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Speaker 1: Then there's this next level that we're all striving to

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Speaker 1: get someone to lean into, and that's the deep love

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Speaker 1: for it, right to keep love for it. So it

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Speaker 1: goes from Hey, I'm really good against it's an identity, Jo,

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Speaker 1: I'm deeply in love with us, and I want to

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Speaker 1: pursue excellence. I want to pursue mastering. This is the

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Speaker 1: Reformed Sports Project, a podcast about restoring healthy balance and

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Speaker 1: perspective in all areas of sports through education and advocacy. Hi,

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Speaker 1: this is Nick Bonacoort from the Reformed Sports Project podcast. Today,

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Speaker 1: I'm speaking with Tom Ryan had wrestling coach at Ohio

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Speaker 1: State University. Coach Ryan lad the buck Eyes to their

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Speaker 1: first ever team n c A championship victory in two

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Speaker 1: thousand fifteen and was named n c A Head Coach

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Speaker 1: of the Year in both two thousand nine and two

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Speaker 1: thousand fifteen. Prior to taking over the Ohio State program,

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Speaker 1: Tom coached at Hofstra University, where you help guide the

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Speaker 1: Pride the six consecutive conference titles dur ring his tenure.

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Speaker 1: Coach Ryan and I discussed the qualities that stand out

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Speaker 1: in multi sport athletes, the importance of developing a deep

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Speaker 1: love for the sport and how suffering is part of

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Speaker 1: the growth process. Super pumped to have them had wrestling

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Speaker 1: coach at Ohio State University, coach Tom Ryan. Coach Man

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Speaker 1: pump to have you, sir, Yes, sir, you know we're

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Speaker 1: talking youth sports and athletic development, and where I'd love

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Speaker 1: to start with this coach is, uh, you know, I

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Speaker 1: know that your father four times over, and you know

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Speaker 1: you've been coaching at the highest level and we're at

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Speaker 1: a different time right last probably twenty years. It seems like,

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Speaker 1: you know, people don't sign their kids up to wrestle,

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Speaker 1: play baseball, football anymore for the experience at six years old.

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Speaker 1: It's like I'm signing you up here at six and

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Speaker 1: this is the first step towards going to wrestle for

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Speaker 1: coach Ryan in Ohio State like we are, We're this

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Speaker 1: is it and in order to get there, the ideas

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Speaker 1: you gotta specialize. You've gotta specialize early, which means forget

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Speaker 1: about seasonal sports. That's gonna hold you back. Because I

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Speaker 1: want to ask you, what are your thoughts on early

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Speaker 1: sports specialization verse kids, particularly at the younger ages, sampling

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Speaker 1: and playing multiple sports. Well, I guess I can just

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Speaker 1: share from the experiences that I've had as head coach

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Speaker 1: at Hofstra, head coach Ohio State. You know, so I've

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Speaker 1: got almost thirty years in the in the in the

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Speaker 1: sport industry, and I would say that when I my assess, uh,

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Speaker 1: some of the almost all of the elite level student

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Speaker 1: athletes I've coached, nearly all of them were multiple sport athletes, right,

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Speaker 1: so that's up to two thousand and twenty. You look

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Speaker 1: at someone like Kyle Snyder, that one an Olympic gold medal,

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Speaker 1: Logan Sieber, four time n C Double A champion, uh,

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Speaker 1: Miles Martin, Michael Piscillo, Lance Paumer, A lot of these

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Speaker 1: guys did just played multiple sports. Um, and and personally

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Speaker 1: for me as well as uh, you know, my my

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Speaker 1: youth experience was a great experience. Uh. And that was

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Speaker 1: in all the sports. I played all the all the

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Speaker 1: popular sports. And then I started to run cross country

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Speaker 1: and played soccer and baseball and dabbled football, lacrosse. But

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Speaker 1: there came a time for me and for all of

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Speaker 1: these guys, and it wasn't when they were young. For

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Speaker 1: all of these guys, I think I think for Kyle,

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Speaker 1: I think Kyle played one game his senior year, his

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Speaker 1: junior in high school and football. Logan played linebacker all

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Speaker 1: the way through high school Ohio football, and he was

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Speaker 1: a small guy. So I think in general, I'm all

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Speaker 1: for um the broad based experience. What is it about

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Speaker 1: you know you could talk about? And I never wrestled

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Speaker 1: day in my life. I don't want to. I don't

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Speaker 1: even want to say I wish I had, because I'm

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Speaker 1: not tough enough at all. Um My oldest boys wrestle.

