1 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World, This will be a 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: lot of fun. Klift and I watch Brian Kilmead regularly. 3 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: He is probably one of the busiest people in television 4 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: and radio today. Most of you know him from watching 5 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: him on Fox and Friends. He is a co host. 6 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: He also has a nationally syndicated three hour radio program 7 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: on Fox News Radio, cleverly called The Brian Kilmead Show. 8 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: In addition to that, he is the author of six 9 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: books and I'm sort of envious here, five of them 10 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: New York Times bestsellers. They sold over two and a 11 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 1: half million copies. His most recent book, which is currently 12 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 1: number eight on the New York Times Nonfiction bestseller list, 13 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: is entitled The President and the Freedom Fighter. I don't 14 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: know anybody who's done more to popularize and bring American 15 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: history alive than Brian. This new book, The President and 16 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: the Freedom Fighter, tells the little known story of how 17 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 1: President Aham Lincoln and Frederick Douglas moved from strong disagreement 18 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: to friendship and in the process changed the course of 19 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: American history. So I'm really pleased to welcome somebody who's 20 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: doing so much for history and so much for America. 21 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 1: Brian killed me Brian, thank you for joining me. I 22 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: knew I appreciate it. I can't. I'd wait to talk 23 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: to you about this because I know this is your 24 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 1: area of expertise in your passion. We're going to get 25 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 1: to that in a minute. But now that I've got you, 26 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 1: I have to ask a couple of things about your past. 27 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: I did not know until we prepared for this that 28 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 1: you spent a decade as a stand up comedian. Yeah, 29 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: while doing everything else, doing all sports radio and doing 30 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: news out in Ontario. I actually started three years after 31 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: college because I was doing these stand ups out in 32 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: the field for Channel one and they were handing me 33 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: these scripts and I wasn't able to memorize them. And 34 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: I also felt like I was better not memorizing things. 35 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: I was better on my feet. So I said, well, 36 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: how do I get better at memorizing at the same 37 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: time get better on my feet while waiting for that 38 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: perfect job to come along? So I decided I'm going 39 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: to sign up for a comedy class that ended with 40 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: a performance. After I was done. I had about ten 41 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: contacts friends that went through this eight weeks or twelve 42 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: weeks with me, and I said, let's get together at right, 43 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 1: and we used to write for each other and then 44 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: I kept doing it. Then I moved out to LA 45 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: and I kept doing it. But it was all towards 46 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: being a better broadcaster and just challenging myself to be 47 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: able to go up in front of strangers and adverse 48 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: conditions and see if you could pull something off. But 49 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: I was never segin felt. I've always been fascinated with 50 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: comedy and many many years ago, read Steve Allen's remarkable 51 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: book on the Funny Man. What do you think is 52 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: the biggest thing you learned from doing comedy? Number one 53 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: to stay in the room, to listen to the audience. 54 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: So if you go up there and you feel you 55 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:55,920 Speaker 1: got great material, and maybe you do, maybe you don't. 56 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: But if the audience is not listening, if you don't 57 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: understand what they're giving you back. I'm not talking about 58 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 1: the heckler like they make an eye contact with you. 59 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: Are you in the room if something does happen, do 60 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: you respond? One of the best lessons I learned is 61 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: be in the room and new That sets me up 62 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 1: so perfect for a morning show and a radio show, 63 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 1: because you got to react to not only breaking news, 64 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: but a crew member drops a camera, somebody rushes the set, 65 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: or in your ear they're asking you something while I'm 66 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 1: talking to New Gingrich, who's got a new book out. 67 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: So you've got to react to what's happening. You don't 68 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: go into it like a show, like a vaudeville show, 69 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: or like a play. This is a living, breathing slice 70 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: of life. Even though you intend to get through it 71 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: in a certain way. You have to respond to the room. 72 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: I think that was the best thing I learned. That's 73 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: something that jazz musicians learned too. Where a classical musician 74 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: plays to the music, the jazz musician, in many ways 75 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: plays to the audience. It's very similar to being a 76 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: comedian in that sense. You grew up in Massapequa, New York, 77 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: on Long Island. Many people know the bad is all 78 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: grow up there, and you're close in aged Alec's younger 79 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: brother whim. I'm curious, did you know any of the 80 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: Baldwin's growing up? Yeah? Wow, he did you research? So 81 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: in fact, I just go to the phone, was going 82 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: back and forth with Danny Baldwin. So I knew Danny. 