Speaker 1: Also media.
Speaker 2: Hi everyone, and welcome to the show. It's me James
Speaker 2: today and I'm very lucky to be joined again by
Speaker 2: Eric Mesa, who's the Borderlands coordinator for the Sierra Club.
Speaker 1: Eric.
Speaker 2: How are you doing.
Speaker 1: I'm doing okay, James, Thanks for much for the invitation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for joining us. Sadly we don't have
Speaker 2: a lot of good stuff to talk about right now.
Speaker 2: It's a pretty difficult time in the borderlands. But maybe
Speaker 2: we could start off with something that I've reported on
Speaker 2: briefly in our weekly news show. The Border Patrol is
Speaker 2: currently soliciting comment for its plans to build border wall
Speaker 2: through the Outi Mountain Wilderness and other areas west of Takati. Right,
Speaker 2: could you explain a little bit about what they're proposing
Speaker 2: and what the consequences of that will be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, hi, everybody, so happy to be here and
Speaker 1: not so happy to be sharing these news, but so
Speaker 1: what the announcement was recently by the Border patron Role,
Speaker 1: especially on the San Diego area, is the announcement of
Speaker 1: the approximately nine point seven miles of new border barrier
Speaker 1: system and on top of that, over fifty one miles
Speaker 1: of what they call now system attributes, and this is
Speaker 1: going to cabaccuge impact on the area. This is going
Speaker 1: to be about two point nine miles west of the
Speaker 1: the Cultil part of entry, going through an area that
Speaker 1: it is very remote mountain region, and some of people
Speaker 1: here in this are more familiar than I am. I've
Speaker 1: actually never been, but I've been talking to some of
Speaker 1: the local organizations, the do humanitarian eight in the region,
Speaker 1: and I know the Takaate Peak is in that area,
Speaker 1: and then you start going west into these beautiful mountains
Speaker 1: that are also the birthplace of the Tijuana River. That's
Speaker 1: exactly with the area where it's going to go. So
Speaker 1: right now, CVPS accepting comments and asking people in the
Speaker 1: community what kind of concerns do they have concerns in
Speaker 1: regards of the environmental impacts of a project like this,
Speaker 1: what kind of social and economical impacts? So they open
Speaker 1: up this section on their website with an email address
Speaker 1: where people can share some of these concerns. As you mentioned,
Speaker 1: and part of an environmental organization, but we also have
Speaker 1: all kinds of concerns for a project like this, including
Speaker 1: the border barrier and the system attributes which are very
Speaker 1: poorly described what they mean. Some of the things that
Speaker 1: they mentioned as system attributes is the increase of lighting, infrastructure,
Speaker 1: surveillance equipment, and new roads for access for border patrol vehicles.
Speaker 1: So one of the things that we're going to expect
Speaker 1: that we have seen in other areas is more blasting
Speaker 1: through the mountain, especially on areas where the mountains is
Speaker 1: so uneven the terrain, there is a lot of heavy
Speaker 1: machinery it has to come into those places to start
Speaker 1: bulldozing to level the terrain so they can start building
Speaker 1: this border wall. So we can expect some of that,
Speaker 1: and with that come a lot of issues because there's
Speaker 1: going to be the need to start drilling wells at
Speaker 1: the border to extract the water from mixing the concrete
Speaker 1: for the foundation. If there was any road out there,
Speaker 1: they're going to probably widen the road two or three
Speaker 1: times to allow this. Having machinery to access these remote areas.
Speaker 1: This is just going to be the beginning, just setting
Speaker 1: up the panels. But whenever you go to these places
Speaker 1: and start disturbing the native soil, you can expect all
Speaker 1: kinds of consequences in regards of invasive species of plants.
Speaker 1: You can also expect so floating and removal of native vegetation.
Speaker 1: In some cases, there is some species that are rare
Speaker 1: on the area that having these impacts you know, can
Speaker 1: be long lasting for them to be able to recover
Speaker 1: if they're able to do so. The area on the
Speaker 1: south side of the border there is also an area
Speaker 1: where animals need to be moving back on course, so
Speaker 1: species like the native meal deer a colony that lives there.
