Speaker 1: All the media. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. It's
Speaker 1: me James today and I'm very lucky to be joined
Speaker 1: by Theo Henderson, who is host of the extent wee
Speaker 1: the Unhoused podcast. How are you doing today here?
Speaker 2: Thank you?
Speaker 3: You know, hanging in there in this turbulent time, but
Speaker 3: doing okay. How are you today?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Good?
Speaker 1: Also also hanging in there a lot of like being
Speaker 1: out late in the streets and then going up early
Speaker 1: to podcasts. But you know, it's okay, it's good. I
Speaker 1: I'm really happy to have you here today because I
Speaker 1: want to talk about like the intersection of protesting, being unhused,
Speaker 1: and being undocumented. These are all things that like sometimes
Speaker 1: people can look at as unique issues, right they go
Speaker 1: siloed off from one another, and they're very much not
Speaker 1: and they're very much connected by a few axes, one
Speaker 1: of which is policing and stay violence. To start off with,
Speaker 1: maybe you could explain, like, in terms of the Los
Speaker 1: Angeles protests we've seen the last the impact on unhoused people,
Speaker 1: and specifically like because of where they are, right the
Speaker 1: heightened depacts on unhoused people.
Speaker 2: That's okay.
Speaker 3: The reality of the situation is this is that when
Speaker 3: there are protests, not just the conversation that's current now,
Speaker 3: unhouse people inadvertently get the runoff of the aggression, the
Speaker 3: tear gas, the uncertainty of being able to find a
Speaker 3: safe space to sleep, because when we do, as protesters
Speaker 3: that are housed protests, we encompass the entire area that
Speaker 3: usually is these staple or the landmarks of places where
Speaker 3: we should protest. For example, downtown LA where I currently live,
Speaker 3: is where the city Hall is, It's where major police
Speaker 3: stations are, It's where we have major landmarks like Hall
Speaker 3: of Justice and those places, and many unhoused people congregate
Speaker 3: and live near those places. And in the none will
Speaker 3: say the best of times, but in the most neutral
Speaker 3: of times, they have to be on a tiptoe stands
Speaker 3: from being swept because they have to deal with the
Speaker 3: sweeps in addition to the unrest that's going on now.
Speaker 3: What I have found is that because I live near
Speaker 3: an sro, the sleeping has become a difficulty because the
Speaker 3: constant helicopters that are swooping through all night, and the
Speaker 3: constant ambulances or the sirens that going on, and the
Speaker 3: distance and in front of you, near where you reside,
Speaker 3: most recently the projectile shooting of rubber bullets or maybe
Speaker 3: real bullets or whatever, or the chance and things of
Speaker 3: that that all coomfiity of noise creates an unstable environment
Speaker 3: where in the best of times, where people you requires
Speaker 3: eight hours sleep and house people may get free to
Speaker 3: maybe four hours if at but giving that what's going
Speaker 3: on in their peak times where they're trying to sleep,
Speaker 3: they did not. A lot of them during the next
Speaker 3: day looked very sleep worn. They looked very exhausted, and
Speaker 3: it tells because they don't have a place where they
Speaker 3: can just you know, leave. They don't they can't just
Speaker 3: jump to in an hotel. It's just it's not reality.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely noticed that, like the noise obviously, like
Speaker 1: I work with audios, so I'm thinking about noise and like, like,
Speaker 1: for instance, I was going around with my podcast recorder
Speaker 1: here right and like constantly having to adjust the levels
Speaker 1: down because the background noise was so like you said,
Speaker 1: they're always helicopters, there's people chanting, the cops are occasionally
Speaker 1: just driving a high speed with siren on. It was
Speaker 1: very noise, and I was thinking about the people who
Speaker 1: are living there and how hard it must be to
Speaker 1: get some rest. And how like, I was speaking to
Speaker 1: one guy who was living down there, probably about noon,
Speaker 1: just walking from Union Station to downtown, and he was saying,
Speaker 1: how like, he lived with anxiety, so he didn't want
Speaker 1: to be present in the protest, but he was supportive
Speaker 1: of his unhoused community members. But I can imagine, you know,
Speaker 1: the anxiety doesn't get any better for him if he's
Speaker 1: not sleeping.