83 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: I thought his thought was the oldest. He graduating seventy nine, 84 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 1: and everybody knew the Baldwin family. And then Billy was 85 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: a year older than me. He graduated probably eighty one. 86 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 1: I graduated eighty two. And then Stephen is two years 87 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: younger than me. And I didn't know there was an 88 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: Alec until my wife and I went to the same 89 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: high school, massa Pega High School. There was so big 90 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: at the time they divided the schools of to Burnam 91 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: mess Piqua. Now mister bald and dad taught at Massapequa. 92 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 1: He was I think one of the first teachers hired, 93 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 1: and then the kids all went to Burning. So our 94 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: town was divided in half, and so was the Baldwin 95 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: family and it was like a bitter mess Yankees Jets, 96 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: Giants rivalry. I mean, you hated these people when you 97 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: were in high school because you just had to beat him. 98 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: And you would still go to the county finals. Like 99 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: one school would always go the county finals. That's how 100 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: talented athletics they were. But mister Baldwin was a football coach. 101 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 1: But for mister Baldwin, he was a summer creation thing. 102 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: So teachers always looking to make extra money tutoring or 103 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: doing lifeguarding or doing something. He ran summer a creation 104 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: where you got all the kids in the neighborhood would 105 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: go down to a local grammar school by you, and 106 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: you'd have one or two teachers running it. And mister 107 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: Balden was this big guy. He was probably two sixty 108 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 1: six foot six one and he looked like he was 109 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: made out of steel. He was a little heavy, but 110 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: he just looked like an offensive lineman. And he was 111 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 1: the nicest guy. I mean, just the nicest guy. He 112 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: made search an impact. So for three months every year 113 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: for about five years, that's where I went from like 114 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: fourth grade to ninth grade, and I got to know 115 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: those guys. A little. Danny was the crazy one. Danny 116 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: went through even though we went right and got one 117 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: of those TV series with Richard Belzer, he had a 118 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 1: huge drug and alcohol problem and he just did a 119 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 1: documentary how he got out of it and how he's 120 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: trying to help other people through it. And Alec ex 121 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: actually he's in it, and so is Billy, and then 122 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: Stephen had his moment and Alec we all know. And 123 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: Jerry Seinfeldt's dad was the first guy that ever hired me. 124 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: I was thirteen years old and I decided I want 125 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: to get a job he had a sign shop down 126 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: the block. Jerry was not famous, but mister Seinfeld would 127 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: paint himself on all the sides. So we'd make signs 128 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 1: for the whole town and it would say cal Signs 129 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 1: at the bottom. So I said, I don't have no 130 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: artistic ability, but i'll work. So I'm thirteen years old. 131 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: I walked in and he said, what do you do? 132 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: And I'll work. I'll hold the ladder, I'll go out 133 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: on your shoot, so help put signs up. He goes, Okay, 134 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: come every Saturday. And I came every Saturday for probably 135 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: two years. And one day he was spray painting. I 136 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 1: would look like a huge paper bag. Jerry's on the 137 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: Tonight show Tonight Watch, And I said, who's Jerry And 138 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: he said that's my son, and I go, what did 139 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: your son do? He's like, he's a comedian. I go, wow, 140 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: he's on the Tonight Show. He's got to be good. 141 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: And I'm thinking to myself, but there's no way he's funny. 142 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: And then sir enough, I was probably in eighth grade, 143 00:06:58,400 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: ninth grade, and I say, can I just watch the 144 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: Tonight Show? And I watched Jerry kill Carson call him 145 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: over and Carson goes to him. He goes, so, first question, 146 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: I swear to god, what did your parents say when 147 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: you told him you wanted to be a stand up comedian. 