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Speaker 1: I think it's the most incredible sport I've ever seen

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Speaker 1: in my life. I think it's amazing, and I think

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Speaker 1: it translates to every other sport, not just from the

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Speaker 1: physical aspect, but the mental. What are things that you

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Speaker 1: see that stanned out to you With someone that has

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Speaker 1: that multi sport background, A lot of coaches will have

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Speaker 1: to bring up the competitiveness that comes out. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I would say that. I mean, there are there are

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Speaker 1: certainly right success leaves clues, and there are certainly some

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Speaker 1: traits that you know, if I stacked up uh, the

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Speaker 1: best wrestlers I've ever been around, and you know, attracted

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Speaker 1: the qualities and the traits they have, There's no question

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Speaker 1: that there are some that stand out above. One is

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Speaker 1: ultra competitor. Right. One is that their ultra competitors that

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Speaker 1: they compete at such a high level to not necessarily win,

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Speaker 1: but I'll use the word win every every morsel of

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Speaker 1: the competition. UM. I think another really important trait I've

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Speaker 1: seen among the highly elite is incredible emotional control. Super

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Speaker 1: high level of emotional control. They're never too high, they're

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Speaker 1: never too low. UM. Aggression. Aggression is a really big

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Speaker 1: piece of of developing. UM. You know, creativity right, the

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Speaker 1: willingness to take chances, UM, really big. So you know,

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Speaker 1: those are some of the ones I think that stand

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Speaker 1: out right away. UM. You know, a high high i Q,

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Speaker 1: a high desire to learn. And I think it's one

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Speaker 1: point for me what I've seen with you at this

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Speaker 1: at this level is you know, for many young kids, UM,

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Speaker 1: even high school you know, players, wrestlers, it becomes an identity.

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Speaker 1: I'm a baseball player, I'm a crosse player, I'm a wrestler.

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Speaker 1: Becomes an identity and they do it because it's an

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Speaker 1: identity and it's it's it's it's who people see that

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Speaker 1: they are. But then there's this next level that we're

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Speaker 1: all striving to get someone to lean into. And that's

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Speaker 1: the deep love for it, right, the deep love for it.

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Speaker 1: So it goes from hey, I'm really good at this,

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Speaker 1: it's an identity to I'm deeply in love with this,

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Speaker 1: and I want to pursue excellence. I want to pursue mastering, right,

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Speaker 1: and so ones that deeply chase mastery, I think those

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Speaker 1: are the ones that are in from the long hall.

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Speaker 1: And it's the most sustainable. You know, I've been a

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Speaker 1: Super thirty two. I've my son. You know, I've seen

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Speaker 1: everything from a little wreck tournament too, as far as

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Speaker 1: wrestling goes where I've also seen high level travel tournaments

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Speaker 1: where people are spending two grants every month to go

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Speaker 1: playing these freaking things. That's insanity, but it's winned all cost.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's there's so and I argue, you know,

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Speaker 1: at ten years old because I wasn't the best athlete,

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Speaker 1: but I played at a fairly high level of college sports,

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Speaker 1: and no one remembers what your care is, what you

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Speaker 1: did when your tent So I mean, you know, I

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Speaker 1: know there's early recruiting now in baseball and other things.

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Speaker 1: You know, they're looking for the best eighth graders to

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Speaker 1: project in YadA yadya. I get all that, but Jody

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Speaker 1: stripp matter and I've also speaked to Ben asking, But

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Speaker 1: Jody told me this. You gotta fall in love with

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Speaker 1: the process, right. I hear a lot of people talk

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Speaker 1: about the process, But what's the process versus winning it

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Speaker 1: all costs? Can you break that down a list of

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Speaker 1: apparents and under thing? Yeah, yeah, I would say that right.

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Speaker 1: All of us as parents, right, in many areas of

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Speaker 1: our life, right, we're balancing two things. One is excellence

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Speaker 1: and one is freedom. Right. So on the west side

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Speaker 1: of our minds, it's it's absolute freedom. Son. You can

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Speaker 1: do whatever you want, whatever you want, right as a parent, right, son, daughter,

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Speaker 1: I don't care what you do, right, just live your

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Speaker 1: life anyway you want. Right. That's extreme freedom. I there's

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Speaker 1: no curfew, come in whenever you want. On the other side,

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Speaker 1: there's extreme rigidity, extreme control. You're gonna get up at

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Speaker 1: this time, You're gonna wrestle fifty matches a year, you're

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Speaker 1: a junior in high school, but your curfew is seven pm. Right,

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Speaker 1: So I'm not being extreme obviously, right. So you have this,

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Speaker 1: you have this balance, and and each of us listen

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Speaker 1: every human. Of course there are similarities, but they're different.

