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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

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Speaker 2: You know, every Wednesday we recap our old shows with

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Speaker 2: all new commentary, updates and insights.

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Speaker 1: We do and we will. Today we're recapping episode eighty four,

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Speaker 1: which we named Harvard iiO.

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Speaker 2: I have no idea what it means, and I love

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Speaker 2: it already.

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Speaker 1: I got an idea. It's fucking hilarious. It's so good. Okay.

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Speaker 2: This episode came out August thirty first, twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 1: So let's listen to the intro of episode eighty four.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to my Favorite Murder. Oh for some reason, professional

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Speaker 1: to me is like hello. Voice is ASMR videos. They

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Speaker 1: host horn videos. Welcome to my Favorite Murder. This is Karen.

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Speaker 1: That's Karen kil Karen. That's two professionals.

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Speaker 2: This is the third time we've started tonight. Let's see

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Speaker 2: if we can nail this.

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Speaker 1: It got real bad. We thought you guys missed a

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Speaker 1: lot about driving. You missed I spoiled a movie. Go

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Speaker 1: watch the movie, Christine. It's on Netflix, and I won't

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Speaker 1: that's all I'm gonna tell you.

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Speaker 2: That's all you're gonna tell them, And don't look anything

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Speaker 2: up about it.

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Speaker 1: Just watch it. If you dare, just watch it cold

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Speaker 1: and don't know what it's about. It was everything that

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Speaker 1: I wanted because it took place in the eighties. It

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Speaker 1: was all vintage clothing, amazing halls like a hall was incredible,

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Speaker 1: Michael C. Hall, It's play such a douche. I love it.

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Speaker 1: All the halls are in all the halls there, and

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Speaker 1: it's about the invention of halls cop drops.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: The halls are the halls of what are they? What

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Speaker 1: was our catchphrase? Deck the halls? Now this is just

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Speaker 1: word association. Should we start again? We're on April, do it?

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Speaker 1: We're leaving tomorrow for Denver. Oh, yes, that this will

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Speaker 1: come out next week. So hey, nahi, believe how high

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Speaker 1: you got everybody? Yeah. So actually we're leaving in two

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Speaker 1: days for Australia. Oh shit, dude, are you a site?

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Speaker 1: I made us reservations at a restaurant already, right? Did

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Speaker 1: I tell you that? A? Right? Yeah you did. I

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Speaker 1: am excited.

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Speaker 2: I have to say I'm very angry at the ghost

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Speaker 2: of my mother because as the healthy already as the

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Speaker 2: as the the one thing she did harp on in

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Speaker 2: her life was it was always a nursing related thing.

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Speaker 1: Or health related thing.

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Speaker 2: Anytime I flew to New York or back East, she

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Speaker 2: would say, get.

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Speaker 1: Up and walk around. You don't want to die of

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Speaker 1: a blood cloud. She would say, that's yeah, before I

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Speaker 1: got into playing, which is like great, thanks, thanks, thank

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Speaker 1: you're building that into my signe. Now it'll never leave.

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Speaker 1: I don't. You are not supposed to cross your legs

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Speaker 1: on takeoff and landing really for that reason? Is yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know it's fucking true, but that's my paranoia

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Speaker 1: that I've read. Don't cross your legs. That's so specific though,

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Speaker 1: because you're cutting off blood circulation, right, But why take

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Speaker 1: off and landing because of the pressure. Okay, okay, you're

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Speaker 1: asking all right, Sorry, I'm sorry. Well, I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: all of it is that makes sense. Ish, It's just

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Speaker 1: a concern that I have. Okay, so your mom told

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Speaker 1: you that all my pants are too tight and I'm

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Speaker 1: scared I'm gonna dive a blood cloth. Okay, wait, oh

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Speaker 1: you mean in life.

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Speaker 2: Those are kind of two separate and then at the

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Speaker 2: same time the same issue.

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Speaker 1: Well, here's good news. Okay, since we're flying business class,

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Speaker 1: there's a bar in business class, so you can walk

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Speaker 1: over and meet me and Vince at the bar business

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Speaker 1: class getting absolutely shit hammerd wait.

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Speaker 2: Is this like international Waters where I can drink on

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Speaker 2: the plane to Australia because it doesn't count as being in.

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Speaker 1: America or my actual life. Yes, and then you'll have

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Speaker 1: a blood cut and a seizure on the place for.

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Speaker 2: Real, and I'll punch everybody. I will punch the pilot

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Speaker 2: and be arrested.

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Speaker 1: This Vin's Vin's keeps making up scenarios like he likes

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Speaker 1: to do. And then and then George is running around

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Speaker 1: the the business class and her G string. I don't

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Speaker 1: even wear string. Suddenly, oh you guys, you're debuting your

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Speaker 1: first G string. I'm running around that, miss, can you miss?

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Speaker 1: We need you to because you're going to be so drunk,

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Speaker 1: because I'll be so drunk and so excited.

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Speaker 2: Every business class very exciting. So I like the idea

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Speaker 2: that I can lay down. That really brings me a

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Speaker 2: lot of relief. But it is scary to me.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: There's something nerve wracking about a plan a plane flight

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Speaker 2: that long.

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Speaker 1: Huh okay, well, we'll hold your hand, okay, okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: be in a pod. That's right, We'll be in a

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Speaker 1: pod Steven, you'll be there. Are you're in the same

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Speaker 1: flight as us?

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Speaker 3: No, I'm not.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna send you back drinks constantly. No, yeah,

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Speaker 1: well I'll send him anyways. And Stephen's in his g

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Speaker 1: string Yeah, out of string ready, I got tear away

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Speaker 1: pants and everything. Yes, Australia's style.

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Speaker 3: I mean I've done that flight before. I have done

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Speaker 3: the flight to New Zealand, so that one's a little

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Speaker 3: bit longer than Australia. But like, I feel like I

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Speaker 3: just slept the whole time. I just was like, I

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Speaker 3: can't handle this long of a flight where it's like

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Speaker 3: we're landing like a two days later.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, but it's very exciting. Yeah, it's definitely gonna

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Speaker 1: be exciting.

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Speaker 2: Oh I'm gonna get in one of those Evan spray

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Speaker 2: bottles and just spray water on my face.

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Speaker 1: Just, ma'am. Can we ma'am? Everyone's complaining, ma'am. Nobody wants

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Speaker 1: you to do that anymore. Person behind he was sucking

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Speaker 1: wet because you keep doing it over your head, like

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Speaker 1: this is what rich people do, that stuff doing anything?

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Speaker 1: All right? Uh, okay, let's talk about podcasting. Oh I

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Speaker 1: want to say for the live show, since we're on

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Speaker 1: the subject that I think that we haven't told people that.

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Speaker 1: So we did like sometimes two or three shows in

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Speaker 1: the same city. We do a different murder every night.

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, So I feel like some people are like

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Speaker 1: because we did that once. The first time we did

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Speaker 1: two shows in one night. I believe it was Seattle, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like you could hear the people in the second show

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Speaker 1: who had been at the first one, like audibly grown. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then we were both like, oh, it felt bad.

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Speaker 1: The eric went out of the room. We were just

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Speaker 1: staring at each other, like why are we doing this?

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Speaker 1: It's I'm wrong with like I saw and I could

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Speaker 1: say in the front row, like the same two faces

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Speaker 1: I had seen in the show before. Yeah, And I

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Speaker 1: just wanted to apologize. So I think we did apologize

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Speaker 1: to a lot of people. We know what we did.

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Speaker 1: We stopped doing it. Therefore, that is the living apology

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Speaker 1: that we did. So we don't do the same murder

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Speaker 1: ever ever, And and it's a lot of work. I'm

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Speaker 1: really mad about it. Like you said that you feel

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Speaker 1: like you have fifteen book reports. Yes, it's true, and

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Speaker 1: we have all new really cool merch that you can't

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Speaker 1: get online, right, sail at the shows and live show. Like,

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Speaker 1: we actually put a lot of work into it, and

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Speaker 1: it's like fucking cool. Shita.

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Speaker 2: If you were single and you had a bumble profile,

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Speaker 2: I think that merch would be one of the things

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Speaker 2: you would list under your interests. I'm really you're talking

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Speaker 2: about merch and have been since day one.

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Speaker 1: It's just so fun. There's so much clol shit. We

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Speaker 1: have a shirt now and I can It says I'm

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Speaker 1: a and then it said there's one that says Karen,

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Speaker 1: one that says Georgia, but it's in our signatures. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Vince's idea and it's so fucking cool. Shit, it was

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Speaker 1: Karen's idea. She just melted it at me. God damn it.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Okay, you just gave me so much credit

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Speaker 1: for like doing merchant. Then I was like, you don't

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Speaker 1: do anything I do Sometimes I'm privacy of my home.

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Speaker 1: Well that I don't think it's that creative an idea anymore.

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Speaker 1: What happened? You loved it? Men's asked me to say that.

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Speaker 2: I would like to say, you know, props to events.

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Speaker 2: There are lots of people who contacted us from Los

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Speaker 2: Angeles or grew up here. Or whatever that needed to say,

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Speaker 2: there is a Carvell ice cream shop in Los Angeles

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Speaker 2: out on the West Side.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, uh, we didn't know that. I've never heard of

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Speaker 1: it at all in California at all. Me neither Fudgie

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Speaker 1: the way I've been hearing about forever. Who else contacted

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Speaker 1: us to let us know about Carvell? Carvell Carvel themselves? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what did they say? Did you see the tweet le?

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Speaker 1: Did it say Steven, Oh, because we're talking about getting

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Speaker 1: a Carvel budge the Whale for a hundredth show.

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Speaker 3: Yes, they were like the countdowns on party time, it's on.

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Speaker 1: Us so something. Oh, really, we're fucking famous now. To me,

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Speaker 1: I was like, that's that's it. Why the cake, ice cream,

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Speaker 1: cake runner that we can afford ourselves since Stephen get Yeah,

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Speaker 1: to me, I'm tweeting out as I lost. When you've changed,

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Speaker 1: You've changed, No, Steve, that's the party. I'm excited about

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Speaker 1: a cake, which is nothing new. It's a real celebration. Well,

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Speaker 1: what's funny to me is people talked about it and

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Speaker 1: they were like I grew up eating it and did

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Speaker 1: a Well I looked it up and.

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Speaker 2: As far as I could tell, that shop open in

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Speaker 2: two thousand and eight. No, that's on the website Santa Monica. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: oh yeah, that's the only one in LA.

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Speaker 1: I think there's one outside of LA too. I think

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Speaker 1: there was one in Like I'm naming a city that

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Speaker 1: I don't like, Monrovia. Oh, over in Monrovia, Over in Monroe.

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Speaker 1: Like it's one of those places where I'm from southern

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Speaker 1: California and I don't know where the like, there are

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Speaker 1: these cities that You're like, why would I know where

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Speaker 1: Paquoima is? It's like, yeah, is it those there's a

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Speaker 1: really there's a mystery spot that's kind of like along

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Speaker 1: the Inland Empire. Yeah, the Mountain Range. And it's just like,

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Speaker 1: why don't how do you not know where these places are?

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Speaker 1: Like Claremont, that's happening over in Clarimon. Nobody goes there

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Speaker 1: unless I think they stay there. They're like fuck La yeah,

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Speaker 1: which they hear there. It's like I've been of a

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Speaker 1: couple of the places. I'm like, oh, it's fucking adorable. Well,

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Speaker 1: Claremont's fancy. It has like that college. They have colleges

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Speaker 1: over there. Oh you mean Harvard that's what they had

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Speaker 1: Harvard too.

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Speaker 2: That's what they're Harvard. It's similar to Harvard. It's tons

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Speaker 2: of ivy. It's just mostly it's a school to teach

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Speaker 2: how to grow ivy.

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Speaker 1: They just have a plant that's they teach you how

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Speaker 1: to girl ivy. Do you know that my mom is

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Speaker 1: a horticlelturists and I really want her Wait hold on, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Janet's a horticulturist. Yeah, is that true. She's going to

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Speaker 1: school for it. She's always been so fucking hardcoren to plants. Wow.

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Speaker 1: And then finally at seventy one, she's like, well, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to go to school to be a horticulture It's amazing. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So she works at like a nursery and I'm dying

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Speaker 1: for her to open her own, her own plant shop.

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Speaker 1: And I just only because I want her to call

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Speaker 1: it little Shop of Horticulture. That's the best thing you've

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Speaker 1: ever Yeah, knows, it's not that one. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: go with. Okay, that one. I like, that's good. It

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Speaker 1: was good, thank you? That was the sidebars sidebar? What

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Speaker 1: if she did that? And then she gets sued.

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Speaker 2: People by brick moranas, by the evil dentist Steve Martin.

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Speaker 1: Uh, that was so pointless. Please go on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean seriously, it's it's like we're trying to

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Speaker 2: get people and I'll listen to this podcasts. Here's the

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Speaker 2: this series I have to talk about because I'm so

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Speaker 2: into it. Okay, The Sinner. Are you watching it with

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Speaker 2: Jessica Biell.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I'm dying too, Okay, you have to I'm dying.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know it's on yet. Jessica Biel Bill Pullman

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Speaker 1: plays the cop. Oh, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Some John Snow looking motherfucker plays her husband. I've never

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Speaker 2: seen him before. Unless it is John Snow and he's

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Speaker 2: doing an American accent. I'm not sure what's happening. He's

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Speaker 2: beautiful and it is a like she doesn't know.

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Speaker 1: You have to see it. I I've seen the commercials

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Speaker 1: and I've gotten like chills.

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Speaker 2: It's on demand anyway if you like. I don't know

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Speaker 2: if you like a good series, which this is and

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Speaker 2: it is. It has the crime feel to it, but

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Speaker 2: it also is like, has a very well written and

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Speaker 2: paced drama feel to it. Jessica Bill who I've never

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Speaker 2: known it like, I'm too old to be in that

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Speaker 2: seventh even generation.

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Speaker 1: Ought me too. She is so good. I just hated it.

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Speaker 1: It's I mean, like it's a little you're not that

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Speaker 1: you're not that into Christianity. That's probably what it is.

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Speaker 1: And I am what, Yeah, you're the You're for Jesus,

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Speaker 1: for Jesus. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, if you are looking for something new to watch,

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Speaker 2: highly recommend The Sinner.

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Speaker 1: It's not so. I was worried it's gonna be like

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Speaker 1: corn It. Like, you know, they keep trying to make

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Speaker 1: these shows that are like True Detective and they're not.

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Speaker 1: Like I really didn't like The Ozarks. Did you watch it?

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Speaker 1: I didn't watch it because yeah, everyone loved it, and

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I don't care, but it was I hated it,

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Speaker 1: and so I was like, oh, I hope this isn't

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Speaker 1: another one of those. Right now, Jason Bateman has a

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Speaker 1: single tear rolling down his cheek and then he sings, okay,

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Speaker 1: that's what he says in the beginning of every Sorry, shit,

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Speaker 1: I really want like a walk on roll in the

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Speaker 1: new rest of development, so I should attack shit on?

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Speaker 1: Is that really what you want? No? Oh, are you

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Speaker 1: vision boarding right now? If you fit following my vision

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Speaker 1: board walk on.

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Speaker 2: Roll where you just kind of walk on Uh No,

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Speaker 2: I totally get it because I think, well, it's because

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Speaker 2: when it's done right, it's the best.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And when when it's done right, you can like

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Speaker 1: lock into a series like that or Night of the

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Speaker 1: Night of Hello, Yeah, I mean I want to watch

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Speaker 1: it fifty times, So this I don't want thinking of

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Speaker 1: Jessica Biale and what's his name making out justin Timberlake. No,

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Speaker 1: that's her husband, Night of Risamed. Yeah. Oh and you're

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Speaker 1: just having personal fantasy. Yes, and that's for your other

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Speaker 1: podcast cause playing Okay, I'm sorry, I'm just going on.

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Speaker 2: You don't like Rizamed because if you like Rismed, you

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Speaker 2: wouldn't immediately picture making out with Jessica Biel and.

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Speaker 1: Picture making out myself. Well, yeah, if you so, you

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Speaker 1: you're not. He's a good looking cuman. Okay. I thought

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Speaker 1: you were like, oh, I want his DNA inside me. No,

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Speaker 1: I meant that, And I want to have his baby

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Speaker 1: because he's so hand because he's so beautiful, and the

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Speaker 1: baby you're using him using his DNA. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I'm totally telling him I used. I'm so mad. Those

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Speaker 1: are my only.

