1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: Murder in Miami is a production of iHeartRadio, previously on 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: Murder in Miami. Having been told by Chester that her 3 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: life was in danger, not knowing who was behind that threat, 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: Bickerton's fears are left to fester. 5 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 2: I have a contract all my life, so I did 6 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 2: reach out to the military guys and we kind of 7 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 2: figured out a game plan. I would marry one because 8 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 2: that would then they could legitimately bring me over to 9 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 2: the camp so that Lamar couldn't get near me. 10 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: After the rushed and staged wedding, Bickerton would land in Houston, 11 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: the location of the Lone Star investigation. 12 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 3: The FEDS went to her soldier friends in Georgia said 13 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 3: where is she and they said she's in Houston, and 14 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 3: then they tracked her down. 15 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 4: She said her knowledge of what the government agents and 16 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 4: prosecutors were willing to do made her fear them. 17 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: If Chester started to sound baranoid about perceived threats to 18 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 1: his life, It's hard to know where they'd be coming from. 19 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 3: I'm back in DC for about a year, and I 20 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 3: get a call from Bob Adams down in Miami and 21 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 3: he says Lamar just died. 22 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 1: On June twentieth of nineteen eighty five, drug smuggler Lamar 23 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,960 Speaker 1: Chester was killed in a plane crash on his property 24 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: in rural northern Georgia. C. B. Hackworth, who was a 25 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: young newspaper reporter for the Gainesville Times at the time, 26 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 1: recalls how and when he heard the news. 27 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 4: I was at the airport in Atlanta, about to get 28 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 4: on a plane to go to an IRI. 29 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: Conference For those not familiar, IRI stands for investigative Reporters 30 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: and editors, where. 31 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 4: I was going to see other reporters covering different aspects 32 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 4: of the smuggling ring in which Lamar Chester had been implicated. 33 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 4: And my name was announced on the loud speakers, which 34 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 4: was somewhat unusual in those days. So I went to 35 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 4: the gate and took a phone call. It was from 36 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 4: my city editor, and he said that Lamar Chester had 37 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:20,679 Speaker 4: been killed on a plane crash and I should come 38 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 4: back and write my story. Of course, it came as 39 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 4: a surprise, but I pretty quickly decided that the story 40 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 4: I could write just as well at the IRI conference, 41 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:38,519 Speaker 4: I could write on the plane. So I said, no, 42 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 4: what was. 43 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 1: The wash of emotions that went over you? 44 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 4: There were two things, one is and meaning no disrespect 45 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 4: whatsoever to anyone. But a weight was lifted off of 46 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 4: my chest that I didn't even realize was on it. 47 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 4: Because a year and a half of dealing with Lamar 48 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 4: and keeping him at arm's length, I knew that there 49 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 4: were so many dangerous aspects and so much that I 50 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 4: didn't know. I knew there was more I didn't know 51 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 4: than what I did know. What I did know was 52 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 4: dangerous enough that I didn't have to worry anymore about 53 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 4: who was out there. 54 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: But Chester's death and the way he died, remains less resolved. 55 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 4: That really wasn't the ending that anybody had, anybody had expected. 56 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 4: He always always said that he would not be allowed 57 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 4: to testify, that something would intervene. I always took that 58 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 4: to mean one of two things. Either he would be killed, 59 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 4: and he implied that he was more scared of the 60 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 4: government than he was a drug smugglers. In fact, I 61 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 4: think he did more than imply it. I think that's 62 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 4: the flat out what he said. But the other was 63 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 4: that he thought that there would be some kind of 64 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 4: deal cut at the last minute to prevent him from testifying, 65 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 4: and Lamar Chester died in a very strange plane crash. 66 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: I'm Lauren bred Pacheco and this is murder in Miami. 67 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 5: Indicted drug smuggler Tilt and Lamar Chester crashed near his 68 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 5: five hundred acre Georgia farm Thursday, killing him and seriously injured. 69 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 6: He charged with drug smuggling, was killed and his five 70 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 6: year old daughter seriously injured in a plane crash. 71 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: Crash has not been determined, but an investigator with the 72 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: Georgia Bureau of Investigegation said it was being handled as 73 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: a routine accident. I requested a copy of the report 74 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: from the Georgia Bureau of Investigations. The summary reads quote 75 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: On Thursday, June twentieth, nineteen eighty five, Tilton Lamar Chester Junior, 76 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 1: along with his daughter, Artist Jewel Chester, five years of age, 77 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: apparently crashed a Piper Cub aircraft near the Chester residence. 78 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: Chester was dead at the scene. Chester was a primary 79 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: target in Operation Loan Star US Customs and Irs investigation 80 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: and has been under indictment for the last two years 81 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: for drug related offenses and was rumored to be cooperating 82 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: with authorities. Chester also alleged that he worked for the CIA. 83 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: Investigation continues. The report concludes a complete and thorough investigation 84 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: was conducted, no evidence of foul play. There will be 85 00:05:55,320 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: no coroner's inquest held. This investigation is closed. It's interesting 86 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: to note that the report was filed the day after 87 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: the crash, Friday, June twenty first, nineteen eighty five. Here's 88 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: Phil Stamford. 89 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,919 Speaker 3: Their report was filed the day after, which is hardly 90 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 3: time to have had any sort of investigation. They did 91 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 3: not want to investigate this, and one of the reasons, 92 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 3: undoubtedly was that one of their agents, Frank Baker Junior, 93 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 3: was on the scene almost immediately. He had to be 94 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 3: there when the plane went down. 95 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: The report was indeed filed by Officer Baker. 96 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 3: When you look back at a nonsensical really that they 97 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 3: could have come to any sort of conclusions about the 98 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 3: cause of the crash in less than twenty four hours. 99 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: And also, I mean, why wouldn't you have a coroner's inquest, 100 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: particularly given the circumstances of what he was involved in. 101 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 3: Important thing to remember here is that his trial was 102 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 3: coming up, and he'd threatened to go public with a 103 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 3: laundry list of CIA misdeeds that he knew about and 104 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 3: he said would shake the nation to its core. 105 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: Frank Baker Junior's presence immediately at the crash, and the 106 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: fact that they turned around that report so quickly that 107 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: probably gave credence to a lot of people who doubted 108 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: the original version of the crash and considered it to 109 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: have been suspicious at best, but possibly murder. Were there 110 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: people at the time immediately who considered the crash suspicious? 