Speaker 1: Hi.
Speaker 2: I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
Speaker 2: and speaker.
Speaker 3: And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
Speaker 3: and course creator. We are two working parents who love
Speaker 3: our careers and our families.
Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
Speaker 2: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
Speaker 2: From figuring out childcare to mapping out long.
Speaker 1: Term career goals.
Speaker 2: We want you to get the most out of life.
Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura.
Speaker 2: This episode is airing in late March of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2: If we sound a little different, it's because we are
Speaker 2: again in Sarah's closet here in Fort Lauderdale, together sharing
Speaker 2: a microphone with each other, with the happy noises of
Speaker 2: children playing in the back. Hopefully that continues to be happy.
Speaker 2: They seem reasonably happy, right, Sarah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's hope it's going to be controlled levels of chaos.
Speaker 3: I have recorded many episodes with my kids home, and
Speaker 3: I actually think this microphone's pretty good at not picking
Speaker 3: that stuff up. So as long as nothing catastrophic happens,
Speaker 3: it should be pretty decent.
Speaker 1: Pretty good.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they've got some good stuff going on out there.
Speaker 2: I got to see the three D printer, pretty exciting.
Speaker 2: But this episode is going to be a never.
Speaker 1: Have I ever? Episode?
Speaker 2: So perhaps you have played this as a game at
Speaker 2: a party. I don't know that I have ever played
Speaker 2: this as a game at a party, but I hear
Speaker 2: people do.
Speaker 1: Never have I ever played the never have I ever?
Speaker 1: Gave it a part? Have you? Sarah?
Speaker 2: We came up with questions from like teen vogue, so
Speaker 2: that may hint at what age demographic perhaps plays this
Speaker 2: game at party.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure we would be doing this with like.
Speaker 3: True, but I've seen it on some blogs and stuff,
Speaker 3: and I'm always fascinated, Like it's just a fun way
Speaker 3: to learn random stuff about people. And I think Laura
Speaker 3: and I picked some strategic questions in here.
Speaker 2: Yes that maybe either have done or not done, but
Speaker 2: might make interesting and won't embarrass anyone so crazily that
Speaker 2: we'll have to yank this episode before it airs.
Speaker 3: So yeah, so have you hear it, Pierre? If the
Speaker 3: episode just says like redacted and you hear static for
Speaker 3: like thirty seconds, which we thought better of it.
Speaker 1: Yes, we thought better of it.
Speaker 2: That we were thinking what stayed in the club, what
Speaker 2: was said in the closet stayed in the closet. Then
Speaker 2: we realized we were still recording. All right, so Sarah,
Speaker 2: this is your laptop. I don't want to pull up
Speaker 2: the notes with there we go, Okay, Sarah, never have
Speaker 2: I ever?
Speaker 1: Have you ever broken a bone? I have never broken
Speaker 1: a bone.
Speaker 3: I have broken my left thumb doing a backhand spring
Speaker 3: into a table in my home at around age fifteen,
Speaker 3: and it was very bad because I'm left handed and
Speaker 3: I had some violin performance coming up, and you really
Speaker 3: need that left thumb.
Speaker 1: To play the violin.
Speaker 2: So back up here, back handspring into a table? Like,
Speaker 2: what was sort of the thought process behind that? Do
Speaker 2: you think there was a thought process.
Speaker 1: I don't know. You're the one who did it.
Speaker 3: I mean I think it was I think there was
Speaker 3: a lack of thought process. That I had just learned
Speaker 3: to do a backhandspring, and so I was very excited
Speaker 3: to show it off, and for me, it was always
Speaker 3: easier to do like a round off backandspringuse you have
Speaker 3: that momentum, and I think I just misjudged, being so
Speaker 3: new at it, misjudged My house is not very big
Speaker 3: where I grew up and yeah, just went straight into
Speaker 3: a table.
Speaker 2: All right, depth perception, useful skill, Yeah, but fully recovered.
Speaker 1: That's good. Can't even tell it, can't even tell.
Speaker 2: No, two thumbs look pretty normal, all right. Blocked someone
Speaker 2: on social media? Have you ever blocked someone on social media?
Speaker 2: You're not even on social media anymore? So she blocked
Speaker 2: all of us. I guess I blocked everyone.
Speaker 3: No, I don't think i've like, I feel like, yeah,
Speaker 3: if it got to the point of blocking someone, I'm like,
Speaker 3: I'm quitting that platform.
Speaker 1: I'm done. So I don't think I've ever actually blocked anyone. Okay,
Speaker 1: have you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have, but like broad categories. Actually, it sort
Speaker 2: of wound up being especially, as I guess said, it's
Speaker 2: a wonderful thing that I have friends from all different
Speaker 2: political persuasions all over the map, but around elections it
Speaker 2: could get to be a bit much, and I just
Speaker 2: decided I didn't need it in my life.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, maybe you just don't want like random
Speaker 1: people giving you random advice something. Well, it was more
Speaker 1: friends arguing with each other via.
Speaker 3: My oh, and you're like, an I'll just I'm out.
Speaker 1: I'm out. I'm out. All right, Neither of you are
Speaker 1: involved in this anymore? All right? Next one stayed up
Speaker 1: all night? Isn't that like part of residency? Yes, I
Speaker 1: have stayed up all night.
Speaker 3: I hate staying up all night, and in fact, now
Speaker 3: I would consider it such an incredible punishment. But there
Speaker 3: were definitely many call not all I mean, sometimes you
Speaker 3: get to sleep, like even a little bit, but there
Speaker 3: were definitely multiple call nights where there was just not
Speaker 3: even a minute, and.
Speaker 1: They none of them were fun. But I'm trying to
Speaker 1: think of my regular life. Did I ever stay up
Speaker 1: all night?
Speaker 3: I feel like I think I did once at like
Speaker 3: the end of Governor school, because everyone just everyone did,
Speaker 3: and you like waited to see the sunrise and then
Speaker 3: we went to sleep.
Speaker 1: That was more pleasant. Yeah, what about you?