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Speaker 2: Topics Carvell in the Center, okay, and I think we

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Speaker 2: should probably watch them episodes while we eat Carville ice cream.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's watch him. Know while we was, I gonna

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Speaker 1: say I have another thing, but I'm sure it's not

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Speaker 1: important and weird. Take a moment, so stop and listen.

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Speaker 1: You know how people love awkward, weird pauses and podcasts.

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Speaker 1: They never exist with the with Stephen's wonderful work editing.

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Speaker 1: Don't edit this out, Stephen, and we're back. Clare Mount

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Speaker 1: College is Harvard too done and done? We did it again.

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Speaker 2: I mean there's parts of this you know, as you

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Speaker 2: and only you understand the parts, yes, the parts of

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Speaker 2: this podcast and having this podcast that are absolutely like

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Speaker 2: soul scrapingly painful for us. But then there's those things

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Speaker 2: where like you hear it back and you're like, god,

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Speaker 2: damn it, that's funny, totally just conversationally great chatter.

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Speaker 1: That's how I feel whenever I watch an MFM animated,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, we can't stop doing this because this is

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Speaker 1: fucking brilliant.

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Speaker 2: Not me and not you, but like this general yes, exactly,

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Speaker 2: like having those eyes where whether it's a Nick Terry

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Speaker 2: or our listeners where they're.

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Speaker 1: Like it's good, we like it. Yeah, You're like, okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: have you ever had a blood clot. No fuck no,

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Speaker 1: thank god. And I still don't cross my legs on

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Speaker 1: takeoff and landing. Yes, right, I mean or when you're

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Speaker 1: getting your haircut is do you know that? Or ever?

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Speaker 1: Because you're not a lady if you don't do it.

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Speaker 2: I was crossing my legs. Where was it the other day?

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Speaker 2: And I was like, am I supposed to be doing

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Speaker 2: this right now?

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Speaker 1: Oh? It was in church? And I was back the

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Speaker 1: fuck us? It was a funeral. Oh sorry, that's okay,

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Speaker 1: but what that's right? I'm becoming super Catholic to say

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Speaker 1: it was Christmas. I'm like, that still doesn't exclude you.

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Speaker 2: Know, no, it was it was a funeral, and I

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Speaker 2: was sitting there and then I was like realized that

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Speaker 2: that's my most comfortable position is crossed legs.

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Speaker 1: Same and I don't think you're supposed to cross your

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Speaker 1: legs in church? What that's not? They have so many rules?

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Speaker 1: You serious? That sounds like a superstition, but I guess

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Speaker 1: that's what religion is. Really. Well, hey, if there's.

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Speaker 2: Any nuns or priests out there that want to talk

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Speaker 2: about Catholic rules, because also this is like post Vatican two,

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Speaker 2: so there's rules.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know about.

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Speaker 2: They do call and response that I don't recognize because

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Speaker 2: I's not like that oft And then everyone else is like.

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Speaker 1: Do this, we're touching hands, touching hands. I'm like, what,

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Speaker 1: we never did it this way? They're playing fucking what's it?

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Speaker 1: Rochambau for god? Rochiambo for God? Yeah? What? Okay? What?

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Speaker 1: No blood cloth? Thank fucking God.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, everything's fine. Oh, that's a very meaningful question. Is

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Speaker 2: did your mom becoming horticulturist at seventy one inspire you

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Speaker 2: in any way?

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Speaker 1: Oh? I think yeah, it always has. I think it's

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Speaker 1: pretty incredible that she did that. It's very cool. It

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Speaker 1: keeps your brain. Like she had to learn Latin, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, and that. And she's seventy nine now, holy shit,

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Speaker 1: almost eighty Yeah, oh my god, so close eightie. And

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Speaker 1: she looks good, she looks amazing, and she's still pretty sharp.

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Speaker 1: I think some of the pot smoking may have slown

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Speaker 1: things down just a little bit, but otherwise probably because

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Speaker 1: she wants it to. That's her slow this shit down

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Speaker 1: a little bit. But yeah, I think it's any time

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Speaker 1: of your life you should be learning something new.

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Speaker 2: Also, she's kind of a visionary because the way plants

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Speaker 2: have blown up. And I know that sounds stupid, but

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Speaker 2: it really is true, like the social media kind of

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Speaker 2: trend of I have eight hundred plants in my apartment.

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Speaker 2: It feels like Janet was on the early edge of

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Speaker 2: that trunk.

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Speaker 1: She could be a horticulture influencer now if she wanted to.

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Speaker 1: And it's the thing of too, like something you've always

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Speaker 1: been interested in your whole life, Like we can't go

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Speaker 1: for a walk my entire life without her pointing out

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Speaker 1: a plant and telling me what kind of fucking flower

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Speaker 1: it is or whatever. Yes, so she's like, I love this,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to learn more. Great.

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Speaker 2: You know what's funny is my dad my both of

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Speaker 2: my parents were into plants like that too.

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Speaker 1: And so I was walking somewhere one time and I

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Speaker 1: was like, look at this boog and vilia and everyone

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Speaker 1: thought I was joking and it really was and I

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Speaker 1: was like, Oh, that's so weird. I just had that

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Speaker 1: waiting in there. I love that. I think I call

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Speaker 1: most flowers, Oh, look at that HYDRANGEA is that hydrange?

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Speaker 1: I think I think everything is a hydrange and like

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Speaker 1: nothing's a hydrange And most people are impressed. Nope, they

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Speaker 1: don't fucking know. They don't fucking know. My mom's like

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Speaker 1: you're stupid, and you're like, shut the fuck up you Okay.

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Speaker 2: No, we love you, Janet, and great job, yeah, great

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Speaker 2: job on that trend. Okay, now we're back to this podcast.

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Speaker 1: Yes, here we are. It's true crime.

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Speaker 2: We're getting into Georgia's story and it is about Teresa Nor.

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Speaker 1: The last one we actually did was if I get

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Speaker 1: it before you, Stephen, are fired? Okay, weapon Bush, No,

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Speaker 1: you're going first. Okay, you're not fired, all right. Nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty nine, twenty year old woman named Terry Nor comes

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Speaker 1: to the Utah Police and she has a story for them.

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Speaker 1: She tells them about how eight years before around her

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Speaker 1: mother and two brothers had killed both of her teenage sisters,

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Speaker 1: Terry's teenage sisters, and left their bodies in the mountains

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Speaker 1: near Lake Tahoe. What the fu Yeah, tells him this.

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Speaker 1: She's kind of like, you know, like a druggie, and

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Speaker 1: she's been arrested for like shoplifting, so she's kind of

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Speaker 1: on the outskirts of stuff. So they don't believe her.

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Speaker 1: They're like, you're making shit up, and it's an insane story.

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Speaker 1: So the cops don't believe her, a therapist and a

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Speaker 1: lawyer that she consults don't believe her story. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: she's just like, well, fuck it. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: to do. Then, but then in nineteen eighty three, she

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Speaker 1: watches an episode of America's Most Wanted Calls the hotline

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Speaker 1: that they give. It's like, fuck, it starts bawling, and

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Speaker 1: I guess there's like a woman on the other end

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Speaker 1: of the line who's like, oh my god. And they're

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Speaker 1: like talking, and I'm like, how cool would it have

396
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Speaker 1: been to be an America's Most Wanted fucking call center operator?

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine? Cool?

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Speaker 2: And then also you would have talked to some of

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Speaker 2: the craziest You would have heard some of the craziest stories.

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Speaker 1: Definitely say it that way. Would you rather be? I know,

401
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:54,320
Speaker 1: the answer to this a nine to one to one

402
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Speaker 1: operator or a call cent or name anything or anything

403
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Speaker 1: else in the world. Any Okay, So she calls them

404
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,840
Speaker 1: and this chick's like, well, it's crazy. They talk forever.

405
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Speaker 1: She's like, well, why don't you go to the police

406
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Speaker 1: station that this took the precinct that this took place

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Speaker 1: in because she lived in Utah. Then and they didn't

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Speaker 1: believe her. So she goes to the Placer County Sheriff

409
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:24,200
Speaker 1: and tells authorities what happened, and they start to realize

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Speaker 1: that these details match with two cold cases that had

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Speaker 1: happened eight years before. Oh, and she's giving them details

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Speaker 1: that fits so well that they can't not believe her.

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Speaker 2: I so badly right now want to see video of

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Speaker 2: her to see what her behavior or I can show

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Speaker 2: it to you right now. Well think for real, cold

416
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Speaker 2: case Yle, why don't they What about her do you

417
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Speaker 2: think makes her so unbelievable to the authorities?

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Speaker 1: She definitely seems like the kind of person she's talking about.

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Speaker 1: How she told everyone she would tell anyone who listened

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Speaker 1: this story, and they must have thought that I could

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Speaker 1: see people being like this chick just fucking goes to

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Speaker 1: a dive bar. She's a regular. She tells everyone the story.

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Speaker 1: Nobody believes that it's a crazy story. So she seemed

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Speaker 1: like an alcoholic or like she's a druggie. Yeah, not anymore.

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Speaker 1: Not when she's doing the actual episode, she seems like

426
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 1: she's got her shit together and she's actually incredibly believable. Well,

427
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 1: and also if you went through that, yeah, you get

428
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:29,879
Speaker 1: to drink, you do anything.

429
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 2: I mean, like no, that's the irritating thing about those

430
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 2: kinds of situations. You live through a trauma like that

431
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 2: of like half your family killing the other half, and

432
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,400
Speaker 2: then you're supposed to just be like, oh no, I'm

433
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 2: a really reliable rightness because I'm totally in reality all

434
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 2: the time.

435
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 1: And it's like she's telling the story and she's not

436
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,240
Speaker 1: crying because she had to shut her emotions off from

437
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,160
Speaker 1: all of this so long ago that they're like, you're

438
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 1: telling us this story and you're telling it matter of factly,

439
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 1: and we don't believe you, like even a therapist who

440
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 1: should be able to look past all this stuff. Yeah,

441
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 1: and like call the fucking Lake Tahoe like PD and'd

442
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 1: be like, hey, anyways, well we'll get to her story

443
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 1: and we can talk about that, okay. So that yeah,

444
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 1: there's two never identified Jane Doe's a kind of match

445
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh shit, we should look into this.

446
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 1: So here's the story. So Terry's mom. Her name's Teresa Nor.

447
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 1: She's born in Sacramento, California, and forty six. At age sixteen,

448
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 1: she leaves home to marry a man five years older

449
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,679
Speaker 1: than her, who she had met a few months prior

450
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 1: she drops out of high school. They get and she

451
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:41,879
Speaker 1: gets pregnant. So on July sixth, nineteen sixty four, that

452
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:47,679
Speaker 1: they're arguing and the husband tells Teresa that he's leaving her.

453
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 1: She gets so pissed off she shoots him in the

454
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 1: back with a rifle as he's walking out the door,

455
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 1: killing him. Holy shit. Yeah, she's arrested and charged with

456
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 1: his murder, but she says she's not guilty because it

457
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,120
Speaker 1: was self defy. She says she doesn't tell them what happened. Really,

458
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: like shooting someone in the back, how is that self defense?

459
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 1: So yeah, it doesn't look good now. But during her trial,

460
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 1: she's se pregnant with her second kid, and she claims

461
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 1: that she shot him because he was violent alcoholic who

462
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 1: physically abused her, and she's acquitted of the murder. She

463
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,119
Speaker 1: gives birth to her second kid, Sheila, sixty five, and

464
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 1: after that birth, she beens drinking super heavily. Heavily begins

465
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 1: another relationship with a man named Robert Nore That's how

466
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,919
Speaker 1: she got her last name. She comes pregnant again. They

467
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 1: have a third kid named Susan. Then they have three

468
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 1: more children, William, Robert and Teresa that they named after her,

469
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 1: And that's Terry, that's the girl who Teresa R. Teresa Jr.

470
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 1: As you do? Is your name kind of cool? Yeah?

471
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 1: You know what, I really love the name Virginia. But

472
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: if I ever have a kid, I can't name her

473
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 1: Virginia because my name is Georgia and it would seem

474
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 1: like I'm naming her after myself. And this is my

475
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: son New Jersey. Right, you can't do that. You're just

476
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 1: a vain. But if you had a daughter named her Karen,

477
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 1: I would totally do that. I would do that in

478
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 1: a heartbeat. Weyj come on. Eventually, she they divorce, she

479
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 1: mates another man, they get married. Two months later, they

480
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: divorce and then this is when she starts to go

481
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: fucking crazy and says all the kids. After her fourth divorce,

482
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 1: fourth divorce, six kids, she goes nuts. She starts drinking

483
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 1: more and more, she puts on a ton of weight,

484
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 1: and a super pissed off about it. She starts abusing

485
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: her kids hardcore. Terry said, when we were kids, my

486
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,640
Speaker 1: mom beat the shit out of us. She's like kind

487
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: of awesome, Like you want to hang out with her?

488
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 1: When you see her in this cold case while watch. Yeah,

489
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 1: she's just like, well, they beat it. She beat the

490
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: ever loving fuck out of them, Like she's just so

491
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: matter of fact about it, but like you could tell

492
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: she's just like that a friend that's intense and wants

493
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: to have the late night conversations with you about everything.

494
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: If we hugged my our mom too much, it was like,

495
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,479
Speaker 1: who were we trying to convince that we loved her?

496
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 1: She loved us. On the other hand, if we didn't

497
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 1: hug her and kiss her until her we loved her,

498
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: then we didn't love her, and we were evil children.

499
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 1: We were demon seeds that had been given to her

500
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: by Bob nor So she goes crazy and starts to

501
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: think that her kids are like satanic. Oh, and she

502
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: becomes reclusive and disconnected the home phone and wouldn't let

503
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 1: the kids go out or have visitors. They moved into

504
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: a two bedroom apartment in Sacramento. Can you imagine six

505
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: children and I lived.

506
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 2: In two bedroom apartments with two other roommates and we

507
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 2: all wanted to kill each other, Yeah the whole time.

508
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, it's very hot there the Sacramento always. Yeah,

509
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: probably didn't have they see probably didn't that will make

510
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 1: you go crazy. Swamp coolers, that's what you told me.

511
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 1: We sit around in chairs right next to the swamp

512
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 1: cooler with our armpits up on it. I'd never even

513
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: heard of it. Were like, let's the sun go the hell?

514
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 1: Okay the neighbor and the neighbors say the party was

515
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 1: filthy and smell like urine. Oh so on top of

516
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: all of that, so for years, Teresa abused and tortured

517
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 1: her children and it sounds horrific, including burning them with cigarettes,

518
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: throwing knives at them, beating, and once grabbed Terry by

519
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: the arm and held a twenty two caliber pistol to

520
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 1: her head and told her she was going to kill her.

521
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 2: So chances are that Terry, when she went to finally

522
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 2: report this horrible thing, was totally shut down.

523
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 1: That's why I was like, she wasn't crying. She was

524
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: matter of factly telling the story. And it's like, well, yeah,

525
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: it's seven years old or whatever. She was like, emotions

526
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 1: are not going to help you, No, I bet they

527
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 1: count against you very badly. Yeah, with a mother like that, definitely.

528
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 1: So she Yeah, she had no emotional attachment to this

529
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: story at that point, which is insane. This story reminds

530
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 1: me of Sylvia Lichens, that horrible story I covered a

531
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 1: while ago. Yeah, and that the mom maid would make

532
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: the other kids beat up one of them, so she

533
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: would make them be involved in it, so that they

534
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 1: were part of it, you know. And that's probably part

535
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 1: of why Terry was so fucking shut down, is like

536
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 1: she kind of had a hand in it, and her

537
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 1: in her mind thinking she was responsible to even though

538
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 1: you're obviously not. Yeah. So there's like talk of incest.

539
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: It's brought up like one or two articles, but they

540
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: don't The word incest comes up, but they don't go

541
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: into details at all. So I don't really know how

542
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 1: truthful that is or to what extent that is. Let's

543
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 1: see bah bah bah bah bah. Okay, So she primarily

544
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: started to focus her anger and abuse on the two

545
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: oldest daughters, Susan and Shila, and according to Terry, Teresa

546
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 1: resented that Susan and Sheila were maturing and becoming attractive

547
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 1: young women while she was becoming older and couldn't lose

548
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: any weight. Terry kind of explains it like that, but

549
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: it's clearly so much more deep seated than that. She's

550
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: a monster. Insane person and bad, I'll go like a

551
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: degenerating alcoholic. Right, and yeah, there's luck.

552
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 2: Probably parts of her brain are going soft because of

553
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 2: the drinking. Yeah, if it's been going on for long enough. Yeah,

554
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 2: I learned that on Sober House.

