1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:05,560
Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,039
Speaker 2: And welcome back to George g Nororay along with Keith Giles. Keith,

3
00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,479
Speaker 2: why did it take so long to get information about

4
00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:13,239
Speaker 2: the Gospel of Thomas.

5
00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it's because it was when it was discovered

6
00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:21,040
Speaker 3: in nineteen forty five. You know, there was this giant

7
00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,400
Speaker 3: jar with a whole lot I think it maybe forty

8
00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,320
Speaker 3: to fifty different texts that were you know, all found together.

9
00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,159
Speaker 3: They had to be you know, cataloged and translated, and

10
00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,760
Speaker 3: so it was translated into English. Discovered in nineteen forty five,

11
00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,159
Speaker 3: it wasn't translated in English until nineteen fifty nine, and

12
00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,559
Speaker 3: then I don't think they published a popular version that

13
00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:44,080
Speaker 3: you could go buy in the store and read until

14
00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:48,239
Speaker 3: like the seventies. So, you know, the scholarship for the

15
00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,040
Speaker 3: Gospel of Thomas is really you know, it's been in

16
00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,840
Speaker 3: my lifetime, really and when you compare that to the

17
00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,000
Speaker 3: other Gospels, you know, it's been over two thousand years

18
00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,760
Speaker 3: worth of scholarship. So it's really brand new for people

19
00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,480
Speaker 3: to begin to study and read the Gospel of Thomas

20
00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:06,240
Speaker 3: or the Gospel of Mary and some of the other

21
00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,960
Speaker 3: texts that were just have been discovered recently to figure

22
00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,000
Speaker 3: out what they're about. But I wanted to you had

23
00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:15,560
Speaker 3: asked me before the break about you know what it

24
00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,640
Speaker 3: was that I found so fascinating in the Gospel of Thomas.

25
00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:21,760
Speaker 3: So let me just let me give you an example.

26
00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,479
Speaker 3: This is exactly kind of what happened to me when

27
00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,000
Speaker 3: I was on the plane reading the book. So in

28
00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,000
Speaker 3: saying number seven, this is a quote from the Gospel

29
00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,920
Speaker 3: of Thomas, it says this, Jesus says, bless it is

30
00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:35,880
Speaker 3: the lion that becomes a man when consumed by the man,

31
00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,199
Speaker 3: and curse it is the man whom the lion consumes,

32
00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,360
Speaker 3: and the man becomes a lion. Now that's one of

33
00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,360
Speaker 3: those things that the first time I read it, I thought,

34
00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,520
Speaker 3: this is nonsense, it doesn't make any sense, and I

35
00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,560
Speaker 3: wanted to throw it against the wall. But when I

36
00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,640
Speaker 3: saw Duffy's book, what he pointed out was that the

37
00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:55,880
Speaker 3: only way to make sense of the Gospel of Thomas,

38
00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,440
Speaker 3: the sayings of Jesus from the Gospel of Thomas, was

39
00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,480
Speaker 3: to read them through the lens of non duality, to

40
00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,520
Speaker 3: read them from the lens the idea that we are

41
00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,880
Speaker 3: all connected right, that there's no separation. And when you

42
00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,160
Speaker 3: read the sayings of Jesus from the Gospel of Thomas,

43
00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,200
Speaker 3: for through that lens, they do make sense. They begin

44
00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,880
Speaker 3: to really have a sort of again a decoded message

45
00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:22,120
Speaker 3: for us. So let's go back to that saying. Like

46
00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:23,960
Speaker 3: a lot of the things that Jesus says, you know

47
00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,919
Speaker 3: in Matthew, Mark, Puk and John, you know, when he's

48
00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:30,080
Speaker 3: talking about a father and a son, or sheep and goats,

49
00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:35,560
Speaker 3: or you know, someone planting seed in a field, he's

50
00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,240
Speaker 3: talking about more than just what's on the surface, right.

