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Speaker 1: Everybody's trying to fix their finances with a math formula,

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Speaker 1: and if you were doing math, you wouldn't be in

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Speaker 1: credit card debt. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose,

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Speaker 1: the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to

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Speaker 1: each and every single one of you that come back

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Speaker 1: every week to listen, learn and grow. Now you know

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Speaker 1: that I'm on a mission to serve you and help

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Speaker 1: you build incredible lives three sixty degrees. And one of

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Speaker 1: those things is to focus on areas where I can

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Speaker 1: bring in experts who have incredible insight, research and years

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Speaker 1: of experience so that I can share that with you.

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Speaker 1: And this person is someone who have followed for a

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Speaker 1: long time. He's someone that I've wanted to have on

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Speaker 1: the show for a long time. I feel extremely honored

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Speaker 1: and grateful to introduce our guest today, who is none

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Speaker 1: other than Dave Ramsey, an eight time number one national

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Speaker 1: best selling author, personal finance expert and host of The

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Speaker 1: Ramsey Show, heard by more than twenty three million listeners

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Speaker 1: each week. If you have not subscribed already, make sure

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Speaker 1: you do. He's appeared on Good Morning America, CBS Mornings,

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Speaker 1: Today's Show, Fox News, CNN, Fox Business, and many more.

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Speaker 1: Since nineteen ninety two, Davis help people regain control of

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Speaker 1: their money, build wealth, and enhance their lives. He also

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Speaker 1: serves as the CEO for the company Ramsey Solutions. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the show, Dave Ramsey, and today we're talking about

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Speaker 1: his new book, Baby Steps Millionaires, which I highly recommend

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Speaker 1: you go and grab a copy of. We'll have the

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Speaker 1: link to order it in the caption and in the comments. Dave,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. Wow, I'm on the Jay Shetty Show.

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Speaker 1: This is awesome, ma'am. You're a big deal. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for having me. It's the other way around for me

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Speaker 1: to me you're the big deal. So I feel really

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Speaker 1: grateful that you said yes. And you know, for me,

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Speaker 1: supporting my community having great financial health is a really

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Speaker 1: important part of my mission. And who better to go

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Speaker 1: to than news, So you know, I'm really grateful that

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Speaker 1: I get to connect my community with you. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: many of them are ordery listeners anyway. But Dave, you know,

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Speaker 1: let's let's start learning a bit more about you and

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Speaker 1: your journey. I want to hear about when Dave wasn't

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Speaker 1: the financial expert that he is, Like, what were your mindsets?

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Speaker 1: What was your relationship like with money, when it wasn't

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Speaker 1: where it is today. I grew up in a household

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Speaker 1: of entrepreneurs, and so they taught us that you can

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Speaker 1: do it. All you've got to do is leave the cave,

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Speaker 1: kill something, and drag it home. I mean, there's that

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Speaker 1: you can go out there and make something in this world,

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Speaker 1: and that the free enterprise system is not broken, and

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Speaker 1: it's tough, it's hard, but you can do it. And

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Speaker 1: so I believe that, and I still believe it. And

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Speaker 1: I went and got my real estate license when I

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Speaker 1: turned eighteen, and when I graduated from college, I started

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Speaker 1: buying and selling real estate, and starting from nothing, I

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Speaker 1: got rid, at least by a kid from Antioch, Tennessee standards.

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Speaker 1: I ended up with about four million dollars with a

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Speaker 1: real estate and a little over a two million dollars

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Speaker 1: or a little over a million dollars net worth. I

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Speaker 1: was making a couple of hundred thousand dollars a year now,

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Speaker 1: that's in nineteen eighty two, twenty thousand bucks a month

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Speaker 1: from the neighborhood I grew up in that's called rich,

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Speaker 1: and so we were having a blast. But I'd borrowed

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Speaker 1: too much money. And the short version of the story

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Speaker 1: is the bank got sold to another bank. They called

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Speaker 1: our notes. We were doing flip this house before Chip

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Speaker 1: and Joanna were born, and so you know, we the

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Speaker 1: bank called our notes, and we spent the next two

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Speaker 1: and a half years of our life losing everything we owned.

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Speaker 1: We were sued and foreclosed on, and with a brand

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Speaker 1: new baby and a marriage hanging on by a thread,

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Speaker 1: we had the opportunity to start over after bankruptcy, and

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Speaker 1: it was it was brutal. It was brutal, It was

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Speaker 1: gut wrenching, it was life defining, and it was at

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Speaker 1: the time the worst thing that had ever happened to

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Speaker 1: me at all, the worst trauma to not be able

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Speaker 1: to keep your word, to your integrity, just crushed by

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Speaker 1: your stupidity, and it was I come from an honor culture,

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Speaker 1: and it's just it's a horrible thing. And so obviously,

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Speaker 1: now thirty years later, I realized it's the best thing

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Speaker 1: that ever happened to me because I learned a whole

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Speaker 1: new way of looking at money. I realized that borrowing

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Speaker 1: money was a bad plan. And we've since been able

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Speaker 1: to put lots of data to that, and millions of

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Speaker 1: lives to that idea, that the idea of if you

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Speaker 1: don't have any payments, you've got money and you can

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Speaker 1: build some wealth. And so we began a debt free

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Speaker 1: life at twenty eight years old and I'm sixty two,

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Speaker 1: so it's worked out pretty well. That's incredible, Dave. I mean,

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Speaker 1: as you said, you've been talking to people about their

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Speaker 1: money for thirty years on the Ramsey Show. You've given,

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Speaker 1: you know, help so many people over those decades. Are

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Speaker 1: you hearing new financial problems today or is it the

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Speaker 1: same ones repeated over and over again. Is there a

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Speaker 1: new challenge, a newish or are we stuck in a

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Speaker 1: similar mindset over the last three decades. There's the problem

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Speaker 1: and then there's the symptom. The symptoms are always new.

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Speaker 1: You know, a bitcoin I get rich opportunity, right, that's

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Speaker 1: a new symptom. You know, There's been all kinds of

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Speaker 1: symptoms pop up over the years that are different. There's

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Speaker 1: a period of time where credit card debt was the

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Speaker 1: most awful thing on the planet. Then there was a

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Speaker 1: period of time where student loans are the most awful

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Speaker 1: thing on the planet. And you know, the thing that

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Speaker 1: is holding down the middle class, the thing, there's crushing

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Speaker 1: families and these kinds of things. And then there was

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Speaker 1: a period of time in two thousand and eight when

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Speaker 1: the mortgages were failing and the real estate market failed,

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Speaker 1: and so we've seen all these things, but they're basically

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Speaker 1: those are all symptoms and underlying all of that, again

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Speaker 1: it very similar to your insights, is the idea that

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Speaker 1: principles have been violated. When you violate principles, you're going

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Speaker 1: to get these symptoms. They'll have all kinds, are different

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Speaker 1: colors and looks to them, but they're the same root cause. Dave,

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Speaker 1: you know you've talked about this a lot through your book,

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Speaker 1: through your work, through a number of your books, about

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Speaker 1: how we don't really get educated on these ideas in school,

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Speaker 1: and you must find it shocking that across thirty years

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Speaker 1: that hasn't massively changed. What is it that you think

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Speaker 1: we're missing out on at school? What are the key

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Speaker 1: principles as you were mentioning that you need to learn

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Speaker 1: at school, or that you need to learn to start

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Speaker 1: so that you can have a healthy relationship with your

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Speaker 1: finances and money. Well, there's a level of mythology that

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Speaker 1: has been spread about money in our culture, that was

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Speaker 1: spread with an agenda. Frankly, it was all if I

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Speaker 1: was a bank, I would teach everyone that they needed

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Speaker 1: a credit score. And the reason I would teach them

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Speaker 1: they need a credit score, and the way to get

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Speaker 1: a credit score is to borrow money from me and

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Speaker 1: pay it back to me so that you can raise

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Speaker 1: your score. So you can borrow money from me, so

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Speaker 1: you can pay it back to me, so you can

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Speaker 1: raise your score. So you can borrow money from me,

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Speaker 1: so you can pay it back to me, so you

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Speaker 1: can raise your score. It's a great plan if you're

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Speaker 1: a bank. And so, but then it was put out

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Speaker 1: there that now the FCO score is like biblical truth

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Speaker 1: or something, and it's not. It was a it's a

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Speaker 1: banking program to get people to borrow money. But now

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Speaker 1: and so what's happened with some financial literacy programs in

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Speaker 1: schools is that they're going to teach you to build

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Speaker 1: your FICO score because that's been accepted now as norm

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Speaker 1: rather than as rather than actual fact. Well, it's accepted

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Speaker 1: it's fact, even though it's not a fact. And so

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Speaker 1: what we've done is what we have. I mean, our

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Speaker 1: antidote would be to say, okay, we're gonna teach people

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Speaker 1: to live on a budget and how to do a budget.

