1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: All the media. 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:09,239 Speaker 2: Hello everyone, welcome to the podcast today. We have a 3 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 2: very interesting issue. You're very lucky to be joined by Onomo, 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 2: who we've heard from before, who is a minister who 5 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 2: is hindering in the National Unity Government of Burma or Myanmar, 6 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 2: both of those words are okay, And we're talking about 7 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 2: the situation of Rhinga people and the development sort of 8 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 2: happened in Rakaine State since I guess since the beginning 9 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 2: of Operation ten twenty seven. So welcome to the show. 10 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 3: Thank you so much day, thanks for having me and 11 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 3: it's good to be back with you to this show. 12 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, no, it's wonderful to have you back 13 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 2: and we're very fortunate. So I wonder if we could 14 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 2: start by summarizing for listeners the things sort have happened 15 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 2: in the last few months in Rakaine State, because there 16 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 2: have been some massive changes since maybe listeners were last 17 00:00:58,640 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 2: aware of what was happening there. 18 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, sure, thank you. 19 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 3: Since the coup, there were on and off fights between 20 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 3: the Arcana Army and there and the Malasia Hunters process 21 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 3: in Rakaina State. However, in the interest of the of 22 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 3: the of the humanitary and neat, both parties came to 23 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 3: enter to a ceasefire agreement. 24 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 4: In between. However, the fight. 25 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 3: Against the military junta in me and Mark started in 26 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 3: different part of Me and Mark continued to be accelerating 27 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 3: and most recently the ten twenty seven and followed by 28 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 3: others operations in in Crimey estate has has been has 29 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 3: been quite rapidly spreading across the country and that's definitely 30 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 3: went through ra kinda state where resumed to target the 31 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 3: the the junta in its political objective to be to 32 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:57,559 Speaker 3: be reaching. 33 00:01:58,080 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 4: Uh. 34 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 3: That's the situations we are today that the Arkan Army 35 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 3: has been in very good positions to be dismantling the 36 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 3: Hunter's forces in our kind of state. And so far 37 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 3: since Operation twenty seven ten twenty seven Salad, more than 38 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 3: half of the township districts in our kinda state has 39 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 3: been ceased by the Arkhan Army, including some of those 40 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 3: were majority of Runa lifts. And it's continued to be 41 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 3: under in a very literating situations. 42 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, at the end, they've they've even sunk Hunter ships 43 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 2: or captured them in some cases. I think it's been 44 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 2: a bit of a that there was a video that 45 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 2: was quite like maybe not viruls around word certainly I 46 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 2: saw a lot but of border guard forces right, which 47 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 2: are like a militia's allied to the hunter, like fleeing 48 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 2: into Bangladesh. 49 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 3: This is another the border guard process are from mostly 50 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 3: from militaries, their train militaries, their uniforms are changed into 51 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 3: border guard force due to different agreement with that exists 52 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 3: between two states in allocating. It's true along the border 53 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 3: side and the border guard forces are one of the 54 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 3: most primary forces that's deported through Highen and run the 55 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 3: Rohingia's forces in twenty seven and make them flee. So 56 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 3: six years later as the same vdps who committed to 57 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 3: the crimes against the Rhinga atrocities that include crimes against 58 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 3: humanity and war crimes had to flee to Bangladesh in 59 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 3: a quite similar way to refuge. 60 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 4: And so it's sort of. 61 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 3: Karma or whatever you put it in a way and 62 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 3: the perceptions and reality of course when it's it's kind 63 00:03:56,040 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 3: of confrontations between the two groups are army and the military. 64 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 4: Countless sources. 65 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 3: The reality that has been defined by most of ours, 66 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 3: nimianmar and across that. We used to believe that the 67 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 3: Burmese military is a strong vote by human resource and equipment, 68 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 3: and then in reality they are very weak and our 69 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:20,119 Speaker 3: army has proved by dismantling a various battalion in country 70 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 3: battalion and even capturing alive like second ice commanding officer 71 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 3: in the whole of the kind of state. And also 72 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 3: many senior level officer has been has been killed over this. 73 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 3: That so the reality perception has been deeper on the 74 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 3: NMR military when we look it from from external perspective. 