speaker 1: the eve of a major sit down between Donald Trump 1591 01:36:01,000 --> 01:36:05,280 Speaker 1: and She's in paying the premiere of China. What can 1592 01:36:05,320 --> 01:36:07,360 Speaker 1: we expect from all this and what can be done 1593 01:36:07,400 --> 01:36:10,519 Speaker 1: about North Korea. Our friend Gordon Chang joins us now. 1594 01:36:10,640 --> 01:36:13,400 Speaker 1: He's the author of the Coming Collapse of China and 1595 01:36:13,600 --> 01:36:17,360 Speaker 1: Nuclear Showdown North Korea takes on the world. Gordon great 1596 01:36:17,360 --> 01:36:22,439 Speaker 1: to have you back. So the clock has now run out, 1597 01:36:22,760 --> 01:36:24,519 Speaker 1: is what the White House said on the North Korean 1598 01:36:25,040 --> 01:36:30,000 Speaker 1: nuclear program. That seems very definitive. It seems like there 1599 01:36:30,120 --> 01:36:32,920 Speaker 1: must be some action that they will take because the 1600 01:36:33,080 --> 01:36:35,720 Speaker 1: clock is run out. But what would that be? What 1601 01:36:35,960 --> 01:36:38,720 Speaker 1: can that be at this point? Is this bluster or 1602 01:36:38,760 --> 01:36:41,040 Speaker 1: do you think there's a real change in policy coming 1603 01:36:41,160 --> 01:36:45,080 Speaker 1: from this administration? Well, actually the statement was even more 1604 01:36:45,200 --> 01:36:49,280 Speaker 1: ominous than what you've repeated because the rest of that 1605 01:36:49,560 --> 01:36:53,559 Speaker 1: line buck is and all options are on the table, 1606 01:36:54,000 --> 01:36:57,120 Speaker 1: which is code for the use of military force. Now 1607 01:36:57,439 --> 01:37:01,200 Speaker 1: I don't think that we would do that, um, But nonetheless, um, 1608 01:37:01,479 --> 01:37:05,960 Speaker 1: there are frustration in the administration. And if the clock 1609 01:37:06,080 --> 01:37:08,400 Speaker 1: has run out on North Korea, then it should have 1610 01:37:08,680 --> 01:37:11,760 Speaker 1: also run out or be close to running out on 1611 01:37:12,000 --> 01:37:15,080 Speaker 1: China because these two countries have worked very closely. The 1612 01:37:15,200 --> 01:37:19,599 Speaker 1: Chinese not only provide economic support diplomatic support, but also 1613 01:37:20,080 --> 01:37:23,639 Speaker 1: the Chinese have been supplying materials and components for North 1614 01:37:23,720 --> 01:37:28,080 Speaker 1: Korea's nuclear weapons program, as well as important equipment and 1615 01:37:28,240 --> 01:37:32,680 Speaker 1: perhaps even technology and plans for North Korea's missiles. So, 1616 01:37:32,840 --> 01:37:35,479 Speaker 1: for instance, the missiles that North Korea launched on August. 1617 01:37:36,040 --> 01:37:39,160 Speaker 1: In February twelve look an awful lot like China's j 1618 01:37:39,439 --> 01:37:42,880 Speaker 1: L one submarine launched missile. Trump needs to start asking 1619 01:37:42,960 --> 01:37:46,560 Speaker 1: some questions when siegm Ping arrives in Mara Lago. What 1620 01:37:46,920 --> 01:37:52,800 Speaker 1: is the official Central Committee position in Beijing on all 1621 01:37:52,880 --> 01:37:56,720 Speaker 1: things North Korea? When they're talking to a US interlocutor, 1622 01:37:56,760 --> 01:37:59,479 Speaker 1: when they're having a conversation with the U S Secretary 1623 01:37:59,520 --> 01:38:02,040 Speaker 1: of State and the case Taylorson. But you know before that, 1624 01:38:02,640 --> 01:38:06,000 Speaker 1: you know Hillary John Carey and Hillary Clinton, and going 1625 01:38:06,040 --> 01:38:08,439 Speaker 1: back before that, you know All Bright back in the nineties, 1626 01:38:08,479 --> 01:38:11,160 Speaker 1: and of course all the Bush administration secretaries of State 1627 01:38:11,240 --> 01:38:14,360 Speaker 1: Condi Rice, Uh, what is their position on North Korea? 