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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Tuesday, September sixteenth. Happy Tuesday, everybody.

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Speaker 2: It's talk Back Tuesday. But unexpectedly or expectedly, we have

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Speaker 2: a stacked night of headlines. You should know that state

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Speaker 2: charges have officially been filed against accused killer of conservative

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Speaker 2: analyst Tyler Robinson, the Epstein Files. They continue to shake

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Speaker 2: up Congress, and Luigi Mangione is back in court today

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Speaker 2: and I think you're all going to be surprised about

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Speaker 2: what went down. So we're going to be filling you

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Speaker 2: much on all of those details. But also let's not forget.

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Speaker 2: Amanda Knox is going to be You're live for one

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Speaker 2: full hour on Thursday, So if you have any questions

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Speaker 2: for Amanda, please start sending them in now. We want

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Speaker 2: to hear your talkbacks. We want to get you calling

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Speaker 2: at eight eight eight three one Crime. You can leave

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Speaker 2: a message anytime, or you can always hit us up

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Speaker 2: on our socials at True Crime Tonight show on TikTok

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Speaker 2: and Instagram, or at True Crime Tonight on Facebook. I'm

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Speaker 2: Stephanie Leidecker and I head up KT Studios where we

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Speaker 2: make true crime podcasts and documentaries and I get to

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Speaker 2: be here every night with Body Movin and Courtney Armstrong

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Speaker 2: and ladies. I know we have talkbacks to get to.

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Speaker 2: But again, this day has been wild Washington, d C.

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Speaker 2: A lot going on right now and a lot of

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Speaker 2: people in court. So Courtney Armstrong, where should we start?

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Speaker 3: I think we should start with what has been in

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Speaker 3: this hugely busy news cycle, what has still been at

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Speaker 3: the top of it, which is Tyler Robinson had his

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Speaker 3: first court appearance today and he, of course is charged

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Speaker 3: with aggravated murder in the killing of conservative activist Charlie Pirk.

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Speaker 3: Prosecutors have announced their intent to seek the death penalty.

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Speaker 3: And Tyler appeared virtually and he was wearing sort of

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Speaker 3: one of those their anti suicide vests if you can picture.

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Speaker 3: My best picture is from Brian Colberger. I think I've

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Speaker 3: heard them called a turtle suit. He was largely emotionless

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Speaker 3: and there was he said very few words. So Judge

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Speaker 3: gaff ordered Robinson to remain in custody without bail.

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Speaker 4: I don't think there's any surprise there. And the death

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Speaker 4: penalty is going.

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Speaker 3: To be pursued based on the nature of the crime,

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Speaker 3: which is also I don't think any surprise to any

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Speaker 3: of us. This has really taken the nation by just

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Speaker 3: everyone is transfixed. And he was provisionally assigned a court

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Speaker 3: appointed attorney after he was declared integen, so he cannot

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Speaker 3: afford his own attorney in this moment, and so one

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Speaker 3: will officially be brought to him. And the next hearing

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Speaker 3: is scheduled for September twenty ninth, and that as well,

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Speaker 3: will be conducted virtually.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the rubber hits the road, right. I mean, we've

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Speaker 2: all been watching this. We've all been fixed on the

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Speaker 2: television today, watching the news on every possible channel, every

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Speaker 2: possible source, because again, there's so many perspectives on this

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Speaker 2: case and we just want to make sure we're hearing

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Speaker 2: them all and just bring in the facts. So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: today was a very monumental day. And again our hearts

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Speaker 2: are with all of the students that were there witness

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Speaker 2: to this. You know, they're still recovering emotionally speaking, and

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Speaker 2: of course to Charlie Kirk's wife and two young children.

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Speaker 5: Right, And I want to clear something up too, These

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Speaker 5: were just state charges today, right this, there's no federal

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Speaker 5: charge yet.

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Speaker 4: Correct, there is no federal charge by that. I'm a

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Speaker 4: little surprised by that. Not maybe some are coming perhaps

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Speaker 4: to come. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I remember hearing, you know, several pundits saying that Utah

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Speaker 3: is a great state for this. I think the death penalty,

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Speaker 3: which that can be brought federally, I think do have

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Speaker 3: that option, is something that prosecutors.

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Speaker 5: Might have wanted, right, And I think the death penalty

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Speaker 5: is warranted in this situation. I mean, put aside and

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Speaker 5: it's hard to do that, but put aside the assassination

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Speaker 5: of a person. But Tyler Robinson, if he is guilty

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Speaker 5: of this, and I do believe they have the right guy.

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Speaker 5: If he is guilty of this, he put all those

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Speaker 5: other people in danger too. I mean there were thousands

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Speaker 5: of people there, right, I mean, like, unless he's like

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Speaker 5: this expert marksman, and I don't think that he is right.

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Speaker 5: Unless he's this expert marksman. He put all those people

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Speaker 5: that were standing so close to Charlie Kirk in an

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Speaker 5: immense danger.

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Speaker 4: It's so true. Yeah, and by the way, I mean

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Speaker 4: even his buddies.

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Speaker 2: So now we're saying that he was in fact on

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Speaker 2: a very specific chat on discord, and there's and so

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Speaker 2: much chatter about this as well. So imagine you get

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Speaker 2: this message from one of your buddies and they're basically

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Speaker 2: confessing to an assassination and the entire world is looking

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Speaker 2: for the killer. You know, that's also putting people in

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Speaker 2: a very tough spot. Cashertel was, you know, sitting before

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Speaker 2: the Advisory the House Committee board today and you know

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Speaker 2: a lot of tough questions. You know, where was that

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Speaker 2: confession letter? Apparently he had left a note for his

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Speaker 2: roommate and that note is no longer.

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Speaker 4: There's a photograph of it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's right, right, So listen, there's a ton of

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Speaker 2: back and forth, and again it seems as though he

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Speaker 2: is essentially confessing, you know, he confessed to his parents,

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Speaker 2: put them in a really tough spot. They were able

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Speaker 2: to make him turn himself in. And then it appears

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Speaker 2: there were, you know, frankly, very glib messages being shared

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Speaker 2: on this Discord platform between him and his buddies a

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Speaker 2: little bit, and you know, you got to wonder. I

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Speaker 2: guess he was just planning on getting caught well. And

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Speaker 2: I think we should be clear about the Discord messages too.

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Speaker 5: The Discord messages, a lot of them were not related

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Speaker 5: at all to the assassination. A lot of them were

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Speaker 5: just previous messages of like Tyler playing his game hell

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Speaker 5: Fire too.

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Speaker 4: I think it is.

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Speaker 5: And that's where the catchphrase comes from. You know that

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Speaker 5: one of the catchphrases from the bullets comes from. But

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Speaker 5: in any event, the Discord messages, there's a couple that

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Speaker 5: it says, oh my god, Charlie Kirk was shopped, and

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Speaker 5: then another person says, really, oh my god, is he

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Speaker 5: dead or you know, I'm paraphrasing, and then another guy says, yeah,

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Speaker 5: he's dead, and then another person says, wow, rip, you

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Speaker 5: know that's terrible, something along those lines. And then the

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Speaker 5: next message we see is Tyler Robinson saying, hey, guys,

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Speaker 5: it was me. I'm really sorry, you know. So, I

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Speaker 5: don't know, I don't know. Here's the thing. The reporter

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Speaker 5: that reached out to the people on this discord, or

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Speaker 5: maybe they reached out to him.

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Speaker 4: I'm sure that's probably what happened.

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Speaker 5: We don't know if any of the messages were deleted, right,

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Speaker 5: We don't know if it's a cherry pick. Right, We

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Speaker 5: don't write if messages were cherry picked or messages were deleted.

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Speaker 5: But you know, the authorities are going to be able

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Speaker 5: to figure that out because Discord will have records of those.

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Speaker 5: But it didn't seem like the people in Discord. It

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Speaker 5: was a gaming discord. It seemed very apolitical in there.

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Speaker 5: It was just guys playing games. I think I mentioned

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Speaker 5: the other night that's how now what I used Discord

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Speaker 5: for to play World work Craft way back in the day,

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Speaker 5: and I would be like, Okay, I'm gonna power up

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Speaker 5: and shoot my you know, frost bolts and stuff, you know,

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Speaker 5: like it was nothing. And that's kind of the vibe

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Speaker 5: I was getting from this discord as well. But I

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Speaker 5: could be wrong.

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Speaker 3: The letter, by the way that you referred to Stephanie,

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Speaker 3: that you know, was referenced but couldn't be found. So

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Speaker 3: on September tenth, Tyler had mentioned to his roommate, Hey,

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Speaker 3: I have there's a piece of paper under my keyboard,

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Speaker 3: and then the roommate saw it and what it said

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Speaker 3: was I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Perk

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Speaker 3: and I'm going to take it. And at that point

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Speaker 3: my understanding is the roommate then disposed of it or

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Speaker 3: that no one is quite your red letters in this moment.

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Speaker 4: But they took a picture.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, somebody took a picture, because in the charging document

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Speaker 5: that was released from the State of Utah, it says

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Speaker 5: that police have a photograph of this note. That's how

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Speaker 5: they discovered it. So the police didn't find the note

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Speaker 5: under the keyp ordery thing like the roommate did because

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Speaker 5: Tyler Robinson told them to go get it right. And

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Speaker 5: that's in such a tough spot, it does, you know.

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Speaker 2: Again, there's so much conversation about could there be co

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Speaker 2: conspirators and we don't know the answer to that, nor

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Speaker 2: are we suggesting that we do. But based on the

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Speaker 2: information we have right now, the roommates and the friends

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Speaker 2: that he was chatting with on discord were uninvolved. But boy,

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Speaker 2: do you bring a lot of heavy artillery to your

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Speaker 2: home when you are suddenly the roommate or a bud

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Speaker 2: of a man who's now been accused of political assassination. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: guess what the cops are going to be at your

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Speaker 2: door tearing up your house. Yeah, you know, these are

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Speaker 2: people who have jobs, I assume, and even his mom

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Speaker 2: and dad, you know, their house is now going to

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Speaker 2: be gone through as it should. But again, you're bringing

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Speaker 2: so much to so many people who apparently love you.

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Speaker 5: Right, it's really sad, and it's just sad all around.

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Speaker 5: I mean, for right now, all we know is, I'm

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Speaker 5: sure the authorities are investigating every aspect of these people's lives,

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Speaker 5: right they're being torn apart, and I'm sure they'll find

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Speaker 5: if there's anything there, I'm sure.

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Speaker 4: We'll find it.

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Speaker 2: The one thing I always found interesting too, And I'm

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Speaker 2: just curious if anybody listening has an opinion.

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Speaker 4: Listen, we don't know the answers.

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Speaker 2: We're just following the information as it's being released. But

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Speaker 2: the idea that he was carrying this you know, very

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Speaker 2: large gun down his pants. We saw the video of

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Speaker 2: him on you know, ring cameras kind of limping by

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Speaker 2: in the neighborhood nearby, with the assertion that that would

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Speaker 2: be his gun was making him limp because he had

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Speaker 2: it hidden in his pants.

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Speaker 4: Did he change his clothes? Like when does that all

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Speaker 4: go down? Did that all go.

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Speaker 5: We am, But he does say in the converse in

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Speaker 5: the charging document there's a text exchange with his roommate

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Speaker 5: and he says, I left the gun and like in

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Speaker 5: a towel, and I changed my clothes, So we do

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Speaker 5: know he changed his clothes.

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Speaker 2: Like where does he possibly change his clothes? And how

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Speaker 2: is that not on camera? And you know, there's also

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Speaker 2: been a lot of chatter, this is online chatter, not

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Speaker 2: as reported in the news, about the reward that was

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Speaker 2: given to anyone who actually brought him in and ins

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Speaker 2: a sizable reward, and that now there's chatter that Tyler Robbins's.

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Speaker 4: Father will get that reward.

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Speaker 2: We went down that rabbit hole and it does not

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Speaker 2: seem to be substantiated, but there's tons of chatter about

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Speaker 2: that as well.

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Speaker 5: Nayah, I don't think that's going to come to fruition.

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Speaker 5: Rewards are almost impossible to claim in perfect circumstances. You know,

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Speaker 5: you have to follow a bunch of rules to claim rewards,

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Speaker 5: and I don't think that that's going to apply in

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Speaker 5: the situation.

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Speaker 2: And that's the scary part because everybody's on social media.

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Speaker 2: You're here, everybody's opinions and we don't know what's real

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Speaker 2: and AI and you know, everybody's cherry picking certain soundbites

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Speaker 2: from either side, and and certainly today a very big,

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Speaker 2: powerful day in front of Congress, and lots of part

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Speaker 2: hitting questions in a lot of part hitting categories, this

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Speaker 2: being one of them. But again, I guess you know,

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Speaker 2: it's really hard to find really great sourcing, so we

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Speaker 2: are doing our forty four hour day best to really

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Speaker 2: keep it clean and just by the facts. If anybody

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Speaker 2: listening has new information that they want to share or

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Speaker 2: a personal connection to the case, we of course want

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Speaker 2: to hear it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's even your opinion, correct, Yeah, give us a call.

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Speaker 3: Honestly, eight of eight three to one crime we would

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Speaker 3: love to hear from you, whether it is about what's

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Speaker 3: going on with Charlie Kirk or anything else in the

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Speaker 3: news or crime related that you want to share with us.

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Speaker 3: I'm Courtney Armstrong and here with Stephanie Leidecker and body

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Speaker 3: move in and I think we have time for a

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Speaker 3: talk back.

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Speaker 6: My question to you is do you think that there

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Speaker 6: was more than one person involved in the Charlie Kirk case.

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Speaker 4: Lots of chatter about that as well.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't think so, but again I'm not setting

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Speaker 5: stone in that either though, Like this is like a

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Speaker 5: really fluid moving, you know case right now, I don't

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Speaker 5: think that we're going to find that other people were involved.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I tend to agree with that as well. And

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Speaker 2: I guess that's what also makes this incredibly scary and

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Speaker 2: why this whole you know, everyone's being radicalized on the

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Speaker 2: dark web web is such an important conversation because it's

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Speaker 2: really the idea centered around a loan wolf that's very

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Speaker 2: hard to identify, you know, body, you're talking about Discord

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Speaker 2: and a small little chat group. You know that we

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Speaker 2: even heard this on you know, in front of Congress

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Speaker 2: today of you know, how do we control this? How

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Speaker 2: do we control this? It's not as though there are

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Speaker 2: thousands of people in these chat rooms. We're talking five people.

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Speaker 2: So it's really hard to monitor on the web or

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Speaker 2: on these platforms, or even the platform for that matter,

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Speaker 2: to monitor, you know, conversations amongst a small grouping of people.

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Speaker 2: And it's even harder to identify the one lone wolf

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Speaker 2: who's kind of stuck in his head and getting radicalized

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Speaker 2: without anyone knowing it.