Speaker 2: Well, I remember doing so at like a middle school
Speaker 2: lock in at church or so we stayed up all
Speaker 2: night and then I like crashed immediately upon coming home.
Speaker 1: But in college my.
Speaker 2: Senior year, I actually worked the overnight shift some nights
Speaker 2: at the student center because they needed to staff at
Speaker 2: twenty four hours during finals because people were up late
Speaker 2: studying and all that, and so it was a pretty
Speaker 2: good job as these things go. If I didn't have
Speaker 2: any finals during the day. I mean could theoretically just
Speaker 2: sit there and like write papers or surf the early
Speaker 2: version of the internet or you know.
Speaker 1: I like, you didn't have to do much.
Speaker 2: I think I made rounds every hour or two to
Speaker 2: check that nothing ontoured had happened in the student center.
Speaker 1: But that's about it.
Speaker 3: I feel like college students are the best that staying
Speaker 3: up all night because like hormonally, they're kind of like
Speaker 3: prime to do that, and.
Speaker 1: It's just like part of the culture.
Speaker 3: Like we had at least one twenty four hour coffee
Speaker 3: shop at Williams.
Speaker 1: So I guess they like wanted you to stay up
Speaker 1: all night. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean if people are studying, I guess it's
Speaker 2: better there there than somewhere else.
Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, yeah, all right, Sarah wardrobe malfunction.
Speaker 1: Never have Vata ever had a wardrobe malfunction? Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, Okay.
Speaker 3: So, by the way, we tried to not make these boring,
Speaker 3: Like if we were going to just do never however
Speaker 3: and us both be like, nope, moving on, this episode
Speaker 3: wouldn't be fun. So we did try to select things
Speaker 3: were at least one of us would be able to
Speaker 3: say yes, And I was debating, like, do I want
Speaker 3: to talk about.
Speaker 1: My wardrobe malfunction? But I think enough time has passed
Speaker 1: that you're okay, we've processed it.
Speaker 3: So approximately twenty years ago, I attended a wedding in
Speaker 3: like Deana, I think it was in Indiana or something
Speaker 3: like that, and I wore this black dress and it
Speaker 3: had straps, So I don't really understand what happened. At
Speaker 3: the time, the song Hey y'ah by Outcast was very popular.
Speaker 1: And the dancing was just pretty spirited.
Speaker 3: Spirit is the right word, and everything everything came down
Speaker 3: for I don't know how long. I mean, it wasn't
Speaker 3: like a long time, but it was like long enough,
Speaker 3: but like and it was everything like I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think I had a strap, was brawn, but maybe
Speaker 3: like just what ever. It was a famous moment and
Speaker 3: my kids even know about it today. And if we
Speaker 3: ever heard that song, you're like.
Speaker 1: Mom, is that strapless dress? It had straps?
Speaker 3: I think it just fell off. I don't know whatever.
Speaker 3: That was a moment that was definitely a wardrobe malfunction.
Speaker 3: It's the only one I can remember having.
Speaker 2: But it was significant, So I guess this is a
Speaker 2: childhood one. But I once dressed up as Pippy Long
Speaker 2: Stocking for book character Day, but it turned out not
Speaker 2: to be book character Day.
Speaker 1: It's so sad.
Speaker 3: So I was just in costume, Oh my god, and
Speaker 3: wow all day you had to go all day?
Speaker 1: I was dressed up as Pippy Long style. What grade
Speaker 1: were you in? I don't write early elementary. Squawked it out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah exactly.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if that's one hundred percent my fault.
Speaker 2: Maybe it probably was. Have you ever gotten a speeding ticket?
Speaker 1: Sarah? Yes, yes, okay, I do tell you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it wasn't that exciting. Like there was a little
Speaker 3: side street and I was I've told people like, I'm not.
Speaker 3: I don't consider myself like a naturally excellent driver. I
Speaker 3: think I'm way better now than I used to be.
Speaker 3: But there was this little tiny side street. No one
Speaker 3: was ever on it. I think speed limit was like
Speaker 3: twenty five, and I got in a lot of trouble
Speaker 3: for going like forty one, which was bad.
Speaker 1: I mean I shouldn't have been going forty one. I
Speaker 1: will own that.
Speaker 3: But I was young and dumb and I paid my
Speaker 3: ticket and I don't have any more tickets since then.
Speaker 3: So that was like also twenty years ago was rough,
Speaker 3: you guys, Like, I don't.
Speaker 1: Know between the wardrobe malfunction and that it was because
Speaker 1: I was staying up all night all the time. That's
Speaker 1: the problem. That's the problem. Sleep.
Speaker 2: Sleep deprivation makes you do very silly things. I have
Speaker 2: not gotten a speeding ticket. But funny story of when
Speaker 2: I was in a car that was pulled over. Actually
Speaker 2: Michael's father was driving Michael and me from our wedding
Speaker 2: reception like to the hotel, and he had forgotten to
Speaker 2: turn on the headlights. And this rental it was like
Speaker 2: a fancy rental car or whatever, and he had just
Speaker 2: not I don't know, something had gone wrong with turning
Speaker 2: on the lights. And so we were pulled over because
Speaker 2: of course we're going around with no lights. And then
Speaker 2: the cop was like, well, congratulations you guys and all that.
Speaker 1: He just told him turn on the lights. Oh well
Speaker 1: that's good. Yeah, it wasn't actually a ticket. No, it
Speaker 1: wasn't a ticket. Near miss. Well you know, funny situation.
Speaker 1: Well it should we take a quick break because the
Speaker 1: next one's really juicy. Okay, we will all right.
Speaker 3: All right, we are back and Laura, I have to
Speaker 3: ask you, have you ever gone streaking?
Speaker 2: Well, I will neither confirm nor deny that. When I
Speaker 2: was in college there was an event called the Nude Olympics,
Speaker 2: which was very much a function of its time, like
Speaker 2: before smartphones like that could not exist now at all.
Speaker 2: But smartphones didn't exist then, and I'd like to believe
Speaker 2: that there are no pictures.
Speaker 1: So maybe it happened, and maybe maybe it didn't. I know, Sarah,
Speaker 1: have you.