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Speaker 1: People are different, right, they operate under different terms. If

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Speaker 1: we can get them to fall in love with it,

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Speaker 1: and we don't put them in the bucket early on.

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Speaker 1: I'll give an example. We have a big recruit named Thomasines.

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Speaker 1: As a young kid, they put him in the bucket

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Speaker 1: of he wasn't very good in football. He was, he

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Speaker 1: was a little kid. He ended up growing up to

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Speaker 1: be a six ft three children and fifty pound monster, right,

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Speaker 1: But early on in his career, you know, coaches, they

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Speaker 1: didn't put him on the field, right, They didn't give

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Speaker 1: him a good learning experience, right, And it was all

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Speaker 1: about to your point, which the reality is all about women.

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Speaker 1: And in the mix of being blinded by winning, we

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Speaker 1: can lose the reality of development. And this is all

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Speaker 1: about developing them so that when the time is right,

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Speaker 1: when their maturity and their desire hits in stride with

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Speaker 1: their athletic ability, you want those things that fall in line. Right.

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Speaker 1: You don't want to destroy someone's spirit before they even

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Speaker 1: understand what do's gonna take, if that makes any sense.

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Speaker 1: So we're all dealing with it as parents right on. On.

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Speaker 1: On the one end, you've got total freedom. On the

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Speaker 1: other end, you're you're overbearing, right, it's winning all costs.

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Speaker 1: You know, they're wrestling sixty pounds but they weigh seventy

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Speaker 1: two pounds because you line it up away in and

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Speaker 1: there's all sorts of crazy things that we do to win.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I think one of the things also

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Speaker 1: I would add is in my own personal experience is certainly,

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Speaker 1: you know, winning and having success is important because it

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Speaker 1: keeps us coming back. Right at every single time I

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Speaker 1: went and I got beat up, and it's like, man,

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Speaker 1: after a while, that gets old. So you do want

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Speaker 1: to have some success in it, because that's the chat

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Speaker 1: that these young kids will hold on too, to some degree,

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Speaker 1: particularly when that's all they're hearing. But if we get

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Speaker 1: them to understand that, hey, your shot got better. Hey

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Speaker 1: you're singing like defense is better. Hey son, you ben,

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Speaker 1: I'm so proud of how hard you thought out there,

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Speaker 1: And they just keep coming back and finding I think

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Speaker 1: that that that's long term, you know, that's that's the

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Speaker 1: best chance for development. It's like this happy medium. And

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you this. You know what, I'm

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Speaker 1: a firm believer. I've done these interviews with you know,

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Speaker 1: people like yourself who have been to the highest level

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Speaker 1: of their profession and are around the elite athletes. And

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Speaker 1: you know me as a parent, I have six kids

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Speaker 1: and listen, Oh it's insanity. I need all the blessings.

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Speaker 1: Please send them over. It's insanity. Um, thank you. But

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Speaker 1: my experience tells me, like it's very challenging to watch

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Speaker 1: my kids fail or watch my kids the bench. But

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Speaker 1: you know, when I got to college, I went to

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Speaker 1: you know, we were the best Division three program in

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Speaker 1: the country when a national title, went World Series every year,

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Speaker 1: and I was playing for a Hall of Fame coach,

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Speaker 1: Mike Fox. So it was like and I was I

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Speaker 1: was in really a great situation, and I'd waited my

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Speaker 1: turn as a freshman. And to me as a freshman,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, man, I was competing. I was in the

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Speaker 1: road too, but I was like I was comfortable with that.

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Speaker 1: Seems like now there's no value in Hey, earn it.

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Speaker 1: Understand you have to earn it because if my kids

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Speaker 1: tend he's not starting shorts up, I'm the dad. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna go start my own team. See that all the time.

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Speaker 1: And it's not just baseboat. You know, you leave, you leave,

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Speaker 1: you take them, you take them and goes. It's craziness.

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Speaker 1: Why is it vergity? Why kids got to learn how

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Speaker 1: to fight through it? It's a narrow it's a very

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Speaker 1: narrow view, right, It's it's an unprincipled view, you know.

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Speaker 1: I think that that really laying out you know, an opus.