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Speaker 4: That's true.

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Speaker 5: I didn't see anything in the reporting done on the

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Speaker 5: Discord messages. By the way, I just want everybody to

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Speaker 5: know again, and this could be cherry picked. I don't know,

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Speaker 5: but I didn't see anything about planning anything.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, there has been no assertion of that either.

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Speaker 2: It's really just a general larger conversation that we're just

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Speaker 2: trying to address, I think as a country and how

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Speaker 2: do we be responsible and protect ourselves.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think there's that You're going to run into

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Speaker 5: a lot of problems with that. I mean, there's it's

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Speaker 5: not just discord. There's a ton of thats. I mean,

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Speaker 5: they were planning a war on signal for crying out loud.

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Speaker 4: I mean that's true. You know, I mean, what are

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Speaker 4: you going to do? It's impossible to put you know,

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Speaker 4: everything back in the box.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it is impossible to put everything back in the box,

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Speaker 3: is right. One last piece of information I did want

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Speaker 3: to share is that the other night you guys had said, oh,

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Speaker 3: why don't we know that there's DNA on the gun?

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Speaker 3: And it was released that DNA evidence does Matt Robinson

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Speaker 3: from the rifles, trigger and the casings.

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Speaker 2: So that us to really talk about not trying to

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Speaker 2: cover up anything.

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Speaker 4: So keep it they have the guy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, as of right now, listen, keep it here. We

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Speaker 3: have a lot more when we come back, including journalist

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Speaker 3: Lydia Jean Kott, Keep it Here, True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 4: And listen. It's a huge night talk back Tuesday.

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Speaker 2: We've been stacking them and getting all kinds of talkbacks,

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Speaker 2: so we're really excited to hear from you guys. Thank

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Speaker 2: you for sharing your thoughts and if you want to

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Speaker 2: join us live, please do eight eight eight three one

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Speaker 2: Crime Now Listen. We have a very special guest joining

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Speaker 2: US journalist Gene HoTT. She has a brand new podcast

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Speaker 2: that just dropped today, The Chinatown Sting Listen. She's a

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Speaker 2: very important journalist and producer. She's worked at NPR, in BBC,

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Speaker 2: World Courtney.

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Speaker 4: These are our favorites.

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Speaker 2: She's also the current senior producer and editor at Pushkin Industry.

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Speaker 4: So welcome to the show, Lydia, Hi, Hi.

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Speaker 7: Lydia Hi, what a nice introduction. It's so so great

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Speaker 7: to be on the show. So cool.

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Speaker 2: Congratulations on the big show that's you know, the podcast

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Speaker 2: that premiered today. That's a very big deal and really

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Speaker 2: an important topic.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, and what a great way to celebrate it by

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Speaker 7: I can to talk to you guys about it.

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Speaker 4: Oh, we're so happy to help.

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Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely and yeah, that first episode drop date, it's

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Speaker 3: kind of like birthing a baby a little bit. I'm

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Speaker 3: going to let people know a little bit about and

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Speaker 3: then we have tons of questions if you allow, so

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Speaker 3: listen the Chinatown Sting. It uncovers a forgotten heroin smuggling case.

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Speaker 3: This happened in the nineteen eighties Manhattan, Chinatown. So women

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Speaker 3: were recruited from Majong parlors and became part of this

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Speaker 3: international network that had drugs in tea boxes, led to

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Speaker 3: the downfall of a gangster known as Machine Johnny. It's

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Speaker 3: all it's very very spicy stuff. And of course it

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Speaker 3: is hosted by miss Lydia here. So what first drew you.

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Speaker 4: To this case?

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Speaker 7: So you know, as a journalist, I am really interested

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Speaker 7: in the law, and maybe as a theater kid, I

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Speaker 7: sort of love courtroom dramas. And I wrote an audiobook

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Speaker 7: that was about the Supreme Court actually in different like

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Speaker 7: legal theories, and I really got into covering trials when

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Speaker 7: I covered the trials fam Makeman Freed. I don't know

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Speaker 7: if you guys remember the crypto, the Fallen from Grace

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Speaker 7: crypto really.

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Speaker 4: Of course, yes, of course.

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Speaker 7: So yeah, that was a really crazy trial to cover

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Speaker 7: because he actually took the stand, which you know will

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Speaker 7: hardly ever do. And then yeah, I came, you know,

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Speaker 7: into possession of the suitcase of all these court documents

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Speaker 7: telling the story of this case from the nineteen eighties,

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Speaker 7: and I was just like immediately drawn in. Like it

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Speaker 7: had female heroines. It was about this like huge gangster

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Speaker 7: who known I personally had never even heard of before

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Speaker 7: machine Gun Johnny. It had you know, I didn't know

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Speaker 7: about how they used to be all these like Majong

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Speaker 7: parlors in Chinatown and Majo is kind of a trendy

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Speaker 7: game now, so it was fun to learn how to

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Speaker 7: play it while I was reporting this story. And you know,

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Speaker 7: so that's bically what drew me into it. And I

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Speaker 7: had a personal connection to the story too, because it's

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Speaker 7: actually again to this in the podcast, but I have

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Speaker 7: a personal connection to the prosecutor in this case. And

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Speaker 7: when she gave me permission to tell the story, I

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Speaker 7: was like, I really want to see whether it's possible

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Speaker 7: and whether the people who are involved, like whether there's

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Speaker 7: any chance that they would talk about it, and.

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Speaker 4: Talked exactly.

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Speaker 7: So many questions and so many people at once.

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Speaker 5: I know, so the smuggling operation that was used in

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Speaker 5: these Majong pollos and using the tea boxes and all that.

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Speaker 5: Can you break down just for the listeners about like

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Speaker 5: how that worked?

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Speaker 7: Yes, Okay, So there was this you know, big deal gangster.

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Speaker 7: His name was Johnny Yang and he hadnctions in Hong

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Speaker 7: Kong to heroin, so like he was able to get

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Speaker 7: the drug pretty easily. The question, right was how could

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Speaker 7: he get it into New York City without getting caught?

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Speaker 7: And the second in command of this gang that he

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Speaker 7: was the head of had this girlfriend who was very

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Speaker 7: gregarious and she was a big gambler. She loved hanging

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Speaker 7: out in the Majong parlors and she also knew everybody,

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Speaker 7: and everybody thought she was awesome because she is awesome

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Speaker 7: and has a very charismatic and magnetic personality. And she

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Speaker 7: basically kind of recruited these women who she knew from

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Speaker 7: the Majong parlors to agree to receive boxes.

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Speaker 2: In the mail.

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Speaker 7: And it was the sort of thing where they she

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Speaker 7: would like, well, I'll pay money and all you have

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Speaker 7: to do is be home and then this package will arrive.

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Speaker 7: And she recruited people who had reasons to like agree

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Speaker 7: to accept a package in the mill without asking too

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Speaker 7: many questions like maybe their husbands weren't paying child support,

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Speaker 7: maybe they had them umbling, that's some mush on like whatever.

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Speaker 7: But these were not. These were mostly like young moms,

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Speaker 7: not criminals at all, because it had to be people

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Speaker 7: who were not being watched in any ways. These were

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Speaker 7: just regular people in China. And then the way that

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Speaker 7: the scheme works is they would agree to receive these packages.

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Speaker 7: And these were packages that were shipped from Hong Kong

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Speaker 7: that had tea and stuffed peppers or peppers and stuffed animals,

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Speaker 7: and inside of each box was also like millions of

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Speaker 7: dollars worth of carolin. And she was kind of overseeing

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Speaker 7: what happened. So the woman would receive the box and

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Speaker 7: then you know, she'd be like stay home on these,

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Speaker 7: you know, between these three days, and then like let

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Speaker 7: me know when you received the box. And then when

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Speaker 7: they received it, she'd be like take it to this person,

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Speaker 7: and then that person would take it to that person.

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Speaker 7: So it was like a long change that was pretty

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Speaker 7: much untraceable to the man who was on the top.

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Speaker 4: That seems like a pretty smart operation.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it was. I mean, it works quite well. They

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Speaker 7: got a lot of drugs then for sure.

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Speaker 5: Right, this is true crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, I'm Body

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Speaker 5: Moved and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker

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Speaker 5: and we are talking to Lydia Jean Kott about her

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Speaker 5: new podcast.

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Speaker 4: It sounds really fascinating. It's called the China Town Sting,

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Speaker 4: And we want to hear from you.

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Speaker 5: Give us a call at eighty to eight thirty one

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Speaker 5: crime or hit us up on the talkbacks on the

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Speaker 5: iHeart Radio app. So tell us about Johnny Ang. He

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Speaker 5: seems like he would machine Johnny by the way, I

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Speaker 5: love that name, that Moniker. It's fascinating. He's like a

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Speaker 5: central figure in all this. Right, who was he and

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Speaker 5: why was he so feared?

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Speaker 7: Yes, machine gun Johnny. So he was the head of

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Speaker 7: a gang called the Flying Dragon, which was a really

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Speaker 7: powerful gang in the nineteen eighties and Chinatown, and basically

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Speaker 7: in the this is no longer true in Manhatan, Chinatown,

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Speaker 7: this is no longer true at all. But in the

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Speaker 7: nineteen eighties gangs in Chinatown were really powerful, like they

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Speaker 7: kind of ran the neighborhood like, and different gangs extorted

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Speaker 7: different shopkeepers. So if you went into a store, you know,

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Speaker 7: how you have your liquor license, there would be another

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Speaker 7: little plaque that said, like what gang you were affiliated with?

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Speaker 7: And people were really scared to speak out against them

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Speaker 7: because you know, the police wasn't really paying attention to

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Speaker 7: what was going on in Chinatown. Like the gangs basically

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Speaker 7: ran the whole thing. And there was one guy called

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Speaker 7: mb Lee who was kind of like the unofficial mayor

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Speaker 7: who did he owned a small business. He tried to

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Speaker 7: like stand up against the gangs, and then he ended

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Speaker 7: up getting stabbed three times. And I talked to former

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Speaker 7: gangsteries who were like, yeah, you know when that happened,

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Speaker 7: that's been a message to everyone in Chinatown that if

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Speaker 7: you speak out, you're not safe. So he wielded a

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Speaker 7: lot of a lot of power for that reason. But also,

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Speaker 7: you know, it's kind of very much reminiscent of like

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Speaker 7: how the mafia used to work. He also was like

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Speaker 7: the community that came back to the community.

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Speaker 8: And was like a family man.

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Speaker 7: And so there's two sides, right, Like that's kind of

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Speaker 7: how it works back then.

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Speaker 3: Unbelievable And what was it like getting all of these

436
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,679
Speaker 3: people to talk from something that happened. I mean, this

437
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,640
Speaker 3: didn't happen yesterday, It happened in the eighties. Was it

438
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 3: a difficult process? Were people open to speaking with you?

439
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:18,680
Speaker 4: Yeah?

440
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 7: I mean that was kind of like I knew I

441
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,680
Speaker 7: would only you know, obviously, this podcast wasn't going to

442
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,719
Speaker 7: work unless people were willing to talk to me. And

443
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,679
Speaker 7: I really wanted to speak to the women who are

444
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 7: part of the ring, the woman from the Majan parlors,

445
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,119
Speaker 7: and none of them had ever done any sort of

446
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 7: interviews before. And now, actually I've been working on this

447
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,119
Speaker 7: podcast for a few years and it's changed a little bit.

448
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,400
Speaker 7: But at the time, like very few people had even

449
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 7: like as opposed to the like the Italian mafia. I

450
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 7: feel like those gangsteries, like they not have podcasts, et cetera.

451
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 7: Like there was much less out there about the gangsters

452
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 7: of China ten in the nineteen eighties. So I really

453
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,399
Speaker 7: wasn't sure if people were going to be willing to talk.

454
00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 7: And I had a co reporter named Stu Wang, and

455
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 7: really just like found the names in the court documents

456
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 7: and we're just we had the names of all the

457
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 7: women and we're just like basically ringing doorbells and we

458
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 7: found a couple. Yeah, and we found a couple that

459
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,440
Speaker 7: did agree to talk. And I think it's because what's

460
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,679
Speaker 7: kind of at the heart of the story is the

461
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 7: relationship that developed between the woman in the Madrone parlors

462
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,880
Speaker 7: and the federal prosecutor, who was also a woman who

463
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 7: was about the same age. And I think that even

464
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 7: though they were on opposite as the law, they were

465
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 7: kind of like had a lot of respect for each other.

466
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 7: And this was like a five year case, and I

467
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 7: think they were both kind of to some degree rooting

468
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 7: for each other throughout. And I really think that it's

469
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 7: because of my connection to the federal prosecutor and because

470
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,439
Speaker 7: I told them that and that she was going to

471
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 7: be in the podcast, they also agreed to be in

472
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 7: the podcast because they wanted to know about her and

473
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 7: also trusted her judgment, interestingly enough.

474
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 2: Which is a huge thing because also if you've been

475
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 2: essentially drug muling, whether you know it or not, by

476
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 2: the way, that's a very common thing. And I think

477
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,479
Speaker 2: it's so interesting that you're unpacking this. You know, somebody says, hey, look,

478
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 2: I'm going to send you a package of tea if

479
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 2: you wouldn't mind just accepting it.

480
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 4: You know, I would just accept it if it was

481
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 4: the right.

482
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 2: Price, probably twice, sure, almost move it in the pile

483
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 2: with the other millions of Amazon boxes that store up

484
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 2: throughout the week and no big deal. Yeah, little do

485
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 2: you know there's a million dollars of heroin in it?

486
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 2: That's major.

487
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's very like isn't that it does not happen

488
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 7: in oranges in New Black?

489
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 9: Yes?

490
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 4: Exactly exactly. We were just talking about that.

491
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, funny enough, And it takes a lot of courage

492
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 2: for these majon ladies to really speak out, you know,

493
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 2: because even though it has been you know, decades since

494
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 2: this was happening, it's still pretty dangerous stuff and you know,

495
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,199
Speaker 2: important that we're talking about it, and so great that

496
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 2: you were putting a light on this.

497
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 5: So how did you approach telling the story it's rooted

498
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 5: in like immigration and Chinese American communities without like reinforcing

499
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 5: any stereotypes, Like how did you take that approach? It's

500
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,360
Speaker 5: got to be like kind of difficult to do it.

501
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 5: It seems like you've done a pretty masterful job of

502
00:24:58,359 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 5: doing So how did you accomplish that?

503
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 9: Well?