555
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: That can happen to you. How Oh my god, but

556
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: excuse me while I say, take a sip of my

557
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: tea that's got whiskey in it. But that makes perfect sense.

558
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 2: And also, I bet you the sons it's like every

559
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 2: movie you've ever seen about an abuse a parent where

560
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 2: eventually the sixteen year old boy turns around and goes,

561
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 2: I'll beat the shit out of you if you touch

562
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 2: me again.

563
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: Right. The girls can't probably can't do that exactly. Yeah,

564
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: and yeah, and the beating the boys, you know, start

565
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: beating them up and probably avoid their mother beating the

566
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: shit out of them because they're part of it. You know.

567
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 1: It's it's really horrific. Yeah, especially yeah, so she would

568
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: so because of this, she would start administering forced feedings

569
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: to the girls, which can you imagine that kind of

570
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: fucking torture? Sorry, because they were young and pretty and thin,

571
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: so she would give them force feedings. She would make

572
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: boxes and boxes of like mac and cheese, you know,

573
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: like the mac and cheese, and put spoonfuls of lart

574
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: in it, and they sit there and make them eat

575
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: all of it, and sucks to a point where one

576
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: of the girls had her front teeth were broken because

577
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: of the forcing for the holy shit, Yeah, that's a

578
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: hard thing to do, to eat like that, or to

579
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: break your teeth really, yeah, I mean I've never done it. Yeah,

580
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,959
Speaker 1: it's it's not it's pretty solid. Oh my god, oh

581
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ. All right, So and if you threw up, yeah,

582
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: to eat it like force, you know, when you eat

583
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: so much you get full, and it's so fucking painful

584
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: and horrible. Can you I think that to me? Is

585
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: it's such a telling torture. But also it's so self serving. Yeah,

586
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: it's it's yeah, fun, it's really really sad. So she

587
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: so Teresa started to believe that her fourth husband had

588
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 1: turned Susan, one of the older daughters, into a witch,

589
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: because so she really received them worse of Teresa's abuse.

590
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: After one severe beating, Susan ran away from home and

591
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: she was picked up by police and placed in a

592
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: psychiatric hospital, and she told the staff of the abuse

593
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: at the hands of her mother, and Teresa denies the

594
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: abuse and told the hospital staff that Susan had mental issues,

595
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: so they didn't investigate, and they released Susan back to

596
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: her mother. Oh, as they do in the eighties. Yep,

597
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: how old was Susan? Sorry? I think she was a teenager.

598
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: A lot of the details of like age in that

599
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: thin year and that sort of thing is hazy, probably

600
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: because Terry's with the one giving them the info and

601
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of oh right, you know, there's

602
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: not a lot of info to back it up, so

603
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: it's hard to tell. So of course Susan's super punished

604
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: for this. She gets beatings with while they wear a

605
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: pair of leather gloves. I don't understand, like this part

606
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: is in a couple of the articles. Is it makes

607
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: it more painful, I would imagine, I don't know. I

608
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: thought maybe you would know, like, oh, yeah, leather whatever,

609
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: not slapping gloves, slapping with gloves like a British gentleman. No,

610
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: they like put leather gloves on and beat her up.

611
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: I wonder if it like delivers a punch her. I

612
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: don't know. Someone will tell us she also forced her Okay,

613
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: so they all had to beat her up. She got

614
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: handcuffed to the bed and the other children had to

615
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: stand guard and watch her make sure she didn't get

616
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: out of there. The handcuffs aren't enough, I know, she

617
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: makes she makes her drop out of school. Everyone drops

618
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: out of school. And they're all in like high school.

619
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: Oh none of them got past eighth grade. Oh no,

620
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 1: so this all happened before eighth grade. Oh fuck yeah,

621
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: that's really young, okay, very And they were homeschooled, of course,

622
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: based on the Bible, and they had and then Theresa

623
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: had a thing called the Board of Education and it

624
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: was a paddling board that said the Board of Education

625
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: on it. And they did something wrong. I've heard of that,

626
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: have you.

627
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, people's parents having that. Really Yep, it's a funny

628
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 2: abuse of pun Oh, I know, it's it's cute.

629
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: It's like makes it hm man, I got I got

630
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: hit with a wodenspoon as a kid a lot, and

631
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: it is so fucking painful, is it really? I know,

632
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: like it's it's kind of it seemed it's like a

633
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: cute thing, right that, Like you got to spank your

634
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: children and everyone acts like it's this is how you

635
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: teach them how to be a good person. So I

636
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: get spanked a lot as a kid with both a

637
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: windspoon and a hand. It fucking hurts, and it's terrifying,

638
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: and the parent is really pissed off while they're doing it.

639
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: So it's not like a teaching a lesson. It's you.

640
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: I am so fucking angry at you. It's an adult

641
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: out of control with a child. Yeah. Well, and also

642
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: it was very fucking common back then. Yeah it was.

643
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: It was not only common for people to get a

644
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: well abused. They didn't. They still a lot of people

645
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: don't think that's abuse, right, But also other people's parents

646
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: would would slap kids or you know, spank them. It

647
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: was always this idea of spanking, like on the butt

648
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: was less bad. It's they call it a smack. I

649
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: don't know why am I over sharing this stuff. Well,

650
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: it's very relevant and I'm sure it brought up. This

651
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: story brought up a lot of shift for you. Yeah,

652
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: that's fucked up. Yeah, I hope my mom doesn't assume

653
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: me deformation ship. No one's going to go to fucking

654
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: little house of horror cultures, or damn it should I not.

655
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: It's gonna go in my memory. Anyways, somebody as well

656
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 1: to say it on the podcast. No, I'm kidding, Okay,

657
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 1: So let's get to the fucking ship. There have an

658
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: argument in nineteen eighty three, Teresa shoots Susan in the

659
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: chest during this argument. Fuck, the bullet gets lodged in

660
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: her back. Teresa makes the suns put her in the bathtub,

661
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 1: and Susan gets nurse back to health by her mother.

662
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:21,399
Speaker 1: What yep, she doesn't die, but it all takes place

663
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: at home. Yeah, good God in a hell hole. Yeah,

664
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 1: and Terry says that this was the only time that

665
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: she didn't see her mother hitting Susan, so it was

666
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: almost like nursing her back to health made her feel

667
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,399
Speaker 1: motherly and needed, and so she wasn't abusive. Fuck isn't

668
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 1: that insane?

669
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 2: That's where were the fucking neighbors or I mean gunshots

670
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 2: are taking here?

671
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, the house. They showed a photo of the

672
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: house that they moved into, the like two bedroom. It

673
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: definitely looks secluded, oh like in a Sacramento kind of way.

674
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: I was picturing it as like apartments. No, yeah, it's

675
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: an a They call it an apartment, but it's not. Okay,

676
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: it's like a two bedroom, small place, okay, and it

677
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,919
Speaker 1: looks like it's you know, out in wherever. Yeah, yeah,

678
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: you know. So okay. So she's a nurse back to health.

679
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 1: She survives, and in nineteen eighty four she works up

680
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 1: the courage and tells her mom she wants to move out,

681
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: and Teresa says, okay, you can move out, but you

682
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 1: have to let me remove the bullet from your back

683
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: because if you tell on me, that can be used

684
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 1: as evidence. This is where I think, right, it's unbelievable.

685
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: I know. I was like, maybe this week I'll do

686
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: like an old timey murder that's like a little more Nope.

687
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 1: And then I was like, oh, I found this and

688
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: I have to do it. It's incredible, it's insane. So

689
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: Teresa Susan agrees. They put her down on the kitchen

690
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: floor and Terry says, I was basically the nurse. I

691
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,879
Speaker 1: had to administer all these things. But either the brother

692
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: or Teresa took the bullet out I can't really tell.

693
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: But they fed her a ton of liquor and malaurel capsules.

694
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 1: Do you know what those are? Imagine they're sleeping pill

695
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 1: Tell she's out cold, and then take the bullet out

696
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 1: and flush it down the toilet. Go right. Infection sets in.

697
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: Susan's skin turns yellow from jarndice. They handcuff her to

698
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: the kitchen table and she lays dying on the floor.

699
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: This git's really horrific. Teresa tells her kids that Susan

700
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: was possessed by Satan and the only way to purge

701
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: the demon was with fire. Oh no, she makes Robert

702
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: and Bill the brothers drive Susan to Sierra Nevada Interstate eighty.

703
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: Do you know where that is? So it's like out

704
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 1: in the wilderness, right.

705
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 2: Yes, well the eighty If from Sacramento, you take the

706
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 2: eighty events, then you're I think, yeah, pretty sand Yeah, okay,

707
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 2: it's I'm pretty sure it's on the.

708
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: Way up to the mountains. Like yeah, if I'm not,

709
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 1: that sounds the wrong. It's like toward Roosevelt. Okay, all right.

710
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,320
Speaker 1: They had packed all of her possessions into trash bags.

711
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: They pull over, they put the trash bags down, They

712
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: they put Susan on top of them. Then they poured

713
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: gasoline and they let her on fire. Is she still alive? Yeah?

714
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: I wasn't going to say anything. Well, you have to

715
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: tell the whole story. No, that's you have stole, I know,

716
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: and I think she was like, to me, nothing is

717
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: worse than what those are. Those, for some reason are

718
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: the worst to me is being lit on fire by

719
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: your fucking family. Yeah, but dying of fire to me

720
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,839
Speaker 1: is specifically horrific. Yeah. I can't that's like the one.

721
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: I can't really think of that, and I'm doing a

722
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 1: story about it. They've just a warning on cold case

723
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: files that they show her. Oh, they show the fucking

724
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: crime scene photos. So she's found. They put the fire out.

725
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: They have no idea who she is. They they think

726
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 1: that okay, they have no idea she is. They make

727
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: a they make a drawing of what they think that

728
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: she looks like. Fucking case goes cold. They have no

729
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: idea who she is. And back at home, so it's

730
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,919
Speaker 1: the like. A year later, late spring of eighty five,

731
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: Teresa starts to make her now twenty year old daughter Sheila,

732
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: work as a sex worker. She like pimps her out

733
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 1: and she's earning hundreds of dollars a day, and Teresa

734
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: almost seems like she's proud of her, and she eased

735
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 1: up on the daily beatings and she's sheel is actually

736
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: out to come and go as she pleases, which is rare.

737
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: And then Teresa accuses Sheila of giving Teresa an STD

738
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:09,439
Speaker 1: through the toilet seat, and so she beats her, hog

739
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:14,240
Speaker 1: ties her, and locks her in a like tiny broom closet.

740
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: It's hot as fuck, there's no ventilation, and she forbids

741
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,320
Speaker 1: her other children to give Shila food or water or

742
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: to open the closet door. And Terry one day, when

743
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 1: she was gone, disobeys her in hands and gives her

744
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 1: a beer, which is almost like you can imagine, that's

745
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 1: probably all there was in the house. Yes, And she's

746
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 1: this like kid, this teenage kid, who's like, doesn't know

747
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 1: what else to do. Here's a beer. So she I

748
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: guess Teresa just said she wanted Shila to confess, but

749
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: either way she's gonna get beaten. And so she does confess.

750
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: She doesn't believe her, and so she eventually dies in

751
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: the closet. Oh my god. Yeah, So three days later

752
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 1: she dies dehydration and starvation. They leave her body in

753
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,280
Speaker 1: the closet for an additional three days before even discovering

754
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:09,280
Speaker 1: that she's dead. So the mom and son puts the body.

755
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: Her body in a cardboard box, tapes it shut, and

756
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: they take it to the mountains where they dumped it

757
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: near Trucky the Trucky airport, and then they get back

758
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 1: to the apartment and realize the smell hasn't gone away,

759
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,919
Speaker 1: and so Teresa orders Terry to set the apartment on fire.

760
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: This one is a fucking lunatic. Guess what, she's still alive?

761
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: What she's still alive Teresa, Oh the lunatic mom oh

762
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: to this day. Yeah, oh sorry. For a second, I

763
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: was like, that was like the crazy twist. No, no, no,

764
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,919
Speaker 1: there's sadly no crazy twist. Okay, okay, but the dead

765
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: the dying, and dead is dying at this point, I mean,

766
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: this is this is You were not about this. I

767
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: know when you said the name, it sounds familiar. How

768
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,320
Speaker 1: have you not heard about this? I know, isn't that crazy?

769
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 1: It sounds super familiar. But yeah, but I didn't. I

770
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: don't know these details at all. But this might be

771
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: when your parents like were like, we're not watching the

772
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: news for a while. Yeah, but eighty five. I would

773
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:10,879
Speaker 1: have like if that, if I heard that on the news,

774
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: then I would have been like, but here's the thing

775
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: about eighty five. Is that those are just when the

776
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: bodies were found two separate bodies and oh cases, and

777
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: there were cold cases and they weren't even linked. Okay,

778
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: I think that the investigator on cold case files I

779
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, we talked to them, or like this

780
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 1: is weird, but they died in totally different ways. But

781
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 1: there were two young teenagers, but they didn't put it together. Yeah,

782
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: so you wouldn't have heard much. Okay, that's right. This

783
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 1: she didn't come forward until ninety three, but you still

784
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,919
Speaker 1: you were in Sacramento, then stop it. I couldn't have known.

785
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 1: Oh I'm not blaming you. I'm just talking about how

786
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 1: fucking weird it is that this is like one of

787
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: the most insane cases I've ever heard of child abuse

788
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 1: and we've never heard of it. Right, I've moved. I

789
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 1: was in San Francisco by night oh three, which just

790
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: makes me want That made me want to tell the

791
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: story more because it's like.

792
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 2: No, I couldn't see it the fuck because it's this weird,

793
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,280
Speaker 2: Oh my god, like that idea of the crazy alcoholic

794
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,399
Speaker 2: mom that keeps everybody in the house like no one's

795
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 2: in school and it's just mayhem and.

796
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: An ugly, sad place of constant torture. Someone that just

797
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: shoots people like what I mean, kills her. It's just

798
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 1: so crazy that it's one person against five, and she

799
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: is so manipulative and insane and dangerous and scary that

800
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 1: she's able to tell her sons to go kill their

801
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:33,320
Speaker 1: sister and they obey. It's their mother, Yeah, it's their primary.

802
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: It's horrible, yeah, and it's all they've ever known. Yeah,

803
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 1: all right, So she tells her to light the apartment

804
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: on fire in the middle of the night. She sprinkles

805
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 1: lighter fluid around the apartment and lights it on fire.

806
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: But it didn't spread because I think there because there

807
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 1: were neighbors. So apparently there were neighbors. Who knows. So

808
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 1: the fire department responds, there's not a lot of damage.

809
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 1: Shila's body has discovered a few hours after it had

810
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 1: been disposed of in the box by fucking poor fishermen.

811
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 1: To Jesus, can you imagine? And they show that too

812
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 1: on Cold Case. But I was like, I was so surprised.

813
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:10,439
Speaker 1: And I was sitting here with Vince and he looks

814
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: up right when that happens, and I was like, don't look,

815
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: don't look. Like, so I was like, you're gonna think,

816
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: I said, don't look, because you're gonna think I'm fucking

817
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: insane that I'm watching this. He doesn't want to see.

818
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: He like went in the other room, knows you're insane. Yes,

819
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 1: that just quick as he does. You're right, he likes

820
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: wrestling so exactly. Every always got their thing. Yeah right, okay,

821
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:36,320
Speaker 1: they again classified as a Jane Doe. After leaving the

822
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 1: Sacramento apartment, they go, they all go into hiding. They

823
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: finally it's that the lighting on fire is finally their

824
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 1: ticket out of there, and they all break up and

825
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: spread around and she and Terry gets to escape her mom. Wow.

826
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:56,800
Speaker 1: At sixteen, the mom relocates to Vegas with one of

827
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:00,399
Speaker 1: the sons, Robert norr And in ninety one and he's

828
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: arrested after fatally shooting a bartender in a Las Vegas

829
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 1: during an attempted robbery. I know, like these are like

830
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: these are born and bred criminals that are like now

831
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 1: go out into the world to just reiin free. Yeah,

832
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 1: good luck with having any kind of normal life. Yeah,

833
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: you any conflict do you have You're going to start shooting? Yeah, Terry,

834
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: I mean, God bless her. She seems she seems like

835
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: she was able to straighten her fucking life out. It's

836
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 1: unbelievable that she is able. I mean, watch it, just

837
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 1: to like hear her talk. I can't wait. So they

838
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 1: moved back, then they moved to So he goes to

839
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,359
Speaker 1: prison for sixteen years. Mom relocates to Salt Lake City,

840
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 1: where she becomes a caretaker, an elderly woman's caretaker. This

841
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 1: dude hires her to take care of his mother. Alien

842
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 1: mother lives there. And when okay, let me keep telling this, Okay,

843
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 1: this is that's going to turn out bad?