1628 01:38:14,439 --> 01:38:16,640 Speaker 1: Do they act they put on a show of oh, 1629 01:38:16,760 --> 01:38:19,080 Speaker 1: we totally agree with you, America, North Korea is terrible, 1630 01:38:19,200 --> 01:38:20,920 Speaker 1: or are they kind of like, well, you know, we'll 1631 01:38:20,960 --> 01:38:23,840 Speaker 1: work on that, we'll get back to you. There's two 1632 01:38:23,960 --> 01:38:27,240 Speaker 1: themes in what they say. First of all, yes, we're 1633 01:38:27,600 --> 01:38:30,560 Speaker 1: as frustrated with the North Koreans as you are Americans. 1634 01:38:31,040 --> 01:38:33,760 Speaker 1: But also, and I can sort of understand that they 1635 01:38:33,880 --> 01:38:37,360 Speaker 1: probably actually do feel a certain amount of angst. But 1636 01:38:37,479 --> 01:38:40,160 Speaker 1: the other thing that they say is that North Korea 1637 01:38:40,520 --> 01:38:44,000 Speaker 1: is primarily a US problem. Um, we created the problem 1638 01:38:44,040 --> 01:38:46,880 Speaker 1: and so therefore we should solve it, and that just 1639 01:38:47,320 --> 01:38:51,200 Speaker 1: is ludicrous. You know, the Chinese realized that the North 1640 01:38:51,280 --> 01:38:53,920 Speaker 1: Koreans are difficult to do with, but they don't stop 1641 01:38:54,040 --> 01:38:56,600 Speaker 1: dealing with them. They continue to support them, and so 1642 01:38:56,760 --> 01:38:59,000 Speaker 1: we just got to understand that, Yeah, we got a 1643 01:38:59,080 --> 01:39:02,839 Speaker 1: North Korea problem, but we really really got a China problem. 1644 01:39:03,400 --> 01:39:05,600 Speaker 1: Now when it comes to the options, you know, we 1645 01:39:05,720 --> 01:39:08,320 Speaker 1: say all options are on the table, and I assume 1646 01:39:08,760 --> 01:39:11,400 Speaker 1: obviously repeating that in a very public way from the 1647 01:39:11,439 --> 01:39:14,960 Speaker 1: White House is a reminder of of of the fact 1648 01:39:15,000 --> 01:39:16,639 Speaker 1: that all options are on the table. But that has 1649 01:39:16,720 --> 01:39:21,040 Speaker 1: been at least uh unstated policy, I would think for 1650 01:39:21,160 --> 01:39:23,400 Speaker 1: White Houses stretching back for for quite a while. Now, 1651 01:39:23,479 --> 01:39:26,160 Speaker 1: we have US troops in South Korea. They're clearly there 1652 01:39:26,760 --> 01:39:30,280 Speaker 1: for a reason, and we're watching North Korea's nuclear program 1653 01:39:30,360 --> 01:39:33,240 Speaker 1: as well as other North Korean actions very closely and 1654 01:39:33,360 --> 01:39:36,880 Speaker 1: with great concern. If let's say for a moment, Gordon 1655 01:39:37,400 --> 01:39:41,800 Speaker 1: that j and Ping and Donald Trump just get along famously, 1656 01:39:41,880 --> 01:39:44,200 Speaker 1: and he figures, you know, I don't want to get 1657 01:39:44,200 --> 01:39:46,600 Speaker 1: on the wrong side of this guy. I'm willing to 1658 01:39:47,360 --> 01:39:49,160 Speaker 1: to to to give a little to get a little 1659 01:39:49,240 --> 01:39:52,680 Speaker 1: here on the North Korea issue. What would some of 1660 01:39:52,760 --> 01:39:55,840 Speaker 1: the actions, What would positive Chinese action career other than 1661 01:39:55,880 --> 01:39:58,439 Speaker 1: we're not going to give the missiles and nuclear help, right, 1662 01:39:58,760 --> 01:40:00,640 Speaker 1: which but that is I assume part of this. What 1663 01:40:00,720 --> 01:40:02,640 Speaker 1: would some of the actions look like? I mean, how 1664 01:40:02,720 --> 01:40:05,680 Speaker 1: much could we reasonably expect from China in dealing with 1665 01:40:05,800 --> 01:40:07,800 Speaker 1: North Korea so that we don't have to sit around 1666 01:40:07,800 --> 01:40:09,439 Speaker 1: wondering what are they going to get nukes and put 1667 01:40:09,479 --> 01:40:11,400 Speaker 1: them on a long range missile and maybe be crazy 1668 01:40:11,479 --> 01:40:14,439 Speaker 1: enough to use them? Well, I think the most important 1669 01:40:14,479 --> 01:40:17,680 Speaker 1: thing that would be um, Chinese help would be just 1670 01:40:17,800 --> 01:40:22,720 Speaker 1: basically to cut off commerce with China. Of North Korea's 1671 