WEBVTT - Protest, Immigration Enforcement, and the Unhoused Community 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:07.960 All the media. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. It's 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:10.880 me James today and I'm very lucky to be joined 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:13.760 by Theo Henderson, who is host of the extent wee 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:16.120 the Unhoused podcast. How are you doing today here? 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:16.840 Thank you? 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:19.319 You know, hanging in there in this turbulent time, but 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:21.080 doing okay. How are you today? 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:22.239 Yeah? Good? 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:25.200 Also also hanging in there a lot of like being 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:27.520 out late in the streets and then going up early 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:31.400 to podcasts. But you know, it's okay, it's good. I 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.199 I'm really happy to have you here today because I 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:39.199 want to talk about like the intersection of protesting, being unhused, 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:42.560 and being undocumented. These are all things that like sometimes 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:45.519 people can look at as unique issues, right they go 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:47.519 siloed off from one another, and they're very much not 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.440 and they're very much connected by a few axes, one 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:54.000 of which is policing and stay violence. To start off with, 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:58.160 maybe you could explain, like, in terms of the Los 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:02.440 Angeles protests we've seen the last the impact on unhoused people, 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:05.600 and specifically like because of where they are, right the 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:07.520 heightened depacts on unhoused people. 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:08.320 That's okay. 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:12.440 The reality of the situation is this is that when 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:15.680 there are protests, not just the conversation that's current now, 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:21.160 unhouse people inadvertently get the runoff of the aggression, the 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:24.240 tear gas, the uncertainty of being able to find a 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:28.040 safe space to sleep, because when we do, as protesters 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:32.640 that are housed protests, we encompass the entire area that 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:36.520 usually is these staple or the landmarks of places where 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:39.840 we should protest. For example, downtown LA where I currently live, 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:43.440 is where the city Hall is, It's where major police 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:47.800 stations are, It's where we have major landmarks like Hall 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:52.280 of Justice and those places, and many unhoused people congregate 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:56.160 and live near those places. And in the none will 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.360 say the best of times, but in the most neutral 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:02.000 of times, they have to be on a tiptoe stands 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:03.840 from being swept because they have to deal with the 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.840 sweeps in addition to the unrest that's going on now. 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:11.160 What I have found is that because I live near 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:14.960 an sro, the sleeping has become a difficulty because the 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:19.840 constant helicopters that are swooping through all night, and the 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:23.920 constant ambulances or the sirens that going on, and the 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:27.200 distance and in front of you, near where you reside, 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:32.440 most recently the projectile shooting of rubber bullets or maybe 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:35.640 real bullets or whatever, or the chance and things of 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:40.840 that that all coomfiity of noise creates an unstable environment 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.880 where in the best of times, where people you requires 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:46.600 eight hours sleep and house people may get free to 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:50.639 maybe four hours if at but giving that what's going 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:52.919 on in their peak times where they're trying to sleep, 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:55.239 they did not. A lot of them during the next 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:59.360 day looked very sleep worn. They looked very exhausted, and 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:02.320 it tells because they don't have a place where they 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:04.680 can just you know, leave. They don't they can't just 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:07.600 jump to in an hotel. It's just it's not reality. 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:11.680 Yeah, I definitely noticed that, like the noise obviously, like 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:15.560 I work with audios, so I'm thinking about noise and like, like, 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:18.240 for instance, I was going around with my podcast recorder 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:21.320 here right and like constantly having to adjust the levels 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:24.399 down because the background noise was so like you said, 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:28.279 they're always helicopters, there's people chanting, the cops are occasionally 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:31.320 just driving a high speed with siren on. It was 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:33.200 very noise, and I was thinking about the people who 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:35.080 are living there and how hard it must be to 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:37.600 get some rest. And how like, I was speaking to 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:41.760 one guy who was living down there, probably about noon, 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:45.800 just walking from Union Station to downtown, and he was saying, 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:48.640 how like, he lived with anxiety, so he didn't want 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:51.960 to be present in the protest, but he was supportive 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:55.440 of his unhoused community members. But I can imagine, you know, 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:57.880 the anxiety doesn't get any better for him if he's 0:03:57.920 --> 0:03:58.560 not sleeping. 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:03.360 Right, they can compounds, yes, and not mentioned the the 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:06.480 frailties of life. Maybe having disabilities or maybe have helped 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:09.960 other health chologists that preclude being able to have a neutral, 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:12.760 a stationary place, And you just can't get up and 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:15.440 go at a moment's notice. You have to require planning 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:17.440 or you know, or then you can get swept up 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:20.719 into the you know, the matrix of the protesters and 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:24.440 get swept along with how they're treating them. So it's 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:27.280 not an easy place to navigate, and it's not a 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:30.719 place as unhoused people. That's just one more obstacle to 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:34.000 a hurdle to overcome and try to just stay above 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:34.400 the frame. 