Speaker 1: There is a mountain lion and other species of mammals
Speaker 1: and pretty much everything that is four inches wide that
Speaker 1: it's not going to be able to make it through
Speaker 1: that border. Well, so yeah, we're just raising these concerns
Speaker 1: and sharing with the community so they're able to also
Speaker 1: as well, and an email to CVP, Customs and Border
Speaker 1: patrow and express these concerns and also to remember that
Speaker 1: these areas have been sacred sized for the indigenous communities
Speaker 1: in Diamond Memorial, so we might lose some very sacred
Speaker 1: sides for the dribes forever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I know the topic Ta Kat Mountain has
Speaker 2: been sacred to Kumii people. I believe it's Chuma in Kumii,
Speaker 2: but it's been sacred to them for as you say,
Speaker 2: much longer than this has been the United States.
Speaker 1: That's correct.
Speaker 2: You and I have both seen it in different places.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: The damage that the border will does not just to people.
Speaker 2: I've seen mule deer running along it like trying. They're
Speaker 2: clearly trying to find a way through, right, this is
Speaker 2: their habitual pathway. There are some areas near, very very
Speaker 2: near the border, like within one hundred yards of the border,
Speaker 2: where there are naturally occurring creeks and little ponds which
Speaker 2: will hold water at a time when water can be
Speaker 2: very hard to come across here. And so I've seen
Speaker 2: deer kind of distraught almost trying to get to this
Speaker 2: place where they've obviously learned that they can get water,
Speaker 2: but now they can't. It's really heartbreaking on top of
Speaker 2: all the other cruelty that it does. I suppose we
Speaker 2: should address it, like I'm not sure how much we
Speaker 2: can accomplish by the comment period, right, but it has
Speaker 2: value nonetheless, like trying to do something I think has value.
Speaker 2: It shows that we didn't let this just happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. I honestly am not very hopeful from
Speaker 1: these common periods because this is not the first time
Speaker 1: they're asking the community to provide input and with past
Speaker 1: experiences that we have organized in other areas, other segments
Speaker 1: of the world, even in other states, we haven't got
Speaker 1: a response even or an acknowledgment of these concerns. So
Speaker 1: Dalva itself is really concerning. But I think it is
Speaker 1: important that the communities around these areas are aware about
Speaker 1: this and they get involved, and that there is this
Speaker 1: community sentiment against this abuse of power that the administration
Speaker 1: continues to do and borderlands and using them as the
Speaker 1: sacrifice zone, as these testing grounds for what can potentially
Speaker 1: continue to happen or expand, not only on the border
Speaker 1: but in all our series, like we are seeing with
Speaker 1: the span of militarization nowadays.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, like all the stuff that is really bad
Speaker 2: in America right now, like it started at the border.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 2: People are seeing it in their communities now, but like
Speaker 2: we've been seeing it where we live for a long time.
Speaker 2: Can we talk a little bit about there's been some
Speaker 2: other construction right then, with San Diego is not the
Speaker 2: only place right now that there's a significant budgetary allocation
Speaker 2: to construction a border barrier, and there's more construction east
Speaker 2: of San Diego.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's that's right. Most of the construction that
Speaker 1: is happening right now. It was with all funding there
Speaker 1: was from the twenty twenty one funds that were available
Speaker 1: think the first Rump administration, So we were hoping that
Speaker 1: that was going to be like the end of the funding.
Speaker 1: But since the proposal and passing of the quote beautiful bill,
Speaker 1: we've got to remind ourselves that now the administration has
Speaker 1: allocated forty six point five billion dollars for border security,
Speaker 1: and that includes border barriers and system attributes, so pretty
Speaker 1: much anything related to border security right now they have
Speaker 1: the funding to do it. They pretty much have the
Speaker 1: funding to put a double wall across the whole US
Speaker 1: Mexico border. Yeah, so that's that's huge. You know, in
Speaker 1: recent days, we got a new wave of contracts that
Speaker 1: were awarded. In October ten, we got this announcement that
Speaker 1: out of this funding, the forty six point five billion,
Speaker 1: they are located for a little bit over four billion,
Speaker 1: and this will fund them two hundred and thirty miles
Speaker 1: of new physical barriers and four hundred miles of surveillance
Speaker 1: technology across the US Mexico border from California New Texas.
