1 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory. 2 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: For this episode, we told the professional professional athletes get 3 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,119 Speaker 1: out of here, take a break. We're bringing in the 4 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: media and with us today Jeff Jones of the Belleville 5 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: News Democrat and John Denton, formerly of MLB dot com. 6 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: Hire this guy because he's really really good. Now, gentlemen, 7 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: before we get started, we have a tradition on this 8 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: podcast we beg for subscribers. So we want to get 9 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: to seven thousand because that's what aj Prazinski said we 10 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: had to get to and we're all terrified to him. 11 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: So if you like Cardinal Territory, and we assume if 12 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: you're watching you like it a little bit, go ahead, 13 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: reach out and touch that subscribe button. We want to 14 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: grow the podcast and we'd like to get to seven 15 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: thousand subscribers. Well, boys, Team USA loses in the final 16 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: to Venezuela three to two. A lot to talk about 17 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: in this I'm gonna start with this because Team USA 18 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: had a star studded lineup with all kinds of pop 19 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: up and down the lineup. In the final three games, 20 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: team USA scored a total of nine runs. So my 21 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: first question and I'll start with you, Jeff, is where 22 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: did the o go? 23 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 2: You know, I guess the thing that everyone says is 24 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 2: that in spring training the pitchers are always a little 25 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 2: bit ahead of the hitters, and you see that kind 26 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 2: of you know, still over into the regular season. Now, 27 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 2: that didn't seem to bother the d R much. For instance, 28 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 2: those guys seem to be in fine hitting shape. But 29 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 2: I would imagine there probably is an extent to which 30 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 2: that's the case for the US team, especially given you know, 31 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 2: the guys in the team who are maybe not playing 32 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 2: winter ball in the same way as some of these 33 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 2: other players are. But yeah, it was distressing, you know, 34 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 2: and I think too it stood out to me last night. 35 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 2: Obviously there are challenges when you're managing your roster that 36 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 2: only has two catchers on it and you have some 37 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,679 Speaker 2: limited options there. But that's the one run game in 38 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 2: the ninth and cal Rally's sitting on the bench, and 39 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 2: the guy who had sixty homers last year sits on 40 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:17,359 Speaker 2: the bench while Roman Anthony strikes out there in the 41 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 2: World Baseball Classic. Roman Anthony is gonna be a good 42 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 2: player in the big leagues for a lot of years 43 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 2: to come. But I'm much when they game at home going, 44 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 2: surely cal Rallley' is getting to the plate here at 45 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 2: some point and it didn't happen. And so it's just 46 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:30,399 Speaker 2: just tough to see them lose in a fashion where 47 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 2: you know, otherwise you would have seen a real moment 48 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 2: from Bryce Harper. You want to see a really cool 49 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 2: highlight that'll that'll last for years to come. But instead 50 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 2: the Venezuelan's you know, scraped it together and to their credit, 51 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 2: were able to deliver that knockout punch of the US 52 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 2: just didn't have. 53 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: Now, John, I get it, and we heard about it 54 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: throughout the broadcast. You know, it's still spring training for 55 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,679 Speaker 1: these guys. These guys got a lot of work, a 56 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: lot of cage work. They gone up some of that 57 00:02:54,840 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: bets in high level game situation, right, I expect a 58 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: little more offense, and cal Rowling never got it going. 59 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: I mean, he's a game changer, but he never got it. 60 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 3: Just your thoughts on what we so, Yeah, Kat, I mean, 61 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 3: this thing is every three years these guys know they're 62 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 3: going to be on the team. They should be hitting 63 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,359 Speaker 3: all off season getting ready for this moment. We can't 64 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 3: keep using that excuse I mean maybe the offense took 65 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 3: their cue from Aaron Judge with that awful speech he 66 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 3: gave him. I mean, Aaron Judge might be the worst 67 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 3: captain since the guy drove the Titanic into the Iceberg. 68 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 3: I mean, he didn't hit. His speech wasn't very good. 69 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 3: You know, it was a good thing to see Harper 70 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:34,239 Speaker 3: hit the ball, he hit the home run that he did, 71 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,839 Speaker 3: because Schwerber didn't have a good series. Harper didn't really 72 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 3: have a good series. He had the big moment there, 73 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 3: but you know, it's just a shame twenty five strikeouts 74 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 3: in the last two games. You know, of course, guys 75 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 3: are using the excuse they're not ready, they're in mid 76 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 3: not midseason shape. You know, I don't buy that. I mean, 77 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 3: these guys have known for months and months they were 78 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 3: going to be on this team. They need to be 79 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 3: taking VP all offseason. They need to be ready when 80 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 3: this thing goes because it's a big tournament, and I 81 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 3: fully enjoyed it. I was happy for Venezuela because you 82 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 3: saw the tiers coming down to those players. So this 83 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 3: tournament definitely mattered to Team USA and they just have 84 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 3: to be better ready next time. 85 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: Bottom line, World Baseball Classic is good for baseball period, 86 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: good for Major League baseball, good for youth baseball, good 87 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: for baseball around the world. So that's a good thing. 