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:37.159 Yeah, yeah, And you can't obviously just leave your stuff 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:39.480 and you risk losing. 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:40.800 All of it absolutely so. 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:44.960 One thing that like I have observed extensively is that, 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:48.960 like in the undocumented community, a lot of people end 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:52.800 up on house, right, Is that something you've noticed, like 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:55.839 in your time, like out on the streets and like 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:59.000 in sro housing. Are there a lot of undocumented people 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:00.560 this common? 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:06.440 Yes, there is a percentage of undocumented people. Statistics vary 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:11.720 because of the volatility of trying to record someone that's undocumented, 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:14.320 but there are many of them are employed in stay 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:18.120 laborers or low in wage workers that are working in 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:22.840 mom and pop restaurants or creative kind of entrepreneur type 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:27.200 of pursuits in order to survive. One of the things 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:30.279 that has been becoming much more in the four recently, 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:32.839 which why I say the intersections are so important to 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:36.920 understand and the philosophy and the ideology of it, is 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:40.839 that many people that are against a lot of the undocumentation, 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:45.039 violence and things of that nature are not necessarily as 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:48.719 vocal as about the hostility that on house people go through, 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:52.240 or you don't see them on the frontline protesting as 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:57.360 deeply as what's going on today, because when you see swepes, 0:05:57.400 --> 0:05:59.400 you don't see many of the protesters out there as 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:03.120 fighting cops and things is speaking out against it. You 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:07.000 don't see them making chance or really making the situation 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:12.159 much more intense and changing. What you do see is 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:16.440 polite conversation or politicians curving the conversation to shape it 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:19.240 in the way that the unhoused person is the bad guy. 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:22.200 They're affecting business, they are going to the bathroom all 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:25.320 over the place. They are not productive citizens and should 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:31.279 be treated usly as violently as possibly they can. Conversely, one, 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:34.440 we don't understand that when we have the undocumented community 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:38.680 that's been targeted, like in San Diego most recently here 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:42.560 and near Whittier, targeting undocumented unhoused people going to sweeps 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:47.240 now and looking for undocumented people, how that plays a 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:49.920 part two and we need the same intensity, we need 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:54.159 the same attention and understanding. Housing is one of the 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:58.560 conversations that we need to have. Compassionate, dignified housing is 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:02.080 the conversation we need to have. And these punitative measures 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:05.960 doesn't work with undocumented people that are housed or maybe 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:09.080 in a position or financial position a little bit more 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:12.880 stabler Evan on house community undocumented people, but the end 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:15.120 result is still the same violence. 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:17.560 Right, Yeah, definitely, And like, as you said, there's been 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:22.360 there have been several instances now that people who are 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:25.920 unhoused or we actually don't know. I suppose what we 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:28.880 know is that immigration authorities have attempted to raid shelters 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:32.920 for unhoused people, right Exactly. I think people sometimes don't 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:35.520 join the dots on these things, right because they don't 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:38.440 have either they don't have lived experience or they just 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:41.920 haven't thought about it deeply. But like, let's break down 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:45.360 how damaging that is, right, Like, if people who are 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:50.240 undocumented are afraid to go to shelters, then that means 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:51.680 that they're not going to be able to access the 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:55.280 resources that are there, right, Like, do you see that happening? 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:57.720 Do you see like when they raid shelters people thinking 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:00.720 I won't go there, or I'm sure you see on 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:03.280 house people avoiding other things if they think that's going 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:05.080 to mean an interaction with law enforcement. 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:08.600 Right, But also too, we must break this down even further. 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:13.000 Most on house people want help and services. That's even 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:16.680 undocumented people. And the thing with is they're not taking 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:20.600 anything from the people that pay taxes. But the product 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:23.720 the conversation has been shaped in such a deliterious and 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:27.920 negative fashion that it makes people much more hesitant to 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:31.880 seek out those services. So add on to Trump's harmful 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:35.600 rhetoric and seeing ice roll up. Even if let's say, 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:37.880 for example, they just roll up on there and they're 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:41.000 denied entry, it still sends the message that they are 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:45.560 hunting you down. And most reasonable people that have those 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:49.360 situations is all it takes is someone that agrees with 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:53.160 the negative rhetoric that Trump espouses and that works in 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:55.840 the shelter to step aside and let them come and 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:59.439 start sweeping and documented people and on house people need 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.959 to have the reinsurance and the confidence that they will 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:05.360 hold the line and be able to have safeguards in 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:08.760 place so they can be safely serviced and helped as well. 