1
00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:04,680
Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

2
00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:07,480
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to cool people who built a militant,

3
00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,240
Speaker 2: popular social movement in face ofvere state repression and therefore

4
00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,200
Speaker 2: splintered into a reformist wing that failed, as well as

5
00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,400
Speaker 2: a more clandestine wing that also failed, but still changed

6
00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:18,239
Speaker 2: the course of history. Your weekly podcast that does exactly

7
00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:20,880
Speaker 2: what it says in the title almost every week. I'm

8
00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,239
Speaker 2: your host, Margaret Kildroy. Well with me today, as my

9
00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,080
Speaker 2: guest is see if I get this right, Robert Avon's

10
00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:32,239
Speaker 2: host of the podcast derrier les Salude. Yeah, podcast that

11
00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,559
Speaker 2: focuses on all the bad people in French history. I

12
00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:35,120
Speaker 2: get that right.

13
00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, all of that's perfect. I continue to be amazed

14
00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,960
Speaker 3: that the Apple people let that title into the into

15
00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,640
Speaker 3: iTunes or whatever tunes they use these days. But I

16
00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,320
Speaker 3: guess they knew brilliance when they saw it.

17
00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:52,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, clearly because they didn't well or they were you know,

18
00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:56,040
Speaker 2: just actually spoke French and didn't realize that derriere had

19
00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,200
Speaker 2: a different meaning in English.

20
00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,880
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, so that's probably what happened.

21
00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:04,520
Speaker 3: What are we hearing about today, magpie?

22
00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,920
Speaker 2: Well, you ever had a piece of technology that you

23
00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:12,360
Speaker 2: just couldn't stand, one that made you dare I say

24
00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:14,040
Speaker 2: it feel like a bit of a luddite.

25
00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,920
Speaker 3: Yes, everything that is more recent than about twenty twelve,

26
00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,080
Speaker 3: with the exception what I'll say, this shows you how

27
00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,360
Speaker 3: badly Star Trek the next generation hacked my brain. Anything

28
00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,120
Speaker 3: that's like a cool screen, like a folding screen or

29
00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,840
Speaker 3: a transparent screen, I'm still on board with. I love

30
00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,560
Speaker 3: a cool screen. I can't get past that part of

31
00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:39,160
Speaker 3: growing up on TNG. But yeah, self driving cars, no

32
00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:44,440
Speaker 3: thank you, AI anything, no fucking thank you. I can't

33
00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:46,640
Speaker 3: even really good on board with the tiktoks.

34
00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,800
Speaker 2: I know, I'm like annoyed that I'm so actively annoyed

35
00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,320
Speaker 2: that they're trying to ban it. Yeah, I also don't

36
00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:56,160
Speaker 2: want to use it. But what I do want to

37
00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,240
Speaker 2: do is remember to do the rest of my introduction,

38
00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,440
Speaker 2: including introducing our producer Sophie Hi.

39
00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,440
Speaker 5: Sophie Hi Robert doesn't know how to use most technology,

40
00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:06,080
Speaker 5: but yet knows how to report on it.

41
00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:10,440
Speaker 1: It's really fun for me. Yeah, his business kin impressive.

42
00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:12,040
Speaker 3: Uh huh.

43
00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:13,880
Speaker 1: I can't even tell you the amount of times of

44
00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:19,040
Speaker 1: explained things to him and went. But you started as

45
00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:19,800
Speaker 1: a tech turtalist.

46
00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:20,919
Speaker 2: What are you talking about?

47
00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,760
Speaker 1: How could you not do basic human thing in Robert's like,

48
00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,320
Speaker 1: I don't know, let me tell you about something nobody

49
00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,079
Speaker 1: has ever heard of and explain it perfectly.

50
00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,440
Speaker 2: I mean some of it is that like Abe Simpson

51
00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:37,880
Speaker 2: saying it'll happen to you, because like my dad was

52
00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,520
Speaker 2: an early adopter. He like didn't have a ton of

53
00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:42,920
Speaker 2: money and he spent all of it on computers.

54
00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:43,840
Speaker 4: You know.

55
00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:48,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah that was my dad as well. Actually yeah,

56
00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,240
Speaker 3: or more than more than he should have. Yeah, yeah, exactly,

57
00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,919
Speaker 3: and uh and no doesn't I mean, you know whatever

58
00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,040
Speaker 3: I mean. But I'm starting to hit that point myself.

59
00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,680
Speaker 3: I was like explaining computer things to my dad, and

60
00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:02,880
Speaker 3: now I'm like, you know, one of my friends like

61
00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:04,720
Speaker 3: takes the remote away from me while I'm trying to

62
00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,160
Speaker 3: navigate the YouTube menu, and it's like give it to me, Grandma.

63
00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,240
Speaker 3: Hya Garrison gives me no end of shit because I

64
00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:17,600
Speaker 3: love having motions smoothing on Christ the most boomer thing

65
00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:18,360
Speaker 3: I've ever said.

66
00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:20,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really upsetting.

67
00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:24,720
Speaker 5: None of us would be anywhere with technology without our

68
00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:26,720
Speaker 5: wonderful editor and who is he?

69
00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,120
Speaker 2: Danel? That was a really good transition.

70
00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:32,760
Speaker 1: It's almost like I'm a professional.

71
00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,840
Speaker 2: Weird. Yeah, someone should actually pay you at this point.

72
00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:38,200
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying.

73
00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:43,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, we should get on that. Daniel is our audio editor.

74
00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:44,280
Speaker 4: Everyone say saying hi to Daniel.

75
00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:44,400
Speaker 5: Hi.

76
00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:45,960
Speaker 3: Danel Hi, Daniel Hy Daniel.

77
00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,560
Speaker 2: Our theme musical is written for us by unwoman. All right,

78
00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:51,680
Speaker 2: so follow up question. You have the technology that makes

79
00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:53,560
Speaker 2: you feel like a bit of a ludite. What's your

80
00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:58,320
Speaker 2: take on industrial revolution and its consequences for humanity?

81
00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,720
Speaker 3: You know, consequences is such a big word, and to

82
00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:04,960
Speaker 3: be honest, I don't think you can really We're still

83
00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,040
Speaker 3: waiting to see are we going to pull out of

84
00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,880
Speaker 3: this climate tail spin that we are currently in before

85
00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,480
Speaker 3: it it kills everything of value on the planet. And uh,

86
00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,280
Speaker 3: I think I think until we get the final answer

87
00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,560
Speaker 3: to that, we won't be able to say for sure.

88
00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,359
Speaker 3: Because there's obviously there's a lot of horrible downsides, you know,

89
00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,679
Speaker 3: fucking sweatshops and industrial war and shit. But there's also

90
00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,960
Speaker 3: like labor saving devices. There's god knows how many people

91
00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,680
Speaker 3: have had a chance to explore themselves art, creativity, just

92
00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,719
Speaker 3: spend more time, you know, with their family because of

93
00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,120
Speaker 3: labor saving devices. So I'm going to I'm going to say,

94
00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,800
Speaker 3: like the this is still a neck and neck fight

95
00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,760
Speaker 3: right now, Like we'll see, we'll see who hits the

96
00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:46,840
Speaker 3: finish line first.

97
00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,400
Speaker 2: Okay, I I feel like one team called climate change

98
00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:51,359
Speaker 2: is pulled out ahead.

99
00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:55,920
Speaker 3: It's yes, yes, look is that is that? Is that

100
00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,240
Speaker 3: the best odds you're gonna get right now? Yes?

101
00:04:58,800 --> 00:04:59,240
Speaker 2: Yeah?

102
00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,320
Speaker 3: But yeah, but I.

103
00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,479
Speaker 2: Would put words in your mouth and say that appropriate

104
00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,680
Speaker 2: technology is a beautiful thing and a worthwhile thing.

105
00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:09,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, it certainly can be.

106
00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,880
Speaker 2: And so sometimes people assume that to be a luttite

107
00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,000
Speaker 2: is to be against all technology, and that the people

108
00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,640
Speaker 2: fighting against the Industrial Revolution were against the idea of

109
00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:23,039
Speaker 2: making life better. And today we're going to talk about them.

110
00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,640
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about the Luddites. Hell yeah, you

111
00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,960
Speaker 2: know much about the Luddites. I know that they were

112
00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,600
Speaker 2: skilled workers, mainly in the garment industry, like weaving and

113
00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,720
Speaker 2: like that, which is just having done one part of that,

114
00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:39,760
Speaker 2: like shearing the animal part of it.