504
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 7: I definitely like I worked with so I had a

505
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 7: co reporter from the beginning who actually just recently moved

506
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 7: back to China. Unfortunately early miss her she is that

507
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,239
Speaker 7: missus Wang, Yes exactly, and she was like, she's just

508
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 7: a friend of a friend, and she basically when I

509
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 7: got the suitcase, I was like will you I met

510
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 7: up with her at a bar and I was like,

511
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 7: will you help me with this case? And she was

512
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 7: the most perfect partner you could imagine because she's actually

513
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 7: was at the time a practicing lawyer in New York

514
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 7: City and was from the same region of China, like

515
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 7: a little bit outside of Hong Kong as all of

516
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 7: the women who are in this story. So we reported

517
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 7: it out together. But the truth that were both kind

518
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 7: of She had moved to New York like three or

519
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 7: four years ago, and you know, spent a lot of

520
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 7: time in Chinatown, like taking dance classes and you know, shopping,

521
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 7: and I'd gone to the restaurant, So we were both

522
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 7: not like from Chinatown Chinatown. So we also brought on

523
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 7: a consultant her name is wrong, and she breaks through

524
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 7: listening to how which is one of the biggest newspapers

525
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 7: in Chinatown, and we had her look through our scripts

526
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 7: as well, and we also made, you know, definitely the podcast.

527
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 7: It's pretty and it's actually quite We sent her the

528
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 7: voices of like everyone people who are actually in the story, right,

529
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 7: So it's former gangsters, the women who received the packages,

530
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 7: and the prosecutors. It's the very first person and historians.

531
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 7: We also many historians because the cultural context is really important, right.

532
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 5: Well, the cultural context is a big part of the

533
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 5: story too. I mean, these are women who are immigrants, right,

534
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 5: and they rely on one another too. There's like like

535
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 5: like themes of loyalty and friendship or good sisterhood too, right,

536
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 5: these are some of them are single moms even so

537
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 5: you know, in probably bringing them all back together too

538
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 5: might have even sparked memories of things that maybe you know,

539
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 5: that had been long forgotten. Did you find any like

540
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 5: things that were different, like in things that they remembered

541
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 5: versus what was documented in the court documents?

542
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:02,159
Speaker 7: I would say it was yes, like so many inconsistency.

543
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 4: Oh really.

544
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 7: Yeah, no, I would say, I mean the incoans is yes, absolutely,

545
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 7: so much was was different. I mean, you know, the

546
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 7: case happened a long time ago, and a big central

547
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 7: question is the prosecutor. She always felt like my main

548
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 7: character one of these women was never telling her the

549
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 7: full story of everyone who was involved in all of

550
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 7: her entire involvement. She still she says that she did

551
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 7: say everything that she knew. But yeah, like I would say,

552
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 7: there are there are lots of everyone's memory is they

553
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 7: is at the time things were unclear and now things are.

554
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 7: You know, people's memories also changed stories without even meaning to, right,

555
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 7: Like I had a gagent who told me that he

556
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 7: was there when an arrest happened, and I know he

557
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 7: wasn't there from the court docs. But like I think,

558
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 7: you just put your It's weird how memory works, right,

559
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 7: Like I think.

560
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,479
Speaker 3: Absolutely listen, Lydia, we are so excited to hear the

561
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 3: rest of this unfold throughout the podcast. We wish you

562
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 3: the greatest, greatest success, and everyone make sure to listen

563
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 3: to the Chinatown Sting.

564
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 2: You can download it for free on the iHeartRadio app.

565
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 2: And thank you again Lydia for joining us. You'll have

566
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 2: to come back again and give us all the rest

567
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 2: of the scoop. So yeah, there's plenty to get to

568
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 2: you because it's talked back Tuesday. So without further ado,

569
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 2: let's go to a talk back.

570
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 10: In my opinion, with Luigi. I don't think he is

571
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,360
Speaker 10: a terrorist. I think he's someone.

572
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 11: Who is hurt. He lost his mother to.

573
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 10: The greediness of insurance companies, and he didn't know how

574
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 10: to deal with that, and I think with so much hurt,

575
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 10: he just lashed out.

576
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 4: So I don't think he is a terrorist.

577
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 10: I think he just had a really hard time dealing

578
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 10: with the loss of somebody to the greediness of insurance companies.

579
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 3: I think that's such an interesting talk back because in

580
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 3: this case, in particular in the luigiman Gione murder case

581
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 3: of the CEO Brian Thompson of United Healthcare, there was

582
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 3: so much misinformation, particularly around why would Luigi, why.

583
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 4: Would this man do it? What is the motive? Including

584
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 4: who's sick? Was he sick? Was anyone else sick?

585
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 3: His mother, to our knowledge, to public knowledge, is alive

586
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 3: and well and with us, and that was not it.

587
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 3: People did really wonder and pontificate about what insurance company

588
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 3: hurt him specifically, but none of that has really come

589
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 3: to bear, not yet, we haven't been to court. But

590
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 3: in any case, again, Luigi Maggione's mother is with us,

591
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 3: and you are correct, or at least a New York

592
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 3: judge agrees with you about the terrorism charge and can

593
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 3: you fill us in a little bit more on that body.

594
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

595
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 5: So today, in fact, a New York judge dismissed the

596
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 5: terrorism charges against Luigi Mandion in the killing of United

597
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 5: health Care CEO Brian Thompson, but the second degree murder

598
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 5: charge remains and Mangeon still faces a parallel federal case,

599
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 5: right that could still lead to the death penalty. So again,

600
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 5: Luigi Mangione, He's accused of fatally shooting United Healthcare CEO

601
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 5: Brian Thompson outside the Midtown Manhattan Hotel back in December

602
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 5: of twenty twenty four, in what the prosecutors describe as

603
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 5: a really calculated.

604
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 4: And motivated attack.

605
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 5: Mangione allegedly targeted Brian Thompson to make a political statement

606
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 5: of such and this is against the health insurance industry.

607
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 5: And now he faces both state and federal charges. But

608
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 5: those terrors and charges have been dropped to you know, specifically,

609
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 5: you know, like what our talkback was talking about. So

610
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 5: that is a timely talkback.

611
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 4: So we thank you for that.

612
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 2: And by the way, though he still could be charged

613
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 2: federally to death. Oh yeah, that's not a lot of

614
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 2: table in any way, not.

615
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 4: In any way.

616
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 3: And I mean, if if we're betting, I would put

617
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 3: five dollars on the fact that federally they will keep

618
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 3: the death penalty on the table.

619
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: And by the way, another example of a lone wolf again,

620
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 2: normal guy, upwardly mobile, very educated. Let's remember Luigi was

621
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 2: top of his class, valedictorian in high school, went on

622
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 2: to a beautiful Ivy League school, lots of potential, tons

623
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 2: of cousins and family who loved him dearly, and somehow

624
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 2: he went down a rabbit hole and couldn't get himself out.

625
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 2: Our understanding is that he did not even have the

626
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 2: healthcare coverage that he was so up against. So I

627
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 2: am curious why specifically that CEO and that particular insurance company.

628
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 3: I wonder if that will come to bear. I mean,

629
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 3: people have guessed all day. My guess is that United

630
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 3: Healthcare is the largest in the country. But listen, that's

631
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 3: my guess, which is as good as yours and the

632
00:31:58,240 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 3: other guys.

633
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 4: We actually have a caller. I believe it's Detective JA.

634
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 4: I am Detective Jay. How are you wonderful? How are happy?

635
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 4: Thank you?

636
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 9: I'm happy to be with you. I really appreciate you

637
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 9: speaking out about these cases and giving your points of view,

638
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 9: which is excellent.

639
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 4: Oh, Detective Ja, that is so love, Detective j.

640
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'rering ourselves up in the commercial for stumbling a

641
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 2: word or something.

642
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 4: So actually that's very well timed.

643
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: Thank you.

644
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 4: We'll take the compliment definitely great. What's your question?

645
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 9: Well, I've been listening in reference to the Charlie Kirk case,

646
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 9: the political assassinate a nation, and I have absolutely an

647
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 9: agreement with most everything you've been discussing. You were talking

648
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 9: a lot about the chat and the comments on the chat.

649
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 9: I just want to say that I believe and I

650
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 9: want to ask your opinions. Don't you believe though, that

651
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 9: the absolute evidence will come from the forensic part of

652
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 9: the case, which will be the recovery.

653
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 4: Of the weapon. Correct. That appears to be the case.

654
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 2: And by the way, there's a lot of evidence recovered

655
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 2: with that specific weapon. Right. So there's DNA on the trigger, right,

656
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 2: so when he pulled the trigger, he left his DNA there.

657
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 4: We also know that he left that in a towel.

658
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 2: There's that said screwdriver that was found on the roof

659
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 2: that allegedly maybe he used for the.

660
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 4: Scope the scope.

661
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 2: Listen to me with all the gun talk, and you know,

662
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 2: it seems as though there had been many clues along

663
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 2: the way, including these engraved you know, casings, and you know, it.

664
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 4: Stacked up pretty good.

665
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 2: I guess too, right, and a confession to multiple people,

666
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 2: and yeah, some grievances allegedly. I just thought it was

667
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 2: interesting too, curious your thoughts as a detective when he

668
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 2: was you know, family members were seeing him. Mom, his mom.

669
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 2: Can you imagine this nightmare? You're watching the news there's

670
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 2: a man hunt throughout the world at this point, and

671
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 2: you recognize it's your son. Suddenly you're like, wow, that

672
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 2: looks a lot like my son, Tyler. So mom calls dad,

673
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 2: says to dad, whoof trouble in Paradise? Does this look

674
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 2: like Tyler? Can't be yes, They both agree looks a

675
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 2: lot like him. He probably even has that shirt. And

676
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 2: then they involve the pastor and we know how this

677
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 2: story goes. Eventually that he's encouraged to turn himself in

678
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 2: that piece of this because people were reaching out to

679
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 2: Tyler real time saying, hey, this guy looks a lot

680
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 2: like you.

681
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 4: And his response to.

682
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 2: These messages where oh yeah, there's a doppel ganger, that's

683
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 2: out to get me. And you know, again, he must

684
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: have known that the walls are closing in so quickly.

685
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 2: It doesn't even seem like this try this guy was

686
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 2: trying to get away with it at all.

687
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 9: Right, Well, the first thing I thought when I started

688
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 9: seeing the images, just from knowing what images look like

689
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 9: when they come through like that, and thinking the FBI

690
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 9: was releasing these images, what's this is excellent, very very

691
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 9: good images of him. And you're correct. Any parent, anyone

692
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,280
Speaker 9: that knew him, would have known the shape of his face,

693
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 9: would have been able to know him with sunglasses on,

694
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 9: would have known, you know, what his body look like

695
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 9: is you know, all that was very concurrent. And also

696
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 9: what was very interesting is the type of weapon that

697
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,439
Speaker 9: it was. Believe it was a thirty out to six. Yeah,

698
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,879
Speaker 9: I've shot that exact weapon with a seven hundred yard

699
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 9: scope and it is extremely accurate. I said earlier in

700
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 9: the show about people being in danger, was absolutely right.

701
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 9: We're so lucky and blushed that there were not more

702
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 9: people that were harmed or worse, you know, and it's

703
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 9: terrible that there was anyone harmed. But he got a

704
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 9: two hundred yards shot off very accurately.

705
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 3: Wow, Well we're so yeah. First of all, you're so

706
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 3: impressive as a shooter. That's unbelievable. Are Detective Jay Literally

707
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 3: all three of our jaws.

708
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:33,320
Speaker 4: Dropped when you said that shot. Wow. But we're so

709
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 4: grateful you called.

710
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 3: Thank you so much and listen, we are with you

711
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 3: and agree, you know, or I'll speak for myself agree. Forensics, Yes,

712
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 3: they are there, God and Gospel and uh.

713
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 4: We look forward to following along.

714
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 5: I think that one thing though, to point out though,

715
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 5: I think that the forensic the digital forensics are going

716
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 5: to also be substantially important to show if there was

717
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 5: other people involved, right, Like, so when I'm talking about

718
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 5: like the message and things like that, I'm talking about

719
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 5: some kind of you know, group or coercion or even

720
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 5: accessory after the fact, that kind of stuff, and that

721
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 5: I think that will come out forensically digitally.

722
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 3: I think you're right, and Stephanie to your earlier, earlier

723
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 3: point of sort of embroiling people in by you know,

724
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 3: people who potentially we do not know who knew what when,

725
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 3: but you know, if in fact this suspect did tell

726
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 3: people what happened after the fact and then advise them

727
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 3: of what not to do that's already. Does that make

728
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 3: you an accessory after the fact, willing or not?

729
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 4: I can think it, imagine. I think it does.

730
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 2: Doesn't You got to turn the person in. Yeah, I

731
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,439
Speaker 2: think there are some really staunch rules about this. In fact,

732
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 2: we should have somebody on who's an expert in this,

733
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 2: because I always have found this interesting. If somebody confesses

734
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 2: to you, you have to turn them in, right, I

735
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 2: assume I don't know, Or does that make you a necessory?

736
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 4: I think it does.

737
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 5: I think that's why people get charged with accessory after

738
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 5: the fact, even if they unknowingly, like hey, I left

739
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 5: a towel under a bush at this university, right, and

740
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 5: they go and they move the towel. I think they

741
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 5: could be in not knowing that it's a towel that

742
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 5: held a gun. Let's say I think that they could

743
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,399
Speaker 5: be charged with accessory. I don't think it would stick.

744
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 4: I think that's a bummer of a rule. I would

745
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 4: get any towel any time of day.

746
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 2: Even as you're saying that as an example, I think

747
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 2: there is some distinction.

748
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 4: And by the way, states of state this would vary.

749
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 4: Oh sure, but there is a.

750
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 2: Distinction that if you are told or you think that

751
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 2: somebody in your immediate circle or a loved one has

752
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 2: committed a crime, but you do not like house them, You.

753
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,439
Speaker 4: Do not hide them, you do not like aid them

754
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 4: to escape or evade.

755
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,839
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're forced to speak up, I'm

756
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 2: not one hundred percent short, and I think that's a

757
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 2: really curious you.

758
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 5: Know, you mentioned that you mentioned the parents stuff, and

759
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 5: I wanted to kind of hint on this just a

760
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,919
Speaker 5: little bit. In the charging document and other documents, it's

761
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 5: mentioned that in the messages between Tyler and his roommate,

762
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 5: it's mentioned that he used his grandfather's rifle okay, and

763
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 5: that the dad was calling him while he was messaging

764
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 5: his roommate and he's like, my dad's calling. I'm not answering,

765
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 5: and he's going to want to know where the rifle

766
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 5: is because maybe he asked dad to get the rifle

767
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 5: for him, I don't know, or if he just went

768
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 5: to Grandpa specifically to get the rifle. I have no idea,

769
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 5: but he said in these charging documents, he said, I

770
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,399
Speaker 5: don't know how I'm going to explain how I lost

771
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 5: this rifle.

772
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 4: And it made me think of.

