WEBVTT - Billionaires, PEDs, and a $1M World Record with Michael Easter 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:12.080 Welcome to two percent. I'm your host, Michael Easter. Here's 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:15.320 an insane idea. What if we took a bunch of athletes, 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:19.079 rejuiced them to the gills with performance enhancing drugs, and 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:22.320 then we had them all compete. Now, this might sound 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:25.040 like something someone comes up with in their dorm room 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:29.240 while stoned, but it actually just happened at the Enhanced Games, 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:32.159 which were held in Las Vegas in May. So today 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:35.080 we have Chris Guyemali and Sam Egan. They were on 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:38.720 the ground before, during, and after the Enhanced Games. They 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:42.360 were talking to founders, athletes, and scientists. They were there 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:46.360 reporting their podcast Superhuman, and they're here today to talk 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:48.640 to us about the aftermath of the Games and the 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:53.520 rise of websites selling us TRT peptides and other products 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:56.920 that promise us better versions of ourselves with no effort, 0:00:57.520 --> 0:00:59.600 just the swipe of a credit card. We'll take a 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:08.240 break and then we're going to bring them on. All right, 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:10.279 Chris and Sam, thanks for coming on two percent. 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:11.800 Oh, thank you for having us. 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:12.920 Really appreciate it. 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:15.520 So, you guys are about to release the final two 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:19.000 episodes of your show on the Enhanced Games that might 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:20.640 be out by the time this episode is out. But 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:22.880 for people who have no clue what the hell the 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:25.440 Enhanced Games are, explain it to us. 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:29.280 Yeah, so the Enhanced Games were originally billed as the 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:32.840 sort of steroid Olympics, which you know is kind of 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:35.880 the kind of idea that like Stone College students tend 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:37.800 to have or like, we're didn't it be sick if 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:40.280 we like had all these like peds and people could 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:41.039 do whatever they want. 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:43.240 But they actually made it happen. 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:47.119 It was founded by this guy named Aaron Desuza, who 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:50.760 is an associated Peter Thiels, who is most famous for 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:55.280 helping bring down the Gawker website from many many years ago. 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:59.960 And yeah, we've just been embedded in this strange world 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.560 where they convinced a bunch of former Olympians to take 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:06.800 some peds and try to try to break some world records. 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:09.040 That's basically what this thing is. 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:11.560 It's actually gonna say some people who aren't who aren't 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:14.840 even Olympians, like they got they I think obviously because 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:17.360 this was so controversial, they kind of had to widen 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:20.760 their their search and they got some people who had 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.080 never competed in the Olympics, but you know, not to 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:24.919 get ahead of myself, but actually ended up like beating 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:25.760 former Olympians. 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:30.160 Yeah, so with the word controversy. So when I first 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:32.320 heard word of this, and I don't know what it was, 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:36.600 probably a few months ago. You hear steroid Olympics, you 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.800 hear like Saudi money, you hear we're do some people 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:41.960 the gills, And my initial thing was like, this just 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:45.360 sounds like a giant grift, Like this sounds insane. 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:46.160 What is this? 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.240 What did you find in terms of that? So what 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:54.680 was your mindset entering doing this podcast? And like where 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:55.200 is it gone? 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:57.400 Sense? Then? And I'm not wrong? 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:00.600 Am I wrong that this has kind of insane? 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:03.840 No? When I went in, I kind of didn't know 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:07.720 what to expect. It just sounded so circusy and like 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:11.320 a big old sort of carnival sort of thing that 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:14.240 I was like, dude, this could end up being a firefest, 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:18.480 this could end up being something stranger altogether. But as 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:20.840 we've been sort of embedded in this thing this whole time, 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:24.840 I kind of realized it's basically just you know, the 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:29.040 website hymns with a WWE component attached to it as 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:30.120 the marketing apparatus. 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:32.680 Basically, Yeah, and so people who don't know people who 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:40.200 don't know hims, hymns cells basically supplements, pep DDes, TRT. 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:43.800 Yeah, yeah, I mean I would say for me, I 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:45.640 came on a little bit earlier to the project than Chris. 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:47.920 I went to their initial event where they announced that 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:51.080 this was actually going to happen at Resorts World in Vegas, 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:56.280 like it's sort of in May of twenty five, and 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:58.760 it took me about I don't know what this says 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:00.320 about me, but it took me about a full day 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:02.800 of like attending these events and talking to people to 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.360 be like, hey, I think that they're trying to sell 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:08.600 testosterum to the wider pub. This is an ad like, 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:10.440 this is an advertise. It took me a full day 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:13.760 to realize it. And I would say throughout the whole 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:20.440 process of making this series that. 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:20.160 That suspicion was only was only confirmed. 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:24.440 Yeah, So tell me what the business model is, because 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:26.920 when I first heard this, I was like, Oh, they 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.200 just they want to see like what people can do 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:31.159 if they're juice to the gills. Kind of interesting to 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:33.000 your point, Chris, kind of sounds like something you come 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:35.839 up with in your dorm room stoned, But there's a 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.120 bigger play here because they are paying these athletes in 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:40.280 same money. So then the questions will where's the money 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:42.400 coming from and how are they actually going to make money? 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:43.440 So tell us about that. 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:47.800 It's the enhanced games are funded at least at it's 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:51.640 the start. Now it's a publicly traded company by Christian Engermeyer, 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:54.080 who is this sort of biopharma billionaire who's played in 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:58.479 the in the psychedelic space for some time. And the 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:01.000 business model, like we said, the way they kind of 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:05.960 pitch it is that it is more bespoke version of 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:09.400 telehealth that will give you access to both drugs that 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:12.040 need to be prescribed, like testosterone, and also just a 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:13.760 wider range of supplements. I think they sell like a 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:15.440 sleep supplement for Chris, I think you said it was 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:19.120 like seventy bucks. Well, on top of that, they're selling testosterone, 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:22.440 they sell a whole list of peptides. They sell NAD 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:25.560 and Chris actually went through the website and bought it. 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:27.720 I have not done it yet, but as they pitched it, 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:28.960 it was like you're going to have to talk to 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:31.960 a doctor and it's going to be more specifically suited 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:33.720 to what we think that you need, But as I 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:37.160 understand it, that has not been the case. It basically 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:40.920 is just essentially the same website model as Hymns or 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:43.160 Row or Keeps or any of these other of these 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:43.919 other companies. 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:46.920 So when you bought stuff, Chris, So, the idea going 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:48.760 in as you're gonna meet with a doctor. It's it's 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:50.799 gonna feel like just getting a precision from a doctor. 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:52.800 But that didn't happen. So what was that process? Like? 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.400 Yeah, it was basically like filling out a Google doc 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:59.960 survey of like what are you suffering from right now? 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.720 And I was like anxiety, and it's like great prescription 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:05.960 on the way. I actually ordered some Sammarell and that, 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:09.239 in true enhanced fashion, hasn't gone to me yet because 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:13.159 of some logistical hold ups in their shipping. Yeah pipeline, 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:15.599 but you know, as soon as it gets to me, 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:19.039 I'm eager to try it. But basically the business model 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:21.560 is they're using this, you know, this wacky sort of 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:25.800 competition to sort of justify a framework that then they 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:29.960 could like use to sort of normalize ped us. And 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:32.479 that's kind of like the big overarching mission of this thing, 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:34.440 Like if we can provide a way where we can 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:37.480 sort of do it in their words like safely and 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:41.479 like rather conservatively honestly, like in the in the public eye, 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:43.520 then we can sell that to the masses. 