1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: All the media. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. It's 2 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: me James today and I'm very lucky to be joined 3 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: by Theo Henderson, who is host of the extent wee 4 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: the Unhoused podcast. How are you doing today here? 5 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 2: Thank you? 6 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,319 Speaker 3: You know, hanging in there in this turbulent time, but 7 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 3: doing okay. How are you today? 8 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 2: Yeah? Good? 9 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: Also also hanging in there a lot of like being 10 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: out late in the streets and then going up early 11 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: to podcasts. But you know, it's okay, it's good. I 12 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: I'm really happy to have you here today because I 13 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: want to talk about like the intersection of protesting, being unhused, 14 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 1: and being undocumented. These are all things that like sometimes 15 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: people can look at as unique issues, right they go 16 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: siloed off from one another, and they're very much not 17 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: and they're very much connected by a few axes, one 18 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: of which is policing and stay violence. To start off with, 19 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: maybe you could explain, like, in terms of the Los 20 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: Angeles protests we've seen the last the impact on unhoused people, 21 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: and specifically like because of where they are, right the 22 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: heightened depacts on unhoused people. 23 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 2: That's okay. 24 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 3: The reality of the situation is this is that when 25 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 3: there are protests, not just the conversation that's current now, 26 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 3: unhouse people inadvertently get the runoff of the aggression, the 27 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 3: tear gas, the uncertainty of being able to find a 28 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 3: safe space to sleep, because when we do, as protesters 29 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 3: that are housed protests, we encompass the entire area that 30 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 3: usually is these staple or the landmarks of places where 31 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 3: we should protest. For example, downtown LA where I currently live, 32 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 3: is where the city Hall is, It's where major police 33 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 3: stations are, It's where we have major landmarks like Hall 34 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 3: of Justice and those places, and many unhoused people congregate 35 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 3: and live near those places. And in the none will 36 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 3: say the best of times, but in the most neutral 37 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 3: of times, they have to be on a tiptoe stands 38 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 3: from being swept because they have to deal with the 39 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 3: sweeps in addition to the unrest that's going on now. 40 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 3: What I have found is that because I live near 41 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 3: an sro, the sleeping has become a difficulty because the 42 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 3: constant helicopters that are swooping through all night, and the 43 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,920 Speaker 3: constant ambulances or the sirens that going on, and the 44 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 3: distance and in front of you, near where you reside, 45 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 3: most recently the projectile shooting of rubber bullets or maybe 46 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 3: real bullets or whatever, or the chance and things of 47 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 3: that that all coomfiity of noise creates an unstable environment 48 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 3: where in the best of times, where people you requires 49 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 3: eight hours sleep and house people may get free to 50 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 3: maybe four hours if at but giving that what's going 51 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 3: on in their peak times where they're trying to sleep, 52 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,239 Speaker 3: they did not. A lot of them during the next 53 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 3: day looked very sleep worn. They looked very exhausted, and 54 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 3: it tells because they don't have a place where they 55 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 3: can just you know, leave. They don't they can't just 56 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 3: jump to in an hotel. It's just it's not reality. 57 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely noticed that, like the noise obviously, like 58 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: I work with audios, so I'm thinking about noise and like, like, 59 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: for instance, I was going around with my podcast recorder 60 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: here right and like constantly having to adjust the levels 61 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,399 Speaker 1: down because the background noise was so like you said, 62 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,279 Speaker 1: they're always helicopters, there's people chanting, the cops are occasionally 63 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: just driving a high speed with siren on. It was 64 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: very noise, and I was thinking about the people who 65 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: are living there and how hard it must be to 66 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: get some rest. And how like, I was speaking to 67 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: one guy who was living down there, probably about noon, 68 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: just walking from Union Station to downtown, and he was saying, 69 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: how like, he lived with anxiety, so he didn't want 70 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: to be present in the protest, but he was supportive 71 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: of his unhoused community members. But I can imagine, you know, 72 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: the anxiety doesn't get any better for him if he's 73 00:03:57,920 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: not sleeping. 