773
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,879
Speaker 5: When his family and I'm not picking on his parents,

774
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,359
Speaker 5: but when his family saw the photo, right, and then

775
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 5: the photo of the rifle that was released, wasn't there

776
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:52,399
Speaker 5: some sort of alarm bells going off?

777
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 2: Yes, you would have to assume, but I want to

778
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 2: think this about your child, right, That's probably not where

779
00:39:58,600 --> 00:39:59,919
Speaker 2: your brain immediately goes.

780
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 4: So you immediately must go into denial.

781
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 3: Well, and not just that my brain, you know, I'm

782
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 3: just gonna for this instance, say you know it's said

783
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 3: of my child, my sister, and oh she asked about this,

784
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 3: and that I would only think, oh, my goodness, my

785
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 3: sister is in proximity to some lunatic with the rifle.

786
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 3: Like my brain would not. That would not be the

787
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 3: next even to five steps ahead.

788
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 4: What if there was a picture of your sister on

789
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 4: you know, climbing stairs. It's tough.

790
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 3: I don't know, listen, it's gonna be it will I

791
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 3: have to imagine become clear who did, indeed know what when?

792
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 2: And I don't think his parents knew. Please don't take

793
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:41,959
Speaker 2: it the wrong way, No, no, no, no, I feel

794
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 2: for the parents. Son is pretty brutal, and you'd be

795
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 2: curious to know what that conversation between mom, dad, and Tyler,

796
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 2: they basically coerced him over to their home to speak

797
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 2: to the pastor from what I understand, and you know,

798
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 2: what was that conversation, Like, well, do you think about this?

799
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:00,800
Speaker 4: It's so intense.

800
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 5: In the conversation with his roommate, he said that he

801
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 5: had a neighbor that was like a deputy sheriff or something,

802
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 5: and I got the impression that he was going to

803
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 5: go to that neighbor and like turn himself in.

804
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 2: But then that was being concerned about getting found out

805
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 2: by mom and dad that he took grandpa's gun, Like

806
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 2: that's the least of your problems, Tyler. Yeah, I think

807
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 2: Grandpa is the least of your troubles. In this exact moment, I.

808
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 5: Think while he was texting his roommate, his dad was

809
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:29,919
Speaker 5: blowing his phone up, and I think during the course

810
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 5: of that conversation he kind of came to come to realize, like, oh,

811
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 5: Dad knows it's me, so I'm gonna turn myself in. Really,

812
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 5: you go through the charging document if you read these messages,

813
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 5: it's it feels that way to me at least, it's

814
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 5: almost like he's trying to get away with it at first,

815
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 5: and then as a conversation proceeds a little bit. He's

816
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:48,959
Speaker 5: at the end, he's like, I'm just gonna turn myself

817
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 5: in because dad is blowing him up.

818
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 4: And not what a waste. I mean, look where we are.

819
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 2: You know, kids being raised without their dad and now

820
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 2: you're behind bars for your whole life. Lives are all

821
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 2: ripped apart, they can't go to their jobs. I mean,

822
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 2: come on, you know, I think we have to do better,

823
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 2: and I think these are really important conversations. And again

824
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 2: I feel like I say this every night for the

825
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 2: last couple of nights. You know, it's not a shameless plug,

826
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 2: but we are just working on a project that really

827
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 2: is going deep into a lot of this stuff and

828
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 2: it's really been eye opening on so many levels. And

829
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 2: if you have a story or an idea or something

830
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 2: for us to be looking out for, to keep each

831
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 2: other safe, because it's the wild, wild West.

832
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 4: And you know, the web is a real place and

833
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:38,240
Speaker 4: it's hard to monitor.

834
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 3: So here we are, and you know, to piggyback on that, Stephanie,

835
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 3: on this project, I have had my eyes opened to

836
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 3: atrocities of words and images that I are almost incomprehensible.

837
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 3: And I don't overstate that, and we've been at this

838
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 3: for quite a long time, but this new project, there

839
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 3: are definitely actions of you know, the internet to sound

840
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 3: like a dinosaur that I was unfamiliar with, and it

841
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 3: is dangerous out there and.

842
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 2: It's hard to explain, so hard to explain. So yeah,

843
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 2: and thank you to Detective Jay for jumping.

844
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 4: In that little sharp shooter seven hundred.

845
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 2: That's a lot, so we're very impressed, and keep the

846
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 2: conversations coming because again it's Talkback Tuesday, and as a reminder,

847
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,800
Speaker 2: on Thursday, Amanda Knox will be with us live for

848
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 2: one full hour, so if you have questions for her,

849
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 2: we can start stacking those up as well, so please

850
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 2: jump in join the conversation.

851
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 4: In fact, that's good to We're talk back now.

852
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 12: When it comes to the Jeffrey Epstein case, first of all,

853
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 12: the entire case is disgusting. From his two thousand and

854
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 12: eight conviction for procuring in mind of a prostitution, serving

855
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 12: thirteen months in jail, some of these kids as young

856
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 12: as fourteen years old. All the court documents, all the subpoenas,

857
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 12: all the search warrants, including their findings, should be released

858
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 12: to the public. If the people on the alleged list

859
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 12: had nothing to do with the sex trafficking. They should

860
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 12: have nothing to worry about.

861
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:21,720
Speaker 4: Isn't that the choice?

862
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 7: Yeah?

863
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:24,720
Speaker 2: Really, I I mean it just like that just sums

864
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 2: it up so cleanly, right, And we know today was

865
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 2: actually a really big day because FBI Director Cash Pattel

866
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 2: says that there's really no more credible information to be shared,

867
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 2: and that you know, they've been extremely transparent and documents

868
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 2: have been released, and of course we know that there

869
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,280
Speaker 2: was some excerpts of Gilane Maxwell, his co conspirator, allegedly

870
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 2: in her recent interview with officials, which I find very

871
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 2: meaningless frankly because she's going to say anything to get

872
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 2: a pardon at this point. But in that conversation, we

873
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 2: know she she basically said that, you know, none of

874
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 2: the people that are circulating names, for example, our president

875
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,839
Speaker 2: or Bill Clinton or whomever. It all seemed pretty hunky dory,

876
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 2: and there wasn't anything there according to Gileen.

877
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 4: But look, it's not going away.

878
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 2: And it was pretty clear even today if you were

879
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 2: watching any of the House Oversight Committee, and you know,

880
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 2: they really did have Cash Betel in a pretty hot

881
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:25,919
Speaker 2: seat asking for a more transparency. In general, the entire

882
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 2: thing had moments, not just in the Epstein category. I mean, yes,

883
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 2: it was pretty emotional. It felt like on all sides,

884
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 2: and I think, listen, we're all in that same boat too.

885
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 2: It seems like it's in the air a little bit.

886
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 2: But look, people just want the information out. And the

887
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 2: only thing I would say that I really rub up

888
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 2: against is this constant, constant assertion that the reason why

889
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 2: these documents are not being released is to protect the victims.

890
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 4: And I'm like, I don't know. I just saw on

891
00:45:58,400 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 4: Capitol Hill.

892
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,360
Speaker 2: So many victims that are literally putting themselves on camera

893
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 2: at this point saying we want there to be full transparency.

894
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 2: And look, redacting documents is a very common thing, meaning

895
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 2: and if you don't know what that means, Essentially, if

896
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 2: you get court documents and there's specific names that you

897
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 2: don't want to be released to the public, it's almost

898
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 2: like a black sharpie is through those names and things

899
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 2: that are key identifiers, specifically when it comes to victims.

900
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:33,399
Speaker 2: And that's really important, right safety First, redact the names

901
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 2: in of the victims. That's not what everybody's hunting for.

902
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 2: We're not looking for more victims names, although there seems

903
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 2: to be thousands of them. What we're looking for are

904
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 2: the key people that may have been involved in this

905
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 2: sex trafficking scam, and why is that so complicated? By

906
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 2: the way, another big ticket item alex Acosta. You'll remember

907
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 2: alex Acosta, who was, you know, sort of the guy

908
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 2: in charge when and Jeffrey Epstein was originally charged with

909
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:08,800
Speaker 2: sex trafficking and he fled guilty to soliciting a miner.

910
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:10,399
Speaker 4: You know, we're talking sixteen years old.

911
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:12,320
Speaker 2: There was a fourteen year old in the mix, like

912
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 2: he pled guilty, and I think what gets under everybody's

913
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 2: collar is that he got a real sweetheart deal. You know,

914
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 2: he would go to work for twelve hours a day.

915
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 2: By the way, a predator and a pedophile convicted would

916
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 2: get to leave jail and go to work for twelve

917
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 2: hours a day, roam the earth and then go back

918
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 2: and catch a night's sleep and then go back again.

919
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 4: Who gets that deal? Well, good question.

920
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 2: So alex Acosta is up to bat, and I think

921
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 2: is going to be speaking again in front of the

922
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 2: House Committee on Friday of this week.

923
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 4: So it's not getting a lot of press.

924
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,399
Speaker 2: It seemed like today when this like banter was going

925
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 2: back and it happened with many people on both sides

926
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 2: of the aisle really asking Cash Ptel for more transparency,

927
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 2: and you know, he appointed backward and was like, look,

928
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 2: the previous you know crew, they weren't exactly handing those

929
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 2: documents over. And by the way, that's accurate, that's true,

930
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 2: be honest, couldn't be more true. But then before that

931
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 2: there was another regime and they weren't. Everybody knows about

932
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 2: these documents. It's like the best worst kept secret ever.

933
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 2: So it does seem like this is not a partisan

934
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 2: issue exactly. Every seems to be four years everyone's like, wow,

935
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 2: those files. And by the way, when Trump was running

936
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:33,399
Speaker 2: on getting these files out there, which was a big

937
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 2: platform and heading for cash Betel, he already had seen

938
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 2: them because he was president before. That's the part that

939
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 2: I get a little confused by. It wasn't like it

940
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 2: was secret to him. You know, he was already in office,

941
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 2: you know, previously, so he had accessed all this information.

942
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 2: It wasn't just in the previous administration. It was it

943
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:56,919
Speaker 2: seems like multiple administration people, So I don't know who's

944
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,799
Speaker 2: covering for who and into whatever for each other. It's

945
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 2: or something older or it's a bunch of nothing. And

946
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 2: if it's a bunch of nothing, hand out a bunch

947
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:07,800
Speaker 2: of nothing. But it seems like why it was a

948
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 2: lot of video. Why was he convicted? Why was he

949
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:12,760
Speaker 2: a waiting trial yet I was killed?

950
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 3: Why was he you know, suicide friend officially suicidely?

951
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 2: And why was she also convicted for twenty years Gillian Maxwell?

952
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 2: And why alex Acosta and I assume this will come

953
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 2: out on Friday. Why was he given a deal that

954
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 2: co conspirators could never be charged thereafter, which is what

955
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 2: she's trying to get out of jail for. She's saying, look,

956
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 2: there was a deal in place, no co conspirators could

957
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 2: see charges, so therefore this should apply to me, the

958
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 2: co conspirator.

959
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,879
Speaker 3: Well, she still also maintains her inno sense, so from

960
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 3: everything she says. But interesting, Speaking of Gillian Maxwell, did

961
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 3: you guys, I know there was so much stuff to

962
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:03,280
Speaker 3: watch today. Did you happen to catch Cash Battel losing

963
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 3: his mind when he was questioned by Adam Schiff?

964
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,840
Speaker 4: Please tell me, because I missed everything. It was like

965
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 4: a reality show.

966
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 3: So it was, yes, Yes, I was waiting for they

967
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 3: were engaged eighteen times, which.

968
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 4: Little dirty and messy.

969
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were like slurring at each other and like

970
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 2: taking some cheap shifts.

971
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 4: Really, yes, but I wat Adam Schiff was asking.

972
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,240
Speaker 3: And again this is after building and building, and Cash

973
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 3: Battel had been you know, in the hot seat for

974
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 3: a long time.

975
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 4: I honestly I think anyone would kind of lose their cool,

976
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 4: but boy did he.

977
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 3: And it had to do with Adam Schiff asking about

978
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 3: when Gilaine Maxwell was moved after she had you know

979
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 3: her talk I.

980
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 2: Guess her talk with Donald Trump's private attorney, right, Yeah,

981
00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 2: where she had said on the record that everybody.

982
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 4: Was cool and she didn't see any wrongdoing with any

983
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 4: of these big names. Everyone's a super gentleman.

984
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 3: And then after that nice chat, she then was moved

985
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 3: to you know, the far lower security level prison in

986
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 3: which she has no right to be given what she's

987
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 3: been convicted of. And yeah, Cash matel that really hit

988
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 3: some nerve. And he said something about, you know, it

989
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:27,320
Speaker 3: was only it was it was the it was the prisons.

990
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 3: I had nothing to do with it. I am not

991
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 3: paying attention to the tiny details of what's happening. And

992
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:37,959
Speaker 3: then Adam Schiff loft his mind, calling saying, you're calling

993
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 3: that a minor detail, and yeah, it's.

994
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 2: I mean to call a minor detail to somebody who's

995
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 2: been convicted of sex crimes against young women, grooming them,

996
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 2: luring them to an island. And regardless, again, whatever side

997
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,800
Speaker 2: of this year on, that is not a small ticket item.

998
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 2: And you know, the victims are watching this from a

999
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:00,919
Speaker 2: world stage, and I guess that's that's the most part

1000
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:04,280
Speaker 2: of this story that makes me the most, really upset

1001
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 2: to the core taking the story out of them and

1002
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 2: all the names and lists and put that all yucky aside.

1003
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 2: If you're a victim who's considering coming forward and you're

1004
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 2: gathering the courage that you've been the victim of a

1005
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 2: crime or sex abuse, of a crime of any kind,

1006
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 2: and you have to come forward and say, please help

1007
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 2: so and so did this to me?

1008
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 4: Why would anybody do that? You're just going to get

1009
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 4: raked through the coals.

1010
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 2: And the fear of women not coming forward is really

1011
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 2: scary to me. And you know, these women are putting

1012
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 2: themselves in harms way, they're going on camera putting themselves

1013
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,720
Speaker 2: in harms way. We know these are very powerful people.

1014
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 2: And then to hear it be so minimized at every corner.

1015
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 2: It's pretty brutal stuff. Yeah, it absolutely is.

1016
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 4: Well listen, thank you very much for the talk back.

1017
00:52:57,280 --> 00:52:59,359
Speaker 3: If you have anything you want to add or want

1018
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:01,879
Speaker 3: to join us live now, give us a call eighty

1019
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 3: eight three to one Crime. This is true crime tonight

1020
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 3: and we are in the middle of talkback Tuesday, which

1021
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,439
Speaker 3: is kind of any crime topic goes.

1022
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 4: So what is up next to? Aha?