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:45.880 And that's sort of how they're building this sole operation. 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:46.720 Yeah. 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:51.600 So Chris, your background as you were at GQ reporting 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:55.440 on wellness quite a bit. Sam, you're a producer. Also, 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:57.919 you were a D one athlete. You wrestled at Wyoming? 0:06:58.000 --> 0:06:58.440 Is that right? 0:06:58.720 --> 0:06:59.279 That's correct? 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:02.760 Of polks you go, So, how did how did you 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:04.400 two get pulled into this project? 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:07.159 I think for me, there's just you know, there's not 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:07.880 a lot of. 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:11.760 People who come from like an athletic background of the 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:15.160 level that I guess I come from that also work 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:17.160 in the in the in the journalism space. So I 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:18.320 think that it so I think that it was a 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:22.480 natural fit. But I was also really curious just from 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:27.480 my own experience. I was fascinated by the idea of 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:31.600 I guess just like the recovery part of PDEs because 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:35.880 I just remember being competing at at Wyoming and I 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:39.560 think people understanding theory the training regimen of like a 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:41.640 divisional athlete or a little bit level athlete, but like 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:43.160 to see it actually put in front of your face, 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:45.920 and to actually do it is another thing entirely. 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:46.560 And so of you're like. 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:49.960 An hour and a half in the morning, it's been 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:51.640 with from three and a half hours at night. You're 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:53.160 told when to go to class, you're told when to 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:55.720 go to study hall, you have to go to recovery 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:58.240 after practice, probably have tutors after that. So your entire 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:01.080 day is built for you. Five hours of exercise, six 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:03.920 days a week if you're not traveling. And even at 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:08.160 like nineteen to twenty three, my body was messed up 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:10.440 all the time. I still have like I mean like 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:12.600 I still got like I got pinkies that do crazy stuff, 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:18.480 like you know, like I was beat up, and the 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:20.920 question of like does this have to be this way? 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:25.520 Like are we kind of closing ourselves off to a 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:31.400 realm of drugs in pharmacology that could like make athletes 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:35.559 lives better without compromising their safety and health. I was 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:37.880 really interested to find that out. I don't know if 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:40.240 I think that the answers were satisfying, but I wanted to. 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:42.280 I wanted to see what they were setting. 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:46.160 You know, yeah, you're going look like I've been put 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:49.080 through hell on the wrestling team. 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:50.400 It's taken a toll on my body. 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:52.640 If there's this thing I could do that is not 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:54.680 going to affect my long term health, that seems like 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:57.560 it would be interesting from an athletic perspective, just to 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:01.160 make the lives of athletes not quite so totally. 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.880 And I think just because people don't realize how how 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:10.240 stringent the anti doping sort of guidelines are on substances 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:12.160 that you cannot you can and cannot take. So study 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:14.960 that came up like time and time again with the athletes. 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:17.800 We were interviewing one one of the athletes, Megan Romano, 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.920 who came out of retirement after like ten years a swimmer. 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:23.160 She was like, I was even I was afraid to 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:25.560 take ibprofen because you never know what's going to be tainted. 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:27.080 You never know what's going to get you banned. Like 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:29.280 the list changes constantly. The book of like wat of 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:32.480 guidelines is like a tone of different substances that you 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:37.600 can and cannot take. It changes, it changes constantly, And 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:40.520 it was also just creative without athlete, without athlete input. 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:42.760 So for me, I was just really interested in how 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:45.239 this could affect the athlete experience. 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:48.480 Yeah, that makes sense. So you kind of mentioned who 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:52.800 is behind this. But how did this whole idea start 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:54.960 to get legs of the enhanced games. 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:58.880 Yeah, so Aaron Desusa sort of like was kicking around 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:03.080 a bunch of ideas post his Gawker project a couple 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:06.520 of years ago, and he presented this sort of idea 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:09.640 to Peter Teel, who's one of his buddies, and was like, hey, 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.679 you know what if we threw a sort of steroid 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:17.480 Olympics that you know, sort of allowed us to put 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:20.400 on this big, big show, We'll create a lot of noise, 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:24.120 it'll cause a lot of mischief, and from there we 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:27.160 can sort of develop and reverse engineer as sort of 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.160 business plan. So I think they kind of went in 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:34.120 with the big, nasty, sort of like you know, a 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:37.080 dirt kicking idea, and then they sort of like, you know, 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:39.400 we're building the plane on the way down. To mix 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:43.959 every metaphor possible to describe this, but yeah. 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:47.440 So in a way, yes, it does have elements of 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:49.679 the this is an idea that you'd come up with 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:51.560 in the dorm room all stoned. At the same time, 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:54.720 it's coming from two people that have billions of dollars 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:56.600 and they're like, hey, we could actually figure this thing 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:59.120 out and then they also have the sort of gear 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:00.840 in their mind going all right, and then how do 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:04.400 we turn this into a super profitable business potentially? 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:06.880 Yeah, And so that's that's sort of how I came 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:10.319 onto it too, because Aaron and Christian Angermeyer went on 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:13.199 Joe Rogan's podcast, like not too long ago. I think 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:15.560 it was like in was it twenty twenty two or 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:16.760 twenty twenty three? 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:19.720 I believe it was twenty four, twenty four, twenty four. 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:21.840 Yeah, So they went on, and you know, when I 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:24.440 was at GQ, like sort of my big story that 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:27.000 I wrote over there was the story about the guys 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:31.480 who got their legs artificially lengthened during COVID secretly, And 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:33.960 so for me, I was like, I kind of want 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:36.520 my next big story to be about weird stuff we 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:38.959 do our bodies the way we can augment it and 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.840 sort of improve it. I'm using air quotes here, but 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:46.360 improve our bodies. And when I heard them on Rogan, 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:49.320 they were like Carnival Barkers basically, they were kind of like, 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:51.840 you know, this is going to change everything. This is 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:54.199 going to like, you know, sure in a new paradigm 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:59.079 for enhancement and the future of humanity. And then when 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:01.840 I actually wrote them and like you know, kind of 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:04.480 pitched myself to be the guy to write a big 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:06.920 magazine story on it, it was kind of like, oh, 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.600 this is just like another business. And so there was 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:13.640 like this like incongruity between what they were actually pitching 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:16.040 and what that actual project turned out to be. 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:20.360 Yeah, it was very much an extension of Peter Teal's 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:23.360 trans sort of transhumanist vision. For those who might not know, 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:27.400 transhumanism is an I like an ideology that has existed 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:29.720 in the tech space for a long time that basically 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:34.280 says that, like to avoid the inevitable collapse of humanity, 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:38.000 like that we must enhance and depending on who you ask, 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:40.920 even like sort of supersede our own bodies, whether that 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.760 is like uploading yourself to the cloud, or it's aging 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:48.880 yourself with like I think of Brian Johnson using the 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:53.520 blood of his son. You know, it's it's part of 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:57.120 this this transhumanist ideology, this transhumanist vision that that that 0:12:57.160 --> 0:12:59.120 Peter Teal very much, very much subscribes to. 