51
00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,840
Speaker 3: Those things stand for other things, right, And we know

52
00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,520
Speaker 3: this from studying the parables of Jesus. And this is

53
00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,040
Speaker 3: what's going on here in this in this saying number seven,

54
00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:51,520
Speaker 3: the man would stand for the true self and the

55
00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:55,280
Speaker 3: lion would stand for the false self, the ego. Right,

56
00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,400
Speaker 3: and so the man or the true self recognizes the

57
00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,720
Speaker 3: illusion of and knows that truth is found through realizing

58
00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,400
Speaker 3: that we're not separate, and we're one with the divine source,

59
00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,640
Speaker 3: and we're one with all things. The lion, right, is

60
00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,679
Speaker 3: this metaphor of the ego. It's it's the one that

61
00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,000
Speaker 3: wants to be in control to devour its enemies and

62
00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,000
Speaker 3: it and it accepts this notion of us and them

63
00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:18,200
Speaker 3: kind of universe.

64
00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,760
Speaker 2: Right, A lot of parables here, right.

65
00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:25,480
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And so to summarize this saying seven, Jesus

66
00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,160
Speaker 3: is saying that when our fear driven ego is consumed,

67
00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:34,359
Speaker 3: they becomes subdued by the peaceful, free, innocent true self, right,

68
00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,640
Speaker 3: because the true self can realize its own oneness and

69
00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,800
Speaker 3: connection with God and with everything. Now, you could say,

70
00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,960
Speaker 3: keep okay, that's really convenient. Sure, you could just make

71
00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:48,400
Speaker 3: that up. But here's the good part. In Plato's Republic,

72
00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:53,280
Speaker 3: which was written before Jesus, Plato's Republic, he talks that

73
00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:57,240
Speaker 3: he is a metaphor, and he talks about this tension

74
00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,560
Speaker 3: between the ego and the true self, and he uses

75
00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,760
Speaker 3: the metaphor of a man and a lion. Now and

76
00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,760
Speaker 3: he explains exactly what I just told you. Now, what

77
00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,320
Speaker 3: does Plato have to do with Thomas. Well, here's a

78
00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,960
Speaker 3: fascinating fact that most people do not know. Along with

79
00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,640
Speaker 3: all of these texts that were discovered in Nakamati, Egypt,

80
00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,360
Speaker 3: that were all in one single jar and all put

81
00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:20,880
Speaker 3: together in this jar together, all of the texts were

82
00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:26,400
Speaker 3: Christian mystical texts, right, gnostic texts, except there was one

83
00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:31,400
Speaker 3: fragment really just a couple of pages from Plato's Republic. Now,

84
00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:37,520
Speaker 3: guess which fragment of Plato's Republic was bundled with the

85
00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,760
Speaker 3: Gospel of Thomas, The very same section of Plato's Republic

86
00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,240
Speaker 3: that explains the metaphor of the Lion and the Man.

87
00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,760
Speaker 3: It said, if someone pulled off that part of Plato's

88
00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,640
Speaker 3: Republic that explained saying seven and made sure it was

89
00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,400
Speaker 3: put in there with the other text, with the Gospel

90
00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,560
Speaker 3: of Thomas, so that in case we didn't understand it

91
00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,800
Speaker 3: could crack the code. We could understand what is going

92
00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,640
Speaker 3: on in these sayings. And when you realize this and

93
00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,120
Speaker 3: you start going back as I started doing after this

94
00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,520
Speaker 3: reading the sayings of Jesus from the Gospel Thomas, I

95
00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:17,279
Speaker 3: realized this is something really powerful and it's really a

96
00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:18,440
Speaker 3: message for us today.

97
00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,279
Speaker 2: So you changed your mind then about the Gospel of

98
00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:21,919
Speaker 2: Thomas in.

99
00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,640
Speaker 3: You, oh, totally. Yeah. I went from thinking it was

100
00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,080
Speaker 3: absolute nonsense to feeling like, no, you know what this is.