75 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think just in case listeners aren't familiar, 76 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 2: it can be very confusing if you don't read about 77 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 2: this stuff all the time. It's sort of the alphabet 78 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 2: soup of organizations, and especially with reference to Rahinga and 79 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 2: Rakind State, because we have of Hinga armed groups or 80 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 2: armed groups which drove mostly from Ahinga people that don't 81 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 2: necessarily represent them all. And then we have the AA. Son, 82 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 2: can you explain the AA's relationship to Rakind State and 83 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 2: then how they relate to Ahinga people. 84 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 4: A has been. 85 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 3: Established in two thousand and nine with aims to be 86 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 3: having confederations and not less than war, which is another 87 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 3: special regimes and more with a special autonomy, and it 88 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 3: has been led by some young people and it has 89 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 3: been quite a leadership as well within their kind political stuctrum, 90 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 3: and he has been growing very op italy and the 91 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 3: acceptance of the of the people, particularly kind people has 92 00:05:55,320 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 3: been very high. Therefore the resource allocations that he got 93 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 3: from human resource to other resources to be rapidly coping 94 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 3: with that group growth has been high, and that put 95 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 3: them in a position is to be standing in front 96 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 3: of a Hunta in a very stronger positions and defeat 97 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 3: them and very rapidly. And of course the Arkhan Army 98 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 3: which would refer here a SAE, is not as inclusive 99 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 3: as ra kind Ra kind of state is very diverse 100 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 3: and it has got a multiple ethnic group. The largest 101 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 3: ethnic group is Rakin religiously with these people and to 102 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 3: which the majority of army's leadership derived from there. And 103 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 3: the second largest majority, which are the Rwinga and Toroina, 104 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 3: are still the second largest majority in the rack kind 105 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 3: of states. Despite a milion being pushed off to Bangladesh 106 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 3: in twenty seventeen and several hundred thousand spreaded across the 107 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 3: region and the inclusivity in an Arcan army is still 108 00:06:58,960 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 3: still not there. 109 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 4: Uh. 110 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 3: When when we talk about Rhingia that's mean that there 111 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 3: might be some small small number of Rhingia's in different 112 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 3: battalions of Arkan Army and the administrative units that they're 113 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 3: building at a very crossroot level. 114 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 4: However, the the the Ringien. 115 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 3: Need to be included both by functions and in order 116 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 3: to have to describe that relationship and inclusively between the 117 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 3: Rhenia people and the Arkan Army. 118 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's that Arakan. Is that Rakhan is the 119 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 2: name of the area before it was called Rakay state? 120 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 2: Is that right? 121 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 4: Correct? 122 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 3: It's even it's before Burma became Burma. Arkhan I was 123 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 3: a king kingdom and it used to have its own 124 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 3: palace and it's diversity, it's high page and it's natural resources. 125 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 3: And then of course the Burmese colonizations happened to the 126 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 3: Burma and Uh and later on Urkan has been named 127 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 3: as rakinda state. 128 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it describes a geographical rather than ethnic identity, right, 129 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 2: which is distinct from some of the other revolutionary organizations 130 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 2: like Karrank or any or what have you. 131 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 3: I think there are similarities and as well as there 132 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 3: are differences when when when you put them together and 133 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 3: and from a diversity perspective, of a kind of state. 134 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 3: It's very diverse compared to other ethnic groups. And and 135 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 3: also it's politically very complex. Uh so the the, the the, 136 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 3: but over their overall similarities as well, like like you know, 137 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 3: all are fighting to defeat the hunter to Yea to 138 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 3: end the dictatorship in Melmar. But the the the, the 139 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 3: primary thing here is the self interminations and self autonomy, 140 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 3: like people want to decide to determine what is their 141 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 3: present and official look like, how they want to treat 142 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 3: with their past. 143 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 4: That's the the the the the aspect. But of course 144 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 4: the the like. 145 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 3: To my to the best of my knowledge, these ethnic 146 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 3: resistance organizations, both political and and and the armed groups 147 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 3: have never claimed that they want to separate from Yanmar'. Yes, 148 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 3: it's coming together in a different way. The holding together 149 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 3: would be in a different way. 150 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, And even when they speak to Bama people who 151 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 2: are like the majority ethnicity and the ethnicity from which 152 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 2: the junta's leadership had rule, and like they tell me, 153 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 2: they're committed to a federal and like a federal Mianma 154 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 2: with autonomy for these different regions and groups. And that's 155 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 2: something that has held that coalition together. 