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:01.840 Part of the art argument that they're making is that 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:07.960 doping is already happening in the Olympics and Sports. So 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:10.000 I heard one of the numbers that one of the 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:12.840 founders tossed out. They said, forty four percent of Olympians 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:14.680 admitted to pds in the last year. 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:16.440 Did you report on that? Is that real? 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:20.199 Yeah? So that is a study, that is it's a 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:21.120 it's a real study. 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:25.280 It is an outlier among other sort of studies that 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:29.080 have been done on the rates of doping and the Olympics. 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:32.040 And the researcher that did it consistently has sort of 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:34.160 outliers in his data. It's it's anywhere from like ten 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:37.440 to twenty percent higher than than most other studies. Fine, 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:40.000 twenty percent of athletes in the Olympics doing drugs is 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:43.120 still a significants. I wouldn't I wouldn't say that that's nothing, 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:47.160 you know, but it is. It is an outlier in 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:48.240 the data for sure. 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:51.760 So they pulled the most favorable number because they're going 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:52.160 to do well. 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:54.120 If forty some one would ever do that in the 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:58.640 wellness space might come on Manyeah. 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:00.720 So they're basically saying, all right, if forty four percent 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:04.920 of Olympians are already doping, like that makes an unfair 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:07.880 playing field at the real Olympics. So what if we 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:11.040 just you know, pull back the curtain and say, hey, basically, 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:14.560 more or less anything goes, let's let's see what happens. 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:15.680 So that's kind of their argument. 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.080 Yeah, yeah, and then you know it, it kind of 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:20.760 has a little bit of a point, like it's like 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:23.640 you look at the Russian Federation or like the Chinese, 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:26.240 like you know, so it's like, oh, these big apparatuses 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:31.080 are basically like helping their athletes gain an unfair advantage. 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.000 And then what are they getting from you know, the 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:36.240 IOC or WATA. It's like basically like a slap on 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:38.800 the wrist, like they're still competing, they're still able to 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:42.520 win medals. It's a sometimes it's it feels like a 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:44.440 little silly. So I kind of see their point in 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:45.520 some of this. 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:50.440 Yeah, and there is some research that suggests even if 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:54.760 you've used certain banned substances in the past, those can 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:58.600 still impact your performance moving forward. So you'll still have 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.720 you know, you'll have gained more muscle than you could 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:03.960 have without them. While not muscle's going to stick around 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:06.080 even if you're not on them, you're still getting this 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:09.120 sort of boost from the past more or less. 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:12.040 Yeah, and you know, There was this really funny example 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:14.960 of this Australian swimmer named James Magnuson. He was the 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.560 first dude who signed on with Enhanced a couple of 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:20.760 years ago, and he actually ended up taking like they 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:23.040 didn't have a protocol in place, they didn't know what 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.160 they were doing. He was kind of effectively, you know, 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:29.240 the trial balloon step free into the air, and he 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:32.160 ended up doping so much that it made him significantly 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:33.080 slower in the water. 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:34.280 Like he was huge. 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.960 He looked like, I don't know, like he Man, basically 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:40.800 like the cartoon version of he Man, which you know, 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:45.040 maybe having giant shoulders isn't the best for your buoyancy. 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:48.120 In the water, but you know, the dude, the dude. 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:49.560 Was an ocean liner when he should have been a 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:50.520 speedboat basically. 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:52.840 I mean, I'm not convinced that wasn't a problem at 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:55.120 the Broader Games themselves a few months ago too. 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:57.280 You know, like having more muscle on your body does 0:15:57.320 --> 0:15:58.360 not necessarily. 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.120 Equate to like swimming faster in the water, right you 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.760 are basically turning yourself into a rock. You're far less buoyant. Uh, 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:06.440 it makes it, It makes it a lot harder. So 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:10.520 I did find myself wondering why they chose swimming given 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.400 given the reality of you know, the way that the 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:14.040 water works. 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:16.400 But yeah, because a lot of the a lot of 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:20.520 the drugs they are offering and athletes are using are 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:24.720 essentially muscle enhancers. Are they using stuff like EPO for 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:27.920 because most of the sports are power sports, right, so yeah, 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:32.080 distances there's sprinting, but there's not they're not doing like 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:33.480 marathons or anything like that. 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:35.640 No, they've been very like, we don't want to do 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:36.200 right now. 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:38.160 We don't want to do anything that is an endurance 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:41.280 sport because it's not tiktokable. Basically, they want everything to 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:43.960 be able to they they're very candidly candidate about that. 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.120 They want to be able to throw it on a clip, 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:49.160 publish it, put it out there, get. 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.480 As many pieces as they can, which you could. 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.360 Tell this was their model by being at the games 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:56.920 for kind like we were. We were kind of depressed 0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:00.520 being we were sequestered into this kind of corner of 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:04.080 the arena and given very very limited. 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:07.080 Access to interview the athletes during the games themselves. And 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:09.600 meanwhile they were letting. 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:12.560 YouTube I don't even know who they were sort of 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:16.719 YouTube influencers Zoomer TikTok influencers like go poolside, and they 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:20.600 were doing like Fortnite remote dances and interviewing athletes right 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:21.879 as they came out of the right as they came 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:24.199 out of the water. So it was, it was, it was. 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.880 It very much felt like they were trying to cater 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:28.640 specifically to. 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:29.240 New age media. 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:33.120 Yeah, and you know these like short bursts, sprint sports 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:35.879 and like lifting. It's like it makes a lot of 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:39.240 sense for like, you know, the online economy, but for 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:41.919 a six to eight hour live event, maybe not the 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:45.720 best or most entertaining way to throw first games, I guess. 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:47.760 So you guys go to Vegas. 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.680 It's at the event is held at Resorts World, which 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:54.080 is a big Newish casino at the end of the strip. 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:58.679 It's very nice. What are the vibes like before the 0:17:58.760 --> 0:17:59.879 event actually happens. 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:06.159 So they had sort of built this bespoke structure in 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:08.800 the middle of a Resorts World, which was it had 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:13.040 a four lane pool, one hundred yard track I think, 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:15.600 or maybe a little bit longer than that, and then 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:17.440 like a little stage for powerlifting. 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:19.200 There was a big. 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.359 DJ booth and this was all taking place in like 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:23.720 sort of the shadow of Trump Tower with the sphere 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:27.159 in the background. The vibes were a little I don't know, 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:29.800 this is probably a little harsh, but they felt very 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:30.879 cursed to me, Like. 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:33.240 What do you mean by that? 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:37.320 The swirl of the TikTokers, and then like there were 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:40.480 the athlete families sort of in the stands. 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:43.320 They neglected to put a roof over the whole. 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:46.840 Thing, which you know, if you're competing in weightlifting or 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:50.000 track and you're in the middle of like the Nevada Desert, 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:53.359 that's probably not the best like situation to break a 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.520 world record in. So the sun's beating down, there's like 0:18:56.520 --> 0:19:00.320 old ladies like getting like having wheelchairs requested, and it 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.560 feels sort of like it feels like a sort of 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:06.520 wellness see Coachella in some ways. But they hadn't figured 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:08.400 out all the kinks yet, and sort of that's kind 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:10.280 of like how it is when we like parachute it 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:10.920 into this thing. 