844
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 2: Right?

845
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: No? Oh, okay, no, it turns out like it turns out,

846
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: and that we had no idea. I mean, so no,

847
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 1: no one else gets killed. Okay, good. So Terry takes

848
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 1: Shila's identification car and to pass herself off as a

849
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 1: legal adult, like she becomes you do what you gotta do? Yes. So,

850
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: when she finally goes to share her story and they

851
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: finally believe her because of her detailed descriptions down to

852
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: the chip teeth of the Jane Doo they had, because

853
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: the box that Sheila was put in they knew was

854
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 1: that was the only piece of evidence they had it

855
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: was a box from a movie theater of like popcorn buckets.

856
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 1: So they went to every movie theater and was like,

857
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:41,959
Speaker 1: is this your brand? Is this your box? And it wasn't.

858
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 1: And it turns out that Robert worked at a movie

859
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: theater when they and had taken the box from movie theater,

860
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 1: so even that corroborated everything. Just these details, everything matched.

861
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,839
Speaker 1: So the detectives also took out the subfloor that had

862
00:45:55,880 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 1: been stained with Shila's body to test it and and uh.

863
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,399
Speaker 1: In November ninety three, Teresa Nora's arrested at her home

864
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: in Salt Lake City where she fucking lives with this

865
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 1: elderly mother, and the son who had hired her was like,

866
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 1: we had no idea. She was a sweet old lady. Yeah,

867
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: she did some weird shit, and she said she liked

868
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 1: taking care of my mom because she had or she

869
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 1: liked she was like really motherly to my grandkid, to

870
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: my children who were daughters, because she said she had

871
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 1: always wanted a daughter of her own and only had sons.

872
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: Oh my, So he didn't believe it for a long time.

873
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,399
Speaker 1: Okay you know what I mean? Yeah, because like he left,

874
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 1: you're like the guilty were leaving your mom with a

875
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: fucking murderer. Yeah, it'd be pretty high. Yeah, you got

876
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 1: to turn around to face that. Ooh, you're not a

877
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 1: good judge of character. It turns out. It turns out

878
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 1: you don't know your shit. You thought you were engage

879
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 1: your gut. Yeah, listen to your heart.

880
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 2: Eyes open, please, eyes open, heart, make a reference. See

881
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 2: these days we have LinkedIn that would never happen. Okay, Well,

882
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 2: she's heart.

883
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,320
Speaker 1: She's charged with two counts of murder, to counts of

884
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 1: conspiracy to commit murder, to special circumstance charges, multiple murder,

885
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: and multiple murder by torture. William is sentenced to probation

886
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 1: to under and to undergo therapy therapy for participating in

887
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: Sheila's murder and an exchangorous testimony. The prosecution dropped all

888
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 1: charges against Robert Say for one count of being an

889
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 1: accessory after the fact in Sheila's murder and also the

890
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: mom was like, I'll plead guilty. Teresa was like, I'll

891
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 1: plead guilty if you let my son's off. Were you

892
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 1: I have a hard Okay, here's where I have a

893
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 1: hard time with. Do the sons deserve anything? I mean,

894
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:39,240
Speaker 1: at what point in their age.

895
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 2: I'm not I feel like I am not qualified to

896
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 2: debate that in any way except.

897
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 1: I just want to bring it up because I can't

898
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:50,399
Speaker 1: give a judgment either way. Well, my like, my first

899
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: reaction is they don't because they were raised to kill people.

900
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,840
Speaker 1: This woman, they had no choice. It was out of

901
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 1: fear at that point and mind control that did it. Yes,

902
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 1: and just the taught reactions of this is normal living. Yea.

903
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 1: But when you say that, then you basically there's so

904
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 1: many murderers that you can say that about because they

905
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: had equally nightmarish childhoods so they could actually yeah, exactly,

906
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 1: It's nothing as black and white, right, So like, yeah,

907
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy was like abused and sexually molested, but he

908
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 1: still held responsible for what he did. It's almost like, well,

909
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: at the point where they're eighteen and on, then are

910
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: they responsible? No?

911
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 2: No, No, I think for Ted Bundy, I think it's

912
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 2: like once you've killed your twelfth woman, it's on you.

913
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 1: No. I mean I'm saying these boys, I don't think

914
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 1: they would have lived these lives. Definitely not.

915
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 2: They wouldn't have killed their own sisters if their mother

916
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 2: didn't make them participate.

917
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 1: Definitely. I would guess that. I mean, that's like to me,

918
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,320
Speaker 1: it's like the beatings and that sort of thing. No,

919
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 1: they're not held responsible for that, but the murder is

920
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 1: the same. It's all the mother's doing. I know, And

921
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 1: I know people are gonna argue with me and be like,

922
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: you're blame, You're victim blaming for sure, right, which I

923
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 1: understand and I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just like,

924
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 1: how what point do we at? What point is it?

925
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: Is there a period at the end of the well,

926
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 1: that's what judges and juries and all those people that

927
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: look at all the information. That's the point definitely where

928
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: they go, Okay, is this a person that had, you know,

929
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 1: was forced into this horrible life and entire lifestyle? Is

930
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: this person that liked it?

931
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 2: Is this the person that didn't just kill sisters but

932
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 2: then went on and attacked people in the neighborhood or like.

933
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:36,800
Speaker 1: And wanted and yeah, So Teresa pleads guilty. Pleads guilty

934
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:42,399
Speaker 1: because of that and on the conditional so that she's

935
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 1: spared the death penalty, just like fuck you, that it

936
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,399
Speaker 1: can be like period about fuck you. In October ninety five,

937
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 1: she sentenced to two consecutive life sentences. She's incarcerating California

938
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 1: Institute for Women in Chino, So she's fucking in. Is

939
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: that the Inland Empire? She's in the FA Yeah, I

940
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 1: don't know. It might be she'll be should go I

941
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 1: should go there now and go to Ivy League school.

942
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: She'll be eligible for parole in twenty twenty seven. If

943
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 1: she lives to see it, she'll be eighty years old.

944
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 1: Oh shit, she's still alive. I wonder if she's drinking

945
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 1: inside in the clink, some fucking how some wine, some

946
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 1: toilet wine. Would you take a sip of that? If

947
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 1: someone made you? Not made you, but if you were

948
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 1: like dared. No, I don't really respond to daring. That's

949
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:31,879
Speaker 1: not my job. Yeah. You don't seem like a person

950
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 1: who no would be challenging? No? Uh? I mean are

951
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 1: you saying?

952
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 2: Would would I even be curious about the experience and

953
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 2: what toilet wine tastes like?

954
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 1: I guess the word toilet is a hard No, it

955
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 1: ruins it. I mean, would I have wine in a bucket?

956
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,319
Speaker 1: Make raisin wine in a bucket? That's quite clean? Yeah.

957
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 1: The first time ever that the bucket was used was

958
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 1: for the prison, which I'm sure they have access to

959
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 1: clean buckets. Then yes, yeah, I'm sure there's a whole

960
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 1: program set up. But I would want to taste what

961
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 1: non toilet created prison wine tasted, like, I agree, and

962
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: that would be fascinating. I can't imagine there's a ton

963
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 1: of prisoners who are like yes to toilet wine themselves.

964
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:19,920
Speaker 1: I'm an alcoholic, but I won't I drink. No, I'm

965
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:22,359
Speaker 1: gonna say no to toilet wine. Who knows? Who knows?

966
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 1: I mean, But anyway, I you've got to do what

967
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,240
Speaker 1: you gotta do. Fuck Teresa nor God, that was crazy.

968
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 1: She's awful. I don't yeah, so I yeah, it's watched

969
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 1: The Cold Case while I will. And did you know

970
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 1: they're all they're all streaming on You can get them

971
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 1: on demand somewhere, not on demand, but like on your DVR. No,

972
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 1: wait on like if you have Apple or oh yeah,

973
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 1: every single one is on except for that one. Are

974
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: you serious to go to YouTube to find it? It's

975
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: on YouTube. It's so dark.

976
00:51:57,560 --> 00:51:59,439
Speaker 2: It makes it extra dark when you're from the place

977
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 2: where you hear the story because you can put it here.

978
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 1: I can picture her house dress. I kept asking, like

979
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:05,879
Speaker 1: me in it. I was like, I'm gonna ask Karen

980
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 1: where this is. It's just insane. Yeah, can picture her house,

981
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 1: dressed like a flowery nurses like big, dirty, dirty kind

982
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 1: of like country powder blue. Yeah, slipper like little tiny

983
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,840
Speaker 1: flowers on it. Yeah, slippers essentially what I fucking wear ofday.

984
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 1: Let's be honest. Oh man, she bought it up. Pick

985
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:29,280
Speaker 1: and say it's dark. It's dark. There's bad vibes.

986
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:35,879
Speaker 2: Okay, we're back. Are there any updates on this case?

987
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 1: I have some updates on this horrifying story after dispersing.

988
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 1: Terry and Teresa both lived in Salt Lake City, but

989
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 1: didn't know the other was there. Terry was working at

990
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 1: a grocery store in the neighborhood that Teresa lived in

991
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: prior to her arrest, and after Teresa's arrest, she was

992
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:54,800
Speaker 1: investigated for the nineteen eighty three unsolved murder case of

993
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 1: her older sister, Rosemary Norris, who was found strangled to death.

994
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,360
Speaker 1: The police determined she was uninvolved with this murder and

995
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:07,320
Speaker 1: it remains unsolved. How frustrating. Terry nor died in twenty

996
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 1: eleven at age forty one.

997
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:11,879
Speaker 2: It's such a dark story, I know, like those early

998
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 2: ones that we did. It's just the worst of humanity

999
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 2: truly so crazy, no.

1000
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 1: No, nothing, right, yeah, well, speaking of, let's get into

1001
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:27,320
Speaker 1: Karen's true crime stories featuring Persian Mummy, Chloe Ailing, Robert Hevrilla,

1002
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 1: and Kim Wall.

1003
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 2: Well, these are just because people very often tweet us,

1004
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 2: have you read this, have you seen this? And there

1005
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 2: are things that are happening modern day, right, and they're

1006
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 2: often like the craziest or the most fascinating kind of

1007
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 2: true crime of today, and we don't always talk about it,

1008
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 2: which I know, it's like it's what a lot of

1009
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 2: people are in it for.

1010
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I wish we could do There's so many

1011
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:00,760
Speaker 1: of those and like this is insane, but there's no detail. Yeah, exactly,

1012
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:02,319
Speaker 1: it's a breaking story. Right.

1013
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 2: So what I did was I started my this week's murder,

1014
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 2: didn't I wasn't making any good kind of like strategic

1015
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 2: decisions as I was watching the case because I stumbled

1016
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:21,400
Speaker 2: upon a BBC show that it was a reddit.

1017
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 1: It was a Reddit link to a.

1018
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:28,839
Speaker 2: BBC show called BBC Horizons that I think has been

1019
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 2: on in England for a long time. This is what

1020
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 2: it looked like because there's like each each one had

1021
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 2: different opening credits. That one looked like nineteen seventy eight

1022
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 2: and one looked like the nineties.

1023
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 1: It's like they're unsolved mysteries.

1024
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so it was like the Mystery of blank.

1025
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 2: So like, there's a thing in Florida called the Florida Circle.

1026
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've ever heard of that.

1027
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: But I was watching half of that when I was like,

1028
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 1: stop watching TV because it was like, oh my god,

1029
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 1: can you get it online? I mean, where can you

1030
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:58,320
Speaker 1: get it? You can, it's just put into see here's

1031
00:54:58,320 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 1: the problem. It was a Reddit link.

1032
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 2: So I was watching off of that and then suddenly

1033
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:07,279
Speaker 2: the titles started turning Russian writing, and then at one

1034
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:10,399
Speaker 2: point I tried to click off and then it turned

1035
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,439
Speaker 2: into like a Russian looking Facebook page.

1036
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 1: Oh exact, it said something like the name of it.

1037
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 2: It wasn't Facebook. It was like okay, summertime. And I

1038
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 2: was like, oh, I should throw this computer away.

1039
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 1: Absolutely, they're watching you. But but I only have half

1040
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 1: my script done, so I have to keep it for

1041
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 1: a little while. But I mean, like, yeah, yeah, I

1042
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 1: made a terrible you know, click links on Reddit. But

1043
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 1: I did, Yes, you do well.

1044
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 2: Anyway, it's fun party Reddit, it stated, makes it exciting

1045
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 2: so so anyway, the story that I was watching and

1046
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 2: going to do isn't really a murder, like it's a

1047
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 2: lot of It's a fascinating story about a mummy that

1048
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 2: they found in in Iran, that or the seller was

1049
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 2: in Iran that had it, and and it turned out

1050
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 2: it was from Pakistan, and that was it was like

1051
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 2: it was very newsworthy because the only mummies I've ever

1052
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 2: been from Egypt.

1053
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:15,280
Speaker 1: Egypt is the only place that did the ancient mummification ritual,

1054
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 1: so this one might have been stolen so.

1055
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 2: Well they were they didn't know, and it was like,

1056
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 2: look kind of weird and different, and then you see it.

1057
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:24,360
Speaker 2: It's like it's it drew me in so quickly.

1058
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:26,359
Speaker 1: And then it was like but it was it turned

1059
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:32,360
Speaker 1: into a like ancient Persia fucking Xerxes, like it was

1060
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 1: the reading the cuneiform writing on it said that it

1061
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 1: was the daughter of Xerxes, who was the ruler of

1062
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 1: the of the Persian Empire. I mean, it's all this shit.

1063
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 1: I have no idea what I'm actually saying right now. Smart,

1064
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,239
Speaker 1: we sound really smart. The BBC can do that for you, Yeah,

1065
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:52,280
Speaker 1: they can watch one special.

1066
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 2: Anyway, it turned out so this woman who's actually I mean,

1067
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:58,720
Speaker 2: I guess I'll just I wasn't going.

1068
00:56:58,600 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 1: To talk about this one at all.

1069
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:04,240
Speaker 2: But it's really cool because the woman who started looking

1070
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 2: into it was a scientist named Ozma Abraham, and she

1071
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 2: taught herself how to read cuneiforms so that she could

1072
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 2: figure out what it said on the on the.

1073
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 1: Stone coffin part, oh my gosh.

1074
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 2: And then that's how she figured out it said I'm

1075
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 2: the daughter of Xerxes, so it was this Persian princess

1076
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 2: from the ancient Persian Empire. And but then she was

1077
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:31,480
Speaker 2: like looking at all the details whatever. She's sending things

1078
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 2: off to experts all around the world. So they have

1079
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 2: the cuneiform expert in London, they have, they send the

1080
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 2: matt that's underneath the actual mummy off to to get

1081
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 2: carbon dated.

1082
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 1: They do all these things right, and then they and

1083
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 1: then there.

1084
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 2: Is a scientist that's in I think it said he's

1085
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 2: the leading archaeologist in Iran, and he was. He's the

1086
00:57:57,440 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 2: one that came out and said, we don't have mummies

1087
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 2: and Iran, and they don't have them in Pakistan. They

1088
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 2: are only from Egypt. Therefore, if this is a Persian princess.

1089
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 2: Then that changes like history, but that means that there

1090
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 2: must be it was just this whole thing, right. Well,

1091
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 2: then as the information starts to come back and this

1092
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 2: doctor Ibrahim is investigating everything, she's starting to notice little

1093
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:28,440
Speaker 2: like we're quirky, things are standing out.

1094
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the cuneiform looks weird and she, you know,

1095
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 1: that's why she sent it to the guy in London

1096
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:38,920
Speaker 1: that was the expert and she, uh, you know, there's.

1097
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 2: Like that little differences in the mummification process or whatever.

1098
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 2: And eventually they come to find out they send it

1099
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:51,439
Speaker 2: off to get X rayed because they were like, well,

1100
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 2: in the Egyptian mummification process, they empty out the body

1101
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 2: of the internal organs, they dry out the inner body,

1102
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 2: they put a drying agent in it. They put the

1103
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 2: heart back in because the heart is where the heart

1104
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 2: is where your brain they believed your brain was. So

1105
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 2: when cram that brain out, you gotta have that brain.

1106
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 2: They pull your actual brain out for your nose, right yep.