88 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: I'm not so sure how good it is for Mark 89 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: de ross at this point. Now, for the record, DeRosa 90 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: very good major league player, really good host on the air, 91 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:37,799 Speaker 1: no question about it, and all around a good dude. 92 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: Like I know him, he's a good guy. But he 93 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: had that little sneffo where he wasn't exactly clear on 94 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: the tide breaker stuff, and I'm not so sure that 95 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 1: he was able to talk his way out of it 96 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: and never really clarified it to a lot of people's satisfaction. 97 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: And then so when other things went wrong, Cod, Yeah, 98 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: Mark de Rosa, So Jeff I asked you, is DeRosa 99 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: going to be able to live this? 100 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 4: Then? 101 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 1: Everybody likes some good guy, smart baseball guy. Made some 102 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: mistakes and as you guys point out, you know, he 103 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: had to follow these rules about player usage, some of 104 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: it we might not even know about, right, but he 105 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: did his best to navigate and he didn't see it through. 106 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: Is he gonna have to wear this for a little while? Yeah? 107 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 4: I think he probably is. 108 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 2: You know you you've heard his name mentioned in conjunction 109 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,799 Speaker 2: with a lot of potential job openings. You know, throughout 110 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 2: the last couple of winners, a guy who currently wants 111 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,039 Speaker 2: to be a big league manager, and I think, fair 112 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 2: or not, this is probably going to stick to him 113 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 2: for a little bit. And whether or not that means 114 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 2: that he has a future as a big league manager. 115 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 2: I you know, not for me to say they don't 116 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: want me to make those hiring decisions. I do think 117 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 2: that the fair contrast to draw it is probably with 118 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 2: Omar Lopez running that Venezuelan team. You know, this is 119 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 2: a guy who is is the bench coach in Houston, 120 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 2: a guy who has a lot of experience working in 121 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 2: the big leagues, and when things were asked of him, 122 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 2: he was able to kind of massage and was able 123 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 2: to push back. I mean, you saw Daniel Polentsi a 124 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 2: pitch last night, third time in four days. I'm sure 125 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 2: the Cubs didn't love that, but he was able to 126 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 2: make it happen. He had a press conference early in 127 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 2: the tournament where he was asked about the restrictions he 128 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 2: got from teams, and he said, look, you know, I 129 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 2: had some teams reach out to me twenty four hours 130 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 2: before this started, and I had to tell him, I'm sorry, 131 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 2: I already have. 132 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 4: My guys planned out. Now. 133 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 2: Some of that probably was a little bit of bravado, 134 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 2: and I'm sure that even they made more concessions than 135 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 2: we were going to hear about. 136 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 4: And there's no. 137 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 2: Doubt that when you're talking about the US team, where 138 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 2: there's a lot of guys who have big names, who 139 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 2: are making big money, who are a you know, weird 140 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 2: s posting their career trek Scooble for instance, a guy 141 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 2: who's on the precipice of what could be like a 142 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 2: record breaking free agency, totally understandable that it's going to 143 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 2: be challenging to manage some of those things with those guys. 144 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 2: Also difficult not to imagine that it couldn't have gone 145 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,799 Speaker 2: a little better with maybe a more experienced, little steadier 146 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 2: hand at the wheel and maybe somebody who is a 147 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 2: little more comfortable pushing back on some of these teams 148 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,919 Speaker 2: to maybe Duroso, who you know, works in the Commissioner's 149 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 2: office in his auto will be network, has to maintain 150 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,919 Speaker 2: a lot of relationships. Maybe somebody who's in a position 151 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 2: to push back a little could do that A little 152 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 2: more effectively. 153 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: So it's a balance. There's no question. If you're going 154 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: to manage a team USA in particular, you're gonna have 155 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: to strike a balance. So John, usually you like to 156 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: treat someone like a Pennanta. Just take some wax at him. 157 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: What about Durosa? Did he handle that balance well enough? 158 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 3: You know it's a it's a tough job, Jim, Like 159 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 3: you said, there's so there's thirty teams who are calling 160 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 3: him telling him who he can use or who he 161 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 3: can't use. But you know that type of stage. I 162 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 3: want to see our best major league managers managing that game. 163 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 3: I don't want to see Nolan McClain starting a gold 164 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 3: medal game. You know, I want to see a grizzled 165 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 3: old school manager. What do they tell you you always 166 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 3: want to see your pilot have gray hair. I want 167 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 3: to see my manager have gray hair. I want to 168 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 3: see somebody who's done it for a lot of games. 