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:13.879 It was ninety six degrees that day, yeah, because it's 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.959 light Mary, Yeah, and it was I don't know if 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:19.959 you remember what I said to you beforehand, but I 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:22.679 was like, I've spent my entire life going to wrestling 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:24.720 tournaments where you compete for seven minutes at a time. 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:28.280 Nobody here is going to be accustomed to how much 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:31.320 of this is just waiting, just waiting for your turn. 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:34.600 And they're kind of rolling through the events. 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:37.160 Really slowly, and a lot of it is I would 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:40.240 say probably four hours of it. We don't quote me 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:42.919 on that, but like a significant chunk at the time 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.960 was dedicated to Olympic weightlifting, because that just takes time. 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:49.400 People need to rest between reps. No shade to Olympic weightlifting. 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:51.720 I think it's really cool, but it is not the 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:55.439 best spectator sport I think it is. It happens, you know, 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:59.440 like a handful of seconds. You're competing at a time, 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:04.520 ton of build up, and I think they attempted. They 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:06.920 only attempted one world record the whole time. They didn't 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:08.800 even in the way that think they didn't even attempt. 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:10.800 They didn't throw the weight on the bar and give 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:12.840 it a go with with almost any of their almost 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:14.520 any other athletes. And this is the height of the day. 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:16.679 So for most of the most of the weightlifting, the 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:19.960 crowd was like empty downstairs, drinking free beer that they've 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:24.199 been given by enhanced because it was for no, no 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:25.399 public tickets. 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:26.320 It was invite only. 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:29.720 Everybody in attendance was either pressed, family or an influencer. 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:33.919 And so the deal for athletes is explain how they 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:35.959 get paid and what the numbers are and how that 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:41.000 compares to doing it the quote unquote non enhanced way. 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:42.400 You're trying to get to the video Olympics. 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:45.600 And yeah, so you know, the sort of like pattern 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:48.760 net emerged for us was if you're like not an 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.720 NBA player or an NFL player or whatever you're you're 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:55.000 you're basically not making any money from your chosen sport. 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:58.239 And so for a lot of these let's let's take 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:03.439 swimmers for example, like their options after they're they're retired 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:05.640 from their swimming career are basically, you know, they could 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:09.280 they could teach kids, they could do seminars, but maybe 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:10.840 you're not the type of person who wants to like, 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:13.320 you know, help kids, like you know, kick around in 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:17.840 the pool or whatever. And so if you're signing on 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:21.720 with Enhance, you get paid a monthly stipend. We don't 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:23.800 have the exact numbers on that because they decline to 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:27.399 share it. You have basic health care, you have the 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:30.399 futuristic health care with all the you know, enhancements and 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:33.760 sort of like health monitoring and recovery stuff, and you 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:36.800 had free housing and food, so you basically had a 0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:38.800 lot of your amenities taken care of and you could 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:42.439 basically focus on training and training only, which you know, 0:21:42.440 --> 0:21:45.919 it's kind of like just like a luxurious version of 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:48.280 going back to college and except you don't have to 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:50.119 go to class. Basically, it's it's kind of how I 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:50.760 understood it. 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:53.719 We should add though, that they that they they were 0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:57.679 only given those amenities if you agreed to be well, 0:21:57.680 --> 0:21:58.919 not all of it. They were only given the like 0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:02.040 food and board and access to the pharmaceuticals if they 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:05.600 agreed to go to the United of Air memorates and 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:09.520 participate in this study that they're doing on the drugs themselves. 0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:11.520 So you had to essentially. 0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:15.160 Agree to be a guinea pig to get not the stipend, 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:19.639 but the board and the food and free access to 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:21.359 the pharmaceuticals. 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:25.320 And then one of the big reasons that athletes would 0:22:25.320 --> 0:22:28.000 do this is that if you win an event, the 0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:30.000 purse is pretty big, and then if you break a 0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:32.719 world record at the Games, it's even bigger. 0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:35.879 So what are the numbers there winners were getting. 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:39.080 In most of the events, we're getting two hundred and 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:42.240 fifty thousand dollars, which is if you're running track, that's 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:44.320 like more than you might make in your entire career, 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:46.960 with the exception of the best of. 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:47.880 The best of the best of the best. 0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:50.040 Yeah, and then low end was like fifty thousand dollars, 0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:52.120 So there was a range of money you were guaranteed 0:22:52.160 --> 0:22:54.080 to make from just competing alone basically. 0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:56.760 And then for some of the events, I believe the 0:22:56.760 --> 0:23:01.679 one hundred meters sprint for men's and fifty and one 0:23:01.760 --> 0:23:04.760 hundred meter free in swimming, if you broke a record, 0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:05.760 you got a million dollars. 0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:06.760 The person was less. 0:23:06.800 --> 0:23:09.280 The world record breaking purse was less than that for 0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:10.720 other events, but for those ones it was up to 0:23:10.720 --> 0:23:11.399 a million dollars. 0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:13.680 Yeah, And I think just to put a pin in 0:23:13.760 --> 0:23:16.920 that so people have context, if you play in the NFL, 0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:20.360 you're probably guaranteed at least two million bucks a year. 0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:24.520 You play a few years, you're like, okay, I'm probably 0:23:24.560 --> 0:23:26.959 gonna be okay for life, so long as I just 0:23:27.400 --> 0:23:30.000 manage my money decently. Now, if you're at a decent level, 0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:32.479 like you can be in the nine figure range, so like, 0:23:33.000 --> 0:23:35.919 you know, some of these like bigger professional sports, you 0:23:35.960 --> 0:23:38.159 can do your thing, you'll make enough money that you're 0:23:38.200 --> 0:23:41.320 probably set for life. But with more of these niche 0:23:41.440 --> 0:23:45.960 Olympic sports, you're really scratching by unless you're like the 0:23:46.040 --> 0:23:48.560 absolute top, like a Michael Phelps, and you can get 0:23:48.600 --> 0:23:51.399 these big advertising deals and all these other things, but 0:23:51.480 --> 0:23:53.840 like the average athlete is hardly making any money. 0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:56.119 Yeah, that's that's basically it. 0:23:56.160 --> 0:23:58.280 And we talked to a number of the athletes, and 0:23:58.280 --> 0:24:00.560 they all had the reasons for doing it, Like, you know, 0:24:00.640 --> 0:24:02.439 some of them had just put down a mortgage and 0:24:02.480 --> 0:24:04.560 then lost a bunch of their other sponsors, so this 0:24:04.720 --> 0:24:07.359 was like a way to you know, like earn a living. 0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:07.920 Basically. 0:24:08.760 --> 0:24:11.160 One of the more interesting guys, his name is Andre Govarov. 0:24:11.359 --> 0:24:14.560 He had actually fled Ukraine during the war and his 0:24:14.640 --> 0:24:16.600 business back there was basically destroyed. 0:24:16.840 --> 0:24:17.679 He had no source of. 0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:20.959 Like literally destroyed to be clear, like with missiles. Yeah. 0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:24.000 Yeah, and he you know, he was like, in order 0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:26.560 to compete at an elite level that I want to 0:24:26.560 --> 0:24:29.680 compete at, it costs you know, ten thousand dollars a month, 0:24:29.880 --> 0:24:32.560 like between the coaches, I got to pay the trainers, 0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:36.359 my recovery, my food, all that stuff. So he was like, 0:24:36.480 --> 0:24:40.600 enhanced was just financially, you know, the most logical move 0:24:40.640 --> 0:24:43.600 that I can make in order to like be who 0:24:43.640 --> 0:24:44.119 I want to be. 0:24:44.800 --> 0:24:45.840 We're going to take a quick break. 0:24:45.880 --> 0:24:47.919 Then we're going to look at the actual events of 0:24:48.000 --> 0:24:51.000 the enhanced games and the records that were set and 0:24:51.080 --> 0:25:00.199 not set. Okay, So at this point we've said, up, 0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:04.119 we've got this big event. We're going to let people 0:25:04.480 --> 0:25:07.120 juice to the gills. We're going to see what happens 0:25:07.560 --> 0:25:10.280 do they get these crazy times and weights lifted we've 0:25:10.320 --> 0:25:14.080 never seen before. We've set down that this is sort 0:25:14.119 --> 0:25:17.280 of one big advertisement in order to sell these things 0:25:17.280 --> 0:25:19.920 to the public. We've set up the fact that athletes 0:25:19.960 --> 0:25:22.359 are being pulled into this because they can make more 0:25:22.400 --> 0:25:24.560 money than they might have made their entire career for this. 0:25:25.560 --> 0:25:29.840 Now the event happens, what happens with the times? Are 0:25:30.359 --> 0:25:32.720 these records being shattered across the board? 0:25:34.880 --> 0:25:40.160 No? No, they go most of the entire day without 0:25:40.160 --> 0:25:44.120 a record. They come close once in one hundred meters 0:25:44.200 --> 0:25:47.800 men's sprint, they were like one hundreds of a second off. 0:25:49.320 --> 0:25:50.320 But in most of the events. 0:25:50.560 --> 0:25:51.840 The one that comes to mind is kind of being 0:25:51.880 --> 0:25:53.680 the most egregious of the women's hundred meter sprint. 0:25:53.680 --> 0:25:57.440 I believe that I don't believe any of the times 0:25:57.440 --> 0:25:58.280 that were run would. 0:25:58.080 --> 0:26:01.720 Have qualified for the Olympics. All the fine for the Olympics. Yeah, 0:26:01.760 --> 0:26:05.280 even the winner, I believe. I have to don't check that, 0:26:05.359 --> 0:26:06.560 but I'm pretty sure there was a case. They were 0:26:06.560 --> 0:26:10.359 all like the the eleven second range, which is, you know, 0:26:11.880 --> 0:26:13.520 certainly faster than you or I, but not. 0:26:13.440 --> 0:26:14.440 An Olympic caliber. 