Speaker 3: No, I've never gone streaking, But now that you mentioned
Speaker 3: the smartphone thing, I'm so glad, like there was no
Speaker 3: phones at that wedding.
Speaker 2: Yes, that would have I mean, you know, you would
Speaker 2: hope that they were your friends and family and they
Speaker 2: would have deleted it.
Speaker 1: But you know, could have gone viral. Could have gone.
Speaker 2: Viral at that point, and one one would not lift
Speaker 2: that down for a while. So, Sarah, have you ever
Speaker 2: fallen asleep at work?
Speaker 3: Yes, but kind of like on purpose, so like if
Speaker 3: I am really really tired, like if I was on
Speaker 3: call and I was called at night and whatever, I
Speaker 3: have done it two ways, So like at lunchtime, I
Speaker 3: would either close the door and put my head down
Speaker 3: on the desk or on a rare occasion, I have
Speaker 3: this really soft thing and I put it on the
Speaker 3: floor and then like lie that down on the floor,
Speaker 3: la on.
Speaker 1: Top of it.
Speaker 3: I haven't done that in like a really long time
Speaker 3: because honestly, it's not very RESTful. My office is really small,
Speaker 3: Like I can't even lie all the way down, so
Speaker 3: mostly head on the door.
Speaker 2: So you're like curled up in a yell like fetal
Speaker 2: position on the floor.
Speaker 1: Is that yeah? Okay?
Speaker 3: And I think I even put a sign on my
Speaker 3: door like resting, please wait until twelve forty five to
Speaker 3: come in or something if you need anything. So I
Speaker 3: guess yes, it's not like accidental. And then also when
Speaker 3: you're on call and you're in the hospital, then you're
Speaker 3: supposed to fall.
Speaker 1: Sleep at work like you're allowed to, so makes sense.
Speaker 1: That too makes sense well.
Speaker 2: Given that I work at home. I've fallen asleep at
Speaker 2: work numerous times. I mean not ever in my office,
Speaker 2: I don't think, because it's like it's usually a conscious choice, right,
Speaker 2: Like I go up to my bed and lie down.
Speaker 2: If I am really crashing and have an hour between things,
Speaker 2: I will go up there and take a little little rest.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we're going to just validate that, like we
Speaker 3: don't even think this should be a Never Have HOE ever?
Speaker 3: Because why not if you can do that, like, why
Speaker 3: shouldn't you?
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I hear that. Well, some of those like
Speaker 1: cool hip.
Speaker 2: Tech companies had like napping pods and rooms for a while, right,
Speaker 2: I thought that was the thing. I feel like if
Speaker 2: there was a napping pot at my hospital, it would
Speaker 2: like always be occupied.
Speaker 1: There's somebody in there napping all the time. I don't know.
Speaker 2: The one problem, I'm not a very good napper because
Speaker 2: of the contact lens thing. Right, it doesn't bother It
Speaker 2: doesn't bother me, and they don't, okay, because if I
Speaker 2: fall asleep with my contact lenses and when I wake
Speaker 2: up again, it's like my eyes are in this weird
Speaker 2: state like of very too dry contact lenses.
Speaker 1: Guess I'm lucky. I don't know. Maybe it men are
Speaker 1: like so well, yours are thick too. I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can nap with them my eyes.
Speaker 2: Maybe your eyes just create more more tears. The things
Speaker 2: we learn, that's what you're learning by listening to this
Speaker 2: Never Have I Ever episode that I have dry eyes
Speaker 2: and Sarah does not. We'll try to make the next
Speaker 2: one better than that. All right, I missed a flight.
Speaker 2: Well you have through connections.
Speaker 3: I like, oh, yes, I recently missed a fla. Actually
Speaker 3: that was my first stranded experience, which honestly might change
Speaker 3: my travel planning going forward, Like I never was afraid
Speaker 3: of like an hour layover, and now I'm like, I
Speaker 3: don't really want to do that again because it is
Speaker 3: so miserable to get stuck somewhere, especially when it's late,
Speaker 3: and well, I can imagine being really bad at the
Speaker 3: beginning of your trip and really bad at the end
Speaker 3: of your trip, like it's the last thing you want.
Speaker 3: So I did miss that recently coming back from Bozeman
Speaker 3: in December. But then also I had a very near
Speaker 3: miss where we actually had to like beg the agent
Speaker 3: at the plane because it hadn't taken off, but we
Speaker 3: were past the theoretical window, and I mean we didn't
Speaker 3: do anything crazy.
Speaker 1: We were just like please please.
Speaker 3: Was the first time we've left our kids, and like
Speaker 3: they're with my in laws and this is our only
Speaker 3: chance to get away, and we were actually going to
Speaker 3: Canada and they were so nice and they let us
Speaker 3: on the plane.
Speaker 1: So ah, yeah, that's sweet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've gotten stranded at O'Hare so many times that
Speaker 2: I like have a procedure down for.
Speaker 1: I have that hotel in there, Well I don't go
Speaker 1: to that.
Speaker 2: I have tould just get in the I mean there's
Speaker 2: like vans that go to the or take a cab
Speaker 2: to there's a whole row of hotels like within ten minutes.
Speaker 2: And especially if American is putting you on a ridiculous flight,
Speaker 2: that's like leaving two days later, or just buy a
Speaker 2: ticket through like Frontier, Spirit or what are the other
Speaker 2: budget airlines, Like that's pretty quick and just leave as
Speaker 2: soon as you can the next morning. Yep, that was
Speaker 2: our strategy as well. It was United or something. But yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I hate missing flights. I The thing is, so I
Speaker 2: am married to someone who likes to get to the airport,
Speaker 2: who feels like if you don't get to the airport
Speaker 2: close to when, like it's it's boring, Like you're wasting
Speaker 2: your life. And did you say like you should miss
Speaker 2: some fractions, which would be yeah, I mean if like,
Speaker 2: if you don't miss flights, you're not wrong. You're not
Speaker 2: cutting it close enough and you're wasting time that you
Speaker 2: could have I guess been doing other things with your life.
Speaker 2: But I am the kind of person who would like
Speaker 2: to get to the airport.