1107
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 1: They stick a thing in there and they basically mix

1108
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 1: your brain around until it's jelly and your brain runs

1109
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 1: out your nose. No no, no, no, no nos, yes,

1110
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 1: but you still have your heart which is your real brain,

1111
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 1: which I thought was very beautiful. Yeah, and so when

1112
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 1: they X rayed it the heart was in there. It

1113
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:35,480
Speaker 1: was no there were no internal organs. It was all

1114
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 1: the things. The brain was, you know whatever. But they

1115
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 1: start to notice, like the Egyptians, it was very it's

1116
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 1: like surgical precision. So the incision that they would make

1117
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 1: to take the inner organs out was three inches, this

1118
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 1: one was eight on this body. So it's a novice, right.

1119
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 2: They the Egyptians would go up the nose to do

1120
00:59:56,560 --> 01:00:00,560
Speaker 2: that mixing thing with the brain. They on this had

1121
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:04,280
Speaker 2: broken all these bones up in the palette, so they

1122
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 2: had done it.

1123
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 1: It's not the way because this was like a sacred ritual.

1124
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 1: So they don't just like fuck it up, especially if

1125
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 1: it's like a princess.

1126
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 2: Especially, yes, exactly, especially Xerxes daughter he was from. According

1127
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 2: to that one, it's a huge movie. He was humongous.

1128
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 1: Okay.

1129
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:31,480
Speaker 2: So then doctor asa Osma Ibraham finds pencil lines on

1130
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 2: the outer wooden box. Pencils were invented two hundred and

1131
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 2: fifty years ago or three hundred years ago, I think

1132
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 2: she said.

1133
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 1: Or they said lead pencils. So they're like, this is

1134
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 1: a total, this is bullshit.

1135
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 2: Then they get the carbon dating from the mat that

1136
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 2: was underneath the mummy back and it was made fifty

1137
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:54,440
Speaker 2: years ago, so.

1138
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:57,600
Speaker 1: They're like, what the fuck is this? So then they

1139
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 1: get a doctor to cut it open. Oh.

1140
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:03,840
Speaker 2: Also, they had taken CT scans just so they could

1141
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 2: see inside like the X ray. The X ray shows

1142
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 2: you like through, but then the set scans it's like

1143
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:13,200
Speaker 2: cut all the way down. They can see each into

1144
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 2: the light little slice, and that's how they've discovered that

1145
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 2: the body that had been mummified, this spine was broken

1146
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 2: in two places, at the neck and at the lower back.

1147
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:25,040
Speaker 1: And oh my god, Oh my god.

1148
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they're like, okay, this is not this Persian princess.

1149
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 2: Oh what was her name, like Rodriga or something really

1150
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 2: hard to pronounce. And they open up the mummy and

1151
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 2: you can see it on this show.

1152
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 1: To show it so fucking cool. They're curling cut it open.

1153
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:48,360
Speaker 1: This doctor. They just saw it open like with a

1154
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:48,959
Speaker 1: bone saw.

1155
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 2: Well, because the outer cloth that the mummy is wrapped in,

1156
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 2: so the you're bandaged like a Halloween mummy outside your

1157
01:01:57,640 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 2: arms are crossed.

1158
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:02,200
Speaker 1: Over your chest. That's how you know it's royalty huh.

1159
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 2: And then and then they wrapped the whole body in

1160
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 2: a resin saturated cry so it heart and that's what

1161
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:09,520
Speaker 2: makes it hard, got it?

1162
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 1: So it's to cut that open. They pull it apart,

1163
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:17,120
Speaker 1: and she had gray hair, huh. And it was a woman.

1164
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:22,920
Speaker 2: And they actually made a computer generated image of what

1165
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 2: her face might look like based on so cool and

1166
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:27,680
Speaker 2: they do that, I know, right, based on the skull,

1167
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:30,840
Speaker 2: and then based on the area that she that they

1168
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:33,680
Speaker 2: said it was found, which was near the Afghan border.

1169
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:36,640
Speaker 2: They're like women of this age usually look like this. Yeah, yeah,

1170
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 2: so now they have a murder case on their handshut

1171
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:40,919
Speaker 2: you'r fuck? So when is she from?

1172
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 1: What's up? When is she? When is she from? She

1173
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:48,640
Speaker 1: had only died, uh, so they can't. They mummified the body.

1174
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:53,840
Speaker 2: Like when they discovered all this, they backdated it was

1175
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 2: like she'd only died four years ago or something.

1176
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 1: And so someone went and got there fucking their mate

1177
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:06,680
Speaker 1: from their back porch. Yep. Wait, let me see. I

1178
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:08,600
Speaker 1: don't know why that's such a weird part to me,

1179
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:10,000
Speaker 1: where it's like, well they got to put her on

1180
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:12,480
Speaker 1: a mat, yeah, why they didn't. Oh, she died in

1181
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six. Holy that's what they found out, but

1182
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:20,800
Speaker 1: I can't remember. I don't have it where that compares to.

1183
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 2: But basically what happened is in the mummification process, they

1184
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:27,760
Speaker 2: had to like they had.

1185
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:29,600
Speaker 1: To collect all their they had to make their plan.

1186
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 1: They had dissembled the team of stone masons and these

1187
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:35,240
Speaker 1: forgers and all these people that would be able to

1188
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 1: make this mummy look so realistic, because when you see it,

1189
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:41,400
Speaker 1: it's actually really beautiful and cool looking. There's like they

1190
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:44,720
Speaker 1: have this gold it's like a crown of cypress trees

1191
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 1: as her crown. Wow.

1192
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:49,720
Speaker 2: And then this face mask that they basically made, it's

1193
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:53,440
Speaker 2: based on a different mummy, very early mummies face mask,

1194
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 2: so it doesn't look like King tut Yeah, it's much

1195
01:03:56,680 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 2: more like handmade looking.

1196
01:03:58,600 --> 01:03:59,360
Speaker 1: It was really cool.

1197
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:04,680
Speaker 2: They basically just had these perfect forgers and then just

1198
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 2: made these little tiny state.

1199
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:08,120
Speaker 1: People were in on it. A lot of people were

1200
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 1: in on it.

1201
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:10,439
Speaker 2: And then they don't know if they robbed a grave

1202
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 2: to get like the freshest body, or if they killed somebody,

1203
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:16,600
Speaker 2: but the person who died died violently, which is why

1204
01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:18,280
Speaker 2: they think it was a it's.

1205
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:21,840
Speaker 1: A murder case. I'm in shock right now. Isn't it nuts?

1206
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:25,680
Speaker 1: U is the craziest story. Here's the other thing since this,

1207
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 1: since this time, two more quote unquote Persian mummies have

1208
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:34,240
Speaker 1: been offered on the black market for six million dollars each.

1209
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 1: When this one showed up first, and it would sell

1210
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 1: a mummy? What's up? You can sell a mummy on.

1211
01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 2: The black market, the black market, the antiquities market, the

1212
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 2: black market for antiquities. You can do anything you want

1213
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:49,760
Speaker 2: because it's just people robbing places and then selling these.

1214
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:53,440
Speaker 1: That's that's why there are tomb robbers and shit. Right,

1215
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:56,160
Speaker 1: But this mummy was estimated.

1216
01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 2: They they were getting prices up to a billion dollars

1217
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 2: because this mummy was so groundbreaking of like, oh my god,

1218
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 2: there's never been a Persian mummy before this.

1219
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:07,480
Speaker 1: And I wonder if they'd even buy it if they

1220
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:09,440
Speaker 1: knew it was a fake because it's just done so

1221
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 1: well well. But but it's done so well, but you've

1222
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 1: there's a murdered body inside of it.

1223
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1224
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:20,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, but people who buy a black market mummies give

1225
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 1: a ship.

1226
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:23,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they'd still want it to be a

1227
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 2: legit mummy because also then you're spending all that money.

1228
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:28,240
Speaker 2: They're spending that money for the history of it. They

1229
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 2: want that like this is from the stands of time

1230
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 2: or so much.

1231
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:33,960
Speaker 1: Would take a fucking fat discount to be like, no,

1232
01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:39,000
Speaker 1: this is just a really well done forge are dead person,

1233
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:42,560
Speaker 1: hey man? And then they're like, yeah, give me some

1234
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:45,320
Speaker 1: coke while you're while you're in this hair. Oh, because

1235
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:47,080
Speaker 1: they're just into bad stuff. Because there a black mark.

1236
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:50,400
Speaker 1: You think of black market buyers and sellers has like

1237
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:53,680
Speaker 1: scary spies, like they're not it's not.

1238
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:58,200
Speaker 2: They're not not historians, not in the least. You know

1239
01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:01,920
Speaker 2: what you you just provided me my transition. Now I

1240
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:03,320
Speaker 2: going to tell you this next story.

1241
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:06,160
Speaker 1: Did you hear about this one? The twenty year old

1242
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:12,000
Speaker 1: British model who she went to Milan because she believed

1243
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:15,800
Speaker 1: that she had gotten a modeling job and I bet

1244
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:18,200
Speaker 1: she and she did and it went great. Yeah, it

1245
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 1: went great. And now she is Carla Devignan. Ye I

1246
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:24,800
Speaker 1: don't know how to say her name. Uh No, she.

1247
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 2: She had an agent that sent her and the agent,

1248
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:33,080
Speaker 2: whose name is Phil Green, said that this was a

1249
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:35,800
Speaker 2: recognized studio in the city center of Milan, so he

1250
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 2: didn't think he was sending her to some fly by

1251
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:38,120
Speaker 2: night thing.

1252
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:42,280
Speaker 1: That's like You're like, someone's paying to send me to

1253
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:46,360
Speaker 1: Milan like this right to be legit. Yeah. When she

1254
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:49,440
Speaker 1: gets there, a man grabs her by the neck. One

1255
01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:51,160
Speaker 1: gra man grabs her by the neck.

1256
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:55,560
Speaker 2: Another one injects her with a dose of anesthetic of ketamine,

1257
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 2: so so much of it that an officer to the ground.

1258
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 1: And then she gets put into a suitcase. No no, no, no,

1259
01:07:02,680 --> 01:07:06,000
Speaker 1: no no no, not small places please, yes, the small

1260
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:11,480
Speaker 1: places yep. Oh. And then they drive her around unwinding,

1261
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:14,479
Speaker 1: unpaved roads for more than two hours, bound hand and foot,

1262
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:17,440
Speaker 1: with tape across her mouth. Oh my god.

1263
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 2: She's taken to a rural house in northern Italy and

1264
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 2: she's kept handcuffed to a wooden dresser. And then she

1265
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:30,320
Speaker 2: is put on sale online on the dark webs, the

1266
01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:31,840
Speaker 2: dark Web, the dark Web.

1267
01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:34,920
Speaker 1: She's put on sale.

1268
01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:37,840
Speaker 2: But then at the same time, a ransom demand gets

1269
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:40,200
Speaker 2: sent to her agent for three hundred cous.

1270
01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:42,680
Speaker 1: So he knows, he knows that this point sounds for

1271
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 1: how much? Three hundred thousand dollars. It's not a lot

1272
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 1: of money, uh right.

1273
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, you'd think if you're going to do

1274
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:52,960
Speaker 2: a crime like this, you might want to If he's like, okay,

1275
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:53,960
Speaker 2: shoot for the moon.

1276
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:54,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1277
01:07:56,760 --> 01:08:04,120
Speaker 2: So she when she's duck there, she tells him she

1278
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 2: has a child the person the man that's there, and

1279
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 2: so then he puts her back in the suitcase. I

1280
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:16,520
Speaker 2: don't know if Yeah, I think he does, and drives.

1281
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:22,479
Speaker 1: Her to the British embassy in Milan. Why is this funny?

1282
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:26,000
Speaker 1: He drops her off with the British empathy as a kid. Yeah,

1283
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 1: and he reported that killing mothers was against the rules

1284
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:36,000
Speaker 1: of the shadowy criminal organization that this guy belonged to.

1285
01:08:36,360 --> 01:08:40,920
Speaker 1: What they end up arresting him. He is, wait, so wait,

1286
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 1: they're going to sell her for sex or to be murdered,

1287
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:45,360
Speaker 1: Like this was someone they were selling to get killed.

1288
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:51,760
Speaker 1: I don't do they sell people just to be killed? Probably? Yeah,

1289
01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:53,280
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't either.

1290
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:56,599
Speaker 2: I'm sure for sex or to be a sex slave

1291
01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:57,760
Speaker 2: or to be trafficked.

1292
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 1: I have some terrible thing happening, you know. I Mean,

1293
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:02,559
Speaker 1: it's so sad because if we're hearing about this story,

1294
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:05,559
Speaker 1: there's a million others that didn't end up right.

1295
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 2: How many people that don't have agents, that don't have

1296
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:10,600
Speaker 2: anybody that are like, oh, somebody thinks I'm a model.

1297
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:13,760
Speaker 1: Or money to pay ransom. Yeah, oh my god.

1298
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:18,880
Speaker 2: So the guy's name is Lucas Powell Herba and he's

1299
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 2: from uh he's a Polish citizen with British residency and

1300
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:25,600
Speaker 2: he's the one that drops her off and then he

1301
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:26,960
Speaker 2: later gets arrested.

1302
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:28,639
Speaker 1: My god.

1303
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:34,759
Speaker 2: And they also were holding her passport so she couldn't

1304
01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:36,880
Speaker 2: leave the country until she gave evidence at her pre

1305
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 2: trial hearing. What because when she when she told the story,

1306
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:43,200
Speaker 2: they didn't believe her. Are you fucking They wouldn't let

1307
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:46,320
Speaker 2: her go home right because they were like, we have

1308
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:48,200
Speaker 2: to see what's going on. We don't understand what this

1309
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 2: is all about. And then it turned out that her

1310
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 2: her agent, the cops like everybody were and then the

1311
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:56,559
Speaker 2: guy that did it, we're all telling the exact same story.

1312
01:09:56,760 --> 01:09:58,479
Speaker 2: And they were like, okay, it really happens.

1313
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:04,120
Speaker 1: I apologized, Say you're sorry. What's important? Milan say you're sorry.

1314
01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:08,920
Speaker 1: Oh that's awful. Are you ready for the next one? Lately?

1315
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:13,120
Speaker 1: And Stephen tell me tell me when I go too long,

1316
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:17,280
Speaker 1: because I because it might be too long. Okay four

1317
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 1: hours later? This for real?

1318
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:24,560
Speaker 2: So this is my favorite because for like in the

1319
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:31,160
Speaker 2: early two thousands, there was a viral video that like

1320
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:36,240
Speaker 2: an apartment website put out that had a girl. It

1321
01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:39,840
Speaker 2: looked like night vision video and it was a girl

1322
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:43,200
Speaker 2: coming out of a cupboard in an apartment in New York.

1323
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:46,320
Speaker 2: And it was this story quote unquote, was that she

1324
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:48,479
Speaker 2: was living in the apartment and they didn't know.

1325
01:10:49,479 --> 01:10:51,640
Speaker 1: Well, that was all viral, that was all fake. Oh

1326
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:54,679
Speaker 1: it was yeah, And she crawled out in the scariest way.

1327
01:10:55,920 --> 01:10:58,640
Speaker 2: And I was living when we found that video and

1328
01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 2: didn't know you watched it at work fifty times. We

1329
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 2: would just stand around screaming and watching it was amazing.

1330
01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:10,040
Speaker 2: I mean, it was an amazing piece of literature fiction.

1331
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:16,800
Speaker 2: Well here's a story I found. This happened in Pittsburgh.

1332
01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:21,640
Speaker 2: Jerome Kennedy decided to stall install a camera inside his

1333
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:24,840
Speaker 2: attic after he was hearing noises coming from the ceiling

1334
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:25,719
Speaker 2: about his bedroom.

1335
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:29,080
Speaker 1: No according to that's according to police.

1336
01:11:30,120 --> 01:11:33,280
Speaker 2: He called them a few days earlier because he heard

1337
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:37,599
Speaker 2: someone up there at night, but they didn't find anything,

1338
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:40,800
Speaker 2: so he decided to put cameras in his attic.

1339
01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:43,040
Speaker 1: Would you do to see what was going on? I

1340
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:46,840
Speaker 1: would believe and everything. I certainly wouldn't take the time

1341
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:50,080
Speaker 1: to put cameras in, but he did it, and.

1342
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:57,280
Speaker 2: When he gets the footage back, the footage shows his neighbor,

1343
01:11:57,920 --> 01:12:03,639
Speaker 2: Robert Hartvilla Haverilla, crawling through the attic.