0:26:15.280 --> 0:26:20.960 And not only that, they had multiple, multiple non enhanced athletes. 0:26:20.960 --> 0:26:23.280 So for context, you could join the enhanced Games and 0:26:23.560 --> 0:26:25.240 say I don't want to do steroids, I just want 0:26:25.280 --> 0:26:26.120 to compete. 0:26:25.760 --> 0:26:26.240 For the money. 0:26:27.040 --> 0:26:28.680 And they had multiple athletes who were doing that, or 0:26:28.720 --> 0:26:32.480 at least said they were doing that, were won their events. 0:26:32.520 --> 0:26:34.800 One of them was Hunter Armstrong, who the guy that 0:26:35.240 --> 0:26:37.920 was trying to save his mortgage, basically who signed. 0:26:37.720 --> 0:26:38.280 Up for the Games. 0:26:38.480 --> 0:26:44.920 He won one hundred meter backstroke, yeah, backstroke, as well 0:26:44.920 --> 0:26:47.479 as the Fred Curley, the one hundred meter sprinter, and 0:26:48.280 --> 0:26:50.240 the women's sprinter as well, whose name is escaping me. 0:26:51.240 --> 0:26:55.280 So they have so basically one the times are not crazy, 0:26:55.600 --> 0:26:58.040 The whites lifted are not crazy, and people are winning 0:26:58.119 --> 0:27:00.720 who are not even enhanced, and this is supposed to 0:27:00.760 --> 0:27:03.040 be Let's see what happens when we enhance the hell 0:27:03.080 --> 0:27:03.960 out of these athletes. 0:27:04.000 --> 0:27:06.760 And yeah, and I don't know about you, Sam, but 0:27:06.800 --> 0:27:10.240 you could sort of like feel the tens, the tension 0:27:10.440 --> 0:27:12.879 like sort of like building in the in the arena. 0:27:12.880 --> 0:27:14.920 As the night goes on, it's like, Oh, another one 0:27:15.000 --> 0:27:18.040 that's not smashed, another one that didn't even come close. 0:27:18.160 --> 0:27:21.880 Another lift that was like far, far far off from 0:27:21.880 --> 0:27:24.920 a world record. And it wasn't until the very last race, 0:27:25.080 --> 0:27:28.480 which was a fifty meters free and they actually had maybe, 0:27:28.720 --> 0:27:32.160 you know, pound for pound, the highest caliber of athletes 0:27:32.200 --> 0:27:33.919 competing in that one, so that was kind of like 0:27:33.960 --> 0:27:34.680 their big bet. 0:27:35.400 --> 0:27:36.400 And it wasn't until that. 0:27:36.480 --> 0:27:40.600 Very last end of the night that the swimmer, Christian 0:27:40.600 --> 0:27:43.960 Golamyve like touches the wall and then like there's a 0:27:44.000 --> 0:27:46.119 split second that happens in between that where they like 0:27:46.240 --> 0:27:48.480 verify that a world record was broken, and then all 0:27:48.480 --> 0:27:50.919 the screens like flash red. It's like, oh, they had 0:27:50.960 --> 0:27:52.480 all these like you know, I don't know if it 0:27:52.520 --> 0:27:54.880 was fireworks, but just like all this stuff firing off 0:27:54.920 --> 0:27:57.360 that they were sitting on all night and you could 0:27:57.440 --> 0:27:59.960 just sort of feel like I was looking at the 0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:03.240 executives like it was like a load had lifted off 0:28:03.240 --> 0:28:05.760 their shoulders, like they were so relieved to finally have 0:28:05.880 --> 0:28:10.040 had a gens like break one single world record with 0:28:09.600 --> 0:28:10.879 the Games. 0:28:11.119 --> 0:28:14.400 But he did that in some sort of suit that's 0:28:14.480 --> 0:28:19.760 banned in the normal Olympics, right, he did it and what's. 0:28:19.560 --> 0:28:21.320 Called the super suit, which is just like really it 0:28:21.359 --> 0:28:23.840 looks like a wrestling singlet, but even kind of tighter 0:28:23.840 --> 0:28:25.760 like sumber withking a wrestling singlet in a what suit, 0:28:26.440 --> 0:28:28.440 but it goes to the ankle and comes kind of 0:28:28.480 --> 0:28:30.359 over your body and what it like, it kind of 0:28:30.359 --> 0:28:34.320 compresses you. It makes you more more buoyant, which I 0:28:34.359 --> 0:28:38.320 do think when they first initially broke a record, and 0:28:38.360 --> 0:28:42.320 for context they they it's kind of a proof of concept. 0:28:42.360 --> 0:28:44.600 A year ago they had gold Christian Golomy break the 0:28:44.640 --> 0:28:47.280 fifty meters world record as it stood at that point, 0:28:48.040 --> 0:28:51.120 which had been set by Caesar Clo in the late 0:28:51.120 --> 0:28:56.880 two thousands in a super suit before the supersuit was banned. Okay, 0:28:57.040 --> 0:29:01.200 a few months after that, Cameron McAvoy, an Australian swimmer, 0:29:01.240 --> 0:29:04.560 broke Christian the world record that the rest of the 0:29:04.600 --> 0:29:07.720 world recognized, and Christian gold Mus world record in a 0:29:07.760 --> 0:29:11.800 regular sort of speedo, not in a super suit, so 0:29:11.840 --> 0:29:15.200 did not have the like extra gear that Christian gold 0:29:15.280 --> 0:29:17.600 meaf again raced in and broke the broke the record 0:29:17.640 --> 0:29:22.800 in so that I honestly, to me, that puts more 0:29:22.800 --> 0:29:26.960 of an asterisk on the record than the steroids do. 0:29:28.040 --> 0:29:28.120 Uh. 0:29:28.360 --> 0:29:29.720 The line that I always say to people is like, 0:29:29.720 --> 0:29:31.840 I use the Barry Bonds example, which is obviously extreme. 0:29:31.880 --> 0:29:33.440 You know, like you could go on YouTube right now 0:29:33.480 --> 0:29:37.240 and watch there's hundreds of videos on YouTube just analyzing 0:29:37.280 --> 0:29:40.440 Barry Bond's swing is the most beautiful swing ever. Right, 0:29:41.360 --> 0:29:44.840 Steroids aren't gonna make your the technique of your swing better. 0:29:45.560 --> 0:29:48.120 You know, they're gonna make you stronger, make you recover better, 0:29:48.120 --> 0:29:49.920 but they're not gonna make you better at swinging a bat. 0:29:51.360 --> 0:29:54.920 But then like it's the supersuit is almost like benching 0:29:54.920 --> 0:29:57.800 on like a sleeve the power lifters do versus benching 0:29:57.840 --> 0:29:59.920 raw without, you know, like it's your. 0:29:59.800 --> 0:30:02.000 At a gear to a thing to assist you. 0:30:02.080 --> 0:30:03.520 At that point, if you want to go down the 0:30:03.520 --> 0:30:05.920 philosophical route, it's like why not put a fan behind him? 0:30:05.920 --> 0:30:08.440 And like him to propel him forward? Why not give 0:30:08.520 --> 0:30:11.040 him flippers? Why not? You know, what is the what 0:30:11.160 --> 0:30:13.440 is the logical end of what you're what you're doing? 0:30:13.600 --> 0:30:15.240 I think here was kind of my question. 0:30:15.880 --> 0:30:20.400 So the so these events start happening, no records are 0:30:20.400 --> 0:30:24.200 getting broken initially, and then you finally have this moment 0:30:24.240 --> 0:30:27.440 where you know, screen flashes read. At that point, what 0:30:27.480 --> 0:30:30.480 are the what's the energy among people who are not 0:30:30.800 --> 0:30:33.280 the owners? You said, it's almost like the felt relief. 0:30:33.320 --> 0:30:37.160 But what are people in the press area thinking and saying? 0:30:37.320 --> 0:30:37.880 What? 0:30:37.880 --> 0:30:40.560 What's the reaction from the TikTokers and the YouTubers. Is 0:30:40.600 --> 0:30:42.800 it sort of like this, I don't know if this 0:30:42.880 --> 0:30:45.160 is going well or at that point when that happens, 0:30:45.720 --> 0:30:48.480 is it are people reacting as if it's a success. 0:30:48.920 --> 0:30:51.280 I think the TikTokers didn't really care. 0:30:52.560 --> 0:30:55.640 Yeah, either way that the families were happy. 0:30:55.640 --> 0:30:56.600 The athletes were extatic. 0:30:56.600 --> 0:30:59.360 I mean, these people have been living together for many months, 0:30:59.400 --> 0:31:01.360 you know, and tells them Abu dabims. 0:31:01.160 --> 0:31:04.640 Them like they're clearly they're very kind of tight knit. 0:31:04.680 --> 0:31:06.920 So there they were extatic for I mean they were 0:31:06.960 --> 0:31:09.920 extatic throughout for whoever won, for who, you know, the 0:31:10.040 --> 0:31:12.760 energy for them was kind of always always very high. 0:31:13.080 --> 0:31:17.200 The press was clearly, I think, quite suspicious of the premise. 0:31:17.240 --> 0:31:19.800 What I've been kind of saying is like, I don't 0:31:19.800 --> 0:31:21.280 know if this says about me as a journalist, but 0:31:21.320 --> 0:31:22.960 I was like, you know, if they had broken a 0:31:22.960 --> 0:31:24.720 ton of records, that would have been like an incredible 0:31:24.760 --> 0:31:27.320 story just in terms of it being interesting, not good 0:31:27.400 --> 0:31:30.000 or bad, just really interesting. If they had broken no 0:31:30.200 --> 0:31:34.360 records at all, that would have been so interesting. But 0:31:34.480 --> 0:31:36.480 breaking one in the event that we thought they might 0:31:36.480 --> 0:31:39.280 break it in that they'd already broken it in at 0:31:39.280 --> 0:31:41.360 one point we thought they might break it again with 0:31:41.480 --> 0:31:44.520 this suit on. At the very end, I was like, 0:31:44.600 --> 0:31:46.960 this is I don't want to say a letdown, but 0:31:49.040 --> 0:31:50.880 it wasn't as compelling as I think that it could 0:31:50.880 --> 0:31:52.720 have been. It was hard for the story part of 0:31:52.760 --> 0:31:55.160 my brain to not be like, ah, dang. You know, 0:31:55.200 --> 0:31:56.840 I think a lot of the press ultimilarly. I don't 0:31:56.840 --> 0:31:58.480 know about you, Chris, Yeah. 0:31:58.640 --> 0:32:00.800 You know when you asked about what was the mood 0:32:00.800 --> 0:32:03.560 between the influencers, it actually took me a second because 0:32:03.560 --> 0:32:06.240 by then most of them had already left, so the 0:32:06.520 --> 0:32:09.240 stands were a little bit empty by that point, which 0:32:09.320 --> 0:32:13.600 was you know, probably not in their favor, but yeah, 0:32:13.680 --> 0:32:17.800 I do think the for me at least, Like I 0:32:18.360 --> 0:32:21.240 gained a lot of sympathy for these athletes over the months, 0:32:21.280 --> 0:32:23.560 just like the stuff that they struggle with, like the 0:32:23.640 --> 0:32:27.840 work they put in. How unique their situation was in 0:32:27.920 --> 0:32:30.280 terms of like being the best at what you do 0:32:30.560 --> 0:32:33.000 and being asked to train together in like the same 0:32:33.040 --> 0:32:35.440 pool every day, Like that was really fascinating. Like the 0:32:35.560 --> 0:32:38.880 dynamic in there was a bunch of alphas in the 0:32:38.920 --> 0:32:40.920 same room. You look to your left, it's like the 0:32:40.960 --> 0:32:42.600 second best guy. You look to your right, it's the 0:32:42.640 --> 0:32:44.800 third best guy, and they kind of like pushes you 0:32:44.880 --> 0:32:47.400 to be better in a lot of ways that you 0:32:47.440 --> 0:32:51.240 know how much that had to do with their success 0:32:51.320 --> 0:32:53.680 versus peds, I don't really know, but I thought it 0:32:53.720 --> 0:32:57.880 was like a really like sort of cute like dynamic. 0:32:58.360 --> 0:33:00.280 Yeah, the I mean the athletes of the people throughout 0:33:00.320 --> 0:33:02.760 this process that I have absolutely the most sympathy for 0:33:03.080 --> 0:33:03.720 the ones that I am. 0:33:03.840 --> 0:33:05.760 I would say I'm the happiest for like it is. 0:33:06.120 --> 0:33:08.920 I would say my criticism of the Enhanced Games in 0:33:08.960 --> 0:33:10.840 no way it should be construed as being support for 0:33:10.880 --> 0:33:14.400 the IOC or for the world Antidoping Agency, something that 0:33:14.400 --> 0:33:17.760 I thought was quite poetic in the days immediately after 0:33:18.040 --> 0:33:21.720 the Enhanced Games. I don't think they could have timed 0:33:21.720 --> 0:33:24.200 this worse. Kirsty Coventry, who's the president of the IOC, 0:33:24.440 --> 0:33:30.360 was interviewed and she said, in effect, she said, I 0:33:30.360 --> 0:33:33.040 don't believe in paying athletes like prize money. Was kind 0:33:33.040 --> 0:33:34.600 of the arc that she was asked about praying prize 0:33:34.600 --> 0:33:36.800 money to Olympic athletes. She was like, I don't believe 0:33:36.840 --> 0:33:40.560 in that. I think that's a bad thing, which was 0:33:40.680 --> 0:33:43.880 which is just you know, the IOC makes ten zillions 0:33:43.920 --> 0:33:44.320 of dollars. 0:33:45.160 --> 0:33:45.960 They have plenty of money. 0:33:46.000 --> 0:33:47.960 It's technically a nonprofit, you know, I think that they 0:33:48.000 --> 0:33:51.040 can afford to pay life changing money to some of 0:33:51.080 --> 0:33:54.160 their to some of their athletes. On top of that, 0:33:54.600 --> 0:33:59.000 the I think that the methods that we use to 0:33:59.000 --> 0:34:01.240 decide who's doping and who isn't. Our sort of antidoping 0:34:01.280 --> 0:34:05.000 policies as they exist are draconian. Athletes have to surrender 0:34:05.040 --> 0:34:07.400 to test it basically any given moment, any given time, 0:34:07.560 --> 0:34:10.640 Their athletes, their whereabouts have to be given to the 0:34:10.719 --> 0:34:14.880 Royal Antidoping Agency literally twenty four to seven if you 0:34:14.880 --> 0:34:17.040 miss a test if I think three times, then you 0:34:17.080 --> 0:34:20.200 give a year or two year ban if you're just 0:34:20.239 --> 0:34:21.160 not where you're supposed to be. 0:34:22.960 --> 0:34:25.000 They have no sort of say on what is and 0:34:25.120 --> 0:34:25.840 isn't banned. 0:34:28.000 --> 0:34:34.000 It is also draconian, I think, kind of also dystopian 0:34:34.800 --> 0:34:38.759 in a way, almost opposite the spectrum of the Enhanced Games. 0:34:39.400 --> 0:34:41.680 And I have to think that there is a better option, 0:34:41.960 --> 0:34:43.080 some sort of middle ground. 0:34:43.680 --> 0:34:46.160 We'll take a break, then we'll talk about the backlash 0:34:46.239 --> 0:34:57.600 that happened after the disappointments in the Enhanced Games. So 0:34:57.760 --> 0:35:03.160 the event happens, as you said, kind of a letdown all. 0:35:03.200 --> 0:35:04.960 Like you said, you wouldn't want to call it a letdown, 0:35:04.960 --> 0:35:06.239 but we'll just go with that. 0:35:07.239 --> 0:35:09.399 You can call it a letdown. I think that's for Yeah, 0:35:09.480 --> 0:35:10.800 I stand by that it's a letdown. 