Speaker 3: Right, they can compounds, yes, and not mentioned the the
Speaker 3: frailties of life. Maybe having disabilities or maybe have helped
Speaker 3: other health chologists that preclude being able to have a neutral,
Speaker 3: a stationary place, And you just can't get up and
Speaker 3: go at a moment's notice. You have to require planning
Speaker 3: or you know, or then you can get swept up
Speaker 3: into the you know, the matrix of the protesters and
Speaker 3: get swept along with how they're treating them. So it's
Speaker 3: not an easy place to navigate, and it's not a
Speaker 3: place as unhoused people. That's just one more obstacle to
Speaker 3: a hurdle to overcome and try to just stay above
Speaker 3: the frame.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And you can't obviously just leave your stuff
Speaker 1: and you risk losing.
Speaker 2: All of it absolutely so.
Speaker 1: One thing that like I have observed extensively is that,
Speaker 1: like in the undocumented community, a lot of people end
Speaker 1: up on house, right, Is that something you've noticed, like
Speaker 1: in your time, like out on the streets and like
Speaker 1: in sro housing. Are there a lot of undocumented people
Speaker 1: this common?
Speaker 3: Yes, there is a percentage of undocumented people. Statistics vary
Speaker 3: because of the volatility of trying to record someone that's undocumented,
Speaker 3: but there are many of them are employed in stay
Speaker 3: laborers or low in wage workers that are working in
Speaker 3: mom and pop restaurants or creative kind of entrepreneur type
Speaker 3: of pursuits in order to survive. One of the things
Speaker 3: that has been becoming much more in the four recently,
Speaker 3: which why I say the intersections are so important to
Speaker 3: understand and the philosophy and the ideology of it, is
Speaker 3: that many people that are against a lot of the undocumentation,
Speaker 3: violence and things of that nature are not necessarily as
Speaker 3: vocal as about the hostility that on house people go through,
Speaker 3: or you don't see them on the frontline protesting as
Speaker 3: deeply as what's going on today, because when you see swepes,
Speaker 3: you don't see many of the protesters out there as
Speaker 3: fighting cops and things is speaking out against it. You
Speaker 3: don't see them making chance or really making the situation
Speaker 3: much more intense and changing. What you do see is
Speaker 3: polite conversation or politicians curving the conversation to shape it
Speaker 3: in the way that the unhoused person is the bad guy.
Speaker 3: They're affecting business, they are going to the bathroom all
Speaker 3: over the place. They are not productive citizens and should
Speaker 3: be treated usly as violently as possibly they can. Conversely, one,
Speaker 3: we don't understand that when we have the undocumented community
Speaker 3: that's been targeted, like in San Diego most recently here
Speaker 3: and near Whittier, targeting undocumented unhoused people going to sweeps
Speaker 3: now and looking for undocumented people, how that plays a
Speaker 3: part two and we need the same intensity, we need
Speaker 3: the same attention and understanding. Housing is one of the
Speaker 3: conversations that we need to have. Compassionate, dignified housing is
Speaker 3: the conversation we need to have. And these punitative measures
Speaker 3: doesn't work with undocumented people that are housed or maybe
Speaker 3: in a position or financial position a little bit more
Speaker 3: stabler Evan on house community undocumented people, but the end
Speaker 3: result is still the same violence.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, definitely, And like, as you said, there's been
Speaker 1: there have been several instances now that people who are
Speaker 1: unhoused or we actually don't know. I suppose what we
Speaker 1: know is that immigration authorities have attempted to raid shelters
Speaker 1: for unhoused people, right Exactly. I think people sometimes don't
Speaker 1: join the dots on these things, right because they don't
Speaker 1: have either they don't have lived experience or they just
Speaker 1: haven't thought about it deeply. But like, let's break down
Speaker 1: how damaging that is, right, Like, if people who are
Speaker 1: undocumented are afraid to go to shelters, then that means
Speaker 1: that they're not going to be able to access the
Speaker 1: resources that are there, right, Like, do you see that happening?