Speaker 1: That's and they put up a new section on their
Speaker 1: website where there is a map you can navigate. It's
Speaker 1: an interactive map that shows every single section of the
Speaker 1: border and what they're planning to do with it. And
Speaker 1: as surreal as it sounds, they are planning to double
Speaker 1: up the wall. So in some places, in remote areas
Speaker 1: in the desert, like in organ Pipe National Monument or
Speaker 1: Cavesaprieta in Arizona and those areas, there is plans to
Speaker 1: build a secondary wall. So on top of the thirty
Speaker 1: food barrier that they have, they're planning to do a
Speaker 1: second one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have that in Sanni Sedil, Right, we have
Speaker 2: a double thirty foot barrier.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The Pipe administration used it to corral people seeking asylum.
Speaker 2: Right that they kept them in between the two walls
Speaker 2: and then denied that they were in detention. I don't
Speaker 2: know if we'll see that again, but like I guess
Speaker 2: just from my own experience, you know, participating in mutilid
Speaker 2: along the border, like those remote desert areas are where
Speaker 2: people go when we build wall in Otai, right, when
Speaker 2: we continue to detain and turn people back in less
Speaker 2: remote areas, they will take the risk of going to
Speaker 2: a more remote area and forcing people into those remote
Speaker 2: areas and then constructing barriers there too. It's just going
Speaker 2: to cause more deaths. It's not going to stop people
Speaker 2: trying to come because there are things that they are
Speaker 2: leaving which are terrible, but it will mean that they
Speaker 2: get stuck out there in the heat without water for longer.
Speaker 1: Right, that's correct, James, So exactly what you said people
Speaker 1: in San Diego, like the border in Otai, you don't
Speaker 1: really have the double wall, so you know, like having
Speaker 1: these hypermarketinglit area and how that is going to expand
Speaker 1: and the consequences of that is, as you mentioned, you
Speaker 1: push people out further more remote areas, and two things
Speaker 1: happen by doing that. First and most important, more people die.
Speaker 1: But also remember that these areas, like these remote areas,
Speaker 1: were also like semi pristine wildlife environments that you never
Speaker 1: had humans moving through before. Now, as people have been
Speaker 1: pushed to these remote areas, you have this human traffic
Speaker 1: and not only migrants moving through, but you also have
Speaker 1: the border patrol chase and these migrants, and now you
Speaker 1: have border patrol wanting to build new roads to these
Speaker 1: wilderness areas, and all of these just gives building up
Speaker 1: into what's already a very fragmented landscape. So by adding
Speaker 1: all these quote unquote system attributes, because you're pushing and
Speaker 1: pushing people further and building these double walls, it's just
Speaker 1: going and the laws of the remaining wildlife remote migration
Speaker 1: corridors as well. So the impacts that this is going
Speaker 1: to have are huge.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for like all living creatures. As you said,
Speaker 2: let's take a break, Eric, we'll come back and talk
Speaker 2: about it some more. All right, we are back. Let's
Speaker 2: talk about like how people are organizing right like at
Speaker 2: this time when it does seem really bleak at the borderlands,
Speaker 2: Like the Trump administration didn't really construct very much war
Speaker 2: in its first iteration. It did construct a bit, but
Speaker 2: not as much as it wanted to. And you and
Speaker 2: I are both very familiar with the consequences that has had,
Speaker 2: right like, it has caused more people to die. The
Speaker 2: Biden administration continued constructing and quote unquote repairing border back areas.
Speaker 2: They also pioneered outdoor attention, and like, it just seems
Speaker 2: like things with whoever gets elected, but more rapidly and
Speaker 2: Republicans get worse. What are people able to do? When
Speaker 2: we've talked about this a lot on this show, but
Speaker 2: I'd love to hear your perspective too.
Speaker 1: It's been hard, honestly as a person working on environmental
Speaker 1: issues in the border because definitely, like the loses are
Speaker 1: much more than the wind sometimes, so that can be
Speaker 1: dishard paying. Yeah, but there has been some glimpses of hope.
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that we did here
Speaker 1: in Arizona that was definitely felt really good and gave
Speaker 1: us some hope is when the governor of Arizona decided
Speaker 1: to put some chipping containers and make its own makeshift war. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So a bunch of people really came together on the
Speaker 1: community outrage because this was just some really dumb idea
Speaker 1: and one of the most remote, beautiful areas where there
Speaker 1: is not even people moving through and then it's just
Speaker 1: going to destroy the environment. And the governor went out
Speaker 1: there and spent two hundred million dollars of taxpayers money
Speaker 1: to buy these shipping containers and build this border wall.