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Speaker 1: We're going to teach them to live on less than

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Speaker 1: they make, concept Congress can't grasp. We're gonna teach them

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Speaker 1: to to be generous, outlandishly generous, and we're gonna teach

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Speaker 1: them to save and invest in the power of compound interest.

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Speaker 1: And these things are agnostic to the banking community, and

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Speaker 1: so we don't have to infiltrate the lending community and

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Speaker 1: the people the pieces of the financial industry that have

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Speaker 1: an agenda into this curriculum. But basically, a lot of

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Speaker 1: teachers have been indoctrinated by the culture that this is

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Speaker 1: the way you have to live. You're always going to

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Speaker 1: have a car payment, you have to have a credit card,

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Speaker 1: you can't be a student without a student loan, and

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Speaker 1: then they bring that into the classroom because they personally

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Speaker 1: have been taught this. But when you back it out

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Speaker 1: and say, well, the teaching is with an agenda, then

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Speaker 1: you have to stop and go there's a villain in

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Speaker 1: this story. And so instead we need to be teaching

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Speaker 1: the basic premise of common sense. And the good news

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Speaker 1: is we've actually gotten our high school curriculum, and about

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Speaker 1: forty eight percent of the high schools in America so far.

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Speaker 1: So we're waking up a few people here and there.

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Speaker 1: We're causing a bit of a ruckus, But certainly the

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Speaker 1: banks and those kinds of folks are not happy about

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Speaker 1: that because we're teaching people not to borrow money. I

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Speaker 1: actually had that experience. So I grew up in a

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Speaker 1: house where my parents never wanted us to be in debt,

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Speaker 1: So I didn't even know what a credit card was,

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Speaker 1: quite frankly, growing up, and we only ever used debit cards.

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Speaker 1: And so when I moved to the United States from

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Speaker 1: London and I went to buy a car, they wouldn't

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Speaker 1: give it to me because I didn't have a credit score.

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Speaker 1: Now I had enough money to buy that car, maybe

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Speaker 1: ten twenty times if I wanted to, but they wouldn't

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Speaker 1: let me because I didn't have the credit score. And

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Speaker 1: so I had to get into this habit of building

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Speaker 1: up that credit score in the same way. And that

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Speaker 1: was massively different for me because I just never been

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Speaker 1: in that mindset. So when you say that, it resonates

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Speaker 1: with me very strongly because I just couldn't imagine ever

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Speaker 1: feeling like I owed people well that I was buying

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Speaker 1: things with money that wasn't mine because of the way

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Speaker 1: I'd been raised around it. I mean, what's the craziest

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Speaker 1: financial situation that you've ever heard on the show? Like,

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Speaker 1: what's something that really blows your mind? And you go,

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Speaker 1: and this is crazy For Dave Ramsey, the line that

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Speaker 1: we always use, and it's true, is I haven't borrowed

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Speaker 1: money in thirty years, so I don't have a credit score.

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Speaker 1: Mine's undeterminable or zero. And so the joke is and

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Speaker 1: it's it's the truth. If I go down to her

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Speaker 1: local apartment complex and there's a sweet little twenty six

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Speaker 1: year old apartment manager that is corporate has told her

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Speaker 1: what to do, and they require a FICO score to rent,

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Speaker 1: I can't rent an apartment there. Now, I'm a multi millionaire.

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Speaker 1: I can write a check and buy the complex, but

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Speaker 1: I can't rent an apartment there. Now, that's that's just

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Speaker 1: as and I that's just ridiculous. And so that that

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Speaker 1: illustrates the absurdity of this as far as the crazy

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Speaker 1: stuff on the show. Oh my goodness, I mean we

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Speaker 1: do we do three hours a day for twenty for

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Speaker 1: thirty years. Now, I mean it's We've had crazy on

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Speaker 1: parade at times. And the thing I have to try

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Speaker 1: to do laugh because I've done so many stupid things.

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Speaker 1: I've got a pH d in d unb was when

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Speaker 1: somebody calls with something stupid, we just laughed together. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm not shaming them, but oh my gosh, I mean

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Speaker 1: people with it just I mean I had a guy

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Speaker 1: with a million dollars in credit card debt one time.

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Speaker 1: How do you do that? I mean that was like

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Speaker 1: a full time job to pull that off. And we've

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Speaker 1: had lots of people with hundreds of thousands of dollars

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Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff. And so, you know, you get

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Speaker 1: stupid on steroids and it just explodes, It gets exponential,

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Speaker 1: and it's really you know, it's it's crazy humorous because

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Speaker 1: it's so absurd. But you know, also while you're talking

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Speaker 1: to him, it's just sad because they're completely trapped and

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Speaker 1: how am I going to get this? Uh, this young

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Speaker 1: dentist that's in one of our documentaries, it's got a

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Speaker 1: million in student loan debt and how am I gonna?

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Speaker 1: How am I gonna help him get out of that. Oh,

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Speaker 1: it's just heartbreaking. Yeah, I mean those stories as you said, like,

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Speaker 1: I love that you create this open, welcoming space for

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Speaker 1: people to feel heard, feel seen, and like you said,

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Speaker 1: we've we've all made mistakes. But then at the same time,

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Speaker 1: I really how you give very specific strategic advice for

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Speaker 1: people to get out of those places. Now, your new book,

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Speaker 1: Baby Steps Millionaire, like what I really love about and

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Speaker 1: what I want to do on this podcast because I

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Speaker 1: want to kind of touch on each of the chapters

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Speaker 1: because whenever someone has a book out and I deeply

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Speaker 1: value books. Books have changed my life. I believe they

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Speaker 1: absolutely transformative. They start incredible journeys. I believe yours is

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Speaker 1: going to do this for so many people. It already has.

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Speaker 1: But with this book, your first chapter is called can

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Speaker 1: Anyone Be a Millionaire? And I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: people grow up with the feeling that they will never

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Speaker 1: be one. They're not planning for that, and they don't

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Speaker 1: even think about that. I would say that I grew

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Speaker 1: up with that mindset too, because of the family that

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Speaker 1: Tell us a bit about that question and why you

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Speaker 1: take the approach you do to that. Answering that question, well,

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Speaker 1: it's an important place to start because it's one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons we wrote the book. We've got a group

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Speaker 1: of in America I call them hope stealers, who are

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Speaker 1: saying that it's impossible to win. Now, it's impossible to win.