74 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 3: Right, they can compounds, yes, and not mentioned the the 75 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 3: frailties of life. Maybe having disabilities or maybe have helped 76 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 3: other health chologists that preclude being able to have a neutral, 77 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 3: a stationary place, And you just can't get up and 78 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 3: go at a moment's notice. You have to require planning 79 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 3: or you know, or then you can get swept up 80 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 3: into the you know, the matrix of the protesters and 81 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 3: get swept along with how they're treating them. So it's 82 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 3: not an easy place to navigate, and it's not a 83 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 3: place as unhoused people. That's just one more obstacle to 84 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 3: a hurdle to overcome and try to just stay above 85 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 3: the frame. 86 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And you can't obviously just leave your stuff 87 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: and you risk losing. 88 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 2: All of it absolutely so. 89 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: One thing that like I have observed extensively is that, 90 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: like in the undocumented community, a lot of people end 91 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: up on house, right, Is that something you've noticed, like 92 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: in your time, like out on the streets and like 93 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: in sro housing. Are there a lot of undocumented people 94 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: this common? 95 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 3: Yes, there is a percentage of undocumented people. Statistics vary 96 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 3: because of the volatility of trying to record someone that's undocumented, 97 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 3: but there are many of them are employed in stay 98 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 3: laborers or low in wage workers that are working in 99 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 3: mom and pop restaurants or creative kind of entrepreneur type 100 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 3: of pursuits in order to survive. One of the things 101 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 3: that has been becoming much more in the four recently, 102 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 3: which why I say the intersections are so important to 103 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 3: understand and the philosophy and the ideology of it, is 104 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 3: that many people that are against a lot of the undocumentation, 105 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 3: violence and things of that nature are not necessarily as 106 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 3: vocal as about the hostility that on house people go through, 107 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 3: or you don't see them on the frontline protesting as 108 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 3: deeply as what's going on today, because when you see swepes, 109 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 3: you don't see many of the protesters out there as 110 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 3: fighting cops and things is speaking out against it. You 111 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 3: don't see them making chance or really making the situation 112 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 3: much more intense and changing. What you do see is 113 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 3: polite conversation or politicians curving the conversation to shape it 114 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 3: in the way that the unhoused person is the bad guy. 115 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 3: They're affecting business, they are going to the bathroom all 116 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 3: over the place. They are not productive citizens and should 117 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 3: be treated usly as violently as possibly they can. Conversely, one, 118 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 3: we don't understand that when we have the undocumented community 119 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 3: that's been targeted, like in San Diego most recently here 120 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 3: and near Whittier, targeting undocumented unhoused people going to sweeps 121 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 3: now and looking for undocumented people, how that plays a 122 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 3: part two and we need the same intensity, we need 123 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 3: the same attention and understanding. Housing is one of the 124 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 3: conversations that we need to have. Compassionate, dignified housing is 125 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 3: the conversation we need to have. And these punitative measures 126 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 3: doesn't work with undocumented people that are housed or maybe 127 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 3: in a position or financial position a little bit more 128 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 3: stabler Evan on house community undocumented people, but the end 129 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 3: result is still the same violence. 130 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, definitely, And like, as you said, there's been 131 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: there have been several instances now that people who are 132 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: unhoused or we actually don't know. I suppose what we 133 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: know is that immigration authorities have attempted to raid shelters 134 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: for unhoused people, right Exactly. I think people sometimes don't 135 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: join the dots on these things, right because they don't 136 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: have either they don't have lived experience or they just 137 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: haven't thought about it deeply. But like, let's break down 138 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: how damaging that is, right, Like, if people who are 139 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: undocumented are afraid to go to shelters, then that means 140 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: that they're not going to be able to access the 141 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: resources that are there, right, Like, do you see that happening? 