1023
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 8: Hi ladies. Alexi from Fort Worth, Texas. Here, I'm referring

1024
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 8: to the BK Brankoberger situation. I'm wondering what if BKA

1025
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 8: only intended to kill Maddie and the other three were

1026
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 8: sort of out of necessity and unexpected. He may not

1027
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 8: have anticipated Kaylee being there since she had graduated and

1028
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 8: moved out, possibly not recognizing her new vehicle in the driveway.

1029
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 8: It would also explain the extent of the wounds she

1030
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 8: had that seemed to be more angry and aggressive. I

1031
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 8: think if it was just one victim, the case wouldn't

1032
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:43,800
Speaker 8: have made such a stir across the country, and the

1033
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 8: larger law enforcement organizations likely wouldn't have been involved. Then

1034
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 8: he could continue committing further murders, and I really think

1035
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 8: that was his goal. I don't think this was intended

1036
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 8: to be a one and done thing. This was his

1037
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,800
Speaker 8: trial run that didn't go as planned. Based on some

1038
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 8: of the reports, he seemed to idle more of the

1039
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 8: serial killer types like b BTK, not so much the

1040
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 8: mass murderers like Elliott Roger. Thanks y'all love the show.

1041
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 4: By the way, I that is my theory. That is

1042
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:12,440
Speaker 4: my working and it's a lot of she just nailed it.

1043
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 5: It's a lot of people's theory because Kaylee wasn't supposed

1044
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 5: to be there, right, She wasn't supposed to be there.

1045
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 5: She hadn't gotten a new car even right, so he

1046
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:23,279
Speaker 5: wouldn't have recognized her car, but he would have recognized

1047
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 5: that there were many.

1048
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:26,800
Speaker 4: Cars parked in the in the in the driveway of

1049
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 4: the house. There were so many cars, but.

1050
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 2: There were always so many cars, and that probably part

1051
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 2: of the thrill if this guy was you know, and

1052
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:36,879
Speaker 2: this is not a technical term, but it gets used

1053
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 2: technically air quotes, panty sniffer. You know, it's such a

1054
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 2: terrible word, it is, but you know, Joseph Scott Morgan

1055
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 2: says it a lot in the land of forensics because

1056
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 2: it is a tell and the idea being go with

1057
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 2: me here, that maybe he had struck prior sneaking into

1058
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:57,240
Speaker 2: people's houses, going through women's drawers, touching their lingerie, underwear, panties,

1059
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:01,840
Speaker 2: just so great medicine cabinets, going through medicine cabinet's, touching

1060
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:04,799
Speaker 2: things right in the fascination of being there, and then

1061
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 2: sneaking out. And if you know, this house has many cars,

1062
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 2: lots of activity, and if you're looking to maybe be

1063
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 2: sexually violent with Madison, for example, and you're not thinking

1064
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,399
Speaker 2: that this is unusual that there's so many cars, part

1065
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 2: of the thrill is like ooh, sneaking by all these

1066
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:26,360
Speaker 2: people and kind of going to the intended target.

1067
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 4: And and maybe it just went super sideways. I think,

1068
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 4: I listen, I think that's entirely possible.

1069
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 5: In fact, I've always opined that, you know, the reason

1070
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:38,279
Speaker 5: that Kaylee had so many extensive injuries is that she

1071
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 5: again was unexpected or interrupted in some way, and he

1072
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 5: took out his rage on her because he, you.

1073
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 4: Know, in his most intimate moment.

1074
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,880
Speaker 5: And I don't necessarily mean anything sexual, but you know,

1075
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 5: a stabbing is an intimate thing. You know, you're up

1076
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:57,800
Speaker 5: close and personal physically, yeah, physically, you know, and this

1077
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 5: is something that he had been maybe fantasizing about and

1078
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:05,880
Speaker 5: it going a certain way, right, and she interrupted this

1079
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:08,399
Speaker 5: and in whatever way, whether she was in the bed

1080
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:10,800
Speaker 5: or she came in the room, I don't know, but

1081
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 5: she interrupted it.

1082
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:15,400
Speaker 4: That's always been my thing. And then he leaves the

1083
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 4: He leaves.

1084
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 5: The room and he runs Intosana and it happens again, right,

1085
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:24,240
Speaker 5: it happens again again, but she flights back and again

1086
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 5: she's brutal, brutally attacked.

1087
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 4: You know, we know she was stabbed over fifty times.

1088
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 5: And you know, I definitely think that is something that

1089
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 5: that could have happened that he just went there for Eddie.

1090
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 2: I do I save one fun thing that speaking of

1091
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 2: the Gonzalvez family, as we're talking about Kayleie Gonzalvez, we

1092
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 2: just did a recent interview for the podcast with her brother,

1093
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 2: Stephen Gonzalvez, and on our documentary on Peacock, the Idaho

1094
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:55,759
Speaker 2: Student Murders, he appears on this as well, and he's

1095
00:56:55,880 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 2: talking to a local journalist named Olivia, and you know,

1096
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:02,840
Speaker 2: they have this like really nice scene together at the

1097
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 2: water and they became fast friends.

1098
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 4: And I like to think because of this shoot, they

1099
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 4: were brought together, and.

1100
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 2: Director Catherine Park was like an unknowing matchmaker.

1101
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 4: And those two kids are are getting married. They are

1102
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 4: I'm very really so love Akhrmon.

1103
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 5: He prevails and you know, listen the thing I think this,

1104
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 5: I think it's something to take away positive, right, like right,

1105
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:29,920
Speaker 5: If it hadn't been for this, I never would have met.

1106
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1107
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:33,960
Speaker 2: In in fact, Olivia, she was you know, doing like

1108
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 2: all kinds of like online TikTok kind of journalism at

1109
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 2: the time of the murders. And after the murders she

1110
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 2: realized that Kaylee Gonzalvez actually friended her and she didn't

1111
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 2: realize it though, So they became friends kind of after death,

1112
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 2: you know, if you want to look at silver Lining

1113
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 2: and then here is you know, they call him Gonzo affectionately,

1114
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 2: but you know, Stephen Gonzalvez Junior who's just lost his

1115
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 2: sister and Maddie was like a sister to him as well.

1116
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 2: You know, let them have that happiest life ever, and

1117
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 2: you have to believe that there's something above sort of yeah,

1118
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 2: bringing meat together.

1119
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 5: Maybe it was Kaylee all along, right, I believe guiding

1120
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 5: it to be because they do seem very sweet together.

1121
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 4: They are, and I seem very sweet together. Yeah, and

1122
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 4: deserve all the happiness in the world. Totally agree. Oh

1123
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 4: and more, that is great news.

1124
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 5: I know, you know, and I don't want to This

1125
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 5: isn't a glib comment. You know when I say if

1126
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 5: this didn't happen, they never would have, you know, hooked up.

1127
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 5: I don't mean that to sound trite or glib, but

1128
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 5: it's just trying to find some positivity in this course

1129
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 5: a fixed situation.

1130
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, So stay stay tuned. We're going to get to

1131
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 4: some more talkbacks.

1132
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 5: We're going to be responding more and messages and call

1133
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 5: us eight at eight thirty one Crime we want to

1134
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 5: hear from you.

1135
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 4: Keep it right here True Crime Tonight. We're talking true

1136
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 4: crime all the time.

1137
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 2: Well, welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're

1138
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 2: talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here

1139
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 2: with Courtney Armstrong and body move in and you guys,

1140
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 2: because it's Talkback Tuesday and you are allowed to sound

1141
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 2: off here. Also Friendly Reminder Thursday, Amanda Knox. I know

1142
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 2: we keep saying it, but it's a really big deal

1143
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 2: and I'm really looking forward to it me too.

1144
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 4: In a way I can't quite describe.

1145
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 5: So I watched the first documentary like a decade ago.

1146
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 5: I know, like, I'm so excited. Yes, I'm nervous though

1147
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:31,560
Speaker 5: a little bit. I'm a little nervous, but I'm excited

1148
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 5: me too.

1149
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 4: I'm excited as well.

1150
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 2: So again, if you have any questions that you want

1151
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 2: to share or ask directly, you can join us live

1152
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 2: that night or leave us a talkback prior.

1153
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 4: So here we are more talkbacks, talkbacks, talkbacks. Let's go

1154
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 4: to another good afternoon, ladies.

1155
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 11: This is Stephanie from Pennsylvania, con I just heard about.

1156
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 4: The allegedly allegedly allegedly T shirts and the mugs. I

1157
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 4: would definitely I would want one of those. It could

1158
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:05,320
Speaker 4: be true come true crime coffee and chill. That would

1159
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 4: I love that mug. Anyway, I just wanted to give

1160
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 4: my two cents. Excuse my congestion. I hope huge is

1161
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:15,720
Speaker 4: that voice.

1162
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 2: Stephanie has the best voice I know, doesn't sounds she

1163
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 2: sounds great?

1164
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:23,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, she sounds awesome. And yes we are.

1165
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 2: We are knee deep and making those making those T

1166
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:28,040
Speaker 2: shirts and those mugs come in.

1167
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 5: So yeah, we'll we'll figure out how to Like, I

1168
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 5: don't drink, I don't drink hot coffee.

1169
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:36,960
Speaker 4: So I need a tumbler, and I know that my

1170
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:38,640
Speaker 4: tumbler girls are out there.

1171
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 3: I don't drink hot coffee either. Stephanie has seen me

1172
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:43,840
Speaker 3: twelve months out of every single.

1173
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 2: Can I just let the record show. We got T

1174
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 2: shirts true Crime, you know, just like for the first days.

1175
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:50,760
Speaker 2: I was like, hey, we'll get hoodies.

1176
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 4: You didn't.

1177
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 2: We'll have true Crime Tonight T shirts. And I got

1178
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:57,360
Speaker 2: T shirts for everyone and I love them. We got

1179
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 2: sweatshirts and we got mugs and it was kind of

1180
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 2: a foul ball. It was sort of like what I

1181
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:08,040
Speaker 2: like a neck and I like this, the tumbler would

1182
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 2: be better. So we're going to do a very specific

1183
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 2: list of tumblers and mugs. No one's ever used their

1184
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:17,000
Speaker 2: mug and Courtney arms during You are right, I do

1185
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 2: know that you only like things cold and a huge

1186
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 2: like child drink a big gulp, like a big gulp

1187
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:27,320
Speaker 2: size coffee frankly all day, right, I'll milk it all day.

1188
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1189
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 2: But the ice is like completely wet. It's like watered

1190
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 2: down by three o'clock. It's just pure water with a

1191
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 2: little bit of brown in there. Still, But does the

1192
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 2: trick does the trick. So okay, so we have to

1193
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 2: reimagine the swag.

1194
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 4: It was a foul ball the first time it was.

1195
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:47,880
Speaker 4: I'm going to correct you, Stephanie. I have been using

1196
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 4: my mug. I enjoy it and I have hot coffee

1197
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:52,840
Speaker 4: author to prove it. Right now, who has it in

1198
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 4: their heads?

1199
01:01:56,240 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 2: I actually have pens in mine, so I shouldn't you know,

1200
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 2: pas in mind as well.

1201
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 4: But they're gonna they're gonna listen to all.

1202
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:08,920
Speaker 2: Start having cocktails. This should be a new version of

1203
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 2: this where you know, we're all huddled around a table.

1204
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:15,400
Speaker 2: It's like getting ready with me, It's like get unready

1205
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 2: with me, and we all start like just in Yeah,

1206
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:23,840
Speaker 2: the lashes are going away, the makeup is getting washed off,

1207
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:26,360
Speaker 2: and we're putting on our hoodies and her pjs in

1208
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 2: a side pony and.

1209
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 4: That's how it is.

1210
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 12: But everything else I'm like, And also, because it's an

1211
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 12: evening show, is there a way to incorporate like a

1212
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 12: wine glasses.

1213
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:46,919
Speaker 4: A little after hours goblets? Maybe there's something there we'll

1214
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:49,160
Speaker 4: think about that I can put ice and see in

1215
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 4: a goblet or something my sprites. I got contacts.

1216
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 2: I'm starting to wear contact lenses and I think I

1217
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:58,160
Speaker 2: have one stuck in my eye. I don't know how

1218
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:00,440
Speaker 2: to get it out. There's a doctor who could you

1219
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 2: need to call in? No, no, no, it's not so

1220
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:04,360
Speaker 2: is it up in your eyelid?

1221
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:07,160
Speaker 4: No, I don't know. It's like a foul ball user error.

1222
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:09,560
Speaker 4: Oh I don't know. But I'm like half seeing you

1223
01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 4: guys right now, so bear with me. Oh look great.

1224
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:15,120
Speaker 4: By the way, as always, it's because you're blind. I

1225
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:17,400
Speaker 4: was gonna say it's a blurry vision. It's like those

1226
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:23,640
Speaker 4: treated lenses. I can't see you look great exactly. Thanks.

1227
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 4: I appreciate it.

1228
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 2: Talk that talk that you guys are all very dressed

1229
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 2: up tonight and look beautiful. So it's uh more of this,

1230
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:35,360
Speaker 2: Succumbent's go to a talk back here.

1231
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 4: I'm just now able to listen to Sunday Nights podcast.

1232
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 13: By the way, I love Joseph's voice, but he just

1233
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 13: basically came up with a great little logo for one

1234
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 13: of your t shirts, The Truth and Science will set

1235
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 13: you Free.

1236
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:53,480
Speaker 4: Oh you love it that truth? Ah?

1237
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:53,720
Speaker 9: Men?

1238
01:03:54,520 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 4: I like men. Don't tell Joseph though, because we want

1239
01:03:57,080 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 4: the royalties. Don't give me. No.

1240
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 2: I love that actually, truth and science and it's the

1241
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:04,440
Speaker 2: truth of it, right, that's the fine line that we're

1242
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:07,280
Speaker 2: all sort of looking for, Like what is the truth?

1243
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 2: So you know, science doesn't lie. We learned this from him,

1244
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:12,560
Speaker 2: and I find that so comforting.

1245
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:15,080
Speaker 4: I always feel better after talking to him.

1246
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:17,760
Speaker 5: He does make it comforting, right, like because this is

1247
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 5: graphic stuff, right, this is graphic stuff. And he does

1248
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:23,920
Speaker 5: have a way about him of explaining things, but not

1249
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 5: like in a gross way, you know, like we're a

1250
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 5: really gratuitous gratuitous That was the word I was looking for.

1251
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:32,560
Speaker 4: See, thank you. I need Courtney more around it to

1252
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:34,600
Speaker 4: the word of the days, so that I have a

1253
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 4: better lexicon.

1254
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 3: Need a better breaking him out right now from you party,

1255
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 3: by the way, the you know the truth and science

1256
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:49,400
Speaker 3: will set you free. A couldn't agree more but be

1257
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 3: in watching Amanda Knox's new new movie SERI.