148 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: They looked at me and they said, we'll be right back. 149 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: They walked out of the room and came back and 150 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: they said, we will support you whenever you do. But 151 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: I've talked to your mother. We don't think you're very funny. 152 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: I laughed so hard. I'm thinking to myself, I don't 153 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: think they're funny. Your son's funny. I just thought they 154 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: had it totally backwards. And that was the first time 155 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: people on TV connected with my real life that moment, 156 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: and I go, wow, it's possible. You know, it's possible 157 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: to be that guy asking the questions, to know the 158 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: guy that's being asked the questions. The more I thought 159 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: about it, that was like a significant moment. It's interesting 160 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: to maybe because you still live in your hometown, you 161 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: and your wife and your three kids, and you sort 162 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: of come across as a down home kind of guy. 163 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: You've had all these successes, but you don't come across 164 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: like it made you a celebrity, even though you clearly are. Yeah, 165 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: I mean, my thing is. It took me twelve years 166 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: to get to Fox. And when I got to Fox, 167 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: no one knew who it was, but I knew it 168 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: was a great place. I could tell it was like 169 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: walking into Yankee Stadium when they would name the Highlanders. 170 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: I thought, this franchise is going to transform, and Roger 171 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: Rails is at the head of it. And when he 172 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: started putting up headlines of people that hated us and 173 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: predicted loss. I had such a sports background, not that 174 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: I was a great athlete, but I was a dedicated 175 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: athlete through college soccer, and we were always the underdog. 176 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: And he's like, listen, that's the USA today. To cover 177 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: one thing. We know for sure, Fox will not be successful. 178 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: And you've been in the news room. You remember where 179 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: you speaker when I got hired, Yeah, you were all 180 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: these headlines. I go, wait a second. Instead of running 181 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: from bad headlines, he would entertain it. And that attitude 182 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: of working harder overcoming things, that underdog attitude was the 183 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: same thing I was used to in sports, and everybody, 184 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: to a person, including Bill O'Reilly, I think got successful 185 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: at Fox. With Fox. The reason I will give myself 186 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: credit is I realize that Fox would be successful without me, 187 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: So hold on tight and do everything you can to stay. 188 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: A lot of people feel as though they get too 189 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: big and they think they could do it on their own. 190 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: And I realized it's the vehicle that gives me the 191 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: opportunity to get in front of people and the philosophy 192 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 1: because I knew what it was like before I got 193 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: to Fox. The most they ever made was probably thirty 194 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: thousand dollars a year, and then I had to work 195 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: on the side and do freelance stuff. So in my head, 196 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: I'm still that same guy back in time. From having 197 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: been with you on the set, heading with you on 198 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: your radio show, you are that guy, I mean, one 199 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:48,719 Speaker 1: hundred percent a real person and I think very refreshing. 200 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: But I do want to take you back to one 201 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: sports thing you were talking about. It. It's really interesting 202 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: to me having watched you on Fox and Friends, that 203 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: you played soccer for years both on high school and college, 204 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: and that was real your background, and then you ended 205 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 1: up really as a sports reporter and finally ended up 206 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: co hosting the Jim Brown Show. What was that like? 207 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: Am I talking about a guy who was a historic figure. 208 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: It was unbelievable, and he's talk about visualization. No one's 209 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: ever asked me that, by the way, I brought it 210 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: up on my own. People ask about my background, but 211 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: you're the only one, I think to ever asked me that. 212 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 1: And you had to go back to nineteen ninety two 213 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: or three. That's when I first met him. So I'm 214 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: going out to California and my dad owned department Hasset 215 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: and Jim Brown was from in Hassett, Long Island, and 216 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: he used to come down and talk about two people, 217 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: Lyla Alzados from Manhasset and Jim Brown. So he used 218 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: to tell me because Jim Brown's last year was a 219 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: year I was born in sixty four, the best athlete 220 