111 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 3: Certainly among those who considered it more than just suspicious 112 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 3: was Lamar's best friend, Ron Elliott, who was at the 113 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 3: ranch at the Chicken Farm in North Georgia the night 114 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 3: before the crash. 115 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: Years later, Phil and Ron Elliott would communicate extensively about 116 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: Elliot's close friendship with Lamar Chester and the time period 117 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: leading up to and after the crash. 118 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 3: I've been trying to make sense of this for some time, 119 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 3: and a few years ago decided to track down Ron Elliott, 120 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 3: who had found finally tracked down in Shanghai. Very energetic guy, 121 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 3: a real hard charger, and he was in Shanghai trying 122 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 3: to set up a seafood importation business with the cooperation 123 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 3: of the Chinese government. He didn't want to just make 124 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 3: his first million, He wanted to make his first ten million. 125 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 3: I told him what I wanted to talk about, you know, 126 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 3: thinking that he might shy away from me, but it 127 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 3: was just the opposite. He'd been holding this in for 128 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 3: so long, he'd suffered for it, really, and it all 129 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 3: came out in a rush. 130 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 7: I never met him in person. 131 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 3: We exchanged many emails over a period of several months, 132 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 3: and he told me about the night before the crash 133 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 3: and his business dealings with Lamar, how they had been 134 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 3: involved in what later became known as the Iran contru affair. 135 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Ron Elliott passed recently, but Phil has saved Elliott's 136 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: version of events, as depicted through their correspondence, which he shares. 137 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 8: Now. 138 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 3: Okay, it's the night before the crash and I was 139 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 3: staying at Lamar's house outside Cleveland, big magnificent place built 140 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,439 Speaker 3: over a large hangar that houses several airplanes. 141 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 7: After dinner, I. 142 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 3: Played with the baby aj she's four or five at 143 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 3: the time, played a little fust ball with Lamar. Had 144 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 3: a good time, and after that I went to my room, 145 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 3: which opened up onto the tennis courts facing ease. It 146 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 3: was raining, My door to the tennis courts was opening. 147 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 3: I turned in about eleven PM. Was lying there, I 148 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 3: realized I could hear a motor running. But Lamar and 149 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 3: I had locked the gate at about ten, so. 150 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 7: What was going on. 151 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 3: I don't want to backlight myself, so I go down 152 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 3: towards the front of the house into the living room, 153 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 3: where there's a staircase going down to the hangar. 154 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 7: The house was dark. 155 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 3: Across the front of the house there's about one hundred 156 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,559 Speaker 3: feet of sliding glass doors opening onto a stone patio 157 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 3: with wide steps going down. I slide one door open. 158 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,319 Speaker 3: There's no moon, but I can clearly see two cars 159 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,599 Speaker 3: park next to my twin engine about one hundred and 160 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 3: fifty feet away. It's parked tail end to the house 161 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 3: on a hill. 162 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 7: I did that so I. 163 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 3: Could leave early the next morning with only start up power. 164 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 3: Glide down the hill, go to the other end for 165 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 3: take off. I hear the door to the kitchen stairwell open. 166 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 3: I'm trapped standing there in my skivites. Whoever they are, 167 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 3: they're between me and my room and my gun. Lamar 168 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 3: slept with a gun, insisted I did too. He said 169 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 3: it was because the locals were bad and they'd rob you. 170 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 3: Sort Of instinctively, I yelled down to the hangar, freeze, motherfucker. 171 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 3: I'll blow your head off, Lamar answered from downstairs inside 172 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 3: the hangar. He'd heard something too and was already down here. 173 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 3: Hey boy, that's you, he said. I yelled to him, 174 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 3: be careful the two cars out there. The cars tore 175 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 3: off towards the gate. Lamar yelled at me to get 176 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 3: in the pickup. He was coming with a shotgun. The 177 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 3: cars easily beat us to the gate. I could see 178 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 3: them sliding one side to the other on the wet clay. 179 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 3: One car turned toward Cleveland, the other went west. The 180 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 3: car that turned west went off the road and down 181 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 3: into a swale. Lamar yelled at me to go for 182 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 3: that one. We were maybe one hundred feet behind it. 183 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 3: Lamar leaned out the window and fired two shots. 184 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 7: Into the back window. 185 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 3: I slammed onto the brakes, just stopped on the road, 186 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 3: got out my skivvies and told him go ahead. He's 187 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 3: screaming at me, calling me chicken shit. I say, you 188 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 3: think you can murder people just because they come on 189 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 3: your property, and he says, what the you think they 190 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 3: were there for? In our underwear. We drive into town. 191 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 3: It's deserted. As I approached the circle with the station 192 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 3: in the middle, there's a very loud whistle. It's the 193 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 3: chief of police whistling at us. He waves us to 194 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 3: come over. Lamar just smiles says, you gotta do what 195 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 3: you gotta do. It was like a fucking dream being 196 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 3: naked out there on the street. I put my arm 197 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 3: over the door and pull myself as close as I can. 198 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 3: At first, the chief says something like you boys just 199 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 3: out cruising. Then he could see that Lamar was in 200 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 3: his jockey shorts, and he looked at me as well 201 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 3: and just started laughing. 202 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 7: Lamar knew him. Well. 203 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 3: Lamar just got this fake, sheepish grin and said we 204 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 3: sort of had to leave in a hurry. 205 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 7: Lamar was a known womanizer everywhere. 206 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 3: Chief said, with a big smile, don't suppose you want 207 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 3: to give me a name? I didn't think so. Is 208 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 3: there maybe going to be a little bit of trouble 209 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 3: out of this? Lamar said, guy didn't know a thing. 210 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 7: We were just too far from our clothes. 211 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 3: We go back to the house and spend until daylight 212 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 3: going over every inch of my plane, removed every inspection plate, checked, 213 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 3: gas tanks, fuel lines, everything. 214 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 7: Lamar was a master mechanic. 215 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 3: Then we went into the hangar and went over his 216 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 3: twin and his Cessina two oh six. The only plane 217 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 3: we didn't look at was the piper Cub, the one 218 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 3: he died in. 219 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 7: I took off. 220 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 3: Early that morning, and when I arrived at my hotel 221 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 3: that night in Fort Myers, there was an urgent message 222 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 3: from my brother. 