01:40:23,280 --> 01:40:27,360 Speaker 1: external commerce is with China, and so that's the money 1672 01:40:27,439 --> 01:40:30,439 Speaker 1: flow that supports the regime, permits it to build nukes 1673 01:40:30,479 --> 01:40:33,360 Speaker 1: and missiles, just gives it the flexibility to keep itself 1674 01:40:33,400 --> 01:40:38,400 Speaker 1: from power. So essentially it's going to be an economic issue, 1675 01:40:38,600 --> 01:40:41,400 Speaker 1: and of course, as you point out, Um, it should 1676 01:40:41,479 --> 01:40:45,560 Speaker 1: be also China cutting off the supply of materials and 1677 01:40:45,640 --> 01:40:49,080 Speaker 1: components for their weapons program and also getting Chinese banks 1678 01:40:49,240 --> 01:40:53,000 Speaker 1: out of money laundering for North Korea. Now, I don't 1679 01:40:53,040 --> 01:40:56,320 Speaker 1: think any they they might promise a lot of this stuff, Um, 1680 01:40:56,479 --> 01:40:58,320 Speaker 1: but I don't think that they'll actually do it because 1681 01:40:58,360 --> 01:41:02,160 Speaker 1: Si Jumping identifies to us is his primary strategic adversary, 1682 01:41:02,439 --> 01:41:04,400 Speaker 1: which means he's not going to help us on what 1683 01:41:04,600 --> 01:41:08,200 Speaker 1: we see as a critical existential threat. But just so 1684 01:41:08,360 --> 01:41:13,160 Speaker 1: we're all clear listening here to Gordon, if China wanted to, 1685 01:41:13,800 --> 01:41:17,120 Speaker 1: they could economically strangle North Korea, right that that would 1686 01:41:17,160 --> 01:41:19,600 Speaker 1: be within their within their power to do, or at 1687 01:41:19,680 --> 01:41:25,400 Speaker 1: least to dramatically box them in. Absolutely. You know, it's 1688 01:41:25,439 --> 01:41:28,599 Speaker 1: not only these money flows. You know, North Korea would 1689 01:41:28,600 --> 01:41:33,559 Speaker 1: have no energy because somewhere like it's crude oil comes 1690 01:41:33,600 --> 01:41:38,160 Speaker 1: from China. About dent of North Korea's jet fuel comes 1691 01:41:38,200 --> 01:41:41,479 Speaker 1: from China. There is no North Korean Air Force without 1692 01:41:41,560 --> 01:41:44,240 Speaker 1: the Chinese. You just run down the list of all 1693 01:41:44,280 --> 01:41:47,599 Speaker 1: of these items. It is just so clear that China 1694 01:41:47,800 --> 01:41:50,759 Speaker 1: is keeping North Korea in business. Is there any scenario 1695 01:41:50,880 --> 01:41:53,439 Speaker 1: in your mind where again, and I know and you 1696 01:41:53,520 --> 01:41:55,920 Speaker 1: point out and I think this is this is absolutely correct, 1697 01:41:56,000 --> 01:41:59,920 Speaker 1: that there's a strategic depth and a and a chess 1698 01:42:00,080 --> 01:42:02,639 Speaker 1: peace that that that the Chinese government has with North 1699 01:42:02,720 --> 01:42:05,040 Speaker 1: Korea that they're not about to just give up as 1700 01:42:05,160 --> 01:42:08,479 Speaker 1: some active good faith. But is there a scenario where 1701 01:42:08,520 --> 01:42:11,240 Speaker 1: you could see North Korea actually becoming a threat or 1702 01:42:11,400 --> 01:42:14,160 Speaker 1: threatening even the regime in Beijing the same way they 1703 01:42:14,200 --> 01:42:15,840 Speaker 1: seem to do to the rest of the world. Or 1704 01:42:15,920 --> 01:42:19,400 Speaker 1: is there recognition that the Chinese would react very poorly 1705 01:42:19,479 --> 01:42:22,520 Speaker 1: to that. Oh, there there are a lot of scenarios 1706 01:42:22,640 --> 01:42:25,880 Speaker 1: where North Korea turns its missiles north and west rather 1707 01:42:26,000 --> 01:42:29,479 Speaker 1: than east and south. Got to remember that the North 1708 01:42:29,560 --> 01:42:32,799 Speaker 1: Koreans have identified US as their adversary for seven decades. 1709 01:42:33,320 --> 01:42:37,160 Speaker 1: They have identified the Chinese as their blood enemies for 1710 01:42:37,360 --> 01:42:40,680 Speaker 1: to millennia, And when Chinese talk about the US, they 1711 01:42:40,760 --> 01:42:44,840 Speaker 1: just mouthed the terms, but when they actually talk about China, 1712 01:42:45,080 --> 01:42:49,160 Speaker 1: they get blood angry. So clearly the Chinese are worried. 