0:35:10.960 --> 0:35:12.560 Yeah, event was a letdown. 0:35:15.760 --> 0:35:21.080 Stock price crashes like seventy five percent in the ensuing days. 0:35:22.520 --> 0:35:25.840 It could just be my algorithm, But I did not 0:35:25.880 --> 0:35:27.719 say a positive thing. I just saw a ton of 0:35:27.760 --> 0:35:32.520 hate being thrown at this thing. What reactions did you 0:35:32.600 --> 0:35:34.680 see and how do you sort of process that? 0:35:35.520 --> 0:35:35.719 You know? 0:35:36.320 --> 0:35:39.520 I think our algorithms are probably coded very similarly, like 0:35:39.760 --> 0:35:42.600 it was a you know, maybe ninety nine percent people 0:35:42.719 --> 0:35:43.799 dunking on the whole thing. 0:35:44.480 --> 0:35:46.400 But at the same time, I feel like this whole. 0:35:46.160 --> 0:35:49.640 Thing was designed to sort of court controversy and to like, 0:35:49.760 --> 0:35:53.359 you know, I feel like for them, they feel like. 0:35:53.320 --> 0:35:54.760 Any attention is good attention. 0:35:55.600 --> 0:35:57.840 And so just the fact that people were talking about 0:35:57.840 --> 0:36:00.359 it and they had a lot of eyeballs and people 0:36:00.360 --> 0:36:02.560 would going to their website, like I think they would 0:36:02.600 --> 0:36:05.360 consider that a win, and you know, they were in 0:36:05.400 --> 0:36:08.279 the aftermath, they were trying to spin this as, hey, look, 0:36:08.360 --> 0:36:12.040 we had a bunch of athletes who happened to be 0:36:12.120 --> 0:36:15.359 thirty five who set prs and that's a you know, 0:36:15.400 --> 0:36:18.359 that's a moral victory for us and for them, and 0:36:19.239 --> 0:36:22.200 you know, maybe that can happen to you too. You 0:36:22.239 --> 0:36:24.319 could be the best version of yourself and feel ten 0:36:24.400 --> 0:36:26.279 years younger. And so that was kind of the spin 0:36:26.320 --> 0:36:28.839 they were putting on the ball in the aftermath of the. 0:36:28.800 --> 0:36:32.640 Games, which I thought was, you know, not the worst idea. 0:36:32.719 --> 0:36:35.919 But for me, the thing that was like very weird 0:36:35.960 --> 0:36:38.880 about the Games is if you are targeting a demo 0:36:39.160 --> 0:36:42.360 that is, like people who are like thirty five forty 0:36:42.520 --> 0:36:44.960 middle aged, and you're like trying to help them feel younger. 0:36:45.440 --> 0:36:48.520 Inviting a bunch of eighteen year old TikTokers who've never 0:36:48.560 --> 0:36:50.720 felt though we're back pain in their life just feels 0:36:50.760 --> 0:36:53.960 like the most twisted marketing stretch possible. 0:36:54.160 --> 0:36:56.640 So that was the part I couldn't quite reconcile. 0:36:56.760 --> 0:37:00.360 Yeah, so that's the promise, is that you know, you 0:37:00.480 --> 0:37:05.640 two could set a pr at thirty five forty. What 0:37:05.800 --> 0:37:09.600 drugs do they actually sell to people? So there's like 0:37:09.680 --> 0:37:13.920 this range, right, It's there's peptides, there's testosterone. There's what 0:37:14.040 --> 0:37:16.839 all is being sold? And what do they do? 0:37:17.320 --> 0:37:20.439 Well, it's changing constantly because the Trump because the Trump 0:37:20.480 --> 0:37:23.360 administration is constantly deregulating a lot of the stuff that 0:37:23.400 --> 0:37:25.440 they want to sell, like the peptide stuff. 0:37:25.640 --> 0:37:28.200 Interesting, I can tell you right now. 0:37:28.239 --> 0:37:30.400 For sure, they sell samrellan, which is a peptide that 0:37:30.400 --> 0:37:33.360 is supposed to boost your natural production of growth hormone. 0:37:33.520 --> 0:37:37.800 They sell testosterone, they sell they sell nady plus. 0:37:38.160 --> 0:37:39.879 What does that do? Yeah? 0:37:39.880 --> 0:37:43.120 Anydy plus is this sort of coenzyme that helps with 0:37:43.480 --> 0:37:46.000 sort of like cellular repair and helps a lot with 0:37:46.040 --> 0:37:49.000 the energy, brain fog, that sort of thing. I've I've 0:37:49.040 --> 0:37:50.800 dabbled in it and take it once in a while 0:37:51.400 --> 0:37:54.040 before I got into like enhanced world, they sell a 0:37:54.040 --> 0:37:59.480 bunch of like glp ones creams, and then like they 0:37:59.480 --> 0:38:02.960 have like theirs your standard issue like creatine and like 0:38:03.000 --> 0:38:06.799 pre workout sort of stuff that are grossly overpriced and 0:38:07.200 --> 0:38:09.759 actually are a little too sweet for my liking after 0:38:10.480 --> 0:38:11.240 tasting them. 0:38:11.719 --> 0:38:13.960 It would appear that they've added Cialis to Dalla phil 0:38:14.080 --> 0:38:16.239 since I last looked up maybe a week or two ago, 0:38:17.120 --> 0:38:20.200 which I believe some people are saying is like you 0:38:20.239 --> 0:38:22.240 can use as like a like a like a mental 0:38:22.239 --> 0:38:25.399 clarity booster. Now too, I've heard that on the kind 0:38:25.400 --> 0:38:27.440 of wellness circuits. So they have they have cialis, they 0:38:27.440 --> 0:38:33.520 have generic salis, they have they have truz eppetide, they 0:38:33.560 --> 0:38:39.160 have g hkcu, the copper peptide creating. I mean, they 0:38:39.200 --> 0:38:41.040 kind of got they kind of got everything in this kind. 0:38:40.920 --> 0:38:43.080 Of this whole gambit of of drugs. 0:38:43.160 --> 0:38:46.480 And then how are they tracking the health effects of 0:38:46.520 --> 0:38:49.120 these because part of it is they're doing these sort 0:38:49.160 --> 0:38:52.480 of study on athlete help health to see do these 0:38:52.520 --> 0:38:54.799 things help or harm in the long run? What does 0:38:54.840 --> 0:38:57.120 that actually look like? And have they have they published 0:38:57.160 --> 0:38:58.080 any results yet? 0:38:58.440 --> 0:39:02.360 No results They've they've throughout the whole process of reporting this. 0:39:02.440 --> 0:39:03.400 They were very. 0:39:04.800 --> 0:39:07.680 At first they kind of promised us, especially Chris, that 0:39:07.680 --> 0:39:10.160 they would have access to whatever information we wanted about 0:39:10.160 --> 0:39:13.279 what they were taking. And then as when it kind 0:39:13.320 --> 0:39:14.680 of push came to shove and we were like, hey, 0:39:14.680 --> 0:39:16.239 we're gonna go to Abu Dhabi and like we want 0:39:16.239 --> 0:39:18.480 to we want to be in the room when you 0:39:18.520 --> 0:39:21.319 give them the needle. They're like, no, actually, we can't 0:39:21.320 --> 0:39:25.160 tell you because of privacy laws in the UAE, and 0:39:25.200 --> 0:39:27.800 so we don't know exactly what any given athlete was taking. 0:39:27.960 --> 0:39:33.920 They have since published some data on what percentage of 0:39:33.920 --> 0:39:36.160 different substances, like different athletes took, Like it was like 0:39:36.200 --> 0:39:38.720 something like seventy percent use of soostro and like forty 0:39:38.719 --> 0:39:43.240 percent use EPO, just kind of generic like this percentage 0:39:43.239 --> 0:39:46.319 of our athletes use these drugs, but they have not 0:39:46.480 --> 0:39:52.319 made the exact results public yet. And we talked to 0:39:52.360 --> 0:39:57.200 a bunch of doctors about we're just to basically gut 0:39:57.280 --> 0:39:59.040 check what this study was. And there's I mean, there's 0:39:59.040 --> 0:40:00.960 a few there's a few big problems. One is that 0:40:01.000 --> 0:40:02.719 like you really don't have any control. You have three 0:40:02.760 --> 0:40:05.120 athletes who are not taking drugs and you're not controlling 0:40:05.120 --> 0:40:07.200 anything else in their life, so that already kind of 0:40:07.200 --> 0:40:11.839 compromises the study. And then two like there is no 0:40:12.640 --> 0:40:15.359 they're not drug They were very candid that they were 0:40:15.360 --> 0:40:19.440 not drug testing athletes and lead up to the games 0:40:19.560 --> 0:40:21.839 they were only going to test their sort of organ 0:40:21.920 --> 0:40:25.680 health and to make sure that they were healthy to compete. 0:40:25.960 --> 0:40:27.680 Some of these substances can in larger heart they can 0:40:27.680 --> 0:40:34.240 cause liver damage, et cetera, et cetera. And kind of 0:40:34.280 --> 0:40:37.160 the hole in that logic that we we kept coming 0:40:37.200 --> 0:40:42.040 across was there's a huge financial incentive here, and there's 0:40:42.200 --> 0:40:44.200 you're not You've already said you're not drug testing any 0:40:44.200 --> 0:40:47.600 of these athletes, So what's stopping anybody here from taking 0:40:47.640 --> 0:40:50.080 more of this drug? Given that they could win a 0:40:50.080 --> 0:40:53.719 million dollars you know from on the side, getting some 0:40:54.400 --> 0:40:57.080 testotics around on the you know, there's nothing stopping them. 0:40:57.239 --> 0:41:02.160 So the on top of that, there's questions of you know, independence, 0:41:02.200 --> 0:41:06.680 like how independent could the study actually be? The data 0:41:06.719 --> 0:41:10.359 I think is compelling, but dubious, Like I think there 0:41:10.400 --> 0:41:13.080 isn't a ton of research out there because we have 0:41:13.160 --> 0:41:19.040 been so I think punitive in our approach to drug 0:41:19.080 --> 0:41:21.400 research for a long time, not not you know, especially 0:41:21.400 --> 0:41:23.759 with street drugs, but which steroids have been treated as 0:41:23.760 --> 0:41:25.440 a street drug for a long time. It's very hard 0:41:25.440 --> 0:41:28.239 to research the effects of them. We didn't really have 0:41:28.600 --> 0:41:30.040 for some many of these drugs, we still don't have 0:41:30.040 --> 0:41:32.440 a really good idea of what they do. Most of 0:41:32.440 --> 0:41:34.480 it is like broscience, and then on top of that 0:41:34.600 --> 0:41:37.000 bro science being just kind of anecdotal. 0:41:36.520 --> 0:41:38.040 Like I like this, do you like that, how do 0:41:38.080 --> 0:41:39.320 you use it? Blah blah blah. 0:41:39.360 --> 0:41:42.000 You know, they had a couple of different categories of drugs. 0:41:42.040 --> 0:41:44.920 It was, you know, they had you know, they had 0:41:44.960 --> 0:41:48.040 the testosterones, they had stimulants that they were able to 0:41:48.080 --> 0:41:52.840 take for the women, they had hormone regulators like you know, 0:41:53.800 --> 0:41:56.200 and then what was the last category stem There. 0:41:56.080 --> 0:41:58.520 Was one more metabolog modulators. 0:41:58.560 --> 0:41:59.880 Metablog modulators, yes. 0:41:59.800 --> 0:42:03.720 Yes, uldonium drugs that make your salves more energy efficient. 0:42:04.400 --> 0:42:07.440 Often they're used for like diabetes and libertines and stuff. 0:42:07.520 --> 0:42:09.160 Yeah, And what was interesting is, you know, we talked 0:42:09.160 --> 0:42:12.680 to this guy, Guido Plis. He's this cardiologist from the 0:42:12.920 --> 0:42:16.080 UK who heads up there sort of like scare quotes 0:42:16.120 --> 0:42:20.160 Independent Medical Commission, and he said that peptides were actually 0:42:20.200 --> 0:42:21.960 like something that the athletes were going to be able 0:42:22.040 --> 0:42:24.680 to take. In the lead up to it, like we 0:42:24.960 --> 0:42:27.160 talked to a couple of them who were excited about 0:42:27.200 --> 0:42:30.520 potentially taking you know, like BPC one five seven or 0:42:30.560 --> 0:42:33.319 you know, the Wolverine stack for healing and all of that, 0:42:34.080 --> 0:42:37.080 and he was like, you know, that stuff is a 0:42:37.080 --> 0:42:39.560 little too unregulated even for us, so we don't kind 0:42:39.600 --> 0:42:41.080 of want to we don't want to dive into that, 0:42:41.200 --> 0:42:45.080 which to me felt weird because it's like, oh, you 0:42:45.120 --> 0:42:47.360 guys are leaving a lot of money on the table 0:42:47.560 --> 0:42:51.200 by doing this, But at the same time, it's like 0:42:51.600 --> 0:42:57.360 you're sort of I don't know, ability to regulate or 0:42:57.400 --> 0:43:00.719 not regulate, but to sort of like determine what the 0:43:00.760 --> 0:43:04.200 athletes can and can take. It's just as squishy as say, wata, 0:43:04.480 --> 0:43:08.160 you know, Like it was they kind of didn't have 0:43:08.239 --> 0:43:12.720 their own grounding. 0:43:13.520 --> 0:43:15.279 What I was gonna say earlier was on top of 0:43:16.520 --> 0:43:19.200 how hard these drugs have been able to research, the 0:43:19.239 --> 0:43:22.719 other argument that they make, which has some merit I 0:43:22.719 --> 0:43:25.080 think to be fair, is that like most of what 0:43:25.120 --> 0:43:30.640 we understand of the symptoms of steroid abuse comes from 0:43:31.080 --> 0:43:34.080 people who are abusing extreme amounts of them in an 0:43:34.160 --> 0:43:36.719 unregulated manner off label for long periods of time. I 0:43:36.880 --> 0:43:41.200 bodybuilders basically. And their argument is, although we can't know 0:43:41.280 --> 0:43:43.000 because they don't give us access to what they're doing, 0:43:43.440 --> 0:43:45.400 is that they're giving these athletes very small doses of 0:43:45.400 --> 0:43:48.600 these drugs relatively speaking, for much shorter periods of time. 0:43:48.640 --> 0:43:50.200 I think in total they did for about eight weeks, 0:43:50.239 --> 0:43:51.160 maybe slightly longer. 0:43:51.360 --> 0:43:53.280 Okay, Yeah, And what's funny. 0:43:53.440 --> 0:43:56.520 What's interesting about that too, is like, you know the powerlifters, 0:43:56.560 --> 0:43:58.040 it's like, oh, they were the ones who were the 0:43:58.040 --> 0:44:01.080 furthest away from breaking world records in some ways, was 0:44:01.080 --> 0:44:04.720 there more conservative dosing that enhancement was providing them different 0:44:04.760 --> 0:44:06.720 from what was available in other. 0:44:06.560 --> 0:44:11.440 Contexts, which I think was unsurprising, and just because weightlifting 0:44:11.440 --> 0:44:13.440 has always always been I think the most drugged out 0:44:13.480 --> 0:44:15.480 of the Olympic sports totally. 0:44:15.520 --> 0:44:19.320 Like in powerlifting, you have federations that are clean in theory, 0:44:19.360 --> 0:44:21.360 and then you have ones where it's like this is 0:44:21.400 --> 0:44:23.880 a non clean federation, like just juice yourself to I mean, 0:44:23.920 --> 0:44:26.560 there's already kind of this experiment happening in the powerlifting world. 