1344
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 1: So they live in like a split like a condo

1345
01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:12,200
Speaker 1: thing where they share a wall. And he has gone

1346
01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:15,120
Speaker 1: up into his attic and then crawled over into this

1347
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:20,559
Speaker 1: guy's side, and he's carrying in the video you can

1348
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:24,479
Speaker 1: see him. It's so fucking crazy. He's carrying a drill

1349
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:28,040
Speaker 1: and a light. And then he just lies on the

1350
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:32,640
Speaker 1: vent that overlooks Kennedy's bed and his daughter's crib for

1351
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:38,000
Speaker 1: about what does that say? For about thirty minutes, So

1352
01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:41,240
Speaker 1: he just looks through the vent for half an hour.

1353
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:46,840
Speaker 1: You're just being watched sleeping. Yeah, what if he just

1354
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:49,600
Speaker 1: was like, I don't relax, is me? A'm nice to

1355
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:52,280
Speaker 1: sweep baby, a little sweet baby. I like to see

1356
01:12:52,280 --> 01:12:55,400
Speaker 1: other people's lives. I'm not perverted. I'm not even when

1357
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:57,240
Speaker 1: they're awake. I just want to see how happy they

1358
01:12:57,280 --> 01:12:58,080
Speaker 1: look when they're sleeping.

1359
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:01,000
Speaker 2: The man who did it, Herney, who got caught on

1360
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:06,120
Speaker 2: the video, uh told the Washington Post that he has

1361
01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:09,200
Speaker 2: no criminal record whatsoever. And they're making this seem like

1362
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:11,840
Speaker 2: a negative situation, but it's really not. It's there are

1363
01:13:11,920 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 2: some things that haven't been said that'll clear everything up eventually.

1364
01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:21,280
Speaker 1: Okay, so what are something you're mentally Oh he was installing,

1365
01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:26,120
Speaker 1: Oh what a mobile for that baby, but he just

1366
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:29,080
Speaker 1: wanted to make sure. Can you imagine walking into your

1367
01:13:29,360 --> 01:13:32,120
Speaker 1: your daughter's bedroom in the morning and there's just a

1368
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:35,440
Speaker 1: mobile that's not that you didn't get there, a surprise

1369
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:42,360
Speaker 1: mobile with a scary mobile mobile. It's just all fucking skeletons,

1370
01:13:42,479 --> 01:13:48,040
Speaker 1: and it's just got nightmares. I mean, I just God,

1371
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:51,040
Speaker 1: bless this. That's my favorite. Like, that's my favorite. They

1372
01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:53,880
Speaker 1: go to jail. Do they still live next tome? I mean,

1373
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:55,960
Speaker 1: he don't do anything wrong, according to his lawyer. Why

1374
01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:57,599
Speaker 1: would he go to jail? He didn't. It's a super

1375
01:13:57,680 --> 01:14:01,840
Speaker 1: positive situation, not negative. It be crawling in the attic

1376
01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:07,280
Speaker 1: with a drill with a drill. Okay, here's the last one.

1377
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:12,320
Speaker 1: This is insane and awful. Then you probably heard about

1378
01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:14,080
Speaker 1: it because a bunch of people sent us this one

1379
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:16,120
Speaker 1: from the BBC News.

1380
01:14:16,240 --> 01:14:18,560
Speaker 2: Oh that's sorry. That was from the Washington Post. The

1381
01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:20,240
Speaker 2: story of the man in the attic was from the

1382
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:25,400
Speaker 2: Washington Post and the first the Mummies from BBC Horizon,

1383
01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:28,160
Speaker 2: the Horizon series, which my new favorite show. It is

1384
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:31,640
Speaker 2: there stuff on It was so cool. I want to

1385
01:14:31,640 --> 01:14:32,280
Speaker 2: watch all of them.

1386
01:14:32,680 --> 01:14:34,720
Speaker 1: It reminds me of stating, what was that book you

1387
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:38,599
Speaker 1: got us the Lifetime Oh yeah, Mysteries of the ann

1388
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:41,479
Speaker 1: explaining Yeah, yeah, it's from the like with the cover

1389
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:45,120
Speaker 1: like the Time Life Serious. That's sort of reminds me

1390
01:14:45,160 --> 01:14:47,559
Speaker 1: of Can I tell you my new favorite show really quickly?

1391
01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:49,400
Speaker 1: I meant to tell you about this earlier. It's called

1392
01:14:49,439 --> 01:14:53,160
Speaker 1: Suddenly Rich. It's like on TLC and it's just people

1393
01:14:53,160 --> 01:14:56,360
Speaker 1: who suddenly went like get a windfall, and it's like

1394
01:14:56,520 --> 01:14:59,400
Speaker 1: these and how they can't handle it, how happy it

1395
01:14:59,479 --> 01:15:01,360
Speaker 1: makes our life. It's just like if you are reading

1396
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:03,840
Speaker 1: about murder and you need a positive thing. Oh, it's

1397
01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:05,559
Speaker 1: like one guy who, like you had to throw at

1398
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:08,240
Speaker 1: a basketball game all these like shots and if you

1399
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:09,760
Speaker 1: did it, you won all this money. And he was

1400
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:13,000
Speaker 1: like a poor kid from like South America who had

1401
01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:14,639
Speaker 1: come on a scholarship and how to work his ass

1402
01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:16,360
Speaker 1: off and then like suddenly won this money. And this

1403
01:15:16,439 --> 01:15:18,840
Speaker 1: woman who found like a painting in the trash in

1404
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:20,960
Speaker 1: New York and it was worth a million, like it's

1405
01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:22,479
Speaker 1: just like super cool show.

1406
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:25,599
Speaker 2: It was the best dude funny, Like did you see

1407
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:29,160
Speaker 2: the documentary about the lady who found the Jackson Pollock painting? Yeah?

1408
01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:30,680
Speaker 1: No, I didn't see it, but it was similar to

1409
01:15:30,680 --> 01:15:32,559
Speaker 1: that where it's just like famous artists and it turned

1410
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:34,320
Speaker 1: out it was stolen and all this crazy shit. Yes,

1411
01:15:34,520 --> 01:15:36,360
Speaker 1: that's cool. So suddenly Rich was suddenly rich.

1412
01:15:36,400 --> 01:15:38,400
Speaker 2: When you need a fucking break, it's not about my

1413
01:15:38,479 --> 01:15:44,200
Speaker 2: uncle Rich, okay, okay, so this one is fucked up.

1414
01:15:44,560 --> 01:15:45,200
Speaker 1: This uh.

1415
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:50,519
Speaker 2: It happened in Denmark a respected freelance journalist named Kim

1416
01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:54,439
Speaker 2: Wall who was researching a feature about a man named

1417
01:15:54,479 --> 01:15:57,760
Speaker 2: Peter Matson who had built his own private forty ton

1418
01:15:57,960 --> 01:16:01,120
Speaker 2: submarine what called the you see three Nautilus.

1419
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:02,880
Speaker 1: Yes, oh, I did hear this one.

1420
01:16:04,600 --> 01:16:06,800
Speaker 2: He built that through crowdfunding in two thousand and eight,

1421
01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:10,400
Speaker 2: and she went down to meet him to take a tour.

1422
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:13,479
Speaker 2: It doesn't it's not supposed to like hold people, but

1423
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:14,880
Speaker 2: like you, they can show.

1424
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:17,120
Speaker 1: She was writing about it. According yes, this was like

1425
01:16:17,479 --> 01:16:19,040
Speaker 1: he was doing like she was doing like a human

1426
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:21,000
Speaker 1: interest piece. That's what's so troubling to me about this

1427
01:16:21,080 --> 01:16:23,719
Speaker 1: one is that, like I wouldn't be like, don't go alone.

1428
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:26,200
Speaker 1: It's like you're a journalisting. You're writing a piece about

1429
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:30,560
Speaker 1: this person, a person who runs two companies. Yeahe and

1430
01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:33,880
Speaker 1: is a very relatively public figure in his country. For

1431
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:36,360
Speaker 1: as much as we're like be careful, don't trust anyone,

1432
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:38,960
Speaker 1: it's like, but yeah, there's certain situations where you'd be like, well,

1433
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:42,320
Speaker 1: of course it's fine, it's her job. But okay, So

1434
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:45,320
Speaker 1: so she meets him.

1435
01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:48,800
Speaker 2: There, she's lasting alive August tenth as she departs with

1436
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:52,719
Speaker 2: mister Manson on his self made water vessel underwater vessel.

1437
01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:58,720
Speaker 2: She met him around seven o'clock on Thursday in the

1438
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:03,000
Speaker 2: harbor area of Copenagen and she got on the submarine.

1439
01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:05,680
Speaker 2: The last picture of the two of them were in

1440
01:17:06,160 --> 01:17:13,160
Speaker 2: the subs conning tower, taken by a man from a

1441
01:17:13,240 --> 01:17:16,040
Speaker 2: cruise ship. So they saw the little submarine out there

1442
01:17:16,479 --> 01:17:17,600
Speaker 2: or taking pictures of that.

1443
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:20,360
Speaker 1: I didn't know that there's a photo of them, of

1444
01:17:20,479 --> 01:17:23,120
Speaker 1: the two of them on the submarine. Yeah, yeah, and

1445
01:17:25,240 --> 01:17:28,760
Speaker 1: the suns it's like right before sunset, and they I mean,

1446
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:30,600
Speaker 1: this is all on the internet. You can see all

1447
01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:32,759
Speaker 1: these pictures. But then.

1448
01:17:34,320 --> 01:17:38,720
Speaker 2: Kim Wall's partner reported her missing the next morning. I

1449
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:40,280
Speaker 2: believe it was two thirty in the morning when she

1450
01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:41,639
Speaker 2: never came back from this trip.

1451
01:17:42,439 --> 01:17:43,360
Speaker 1: So uh.

1452
01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:51,519
Speaker 2: Initially, Peter Matson uh told everybody that he had dropped

1453
01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:58,880
Speaker 2: miss wall off after dark that night at the Halvandett

1454
01:17:59,080 --> 01:18:03,840
Speaker 2: restaurant on the northern tip of Reef Scharlon, very close

1455
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:04,960
Speaker 2: to where they originally met.

1456
01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:06,880
Speaker 1: Did you buy that it was good? Hey, guys, I

1457
01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:09,320
Speaker 1: dropped her off. There's people in Denmark laughing so hard.

1458
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:13,400
Speaker 1: I know, I dropped off for a restaurant. No big deal.

1459
01:18:13,840 --> 01:18:17,680
Speaker 2: The restaurant owner, Bob Peterson said that the area is

1460
01:18:17,800 --> 01:18:20,799
Speaker 2: very covered by CCTV and he handed the video footage

1461
01:18:20,840 --> 01:18:24,799
Speaker 2: to the police. Soon after that, Peter Matsen changed his story.

1462
01:18:25,840 --> 01:18:29,679
Speaker 2: Then he said that he uh there was an accident

1463
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:32,280
Speaker 2: on the submarine while they were on it and he

1464
01:18:32,439 --> 01:18:33,840
Speaker 2: had to bury her body at sea.

1465
01:18:34,840 --> 01:18:39,000
Speaker 1: What the that alone like? If that were true, this

1466
01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:40,280
Speaker 1: is just the is insane.

1467
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:42,880
Speaker 2: If that were true, the first story wouldn't have happened,

1468
01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:45,360
Speaker 2: because you would immediately pull out and be like, I'm

1469
01:18:45,439 --> 01:18:46,240
Speaker 2: so traumatized.

1470
01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:51,679
Speaker 1: This horrible thing happened ten days later. A headless torso

1471
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:54,320
Speaker 1: that had been weided down with metal is found in

1472
01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:57,760
Speaker 1: the waters off of Denmark and is adnified identified as Kim.

1473
01:19:00,640 --> 01:19:04,680
Speaker 1: They believe that mister Madison deliberately sank his forty ton

1474
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:09,040
Speaker 1: submarine hours after the search for her began. Oh my gosh.

1475
01:19:09,280 --> 01:19:12,200
Speaker 1: So here's the bad part.

1476
01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:19,000
Speaker 2: The torso, the arms, legs, and head were removed from

1477
01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:26,519
Speaker 2: the body as a result of deliberate cutting, and which

1478
01:19:26,600 --> 01:19:29,880
Speaker 2: means that he did that to her in his submarine,

1479
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:36,040
Speaker 2: which probably means he planned to do it, because how

1480
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:40,120
Speaker 2: what would you have that would cut a person on

1481
01:19:40,240 --> 01:19:42,400
Speaker 2: a submarine? Why would you have that handy? I mean,

1482
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:44,760
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know submarines. Maybe there's an answer,

1483
01:19:44,840 --> 01:19:47,559
Speaker 2: but like, did you bring a hack saw why onto

1484
01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:48,280
Speaker 2: your submarine?

1485
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:48,599
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1486
01:19:51,439 --> 01:19:55,080
Speaker 2: The lead investor investigator also revealed that the blood found

1487
01:19:55,120 --> 01:20:00,439
Speaker 2: on the sunken submarine was confirmed as Kim Wall's. Mister

1488
01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:03,360
Speaker 2: Matson's lawyer said he does not confess to anything and

1489
01:20:03,479 --> 01:20:06,640
Speaker 2: pleads not guilty as a negative thing. Yeah, it's the

1490
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:10,880
Speaker 2: DNA match. Doesn't change my client's explanation that an accident happened.

1491
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:17,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, And okay, so it happened right. This guy is.

1492
01:20:20,200 --> 01:20:22,600
Speaker 2: The skipper and designer of the UC three nautilists a

1493
01:20:22,680 --> 01:20:29,000
Speaker 2: privately owned submarine, and reports describe him as a hobby engineer.

1494
01:20:29,640 --> 01:20:31,760
Speaker 1: It's not clear what his background or training is.

1495
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:38,439
Speaker 2: While building his own crowdfunded submarine, which is insane.

1496
01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:40,720
Speaker 1: Like, you guys, there's charities that you can crowd you

1497
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:43,400
Speaker 1: can give money to give me money to make my

1498
01:20:43,600 --> 01:20:45,480
Speaker 1: own adult boy submarine.

1499
01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:52,439
Speaker 2: So he gets it built, then he has volunteers and

1500
01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:56,639
Speaker 2: people working on it with him. But then in two

1501
01:20:56,680 --> 01:20:58,840
Speaker 2: thousand and eight he moves on to what they call

1502
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:03,560
Speaker 2: him more lofty ambition space exploration. So he's like Denmark's

1503
01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:09,080
Speaker 2: Elon Musk essentially. So he's now running the Rocket Mattson

1504
01:21:09,240 --> 01:21:11,799
Speaker 2: Space Laboratory, which.

1505
01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:14,120
Speaker 1: Is also a fun what can we call it a

1506
01:21:14,200 --> 01:21:21,200
Speaker 1: laboratory laboratory filled with aluminium, and that's also funded by donations.

1507
01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:24,400
Speaker 1: The aim is to launch a rocket from a floating

1508
01:21:24,439 --> 01:21:27,599
Speaker 1: platform in the Baltic and send a person a douter

1509
01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:30,720
Speaker 1: space against so many hungry children. I mean, do we

1510
01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:35,439
Speaker 1: need to keep giving money to fucking I mean, it

1511
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:37,000
Speaker 1: doesn't It really doesn't seem like it.

1512
01:21:38,840 --> 01:21:43,120
Speaker 2: So it turned out that he was They were talking

1513
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:45,000
Speaker 2: about that he had a dispute with a group of

1514
01:21:45,040 --> 01:21:49,240
Speaker 2: volunteers that were maintaining the sub and he left them

1515
01:21:49,280 --> 01:21:54,080
Speaker 2: this message on a website. You may think that a

1516
01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:59,160
Speaker 2: curse is lying on the Nautilus that curses me. There

1517
01:21:59,240 --> 01:22:01,200
Speaker 2: will not be paw Nautilus.

1518
01:22:00,880 --> 01:22:04,800
Speaker 1: For as long as I exist. Wow, what a crae.

1519
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:08,960
Speaker 2: And seemingly he's talking about like these volunteers and some

1520
01:22:09,160 --> 01:22:11,120
Speaker 2: kind of fight that they all got in together or something.

1521
01:22:11,240 --> 01:22:17,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh yeah, that is so crazy, isn't that awful? Yeah?

1522
01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:24,080
Speaker 1: And creepy. And the weird thing is like if that

1523
01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:28,960
Speaker 1: were why take off her head and limbs like clearly

1524
01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:37,439
Speaker 1: or hiding something? Yes, shit, whew, we are back from

1525
01:22:37,479 --> 01:22:40,720
Speaker 1: some epic stories such a bad idea doing that many

1526
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:42,840
Speaker 1: so it's just so clear.