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:12.360 And I know the conversation is starting to shift in 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:14.920 other places, like in the mutual aid groups, because a 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:17.959 lot of times mutual aid groups and mutual aid services 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:20.600 are allowing all types of all walks of life for people, 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:24.200 and we are trying to create a safer place where 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:26.200 they can get the services and they don't have to 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:29.079 worry about it. But it's becoming much more difficult, and 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:32.000 so we are creating safeguards and stop gaps in place 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:36.440 to make it very difficult or Ice to do these 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:38.800 illegal or these harmful type of sweeps. 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:42.640 Yeah, I think that's really good because it is a concern, 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:44.600 right even if you're just if you're a mutual aid 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:47.480 group like our friends at Bread Block, right, like who 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:50.080 feed people in San Diego. But if you put out 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:52.240 there that you're going to be feeding people, and then 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:55.320 ICE know that people are going to gather to receive food, 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:58.480 that's a new thing you have to worry about, right, 0:09:58.520 --> 0:09:59.719 Like it's a new. 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:02.320 There is another new concern. 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:05.240 There are right wing groups that are in trying to 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:07.600 infiltrate mutual A groups and I do need to say this, 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:11.720 so it's very important. They're infiltrating mutual aid groups in 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:15.680 efforts to aid ICE. And so what they're trying to 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:18.280 do is they befriend mutual eight groups. And there is 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:20.880 a video I saw of this guy stating that he 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:24.200 had worked for immigrants day labors. So he gets them, 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:26.559 loads them all into the truck and he states he 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:31.040 promises them a job. And this guy's recording them and 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:33.440 their reactions, and you know, they seem to be in 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:38.160 a tranquil very convivial kind of atmosphere, and he drives 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:41.480 up in front of the ICE Administration building and then 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:44.280 yells out for ICE to come get them, and they scatter. 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:47.280 So the second thing that also that's going on is 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:51.800 too that these organizations, these right maggot groups are utilizing 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:54.760 and trying to get personal information from mutual aid groups 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:57.960 and to dock them to other mutual A groups and 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:02.280 to try to target or to harass people that are 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:05.559 reaching out trying to help the unhoused community or immigrant 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:08.440 community or whatever community did you serve as that are 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:10.000 dealing with undocumented immigrants. 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:11.200 They're doing at as well. 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:14.600 Yeah, yeah, and that harms everyone, right, even documented folks 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:18.360 who run house to are citizens as we lose those services. Yeah, 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:19.840 let's take a little break and we're going to come 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:32.920 back and talk more about this. Okay, all right, we 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:37.400 are back. One of the things we've spoken about is 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:41.560 like how undocumented folks often end up on the street, right, 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:43.920 something I've seen a lot here in San Diego, at least, 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:46.600 it is undocumented families ending up on the street, right, 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:49.680 And that can mean that their kids don't get access 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:53.600 to education. It makes it so much harder for them 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:57.480 to access services are they and anyone else can access 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:02.319 Maybe you could explain to people, because again I don't 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:05.520 think that this is something that people consider. But we 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.679 spoke about it, right when we spoke about sweeps. Democratic 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:14.240 governors all around the country and mayors and other legislators 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:19.080 and executive office people have claimed to be like in 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:21.840 solidarity with migrants, right, they said they stand with their 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:24.959 undocumented community. But at the same time, they have spent 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:30.199 the last decade demonizing the unhoused community and passing laws 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:32.000 in a state of the case of California, right, that 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:35.679 make it easy to consign someone to like a mental healthhold, 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.320 just for being on housed, just for not being able 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:43.160 to make rent. Can you explain how that intersection has 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:47.040 created a tool for oppression which is now being wielded 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:50.480 against undocumented people. And as you said to me before 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:53.280 we recorded, like when we build this oppressive apparatus, it 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.360 can always be wielded against people who we don't think 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:56.560 it should be wielded against. 0:12:56.640 --> 0:13:00.520 Right, Well, that's the very deep question is a question, 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:02.960 and I'm going to try to break apart of it 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:04.960 like a piece of bread in order hopefully to get 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:08.280 the whole meals digested. So let's start off with understanding 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:12.240 how in order for us to be able to criminalize 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:14.680 a human being, we must demonize them. And in order 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:17.600 for us to demonize them, we must create a narrative 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.480 that is easily digestible but quick to point out when 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:25.440 we're confronted with our humanity or our empathy or lack thereof. 