169 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 3: Nolan McLain's going to be one of the maybe the 170 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 3: best rookie in baseball this year. I don't want to 171 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 3: see him starting the gold medal game. You know that 172 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 3: that needs to be somebody who's done it before, and 173 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 3: like Jeff said, you need a manager who's going to 174 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 3: push back, a manager who's going to fight some of 175 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 3: this stuff a little harder. We need to take this 176 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 3: more serious. I mean, the world is kicking USA's butt 177 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 3: in this thing right now. So if we want to 178 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 3: win this thing, we really got to get our best 179 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 3: guys and get him in there. You know, I'm sure 180 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 3: tark Skooble didn't feel great last night watching that the 181 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 3: way that played out, And you know, if he had 182 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 3: a long term deal under his belt, he probably would 183 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 3: have pitched that game last night. So you know, if 184 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 3: we're serious about winning this thing, we got to go 185 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 3: with our best major league managers and our best major 186 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,439 Speaker 3: league starting pitchers in that spot. 187 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: I don't know if Durosa has gray hair now, and 188 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: I haven't seen him in a while, but I guarantee 189 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: he does now. He does. 190 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 4: Ye. 191 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: So, we all love the World Baseball Classic, right, but 192 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: you've heard people bring up alternate suggestions for when it 193 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: should be played or how it should be played. If 194 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: do you like it as it is now or would 195 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: you like to see it moved All Star Break another time? 196 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 2: What are your thoughts the idea of playing it during 197 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 2: the All Star break is interesting to me. I'm not 198 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 2: entirely sure how that looks. You know, it probably has 199 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 2: to be some hybrid of maybe you do the round 200 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 2: robin play during spring and then you're talking about the 201 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 2: knockout games during the All Star break. Maybe that gets 202 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 2: to be a place where it's a little more tolerable 203 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 2: in terms of workload and all that. 204 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 4: But you know, it's hard to say. 205 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 2: I think the other thing too, to keep in mind 206 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 2: is that the next time we see best on best 207 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 2: or close to it may very well be at the 208 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 2: Olympics in twenty twenty eight. You know, there's a real 209 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 2: possibility that that major league players will play in those Olympics. 210 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 2: And if that's the case, that will be really exciting 211 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 2: because I'll just take it to the next level. You know, 212 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 2: at anybody who watches hockey can tell you the Four 213 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 2: Nations was fun and it was cool and it was 214 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 2: exciting a year ago, but it wasn't the Olympics. And 215 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 2: you know, Olympic baseball doesn't have that same history obviously 216 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 2: of a professional involvement. But if the twenty eight Olympics do, 217 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 2: who have that and there are big leaguers playing in 218 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 2: that tournament? That's gonna be really special, especially because tournament's 219 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 2: gonna be excuse me, NLA played in Dodger Stadium. 220 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 4: That's gonna be really exciting. And I really hope that's 221 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:12,239 Speaker 4: how that works out. 222 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: Then what about you? Do you keep it as is? 223 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: You make changes? If so, what changes? Dude? 224 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 3: I think you got to keep it the way it 225 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 3: is now. Like if you go the middle of the season, 226 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 3: the Tigers aren't gonna let Tark Schooble pitch seven innings 227 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 3: in a game like that. They aren't gonna let him 228 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 3: make a big start. 229 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: You know. 230 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 3: The Phillies are not gonna let Aaron Nola make a 231 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 3: big start in the middle of the season. Like, if 232 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 3: you want the best out there, you're gonna have to 233 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,839 Speaker 3: use them now with the restrictions, because teams who are 234 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 3: serious about go making deep runs in the playoffs, trying 235 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 3: to win a World Series, they're not gonna allow their 236 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 3: best players to give everything. I'm afraid you might see 237 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 3: like an NBA All Star Game or a NHL All 238 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 3: Star Game where it's kind of, you know, kind of 239 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 3: a little bit of you know, just playfulness and it 240 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 3: doesn't have the serious it does now. It's clearly working 241 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 3: right now. The whole baseball world is buzzing about this tournament. 242 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 3: Let's keep it the way it is and keep all 243 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 3: the focus during that two week period and then, you know, 244 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:09,599 Speaker 3: stay away from the All Star break. I'm afraid it 245 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 3: would water it down if you did that. 246 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: Fair point. You are watching Cardinal Territory on the Foul 247 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: Territory Network. 