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Speaker 1: There's too many systemic problems, there's too many things that

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Speaker 1: are broken in the culture and in the economy that

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Speaker 1: the little it's the ultimate line, the little man can't

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Speaker 1: get ahead thing. And yet I kept running into millionaires

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Speaker 1: everywhere who were first generation. They started with nothing, they

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Speaker 1: did not inherit their money. And then I started running

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Speaker 1: into them that have followed our baby steps. That's why

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Speaker 1: we named it baby Steps millionaires that became millionaires. And

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Speaker 1: so I thought, I've got this, all this data and

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Speaker 1: anecdotal evidence both on one side that it is possible,

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Speaker 1: and I've got these hope steelers out here telling people

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Speaker 1: they can't do it and stealing their hope. And so

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Speaker 1: I thought, well, you know, the first thing we got

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Speaker 1: to do is we have to fix that. Because it's

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Speaker 1: the old Henry Ford line. If you think you can

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Speaker 1: or you think you can't, you're probably right. And so

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Speaker 1: you know you have to. And I'm if I think

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Speaker 1: I can be in the NBA, I'm wrong. I can't. Okay,

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Speaker 1: there's a chance I don't have the physical skills. I'm

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Speaker 1: an old guy with a pot belly. It's not happening, right,

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Speaker 1: So that's ridiculous. But when it comes to overtime, can

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Speaker 1: I have a successful marriage even though maybe in your

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Speaker 1: past there's not one in your family tree? Over time?

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Speaker 1: Can I raise good kids even though in most of

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Speaker 1: your family tree no one turns out? Can you break

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Speaker 1: that chain? And if you don't believe you can, you

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Speaker 1: won't take the steps to do the hard work to

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Speaker 1: be successful in that area, that compartment the department of

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Speaker 1: your life. And money's no exception to that. And money's

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Speaker 1: particularly weird in the spiritual in that in this area

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Speaker 1: of belief, because it just it will run from you.

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Speaker 1: You can't catch it. You know, if you don't believe,

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Speaker 1: because you won't do that, you won't do the sacrificial things.

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Speaker 1: You won't live like no one else so that later

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Speaker 1: you can live and give like no one else. There's

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Speaker 1: no reason a farmer would ever go out and toil

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Speaker 1: in the sun and plow the field and get the

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Speaker 1: stumps out and the rocks out and then put corn

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Speaker 1: in the ground. If he didn't think corn was going

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Speaker 1: to come up after he did that, that would be absurd.

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Speaker 1: Only a crazy person would do something that they don't

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Speaker 1: think is going to turn out. And so you have

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Speaker 1: to believe first. And so what we try to do

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Speaker 1: is we try to bring emotional behavior data of other

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Speaker 1: people and math and any kind of a lens I

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Speaker 1: can get you to look through to make you believe

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Speaker 1: that you can do it. I know you can do it,

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Speaker 1: but I've got to convince you you can do it

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Speaker 1: before we can move into the tactical steps. Yeah, and whatever.

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Speaker 1: Some of those what would you say the mindsets or

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Speaker 1: the traps that keep people broke where you are having

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Speaker 1: to convince people that they can What are those things

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Speaker 1: that keep us in that mindset? I think we become

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Speaker 1: number one who we hang around with, there's any question

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Speaker 1: about that. So you have to be careful, uh. And

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Speaker 1: I'm not talking about being snobbish to someone. We're not.

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Speaker 1: I'm nice to anybody. I'll talk to anybody about any

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Speaker 1: I'm happy. But I'm talking about your crew, the people

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Speaker 1: that are your inner circle. Who do you hang with

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Speaker 1: your income is going to approximate. There's over time, your

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Speaker 1: physical condition. If they if they're all overweight, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: be overweight. If they take if they take care of

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Speaker 1: their bodies, you're gonna take care of your body. If

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Speaker 1: they have good marriages, you're gonna good married you. You're

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Speaker 1: going to become who you hang around. You even gonna

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Speaker 1: have an accent like they do, you know, and you're

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Speaker 1: gonna read the books that they read. And so number one,

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Speaker 1: you need to get yourself in a community of people

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Speaker 1: who are achievers, who believe it can be done, who

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Speaker 1: understand it's tough, and I'll encourage you when you're having

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Speaker 1: a hard one game. I mean some of us have

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Speaker 1: had a hard couple of years here, A lot of

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Speaker 1: us have, you know. And so you gotta have guys

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Speaker 1: and gals in your corner that say, golf champ, you

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Speaker 1: got this, you can do it. I got your back, man.

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Speaker 1: And so that's so much different than growing up in

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Speaker 1: a neighborhood where my parents were saying you can do this,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of kids I ran around with their

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Speaker 1: parents were saying, well a little man can't get ahead.

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Speaker 1: You're always going to have a car payment. You're stuck.

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Speaker 1: People like us, you know, people that have a Southern accent.

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Speaker 1: They're Hillbillies and rednecks. We don't get ahead. We just

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Speaker 1: we just we just uh, you know, give the middle

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Speaker 1: finger salute to the man and we move on. And

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Speaker 1: you can do that from any racial background, any cultural background.

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Speaker 1: There's a group of people that that declare themselves stuck.

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Speaker 1: Then there's also a group of people within that same

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Speaker 1: community and that same tribe. It's a smaller group that

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Speaker 1: declare that it's possible to be free, it's possible to prosper,

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Speaker 1: it's possible, and it's victims or victors. And the neat

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Speaker 1: thing is that once you begin to kind of get

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Speaker 1: that inside of you, anyone can just make that choice.

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Speaker 1: I decide, and here we go. With Masterclass, you can

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Speaker 1: learn from the world's best minds, anytime, anywhere, and at

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Speaker 1: cooking skills and learn how to cook restaurant inspired dishes

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Speaker 1: own personal brand business empire from christ Jenna. With over

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Speaker 1: one hundred classes from a range of world class instructors.

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Speaker 1: That thing you've always wanted to do is closer than

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Speaker 1: access to a renowned instructor in whatever field you're interested in.

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Speaker 1: Each class is broken out into individual video lessons, usually

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Speaker 1: around ten minutes long, so you can explore at your

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Speaker 1: own pace. Each class is supported by downloadable lessons, recipes,

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Speaker 1: and whatever supplemental materials you need. Lessons are available anytime

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Speaker 1: anywhere on iOS, Android, desktop, Apple TV, Amazon Fire TV,

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Speaker 1: and Oku. I recently checked out The Power of Empathy

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Speaker 1: by Pharrell Williams and a few other instructors. I was

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Speaker 1: blown away by the depth of knowledge and the quality

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Speaker 1: of the experience each of these masters have in their

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Speaker 1: respective fields. And because it's not necessary to sit down

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Speaker 1: and consume a four class from start to finish, sharing

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Speaker 1: insights from individual lessons or what you were able to

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Speaker 1: learn in ten minutes is great too. It's super easy

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Speaker 1: or even TV and I love their new audio mode

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Speaker 1: Go to Masterclass dot com forward slash on purpose. Now

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Speaker 1: that's masterclass dot com forward slash on Purpose for fifteen

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Speaker 1: percent off Masterclass. I think you're spot on. I think

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Speaker 1: you're absolutely right, And you know, I know what that

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Speaker 1: feels like, because that's the culture I grew up in.

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Speaker 1: I grew up around that culture that didn't believe and

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Speaker 1: that often saw money as evil or we always believe

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Speaker 1: that people who had money must have done something sketchy

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Speaker 1: to get it, or they weren't really living a life

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Speaker 1: of integrity. And so that was the mindset that was

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Speaker 1: built up for a long long time that had to

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Speaker 1: be massively unlearned and unraveled. And I wish I had

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Speaker 1: you at that time. I didn't, but you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: glad that we do today. I think you mentioned spiritual

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Speaker 1: and belief. And what I really appreciated about the book

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Speaker 1: is the book is filled with knowledge about how to

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Speaker 1: handle your finances, but at the same time, it has

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Speaker 1: Bible verses that can enlighten the readers too. And I

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Speaker 1: wanted to ask you that, why did you think it

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Speaker 1: was important to talk about the Bible and you know,

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Speaker 1: the Word of God as well as talking about finances,

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Speaker 1: Like what was the reasoning behind that? I was fascinated

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Speaker 1: by that. Yeah, that's always sometimes it's off putting for

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Speaker 1: some folks, obviously, and so I try not to be

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Speaker 1: over the top. It's not a Christian manual on finance,

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Speaker 1: but the Books of Wisdom in particular, or the Proverbs.