115
00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,680
Speaker 3: It's the whole. Like, the amount of human labor before

116
00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,560
Speaker 3: we developed the machines we've developed was titanic. And my

117
00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,359
Speaker 3: understanding is a lot of them did not like that

118
00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,719
Speaker 3: these machines were coming in. At least certain types of

119
00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,800
Speaker 3: the machines that came in to automate this process because

120
00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:59,640
Speaker 3: they turned it from a skilled trade where people the

121
00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,920
Speaker 3: people doing it were valuable and had some leverage because

122
00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,440
Speaker 3: you needed it done and only a certain number of

123
00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:07,880
Speaker 3: people knew how to do it to something that where

124
00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:09,799
Speaker 3: they were all just kind of slotted in like little

125
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,560
Speaker 3: machines themselves, right, And they viewed it as like reducing

126
00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,839
Speaker 3: the dignity of labor, among other problems.

127
00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:20,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say that that's a good overall look

128
00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,000
Speaker 2: at the Luddites and what they were doing, is that

129
00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:28,239
Speaker 2: they were opposed to what the machines were doing, rather

130
00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:32,080
Speaker 2: than like that thing has too many spinning wheels.

131
00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. The issue isn't I don't like machines because they

132
00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,680
Speaker 3: do things better. It's I don't like the way these

133
00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,800
Speaker 3: machines are being used to turn us into machines. Right.

134
00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,120
Speaker 2: And also, interestingly, a lot of people are really proud

135
00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,800
Speaker 2: of their work, and some of these machines, not all

136
00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,440
Speaker 2: of them, but some of these machines were absolutely turning

137
00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,679
Speaker 2: out junk. We're turning out inferior quality work.

138
00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:53,960
Speaker 4: Oh.

139
00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,080
Speaker 3: Interesting, I wonder if that's going to ever happen again.

140
00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'm not sure. I actually don't think that

141
00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,160
Speaker 2: this has any reflection. This is very in the past.

142
00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,680
Speaker 2: No modern, Okay, well I'll just get into it.

143
00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:06,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

144
00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,320
Speaker 2: In eighteen eleven, during the middle of the Industrial Revolution,

145
00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,160
Speaker 2: a bunch of textile workers in northern England came together

146
00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,600
Speaker 2: to fight against the mechanization of their industry. Labor organizing

147
00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,920
Speaker 2: had been outlawed, so this didn't stop them. They formed

148
00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,200
Speaker 2: a secret society and they went about smashing machines with hammers,

149
00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,400
Speaker 2: burning down factories, and occasionally shooting back at the owners

150
00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,160
Speaker 2: who were shooting and killing them on a regular basis.

151
00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:33,640
Speaker 2: A bunch of them were men wearing dresses.

152
00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,400
Speaker 3: Love to see it. I mean it's efficient, it.

153
00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:41,520
Speaker 2: Is, Yeah, all that room to move, you know, I

154
00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:43,600
Speaker 2: go hiking all the time in long skirts and people

155
00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,920
Speaker 2: are like, what are you doing? That's gonna catch on things?

156
00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,240
Speaker 2: And it's just like, I've been doing this for a

157
00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:49,960
Speaker 2: very long time.

158
00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,040
Speaker 3: When you're doing a lot of hallucinogens, you learn the

159
00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,440
Speaker 3: best way to do certain things. And that's how I

160
00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,160
Speaker 3: realized that the most efficient kind of dress was like

161
00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:02,520
Speaker 3: a slightly longer than ankle link skirt. Yeah, like dress

162
00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:04,960
Speaker 3: in terms of clothing, Yeah, totally stuff.

163
00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:10,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, the maxi skirt, this is the finest thing. It's

164
00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:11,560
Speaker 2: pajamas you can wear all day.

165
00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:13,440
Speaker 3: It's easy to make too. I used to make my

166
00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:14,280
Speaker 3: own skirts.

167
00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's actually the only thing I used to

168
00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:17,240
Speaker 2: be able to sew.

169
00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:19,760
Speaker 3: Yeah. I'm not a great just that.

170
00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,840
Speaker 2: So these Luodites pushed England right to the brink of

171
00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,000
Speaker 2: outright revolution. The other thing that I didn't realize coming

172
00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,199
Speaker 2: into this was just how big of a deal the

173
00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:37,600
Speaker 2: Luodite rebellion was. The government decided to declare its loyalty

174
00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,160
Speaker 2: with the owners and not the people. Soldiers put down

175
00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,120
Speaker 2: the uprising quite violently. A bunch of people were hanged,

176
00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,800
Speaker 2: a bunch of people were deported to Australia, and the

177
00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,320
Speaker 2: lud eight Rebellion was quelled. Its songs and its name

178
00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:54,679
Speaker 2: live on, though mostly sadly are quite horribly misrepresented. Yeah,

179
00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,640
Speaker 2: there's a few mainstream of it narratives available about our friends,

180
00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,000
Speaker 2: the Luddites. The first, of course, is the simplistic version.

181
00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,000
Speaker 2: And some people didn't like technology, so they smashed up

182
00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,360
Speaker 2: machines because they hated change. Sure, and then if you're

183
00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:08,559
Speaker 2: going galaxy brain chart, next up is the more historically

184
00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,079
Speaker 2: informed one. The Luttites didn't hate technology, is a concept.

185
00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,160
Speaker 2: They hated the automation of their jobs that robbed them

186
00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,400
Speaker 2: of employment, like kind of like cashier's matt itself checkout

187
00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,240
Speaker 2: lines or something. Sure you can keep going higher up

188
00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,120
Speaker 2: you get to kind of you know, it's not that

189
00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,280
Speaker 2: the Luddites had one job in a factory and suddenly

190
00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,719
Speaker 2: had a different job in a factory. It's that they

191
00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,120
Speaker 2: didn't have a factory job at all. They had a

192
00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,800
Speaker 2: job as an artisan, right yeah. And the Luddite rebellion

193
00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,199
Speaker 2: is positioned in the midst of the Industrial Revolution, and

194
00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,840
Speaker 2: it was a revolt by those used to artistsan skilled

195
00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:40,839
Speaker 2: labor and a life with some level of dignity and

196
00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:45,400
Speaker 2: as you pointed out, some level of bargaining power, right yeah.

197
00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:47,600
Speaker 2: And from this point of view, it is a revolt

198
00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,280
Speaker 2: against the modern world. Is a revolt against what future

199
00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,520
Speaker 2: friend of the Pod Woiam Blake, only seven years earlier

200
00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,559
Speaker 2: had called the dark satanic mills of industry that were

201
00:09:57,760 --> 00:09:58,280
Speaker 2: cropping up.

202
00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,440
Speaker 3: M okay, but kind of makes them sound cool too.

203
00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:02,319
Speaker 3: I know.

204
00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,800
Speaker 2: This is one of the problems when you hang out

205
00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,480
Speaker 2: mostly in history books from like the early eighteen hundreds,

206
00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,280
Speaker 2: a lot of people saying really cool radical stuff are

207
00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:14,720
Speaker 2: framing it theologically, and so they're like confusing my like

208
00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,880
Speaker 2: metal head conception of what makes something cool, you.

209
00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,319
Speaker 3: Know, yeah, yeah, because I if like somebody was like, hey,

210
00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,960
Speaker 3: I'm opened up like an occult themed like wool clothes shop,

211
00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:25,800
Speaker 3: could I would you donate some of your wool to

212
00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:30,000
Speaker 3: the dark satanic loom or whatever? Kah, Absolutely, that sounds

213
00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,680
Speaker 3: based totally, Yeah, let's do it.

214
00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,040
Speaker 2: And so most of the time, people who see the

215
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,480
Speaker 2: under these underlying issues still see the Luddites as like

216
00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:44,520
Speaker 2: at best hopeless romantics who couldn't handle the changing of industry,

217
00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,080
Speaker 2: like like the whalers who lost their job when lighting

218
00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,000
Speaker 2: moved away from whale oil and towards petroleum, or the

219
00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,079
Speaker 2: coal miners and Apalachia currently facing the decline of their

220
00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,079
Speaker 2: industry right, And so it's this narrative of progress and

221
00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,559
Speaker 2: these people who are like tragically left behind. I don't

222
00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:05,600
Speaker 2: buy that narrative. I will present the industrial revolution not

223
00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,439
Speaker 2: as a benign or neutral thing, but instead the birth

224
00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:14,480
Speaker 2: of capitalism and industrial production that are, again I'm guessing,

225
00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,920
Speaker 2: are going to have irrevocable danger to all of humanity

226
00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,640
Speaker 2: in the world. They were not a tiny group doing

227
00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:27,319
Speaker 2: an isolated rebellion. I want to position them as revolutionists

228
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,160
Speaker 2: in the middle of a decentralized global uprising in defense

229
00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:34,320
Speaker 2: of the commons. And did you know that it started

230
00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:35,320
Speaker 2: with a comet in the sky.