1713 01:42:49,200 --> 01:42:52,120 Speaker 1: They should be worried. But China actually supports North Korea 1714 01:42:52,240 --> 01:42:56,240 Speaker 1: because in the short term, the North Korean's performs some 1715 01:42:56,520 --> 01:43:01,240 Speaker 1: very important things uh and further important Chinese goals, which 1716 01:43:01,320 --> 01:43:05,000 Speaker 1: is basically keep us off balance. It distracts us from 1717 01:43:05,040 --> 01:43:08,120 Speaker 1: talking about issues that we have with China. Also, it 1718 01:43:08,320 --> 01:43:11,840 Speaker 1: endlessly creates bargaining chips for the Chinese, because every time 1719 01:43:11,960 --> 01:43:14,920 Speaker 1: something happens in North Korea, we send our secretary of 1720 01:43:15,040 --> 01:43:18,600 Speaker 1: state and the Chinese extract concessions from US. So in 1721 01:43:18,680 --> 01:43:21,519 Speaker 1: the short term, you know, North Korea couldn't be any 1722 01:43:21,720 --> 01:43:25,320 Speaker 1: better than that. For China, what are North Korea and 1723 01:43:25,360 --> 01:43:27,719 Speaker 1: I want to get to to China and US China 1724 01:43:27,800 --> 01:43:30,640 Speaker 1: trade deals and I know we can can touch on 1725 01:43:30,720 --> 01:43:33,840 Speaker 1: that subject in some depth with you, Gordon. But but first, well, 1726 01:43:33,880 --> 01:43:37,400 Speaker 1: what are North Korea's strategic objectives over the next few years, 1727 01:43:37,840 --> 01:43:40,320 Speaker 1: if any other than just survival? Is it just survival 1728 01:43:40,520 --> 01:43:43,040 Speaker 1: or is there more than that? Well, in the short 1729 01:43:43,160 --> 01:43:45,400 Speaker 1: term it is survival, but long term they have never 1730 01:43:45,520 --> 01:43:49,439 Speaker 1: given up their goal of destroying the South Korean state. 1731 01:43:49,840 --> 01:43:53,040 Speaker 1: They want to rule the entire Korean peninsula, and indeed, 1732 01:43:53,200 --> 01:43:56,040 Speaker 1: to be survivable over the long term, they've got to 1733 01:43:56,080 --> 01:43:59,759 Speaker 1: get rid of South Korea because South Korea is another Korea, 1734 01:44:00,080 --> 01:44:03,439 Speaker 1: and it's another Korea which is more prosperous, and North 1735 01:44:03,560 --> 01:44:08,320 Speaker 1: Korean's will eventually understand that, which means that essentially people 1736 01:44:08,320 --> 01:44:11,120 Speaker 1: are going to say to the Kims, well, why are 1737 01:44:11,200 --> 01:44:14,160 Speaker 1: you here. You know there's another Korea, it's just across 1738 01:44:14,320 --> 01:44:17,920 Speaker 1: the border. It's much better than our Korea. So you know, 1739 01:44:18,160 --> 01:44:20,439 Speaker 1: they would get rid of the Kim regime if they could. 1740 01:44:20,880 --> 01:44:23,840 Speaker 1: And that's the reason why Um the Kims believe that 1741 01:44:23,960 --> 01:44:26,200 Speaker 1: they've just, at the end of the day, got to 1742 01:44:26,320 --> 01:44:30,160 Speaker 1: rule the entire peninsula, not just north of the DMZ. Right, 1743 01:44:30,200 --> 01:44:33,200 Speaker 1: the mere existence of a prosperous, free South Korea is 1744 01:44:33,240 --> 01:44:36,280 Speaker 1: an existential threat to the North Korean regime, even without 1745 01:44:36,360 --> 01:44:40,200 Speaker 1: being a specific military threat. It's just just its existence 1746 01:44:40,600 --> 01:44:45,640 Speaker 1: clearly undermined the ideology of of of North Korea. Now, 1747 01:44:45,680 --> 01:44:49,759 Speaker 1: I want to ask about China and trade policy. People 1748 01:44:49,880 --> 01:44:53,400 Speaker 1: keep talking about this well, and Trump in the course 1749 01:44:53,479 --> 01:44:56,760 Speaker 1: of his presidential run, we'll talk about bad trade deals 1750 01:44:56,800 --> 01:44:59,640 Speaker 1: