WEBVTT - I Know This Much Is True (Part 4) 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:05.920 So I remember once talking to my grandmother about how 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:08.360 she met my grandfather, and the crazy thing is they 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:10.119 went to high school together and he was like the 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:12.559 coolest guy who went to their high school. And then 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:15.240 after they graduated, she saw him on the street and 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.160 I thought it was really cute. You know, grand birds 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:21.279 are adorable. Throw all that out the window for I 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:23.800 Know this Much is true. Because this is Popcorn Book 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:26.400 Club from My Heart Radio, and on this episode we 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:29.680 continue our discussion of Wally Lamb's novel I Know this 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:32.120 Much is true, which you know, it's like, I Know 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:36.239 this much is incredibly traumatic. So we're diving into the 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:41.239 story of Dominico on no Fryo Tempesta, the grandfather of 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:45.559 the Birds, EA Twins and folks. Things get weird. I 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:48.720 will not have a wife. I will have this monkey 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:52.199 in a cross stitch on someone's house. You'd be like, 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:55.040 I gotta get out of this house. This is part 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:57.600 four of our series, so jump back to episode three 0:00:57.640 --> 0:00:59.720 if you want to start a little bit earlier, or 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:02.120 up one if you haven't caught up yet. Here we go. 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:06.480 Welcome back to Popcorn Book Club. I'm Danish Schwartz and 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:09.440 as always I'm joined by Cromadanca, Jennifer Right, Tantran, and 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:15.240 Melissa Hunter. Hi everyone, Hi, could someone describe where we 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:22.480 left off last time? I went through the book and 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:24.320 I like made a bunch of notes and like tried 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:25.840 to make a timeline, but then I had to keep 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:29.120 going back and adding stuff and like changing and altering. 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:31.600 And I was, you did do the homework. I thought, 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:35.840 you're good at therapy. Thank you. Can I graduate now? Yes, 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:39.120 I say, you can graduate. Thank you, Betsy. I hope 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:44.040 you're listening to this. Betsy is my therapist. So the 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:47.400 last part that we had talked about was the beginning 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:52.279 of Domenico on all Freo Tempesta's story, where he talked 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:55.880 about coming to the United States and he was on 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:57.920 the deck of the ship and there were those rich 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:00.520 people who were like, get backed down into the browels 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:02.880 of the ship where you belong, and he was like, 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:05.000 the world is full of stairs. Some go up and 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:07.560 some go down, which is not an expression I'm fully 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:13.040 sure I understand. But um so, then Dominic is at 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:16.120 home after having been released from the hospital, finding out 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:19.400 that Joy cheated on him with her uncle who was 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:23.800 also her molester as a child, and that she was pregnant. 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:29.040 More on that later. UM, and he considers suicide and 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:31.320 he's sort of at his lowest low. He really hits 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:33.880 bottom when he's at home from the hospital, but thankfully 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:37.120 he calls Leo, doesn't make an actual gesture or attempt 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:40.640 at suicide. He gets help, which is probably part of 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:43.720 the work of the therapy honestly. Well, yeah, and so 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:46.680 then it becomes very largely about Domenico story. So we 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:49.400 can now talk about the things that happen. Um. Starting 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:53.440 get all that out of the way. Those brothers, UM. 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:55.400 I think it was Melissa who said something was going 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:58.200 to happen with the brothers. She was like, nothing is good, 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:01.000 so the brothers aren't gonna end up well, and thankfully 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:03.919 it wasn't that they raped Dominic's mom but thank god, 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:08.000 which I think we were all shocked by. I think, um, 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:10.720 so many terrible things happened in this book that I 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:14.919 just fully assumed that Dominic's mom was by an uncle 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:19.400 or her father, And no, she wasn't put a put 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:24.080 a nice turn of events. Well, yeah, we'll get into 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:27.920 that later. But yeah, I will not go into the 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:34.960 rape or incest foreshadowing. Oh. So, yeah, Domenico comes to 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:39.160 the United States and he befriends a librarian in New York. 