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: he's ever seen, the best football flower by far as 221 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: Jim Browne. He's from Inhasset, and I watched Jim Brown say. 222 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: A bunch of leaders in the Manhassean community came together 223 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: because he was living above a second floor with his mom, 224 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,559 Speaker 1: who was a maid, and he was such a good 225 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: athlete and a great kid. They pulled their money together 226 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: and tried to get him recruited. Syracuse showed interest, but 227 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,559 Speaker 1: they had no money, so they told Jim brownie got 228 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: a full ride, but What they did is they pulled 229 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: their money and they paid for it because they knew 230 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: the minute he got in front of these coaches that 231 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: he was going to impress. But the first year, these 232 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: townspeople in a mostly white community pulled their money together 233 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: to get Jim Brown up there. So he went in 234 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: there and he killed. At the same time, he would 235 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: tell me I travel around down South Syracuse and they 236 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: would say, oh, yeah, the black players got to stay 237 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: in that hotel. The white players stay in this hotel. 238 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,679 Speaker 1: And his coach invariably would say, no, we're all staying 239 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: in the black hotel. And he knew kindness, but he 240 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: also knew racial division. And he never wanted to talk sports, 241 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 1: although he would. He was a running back freak. Remember 242 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: he gave me the rundown on Marshall Falk while Marshall 243 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: Fogs at San Diego State in a way I never 244 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: thought it was possible. And we would go talk about life. 245 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: He would say to me, Brian, what does it mean 246 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: to be Catholic? That's how we'd start the show. He 247 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: would say, as a white guy, how did you view 248 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: black people? And I loved it. But the first person 249 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 1: he was put to was Jewish he'd say, what does 250 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: it mean to be a Jew? And that person was 251 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: offended and they complained to the station. But that's whey 252 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: Jim was. Jim was deep. He treated everyone equally, still 253 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 1: does treats everyone equally. Most of his friends were celebrities 254 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: for a while or great athletes. He doesn't care. He 255 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: was into going into gangs and giving black kids without 256 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 1: parents and family, wayward kids a second chance, set up 257 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: their prison program. But the main thing is when I 258 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: go out to California, I drive across country and I 259 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: brought two books with me and I only opened up one, 260 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: Larry Bird and Jim Brown. And I opened up Jim Brown. 261 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: And as soon as I saw all the connections, all 262 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: the stories that my dad told me came into fray, 263 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:37,839 Speaker 1: I said, I got to meet this guy. And within 264 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: one year, I'm sitting with the program director and they go, 265 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: we got to diversify a weekend programming. Who do you 266 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: have in mind? They go, Jim Brown lives right here 267 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, right by AM six seventy. And I go, 268 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: I think I know how to get a hold of them. 269 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: So they go, okay. So I actually wrote him a letter. 270 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: He said, I'd love to do something, and they gave 271 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: it to somebody else to host that person out because 272 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: he was asking too many personal questions about their religion 273 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: and whiteness. And I jumped in and then we had 274 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: a friendship. We have a friendship to this day and 275 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 1: every time I go out there and bring my whole family. 276 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: He has kids now that are in college. Monique as 277 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 1: somebody always connect with every Super Bowl, and Jim's eighty 278 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,439 Speaker 1: five now, having trouble getting around, but he's all there. 279 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,679 Speaker 1: And he was a Trump fan because I'm not a Republican, 280 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: a Democrat. But Obama never contacted me for eight years 281 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: and I tried to contact him. He would send some 282 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: staffer to get back in touch with me. As soon 283 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 1: as I contacted the Trump team. Not only did they 284 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: get back to me, Donald Trump called him after he 285 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: won the election and invited him to Trump Tower. Now 286 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: he's in Los Angeles and Hollywood Hills. Everyone there hates Trump. 