and better trade deals with China. Um I had a 1751 01:44:59,680 --> 01:45:01,919 Speaker 1: trade expert on the show recently. You said that China's 1752 01:45:02,160 --> 01:45:04,680 Speaker 1: inclusion in the World Trade Organization, for example, and what 1753 01:45:04,760 --> 01:45:06,519 Speaker 1: it gets away with there is just crazy. I mean, 1754 01:45:06,600 --> 01:45:09,400 Speaker 1: what are some of the places where we could have 1755 01:45:09,560 --> 01:45:14,680 Speaker 1: a better trade deal or enforce existing deals or expectations 1756 01:45:14,760 --> 01:45:16,680 Speaker 1: and norms with China that would benefit us? And what 1757 01:45:16,760 --> 01:45:18,599 Speaker 1: are some of the concrete areas where we could see 1758 01:45:18,720 --> 01:45:22,800 Speaker 1: change there. Well, Uh, it's just across the board, is 1759 01:45:23,040 --> 01:45:27,520 Speaker 1: is unfortunately the answer. Because China's trade behavior is deteriorated, 1760 01:45:27,760 --> 01:45:30,160 Speaker 1: especially under c jem tang what they're trying to do 1761 01:45:30,360 --> 01:45:33,840 Speaker 1: now and put this into a broader context um. They're 1762 01:45:33,920 --> 01:45:37,080 Speaker 1: trying to close off their market to foreign companies, and 1763 01:45:37,240 --> 01:45:41,720 Speaker 1: we see this in They're Made in China Initiative where 1764 01:45:41,760 --> 01:45:46,280 Speaker 1: intend critical sectors. They're trying to obtain self sufficiency. Also, 1765 01:45:46,400 --> 01:45:50,439 Speaker 1: they're using cybersecurity laws and regulations to prevent foreign companies 1766 01:45:50,479 --> 01:45:54,160 Speaker 1: from doing business with state enterprises and state entities. So 1767 01:45:54,439 --> 01:45:56,920 Speaker 1: there's just so much going on there. But also they're 1768 01:45:56,960 --> 01:46:00,920 Speaker 1: just violating their w t O World Trade Organization obligations 1769 01:46:01,040 --> 01:46:03,960 Speaker 1: left right and center. They're pretty blatant about it. And 1770 01:46:04,439 --> 01:46:07,519 Speaker 1: we have not done a good job in in challenging them, 1771 01:46:07,680 --> 01:46:10,240 Speaker 1: and we haven't done a good job in the Obama administration, 1772 01:46:10,439 --> 01:46:12,320 Speaker 1: and we haven't done a good job in the Bush 1773 01:46:12,360 --> 01:46:15,439 Speaker 1: administration either. There's a lot of blame to go around 1774 01:46:15,600 --> 01:46:19,080 Speaker 1: book and on the national security front, on the in 1775 01:46:19,240 --> 01:46:24,920 Speaker 1: terms of Chinese specific objectives, South China see Taiwan. UH. 1776 01:46:25,439 --> 01:46:27,880 Speaker 1: Let's start. Let's start with South China. See they have 1777 01:46:28,160 --> 01:46:31,480 Speaker 1: this base that they've built out. They still have competing 1778 01:46:31,560 --> 01:46:36,519 Speaker 1: claims with UH other other countries in the region, Philippines, Japan, 1779 01:46:36,640 --> 01:46:41,800 Speaker 1: and others over what the Spratley Islands, Paracel, Sankaku. These 1780 01:46:42,080 --> 01:46:46,200 Speaker 1: are places where we can see what a continuation of 1781 01:46:46,320 --> 01:46:48,400 Speaker 1: China's policy, not just of claiming these for its own. 1782 01:46:48,479 --> 01:46:50,479 Speaker 1: But do you think they'll try to extend more of 1783 01:46:50,600 --> 01:46:54,400 Speaker 1: these military bases and this reclamation from the from the 1784 01:46:54,479 --> 01:46:56,240 Speaker 1: sea that they've been doing, what do you think they'll 1785 01:46:56,280 --> 01:47:00,439 Speaker 1: be up to? Oh? Of course, the flat point in 1786 01:47:00,479 --> 01:47:03,280 Speaker 1: the South China Sea is Scarborough Shoal, which they seized 1787 01:47:03,320 --> 01:47:06,800 Speaker 1: in two thousand and twelve. The Obama administration did not 1788 01:47:07,160 --> 01:47:10,560 Speaker 1: stop them despite treaty obligations to the Philippines, and the 1789 01:47:10,680 --> 01:47:14,000 Speaker 1: Obama