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Speaker 1: It can be applied regardless of your faith, regardless of

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Speaker 1: your background or your belief system. Wisdom's wisdom. I've been

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Speaker 1: Franklin said something, you know, it's okay, you can you

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Speaker 1: can kind of look at that. I think that's possible, right,

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Speaker 1: And he's not in the Bible, But I mean, you

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Speaker 1: see what I'm saying. So, but what we've discovered about

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Speaker 1: personal finance, and I discovered this years and years ago

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Speaker 1: the hard way I kept when I was doing counseling

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Speaker 1: and coaching with people when I very first started, I

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Speaker 1: would go in and fix all of their budget and

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Speaker 1: negotiate with their creditors a set of payments that would

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Speaker 1: fit within their income. And they were about to file bankruptcy,

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Speaker 1: but we stopped their foreclosure. We got them on a

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Speaker 1: plan with their bank and were right on the edge.

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Speaker 1: We pulled them back from the edge and said, Okay,

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Speaker 1: now work this plan, and then I would see them

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Speaker 1: six weeks later. I'd say, how's the plan going? We

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Speaker 1: file bankruptcy? What I did ninety hours of work to

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Speaker 1: get that to where it would? What do you mean

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Speaker 1: you file bankruptcy? And I started realizing it wasn't math.

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Speaker 1: Math wasn't the problem. The problem with my money is

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Speaker 1: the guy I shave with. If I can get that

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Speaker 1: guy to behave he can be skinny and rich. Oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, he's a problem. And so we start realizing

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Speaker 1: personal finances eighty percent behavior, only twenty percent head knowledge

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Speaker 1: and behavior is a spiritual thing. I'm an evangelical Christian,

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Speaker 1: so for me, I immediately gravitate to the Bible as

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Speaker 1: a spiritual instruction. And there's twenty five hundred scriptures dealing

429
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 1: with money. So whether you're a Christian or not doesn't

430
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 1: matter to me. The reason I'm bringing that up is

431
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 1: it's an indication of This is a set of behaviors

432
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 1: and a set of views, a set of beliefs, a

433
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 1: spiritual walk that influences your behavior, and your behavior creates

434
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 1: your outcome. It's everybody's trying to fix their finances with

435
00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,119
Speaker 1: a math formula. And if you were doing math, you

436
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 1: wouldn't be in credit card dat Yeah, well said, and

437
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 1: I'm so happy that you do that as well. I

438
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 1: know you know from my work the traditions I studied.

439
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 1: Spiritual traditions is such big inspirations to me, and I

440
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 1: find so much validity and timelessness in how they apply

441
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: to today's modern day challenges. Dave the chapter two and

442
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 1: chapter three to talk about what a baby steps millionaire

443
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 1: is and how to become one. Can you define to

444
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 1: us the difference between a millionaire and a baby steps millionaire,

445
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,439
Speaker 1: because I think this is something that a lot of

446
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 1: people struggle with. Well, first, it's good to just say

447
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: the definition of a millionaire is not a Dave Ramsey definition.

448
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 1: This is an accounting definition. Personal finance has been taught

449
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: for decades before I was born. This is a it's

450
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 1: a math formula. It's a very simple formula. Assets minus

451
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 1: liabilities equals net worth. What you own minus what you

452
00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 1: owe equals your net worth. When you're worth is one

453
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 1: million dollars or greater? When what you own minus what

454
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 1: you owe is one million, or you're a millionaire. Well,

455
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 1: I don't feel like a millionaire. It's not a feeling.

456
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:10,880
Speaker 1: I don't believe anybody out to be a millionaire. It's

457
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: not a moral construct. I don't think that's enough. It

458
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 1: might not be, but it's still a million. It's still

459
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: what's there. This is a math formula and when you

460
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 1: reach that. The way you're a billionaire a thousand million

461
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: is if your assets minus your liabilities. It's not your income.

462
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: You can make a million dollars a year and not

463
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: be a millionaire. You can make thirty thousand dollars a

464
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 1: year and be a millionaire. So it's a it's a

465
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 1: net worth, balance sheet transaction. It's an accounting function. It's

466
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 1: not up for negotiation. Now we can discuss all kinds

467
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: of things about what a million is and whether it's enough,

468
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: and the moral construct around it, those kind of that's

469
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: a that's a fair discussion to have, but first you

470
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: got to admit and just say that is a millionaire.

471
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 1: I just don't feel I don't care you are a millionaire.

472
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 1: You know, I talk to a guy a day on

473
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: my show. He just paid off his house and it's

474
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: worth nine hundred thousand dollars and it's gone way up

475
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: in value. He's out of Denver and the market shot

476
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: way up, and he goes, it doesn't I don't feel

477
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 1: like a millionaire because he got several hundred thousand in

478
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: his four oh one case, so he's got a net

479
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: worth of a million dollars. I say, it's not a feeling,

480
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:16,959
Speaker 1: and he goes, I don't feel like I earned it.

481
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. I don't care where you got it.

482
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 1: It's still a million. It's still that's you got to

483
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: really get back to that. So once we do that,

484
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,360
Speaker 1: then we say, all right, now, then where do millionaires

485
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,479
Speaker 1: come from? And several years ago we did the largest

486
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: study of millionaires ever done in North America. My friend

487
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 1: Tom Stanley, who's passed away now, did a book in

488
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two called The Millionaire next Door, and he

489
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 1: studied millionaires in nineteen ninety two, many years ago, and

490
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 1: his sample size and the research was seven hundred and

491
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 1: fifty millionaires, and the people who did not like the

492
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:56,199
Speaker 1: conclusions of his study used the sample size to criticize

493
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 1: and say it wasn't valid. Now, those of us that

494
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: no statistics know that's a would samplicize that that you

495
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 1: know that that's it fits the numbers. But so we

496
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 1: decided as a pr part of the study to do

497
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 1: seventy five hundred millionaires ten times what was necessary to

498
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: be statistically significant. Seven or fifty is statistically significant, and

499
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: then we just went overboard and ended up doing ten thousand,

500
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,239
Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty seven before we were done. So

501
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: we've we've done the largest study. And here's what we found.

502
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: Seventy nine percent of America's millionaires airtight research data. Not

503
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: a feeling, not a political agenda, not your broke brother

504
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: in law's opinion at Thanksgiving, not how he feels about

505
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: rich people, none of this data. Seventy nine percent inherited

506
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: precisely zero wow, eight out of ten. Five percent more

507
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 1: inherited a small amount like fifteen hundred dollars or five

508
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: thousand dollars mathematically could not have possibly made them a millionaire.

509
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: Another five percent inheritance substantial money like one hundred thousand,

510
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: two hundred thousand dollars after they were already millionaires. So

511
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: five and five and seventy nine, we're at eighty nine percent,

512
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,679
Speaker 1: nine out of ten of America's millionaires did not become

513
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: millionaires because of an inheritance. Wow, so that's a millionaire.

514
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: And I'm running into these guys everywhere in thirty years

515
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: of doing this, and it's screaming at me, this is possible.

516
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: And they're not rocket scientists, they're not rock stars. They're

517
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 1: not one percent of the millionaires in America. You would

518
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 1: know their name, meaning that they're on TV, or they're

519
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: a rock star, or there an NBA or MLB or something.

520
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: You know, they're in that. But one percent, ninety nine

521
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 1: percent or a teacher and a policeman, you know, and

522
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: they're number one category or number one career was engineered.

