1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to today's edition of The Clay Travis and Buck 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: Sexton Show podcast. 3 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 2: Welcome back in the final hour of the week, fourteen 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 2: hours up, fifteenth hour beginning now. I hope all of 5 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 2: you are having a good Friday so far. Open phone 6 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 2: lines eight hundred and two eight two two eight eight 7 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 2: to two. Buck is out today. He'll be back with 8 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 2: me on Monday, and we'll be breaking down the continued 9 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 2: battle over who's going to be the Speaker of the House. 10 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 2: I think it's going to end up being Jim Jordan, 11 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 2: who has been endorsed by Donald Trump. It appears Donald 12 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 2: Trump is not going to be involved very much, at 13 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 2: least right now in the speaker battle. Jim Jordan and 14 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: Scalise are going right now to be the two contestants 15 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 2: contenders for that job. We talked a lot in the 16 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 2: second hour with Chip Roy, congressman from Texas, who put 17 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 2: into context what he expected that battle to be like. 18 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 2: And I would encourage you, as always to go download 19 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 2: the podcast, make sure you don't miss a moment, and 20 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 2: you can ensure that you can take the show with 21 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 2: you anywhere in the country or around the world. Tens 22 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 2: of millions of you downloading it. You get a lot 23 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 2: of unique access on that podcast as well, including both 24 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 2: Carol Markowitz and Tutor Dixon who are part of the 25 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 2: Clay and Buck podcast network. There are going to be 26 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 2: additional members of that podcast network in the days of 27 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 2: the weeks and months ahead, and I think you were 28 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 2: going to enjoy all of that content. So go ahead 29 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 2: and sign up. 30 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 3: It's free. You can do it on any podcast company. 31 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 2: Also, always want to tell you the iHeartRadio apps pretty fantastic. 32 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 2: You can listen to this show straight from the app 33 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 2: anywhere in the country around the world as well. Okay, 34 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 2: so we started off the show talking about this crazy 35 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 2: story out of Michigan where Michigan State head coach Mel 36 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 2: Tucker has been fired despite the fact that he was 37 00:01:55,280 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 2: engaged in a consensual relationship, did nothing improper. All that 38 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 2: can be alleged is that he engaged in phone sex 39 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: once in a thirty six minute phone call. That a 40 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 2: lot of you still want to weigh in on, and 41 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 2: we're going to take some calls from you guys on that. 42 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 2: But as we went to break, I teased that there 43 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 2: hasn't been a lot of discussion about the motion that 44 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 2: Donald Trump has filed in Washington d C. Arguing that 45 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: he has essentially presidential immunity from any of the charges 46 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 2: that are being brought by Jack Smith alleging that he 47 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 2: is responsible for January sixth related incidents. Now, I'm going 48 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 2: to try to simplify this. I'll also allow anybody who 49 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 2: wants to weigh in to make arguments or ask questions 50 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 2: about this. I went and I read this motion. I 51 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 2: actually think Trump's going to win on this motion. Now 52 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 2: I understand what are we sitting at here right now 53 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: October sixth. Trump is scheduled to begin trial in March. 54 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 2: This is I think maybe the most significant legal filing 55 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 2: that we have seen so far from Trump's attorneys in 56 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 2: this case. And essentially what they are arguing is that 57 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 2: Supreme Court president has been established in civil cases that 58 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 2: presidents can't be sued for presidential related activities in a 59 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 2: civil manner. Now, let me try to simplify this as 60 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 2: best I can. Richard Nixon obviously resigned as president of 61 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 2: the United States, and there was a question as to 62 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 2: whether Nixon could be held civilly liable for his behavior 63 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 2: as president of the United States, and the Supreme Court 64 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 2: said no. Trump is now arguing and let me explain 65 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 2: sort of the rationale why that would have existed as 66 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 2: it did if you are engaged in the work as 67 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 2: president of the United States. For you to be civilly 68 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 2: liable for the decisions that you made as president of 69 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 2: the United States would open an absolute Pandora's box. You 70 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 2: may think that Joe Biden is making disastrous decisions at 71 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 2: the border. 72 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 3: I do. 73 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 2: But if suddenly you could sue and bankrupt Joe Biden 74 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 2: because you disagree with the choices that he is making 75 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 2: as President of the United States having to do with 76 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 2: the border, or student loan relief or any other thing. 