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Speaker 1: You know what one of the principles that we're living by,

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Speaker 1: one of the principles that we're leading by. And I mean,

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Speaker 1: what's wrong with right, sitting the bench as a freshman,

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Speaker 1: paying your dues? Right? And I think I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: the question for me would is simply, you know, I

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Speaker 1: get this a lot. Does my son have what it takes?

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Speaker 1: What do you see, right? You know? Does he have

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Speaker 1: what it takes to compete at the next level? What

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Speaker 1: do you think? And I always answer that in my

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Speaker 1: mind is just stuck on this. And obviously you know,

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Speaker 1: I wrote a book called Shows and Suffering. But my

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Speaker 1: response is how much are they willing to suffer? Right?

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Speaker 1: I don't get to determine the inner will of a

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Speaker 1: human being right now? I can I can. I can

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Speaker 1: look at someone and I can say, well, high level

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Speaker 1: in terms of their intensity. Um, But I don't know

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Speaker 1: the deep desire they have and how much it really

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Speaker 1: means to them. And that's ultimately what we want to

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Speaker 1: get to, right, We want to get to the core

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Speaker 1: of an individual, and are they what are they willing

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Speaker 1: to how much are they willing to suffer for what

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Speaker 1: they want? What? Are you going to move them on

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Speaker 1: a team and they can start and it's easy. What

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Speaker 1: does that teach them? There was no suffering in that,

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Speaker 1: you know, and suffering plays such an incredibly powerful role

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Speaker 1: in the lives of anybody who has sustained success. Failing

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Speaker 1: is so incredibly important, you know. But but you know,

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Speaker 1: we love our children and if we want to protect them,

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Speaker 1: and if we don't have the right principles in place,

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Speaker 1: then we're actually doing the opposite of protecting them. We're

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Speaker 1: setting them up for in a world that, from their view,

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Speaker 1: is an entitled world. Right. An entitlement is one of

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Speaker 1: my pet peeves. I don't care how hard you work,

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Speaker 1: I don't care how hard your upbringing is, I don't care.

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Speaker 1: It does matter. You're you're entitled to You're entitled to nothing, right,

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Speaker 1: So it's things that we're going to measure you on,

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Speaker 1: and we'll we'll measure you on those particular things and

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Speaker 1: now what you think you're entitled to. When we come back,

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Speaker 1: Coach Ryan and I talked about the importance of athletes

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Speaker 1: focusing on what they can control. Welcome back where Coach

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Speaker 1: Ryan and I left off. We're about to discuss how

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Speaker 1: parents can empower their kids to develop their own drive

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Speaker 1: and the importance of athletes prioritizing what they can't control overwinning.

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Speaker 1: My in laws are originally from Cleveland. They just recently

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Speaker 1: relocated here in North Carolina. But we so we were

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Speaker 1: able to go into the wrestling factory and see I

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Speaker 1: met Michael Zicky and my son went to a camp

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Speaker 1: there a couple of years ago, and we saw Patty Gallagher.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, who is this, Like thirty year old man?

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Speaker 1: That's that's like, that's that's that's that looks thirty, but

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Speaker 1: he's got a face of a fifteen year old. Like

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Speaker 1: what's going on here at the time. Now it turns

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Speaker 1: out he's how many he's the best wrestler in the country,

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Speaker 1: and he's doing little demonstrations from my kids and we're like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, I think one of my I think

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Speaker 1: he tied one of my kids in a pretzel and

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Speaker 1: they were like, I never felt anything like that deep love. Right,

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Speaker 1: you see he's wearing it's deep love now his dad

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Speaker 1: and mom. Listen, they put him in the right environments

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Speaker 1: like all parents should do. Listen, if my son or

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Speaker 1: daughter was on the wrong people, they would be that

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Speaker 1: would be changed immediately. Right environments are so incredibly important

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Speaker 1: for us, right, the right people. Right when I think

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Speaker 1: about where're on at today, I mean one of the

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Speaker 1: one of the lost realities, simply that it's about people.

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Speaker 1: The people are there for me. I couldn't afford you

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Speaker 1: going to the clinic, but they let me come in anyway, right,

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Speaker 1: A great mother, a great father, just the right people

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Speaker 1: and how they lifted me. So, you know, putting our

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Speaker 1: kids in the right environment is wildly important, and that's

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Speaker 1: what good parents do. They'll drive across the country to

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Speaker 1: put their kids in the right environment. And I'm all

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Speaker 1: for that. That to me makes perfect sense. But then

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Speaker 1: we get to the point where the kid doesn't want

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Speaker 1: to go sure, you know, So then what do we do?