Speaker 1: A lot earlier than that.
Speaker 2: I feel like, if I'm running through the airport, something
Speaker 2: has gone horribly wrong in my life.
Speaker 1: So we have these two warring impulses.
Speaker 3: I also just don't find like being in the airport
Speaker 3: that like, if it was terrible in there, maybe I
Speaker 3: would understand that a little bit more. But it's like
Speaker 3: you sit down, you grab your snacks, you relax, like
Speaker 3: it's not the worst time ever.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The thing is, I feel it's often not the
Speaker 2: airport itself that's the problem, because I mean, especially now
Speaker 2: with like TSA pre check and all this stuff.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's not an issue with the airports itself.
Speaker 2: Often if you're at the airport, like any amount of
Speaker 2: time before the gate is boarding, you'll probably make it.
Speaker 2: But it's often the traffic getting there that's the unpredictable part,
Speaker 2: and that's the thing that I think it's harder to
Speaker 2: sort out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, anyway, try not to miss flights, all right, Sarah,
Speaker 2: Have you ever regifted something?
Speaker 1: Never have I ever regifted something? I guess they we're
Speaker 1: supposed to say it.
Speaker 3: Like, never have I ever regifted something without saying it
Speaker 3: was a regift. I can't recall ever, like just passing
Speaker 3: off a gift as like but I might have said, like,
Speaker 3: someone gave this to me and I'm giving it to you,
Speaker 3: so like an honest regift, yes, but a sneaky regift.
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, I don't think I've done a sneaky Well,
Speaker 2: I mean I've definitely realized. So I have two children
Speaker 2: whose birthdays are shortly after Chris Us and we have
Speaker 2: sometimes realized that they have a lot of stuff that
Speaker 2: they're about to get for Christmas. And you know, we
Speaker 2: try to keep things relatively even between children, and when
Speaker 2: they're little or kids like, sometimes this stuff kind of
Speaker 2: stacks up. So we have in fact moved gifts that
Speaker 2: were purchased for Christmas to regift them as birthday presents
Speaker 2: shortly thereafter.
Speaker 1: That makes sense. You don't think that's proudly due.
Speaker 3: No, I think that's fine. I mean that's just more
Speaker 3: like I don't think that counts as regifted.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, we use gift bags again all the time,
Speaker 2: we repurpose again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think that counts either. Regifting is like
Speaker 3: someone's like, here's this beautiful scented candle and then you
Speaker 3: turn around and you're like, here's this beautiful scented candle
Speaker 3: that I.
Speaker 2: Got to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's not it. I was sad though.
Speaker 2: All our gift bags from Alex's birthday party somehow disappeared.
Speaker 2: I think I must have had them out and they
Speaker 2: looked like trash, and they disappeared as trash.
Speaker 1: Well, maybe they were played with or enjoyed in some
Speaker 1: of their some other other fashion. Maybe. Oh well, Sarah,
Speaker 1: have you ever gotten stitches?
Speaker 3: Yes, at least twice, once mature leading injury where I
Speaker 3: got a gash over my eyebrow. There's still like a
Speaker 3: mild scar and I got stitched up in some small
Speaker 3: town like Pocono hospital, And it's so funny because it
Speaker 3: looks fine and like I you know, sometimes when a
Speaker 3: kid gets into it, parents are like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: we have to get like plastics or whatever, and it's like, well,
Speaker 3: I don't think anyone fancy did my thing, but it
Speaker 3: turned off fine. And the other time was in Miami
Speaker 3: Beach when I ran into a tree and then I
Speaker 3: fell backwards and then like the back of my head
Speaker 3: open And actually that one might have been staples staples.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well what one was? Definitely stitches.
Speaker 2: So what is the reasoning for doing staples versus stitches?
Speaker 1: Because our kids have gotten both.
Speaker 3: I think staples are not going to leave a pretty scar.
Speaker 3: But like on your scalp, who cares on your head?
Speaker 1: You probably care? But are they better? Do they hold
Speaker 1: it together? They both hold it together. They're easier to
Speaker 1: put in. There is almost to be very skilled to
Speaker 1: put in stables. First year med student.
Speaker 3: Can assist putting in the staples, I mean probably probably okay,
Speaker 3: but probably not the stitches.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I have not gotten stitches, and most of
Speaker 1: my kids have gotten stitches for some boasts. Well wow,
Speaker 1: none of my kids. Oh my gosh, gotta knock on
Speaker 1: some knock.
Speaker 2: I know, while I was a broken bone, we're like
Speaker 2: knocking on wood all around here. I definitely do not
Speaker 2: want to break a bone at this point in my life.
Speaker 3: I know that would be you never know, though, Josh
Speaker 3: broke his to be a skiing so well, you don't
Speaker 3: do that, so all right?
Speaker 1: Moving on? Yes, moving on scuba diving. I have never
Speaker 1: scuba dived. I don't want to. How about you?
Speaker 2: So this is one of these things in a long
Speaker 2: marriage that occasionally becomes something that is told with them.
Speaker 2: So I got scuba diving certified. I got my scuba
Speaker 2: my patty license when my husband and I were dating,
Speaker 2: because he really enjoys scuba diving, and so I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: you could do that together, and I'll do this. And
Speaker 2: I went and did the checkout dive on a trip
Speaker 2: we took to Belize, and I hated it, like I
Speaker 2: really really hated it. It was like cold water. I
Speaker 2: don't like only being able to breathe through my mouth.
Speaker 2: I just everything about it.
Speaker 1: I don't like being cold. I don't like being on boats.
Speaker 2: So in many ways, this was just non ideal pobby
Speaker 2: for me to be pursuing. But whatever, you know, we
Speaker 2: were going to do it together. And so I got
Speaker 2: my license and we went on our honeymoon once.
Speaker 1: And I have never gone scuba diving since.
Speaker 3: Laura was just like false advertising, like I'm your scuba
Speaker 3: dream boat here.
Speaker 2: Never mind, never mind, we'll bait and switch on that one.
Speaker 1: No, but I gave it a try. I gave it
Speaker 1: a try.