Speaker 1: Do you see like when they raid shelters people thinking
Speaker 1: I won't go there, or I'm sure you see on
Speaker 1: house people avoiding other things if they think that's going
Speaker 1: to mean an interaction with law enforcement.
Speaker 3: Right, But also too, we must break this down even further.
Speaker 3: Most on house people want help and services. That's even
Speaker 3: undocumented people. And the thing with is they're not taking
Speaker 3: anything from the people that pay taxes. But the product
Speaker 3: the conversation has been shaped in such a deliterious and
Speaker 3: negative fashion that it makes people much more hesitant to
Speaker 3: seek out those services. So add on to Trump's harmful
Speaker 3: rhetoric and seeing ice roll up. Even if let's say,
Speaker 3: for example, they just roll up on there and they're
Speaker 3: denied entry, it still sends the message that they are
Speaker 3: hunting you down. And most reasonable people that have those
Speaker 3: situations is all it takes is someone that agrees with
Speaker 3: the negative rhetoric that Trump espouses and that works in
Speaker 3: the shelter to step aside and let them come and
Speaker 3: start sweeping and documented people and on house people need
Speaker 3: to have the reinsurance and the confidence that they will
Speaker 3: hold the line and be able to have safeguards in
Speaker 3: place so they can be safely serviced and helped as well.
Speaker 3: And I know the conversation is starting to shift in
Speaker 3: other places, like in the mutual aid groups, because a
Speaker 3: lot of times mutual aid groups and mutual aid services
Speaker 3: are allowing all types of all walks of life for people,
Speaker 3: and we are trying to create a safer place where
Speaker 3: they can get the services and they don't have to
Speaker 3: worry about it. But it's becoming much more difficult, and
Speaker 3: so we are creating safeguards and stop gaps in place
Speaker 3: to make it very difficult or Ice to do these
Speaker 3: illegal or these harmful type of sweeps.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's really good because it is a concern,
Speaker 1: right even if you're just if you're a mutual aid
Speaker 1: group like our friends at Bread Block, right, like who
Speaker 1: feed people in San Diego. But if you put out
Speaker 1: there that you're going to be feeding people, and then
Speaker 1: ICE know that people are going to gather to receive food,
Speaker 1: that's a new thing you have to worry about, right,
Speaker 1: Like it's a new.
Speaker 2: There is another new concern.
Speaker 3: There are right wing groups that are in trying to
Speaker 3: infiltrate mutual A groups and I do need to say this,
Speaker 3: so it's very important. They're infiltrating mutual aid groups in
Speaker 3: efforts to aid ICE. And so what they're trying to
Speaker 3: do is they befriend mutual eight groups. And there is
Speaker 3: a video I saw of this guy stating that he
Speaker 3: had worked for immigrants day labors. So he gets them,
Speaker 3: loads them all into the truck and he states he
Speaker 3: promises them a job. And this guy's recording them and
Speaker 3: their reactions, and you know, they seem to be in
Speaker 3: a tranquil very convivial kind of atmosphere, and he drives
Speaker 3: up in front of the ICE Administration building and then
Speaker 3: yells out for ICE to come get them, and they scatter.
Speaker 3: So the second thing that also that's going on is
Speaker 3: too that these organizations, these right maggot groups are utilizing
Speaker 3: and trying to get personal information from mutual aid groups
Speaker 3: and to dock them to other mutual A groups and
Speaker 3: to try to target or to harass people that are
Speaker 3: reaching out trying to help the unhoused community or immigrant
Speaker 3: community or whatever community did you serve as that are
Speaker 3: dealing with undocumented immigrants.