523
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 1: So then we started hearing from people. I've been teaching

524
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: this stuff for thirty years, getting people out of that,

525
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: getting them on a budget so that they can invest

526
00:27:58,080 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: in their four one case so they can pay off

527
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 1: their house. And they were following our baby steps and

528
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: becoming millionaires. So we had first generation millionaires everyday millionaires,

529
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 1: we called them. And then we had millionaires that had

530
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: become millionaires following our process, and that process is called

531
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 1: the baby steps. So that's it's a nuanced subset of

532
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 1: what a millionaire is too much talk. But that's the deal,

533
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 1: not too much talk at all. That was brilliant. I'm

534
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 1: so glad you went there, not too much talk at all.

535
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: I think, you know, that's fascinating, first of all, the

536
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: fact that you did to study. Second of all, I

537
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: think when you hear that, everyone's just surprised because you

538
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: just assume that everyone is a millionaire is either a

539
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: you know, a tech founder, or a celebrity or a musician.

540
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: And you know, I think we have perceptions, as you

541
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: rightly said earlier, around wealth. What are some of those

542
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: key steps If someone's in their twenties right now or

543
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: in their thirties and they're like, I want to be

544
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: a baby steps millionaire. I don't want to walk through

545
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: the seven steps, because I know they're beautifully laid out

546
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: in the book. What are some of the first things

547
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: that they need to start thinking about, Dave, let's go

548
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: back to and say out loud, the tech person or whatever.

549
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: The stuff we're teaching will not make you a billionaire.

550
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: It won't do it mathematically, It won't. These were millionaires

551
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: one to ten million dollars worth of net worth, okay,

552
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: and so these are that's a lot of money, but

553
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: it's not a billion These people don't have private jets,

554
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: they don't have six houses, they don't have a Lamborghini.

555
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: Those are billionaires that have that. And a lot of

556
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: those are people that are household names, the Gates or

557
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: the Buffets or whatever that kind of thing. And that's

558
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: but that's a different world. In this world, the way

559
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: to get the first one to ten million ends up

560
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: being eighty percent of them, a little about eighty three

561
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: percent of them had two things that showed up almost

562
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: every time. Number One, they funded their four oh one

563
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: k in good mutual funds and their roth iras and

564
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: good mutual funds over an extended period of time twelve

565
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: to seven ten years. That's not that long, but that

566
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: was long. It's longer than five minutes. And let's not

567
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: get rich quick. It's the tortoise, not the hair. So

568
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: twelve to seventeen years during that time, the average millionaire

569
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: paid off their home in ten point two years. And

570
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: so what we've got is we've got a guy that's

571
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: our a gal that's got a million five net worth

572
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: and they of it as in there is a five

573
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars paid for home and a million dollars

574
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: in their retirement accounts. And that's almost all it was.

575
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 1: Those two things. You know, the power of compound interest,

576
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: building up your emergent are, building up your mutual funds,

577
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: winning in your four oh one K. And just steady, steady, steady,

578
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: never stopping, never panicking when the markets down. Just steady, steady, steady, steady.

579
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: Just keep doing it, Just keep doing it, Just keep

580
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: It's boring. It's not sexy at all. You're not gonna

581
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: be on the cover of Fast Company magazine, you know,

582
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: paying off your mortgage. Nobody knows you did it. It's

583
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: just kind of But here you sitting with a paid

584
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: four house and a million buck, I think you're gonna

585
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: be okay. So that's what most of them did. A

586
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: few of them were farm millionaires, large enough to be

587
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: to mention here, meaning that they not inherited. But they

588
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: were a farmer that bought land, and then they bought

589
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: more land, and then they bought more land, and that

590
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: land in and of itself became worth over a million dollars.

591
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: That wasn't that unusual. We saw several of those as well.

592
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: But what we discovered was process people are the ones

593
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: that did this. Whether they were baby steps millionaires or

594
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: just millionaires. And so the number one career was engineer,

595
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: Number two was accountant, Number three was teacher, Number three

596
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: was teacher, number four was an executive, and number five

597
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: was a lawyer. Mds didn't even make the top five.

598
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: Medical doctors made number six. And now if you count

599
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: even the mds, if you count every one of those, okay, engineer, accountant, teacher, executive,

600
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: and lawyer, every one of those are systems people. They

601
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 1: believe a set of principles and when you follow those principles,

602
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: you get a result. As you sow, so shall you reap?

603
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: If you plant corn, don't be shocked, corn comes up.

604
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: And every one of those it's a cause and effect

605
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: world that they live in. They believe in systems. They

606
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: believe in processes. Figure out the system, work the system.

607
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: You build a bridge this way, it stays up. You

608
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: do a lesson plan this way, the student learns. You know,

609
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: every one of you know, there's a you follow us

610
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: set of decorum and laws and processes. In court or

611
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: the judge put you in jail for contempt, you have

612
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: to and so all of these are processed people. So

613
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: it turns out it's a process. You spoke with something

614
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: really brilliant. It's not sexy, it's not quick, and it's

615
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: not what it looks like on Instagram, on social media

616
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: and the pictures. I feel like half the battle is

617
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: building that discipline, muscle, that habit, that pattern of consistent focus.

618
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: What is taking us away from that? How do we

619
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 1: build that muscle? Because it sounds like to me, that's

620
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: what's blocking us. We wanted to be sexy, we wanted

621
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: to be fast, we wanted to look at said in

622
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: wait and you're like, wait, wait, wait, it doesn't look

623
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: like that at AOL. You know, I think it's disturbing.

624
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: The wonderful things about social media are obvious. The wonderful

625
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: things about the Internet are obvious. We're able to do

626
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: this interview this way. It's obvious. It's a fabulous convenience

627
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: and everything. The downside is is that we're creating generations now,

628
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 1: even up into my old generation, of people who have

629
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: the attention span of a gnat. I mean, they can't

630
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: stick with anything, and in order to do something of greatness,

631
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: it requires a steady application over a period of time.

632
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,719
Speaker 1: The old days of a craftsman going through years of

633
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: apprenticeship in order to be world class at something. Now

634
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: we want to just snap our fingers and instantaneously be

635
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: able to do this because we carry this magic wand

636
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: around in our hand that if we push stuff, push

637
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: a button, stuff shows up on our porch. I mean,

638
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: it's magic and anything we want you can do. You

639
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: can get anything you want on this thing, very very quickly.

640
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: It's you can't even have a good argument because you

641
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: can get the answer to the problem out there. And

642
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: you know, we used to sit around have fights at

643
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 1: dinner and our family and argue about so whether somebody

644
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: was right or not. Now somebody goes and looks on

645
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: the internet and finds the answer and well, George's just wrong,

646
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: Henry's right, you know. And it's just so this attention

647
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: span thing is a problem, and really what that is

648
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: underneath without shaming someone or trying to shame a whole generation,

649
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: I'm not doing that, because there's people within each generation

650
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 1: that don't do this or that break free from it.

651
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: Is it's emotional maturity. The ability to delay pleasure is

652
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: a sign of maturity. That's what grown ups do. Children

653
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: do what feels good, Yolo, you only live once quick

654
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: Instead of like I'm going to sacrifice to get a

655
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: greater outcome. I'm gonna live like no one else so

656
00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 1: that later I can live and give like no one else.

657
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: I've got to have the moment, at this moment that

658
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: is a childish expression of any area of your life.

659
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: It will destroy your marriage, it will raise horrible children,

660
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,320
Speaker 1: you know, it'll mess up your career, and it certainly

661
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,399
Speaker 1: will mess up your money. Short term thinking that get

662
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: rich quick has never worked at any time in the

663
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: world as an ongoing, provable, sustainable process. It's always and

664
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 1: that's where the tortoise and the hair Esop's fable comes from, right,

665
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: And so we gotta stick with this idea. And that

666
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 1: even includes our generosity. You know, we were starting to

667
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: talk about generosity, and the generosity with these folks, with

668
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 1: these millionaires that we studied is a steady thing, like

669
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: their savings is a steady thing. They're not trying to

670
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 1: have this one big event that says, look at me,

671
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: how generous I am. Instead, they're fairly quiet about it,

672
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 1: almost absurdly quiet and anonymous about it, and they steadily

673
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: give in to something that they believe in. If they're

674
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: a Christian, they're going and giving a tithe at their

675
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: local church. If they're Jewish, they might also be tithing

676
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: at their synagogue. You know, regardless of your faith background,

677
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 1: there's not a religious background on the planet that does

678
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: not have a steady giving rhythm as a part of

679
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 1: its teaching. Every one of them do, because it's how

680
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 1: you build character. And when you're giving, it's almost impossible

681
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 1: to not become grateful. And as you become grateful, the

682
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,720
Speaker 1: next thing that happens is you become more and more content.