Speaker 2: I gave it a try, and it was not for me.
Speaker 2: And he has been allowed to go scuba dive. It
Speaker 2: is relatively frequently. Does it on any sort of beachy
Speaker 2: tropical vacation.
Speaker 1: We do it now.
Speaker 2: I have produced two little scuba divers who go with him.
Speaker 2: So Sam got his license a few years ago, and
Speaker 2: we'll be getting his advanced certification pretty soon. And Alex
Speaker 2: just went through his the classroom portion and the pool portion,
Speaker 2: and we'll be getting his license shortly. So amazing they
Speaker 2: will all dive together. I think it all worked out.
Speaker 3: Like it's not like he's been like your husband hasn't
Speaker 3: been like deprived of his scuba experiences, which is the
Speaker 3: important part.
Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, I took ski lessons too, and then I
Speaker 2: realized I don't like going fast down mountains, So there's
Speaker 2: many things here that I just in retrospect. You can
Speaker 2: try to be a different person, but ultimately we are
Speaker 2: who we are.
Speaker 1: Good to try it out, although I like skiing.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, we're going to take one more quick
Speaker 2: ad break and then we'll be back with the conclusion
Speaker 2: of our never have I ever.
Speaker 1: Well, we are back.
Speaker 2: We were playing a game of never have I ever,
Speaker 2: and we were discussing recently with this one never have
Speaker 2: I ever in the sense of our children getting blistering sunburns.
Speaker 1: But it turns out that Sarah.
Speaker 2: And I may not have been quite so diligent about
Speaker 2: sunscreen in our early days, right, Sarah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I regret all of my blistering sunburns. But yeah,
Speaker 3: it came up on like I never have I ever list.
Speaker 3: So I was filling out an intake form for one
Speaker 3: of my kids to go to the dermatologists, and it
Speaker 3: was like, have they ever had a blistering sunburn? And
Speaker 3: I asked them and they're like no. I'm like, wow,
Speaker 3: things have changed now. Part of it is probably just
Speaker 3: that my kids have different skins that I have, Like
Speaker 3: it tans a lot more easily because my husband's skin
Speaker 3: tans a lot more easily. But then I thought back
Speaker 3: to all the times that I was like peeling everywhere.
Speaker 1: And like how bad that probably was. But what are
Speaker 1: you gonna do?
Speaker 3: Just get a lot of skin checks and take off
Speaker 3: moles that don't look great.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think sunscreen's gotten better though, too.
Speaker 2: Right. I spray it on kids now, which was not
Speaker 2: like doable when we were little, I think, and you know.
Speaker 1: It just yeah, but we also had like SPF eight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true.
Speaker 2: It wasn't as much of a thing. Yeah, I've got
Speaker 2: several blistering sunburns. I remember going to a camp where
Speaker 2: we did sailing, and I believe I was out on
Speaker 2: the water like all day with minimal sun coverage. I
Speaker 2: mean I may have put on some on my face
Speaker 2: in the morning, but of course that's not going to
Speaker 2: do much for you by four pm. So yeah, pretty
Speaker 2: bad regret. Regret, And then you get botox for wrinkles, right.
Speaker 3: You know, ant skit, But you know what my botox
Speaker 3: actually makes me. I would not go, Let's be honest,
Speaker 3: would I be good about getting skin checks if my
Speaker 3: botox dermatologist wasn't encouraging me to get my skin checks.
Speaker 3: I actually get my skin checks, So it's actually good
Speaker 3: for me to get Well.
Speaker 1: There you go, There you go, the positive of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, Sarah. Never have I ever had a root canal?
Speaker 1: I have? You haven't? Nope? Sorry? How was that it was?
Speaker 3: See?
Speaker 2: This is the thing people talk about the root canal
Speaker 2: as being like a terrible painful experience.
Speaker 1: It's not like what's painful is.
Speaker 2: What came before it that necessitates the root canal. Right,
Speaker 2: Like for the actual root canal itself, You're like, have
Speaker 2: a mouthful of novacane, and you know, I mean, obviously
Speaker 2: it's uncomfortable to have your mouth open for that long,
Speaker 2: but usually the root canal will solve whatever the pain
Speaker 2: issue is.
Speaker 1: So in fact, I think a root canal gets a
Speaker 1: bad rep that way. I mean that kind of makes sense.
Speaker 1: Plus don't they like num you yeah? Yeah, So I
Speaker 1: mean you have the novacaine in.
Speaker 2: And but when I had the root canal, this is
Speaker 2: that tooth had all sorts of problems and so it
Speaker 2: had a deep cavey in it, and I had to
Speaker 2: get this root canal, and I went in and learned
Speaker 2: that I apparently had very long and twisty like roots
Speaker 2: in my teeth, Like you know, if any part of
Speaker 2: me is going to be long and slender, like, why
Speaker 2: does it have to be my roots of my teeth?
Speaker 2: But so that makes it harder, It makes it harder.
Speaker 2: So they had to do it in two different parts,
Speaker 2: so I had to go in twice to get it done,
Speaker 2: and then sadly enough, the whole tooth like broke apart,
Speaker 2: and so then I had to have a crown put
Speaker 2: in on that tooth.
Speaker 1: But that was a couple years ago. I've had no
Speaker 1: other tooth issues sense. I guess that was the only
Speaker 1: one that was a problem. Yeah, I'm sorry. I hope
Speaker 1: that was your only root canal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope it will be too, I mean olthough again,
Speaker 2: it's not the root canal that's the issue. It's the pain,
Speaker 2: searing pain when you have like a deep thing in
Speaker 2: your in your tooth.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, all right.
Speaker 2: Sarah watched a Star Wars marathon. Now this was on
Speaker 2: a list somewhere.
Speaker 3: No, I've watched like one part of one Star Wars
Speaker 3: and was like not my scene.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think I was like slightly too young, too, like
Speaker 3: born in nineteen eighty. I think I just kind of
Speaker 3: missed Star Wars the first time, and then when people
Speaker 3: were kind of bringing it back, I wasn't that into it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well I definitely saw four or five and six and
Speaker 2: saw one, and then like bits and pieces of two
Speaker 2: and three, and then I sort of, yeah, I lost interest.