156 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, approximately more than fifty million populations in. 157 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 4: Majority are Aburmese Buddhists. 158 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 3: And they have been having this Buddhist supremacy and like 159 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 3: Bama's supremacy over ethnic and religious minorities across the country. 160 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 3: And of course Katchinker and others and went to desromine 161 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:02,559 Speaker 3: their picture by them and have the equality both their 162 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 3: functions and number. And that's where we're having these seventy 163 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 3: years long civil war. You know, that's came to collective 164 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:17,839 Speaker 3: revolutions in twenty twenty one, and history really speaking, people 165 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 3: have been fighting in Enmark for equality, justice and to 166 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 3: end the cycle of impunity for the last seventeen plus years. 167 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 2: Great. I think that's a great place to take our 168 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 2: first advertising break. All right, and we're back. I think 169 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 2: you did an excellent job of explaining the history the 170 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 2: Goddess here, and people will be very familiar with the 171 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 2: trustees committed by the Burmese military and its proxies against 172 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 2: Sirrhinga people, I hope. But one thing that's been happening 173 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 2: recently which are particularly appalling is the forced recruitment of 174 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 2: Behingar Peopleinga people buy that same military, right, can you 175 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 2: explain what's been going on. 176 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 3: So the conscriptions law has been reactivated. It has been 177 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 3: there large by the previous military catis, but it has 178 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,439 Speaker 3: not been active. And so since the Hunter has been 179 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 3: falling apart and collapsing, not only were kind of state 180 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 3: across the country there wherever they fight, they lose, and 181 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 3: they are battalions by battalion that's UH, that's running away 182 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 3: the to Thailand, running away to India, running away to 183 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 3: Bangladesh and and putting white black. And there are several casualties. 184 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 3: And apparently the Hunter became the largest military equipment supplier 185 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 3: to the to the revolutionary force. 186 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 4: Where we did not get we did. 187 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 3: Not get international support when when young people actually smadels 188 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 3: and writers point decided to go to the forest to 189 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 3: do to fight against this center, and there was little 190 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 3: to no international support. 191 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 4: And we have been struggling to to to equip ourselves 192 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 4: to fight this center. 193 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:23,319 Speaker 3: And and of course the the resilience and the courage 194 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:28,119 Speaker 3: that young people had and the tactical and strategy capacity 195 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 3: that the ethnic resistance organization had in combined became a factor. 196 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 3: UH to have an a strategic sourcing of the military 197 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 3: equipment and Hunter like battalion by battalion. You don't need 198 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 3: to buy the weapons and military tang and things like that. 199 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,719 Speaker 3: You you go and fight one battalion and they run 200 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 3: away or they die, and then you take over the 201 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 3: That's how the the whole old thing started in in 202 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 3: In Then when they are losing the they reactivated these 203 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 3: conscriptions law and started to in the interest of making 204 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,839 Speaker 3: mandustry everyone to be serving by force in the in 205 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 3: the military by chance. And of course when it's come 206 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 3: to a kind of state or a kind of state, 207 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 3: the six hundred thousand Ringa and t one hundred and 208 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,199 Speaker 3: fifty to sixty of them has been in concentration camp, 209 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 3: consolidated in one place with movement restrictions, no access to education, 210 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 3: healthcare and things like that, where they have been living 211 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 3: more than a decade in some of those camp and 212 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 3: villages where those people who are not in the camp 213 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 3: as well has been imposed by additional movement restrictions. So 214 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 3: you don't need to really go and mobilize people to 215 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 3: be forcefully recruiting. And at the beginning the junta went 216 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 3: to them and to give them sort of show them 217 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 3: incentive of like you will become the citizens and will 218 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:58,079 Speaker 3: give that and we'll give. 219 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 4: That and you need to fight against the. 220 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 3: The army and of course the grassroot. The leader community 221 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 3: leader responded in a way that they need to respond 222 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 3: to reject the requests from from the from the military. 