77 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 2: You can disagree with him, but those are political decisions, 78 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 2: and the job of the President of the United States 79 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 2: is to constantly be making political decisions. If you believe, 80 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 2: and this is why I always say precedent's important. If 81 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 2: you believe that Donald Trump shouldn't build a wall, you 82 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 2: shouldn't be able to be ankrupt Donald Trump by suing him, 83 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 2: because his political imperative is to try to build more 84 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 2: walls at the border, right whatever side. I'm just using 85 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 2: the border as an example because it's a contentious issue 86 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 2: right now in the political realm. But the Supreme Court 87 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 2: has said, hey, you shouldn't be able to bankrupt Joe 88 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 2: Biden over the decisions he makes at the border or 89 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 2: Donald Trump at the decisions he makes at the border. 90 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 2: Democrat Republican. That's the job of the president. And I 91 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 2: think all of you out there can understand that. You 92 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,359 Speaker 2: would say, oh, yeah, makes total sense. The president of 93 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 2: the United States has to decide lots of contentious issues. 94 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: The idea that he would be civilly liable for the 95 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 2: political decisions that he's making as president of the United States, 96 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 2: that's a really bad president to set, which is why again, 97 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 2: Richard Nixon wasn't able to be sued in a civil 98 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 2: context for the decisions he made relating to his presidential office. 99 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 3: It's never been tested in a criminal court before, for. 100 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 2: Because we have never seen a president charged with a 101 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 2: criminal violation like Trump is being charged with. 102 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 3: Reading it. I actually think Trump's lawyers are one hundred 103 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 3: percent right here. 104 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 2: I think as a if you followed the president again 105 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 2: to explain to everybody, civil is money right as a 106 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 2: general rule, if you're filing a civil lawsuit and you're 107 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 2: suing someone, you're typically trying to get monetary damages in 108 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 2: some way that's simplifying it, but most of the time 109 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 2: that's what's being sought. So civil penalties are typically money. 110 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 2: Criminal penalties are, hey, we're trying to put you in 111 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 2: prison or we're trying to restrict your freedoms in some way, 112 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 2: typically not dollar wise. And the easiest way to describe 113 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 2: this is OJ Simpson. All of you remember not guilty 114 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:58,799 Speaker 2: in a criminal court of the murder of Nicole Brown 115 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 2: Simpson and of Ronald Goldman, the waiter who came to 116 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 2: the home that night. Even though I think the evidence supports, 117 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 2: as many of you do, that OJ Simpson was guilty 118 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 2: of murder, the jury in LA said he's not guilty 119 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 2: beyond a reasonable doubt, and so OJ Simpson to this 120 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 2: day remains free. 121 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 3: But he was then sued. 122 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 2: As a wrongful death lawsuit civilly and found responsible. The 123 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 2: standards are different in those courts. Beyond a reasonable doubt 124 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 2: in the in the criminal context, preponderance of the evidence 125 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 2: in a civil context. But OJ was effectively bankrupted by 126 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 2: the civil judgment. They took all of his possessions, they 127 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 2: sold them. Now the challenge and you're like, well, how 128 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 2: does OJ have time to play golf and everything else. 129 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 2: He can't touch his pension as a part of that settlement, 130 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 2: so he's still OJ's still getting his NFL pension, but 131 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 2: he basically has to spend every dollar every year or 132 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 2: else that money, if he had assets that he was 133 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 2: building up, would go to his creditors, the Nicole Brown 134 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 2: Simpson and the Ronald Goldman family because OJ was found 135 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 2: not criminally liable but civilly liable for wrongful death. 136 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 3: Okay. 137 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 2: The reason why I bring that up is the civil 138 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 2: decision is not one hundred percent precedent for. 139 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 3: The criminal decision, but it's pretty compelling. 140 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 2: I think that a court that looks at that Nixon 141 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 2: civil precedent will be hard pressed to argue that Trump 142 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 2: was not acting within his presidential duties while he was 143 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 2: in office relating to everything surrounding to January sixth. I 144 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 2: think that's an incredibly compelling argument. But why does it matter? 