Speaker 2: They're doing at as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and that harms everyone, right, even documented folks
Speaker 1: who run house to are citizens as we lose those services. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's take a little break and we're going to come
Speaker 1: back and talk more about this. Okay, all right, we
Speaker 1: are back. One of the things we've spoken about is
Speaker 1: like how undocumented folks often end up on the street, right,
Speaker 1: something I've seen a lot here in San Diego, at least,
Speaker 1: it is undocumented families ending up on the street, right,
Speaker 1: And that can mean that their kids don't get access
Speaker 1: to education. It makes it so much harder for them
Speaker 1: to access services are they and anyone else can access
Speaker 1: Maybe you could explain to people, because again I don't
Speaker 1: think that this is something that people consider. But we
Speaker 1: spoke about it, right when we spoke about sweeps. Democratic
Speaker 1: governors all around the country and mayors and other legislators
Speaker 1: and executive office people have claimed to be like in
Speaker 1: solidarity with migrants, right, they said they stand with their
Speaker 1: undocumented community. But at the same time, they have spent
Speaker 1: the last decade demonizing the unhoused community and passing laws
Speaker 1: in a state of the case of California, right, that
Speaker 1: make it easy to consign someone to like a mental healthhold,
Speaker 1: just for being on housed, just for not being able
Speaker 1: to make rent. Can you explain how that intersection has
Speaker 1: created a tool for oppression which is now being wielded
Speaker 1: against undocumented people. And as you said to me before
Speaker 1: we recorded, like when we build this oppressive apparatus, it
Speaker 1: can always be wielded against people who we don't think
Speaker 1: it should be wielded against.
Speaker 3: Right, Well, that's the very deep question is a question,
Speaker 3: and I'm going to try to break apart of it
Speaker 3: like a piece of bread in order hopefully to get
Speaker 3: the whole meals digested. So let's start off with understanding
Speaker 3: how in order for us to be able to criminalize
Speaker 3: a human being, we must demonize them. And in order
Speaker 3: for us to demonize them, we must create a narrative
Speaker 3: that is easily digestible but quick to point out when
Speaker 3: we're confronted with our humanity or our empathy or lack thereof.
Speaker 3: So when the conversation turns to the un housed community,
Speaker 3: for years, there's always has been on house people like
Speaker 3: being out there, they're drug addicted, they're mentally ill, they're criminals,
Speaker 3: they don't want help, or they don't want services, and
Speaker 3: the peelback that layer of onion to explain the nuances
Speaker 3: like the services are not equally provided, the services are
Speaker 3: not tailored to what the people need, and that conversation
Speaker 3: gets lost in the quagmire. Now bringing up into the
Speaker 3: four is like we have the conversation of immigration, and
Speaker 3: there has been the right wing steady diet of misinformation
Speaker 3: or disinformation about a migrant or a documented people getting benefits,
Speaker 3: living the life high on the hall, living luxuriously on
Speaker 3: a snap or food stamps and other type of benefits,
Speaker 3: and hardworking people can't get it, and that is just
Speaker 3: simply not true. But it's been fostered to such a
Speaker 3: degree that in this administration that we have down with Trump,
Speaker 3: he's creating these narratives of MS.
Speaker 2: Thirteen is let loose across the country.
Speaker 3: They are targeting hardworking people, killing them off, and gang
Speaker 3: violence is that are all time high, which is not true. Statistically,
Speaker 3: we are at the most downward slope that we've had
Speaker 3: in over twenty to thirty years. But the fact of it,
Speaker 3: it's sears in people's minds. Who doesn't take the necessary
Speaker 3: steps to break down the stereotypes and understand how that
Speaker 3: is not true and it's harming, then we have un
Speaker 3: choose this recipe of disinformation, the idea that some people
Speaker 3: believe that they are worthy and their immigrants background, and
Speaker 3: some are unworthy. Like when I say this statement, and
Speaker 3: I always keep saying this, and I've been saying this
Speaker 3: for a few years because it's an uncomfortable conversation, is
Speaker 3: some people are invested in their own impression. And when
Speaker 3: I say this, this is what I mean. Some people,
Speaker 3: like for example, in the unhoused community that I had
Speaker 3: been unhoused for over eight years, I would hear them
Speaker 3: say these kind of statements, and I in the beginning
Speaker 3: became uneasy. Then I was like, you know what, I
Speaker 3: have to challenge this because this person believes that they
Speaker 3: are well and good and they should be helped, and
Speaker 3: these other people should not be helped because they are
Speaker 3: unworthy on house and that sends off the dog whistle,
Speaker 3: and that sends off these justification for people that don't
Speaker 3: like on house people anyway to utilize that in the
Speaker 3: forefront of their explanation and reasoning in order to continue
Speaker 3: to create unitative resources and resolutions. Say, for example, the
Speaker 3: San Jose mayor Laurie who is now working to criminal
Speaker 3: onhoused people and says that if you turn down services
Speaker 3: three times, you go to jail, you are susceptible to
Speaker 3: be arrested Jesus, or you could create like in Tennessee
Speaker 3: now it is a six year felony to be unhoused
Speaker 3: and lodging out in public spaces. It's so easy to
Speaker 3: do that people who are housed do not understand it.