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:44.160 They live in a thriving Italian community and he works 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:47.920 as a janitor, and then he and his brothers find 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:50.240 out that there's this sort of like new up and 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:54.680 coming Italian community that's going to be in Three Rivers, Connecticut. 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.640 So he's like, Oh, let's all move to Three Rivers, 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:00.840 Connecticut and get jobs there because they've got lots of 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.680 jobs and they've got some Sicilianos and we can just 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:06.040 go hang out with other Sicilians in this new place. 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:10.480 And so they do that, and then he starts working 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:14.960 as Domenico starts working as like a fabric dyer at 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:17.240 a factory. And both of his brothers are sort of 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.960 ne'er duels in different ways. One of them a little 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.920 not neir duels, that's like a but a little like 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:29.760 quirky quirky. They have different quirkies, have one primary trait. 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:34.839 One is one of the night and the other one 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:41.040 is obsessed with his pet Mommy. The monkey monkey has 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:45.119 actually come up a lot in which is wild because 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:47.880 I was like, it's a lot of monkey imagery in here, 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:50.560 because prospering and who will get into a little bit later, 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:53.839 but she's constantly described as looking like a monkey and 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:59.599 referred to as the monkey throughout Domenico's story and then 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:03.960 Dominant Dominic it's called the spider monkey by his mom, 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:07.240 which did make me think of Twilight, and Dominic calls 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:11.760 the Tiffany a little monkey, but in a in a 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:15.400 sweet way, it seems like, yeah. And then also the 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:19.240 rabbit imagery is the mom would call Thomas her little rabbit, 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:25.400 and then she was called a rabbit. And then there's 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:29.080 some witchcraft with rabbits that will get into and then 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:35.760 some curse forgiveness with some rabbits. There's sometimes describing this 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:39.159 book to other people feels like a mad lib. Yeah, 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:42.719 it does. Okay, I'm gonna I know I'm breaking my 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:45.360 rule of breaking out of domenico story. But have any 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:48.720 of you read Holes? Yes? Okay, so you know at 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:54.159 the end of Holes where uh he Stanley breaks the 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:57.400 old his grandfather's curse by carrying zero open hill and 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:00.240 then everything works out and then he gets and then 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:07.159 he finds the money and everything's great. Rabbits, he broke 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:12.040 the curse, he broke Prosperines evil lie curse, and then 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:14.520 it's like, and now you get your your bad luck 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:17.920 of schizophrenia and suicide is over. Now you get money 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:22.720 and wife and now dad. Yeah. So it felt like 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:24.680 it felt like he broke the curse and then he 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.640 just got to have everything he wanted. Just because of 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:29.520 the premise of this podcast, I do have to say 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:32.800 that Holes was my first really positive experience with a 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:36.120 book to film adaptation. I feel like when they did 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:39.680 a very good job of adapting and also including rap, 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:44.839 so good job. Yeah. If you guys, if the three 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:47.159 of you who have not who are not familiar with Holes, 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.440 want to go enjoy it the Holes Rap, I highly 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:59.240 recommend it. It's called digging. Okay, I'm already who wants 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:01.640 to dive into what happens to the brothers? And then 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:06.880 we get the sisters, well fake sisters or cousin fake cousins. 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:13.640 Um I can so Vincenzo, whose primary trade is that 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:17.640 Vincenzo loves to fuck um She's the statue of liberty 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:21.320 and says if all the women in America this large, 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.440 they will need need me to fill up their enormous pussies, 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:30.240 all right, like strong, strong stoke from Vincenzo. Um So 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:34.120 Vincentso ends up being employed at a grocery store, and 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:36.920 one of the reasons he's employed there is because he's 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:41.360 constantly having sex with women, and women come in to 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:45.600 the grocery store to ce Vincenzo and have affairs with them. Well, 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:48.800 you know, you know Jews, they're so greedy, they higher 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:56.760 I sing I did. I didn't feel about that. It's like, oh, 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:59.200 the Italian grocers like, why won't he work it here, 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:02.280 