1258
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:57,120
Speaker 4: What are we calling it? Is a movie series? I

1259
01:04:57,160 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 4: think it's a script series. Drama. Yeah, watching this drama

1260
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:03,480
Speaker 4: which is so amazing.

1261
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 3: The truth for those of you who are watching along,

1262
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 3: which is hopefully everybody, the truth is a really big

1263
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:14,520
Speaker 3: part of it and it makes you think all lot and.

1264
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:18,560
Speaker 2: Sometimes the truth isn't a straight line, right, it is

1265
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:22,840
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, and it's really easy to jump to conclusions,

1266
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:26,280
Speaker 2: and you know that's a really dangerous place and I think,

1267
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:28,440
Speaker 2: you know, that's what this whole community is about, where

1268
01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 2: we're all about. You know, jumping to conclusions is never

1269
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 2: the answer, and there are right now, exactly exactly right

1270
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:41,120
Speaker 2: in real time like actively. So we have our you know,

1271
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:44,080
Speaker 2: hang out, and tomorrow is a big night too, because

1272
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 2: we'll be discussing the Amanda Knox Show and her scripted series,

1273
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:51,600
Speaker 2: and if you want to watch the documentary, obviously do

1274
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 2: that as well. The more Amanda Knox the better in

1275
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 2: preparation for Thursday.

1276
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 4: That's right, let's do.

1277
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:02,560
Speaker 11: Hey, ladies, it's Heather from Wisconsin. I know you guys

1278
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:07,080
Speaker 11: were discussing the Unknown Caller documentary. I just want to

1279
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:11,080
Speaker 11: say that A that lady is diabolical and crazy bananas,

1280
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:15,960
Speaker 11: but I just felt and the documentary was brilliantly done,

1281
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:19,919
Speaker 11: but I just felt a little uncomfortable watching. I felt

1282
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 11: like they should have called the father home before they

1283
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:26,200
Speaker 11: told the daughter. Just wondering what Europeans are Also, why

1284
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:31,520
Speaker 11: was she never charged with any sex crimes towards children?

1285
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:41,280
Speaker 11: She was messaging the most deplorable obscure, insane, criminal things

1286
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 11: to children. One of them made her own daughter, but

1287
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:47,000
Speaker 11: Owen was not her own daughter. Why was she not

1288
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:48,160
Speaker 11: charged with sex crimes?

1289
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 4: Great question, This.

1290
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:52,680
Speaker 5: Is the first thing I asked by this question if

1291
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 5: I could boycott. That's why I was so enraged by it.

1292
01:06:56,240 --> 01:06:58,560
Speaker 5: Regardless of whether it was good or bad, it was entertaining.

1293
01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:01,800
Speaker 5: But she was such a scary person to me. And

1294
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:04,920
Speaker 5: why in the Lord's name is she allowed to be

1295
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:07,680
Speaker 5: on a documentary and is not behind bars for sending

1296
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:11,800
Speaker 5: the most creepy, disgusting graphic text messages for like months,

1297
01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:13,080
Speaker 5: eighteen months or something.

1298
01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:17,280
Speaker 4: It was brogus she was. If I was Owen's mother, huh.

1299
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:23,640
Speaker 3: Mass, Yes, this mother was so rancid and everything else

1300
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 3: you said. I mean, there was one investigator who said,

1301
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 3: you know, make a fifty three year old man blush.

1302
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:32,440
Speaker 4: It was the stuff. It was unconscionable that she was sending,

1303
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:33,480
Speaker 4: and especially.

1304
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:37,560
Speaker 2: To you know, a fourteen years eeen years old, Yeah,

1305
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:38,520
Speaker 2: fourteen years old.

1306
01:07:38,520 --> 01:07:40,880
Speaker 4: And this went on for years, So that to me

1307
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:42,240
Speaker 4: is a criminal act.

1308
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 2: And I also would have felt better knowing that she

1309
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:49,000
Speaker 2: was getting some care, you know, the poor daughter watching

1310
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:53,240
Speaker 2: her mom like with authorities and dad seeing it all

1311
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 2: real time. Yeah, I do think that was sort of

1312
01:07:55,760 --> 01:08:01,520
Speaker 2: handled indelicately for poor little Lawren's you know, well being.

1313
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:04,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was really the dad should have been called first.

1314
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:05,720
Speaker 4: I OK. I agree that.

1315
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:12,440
Speaker 3: Local investigator and listen, it's maybe unkind to pass judgment. However,

1316
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:15,840
Speaker 3: he did not seem like the brightest bulb just period

1317
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:16,160
Speaker 3: the end.

1318
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:16,679
Speaker 4: He didn't.

1319
01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:19,920
Speaker 3: And I know that the investigative stuff that the FBI

1320
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:22,480
Speaker 3: came in with there, you know, all of the instrumentation,

1321
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:27,280
Speaker 3: everything they had was far greater. So that is not

1322
01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:31,479
Speaker 3: the expectation to you know, have had those capabilities because

1323
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:35,960
Speaker 3: him and his department did not. However, when other parents

1324
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:39,439
Speaker 3: came forward and said that that detective who were referring to,

1325
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:43,320
Speaker 3: who made the choice to indeed go to the mother

1326
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:45,840
Speaker 3: who was about to be arrested and then in his

1327
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:48,320
Speaker 3: mind think he got a confession when he did not,

1328
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:51,200
Speaker 3: and to do it in front of the daughter and

1329
01:08:51,320 --> 01:08:54,719
Speaker 3: to then call the father, I mean, it was missed.

1330
01:08:55,360 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 2: I was missed, missed a bottlement. There's two moments that

1331
01:08:58,360 --> 01:09:01,719
Speaker 2: stick with me. When, of course, little Lauren was seeing

1332
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:05,040
Speaker 2: her creepy mom hanging on her while the cops are like, yeh,

1333
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:07,320
Speaker 2: by the way, it's your mom and she's like hugging

1334
01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 2: on her and like Laurence and Lawa's just sitting there

1335
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:15,559
Speaker 2: like she's frozen, like disassociating real time is what we're seeing.

1336
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:18,200
Speaker 2: And that image kind of stuck with me and made

1337
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:21,560
Speaker 2: me very angry. It's almost like when Gabby Patito was

1338
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:26,040
Speaker 2: on body cam asking for that moment when she was like,

1339
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:28,559
Speaker 2: I just want my mom, Like, oh I think about

1340
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 2: that moment with Gabby Patito and her mom more than

1341
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:35,320
Speaker 2: I should. It like haunts me, like I hate that

1342
01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 2: that footage exists. And she had that paralyzed, such a

1343
01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 2: scared look and little Lauren, you know, with creepy mom

1344
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:46,760
Speaker 2: hanging on her like it's okay, consoling her again, you

1345
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:47,960
Speaker 2: know when she's the problem.

1346
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:51,479
Speaker 5: Made me so mad and then she tried to be

1347
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:54,920
Speaker 5: like it wasn't me at the beginning. Oh, come on, no,

1348
01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 5: she had no accountability. Also, looking at the super gym,

1349
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:01,920
Speaker 5: it's like having Chad day Bell yesterday with letters is

1350
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:02,760
Speaker 5: the accountability.

1351
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:04,840
Speaker 4: Even mom was like, well everybody does bad things.

1352
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:08,280
Speaker 2: No, no, most people are not doing these bad things

1353
01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:10,800
Speaker 2: to your daughter into her your daughter's fourteen year old

1354
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:12,240
Speaker 2: boyfriend weirdo not.

1355
01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 4: His new girlfriend by the way, Yes, no, hard no.

1356
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:18,200
Speaker 2: And she was still going to the like his games

1357
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:20,880
Speaker 2: and stuff after they broke up, like also a bit

1358
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:21,439
Speaker 2: of a weirdo.

1359
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:25,480
Speaker 3: I don't know, I did, no, and framing other teenagers

1360
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:29,160
Speaker 3: to ruin several years of what should be the most

1361
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 3: social of their lives.

1362
01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:34,439
Speaker 5: You're absolutely right, like villainized her. That one girl with

1363
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:36,840
Speaker 5: the dark hair. I can't remember her name now, but

1364
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:41,439
Speaker 5: oh yeah, her dad was like Chloe was beautiful, beautiful,

1365
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:43,639
Speaker 5: her mom was a boss.

1366
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 3: And I think she was the one who called. And

1367
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:50,639
Speaker 3: I'm sorry that that investigator. He seemed like an idiot.

1368
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:52,960
Speaker 3: He seemed like an idiot. And I have to say

1369
01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 3: the there is a shot of him, and I think

1370
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:59,080
Speaker 3: that the documentary this is my perception, not reality, that

1371
01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:01,760
Speaker 3: the documentary giving a nod to that fact. When they

1372
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:04,400
Speaker 3: had a shot of him putting on his hat and he's.

1373
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 4: Like what should I do? Now?

1374
01:11:06,479 --> 01:11:06,960
Speaker 9: Do you know what?

1375
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:09,240
Speaker 4: It was a real small moment, like put your hat on,

1376
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:12,160
Speaker 4: that's what you should do. And I know he was

1377
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:13,920
Speaker 4: like do do do do do? Like there's a new

1378
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:14,840
Speaker 4: sheriff in town.

1379
01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:16,960
Speaker 14: I was curious it might be the same person you're

1380
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:18,000
Speaker 14: talking about, Courtney.

1381
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:20,680
Speaker 4: But when he what it was like, I don't know.

1382
01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:23,639
Speaker 14: There were sixteen or seventeen months into, like way into

1383
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:26,519
Speaker 14: this investigation, and then he has the idea to start

1384
01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:28,960
Speaker 14: running the numbers with I forgot exactly what it was

1385
01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:29,439
Speaker 14: he did, but.

1386
01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:33,080
Speaker 4: It's like, I know it starts nine.

1387
01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:33,639
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1388
01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 2: By the way, there's three hundred people in this beautiful

1389
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:38,080
Speaker 2: town called Beale, Michigan.

1390
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:39,559
Speaker 4: They could have gone door to door.

1391
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:41,720
Speaker 2: Honestly, if you had gone to every house that it

1392
01:11:41,760 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 2: would taken you a week and a half. We would

1393
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:46,040
Speaker 2: have got We would have cased that place five times over.

1394
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:50,759
Speaker 2: We would have we would have had this handled fastening

1395
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:52,880
Speaker 2: time and fast. And I also would have liked to

1396
01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:54,760
Speaker 2: have learned more. I mean, we can do it on

1397
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:59,519
Speaker 2: the show instead. Munchausen is like no one in the park, right,

1398
01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:03,000
Speaker 2: So we know about Munchausen's biproxy of course from Gypsy Rose.

1399
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:08,040
Speaker 2: Her mother also you know, suffered from this illness where

1400
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:11,880
Speaker 2: you basically as a caregiver, put pain on the person

1401
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:14,800
Speaker 2: you're giving care too. Typically it's a child, typically a

1402
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:17,360
Speaker 2: daughter even and then you get all the accolades.

1403
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:18,720
Speaker 4: I would have liked to have.

1404
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:23,800
Speaker 2: Learned more about this idea with Munchausen's online and maybe

1405
01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:26,640
Speaker 2: hear from a therapist about things that we should be

1406
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 2: looking out for and how this sort of stuff kind

1407
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:31,720
Speaker 2: of starts to brew. Not to hear Kendra give me

1408
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:34,160
Speaker 2: her unaccountable answer about.

1409
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:36,600
Speaker 4: How ridiculous is that bad? Yes? It was, Kendra, it

1410
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:40,439
Speaker 4: was very bad. Bars, it was very bad.

1411
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:42,960
Speaker 2: I have to assume you were raised better than this, Candra,

1412
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:44,960
Speaker 2: you were an adult woman.

1413
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:47,360
Speaker 5: But I feel like he would further than that, because

1414
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:49,920
Speaker 5: she contacted Owen's new girlfriend.

1415
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:53,040
Speaker 4: She was like obsessed with him or some of course

1416
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:53,320
Speaker 4: she was.

1417
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:56,320
Speaker 5: We discussed like a pedophile would be like why why

1418
01:12:56,600 --> 01:13:00,000
Speaker 5: into our tech talk back, like she's right, why didn't

1419
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:03,799
Speaker 5: she gets some sort of charges against her in regards

1420
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:07,400
Speaker 5: to that, like she was sending disgusting sexual messages to

1421
01:13:07,880 --> 01:13:11,240
Speaker 5: both of these teenagers. I guess yeah, I feel like

1422
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:14,880
Speaker 5: I've gotten in that poor cousin. I felt so bad,

1423
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 5: my cousin.

1424
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:19,479
Speaker 2: I've gotten into heated conversations and everyone's like, why is

1425
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:20,639
Speaker 2: Kendron not behind bars?

1426
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:22,920
Speaker 4: And I was like, maybe she still can be. Maybe

1427
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 4: this is like a backlash. I don't know, but I

1428
01:13:26,320 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 4: didn't like the doc for that reason.

1429
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:30,680
Speaker 5: I don't know how they got her to be in

1430
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 5: this documentary. There would literally be a shape of body

1431
01:13:34,240 --> 01:13:36,680
Speaker 5: Moven's body through the wall, like the kool Aid man

1432
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:40,160
Speaker 5: trying to get the Like I would not show my

1433
01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:43,120
Speaker 5: face to the public ever. I would be so mortified,

1434
01:13:44,040 --> 01:13:44,559
Speaker 5: you know what I mean?

1435
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:48,519
Speaker 2: I know, instead, Kendra's doing hero shots at the school,

1436
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:50,400
Speaker 2: like in the wind, like.

1437
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 4: On the phone. The phone, she was like shooting, like

1438
01:13:56,200 --> 01:13:57,400
Speaker 4: she was doing like a little play.

1439
01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:02,000
Speaker 2: I was like, Kendra's actually start here. So I would

1440
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:05,720
Speaker 2: say that maybe charges can still be humming. And I

1441
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:07,600
Speaker 2: think we should do kind of a deeper dive on

1442
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:14,120
Speaker 2: Munchausen's by proxy and certainly the Munchausen's by proxy online factor,

1443
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:18,280
Speaker 2: given that we're so deep down this radicalization hole, I think.

1444
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:18,720
Speaker 4: That would be good.

1445
01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:21,000
Speaker 5: I do, well, stay around, We're going to get to

1446
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:23,120
Speaker 5: some more talkbacks coming up, and give us a call

1447
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:24,760
Speaker 5: eight to eight thirty one, crying we want to hear

1448
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:26,880
Speaker 5: from you. Is your night to keep it right here

1449
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:29,559
Speaker 5: at True Grin tonight we're talking true crime all the time.

1450
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:41,719
Speaker 4: You know, without further ado, let's do it another talkback.

1451
01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:44,760
Speaker 3: Can I hop in with a DM Are you guys,

1452
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:48,560
Speaker 3: cool with that, Oh, because I'll be honest. Yeah, this

1453
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:51,920
Speaker 3: is from Michelle. Michelle writes this DM. I'm not sure

1454
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:54,759
Speaker 3: if it is in three parts or three separate ones.