248 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 2: This one's for the dudes looking for peak bedroom performance. 249 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 5: Blue Choo is the number one chewable ed brand and 250 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 5: they just drop their newest innovation. 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I kind of liked the way that 271 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: the rotation took shape. I kind of expected this even 272 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: early on. Obviously it had to play out, Jeff, your 273 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: reaction to. 274 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 2: It, Yeah, I think there's a couple of things here. 275 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 2: I think Number one, Andrea Plante has pitched twelve in spring. 276 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 2: That doesn't obviously erase the struggles he had last season, 277 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 2: but but definitely he looked a little better, a little sharper, 278 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 2: and so maybe you would see a little better version 279 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,439 Speaker 2: of him, certainly to start the season, which makes a 280 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 2: decision with Fits a little easier. The other thing, too, 281 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 2: is that when you look at the schedule for the 282 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 2: opening week of the season, they don't play on a 283 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 2: Thursday for the first four or five weeks of the 284 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 2: regular season, so there are a lot of off days 285 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 2: built into that schedule that makes it a little bit 286 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 2: hard to find a way to use six starters effectively 287 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 2: and get everybody kind of you know, the innings that 288 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 2: they need. You know, as much as the Cardinals have 289 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,199 Speaker 2: been concerned about not overloading guys with workload early in 290 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 2: the season, there's also a concern about not getting guys 291 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 2: enough work. And so with the way that the off 292 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 2: days are stacked up, not totally a shock that they 293 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 2: went this way. You know, Fits is a guy who 294 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 2: obviously I think turned a lot of heads in his 295 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 2: first start to spring, goes out there and all of 296 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 2: a sudden, he's hitting ninety eight ninety nine, you know, 297 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 2: as a guy who last season was hitting ninety seven 298 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:48,319 Speaker 2: and that was one of the biggest year over year 299 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 2: dames in baseball. To amp that up even a little more, 300 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 2: I think was exciting to some folks, But the command 301 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 2: maybe wasn't always there, and there's probably something to be 302 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 2: said for giving him some time to kind of work 303 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 2: through those things in a less stressful environment, and also, 304 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 2: you know, creating a situation where when the Cardinals do 305 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 2: need another starter, he's going to be able to be 306 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 2: there for them. 307 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 4: To reach for. 308 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 2: I think the thing that you know, we repeated it 309 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 2: a lot throughout last season, but that there's repeating now 310 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 2: is that they did not have a starter get hurt 311 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 2: all of last season. That's that's just remarkable. That just 312 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 2: doesn't happen, right, Like, as much as they want to 313 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 2: and we can talk up the program, they have these 314 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 2: guys on to keep everyone healthy to some extent, like 315 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 2: luck's gonna bite you. They're not going to get through 316 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 2: the season with no injury. 317 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 4: That just that just doesn't happen. 318 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 2: So to have that added depth at Triple A, I 319 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 2: think is useful. And it also puts them in a 320 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 2: situation where they can afford to be a little less 321 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 2: choosy with the back and you know, the back half 322 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 2: of the right side of the bull ty because there 323 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 2: are some guys without a lot of roster flexibility. George 324 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 2: Soriano doesn't have options. Matt Pushard is a Rule five guy. 325 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 2: Scott Blewett not on the Fordy Man, but is out 326 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 2: of options once he goes on. So there are some 327 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 2: some flexible spots they need to find, and doing this 328 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 2: with fits gives them some more choices in that area 329 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 2: of the roster. 330 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: And I think one of the untold stories that Lay said, 331 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: you know last season, Hey, I've talked to him about 332 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: being a starter, and I think I could be a 333 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: Starter's repertoire is really good. And also he's got that 334 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: arm we saw last year out of the bullpen where 335 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: he just wants the ball, doesn't matter how many times 336 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: in a row he's pitched. He wants the ball. But 337 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: I think his stuff was nasty and John, you know 338 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: about this guy. He's real quiet in the clubhouse, a 339 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: soft spoken guy, but he is intense on the mound. 340 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: I like what he brings to the table. 341 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, Jim, I really like Leayy a lot. Like anytime 342 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 3: you talk to Ali Marmol about him, the first word 343 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 3: he uses aptitude. He's probably the smartest guy in that room. 344 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 3: I mean, he throws six seven pitches. He probably could 345 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 3: throw an eighth pitch if you needed him too. And 346 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 3: he's a guy who he doesn't take himself too seriously. 