Speaker 3: Like in Los Angeles, like forty one eighteen is the
Speaker 3: new Jim Crow. It is against the law to sit
Speaker 3: sleepers lie. We don't talk about enough about Grant's past
Speaker 3: which has given police much more leeway, and other cities
Speaker 3: has been much more in basically a frenzy on trying
Speaker 3: to create the most unitative legislation that they possibly can
Speaker 3: against unhoused people.
Speaker 2: So these are the end results of this.
Speaker 3: So when we start to say it, and I always
Speaker 3: say this in my show, if you can't help a person,
Speaker 3: don't harm them.
Speaker 2: I will add further.
Speaker 3: With doctor King says, there's nothing much more dangerous than
Speaker 3: sincere ignorance or will for stupidity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a really it's a really good
Speaker 1: thing way to put it, because like there is so
Speaker 1: much I mean, I don't know if it comes out
Speaker 1: of like you say, then source stupidity, but like so
Speaker 1: many of these things actually end up at the same spot, right,
Speaker 1: like increased numbers of people detained, more money for private prisons,
Speaker 1: more money for police, right exactly, Like it shouldn't matter
Speaker 1: to us where someone's sleeping, right, we don't want that
Speaker 1: person to go to jail. They haven't done anything wrong.
Speaker 1: And I think it's something that like now it's maybe
Speaker 1: a good time for people to talk about that, right.
Speaker 3: And incidentally that's not helping the situation anyway, because once
Speaker 3: they got jail. Now they have a criminal record, and
Speaker 3: we know how we are against criminals and trying to
Speaker 3: find jobs and housing, find housing, So where are they
Speaker 3: going to go? So they're going back into the state
Speaker 3: of houselessness and the state of I would say non existence,
Speaker 3: but the state of punitative consequences just for being trying
Speaker 3: to exist.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then if you know they were misdemeanor, they'll
Speaker 1: get another misdemeanor just for living on the street again,
Speaker 1: and then they'll stack misdemeanors and end up with lengthy sentence.
Speaker 3: But in the case of Tennessee, that's a felony. It's
Speaker 3: not a misdemeanor. It's a six year piece prison sentence.
Speaker 3: So let's say, for example, that they find you sleeping
Speaker 3: out on the streets and they take you to jail.
Speaker 3: Now that you have a six year felony. Now, as
Speaker 3: you know, people that have felonies are it's much more
Speaker 3: difficult to find jobs, to vote, and things like that.
Speaker 3: To take it to even further, like trying to find housing,
Speaker 3: they're filling out housing applications and the acts. If you've
Speaker 3: been charged with a felony, they have to put that there.
Speaker 3: Trying to find housing. You know, what's the odds that
Speaker 3: they're going to get housing charge being on house? So
Speaker 3: we need to look at these things and says, why
Speaker 3: is it that our major knee jerk reaction is always
Speaker 3: going to penalize poor people?
Speaker 2: Because this is what this boils down to.