1527
01:22:42,920 --> 01:22:45,960
Speaker 2: I'm trying to cover my ass having not done my homework,

1528
01:22:46,040 --> 01:22:47,560
Speaker 2: where it just like I have a little bit of

1529
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:48,880
Speaker 2: this over here, I have a little bit of that

1530
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:51,040
Speaker 2: over there. We're going to mix them all together and

1531
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:53,040
Speaker 2: try to make this true crime podcast work.

1532
01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:55,040
Speaker 1: And so, how old were you when you got diagnosed

1533
01:22:55,080 --> 01:22:59,000
Speaker 1: with ADHD? I never, they won't, they won't help me.

1534
01:22:59,200 --> 01:23:01,240
Speaker 1: I've known you for a long I think I've known

1535
01:23:01,280 --> 01:23:03,200
Speaker 1: you long enough to be able to diagnose you if

1536
01:23:03,200 --> 01:23:03,639
Speaker 1: I want.

1537
01:23:03,560 --> 01:23:06,800
Speaker 2: To clearly, and hell yeah, it's been like this since

1538
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:07,719
Speaker 2: I was about eight.

1539
01:23:07,680 --> 01:23:09,760
Speaker 1: Years old, and they just said that you were a

1540
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:12,360
Speaker 1: bad kid, or you couldn't sit still, or you wouldn't

1541
01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:15,320
Speaker 1: pay attention. They didn't really talk about me much, you

1542
01:23:15,400 --> 01:23:17,920
Speaker 1: know what I mean. That's the problem. That's the problem.

1543
01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:19,640
Speaker 2: I was just kind of the second one that was

1544
01:23:19,720 --> 01:23:23,200
Speaker 2: also there and sometimes mouthed off, and then mostly it

1545
01:23:23,320 --> 01:23:24,400
Speaker 2: was like, go outside.

1546
01:23:24,560 --> 01:23:26,519
Speaker 1: I have every kind of men if you want to

1547
01:23:26,560 --> 01:23:29,840
Speaker 1: try them. We can just do like Monday, Monday, we

1548
01:23:29,920 --> 01:23:33,519
Speaker 1: can do buy this Tuesday. We can do adderall. Oh,

1549
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:36,439
Speaker 1: I've done. I've done my share of adderall. Or You're like,

1550
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:39,519
Speaker 1: why do I feel normal now? And I'm okay, it's.

1551
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:42,880
Speaker 2: Not literally just truly balancing myself out while other people

1552
01:23:42,920 --> 01:23:45,080
Speaker 2: are freaking. I freaked my friend out one time we

1553
01:23:45,160 --> 01:23:48,040
Speaker 2: were doing drugs and I was so calm and he

1554
01:23:48,200 --> 01:23:49,880
Speaker 2: was like, why are you like this?

1555
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:51,439
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I don't know. I feel great, feel

1556
01:23:51,479 --> 01:23:53,040
Speaker 1: normal for the first time in my life. I love

1557
01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:59,960
Speaker 1: this life. Here I listens, Okay, I have a great psychiatrist. Okay,

1558
01:24:00,320 --> 01:24:03,280
Speaker 1: so here's the updates for this slop. Listen.

1559
01:24:03,320 --> 01:24:08,439
Speaker 2: I have two jobs at this two five Okay, so

1560
01:24:08,560 --> 01:24:12,040
Speaker 2: the person Princess, there's no update for that case. No

1561
01:24:12,120 --> 01:24:14,280
Speaker 2: one has solved the murder of the woman who is

1562
01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:19,120
Speaker 2: Mammi fied unfortunately Chloe Ailing. In this case, the person

1563
01:24:19,160 --> 01:24:22,599
Speaker 2: who kidnapped Chloe with the help of his brother Michael,

1564
01:24:22,920 --> 01:24:26,760
Speaker 2: is Lucas Herba. I'm pronouncing that correctly, and he said.

1565
01:24:26,880 --> 01:24:29,760
Speaker 2: He claimed he had fallen in love with Ailing and

1566
01:24:29,840 --> 01:24:32,560
Speaker 2: that the two had allegedly staged the kidnapping together to

1567
01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:35,880
Speaker 2: ease her financial struggles following the birth of her son.

1568
01:24:35,960 --> 01:24:39,360
Speaker 2: A lot of quotes from him here. In June twenty eighteen,

1569
01:24:39,680 --> 01:24:42,799
Speaker 2: he was sentenced to sixteen years and eight months in prison.

1570
01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:46,240
Speaker 2: Of course, he made an appeal the sentence was reduced

1571
01:24:46,280 --> 01:24:49,160
Speaker 2: to five years eight months. He was released in twenty

1572
01:24:49,240 --> 01:24:52,880
Speaker 2: twenty two. Chloe continues to model, and she was on

1573
01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:56,240
Speaker 2: Celebrity Big Brother UK in twenty twenty two, and she

1574
01:24:56,320 --> 01:24:59,760
Speaker 2: also published a memoir called Kidnapped, The Untold Story of

1575
01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:03,000
Speaker 2: Mind Abduction. In twenty twenty four, the BBC aired a

1576
01:25:03,040 --> 01:25:06,519
Speaker 2: six part series called Kidnapped, The Chloe Aling Story The

1577
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:09,800
Speaker 2: creepiest story of all of the man crawling around other

1578
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:12,679
Speaker 2: people's air ducks so he can stare at a baby.

1579
01:25:14,439 --> 01:25:18,160
Speaker 2: That man, Robert Hevrilla, was found guilty of one count

1580
01:25:18,200 --> 01:25:21,479
Speaker 2: of criminal trespassing and he was sentenced to probation and

1581
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:22,400
Speaker 2: a fine.

1582
01:25:22,600 --> 01:25:25,479
Speaker 1: Straight to jail. As they say, I mean, there's a lot.

1583
01:25:25,360 --> 01:25:28,160
Speaker 2: Of things to be taken into consideration on that one,

1584
01:25:28,280 --> 01:25:30,840
Speaker 2: where it's like it was your obsession to go look

1585
01:25:30,840 --> 01:25:31,360
Speaker 2: at a baby.

1586
01:25:31,560 --> 01:25:34,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, every time you say that, like cringe.

1587
01:25:34,320 --> 01:25:36,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, then side we can move on to the

1588
01:25:36,360 --> 01:25:38,560
Speaker 2: Kim Wall story. But I just want everyone listening to

1589
01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:41,640
Speaker 2: know this that I did not do justice to the

1590
01:25:41,720 --> 01:25:45,360
Speaker 2: Kim Wall story in this and I did cover it

1591
01:25:45,560 --> 01:25:49,080
Speaker 2: again in more detail and fully in episode one twenty six.

1592
01:25:49,240 --> 01:25:53,400
Speaker 2: So we're gonna rewind that at some point where rewinding

1593
01:25:53,439 --> 01:25:54,439
Speaker 2: a story we already did.

1594
01:25:54,600 --> 01:25:55,000
Speaker 1: I love that.

1595
01:25:55,200 --> 01:25:56,760
Speaker 2: Every once in a while there'll be a story where

1596
01:25:56,800 --> 01:25:58,200
Speaker 2: we're like, this sounds familiar.

1597
01:25:58,200 --> 01:26:00,320
Speaker 1: I think we covered this, and it's like you did,

1598
01:26:00,400 --> 01:26:01,840
Speaker 1: but you did it really right.

1599
01:26:02,720 --> 01:26:06,799
Speaker 2: So this was this time essentially. In January twenty eighteen,

1600
01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:09,880
Speaker 2: Madsen was charged with murder in decent handling of a

1601
01:26:09,960 --> 01:26:14,040
Speaker 2: corpse sexual assault. He was sentenced to life imprisonment in

1602
01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:17,120
Speaker 2: April of the same year. In October of twenty twenty,

1603
01:26:17,280 --> 01:26:20,120
Speaker 2: he attempted to escape from prison after threatening an employee.

1604
01:26:20,400 --> 01:26:21,679
Speaker 1: He was caught, he was brought back.

1605
01:26:22,360 --> 01:26:24,760
Speaker 2: The following year, he was sentenced to twenty one months

1606
01:26:24,800 --> 01:26:27,840
Speaker 2: in prison for the attempted escape, and then in twenty

1607
01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:30,160
Speaker 2: twenty there was a six part TV series called The

1608
01:26:30,240 --> 01:26:34,680
Speaker 2: Investigation and that detailed the indictment and the investigation into him.

1609
01:26:35,240 --> 01:26:37,600
Speaker 2: And then in March of twenty twenty two, there was

1610
01:26:37,640 --> 01:26:40,920
Speaker 2: a two part documentary called Undercurrent the Disappearance of Kim Wall,

1611
01:26:41,600 --> 01:26:44,639
Speaker 2: And in September of the same year, Netflix had their

1612
01:26:44,680 --> 01:26:48,040
Speaker 2: own documentary called Into the Deep the Submarine Murder Case.

1613
01:26:48,360 --> 01:26:51,160
Speaker 2: And I think that's when it really blew up that

1614
01:26:51,479 --> 01:26:55,320
Speaker 2: of course that Netflix documentary, So there's that I really

1615
01:26:55,439 --> 01:26:57,800
Speaker 2: tried to, like, I think I tried to do all

1616
01:26:57,920 --> 01:27:00,120
Speaker 2: Kim Wall for that, and I realized I didn't have

1617
01:27:00,280 --> 01:27:02,880
Speaker 2: enough information. Yeah, and so then I tagged on a

1618
01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:05,280
Speaker 2: bunch of ones that I had already started. That's okay,

1619
01:27:05,880 --> 01:27:08,360
Speaker 2: I apologize to you, and I apologize to all of

1620
01:27:08,600 --> 01:27:11,840
Speaker 2: the world. I guess for being for always being a

1621
01:27:12,040 --> 01:27:16,160
Speaker 2: half asser of homework on a podcast where it's all

1622
01:27:16,280 --> 01:27:17,760
Speaker 2: homework all the time.

1623
01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:20,320
Speaker 1: Turned out okay, God damn it all right, let's head

1624
01:27:20,360 --> 01:27:25,320
Speaker 1: back in and we'll wrap up the show. Oh I

1625
01:27:25,360 --> 01:27:27,920
Speaker 1: didn't think of a positive thing this week. Oh yeah,

1626
01:27:27,960 --> 01:27:29,439
Speaker 1: you have to think of one. Okay, you know what.

1627
01:27:29,560 --> 01:27:33,639
Speaker 1: I'm really excited for our tour. No, it's not fair back, Okay,

1628
01:27:33,800 --> 01:27:35,559
Speaker 1: that's not a thing that happened to you. You're right,

1629
01:27:35,880 --> 01:27:36,599
Speaker 1: that's the future.

1630
01:27:36,920 --> 01:27:39,400
Speaker 2: Well, I was gonna say, I went bowling at this

1631
01:27:39,720 --> 01:27:42,760
Speaker 2: tiny bowling alley in Montrose and it did.

1632
01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:45,400
Speaker 1: I show you that picture. It's the cutest.

1633
01:27:45,920 --> 01:27:49,000
Speaker 2: It's like almost a third of the size of a

1634
01:27:49,080 --> 01:27:51,840
Speaker 2: normal bowling alley and it's totally from like the early

1635
01:27:51,960 --> 01:27:53,280
Speaker 2: sixties maybe late fifties.

1636
01:27:53,280 --> 01:27:57,000
Speaker 1: Oh my god. And it's not all modernized. No, no,

1637
01:27:57,479 --> 01:28:00,839
Speaker 1: not at all. And it's like it was day Anthony's birthday.

1638
01:28:00,960 --> 01:28:05,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and uh, it was super fun. But they like

1639
01:28:05,160 --> 01:28:07,040
Speaker 2: you can rent it out for private parties.

1640
01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:09,120
Speaker 1: Oh my god. And where's Montrose.

1641
01:28:09,439 --> 01:28:11,280
Speaker 2: It's the one that's kind of up and so once

1642
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:13,000
Speaker 2: again up in the hills. It's kind of by Alta

1643
01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:15,799
Speaker 2: Dina like obviously if you just drive right above Glendee.

1644
01:28:16,320 --> 01:28:19,679
Speaker 1: Oh okay, And it was just perfect.

1645
01:28:19,800 --> 01:28:22,920
Speaker 2: It was like my favorite party because there was chatting

1646
01:28:23,080 --> 01:28:24,160
Speaker 2: and lots of people that I love.

1647
01:28:24,240 --> 01:28:26,040
Speaker 1: And it wasn't like crazy loud music, so you can't

1648
01:28:26,040 --> 01:28:27,400
Speaker 1: talk to anyone like at a bar. No.

1649
01:28:27,640 --> 01:28:29,679
Speaker 2: And also people would bowl, but then they would stop

1650
01:28:29,720 --> 01:28:31,960
Speaker 2: bowling because you know, you only want to do that

1651
01:28:32,000 --> 01:28:32,920
Speaker 2: for a certain amount of time.

1652
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:35,560
Speaker 1: Alley parties. Yeah, that's a great idea. I think I

1653
01:28:35,600 --> 01:28:38,040
Speaker 1: might have a party there. I'm going Can I come?

1654
01:28:38,760 --> 01:28:41,840
Speaker 1: You're like, actually, no, you're not invided myself to even

1655
01:28:42,040 --> 01:28:43,880
Speaker 1: told me not to invite you. Now I just invited

1656
01:28:43,920 --> 01:28:48,639
Speaker 1: myself there party. You're automatically invited to the party. Yeah. Yeah,

1657
01:28:49,200 --> 01:28:52,439
Speaker 1: I'm mounomatically coming. So it's a positive. Okay, good. My

1658
01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:54,480
Speaker 1: dad came over today and helped me with my finances.

1659
01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:57,880
Speaker 1: Oh how was that? It was good? He didn't yell.

1660
01:28:57,960 --> 01:28:59,639
Speaker 1: There was a moment where I could hear the tension

1661
01:28:59,680 --> 01:29:01,240
Speaker 1: in his way. I just don't think he knew what

1662
01:29:01,280 --> 01:29:03,360
Speaker 1: he was doing, right. I think in the long run,

1663
01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:05,360
Speaker 1: all it was was someone was sitting there with me

1664
01:29:05,600 --> 01:29:07,479
Speaker 1: saying you have to do this now. And there were

1665
01:29:07,560 --> 01:29:10,000
Speaker 1: fourteen times where if I had been on my own,

1666
01:29:11,360 --> 01:29:14,400
Speaker 1: you would there were fourteen times like I'm just gonna

1667
01:29:14,400 --> 01:29:15,479
Speaker 1: do this later. I'm just not going to do this,

1668
01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:17,840
Speaker 1: and he was like, well, let's just do this and

1669
01:29:18,080 --> 01:29:20,320
Speaker 1: then we can do that, and I like ended up

1670
01:29:21,120 --> 01:29:24,000
Speaker 1: doing it. That's great and it worked, that's great. Yeah,

1671
01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:26,120
Speaker 1: and it just made me made me happy that it

1672
01:29:26,240 --> 01:29:28,439
Speaker 1: was a huge weight lifted off your shoulders, a huge weight,

1673
01:29:28,520 --> 01:29:31,439
Speaker 1: but also like kind of gave me that, like, oh, dad,

1674
01:29:32,160 --> 01:29:34,320
Speaker 1: that's what dads are before. That's right. He didn't know

1675
01:29:34,320 --> 01:29:36,280
Speaker 1: what he was doing. He was like, that was going

1676
01:29:36,320 --> 01:29:39,080
Speaker 1: to be a CPA and it's something and a money

1677
01:29:39,160 --> 01:29:41,760
Speaker 1: lawyer with our tax lawyer. And I dropped out and like,

1678
01:29:41,840 --> 01:29:43,240
Speaker 1: what the fuck are you doing here? I thought you

1679
01:29:43,320 --> 01:29:44,760
Speaker 1: know what you were. He's like, I'm not really good

1680
01:29:44,800 --> 01:29:47,679
Speaker 1: with numbers. I thought you were. Did he really say? Yes?

1681
01:29:48,040 --> 01:29:49,880
Speaker 1: That's so funny. But he ended up just sitting there

1682
01:29:49,920 --> 01:29:51,479
Speaker 1: while I did a bunch of things, and like I

1683
01:29:51,560 --> 01:29:53,519
Speaker 1: had someone to I was like, well this number is

1684
01:29:53,560 --> 01:29:55,439
Speaker 1: this and he was like you just sat there and

1685
01:29:55,479 --> 01:29:57,800
Speaker 1: it was great. That's so good. So it was really nice.