231
00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:37,480
Speaker 3: A most good things do.

232
00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:43,560
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Like I think that the well, I guess

233
00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,640
Speaker 2: there's the Bible star thing, but I think overall, if

234
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,000
Speaker 2: you read like classic works of literature and there's like

235
00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,680
Speaker 2: the omen of the comet in the sky. Yeah, the

236
00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,439
Speaker 2: Comet of eighteen eleven, I think is where that comes from?

237
00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:57,280
Speaker 3: Okay.

238
00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,680
Speaker 2: For two hundred and sixty days, from March eighteen eleven

239
00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,880
Speaker 2: to January eighteen twelve, a massive comment held court in

240
00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,800
Speaker 2: the heavens. Its tail was stretched out for everyone to see.

241
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,439
Speaker 2: Everyone in the northern hemisphere. Yeah, the Great Comet of

242
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,880
Speaker 2: eighteen eleven. It found its way into the writings of

243
00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,760
Speaker 2: Tolstoy and Victor Hugo and William Blake. Tolstoy I wasn't

244
00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,079
Speaker 2: alive yet, but it ends up in his writings, sure,

245
00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:22,800
Speaker 2: And it was seen as a portent all over the

246
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,840
Speaker 2: world by all kinds of uprisings. Mostly people were like,

247
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,559
Speaker 2: you think the world's ending, and everyone's like pretty sure, Yeah,

248
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:31,040
Speaker 2: pretty sure.

249
00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:31,800
Speaker 4: The world's ending.

250
00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,559
Speaker 3: I think there's another thing psychologically going on here too.

251
00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:37,600
Speaker 3: And I just say this because of like how I

252
00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,840
Speaker 3: tend to interpret some of the things that I've experienced

253
00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,880
Speaker 3: in my life that I could see as supernatural or whatever,

254
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,920
Speaker 3: which is that most people who recognize that like something

255
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,800
Speaker 3: is fucked up and they need to do something about

256
00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,400
Speaker 3: all the fucked up shit are also like, but I

257
00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:56,040
Speaker 3: don't want to like die or you know, sacrifice my

258
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,600
Speaker 3: life or whatever, and you're kind of looking for an

259
00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,880
Speaker 3: excuse that like, Okay, it's the time to act, and

260
00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,360
Speaker 3: anything that happens that's weird is like, well, shit, I

261
00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:08,520
Speaker 3: guess it was that, right, Like that's as good as

262
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,600
Speaker 3: I've been looking for an excuse to start, you know,

263
00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,600
Speaker 3: the process of fighting back. And I guess this comments

264
00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:15,560
Speaker 3: as good as any.

265
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:17,880
Speaker 2: Honestly, that makes a lot of sense to me because

266
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,760
Speaker 2: it's like they knew it was a comet. Yeah, like

267
00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,360
Speaker 2: they had astronomy and stuff. You know, it's still meant

268
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:26,640
Speaker 2: a lot to them symbolically.

269
00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:30,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes sense to me. And there were a lot.

270
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:34,480
Speaker 2: Of uprisings in eighteen eleven and eighteen twelve, and some

271
00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:38,240
Speaker 2: of them used very consciously the language of defending the Commons.

272
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,640
Speaker 2: Some of them didn't, but all of them, well, all

273
00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:43,720
Speaker 2: the ones that I'm going to talk about, were fighting

274
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,480
Speaker 2: for a way of life that hadn't been defined by capitalism, colonialism,

275
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,640
Speaker 2: or the great enclosures of the Commons. To talk about

276
00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:52,680
Speaker 2: the Commons, I talk about the comments reasonably often, but

277
00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,839
Speaker 2: I think this is like one of the more important

278
00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,720
Speaker 2: concepts to understand where we're at now is in short,

279
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,040
Speaker 2: lot of cultures, but most notably medieval England. Because they

280
00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,480
Speaker 2: managed to export culture and language all over the world

281
00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:09,240
Speaker 2: through power process of domination. You had what was known

282
00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,480
Speaker 2: as the Commons, and the idea that most of the

283
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,600
Speaker 2: land was just kind of publicly owned, like well, why

284
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,160
Speaker 2: would you own that. It's not your house or yard.

285
00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:22,520
Speaker 2: Of course, people can just go collect firewood, hunt gray's sheep,

286
00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:27,600
Speaker 2: maybe grow some potatoes. It's land. Use it like land,

287
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:32,320
Speaker 2: everyone can use it. It's land, it's the commons. And

288
00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,440
Speaker 2: then you get the enclosure of the commons, which was

289
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,920
Speaker 2: the privatization of it, which was literal and direct. And

290
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:42,120
Speaker 2: England was carved up by stone fences, hedgerows and ditches,

291
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:46,120
Speaker 2: dividing everything up. I like, whenever you see like an

292
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,760
Speaker 2: old movie and it's like medieval England and someone like

293
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:50,760
Speaker 2: runs through a hedge along the side of the road.

294
00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:55,200
Speaker 2: It makes me feel like that couldn't be real, right, Yeah,

295
00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,640
Speaker 2: but that actually was, that was what was happening by

296
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,560
Speaker 2: late medieval England. Wow.

297
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess the last gasp of it is here

298
00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,280
Speaker 3: out on the West coast, you have a shitload more

299
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,560
Speaker 3: BLM land, like out in Oregon and Washington and even

300
00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,480
Speaker 3: big chunks of California. You regularly find yourself in these

301
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:16,120
Speaker 3: vast tracks of land that's just like, well, this is

302
00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,240
Speaker 3: all of ours, right, Like it's still kind of the

303
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,880
Speaker 3: last gasp of that attitude, I guess because white people

304
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:23,920
Speaker 3: haven't been here as long.

305
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, totally. The public lands in the US are

306
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,920
Speaker 2: a really interesting and BLM is like more directly just

307
00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,840
Speaker 2: used as like, huh, do whatever you want, yeah, you know.

308
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,480
Speaker 2: And so this enclosure started in the medieval period and

309
00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,000
Speaker 2: just kept ramping up through the nineteenth century. We've talked

310
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,880
Speaker 2: a bunch about the seventeenth century anti enclosure rebels. If

311
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:50,360
Speaker 2: people want to hear more about it, go listen to

312
00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,960
Speaker 2: the episode with the about the diggers, the levelers and

313
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,720
Speaker 2: the ranters and then the Industrial Revolution kicked off and

314
00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:02,040
Speaker 2: everything got more enclosurey by the end of the eighteenth century.

315
00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,280
Speaker 2: By like the seventeen nineties or so, things are really

316
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,840
Speaker 2: fucking heated in this way. In the seventeen nineties there

317
00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,360
Speaker 2: were twenty five parliamentary enclosure acts in England. By eighteen

318
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,840
Speaker 2: eleven there were one hundred and thirty three. Geez, and

319
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,680
Speaker 2: the enclosure wasn't just of land. Everything suddenly had to

320
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,240
Speaker 2: be discreete like with the tea in between the two

321
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:26,120
Speaker 2: e's and regimented rivers became canals. Language became more codified.

322
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,640
Speaker 2: You started getting like dictionaries and lexicons published, which overall, like,

323
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,240
Speaker 2: I'm not inherently against that. Right alongside of that, press

324
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:38,400
Speaker 2: censorship went up. Yeah, class divisions became even more pronounced,

325
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,920
Speaker 2: which I totally don't entirely understand, because England's like one

326
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:46,840
Speaker 2: of the most class divided places in the world. You know, Yeah,

327
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,280
Speaker 2: they speak a different language from each other. You know.

328
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,120
Speaker 2: At this point, during the enclosure of the commons, the

329
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:59,800
Speaker 2: word common takes on its negative connotations. Soldiers start living

330
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,320
Speaker 2: in they start living separate from everyone else, housed in barracks.

331
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,600
Speaker 2: The prison industrial complex kicks in prisons are being built everywhere.

