1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: Also media. 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 2: Hi everyone, and welcome to the show. It's me James 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 2: today and I'm very lucky to be joined again by 4 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 2: Eric Mesa, who's the Borderlands coordinator for the Sierra Club. 5 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: Eric. 6 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 2: How are you doing. 7 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: I'm doing okay, James, Thanks for much for the invitation. 8 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for joining us. Sadly we don't have 9 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 2: a lot of good stuff to talk about right now. 10 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 2: It's a pretty difficult time in the borderlands. But maybe 11 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 2: we could start off with something that I've reported on 12 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 2: briefly in our weekly news show. The Border Patrol is 13 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 2: currently soliciting comment for its plans to build border wall 14 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 2: through the Outi Mountain Wilderness and other areas west of Takati. Right, 15 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 2: could you explain a little bit about what they're proposing 16 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 2: and what the consequences of that will be. 17 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, hi, everybody, so happy to be here and 18 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: not so happy to be sharing these news, but so 19 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: what the announcement was recently by the Border patron Role, 20 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: especially on the San Diego area, is the announcement of 21 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: the approximately nine point seven miles of new border barrier 22 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: system and on top of that, over fifty one miles 23 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: of what they call now system attributes, and this is 24 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: going to cabaccuge impact on the area. This is going 25 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: to be about two point nine miles west of the 26 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: the Cultil part of entry, going through an area that 27 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: it is very remote mountain region, and some of people 28 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: here in this are more familiar than I am. I've 29 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: actually never been, but I've been talking to some of 30 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: the local organizations, the do humanitarian eight in the region, 31 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: and I know the Takaate Peak is in that area, 32 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: and then you start going west into these beautiful mountains 33 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:59,559 Speaker 1: that are also the birthplace of the Tijuana River. That's 34 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: exactly with the area where it's going to go. So 35 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: right now, CVPS accepting comments and asking people in the 36 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: community what kind of concerns do they have concerns in 37 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: regards of the environmental impacts of a project like this, 38 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: what kind of social and economical impacts? So they open 39 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: up this section on their website with an email address 40 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: where people can share some of these concerns. As you mentioned, 41 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: and part of an environmental organization, but we also have 42 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: all kinds of concerns for a project like this, including 43 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 1: the border barrier and the system attributes which are very 44 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: poorly described what they mean. Some of the things that 45 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:49,119 Speaker 1: they mentioned as system attributes is the increase of lighting, infrastructure, 46 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: surveillance equipment, and new roads for access for border patrol vehicles. 47 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: So one of the things that we're going to expect 48 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: that we have seen in other areas is more blasting 49 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: through the mountain, especially on areas where the mountains is 50 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: so uneven the terrain, there is a lot of heavy 51 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,239 Speaker 1: machinery it has to come into those places to start 52 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: bulldozing to level the terrain so they can start building 53 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: this border wall. So we can expect some of that, 54 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 1: and with that come a lot of issues because there's 55 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,839 Speaker 1: going to be the need to start drilling wells at 56 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 1: the border to extract the water from mixing the concrete 57 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: for the foundation. If there was any road out there, 58 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: they're going to probably widen the road two or three 59 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: times to allow this. Having machinery to access these remote areas. 60 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: This is just going to be the beginning, just setting 61 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: up the panels. But whenever you go to these places 62 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: and start disturbing the native soil, you can expect all 63 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: kinds of consequences in regards of invasive species of plants. 64 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: You can also expect so floating and removal of native vegetation. 65 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: In some cases, there is some species that are rare 66 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: on the area that having these impacts you know, can 67 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,239 Speaker 1: be long lasting for them to be able to recover 68 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: if they're able to do so. The area on the 69 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 1: south side of the border there is also an area 70 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: where animals need to be moving back on course, so 71 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: species like the native meal deer a colony that lives there. 72 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: There is a mountain lion and other species of mammals 73 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: and pretty much everything that is four inches wide that 74 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: it's not going to be able to make it through 75 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: that border. Well, so yeah, we're just raising these concerns 76 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: and sharing with the community so they're able to also 77 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 1: as well, and an email to CVP, Customs and Border 78 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 1: patrow and express these concerns and also to remember that 79 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: these areas have been sacred sized for the indigenous communities 80 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: in Diamond Memorial, so we might lose some very sacred 81 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: sides for the dribes forever. 