Speaker 1: So we were actually all the community came together. We
Speaker 1: showed up out there in desert and stop the machines
Speaker 1: and we said no, you're not going to move any further.
Speaker 1: And because what they were doing was actually illegal, we
Speaker 1: were able to get away with it, and those shipping
Speaker 1: containers are gone right now. Still Arizona taxpayer paid two
Speaker 1: hundred million dollars to destroy their own environment. Just let
Speaker 1: that thinking we can be using that money for much
Speaker 1: better things. So I think that president and that movement,
Speaker 1: that sense of community that was built after that resistance,
Speaker 1: it has continued after that, Like there is a lot
Speaker 1: of self organized grassroots efforts going on for border resistance,
Speaker 1: you know, and that encompasses humanitarian groups, environmental groups, and
Speaker 1: we are also organizing nowadays here in Arizona to do
Speaker 1: some direct action and try to show up to the
Speaker 1: Central pel Valley which is where the border construction is going.
Speaker 1: And it started raising some national attention to this issue,
Speaker 1: trying to invite our politicians, start invited our native communities
Speaker 1: to speak out and using different metals such as art performance,
Speaker 1: bring up some different strategies together. You know, now with
Speaker 1: the technology that we have availables, like how can we
Speaker 1: make these more mainstream and tell people across the nation
Speaker 1: what's going on and built remote areas. You know a
Speaker 1: lot of people a lot of connection to this valley
Speaker 1: and this is the heavy waters of the Santa Cluz
Speaker 1: river lifeblood of many communities across the southern Arizona. And
Speaker 1: at the same time, on the other side of the coin,
Speaker 1: you know, there is all this oppression by the government
Speaker 1: to anything that is against their will, so a lot
Speaker 1: of people feel a little bit afraid of showing up
Speaker 1: to direct action. Yeah, so it is it's just walking
Speaker 1: that fine line of how what can we get away
Speaker 1: with and still be able to make a bold statement
Speaker 1: and show opposition without putting people in danger.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I think there is something a lot of
Speaker 2: people are really worried about. But it is important within
Speaker 2: the realm of things that we can do to show
Speaker 2: our opposition to this and to stand in solidarity with
Speaker 2: the animals and the indigenous people whose sacred spaces are
Speaker 2: being defiled right and with migrants whose lives are being
Speaker 2: put in danger by this. I wonder, like, I find
Speaker 2: it so strange. I guess that like we're at a
Speaker 2: time when reporting on migration is becoming like like a
Speaker 2: major growth industry. I guess, editors who I could not
Speaker 2: get to respond to an email or pick up the
Speaker 2: phone for the last four years and now commissioning pieces
Speaker 2: on migration, but there still seems to be like a
Speaker 2: blind spot about the border in the American news media.
Speaker 2: I don't know why that is. I don't know if
Speaker 2: you have ideas about why there is. But the Borderlands
Speaker 2: are such a special place for me anyway, you know,
Speaker 2: I've spent nearly twenty years of my life here. Some
Speaker 2: of my favorite places in the world are near the border.
Speaker 2: I think people think of the border as like Sentaisgital,
Speaker 2: but it contains some wonderfully remote and special places. And
Speaker 2: I wonder if you have thoughts on why, Like, the
Speaker 2: border isn't something that gets talked about that much on
Speaker 2: a national level.