145 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 3: You might say, Well, I imagine that. 146 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 2: The lower circuits, because they are likely to be made 147 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 2: up of Democrats, might disagree with that opinion. But eventually 148 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 2: that's going to reach the Supreme Court, and I think 149 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 2: the Supreme Court is likely to set the precedent that 150 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 2: trying to put presidents in prison for political decisions that 151 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 2: they make while they're in office is not permitted. I 152 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 2: think there's a decent chance that this Jack Smith case 153 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 2: could end up Nolan void based on the argument that 154 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,079 Speaker 2: the Trump people are making in this case. At a minimum, 155 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 2: it may very well forestall the case even starting as 156 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 2: the appellate process works its way through the court, because 157 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 2: I would argue, for you, you can't try this case 158 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 2: until you've determined whether the case could even be brought 159 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 2: in the first place. Now, this may not implicate it 160 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 2: would implicate Atlanta as well, by the way, because that's 161 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 2: basically a similar version of the case that's being brought 162 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 2: in in DC. It wouldn't necessary implicate the book keeping 163 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 2: case in New York City, although I think that's a 164 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 2: garbage case. And it might not necessarily implicate all of 165 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 2: the case in South Florida because that case still relies 166 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 2: to some extent on the fact that Trump was argued 167 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 2: to have possession of documents and not have been entitled 168 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 2: to have possession of those documents after he was president 169 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 2: of the United States. Now, the Trump people would still argue, well, 170 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 2: the president should apply to the post presidency too. That's 171 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 2: a more challenging decision to me. But all of the 172 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:39,839 Speaker 2: Jack Smith issues directly implicate Trump while he was still 173 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 2: in presidential office, and I think the president of that 174 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 2: being under presidential powers is actually a compelling one based 175 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 2: on the case that the Trump team has just made 176 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 2: an emotion that they filed in Washington, DC. I don't 177 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 2: know that very many people are going to talk about it. 178 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 2: I went through the New York Times this morning. They 179 00:10:58,040 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 2: didn't have to unless I missed it in the pay 180 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,679 Speaker 2: this morning. I didn't see a single article about it. 181 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 2: It was buried on page seven or eight of the 182 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 2: Wall Street Journal today. I actually think this is a 183 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 2: fairly significant legal argument that Trump has made that has 184 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:19,439 Speaker 2: a decent chance of being the law when or if 185 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 2: this gets to the Supreme Court. So I think that's 186 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 2: worth paying attention to in a big way because I 187 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 2: think it could go directly to whether this case in 188 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 2: March is able to be adjudicated before we actually get. 189 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 3: To the election in twenty twenty four. Again, it would. 190 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 2: Implicate Atlanta, it would potentially implicate South Florida less so 191 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,839 Speaker 2: would not necessarily be implicated by the New York City case. 192 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 2: But I'm not hearing very many people talk about it. 193 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 2: I think it is a very compelling argument that the 194 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 2: Trump team has made on that particular case. All Right, 195 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 2: we come back. DeSantis is going after Trump. I'll play 196 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 2: some of that audio for you directly. He's taken off 197 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 2: the gloves. I told you that I would update you 198 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 2: on that. Also, we'll continue to take some of your 199 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 2: calls to close out the rest of the hour and 200 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 2: take us into the weekend. I appreciate all of you 201 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 2: who are hanging out with us as we are continuing 202 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 2: to roll throughout the course of the program, But I 203 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 2: want to tell you as we had to break here 204 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 2: and get ready for a lot of your calls and 205 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 2: more of the DeSantis versus Trump battle. Start earning how 206 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 2: yield returns in a low yield market. 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The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. 223 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 2: Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. 224 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 3: I hope all of you are having fantastic. 225 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 2: Parts of your Friday so far that you've spent hanging 226 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 2: out with us, and if y'all have fantastic weekends as 227 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 2: you roll into that weekend. Rona Santis starting to take 228 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 2: the gloves off as it pertains to his battle with 229 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 2: Donald Trump. I wanted to play a couple of these 230 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 2: cuts just so you're aware that at least in the 231 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 2: DeSantis camp, they are convinced that they can still win 232 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,839 Speaker 2: this election. We're sitting here basically one hundred days out 233 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 2: from the Iowa caucuses, and Trump has been by the way, 234 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 2: we haven't even talked about it this week, but Trump 235 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 2: has been going after Nicky Haley, who he's calling a 236 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 2: bird brain if I'm not mistaken, And I believe they 237 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 2: even took a bird cage and put it outside of 238 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 2: Nicky Haley's hotel room as that battle has. 239 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 3: Been going on. 240 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 2: But DeSantis, as a part of cut one here says 241 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 2: nobody voted for Biden. 242 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 3: They voted against Trump. Cut one. 243 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 4: People will act like twenty twenty, They're like, you know, 244 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 4: Biden was such a disaster. But here's the thing, I 245 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 4: don't think. I don't think anybody voted for Biden. Okay, 246 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 4: they were voting against Trump. That was why they did it. 247 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 4: I mean, let's just be honest. He energized Democrats. You 248 00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 4: could have John Kennedy walk through the door right now 249 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 4: and he wouldn't energize Democrats as much as Donald Trump does. 250 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 3: That's just the reality. 