223 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 3: Hometoend and Maliti started to of course imposed by using 224 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 3: the force. And as I mentioned earlier, they will need 225 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 3: to like when you have consolidated people that amount of 226 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 3: young people doing nothing and you just go and catch 227 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 3: them and put them on a truck, and some of 228 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 3: them don't know where they are going because their whole 229 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 3: life has been in this camp. Like when you're six 230 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 3: years old and you are now eighteen and it's mandustry 231 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 3: for you to be serving in the military, and you 232 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 3: don't know what is happening in our side of your camp. 233 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 3: Because so that's how really the the and then we 234 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 3: got these news and of course we have been talking 235 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 3: different community leaders and the community has been approaching to 236 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 3: us as a government and we make there are several 237 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 3: media coverage as well. Then the military started to see 238 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 3: these uh, these Bengalis are not not referring to the Hinga, 239 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 3: are not the citizens of Therefore there is no way 240 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 3: that we we we make them served in the in 241 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 3: the military. 242 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 4: So those are fakings that. 243 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 3: So they use these States propaganda TV channel and the 244 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 3: state newspaper which is now under control of SUCK to 245 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 3: deny that. And on seventh October, seventh sorry, seven March, 246 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:31,239 Speaker 3: the the those who they have kind of stripted, uh 247 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 3: more than five hundred has been brought into into the 248 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 3: commanding office of the Hunter to be training in full uniform. 249 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 3: Some of them those inside there has got managed to 250 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 3: get internet internet access and then said to me the 251 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 3: video footage what is happening on the inside there, So 252 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 3: I I posted that on my Twitter and and then 253 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 3: it's it's spread it from there and then we we 254 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 3: call them like their denial and it's the lives that 255 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 3: they have been putting by denying that when Ronio we're 256 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 3: not conscripted, ah was wrong. And then a few days 257 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 3: later they have been sent to the front line to 258 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 3: fight against a And then there are hundreds of those 259 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 3: ruhingas who were who died. 260 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 4: In this front line while and the Hunter. 261 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 3: Cake came back a few days later talking to their 262 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 3: family saying that okape hundred plus people. 263 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 4: Has died and we don't know who is who. 264 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 3: And when we bring your dad, buddy, you will will 265 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 3: be able to be identified. 266 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 4: And the first dead body that they brought. 267 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 3: And handed over to the clam the and the community 268 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 3: leader with one million jets which is three hundred and 269 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 3: fifty dollars plus one hundred kg of rice as an 270 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 3: incentive for the life that they have given in the fighting. 271 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 4: So that's the situations, and we can of course continue. 272 00:16:56,360 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very bleak, isn't it. So this and we've 273 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 2: seen just today actually people have been online today there 274 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 2: was a protest in Rapine State somewhere for a hindred 275 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 2: people rejecting the our economy. Can can you explain like 276 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 2: that might not be what it seems on the face 277 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 2: of it, right? Can can you explain what might be 278 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 2: happening there? 279 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,239 Speaker 3: The situations in ra kind of state has been very 280 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 3: much complex because there are there are hidden factors being 281 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 3: created are e officially created by the hunter. For so 282 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 3: long from the two thousand and twenty twelve twenty seventeen, 283 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 3: between these different communities, there has been always interdependency and 284 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 3: social equation to somewhat level. But HUNDA always used the 285 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 3: divide and rule methodology to bring the conflict between these 286 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 3: community and hate each other and then they can carry 287 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 3: out what they need to do as a powerholder. 288 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 4: And of course when. 289 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 3: The arconomy is getting greater control over the over kind 290 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 3: of state and the hunter is losing, UH, the the 291 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,919 Speaker 3: the Melochiy hunt and it used all tactics that they have, 292 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 3: including the the the UH, the intercommunal tensions and and 293 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 3: so they they are ruhinga few Ringia maybe who has 294 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:26,199 Speaker 3: businesses with these UH, this hunter are being used as 295 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 3: a proxy to push pressure of pressure on the Ruhingia 296 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 3: and to organize. And so that's why the protest started 297 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 3: a few years ago. UH in one of the townships 298 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 3: in the China state, we're eighty to ninety percent are 299 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 3: rowinga and claiming that we don't want war and we 300 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 3: don't want EE. And of course this can be happening 301 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 3: artificially organically, and it's so artificial, and anyone who looks 302 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 3: into this video footage, I can see that the Ruhingia 303 00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 3: never had in their life, like those who are protesting 304 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 3: never know what is means, freedom of expression means. And suddenly, 305 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 3: in one random morning, one hundred hundred of Ruwinga, including minors, children, 306 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 3: coming on the streets and protesting is is not something normal. 