223 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 7: I called him and he. 224 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 3: Said, your buddy's dead and AJ is probably not going 225 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 3: to make it either. It took me a year to 226 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 3: realize that we almost certainly had left the purp and 227 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 3: that goddamn hangars. Think about it, If he'd finished his job, 228 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 3: the cars would not have been sitting out there on 229 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 3: the lawn. 230 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:08,839 Speaker 7: They would have driven away. 231 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: At the time. The initial explanation for the crash was 232 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: that the plane, a small Piper Cub, had run out 233 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: of fuel. Happy Miles was living in Oregon when he 234 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: got the news of Chester's death. 235 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 9: It was Ron Elliott who called me. 236 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: After you got the call and you heard that Chester 237 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: was dead, what was running through your head when you 238 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: hung up the phone. 239 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 9: Well, I was really shut back by it because of 240 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 9: the way he died. I just couldn't fathom that he 241 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 9: had wrecked the airplane. He would never have run out 242 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 9: of fuel. He knew that airplane in and out, he 243 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 9: would have got in it. And that airplane, I think 244 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 9: had a float tank right in front of a with 245 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 9: a float on it. It showed how much fuel was 246 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 9: in it, so you couldn't miss the fact that it 247 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 9: didn't have fuel. 248 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: Happy Miles was further unsettled by Lamar Chester's funeral service. 249 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 9: I went to the funeral. It was a solemn time. 250 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 9: It was in a mortuary. Ron Elliott was there, I 251 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 9: was there, artists. The baby had a broken back and 252 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 9: was in the hospital, and the kids were there. 253 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: His grown kids from his first marriage. 254 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 9: Yeah, they wanted to see the body before it was cremated. 255 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 9: And when they opened the casket, the body had already 256 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 9: been cremated. 257 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: That's kind of bizarre. 258 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 9: Very bizarre. The body had been cremated already. I mean, 259 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 9: that was totally totally, totally wrong. 260 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: Back to Phil reading ron Elliott's version of events. 261 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 3: Okay, after the funeral, I spent a considerable amount of 262 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 3: time talking to people trying to figure out what happened. 263 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 3: Miss Lily and her neighbor were sitting on the front 264 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 3: porch of an old ramshackle house across the road from 265 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 3: the farm, shilling Peas they saw the plane take off, 266 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 3: they could see that little five year old AJ was 267 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 3: on board. One of them said, there goes the little 268 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 3: princess taking flying lessons from her daddy. Then boom, they 269 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 3: looked up and the plane was falling. Lily threw down 270 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 3: her piece and started running towards the plane, almost ran 271 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 3: into an eighteen wheeler crossing the road, ran into a ditch, 272 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 3: hit a barbed wire fence, she couldn't see, lost her glasses, 273 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 3: wound up crawling to the airplane. She was bandaged from 274 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 3: her toes to way up under her dress. When I 275 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 3: talked to her, artist's father, who lived in a house 276 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 3: on the farm, was already there. She remembers him saying, 277 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 3: come on, man, come on, help me get the baby down. 278 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 3: The little baby AJ was hanging by her safety harness. 279 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 3: I thought he was talking to me, Miss Lilly said, 280 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 3: but he wasn't. There was another man there, Bobby, the 281 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 3: local Georgia Bureau of Investigations agent. But Bobby wasn't there 282 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 3: to help with the baby at all. He was running 283 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 3: towards his car with a piece of something he'd taken 284 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 3: from the plane. 285 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 7: And then he came back and they took the baby down. 286 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: Just to clarify, So Bobby would be Frank Baker Junior, 287 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 1: the GBI agent who was the first on the scene, 288 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: first responder on the scene. 289 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, for some reason, Ron called him Bobby, And maybe 290 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 3: that was a nickname that other people used, but it's 291 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 3: certainly the name Ron used for him, Bobby. His real 292 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 3: name was Frank Baker Junior. He was the GBI agent 293 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 3: in White County. His father, Frank Baker Sr. Was the sheriff, 294 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 3: had been for years, so the two of them had 295 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 3: the place pretty well wrapped up. I certainly don't have 296 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 3: any proof that there was more than just the ordinary 297 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 3: you wash my hands, I'll wash your hands corruption in 298 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 3: White County, but if there was, the CIA would have 299 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 3: had ample leverage on Bobby Frank Jr. To get him 300 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 3: involved in this plot to kill Lamar, which is what 301 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 3: I think actually happened. 302 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: Well, I do have to point out that C. B. 303 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: Hackworth does dispute that Bobby, you know, Frank Baker Junior, 304 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:46,199 Speaker 1: would be capable of something like that, that they were friends, 305 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: and that he viewed him as a stand up guy. 306 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 7: How he ended up at the Chrish. 307 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,679 Speaker 3: Almost as the plane was going down Yeah, I'd like 308 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 3: to hear that one, and Ron is certainly entitled. 309 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:01,400 Speaker 7: To his opinion. 310 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: This was Ron Elliott's remembrance. 311 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 3: Artist's father, mister Lawrence, was there within thirty seconds of 312 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 3: the crash, and Bobby was driving up just as her 313 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 3: father arrived. The third person was Miss Lily from across 314 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 3: the highway. He told me he was on the front 315 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 3: porch of the house Lamar built for him and his wife, 316 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 3: reading the paper when he heard the plane take off. 317 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:26,679 Speaker 3: He heard the boom and looked up and it was 318 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 3: coming down. He jumped into his car raced to the site. 319 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 3: The other guy who helped him was already there, I 320 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 3: have to say. Mister Lawrence told me later he didn't 321 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 3: see Bobby put anything in his car. However, it was 322 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,880 Speaker 3: because he'd already crawled into the plane and was trying 323 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:42,880 Speaker 3: to get aj down. 324 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 7: It was miss Lily who saw that. 325 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,880 Speaker 1: Happy Miles says Ron Elliott had also spoken to him 326 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: about Baker well. 327 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 9: He told me that Baker had been bragging the night 328 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 9: before that he was going to get Lamar in the 329 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 9: bar the night before, saying how he was going to 330 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 9: get the son of a bitch, and then the next 331 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 9: day Lamar was dead. 332 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: And he was the guy who was the first on 333 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: the scene. 