administration just didn't want to confront them, didn't want 1790 01:47:14,000 --> 01:47:16,840 Speaker 1: to have a kerfuffle. But what we did do by 1791 01:47:16,960 --> 01:47:19,479 Speaker 1: doing nothing is we empowered the worst elements in the 1792 01:47:19,560 --> 01:47:22,679 Speaker 1: Chinese political system by showing everybody else that aggression work. 1793 01:47:23,000 --> 01:47:25,400 Speaker 1: So China then just went on and ramped up its 1794 01:47:25,439 --> 01:47:27,800 Speaker 1: efforts to try to take more features in the South 1795 01:47:27,960 --> 01:47:31,519 Speaker 1: China see. They then ramped up their pressure on Japan 1796 01:47:31,680 --> 01:47:35,920 Speaker 1: to take the Sancakus Jack. Chinese state media backed up, 1797 01:47:36,840 --> 01:47:39,639 Speaker 1: backing up state institutions which are now trying to claim 1798 01:47:39,840 --> 01:47:42,960 Speaker 1: lay a groundwork for a sovereignty claim on Okinawa and 1799 01:47:43,040 --> 01:47:45,280 Speaker 1: the rest of the Rayouku chain as well. This is 1800 01:47:45,320 --> 01:47:48,320 Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties. This looks a lot like the Third Reich. 1801 01:47:48,520 --> 01:47:50,600 Speaker 1: Now I'm not saying that People's Republic of China is 1802 01:47:50,640 --> 01:47:54,439 Speaker 1: the Third Reich. It's obviously not. But the dynamic of 1803 01:47:54,560 --> 01:47:58,639 Speaker 1: an aggressor wanting more and more, that's the same. Which 1804 01:47:58,720 --> 01:48:00,600 Speaker 1: is the first country or and if you had to 1805 01:48:00,640 --> 01:48:02,840 Speaker 1: pick one that you were the most concerned about that 1806 01:48:03,000 --> 01:48:06,880 Speaker 1: might find itself on the wrong end of growing Chinese 1807 01:48:07,479 --> 01:48:12,400 Speaker 1: uh naval military might. Which one would it be? Philippines 1808 01:48:13,720 --> 01:48:17,160 Speaker 1: Scarborough show is that's where they're trying to take second 1809 01:48:17,200 --> 01:48:21,200 Speaker 1: Thomas shaul Um. They've intimidated the Philippine government. You know, 1810 01:48:21,320 --> 01:48:23,840 Speaker 1: we complain about the new president there, du Terte, who 1811 01:48:23,960 --> 01:48:26,679 Speaker 1: is posing up to Moscow and Beijing. But it's really 1812 01:48:26,720 --> 01:48:29,799 Speaker 1: our fault because du Terte says, and he's anti American, 1813 01:48:29,880 --> 01:48:31,960 Speaker 1: so he would never like us. But he has a 1814 01:48:32,080 --> 01:48:34,799 Speaker 1: really good point when he says, where is the seventh Fleet? 1815 01:48:35,160 --> 01:48:38,240 Speaker 1: I mean, he makes the point, you didn't defend this Washington, 1816 01:48:38,439 --> 01:48:41,240 Speaker 1: so we can't rely on you. And I think this 1817 01:48:41,439 --> 01:48:44,400 Speaker 1: is important because this hurts our relationships with our other 1818 01:48:44,439 --> 01:48:46,760 Speaker 1: treaty partners like Japan and South Korea and the rest 1819 01:48:46,840 --> 01:48:50,519 Speaker 1: of it. This calls into question everything like NATO. This 1820 01:48:50,880 --> 01:48:53,600 Speaker 1: really is one of the reasons why we're seeing a 1821 01:48:53,720 --> 01:48:56,640 Speaker 1: deterioration in peace and stability around the world. You let 1822 01:48:56,760 --> 01:48:59,439 Speaker 1: them take Georgia, that's George Bush's fault. You let them 1823 01:48:59,479 --> 01:49:03,479 Speaker 1: take crime Me and Eastern Ukraine, that's Obama's well. You 1824 01:49:03,640 --> 01:49:06,320 Speaker 1: see all of these problems of aggressors trying to redraw 1825 01:49:06,400 --> 01:49:10,400 Speaker 1: their borders by force, and we have the nineteen thirties 1826 01:49:10,640 --> 01:49:14,000 Speaker 1: on our on our doorstep right now. Gordon Chang is 1827 01:49:14,040 --> 01:49:16,759 Speaker 1: author of The Coming Collapse of China and Nuclear Showdown 1828 01:49:16,880 --> 01:49:20,600 Speaker 1: North Korea takes on the world, Gordon, anywhere else you 1829 01:49:20,640 --> 01:49:22,200 Speaker 1: want to direct people for your work and you're writing 1830 01:49:23,479 --> 01:49:25,920 Speaker 1: I archived my stuff on on Gordon G. Chang and 1831 01:49:26,200 --> 01:49:30,200 Speaker 1: my Twitter feed is uh Gordon side Gordon Chang dot 1832 01:49:30,240 --> 01:49:33,160 Speaker 1: com and my Twitter feed is Gordon GI Chang. Fantastic, Gordon. 