683
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,760
Speaker 1: And the more content you are in a totally discontented culture,

684
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: the great advantage you have to build wealth. Dave, that

685
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: is such a fantastic answer. I love how we're talking

686
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,280
Speaker 1: about money, but we're talking about emotional maturity. We're talking about,

687
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: you know, character and developing character and developing patients and

688
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: developing discipline. And you told us earlier how you initially

689
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: came to wealth the first time around, to what was

690
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: considered rich where you were from the first time around.

691
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: How emotionally and mentally prepared do we have to be

692
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: to even be wealthy, Because we talked about the discipline

693
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: and the postponing of pleasure before we get there, But

694
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: then even when you get there, to stay there requires

695
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 1: a different level of mental and emotional maturity. Talk to

696
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 1: us a bit about that, because I think that's often undervalued.

697
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 1: It's a different level of nobility, not in an aristocracy

698
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: sense or a looking down on the little people's sense.

699
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 1: That's not what I'm saying at all, But this idea.

700
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 1: What happens is is the people that do this they

701
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 1: grow into They may be in the acquisition mode early

702
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: and as it goes along, but as the weight of

703
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: the responsibility of the wealth starts to grow on them

704
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: over time, it doesn't seldom happens quickly. Then it flips

705
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: from acquisitions to servant to serving, and they see their

706
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 1: wealth as an opportunity to serve your spouse. I can

707
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: get her a nice car. I can serve my children.

708
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:05,399
Speaker 1: They can go to college and we can pay for it.

709
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: I can serve my community and we can open a

710
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: homeless shelter or fund to homeless shelter. I can serve

711
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,800
Speaker 1: the world at large. And the more you start to realize,

712
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 1: then the more money you're managing, the more people you

713
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: can help, because at a certain point that you can't

714
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: ingest enough stuff. You know, if you eat an you know,

715
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: and I was a kid growing up, I never had lobster.

716
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: That was the red lobster came to town. It was

717
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: a big deal, right, And if I got lobster with

718
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: that drawn butter on my mouthwater and run. Now, if

719
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 1: I got lobster with that drawn butter, you know, I

720
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: thought that was rich people food. And so, you know,

721
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: I thought rich people ate lobster all the time. And

722
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: so once I had some money, I finally figured out

723
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: if you eat enough lobster, it tastes like soap. You

724
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: can't get enough cars to be okay. Winning does not

725
00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: heal you. Becoming wealthy doesn't heal you. It makes you

726
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 1: more of what you already are. And if you gain

727
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: wealth gradually and build the character as you're doing it,

728
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 1: it will flip at some point and you will become

729
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: a noble servant of your family, change your family tree,

730
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: of your community. And that's really all money is good

731
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: for after a certain point. I mean, again, you can

732
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: have some nice things, and I'm not against having nice things,

733
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,839
Speaker 1: but your nice things I'll have you eventually they'll eat

734
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: you alive. If that's where you think happiness is, because

735
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: it's not. While winning does not heal you. That's definitely

736
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: a powerful, powerful message for you know, each and every

737
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,280
Speaker 1: one of us to hear, especially because I think society,

738
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: as you said earlier, has actually programmed that feeling is

739
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: that if you win, you don't even well. Actually, we've

740
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 1: been made to believe if you win, you don't even

741
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 1: need a healing. We end up seeing these folks that

742
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: are in the celebrity in the spotlight, whether sports figures

743
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 1: or Hollywood figures or whatever, and they become mass civily

744
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: successful within their craft and financially successful too. But they

745
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: prove out the concept of what we just said. Their

746
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,959
Speaker 1: lives are a mess many times, and they didn't get

747
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: what they hope to get from all of it. They

748
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 1: didn't get healing, they didn't get a happiness, they didn't

749
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: get wholeness, they didn't get contentment. Quite the opposite, because

750
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: what money does is it's a magnifier. It makes you

751
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 1: more of what you are. And so to the extent

752
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: you our whole, it's gonna make you noble and serving.

753
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 1: And to the extent that you are greedy, you're gonna

754
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 1: be unbelievably greedy. To the extent you have a temper problem,

755
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 1: you're gonna be a rage a hallock. I mean, you're

756
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 1: gonna be more. If you're crazy, you're gonna get crazier.

757
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 1: I mean, whatever it is, it makes you more. It

758
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:48,919
Speaker 1: magnifies whatever you are. And so it is a it's

759
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 1: a powerful weapon. It's a powerful tool to be used,

760
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,479
Speaker 1: but it is very dangerous because it's a magnifier. Yeah,

761
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: and that that links nicely to this really important question

762
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: you ask and answer in chapter seven, which is will

763
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: wealth ruin my kids? Right? I think that's a very

764
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 1: common again misconception. It's a common question. And you talk

765
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: about how sometimes parents actually wait too long to talk

766
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: to kids about money because we kind of things like, oh,

767
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: they're not gonna understand it, they're not gonna get it,

768
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,439
Speaker 1: they're not old enough yet. Talk to us a bit

769
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,359
Speaker 1: about why we have that fear that wealth will ruin

770
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: our kids and how early can you start? And I

771
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: know in the book you talk about the five behaviors

772
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: to raise money smart kids, but maybe if you can

773
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: just touch on one or two of them that you

774
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 1: really feel is the right time to start and where

775
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: to start. Well, if we go back to our earlier discussion,

776
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 1: understand that handling money is eighty percent behavior. It's not different.

777
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 1: And so in the sense that are we have to

778
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,359
Speaker 1: teach our children to behave we have to teach them

779
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 1: to have discipline, self discipline. They don't have self control,

780
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: that they're they're gonna be a horrible spouse, There're gonna

781
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,959
Speaker 1: be a horrible parent to my grandkid. If they don't

782
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 1: have self control, they're not gonna be a good employee

783
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 1: or a good boss, a good leader in their organization.

784
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: And so they have to learn behaviors at home. And

785
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: we can use money as one of the things we

786
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 1: do that we use to teach them to have behaviors.

787
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: And so one of the things we all had used

788
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: on us and we used on our kids was, you know,

789
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 1: you have to do your homework and you have to

790
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 1: get good grades. Well, that's control, self control, and we're

791
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: gonna we'll walk with you, we'll coach you, will help you.

792
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 1: If you're struggling, we support you. But not doing it

793
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 1: is not an option you're going to learn to do.

794
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: You know, you have to brush your teeth. You're one't

795
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: have teeth when you're old. You need to brush your teeth.

796
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: That's a good thing. And so you can't just ignore this.

797
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: You have to bathe because that way you'll get a

798
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: spouse later and leave. And so you know you have to.

799
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: We want to teach our kids these things, right, So

800
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: money is the same way, and we teach them age appropriate.

801
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: You know, when you pick up your toys in your

802
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 1: bedroom and your three, what that really means is is

803
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 1: that I picked up all your toys and you picked

804
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: up two of them. But I'm gonna give you all

805
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 1: the psychological and emotional credit and give you a high

806
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: five as the best room cleaner that there ever was

807
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 1: on the planet. Oh and I'm also going to give

808
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 1: you a dollar bill to put in your piggy bank.