82 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I know the topic Ta Kat Mountain has 83 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 2: been sacred to Kumii people. I believe it's Chuma in Kumii, 84 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 2: but it's been sacred to them for as you say, 85 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,239 Speaker 2: much longer than this has been the United States. 86 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: That's correct. 87 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 2: You and I have both seen it in different places. 88 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 1: Right. 89 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 2: The damage that the border will does not just to people. 90 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 2: I've seen mule deer running along it like trying. They're 91 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 2: clearly trying to find a way through, right, this is 92 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 2: their habitual pathway. There are some areas near, very very 93 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 2: near the border, like within one hundred yards of the border, 94 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 2: where there are naturally occurring creeks and little ponds which 95 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 2: will hold water at a time when water can be 96 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 2: very hard to come across here. And so I've seen 97 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 2: deer kind of distraught almost trying to get to this 98 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 2: place where they've obviously learned that they can get water, 99 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 2: but now they can't. It's really heartbreaking on top of 100 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 2: all the other cruelty that it does. I suppose we 101 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 2: should address it, like I'm not sure how much we 102 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 2: can accomplish by the comment period, right, but it has 103 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 2: value nonetheless, like trying to do something I think has value. 104 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 2: It shows that we didn't let this just happen. 105 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. I honestly am not very hopeful from 106 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: these common periods because this is not the first time 107 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 1: they're asking the community to provide input and with past 108 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: experiences that we have organized in other areas, other segments 109 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: of the world, even in other states, we haven't got 110 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 1: a response even or an acknowledgment of these concerns. So 111 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: Dalva itself is really concerning. But I think it is 112 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: important that the communities around these areas are aware about 113 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: this and they get involved, and that there is this 114 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 1: community sentiment against this abuse of power that the administration 115 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 1: continues to do and borderlands and using them as the 116 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 1: sacrifice zone, as these testing grounds for what can potentially 117 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: continue to happen or expand, not only on the border 118 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: but in all our series, like we are seeing with 119 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: the span of militarization nowadays. 120 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, like all the stuff that is really bad 121 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 2: in America right now, like it started at the border. 122 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: That's right. 123 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 2: People are seeing it in their communities now, but like 124 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 2: we've been seeing it where we live for a long time. 125 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 2: Can we talk a little bit about there's been some 126 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 2: other construction right then, with San Diego is not the 127 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 2: only place right now that there's a significant budgetary allocation 128 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 2: to construction a border barrier, and there's more construction east 129 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 2: of San Diego. 130 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's that's right. Most of the construction that 131 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: is happening right now. It was with all funding there 132 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: was from the twenty twenty one funds that were available 133 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: think the first Rump administration, So we were hoping that 134 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: that was going to be like the end of the funding. 135 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: But since the proposal and passing of the quote beautiful bill, 136 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: we've got to remind ourselves that now the administration has 137 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: allocated forty six point five billion dollars for border security, 138 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: and that includes border barriers and system attributes, so pretty 139 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: much anything related to border security right now they have 140 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: the funding to do it. They pretty much have the 141 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: funding to put a double wall across the whole US 142 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: Mexico border. Yeah, so that's that's huge. You know, in 143 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: recent days, we got a new wave of contracts that 144 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: were awarded. In October ten, we got this announcement that 145 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: out of this funding, the forty six point five billion, 146 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: they are located for a little bit over four billion, 147 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: and this will fund them two hundred and thirty miles 148 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: of new physical barriers and four hundred miles of surveillance 149 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: technology across the US Mexico border from California New Texas. 150 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: That's and they put up a new section on their 151 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 1: website where there is a map you can navigate. It's 152 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: an interactive map that shows every single section of the 153 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: border and what they're planning to do with it. And 154 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: as surreal as it sounds, they are planning to double 155 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: up the wall. So in some places, in remote areas 156 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: in the desert, like in organ Pipe National Monument or 157 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: Cavesaprieta in Arizona and those areas, there is plans to 158 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: build a secondary wall. So on top of the thirty 159 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: food barrier that they have, they're planning to do a 160 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: second one. 161 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, we have that in Sanni Sedil, Right, we have 162 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 2: a double thirty foot barrier. 