142 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: Do you see like when they raid shelters people thinking 143 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: I won't go there, or I'm sure you see on 144 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: house people avoiding other things if they think that's going 145 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: to mean an interaction with law enforcement. 146 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 3: Right, But also too, we must break this down even further. 147 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 3: Most on house people want help and services. That's even 148 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 3: undocumented people. And the thing with is they're not taking 149 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 3: anything from the people that pay taxes. But the product 150 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 3: the conversation has been shaped in such a deliterious and 151 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 3: negative fashion that it makes people much more hesitant to 152 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 3: seek out those services. So add on to Trump's harmful 153 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 3: rhetoric and seeing ice roll up. Even if let's say, 154 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 3: for example, they just roll up on there and they're 155 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 3: denied entry, it still sends the message that they are 156 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 3: hunting you down. And most reasonable people that have those 157 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 3: situations is all it takes is someone that agrees with 158 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 3: the negative rhetoric that Trump espouses and that works in 159 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 3: the shelter to step aside and let them come and 160 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 3: start sweeping and documented people and on house people need 161 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,959 Speaker 3: to have the reinsurance and the confidence that they will 162 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 3: hold the line and be able to have safeguards in 163 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 3: place so they can be safely serviced and helped as well. 164 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 3: And I know the conversation is starting to shift in 165 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 3: other places, like in the mutual aid groups, because a 166 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,959 Speaker 3: lot of times mutual aid groups and mutual aid services 167 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 3: are allowing all types of all walks of life for people, 168 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 3: and we are trying to create a safer place where 169 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 3: they can get the services and they don't have to 170 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,079 Speaker 3: worry about it. But it's becoming much more difficult, and 171 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 3: so we are creating safeguards and stop gaps in place 172 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 3: to make it very difficult or Ice to do these 173 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 3: illegal or these harmful type of sweeps. 174 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's really good because it is a concern, 175 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: right even if you're just if you're a mutual aid 176 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: group like our friends at Bread Block, right, like who 177 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: feed people in San Diego. But if you put out 178 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: there that you're going to be feeding people, and then 179 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: ICE know that people are going to gather to receive food, 180 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: that's a new thing you have to worry about, right, 181 00:09:58,520 --> 00:09:59,719 Speaker 1: Like it's a new. 182 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 2: There is another new concern. 183 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 3: There are right wing groups that are in trying to 184 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 3: infiltrate mutual A groups and I do need to say this, 185 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 3: so it's very important. They're infiltrating mutual aid groups in 186 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 3: efforts to aid ICE. And so what they're trying to 187 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 3: do is they befriend mutual eight groups. And there is 188 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 3: a video I saw of this guy stating that he 189 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 3: had worked for immigrants day labors. So he gets them, 190 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,559 Speaker 3: loads them all into the truck and he states he 191 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 3: promises them a job. And this guy's recording them and 192 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 3: their reactions, and you know, they seem to be in 193 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 3: a tranquil very convivial kind of atmosphere, and he drives 194 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 3: up in front of the ICE Administration building and then 195 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 3: yells out for ICE to come get them, and they scatter. 196 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 3: So the second thing that also that's going on is 197 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 3: too that these organizations, these right maggot groups are utilizing 198 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 3: and trying to get personal information from mutual aid groups 199 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 3: and to dock them to other mutual A groups and 200 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 3: to try to target or to harass people that are 201 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,559 Speaker 3: reaching out trying to help the unhoused community or immigrant 202 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 3: community or whatever community did you serve as that are 203 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 3: dealing with undocumented immigrants. 