307 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 3: It can happen without without. 308 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 4: The uh uh. 309 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 3: And of course, majority of the of the Rhingia are 310 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 3: peace loving people and they want Burma to be an 311 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 3: inclusive federal democracy and they want. 312 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 4: To be part of it, and we are. 313 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 3: That's why I myself as a Ruhinga taking a leading 314 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 3: rule in in the government, as the first Ruhinga holding 315 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 3: back ministrial positions in the cabinet since. 316 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:41,640 Speaker 4: Nineteen sixty two. 317 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 3: And and and of course the the the Ruhingo equally 318 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 3: want the to end the dictatorship once and for all 319 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 3: because that very junta has been committing trustities, crimes, including 320 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 3: crimes against humanity and to genocides to Uringa. This is 321 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 3: the very same electry who deported a million ringer killed 322 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 3: more than twenty four thousands of people in burning children's 323 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 3: life in twenty seventeen. So in which way that ring 324 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 3: collectively will come and ascend with this shuna with the 325 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 3: whole country. So this is not this is really not 326 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 3: something organic, and this is artificial. This is too big 327 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 3: and this is so like hunter made to fit into 328 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 3: be fitting into their political propaganda. 329 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think one has to when we was 330 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 2: looking at things in MEMR be aware that the Hunter 331 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 2: just doesn't care about lying. It's something they've done for 332 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 2: a long time. I apparently can't download iHeart podcasts in 333 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,479 Speaker 2: Memo now, Like someone tried to download our podcast there 334 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 2: and so they had to use a VPN. But yeah, 335 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 2: they manipulate the media environment heavily, like you can read 336 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 2: Hunt newspapers and some of its comically false. But one 337 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,400 Speaker 2: thing I did want to talk about is like when 338 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 2: I talk to young PDS fighters, and I've spoken to 339 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 2: dozens of them now, people who are Koreni, people who 340 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 2: are Korene, people who are Bama, people who are Kitchin, 341 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 2: they a lot of them say to me that, like 342 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,199 Speaker 2: what happened in twenty seventeen was atrocious and at the 343 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 2: time they didn't realize because of this manipulated media environment, 344 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 2: they didn't realize that the way the Rahinda were being 345 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,880 Speaker 2: treated was so appalling, and that now they're very upset 346 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 2: about what happened. And like for them, I guess the 347 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:33,640 Speaker 2: litmus test for like a future for Burma is one 348 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 2: that can include Rahinja people and so like with that 349 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 2: in mind, I guess we've seen this kind of changing 350 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,919 Speaker 2: of language right where Previously they were referred to as 351 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 2: Bangladeshi and then now they're referred to as Muslim or 352 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 2: Hinga people. I guess can you just explain, like what 353 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 2: is the n UGPDF kind of like how how do 354 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,479 Speaker 2: we ensure in dependence and safety for a hanger people 355 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 2: in Myanmar in a federal democratic future without a dictatorship. 356 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 3: We're in a context of identity politics where the identity 357 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 3: is so much associated with very rights, whether it's political, social, 358 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 3: and economical right that you deserve and what you need 359 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 3: to give back as an active obliged citizens, and obligations 360 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 3: to the country that you belong. Therefore, the identity the 361 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 3: Rhinga is a primary thing for Ruhinga to be enjoying 362 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 3: equal freedom and to be able to contribute equally as 363 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 3: others in the nation building process. And of course before 364 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 3: twenty seventeen, even before that, there has been a lot 365 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 3: of misinformation, disinformations, propaganda are widespread state sponsored against the 366 00:22:53,400 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 3: Ruhinga to that could be a misleading and incitement of violence. 367 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 3: And and and the trum Bengali is a trum that's 368 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,719 Speaker 3: refer that you're coming from Bangladesh. 369 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 4: Illegally and you're illegally as you settling. That's how the 370 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 4: terms came direct from. 371 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 2: Its false it's a false accusation. 372 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 4: It's false accusations. 