Speaker 1: I think it does talk about, but unfortunately the narrative
Speaker 1: that is usually built around it is really negative. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's fair, and of course that's with that intention, right,
Speaker 1: you know, continue to build up this militarized state or
Speaker 1: sacrifice zone. And so whenever I talk with people that
Speaker 1: is here for the first time, you know, I do
Speaker 1: these group presentations for delegations that come from all over
Speaker 1: the country to experience the Borderlands region, and they're like,
Speaker 1: they have all these perspective, you know, for what they
Speaker 1: hear on the news about how horrible this is, and
Speaker 1: then they come here and they're like wow, people here
Speaker 1: is like really nice and we have a great experience,
Speaker 1: and I really inspire and it's like coming with these
Speaker 1: prefabricated narrative on their minds of this wasteland sacrifice one,
Speaker 1: you know, and then going out after experience and yes,
Speaker 1: some of that of course, if you go out to
Speaker 1: the to the border and experience the wall and the
Speaker 1: rolls and rolls of concerts in a wired and make
Speaker 1: it look like you're in a war zone. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: plows what you already have in your mind, you know,
Speaker 1: just keeps building up the intensity. And then you hear
Speaker 1: the stories from people, the struggle from migrants and stories
Speaker 1: from back in twenty twenty three when we have the
Speaker 1: search of migrants coming and all these things, you know,
Speaker 1: but at the end people leaves with glimps also like wow,
Speaker 1: this place is really beautiful and a lot of wonderful
Speaker 1: things are happening, a lot of movements of people trying
Speaker 1: to organize and make it a bit better place and
Speaker 1: trying really hard to shift this narrative. You know. The
Speaker 1: Bordlands provide us a good opportunity, you know, because what
Speaker 1: we see today, like a friend of mine said, you
Speaker 1: can get worse, and it's going into that direction. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's going into that direction. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: it gives us an opportunity as a society, you know,
Speaker 1: because whatever happens at the border is definitely going to
Speaker 1: have a ripple effect in the rest of the country.
Speaker 1: So we are able to figure out a way to
Speaker 1: shift that narrative and look at the border like people
Speaker 1: that lives and experience the borderer and the culture of
Speaker 1: the beautiful things that the border has to offer. Then
Speaker 1: we hope that that's going to help change a lot
Speaker 1: of the things that are happening in this country, you know,
Speaker 1: but we need to start I think organizing from the
Speaker 1: bottom up. Yeah, a lot of grass exfore need to
Speaker 1: be happening, and I think a lot of media and
Speaker 1: needs to cover this. You know, we usually don't cover
Speaker 1: the good stories, so yeah, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2: Like it's funny that the Right does cover the body
Speaker 2: or right or the the you know, the Fox News
Speaker 2: kind of Cardra does cover the border. Like I don't
Speaker 2: like the way they cover it. But like the only
Speaker 2: national network guy I will see down there is the
Speaker 2: Fox guy. For the most part, I don't one thing
Speaker 2: I like to do with my friends, or like if
Speaker 2: someone comes to visit, you know, sometimes I have other
Speaker 2: independent journalists come visit, to walk down to the border wall,
Speaker 2: and it seems very bleak, right because there's this big
Speaker 2: wall and it's covered in Constantina way, as you say,
Speaker 2: and maybe they're Marines or National Guard or Border patrol
Speaker 2: or any other leg it's people with guns right in
Speaker 2: different uniforms. But then if you turn around, you're in
Speaker 2: this really special place where you don't see the people.
Speaker 2: You just you can appreciate how beautiful it is. It's
Speaker 2: also very beautiful that, like you say, there's so much
Speaker 2: bottom up organizing, that there's so much people helping people
Speaker 2: of all different kinds. And that's something we also are
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three, when Title forty two ended and
Speaker 2: subsequently the Biden administration detained people outdoors, like we saw
Speaker 2: an incredible community response of all different kinds of people
Speaker 2: of different political persuasions, different faith groups, which was a
Speaker 2: really beautiful thing. Like it's a thing that a lot
Speaker 2: of the rest of America right now could learn from
Speaker 2: the government was brutalizing people, and people made that less bad.
Speaker 2: They kept them safe, and they'd been a lot more
Speaker 2: people who didn't make it throughout all attention if it
Speaker 2: wasn't for community support, Like I want people to see that.
Speaker 2: I wonder if people want to support, right, let's say
Speaker 2: they're not in the border lands, can you think of
Speaker 2: good ways for them to be in solidarity, for them
Speaker 2: to even to experience like I know a lot of
Speaker 2: people who listen to this have come, Like, it's really
Speaker 2: wonderful for me to meet people when I'm not working,
Speaker 2: when I'm just out there in my capacity with someone
Speaker 2: who cares about other people, right, doing water drops, doing
Speaker 2: mutilate with migrants, or helping people at street release. To
Speaker 2: hear people who listen to this and then decided to
Speaker 2: come from wherever they were and spend some time here
Speaker 2: and help, Like, that's a really a special thing. But
Speaker 2: you have other ideas on how people can be in
Speaker 2: solidarity and can come and help.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, I get this question very often from different
Speaker 1: people that comes to bas here. Yeah. I usually recommend
Speaker 1: people to start where they are, you know, in their
Speaker 1: own communities, because there is recollection of the border issues
Speaker 1: in your own community. There are people that are migrating
Speaker 1: that are mind need some help. There are people that
Speaker 1: show theres and all this, or just kind of like
Speaker 1: get involved with your local whatever you're passionate about. You know,
Speaker 1: it doesn't really have to be an environmental issue, but
Speaker 1: we are, remember and social justice and environmental justice is
Speaker 1: the same thing. Yeah, you know, we really like whatever
Speaker 1: you're passionate about, just getting involved. But I think the
Speaker 1: worst thing that we can do right now is just
Speaker 1: doing are the fact that we are in a bad spot.