204 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 2: They're doing at as well. 205 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and that harms everyone, right, even documented folks 206 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: who run house to are citizens as we lose those services. Yeah, 207 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: let's take a little break and we're going to come 208 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: back and talk more about this. Okay, all right, we 209 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: are back. One of the things we've spoken about is 210 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: like how undocumented folks often end up on the street, right, 211 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: something I've seen a lot here in San Diego, at least, 212 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: it is undocumented families ending up on the street, right, 213 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: And that can mean that their kids don't get access 214 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: to education. It makes it so much harder for them 215 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: to access services are they and anyone else can access 216 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 1: Maybe you could explain to people, because again I don't 217 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: think that this is something that people consider. But we 218 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 1: spoke about it, right when we spoke about sweeps. Democratic 219 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: governors all around the country and mayors and other legislators 220 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: and executive office people have claimed to be like in 221 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 1: solidarity with migrants, right, they said they stand with their 222 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 1: undocumented community. But at the same time, they have spent 223 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:30,199 Speaker 1: the last decade demonizing the unhoused community and passing laws 224 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: in a state of the case of California, right, that 225 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,679 Speaker 1: make it easy to consign someone to like a mental healthhold, 226 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: just for being on housed, just for not being able 227 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: to make rent. Can you explain how that intersection has 228 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: created a tool for oppression which is now being wielded 229 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: against undocumented people. And as you said to me before 230 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: we recorded, like when we build this oppressive apparatus, it 231 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: can always be wielded against people who we don't think 232 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: it should be wielded against. 233 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 3: Right, Well, that's the very deep question is a question, 234 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 3: and I'm going to try to break apart of it 235 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 3: like a piece of bread in order hopefully to get 236 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 3: the whole meals digested. So let's start off with understanding 237 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 3: how in order for us to be able to criminalize 238 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 3: a human being, we must demonize them. And in order 239 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 3: for us to demonize them, we must create a narrative 240 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 3: that is easily digestible but quick to point out when 241 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 3: we're confronted with our humanity or our empathy or lack thereof. 242 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 3: So when the conversation turns to the un housed community, 243 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 3: for years, there's always has been on house people like 244 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 3: being out there, they're drug addicted, they're mentally ill, they're criminals, 245 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 3: they don't want help, or they don't want services, and 246 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 3: the peelback that layer of onion to explain the nuances 247 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 3: like the services are not equally provided, the services are 248 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 3: not tailored to what the people need, and that conversation 249 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 3: gets lost in the quagmire. Now bringing up into the 250 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 3: four is like we have the conversation of immigration, and 251 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:03,319 Speaker 3: there has been the right wing steady diet of misinformation 252 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 3: or disinformation about a migrant or a documented people getting benefits, 253 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 3: living the life high on the hall, living luxuriously on 254 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 3: a snap or food stamps and other type of benefits, 255 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 3: and hardworking people can't get it, and that is just 256 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 3: simply not true. But it's been fostered to such a 257 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 3: degree that in this administration that we have down with Trump, 258 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 3: he's creating these narratives of MS. 259 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 2: Thirteen is let loose across the country. 260 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 3: They are targeting hardworking people, killing them off, and gang 261 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 3: violence is that are all time high, which is not true. Statistically, 262 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 3: we are at the most downward slope that we've had 263 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 3: in over twenty to thirty years. But the fact of it, 264 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 3: it's sears in people's minds. Who doesn't take the necessary 265 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 3: steps to break down the stereotypes and understand how that 266 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 3: is not true and it's harming, then we have un 267 00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 3: choose this recipe of disinformation, the idea that some people 268 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 3: believe that they are worthy and their immigrants background, and 269 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 3: some are unworthy. Like when I say this statement, and 270 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 3: I always keep saying this, and I've been saying this 271 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 3: for a few years because it's an uncomfortable conversation, is 272 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 3: some people are invested in their own impression. And when 273 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 3: I say this, this is what I mean. Some people, 274 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 3: like for example, in the unhoused community that I had 275 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 3: been unhoused for over eight years, I would hear them 276 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 3: say these kind of statements, and I in the beginning 277 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 3: became uneasy. Then I was like, you know what, I 278 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 3: have to challenge this because this person believes that they 279 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 3: are well and good and they should be helped, and 280 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 3: these other people should not be helped because they are 