163 00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. 164 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 2: The Pipe administration used it to corral people seeking asylum. 165 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 2: Right that they kept them in between the two walls 166 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 2: and then denied that they were in detention. I don't 167 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 2: know if we'll see that again, but like I guess 168 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 2: just from my own experience, you know, participating in mutilid 169 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 2: along the border, like those remote desert areas are where 170 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 2: people go when we build wall in Otai, right, when 171 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 2: we continue to detain and turn people back in less 172 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 2: remote areas, they will take the risk of going to 173 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 2: a more remote area and forcing people into those remote 174 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 2: areas and then constructing barriers there too. It's just going 175 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 2: to cause more deaths. It's not going to stop people 176 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 2: trying to come because there are things that they are 177 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 2: leaving which are terrible, but it will mean that they 178 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 2: get stuck out there in the heat without water for longer. 179 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 1: Right, that's correct, James, So exactly what you said people 180 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: in San Diego, like the border in Otai, you don't 181 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: really have the double wall, so you know, like having 182 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: these hypermarketinglit area and how that is going to expand 183 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: and the consequences of that is, as you mentioned, you 184 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: push people out further more remote areas, and two things 185 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: happen by doing that. First and most important, more people die. 186 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: But also remember that these areas, like these remote areas, 187 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: were also like semi pristine wildlife environments that you never 188 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: had humans moving through before. Now, as people have been 189 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: pushed to these remote areas, you have this human traffic 190 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: and not only migrants moving through, but you also have 191 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: the border patrol chase and these migrants, and now you 192 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 1: have border patrol wanting to build new roads to these 193 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:45,199 Speaker 1: wilderness areas, and all of these just gives building up 194 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: into what's already a very fragmented landscape. So by adding 195 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: all these quote unquote system attributes, because you're pushing and 196 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: pushing people further and building these double walls, it's just 197 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: going and the laws of the remaining wildlife remote migration 198 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 1: corridors as well. So the impacts that this is going 199 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: to have are huge. 200 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for like all living creatures. As you said, 201 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 2: let's take a break, Eric, we'll come back and talk 202 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 2: about it some more. All right, we are back. Let's 203 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:36,679 Speaker 2: talk about like how people are organizing right like at 204 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,439 Speaker 2: this time when it does seem really bleak at the borderlands, 205 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 2: Like the Trump administration didn't really construct very much war 206 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 2: in its first iteration. It did construct a bit, but 207 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 2: not as much as it wanted to. And you and 208 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 2: I are both very familiar with the consequences that has had, 209 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 2: right like, it has caused more people to die. The 210 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 2: Biden administration continued constructing and quote unquote repairing border back areas. 211 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 2: They also pioneered outdoor attention, and like, it just seems 212 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 2: like things with whoever gets elected, but more rapidly and 213 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:12,959 Speaker 2: Republicans get worse. What are people able to do? When 214 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 2: we've talked about this a lot on this show, but 215 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 2: I'd love to hear your perspective too. 216 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 1: It's been hard, honestly as a person working on environmental 217 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: issues in the border because definitely, like the loses are 218 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: much more than the wind sometimes, so that can be 219 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: dishard paying. Yeah, but there has been some glimpses of hope. 220 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: I think one of the things that we did here 221 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: in Arizona that was definitely felt really good and gave 222 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: us some hope is when the governor of Arizona decided 223 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: to put some chipping containers and make its own makeshift war. Yeah. 224 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: So a bunch of people really came together on the 225 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: community outrage because this was just some really dumb idea 226 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: and one of the most remote, beautiful areas where there 227 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: is not even people moving through and then it's just 228 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 1: going to destroy the environment. And the governor went out 229 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:16,199 Speaker 1: there and spent two hundred million dollars of taxpayers money 230 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: to buy these shipping containers and build this border wall. 231 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: So we were actually all the community came together. We 232 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: showed up out there in desert and stop the machines 233 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: and we said no, you're not going to move any further. 