1686
01:29:57,960 --> 01:30:00,800
Speaker 2: And yeah, my dad was there very patient when I

1687
01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:04,880
Speaker 2: went through my extreme financial crisis because I never said

1688
01:30:04,880 --> 01:30:07,120
Speaker 2: a word to him about it because he is so

1689
01:30:07,320 --> 01:30:10,920
Speaker 2: paranoid about money and he's so he's been on it

1690
01:30:11,080 --> 01:30:13,240
Speaker 2: like he used to lecture me about you have to

1691
01:30:13,280 --> 01:30:15,640
Speaker 2: make sure you get your taxes done. From when I

1692
01:30:15,760 --> 01:30:18,360
Speaker 2: was like in junior high. It was just like a

1693
01:30:18,560 --> 01:30:21,120
Speaker 2: reminder would be like, I never, you don't want the

1694
01:30:21,160 --> 01:30:21,800
Speaker 2: government after you.

1695
01:30:21,920 --> 01:30:23,599
Speaker 1: He'd always say shit like that, that's such a dabt.

1696
01:30:23,680 --> 01:30:25,560
Speaker 1: My dad did that too. My dad gave me it,

1697
01:30:25,600 --> 01:30:28,360
Speaker 1: got me my first bank account. It's what they do. Yeah,

1698
01:30:28,560 --> 01:30:31,519
Speaker 1: it's what they're into. He's like braces and a bank account.

1699
01:30:31,680 --> 01:30:34,000
Speaker 1: That's what I can provide you, not a ton of affection,

1700
01:30:36,200 --> 01:30:39,280
Speaker 1: not good life advice because my life isn't isn't shambles.

1701
01:30:40,160 --> 01:30:42,519
Speaker 1: Well that's good. That makes me. I get a lot

1702
01:30:42,520 --> 01:30:44,240
Speaker 1: of beleef from that. You do too, because it's also

1703
01:30:44,320 --> 01:30:47,519
Speaker 1: your finances because that's my favorite murder finances that I

1704
01:30:47,640 --> 01:30:51,600
Speaker 1: screwed up royally you get you have a bonus and

1705
01:30:51,680 --> 01:30:53,639
Speaker 1: that we're not going to get arrested.

1706
01:30:54,120 --> 01:30:57,960
Speaker 2: Yes, that's very true. But also you here's your bonus

1707
01:30:58,200 --> 01:31:01,240
Speaker 2: in me. I could never or judge you. If you

1708
01:31:01,360 --> 01:31:04,080
Speaker 2: were like, hey, sorry, I lost everything.

1709
01:31:04,120 --> 01:31:06,639
Speaker 1: I know, I'd be like, oh, well, because I actually

1710
01:31:06,840 --> 01:31:09,240
Speaker 1: said that thing, I can say I said that today

1711
01:31:09,280 --> 01:31:11,320
Speaker 1: where he was like, you got it. You should make

1712
01:31:11,320 --> 01:31:12,920
Speaker 1: sure because if someone of those my favorite murders up,

1713
01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:15,320
Speaker 1: He's like, you should make sure Karen can see all

1714
01:31:15,400 --> 01:31:18,280
Speaker 1: this so she knows, like you're playing her well. And

1715
01:31:18,360 --> 01:31:21,720
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, no, she does. She knows, and she

1716
01:31:21,840 --> 01:31:25,639
Speaker 1: knows how fucked I've made it, and she's cool with it. Yep.

1717
01:31:26,080 --> 01:31:28,960
Speaker 1: So because those huge weight off my shoulders that you

1718
01:31:29,080 --> 01:31:29,840
Speaker 1: are okay with it.

1719
01:31:30,000 --> 01:31:32,360
Speaker 2: Of course, here's the thing at the end of the day,

1720
01:31:32,439 --> 01:31:35,680
Speaker 2: and I'm not this sounds funny, It's only money. Now

1721
01:31:35,760 --> 01:31:37,720
Speaker 2: when I don't have money, I don't really feel that.

1722
01:31:38,040 --> 01:31:39,559
Speaker 1: No no one does. No one does.

1723
01:31:39,720 --> 01:31:45,120
Speaker 2: But truly, people do such terrible fucking things to themselves

1724
01:31:45,160 --> 01:31:46,760
Speaker 2: and to each other because of money.

1725
01:31:47,360 --> 01:31:51,240
Speaker 1: I've seen it happen. It's very bad. And when people

1726
01:31:51,320 --> 01:31:53,920
Speaker 1: are focused on that because at the end of the day,

1727
01:31:53,960 --> 01:31:55,040
Speaker 1: think of it. You get a check.

1728
01:31:55,680 --> 01:31:57,920
Speaker 2: Obviously a lot of us are in you get into

1729
01:31:57,960 --> 01:31:59,960
Speaker 2: a bad place where you're like, yes, five thousand dollars,

1730
01:32:00,200 --> 01:32:01,000
Speaker 2: solve this, this and this.

1731
01:32:01,439 --> 01:32:03,639
Speaker 1: That's true. But if you were, if you were above

1732
01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:05,360
Speaker 1: level and then you had a five thousand dollars check.

1733
01:32:05,439 --> 01:32:07,479
Speaker 1: This is what happened to me when I worked, when

1734
01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:10,240
Speaker 1: I had my first big job, all I did was work,

1735
01:32:11,200 --> 01:32:14,519
Speaker 1: and so I had absolutely no life, and I just

1736
01:32:14,680 --> 01:32:19,040
Speaker 1: collected money and bought Kashmir sweaters from J Crew because

1737
01:32:19,080 --> 01:32:20,720
Speaker 1: that's all I did, because you thought you had to

1738
01:32:20,720 --> 01:32:22,120
Speaker 1: spend it because you were working so hard.

1739
01:32:22,560 --> 01:32:24,560
Speaker 2: It was the only thing I could figure out to

1740
01:32:24,720 --> 01:32:26,920
Speaker 2: do to like, oh, maybe this will make me happy.

1741
01:32:27,040 --> 01:32:29,600
Speaker 2: So I had cashmere sweaters in every color, and I

1742
01:32:29,800 --> 01:32:32,280
Speaker 2: was more miserable than I've ever been in my life.

1743
01:32:32,600 --> 01:32:34,680
Speaker 2: And that's when I learned that lesson of like I

1744
01:32:34,840 --> 01:32:37,360
Speaker 2: wasn't doing stand up, I wasn't performing. I was just

1745
01:32:37,960 --> 01:32:40,640
Speaker 2: a behind the scenes, behind the camera person that was

1746
01:32:40,760 --> 01:32:43,439
Speaker 2: giving all of my creativity to send and it was

1747
01:32:43,600 --> 01:32:44,400
Speaker 2: fucking killing me.

1748
01:32:44,680 --> 01:32:47,600
Speaker 1: So it didn't matter how many fucking cashmere sweaters I

1749
01:32:47,680 --> 01:32:49,800
Speaker 1: have showed up in at work, because you showed up

1750
01:32:49,800 --> 01:32:51,920
Speaker 1: at a miserable job. Yeah. You know. My thing too

1751
01:32:52,040 --> 01:32:55,599
Speaker 1: is that, like I've been poor before, I've like pretty

1752
01:32:55,680 --> 01:32:59,719
Speaker 1: much up until I was thirty two, been pretty paycheck,

1753
01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:02,519
Speaker 1: been paycheck to paycheck from childhood on. Yeah, and it's

1754
01:33:02,600 --> 01:33:06,200
Speaker 1: not the fucking You still can have happiness and sort

1755
01:33:06,240 --> 01:33:09,080
Speaker 1: of and survive. One you're not not happy because you

1756
01:33:09,120 --> 01:33:11,360
Speaker 1: don't have money. It sucks and there is a part

1757
01:33:11,400 --> 01:33:13,160
Speaker 1: of you that's unhappy because of it, but you still

1758
01:33:13,160 --> 01:33:16,559
Speaker 1: get to have positive life experiences. So I mean, money's

1759
01:33:16,560 --> 01:33:18,200
Speaker 1: not going to take that away from us, That's right.

1760
01:33:18,680 --> 01:33:20,360
Speaker 2: Well, and also sometimes when you have to get a

1761
01:33:20,400 --> 01:33:22,760
Speaker 2: little creative, you can have better and more rich life

1762
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:25,920
Speaker 2: experiences because you're actually kind of in the mix, whereas

1763
01:33:26,320 --> 01:33:29,519
Speaker 2: I think sometimes when you have money and security, you

1764
01:33:29,760 --> 01:33:32,519
Speaker 2: you become very isolated, and you also start living lives

1765
01:33:32,560 --> 01:33:33,720
Speaker 2: that other people can't relate to.

1766
01:33:33,920 --> 01:33:37,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're just you're just kind of like, you know,

1767
01:33:37,680 --> 01:33:41,360
Speaker 1: we're fucking tenacious or what was the other one, resilient? Resilient.

1768
01:33:42,040 --> 01:33:44,880
Speaker 1: This is why I'll always support all the murderinos who

1769
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:47,519
Speaker 1: make shit on Etsy and sell it like my favor Mercia, Yeah,

1770
01:33:48,040 --> 01:33:50,240
Speaker 1: because well, yeah, I wish I had had that when

1771
01:33:50,320 --> 01:33:52,840
Speaker 1: I was fucking broke. Yeah, make that fucking money. You

1772
01:33:52,880 --> 01:33:57,400
Speaker 1: guys create your awesome art projects and the're cool shit calligraphy,

1773
01:33:57,560 --> 01:34:01,880
Speaker 1: yeah right, some shit amazing. Just don't don't there's one

1774
01:34:01,920 --> 01:34:05,240
Speaker 1: person who's selling our logo on something. Oh no, you

1775
01:34:05,320 --> 01:34:05,840
Speaker 1: have to make it.

1776
01:34:05,960 --> 01:34:06,479
Speaker 2: You just make it.

1777
01:34:06,720 --> 01:34:08,040
Speaker 1: You have to make it, you have to earn it,

1778
01:34:08,160 --> 01:34:10,360
Speaker 1: and don't be afraid to give us credit since it

1779
01:34:10,560 --> 01:34:13,439
Speaker 1: is our show. Just just plug our shows all we ask,

1780
01:34:13,560 --> 01:34:16,960
Speaker 1: yeah we are, which they do. Pretend you fucking made

1781
01:34:17,000 --> 01:34:21,200
Speaker 1: it up. Give us credit, take your take your money,

1782
01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:29,320
Speaker 1: take your dirty blood money. Literally, Okay, we're back. I

1783
01:34:29,400 --> 01:34:32,320
Speaker 1: want to say I don't say anymore I was poor,

1784
01:34:32,760 --> 01:34:36,240
Speaker 1: because I say I was broke. That's my go now.

1785
01:34:36,320 --> 01:34:38,639
Speaker 1: And I just want to say, like, make that known.

1786
01:34:38,720 --> 01:34:42,439
Speaker 1: I think being white and having that privilege and knowing

1787
01:34:42,520 --> 01:34:47,120
Speaker 1: that makes it so I had privilege and poor isn't

1788
01:34:47,160 --> 01:34:49,320
Speaker 1: the word I want to use. You know, we didn't

1789
01:34:49,360 --> 01:34:51,759
Speaker 1: grow up with money at all. You know, we struggled,

1790
01:34:52,320 --> 01:34:54,639
Speaker 1: but well in the context, that's what happens.

1791
01:34:54,760 --> 01:34:57,559
Speaker 2: Anytime you pull the context out and you include everybody

1792
01:34:57,600 --> 01:35:00,960
Speaker 2: in it, right you immediately if you want stand like

1793
01:35:01,120 --> 01:35:03,920
Speaker 2: the white privilege puts you in a different place, that's all.

1794
01:35:03,960 --> 01:35:05,160
Speaker 2: And that's great to say.

1795
01:35:05,360 --> 01:35:06,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean then so many little things that my

1796
01:35:07,040 --> 01:35:09,920
Speaker 1: parents even cared that I had a good education, Like

1797
01:35:10,000 --> 01:35:12,160
Speaker 1: I know, those things made it so that I wasn't

1798
01:35:13,080 --> 01:35:17,000
Speaker 1: systemically poor. Yeah, I we were broke, right, you know

1799
01:35:17,040 --> 01:35:18,160
Speaker 1: what I mean? Yes, totally.

1800
01:35:18,680 --> 01:35:20,680
Speaker 2: Also, I just want to say that you say you

1801
01:35:20,760 --> 01:35:23,720
Speaker 2: don't have one a positive thing that week and then

1802
01:35:23,880 --> 01:35:25,680
Speaker 2: I'm like, you have to do it, and then you

1803
01:35:25,800 --> 01:35:29,920
Speaker 2: give one and I'm like not good enough. So you know,

1804
01:35:30,000 --> 01:35:31,880
Speaker 2: I would like to I would like to acknowledge my

1805
01:35:32,040 --> 01:35:34,360
Speaker 2: privilege in being able to think of things easily.

1806
01:35:35,160 --> 01:35:37,519
Speaker 1: And then when you say I don't know if I can,

1807
01:35:37,640 --> 01:35:41,320
Speaker 1: I'm like, do it? Do it again? That made me

1808
01:35:41,400 --> 01:35:43,040
Speaker 1: last Well, yeah, I don't think it's the worst thing

1809
01:35:43,120 --> 01:35:45,600
Speaker 1: to like force someone to think of positive things in

1810
01:35:45,640 --> 01:35:47,439
Speaker 1: their life. Let's put it that way. Yeah, you have them.

1811
01:35:47,720 --> 01:35:50,080
Speaker 2: It's a good like a reset, just like in the

1812
01:35:50,120 --> 01:35:53,760
Speaker 2: way you're saying, like, if you can re set the

1813
01:35:54,120 --> 01:35:56,160
Speaker 2: lens through which you look at your childhood or the

1814
01:35:56,240 --> 01:35:58,719
Speaker 2: lens through which you look at your experience, it's easier

1815
01:35:58,760 --> 01:36:00,360
Speaker 2: to kind of stay up.

1816
01:36:00,360 --> 01:36:03,360
Speaker 1: Or get up. Yeah for sure. Yeah, look at that.

1817
01:36:03,439 --> 01:36:05,920
Speaker 1: Look at us. My medication's working. Hey, give me some

1818
01:36:06,160 --> 01:36:09,720
Speaker 1: give me that psychiatric's number. Everyone. Her name is Cheryl. No,

1819
01:36:09,800 --> 01:36:10,519
Speaker 1: I'm not going to give it to you.

1820
01:36:10,800 --> 01:36:13,280
Speaker 2: All right, Okay, we're going into what we would name

1821
01:36:13,560 --> 01:36:16,599
Speaker 2: this episode now it was originally named Harvard Too.

1822
01:36:16,800 --> 01:36:19,400
Speaker 1: Can't beat it? Sorry? What else is there? There's a

1823
01:36:19,479 --> 01:36:23,400
Speaker 1: hands down situation. Hey, I guess all the halls when

1824
01:36:23,439 --> 01:36:26,040
Speaker 1: we talk about Rebecca Hall, Michael C. Hall, all the

1825
01:36:26,120 --> 01:36:27,040
Speaker 1: Halls we could call it.

1826
01:36:27,120 --> 01:36:29,560
Speaker 2: Also, of course we're talking about Janet Little Shop of

1827
01:36:29,640 --> 01:36:30,759
Speaker 2: Horticulture is cute.

1828
01:36:32,040 --> 01:36:39,719
Speaker 1: I still love that. My son, New Jersey, Virginia, New Jersey.

1829
01:36:40,960 --> 01:36:44,360
Speaker 1: All right, well, thanks for listening here. In twenty twenty six,

1830
01:36:44,680 --> 01:36:47,200
Speaker 1: let's hear ourselves say goodbye in twenty seventeen. I wonder

1831
01:36:47,240 --> 01:36:52,360
Speaker 1: if I do it in four parts you guys, thanks

1832
01:36:52,400 --> 01:36:57,960
Speaker 1: for listening. Well, love me, stay sexy, don't get murdered. Bye. Yeah,

1833
01:36:58,120 --> 01:37:01,519
Speaker 1: Elvis want a cookie? Yeah yeah, Me me, I want

1834
01:37:01,560 --> 01:37:06,880
Speaker 1: to cook you we me No, that was elpst me Yeah,

1835
01:37:06,880 --> 01:37:07,599
Speaker 1: He's like yes,