0:44:26.719 --> 0:44:28.520 One thing I would point out about the study though, 0:44:29.200 --> 0:44:32.279 is if if you have people taking a bunch of 0:44:32.280 --> 0:44:36.160 different substances, how the hell do you figure out what 0:44:36.280 --> 0:44:39.640 is helping and what is hurting an athletes' health? Like 0:44:39.640 --> 0:44:41.680 there's just way too much fucking noise. 0:44:42.040 --> 0:44:43.360 It's a strange cocktail. 0:44:44.440 --> 0:44:48.160 And also like, how do you extrapolate the effects of 0:44:49.120 --> 0:44:52.440 t stosterone from Ben and proud Olympic silver medalists to 0:44:53.320 --> 0:44:56.440 sixty year old ethel who wants to like there is 0:44:56.480 --> 0:44:59.759 an example that they're like, we want Olympic athletes to 0:44:59.760 --> 0:45:00.440 have act to it. 0:45:00.480 --> 0:45:01.960 And the sixty year old woman who wants to tend 0:45:02.000 --> 0:45:02.840 her garden longer? 0:45:03.360 --> 0:45:07.239 How do you extrapolate the results from an Olympic silver 0:45:07.280 --> 0:45:09.839 medalist to a sixty year old woman who just wants 0:45:09.880 --> 0:45:11.600 to take care of her ponies? 0:45:11.640 --> 0:45:13.560 You know, Like yeah, and I think we mentioned it 0:45:13.600 --> 0:45:16.120 earlier too, that it's like, you know, the the menu 0:45:16.160 --> 0:45:18.720 of drugs that are presented to each athlete is totally 0:45:18.760 --> 0:45:22.240 different for each one of them. Like it's totally bespoke, 0:45:22.400 --> 0:45:26.279 like catered to sort of your biometrics, your test, and 0:45:26.280 --> 0:45:29.000 it's recommended to you by your doctor. You decide what 0:45:29.040 --> 0:45:31.480 you actually do and don't want to take. And so 0:45:31.719 --> 0:45:34.920 just like the variants there alone between the athletes is 0:45:35.000 --> 0:45:38.480 like it's it's like just like such a wide spectrum 0:45:38.520 --> 0:45:39.520 that how do you control for that? 0:45:40.239 --> 0:45:40.399 Right? 0:45:40.600 --> 0:45:42.960 So you what I thought was interesting, Chris is that 0:45:43.040 --> 0:45:48.480 you had you would take an NAD mm hmm. What 0:45:48.680 --> 0:45:51.560 prompted you to do that and what was that like? 0:45:52.320 --> 0:45:55.000 Yeah, So one of the funny things that happened in 0:45:55.200 --> 0:45:57.880 like Sam and I like getting put together for this 0:45:57.960 --> 0:46:01.040 story is we both do muy Thai and both compete, 0:46:01.640 --> 0:46:03.719 you know, so you know, obviously when we were in 0:46:03.760 --> 0:46:05.279 Vegas for like let's hit up a muay Thai gym, 0:46:05.360 --> 0:46:06.680 let's like get some work in, you know. 0:46:07.760 --> 0:46:09.799 But you know, I'm forty one. 0:46:10.080 --> 0:46:11.879 I'm like it's sort of like the tail end of 0:46:12.080 --> 0:46:14.800 like my you know, ability to compete at this point. 0:46:14.840 --> 0:46:17.160 I also have a four year old son, and so 0:46:17.680 --> 0:46:20.399 my sleep is trash, Like you know, I don't get 0:46:20.520 --> 0:46:24.239 very much recovery. And a homegirl of mine was like, oh, 0:46:24.320 --> 0:46:26.440 I'm like she was in her mid forties and she 0:46:26.520 --> 0:46:29.200 was like, I started taking NAD and it really really 0:46:29.200 --> 0:46:31.680 helped me with like my daily brain fog and just 0:46:31.719 --> 0:46:35.160 my general ability to function and as a writer and 0:46:35.200 --> 0:46:38.440 sort of someone who partakes in like combat sports. I 0:46:38.520 --> 0:46:41.200 was like, oh, the sort of mental acuity that comes 0:46:41.280 --> 0:46:43.719 with NAD plus is something that was really appealing to me. 0:46:44.440 --> 0:46:46.680 And I also wanted to understand what it's like to 0:46:47.280 --> 0:46:50.000 jab a needle into your belly so I could sympathize 0:46:50.040 --> 0:46:52.319 with these athletes a little bit more. And that was 0:46:52.400 --> 0:46:54.960 kind of like what kicks started the experiment for me? 0:46:56.320 --> 0:47:00.319 What was it like? Did it improve things? Did it work? Yeah? 0:47:00.360 --> 0:47:03.440 You know what we I Sam actually tried it too 0:47:04.239 --> 0:47:06.239 when I when I had an extra dosing that was 0:47:06.280 --> 0:47:10.480 sent to me. For me, it's I think it's awesome. 0:47:10.800 --> 0:47:13.160 Like I feel like whenever I do need my brain 0:47:13.200 --> 0:47:15.560 fog lifted or I need a little bit more energy, 0:47:16.640 --> 0:47:18.160 it helps tremendously. 0:47:18.360 --> 0:47:19.680 I'm also a lot older than. 0:47:19.520 --> 0:47:23.520 Sam, so this stuff like my you know, he has 0:47:23.800 --> 0:47:26.759 the wrestling background in the lifetime of those injuries compounded 0:47:26.800 --> 0:47:27.319 onto him. 0:47:27.320 --> 0:47:28.920 But you know I got I got. 0:47:28.760 --> 0:47:32.120 Like ten years at least, so you know, maybe maybe 0:47:32.760 --> 0:47:34.759 the age is more of a factor for me. 0:47:35.360 --> 0:47:38.759 Yeah, I would specify, you know our preface that you know, 0:47:38.800 --> 0:47:41.799 I am not forty, I'm thirty years old, maybe in. 0:47:41.719 --> 0:47:43.800 Ten year old, but be like, yeah, give me everything. 0:47:44.239 --> 0:47:44.600 I don't know. 0:47:44.680 --> 0:47:47.400 Yeah, but I one thing I liked about working with 0:47:47.440 --> 0:47:49.319 Crystal This was which was it was a good gut check. 0:47:49.400 --> 0:47:53.120 Because I am my mother's a doctor. I grew up 0:47:53.120 --> 0:47:55.560 in a house of with a medical professional. So I 0:47:55.600 --> 0:47:59.279 am deeply suspicious of anything that comes out of the 0:47:59.320 --> 0:48:00.000 wall in this industry. 0:48:01.000 --> 0:48:02.879 Most of it's on regulated kind of et cetera, et cetera, 0:48:02.880 --> 0:48:03.279 et cetera. 0:48:04.040 --> 0:48:10.120 Also, I just have this kind of like predisposed belief 0:48:10.200 --> 0:48:14.600 from my experience competing that like, I've seen what people 0:48:14.600 --> 0:48:18.480 can do if they just train really hard and sleep 0:48:18.520 --> 0:48:21.279 a lot and eat really well, and that's kind of 0:48:21.320 --> 0:48:22.200 all that they do. 0:48:22.080 --> 0:48:25.160 And that's their focus. 0:48:25.560 --> 0:48:29.080 I'm like, maybe we as a society should try to 0:48:29.120 --> 0:48:31.239 sleep a lot more and work out. If you want 0:48:31.280 --> 0:48:36.160 to run faster, lift more, work out really consistently for many. 0:48:35.920 --> 0:48:40.520 Hours a day, and sleep well and eat better. 0:48:40.560 --> 0:48:44.840 Before we start talking about injecting exogynous substances and hormones 0:48:45.360 --> 0:48:47.160 into our body, I was like, I feel like we're 0:48:48.080 --> 0:48:51.479 starting at the wrong end here often because there's because 0:48:51.480 --> 0:48:55.000 there's something to sell. So I came into it, I 0:48:55.000 --> 0:48:57.239 think pretty suspicious. I took a pretty small dose of 0:48:57.280 --> 0:49:00.160 the nity I didn't really feel much. I found the 0:49:00.160 --> 0:49:02.239 feeling of it being in my stomach to be so 0:49:02.520 --> 0:49:07.200 off putting. Uh, it's like warm, and there's it feels 0:49:07.200 --> 0:49:09.799 like there's like a little it felt like one of 0:49:09.800 --> 0:49:11.560 those like little like weights that you see the like 0:49:11.760 --> 0:49:14.080 in like the old ladies and the jaggeritized classes, the 0:49:14.120 --> 0:49:15.239 like little bullet weights they hold. 0:49:15.239 --> 0:49:16.960 I felt like someone like slipped that under my skin 0:49:17.000 --> 0:49:17.959 and it was just sitting there. 0:49:20.160 --> 0:49:22.319 But again, you know, I don't know how I'll feel 0:49:22.360 --> 0:49:25.640 when I'm forty. You know, it's easy for me, like 0:49:25.680 --> 0:49:28.040 I can still go out on the weekends and wake up, and. 0:49:28.880 --> 0:49:29.399 I went out. 0:49:29.680 --> 0:49:31.600 I was out late, real late a couple of nights ago, 0:49:31.640 --> 0:49:35.719 watching the game two of the Knicks and partied until 0:49:35.719 --> 0:49:37.239 like two in the morning, and then I woke up. 0:49:37.360 --> 0:49:38.800 I was like, I got to get rid of this hangover. 0:49:38.840 --> 0:49:40.400 And my solution was to run five miles. 0:49:40.920 --> 0:49:43.719 So yeah, yeah, that's about I was. 0:49:43.760 --> 0:49:45.759 I was going to say, you know that it's I 0:49:45.800 --> 0:49:47.799 know sleep is important, but there's a Knicks game that 0:49:47.880 --> 0:49:51.480 starts at eight thirty. 0:49:50.960 --> 0:49:52.440 And I don't have a kid, so it's like and 0:49:52.600 --> 0:49:54.360 it's easier for me to say, like, maybe you should 0:49:54.360 --> 0:49:56.200 work out four hours a day before you start putting 0:49:56.200 --> 0:49:57.000 stuff in your body. 0:49:57.239 --> 0:49:58.759 We're going to take a break and we're going to 0:49:58.800 --> 0:50:01.480 get into a little bit of philosop of aging and 0:50:01.520 --> 0:50:04.320 why we as a culture are so obsessed with slowing 0:50:04.320 --> 0:50:14.279 down and stopping aging. I wonder, and Chris will be 0:50:14.280 --> 0:50:15.680 interesting to get your perspective on this. 0:50:17.080 --> 0:50:17.560 Part of me. 0:50:17.560 --> 0:50:23.040 Wonders, is having brain fog, waking up kind of tired? 0:50:24.040 --> 0:50:27.680 Is that just part of aging? And is there almost 0:50:27.680 --> 0:50:31.160 a reward in that? It's like it's a fundamental part 0:50:31.280 --> 0:50:33.759 of the process of being human. So if I think 0:50:33.760 --> 0:50:36.160 about myself from a writing perspective, it's like some mornings 0:50:36.360 --> 0:50:38.279 I wake up, I'm like, ah, the sentences aren't coming out, 0:50:38.280 --> 0:50:40.040 but I put the work in and then I get 0:50:40.040 --> 0:50:42.440 a couple good ones and I'm like, that was awesome. 0:50:42.680 --> 0:50:44.759 And I did that sort of by myself. Do we 0:50:44.840 --> 0:50:49.640 lose something when we buy a product that makes these 0:50:49.760 --> 0:50:52.320 important things about being a human easier? 0:50:53.040 --> 0:50:54.560 That's a good question, you know. 0:50:55.000 --> 0:50:57.880 To my mind, it's sort of indistinguishable from you know, 0:50:58.480 --> 0:51:01.439 having two shots of express morning. In some ways, it's 0:51:01.440 --> 0:51:03.680 like if it helps you do your job a little 0:51:03.680 --> 0:51:06.319 bit better, I'm like, yeah, dude, go for it. 0:51:06.360 --> 0:51:06.960 That's fine. 0:51:07.040 --> 0:51:10.880 Like we're sort of like thrust into this system where 0:51:11.080 --> 0:51:13.719 getting sleep is pretty much impossible, and like if you 0:51:13.840 --> 0:51:16.560 do are are in a situation where you can get 0:51:16.600 --> 0:51:18.719 a lot of sleep, it's kind of like that's like 0:51:18.760 --> 0:51:21.640 the new luxury in some ways. Like if you're Lebron 0:51:21.719 --> 0:51:24.160 getting twelve twelve hours of sleep at night, it's like, 0:51:24.239 --> 0:51:26.360 of course you're going to have an advantage over everyone else, 0:51:26.440 --> 0:51:30.439 but none of us. If we're working our jobs, trying 0:51:30.440 --> 0:51:33.720 to get in our workouts, trying to like do any extracurriculars, 0:51:33.880 --> 0:51:35.920 it's like, yeah, sleep is always the first thing to go, 0:51:36.239 --> 0:51:38.399 and so you know, whatever you can do to sort 0:51:38.440 --> 0:51:40.879 of mitigate that, I'm personally kind of. 0:51:40.800 --> 0:51:41.319 All for it. 0:51:41.600 --> 0:51:44.279 Yeah, Sam, what was your take on that, giving your 0:51:44.320 --> 0:51:46.799 background as an athlete and you had to go through 0:51:46.840 --> 0:51:50.120 all these you know, PD checks and everything, and where 0:51:50.120 --> 0:51:52.640 do you draw the line? Because I think Chris's yeah, 0:51:52.640 --> 0:51:55.319 point is great. That's like, well, if I took four 0:51:55.320 --> 0:51:57.960 shots of espresso on the morning, that gives me some 0:51:58.040 --> 0:52:00.279 sort of boost, And so like how do we how 0:52:00.280 --> 0:52:03.279 do we even determine these lines between what's a quote 0:52:03.360 --> 0:52:06.680 unquote banned substance versus Oh that's good, that's totally fine. 0:52:07.600 --> 0:52:08.799 It's a really hard question to answer. 0:52:08.840 --> 0:52:11.480 It's just kind of thinking out loud, Like I, especially 0:52:11.520 --> 0:52:13.840 as I have the experience of getting older to me 0:52:14.000 --> 0:52:17.120 and I've would preface that I've In ten years, I 0:52:17.200 --> 0:52:19.319 might be like, screw everything that I said when I 0:52:19.360 --> 0:52:19.720 was thirty. 0:52:19.800 --> 0:52:22.720 I'm like, Chris, give me the shot. But totally totally possible. 0:52:22.719 --> 0:52:23.759 But right now. 0:52:26.080 --> 0:52:28.840 I would never preasist to anybody because it's not my body. 0:52:28.840 --> 0:52:32.160 And I really do believe that, like that's the autonomy 0:52:32.200 --> 0:52:35.120 is important, but I do think that you lose something 0:52:35.360 --> 0:52:39.359 of your The process of aging, I think is such 0:52:39.400 --> 0:52:42.160 an important part of our of our humanity. I think 0:52:42.800 --> 0:52:48.440 feeling what enhanced is selling is I think what so 0:52:48.560 --> 0:52:52.800 many in the sort of tech biopharmer space are selling, 0:52:52.800 --> 0:52:57.560 which is like, wherever possible, removing the friction of your lives. 0:52:57.560 --> 0:52:58.719 And I think that the friction. 0:52:58.520 --> 0:53:01.600 Of our lives is where we grow, it's where we 0:53:01.920 --> 0:53:05.640 develop as people, it's where we if you're a father, 0:53:05.680 --> 0:53:09.120 it's where I think that we imbue valuable life lessons 0:53:09.440 --> 0:53:15.160 upon our children. And I don't want to do things 0:53:15.160 --> 0:53:18.080 that make me feel good all the time personally, Like 0:53:18.160 --> 0:53:22.040 it's I like, I intellectually I enjoy writing. 0:53:22.480 --> 0:53:24.680 The process of writing I find to be really unpleasant. 0:53:24.960 --> 0:53:25.520 It sucks. 