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Speaker 1: You know? And there is no perfect answer, right, you know,

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Speaker 1: I have I have four children, and one of my

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Speaker 1: sons was a starter at Ohio State for two years.

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Speaker 1: He was injured. After his second year, he hited Tommy,

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Speaker 1: do you needed Tommy John surgery? He didn't want to

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Speaker 1: get it. Listen, my will doesn't get to overwhelm his

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Speaker 1: will because he has to do the work, you know,

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Speaker 1: and he'll also live. I if it comes to past

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Speaker 1: with some regret there, but hey, that's it's your life,

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Speaker 1: you know, So it's it's it's certainly a challenge. There's

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Speaker 1: no there's no perfect answer to this, right, but I

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Speaker 1: know what the end goal was. I know we're chasing.

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Speaker 1: We want to chase, you know, you know, to healthy

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Speaker 1: young people that you know view view sports and competition

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Speaker 1: in a way that's really healthy, and that their their

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Speaker 1: assess on the things they can control and not in

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Speaker 1: the things they can't control. And winning you can't control.

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Speaker 1: So my recommendation is to keep winning out of the equation.

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Speaker 1: But you know, these tournaments have big trophies for the winner,

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Speaker 1: and and uh, those are things I guess would push

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Speaker 1: a bit. Well, I want to I want to ask

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Speaker 1: you this because you brought up a great point about

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Speaker 1: you know, Patty Gallagher, and of course I don't know

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Speaker 1: him very well at all. Coach hayes Winkle, Right, Sam

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Speaker 1: hayes Winkle. I interviewed him and he put a quote

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Speaker 1: out talking about he recruits character and how vital that

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Speaker 1: is to bringing kids into his program. And you know,

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Speaker 1: you post these things on social media and people go yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: like they want four time state champs. That's all big time, bro.

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Speaker 1: You know everyone knows what you want. They know what

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Speaker 1: you want. And tell me this, how important is character?

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Speaker 1: Like will you cross the kid off a list potentially

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Speaker 1: if if you see bad character or if you see

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Speaker 1: parents that are you know, screaming at referees, Like, how

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Speaker 1: does that impact the decision making process with someone to

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Speaker 1: come wrestle the house state We recently dropped off one

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Speaker 1: of the top of pers in the country because he

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Speaker 1: was at multiple high schools. It's a big concern, right,

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Speaker 1: multiple high schools is a red flag. It's never my fault. Right,

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Speaker 1: I want I want a tough mother, right. I want

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Speaker 1: someone who's heart on their child in a loving way,

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Speaker 1: and it's real with him, that's truthful, them shares truth

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Speaker 1: with them. Son. You know when they get in trouble

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Speaker 1: at school, it's it's not it wasn't his fault. No,

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Speaker 1: it's his fault because he's his fault. He's a human being.

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Speaker 1: You made a mistake. He's not perfect, but it's okay.

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Speaker 1: So character is wildly important, right. I have yet to

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Speaker 1: have anybody climb really high with me that does not

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Speaker 1: an incredible character. I don't have one. I can't give

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Speaker 1: you one example of someone that wrestles for me that

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Speaker 1: deeply struggled with poor decision making. So and and here's

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Speaker 1: the thing. There's way too many good ones to get

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Speaker 1: caught up in in that. But human nature sees talent

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Speaker 1: and we just run toward it. Oh my god, look

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Speaker 1: how good they are. I mean, if you look at

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Speaker 1: the Navy Seals Manual, right, the Navy Seals Manual tells

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Speaker 1: recruiters to run from high talent, low character, run from it.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't even say walk or turn your head. The

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Speaker 1: Navy Seal Manual says run run the other direction. And

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Speaker 1: it has to be dramatic because it's so appealing to us.

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Speaker 1: It's so appealing to us as as humans that you

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Speaker 1: know that we've got to preload our thinking that is

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Speaker 1: not going to be good for our organization. And I

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Speaker 1: want people that understand the organization matters. You matter, but

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Speaker 1: so does the organization. Program is king. We're gonna be

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Speaker 1: there for you to develop you every chance we can.