251 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 2: Okay, So that is one argument. I do think there's 252 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 2: a lot of truth. I mean, Joe Biden has no 253 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 2: support We've talked about on this show. Does anybody ever 254 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 2: wear a Biden hat, You ever see anybody with a 255 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 2: Biden T shirt. People weren't for Biden, they were against Trump. 256 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 2: And that's my concern in the twenty twenty four election 257 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 2: is that it's impossible to defend what Joe Biden's done. 258 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 2: He's been the worst president in any of our lives. 259 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 2: But are there enough people that are anti Trump that 260 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 2: they would show up to vote against Trump again? 261 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 3: Not for Biden, against Trump? 262 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 2: And Desantas also continued and said that the look, Trump's 263 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 2: not filling stadiums anymore. 264 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 3: I support you, but how are you going to get 265 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 3: the votes? 266 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 4: Not anymore? 267 00:15:58,080 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 3: Not anymore. 268 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, So here's thing like, how do you actually win? 269 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 4: And we you know, we won the best election that 270 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 4: any Republican governor candidate has ever done in the history 271 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 4: of Florida. 272 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 2: So the question is going to be and this is 273 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 2: this has always been the delicate dance that everybody has 274 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 2: has tried to the needle that everybody's trying to thread 275 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 2: in order to beat Trump. I think you have to 276 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 2: directly attack Trump, whether you're Nicky Haley, whether you are 277 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 2: Ron DeSantis, whether you are Tim Scott, any of these guys. 278 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 2: The challenge is you have to attack Trump while not 279 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 2: turning off people who voted for Trump, and that, to 280 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 2: be fair, is the line and the needle that nobody 281 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 2: has been willing or able to thread. And I think 282 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 2: looking at one hundred days out, DeSantis is now saying 283 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 2: I'm just going to go directly after him and see 284 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 2: whether or not those blows land, which is why I 285 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 2: said the are now off. Trump obviously has been going 286 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 2: after DeSantis since for months before DeSantis ever even entered 287 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 2: the race, and those attacks were effective, and we should 288 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 2: mention by the way, Trump raised forty five million dollars 289 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 2: in the most recent quarter. DeSantis raised fifteen million. I 290 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 2: haven't seen anybody else's fundraising numbers, but the fundraising dollars 291 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 2: are what allows the campaigns to continue. 292 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 3: Now, is going after Donald. 293 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 2: Trump in direct attacks going to register as a viable 294 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 2: way to beat. 295 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 3: Trump in Iowa? 296 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 2: I think we're going to find out, because I would 297 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 2: expect that at this point the DeSantis strategy, and I 298 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 2: think to a certain extent that Nicky Haley's strategy too, 299 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 2: is going to be We're gonna get in the ring 300 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 2: and we're just going to start throwing punches as hard 301 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 2: as we can at Trump and see whether or not 302 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 2: they land, because Trump certainly has been throwing punches at 303 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 2: these guys for a long time, but they were trying 304 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 2: not to alienate his support and try to make an 305 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 2: argument for why you should support them instead. And now 306 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 2: I think they're just all acknowledging. In order to beat Trump, 307 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 2: you're gonna have to got step right up to them 308 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 2: and start throwing punches. If you do anything on the 309 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 2: web these days, you need to set yourself up with 310 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 2: online identity theft protection. Every time you make a purchase, 311 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 2: you're putting your personal info out there on a database 312 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 2: easy targets for cyber hackers. 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We're rolling through 330 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 3: the program. 331 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 2: You might have heard at the end of the first hour, 332 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 2: we were having a discussion about the mel Tucker situation 333 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 2: in Michigan State, and my argument was, I can't believe 334 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 2: this isn't receiving more attention than it is. And we 335 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 2: had a rape survivor, Danielle Tudor, who does a lot 336 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 2: of sexual assault advocacy all over the country call in 337 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 2: to discuss We finished off the first hour. She wasn't 338 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 2: able to finish her story, So Danielle, appreciate you calling 339 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 2: back in. I wanted to make sure that we got 340 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 2: an opportunity for you to talk to this audience. It appears, 341 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 2: based on the text messages from Brenda Tracy that she 342 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 2: has been lying about some many I would even say 343 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,880 Speaker 2: aspects of