332
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,399
Speaker 2: Prisoners are doing a lot of the labor for building

333
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:15,119
Speaker 2: this infrastructure in England. England became famous and actually mocked

334
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,920
Speaker 2: for building so many barracks and prisons, Like what the

335
00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:23,760
Speaker 2: was wrong with these people? The enclosure also came for gender.

336
00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:29,520
Speaker 2: To quote author Peter Liinbau quote, the household became part

337
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,320
Speaker 2: of the system of enclosure. The genders were separated by

338
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,320
Speaker 2: doctrine of the two spheres, the private sphere for women

339
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,359
Speaker 2: and the public sphere for men. The wife ceased to

340
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:44,639
Speaker 2: have a legal persona or existence. Yeah, And prior to

341
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,840
Speaker 2: the Industrial Revolution, most manufacturing was done by artisans working

342
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,920
Speaker 2: at home or in small workshops, which is now called

343
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:57,280
Speaker 2: kind of disparagingly a cottage industry. Right, These cottages became factories.

344
00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,680
Speaker 2: And this was a way more efficient way to speed

345
00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,159
Speaker 2: up the process of destroying the Earth's atmosphere. And it

346
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,440
Speaker 2: was also a substantial decreasing quality of life for the

347
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:09,960
Speaker 2: individual producers. It also had like some positive knock on effects, right,

348
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,280
Speaker 2: Like if you ever read about how long it took

349
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,440
Speaker 2: to make cloth back in the day, with yes and

350
00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,560
Speaker 2: spinning and weaving, like that was your life was.

351
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean that is there's a really good

352
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,639
Speaker 3: a historian who does like a blog kind of analyzing

353
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,240
Speaker 3: myths about classical civilizations. He's did a multipiece one on

354
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,119
Speaker 3: the Spartans, trying to talk about like how oppressed the

355
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,879
Speaker 3: helots were. And one of the things he goes into

356
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,000
Speaker 3: is if you are a woman and a family, most

357
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,720
Speaker 3: of your life is making and maintaining clothing for your family,

358
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,000
Speaker 3: and not to have multiple outfits just to be able

359
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:45,959
Speaker 3: because you're wearing them every day. They're getting warned by

360
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:50,040
Speaker 3: outside work and when you're taxing you know half or what,

361
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,560
Speaker 3: Like it's like eighty hours a week for a lot

362
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,680
Speaker 3: of people for basically your whole life, like maintaining forty

363
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,040
Speaker 3: to eighty hours a week, depending you know, on a

364
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:02,600
Speaker 3: couple of things, maintaining and whatnot, clothing for your family,

365
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:04,560
Speaker 3: like it is like a nightmare burden.

366
00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:07,159
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, I remember reading once that it was like

367
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,639
Speaker 2: to make a square yard of linen was about a

368
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:12,600
Speaker 2: week's worth of labor. Yeah, someone who knew what they

369
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:13,000
Speaker 2: were doing.

370
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,160
Speaker 3: There are very few people alive today who do anything

371
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,439
Speaker 3: as hard as maintaining clothing for a family back in

372
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,640
Speaker 3: like that period of time. Yeah, yeah.

373
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:24,879
Speaker 2: No, And that's what's so frustrating, right, He's like, well,

374
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:29,800
Speaker 2: I love my dishwasher, right, yeah, yeah, it's great. Yeah

375
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,320
Speaker 2: the time, I don't, and I didn't have one until

376
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,679
Speaker 2: I was, you know, in my late thirties, right, yeah,

377
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:37,840
Speaker 2: but you know, and I was like, oh, I don't

378
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,240
Speaker 2: mean one of those wash dishes. That's meditative. I love that.

379
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,040
Speaker 2: I just like rinse off my dishes, throw them in

380
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:46,399
Speaker 2: the dishwasher, like yeah, no it is. It's and this

381
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,359
Speaker 2: is what's so frustrating, because yeah, it's very natural to

382
00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:49,520
Speaker 2: look at this and be like, well, I don't want

383
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,600
Speaker 2: to go back to everyone having to hand weave everything, right.

384
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 3: Of course not, I would just freeze to death.

385
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,160
Speaker 2: The very first factories of the Industrial Revolution textile factories

386
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,919
Speaker 2: producing the cloth that got sent out to the various cottages.

387
00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,120
Speaker 2: So that was the first part to be industrialized. Yeah,

388
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,200
Speaker 2: textile was big business in England. It was the largest

389
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,280
Speaker 2: industry in England. A million people around ten percent of

390
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:17,640
Speaker 2: the country was involved in the wool industry alone. Then

391
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 2: cotton started coming in from India and the US and

392
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 2: that was even easier to work. You get your first

393
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,440
Speaker 2: textile machine, the stocking frame, invented in fifteen eighty nine.

394
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,800
Speaker 2: People of all genders wore stockings and not pants, and

395
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 2: this was made of knitted wool, and so this was

396
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,720
Speaker 2: a way of automating or at least rapid incredibly speeding

397
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:40,760
Speaker 2: up that process. The queen was like, if you patent that,

398
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,720
Speaker 2: it'll fuck over all the poor people know it'll trash

399
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:50,360
Speaker 2: her economy, so she didn't let it be patented. And

400
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,320
Speaker 2: during the chunks of the medieval period you have this

401
00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 2: thing in England that you still see today where the

402
00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,040
Speaker 2: crown is seen as what protects the commoners from like

403
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,919
Speaker 2: poverty and the rich you know what later becomes the

404
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 2: capitalist class. But slowly, surely knitting was automated.

405
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,200
Speaker 3: And that makes sense to me, like the role of

406
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,160
Speaker 3: the because if you're the queen or the king or whatever,

407
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 3: you're on top of your social hierarchy. Everyone below them

408
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 3: is constantly jockeying and fighting for power and influence, and

409
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 3: the primary way to do that is by finding new

410
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,159
Speaker 3: ways to fuck over the poor, Whereas if you're on top,

411
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,960
Speaker 3: you're not jockeying for power over the others, but you

412
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 3: do always have to keep an eye on like, are

413
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 3: the poor pissed off enough that they might kill us.

414
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 3: All right, so you're the only one that hit that

415
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 3: is really focused on that.

416
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,879
Speaker 2: No, you're right, that is such a good point. That

417
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 2: is where you're h Yeah, that's that's uh. You're going

418
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,720
Speaker 2: too far yet, Yeah, but you know what doesn't go

419
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 2: too far except some of the ads we've been getting lately.

420
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 3: Occasionally handled yes, yes, the other.

421
00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:00,680
Speaker 2: Ads that aren't in support of genocidal regimes or becoming

422
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 2: jailers don't do either of those two things.

423
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:03,400
Speaker 3: That's right.

424
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,640
Speaker 2: But anything else that's being sold, you should buy it.

425
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 2: And we're back.

426
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,679
Speaker 3: I feel bad Margaret because you said jailor, and I

427
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 3: forgot to immediately respond jailor. I hardly know her. That's

428
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:30,920
Speaker 3: my bit, a lot of stuff.

429
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 2: It's a good bit. It's pretty original, it's.

430
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 3: Great, it's great. Sophie loves it. Sophie loves that. I

431
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 3: do it. Anytime someone says anything with an er at

432
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 3: the end, Yeah, that's Robert. I barely know air that

433
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:46,880
Speaker 3: to see perfect. It always does.

434
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: Don't encourge this magfi.

435
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 4: Sorry.

436
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 3: Sorry.

437
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 2: By the mid seventeen hundreds, you've got what's called a

438
00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 2: spinning Jenny, which automates a lot of yarn spinning inventors

439
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 2: saw this machine smashed in front of him, and he

440
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 2: had the fleetown.

441
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 3: I'm thinking back to when those local youths in Oakland

442
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 3: destroyed that self driving car the other week. Oh hell yeah,

443
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 3: I haven't seen this yet, lit it on fire. Yeah good.

444
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 2: And it's not that the concept of a car that

445
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 2: drives itself is inherently bad. But within the system that

446
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 2: we live in, it's going to drive you to jail.

447
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 3: It's going to drive you to jail. It's going to

448
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 3: take money from poor people and give all of it

449
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 3: to the same four guys who were already taking money

450
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 3: from poor people. Like that is the issue.

451
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 2: Exactly, and that is what is happening here with industrialization.

452
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 2: You're not like a lot of people at this point

453
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 2: are using machines for their work, and they've found ways

454
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 2: to be skilled laborers using these machines.