234 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: And because what they were doing was actually illegal, we 235 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: were able to get away with it, and those shipping 236 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: containers are gone right now. Still Arizona taxpayer paid two 237 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: hundred million dollars to destroy their own environment. Just let 238 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: that thinking we can be using that money for much 239 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: better things. So I think that president and that movement, 240 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:04,479 Speaker 1: that sense of community that was built after that resistance, 241 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: it has continued after that, Like there is a lot 242 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: of self organized grassroots efforts going on for border resistance, 243 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: you know, and that encompasses humanitarian groups, environmental groups, and 244 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: we are also organizing nowadays here in Arizona to do 245 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: some direct action and try to show up to the 246 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: Central pel Valley which is where the border construction is going. 247 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: And it started raising some national attention to this issue, 248 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: trying to invite our politicians, start invited our native communities 249 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: to speak out and using different metals such as art performance, 250 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: bring up some different strategies together. You know, now with 251 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: the technology that we have availables, like how can we 252 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: make these more mainstream and tell people across the nation 253 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: what's going on and built remote areas. You know a 254 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: lot of people a lot of connection to this valley 255 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: and this is the heavy waters of the Santa Cluz 256 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: river lifeblood of many communities across the southern Arizona. And 257 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: at the same time, on the other side of the coin, 258 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: you know, there is all this oppression by the government 259 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: to anything that is against their will, so a lot 260 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: of people feel a little bit afraid of showing up 261 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: to direct action. Yeah, so it is it's just walking 262 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: that fine line of how what can we get away 263 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: with and still be able to make a bold statement 264 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: and show opposition without putting people in danger. 265 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I think there is something a lot of 266 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 2: people are really worried about. But it is important within 267 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 2: the realm of things that we can do to show 268 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 2: our opposition to this and to stand in solidarity with 269 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 2: the animals and the indigenous people whose sacred spaces are 270 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 2: being defiled right and with migrants whose lives are being 271 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 2: put in danger by this. I wonder, like, I find 272 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 2: it so strange. I guess that like we're at a 273 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 2: time when reporting on migration is becoming like like a 274 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 2: major growth industry. I guess, editors who I could not 275 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 2: get to respond to an email or pick up the 276 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 2: phone for the last four years and now commissioning pieces 277 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,120 Speaker 2: on migration, but there still seems to be like a 278 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 2: blind spot about the border in the American news media. 279 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 2: I don't know why that is. I don't know if 280 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,159 Speaker 2: you have ideas about why there is. But the Borderlands 281 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 2: are such a special place for me anyway, you know, 282 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 2: I've spent nearly twenty years of my life here. Some 283 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 2: of my favorite places in the world are near the border. 284 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 2: I think people think of the border as like Sentaisgital, 285 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 2: but it contains some wonderfully remote and special places. And 286 00:17:56,119 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 2: I wonder if you have thoughts on why, Like, the 287 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 2: border isn't something that gets talked about that much on 288 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 2: a national level. 289 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 1: I think it does talk about, but unfortunately the narrative 290 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: that is usually built around it is really negative. Yeah, 291 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 1: that's fair, and of course that's with that intention, right, 292 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: you know, continue to build up this militarized state or 293 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,919 Speaker 1: sacrifice zone. And so whenever I talk with people that 294 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 1: is here for the first time, you know, I do 295 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: these group presentations for delegations that come from all over 296 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: the country to experience the Borderlands region, and they're like, 297 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: they have all these perspective, you know, for what they 298 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: hear on the news about how horrible this is, and 299 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: then they come here and they're like wow, people here 300 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: is like really nice and we have a great experience, 301 00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: and I really inspire and it's like coming with these 302 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: prefabricated narrative on their minds of this wasteland sacrifice one, 303 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: you know, and then going out after experience and yes, 304 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: some of that of course, if you go out to 305 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: the to the border and experience the wall and the 306 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 1: rolls and rolls of concerts in a wired and make 307 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: it look like you're in a war