Speaker 3: They have they have not the idea in order to
Speaker 3: keep poor people set upon other poor people is believe
Speaker 3: that they're deserving better treatment than other poor people that
Speaker 3: look like for them, and the okay with how they're
Speaker 3: being treated, in the faith into the delusion that they
Speaker 3: won't be affected by it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I think it's a good point that like
Speaker 1: this deserving the good migrant bag, myrant, deserving poor and
Speaker 1: deserving poor, like, all that does is it justifies violence
Speaker 1: against whoever it is stigmatizing, and like we should just
Speaker 1: I guess say pretty like in case people aren't aware,
Speaker 1: I guess like when we look at Robert Paxton's book
Speaker 1: The Anatomia of Fascism, Paxton talks about the motivating passions
Speaker 1: of fascism, and one of them is this idea that
Speaker 1: there is a scapegroat group which is to blame for
Speaker 1: decline and like, yes, we can see the Trump administration
Speaker 1: doing that with migrants. We can see democratic mayors blaming
Speaker 1: unhoused people for the decline of their cities, right, for
Speaker 1: their failure to manage budgets, for their inability to do
Speaker 1: anything other than send a fire hose of money to
Speaker 1: the cops. Right, it's completely endemic. I know in San
Speaker 1: Diego told Gloria loves to demonize onnhouse people, right, and
Speaker 1: he has done for years. And you know we're now
Speaker 1: in a state where we're closing down our libraries for
Speaker 1: more time, make it even harder for people to access services.
Speaker 1: A place where people can access the internet. If you
Speaker 1: want to make that housing application, now you can't go
Speaker 1: to the library one more day we can do it.
Speaker 1: It's like these two things are like different heads of
Speaker 1: the same hydra.
Speaker 3: I guess let me point out to like, for example,
Speaker 3: when I was on the streets as well. The library
Speaker 3: is a lifeline for many reasons. And we have a
Speaker 3: heat wave, many on house people go to the library
Speaker 3: to stay cool. When we have a store storm, a rainstorm,
Speaker 3: many onhouse people goes there. Many on house people unfortunately
Speaker 3: use it as a burd bad place because they don't
Speaker 3: want to smell bad. Despite society opinion, they'll offer enough
Speaker 3: free showers or places where and house people can safely shower,
Speaker 3: get their things laundered in a way. So they have
Speaker 3: to create solutions in order to survive and sustain themselves
Speaker 3: in their lives. So the library is more than just
Speaker 3: supplying the books and reading and in housing application, it
Speaker 3: is a lifeline in many respects where on house people
Speaker 3: can be able to tether on to a semblance of normalcy,
Speaker 3: if you will.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. It's another thing that I noticed, actually is
Speaker 1: I was walking around downtown LA. It's something I noticed
Speaker 1: here in San Diego there are not accessible bathrooms for
Speaker 1: people exactly, right, and maybe other people, Like if you've
Speaker 1: been out in the streets in LA or wherever you live,
Speaker 1: you might have noticed this too, Right, Like, I was
Speaker 1: very lucky a resident of downtown let me into their
Speaker 1: house so they could use a bathroom. But like, this
Speaker 1: is a city with millions of people, with billions of
Speaker 1: dollars in budget. Right, the cops had five helicopters. I
Speaker 1: refuse to believe that it's not possible for them to
Speaker 1: create a place for people to use the bathroom safely.
Speaker 3: And therein lies a conundrum is that people with the
Speaker 3: demanding restrooms and the city says that they can't financially
Speaker 3: sustain them, or they utilize every reason in the world
Speaker 3: to discourage a believe it's going to discourage a bottle
Speaker 3: functions from unhoused people, which is ridiculous because we're still
Speaker 3: going to have to go to the restroom no matter
Speaker 3: we're living in the street or earn a home. That's
Speaker 3: one universal equity that's never going to change. And the
Speaker 3: thing most importantly of it is is that I have
Speaker 3: a story that I tell about my own experience with it.
Speaker 3: During the pandemic, I had broken my leg and I
Speaker 3: had it was on a walker and everything shut down.