101
00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,839
Speaker 3: I think this is the real deal. I started researching

102
00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:37,400
Speaker 3: other scholars like doctor Ling Pagel's and others and started

103
00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:42,520
Speaker 3: realizing that there's very reputable scholars that are you know,

104
00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,039
Speaker 3: teaching at universities at Harvard and Yale who say, yes,

105
00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,440
Speaker 3: this is a legitimate text. This, these are the sayings

106
00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,640
Speaker 3: of Jesus. We should take this seriously. And the message

107
00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,040
Speaker 3: of it is, as I said, it's kind of mind

108
00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,760
Speaker 3: blowing and it really does align with quantum physics. And

109
00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,600
Speaker 3: that that's the thing that I think is so fantastic

110
00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,239
Speaker 3: is to realize that the things that Jesus is talking

111
00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,680
Speaker 3: about are things that you know, quantum physicists didn't figure

112
00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:12,320
Speaker 3: out until again just very recently, and we're still learning

113
00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:13,360
Speaker 3: about quantum science.

114
00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:16,400
Speaker 2: How did he know? But if he was the son

115
00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,880
Speaker 2: of God, he's supposed to know.

116
00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,440
Speaker 3: That's right, That's exactly right. Yeah, there's this ancient wisdom,

117
00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:26,240
Speaker 3: right that they had. And it's not just Jesus. I mean,

118
00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,880
Speaker 3: we can actually look and see, you know, if you

119
00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,160
Speaker 3: go back and look at other religious teachers and mystics

120
00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,960
Speaker 3: and even philosophers, if you read Buddha or Socrates or Plato,

121
00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:42,279
Speaker 3: if you listen to Sufi mystics like a Hollage and

122
00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:47,599
Speaker 3: Roomy Black Elk, Native American shaman and many others. What

123
00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,920
Speaker 3: you'll see is they're all kind of saying this same thing,

124
00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:55,640
Speaker 3: this idea that we are all connected. And and I

125
00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,320
Speaker 3: probably should explain for your listeners. I mean, they probably

126
00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,320
Speaker 3: do know. But when I say quantum, right, my book

127
00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:03,800
Speaker 3: is The Quantum Things of Jesus. When I say quantum,

128
00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:08,480
Speaker 3: what am I talking about? Right? It's this idea from

129
00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:13,480
Speaker 3: quantum physics. What quantum physicists are discovering is that that

130
00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:17,200
Speaker 3: we are all connected. Right. It starts, you know, I

131
00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,480
Speaker 3: think the birthplace of it was this what's called the

132
00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,280
Speaker 3: double slit experiment. I won't go into super detail with it,

133
00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,360
Speaker 3: but essentially scientists are trying to determine the nature of light.

134
00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,080
Speaker 3: It is light made of a particle or a wave,

135
00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,000
Speaker 3: and to figure that out, they fired single photons through

136
00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,640
Speaker 3: it this double slit and captured this interference pattern on

137
00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:36,520
Speaker 3: a sensor on the other side of the room. And

138
00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,800
Speaker 3: here's what they discovered. Mind blowing that the photons behaved

139
00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,240
Speaker 3: one way if you observe them, in a different way

140
00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:48,800
Speaker 3: if you didn't. And that suggested two amazing things. One

141
00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:54,240
Speaker 3: that human consciousness changed the behavior of that photon. By

142
00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,800
Speaker 3: the way, this is repeated whether you use electrons or

143
00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:01,320
Speaker 3: photons or many other different things. It still keeps happening.

144
00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:05,920
Speaker 3: But it also suggests this the possibility that the photons

145
00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,960
Speaker 3: themselves were conscious, They were aware of whether they were

146
00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,400
Speaker 3: being observed or not. And all of this has led

147
00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,720
Speaker 3: quantum scientists to begin rethinking the nature of reality. So

148
00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:22,520
Speaker 3: for the longest time, theologians and philosophers have sort of

149
00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:26,320
Speaker 3: had this debate with scientists. Right, scientists are materialists. They

150
00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:28,120
Speaker 3: don't believe in the soul, they don't believe in the

151
00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,640
Speaker 3: mystical things, they don't believe in God, and so they're

152
00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,000
Speaker 3: very much like, no, it's only atoms, it's only a

153
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,880
Speaker 3: material world. We live in a material universe and some mechanism. Right,