334 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 8: Yeah yeah. 335 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: I requested a copy of the accident report from the 336 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: National Transportation Safety Board. The final report finding reads that 337 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 1: quote virtually no fuel was found in the tanks, lines, 338 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: and carburetor. No pre impact part failure or malfunction was found. 339 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: So the official reason for the crash was basically that 340 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: the Piper cub ran out of fuel, something that Happy Miles, 341 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: also a seasoned pilot, still finds preposterous. 342 00:20:55,320 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 9: First off, he would have never crashed an airplane, you know. 343 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 7: I mean, he was too good a. 344 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 1: Pilot even if it were out of fuel. Could a 345 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: pilot of Chester's stature have landed that in the fields 346 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: without crashing? 347 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 9: Oh yeah, I mean in the field and the trees. 348 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 9: She could have put it anywhere and walked away. It 349 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:26,880 Speaker 9: just it didn't add up. That airplane landed so slow, 350 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:34,160 Speaker 9: probably down around thirty miles an hour. It wasn't heavily loaded, 351 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 9: just Seim and his daughter, and there were fields all 352 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 9: over the place. There were a lot of trees and 353 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 9: hills and stuff. But he would have landed it, no problem, 354 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 9: no problem. I'm one hundred percent share of that. 355 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: The ran out of fuel theory also clashes with an 356 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: eyewitness account shared with Phil Stanford eight years ago or so. 357 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 3: When I started my own investigation into this, I went 358 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 3: down to northern Georgia. One of the places I stopped 359 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 3: was Cleveland. Ended up talking to a manager at the 360 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 3: local hardware store. He told me he'd been on the 361 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 3: volunteer fire department at that time, what we now called it, 362 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 3: a first responder. He was out there shortly after the 363 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 3: plane went down, and he said the plane was upside down. 364 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 3: And he said, no, the plane wasn't out of fuel, 365 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 3: it was dripping fuel from the wings. 366 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 1: I've obtained multiple photos of the crashed plane. It is 367 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: indeed lying upside down. The nose of the piper cub 368 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: appears severely damaged, crumpled and torn by what one would 369 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: imagine was extreme force or speed. So, if the official 370 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: explanation was false and the plane was sabotaged, what exactly 371 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: did Ron Elliott think cause the crash? 372 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 7: Asked Gron about that. Here's what he said. 373 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 3: He said that it had to be a spring loaded 374 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 3: cable cutter electronically activated by a ground signal that would 375 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,199 Speaker 3: have disconnected the plane's elevator control, causing the plane to 376 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:17,360 Speaker 3: pitch nose down, which is what it did. But whatever 377 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 3: it was, he said, three people heard a loud boom. 378 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 3: Miss Lilly, her friend sellin Peas with her across the road. 379 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 3: An artist's father. Ron said he was convinced that there 380 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 3: would have been evidence of some explosive device in the plane. 381 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: That's interesting, Phil because Ron mentions Miss Lily, saying that 382 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: Baker ran to the crash and then ran back to 383 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: put something in his car. 384 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 7: Yeah, Ron takes that, and I do too. 385 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:53,120 Speaker 3: It was evidence that this explosive device was being removed 386 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 3: from the wreckage of the plane. 387 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: So what happened to the plane the wreckage? 388 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,639 Speaker 3: Ron learned that the airplane had been taken to a 389 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:07,120 Speaker 3: small town called Tacoa, It's about thirty miles east of 390 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 3: Cleveland and put in a locked and sealed hangar there 391 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 3: and he agreed to buy it, made a deal to 392 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 3: buy it from the insurance company, but first, he said 393 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 3: he wanted to see it, So he went over there, 394 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 3: cut the lock, walked inside, and the plane was gone 395 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 3: and all that was left was an oil spot on 396 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 3: the floor. 397 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: How did the crash ultimately impact the Lone Star investigation. 398 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 3: Well, it pretty much ended Lamar's gray mail defense in 399 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 3: any case, and that's what everyone else was relying on. 400 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 3: There were about ten other defendants besides Lamar and Ron, 401 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 3: and the other ten eventually made their deals with the 402 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 3: irs with the government. That left Ron. Of course, they 403 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 3: approached him and asked him to be essentially a government witness, 404 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 3: and he said that's not what he wanted to do. 405 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 3: He knew that it would be an endless track from 406 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,959 Speaker 3: one courtroom to the other, him testifying as the government 407 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,439 Speaker 3: wished against other drug dealers, and he said no. He 408 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 3: ended up being convicted and sentenced to twenty years. 409 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 7: In federal prison. 410 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 3: But before he went, he figured he had some unfinished 411 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 3: business with Bobby, that GBI agent who had been on 412 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 3: the scene of the crash almost before the plane hit 413 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 3: the ground. The way Elliott saw it, there's no way 414 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 3: he couldn't have been involved one way or another. 415 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 10: Okay. 416 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 3: I remember hearing that Bobby hung out in what was 417 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 3: a pretty nice bar in Helen. I was about to 418 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 3: start trial then, and I wanted to finish things up 419 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 3: in case I got convicted or maybe killed. He was 420 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 3: alone in the bar. He recognized me when I sat down. 421 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 3: He glared at me and moved over his seat. I 422 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 3: moved over a seat next to him. He told the 423 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 3: barkeeper I didn't want anything. I told her drinks were 424 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 3: on the house and the long man would pick. We 425 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 3: stared at each other, and he told me to leave, 426 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 3: and I said something high class like go fuck yourself, boy. 427 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 3: One thing led to another. People started looking and listening. 428 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 3: I stood up and told him in a loud voice, 429 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 3: to bring his candy ass outside and maybe we could 430 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 3: settle it. He just calmly drew a short barrow three 431 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,919 Speaker 3: point fifty seven from his shoulder, holster, cocked it and 432 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 3: put it in my face. He told me if I 433 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 3: ever spoke to him again, he'd kill me. I said, 434 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 3: in a loud voice, you mean you'll kill again. I 435 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 3: told him the pieces were all in place. It would 436 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 3: be worth my life to have him just go ahead, 437 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 3: with all these people watching, pull the trigger. And then 438 00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 3: I got weak. I thought he was going to do it. 439 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 3: I wanted it to be in my back end of story. 440 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 3: I never saw him again. 441 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: So after that, I take it. Ron Elliott went off 442 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: to prison. 