373 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 3: And the the the the Ruhingia people has existed in 374 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 3: the kind of states side by side with your kind people, 375 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,880 Speaker 3: even Burma became Burma and their historical facts that there 376 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 3: are so many undeniable things that you could you could 377 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 3: look into and into into various historical facts, and so 378 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 3: the the in between. Of course, the Rhingia the trum 379 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 3: become illegal and the military denied it, rejected it, and 380 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 3: then they started to use the Troum Bengali and the 381 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 3: most of the Burmese people fall into that trap. And 382 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 3: even somewhere either silent thing in this horrific genocideal attack 383 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 3: in twenty seven in or somewhere taking sight of a 384 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 3: military at that time that it's okay to kill and 385 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 3: it's okay to and of course these are being being 386 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 3: propelled by all misinformations and disinformation that our earlier mentioned and. 387 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 4: Twenty one attempted could happened. 388 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 3: And that's where a new perspective is being offered to 389 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 3: the people of me and Mar because the same military 390 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 3: that has been carrying out atrocities clans against the Rhingia 391 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 3: and other minorities came to larger Ma people doing the 392 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 3: same thing. 393 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 4: So what has been told to us by. 394 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 3: The Ruhinga and the religious and ethnic minority in Enmar 395 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 3: for the decade came to be true. And that's how 396 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 3: the acceptance of the Ruhinga has started to grow. Of course, 397 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 3: it's not to the level that we would be satisfied 398 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:55,360 Speaker 3: with yet. It's a process and there is so much 399 00:24:55,400 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 3: to unlearn because one provoking factor like attempted to should 400 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 3: like wouldn't fix a problem that has been there for 401 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 3: for decades. 402 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 4: And a National Unity. 403 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 3: Government declared that we accept the chum Ruhinga, and there 404 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 3: has been a policy stating very clearly in twenty twenty 405 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 3: one June, and that policy to be implemented of course 406 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 3: when the situation is conducive and there are significant challenges 407 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 3: with the territorial control and things like that when it's come. 408 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 4: But again, the momentum that. 409 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 3: I mentioned we got as a result of extreme evolutions 410 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 3: need to be maintained in the higher scale. That's not 411 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 3: only the Ruhinga and anything that's wrong, that's primarily that's 412 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,640 Speaker 3: principle and value are strong. I need to be able 413 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,719 Speaker 3: to see it wrong, regardless of whoever it is, and 414 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 3: regardless of race and religion. If we are talking about 415 00:25:55,480 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 3: federal inclusive democracy, we cannot preach our people or international 416 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 3: community saying that support us or asking for support or 417 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 3: be a part of this movement where we see a 418 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 3: sepri floud fishers and inclusive federal democracy. We're actual values 419 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 3: that we are not practicing by ourselves. So before we preach, 420 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 3: we need to we need to act upon those principles 421 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 3: by ourselves. And overall, I would say, the all the 422 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,959 Speaker 3: loss that we had, including life and livelihood, that hundred 423 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 3: and hundred of people, thousands of people has been killed, jailed, 424 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 3: and hundreds of people villagers, township has been destroyed, the 425 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 3: good thing that we got is the the these consciousness 426 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 3: on the morality. 427 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 4: Uh. 428 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 3: And if we're able to accelerate that consciousness at the 429 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 3: greatest scale, that's. 430 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 4: Where we will. 431 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 3: Be able to maintain the values and principle of the 432 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 3: inclusive federal democracy. 433 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 4: That will be the pillar to maintain this as a process. 434 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so it's really fast neating to talk 435 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 2: to young people. I was talking to some mandal a 436 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 2: PDF people not so long ago, and they were like, 437 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 2: oh yeah, well, when we left, we were told that 438 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,439 Speaker 2: like the Tang would hate us because we're Burmese and 439 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,360 Speaker 2: they would fight us. And then they're like, oh, they're 440 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 2: really nice, Like this is a guy right next to me, 441 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 2: and they're like because they're joined up together. Now the 442 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,679 Speaker 2: PDFs and and the eros are largely fighting side by 443 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 2: side against is there like the PDF forces present in 444 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 2: rakind state as well. 445 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 3: No, there is Arkan Army particularly which is an allies 446 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 3: with the with the we have been there have been 447 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 3: multiple intric like you know, there are we have Alliance 448 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 3: Relations Committee that we deal with all the alliance as 449 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 3: National Unity Government and of course they have been playing 450 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,199 Speaker 3: in an important role in defeating the content. And there 451 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 3: is no PDF in the Kinda state. 