and it's like, I don't know, and the Jewish grocer 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:07.000 is like, yes, no, come bring us money. Yeah. Obviously 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:09.920 Domenico is someone who is not an ally of the 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:15.480 Jewish community. I imagine. I think it's just an ally 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:20.640 of Domenico. That's fair. So at one point, Um, the 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:27.360 local priest comes to Domenico and says, please stop your 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:30.960 brother from having sex with every single woman in the 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:34.120 town of Free Rivers, Connecticut. It is bringing a bad 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:39.000 name up on all Italians. And Um Domenico is very 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:43.600 angry about this. Um it's uh, it's a rift between 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:48.520 him and the religious community. And shortly after his brother 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:52.559 of Vincento, is caught my jealous husband and shot and dies. 0:08:53.280 --> 0:09:01.319 So that's why, yeah, yeah, that's I feel like that's 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:05.960 also a theme that very topic comes back around. Um. 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:10.439 But you know, life goes on for Domenico, and he 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:16.120 still has his other brother, who he certainly is not 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:19.080 having sex with a bunch of ladies, but gets this 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:25.400 pet monkey that he loves perhaps too much. UM, and 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:28.520 we don't know. I'm gonna to couch it by saying allegedly, 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.200 I don't know having sex with the monkey, but there 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:34.920 becomes a rumor in town that he's having sex with 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:37.640 the monkey. And also I want to point out the 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:41.920 one really embarrassing anecdote that Domenico says is he walked 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:44.679 into his brother's room one morning and his brother had 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.960 morning would and the monkey was on doing his pant page. 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:51.600 And he told that story to the priest, and like 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:56.240 the way the priest navigates, being like, okay, I know 0:09:56.760 --> 0:10:07.120 a boner in the morning is normal. He can't know. Hey, 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:12.240 the priest was basically like the criminal justice system. He's like, 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:14.120 I know, you walked in and you saw this, but 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:19.080 it's circumstantial evidence. But I also do respect that the 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:21.280 priest was saying, like the brother I think was dead 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:24.480 at this point, and so that the priest was saying. 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:27.600 The thing that Domenico really needed to hear the priest 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:32.280 was doctor Pertel. Yeah, yeah, Domenico's doctor Hotel didn't work 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:35.160 as well for Domenico. But no, but I think it's 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:38.920 really better that those of them um sought to unburden 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:42.920 themselves of these kind of horrible secrets that had been 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:47.160 making them very angry for so long. So she's brother 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:50.360 past qualite. He's probably not having sex with the monkey, 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:52.600 but it definitely loves this monkey very very much and 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:55.360 takes it everywhere with him and demands that the monkey 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.680 live in the house um so which they are building. 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:04.000 So he is helping Domenico build a house in Three Rivers, Connecticut, 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:08.920 which Domenico really really wants to be a homeowner in 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:13.920 this town. And the plan is that they will marry 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:19.560 two newly arrived eighteen year old Sicilian women and they'll 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:23.000 both have a wife. And because the Dreaming isn't interested 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:24.800 in that, he just wants staying out with his monkey. 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:29.520 But Domenico thinks that'll be the thing that will make 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:32.320 it normal, that'll make him forget about how much he 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:37.880 loves his fat monkey. And one day well was sucking 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:41.520 the monkey look I mean the five thing it was 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:46.160 taking off his pants. We was weird. Was like, I 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:50.160 would never have a wife over this monkey, like this money. 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:52.600 It's just there was an implication that the monkey was 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:56.480 his wife, whether it's sexually or not. Like if I 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:58.560 don't think if you had like a cat or dog 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:01.400 that you loved your significant other, was like, you have 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:04.760 to choose me or the dog. Like people might choose 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:08.560 the dog and that would be valid. Um, people love 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:10.520 their pet. I don't know. I don't know if I 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:13.559 would get rid of my cat based on a new boyfriend. 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:19.079 I guess I I definitely think it's that's what the 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:21.400 seid of, Like I will not have a wife, I 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:26.320 will have this monkey in a cross stitch on someone's house. 