154
00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:42,560
Speaker 3: and mystics and theologians and philosophers have said, if this

155
00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,240
Speaker 3: is true, they've challenged the scientists, if this is true,

156
00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:50,040
Speaker 3: then how can you explain how human consciousness has arisen

157
00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,720
Speaker 3: from matter from just atoms and molecules. And for the

158
00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,880
Speaker 3: longest time there was no answer. This is really where

159
00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,960
Speaker 3: the debate ended was because there was no answer to

160
00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,280
Speaker 3: scientists couldn't explain it. But now with quantum science, what

161
00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,439
Speaker 3: they're realizing. What scientists are realizing is that they have

162
00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,760
Speaker 3: been asking the wrong question. They've been asking the question

163
00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:15,040
Speaker 3: how does consciousness arise from matter? And what they realize

164
00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,120
Speaker 3: now is that the real question should be how does

165
00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:23,920
Speaker 3: matter arise from consciousness? Meaning consciousness is the root of

166
00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:28,360
Speaker 3: all reality. They would call it the quantum field, and

167
00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,200
Speaker 3: they would say the quantum field is everything and everything

168
00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,800
Speaker 3: is the quantum field. And so even though we perceive

169
00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:39,240
Speaker 3: the world around us as everything is separate, everything is different, right,

170
00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,760
Speaker 3: that's the material universe. That's how what we observe with

171
00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,880
Speaker 3: our eyes, with our senses. But what we get down

172
00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,720
Speaker 3: to the quantum level, what realizing is that's not true.

173
00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,760
Speaker 3: The reality is there's only one thing, and that's the

174
00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,160
Speaker 3: quantum field, and everything you and me and everything in

175
00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:00,600
Speaker 3: the universe is simply an expression of that single quant field.

176
00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:06,760
Speaker 3: And where scientists would call this the quantum field, a

177
00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:11,079
Speaker 3: mystic might call this consciousness. Theologian might call this christ

178
00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,960
Speaker 3: I think those are interchangeable terms, because really, when you

179
00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,640
Speaker 3: look at what everyone's saying, they are all saying the

180
00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,360
Speaker 3: same thing. They're using different terms, but at the end

181
00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:22,640
Speaker 3: of the day, what they're saying is we are all

182
00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,920
Speaker 3: connected to a divine source, to an ultimate consciousness, and

183
00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,720
Speaker 3: therefore we are all connected to one another in ways

184
00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:31,080
Speaker 3: that we can't even imagine.

185
00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:36,400
Speaker 2: How different is the Gospel of Thomas from Matthew Mark

186
00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,880
Speaker 2: Lucan John's so.

187
00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,280
Speaker 3: Great man, thank you for asking me that, Because when

188
00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:43,960
Speaker 3: I start to talk about these things, you know, and

189
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:48,440
Speaker 3: I say, wow, Thomas has these amazing teachings from Jesus

190
00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:51,600
Speaker 3: that talk about our oneness in our connection with God

191
00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:55,680
Speaker 3: and our oneness in our connection with humanity, people will say, well,

192
00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,440
Speaker 3: that doesn't sound like the Gospel. That sounds like new teaching. No,

193
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,120
Speaker 3: it's absolutely not new teach In fact, Jesus says things

194
00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,160
Speaker 3: like this, and in the Gospels, the Apostle Paul says

195
00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,199
Speaker 3: things like this. The very first letter that Paul ever

196
00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,680
Speaker 3: wrote was to the Church in Galicia. And imagine, in fact,

197
00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,880
Speaker 3: Paul's letters were written before the Gospels. Actually, so the

198
00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,600
Speaker 3: first Christian writings that ever existed were from the apostle Paul.

199
00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,320
Speaker 3: And his first letter he ever wrote, he told the

200
00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,680
Speaker 3: Church in Galicia that in Christ there is no male

201
00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,720
Speaker 3: or female slave free Jewish gentiles. Why because we are

202
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:33,080
Speaker 3: all one in Christ. In other words, this what you

203
00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:38,080
Speaker 3: observe around you as separation, male, female, ge gentile, slave, free,

204
00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,440
Speaker 3: fill in the blank. That's an illusion. The reality is

205
00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,040
Speaker 3: we are all one in Christ. Jesus says this all

206
00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,040
Speaker 3: the time too. Jesus said it in the Gospel of John.