455
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

456
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 3: I know a lot of people who get wool, either

457
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 3: from their own animals or from other people animals in

458
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:02,919
Speaker 3: spin it and use it to make clothing. And they

459
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 3: don't have to spend eighty hours a week to barely

460
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 3: maintain one guard because they use modern tools to do

461
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 3: all that. They just are also artisans.

462
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and so soon enough the spinning jenny

463
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,360
Speaker 2: is attached to a water wheel, and then you get

464
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,439
Speaker 2: the steam engine. And suddenly, because you have a steam engine,

465
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 2: you have way more coal mines, and then you have

466
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 2: to build canals to connect them all with convict labor.

467
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,160
Speaker 2: And there's factories with smoke stacks all over the countryside.

468
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:33,239
Speaker 2: And who worked the factories. Well, it's fucking England, so

469
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 2: it's children as young as six years old. Two thirds

470
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 2: of the workers in these early factories were children, especially

471
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 2: orphans hired out essentially slave labor, hired from orphanages and workhouses. Yeah,

472
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 2: and so people are like, oh, we don't like this,

473
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 2: and later people are like, oh, they clearly just hate

474
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,719
Speaker 2: not working all the time. They're like, no, the smoke stacks,

475
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 2: the child slavery anyway.

476
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, we don't really know what the cancer is, but

477
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 3: we're pretty sure this is causing it.

478
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, we shouldn't be breathing this, that's all I know.

479
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 2: So the comments are enclosed and people start seeing their

480
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,360
Speaker 2: way of life disappear and their quality of life drop dramatically,

481
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 2: and they didn't accept it. They fought back. Sometimes they

482
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 2: did it chaotically. Sometimes they did it in an organized fashion,

483
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 2: and they did this all over the world. I hate

484
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 2: to give the US Revolution much credit. If you've heard

485
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 2: any other episode, it just me talking shit on the

486
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 2: US Revolution. But it really did change the world, and

487
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 2: this wave of republicanism spread over Europe, inspiring the French

488
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 2: Revolution soon after, and people started being like, hey, what

489
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 2: if we had like rights?

490
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 3: Like what if? Like what an idea?

491
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 2: You know? And by seventeen ninety two you have the

492
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 2: London Corresponding Society, which is one of the first working

493
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 2: class organizations. It is basically a proto trade union. It

494
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 2: was started by a shoemaker and some buds. It was

495
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 2: open to everyone and it fought for democracy. So the

496
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 2: government passed the Combination Acts that made union organizing illegal.

497
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 2: And uh, one thing we've seen time and time again

498
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 2: is that if you make union organizing illegal, people don't

499
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 2: sit down and shut up. They start sabotaging things.

500
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you have, you have you have taken the

501
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 3: option of them to fight without destroying your property or

502
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 3: your body. So they're going to do one of those

503
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 3: two things right, and they usually even start with just property.

504
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 3: And the lights are an absolute example of this. Yeah,

505
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,239
Speaker 3: Thomas Hardy was the shoemaker that helped found that organization. Well,

506
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 3: I know the only cast for that guy if we're

507
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 3: making a movie about this. Oh, I don't know Tom Harwait.

508
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I don't know any Yep, Okay, that's an actor.

509
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 3: That's Mad Max and in Fury Road. Oh ship, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, yeah,

510
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 3: he can do this job. Sure.

511
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 2: I think sometimes people would like, Oh, Margaret, don't any

512
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 2: pop culture references. I watch a ton of movies and TV.

513
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,719
Speaker 2: I'm just face blind and don't remember names.

514
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 3: That's fine.

515
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 2: So Thomas Hardy from Mad Max is saved by the

516
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 2: work of a man who is often called the first

517
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 2: anarchist in Western society, William Godwin. He comes way or

518
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 2: before Prudin, and he's way less of a dick. Yeah,

519
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 2: because there's this click of aristocracy around this time, connected

520
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 2: with the Romantic poets who are going to fight hard

521
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 2: and at personal expense and risk for the working class,

522
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 2: including fighting for the Luddites. One day, I'm going to

523
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,360
Speaker 2: do this whole episode where I talk about William Godwin

524
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 2: and his wife Mary Wolstoncraft, who wrote one of the

525
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 2: foundational feminist books. And I had a kid named Mary Shelley,

526
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 2: who invented science fiction, who married Percy Shelley, the romantic poet,

527
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 2: and upstart. But that'll be another episode, although most of

528
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 2: those characters are going to come in today because they're

529
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 2: all part of the lodge shit in some weird way.

530
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 2: So Godwin puts pressure on is like use of the fact.

531
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 4: That he's like a rich bastard or whatever.

532
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, to put pressure and be like, hey, maybe

533
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 2: don't hang a guy for starting to work in men's association.

534
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 2: Maybe that's gonna cause some trouble. And people are fighting

535
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 2: back because people are always fighting back. And one of

536
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 2: the people who fought back was his kid who probably

537
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 2: didn't exist. And his name's Ned lud Ah. Yeah, he's

538
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 2: a Robin Hood figure, partly in that he probably didn't exist.

539
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 2: But it's seventeen seventy nine. According to most versions of

540
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 2: this story. You've got this kid named Edward Ludd who

541
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 2: lives in the Midlands in England, and he's apprentice. He's

542
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 2: learning the knitting frame and he has a shitty boss

543
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 2: sometimes it's his dad, and he's not so sure that

544
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 2: doing the same repetitive motion his entire life is like

545
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 2: his best plan and so he's a bit of a slacker,

546
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 2: so he's whipped for slacking. So he gets a big

547
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 2: old hammer, he smashes up the machine, and he fucking

548
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 2: takes off to Sherwood Forest. Because this happens in fucking Noddingham.

549
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean this is very familiar, though, Sophie and

550
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 3: I have ot with a very similar labor problem here

551
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 3: at cools Out.

552
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 2: Mm hmmmm m.

553
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that Garrison's not allowed a hammer anymore.

554
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and is only allowed in the four is living

555
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 2: in the forest.

556
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 3: Yes, that was happening before as well.

557
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 2: But oh, okay, so young Gearet disappears into legend or

558
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 2: is entirely made up and is sort of the paragon

559
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 2: of machine smashing. By eighteen oh two, you've got another

560
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 2: machine smashing that we can say isn't legend. There's been

561
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 2: a bunch of machine smashings before this. Oh there's actually

562
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 2: this thing. It didn't make it in my script, but

563
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: I had this conversation with a friend of mine who's

564
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 2: like a historian. He knows a lot about like the

565
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 2: revolutions of eighteen forty eight and the birth of socialism

566
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 2: and all this stuff. And he was telling me about

567
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 2: how the old heads the old Blood Heights when they're

568
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 2: like showing up to the eighteen forty eight revolution and

569
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 2: they're like, ah, it's time to throw it down, it's

570
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 2: time to smash machines. And everyone from the eighteen forty

571
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 2: eight revolution is like, seize the machines. We're gonna seize

572
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 2: the machinery. And everyone from eighteen forty eight is like,

573
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 2: that's what we said, smash it. And there's just a

574
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 2: culture difference, a generation.

575
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 4: Gap, if you will.

576
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 2: Eighteen oh two, there's another machine smashing that is not legend.

577
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 2: Some folks torched a whole less factory, doing nearly a

578
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 2: million dollars of damages in today's money. The owner claimed

579
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 2: that an apprentice had held him at gunpoint while his

580
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 2: friends burned the place. More power to that kid if

581
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 2: it was true, but it probably wasn't. Despite lack of evidence,

582
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 2: the kid was arrested, he refused to talk or confess,

583
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 2: and he was hanged on his nineteenth birthday Jesus Christ.

584
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 2: Thousands of people came to his funeral. They loved hanging

585
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 2: we'll talk about it actually a little bit later. England

586
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 2: loved hanging people.

587
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And.

588
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 2: He died in early martyr of the war against capitalism. Yeah,

589
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 2: more sabotage abound, and sometimes workers successfully won things like

590
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: not taking a pay cut and not being replaced by machines.

591
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 2: And this fight for the commons was happening all over

592
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 2: the world. It ties into all kinds of struggles. The

593
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 2: real MVP toolbreakers are the slaved black people of North America,

594
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 2: and slave people in the South broke their tools so

595
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 2: much that Southern tools weighed three times what northern tools

596
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 2: did because they had to make them so that people

597
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 2: couldn't break them.