Speaker 3: There were no public porter parties, there were no bathrooms,
Speaker 3: and the only way I could get to a bathroom
Speaker 3: that at the time that was open was Starbucks. So
Speaker 3: and Starbucks was like almost a half a mile away,
Speaker 3: so I had to hobble there and they wouldn't let
Speaker 3: me in because they were because I was on house
Speaker 3: and they felt that I was going to take a
Speaker 3: bath into the bathroom and I just needed to use
Speaker 3: the restroom. And this hurdle is another hurdle that many
Speaker 3: unhouse people have to go through, which is why they
Speaker 3: use libraries, which is why they use public facilities. But
Speaker 3: let's say, for example, Union Station, they do liberately goal
Speaker 3: and shut off. They have like five stalls, and then
Speaker 3: they shut off the other bathroom and lock that up,
Speaker 3: and they'll lock the other bathroom down the other part
Speaker 3: of the Union station.
Speaker 2: Union Station is a busy place.
Speaker 3: Why it makes no sense that this constant, less, punitative,
Speaker 3: this insided or illogical viewpoint that's being ruled over to
Speaker 3: the city and it runs over, it spills over in
Speaker 3: every way possible. That makes it very clear to be
Speaker 3: poor is the most horrible thing in the world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody, take another break here and then we're going
Speaker 1: to come back and finish up. Okay, way are back,
Speaker 1: so what I want to finish up with. And I
Speaker 1: think it's always a good thing when folks are out
Speaker 1: in the street, right, Like I guess not always, but
Speaker 1: I don't really in support people being out in the street.
Speaker 1: There are people who are out in the street and
Speaker 1: they're realizing that things are worse than they thought. Right.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of people who have gone out
Speaker 1: in the street this week thinking that they had a
Speaker 1: First Amendment right to protest and being tear gased or
Speaker 1: shot with rubber bullets. And maybe they haven't been in
Speaker 1: areas where they see unhoused people right, or they've been
Speaker 1: managed to sort of remain ignoring the scale of the problem,
Speaker 1: and now they're realizing how bad things are and they
Speaker 1: want to help. How do they do that in a
Speaker 1: way that it's respectful and in a way that doesn't
Speaker 1: harm someone while trying to help them? Do you think, like,
Speaker 1: where should they start that process?
Speaker 3: Not to self andngrandize myself, but I have a podcast
Speaker 3: that I've created when I lived on the street, which
Speaker 3: is called Weedy and House And in that conversation from
Speaker 3: there's a bevy of episodes that talk about these very
Speaker 3: same issues. One the understanding of empathy. The second thing
Speaker 3: is to be educated on the realities and the differences
Speaker 3: of unhoused community members, the nuances, how to approach unhouse people,
Speaker 3: how to sustain a relationship with unhoused people, and how
Speaker 3: to create a mutual aid or a group of people
Speaker 3: that come in and check in on unhoused people in
Speaker 3: order for them to help shepherd them along the realities
Speaker 3: of houselessness.
Speaker 2: Many people have many skills in many groups.
Speaker 3: That's when I find with Mutual Aid and they're able
Speaker 3: to tap into those skills in order to get some
Speaker 3: unhoused people some services, some help, some notice, some pressure
Speaker 3: to get places or get them placed or in the
Speaker 3: hospital or whatever it is they need. The first step
Speaker 3: is to, you know, listen in on some of the episodes,
Speaker 3: hear their stories and understand their stories. I always asks
Speaker 3: on house people, what is the best way for us
Speaker 3: to help you? Because what would help me being on
Speaker 3: house is very different than what a mother that's up
Speaker 3: to that's fleeing domestic abuse. There's a lot of things
Speaker 3: that I cannot foresee that she has to foresee for
Speaker 3: the safety and life and her life and her children's life.
Speaker 3: And so she would have different other solutions that would
Speaker 3: not fit my solution or my way of helping me.