443 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, he wrote about that in his emails too. I 444 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,679 Speaker 3: did fifteen years in twelve different federal prisons in twenty 445 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 3: six county jails. You know what diesel therapy is? 446 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,400 Speaker 1: Quick aside. Diesel therapy refers to a form of punishing 447 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: prisoners with relentless transfers. The term refers to the diesel 448 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,360 Speaker 1: fuel used in prisoner transport vehicles. 449 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 3: I went to prison for something that not only did 450 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,919 Speaker 3: I not do, I didn't even know what happened. The 451 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 3: IRS fully intended to force my cooperation. It was the 452 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 3: IRS we had our problems with, not the DEA or 453 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 3: Customs or certainly the CIA. We had our deals with them. 454 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 3: As long as the money didn't come ashore into the 455 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 3: United States, everything was copasetic. That's where Lamar fucked up. 456 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 3: He started bringing his in country and the IRS wanted 457 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 3: its share. 458 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,679 Speaker 1: If it were the IRS who was making all of 459 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: this trouble for Chester, why couldn't the CIA just get 460 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: the case dropped for whatever reason? National security reason. It's 461 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: not like they hadn't intervened in cases like this before. 462 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, and Ron told me that at one point Morgan 463 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 3: Cherry came to Lamar and told him that he had 464 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 3: tried to get the case dropped, but the IRS wouldn't permit. 465 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: It, which explains why Chester was desperate enough to think 466 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: that the CIA had sent you to help him. 467 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 3: Well, it's hard to know what exactly the secret agency 468 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 3: was thinking at any given moment, but Lamar had made 469 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 3: such a big public fuss about it, although it had 470 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 3: just gone to come out in a couple smaller newspapers 471 00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 3: in the South, that if they had publicly declare that 472 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 3: his case had to be dropped for national security reasons, 473 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 3: they would be admitting to what he had already said, 474 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 3: that he'd flown two hundred loads into the country with 475 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 3: the knowledge of the CIA and DEA. 476 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: So in a way, Chester, opening his mouth so much 477 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: could have pushed himself in a corner. 478 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 7: Yeah. 479 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, he made it impossible for the CIA to help them. 480 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 7: Yeah, he may have overstepped himself. 481 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you this, because Chester kept saying 482 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: that what he had, the information he knew, was going 483 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: to shake the US government to its core. Did you 484 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: ever find out or did Ron Elliott ever have any 485 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: idea of what he claimed was his ace in the hole? 486 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 4: Yeah? 487 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 3: Ron told me that Chester told him that he had 488 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 3: information that the CIA was involved in. 489 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 7: The Tallier murder. 490 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 3: Chileann diplomat who's killed in a car bomb by a 491 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 3: car bomb in Washington, d C. In nineteen seventy three. 492 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 3: Ron didn't ask any more questions about it. Ron said 493 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 3: himself he thought it was pretty far out, even for Chester, 494 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 3: But who knows it might have been true. 495 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 7: I don't know. 496 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: As for C. B. Hackworth, he doesn't believe avoiding a 497 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: crash would have necessarily led to a happier ending for Chester, 498 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: at least in terms of his legal woes. Do you 499 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: think there's a chance that with representation like Bobby Lee Cook, 500 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: he might have beaten the rap had it gone to trial. 501 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 4: It's possible. Federal prosecutors don't indict people that they are 502 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 4: not positive they can convict. There's a whole bunch of 503 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 4: people who get it investigated federally and never prosecuted because 504 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 4: there's not enough evidence. So they feel like they've got 505 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 4: a ton of evidence indict anybody. Their conviction rate is 506 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 4: like ninety nine percent. Could Lamar Chester have been the 507 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 4: one percent that beats them? He had been doing a 508 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 4: pretty good job of putting them on the defensive for 509 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 4: the life of this case and, as it turned out, 510 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 4: for the rest of his life. 511 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 1: But on some level, do you think that he was 512 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: just postponing the inevitable. 513 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 4: I think that may have been reality. My feeling is 514 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,479 Speaker 4: that it was not what was in his mind. I 515 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 4: think what was in his mind was some kind of strategy. 516 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 4: I don't think he intended to be dead. I don't 517 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 4: think he intended to be in jail. I think he 518 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 4: intended somehow to come out on top of that situation. 519 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 4: And no, I really don't think that he planned to 520 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 4: win at trial because of his number one statement that 521 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 4: he would never be allowed to testify. C. B. 522 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: Hackworth remains troubled by an interaction he had with Chester 523 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: shortly before he was killed in that crash. 524 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 7: He was. 525 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 4: Disheveled the last time I saw him. It was at 526 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 4: the farm. He was outside working on a plane. And 527 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,719 Speaker 4: this was well before the crash, at least two weeks 528 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 4: before the crash, but again with the trial approaching, and 529 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 4: he was visibly disheveled, to my way of thinking, and 530 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 4: more so than just from working outside. And for some 531 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 4: reason I cannot remember why, but I do remember i'd 532 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 4: seen him the day before and he was wearing the 533 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 4: same shirt, and that just you know, I worn the 534 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 4: same shirt two days in a row. But I'd never 535 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 4: seen Lamar do it. I remember him as a good dresser. 536 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 4: I have not really been a snappy dresser myself health, 537 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 4: but I know one when I see one. He dressed 538 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 4: well normally. But I thought at the time that, well, 539 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 4: the trials coming up, it may be all these hearings 540 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 4: and everything may be taking a toll on him. And 541 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 4: then in the years since the crash, I've always thought 542 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 4: back to that day and to the fact he was 543 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 4: wearing that same shirt two days in a row. 544 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: Would you ever conceive that he could have been suicidal? 545 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 4: I did consider that, and do consider that. It's one 546 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 4: of the scenarios that I run through my mind every 547 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 4: time I think of this. And there is part of 548 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 4: me that believes that Lamar was narcissistic enough that he 549 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 4: would rather be dead than to have to go to 550 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 4: federal prison. It wasn't merely being confined, it was having 551 00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 4: authority over him. That's what he was resisting this higher time. 552 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 4: So I do think he was afraid of losing. 