598
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

599
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, in eighteen eleven, with that comet in the sky,

600
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 2: the US saw the largest slave uprising in its history,

601
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 2: at least by numbers of participants. The eighteen eleven German

602
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 2: Coast Uprising said hundreds of folks, including a lot of Maroons,

603
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 2: people who are already living free, who are like leaving

604
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 2: their Maroon communities to come put their lives on the

605
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 2: line free more people. They marched on New Orleans. It

606
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 2: didn't go well. Ninety five of them died.

607
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 3: I mean, most trips to New Orleans don't go well. Right,

608
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 3: We can all be honest about that great city.

609
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 2: But yeah, a lot of people die, A.

610
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 3: Lot of people die there.

611
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, they only killed two white people and the slavers

612
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 2: put their heads on pikes and left them by the

613
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 2: side of the road and shape full.

614
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh wow, Like, well Roman, that's that's pre medieval.

615
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 2: That's okay.

616
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 3: I mean it wasn't heads. But like when the Romans

617
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 3: defeated Spartacus's army, they crucified I mean presumably, I think

618
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 3: it was for miles and miles, like on the road

619
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 3: for miles leading to Rome. They just lighted it with

620
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 3: crucified bodies.

621
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 5: Now tell me how to open a PDF document.

622
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 2: See, I was just thinking. I was like, well, I

623
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 2: really like having Robert on because because Robert's deep dives

624
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 2: of history are slightly temporally and geographically different than mine.

625
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 2: Mine lean a little bit more towards like Ireland and

626
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 2: Norway or like Finland and you know, dark ages, and

627
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 2: yours are a little bit more Grecian and Roman.

628
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 3: I absolutely am one of those people who thinks about

629
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 3: the ancient Roman Empire every single day of my life.

630
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, but no neither of us know how to know

631
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 2: anything useful.

632
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, you yell at Garrison until they fix it.

633
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 2: You can't. Garrison's living in the forest, so now I

634
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 2: yell at my roommates. Oh true, it's true.

635
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 3: He doesn't work, he doesn't pay rent. He just fixes

636
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 3: my machines when they break every day.

637
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 2: That's not a bad deal. It's a solid deal, I think, yeah,

638
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 2: for everyone. So the same year, eighteen eleven, you've also

639
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 2: got the Red Sticks, who've covered a bit in the

640
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 2: episode about negro Fort in Florida, and they are indigenous

641
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 2: warriors fighting for their way of life, and it's it's

642
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 2: tied in with this indigenous man named Tokumsa who was

643
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 2: trying to create a pan tribal alliance to drive out

644
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 2: all the white people and reclaim a way of life

645
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 2: best based on sharing things in common. He talked specifically

646
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 2: about this, saying that indigenous folks saw quote their lands

647
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 2: as common property of the whole. So one white kid

648
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 2: who is raised by the osage at this time, Salta,

649
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 2: comes to speak, and later he wrote about it, and

650
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 2: he also wrote about the economy of those age people

651
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 2: at the time. He wrote, quote, all their various products

652
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 2: are in general distributed in proportion to the members of

653
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 2: each family concerned in their vironment, though sometimes no distribution

654
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 2: takes place, but all draw as they want from the

655
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 2: supplying source as a common reservoir till it is exhausted.

656
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 2: Whenever a scarcity prevails, they reciprocally lend, or rather share

657
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 2: with each other their respective stores till they are all exhausted.

658
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 3: Oh, that seems like a good way to live.

659
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 2: No, I know, right, it's just realizing that like a

660
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 2: lot of cultures all over the world, including a bunch

661
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 2: of European ones, were doing this until capitalism and enclosure.

662
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 3: It's this thing you obviously, you get a lot in

663
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 3: American culture and then European culture of like idolizing indigenous

664
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 3: peoples and like, no, they were not like angels, right, Like,

665
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 3: no one is. You know, they had their wars, they

666
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 3: had their war crimes. It's just that because for a

667
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 3: wide variety of reasons, they all tended to embrace the

668
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 3: idea that members of a community had responsibilities in common

669
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 3: to each other, which is like and nehema to large

670
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 3: aspects of Western civilisation, and particularly American Western civilization. Like no,

671
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 3: you will you have no responsibilities, only only to get

672
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 3: ahead personally.

673
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, which is wild because that is where the

674
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 2: tension is strongest, right, yeah, you have yeah, down in

675
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 2: South America. So the Napoleonic Wars are going on in Europe. Right,

676
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 2: Napoleon invaded Portugal and Spain in eighteen oh eight. He

677
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 2: installs his brother as the king. This causes a crisis

678
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 2: in Latin American colonies, or rather opportunities for wars of independence.

679
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 2: And among the many factions involved in these struggles are

680
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 2: groups that were dismissed as hopelessly utopian for like not

681
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,720
Speaker 2: being moderates. Right, and these were groups of indigenous folks,

682
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 2: black folks, and European idealists fighting alongside one another to

683
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 2: maintain pastoralism and a culture of hunting to defend the

684
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 2: fucking commons. You have this first Republic of Venezuela that

685
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 2: only lasted from eighteen eleven to eighteen twelve. And Simon Boulevard,

686
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 2: who is the Great South America. In eighteen twelve he

687
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 2: wrote this manifesto where he blames the failure of this

688
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 2: republic on quote certain worthy visionaries who, conceiving in their

689
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 2: minds some ethereal republic, have sought to attain political perfection,

690
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 2: assuming the perfectibility of the human race. So I'm gonna

691
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 2: have to know mull on that. Okay, I don't know

692
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 2: much about Boulevard much. I only know, like, yeah, I

693
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 2: have all these like holes in my history research that

694
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 2: I'm slowly filling.

695
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 3: You know, from what I can tell, he was pretty rad.

696
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 3: He was also like a direct inspiration or at least

697
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 3: his image, and it was used by a lot of

698
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 3: people who sucked ass. Like that makes sense, Yeah, one

699
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 3: of those lots.

700
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure no right wing people have fought against

701
00:36:54,000 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 2: maternity like the lines. And I point out all these

702
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 2: people to because people tend to view the Luddite is

703
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 2: either these hopelessly isolated flash in the pan rebels, or

704
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 2: they tend to view them as like the smartest and

705
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 2: uniquely best rebels. The only people who could have saved us.

706
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 2: The English are the only people who could figure out

707
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 2: this whole rebellion thing. But their tactics and some of

708
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:26,240
Speaker 2: their ideals came from the colonies, and at least partly

709
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: they came from Ireland. Much like all of our sponsors,

710
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 2: we are sponsored only by Irish companies. Any of the

711
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 2: following accents, you should just assume that they use a

712
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 2: leprechaun as their.

713
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:45,399
Speaker 3: Logo, and you know, drink Guinness. If you have any

714
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 3: water in your house, throw it out block your taps

715
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 3: with concrete and pure Guinness diet. Yeah, breakfast to champions.

716
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 3: Also Guinness water balloons. Okay, it's nice out now, you know,

717
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 3: with global warming and the way to keep cool is

718
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 3: to fill water balloons up with any alcohol. I'm just

719
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 3: gonna go do a marathon with a camelback of Guinness. Okay.

720
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 4: True story.

721
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 3: Today.

722
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 2: Today, I was, I was trying to look something up.

723
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 2: I was, I was looking at something about preparedness, and

724
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 2: I was I was thinking about how hard tack. Honey

725
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 2: and liquor are the things that like last forever, right, Yeah?

726
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 2: And I so I typed into Google can you live

727
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 2: off of only liquor? And the answer that popped up

728
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 2: was the suicide in Crisis health hotline.

729
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 3: That's fun. I was like, I don't know that that's good.

730
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 3: That's good stuff. You really you really don't?

731
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 2: I drink for ritual purposes, that's my current line. I do.

732
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 3: I just do a lot of rituals. Yeah, you're very spiritual.

733
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 3: I'm a very spiritual kind of guy. One time I

734
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 3: had this ritual in San Francisco where we just we

735
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 3: poured two handles of tequila into a camelback and then

736
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 3: threw a bunch of lime popsicles in there, so it

737
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 3: just melted throughout the day and you can go into

738
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 3: stores with a camel back nobody notices.

739
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:09,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

740
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 5: Total, I saw this video on TikTok and I know

741
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 5: how to use it.

742
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: Sorry.

743
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 5: Olds of this person who was going somewhere but didn't

744
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,399
Speaker 5: want to spend money on expensive drinks, so she brought

745
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 5: a glass purse and filled it up with different layers

746
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 5: of jello, like alcoholic jello.

747
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 3: But you have to know, I'm sorry, you have to

748
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 3: stop first. Glass.