1833 01:49:33,200 --> 01:49:34,519 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us, and now you're 1834 01:49:34,600 --> 01:49:37,519 Speaker 1: very busy today. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you. Buck. 1835 01:49:41,479 --> 01:49:43,200 Speaker 1: You know I was thinking about this in the first hour. 1836 01:49:43,320 --> 01:49:47,080 Speaker 1: We're talking about Syria, and I know sometimes I get 1837 01:49:47,800 --> 01:49:50,640 Speaker 1: into the weeds on the Mid East policy issues and 1838 01:49:51,000 --> 01:49:54,479 Speaker 1: one thing that I tend to get emails. And by 1839 01:49:54,520 --> 01:49:57,000 Speaker 1: the way, if you're listening and you have not yet, 1840 01:49:57,200 --> 01:50:00,879 Speaker 1: please do go to Facebook dot com slash buck Sexton. 1841 01:50:01,240 --> 01:50:03,439 Speaker 1: You click follow and then you'll be in our our 1842 01:50:03,520 --> 01:50:07,400 Speaker 1: show's Facebook feed and I post things there about all 1843 01:50:07,479 --> 01:50:11,240 Speaker 1: the news, stories, thoughts and occasionally you know, photos, videos, 1844 01:50:11,280 --> 01:50:14,960 Speaker 1: book recommendations, and this falls into that category. UM, for 1845 01:50:15,080 --> 01:50:19,280 Speaker 1: those who want a really good primer on specifically US. 1846 01:50:20,320 --> 01:50:22,200 Speaker 1: It's more US history in the Mid East, but it 1847 01:50:22,280 --> 01:50:24,280 Speaker 1: gives you also a sense of US foreign policy in 1848 01:50:24,320 --> 01:50:28,519 Speaker 1: the Middle East. Michael Oran's Power, Faith, and Fantasy is 1849 01:50:28,800 --> 01:50:32,200 Speaker 1: an excellent read. Uh, and it's it's fascinating. I think 1850 01:50:32,240 --> 01:50:34,720 Speaker 1: you'd really enjoy that one. I can highly recommend it 1851 01:50:35,479 --> 01:50:40,599 Speaker 1: for the Lebanese Civil War. Um. There are a number 1852 01:50:40,680 --> 01:50:44,320 Speaker 1: of books that have come to mind. The one I 1853 01:50:44,320 --> 01:50:46,559 Speaker 1: always I shouldn't I shouldn't say this be grudgally because 1854 01:50:46,560 --> 01:50:48,439 Speaker 1: it is a good book, but you could read as 1855 01:50:48,479 --> 01:50:51,559 Speaker 1: a primer Tom Friedman's From Barry to Jerusalem, and people 1856 01:50:51,760 --> 01:50:54,600 Speaker 1: like Boo Tom Friedman. It's a good book and he 1857 01:50:54,680 --> 01:50:57,960 Speaker 1: had some very very worthwhile and relevant experience as a 1858 01:50:58,000 --> 01:51:01,280 Speaker 1: bureau chief in those two cities. Um. But a book 1859 01:51:01,360 --> 01:51:03,960 Speaker 1: that I would also recommend to you, moving on from 1860 01:51:03,960 --> 01:51:07,600 Speaker 1: the Freedman recommendation, would be a Pity the Nation, The 1861 01:51:07,680 --> 01:51:13,080 Speaker 1: Abduction of Lebanon by Robert Fisk, who was a correspondent 1862 01:51:13,840 --> 01:51:16,040 Speaker 1: ah Belie for the London for the London Times. I 1863 01:51:16,160 --> 01:51:17,760 Speaker 1: have I have that book at home on my shelf 1864 01:51:17,880 --> 01:51:22,400 Speaker 1: and it's it's excellent And to understand the dynamics right 1865 01:51:22,520 --> 01:51:26,559 Speaker 1: now that are playing out in Syria, including the Assad regime, which, 1866 01:51:26,600 --> 01:51:30,240 Speaker 1: by the way, Assad right now we're dealing with Basher. 