553 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: Would he have ever put his daughter in harm's way? 554 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:14,400 Speaker 4: Well, I don't believe that Lamar Chester would commit suicide 555 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 4: in a plane crash with his daughter in the plane 556 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 4: with him, so I really tend to rule out suicide. 557 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 1: I traveled with Cebe Hackworth to Cleveland, Georgia in July 558 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: of twenty two, and we spoke to a neighbor who'd 559 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: witnessed the crash nearly four decades ago while farming the 560 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: property adjacent to Chester's. 561 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 5: It was a dramatic crash. 562 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: How old would you have been around the time of the. 563 00:34:52,719 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 5: Crash, Oh, I was probably twenty twenty two something like that. Anyway, 564 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 5: I'd be on tractors and stuff out here in Lamar. 565 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 5: He would, you know, dark down at you with his plane. 566 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 7: He was pretty good. 567 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 5: I mean he would get down closer to the parallet. 568 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 7: He'd kind of scare. 569 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 5: You first if you didn't see him coming, and then 570 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 5: slip up on you like. And it was later this 571 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 5: in the evening, It's probably five thirty six o'clock. Well, 572 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 5: I was on my foreward and we've been hauling his 573 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 5: hay up all evening and he'd been flying around, flying 574 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 5: around that plane, and whenever I come out, it was Gurdo. 575 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,399 Speaker 5: Then when I come out with my forewhether I looked 576 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 5: back up and if you're looking her out toward those rocks, right, 577 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 5: he had that plane like it was just sitting just 578 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 5: like this turned up sideways, I mean completely sideways, and 579 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 5: it was just like sitting there. And if I watched 580 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 5: it for ten more seconds, I'd probably say to go down. 581 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 7: And it was like just sitting there. And then a 582 00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 7: hour or two later we. 583 00:35:58,640 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 5: Found out he cracks. 584 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,280 Speaker 7: That was the crowd shift, but he had that plane 585 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:03,800 Speaker 7: turned up this. 586 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,879 Speaker 5: I mean, he was just barely moving and that's where 587 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 5: he crashed, right. He crashed on this side of the 588 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 5: main driveway going into the rock Quarrier. Sometimes there's aro 589 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 5: pockets up that hollow, and I wonder if he got 590 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 5: in an iron pocket the way he had it laid 591 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 5: up and it just went straight down. 592 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:23,760 Speaker 9: But then. 593 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,479 Speaker 5: He told us this two weeks before that. The next 594 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 5: week he was going to testify before the grand jury 595 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 5: or something in Gamesville about drugs, trafficking drugs or something. 596 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 5: He was going to testify the week or two before 597 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 5: he did say he was gonna bring some people down. 598 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,240 Speaker 5: You know, I can't I ain't got it only recording 599 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 5: or anything. But I do remember him saying that I 600 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 5: don't know what all that was about. But it was 601 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 5: so strange that the first person on the scene was 602 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,840 Speaker 5: the top GBI man. I mean that is strange. 603 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,720 Speaker 1: What was the take pretty much after the plane crash? 604 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: Do people have different theories? 605 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 5: You know, a small town like is the's always rumors, 606 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 5: you know, but they never found, no gunshots, no nothing. 607 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 7: You know. 608 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 5: Someone said he committed suicide, but he thought too much 609 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,239 Speaker 5: of that daughter to have done that. He thought way 610 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 5: too much of that daughter to have even considered doing that. 611 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:26,280 Speaker 4: That's how I always felt. 612 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 1: The sprawling property Chester named My Goal Farm has now 613 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,360 Speaker 1: been divided, but still sports an impressive amount of land 614 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: and the imposing a frame estate he built. After a 615 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,279 Speaker 1: series of subsequent owners, the Cleveland compound was willed to 616 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,840 Speaker 1: a church and is now a religious retreat. 617 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 5: All this is documented as church land. Now never be, 618 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 5: no more taxes paid on it, never be, no more 619 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:56,879 Speaker 5: taxes paid. Just puts more burden on those Redgord taxpayers. 620 00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: Exactly oddly fitting in that there was the driving force 621 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: behind Operation Lone Star. But all these years later, Chester 622 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,399 Speaker 1: and the crash are still salacious talk in this small town, 623 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 1: and not in any small part due to the salatious 624 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: talk of the man himself, well you. 625 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,759 Speaker 5: Know small towns. Whenever he first bought this rumors out, 626 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,720 Speaker 5: and you know, he was probably a druge man. But 627 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:25,720 Speaker 5: when he come, he spent a lot of money up here. 628 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 7: When he first come, he spent a lot of money. 629 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,879 Speaker 5: And sometimes he would get to brag in a little bit, 630 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,360 Speaker 5: you know, and he'd tell me there was four or 631 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,760 Speaker 5: five different places to e land down are in Columbia. 632 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,879 Speaker 5: That was the only place he'd land. Said he worked 633 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:44,320 Speaker 5: for the CIA one time. That's where he learnes his connections. 634 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,600 Speaker 5: And the only other thing he bragged about is when 635 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,080 Speaker 5: Reagan was making a speech in Miami, that he was 636 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:51,919 Speaker 5: flying over the top of him. He could have dropped 637 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,760 Speaker 5: the package right in on the podium. 638 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 1: But it's hard to stress just how out of the 639 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 1: realm of reality all of this would have seemed at 640 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:02,840 Speaker 1: the time. Here's Phil Stamford. 641 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 3: Lamar was killed in June of nineteen eighty five. The 642 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:15,240 Speaker 3: public was really not aware of any of the guns 643 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,759 Speaker 3: for drug business that our government was involved in in 644 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 3: Central America. Of course, in nineteen seventy two, Alfred McCoy, 645 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 3: who's now recognized as the authority on the subject. He's 646 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 3: a professor at the University of Wisconsin, wrote in his 647 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,839 Speaker 3: book Politics of heroin in Southeast Asia, about the CIA's 648 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 3: involvement with drug lords in Laos and in Vietnam and 649 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,360 Speaker 3: in the Far East. But even that was sort of 650 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 3: dangerous knowledge. It wasn't acknowledged by the proper people in 651 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 3: the proper newspapers. More than a year after Lamar's plane 652 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 3: went down, a plane delivering weapons, they're being kicked out 653 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 3: of the play boxes, tied to parachutes over Nicaragua. I 654 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 3: think it was got shot down, and the surviving crew member, 655 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:12,719 Speaker 3: Hasenfuss was captured and he went public saying, yeah, it 656 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:14,959 Speaker 3: was a CIA operation, and that made the news. 657 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 7: Of course, it couldn't be avoided. 