809
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 1: Over here. I want to put your peet. I want

810
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: to put that dollar bill on you because I want

811
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 1: you to emotionally associate work with money. Work is where

812
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 1: money comes from, and that's absolutely vital. And if you

813
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: can do that, then then you get the ability to

814
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 1: teach them to save and to spend wisely. You can participate.

815
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 1: But I'm I'm gonna send a five year old to

816
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 1: the salt mines. We're not doing that, you know, but

817
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 1: but we are gonna. We're not when you're fourteen, you're

818
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: gonna do some work, because if you wait till they're

819
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 1: eighteen to start teaching work ethic, they don't know how

820
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 1: to do anything. Yeah. And then then some poor soul

821
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: is going to hire them later and they don't know

822
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 1: how to work. Yeah. And so it's a gradual parenting

823
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: as a gradual process, like so many good things in life.

824
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 1: And so you know the idea that we're going to

825
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: gradually teach them to work, give, save, spend. And if

826
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 1: you can teach them to do those things age appropriately

827
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 1: gradually over time, then they've got the character. They have,

828
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: the the skeletal structure in their character, self control, self discipline,

829
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: the ability to delay pleasure, the ability to set a goal,

830
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 1: work towards a goal progressively, age appropriately and with some help,

831
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 1: with some grace when they fall down, with some love,

832
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: but not helicoptering in and saving them, let them, let

833
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: them feel the pain of the of the struggle. It's

834
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 1: good because that's where it all comes from. Man, you

835
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: get a callous that way. And so then they're ready

836
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: to manage money. Oh, by the way, the last step

837
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: then is that they move from this is how money

838
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 1: works to now it is a response ability. Money is

839
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 1: a responsibility. You have to manage money for the good

840
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: of others. You get to participate in some good things

841
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 1: by managing it. But you're managing it for the good

842
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: of your family, your kids, your grandkids. You're changing your

843
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: family tree. And that's what I did, and that's why

844
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:19,240
Speaker 1: there's some for you in this inheritance. And a good

845
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 1: man leaves an inheritance to his children's children Proverbs, and

846
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: so we're going to do that. But you don't get

847
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: that if it's going to harm you, and it would

848
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: harm you if you don't have the scal little structure,

849
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: the muscle tenue in this area to carry it. And

850
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 1: so when you leave kids that were quote in the

851
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 1: old days, we used to say so and so was

852
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: a spoiled kid. If you have a spoiled kid and

853
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 1: you leave them a bunch of money, well they're a

854
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: reality show stared later. That's what they in. That's their

855
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: only skill. And so they can't do anything, and it's sad.

856
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 1: They're sad humans and they struggle and then they fall

857
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 1: out down all over the place and everybody's watching them

858
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 1: do it, and they do it big numbers around them.

859
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 1: It's awful. And so instead what we want is we

860
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 1: want you know, this is a family that is a

861
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 1: family of service, and this money is a responsibility and

862
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: if you view it that way, you will have the

863
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: opportunity to manage it for the good of others and

864
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:19,839
Speaker 1: for the people of faith, for God, for the good

865
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 1: of God. We're going to manage it for God's good.

866
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 1: And so you know, you can have these kinds of

867
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:28,879
Speaker 1: ethereal discussions, but you had to built the built a

868
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 1: character along the way. Yeah, what a what a fantastic

869
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: and phenomenal Onza day because I made I did an

870
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 1: activity recently where I sat down and I wrote down

871
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 1: all the jobs I've had in my whole life, and

872
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 1: I was writing down what I learned from each one

873
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 1: of them. It was a really fun thing to do.

874
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: And I realized that when I was fourteen, I was

875
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: a paper boy in my area. So I delivered newspapers

876
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: in my area and I got paid for it. And

877
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,280
Speaker 1: I remember all the other boys would go and throw

878
00:46:56,360 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: the papers in the trash. So the organized they started

879
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: giving me more money to do all their streets as well.

880
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,280
Speaker 1: And then I worked at Morrison's, which is our version

881
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 1: of Walmart. It's a you know, a grocery store, and

882
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 1: then and then I worked in retail, and you know,

883
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 1: so on and so forth, and so in the last

884
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 1: twenty years, I've had so many jobs since I started working.

885
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,839
Speaker 1: And you're so right that I remember paying for my

886
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 1: first ever phone bill, paying for my car insurance, like

887
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 1: my parents never paid for those things. I had obviously

888
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: lived in their home and you know, was taking care

889
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: of with shelter and food, but beyond that, any expenditure

890
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 1: was personal. And I'm so grateful to them for that,

891
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,720
Speaker 1: because it set me up for this understanding of how

892
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 1: hard it was to make money, how hard it was

893
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 1: to save money, and how often as a kid I

894
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 1: was a bad spender and saw zero in my bank

895
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:50,359
Speaker 1: account and what that felt like from an anxiety point

896
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 1: of view. They let you fall down, but they never

897
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 1: let you fall down hard enough that you were permanently harmed. Yes, yes,

898
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 1: it's just that you learned the lesson. And so that's

899
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:02,280
Speaker 1: a that's a loving parent. And it's not child abuse

900
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 1: to teach a child that money is limited. It's not

901
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: child abuse to say no no as a complete sentence.

902
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 1: It's not child abuse to teach a child to work

903
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:16,800
Speaker 1: age appropriately so that they can have a sustainable life

904
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: with dignity. It's very difficult to have a sense of

905
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 1: dignity if you don't have a sense of power over

906
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: the controllables out there, and people that don't know how

907
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 1: to work have no power over those controllables. Yes, yes,

908
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,760
Speaker 1: very well. Said chapter eight, Dave, you speak about something

909
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier. Wealth and the wealthy are not evil.

910
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 1: You know that has always been a struggle. And you

911
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: had this beautiful sentence in the book which you says,

912
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: equal is not fair, right, equal is not fair? And

913
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: I remember it. I don't know if you've seen this

914
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:52,240
Speaker 1: is graphic on social media that's going viral a few times.

915
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: It's I don't know who made it, but it's a

916
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 1: picture of like three people. One's shorter, one's a bit taller,

917
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 1: and then there's a really tall person and they're all

918
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 1: standing on an equal sized block to watch some sports,

919
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:07,399
Speaker 1: and it says equal is It's similar to that where

920
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 1: it's like equality doesn't work because each of these people

921
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 1: need a different set of steps to be able to

922
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 1: see this sport. And as soon as I read that

923
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,240
Speaker 1: line in your book, equal is not fair, I thought, okay,

924
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 1: that makes sense to me, but to a lot of people.

925
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 1: That's worrying. A lot of people would rather wealth be

926
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 1: distributed equally, and you know figuring that out and working

927
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 1: from that perspective. But walk us through your thoughts on

928
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: why equal is not fair and how we should think

929
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 1: about that Differently. If you throw the papers, and you

930
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 1: actually throw them and deliver them to the people's houses,

931
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 1: and you get paid the exact same as the guy

932
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 1: who threw them away, that's not fair. You've provided a

933
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 1: much more service to the community. You had integrity, you

934
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 1: didn't steal. And the guy who threw them away took

935
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,799
Speaker 1: someone else's papers. They weren't his, and he threw them

936
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 1: all way. That's stealing. And he didn't follow through on

937
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,360
Speaker 1: his promise, and he was getting paid for a service

938
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 1: he didn't even attempt to do. That's also stealing. So

939
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 1: his lack of integrity and lack of service in the marketplace.

940
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:15,800
Speaker 1: And to say that those two people should be paid

941
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 1: the same is an immoral statement. Equal is not fair.

942
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 1: It would not be fair for that guy to get

943
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: the same money over time as you got. Now, I

944
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 1: would never propose that two people doing the exact same

945
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: thing and providing the exact same level of service somehow

946
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 1: got different because of their skin color or their sex

947
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:42,239
Speaker 1: or something like that. No, we've got folks of every background,

948
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:45,879
Speaker 1: every ethnic origin, and everything else on our leadership team,

949
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 1: and we're completely blind to all that were All we

950
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 1: want to know inside Ramsey is did you do the job?