Speaker 3: And we must understand houselessness is not monolith. It is
Speaker 3: very layered many reasons why people are on the streets,
Speaker 3: from political to being burned out on the system, and
Speaker 3: to just trying to survive day to day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's a really good answer toly like,
Speaker 1: it's not something you can just as you say, it's
Speaker 1: not a monolith. It's not something that where everyone is
Speaker 1: the same, certainly, like my experience with un house neighbors
Speaker 1: that I have and then undocumented on house folks. You know,
Speaker 1: everyone has different concerns, right, Everyone has different needs, even
Speaker 1: little things like I remember trying to help a family
Speaker 1: and you know they had come to the US from
Speaker 1: Venezuela and they had different food preferences, just just shit
Speaker 1: like that. If you can make someone more comfortable just
Speaker 1: by asking it so much, it's so much easier to do.
Speaker 1: I wonder, like you've been downtown the last few nights,
Speaker 1: Like it's rough, right, it's traumatizing, Like do you see
Speaker 1: people expressing solidarity with unhoused people? Like do you see
Speaker 1: because there is a feeling of it can be very
Speaker 1: ice relating that there can also be like at times
Speaker 1: I've said this before a lot, but like I feel
Speaker 1: very taken care of because I see strangers feeding each other.
Speaker 1: I see strangers washing each other's eyes out. I see
Speaker 1: people just taking care of each other, if each other
Speaker 1: in small ways, bringing water, bringing food. Do you feel
Speaker 1: like the unhoused community is being shown that same care
Speaker 1: and affection like during these protests, I have not.
Speaker 2: Seen it in this instance.
Speaker 3: I noticed that we were in the George Floyd protest,
Speaker 3: there was more of an awakening about the unhoused communities
Speaker 3: because they kept inhabiting and they started to do that. Definitely,
Speaker 3: I will like to believe that that has continued to
Speaker 3: spill over. I noticed sometimes when the protests of what's
Speaker 3: going on in Palestine, many Palestine or protesters will walk
Speaker 3: past the Mutual Aid stations. Some would stop and say something,
Speaker 3: or some would just keep right on going.
Speaker 2: Again.
Speaker 3: I think it's one of the things one of the
Speaker 3: narrative's successes of the right wing narratives is to late
Speaker 3: and house people, make sure that's their issue is completely different.
Speaker 3: And to that way, you can be able to continue
Speaker 3: to demonize and criminalize and house people with the respect
Speaker 3: the people that are waving the gods are flag or
Speaker 3: waving flags of Mexico. They can feel safe in the
Speaker 3: delusion that they're safe. And these people are then nereword
Speaker 3: Wells and we are not. We are we are legitimately
Speaker 3: fighting for freedom and house people are just fighting just
Speaker 3: to get their next hit, you know.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and I think until we realize all our
Speaker 1: struggles are connected, like we we wait, you know, this
Speaker 1: is very clearly something that neoliberalism has done right, Like
Speaker 1: it's pursued identity politics in a way that doesn't lift
Speaker 1: people up so much as it splits them apart, and
Speaker 1: it stops us seeing all our struggles are connected. See
Speaker 1: is there anything else you wanted to share with people
Speaker 1: before we before we wrap up today.
Speaker 3: I think we covered the long and short of it.
Speaker 3: You know, it's yeah, we can. This is just a
Speaker 3: primer on some of the insights. Yes, it's a very
Speaker 3: fluid situation. There's going to be new insights and new
Speaker 3: observations as this protest unravels and we will get to
Speaker 3: see what this administration what next harm that they're going
Speaker 3: to do to vulnerable people.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: If people want to follow your podcast or follow you elsewhere,
Speaker 1: where can they find you?
Speaker 3: They can find me on iHeartMedia, on they can find
Speaker 3: me on where they find that podcast. I'm on iHeart Apples, Spotify, Amazon,
Speaker 3: anywhere you find your podcast.
Speaker 2: I'm there.
Speaker 1: Great. Thank you so much for your time, south Mentha,
Speaker 1: that was a great conversation.
Speaker 2: Thank you, and hopefully we'll meet again in a light
Speaker 2: of understanding. Jeez, thank you. It could happen. Here is
Speaker 2: a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from
Speaker 2: Cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or
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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.