347 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 3: He's very mellow, quiet, but he attacks when he's on 348 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 3: the mound. And he will even tell you he's like, 349 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 3: how can the hitter know what's coming when I don't 350 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 3: even know what I'm gonna throw? He said, I just 351 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 3: throw what Pedro tells me. But he's got a pitch 352 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 3: that goes right, he's got a pitch that goes left. 353 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 3: You know, he can throw the sinker. He's a diamond 354 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 3: in the rough. I really hope he has a good season. 355 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 3: And you know, we saw him for a long stretch 356 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 3: last year where he was really really good. You know, 357 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 3: if he can go out and repeat what he did 358 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 3: for the first you know, three months of last season, 359 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 3: do that as a starter this year, he can really 360 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 3: make himself a lot of money and become a great 361 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 3: value to the Cardinals. 362 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: And he wants to do it. So we all know 363 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: Jordan Walker has talent because we saw it at the 364 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: major league level, right and since then it's been a regression. 365 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: Now we all know Jordan is a really good young man, 366 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: still young. Have to put that out there, still a 367 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: young guy, but still trying to find it. And I 368 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: go back to last year, Jeff, where he went down 369 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: to Double A and they simplified his approach, and he said, 370 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: and he told all of us, all the media, that 371 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: his focus was any movement that wasn't toward the wall. 372 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: He got rid of simplified. And then he had some 373 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 1: short term success, but now he's kind of gotten different directions. 374 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: I think he's a little bit lost. I know he's 375 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: in the hitting lab. What do you think the best 376 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: solution in your opinion, for Jordan Walker at this point 377 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 1: to get back to where we know he can be. 378 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 2: So I guess I guess what I would start is 379 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 2: with the way they have described the situation, and you 380 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,199 Speaker 2: talk Alamar Moole about this, and the explanation from the 381 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,360 Speaker 2: Cardinals tends to be the things that Jordan Walker needs 382 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 2: to work on, the things we all consider right, the 383 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 2: pitch selection, the ability to protect down in a way, 384 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,439 Speaker 2: their argument is that those things are not things that 385 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 2: are likely to improve a triple A because the guys 386 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 2: who are pitching at that level just don't have the 387 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 2: command to hit those spots in the same way that 388 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 2: big league hitters do. And so their thought is to 389 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 2: have him down there to get more selective against triple A. 390 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 2: Pitching to you to to swing better in the minors 391 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 2: doesn't translate in the same way because of the things 392 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 2: he needs to work on, and fair enough, if that's 393 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 2: their judgment, that's that's difficult. But when you look at 394 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 2: sort of the competitive goal of this team, and you know, 395 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 2: if we're not going to say rebuilding, we can save 396 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 2: the short term versus the long term. However they want 397 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 2: to praise it. I understand why they're taking the track 398 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 2: that they're taking. The challenge eventually is going to be 399 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 2: How does that affect the rest of the roster. You know, 400 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 2: what is the message to the other guys on this team? 401 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 2: If Walker is going to come off a season where 402 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 2: the ops starts with the five go into spring, have 403 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 2: twice as many strikeouts as hits, and by the way, 404 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 2: all the hits are singles, and they're just gonna roll 405 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 2: with the end of the season. Now they would say 406 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 2: that spring stand bringing stats don't matter. That probably is true. 407 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 2: The trend is pretty ugly, and so that gets increasingly 408 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 2: difficult to ignore, hard to justify from a pure performance standpoint. 409 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 2: If it gets to be you know, let's say Memorial 410 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 2: Day and we're talking about but now, all of a sudden, 411 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 2: Lars new Bar is healthy, and what if Josh Bias 412 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 2: is tearing of triple A the way he was last year. 413 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 2: No matter how far back the Cardinals are in the 414 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 2: standing to that point, or you know, no matter where 415 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 2: they are in the standing, to that point. I guess right, 416 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 2: it becomes really difficult to justify keeping on with the 417 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 2: keeping on if it doesn't look a whole lot better. 418 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: Now. 419 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 2: Maybe a month from now, we're two and a half 420 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 2: weeks into the regular season and Jordan Walker's got four 421 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 2: homers and we're all going ah spring training. 422 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 4: They would love that to be in the case. 423 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 2: I am skeptical that that would be the case, but 424 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 2: they're going to give it lots of time to find out. 425 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: This is the part where I want to say, John Denton, 426 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: you're a great writer. You believe you belong having a 427 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: full time gig. I hope someone sees this and said, 428 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:47,880 Speaker 1: I want to hire that guy. But a right, you're 429 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 1: a smart guy. You've seen Walker a lot. What are 430 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: your thoughts on the best way to get him back 431 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: to where. 