the story that she has told surrounding Mel 344 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 2: Tucker and you set out a message to the show, 345 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 2: and you said, as someone who works in rape advocacy, 346 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 2: who is a sexual assault survivor yourself, that one of 347 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 2: the worst things that can happen out there is for 348 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 2: women to lie about being victims. It's a small percentage 349 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 2: of the overall numbers out there, but it has a 350 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,199 Speaker 2: large reach because it calls into question others. What have 351 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 2: you seen in your experience about advocating for women as 352 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 2: it pertains to falsehoods, which are a small percentage, But 353 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 2: what the impact is a lot of women don't get 354 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 2: believed because of some women who lie. 355 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 5: Right you know. 356 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 6: You know, the court of public opinion unfortunately, can be 357 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 6: really brutal for sexual assault or rape victim And unfortunately, 358 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 6: I think that's probably one of the biggest reasons that 359 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 6: someone won't come forward, is because then there's all these 360 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 6: questions that are asked. So certainly I'm saddened by you know, 361 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 6: what is happening, you know right now, and I think 362 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 6: it pushes victims, you know, from engaging in the process 363 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 6: even further. We know that Brenda's original story and what 364 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 6: brought her to the forefront from the beginning. We know 365 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 6: that story is true. So I think with what's happening 366 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 6: right now, we have to let the system do its job. 367 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 6: And I think that's probably what's playing out right now 368 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 6: that we're all watching with when you hear and then. 369 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,160 Speaker 3: By the way it is, and yeah, the text messages, 370 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 3: I read some of them. 371 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, when you hear someone say that they didn't consent 372 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 2: to phone sex and that is why they believe that 373 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 2: a coach needs to be fired. To me, when I 374 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 2: hear someone make that argument, that isn't sexual assault, right, 375 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think, by any stretch of the imagination, 376 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 2: at least not that I've heard, engaging in phone sex 377 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 2: would not be sexual assault. 378 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 3: You're in different places now. Maybe if somebody says, hey, 379 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 3: if you. 380 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 2: Hang up the phone, I'm going to fire you and 381 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 2: you're never going to be able to work again, and 382 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 2: so you have to stay on the phone and listen 383 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 2: to me, there's no allegation that that took place. Maybe 384 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 2: you could make an argument that that is something that 385 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 2: deserves significant punishment. But when you're talking about a thirty 386 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 2: six minute phone call, and you don't raise the issue 387 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,719 Speaker 2: until you have a speech canceled on the university campus. 388 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 2: And it seems like mel Tucker is trying to dial 389 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 2: back the relationship. To me, it delegitimizes all the work 390 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 2: that you're doing on behalf of people that are actual 391 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 2: sexual assault victims. 392 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 3: Am I am I crazy for analyzing it that way. 393 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,959 Speaker 6: Well, I would say with the with the phone sex, 394 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 6: if it was unwanted, I do think that that could 395 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 6: be considered sexual assault. But you know, you raise other 396 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 6: questions and I think this is where the system is 397 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 6: going to have to step in and kind of figure 398 00:22:55,200 --> 00:23:00,199 Speaker 6: this out. You're talking to adults that are both I 399 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 6: believe in their fifties, so we're not talking young people here. 400 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 6: We're talking consenting adults that had some type of relationship 401 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 6: that we know of. But there just seems to be 402 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 6: a lot that's unclear I think as to how this 403 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 6: all progressed. But definitely I think it's something that we 404 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 6: are going to have to let the system work out. 405 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 6: But you know, I've heard people say, well, why didn't 406 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 6: you hang up, or why didn't you do this? Why 407 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 6: didn't you do that? And you have to realize that 408 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 6: those are a lot of questions that survivors are asked, 409 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 6: and certainly in my case, there was no question about 410 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 6: it with a stranger rape, but still, you know, there 411 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 6: are those questions, why didn't I do this? Why didn't 412 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 6: I run that way? 413 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 4: Why? 414 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 6: You know, So there's already a lot of self doubt. 415 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:56,360 Speaker 6: But with a situation with Brenda, I think what we're 416 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 6: seeing now is that you know, all the different aspects 417 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 6: are coming out, and as adults, I think they they 418 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,360 Speaker 6: both need to take responsibility. But from what I understand 419 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:13,160 Speaker 6: from Tucker's contract, anything that could be reflect or reflect 420 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 6: badly on the university that they're saying that they can 421 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:20,120 Speaker 6: dismiss him for that. So that is certainly I think 422 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 6: something that he and the university will end up working out. 423 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 6: But it's just such a. 424 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,479 Speaker 2: War when you hear it, Yeah, when you hear that 425 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 2: somebody has sent text messages saying that they're after money, 426 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 2: and then they also me cringe. 