287 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: He said, I want influence on America. He's gonna give 288 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: me influence. We always got along. He was respectful, I'm 289 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: going and anytime they talked about setting up these programs 290 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: in communities and these center prying zones, Jim Brown had 291 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: to see the table. That Kanye West circus was a 292 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: problem for Jim because he was a part of it. 293 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: That's not who he is when Kanye West lost it. 294 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,599 Speaker 1: Jim Brown's in the Oval office at the time. But 295 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: Jim Brown's a dead serious person. He would point to 296 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:13,439 Speaker 1: a bunch of kids. He goes, do you think they 297 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: cared that I was a football player? They cared that 298 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: I care about them. That's why they're here. They don't 299 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: even know what I'd do. You know, we point to 300 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: a bunch of ten year olds and I just saw 301 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: somebody who achieved greatness at thirty and his best work 302 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: was the next forty years. And I'm not saying he 303 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: was perfect, but the way he treated everyone as if 304 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: they had a story and he cared, I think taught 305 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: me a lot. It was everything else you're doing. You 306 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: start writing books about history. What led you to decide 307 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: you wanted to share your love of history with the 308 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: American people? Well, the first thing I did. The games 309 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: do count. It's how you play the game. I thought 310 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: sports in life because I didn't become a professional player, 311 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: and most people don't that I waste my time playing 312 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: from five to twenty one, a game and playing three 313 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: hundred days a year. Imagine trying everything you can and 314 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: not being great, and a really a guy to come 315 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: up and say life's not fair, get over it. And 316 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: I thought that was a book. The games do count 317 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: for all the people like George H. W. Bush, Jack Welch, 318 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: Oliver North, there was a boxer. Everyone had a sports story, 319 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: but no one had a Sports Hall of Fame career 320 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: or a pro career. George Allen, who was the center 321 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: from Virginia, did seventy two interviews, most of them the 322 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: political figures that you'd recognize about how they dealt with 323 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: failure and how it helped them later on, and then 324 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: it's how you play the game. I wanted to believe 325 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: the values in ethics blowing in sports, and that's why 326 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: I wanted to prove that Joe Montana belonged in the 327 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: same book as the rock who never went pro, never 328 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: went past the University of Miami. Because if you don't 329 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: know values in ethics by the time you're thirty and done, 330 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: you're not gonna be a great person. And most of 331 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: those people I did ninety two are now. It led 332 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: me when I was doing historical figures like George Patton 333 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: and Abraham Lincoln and tried to put him into the 334 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: book It's how you Play the game. And those sports stories. 335 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan too, what they learned in sports when they 336 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: didn't go pro and how it helped him later on. 337 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: That really got me intrigued with history. And this other 338 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: book that I read that you may have read. Harry 339 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: Truman wrote a book not about himself but about other 340 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: historical figures. And he didn't write about Thomas Jefferson wrote 341 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: the Declaration of Independence and won the Barbarywards. You know 342 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: what he wrote about. Thomas Jefferson was about sixty three 343 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: with freckles, was very lean, would ride a horse as 344 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: fast as he kent every morning to wake up. George 345 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: Washington was a guy who was very self conscious about 346 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: his education compared through the other founding fathers. He also 347 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: had a self consciousness about his teeth, where he had 348 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: teeth that would put in his mouth that not only 349 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: caused him pain, it caused him embarrassment. I go, wait 350 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: a second. These iconic figures that belong on the sides 351 00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: of mountains were human beings. This guy had freckles. James 352 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: Madison was a sickly guy five foot two inch, not 353 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: a great leader, but to great intellect. And his relationship 354 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: with James Munroe as well as Jefferson was special. And 355 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 1: I heard about these robberies in these human beings, I go, 356 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: I have to find out more. And that started my 357 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,479 Speaker 1: passion for reading these profiles. David McCullough is Truman. So 358 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: Truman wrote the book and he did about twenty famous 359 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: figures and what they were like as people, and that 360 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: wept my appetite for it. And then one day Bill 361 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 1: O'Reilly started writing these history books. And you started writing 362 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,400 Speaker 1: history books, and they became so real to the general population, 363 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 1: not to Harvard