Speaker 1: You know. I think a lot of people just want
Speaker 1: to continue writing their comport song wave and it's that's
Speaker 1: gonna end, you know. And I think we need to
Speaker 1: not only think about ourselves, but we need to think
Speaker 1: about the generations coming ahead of us. And I think
Speaker 1: it's especially for the people that us already had the
Speaker 1: opportunity to somehow live a life, you know, but there
Speaker 1: are somes that are about to start the journey, and
Speaker 1: I think it's our responsibilit you do make it the
Speaker 1: best as we can for them as well. So whatever
Speaker 1: you're passionate about, and if you really want to and
Speaker 1: you're passionate about order related issues and you're not able
Speaker 1: to come, try to support, you know, like financial help
Speaker 1: is you know, we like it or not, We are
Speaker 1: in a capitalist society and we move with financial support. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So a lot of these events that we're creating, a
Speaker 1: lot of these outreach that we're doing a lot of
Speaker 1: the people like new generations that need jobs, that are
Speaker 1: wanting to join like let maybe a non profit work
Speaker 1: or create their own movement or doing something related that's
Speaker 1: going to help the community. Yeah, support those if you
Speaker 1: are able. Those are really good ways to get involved
Speaker 1: and make them change.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, Like there's a lot of things you can do,
Speaker 2: if you say, and I think it does help to
Speaker 2: build that networks of caring for people everywhere. Like we
Speaker 2: want to live in a world where people take care
Speaker 2: of one another. To do that, we have to start everywhere.
Speaker 2: It's not that the border is the any place where
Speaker 2: bad things are happening.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: We draw a lot of strengths as people who live
Speaker 2: at the border from that solidarity, but also from seeing
Speaker 2: people do their own things wherever they're at. Like that
Speaker 2: is how we build a world where systems of oppression
Speaker 2: of let's able to oppress people.
Speaker 3: So yeah, and one of the things we see here
Speaker 3: most of the decisions taken for the border are not
Speaker 3: taken by people from the border a lot of these
Speaker 3: big all these decisions, Like for example, Senator of Utah
Speaker 3: right now is putting up a bill for the border
Speaker 3: to sacrifice a lot of public lands for new roads
Speaker 3: and like new military installations.
Speaker 1: So it's like people from Utah are not directly on
Speaker 1: the border, but yeah, they can also send letters and
Speaker 1: comments or both these senators out, you know, and somebody
Speaker 1: that really cares for the environment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if if you're in Utah, your senator has been
Speaker 2: advocating to sell off the public lands that you own
Speaker 2: that are said, I mean their native land. It's all
Speaker 2: native land and it should be returned to its original custodians.
Speaker 2: But in the meantime, you own it and at least
Speaker 2: all of us can access it until Mike Lee gets
Speaker 2: his chance to sell it all off to his buddies
Speaker 2: in real estate. And like, you could be an extremely
Speaker 2: conservative person and we could disagree on a lot of shit,
Speaker 2: and I think we could find unity on that. Like,
Speaker 2: I do not understand how there is a constituency that
Speaker 2: wants to take land from the public domain and turn
Speaker 2: it into a military basis and oil fields and McMansions
Speaker 2: for rich people to have as their second home, like
Speaker 2: that should be. It's a thing that everyone agrees on
Speaker 2: and like he didn't stick the landing on it the
Speaker 2: first time in the reconciliation the quote unquote big beautiful bill.