658 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 3: John Kerry in the Senate held hearings on the Iran 659 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 3: contract matter. But you have to remember that when Lamar 660 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 3: was killed, which I think he was, it was a deep, 661 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:28,800 Speaker 3: dark secret. 662 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 1: Gosh, had Lamar Chester stretched his life, you know, his 663 00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:39,880 Speaker 1: legal proceedings a few years, it would have had a 664 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:41,280 Speaker 1: very different ending. Probably. 665 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:42,800 Speaker 7: Yeah. 666 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 3: But when the crash occurred in June of eighty five, 667 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 3: and the New York Times wrote a piece about how 668 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 3: this indicted drug smuggler was killed in a plane crash, 669 00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 3: they somehow did not mention his claims that he did 670 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:03,440 Speaker 3: it for the CIA. 671 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 1: But given what has now been exposed, acknowledged, and proven, 672 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:13,399 Speaker 1: Chester's claims are less far fetched today than they were 673 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 1: forty years ago. Documentarian and authority on national security and 674 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 1: intelligence Joseph Trento has been covering the CIA for decades 675 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:26,000 Speaker 1: and has written multiple books on the subject, including The 676 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,800 Speaker 1: Secret History of the CIA and Prelude to Terror. The 677 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,760 Speaker 1: Rogue CIA and the Legacy of America's Private Intelligence Network 678 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 1: both cover the CIA's very documented involvement with overseas drug trafficking. 679 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 6: Well, this goes back a long way, but really it 680 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,359 Speaker 6: reached its height in the sixties and seventies when we 681 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 6: were using drugs to fund things that Congress won't approve. 682 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,680 Speaker 10: When Congress went to approve money for certain CI operations, 683 00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,239 Speaker 10: and it's not the Congress to know about it. 684 00:41:58,239 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 6: It was sort of done as a wink in and 685 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:03,319 Speaker 6: ie where the CIA would work with drug dealers, would 686 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,400 Speaker 6: work with even law enforcement. 687 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,160 Speaker 10: And allow especially in Asia. 688 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:11,120 Speaker 6: Particularly in Vietnam, where we were funding operations using drug 689 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 6: money and using drugs, and that's how we paid the 690 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,120 Speaker 6: gorillas to do various workforce and then it reached its 691 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:21,680 Speaker 6: awful height in Central America when we were funding Commander zero. 692 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,560 Speaker 6: Commander Zero was a character who was fighting a war 693 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,160 Speaker 6: in Nicaragua force in order to get arms in order 694 00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,800 Speaker 6: to pay form the CIUS drug dealers. 695 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,319 Speaker 10: This was notorious because. 696 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,600 Speaker 6: It had been written about and people had done movies 697 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:37,000 Speaker 6: about it. 698 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,600 Speaker 10: But we'd hire freelancers to fly planes back. 699 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,520 Speaker 11: And forth to Central America to bring the drugs, deliver 700 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 11: the drugs in the United States or along the border, 701 00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,160 Speaker 11: and it was one of the ugliest parts of the 702 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,360 Speaker 11: CIS role in the sort of activity. 703 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:56,000 Speaker 1: Trento also contends that this sort of illsted activity wouldn't 704 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,200 Speaker 1: have been privy to other government agencies or law enforcement 705 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 1: actually during the years were covering. 706 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:02,799 Speaker 10: It's very true. 707 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,440 Speaker 6: For example, the DEA was going absolutely out of its 708 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,000 Speaker 6: mind trying to control drugs coming into Miami in other areas, 709 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,280 Speaker 6: but they were well aware that the agency was involved 710 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,000 Speaker 6: in this activity and there was nothing they could do 711 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 6: about it. I mean, the show Narcos on Netflix, that 712 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,920 Speaker 6: whole very sad story of how the narcotic trafficking went 713 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,680 Speaker 6: in the eighties and nineties was absolutely accurate. 714 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:28,279 Speaker 10: That's how it went down. 715 00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:33,360 Speaker 1: So what was the CIA doing in particular in terms 716 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:37,759 Speaker 1: of the nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties. That sticks out 717 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:39,720 Speaker 1: to you. In terms of Latin. 718 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,080 Speaker 6: America, this was a big area. I mean, this was 719 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,960 Speaker 6: Chile seventy three. We were trying to overthrow. 720 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:46,880 Speaker 10: Aliende that time period. 721 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 6: We were doing stuff all over Latin America, trying to 722 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:54,440 Speaker 6: install our own people, working with Noriega. At this point, 723 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,520 Speaker 6: Therego is one of ours, and he was controlling the 724 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,920 Speaker 6: drug trade in Central America. The Agency was in business 725 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,120 Speaker 6: with these guys. They thought it was to their advantage. 726 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:06,080 Speaker 6: Turned out not to be in the end, but they 727 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,080 Speaker 6: thought it was. They worked with dictators like the head 728 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:13,080 Speaker 6: of Nicarago, who was this awful guy who was completely 729 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,560 Speaker 6: controlled by the Agency, but he was just destroying his country. 730 00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:22,279 Speaker 1: It's interesting with Nicaragua because Lamar Chester, who was the 731 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:28,920 Speaker 1: former Eastern Airlines pilot and self acknowledged dope smuggler, he 732 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:33,359 Speaker 1: claimed the two had been running guns into Nicaragua in 733 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:34,200 Speaker 1: the seventies. 734 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,919 Speaker 6: That makes sense, that makes but remember who we were 735 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 6: backing in the seventies, who was in charge of Nicaragua 736 00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,279 Speaker 6: in the nineteen Seventiesmosa. 737 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:49,440 Speaker 1: Chester also claimed to have flown his son into Miami 738 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:50,480 Speaker 1: and back out. 739 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:51,640 Speaker 10: Now that makes sense. 740 00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:53,840 Speaker 6: Let me tell you about so Mosa used to come 741 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:57,800 Speaker 6: into Miami constantly and get drunk and pick up women. 742 00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,480 Speaker 6: I mean he was notorious. That kind of thing does 743 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:03,960 Speaker 6: make sense. I think I wrote about that one of 744 00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:08,680 Speaker 6: my books. Actually, Simos was notorious. They all love coming 745 00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 6: to Miami. I mean, that was the big thing. And 746 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,440 Speaker 6: what would happen is the CIA people here would entertain 747 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 6: him when they were visiting. Sometimes a chief of operations 748 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,399 Speaker 6: or even the director of the CI would come down 749 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,560 Speaker 6: and have a drink or dinner with him, had him 750 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 6: on the head for being cooperative. That was not unusual. 751 00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:26,960 Speaker 7: Wow. 752 00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:32,480 Speaker 1: Lamar Chester mounted a gray mail defense when he was indicted, 753 00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:37,680 Speaker 1: claimed that he had been flying missions for the CIA 754 00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,799 Speaker 1: into Nicaragua in nineteen seventy four. 755 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,920 Speaker 6: Right, I understand, and I have no doubt that he did. 756 00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,200 Speaker 6: What I do doubt is that he was doing it 757 00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,120 Speaker 6: directly for the CIA. My guess is, what was the 758 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:49,560 Speaker 6: guy's name? 759 00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,120 Speaker 1: Morgan, Morgan, Cherry, Morgan Cherry. 