professors. It kept moving, it was accurate, 364 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: and men, I had all these people talking to me 365 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: about it. So I had this one story, George Washington's 366 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: Secret six I looked out for twenty years, and I 367 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: think I might have told you this, that I live 368 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:47,919 Speaker 1: on Long Island, went to Long Island University, and I 369 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: did not know George Washington aspiring that functioned for three 370 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: and a half years, without which we'd o were in 371 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: the Revolutionary War. When I told Bill O'Reilly that he 372 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: said you should write that book. I never heard of 373 00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 1: it either. And he kind of helped me through it. 374 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 1: And after that one led to Jefferson, and I wanted 375 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: to find out something not cloud ground with Jefferson led 376 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: me to the Tripoli pirates Andrew Jackson. They said that 377 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: we didn't have to fight the Battle of New Orleans, 378 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: as you know we did, and I proved it in 379 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: that and we got documentation from England that said they 380 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: were going to abrogate the Treaty of Ghent and they 381 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: were going to stop us from growing past of Mississippi. 382 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: Proved in Napoleon had no right to flip us that property. 383 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: And then led me to Sam used him because I 384 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: never knew much about Texas, but Fox Nations sent me 385 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,239 Speaker 1: down there to do a bunch of features. And then 386 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,120 Speaker 1: the more I heard about the Alamo, I always say 387 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: what happened next? And I thought I had an angle 388 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: there that led me to this one. That's great. So 389 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: now you picked I think a fascinating topic. I think 390 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas or somebody Americans should know much more about. 391 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: But what led you to decide to write about Lincoln 392 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: and Douglas and their relationship intimidation. I read these books 393 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: on Lincoln and they're so good. And I read the 394 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 1: David Blite book on Frederick Douglas, and I didn't think 395 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: I could do better. I know I couldn't. Plus it 396 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: takes five to ten years to do that, and I've 397 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: needed an angle in this and I want to tackle race. 398 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 1: I want to prove to everybody that when you have 399 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: a problem with CRT or sixteen nineteen, it doesn't mean 400 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: we're denying slavery was evil in America's original sin. But 401 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 1: we could tell the story accurately and how these two 402 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 1: self made men could be an example to others, even 403 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: though no one can match their intellect. I get it, 404 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: but maybe by looking at their life and outlining it 405 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 1: in an accessible way, and how they finally came together 406 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 1: at the end to move us in a way that 407 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 1: probably no two other people could have. What if I 408 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: tell that story in a compelling way, I leave out 409 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 1: the turning of the leaves and the speed of the wind, 410 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: and I get right to the point. And if I 411 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: tell it a compelling way, you might want to pick 412 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: up a link in book after I hope, and a 413 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,439 Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas biography. I hope, But I want to just 414 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: focus on how they came up. What was happening in America, 415 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 1: the Civil War backdrop and how they ultimately came together 416 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: at the end. And then Fox let me do a 417 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: special on it. It aired at ten o'clock on Sunday 418 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: the first week in November, and that's on Fox Nation too. 419 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: So what was the biggest surprise to you in studying 420 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: these two guys together? Number one? Here it is the 421 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: time in which we're watching what's happening in Virginia, and 422 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: was seeing the education and the curriculum. What have I 423 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 1: told you? That they would kill to argue about curriculum 424 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: because they couldn't get into school, the thirst to learn. 425 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: And I said, there, I said, where did they learned that? 426 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 1: You know, Lincoln's dad didn't want him to learn. He said, 427 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,199 Speaker 1: why are you wasting your time? Learning? Books? Aren't going 428 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: to do you any good? You know, pick up a 429 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 1: shovel and Frederick Douglas, you would go to jail if 430 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: you would call it teaching him to read and write, 431 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: but they would not be denied. It also taught me 432 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: that this unbelievable American spirit, where even for a slave 433 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: he saw opportunity, he saw this is wrong. I know 434 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: what America's promise is the soon as we have to read. 435 00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: And the more he read, the more he opened up 436 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: his mind, the smarter he got, more he knew he 437 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 1: had to learn. Isn't that what we try to tell 438 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,199 Speaker 1: our kids all the time. The more you know, the 439 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: more you'll realize there's so much more to know. And 440 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: they're thirds for learning and their appreciation for learning. While 441 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: I'm going through the news with CRT sixteen nineteen now 442 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 1: Governor elect Junkin, and they're fighting for what kids are taught. 