0:53:25.800 --> 0:53:28.719 Yeah, I do it because I don't like it, and 0:53:28.800 --> 0:53:30.279 it makes me anxious and it makes me feel kind 0:53:30.280 --> 0:53:32.040 of insecure about how smart I am, and it makes 0:53:32.040 --> 0:53:33.720 me like, you know, like all these kinds of things 0:53:33.880 --> 0:53:36.000 in the first similar way that like combat sports did. 0:53:36.000 --> 0:53:38.480 They're very primal and personal, and if you lose, it's 0:53:38.480 --> 0:53:40.040 not like in football or soccer where we have a 0:53:40.040 --> 0:53:41.840 team to blame. It's like you got beat up in 0:53:41.880 --> 0:53:45.200 this very visceral, personal way. That's embarrassing and that's hard, 0:53:45.280 --> 0:53:47.520 and it gives you insecurity and it gives. 0:53:47.280 --> 0:53:54.520 You anxiety, and I worry. I guess I worry. 0:53:54.640 --> 0:53:56.600 NAD is one thing, but I just worry about the 0:53:56.640 --> 0:54:00.600 logic where that logic ends. And I like it doesn't 0:54:00.680 --> 0:54:02.719 end like this with everybody, but it's you can see 0:54:02.719 --> 0:54:06.520 how you get from NAD to let me hammer my 0:54:06.560 --> 0:54:10.200 face to make my bones grow sharper like Clinticular, you know, 0:54:10.360 --> 0:54:13.359 like you can see how that kind of rabbit hole 0:54:13.960 --> 0:54:16.040 can happen. And most people are gonna be like Chris 0:54:16.040 --> 0:54:18.160 and be reasonable about it, but there's you know, there's 0:54:18.160 --> 0:54:23.520 always the outliers that are gonna, you know, take things 0:54:23.560 --> 0:54:25.680 to extremes. And I think because the Internet, like taking 0:54:25.680 --> 0:54:28.480 things to extreme is rewarded because of the culture of 0:54:28.480 --> 0:54:29.640 the Internet, you know. 0:54:30.960 --> 0:54:32.440 So I just kind of worry where this goes. 0:54:32.520 --> 0:54:34.760 And for me, like I've found a lot of enjoyment 0:54:34.840 --> 0:54:37.480 in the aging of my body, in the way that 0:54:37.520 --> 0:54:41.120 I practice combat sports, like the way that I when 0:54:41.160 --> 0:54:46.280 I wrestle now, I. 0:54:44.400 --> 0:54:46.400 I'm not as quick as I once was. It my 0:54:46.480 --> 0:54:47.040 knees hurt. 0:54:47.080 --> 0:54:48.560 It's hard for me to take shots the way that 0:54:48.600 --> 0:54:49.600 I used to, Like I don't want to do a 0:54:49.600 --> 0:54:51.240 full penetration step where I hit my knees. 0:54:51.280 --> 0:54:53.400 I take like fat man old man shots and grab 0:54:53.400 --> 0:54:54.080 people's legs. 0:54:55.000 --> 0:54:57.640 But also like I wrestle college guys in high school 0:54:57.680 --> 0:55:00.560 guys now, and I'm like, I can see five moves 0:55:00.560 --> 0:55:00.960 ahead of you. 0:55:01.000 --> 0:55:04.000 I know what you're doing. Like I've studied the scrolls too, 0:55:04.080 --> 0:55:07.239 young man, you know, and there's fun in that too, 0:55:09.280 --> 0:55:10.200 And I worry. 0:55:09.960 --> 0:55:13.000 About losing that the more the more that this culture 0:55:13.080 --> 0:55:14.200 kind of propagates, I really do. 0:55:14.840 --> 0:55:16.600 It feels like the enhanced games are kind of this 0:55:16.680 --> 0:55:21.360 collision between two forces that you just mentioned, the removal 0:55:21.360 --> 0:55:26.600 of friction from life, but also kind of the machine 0:55:26.880 --> 0:55:32.520 of marketing, big money trying to sell us something like 0:55:32.880 --> 0:55:37.279 this is all kind of one big advertisement for the 0:55:37.320 --> 0:55:40.120 removal of friction. It's just this collision of those two 0:55:40.440 --> 0:55:42.280 forces in modern life. 0:55:42.880 --> 0:55:46.200 Yeah, I feel like that's that's the read. It's funny 0:55:46.239 --> 0:55:49.239 because it like greases the skids in some ways to 0:55:49.480 --> 0:55:53.000 like introduce weirder frictions into your life. It's like, I'm 0:55:53.040 --> 0:55:54.520 going to take the easy way out, but now I'm 0:55:54.520 --> 0:55:56.160 going to go spend three hours in the gym, you 0:55:56.160 --> 0:55:56.640 know what I mean? 0:55:57.160 --> 0:55:57.640 There you go. 0:55:57.960 --> 0:55:58.640 That's a good point. 0:55:58.920 --> 0:55:59.960 Yeah, it is a good point. 0:56:00.200 --> 0:56:00.439 Yeah. 0:56:00.520 --> 0:56:02.400 I mean I think I've been thinking about this a 0:56:02.400 --> 0:56:05.680 lot lately, just as I've gotten into I've been getting 0:56:05.680 --> 0:56:06.240 into running. 0:56:06.840 --> 0:56:08.840 And I'm not like, I'm six one, two sixty. 0:56:08.840 --> 0:56:13.919 I'm not naturally predisposed to being like it's no I'm 0:56:13.920 --> 0:56:16.600 getting I'm down, I'm under. I'm just barely under a 0:56:16.600 --> 0:56:18.480 twenty preivo at five K. I'm working my way up 0:56:19.520 --> 0:56:23.440 at that build. I'll take it. But now I get 0:56:23.520 --> 0:56:27.680 running culture stuff peppered at me on my like toort 0:56:27.719 --> 0:56:30.279 form video feeds like TikTok and Instagram, and it is 0:56:30.320 --> 0:56:32.600 like all sports are consumerists, but running seems to be 0:56:33.160 --> 0:56:37.120 an extremely consumeris sort of sub athletic culture. It's like 0:56:37.160 --> 0:56:38.920 you can buy your thirty dollars gels, and you can 0:56:38.960 --> 0:56:41.120 buy your like, you know, your fancy. 0:56:40.800 --> 0:56:44.040 Sunglasses and your five hundred dollars shoes and this and that. 0:56:44.920 --> 0:56:46.400 And I see people out running in Brooklyn all the 0:56:46.440 --> 0:56:50.919 time and they're wearing like all these crazy drive fit 0:56:51.280 --> 0:56:55.080 gear and Oakley's and super expensive shoes and I'm running 0:56:55.120 --> 0:56:57.720 on like a gigantic old Wyoming shirt and like crappy 0:56:57.760 --> 0:57:03.400 trail shoes, and I don't feel better than Actually, I 0:57:03.400 --> 0:57:05.200 definitely don't feel better than them, because like I went 0:57:05.200 --> 0:57:06.920 out and bought an actual period like two hundred dollars 0:57:06.960 --> 0:57:09.120 running shoes like recently, and I was like, oh, this 0:57:09.200 --> 0:57:12.359 is incredible. Like there's utility to these I understand that, 0:57:12.440 --> 0:57:14.720 but it's it's like been such a good case study 0:57:14.760 --> 0:57:18.040 for me and how far consumers them can kind of 0:57:18.080 --> 0:57:20.960 take these things, you know, And it's it's not it's 0:57:20.960 --> 0:57:24.760 not necessary all the time. It is, I think, to me, 0:57:24.880 --> 0:57:29.200 in somebody's counter to what athletics is and yeah, I 0:57:29.200 --> 0:57:29.840 struggle with it. 0:57:30.120 --> 0:57:30.840 Yeah, well, you. 0:57:30.760 --> 0:57:34.800 Know, the two hundred and fifty dollars gentle Glide racing 0:57:34.840 --> 0:57:37.920 shoes are kind of the testosterone for your feet, the 0:57:37.920 --> 0:57:39.360 super suit of the feet totally. 0:57:39.440 --> 0:57:41.320 Yeah. Yeah. 0:57:41.360 --> 0:57:46.280 We had Brady Homer, who's a two like twenty five marathon. 0:57:45.880 --> 0:57:47.800 Or Jesus Psycho. 0:57:47.680 --> 0:57:49.680 And he said yeah, but he did say that the 0:57:49.720 --> 0:57:54.560 super shoes probably give him a six percent decrease in 0:57:54.600 --> 0:57:56.840 his time. So we're talking going from like two thirty 0:57:56.880 --> 0:57:59.600 down to two twenty five or something like that. Wow, 0:58:00.920 --> 0:58:03.200 that's and it's just in the shoes. So it's really interesting. 0:58:03.280 --> 0:58:06.360 So where do you think the Enhanced Games go from here? 0:58:07.040 --> 0:58:09.600 Shortly after the Games, you know, they they kind of 0:58:09.640 --> 0:58:14.040 doubled down the stakes. They were like, oh, usining if 0:58:14.400 --> 0:58:17.560 someone could beat Hussein bolt sold record, We're going to 0:58:17.600 --> 0:58:18.800 not do a million dollar prize. 0:58:18.800 --> 0:58:20.760 It's gonna be a ten million dollar prize now. 0:58:21.400 --> 0:58:24.120 So in some ways I kind of feel like, you know, 0:58:25.520 --> 0:58:28.720 this sort of first iteration of the Games was designed 0:58:28.720 --> 0:58:32.240 to attract other athletes who are probably a higher caliber, 0:58:32.320 --> 0:58:34.160 who you know, have a little bit more of a 0:58:34.200 --> 0:58:36.880 reputation to be like, yeah, I could win that easy 0:58:36.920 --> 0:58:39.120 money I could win two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, 0:58:39.160 --> 0:58:41.840 like beating some scrubs, And I thought what was really 0:58:41.840 --> 0:58:45.360 telling about it is afterwards Ryan Lockdey, you know, he 0:58:45.440 --> 0:58:47.960 was kind of like, Oh, I kind of wish I competed, 0:58:48.240 --> 0:58:50.400 Like that sounds like something I would do. And so 0:58:50.440 --> 0:58:52.720 it's like, oh, if you're going to get people who 0:58:52.720 --> 0:58:57.080 are on that level like sort of you know, voicing 0:58:57.120 --> 0:58:59.920 interest and perhaps even doing it, like, I think that's 0:59:00.160 --> 0:59:02.080 to be a lot more interesting and kind of fun 0:59:02.080 --> 0:59:02.520 to see. 0:59:02.720 --> 0:59:05.160 Do you think that legitimizes it or it becomes like 0:59:05.240 --> 0:59:07.080 even more spectacular spectacle. 0:59:07.720 --> 0:59:10.320 So for me, like my two big questions about the 0:59:10.360 --> 0:59:13.520 future of this are I guess one thing I would 0:59:13.520 --> 0:59:15.960 preface is that like billionaires funding their like quirky sporting 0:59:15.960 --> 0:59:17.720 events is not new. I think about Trump and the 0:59:17.720 --> 0:59:20.480 New Jersey generals, you know, like or the XFL and 0:59:20.600 --> 0:59:22.960 Vince McMahon, what I would say, like, you know, I 0:59:23.000 --> 0:59:25.000 think part of the one of the big points to 0:59:25.040 --> 0:59:27.520 that point is there one of the big questions to 0:59:27.520 --> 0:59:31.800 that point is how long will Christian Angermeier and company 0:59:32.200 --> 0:59:34.880 continue to want to hemorrhage money engaging in this operation 0:59:35.240 --> 0:59:37.440 because they're going to have to keep paying athletes a 0:59:37.480 --> 0:59:39.960 ton of money to do this, and they need the 0:59:39.960 --> 0:59:41.840 business to work, and it's hard for me to understand 0:59:41.840 --> 0:59:44.000 how enhanced stands out from keeps or hymns or row 0:59:44.040 --> 0:59:48.720 or etcetera, etcetera. But then also I think the big question, 0:59:48.840 --> 0:59:50.800 I think this is maybe the most important thing for 0:59:50.840 --> 0:59:53.120 the future of the Enhanced Games is the case study 0:59:53.160 --> 0:59:57.480 of Hunter Armstrong, the backstroker who competed unenhanced. So he 0:59:58.680 --> 1:00:00.400 throughout the process was like, I I still want to 1:00:00.400 --> 1:00:01.280 compete in the Olympics. 1:00:01.360 --> 1:00:02.600 I just desperately need. 1:00:02.400 --> 1:00:05.160 Money, and the Olympics are a scam and they don't 1:00:05.160 --> 1:00:06.920 pay you, and so I am going to do this 1:00:06.960 --> 1:00:09.400 and I want WADA. Please keep testing me. I will 1:00:09.960 --> 1:00:11.800 be you know, I'm just gonna do this competition and 1:00:11.800 --> 1:00:15.840 then come back. It is currently unclear if they're going 1:00:15.920 --> 1:00:18.760 to let him compete in the Olympics and the World 1:00:18.840 --> 1:00:24.240 Championships and whatever moving forward. They did happen to test 1:00:24.320 --> 1:00:26.840 him directly after the he competed at the Enhanced Games. 1:00:26.840 --> 1:00:29.120 They pulled him aside and tested him, which is funny. 1:00:30.520 --> 1:00:32.920 But the question of whether or not he's going to 1:00:32.960 --> 1:00:34.720 get banned, I think is important because if he's not, 1:00:34.960 --> 1:00:38.520 then that opens the door. I think two tons of 1:00:38.600 --> 1:00:41.200 other athletes who still want to stay in the Olympics 1:00:41.240 --> 1:00:44.400 system coming over and competing, and that's how you're going 1:00:44.440 --> 1:00:46.000 to get the kind of athletes who could break world 1:00:46.000 --> 1:00:50.680 records for at twenty five six, So you know, and 1:00:50.720 --> 1:00:53.400 I think that if that happens, if he's allowed to compete, 1:00:53.400 --> 1:00:55.040 then I could see the floodgates opening. And then the 1:00:55.120 --> 1:00:59.160 question just is like how long does enhance want to 1:00:59.160 --> 1:01:01.520 hemorrhage money paying because they cannot be profitable. 1:01:01.520 --> 1:01:04.280 There's no way, right if everyone breaking the records is 1:01:04.320 --> 1:01:07.320 not actually using the substances you're selling, there's no incentive 1:01:07.360 --> 1:01:09.720 to the consumer to go buy the substances, and then 1:01:09.720 --> 1:01:10.840 where does the money come from? 1:01:10.920 --> 1:01:12.320 Yeah, yeah, and. 1:01:12.280 --> 1:01:14.960 Then you're left with like, you know, teachers versus the 1:01:15.160 --> 1:01:16.080 JV team day. 1:01:19.640 --> 1:01:23.600 Yeah, all right, Well the podcast is superhuman. It's awesome, 1:01:24.000 --> 1:01:26.280 really great on the ground reporting. I love what you 1:01:26.280 --> 1:01:28.760 did with the episodes, especially like episode three. That was 1:01:28.800 --> 1:01:30.880 one that I immediately sent to my producer Robbie. 1:01:30.880 --> 1:01:32.320 I was like, listen to this, this is great. 1:01:32.640 --> 1:01:36.160 Shout out Lena Mescis, our senior producer. Incredible sound designer. 1:01:36.360 --> 1:01:37.040 Yeah, awesome. 1:01:37.320 --> 1:01:39.320 Well, great work guys, and I appreciate you coming on. 1:01:39.680 --> 1:01:41.760 Thanks, I appreciate it for having us. 1:01:43.120 --> 1:01:45.040 Thanks for checking out the show, and thanks to Chris 1:01:45.080 --> 1:01:47.360 and Sam for coming on to talk about the enhanced 1:01:47.360 --> 1:01:51.040 games and their podcast Superhuman. As a reminder, two percent 1:01:51.120 --> 1:01:53.840 is in your feed twice a week, so please subscribe 1:01:53.880 --> 1:01:56.800 so you get those updates. We are always open to 1:01:56.840 --> 1:01:59.560 your questions for our Ask Michael Anything section, Sending the 1:01:59.640 --> 1:02:02.240 media at two pc T dot com or drop me 1:02:02.240 --> 1:02:04.640 in the comments. If you want to watch this on video, 1:02:04.720 --> 1:02:07.760 the free iheartapp allows you to do just that. Give 1:02:07.760 --> 1:02:12.120 them download, watch us on video, and as always, have fun, 1:02:12.640 --> 1:02:13.120 don't die