452 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so it's a little different there. Other often 453 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 2: the PDF and the eras are very similar in fight 454 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 2: sorr by side. 455 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 4: Also, our army is not tracked alone in the kind 456 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:05,680 Speaker 4: Of state. 457 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 3: They're almost also in in Sharna State and they're yes 458 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 3: fighting with not only in the China state. So like 459 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 3: when we talk about like even though the physical epidios 460 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 3: are not there, it doesn't mean that there is no 461 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 3: military connect to military connections between the ethnic organizations that 462 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 3: exists across the country. 463 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, and like we've seen that a lot since October, 464 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,120 Speaker 2: and like since the Three brother Alliance started their campaign. 465 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 2: That moves hunter forces to one place, and that allows 466 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,959 Speaker 2: other people like the Kareni to take advantage of the 467 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 2: way those forces have moved and they've liberated huge parts 468 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 2: of their territory. So okay, it's all joined, I guess. 469 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 4: Yeah. 470 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 3: The tricky part that they have used in the past 471 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 3: is like hidden cut, is that they will do sea 472 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 3: fight in one part of the country and they will 473 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 3: allocate all of their resources in another part of the country, 474 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 3: and where they will defeat or they will at least 475 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 3: like come to bargaining positions. 476 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 4: Let's not quite anymore. 477 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 3: And and you stay where you are and don't don't 478 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,239 Speaker 3: try to like you know, and and it's Funta who 479 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 3: violate again all all these agreements that usually sell. And 480 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 3: this time it's so coordinated across the country that the 481 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:30,719 Speaker 3: Junta cannot be able to position themselves or estrategize themselves 482 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 3: or foot then themselves in the tactical positions. Their old 483 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 3: tactic did not work in the modern coordinations of the 484 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 3: PDF and Ethnic Resistance Organization. Yeah. 485 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 2: No, They've tried multiple times to have regular individuals fires 486 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 2: and it hasn't worked. So I wanted to ask just 487 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 2: to finish up. People I think who listen to this 488 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 2: will be very familiar the situation in Miyama, and they 489 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 2: want to help, and they see that the international community 490 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 2: is doing nothing, and I think a lot of people 491 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 2: are rightly very upset about that. So what can people 492 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 2: do to help and especially to advocate for Rhinga people. 493 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 4: Particularly when it's come to the Rhindia people. 494 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 3: Ringa people crisis is so much interconnected with Burmese democratization process. 495 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 3: Ruhindia will not be able to have a life that dignified, say, 496 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 3: and in their place of origin unless the Burma is 497 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 3: solely in the hand of a civilian government. So the 498 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 3: democratization process that whole ver is attempting to make need 499 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 3: to be supported by international community. 500 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 4: As I mentioned. 501 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 3: Earlier, so far we got little to no international support. 502 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 3: And on the Ruhinga crisis as well. There's one million 503 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 3: people in Bangladesh where their Russians are cuts to eight 504 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 3: dollars per month per person and which is a couple 505 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 3: of in the United States and and UH, and there 506 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 3: is a greater danger of hunger, restorvations and malnitary nutrition 507 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 3: and UH and so many other social economic problems that 508 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 3: would have an impact on the regional security stability and 509 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 3: things like that if the shortfall remains UH funding short 510 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 3: call remains for for for for for for the for 511 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 3: the nia that's on the humanustrian and and of course 512 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 3: Rhingia need to be politically organized in order to be 513 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 3: to be fitting into the changing political dynamics of mr. 514 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 4: Uringia has been oppressed. 515 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 3: They were not able to form study organizations, they were 516 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 3: not able to be educating themselves. So all these societial 517 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 3: leadership aspect need to be supported, including having a company 518 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 3: like having an organized political platform for for Ringa which 519 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 3: will be able to represent Shuringa in the larger polity table, 520 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 3: ensuring their voices are hard and they able to equally 521 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 3: take the rights that they deserve. 522 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 4: And more importantly equal equally. 523 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 3: Able to contribute to a decision that will have an 524 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 3: impact on their life. And the United States has determined 525 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 3: the crimes against Ruhinga as genocide two years before. And 526 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 3: of course the genocide discrimination does not simply is an announcement. 