1867 01:51:30,320 --> 01:51:33,479 Speaker 1: Before they were dealing with half his father Um and 1868 01:51:33,600 --> 01:51:36,440 Speaker 1: Buscher wasn't even supposed to take over. He's an ophthalmologist, 1869 01:51:36,479 --> 01:51:41,240 Speaker 1: he's an eye doctor by trade. But huff Az was 1870 01:51:41,320 --> 01:51:47,120 Speaker 1: preparing this regime for the inevitable upheaval that he knew 1871 01:51:47,240 --> 01:51:49,840 Speaker 1: was coming. And it stretches all the way. Well, you 1872 01:51:50,120 --> 01:51:52,360 Speaker 1: can look at at Hamma, which there's a whole section 1873 01:51:52,400 --> 01:51:56,200 Speaker 1: in Thomas Freeman's book From Barry to Jerusalem on Hamma rules. Um. 1874 01:51:56,320 --> 01:51:59,479 Speaker 1: Hamma was a city that has now come back into 1875 01:52:00,400 --> 01:52:02,720 Speaker 1: prominence because of all of the fighting, and it has 1876 01:52:02,800 --> 01:52:05,599 Speaker 1: gotten some news coverage as a result, but they leveled 1877 01:52:05,640 --> 01:52:07,840 Speaker 1: with artillery part of the city of Hamma. It was 1878 01:52:07,880 --> 01:52:11,320 Speaker 1: a Muslim Brotherhood stronghold. Aleppo, which has been the heart 1879 01:52:11,560 --> 01:52:15,040 Speaker 1: of until it was largely decimated recently, had been the 1880 01:52:15,120 --> 01:52:17,960 Speaker 1: heart of anti Assad resistance, was also a Muslim Brotherhood 1881 01:52:17,960 --> 01:52:20,400 Speaker 1: stronghold stretching back to the to the eighties and before 1882 01:52:20,520 --> 01:52:23,519 Speaker 1: that well when Bashar Alsad's father Hafez had to deal 1883 01:52:24,479 --> 01:52:30,160 Speaker 1: with dissent, upheaval and threats to his regime. So the 1884 01:52:30,240 --> 01:52:35,080 Speaker 1: Syrian government, the Syrian police and police state have been 1885 01:52:35,160 --> 01:52:38,120 Speaker 1: preparing for this civil war for a long time, and 1886 01:52:38,320 --> 01:52:41,599 Speaker 1: you get that sense from reading some of the history. 1887 01:52:41,640 --> 01:52:42,920 Speaker 1: And that's also why I wanted to bring into this 1888 01:52:43,000 --> 01:52:48,840 Speaker 1: today that even a even a leader as UH as patriotic, 1889 01:52:48,960 --> 01:52:54,240 Speaker 1: charismatic and brilliant and brave as Reagan, got pulled into 1890 01:52:54,320 --> 01:52:58,040 Speaker 1: an unwinnable situation in Beirut. And there are so many 1891 01:52:59,240 --> 01:53:05,320 Speaker 1: similarity between the forces and the UH the difficulties that 1892 01:53:05,560 --> 01:53:07,479 Speaker 1: one would have faced and what that we did face 1893 01:53:07,640 --> 01:53:09,640 Speaker 1: in Beirut, that we face would face now if we 1894 01:53:09,680 --> 01:53:11,559 Speaker 1: were to get in deeply involved in serious So anyway, 1895 01:53:11,600 --> 01:53:14,799 Speaker 1: that's pity. The nation is excellent from Beirut to Jerusalem 1896 01:53:14,840 --> 01:53:16,720 Speaker 1: is also very good. For a more general overview of 1897 01:53:16,800 --> 01:53:21,000 Speaker 1: media's history, power, faith and fantasy, my Michael Oran is excellent. UM. 1898 01:53:21,240 --> 01:53:24,000 Speaker 1: Please also download the show. Uh you can play it 1899 01:53:24,040 --> 01:53:26,800 Speaker 1: on demand with the I Heart app and give me 1900 01:53:26,800 --> 01:53:29,320 Speaker 1: a favor and subscribe. Those of you who are on iTunes, 1901 01:53:29,360 --> 01:53:31,200 Speaker 1: you can just go to buck Sexton with America Now 1902 01:53:31,240 --> 01:53:34,760 Speaker 1: and iTunes click subscribe and if you really like the 1903 01:53:34,800 --> 01:53:37,080 Speaker 1: show and want to make me a super happy guy, 1904 01:53:37,800 --> 01:53:39,360 Speaker 1: tell a friend or two about it, see if they'll 1905 01:53:39,400 --> 01:53:42,000 Speaker 1: download it as well and check it out there. Team. 1906 01:53:42,280 --> 01:53:44,200 Speaker 1: It is an honored privilege as always to have gotten 1907 01:53:44,240 --> 01:53:46,120 Speaker 1: to hang out with you. Look forward to joining you 1908 01:53:46,200 --> 01:53:51,080 Speaker 1: again tomorrow as always, same time, same place, and yes, 1909 01:53:51,800 --> 01:53:52,439 Speaker 1: shields high.