749
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 5: So it was like it was you know, I sorry,

750
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 5: this is you don't seem to know how to explain

751
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 5: this to us. It was a bat so it was

752
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 5: made out of glass in the shape of a purse.

753
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 5: I will send it to you so you can what

754
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 5: I'm sayings. And then they didn't have to pay for

755
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,040
Speaker 5: drinks the whole night, and it was in the and

756
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 5: it was in a rainbow. It was a rainbow jel

757
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 5: alcoholic jello shots. See that's what I said. I was

758
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 5: with I was with them. But then they decided in

759
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:12,919
Speaker 5: order to blend in said beverage, said said beverage things

760
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 5: so they don't get caught bringing in something like that.

761
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 2: Usually opaque containers would be one's first go to.

762
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 5: Well, a lot of a lot of like bigger places

763
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 5: make you bring clear bags.

764
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,280
Speaker 2: Oh so interesting, it was, so that was the part.

765
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: They like put regular objects in it to make it

766
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 1: look more real. And then they put like fingernail clippers

767
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 1: in there, and I was, I was like you.

768
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,280
Speaker 2: I was like you, I appreciate the work. I appreciate

769
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 2: people putting in the work. Yeah, I was. I appreciate too,

770
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 2: But you lost.

771
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: Me with the fingernail clippers, respectfully.

772
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 2: I just had the leather jacket where the pockets went

773
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 2: straight into the lining, so I could fit an entire

774
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,919
Speaker 2: six pack in the lining of my jacket. And I

775
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 2: was a wraith thin nineteen year old, so it didn't

776
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 2: affect Myselfette.

777
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 3: I bought from a place in Dublin, actually River Island.

778
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 3: They had this like pirate jacket, was like a peacoat

779
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 3: that was slightly pirate styled enough that like it looked neat,

780
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 3: but not enough that you looked like you were like

781
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 3: going to a rin fair while wearing it. And I

782
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 3: had a friend tear out the lining and replace it

783
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 3: with twenty different kinds of pockets. Made out of twenty

784
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 3: different kinds of fabric, including it had two pockets in

785
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 3: the back, each of which could fit a handle a liquor.

786
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 3: So when I was living in India, you can't take

787
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 3: liquor on the subway to get to like parties and stuff,

788
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 3: I would just throw a couple of handles in the

789
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 3: back of my pirate jacket and like, yeah, roll on

790
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 3: out exactly.

791
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,959
Speaker 2: And so I hope that all of the ads are

792
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 2: for things that will destroy you, like glass purses and liquor.

793
00:41:46,640 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 3: Here they go and we're back. Yeah, if any one

794
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 3: makes bespoke coats, I missed my old pirate jacket and

795
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 3: I don't know where to get a new one. Hit

796
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 3: me up.

797
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 2: So in seventeen ninety eight, Ireland had tried to do

798
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 2: a rising, and we've mentioned it basically every episode for

799
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 2: the past year.

800
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 3: Is this the Fenians?

801
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 2: No, the Fenians are the eighteen fifty ish, Yes, I think, yeah, yeah,

802
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 2: although actually now I'm not actually sure. I think this

803
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 2: is God. They kept having so many uprisings. This is

804
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 2: the one that I mostly remember as the one where

805
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 2: the Catholics and the Protestants were one hundred percent, were

806
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 2: very much together, and then after this. The way that

807
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 2: it was put down is that the Protestants were given.

808
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 4: Special treatment by the English.

809
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and a ton of Irish people had to emigrate

810
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 2: as a result of this failed rising, and a fuck

811
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 2: ton of them ended up in these working class towns

812
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 2: in northern England. And the Irish had this traditional method

813
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 2: of solving certain problems, which is that you send a

814
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 2: threatening letter letter that says stop the shit or kill you,

815
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 2: and then you swear an oath of secrecy and valor

816
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,240
Speaker 2: to your friends at the pub. You put on a dress,

817
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 2: you paint your face to disguise it, and you go

818
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 2: break things or burn things or kill people in the

819
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 2: name of these secret societies that have declared allegiance to

820
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 2: folkloric and mythic heroes. We covered this most extensively on

821
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 2: the Molly McGuire's episodes Ribbon Men or another one of these.

822
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 3: They really had it all figured out, I really did.

823
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 2: And that's the Luddite style. And so they had King

824
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 2: lud And if you're going to have a king, it

825
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 2: should be a king who doesn't exist, just saying absolutely.

826
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 3: Tolkien understood this more or less. I know, I know

827
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 3: this is sort of accidentally the yeah to anarchism.

828
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, so there's two more side characters. I want

829
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 2: to cover the poets you have William Blake. I love

830
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 2: William Blake. My dog Rentrew is named after a character

831
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 2: from William Blake. Blake is like Godwin in this proto

832
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 2: a tradition. He is a printmaker who does engravings and

833
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,800
Speaker 2: on the side he writes weird fucking theological political tracks

834
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 2: and illustrated strange limited edition zines. And read the Marriage

835
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 2: of Heaven and Hell. You can't go wrong. He wrote

836
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 2: a poem called Jerusalem in eighteen ten, the year before

837
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 2: the Luddite Rising, and it's basically about the Luddite Rising,

838
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 2: just a year before it happened. It is a poem

839
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 2: that is a call to arms to destroy the dark

840
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 2: Satanic mills and build heaven on earth in England, and

841
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 2: it ends with I will not cease from mental fight,

842
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 2: nor shall my sword sleep in my hand till we

843
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 2: occupy the commons to green and chill our baked lands.

844
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 2: Ju isn't like factories.

845
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 3: People used to be able to, used to be better

846
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 3: at writing, like on a per cap at a basis,

847
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 3: good writers are are still good writers. But man, yeah,

848
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 3: on a bike.

849
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, because even like we'll talk about a little bit later,

850
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 2: some of the like random working class Ludites also just

851
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 2: put out amazing and other ones wrote amazing prose that

852
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 2: was like, oh, we're gonna kill you, right.

853
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just cause you didn't have a lot else

854
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 3: to think about at night other than like, how can

855
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 3: I best describe my feelings? Yeah, totally.

856
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 2: There's a lot of fermented things and not a lot

857
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 2: of TV.

858
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

859
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:22,840
Speaker 2: So the next year, the comic comes to the sky,

860
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 2: which the Luddites called a bright flaming sword, which and

861
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 2: everyone knew it was a comment because they're smart, but

862
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 2: it was more than that to them. And let it

863
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 2: be Blake's sword that would not sleep in his hand

864
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 2: until we occupy the Commons. Then you have Percy Shelley.

865
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 2: Percy Shelley is in that family of nobility who are

866
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 2: like trying to do good. His father's William Godwin, who

867
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 2: helps save the life of Tom Hardy. Percy wrote ozy Mandaeis,

868
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 2: which is one of my favorite poems. His wife is

869
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,919
Speaker 2: way cooler and more interesting than overall, and she's way

870
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 2: better remembered. She's Mary Shelley, the author of Frankenstein and

871
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 2: Frankenstein comes out in eighteen eighteen and is almost certainly

872
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:06,320
Speaker 2: inspired by the Luddite rebellion and the war against machinery

873
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,439
Speaker 2: in general. At the end of it, the Monster says

874
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,280
Speaker 2: to Frankenstein, you are my creator, but I am your master.

875
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 2: And so my like red strings connecting history board that

876
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 2: I keep in my mind at all times. It's basically like, well,

877
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 2: the genre of science fiction exists because of a working

878
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 2: class people with hammers and matches who tried to stop

879
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:26,760
Speaker 2: the industrial revolution.

880
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:31,280
Speaker 3: That actually makes complete sense. Yeah, that makes total sense.

881
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And Percy's all right, or at least

882
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 2: super interesting. They're all Polly, they're all a polycule and

883
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 2: like it just kind of and like, I do.

884
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 3: Love how this this makes me appreciate the character of

885
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 3: Miles O'Brien even more, like a working class Irish union

886
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:52,720
Speaker 3: man in the future of space.

887
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 2: Oh totally totally. And so Percy's important part of the

888
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 2: story comes after the Luodites, because it's stuff he writes

889
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 2: and publishes in eighteen twelve, so kind of in the

890
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 2: middle of it, and it's a good way to get

891
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 2: a sense of what's going on and what impact the

892
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 2: Luddites had and some of the ideological framework of the time. Also,

893
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 2: he's a vegetarian and sober. If you need another XVX hero,

894
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 2: there's just way more of them in history than I expected.