760 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,920 Speaker 6: I tried to find that name do some research on 761 00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:57,960 Speaker 6: it after you sent me the email, and I have 762 00:45:58,080 --> 00:45:58,479 Speaker 6: not been. 763 00:45:58,400 --> 00:45:59,640 Speaker 10: Able to find him. 764 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 6: My guess is he, unfortunately probably did not know who 765 00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:04,719 Speaker 6: he was actually dealing with. 766 00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:10,480 Speaker 1: He didn't. The thought that Chester wasn't exactly sure who 767 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:15,280 Speaker 1: his connection actually was does align with his mistaken belief 768 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:19,080 Speaker 1: that Phil Stanford was a CIA operative and would have 769 00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:20,720 Speaker 1: weakened his graymal defense. 770 00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:23,919 Speaker 10: When did he make the defense? When did you first 771 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:24,719 Speaker 10: go to public with us? 772 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,520 Speaker 1: Nineteen eighty two, eighty three, eighty. 773 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:28,920 Speaker 10: Yeah, he was. 774 00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,600 Speaker 6: That would have been early on because Iran Contra really 775 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:33,960 Speaker 6: broke after that. The way you use gray mill by 776 00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:35,759 Speaker 6: the ways you threaten. If they were threatened to bring 777 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,320 Speaker 6: in a diabete, threat to expose it like playing poker. 778 00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:42,040 Speaker 6: But it's not done through lawyers. It's done in other words. 779 00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:44,520 Speaker 6: He'll say to the FBI said, I need to see 780 00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:46,920 Speaker 6: your boss, and then once the boss got in there, 781 00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:48,680 Speaker 6: then he'd say, you know, you really want to do this. 782 00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,600 Speaker 6: So greymeal does work, but you really have to have 783 00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:53,480 Speaker 6: the goods. 784 00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:53,680 Speaker 10: For a tour. 785 00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:56,880 Speaker 1: I think that he overplayed his hand. 786 00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:59,560 Speaker 10: That's what I think he I think they got tired 787 00:46:59,600 --> 00:46:59,960 Speaker 10: of him. 788 00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,960 Speaker 1: Yes, and he was very loud, very vocal, very public. 789 00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:08,239 Speaker 6: Let's not you do that, you absolutely destroy any chance 790 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,600 Speaker 6: you have of actually getting something for your gray maya. 791 00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:13,160 Speaker 10: That's the problem. With that, I mean you kind of 792 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:14,960 Speaker 10: do it quietly. You got to handle it. 793 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,560 Speaker 6: Because people are afraid of you, and you've got to 794 00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:18,520 Speaker 6: keep that fear up. 795 00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:19,520 Speaker 11: Yeah. 796 00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,920 Speaker 1: I think that he kind of realized that he didn't 797 00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,399 Speaker 1: know who to call, and they stopped calling him. So 798 00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:31,720 Speaker 1: he started giving very public interviews to people like Forrest Sawyer, 799 00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:39,440 Speaker 1: and in one interview for Georgia Station, he bragged that 800 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:46,040 Speaker 1: he had flown over Reagan giving a speech and could 801 00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:50,840 Speaker 1: have dumped a bail of marijuana and had it land 802 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:51,600 Speaker 1: at his feet. 803 00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,120 Speaker 10: Well, Lenny was just out of control, it sounds. 804 00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:59,560 Speaker 1: Like, yeah, which would back to what you were saying. 805 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,120 Speaker 1: He was probably panicked at that point that he didn't 806 00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:08,600 Speaker 1: have any protection and that he had alienated any chance 807 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,840 Speaker 1: of having it. So thought if he made a public 808 00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:12,879 Speaker 1: enough stink. 809 00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:16,680 Speaker 10: Right, I think he thought he knew something that was valuable. 810 00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:20,560 Speaker 10: It was less valuable than he thought it was, and. 811 00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,879 Speaker 6: He never knew who really recruited him, which was quite 812 00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:24,719 Speaker 6: common by the way. 813 00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:31,560 Speaker 1: So in terms of the basic broad stroke outline of 814 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:35,040 Speaker 1: this of having a former airlines pilot claim that he 815 00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:36,719 Speaker 1: had been approached and. 816 00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:41,400 Speaker 10: Absolutely absolutely credible. That's credible. All that makes absolute sense. 817 00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:45,560 Speaker 1: Which leads us back to the mysterious Morgan Cherry, a 818 00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:49,600 Speaker 1: man Chester claimed first approached him in an Atlanta airport. 819 00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:55,160 Speaker 1: Chester claimed when he testified at the inquiry in the 820 00:48:55,200 --> 00:49:00,800 Speaker 1: Bahamas after the nineteen eighty three Brian Roster Port aired 821 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:05,319 Speaker 1: they put together that inquiry. Morgan Cherry's name comes up 822 00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:11,160 Speaker 1: in the inquiry where Flee Bailey is questioning, and Chester 823 00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:19,840 Speaker 1: claimed that Morgan Cherry told him that he was the informant, Cherry. 824 00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:24,040 Speaker 10: Claiming to be a person who the agency broadcast to get. 825 00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:31,080 Speaker 1: It was clients were profit by an investigation. Did anything 826 00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,439 Speaker 1: strike you as interesting in what you had the chance 827 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:37,600 Speaker 1: to scan in terms of the Bahamas and peddling, Well. 828 00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:41,040 Speaker 6: Pendling worked for the agency and Mike Yes, is what 829 00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,240 Speaker 6: happened for us. He started working for some other drug dealers. 830 00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,400 Speaker 6: The money was too good and the agency didn't want 831 00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:49,240 Speaker 6: to deal. 832 00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:49,719 Speaker 7: With them anymore. 833 00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:52,680 Speaker 6: I mean it really had the ring of just wanting 834 00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:53,520 Speaker 6: to get rid of him. 835 00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:54,600 Speaker 10: He was just too public. 836 00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,000 Speaker 1: That's exactly what my take. 837 00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,720 Speaker 6: Yeah, you're right, and that lawyer, by the way, Nigel 838 00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:02,239 Speaker 6: bow elbame what a. 839 00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,480 Speaker 10: Piece of francis Nigel bow I looked him up, What 840 00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:05,600 Speaker 10: a piece of work, he was. 841 00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:10,520 Speaker 6: I mean, look, all the money lining the agency did 842 00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:13,640 Speaker 6: was all all in the region of the Bahamas and 843 00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:15,800 Speaker 6: the Caicos and so forth. 844 00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:18,840 Speaker 10: This is where we set up all these offshore accouncils. 845 00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,160 Speaker 10: If I were you, I really focus on the Morgan 846 00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:21,960 Speaker 10: Cherry stuff. 847 00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:29,440 Speaker 1: On the final episode of Murder Miami, Clay Williams files 848 00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:30,080 Speaker 1: are found. 849 00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,640 Speaker 5: It gives the horrifying look of a torstal that has 850 00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,320 Speaker 5: been mutilated by alligators. 851 00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:39,239 Speaker 1: And the legacy of Lamar Chester continues to reverberate. 852 00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:42,880 Speaker 7: It was down in kay Largo that Lamar shows up. 853 00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:46,360 Speaker 1: Ending in a surprising twist for all involved. 854 00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:47,480 Speaker 10: What a Rat? 855 00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:49,120 Speaker 9: What a Rat? 856 00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:55,400 Speaker 1: Murder Miami is a production of iHeartRadio. Executive producers are 857 00:50:55,440 --> 00:51:00,120 Speaker 1: Lauren Brai Pacheco, Taylor Chicogne, and Bill Stanford. Written by 858 00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,919 Speaker 1: Phil Stamford and Lauren Bright Pacheco, Audio editing and sound 859 00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:08,240 Speaker 1: designed by Nicholas Harder, Evan Tyre and Taylor Chaqoyne, featuring 860 00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:13,680 Speaker 1: music by Evan Tyre, Phil Mayer, John Murchison and Taylor Chaqoine. 861 00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:18,200 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 862 00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,840 Speaker 1: or wherever you get the stories. That move you