951
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 1: And if you did the job, you get the money.

952
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 1: And that's how that works. And so that that's the

953
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: that's the only measure. And but to say that that

954
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 1: that we're going to spread it out across the people

955
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 1: who did the work, didn't do the work. Who who

956
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,800
Speaker 1: plowed the field or didn't plow the field? Who showed

957
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 1: up and when the storm came through and got the

958
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:12,879
Speaker 1: tree out of the road. The other one just sat

959
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 1: at home and what and you know, and played, you know,

960
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 1: some kind of game on the TV or something. What

961
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,359
Speaker 1: I mean, that's just communism is what it is at

962
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 1: its core. It's an economic system. It's not name calling.

963
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 1: This idea that things are equal. So we have to

964
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 1: eliminate that number one. Then once we eliminate that, then

965
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 1: we start to understand what my friend Rabbi Lappin says.

966
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: Rabbi Lappin is an Orthodox Jewish rabbi. We become really

967
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 1: good friends, because I just love his teaching like I

968
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 1: love yours. He says that money comes to people who serve.

969
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 1: That when you serve, your customers give you certificates of

970
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 1: appreciation with President's faces on them. And so you know

971
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 1: this idea that evil people prosper. Now, the percentage of

972
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 1: evil people among the wealthy is about the same percentage

973
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 1: of evil people among the poor, because again, money makes

974
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 1: you more of what you already are. You're magnified. And

975
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 1: so here's the thing you think about it. If you

976
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 1: got a guy that works on cars, he has an

977
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 1: auto repair shop, and you go in there and he

978
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 1: tinkers around on the car and he says that'll be

979
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty dollars, and you drive away, and

980
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 1: the next day your car breaks down again. You come

981
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 1: back in there, you go, hey, I give you a

982
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 1: hundred fifty dollars. You can fix my car. He goes,

983
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:26,320
Speaker 1: I know, but it'll be another one hundred and fifty dollars.

984
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:28,240
Speaker 1: You know I'm not giving you another und fifty dollars.

985
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:30,359
Speaker 1: And you go back. Finally you go, okay, this guy's

986
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 1: a crook, okay, or he's incompetent one or two he

987
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 1: doesn't know how to fix my car. Now what do

988
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 1: you do? Do you keep going there and giving the

989
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 1: guy money? Obviously not no more than that. You go

990
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 1: tell everyone you know, this guy's a crook, don't do

991
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 1: business with him. Now does that guy prosper at the

992
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 1: end of the story. Of course not. He goes out

993
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 1: of business. Over time, the marketplace will punish him for

994
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 1: his crookedness. Now take the guy next door. He's got

995
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 1: an auto repair place. Going there, he looks under the

996
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 1: hood and he goes, oh, there it is, and he goes,

997
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 1: you're okay, what do you What do I owe you? Nothing?

998
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:08,239
Speaker 1: Just remember me when your car really breaks, because I

999
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 1: just fix it. It's no big deal. And you driveway going.

1000
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 1: I found a guy who fixed my car for free,

1001
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 1: and he actually is honest. This is a unicorn. I'm

1002
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 1: gonna tell everyone about this guy. And then this guy,

1003
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 1: you know, we visit this guy. Now, twenty years later,

1004
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 1: he's got a franchise operation. He's got this color of store,

1005
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 1: fixing cars in fifty six cities across America. He's worth

1006
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 1: eight million dollars and now he's evil. What Yeah, that's absurd.

1007
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,319
Speaker 1: The line of thinking here, the critical thinking skills that

1008
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:42,759
Speaker 1: get you to that are non existent. It's impossible to

1009
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: be a crook and prosper in a free marketplace long term,

1010
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 1: or to use crookedness as a method of wealth building

1011
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 1: because it actually works against you. So that that's Rabbi's

1012
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 1: you know, that's his line of thinking on that, and

1013
00:53:57,160 --> 00:54:00,760
Speaker 1: that's where we go to. So, yeah, there evil people

1014
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 1: that are rich, but I don't know a lot more.

1015
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 1: They're unbelievably kind, generous, grateful, They got more time for

1016
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 1: you than and they'll do anything for any I mean,

1017
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 1: they're just unbelievable humans. And that's the one I know

1018
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,360
Speaker 1: a lot more of those than I do. Crooks. Money

1019
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:24,360
Speaker 1: is any moral It's not about money. It doesn't have morals.

1020
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:26,799
Speaker 1: It's about the human being, and when it touches that

1021
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:31,720
Speaker 1: human it reflects who they are. Dave, this has been

1022
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 1: so much fun getting to know you. I've I've always

1023
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 1: watched you from Afar admired you, you know, a big

1024
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 1: fan follower in meet and to sit down with you

1025
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: and to have this conversation with you and to hear

1026
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 1: about the depth of these ideas. Right, You're highly strategic,

1027
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:50,839
Speaker 1: methodical people can actually get really functional advice on how

1028
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:53,800
Speaker 1: to change their lives financially. But I love the depth

1029
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 1: and the gravitas with which you do. I genuinely mean that.

1030
00:54:56,880 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 1: And we end every on Purpose episode with the final five.

1031
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,279
Speaker 1: These questions have to be answered in one word or

1032
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 1: one sentence maximum, so there are a quick fire around

1033
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 1: Dave Ramsey. These are your final five. Are you ready?

1034
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 1: I'm ready? Okay, awesome. So the first question is what

1035
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:18,280
Speaker 1: is the best financial advice you've ever heard, received, or given?

1036
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:23,240
Speaker 1: Be intentional? Second question, what is the worst financial advice

1037
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 1: you've ever received or heard? You can borrow your way

1038
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 1: unto wealth? Great answer, very aligned, all right. Question number three,

1039
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 1: what do you believe is the best investment or spending

1040
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 1: that you've ever done in your life? Giving beautiful? Question

1041
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 1: number four, what do you think was your biggest financial

1042
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 1: mistake of an investment or spenditure going deeply in debt

1043
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 1: to build wealth? And fifth and final question, If you

1044
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 1: could make one law that everyone in the world had

1045
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:54,839
Speaker 1: to follow, what would it be? I would require them

1046
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 1: to be generous? It's beautiful, Dave Ramsey. Everyone, if you

1047
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 1: haven't already got the book Baby Step Millionaires, please go

1048
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 1: and grab a copy of the book. If you don't

1049
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 1: subscribe to Dave's podcast, The Ramsey Show, make sure you

1050
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 1: do his podcast lots of other incredible podcasts as part

1051
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 1: of that network as well. Please tag Dave and I

1052
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:16,719
Speaker 1: on Instagram, on Facebook, on Twitter about what resonated with you,

1053
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 1: what you took away. There were so many nuggets of

1054
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 1: wisdom and insight. I love the studies and resets that

1055
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:25,319
Speaker 1: Dave shared. Makes you tag us both to let us

1056
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 1: know because we'd love to see what you took away

1057
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 1: and make sure you keep coming back to on Purpose

1058
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:35,279
Speaker 1: for more insights into your mental health, which includes your finances,

1059
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 1: which includes your fitness, and of course includes your friendships. Dave,

1060
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Any final words for our community.

1061
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 1: Unbelievably honored to be with you. I hope we get

1062
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 1: to do this again and the next time we need

1063
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 1: to just hang out a little bit. I would absolutely

1064
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:50,839
Speaker 1: love that. If you're in La, let me know. If

1065
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 1: I'm in Nashville, I'll let you know. And otherwise I'm

1066
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 1: going to keep supporting from AFAR and we'll definitely do

1067
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 1: this again. So thank you, Dave, and thank you to

1068
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 1: your whole amazing team as well. They've been so helpful.

1069
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 1: Thank you Sir, Thank you m HM