281 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 3: unworthy on house and that sends off the dog whistle, 282 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 3: and that sends off these justification for people that don't 283 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 3: like on house people anyway to utilize that in the 284 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 3: forefront of their explanation and reasoning in order to continue 285 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 3: to create unitative resources and resolutions. Say, for example, the 286 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 3: San Jose mayor Laurie who is now working to criminal 287 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 3: onhoused people and says that if you turn down services 288 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 3: three times, you go to jail, you are susceptible to 289 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 3: be arrested Jesus, or you could create like in Tennessee 290 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 3: now it is a six year felony to be unhoused 291 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 3: and lodging out in public spaces. It's so easy to 292 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 3: do that people who are housed do not understand it. 293 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 3: Like in Los Angeles, like forty one eighteen is the 294 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 3: new Jim Crow. It is against the law to sit 295 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 3: sleepers lie. We don't talk about enough about Grant's past 296 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 3: which has given police much more leeway, and other cities 297 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 3: has been much more in basically a frenzy on trying 298 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 3: to create the most unitative legislation that they possibly can 299 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 3: against unhoused people. 300 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 2: So these are the end results of this. 301 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 3: So when we start to say it, and I always 302 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 3: say this in my show, if you can't help a person, 303 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 3: don't harm them. 304 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 2: I will add further. 305 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 3: With doctor King says, there's nothing much more dangerous than 306 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 3: sincere ignorance or will for stupidity. 307 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a really it's a really good 308 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: thing way to put it, because like there is so 309 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:08,880 Speaker 1: much I mean, I don't know if it comes out 310 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: of like you say, then source stupidity, but like so 311 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: many of these things actually end up at the same spot, right, 312 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: like increased numbers of people detained, more money for private prisons, 313 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: more money for police, right exactly, Like it shouldn't matter 314 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 1: to us where someone's sleeping, right, we don't want that 315 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: person to go to jail. They haven't done anything wrong. 316 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: And I think it's something that like now it's maybe 317 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: a good time for people to talk about that, right. 318 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 3: And incidentally that's not helping the situation anyway, because once 319 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 3: they got jail. Now they have a criminal record, and 320 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 3: we know how we are against criminals and trying to 321 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 3: find jobs and housing, find housing, So where are they 322 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 3: going to go? So they're going back into the state 323 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,680 Speaker 3: of houselessness and the state of I would say non existence, 324 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 3: but the state of punitative consequences just for being trying 325 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 3: to exist. 326 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then if you know they were misdemeanor, they'll 327 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 1: get another misdemeanor just for living on the street again, 328 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: and then they'll stack misdemeanors and end up with lengthy sentence. 329 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:09,360 Speaker 3: But in the case of Tennessee, that's a felony. It's 330 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 3: not a misdemeanor. It's a six year piece prison sentence. 331 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 3: So let's say, for example, that they find you sleeping 332 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 3: out on the streets and they take you to jail. 333 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 3: Now that you have a six year felony. Now, as 334 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,439 Speaker 3: you know, people that have felonies are it's much more 335 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 3: difficult to find jobs, to vote, and things like that. 336 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 3: To take it to even further, like trying to find housing, 337 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 3: they're filling out housing applications and the acts. If you've 338 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 3: been charged with a felony, they have to put that there. 339 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 3: Trying to find housing. You know, what's the odds that 340 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,719 Speaker 3: they're going to get housing charge being on house? So 341 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 3: we need to look at these things and says, why 342 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 3: is it that our major knee jerk reaction is always 343 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 3: going to penalize poor people? 