207
00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,640
Speaker 3: He said, one day you will realize you will realize this,

208
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,400
Speaker 3: I am in the Father, and you are in me,

209
00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,840
Speaker 3: and I am in you. Now, Christian theologians have taken

210
00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,480
Speaker 3: that saying and said Jesus was just talking about himself.

211
00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,800
Speaker 3: He's telling us, one day you're going to realize that I,

212
00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,280
Speaker 3: Jesus am in the Father, and then you are George

213
00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,040
Speaker 3: or in me, and I am in George. I would submit.

214
00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:10,880
Speaker 3: Another way to understand what he's saying in the Gospel

215
00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,160
Speaker 3: of John is this Jesus is looking at the disciples

216
00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,800
Speaker 3: and saying, hey, guys, one day you're going to have

217
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,640
Speaker 3: this aha moment where you, individually, you are going to

218
00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:23,520
Speaker 3: say to yourself, I'm in the Father and you are

219
00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:25,800
Speaker 3: in me, and I am in you, meaning other people

220
00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,000
Speaker 3: are in you and you are in them. This is

221
00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,960
Speaker 3: that same idea. We have a connection to the divine

222
00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:33,600
Speaker 3: and we have a connection to one another. Jesus all

223
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:35,280
Speaker 3: the time, and the ERMU on the Mountain is reminding

224
00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:37,280
Speaker 3: the disciples. Whatever you've done to the least, you've done

225
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,880
Speaker 3: it to me. How is that possible. It's possible because

226
00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,720
Speaker 3: we are all connected. There is no separation, right, and

227
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,200
Speaker 3: so it's again, it sounds different if I just pull

228
00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,040
Speaker 3: it out like that. But if you look these things

229
00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,120
Speaker 3: that Jesus taught, they are also in the gospels. They're

230
00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,400
Speaker 3: also in the teachings of Paul. It's not an extra

231
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,560
Speaker 3: biblical teaching. It's just not something that has emphasized by

232
00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,520
Speaker 3: you know, the Orthodox Christian Church that we have today.

233
00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,320
Speaker 2: What would you say is one of the most significant

234
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,000
Speaker 2: profound sayings in the Gospel of Thomas.

235
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of them. Well, one of the

236
00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,440
Speaker 3: ones that I think is so powerful. It's probably one

237
00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,240
Speaker 3: of the key sayings as saying number twenty two, and

238
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,200
Speaker 3: it's Jesus says to them and again that's how they

239
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,600
Speaker 3: all start. Jesus said, So it's just say twenty two.

240
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:33,040
Speaker 3: Jesus said, when you make the two as one, and

241
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,800
Speaker 3: when you make the inside as the outside and the

242
00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,000
Speaker 3: outside as the inside, and the upper is the lower,

243
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,800
Speaker 3: and when you make the male and the female into

244
00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,679
Speaker 3: a single one, so that the male is not male

245
00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,439
Speaker 3: and the female is not female, then you shall enter

246
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,160
Speaker 3: the kingdom. And again that sounds a lot like what

247
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,840
Speaker 3: Paul is saying in Galatians. There's no male or females

248
00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,760
Speaker 3: labor free, right. All these distinctions are illusions. The reality

249
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,520
Speaker 3: is we have to make the inside and the outside,

250
00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:03,439
Speaker 3: and the ethic like the outside, and the outside like

251
00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,280
Speaker 3: the inside, meaning in our minds we need to realize

252
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,360
Speaker 3: there is no outside or inside. There is no upper

253
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,440
Speaker 3: or lower, there is no male or female because we

254
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:16,000
Speaker 3: are all one. And there's also I mentioned you know

255
00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,560
Speaker 3: that some of the things that Paul taught echoes some