432 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:53,360 Speaker 4: He should be? 433 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, due, it's it's ugly so far. I mean, like 434 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 3: Jeff said, six for thirty four and all six are singles. Like, 435 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 3: you know, the whole reason they tried to change his 436 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 3: swing was to get him to lift the ball, to 437 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 3: drive the ball more. 438 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 4: There's not a. 439 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 3: Lot of hard contact so far. So but you know, 440 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 3: like if the Cardinals were trying to win this year. 441 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 3: I think that this would be a real debate. This 442 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 3: is a development year. Jordan Walker has to be at 443 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 3: Triple A. I mean, I mean, he has to be 444 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 3: in the major leagues. I'm sorry, I misspoked there. He's 445 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 3: gonna be in the major leagues. He's gonna have to 446 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 3: ride these struggles out, you know, and like Jeff said, 447 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 3: until we see a Josh Baz tearing it up, you know, 448 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 3: until we see maybe a Chase Chase Davis playing well, Uh, 449 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:36,120 Speaker 3: he's gonna get the shots. 450 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:36,679 Speaker 1: You know. 451 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 3: Lars Newbar is gonna come back at some point, we think. 452 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 3: But Jordan's got to figure this out at the big 453 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 3: league level. Last year, they sent him to not Triple A. 454 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 3: They send him to Double A. They sent him to 455 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 3: work with Casey Chinna with kind of a hitting guru. 456 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 3: Casey's with the big league club now, So it doesn't 457 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 3: really do a lot of good to send him to Memphis. 458 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 3: He need they need to see once and for all, 459 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 3: can he work his way out of this? Can he 460 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 3: find some confidence? Can he do it at the major 461 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 3: league level? And you know, if we get to May 462 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 3: and he's six for thirty four with six singles, the 463 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 3: way he is. Now they're gonna have their answers. But 464 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 3: if you send him to Triple A and he struggles, 465 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,120 Speaker 3: you're still really not gonna know anything. So I think 466 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 3: he's got to start at Saint Louis and you got 467 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 3: to see if he can find a way to dig 468 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 3: out with this. 469 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 1: So spring training's fools gold. We all know that if 470 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: you're hopeful for a guy and he's hitting while you're like, no, 471 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 1: that means something. Otherwise he's just working on stuff, right, 472 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: But let's take Nolan Gorman for example. He's hitting, seems 473 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,879 Speaker 1: to have found something, So Jeff, is what we're seeing 474 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: from Nolan Gorman, who's been a little bit more selective 475 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: shown his power at sprand training? Is this the real deal? 476 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 2: He would certainly hope, So, you know, I think the 477 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 2: caution with Gorman is sort of this is kind of 478 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 2: the hitter he has been throughout his big league career, right, 479 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 2: He's been a guy who goes white hot for ten 480 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 2: days two weeks and then disappears for the rest of 481 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 2: the month and eating it to the end of it, 482 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 2: and it looks a little ragged. And so for the Cardinals, 483 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 2: it's simply a matter of how do you kind of 484 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 2: decrease the interval between those hot streaks. If this is 485 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 2: going to be the guy that he is, then it 486 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 2: needs to be two weeks on, two weeks off, and 487 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 2: not ten days on three weeks off, right, and you know, 488 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 2: you get a little more productivity over those times. Being 489 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 2: more selective will definitely help. I think it will definitely 490 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 2: help Nolan Norman too, to know that he has a 491 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 2: spot at third base and not have to sweat where 492 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 2: he's going to be in the lineup each and every day. 493 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,959 Speaker 2: I'm pretty interested to see how the deployment works out 494 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 2: throughout the season. 495 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,120 Speaker 4: With Ramon Noius being a. 496 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 2: Guy who's really solid glove, especially at third base, does 497 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 2: that give Gorman more DH time and if so, what 498 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 2: does that look like? But I think just for Gorman 499 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 2: not having to sort of worry about what's the spot, 500 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 2: where does it fit? 501 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: Where? 502 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 2: You know, what do I have to do defensively, that 503 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,199 Speaker 2: can certainly only help, And I think too for Gorman 504 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 2: at this point, he I think has a recognition of 505 00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 2: it's got to work out this season for him or 506 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 2: there gonna be some serious questions about kind of where 507 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 2: his career path goes from here, right I think I 508 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 2: think with with Walker, kind of given his age and 509 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 2: given his relative lack of experience, even if it goes 510 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 2: south and the Cardinals find themselves thinking that the best 511 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 2: thing to do would be going to move on, there 512 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 2: are gonna be lots of teams out there who are 513 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 2: gonna convince themselves they can do X, Y and Z 514 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 2: with Walker and turn him into the player that they 515 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 2: think that he can be. With Gorman, I think it's 516 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 2: a little more like where he's at in his career. 