Speaker 2: But the idea of seeing it as a marathon. When
Speaker 2: I was at a summer camp, like an academic camp
Speaker 2: in middle school, we were gonna watch this as a
Speaker 2: marathon the last night. That was something they offered as
Speaker 2: an activity, like you could watch the Star Wars marathon
Speaker 2: and then it would have been episodes four or five
Speaker 2: and six, and like two years in a row, some kid,
Speaker 2: probably not the same kid, pulled the fire alarm and
Speaker 2: so everyone had to be evacuated, and then of course
Speaker 2: the counselors are like, yeah, no, everyone go to the room.
Speaker 2: There's no more activities like after that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: So so sad didn't make it through all three in
Speaker 1: a row, two years in a row, and you haven't
Speaker 1: like made the effort I had, No, you know.
Speaker 2: It's not something that's really come up ever since that
Speaker 2: I felt as a way I needed to spend you know,
Speaker 2: six seven hours of my time or now there's nine
Speaker 2: of them, right, so yeah, yeah, no, it would be
Speaker 2: it would take a lot of time to watch.
Speaker 1: All of it.
Speaker 3: All right, Well, now we haven't ever have ever that.
Speaker 3: I'm like, it's like one of my least favorite things.
Speaker 3: So have you ever sent an email to the wrong
Speaker 3: person or sent to a group when you meant individual?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: I have, and I kept doing it unfortunately, Like I
Speaker 2: had two people who I knew fairly well who had
Speaker 2: the same first name, and I was complaining about something
Speaker 2: involving one of them professionally that I was meaning to
Speaker 2: send to the friend with the same name, and I
Speaker 2: more than once sent it to the person.
Speaker 1: I'd work out it seems okay.
Speaker 2: You know, people still were talking to me after words,
Speaker 2: but it was a little bit embarrassed.
Speaker 1: The other person's name is Sarah. No, just try not complain.
Speaker 2: Yes, I was complaining to this friend of mine handquods
Speaker 2: about someone I know professionally.
Speaker 1: That's really funny, you know. That's bazz.
Speaker 3: I had a terrible like I used to have to
Speaker 3: send so many emails so rapidly when I was a
Speaker 3: program director, like I could the only way to I
Speaker 3: didn't have like tons of time to keep up with it.
Speaker 3: So I do these massive clean out sessions every Friday,
Speaker 3: and it would just like I would look back in
Speaker 3: my inbox, I'm like, wow, I sent one hundred and
Speaker 3: sixty emails. I mean, maybe that's an exaggeration, but it
Speaker 3: was something like that. And in one of those frenzies,
Speaker 3: I did reply all and I said something negative about somebody,
Speaker 3: not somebody personally, but like a kind of a group,
Speaker 3: and oh my god, they.
Speaker 1: Got it and it was so bad.
Speaker 3: I think they have now forgot This was probably five
Speaker 3: years ago, and I think they've all forgiven me or
Speaker 3: have forgotten about it. But in the moment, it was
Speaker 3: so mortifying, and I mean part of it was like, well,
Speaker 3: now they know my true feelings about like I was
Speaker 3: sort of complaining about a group not doing the work
Speaker 3: I wanted them to do.
Speaker 2: So maybe because now they know that you wanted them
Speaker 2: to do the work right.
Speaker 3: A tiny bit of like, But no, I was really
Speaker 3: regretful because also, you know, there's gonna be some venting
Speaker 3: in your emails and it's not ever the way you
Speaker 3: want to provide feedback. So all I can say is
Speaker 3: it's happened to me, and we all recovered.
Speaker 1: And I hope to never do it again. And I'm
Speaker 1: pretty paranoid.
Speaker 3: Yeah you checked, now, Yeah, Gmail does have undecend Do
Speaker 3: you ever send? And you're like, I'm not sure, Just
Speaker 3: onto it right away and then you can always resend it,
Speaker 3: because better to do that than yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, and if you're ever well, first, probably best not
Speaker 2: to send hot emails. You know, say things live if
Speaker 2: there are things that you really want to say that
Speaker 2: might be misinterpreted or could come out the wrong way.
Speaker 2: But if you are sending an email, it. Sometimes it
Speaker 2: helps to fill in the address last because then you
Speaker 2: can have one more chance to think about it before
Speaker 2: it could go out into the world.
Speaker 1: Totally.
Speaker 3: An always have to assume anything you said and could
Speaker 3: go to anyone anyway, even when you're not.
Speaker 1: Replying all so oh, because people forward stuff.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's the thing, like, you know, take a
Speaker 3: picture with their phone and they text it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're reading down to the bottom of this long
Speaker 2: thread and it turns out that people were complaining about
Speaker 2: someone who's later like c Seed because it's now about
Speaker 2: a meeting that they're going to be in and yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: so yeah, all sorts of things can go wrong.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I don't think I've done anything close to that since.
Speaker 3: So maybe I learned a good valuable lesson.
Speaker 1: Valuable lesson. That's good. Well, on another note, have you
Speaker 1: ever danced on a table?
Speaker 2: I have? I have, so I believe it was was
Speaker 2: it that the bar's name was like Coyote Ugly that
Speaker 2: was in the movie, right, and that was the whole
Speaker 2: thing that they were dancing on the tep So I
Speaker 2: went to that bar while I was in New York
Speaker 2: at one point and figured I should dance on the table.
Speaker 2: Because like other people did too. I mean, it wasn't
Speaker 2: just me dancing on the table, that is awesome.
Speaker 1: I do not think I've danced on a table.
Speaker 3: I feel like now like sort of remembering this bar
Speaker 3: in Miami that like almost had like platforms that.
Speaker 1: Were sort of meant to dance. I don't know if
Speaker 1: I danced or not.
Speaker 3: We'll just leave that one in the If I was
Speaker 3: doing it, my memories are probably not very clear, so
Speaker 3: I can't say for sure.
Speaker 1: All right, next one, Laura, have you ever beaten a
Speaker 1: video game?