344 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 2: Because this is what this boils down to. 345 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 3: They have they have not the idea in order to 346 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 3: keep poor people set upon other poor people is believe 347 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 3: that they're deserving better treatment than other poor people that 348 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 3: look like for them, and the okay with how they're 349 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 3: being treated, in the faith into the delusion that they 350 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 3: won't be affected by it. 351 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I think it's a good point that like 352 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: this deserving the good migrant bag, myrant, deserving poor and 353 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 1: deserving poor, like, all that does is it justifies violence 354 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: against whoever it is stigmatizing, and like we should just 355 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: I guess say pretty like in case people aren't aware, 356 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: I guess like when we look at Robert Paxton's book 357 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: The Anatomia of Fascism, Paxton talks about the motivating passions 358 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: of fascism, and one of them is this idea that 359 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 1: there is a scapegroat group which is to blame for 360 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: decline and like, yes, we can see the Trump administration 361 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: doing that with migrants. We can see democratic mayors blaming 362 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: unhoused people for the decline of their cities, right, for 363 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 1: their failure to manage budgets, for their inability to do 364 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: anything other than send a fire hose of money to 365 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: the cops. Right, it's completely endemic. I know in San 366 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: Diego told Gloria loves to demonize onnhouse people, right, and 367 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,479 Speaker 1: he has done for years. And you know we're now 368 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 1: in a state where we're closing down our libraries for 369 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,719 Speaker 1: more time, make it even harder for people to access services. 370 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 1: A place where people can access the internet. If you 371 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: want to make that housing application, now you can't go 372 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: to the library one more day we can do it. 373 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: It's like these two things are like different heads of 374 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: the same hydra. 375 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,880 Speaker 3: I guess let me point out to like, for example, 376 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 3: when I was on the streets as well. The library 377 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 3: is a lifeline for many reasons. And we have a 378 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 3: heat wave, many on house people go to the library 379 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 3: to stay cool. When we have a store storm, a rainstorm, 380 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 3: many onhouse people goes there. Many on house people unfortunately 381 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 3: use it as a burd bad place because they don't 382 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 3: want to smell bad. Despite society opinion, they'll offer enough 383 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 3: free showers or places where and house people can safely shower, 384 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,679 Speaker 3: get their things laundered in a way. So they have 385 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 3: to create solutions in order to survive and sustain themselves 386 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,199 Speaker 3: in their lives. So the library is more than just 387 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 3: supplying the books and reading and in housing application, it 388 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 3: is a lifeline in many respects where on house people 389 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 3: can be able to tether on to a semblance of normalcy, 390 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 3: if you will. 391 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. It's another thing that I noticed, actually is 392 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 1: I was walking around downtown LA. It's something I noticed 393 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: here in San Diego there are not accessible bathrooms for 394 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 1: people exactly, right, and maybe other people, Like if you've 395 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,640 Speaker 1: been out in the streets in LA or wherever you live, 396 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: you might have noticed this too, Right, Like, I was 397 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: very lucky a resident of downtown let me into their 398 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,640 Speaker 1: house so they could use a bathroom. But like, this 399 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: is a city with millions of people, with billions of 400 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: dollars in budget. Right, the cops had five helicopters. I 401 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,239 Speaker 1: refuse to believe that it's not possible for them to 402 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 1: create a place for people to use the bathroom safely. 403 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 3: And therein lies a conundrum is that people with the 404 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 3: demanding restrooms and the city says that they can't financially 405 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 3: sustain them, or they utilize every reason in the world 406 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 3: to discourage a believe it's going to discourage a bottle 407 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 3: functions from unhoused people, which is ridiculous because we're still 408 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 3: going to have to go to the restroom no matter 409 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 3: we're living in the street or earn a home. That's 410 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 3: one universal equity that's never going to change. And the 411 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 3: thing most importantly of it is is that I have 412 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 3: a story that I tell about my own experience with it. 413 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 3: During the pandemic, I had broken my leg and I 414 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 3: had it was on a walker and everything shut down. 415 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 3: There were no public porter parties, there were no bathrooms, 416 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 3: and the only way I could get to a bathroom 417 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 3: that at the time that was open was Starbucks. So 418 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 3: and Starbucks was like almost a half a mile away, 419 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 3: so I had to hobble there and they wouldn't let 420 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 3: me in because they were because I was on house 421 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 3: and they felt that I was going to take a 422 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 3: bath into the bathroom and I just needed to use 423 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 3: the restroom. And this hurdle is another hurdle that many 424 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 3: unhouse people have to go through, which is why they 425 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 3: use libraries, which is why they use public facilities. But 426 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,640 Speaker 3: let's say, for example, Union Station, they do liberately goal 427 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 3: and shut off. They have like five stalls, and then 428 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,919 Speaker 3: they shut off the other bathroom and lock that up, 429 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 3: and they'll lock the other bathroom down the other part 430 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 3: of the Union station. 