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:32.880 You'd be like, I gotta get out of this house. Yeah. 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:37.920 He wasn't even trying to date and see if this 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:40.959 woman maybe would be open to cohabiting with a monkey. 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:45.360 He was just like, no wife, just a monkey. Okay, 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:47.840 maybe I just didn't want to get married. That could 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:51.720 be normal. That normal, like lots of people just you know, 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.120 want to want to have a pet to live alone. 0:12:55.400 --> 0:13:00.000 That's okay, he's not sucking the monkey. I want to 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.040 one of the things I love about you, Jennifer, as 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:04.680 you always you do see the good in people, and 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.080 you always look for the bright side. And I I 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:10.320 also think that maybe he was having sex with them. 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:16.560 Here's here's what I think on the monkey business. So um, 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:20.560 the thing is it was twofold because Domenico was like, 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.680 you will get rid of this monkey, and the monkey 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:27.600 can maybe live outside, and you also have to get 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:31.160 a wife. So I think that the two being intertwined 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:36.160 for Domenico is what made them intertwined. For um, for 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:39.199 Pascal or Pasquale, I don't know how you pronounce his name, 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:42.680 but I think that ultimately, if there had been a 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:47.320 woman who accepted the fact sort of someone like Likedessa, 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:51.559 who was like who accepted Thomas and loved Thomas for 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:54.520 who he was despite his flaws and the difficulty of 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:58.160 having Thomas in her life, I think that somebody would 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:00.000 have been like, Yes, this monkey is a part of 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:01.720 our life for the rest of its natural life. And 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:04.959 maybe it's not ideal, but I care about this person, 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:07.400 and I see this person's gentleness and the love and 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:09.360 care he has for that monkey, and if he can 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:11.160 love and care for me in the same way, then 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:17.440 we're good. Also, how to build on what you were saying, 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:21.560 I think like maybe that relationship is just mirroring the 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:24.640 thing about his mom and and Thomas. It's that like 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:28.320 what Domenico saw and his brother was a tenderness that 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:32.320 disgusted him, and that he saw something that was not 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:36.800 manly or not representing like the ultimate man that his 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:39.480 brother should have become. So like that is a I 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:42.520 appreciate that read. And also maybe he has a weird 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:45.120 relationship with the monkey and Yan. I think what's really 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:47.880 important about that is what really I think made Domenico 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:52.760 the maddest was the way other people perceived the relationship 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:55.480 between Pasquale and the monkey. I think that Domenico is 0:14:55.520 --> 0:15:00.200 someone who was so um insecure in his own you know, 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:03.920 worth the dominant that to have other people gossip about 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.000 his brother and the monkey, he couldn't protect his brother 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:09.680 the same way that you know, the mirrors the way 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:14.240 that Dominic was always so humiliated by Thomas, and like 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:16.080 I didn't know how to protect him that when people 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:19.560 made fun of Thomas, rather than being like, hey, you know, 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:23.520 back off, that's my brother, he internalized that chain And 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:27.920 I think Domenico. When people make fun of Pasquale, you know, 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:31.160 even if it was just like joking, like kidding about 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:41.000 he really internalized anger, crystallized Andy's uncle. Yeah, that's what 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.320 I was gonna say. I also will say I think 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:47.120 if Puss passwal I had not died, Prosperine would have 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:49.480 been totally cool with living with a monkey. I think 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:52.000 they would have had a really cool kind of sitcomy 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:55.760 dynamic between postqualit, the monkey and Prosperine. I would have 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:57.480 loved to see it. I think they would have had 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:02.960 way more fun on their side of the house. Yes, absolutely, anyway, 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:08.760 so that's a good transition into prospering and Violetta what 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:18.760 are we gonna call her? Yoletta Ignasia. Melissa brings us 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:22.200 into offering Agnasia. Well, we didn't talk about how pas 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:25.960 died actually, which I think is super implant cover it 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:31.920 real quick. So, um, the