895
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 2: He is super young during all of this, but he

896
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 2: dies at twenty nine in a boting accident, so he

897
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 2: really crammed a lot of living into those three decades.

898
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 2: He's all about the rights of the people and he's

899
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 2: all about defending the commons. He wrote a manifesto called

900
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 2: Declaration of Rights that starts off government has no rights.

901
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,760
Speaker 2: It is a delegation from several individuals for the purpose

902
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 2: of securing their own and he goes on to say

903
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 2: the rights of man are liberty and an equal participation

904
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 2: in the commonage of nature because again the commons.

905
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 3: Man. I love the economy of his word usage totally.

906
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 3: He gets everything that matters in such so succinct.

907
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, totally. And he's a strange poet guy. So

908
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 2: the first thing he does when he writes his manifesto

909
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 2: is he puts a copy into a bottle and throws

910
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 2: it into the sea. And then he takes another one

911
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 2: and he puts it in a hot air balloon and

912
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 2: like sets it up into the air, but he also

913
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 2: publishes it and distributes it based and the next the

914
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 2: next year he writes a poem that becomes, according to

915
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 2: author Peter Liinbow, the Bible of the working class for

916
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 2: the next two generations. It's called Queen Mave and it

917
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,240
Speaker 2: gets its name from the female warrior deity from Ireland,

918
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 2: mave M. It's spelled ma Ab, but I believe it's

919
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 2: pronounced mave cool. All the rebels at the time, the

920
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 2: smart ones, anyway, are tying everything into colonialism. Folks used

921
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 2: Queen Mave to represent indigenous resistance in North America and Ireland,

922
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 2: as well as English resistance the enclosure of the commons.

923
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 2: And what's interesting is every now and then I hear

924
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 2: people say, and I sometimes find myself saying that the

925
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 2: you know, enclosure of the commons is the English rich

926
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 2: colonizing the English poor. But this isn't my interpretation. This

927
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,240
Speaker 2: is how the English royalties saw their work at the time.

928
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 2: There is this asshole Johnsonclair, sorry, Sir John Sinclair, who

929
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:14,879
Speaker 2: wrote in eighteen oh three, let us not be satisfied

930
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 2: with the liberation of Egypt or the subjugation of Malta,

931
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 2: but let us subdue Finkley commons. Let us conquer houndslow heath,

932
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 2: let us compel at being forest to submit to the

933
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:33,799
Speaker 2: yoke of improvement. Great, And yeah it's just colonization. There's

934
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 2: doing it.

935
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeahs as they always do. You know, I'm

936
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 3: looking at just read a story the other day about

937
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:44,800
Speaker 3: how under Biden we're looking at like building this AI

938
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:48,280
Speaker 3: powered like border monitoring thing to like monitor all movement

939
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 3: on the border, and like, yeah, they'll put those in

940
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 3: cities if they can, if we let them, you know,

941
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 3: if we don't stop them.

942
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. And the people who claim to care about government

943
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 2: overreach are the people who really want them to exis Yes, yes,

944
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 2: so Queen May of this poem, it talks about and

945
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 2: has like prose sections, and I only read part of

946
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 2: it for this, I have to admit, Queen May have

947
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 2: talks about the labor theory of value, about atheism, about

948
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 2: free love, about vegetarianism and all the revolutionary shit. But

949
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 2: like two hundred years ago, and his atheism did not

950
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:21,320
Speaker 2: stop him from giving a speech in favor of Catholic

951
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 2: emancipation as a matter of ending the oppression of the

952
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 2: Irish people. He very much She had a lot to

953
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 2: say about ending the colonization of Ireland and Shelley. In

954
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 2: this poem, he gets at something that I think best

955
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 2: captures the spirit of the Luddites. And this is the

956
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 2: most Tolkien thing I'm going to read today. Power like

957
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 2: a desolating pestilence pollutes whatever it touches, and obedience bane

958
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 2: of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth makes slaves of men

959
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 2: and of the human frame a mechanize automaton.

960
00:50:55,120 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 3: Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

961
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:08,360
Speaker 3: there's a there's a line. I think back to a

962
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 3: lot of Charlie Chaplin line from The Great Dictator describing

963
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 3: he was describing the fascist of his day. But I

964
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,800
Speaker 3: think about it a lot in context of tech industry.

965
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 3: People in AI machine men with machine minds and machine hearts. Yeah,

966
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 3: you were not machines, you were not cattle.

967
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 4: Yeah.

968
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 2: That scene is so good. That is when you need

969
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 2: to pick me up. Watch that scene from the Great

970
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:33,760
Speaker 2: Dictator and don't think too hard about his personal life.

971
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:40,360
Speaker 3: No, or probably even a bad man can channel the

972
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 3: mystic from time to time.

973
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, total least a flawed one. Yeah yeah, I mean

974
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:48,359
Speaker 2: flawed people do it all.

975
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:54,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, not that way. Ideally, but yeah.

976
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 2: So the working class didn't just get its theory from

977
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 2: the rich, educated folks on their side. They also were

978
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 2: generating it themselves. Among the Luddites were working scholars. They

979
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,839
Speaker 2: were like studying ancient Greek when they're coming home from

980
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:08,360
Speaker 2: their shifts at the factory and all of that, and

981
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 2: they're studying the modern proto socialism and the proto anarchism

982
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 2: that's going on. Either of those words are really doing

983
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 2: anything at that point, and they're going to do a

984
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:22,319
Speaker 2: lot of threatening and fighting and oath swearing and being

985
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 2: really cool. And we'll get to it all on Wednesday,

986
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 2: because that's the cool people did cool stuff. Promise is

987
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 2: that the first half is context.

988
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 3: And that's my promise to everyone I know about everything

989
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 3: any day, but Wednesday, I'll get to it Wednesday.

990
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Wednesdays the day when I do No. Wait, Thursdays,

991
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 2: the day I do all my work. Wait, no, I

992
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 2: work all the time. Wait a second, am, I like

993
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 2: those people working in the factory.

994
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:50,839
Speaker 3: Sophie, cut the feed, Cut the feed.

995
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking of all the things that I'm waiting

996
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 1: for you to do, Robert.

997
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 2: But speaking of things that Robert, Robert Evans, if you

998
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,319
Speaker 2: would like to is your podcast available in English now

999
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 2: as well?

1000
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:08,239
Speaker 3: It is? It is, it is. It's actually always been

1001
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 3: available in English. It's just my very strong Bostonian accent.

1002
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 3: It's hard for some people to understand. I see, I see.

1003
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 3: But yeah. You can listen to Behind the Bastards every

1004
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 3: week Tuesday and Thursday. And you can find my novel

1005
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:24,720
Speaker 3: After the Revolution. Just type After the Revolution Evans into

1006
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:26,719
Speaker 3: Google and it'll come up. Or you can go to

1007
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 3: atrbook dot com and read it on the interwebs for free,

1008
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 3: but it's also sold all the places that sell books.

1009
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 2: Or'll type it into Google and bring up the crisis hotline.

1010
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:40,840
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, it's not been necessary for my readers.

1011
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,959
Speaker 2: And if you want to read more of what I write,

1012
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 2: I write on substack every week. I write about preparedness,

1013
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:51,880
Speaker 2: I write about living in times of crisis, and some

1014
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 2: of it is free and then the more personal stuff

1015
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 2: you have to pay me for.

1016
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 4: But half of it's free.

1017
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 2: So what are you complaining about, Sophie?

1018
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 3: What do you got?

1019
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 5: I'd like to plug cool Zone Media's newest podcast, Better

1020
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 5: Offline and just follow out cool Zone Media because we're

1021
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:12,399
Speaker 5: gonna have a couple additional new shows coming soon this year.

1022
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 4: I'm so excited.

1023
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 2: I get really sad when I like I listen to

1024
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 2: podcasts while I do all the manual work that I

1025
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 2: like to do and or have to do. And sometimes

1026
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 2: I run out of cool Zone Media podcasts for the week,

1027
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:29,400
Speaker 2: and I get sad, and I look at other shows,

1028
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 2: and some of them are good.

1029
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 1: But if I had told you there will be more,

1030
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 1: I'll be excited.

1031
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 2: Oh cool, Just as excited as you'll be on Wednesday

1032
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 2: when you hear more about the people breaking stuff.

1033
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 5: Bye cool People Who did Cool Stuff is a production

1034
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:53,840
Speaker 5: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,

1035
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 5: visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com

1036
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 1: Or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1037
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 1: or ever you get your podcasts.