256
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,880
Speaker 3: of these teachings from Thomas. There's actually a saying in

257
00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:27,800
Speaker 3: the Gospel of Thomas that Paul quotes in First Corinthians,

258
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:32,640
Speaker 3: chapter two, which is fantastic because that means that if

259
00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,200
Speaker 3: Paul wrote this letter before any of the other gospels

260
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,160
Speaker 3: were written, and yet he's quoting the Gospel of Thomas,

261
00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,640
Speaker 3: that means he was aware of this saying from Thomas

262
00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,880
Speaker 3: and maybe even had a copy of the Gospel of

263
00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:45,880
Speaker 3: Thomas when he quoted it. Because when he quotes it,

264
00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:48,920
Speaker 3: this is what he says. He says just as it

265
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,240
Speaker 3: is written now when you quote scripture, that's what you say,

266
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,080
Speaker 3: as it is written, and then you quote it, that's

267
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,440
Speaker 3: what That's exactly what Paul says vers Scrippans two nine.

268
00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,840
Speaker 3: He says, as it is written things which I ha

269
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,160
Speaker 3: not seen, an era has not heard, and which has

270
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,760
Speaker 3: not entered into the human heart, all that God has

271
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,600
Speaker 3: prepared for those who love him. That is a quote

272
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,760
Speaker 3: from Saying seventeen of the Gospel of Thomas. And again

273
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,080
Speaker 3: we didn't know that he was quoting Thomas until we

274
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,960
Speaker 3: discovered it in nineteen forty five, translated it in nineteen

275
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,040
Speaker 3: fifty nine, and published it in the seventies.

276
00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,000
Speaker 2: He's back. In the fifties and sixties, Hollywood did a

277
00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,320
Speaker 2: lot of movies about the Bible and Jesus and things

278
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,840
Speaker 2: like that. And I remember Charlton Heston doing his thing

279
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,200
Speaker 2: and stuff. Why aren't they doing that anymore?

280
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:38,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, great question. Well, I think the big one, right,

281
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,360
Speaker 3: the big final one was mel Gibson's Passion of the Christ,

282
00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,240
Speaker 3: and it did very well. It's not like it was

283
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:48,240
Speaker 3: a flop. But since then, they've been a handful of movies.

284
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:50,320
Speaker 3: I know there was there was a couple of them.

285
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,640
Speaker 3: That was one called I think it was the Robe

286
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,440
Speaker 3: or something like that. So they've done a few of them,

287
00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,320
Speaker 3: but here I don't know. I don't know why Hollywood

288
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,040
Speaker 3: isn't doing it, but I will say that I think

289
00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,160
Speaker 3: people are ready for this kind of a message. I

290
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,560
Speaker 3: think people are very open to the sayings of Jesus.

291
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,840
Speaker 3: I've talked to so many people, even those that are

292
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,600
Speaker 3: raised Christian, who are saying, you know what, I'm kind

293
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,640
Speaker 3: of I'm not a big fan of the church, but

294
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,240
Speaker 3: I still love Jesus, and so they're very fascinated with Jesus.

295
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:22,760
Speaker 3: And so I think that's one of the reasons why

296
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,080
Speaker 3: people have really loved my book is because it's it

297
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,360
Speaker 3: is Jesus, but it's just the words of Jesus and

298
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,480
Speaker 3: the teachings of Jesus, and it's an emphasis on his

299
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,800
Speaker 3: teaching us to recognize that we are already connected to

300
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:37,720
Speaker 3: God and that we're connected to one another. And if

301
00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:43,520
Speaker 3: there's something there's a responsibility in that right, like this

302
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,560
Speaker 3: idea of loving your neighbor as yourself, or even loving

303
00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,640
Speaker 3: your enemy, well it's much easier to do that when

304
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:51,240
Speaker 3: when you look at your neighbor and you look at

305
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:55,680
Speaker 3: your enemy, you don't see another you see your connection

306
00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:56,480
Speaker 3: to the divine.

307
00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,840
Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

308
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,880
Speaker 1: one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to coastam

309
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:04,120
Speaker 1: dot com for more