427 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 6: It makes me cringe. 428 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 2: Because that's the number one thing that women get attacked 429 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 2: when they're especially when the person the man involved has 430 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 2: money or fame or power. The number one attack, I'm 431 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 2: sure you've seen this, The number one attack is she's 432 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 2: only in it for the money. So when there are 433 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 2: texts from Brenda Tracy that clearly suggests she's after mel 434 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 2: Tucker's money and reference how big contract was that is, 435 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,479 Speaker 2: I mean, I would imagine, I mean, you speak to 436 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 2: what that does. But that just further legitimizes in many 437 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 2: people's minds that that's the first go to attack anytime 438 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 2: a celebrity or a famous or rich person is accused 439 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 2: of wrongdoing. 440 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 6: Right right, I think as an advocate and activist, I 441 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 6: think it's always good to always check your first motivation 442 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 6: for doing it. And I can say that I've actually 443 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 6: taken a second job, or actually not a second job. 444 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 6: I was retired, but I actually took a job so 445 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:41,239 Speaker 6: that I could fund my advocacy. So I think it's 446 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 6: always important, you know, to check, you know why why 447 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,360 Speaker 6: we're doing something, and why we're in it, and what 448 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 6: your goal is. And certainly I think that's only something 449 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 6: that Brenda can answer for herself, and I unfortunately this 450 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 6: does push victims back into the shadows because they're going 451 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 6: to be afraid to speak up. But I really don't 452 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 6: think that that's what Brenda ever envisioned or would ever 453 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 6: want either, so, but you know, unfortunately, because it is 454 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 6: becoming very high profile and for the work that she 455 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 6: does at the national level, it really kind of puts 456 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 6: a spotlight on it. And I hate to see that happen. 457 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 6: I hate to see what's happening for the coach, I 458 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 6: hate to see what's happening for Brenda, And I really 459 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 6: hope that in the hearing process and then the investigation 460 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 6: they can kind of come to some sort of agreement 461 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 6: as to what happened there and who's responsible for what, 462 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 6: and be able to kind of get this out of 463 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 6: the public aspect of it. 464 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 2: All Right, last question for you, and I appreciate you 465 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 2: calling in sharing your perspective. This is something that I 466 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 2: think everybody could agree on. There are a tremendous amount 467 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 2: of rape kits that are not being tested. A monstrous backlog, 468 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 2: is my understanding. What can you tell us about the 469 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 2: numbers that are outstanding? The number of these kits that 470 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 2: are never tested, that are never analyzed. Where are we 471 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 2: what needs to happen for. 472 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 3: That to change? 473 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 6: You know, A dreyful Heart Foundation has been a big 474 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 6: leader in testing the backlog, and there are oh, at 475 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 6: last count, I'm not one hundred percent, sure, so don't 476 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 6: quote me on this, but there are over half the 477 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 6: states I think have eliminated actually their rat kit backlog 478 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 6: and have completed reform so that it won't happen again 479 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 6: in that state. And certainly we did that in Oregon 480 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 6: and here in Oklahoma. I actually moved here to get 481 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 6: away from my offender when I knew he was going 482 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 6: to be released from prison. But in doing that, I 483 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 6: actually brought rape kit reform here to Oklahoma. So our 484 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 6: Attorney General get your Drummonds, oversees the task force, and 485 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 6: we are we're getting closer here in Oklahoma to full 486 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 6: rape kit reform. And like I said, a lot of 487 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 6: states have already reached that. We've got some that haven't 488 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 6: done anything, but those are getting fewer and fewer. So 489 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 6: as you see us tackling the rape kit backlog and 490 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 6: getting success in that area, then you start to look 491 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,400 Speaker 6: at other laws, and one of those is the Statute 492 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 6: of Limitations on rape both with DNA and without DNA, 493 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 6: and that's where cases like this, what's happening with Brenda, 494 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 6: that's where it makes my job a little bit harder. 495 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 6: So and I'm going for some changes in the Statute 496 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 6: of limitations on rape here in Oklahoma and the next 497 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 6: legislative session. So when you get that high profile of well, 498 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 6: we don't think, you know, she's being truthful, it really reflects, 499 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 6: you know, on us, really boots on the ground that 500 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 6: are working really hard and diligently, you know, to change 501 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 6: and make that landscape a little bit easier for survivors 502 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 6: to actually navigate and try and get justice. 