1455
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:57,280
Speaker 3: But I want to answer Michelle because I like to

1456
01:14:57,320 --> 01:15:01,719
Speaker 3: write things down as well. Okay, so put your mind

1457
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:05,880
Speaker 3: in the what happened with the Idaho students and accused

1458
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:11,360
Speaker 3: murderer Brian Coburger? Okay, the ideas that Brian Coberger had

1459
01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:13,800
Speaker 3: were they in a box in a glove in his

1460
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:16,160
Speaker 3: apartment or were they in his glove box in his car?

1461
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:19,200
Speaker 4: They were in a glove in a box at his

1462
01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:20,560
Speaker 4: house in Pennsylvania.

1463
01:15:21,080 --> 01:15:23,800
Speaker 2: Correct, So they weren't in the car. A lot of

1464
01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:25,800
Speaker 2: people say they were in the glovebox. Good question, by

1465
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:27,599
Speaker 2: the way, that was a great, really good question.

1466
01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:32,120
Speaker 5: So we learned through Kevin Fixler from the Idaho Statesman,

1467
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:36,360
Speaker 5: who did an interview with Bill Thompson, and he said

1468
01:15:36,439 --> 01:15:41,000
Speaker 5: that the IDs belonged to fellow employee or peers of

1469
01:15:41,080 --> 01:15:43,360
Speaker 5: Brian Coberger when he worked at the school district as

1470
01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:46,840
Speaker 5: a security guard. They were other security guards, They were women,

1471
01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:51,080
Speaker 5: and they were IDs. We don't know what kind of ideas.

1472
01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:53,040
Speaker 5: I don't know if they were like work IDs or

1473
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:56,960
Speaker 5: like you know, driver's licenses or whatnot. But they belonged

1474
01:15:57,000 --> 01:15:59,679
Speaker 5: to two women that he worked with, and the women

1475
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:03,839
Speaker 5: two women were surprised. They were surprised that Brian Coberger

1476
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:07,000
Speaker 5: had their ideas. So I don't know if he broke

1477
01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:10,519
Speaker 5: into their locker at work or he broke into their house. Right,

1478
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:13,240
Speaker 5: but this goes back to what Stephanie was talking about

1479
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:15,160
Speaker 5: when we were talking about like the panty sniffer kind

1480
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:15,639
Speaker 5: of situation.

1481
01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:15,880
Speaker 9: Right.

1482
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:20,240
Speaker 5: We learned from James patterson book that he was breaking

1483
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:23,080
Speaker 5: into his friends' homes to steal things.

1484
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:24,960
Speaker 4: So he was committing.

1485
01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:28,439
Speaker 5: Burglary at a in a pretty young age. And by young,

1486
01:16:28,479 --> 01:16:30,959
Speaker 5: I mean you know, early twenties or And he also.

1487
01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:32,920
Speaker 2: Had he had an incident too with one of his

1488
01:16:33,040 --> 01:16:37,320
Speaker 2: sisters where he stole he stole her cell phone and

1489
01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:41,320
Speaker 2: then dad was so upset about it that he brought

1490
01:16:41,479 --> 01:16:44,640
Speaker 2: charges on it and that was on record, and then

1491
01:16:44,720 --> 01:16:47,320
Speaker 2: that kind of went away. But you know, maybe that

1492
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:50,320
Speaker 2: was an early red flag. Right, It's a small thing

1493
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:52,160
Speaker 2: in retrospect.

1494
01:16:51,680 --> 01:16:53,879
Speaker 5: Well if you timeline it and look at the crimes

1495
01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:58,479
Speaker 5: and is escalating, right, he steals the phone, he's stealing stuff,

1496
01:16:58,520 --> 01:17:01,120
Speaker 5: from his parents or his friends parents in their homes.

1497
01:17:01,680 --> 01:17:04,760
Speaker 5: He's sealing IDs from women he works with. And then

1498
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:09,160
Speaker 5: he goes to school and he's really interested in sexual robbery, burglary,

1499
01:17:09,240 --> 01:17:11,840
Speaker 5: sexual burglary. This is what he wants to like study,

1500
01:17:12,040 --> 01:17:14,840
Speaker 5: and like he's his fascination is with this. And then

1501
01:17:15,240 --> 01:17:17,240
Speaker 5: you know, is it possible that he was breaking into

1502
01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:20,600
Speaker 5: the girls the home in in Moscow to commit some

1503
01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:24,720
Speaker 5: sort of sexual burglary. Everything's just continually escalating. But your

1504
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:28,920
Speaker 5: to your your question, Yes, they were uh, they were

1505
01:17:29,000 --> 01:17:32,519
Speaker 5: IDs found in a glove in a box at his

1506
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:33,440
Speaker 5: home in Pennsylvania.

1507
01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:38,439
Speaker 4: All right, Michelle, one down, number two of three.

1508
01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:41,639
Speaker 3: So at the time, she writes, they made it sound

1509
01:17:41,720 --> 01:17:43,600
Speaker 3: like the security guard at w as you.

1510
01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:48,400
Speaker 4: Happened upon fbk's car and called it in.

1511
01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:52,559
Speaker 3: Now that we know his reputation there, meaning at the school,

1512
01:17:53,080 --> 01:17:55,080
Speaker 3: how much of a coincidence was it?

1513
01:17:55,280 --> 01:17:58,160
Speaker 4: Really? That's a good question.

1514
01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:02,479
Speaker 3: I'm I'm actually gonna my two cents is that it

1515
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:09,800
Speaker 3: was a university that it was a coincidence, because it

1516
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:12,800
Speaker 3: could be it's so siloed in academia that I doubt

1517
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:16,240
Speaker 3: the security guards were aware of what you.

1518
01:18:16,280 --> 01:18:17,240
Speaker 4: Know was happening.

1519
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:21,479
Speaker 3: In the criminology department versus the history department. It just

1520
01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:24,240
Speaker 3: tends to say that, you know, that's that's my guess,

1521
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:26,080
Speaker 3: I think. But they did know they were going to

1522
01:18:26,160 --> 01:18:28,640
Speaker 3: White Alantra, so they I.

1523
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:30,439
Speaker 4: Think you're right, Corney. I think it was a coincidence.

1524
01:18:30,439 --> 01:18:33,160
Speaker 5: I don't think the security or the campus police really

1525
01:18:33,640 --> 01:18:37,040
Speaker 5: had too much knowledge about Brian Koberger. And you know,

1526
01:18:37,439 --> 01:18:40,080
Speaker 5: they had just done the bolo for the white Hundai, right,

1527
01:18:40,280 --> 01:18:43,720
Speaker 5: so it all lines up. So I don't think it

1528
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:47,519
Speaker 5: was anything that anything suspicious there. I think I think

1529
01:18:47,560 --> 01:18:48,360
Speaker 5: it's just a coincidence.

1530
01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:51,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, any two cents on that, Stephanie. I think it

1531
01:18:51,920 --> 01:18:55,679
Speaker 4: was just a coincidence as well. Yeah, okay, all right, Michelle,

1532
01:18:56,160 --> 01:18:59,360
Speaker 4: you're upper three, she says. Last thing. Lol.

1533
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:04,519
Speaker 3: So why is that this guy gets pulled over so often?

1534
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:07,760
Speaker 3: So much footage of him getting pulled over for silly offenses?

1535
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:08,240
Speaker 5: Odd?

1536
01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:12,120
Speaker 4: The guy had garbage luck.

1537
01:19:12,760 --> 01:19:13,439
Speaker 1: I mean it.

1538
01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:17,400
Speaker 3: You know, it has been borne out by all of

1539
01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:21,800
Speaker 3: the different law enforcement offices that were involved that it

1540
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:25,320
Speaker 3: wasn't They did not know that it was just bad luck.

1541
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:28,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's astonishing, by the way, And honestly, if you

1542
01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:32,120
Speaker 2: do not believe in divine timing. I mean, I think

1543
01:19:32,200 --> 01:19:37,360
Speaker 2: it points to a higher purpose, and somebody above was

1544
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:40,840
Speaker 2: making sure that there were stops along the.

1545
01:19:40,840 --> 01:19:42,599
Speaker 4: Way, red flag, red flag.

1546
01:19:42,680 --> 01:19:45,960
Speaker 2: Who gets stopped that often in two separate locations by

1547
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:50,160
Speaker 2: two separate law enforcement agencies nine minutes apart, nine minutes apart,

1548
01:19:50,280 --> 01:19:52,920
Speaker 2: and without cracking Right now, Dad's in the car too.

1549
01:19:53,360 --> 01:19:56,439
Speaker 2: We're not totally sure if Dad was having a sick

1550
01:19:56,520 --> 01:19:59,759
Speaker 2: feeling about it or he was completely oblivious. Let's assume

1551
01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:04,519
Speaker 2: the ladder and kept us cool. Brian kept us cool twice,

1552
01:20:05,240 --> 01:20:08,439
Speaker 2: I would have been losing my mind. And yeah, I

1553
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:09,160
Speaker 2: think that's God.

1554
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:12,879
Speaker 4: Yeah. Maybe, yeah, but really good, really good questions.

1555
01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:15,640
Speaker 5: Thank you for those. This is True Crime Tonight and iHeartRadio.

1556
01:20:15,640 --> 01:20:17,760
Speaker 5: We're talking true crime all the time. I'm here with

1557
01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:20,840
Speaker 5: Steph and Courtney and we're taking your talk back. So

1558
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:22,040
Speaker 5: let's uh, let's go to one now.

1559
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:26,599
Speaker 6: Hi, True Crime Tonight. This is Lily from Chicago. I've

1560
01:20:26,600 --> 01:20:29,280
Speaker 6: been thinking a lot about like the Tyler Robinson thing,

1561
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:31,160
Speaker 6: and I don't know, I feel like people are just

1562
01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:33,479
Speaker 6: so caught up in the idea of like is he

1563
01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:34,080
Speaker 6: a leftist?

1564
01:20:34,280 --> 01:20:35,000
Speaker 15: Is he on the right?

1565
01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:37,479
Speaker 6: And I think people are just feeling to realize that

1566
01:20:37,640 --> 01:20:40,720
Speaker 6: all of the stems from him being chronically online and

1567
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:41,879
Speaker 6: detached from reality.

1568
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:45,360
Speaker 4: Okay, so listen, Lily in Chicago.

1569
01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:48,080
Speaker 5: I don't know if you're like in my head or

1570
01:20:48,360 --> 01:20:49,800
Speaker 5: or what's going on, or if you listen to the

1571
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:51,439
Speaker 5: show a couple of nights ago when I said that,

1572
01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:52,439
Speaker 5: but yeah, I agree.

1573
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:54,479
Speaker 4: I think that I think we're going to find that

1574
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:56,360
Speaker 4: this guy had a blend.

1575
01:20:56,240 --> 01:21:02,080
Speaker 5: Of beliefs in you know, being having political beliefs doesn't

1576
01:21:02,080 --> 01:21:03,600
Speaker 5: necessarily mean you're on the right or the left. You

1577
01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:05,720
Speaker 5: could have a you could have a mix from both right,

1578
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:07,920
Speaker 5: you don't have to be on one side. I think

1579
01:21:08,439 --> 01:21:11,439
Speaker 5: most of America, and you know, maybe I'm speaking on

1580
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:13,439
Speaker 5: a line here, but I think most of America kind

1581
01:21:13,479 --> 01:21:17,519
Speaker 5: of is in the center right, and and it's just

1582
01:21:17,600 --> 01:21:20,519
Speaker 5: these these extreme rights and these extreme lefts that are

1583
01:21:20,560 --> 01:21:24,320
Speaker 5: just all the time right, and I think most people

1584
01:21:24,520 --> 01:21:28,439
Speaker 5: just kind of live their life. And you know, being

1585
01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:31,800
Speaker 5: where he lived, you know, he lived in a very

1586
01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:35,760
Speaker 5: conservative state, right, He was raised in a very conservative household.

1587
01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:40,800
Speaker 5: They were a very happy gun family. But he's also

1588
01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:45,080
Speaker 5: you know, a kid in college, right, So yeah, I

1589
01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:47,240
Speaker 5: think that I think he was just chronically online and

1590
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:48,840
Speaker 5: I think I said that. I think I said he

1591
01:21:48,920 --> 01:21:50,200
Speaker 5: was chronically on. I think we're going to find he

1592
01:21:50,240 --> 01:21:52,320
Speaker 5: was chronically online. And the reason I said that was

1593
01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:55,080
Speaker 5: because of the bullets. What was engraved on these bullets.

1594
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:58,599
Speaker 5: Those are memes, like and I know this because I'm

1595
01:21:58,680 --> 01:22:01,160
Speaker 5: chronically online. Like I am chronically online.

1596
01:22:01,160 --> 01:22:01,679
Speaker 4: I'm horrible.

1597
01:22:02,360 --> 01:22:04,360
Speaker 5: So I mean, they made a whole documentary about how

1598
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:07,880
Speaker 5: on chronically online, so you know what I mean, Like,

1599
01:22:09,080 --> 01:22:12,160
Speaker 5: I recognize them immediately. I was like, oh my god,

1600
01:22:12,240 --> 01:22:15,679
Speaker 5: this guy's a nerve. He's chronically online. These are memes.

1601
01:22:16,439 --> 01:22:18,519
Speaker 5: So yeah, I agree, what do you guessing?

1602
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:24,040
Speaker 3: I also think that there is too much focus on

1603
01:22:24,360 --> 01:22:29,040
Speaker 3: the leanings politically, and also kind of to Body's point

1604
01:22:30,040 --> 01:22:34,360
Speaker 3: that politics, much like online rhetoric in general, that we

1605
01:22:34,479 --> 01:22:40,639
Speaker 3: all consume the vast majority really of people who are engaging.

1606
01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:44,000
Speaker 3: And I'm not talking about outliers who are chronically online

1607
01:22:44,160 --> 01:22:47,880
Speaker 3: or total ludites who don't have a computer, but you know,

1608
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:51,000
Speaker 3: in the middle are most people. And then it is

1609
01:22:51,120 --> 01:22:54,479
Speaker 3: the people who are on the furthest points of view

1610
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:59,519
Speaker 3: who are the loudest. It's the loud majority that gets

1611
01:22:59,560 --> 01:23:00,400
Speaker 3: the most attention.

1612
01:23:01,720 --> 01:23:06,120
Speaker 2: So I think I think perspective is such a powerful thing,

1613
01:23:06,479 --> 01:23:09,040
Speaker 2: and I think it's really important that we allow each

1614
01:23:09,040 --> 01:23:12,360
Speaker 2: other to have different perspectives. You can take a little

1615
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:15,880
Speaker 2: from both, you know, sometimes this side has some things

1616
01:23:15,960 --> 01:23:18,519
Speaker 2: you really respond to and some of the other stuff

1617
01:23:18,560 --> 01:23:18,960
Speaker 2: you don't.