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:29.160 So when the conversation turns to the un housed community, 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:31.880 for years, there's always has been on house people like 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:36.240 being out there, they're drug addicted, they're mentally ill, they're criminals, 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:39.520 they don't want help, or they don't want services, and 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:43.360 the peelback that layer of onion to explain the nuances 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:47.240 like the services are not equally provided, the services are 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:50.960 not tailored to what the people need, and that conversation 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:55.360 gets lost in the quagmire. Now bringing up into the 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:58.800 four is like we have the conversation of immigration, and 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:03.319 there has been the right wing steady diet of misinformation 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:08.640 or disinformation about a migrant or a documented people getting benefits, 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:12.680 living the life high on the hall, living luxuriously on 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:16.400 a snap or food stamps and other type of benefits, 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.560 and hardworking people can't get it, and that is just 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.480 simply not true. But it's been fostered to such a 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:26.200 degree that in this administration that we have down with Trump, 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.360 he's creating these narratives of MS. 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.920 Thirteen is let loose across the country. 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:36.040 They are targeting hardworking people, killing them off, and gang 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:39.560 violence is that are all time high, which is not true. Statistically, 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:42.440 we are at the most downward slope that we've had 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.240 in over twenty to thirty years. But the fact of it, 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.880 it's sears in people's minds. Who doesn't take the necessary 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:52.560 steps to break down the stereotypes and understand how that 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:55.320 is not true and it's harming, then we have un 0:14:55.400 --> 0:15:00.760 choose this recipe of disinformation, the idea that some people 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:03.960 believe that they are worthy and their immigrants background, and 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:07.200 some are unworthy. Like when I say this statement, and 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:09.040 I always keep saying this, and I've been saying this 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:12.160 for a few years because it's an uncomfortable conversation, is 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.720 some people are invested in their own impression. And when 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:18.240 I say this, this is what I mean. Some people, 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.360 like for example, in the unhoused community that I had 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:24.080 been unhoused for over eight years, I would hear them 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.600 say these kind of statements, and I in the beginning 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:29.520 became uneasy. Then I was like, you know what, I 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:32.800 have to challenge this because this person believes that they 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:35.720 are well and good and they should be helped, and 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:39.120 these other people should not be helped because they are 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:42.440 unworthy on house and that sends off the dog whistle, 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:45.720 and that sends off these justification for people that don't 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.400 like on house people anyway to utilize that in the 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:51.800 forefront of their explanation and reasoning in order to continue 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:56.080 to create unitative resources and resolutions. Say, for example, the 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:59.920 San Jose mayor Laurie who is now working to criminal 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:03.760 onhoused people and says that if you turn down services 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:06.400 three times, you go to jail, you are susceptible to 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:10.240 be arrested Jesus, or you could create like in Tennessee 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.520 now it is a six year felony to be unhoused 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:17.600 and lodging out in public spaces. It's so easy to 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.800 do that people who are housed do not understand it. 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.400 Like in Los Angeles, like forty one eighteen is the 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:25.280 new Jim Crow. It is against the law to sit 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:29.320 sleepers lie. We don't talk about enough about Grant's past 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:34.760 which has given police much more leeway, and other cities 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:38.920 has been much more in basically a frenzy on trying 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:42.920 to create the most unitative legislation that they possibly can 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:44.000 against unhoused people. 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.600 So these are the end results of this. 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:49.800 So when we start to say it, and I always 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:52.360 say this in my show, if you can't help a person, 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:53.360 don't harm them. 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:54.960 I will add further. 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:58.320 With doctor King says, there's nothing much more dangerous than 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:00.960 sincere ignorance or will for stupidity. 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:03.320 Yeah, I think that's a really it's a really good 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.720 thing way to put it, because like there is so 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:08.880 much I mean, I don't know if it comes out 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:11.560 of like you say, then source stupidity, but like so 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:15.280 many of these things actually end up at the same spot, right, 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:19.720 like increased numbers of people detained, more money for private prisons, 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:25.040 more money for police, right exactly, Like it shouldn't matter 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:28.119 to us where someone's sleeping, right, we don't want that 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:30.760 person to go to jail. They haven't done anything wrong. 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:34.520 And I think it's something that like now it's maybe 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:36.240 a good time for people to talk about that, right. 