Speaker 2: I have Sarah, which one of the proudest moments of
Speaker 2: my life. I believe it was the Super Mario Brothers
Speaker 2: one that came with like the original one of those consoles,
Speaker 2: those early consoles. Yeah, I had like eight levels, I
Speaker 2: remember this, and there were like Where's workplaces you could
Speaker 2: go through with the mushrooms and the tunnels and you
Speaker 2: got the Princess. I got the Princess. So I had
Speaker 2: tried again and again to beat this, and you almost
Speaker 2: always as you were going up to Bowser at the end,
Speaker 2: would get hit. But one time when I was coming
Speaker 2: up to Bowser, I was a big Mario, right, so
Speaker 2: I had an extra Life. So I just went through
Speaker 2: and got knocked down the little Mario, but I won.
Speaker 1: So that was it. That must have been such a moment.
Speaker 1: It was such a moment. I never did it. I
Speaker 1: had a game, Genie. Do you remember game Genie?
Speaker 3: This is gonna be like the most sliver of demographic,
Speaker 3: but if you had one, you're gonna be like, yes,
Speaker 3: the game. It was like this little thing you like
Speaker 3: stuck onto the cartridge that like let you cheat. And
Speaker 3: I don't know, I mean no, I mean it was
Speaker 3: like a product that you could buy. I don't think
Speaker 3: it was a Nintendo product, but it was like and
Speaker 3: you could like be invincible.
Speaker 1: So I like beat it. I beat it with this
Speaker 1: It would like pack the game for you. So I
Speaker 1: beat it with the game Genie.
Speaker 3: And I will say I did get like past level
Speaker 3: twenty on Doctor Mario, but you never could do it.
Speaker 3: I don't think there's an end, or maybe if there is,
Speaker 3: I didn't get to it. So I've never really beaten
Speaker 3: a game. So congratulations, thank you, amazing.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I want this like on my teambstone. Yeah,
Speaker 1: should be on your CV, the first first line.
Speaker 2: Whatever else I've done, published books, no, no, no, I've
Speaker 2: beat Super Mario.
Speaker 1: All right, Sarah, have you ever screamed during a scary movie? Well?
Speaker 3: This one was funny because I was like, oh, I
Speaker 3: screamed today today during a movie. We're watching White Lotus,
Speaker 3: and like there was a scene that was very surprising
Speaker 3: and I just screamed.
Speaker 1: We won't do any spoilers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no spoilers, But if you don't like screaming, maybe
Speaker 2: don't watch it seriously, how about you. I just don't
Speaker 2: really watch movies. So that takes care of that one.
Speaker 2: But the next one people might say, never have I
Speaker 2: ever worked retail.
Speaker 1: I've worked retail. You've worked retail? Oh yeah, I like it.
Speaker 1: I mean it's fine. It wasn't even a bad job.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, well now you have. I mean, these days,
Speaker 2: we don't have to make change as much. I think
Speaker 2: that was more of a thing, like people use credit
Speaker 2: cards less in retail places.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't remember whether there was a lot of
Speaker 3: Yeah we had a cash register and stuff.
Speaker 1: I don't remember. I think I sweat people's card.
Speaker 3: It was a video store, so I think a lot
Speaker 3: of people would buy like a bunch of like credits,
Speaker 3: so they weren't even always spending money.
Speaker 2: They were like, I forget, how does that work? Because
Speaker 2: you were a member you had to be a member
Speaker 2: there or something. How does that even work?
Speaker 1: I forget.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they would they give their card, yeah, card, they'd
Speaker 3: purchase like a certain number of credits on the card,
Speaker 3: and then we'd be like, okay, now you're down to
Speaker 3: eighteen credits. So they were only like spending money every
Speaker 3: once in a while. Mostly they were just using credits, okay,
Speaker 3: unless they were buying a new card.
Speaker 1: Yes, nineteen ninety eight. Ah, the memories, it was great.
Speaker 1: It was great.
Speaker 2: But I particularly remember the Osco drug experience. Osco drug
Speaker 2: store in the mall. It was something, Yeah, that experience. Now,
Speaker 2: it's get to see a slice of life. What people
Speaker 2: are doing. They are they are they're buying stuff jampoo
Speaker 2: at the mall. I was there to help them with it.
Speaker 3: They were running all kinds of videos, all kinds of videos.
Speaker 1: All right, never have you ever visited a nude beach?
Speaker 1: So this is funny.
Speaker 2: This was a sort of early memory in my life
Speaker 2: because it was unintentional. So we lived in California for
Speaker 2: about four months when I was eight nine years old
Speaker 2: something like that, and we were there for a semester.
Speaker 2: My dad was teaching at a university there, and my
Speaker 2: mom took us kids to the beach and we were like, oh,
Speaker 2: go to this beach and we walk out and then
Speaker 2: there's like naked people standing out there on the beach.
Speaker 2: I was on a California's like nude beach and we're like, okay,
Speaker 2: we're turning around. Yes, we'll go to a different pech,
Speaker 2: go to a different beach. Yeah, memorable, memorable. Now you
Speaker 2: know these things for memories in life.
Speaker 1: I have never been to a nude beach. That's really funny.
Speaker 2: I know you better bear sunscreen if you do go
Speaker 2: to one. That'll be our public service.
Speaker 1: I guess you don't have any like tamline issues. That's true.
Speaker 1: That's true, so that could be helpful. All right, sir.
Speaker 1: Have you ever had a black eye?
Speaker 3: Yes, but I don't have any good, like dramatic stories
Speaker 3: about it. I just remember I think I also had truerleading. Actually,
Speaker 3: I will say I think I had one story where
Speaker 3: I had a black eye, like maybe shortly after the
Speaker 3: stitches thing, and then I had like a teacher ask
Speaker 3: if like everything was okay at home, and I'm like no,
Speaker 3: I'm in a violent sport, leave me.
Speaker 1: Alone, because it was.
Speaker 2: It was, and cheerleading turns out to be violently all
Speaker 2: the stunting. The stunting, Yeah, they were flipping over and
Speaker 2: doing your your flip in your house and hitting the table.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds so glad.