1618
01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:21,840
Speaker 4: And I think we need a third party. Honestly, I

1619
01:23:21,880 --> 01:23:22,719
Speaker 4: don't know what we're going.

1620
01:23:22,640 --> 01:23:23,080
Speaker 9: To call it.

1621
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:27,440
Speaker 2: I think its a great job with the grooming terminology.

1622
01:23:27,560 --> 01:23:31,000
Speaker 2: Maybe we can come up with some new, more middle

1623
01:23:31,080 --> 01:23:36,200
Speaker 2: of the road of a sensible a sensible, common sense

1624
01:23:37,000 --> 01:23:40,479
Speaker 2: kindness at its core. Let's be smart, let's think together.

1625
01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:44,559
Speaker 2: We're the best country in the world and we all

1626
01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:44,800
Speaker 2: know this.

1627
01:23:45,439 --> 01:23:49,200
Speaker 4: So what is the name for that? I would like

1628
01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:52,679
Speaker 4: to I think we can figure it out our audience definite, yeah,

1629
01:23:52,840 --> 01:23:57,599
Speaker 4: or give us y a West Wing reference.

1630
01:23:58,080 --> 01:24:01,519
Speaker 3: But by the way, body, when you said when you

1631
01:24:01,640 --> 01:24:04,600
Speaker 3: made loud of they made a whole documentary of me

1632
01:24:04,760 --> 01:24:08,519
Speaker 3: being online, that made me laugh in my head, I'm like,

1633
01:24:08,560 --> 01:24:12,200
Speaker 3: oh my goodness, what would everyone's documentary be? And we

1634
01:24:12,280 --> 01:24:13,840
Speaker 3: don't need to answer right now, but if it was

1635
01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:17,080
Speaker 3: like your kind of bad habit or the thing that maybe,

1636
01:24:17,240 --> 01:24:21,840
Speaker 3: like I don't know, mine would be boring. First of all,

1637
01:24:22,040 --> 01:24:25,160
Speaker 3: I'm sure, I'm strong.

1638
01:24:25,320 --> 01:24:29,720
Speaker 4: Take that. Don't your way, you'd be real fun.

1639
01:24:30,200 --> 01:24:34,080
Speaker 2: Don't rest assured you've all you'd all be great reality stars.

1640
01:24:34,160 --> 01:24:39,280
Speaker 2: Rest assured to listen and everybody should live their lifelike

1641
01:24:39,320 --> 01:24:41,720
Speaker 2: cameras are watching, Like, what are the micro decisions that

1642
01:24:41,800 --> 01:24:44,120
Speaker 2: people are making when nobody is looking? You know, what

1643
01:24:44,280 --> 01:24:46,439
Speaker 2: if you were on that reality show or you were

1644
01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:49,560
Speaker 2: on a documentary series and yeah, who are you?

1645
01:24:50,040 --> 01:24:53,439
Speaker 4: Who do you want to be? And I think it matters.

1646
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:56,080
Speaker 4: So yeah, we have another talk back coming in right now.

1647
01:24:57,160 --> 01:25:00,280
Speaker 15: Hey, True Crime tonight. This is Sarah from Mission Again.

1648
01:25:00,479 --> 01:25:02,320
Speaker 15: I just wanted to let you know that I love

1649
01:25:02,439 --> 01:25:05,240
Speaker 15: hearing from Sam and Adam in the control room, and

1650
01:25:05,560 --> 01:25:08,000
Speaker 15: I love hearing about great of the Kiddy Cat and

1651
01:25:08,160 --> 01:25:11,320
Speaker 15: so I wanted to encourage them to keep speaking up.

1652
01:25:11,920 --> 01:25:13,960
Speaker 15: It's nice to hear that they're a little bit younger

1653
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:15,680
Speaker 15: than you guys, so maybe they'd have a little bit

1654
01:25:15,680 --> 01:25:18,000
Speaker 15: of a different perspective. I think I just wanted to

1655
01:25:18,120 --> 01:25:21,679
Speaker 15: encourage you guys to keep talking. I love you guys.

1656
01:25:21,880 --> 01:25:30,920
Speaker 4: Bye, Bye, Okay, Sam and Adam had his sister Sarah, No,

1657
01:25:31,120 --> 01:25:31,760
Speaker 4: that's not true.

1658
01:25:31,800 --> 01:25:35,639
Speaker 14: This is we did not plant this, uh and we're

1659
01:25:35,680 --> 01:25:38,479
Speaker 14: hearing it. More and more people are demanding Sam and

1660
01:25:38,520 --> 01:25:39,920
Speaker 14: Adam during the show.

1661
01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:45,160
Speaker 2: Adam show, they're the best, And to your point, they're

1662
01:25:45,240 --> 01:25:48,439
Speaker 2: the best, and we are so grateful to get to

1663
01:25:48,479 --> 01:25:51,679
Speaker 2: work together. And we actually have a lot of yeah

1664
01:25:51,840 --> 01:25:55,400
Speaker 2: giggles together and I think it's it's real late night

1665
01:25:55,600 --> 01:25:57,320
Speaker 2: love amongst us.

1666
01:25:57,400 --> 01:26:00,320
Speaker 4: So, guys, how often we say speak up? You want

1667
01:26:00,439 --> 01:26:01,280
Speaker 4: something to say? Say it?

1668
01:26:01,439 --> 01:26:04,479
Speaker 14: That's right now. They're very encouraging. They're very encouraging to us.

1669
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:07,000
Speaker 14: And this is a not a bad job to come

1670
01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:10,000
Speaker 14: to every night. It's a fun place to be and uh,

1671
01:26:10,360 --> 01:26:12,040
Speaker 14: we're very grateful to be here. I don't know if

1672
01:26:12,439 --> 01:26:13,759
Speaker 14: Sam wants to speak for himself.

1673
01:26:13,880 --> 01:26:16,160
Speaker 16: Yeah, yeah, this is quite the opposite of what I'm

1674
01:26:16,240 --> 01:26:18,639
Speaker 16: doing in the early parts of the morning. And honestly,

1675
01:26:18,720 --> 01:26:23,000
Speaker 16: if it wasn't for you, guys, this might be a harder. Yeah,

1676
01:26:23,640 --> 01:26:24,280
Speaker 16: you to swallow.

1677
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:25,840
Speaker 9: Thank you.

1678
01:26:26,560 --> 01:26:33,200
Speaker 4: Hopefully your day job mornings aren't listening. That sounds terrible.

1679
01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:38,400
Speaker 4: That guy's name was Mark exactly.

1680
01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:42,040
Speaker 14: Yeah, I don't know that.

1681
01:26:44,160 --> 01:26:47,240
Speaker 4: Was not Sam. But by the way we all met, you.

1682
01:26:47,280 --> 01:26:51,320
Speaker 2: Know, we only met Sam and Adam on this job, right,

1683
01:26:51,479 --> 01:26:54,400
Speaker 2: so we were we were brought together via iHeart and

1684
01:26:54,520 --> 01:26:56,600
Speaker 2: you know that could go sideways, you know, and I

1685
01:26:56,880 --> 01:26:59,600
Speaker 2: like to say it was a LoveFest from jump.

1686
01:27:00,240 --> 01:27:02,880
Speaker 14: Thanks to Oscar. He had the foresight to bring us

1687
01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:03,360
Speaker 14: all together.

1688
01:27:03,640 --> 01:27:04,439
Speaker 4: Isn't that the truth?

1689
01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:07,840
Speaker 2: And there's something we're trying to start a band because

1690
01:27:07,840 --> 01:27:09,840
Speaker 2: you know, these guys are also to your point, they're

1691
01:27:10,000 --> 01:27:15,160
Speaker 2: very hip and cool. They play instruments and Sam and

1692
01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:16,920
Speaker 2: Adam are going to be We'll go ahead.

1693
01:27:16,920 --> 01:27:19,400
Speaker 4: You guys can speak for yourself. You know, lessons start

1694
01:27:19,479 --> 01:27:20,040
Speaker 4: this weekend.

1695
01:27:20,760 --> 01:27:22,840
Speaker 14: Well we no, that's okay, we don't need to. This

1696
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:26,960
Speaker 14: is my mind's on radium laser Foard who's keyboard?

1697
01:27:28,439 --> 01:27:30,320
Speaker 4: Well that's okay. We can work it out.

1698
01:27:30,360 --> 01:27:32,320
Speaker 14: Well, we have a strong win section that I was.

1699
01:27:32,320 --> 01:27:32,680
Speaker 2: Going to say.

1700
01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:34,240
Speaker 4: I feel like there's clarinets.

1701
01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:37,519
Speaker 14: Yeah, and I did play trumpet. I was a big

1702
01:27:37,560 --> 01:27:39,400
Speaker 14: trumpet player in high school.

1703
01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:46,799
Speaker 4: Called saxon high school. Yeah, saxophone alto saxophone man, shocker,

1704
01:27:47,040 --> 01:27:48,920
Speaker 4: just be harmy. I just have to sing back up.

1705
01:27:49,000 --> 01:27:52,880
Speaker 4: So no instruments here, sorry, right, that's better than nothing.

1706
01:27:53,200 --> 01:27:56,360
Speaker 14: I will say. It was great to have my cat

1707
01:27:56,439 --> 01:28:01,280
Speaker 14: Rita immortalize on air. First time she was mentioned, I

1708
01:28:01,320 --> 01:28:03,519
Speaker 14: went home and I told her that she was. She's

1709
01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:04,360
Speaker 14: famous now.

1710
01:28:04,360 --> 01:28:04,439
Speaker 15: So.

1711
01:28:06,120 --> 01:28:09,439
Speaker 4: There's a show exter cleaning. She's just sitting there making

1712
01:28:09,439 --> 01:28:14,160
Speaker 4: herself funny. Like Weda needs to be in the pictures, right, Like,

1713
01:28:14,240 --> 01:28:15,479
Speaker 4: let's make her a showcat.

1714
01:28:15,680 --> 01:28:19,360
Speaker 5: So we have a little detective hat. Yes, we have

1715
01:28:19,400 --> 01:28:21,679
Speaker 5: to talk about True Cremonchill. You guys back to business.

1716
01:28:22,120 --> 01:28:24,920
Speaker 4: Yes, sorry, Honestly, all I want to do is talk

1717
01:28:24,960 --> 01:28:25,800
Speaker 4: to Sam and Adam for the.

1718
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:28,680
Speaker 5: I know, I know, that's why I have to lay

1719
01:28:28,720 --> 01:28:30,720
Speaker 5: the hammer down on track, but I have to lay

1720
01:28:30,760 --> 01:28:31,360
Speaker 5: the hammer down.

1721
01:28:31,600 --> 01:28:32,720
Speaker 4: Okay, keep us on track.

1722
01:28:32,800 --> 01:28:35,559
Speaker 5: We're doing True Crime and Chill tomorrow and the focus

1723
01:28:35,760 --> 01:28:39,439
Speaker 5: is the Amanda Knox on Hulu, the new the new series, right,

1724
01:28:39,960 --> 01:28:41,759
Speaker 5: and so we're going to be talking about that tomorrow,

1725
01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:46,640
Speaker 5: but then surprise, surprise, Thursday, Amanda's going to be with us.

1726
01:28:47,320 --> 01:28:49,720
Speaker 5: So listen, we have we need you talk backs for

1727
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:52,679
Speaker 5: True crem and Chill, but we also need your talkbacks

1728
01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:56,120
Speaker 5: for Amanda. Have you guys been following Amanda's case as

1729
01:28:56,160 --> 01:28:57,680
Speaker 5: long as I have, because if you have, I know

1730
01:28:57,800 --> 01:28:58,559
Speaker 5: you have questions.

1731
01:28:58,720 --> 01:28:59,160
Speaker 2: I know you do.

1732
01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:02,040
Speaker 5: Give us a call eighty eight thirty one Crime, leave

1733
01:29:02,120 --> 01:29:04,400
Speaker 5: us a message and we'll play it on air, or

1734
01:29:04,880 --> 01:29:07,920
Speaker 5: use the iHeartRadio app with the little microphone and leave

1735
01:29:07,960 --> 01:29:10,559
Speaker 5: Amanda a message, maybe even if it's just maybe it's

1736
01:29:10,640 --> 01:29:13,479
Speaker 5: just even a message of encouragement, like hey, you know,

1737
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:15,240
Speaker 5: I saw your documentary and you inspired me.

1738
01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:17,160
Speaker 4: Like whatever, just let us know.

1739
01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:21,559
Speaker 3: Or you watch Twisted Tail on Zulu and you're an

1740
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:24,599
Speaker 3: amazing EP, which I have to say.

1741
01:29:24,840 --> 01:29:28,280
Speaker 4: Great job. That's what has it aged. I know, I

1742
01:29:28,320 --> 01:29:30,200
Speaker 4: hope she's not listening to this, but like she has not.

1743
01:29:30,640 --> 01:29:32,639
Speaker 2: Part of the reason why I think this case happened

1744
01:29:32,720 --> 01:29:34,920
Speaker 2: yesterday is because when I see her in the press,

1745
01:29:35,400 --> 01:29:37,839
Speaker 2: she looks exactly the same in terms.

1746
01:29:37,640 --> 01:29:39,160
Speaker 4: Of that gorgeous skin.

1747
01:29:39,320 --> 01:29:39,560
Speaker 13: I know.

1748
01:29:40,760 --> 01:29:42,720
Speaker 2: Is it bad that we talked to her about skincare

1749
01:29:42,880 --> 01:29:47,240
Speaker 2: all Thursday night because a commercial. I'm going to make

1750
01:29:47,240 --> 01:29:49,240
Speaker 2: a note about that right now. Add that to the

1751
01:29:49,360 --> 01:29:54,360
Speaker 2: list of pressing questions for Amanda. Well, listen, this one

1752
01:29:54,439 --> 01:29:54,960
Speaker 2: went fast.

1753
01:29:55,040 --> 01:29:55,439
Speaker 4: You had again.

1754
01:29:55,439 --> 01:29:57,439
Speaker 2: If you missed any of the show, of course, catch

1755
01:29:57,520 --> 01:30:02,439
Speaker 2: it right after as a podcast. And Tomorrow Wednesday, come on,

1756
01:30:02,760 --> 01:30:04,880
Speaker 2: we're gonna true crime and chill. Make sure you watch

1757
01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:09,160
Speaker 2: tonight and Amanda Knox on Thursday. Have a great night, everybody,

1758
01:30:09,320 --> 01:30:09,960
Speaker 2: stay safe.

1759
01:30:10,760 --> 01:30:11,000
Speaker 9: Math