527 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 3: It's come with the moral and legal responsibility. So we 528 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 3: do want to require the United States and it's people 529 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 3: to formally extent on the moral and legal obligations that 530 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 3: it has in ensuring that the Ruhinga are able to 531 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 3: live equally peacefully and more importantly, the justice that they 532 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 3: deserve on the on the physical and mental damage that 533 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 3: happened as part of the genocide. And it was picked 534 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 3: in twenty seventeen, it's continued to be happening today and 535 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 3: even today one hundred and fifty people were arriving in Archi, Indonesia, 536 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 3: where the Indonesian people who were showing greater humanity in 537 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 3: opening their arms and parts to be accepting Ruhinga, are 538 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 3: denying the Rhinga. So for the Ruhinga, there is little 539 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 3: to no space to be accommodated, both in regional and 540 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 3: international and local setting, and it is very important that 541 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 3: we are able to tackle and navigate these issues together 542 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 3: with the international community in an innovative, effective, efficient and 543 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 3: sustainable way for the sake of humanity. And there are 544 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 3: competing priorities across the world, but the international community is 545 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 3: we are so aware that international community is capable of 546 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 3: doing more than one thing at a time. 547 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 4: It doesn't have to be either. 548 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 2: All, No, it can be both, and it should be right. 549 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 2: Like obviously people are very concerned with the plight of 550 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 2: Palestinian people, rightly so at the moment. But yes, we 551 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 2: should remember that as a Muslim people have been subject 552 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 2: to genocide for the last needed for seven years, I suppose, 553 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 2: and it's ongoing, and they deserve our support and solidarity 554 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 2: as well. Yeah, I hope, yeah, yeah, I mean it 555 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 2: does seem like, I guess a little more hopeful than 556 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 2: it was even a couple of years ago that there 557 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 2: will be a democratic. 558 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 3: Mean, and. 559 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, the journey is. 560 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 3: Is almost think and what we need is greater international support. 561 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 3: Like support doesn't mean just you know, releasing the statement, 562 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 3: meaningful comprehensive support that we are able to defeat this 563 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,760 Speaker 3: Manta once and for all, for the sake of people 564 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 3: of me and Mark fifty plus million people giving the 565 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 3: price at the highest possible price in their life that 566 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,719 Speaker 3: include again the lives and livelihood. An international community was 567 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 3: not doing more than condemnations for releasing a statement of 568 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 3: concern over the last three years, so it's time to 569 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,319 Speaker 3: act and an international community again has to answer this 570 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 3: question to next generations when there's a questions on the 571 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 3: morality we're the international community when the genocide comes against 572 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,720 Speaker 3: community and war came has been happening two million anything 573 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 3: some people in the eyes of international community. 574 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I hope they do. And it's incredible the 575 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,799 Speaker 2: progress that has been made without that support. And I 576 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 2: think it's just incredible to me that even I remember 577 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one talking to people who were just 578 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 2: beginning their fight, and to see how far they've come 579 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:48,760 Speaker 2: is outstanding. Yeah, and yeah, people should be very proud 580 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,400 Speaker 2: of that. But it doesn't mean that they don't need 581 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 2: more support. 582 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 3: They do. 583 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 2: Doesn't mean that they don't need surface to our missiles. 584 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 4: They do. Like, yeah, that it's the. 585 00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 2: Thing that we should be doing. Thank you so much 586 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 2: for joining us. We really appreciate your time and you're 587 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 2: insight into this. Is there anywhere where people can find 588 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 2: you online if they were to. 589 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 3: Follow on Yeah, they can follow me on my tutor 590 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:12,280 Speaker 3: and Facebook and. 591 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 4: It's my tutor is a K two okay, and my 592 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 4: Facebook is like my name. If you type my it 593 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 4: will appear. So yeah, yeah, looking forward to seeing you 594 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 4: in the near future. Yeah. Thanks, thank you, thank you 595 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:32,919 Speaker 4: for having me. 596 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:33,800 Speaker 2: You're welcome. 597 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 1: It could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. 598 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,880 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 599 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 1: cool zonemedia dot com or check us out on the 600 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 601 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated 602 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 1: monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.