503 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 3: Thank you for the call. 504 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 6: A lot of what I do. 505 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 2: Thank you for the call and shedding light on this. 506 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 2: She's Danielle Tudor, rape survivor, sexual assault advocate. I wanted 507 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 2: to make sure we got you an opportunity to tell 508 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 2: your full story. After the first hour we didn't get 509 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 2: it complete. 510 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 3: Thank you very much. Have a good weekend. 511 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 6: Thank you. Thank you for having me, no doubt. 512 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 2: Look, holiday gift might sound crazy, right we're sitting here 513 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 2: early October. 514 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 3: A lot of you probably just cringe. You're like, oh, 515 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 3: holidays already. 516 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 2: Yes, a lot of you have to figure out what 517 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 2: to get as gifts too. A lot of times very 518 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 2: difficult to get gifts. Nobody knows what to get me. 519 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 2: If you're a dad out there, if you're a granddad, 520 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 2: how many ties you got. How many sweaters you got? 521 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 2: How many books that you never even had any interest 522 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 2: in reading. Nobody knows what to get an awful lot 523 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 2: of men. How about preserving memories forever. That's a pretty 524 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 2: good gift. That's what Legacy Box does. Look, they can 525 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 2: hook you up right now. They can get you ready 526 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 2: in time for the holidays. More than a million families 527 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 2: have benefited from Legacy Boxes expertise. 528 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 3: All those old VHS tape, all. 529 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 2: Those old photos, all that old in real physical condition. 530 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 2: You know, VHS tapes weren't made to last forever. They 531 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 2: degrade and disintegrate in a hurry. How many of your 532 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 2: family's memories are on those old VHS tapes? Those camcorders 533 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 2: the dad or mom carried around, took photos, took videos 534 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 2: of you sitting around the Christmas tree. How many of 535 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,719 Speaker 2: those great moments are you worried won't exist for your kids, 536 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 2: for your grandkids to be able to see. A Legacy 537 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 2: Box will hook you up right now and they can 538 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 2: give you a Christmas present for everyone, which is your 539 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 2: family's memories preserved forever. If you go online right now 540 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 2: at Legacy box dot com slash clay, you can get 541 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 2: forty percent off their normal prices, and have a brand 542 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 2: new present for member of your family. It's tough to 543 00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 2: shop for. Preserve those family memories forever. Website legacybox dot 544 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 2: com slash Clay forty percent off the normal prices. Legacy 545 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 2: box dot com slash Clay. 546 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: Download and use the new Clay and Fuck app. Listen 547 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 1: to the program live, Catch. 548 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 3: Up on any part of the show you might have missed. 549 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: Stay current with what Clay and Buck are saying on TV. 550 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: Fine the Clay and Buck app in your app store and. 551 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 2: Make it part of your Dave welcome back in closing 552 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 2: up shop on the Friday edition of the program. I 553 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 2: hope all of you are going to have fantastic weekends. 554 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to headed down to Aggie Land College 555 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 2: Station to watch text A and M and Alabama play. 556 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 2: I'm sure I'm gonna meet a lot of listeners there, 557 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 2: a lot of you want to weigh in with a 558 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 2: wide variety of calls out there. Uh, let's see, should 559 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 2: I go to Wendy first? 560 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 3: Guys? 561 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 2: Is that the updated version or is everybody else still 562 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 2: waiting to Wendy is up first? Wendy and Grand Rapids, 563 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:56,959 Speaker 2: Michigan thanks for listening. 564 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 5: Thank you. I just wanted to make up to that. 565 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 5: I think you're missing a little bit, and that is 566 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 5: that Meltucker was not fired from MSU for sexual abuse. 567 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 5: I don't think there's anybody in the state of Michigan, 568 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 5: including MSU, that believes that this was non consensual. But 569 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 5: Michigan State's been trying to get rid of Meltucker's contract 570 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 5: for a very long time. So if you look at 571 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 5: their statement, it's pretty carefully worded in that they fired 572 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 5: him for what they consider to be like cause a 573 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 5: morals clause. They say that he violated the integrity of 574 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 5: the university by having this affair with a staffer. 