priest of the town and 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:37.119 his underling, I'm not sure how that is exactly. Assistant 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:41.960 priest uh to come to the house, cer like why 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.680 aren't you coming to church? And they're still working on 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:47.600 the house and uh, and they get into a fight 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:52.800 because Domenico doesn't want to go to church and the 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:57.040 priest Wall plus quality is up in a tree, I believe, 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:00.360 trying to cross to like do some house work. I 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:04.600 think his monkey is in a tree. Yeah, he gets 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:08.520 bedeviled by blue jays and then on the roof putting 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.240 on Yes, that's what it is. And so while they're 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:16.520 in a fight, Domenico throws cement at the priest. It's 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:20.840 a very silly fight, and then the priest curses the 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:24.760 house and the monkey gets spooked at the same time 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.560 by the birds get spooed because the monkey did get spooked, 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:32.080 and the monkey jumps, and then Pascually tries to save 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:35.520 the monkey, and the monkey is okay, but Pascual it 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:39.920 falls to his death. Um, and it is very sad. 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:44.640 And then, uh, much like the mother did with Dominic 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:49.320 and Thomas promising to take care of Thomas, Domenico promises 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:52.479 last dying breath to take care of the monkey, and 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:57.159 he immediately fails that in a most terrific scene that 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:02.159 just fails like actively, Yeah, well, I think he tries 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:04.920 for like a day and then it's like nope, and 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:09.840 uh kills the monkey and it really drowns the monkey. 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:14.200 And it's very very upsetting because the monkey knows what's 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:19.320 happening and I don't anyway, moving on from the monkey 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:22.280 death from they couldn't you just give the monkey to 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:30.040 someone else? The monkey totally responsibly his brother's Thomas's death. 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:34.400 A lot of drowning in this book. God, so much drowning. 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:40.240 But um, okay, So after that chapter of Domenico's life, 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:45.639 he still has these brides, teenage brides waiting for him. Uh, 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:53.560 with these with these Italian plumbers. Um, I thought that 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:57.040 when I was reading. And then and they're like, come on, 0:18:57.160 --> 0:18:59.879 they can't wait for a long they're too hot to handle. 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:04.920 And so he goes. He's so excited to meet these brides. 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:08.199 He's gonna choose the eighteen year old one rather than 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:12.720 the seventeen year old probably named Prosperine, and he's like waiting. 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.320 I love this moment where he like starts at the 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:20.240 feet like he looked. He literally pans up to the 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:23.280 face and so he's like, oh, she's like a little skinny. 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:25.200 I don't like that, and then sees her face and 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:29.880 it's like she's ugly and old. She's like thirty. Um, 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:34.880 I mean I think he's like thirty six or something anyway, 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:37.880 and he's like horrified and angry and it's like, how 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:49.560 dare you tricked me into this hag? And uh? Then god, 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:53.480 I love the pipe and she's a She's like, I 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:57.159 don't give a shit about you. Fine, thank god. And 0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:01.560 then um, Ignazia comes in and it Nausea is just 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:05.840 the most beautiful woman he has ever seen. Is closer 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:10.600 to eighteen, which is great for him. Um, and she 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:14.360 doesn't want anything to do with Domenico. She's in love 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:17.439 with a redheaded man. I forget what he does in 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:25.679 the town. Um he lives with his mother and yeah, 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:28.440 and so there's some deal making back and forth. He's 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:31.760 like filled with lust for a nausea. Then finally he 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:36.160 agrees instead of getting a dowry to pay for these 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:39.879 women and and also take prospering, even though he didn't 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:42.520 want to. Well at first, he actually he at first 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:47.159 he also like bargains with the cousins and then to 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:49.840 go home and then comes back because he's like because 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:54.800 he's just yeah, he can't. He gets his ass on 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:58.320 the train. It's also like the hilarious way that it's 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:01.480 the first he's been so dedicated to working and building 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:04.520 himself up as like a proper man in America in 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:07.400 three rivers and he's like, this is the first time 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:12.760 I've ever been horny in my hole. I can't believe it. 