443 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas was running errands for white kids in an 444 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: effort to do their homework. Please explain to me your homework. 445 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: I'd love to do it. And if those kids got caught, 446 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: even when he wrote his biography, if those kids got 447 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: caught helping Frederick Douglas, who has now escaped to freedom, 448 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 1: they would be arrested. So then there's Lincoln going all 449 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: around teaching himself to read and write and exercising his mind. 450 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: Still back then in frontier America, there was a sense 451 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: of a land of opportunity, and that's what I thought 452 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 1: was great and also nude. If you're Frederick Douglas and 453 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,919 Speaker 1: you were born a slave and you're making speeches and 454 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 1: you're feeling the ta even in the North, and then 455 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: you go over to England and Germany and Scotland and 456 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,479 Speaker 1: you treat it like royalty. You would not blame Frederick 457 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 1: Douglas for saying, I think I'll stay, I'll send for 458 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: my family. Instead, he says, I'm coming back to three 459 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: four million and till three hundred and fifty thousand landowners 460 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: do something else, and you better start paying for labor. 461 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: I go, man, if I could help underline that story, 462 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: it would be a privilege when you look at the 463 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: two of them there, coming at this thing from a 464 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: different angle being. Douglas feels this enormous passion legitimately because 465 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 1: people are in slavery every single day. Lincoln, on the 466 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:57,479 Speaker 1: other hand, is very cautious, particularly before the war, because 467 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: he thinks it will lead to a war. Who turned 468 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: out to be true. But there's attension, it seems to 469 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: me between sort of Douglas's calendar and Lincoln's calendar. Yes, 470 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: you know, people sit at home and they go, you know, 471 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: why didn't they pass this piece of legislation. I thought 472 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: they were in there to make a difference. They don't 473 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: realize that they have to deal with the game that's 474 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 1: being played. How many delegates do you have from your party? 475 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: How many senators do you have on your party? We're 476 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: seeing this every day. Where is the country at the time? 477 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: Are they willing to accept this type of change? Now, 478 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: it's different that if you're a statesman that Lincoln knew, 479 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: and you're a person who's in charge of the country, 480 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: as opposed to an activist and an influencer like Frederick Douglas. 481 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,719 Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas was aspiring, but he didn't have the power. 482 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: He could influence, but he didn't have the keys to 483 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 1: the car. Now, if Lincoln went at Douglas's speed, he'd 484 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,640 Speaker 1: have no country to govern. Any knew it. Frederick Douglas 485 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: could not care less about the struggles that Lincoln had because, 486 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 1: in his mind, my humble opinion, he knew what was 487 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: going on in the South. Every day was hell. Every 488 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 1: day was something that was intolerable. That's all he saw. 489 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: What Lincoln said is if I listened to this guy 490 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: who's writing in the North Star at paper that he 491 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,400 Speaker 1: got funded in finance and wrote for every day, if 492 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: I go by his pace, I'll have no country. Because 493 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: the North was not ready to fight to free the slaves, 494 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 1: but they eventually would. Timing was everything, and that's why 495 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas didn't see it. But ten years later, Newt 496 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: and I do my stand up at the end of 497 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,919 Speaker 1: the piece of the freedom statue, which is causing so 498 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: much controversy. If Lincoln standing tall and an African American 499 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: breaking free of his chains, and they thought this is 500 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 1: a bad symbolism, Well, it was finance spice for eight slaves, 501 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: and it was done by Thomas Ball, who the freed 502 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: slaves asked to make a statue to commemorate the freedom 503 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: that Abraham Lincoln brought to the slaves and an African 504 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: American experience at the time. But it was Frederick Douglas 505 