431 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 2: Union Station is a busy place. 432 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 3: Why it makes no sense that this constant, less, punitative, 433 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 3: this insided or illogical viewpoint that's being ruled over to 434 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 3: the city and it runs over, it spills over in 435 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 3: every way possible. That makes it very clear to be 436 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 3: poor is the most horrible thing in the world. 437 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody, take another break here and then we're going 438 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: to come back and finish up. Okay, way are back, 439 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 1: so what I want to finish up with. And I 440 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: think it's always a good thing when folks are out 441 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,199 Speaker 1: in the street, right, Like I guess not always, but 442 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: I don't really in support people being out in the street. 443 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: There are people who are out in the street and 444 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 1: they're realizing that things are worse than they thought. Right. 445 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:01,479 Speaker 1: There are a lot of people who have gone out 446 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: in the street this week thinking that they had a 447 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,159 Speaker 1: First Amendment right to protest and being tear gased or 448 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: shot with rubber bullets. And maybe they haven't been in 449 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,439 Speaker 1: areas where they see unhoused people right, or they've been 450 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: managed to sort of remain ignoring the scale of the problem, 451 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: and now they're realizing how bad things are and they 452 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 1: want to help. How do they do that in a 453 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: way that it's respectful and in a way that doesn't 454 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,679 Speaker 1: harm someone while trying to help them? Do you think, like, 455 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 1: where should they start that process? 456 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 3: Not to self andngrandize myself, but I have a podcast 457 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 3: that I've created when I lived on the street, which 458 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 3: is called Weedy and House And in that conversation from 459 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 3: there's a bevy of episodes that talk about these very 460 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 3: same issues. One the understanding of empathy. The second thing 461 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 3: is to be educated on the realities and the differences 462 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 3: of unhoused community members, the nuances, how to approach unhouse people, 463 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 3: how to sustain a relationship with unhoused people, and how 464 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 3: to create a mutual aid or a group of people 465 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,360 Speaker 3: that come in and check in on unhoused people in 466 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 3: order for them to help shepherd them along the realities 467 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 3: of houselessness. 468 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 2: Many people have many skills in many groups. 469 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 3: That's when I find with Mutual Aid and they're able 470 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,239 Speaker 3: to tap into those skills in order to get some 471 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 3: unhoused people some services, some help, some notice, some pressure 472 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 3: to get places or get them placed or in the 473 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 3: hospital or whatever it is they need. The first step 474 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 3: is to, you know, listen in on some of the episodes, 475 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 3: hear their stories and understand their stories. I always asks 476 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 3: on house people, what is the best way for us 477 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 3: to help you? Because what would help me being on 478 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 3: house is very different than what a mother that's up 479 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 3: to that's fleeing domestic abuse. There's a lot of things 480 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 3: that I cannot foresee that she has to foresee for 481 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 3: the safety and life and her life and her children's life. 482 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 3: And so she would have different other solutions that would 483 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 3: not fit my solution or my way of helping me. 484 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 3: And we must understand houselessness is not monolith. It is 485 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,120 Speaker 3: very layered many reasons why people are on the streets, 486 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 3: from political to being burned out on the system, and 487 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 3: to just trying to survive day to day. 488 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's a really good answer toly like, 489 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: it's not something you can just as you say, it's 490 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: not a monolith. It's not something that where everyone is 491 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: the same, certainly, like my experience with un house neighbors 492 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 1: that I have and then undocumented on house folks. You know, 493 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: everyone has different concerns, right, Everyone has different needs, even 494 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: little things like I remember trying to help a family 495 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: and you know they had come to the US from 496 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,400 Speaker 1: Venezuela and they had different food preferences, just just shit 497 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 1: like that. If you can make someone more comfortable just 498 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,640 Speaker 1: by asking it so much, it's so much easier to do. 499 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: I wonder, like you've been downtown the last few nights, 500 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: Like it's rough, right, it's traumatizing, Like do you see 501 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: people expressing solidarity with unhoused people? Like do you see 502 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: because there is a feeling of it can be very 503 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: ice relating that there can also be like at times 504 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: I've said this before a lot, but like I feel 505 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: very taken care of because I see strangers feeding each other. 506 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: I see strangers washing each other's eyes out. I see 507 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 1: people just taking care of each other, if each other 508 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 1: in small ways, bringing water, bringing food. Do you feel 509 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: like the unhoused community is being shown that same care 510 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: and affection like during these protests, I have not. 511 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 2: Seen it in this instance. 512 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 3: I noticed that we were in the George Floyd protest, 513 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 3: there was more of an awakening about the unhoused communities 514 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 3: because they kept inhabiting and they started to do that. Definitely, 515 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 3: I will like to believe that that has continued to 516 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 3: spill over. I noticed sometimes when the protests of what's 517 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 3: going on in Palestine, many Palestine or protesters will walk 518 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 3: past the Mutual Aid stations. Some would stop and say something, 519 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 3: or some would just keep right on going. 520 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 2: Again. 521 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 3: I think it's one of the things one of the 522 00:27:55,400 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 3: narrative's successes of the right wing narratives is to late 523 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 3: and house people, make sure that's their issue is completely different. 524 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,400 Speaker 3: And to that way, you can be able to continue 525 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,679 Speaker 3: to demonize and criminalize and house people with the respect 526 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 3: the people that are waving the gods are flag or 527 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 3: waving flags of Mexico. They can feel safe in the 528 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 3: delusion that they're safe. And these people are then nereword 529 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 3: Wells and we are not. We are we are legitimately 530 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 3: fighting for freedom and house people are just fighting just 531 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 3: to get their next hit, you know. 532 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: So yeah, and I think until we realize all our 533 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,199 Speaker 1: struggles are connected, like we we wait, you know, this 534 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: is very clearly something that neoliberalism has done right, Like 535 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: it's pursued identity politics in a way that doesn't lift 536 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: people up so much as it splits them apart, and 537 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: it stops us seeing all our struggles are connected. See 538 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: is there anything else you wanted to share with people 539 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: before we before we wrap up today. 540 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 3: I think we covered the long and short of it. 541 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 3: You know, it's yeah, we can. This is just a 542 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 3: primer on some of the insights. Yes, it's a very 543 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 3: fluid situation. There's going to be new insights and new 544 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 3: observations as this protest unravels and we will get to 545 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 3: see what this administration what next harm that they're going 546 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 3: to do to vulnerable people. 547 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. 548 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: If people want to follow your podcast or follow you elsewhere, 549 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: where can they find you? 550 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 3: They can find me on iHeartMedia, on they can find 551 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 3: me on where they find that podcast. I'm on iHeart Apples, Spotify, Amazon, 552 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 3: anywhere you find your podcast. 553 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 2: I'm there. 554 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: Great. Thank you so much for your time, south Mentha, 555 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 1: that was a great conversation. 556 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,959 Speaker 2: Thank you, and hopefully we'll meet again in a light 557 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 2: of understanding. Jeez, thank you. It could happen. Here is 558 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 2: a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from 559 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 2: Cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or 560 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 2: check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever. 561 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 3: You listen to podcasts, you can now find sources for 562 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 3: It could happen here listened directly in episode descriptions. 563 00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.