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.520 And incidentally that's not helping the situation anyway, because once 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:41.520 they got jail. Now they have a criminal record, and 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:44.000 we know how we are against criminals and trying to 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:46.679 find jobs and housing, find housing, So where are they 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.400 going to go? So they're going back into the state 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:52.680 of houselessness and the state of I would say non existence, 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:56.280 but the state of punitative consequences just for being trying 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:56.800 to exist. 0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:59.800 Yeah, and then if you know they were misdemeanor, they'll 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:02.680 get another misdemeanor just for living on the street again, 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:05.560 and then they'll stack misdemeanors and end up with lengthy sentence. 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:09.360 But in the case of Tennessee, that's a felony. It's 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:12.200 not a misdemeanor. It's a six year piece prison sentence. 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:14.760 So let's say, for example, that they find you sleeping 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:17.520 out on the streets and they take you to jail. 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:20.080 Now that you have a six year felony. Now, as 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:22.439 you know, people that have felonies are it's much more 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:24.720 difficult to find jobs, to vote, and things like that. 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:28.119 To take it to even further, like trying to find housing, 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:31.280 they're filling out housing applications and the acts. If you've 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:33.480 been charged with a felony, they have to put that there. 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:36.240 Trying to find housing. You know, what's the odds that 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:38.719 they're going to get housing charge being on house? So 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:41.680 we need to look at these things and says, why 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:45.000 is it that our major knee jerk reaction is always 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:47.000 going to penalize poor people? 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:48.560 Because this is what this boils down to. 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:51.879 They have they have not the idea in order to 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:55.280 keep poor people set upon other poor people is believe 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:58.639 that they're deserving better treatment than other poor people that 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:01.920 look like for them, and the okay with how they're 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:05.040 being treated, in the faith into the delusion that they 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:06.119 won't be affected by it. 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:08.399 Yeah, Yeah, I think it's a good point that like 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:12.000 this deserving the good migrant bag, myrant, deserving poor and 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:15.400 deserving poor, like, all that does is it justifies violence 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:19.240 against whoever it is stigmatizing, and like we should just 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:22.520 I guess say pretty like in case people aren't aware, 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:24.720 I guess like when we look at Robert Paxton's book 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.720 The Anatomia of Fascism, Paxton talks about the motivating passions 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:30.480 of fascism, and one of them is this idea that 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:32.879 there is a scapegroat group which is to blame for 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:36.000 decline and like, yes, we can see the Trump administration 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:39.560 doing that with migrants. We can see democratic mayors blaming 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:42.280 unhoused people for the decline of their cities, right, for 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:46.679 their failure to manage budgets, for their inability to do 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:48.800 anything other than send a fire hose of money to 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:52.520 the cops. Right, it's completely endemic. I know in San 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:55.800 Diego told Gloria loves to demonize onnhouse people, right, and 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:58.479 he has done for years. And you know we're now 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:01.879 in a state where we're closing down our libraries for 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:04.719 more time, make it even harder for people to access services. 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:07.359 A place where people can access the internet. If you 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:10.480 want to make that housing application, now you can't go 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:12.600 to the library one more day we can do it. 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:16.760 It's like these two things are like different heads of 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:17.399 the same hydra. 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:19.880 I guess let me point out to like, for example, 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:22.280 when I was on the streets as well. The library 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:26.960 is a lifeline for many reasons. And we have a 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:29.359 heat wave, many on house people go to the library 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:32.880 to stay cool. When we have a store storm, a rainstorm, 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:36.600 many onhouse people goes there. Many on house people unfortunately 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.600 use it as a burd bad place because they don't 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:43.480 want to smell bad. Despite society opinion, they'll offer enough 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:46.760 free showers or places where and house people can safely shower, 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:50.679 get their things laundered in a way. So they have 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:53.960 to create solutions in order to survive and sustain themselves 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:57.199 in their lives. So the library is more than just 0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:00.240 supplying the books and reading and in housing application, it 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:02.800 is a lifeline in many respects where on house people 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:07.240 can be able to tether on to a semblance of normalcy, 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:08.200 if you will. 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.000 Yeah, totally. It's another thing that I noticed, actually is 0:21:11.040 --> 0:21:13.399 I was walking around downtown LA. It's something I noticed 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:17.560 here in San Diego there are not accessible bathrooms for 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:21.160 people exactly, right, and maybe other people, Like if you've 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:23.640 been out in the streets in LA or wherever you live, 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:26.800 you might have noticed this too, Right, Like, I was 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:29.840 very lucky a resident of downtown let me into their 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:32.640 house so they could use a bathroom. But like, this 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:35.960 is a city with millions of people, with billions of 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:39.800 dollars in budget. Right, the cops had five helicopters. I 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:42.239