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:16.119 I've never felt like this before, Like like all the 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:20.600 energy is rushing through me and I can't contain myself. Yeah, 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:23.000 he was like a teenager, but in but a really 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:27.240 problematic teenager because Ignazia wants nothing to do with him, 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:33.960 and so drags these two sisters supposed sisters um to 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:39.440 his house and they hate it and they don't like him, 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:44.320 and Prospering is just like especially aggressive for Domenico and 0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:46.600 doesn't give a shit about him. Well, I think I 0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:51.119 think the one thing is on their wedding night, oh yes, 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:53.680 which I think is the main thing that really crystallizes 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:58.760 the relationship between Prospering and Yes Dominico. They have sex, 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:02.560 she doesn't bleed right, and then he accuses her of 0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:05.639 not being a virgin and beats her even though she 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:09.800 says she is. Uh, and it really sets a real 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:14.280 tone for their whole relationship. Um. But the next morning, 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:18.000 what I like is Prospering is really protective of Agnosia 0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:21.080 and he's like chopping onions or something. With a really 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:24.800 big knife, like like a noticeably big knife, bigger than 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:27.840 it has to be. And she's like, you ever lay 0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:31.760 a hand on her? I will, yes, yes, I think 0:22:31.760 --> 0:22:35.720 it was kind, but like it's implied and she's like yeah, oh, 0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:39.400 and she's kind of like I've done it before, bitch. Yeah, 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:42.639 I've killed a man. I've killed a man. Whatever, No 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:46.400 you haven't. That can't be true. Uh, it turns out 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:54.360 it is true. But we'll get to that momentarily. You're 0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:57.080 listening to Popcorn Book Clive for my Heart Radio. We'll 0:22:57.080 --> 0:23:04.800 be right back after this quick break, all right, So 0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:09.520 let's get back into it. So Ignazy gets pregnant and 0:23:09.800 --> 0:23:13.760 has or was pregnant. You don't know at the time. 0:23:13.760 --> 0:23:16.680 It's like I'm pregnant, I'm doing what do you do? Uh? 0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:20.320 March maybe February? Who knows these things anyway, don't pay 0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:23.280 attention to the date. I did the math. Actually it's 0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:26.800 seven months, right, Yeah, it's seven months. She was about 0:23:26.840 --> 0:23:29.920 twenty nine weeks because they got married in mid May 0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:33.000 and then the babies were born in early December, on 0:23:33.080 --> 0:23:37.080 December two, so that means like twenty nine weeks for 0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:39.560 the babies, which means that if they were born, and 0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:43.600 most twins are born early but not that early, they 0:23:43.720 --> 0:23:47.439 probably need time in the nikko for that um. But 0:23:47.560 --> 0:23:51.040 I will say everyone I was originally like conspiracy theory, 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:54.080 it's definitely the Irishman's baby, but everyone says that he 0:23:54.200 --> 0:23:57.480 looks looks so much like Domenico, where I was just like, 0:23:57.520 --> 0:24:00.439 I'm going to suspend my disbelief and assume I is. 0:24:00.560 --> 0:24:02.320 I would say yeah, because at first I was like, 0:24:02.359 --> 0:24:04.160 that's what they're saying that, and then I'm like, oh no, 0:24:04.240 --> 0:24:07.240 because they're saying Domenico is actually his father, and that 0:24:07.320 --> 0:24:09.959 I feel like that was the real like it's not 0:24:10.040 --> 0:24:13.000 his grandfather, it's his father. But then now that I 0:24:13.359 --> 0:24:18.520 know that it's not either, I think he is the grandfather. Also, 0:24:18.600 --> 0:24:22.480 because my grandma has red hair and she did not 0:24:22.600 --> 0:24:27.000 have any red haired children, but her great grandchildren, three 0:24:27.080 --> 0:24:30.159 of them are redheads. It's like that Jane sticks the 0:24:30.200 --> 0:24:34.320 funk around, so I think, ah, there might have been 0:24:34.320 --> 0:24:38.040 some redheads. You also think that one of the seams 0:24:38.080 --> 0:24:40.600 of the book, he said, it's not just biology that 0:24:40.680 --> 0:24:43.639 makes a father. My father is someone who bears witness 0:24:43.640 --> 0:24:45.639 to your life, and the father is someone who's there, 0:24:46.280 --> 0:24:50.040 and um, I don't freaking debate whether or not that's 0:24:50.280 --> 0:24:54.359 entirely true, but um, I think that's how he comes 0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:56.600 to feel about Ray later, that Ray is not his 0:24:56.680 --> 0:24:59.679 natural father, but Ray it's his father, and you know, 0:24:59.720 --> 0:25:11.040 maybe maybe the same could be said of Domenico, and um, 0:25:11.080 --> 0:25:13.440 I think it's important to to make the distinction that 0:25:13.520 --> 0:25:17.960 like none of this, like that Dominico raped his wife, 0:25:18.040 --> 0:25:23.560 like none of the sex was ever consensual in an 0:25:23.800 --> 0:25:28.080 upsetting upsetting and the most upsetting thing is that like 0:25:29.680 --> 0:25:36.040 Dominic doesn't really grasp that in his explanation of his 0:25:36.040 --> 0:25:39.600 his grandfather's story to people, like that is so glossed 0:25:39.640 --> 0:25:42.200 over in a way that like make which makes him 0:25:42.280 --> 0:25:44.479 getting back with Sorry I'm jumping, but it makes him 0:25:44.520 --> 0:25:47.560 getting back with Dessa so upsetting to me because it 0:25:47.560 --> 0:25:52.399 feels like those conversations about consent and him being a 0:25:52.520 --> 0:25:55.600 rapist does not get talked about in the same way 0:25:55.600 --> 0:26:00.280 that we literally see every single conversation of every like 0:26:00.359 --> 0:26:03.280