Speaker 2: But I think that's a really good area toween gage people,
Speaker 2: folks who might not be like, yeah, I will show
Speaker 2: up for migrants. I think a lot of people. They
Speaker 2: could be people who in where the outdoors, people who
Speaker 2: just care about the environment, the Hook and Bullet crowd, like,
Speaker 2: there are a lot of people even if they don't
Speaker 2: quote unquote use public lands, like we all benefit from
Speaker 2: being there and future generation to benefit from them remaining
Speaker 2: un developed in a substantial way.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I just went off, And when that guy really
Speaker 2: pissed me off. Shit makes me so mad. Coming from
Speaker 2: a country that is entirely private land, it is to
Speaker 2: see someone being like, yeah, that's a good idea. It's
Speaker 2: just fucking asenoine.
Speaker 1: Eric.
Speaker 2: I wonder if people want to keep up with the
Speaker 2: Sierra Club, keep up with like how they can submit
Speaker 2: opposition comments if they want to know more about this
Speaker 2: new border construction and the impact would have. Where can
Speaker 2: they follow along? Is there a website or social media.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Sam's thanks to you. Yeah, we do have all
Speaker 1: of it. We've tried to engage people where they are,
Speaker 1: and we know social media is a powerful tool. We
Speaker 1: have a website Circle border Lands. People can look up
Speaker 1: some of the work that we do there. We are
Speaker 1: also active on social media. We are Fair Club Borderlands.
Speaker 1: However you look at it, you're going to find find us.
Speaker 1: We're based out of Arizona, but we do organize in
Speaker 1: different states, so we're in collaboration with all organizations as
Speaker 1: part of a larger coalition. So even if you are
Speaker 1: in Texas or New Mexico, feel free to rech out
Speaker 1: and if you have any concerns, ideas, things that come
Speaker 1: up to your mind that you can make the border
Speaker 1: of airplace feel free for a feel free to reach out.
Speaker 1: Then we can collaborate work together on this or least
Speaker 1: connect you with some of the local people that are
Speaker 1: part of the network. Because we're always looking to make
Speaker 1: this network bigger. You know, I think there's strengthing numbers.
Speaker 1: We're going to get more and more people to join
Speaker 1: this coalition. Yeah, in the different states. So even if
Speaker 1: you're on the border sites, if you're in d C
Speaker 1: and you're do a lobbying and you're into all these
Speaker 1: change but yeah, come come reach out and you can
Speaker 1: find us like a central website or we got an
Speaker 1: Instagram account. We also have like a grassroots middle air
Speaker 1: fort right now called Rally for the Valley, and that's
Speaker 1: what we're trying to do for the Sandra Fhile Valley
Speaker 1: over there. You're going to be able to find updates.
Speaker 1: And we created a decentralized website right now there is
Speaker 1: called Border Wall Resistance. I invite everybody to take a
Speaker 1: look at it. It's full of beautiful pictures of the border.
Speaker 1: When James and I were talking about how beautiful this
Speaker 1: place is, go to that website and you understand what
Speaker 1: we're talking about because it's all girds. You know, the
Speaker 1: border is so unique on each area. You know, the
Speaker 1: border it's not defined, but Juana San Diego or no Gallets,
Speaker 1: you know, it is just two thousand miles of wonderlands,
Speaker 1: so unfortunately separated by in many cases, but this huge
Speaker 1: metal food structure.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Anyways, so that's the website, the social media for Cerra
Speaker 1: Club Borderlands and Graduty for the Ballet and the Border Resistance.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely reach out. You if you recently found out
Speaker 2: that you live within a border enforcement zone and weren't
Speaker 2: aware of that, Because I know a lot of people
Speaker 2: in Chicago and other places have very recently found out
Speaker 2: that as far as the state is concerned, that they
Speaker 2: too are in the borderlands. It would be good to
Speaker 2: build some solidarity there.
Speaker 1: Traving two terms of the population of these country lives
Speaker 1: on the borderland sage and so because that includes coastlines
Speaker 1: and the Great Lakes Great Lakes, so we're talking about
Speaker 1: a lot of communities.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you very much for your time, Eric, We
Speaker 2: really appreciate it. It was a good discussion.
Speaker 1: Thank you, James, and hoping that continue to be in
Speaker 1: touch and continue organizing against all this. Thanks and thanks
Speaker 1: so much for the space, and thanks for all of
Speaker 1: you listener. Yeah, you're welcome. It Could Happen Here is
Speaker 1: a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from
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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.