517 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 2: You know, he's approaching arbitration or actually I think he 518 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 2: might have been ur one that, but in that, in 519 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 2: that that that form of his career, he's getting to 520 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 2: a point where it's got to go or it's gonna 521 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:33,360 Speaker 2: not go right. 522 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 4: And I think he has a recognition of that. 523 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,120 Speaker 2: Uh And for him, I can imagine that being helpful 524 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 2: more than it has been a hindrance. 525 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: I also think his power to all fields is rare. 526 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: He's got unique power, and teams will be interested in 527 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 1: Nolan Gorman regardless of how things go into really going 528 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: this season. So John, I want to ask you about 529 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: Gorman too, Like I think he gets a bad rap 530 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: because he's one of those guys that. Hey, he's talking 531 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: about himself. He doesn't love being on camera, but I've 532 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: talked to him away from the camera. That's a guy 533 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: who cares. That's a guy who understands the situation he's in. 534 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: And from what I've seen at spring training, and again 535 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: we don't know if it's real or if it's illusion, 536 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 1: he looks like he found something. What are your. 537 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 3: Thoughts, Yeah, Jim, he is a guy who cares. I mean, 538 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 3: he works hard at his craft. You've never heard anybody 539 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 3: say that. Nolan Gorman is not a hard worker, like 540 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 3: he works at this thing. Him and Brent Brown live 541 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 3: a couple of streets apart. They work together most of 542 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 3: the offseason. He's worked with an independent guy this year, 543 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 3: a hitting guru. He's at his best when he's hitting 544 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 3: the ball back through the middle, when he's driving that 545 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 3: ball to left center. When he's driving the ball to center, 546 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 3: that's when he's at his best. He's never going to 547 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 3: be a guy that's going to catch up to the 548 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 3: high fastball. He's got to learn to lay off of 549 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 3: that pitch. He's hit the ball better, building some confidence. 550 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 3: You know, you guys kind of touched on this already. 551 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 3: The big part of it for him is canny play third. 552 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 3: Like Cardinal fans have been spoiled watching one of the 553 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 3: greatest third basemen to ever play the game. There were 554 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 3: big time mobility issues last year. The Cardinals wanted Gorman 555 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 3: to drop some weight. They want him to be more 556 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 3: agile at third base. Uh, you know, if he can 557 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 3: do what he's doing this spring and then play a 558 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 3: good third base, you know, the Cardinals may have something there. 559 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 3: And like Jeff pointed out, finally knowing that this is 560 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,199 Speaker 3: his job every day, that he's gonna get most of 561 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 3: the reps at third. He's gonna be the starter just 562 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 3: about every game except maybe when the left he's pitching. 563 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 3: Hopefully that's got to help him. But he's gotta, you know, 564 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 3: he's got to ride these these hot streaks a little further, 565 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 3: and he's got to find a way to dig himself 566 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 3: out when he becomes just dead pool and when he's guessing, 567 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,479 Speaker 3: you know, that's when he goes in these major funks. 568 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 3: He's got to be the guy that drives the ball 569 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 3: back up the middle. 570 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: And he's got to turn the page on last season 571 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: because it certainly was a good last thing for you gentlemen, 572 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: before we let you go and you guys, one of 573 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: you guys mentioned about where they are if it's a 574 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: reset or rebuilt. As lanceln and Matt Holliday will point 575 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: out on this podcast, this was a tear down to 576 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: the studs. Okay, so they're in a rebuild. I think 577 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,439 Speaker 1: we can all say that now. But Jeff for the 578 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: Cardinals say, yeah, it's Tim's job, and you know he's 579 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: got a hard hat on and you know he's doing 580 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 1: some renovation for Ali Marvel who got the extension, and 581 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: for the Cardinals. What does success look like for the 582 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 1: Cardinals this year? Because you're rebuilding at the same time, 583 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: you want to be competitive. Look, they're going to put 584 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: new things around the stadium to make it more fan 585 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,159 Speaker 1: friendly and more fun to go to games. But they 586 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: also realize they got to give the fans a product, 587 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,159 Speaker 1: so they have to strike that balance. So what is 588 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: success for the Cardinals this year? In your view? 589 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 2: To me, success for the Cardinals in twenty twenty six 590 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 2: is a team that is able to grab some of 591 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 2: the energy that they want to be part of the 592 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 2: new ballpark experience and that they want to be part 593 