zone. Yeah, the 308 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: plows what you already have in your mind, you know, 309 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: just keeps building up the intensity. And then you hear 310 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 1: the stories from people, the struggle from migrants and stories 311 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 1: from back in twenty twenty three when we have the 312 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: search of migrants coming and all these things, you know, 313 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: but at the end people leaves with glimps also like wow, 314 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: this place is really beautiful and a lot of wonderful 315 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: things are happening, a lot of movements of people trying 316 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: to organize and make it a bit better place and 317 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: trying really hard to shift this narrative. You know. The 318 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 1: Bordlands provide us a good opportunity, you know, because what 319 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: we see today, like a friend of mine said, you 320 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: can get worse, and it's going into that direction. Yeah, yeah, 321 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 1: it's going into that direction. But at the same time, 322 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: it gives us an opportunity as a society, you know, 323 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: because whatever happens at the border is definitely going to 324 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: have a ripple effect in the rest of the country. 325 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: So we are able to figure out a way to 326 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 1: shift that narrative and look at the border like people 327 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 1: that lives and experience the borderer and the culture of 328 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: the beautiful things that the border has to offer. Then 329 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 1: we hope that that's going to help change a lot 330 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: of the things that are happening in this country, you know, 331 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: but we need to start I think organizing from the 332 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,199 Speaker 1: bottom up. Yeah, a lot of grass exfore need to 333 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: be happening, and I think a lot of media and 334 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: needs to cover this. You know, we usually don't cover 335 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: the good stories, so yeah, yeah, you're right. 336 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 2: Like it's funny that the Right does cover the body 337 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 2: or right or the the you know, the Fox News 338 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 2: kind of Cardra does cover the border. Like I don't 339 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 2: like the way they cover it. But like the only 340 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 2: national network guy I will see down there is the 341 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 2: Fox guy. For the most part, I don't one thing 342 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 2: I like to do with my friends, or like if 343 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 2: someone comes to visit, you know, sometimes I have other 344 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 2: independent journalists come visit, to walk down to the border wall, 345 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 2: and it seems very bleak, right because there's this big 346 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 2: wall and it's covered in Constantina way, as you say, 347 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 2: and maybe they're Marines or National Guard or Border patrol 348 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 2: or any other leg it's people with guns right in 349 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,919 Speaker 2: different uniforms. But then if you turn around, you're in 350 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 2: this really special place where you don't see the people. 351 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 2: You just you can appreciate how beautiful it is. It's 352 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 2: also very beautiful that, like you say, there's so much 353 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 2: bottom up organizing, that there's so much people helping people 354 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,439 Speaker 2: of all different kinds. And that's something we also are 355 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three, when Title forty two ended and 356 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 2: subsequently the Biden administration detained people outdoors, like we saw 357 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 2: an incredible community response of all different kinds of people 358 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 2: of different political persuasions, different faith groups, which was a 359 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 2: really beautiful thing. Like it's a thing that a lot 360 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 2: of the rest of America right now could learn from 361 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 2: the government was brutalizing people, and people made that less bad. 362 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 2: They kept them safe, and they'd been a lot more 363 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:46,959 Speaker 2: people who didn't make it throughout all attention if it 364 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 2: wasn't for community support, Like I want people to see that. 365 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 2: I wonder if people want to support, right, let's say 366 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,919 Speaker 2: they're not in the border lands, can you think of 367 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 2: good ways for them to be in solidarity, for them 368 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 2: to even to experience like I know a lot of 369 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 2: people who listen to this have come, Like, it's really 370 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:10,199 Speaker 2: wonderful for me to meet people when I'm not working, 371 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 2: when I'm just out there in my capacity with someone 372 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 2: who cares about other people, right, doing water drops, doing 373 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,679 Speaker 2: mutilate with migrants, or helping people at street release. To 374 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 2: hear people who listen to this and then decided to 375 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 2: come from wherever they were and spend some time here 376 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 2: and help, Like, that's a really a special thing. But 377 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 2: you have other ideas on how people can be in 378 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 2: solidarity and can come and help. 379 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, I get this question very often from different 380 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 1: people that comes to bas here. Yeah. I usually recommend 381 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: people to start where they are, you know, in their 382 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: own communities, because there is recollection of the border issues 383 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: in