Speaker 2: I kind of gave that up after one year before
Speaker 2: doing any flips.
Speaker 1: So mine was a botox injury.
Speaker 2: But the injection, I think it must have just gotten
Speaker 2: a little bit of a spot or something, and so
Speaker 2: I had a bruise where I had the injection, and
Speaker 2: so yeah, it was fortunately it mostly looked like eyeliner
Speaker 2: like where it was.
Speaker 1: Hopefully you were like about to give a talk or something.
Speaker 2: I remember I was giving a talk and I just
Speaker 2: put heavy eyeliner on the other side.
Speaker 1: All right, you made it match smoky Eye.
Speaker 3: We did actually hear from somebody because we talked about
Speaker 3: botox on a prior episode and like someone did remind
Speaker 3: me like rarely there are bad side effects to botox.
Speaker 3: Like anything you do, there's always a possibility it won't
Speaker 3: go right or it will cause problems.
Speaker 1: So everything's a risk. You have to just decide what
Speaker 1: you feel is worth it.
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, Well, this has been our rousing game of
Speaker 2: never have I ever I feel like we probably played
Speaker 2: it wrong. We're supposed to say something different, but whatever,
Speaker 2: Now you know a bunch of random facts, random facts
Speaker 2: about Sarah and me.
Speaker 1: We have a question, don't we do we?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, we do. I've wrut on by the way we're
Speaker 1: in this closet together.
Speaker 3: Yes, we do tend to go for more Q and
Speaker 3: A type episodes or just chatty episodes and we're together.
Speaker 3: It just feels more natural. We will be back with
Speaker 3: some more interview and topical types of episodes next week.
Speaker 3: But we had a fun question and it was just
Speaker 3: because it's getting springier and not so dark in the
Speaker 3: evening hours, and someone was asking, what would be a
Speaker 3: low stakes neighborhood event if I, like, really don't feel
Speaker 3: intimidated by the idea of hosting, but just want to
Speaker 3: do something, what would you recommend for like a first
Speaker 3: go round?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think the idea of like an open
Speaker 2: house kind of concept is pretty low stakes. So you
Speaker 2: could just like email the neighborhood list if you have one,
Speaker 2: or you can go put invitations in people's mailboxes or
Speaker 2: on their porches, but say, you know, we'll be hanging
Speaker 2: out on the porch Saturday night, the weather's nice. We'll
Speaker 2: have dessert and drinks out there. Please stop buy when
Speaker 2: you can and just have cookies, maybe have a cooler
Speaker 2: with ice cream bars in it or something. Have drinks
Speaker 2: for adults and children if there are a lot of kids,
Speaker 2: have stuff for kids, like sidewalk chalk or bubbles, and
Speaker 2: you know, just see who comes by, and even if
Speaker 2: it's only a few people, it'll probably still be a
Speaker 2: reasonably good time. And it's low steaks, so it's not
Speaker 2: like you put in some huge catering order and then
Speaker 2: didn't have anyone come, so it'll it'll be fine.
Speaker 3: I've done that with wine and cheese as well. And
Speaker 3: I really like the idea of it being like drop
Speaker 3: in versus like hour to hour, because then people don't
Speaker 3: feel pressured to stay, but they probably will anyway, and then
Speaker 3: they can kind of like come in and out. But
Speaker 3: you might want to if you want to put like
Speaker 3: an and drop by any time between blank and blank,
Speaker 3: and then you also have an end time built in.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that might be a low stakes way to
Speaker 2: do it, but I definitely encourage people to try hosting
Speaker 2: because it can be a lot of fun to bring
Speaker 2: people together, and it's not like some people.
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe there are some.
Speaker 2: People who are completely and totally natural hosts, but I
Speaker 2: think for a lot of people, it's just something you
Speaker 2: become more comfortable with the more you do it. And
Speaker 2: then you're like, oh, yeah, that's where our extra chairs are,
Speaker 2: and that's where our cooler is, and that's how we
Speaker 2: get enough ice to have drinks be cold. And you
Speaker 2: figure those things out, so yeah, all good.
Speaker 1: Yes. Love of the Week, Sarah.
Speaker 3: My love of the week is the brand AYR, which
Speaker 3: stands for all year Round, which I learned about from
Speaker 3: my friend Lonnie, who is a stylistic real lifestyle I
Speaker 3: learned all.
Speaker 1: Of my fashion stuff from her.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I've been wearing one pair of jeans from
Speaker 3: them for like for forever, and then I was like,
Speaker 3: you know what, I need more than one pair of
Speaker 3: jeans in my wardrobe, so I ordered two others and
Speaker 3: I love them all. Like they're not the cheapest, but
Speaker 3: if I'm wearing the same thing day and day out,
Speaker 3: which is what I tend to do, then I feel
Speaker 3: like that is a category where I like to splurgeon.
Speaker 3: And I actually have not ever gotten anything. I've got
Speaker 3: a couple of tops from them too. I have yet
Speaker 3: to be disappointed. So AYR not a sponsor, not a
Speaker 3: sponsor to like it? They could be it could be awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I'm going to say I like parties in general.
Speaker 2: Like I think it's always fun when people do host things,
Speaker 2: and I've tried to do a few of my myself,
Speaker 2: and I hope to do more. But I think a
Speaker 2: lot of times people feel like it's too much work,
Speaker 2: and it can be a lot of work if you
Speaker 2: try to make a little work, but nobody has to
Speaker 2: be Martha Stewart, and you know you can still have
Speaker 2: a really good time.
Speaker 1: So I'll say parties in general, I like it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's true, Like when have you ever gone to
Speaker 3: a party and been like that wasn't a good party?
Speaker 2: Never terrible fun. You see people, it's generally pretty good.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, this has been best of both worlds
Speaker 2: we've been playing. Never have I ever. We will be
Speaker 2: back next week with.
Speaker 1: More on making work and life fit together. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com
Speaker 3: or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram.
Speaker 1: And you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.
Speaker 1: This has been the best of both worlds podcasts.
Speaker 2: Please join us next time for more on making work
Speaker 2: and life work together.