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Speaker 1: But program is king. See the bigger picture, coach. Everyone's

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Speaker 1: looking for the secret sauce. Everyone wants to know what

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Speaker 1: they have to do. I I argue, not everyone can

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Speaker 1: wrests at Ohio State. I wasn't good enough to go

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Speaker 1: to North Carolina, the University of North Carolina and start

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Speaker 1: my fit for me was at that time the best

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Speaker 1: Division three school in the country. I had the best experience,

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Speaker 1: had the best So I have no I feel like

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Speaker 1: everyone's cheasing d one or bust. Talk to a room

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Speaker 1: full of kids and their parents, what do they have

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Speaker 1: to do to not only get opportunity to come to

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Speaker 1: a house state, but just to be college athletes in general?

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Speaker 1: Because I think it's a privilege at any level to

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Speaker 1: be at the collegiate level. This isn't a religious talk, right,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's just I have a strong faith in God,

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Speaker 1: and I believe what he says, and what he said

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Speaker 1: is in scripture, and he talks about you know, our end,

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Speaker 1: our end responsibility is to live up to our false potential.

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Speaker 1: And the reality is that what my full potential was

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Speaker 1: in wrestling and yours and your kids and Jordan Boroughs,

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Speaker 1: They're different right there. For the reality is it's living

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Speaker 1: in truth. For me, when I left Syracuse a whole

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Speaker 1: scholarship at Series and walked on an aisle, I wasn't

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Speaker 1: recruited there. I walked on there and I looked around

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Speaker 1: me and I and I and I got a sense

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Speaker 1: of where I was. Now. The question is, is what

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Speaker 1: I've been given by the Lord? If I outwork everybody

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Speaker 1: right and get the most out of myself, do I

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Speaker 1: do all realistically have a chance of making an impact here?

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Speaker 1: And and the cruel reality for some as you don't,

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Speaker 1: you don't. And I think I think living in that

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Speaker 1: reality is incredibly important. How much am I willing to

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Speaker 1: suffer for this? What are the gifts that I have?

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Speaker 1: And is this is this something that is realistic for

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Speaker 1: me to work for? I think having those conversations is

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Speaker 1: really important for young people. So I'm a big believer

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Speaker 1: in dream big, right, But I'm also a big believer.

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Speaker 1: And if you're gonna dream big, you better work big.

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Speaker 1: You know, my dad didn't tell me you you don't go

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Speaker 1: to high and you'll never make it there. You know

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Speaker 1: we were that was nine when they were winning knots

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Speaker 1: at lots of championships and you know they were there

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Speaker 1: was the MECAP wrestling, he Internet beating and what was having.

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Speaker 1: So so my dad, I don't go, but he said, listen,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of hard working people in the world,

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Speaker 1: and if you're not going to be willing to outwork

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Speaker 1: them and push yourself to a certain level and stay

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Speaker 1: in Syracuse. But I was willing to and listen at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, right Nick, at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, no matter what decision we make, we

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Speaker 1: have to be willing to accept the consequences, you know. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And that said, Hey, I never I could have I

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Speaker 1: could have left Syracuse and never made the team there,

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Speaker 1: but that's not the way it went for me. So

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Speaker 1: you know, my comment to them would be living reality,

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Speaker 1: living reality, chase your dreams and and uh yeah, but

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Speaker 1: but I think living in reality is a really important

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Speaker 1: thing because I see sometimes with young people that you know,

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Speaker 1: they're never they're never told the truth, so they don't

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Speaker 1: so they don't live in truth, you know, and you

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Speaker 1: we're creating little monsters that don't understand, you know, how

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Speaker 1: hard it is going to be you know. So I'm

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Speaker 1: rambling a bit, but coach, you're the man. This has

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Speaker 1: been awesome. I'm grateful for you. Tom Ryan, head coach

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Speaker 1: the ohiose at University. Where's your book? Where can they

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Speaker 1: find it? Yes? On Chosen Suffering dot com. The books

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Speaker 1: called Chosen Suffering. It's about just the things that we

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Speaker 1: choose that are hard to help us grow and of

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Speaker 1: course the things in life to come at us that

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Speaker 1: we don't choose that are really hard, and how to

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Speaker 1: navigate those things, and that he has chosen Suffering dot com.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be with you, coach. I appreciate you, sir.

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Speaker 1: Talk to you soon. That's Tom Ryan, had, wrestling coach

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Speaker 1: at Ohio State University. Thanks for listening to the Reform

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Speaker 1: Sports Project podcast. Dominick Boncourt and Our goal is to

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Speaker 1: restore a healthy balance and perspective in all areas of

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Speaker 1: sports through education and advocacy. For updates, please follow us

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Speaker 1: on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, or check out our website

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Speaker 1: by searching for the Reform Sports Project