your own community. There are people that are migrating 384 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: that are mind need some help. There are people that 385 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: show theres and all this, or just kind of like 386 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: get involved with your local whatever you're passionate about. You know, 387 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: it doesn't really have to be an environmental issue, but 388 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 1: we are, remember and social justice and environmental justice is 389 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: the same thing. Yeah, you know, we really like whatever 390 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: you're passionate about, just getting involved. But I think the 391 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: worst thing that we can do right now is just 392 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: doing are the fact that we are in a bad spot. 393 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: You know. I think a lot of people just want 394 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 1: to continue writing their comport song wave and it's that's 395 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: gonna end, you know. And I think we need to 396 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 1: not only think about ourselves, but we need to think 397 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: about the generations coming ahead of us. And I think 398 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: it's especially for the people that us already had the 399 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 1: opportunity to somehow live a life, you know, but there 400 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: are somes that are about to start the journey, and 401 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: I think it's our responsibilit you do make it the 402 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: best as we can for them as well. So whatever 403 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: you're passionate about, and if you really want to and 404 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 1: you're passionate about order related issues and you're not able 405 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: to come, try to support, you know, like financial help 406 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: is you know, we like it or not, We are 407 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: in a capitalist society and we move with financial support. Yeah, 408 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: So a lot of these events that we're creating, a 409 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,360 Speaker 1: lot of these outreach that we're doing a lot of 410 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: the people like new generations that need jobs, that are 411 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: wanting to join like let maybe a non profit work 412 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: or create their own movement or doing something related that's 413 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: going to help the community. Yeah, support those if you 414 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: are able. Those are really good ways to get involved 415 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 1: and make them change. 416 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, Like there's a lot of things you can do, 417 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 2: if you say, and I think it does help to 418 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 2: build that networks of caring for people everywhere. Like we 419 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 2: want to live in a world where people take care 420 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 2: of one another. To do that, we have to start everywhere. 421 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 2: It's not that the border is the any place where 422 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 2: bad things are happening. 423 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 1: I know. 424 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,239 Speaker 2: We draw a lot of strengths as people who live 425 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,719 Speaker 2: at the border from that solidarity, but also from seeing 426 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 2: people do their own things wherever they're at. Like that 427 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 2: is how we build a world where systems of oppression 428 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 2: of let's able to oppress people. 429 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 3: So yeah, and one of the things we see here 430 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 3: most of the decisions taken for the border are not 431 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 3: taken by people from the border a lot of these 432 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 3: big all these decisions, Like for example, Senator of Utah 433 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 3: right now is putting up a bill for the border 434 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 3: to sacrifice a lot of public lands for new roads 435 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 3: and like new military installations. 436 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: So it's like people from Utah are not directly on 437 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: the border, but yeah, they can also send letters and 438 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 1: comments or both these senators out, you know, and somebody 439 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: that really cares for the environment. 440 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, if if you're in Utah, your senator has been 441 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 2: advocating to sell off the public lands that you own 442 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 2: that are said, I mean their native land. It's all 443 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 2: native land and it should be returned to its original custodians. 444 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 2: But in the meantime, you own it and at least 445 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 2: all of us can access it until Mike Lee gets 446 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 2: his chance to sell it all off to his buddies 447 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 2: in real estate. And like, you could be an extremely 448 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 2: conservative person and we could disagree on a lot of shit, 449 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 2: and I think we could find unity on that. Like, 450 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 2: I do not understand how there is a constituency that 451 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 2: wants to take land from the public domain and turn 452 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 2: it into a military basis and oil fields and McMansions 453 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 2: for rich people to have as their second home, like 454 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 2: that should be. It's a thing that everyone agrees on 455 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 2: and like he didn't stick the landing on it the 456 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 2: first time in the reconciliation the quote unquote big beautiful bill. 457 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 2: But I think that's a really good area toween gage people, 458 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 2: folks who might not be like, yeah, I will show 459 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 2: up for migrants. I think a lot of people. They 460 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 2: could be people who in where the outdoors, people who 461 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 2: just care about the environment, the Hook and Bullet crowd, like, 462 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 2: there are a lot of people even if they don't 463 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 2: quote unquote use public lands, like we all benefit from 464 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 2: being there and future generation to benefit from them remaining 465 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,400 Speaker 2: un developed in a substantial way. 466 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 1: That's right. 