575 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 2: So well, let me just say this. By the way, 576 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 2: she's not a staffer. She spoke on campus one time. 577 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 2: I don't think legally titled nine applies. But if your 578 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 2: argument is if Meltucker was thirteen and oh last year, 579 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 2: would they have fired him? 580 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 3: What do you think about that? 581 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 5: I think they probably wouldn't have. And I'm not agreeing 582 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 5: with you on anything at all. 583 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 2: But I don't think no, I think that's a good point. No, No, 584 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 2: I think you're making a good point. Everybody there. I 585 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 2: think this is important. I at you'd agree to Wendy, 586 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 2: Like the person who sells the most cars on the 587 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 2: car lot can get away with more than the person 588 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 2: who sells the less cars. Right, there's not one standard 589 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 2: of behavior in business, because the person who makes the 590 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 2: most money or has the most success has more leeway 591 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 2: than the person who has the least success and makes 592 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 2: the least money for the program. But I do think 593 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 2: you're right. I think that's an interesting angle here, and 594 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 2: for people out there who are following, there's a difference 595 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 2: between cause. Right, if Michigan State had decided, look, we 596 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 2: don't like mel Tucker. We think he's doing a bad 597 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 2: job as a coach, We're going to fire him. That's 598 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 2: the risk of being a football coach. But they would 599 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 2: have to pay him out all the money that he's owed. 600 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 2: They are saying that they owe him no money, which 601 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 2: is going to turn into a big dispute here. My 602 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 2: biggest issue, Wendy is just when the woman is clearly 603 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 2: not actually a victim, claims to be a victim, and 604 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 2: then text messages come out that show that she's just 605 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 2: looking for a payday, Michigan State is rewarding and encouraging 606 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 2: behavior like this by firing mel Tucker based on this situation. 607 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 3: Do you agree with that? 608 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 2: My concern is just we got to stop with this 609 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 2: argument that based on your identity, we're going to believe 610 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 2: or disbelieve you. 611 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 5: Well, absolutely, I agree with you one percent. But the 612 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 5: other point is is that mal Tucker is not going 613 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,799 Speaker 5: to be able to recoup anything from Michigan State. You 614 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 5: know what I mean. He has no recourse because they 615 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 5: didn't fire him for sexual assault, which he is obviously 616 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,320 Speaker 5: not guilty of. You know, they fired him for other reasons. 617 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, So my argument, my argument would be, Wendy, and 618 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:41,359 Speaker 2: I think it's going to turn thank you for the call, 619 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 2: smart points. I think it's going to turn into and 620 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 2: this is me putting my lawyer hat on. It's going 621 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:51,240 Speaker 2: to turn into a battle over whether this is justifiable cause. 622 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,280 Speaker 2: And I'll just say this, I'm not casting morals judgments. 623 00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 2: If having an affair means that you're not a to 624 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 2: be a college football coach at a major coach in 625 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 2: America at least fifty percent, I'm not trying to throw 626 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 2: anybody under the bus here. At least fifty percent of 627 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 2: all college football head coaches should be fired on the spot, 628 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 2: and it may be higher than fifty percent. 629 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 3: And he didn't even I. 630 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 2: Guess you can get into what exactly is an affair. 631 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 2: He didn't have physical contact with her. They had phone 632 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 2: sex once. I don't even know what the definition of 633 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 2: an affair would be. I think that they will end 634 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 2: up before all is said and done settling, he'll get 635 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 2: tens of millions of dollars. 636 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:38,760 Speaker 3: That would be my prediction. 637 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 2: My point is just when we treat these as legitimate 638 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,319 Speaker 2: claims and they are not, we are creating the incentive 639 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 2: for more lies to be told. And I don't think 640 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 2: it's coincidental that both Trevor Bauer and mel Tucker to me, 641 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,439 Speaker 2: are further evidence of what the precedent that we set 642 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:06,359 Speaker 2: in the Brett Kavanaugh case leads to. That is, if 643 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 2: you create a world where hashtag believe all women is 644 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 2: the standard, some women are going to see that and recognize. 645 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 3: That the justice system. 646 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 2: Or the public perception is skewed in their direction such 647 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,279 Speaker 2: that nobody's going to question them even if they lie, 648 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 2: and they're going to try to lie to get economic advantage. 649 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 2: And if you want to see these text messages, you 650 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 2: can go to my Twitter feed. I read them earlier. 651 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 2: These are her own words saying she's doing this for money, 652 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,759 Speaker 2: and as you heard from our last guest, that actually 653 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 2: delegitimizes anyone who is actually a victim of sexual assault 654 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,880 Speaker 2: because it calls in to question their honesty and makes 655 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,400 Speaker 2: others seem like liars as a result. 656 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 3: Love you guys, thanks for hanging with us on Friday.