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 2: of their play style. Success is Victor Scott is a 594 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,439 Speaker 2: league average hitter or close to it, to go along 595 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 2: with all the other tools that he has. Successes Mason 596 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 2: Winn takes a step. Success is Matthew Libertorre looks like 597 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:14,959 Speaker 2: the guy he's been in spring, which is a guy 598 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 2: who pitches at the front of a rotation for pretty 599 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 2: much any team in baseball. Success is Dustin May sustains 600 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 2: what he's done in spring and becomes a guy that 601 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 2: can spin off into multiple additional exciting pieces, you know, 602 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 2: as the season wears on. Success for sure is JJ 603 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 2: Weatherholt looking like the guy that they think that he is, 604 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 2: or at least progressing down that path. It's really hard 605 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 2: for me to measure it in terms of team success 606 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 2: because I think that there are there are permutations of 607 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 2: this season where they win seventy two games and it 608 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,719 Speaker 2: looks like a success, and they are versions where they 609 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 2: win eighty two games and it does not look like one. 610 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 4: It's to me going to be more about. 611 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 2: Style of play, the kind of buy in that you 612 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,959 Speaker 2: get into the clubhouse, and the way that they are 613 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 2: able to sort of come comfortably vertically integrate. What's going 614 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 2: to be a new face and a new face is wrong. 615 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 2: But I you know, Benjamin Hofpenrot a column in the 616 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 2: Saint Louis Post Dispatch over the weekend that I thought 617 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 2: was really was really smart, and he harkened back to 618 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,920 Speaker 2: and I'm sure both of you remember this, that when 619 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,399 Speaker 2: the Duits took over following ninety five, heading into the 620 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 2: ninety six season, there was this ad campaign about baseball 621 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 2: like it ought to be right into harken back to 622 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 2: some of the old school things, the grass and the 623 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 2: arguing with the umpires and the stealing basis, some of 624 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 2: some of the stuff that you think about the terms 625 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,159 Speaker 2: of old school baseball. But that that, to me, is 626 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 2: going to be success for the Cardinals this season. It's 627 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 2: going to be establishing an identity as a young, energetic, 628 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 2: up tempo team that maybe loses games based on mistakes 629 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 2: based on being a little too aggressive or because maybe 630 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 2: the talent depth isn't quite there yet, but it needs 631 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 2: to be based on that and not based on the 632 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 2: same guys making the same mistakes and repeating some of 633 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 2: the same kind of ugly look and losses. 634 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 4: That we've over the last couple of years. 635 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: I agree with that. I would say the two most 636 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: important things energy and improvement, energy and improvement, because I 637 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: think that's what fans are looking for. How do you 638 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: see it? Then? 639 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, Jim, you know it's been three decades since the 640 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 3: Cardinals have been through this. Like I'm wondering, is the 641 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 3: fan base ready for what's coming because it's rebuilding is hard. 642 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 3: Rebuilding guarantees you nothing. There's no such thing as you know, progress, 643 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 3: always being up, up up. It's going to be a 644 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 3: step up, two steps back, a step two steps up. 645 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: It could be. 646 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 3: Ugly at times, like we're talking about Jordan Walker, like, 647 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 3: it could be ugly and fans are gonna have to 648 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 3: ride this thing out. 649 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: You know. 650 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 3: Success is JJ Weatherholt looking like a foundational piece that 651 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 3: you can build around. Success is Mason win becoming a 652 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 3: better all around shortstop. We know he's probably gonna win 653 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 3: five or six gold gloves, he may win him all 654 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 3: in a row, but can he be that guy offensively 655 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 3: that you can hit up higher in the order. Can 656 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 3: you finally figure out whether Nolan Gorman is gonna be 657 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 3: here long term, Jordan Walker's gonna be her long term? 658 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 3: Can you build around those guys? Can you get a 659 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 3: Joshua bye As or a Teak hints or Richard fitz 660 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 3: to make the leap to the big leagues and stick 661 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 3: as a big piece. Can live Ator and lay He 662 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 3: and McGreevy. Can you get twelve wins a piece out 663 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 3: of all three of those If you can get some 664 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 3: of those things, you know, even if it's like Jeff said, 665 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 3: even if it's a seventy two win season, if you 666 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 3: have those pieces that look like foundational pieces, that's gonna 667 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 3: be a success this season. 668 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: Well, gentlemen, that's gonna do it for us. You guys 669 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 1: were great, Jeff. I want to thank you, John Denton, 670 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: Thank you always a pleasure. John. Someone should see this 671 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: and hire you right now. Gentlemen, that's gonna do it 672 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: for this edition of Cardinal Territory. We'll see it for 673 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 1: the next episode and hopefully that one won't suck.