467 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 2: Sorry, I just went off, And when that guy really 468 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 2: pissed me off. Shit makes me so mad. Coming from 469 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 2: a country that is entirely private land, it is to 470 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 2: see someone being like, yeah, that's a good idea. It's 471 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 2: just fucking asenoine. 472 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: Eric. 473 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 2: I wonder if people want to keep up with the 474 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 2: Sierra Club, keep up with like how they can submit 475 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 2: opposition comments if they want to know more about this 476 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,719 Speaker 2: new border construction and the impact would have. Where can 477 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 2: they follow along? Is there a website or social media. 478 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, Sam's thanks to you. Yeah, we do have all 479 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: of it. We've tried to engage people where they are, 480 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: and we know social media is a powerful tool. We 481 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: have a website Circle border Lands. People can look up 482 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: some of the work that we do there. We are 483 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:06,959 Speaker 1: also active on social media. We are Fair Club Borderlands. 484 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: However you look at it, you're going to find find us. 485 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: We're based out of Arizona, but we do organize in 486 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: different states, so we're in collaboration with all organizations as 487 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: part of a larger coalition. So even if you are 488 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: in Texas or New Mexico, feel free to rech out 489 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: and if you have any concerns, ideas, things that come 490 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: up to your mind that you can make the border 491 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: of airplace feel free for a feel free to reach out. 492 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: Then we can collaborate work together on this or least 493 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: connect you with some of the local people that are 494 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: part of the network. Because we're always looking to make 495 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: this network bigger. You know, I think there's strengthing numbers. 496 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: We're going to get more and more people to join 497 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: this coalition. Yeah, in the different states. So even if 498 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: you're on the border sites, if you're in d C 499 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: and you're do a lobbying and you're into all these 500 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: change but yeah, come come reach out and you can 501 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: find us like a central website or we got an 502 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: Instagram account. We also have like a grassroots middle air 503 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: fort right now called Rally for the Valley, and that's 504 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: what we're trying to do for the Sandra Fhile Valley 505 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: over there. You're going to be able to find updates. 506 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: And we created a decentralized website right now there is 507 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,719 Speaker 1: called Border Wall Resistance. I invite everybody to take a 508 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 1: look at it. It's full of beautiful pictures of the border. 509 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: When James and I were talking about how beautiful this 510 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: place is, go to that website and you understand what 511 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: we're talking about because it's all girds. You know, the 512 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: border is so unique on each area. You know, the 513 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: border it's not defined, but Juana San Diego or no Gallets, 514 00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 1: you know, it is just two thousand miles of wonderlands, 515 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: so unfortunately separated by in many cases, but this huge 516 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: metal food structure. 517 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. 518 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: Anyways, so that's the website, the social media for Cerra 519 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 1: Club Borderlands and Graduty for the Ballet and the Border Resistance. 520 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely reach out. You if you recently found out 521 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 2: that you live within a border enforcement zone and weren't 522 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 2: aware of that, Because I know a lot of people 523 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 2: in Chicago and other places have very recently found out 524 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 2: that as far as the state is concerned, that they 525 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 2: too are in the borderlands. It would be good to 526 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 2: build some solidarity there. 527 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: Traving two terms of the population of these country lives 528 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: on the borderland sage and so because that includes coastlines 529 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: and the Great Lakes Great Lakes, so we're talking about 530 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: a lot of communities. 531 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 2: Well, thank you very much for your time, Eric, We 532 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 2: really appreciate it. It was a good discussion. 533 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: Thank you, James, and hoping that continue to be in 534 00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: touch and continue organizing against all this. Thanks and thanks 535 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: so much for the space, and thanks for all of 536 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: you listener. Yeah, you're welcome. It Could Happen Here is 537 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from 538 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonmedia dot com, or 539 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 540 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find sources 541 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: for It Could Happen here listed directly in episode descriptions. 542 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.