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: who had dedicated it. If I could paraphrase, Douglas basically said, 506 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: you know, by my standards, he was slow, he was plotting, 507 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 1: he was meandering, but by the standards of the country 508 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 1: at the time, he was swift, direct, and right on time. 509 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: And he realized that ten years after the assassination that 510 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 1: Lincoln was right. That it's difference between a statesman and 511 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: an activist, and a lecturer and an intellectual as opposed 512 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,919 Speaker 1: to somebody who actually had the responsibility to represent an 513 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 1: entire population despite where his heart was. Was your view 514 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: of Lincoln changed by this whole process of studying that relationship. Yeah, 515 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: I mean absolutely much more nuanced. And you know, I 516 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: know that all the stories of the depression, the losing 517 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 1: of two children. His wife was certainly taking that extremely hard. 518 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 1: You know. The first thing I did to start is 519 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: read every single speech he made, and I took notes 520 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: on every single speech he made. In the beginning New 521 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: you cringe where he says, I'm not saying the blacks 522 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: and whites are equal. Everybody knows that whites are superior 523 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: to blacks, and you go, oh, but he was a 524 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: person of his time, and you watch him grow the 525 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: more he knew. Now the other thing that was the 526 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: same thing with him and Benjamin Franklin. And I feel 527 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: weird talking like this because you know all this ten 528 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: times over better than I do. So please excuse me. 529 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna answer the question. But I know you 530 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 1: know the answer. Trust me. I think on some of 531 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: the stuff you know far more than I do. And 532 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: I'm listening just like everybody else in your audience. Well, 533 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 1: he grew, he evolved, I mean, even nude you and 534 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: your thirties and forties. I picture, are you evolved? You 535 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,400 Speaker 1: might have a different feeling now and you might think, Wow, man, 536 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: I wish I did this as speaker in retrospect. I mean, 537 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: I know the things that I regret every day that 538 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: I think I grew. I hope I grew in this time, 539 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: even on Fox. So you have Lincoln who's emerging as 540 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: a frontier lawyer, one term congressman, but he's constantly learning, 541 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: constantly bouncing off ideas, and when you hear his speeches, 542 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: he's like every man deserves to be free, and he's 543 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:51,919 Speaker 1: got a great way to phrase it. But at the 544 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: same time he goes, I never said that blacks and 545 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: white should be able to marry. I never said that. 546 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 1: And he's the same guy that said colonization. Well, that's 547 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: the only thing is is obviously is not going to work. 548 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 1: I wish we never had a slave trade. So let's 549 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 1: work out a program where we get some rich people 550 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: to give some money together and we send the black 551 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: slaves down south into Africa. And it makes you cringe. 552 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 1: This is our iconic guy, our most infamous president. But 553 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: he grew, and I will tell you for sure, he 554 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: grew because the second campaign that Lincoln ran, it's almost 555 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: the campaign of an abolitionist, where the first one he 556 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,439 Speaker 1: was willing to cut a deal just to get the 557 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: South back and say, I'll make the Thirteenth Amendment slavery, 558 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: we'll make it part of the constitution, anything to not 559 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: break up the union. And that made Frederick Douglas almost 560 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 1: want to leave the country apoplectic. This guy let us down, 561 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: He lied to us. No, what he did first is 562 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 1: try to save the country. Then I'll try to fix it. 563 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 1: But I have nothing to fix right now. So I 564 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: think the biggest surprise with Lincoln is how much he evolved. 565 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: He always thought slaves should be free, never thought it 566 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: was okay to take a liberty, always thought the enslaver 567 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 1: was almost as compromised as the enslaved, because you lose 568 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: part of your soul when you control another human being. 569 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: But like Benjamin Franklin, who many people say was maybe 570 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: the smartest person to ever live, who had slaves, he 571 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 1: would grow to realize there's no difference in skin color, 572 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: there's no educational deficit among people of different races, and 573 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: he ended up an abolitionist. Do I judge Benjamin Franklin 574 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 1: as a slave owner who grew up in this environment, 575 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,959 Speaker 1: or do I judge him as a abolitionist. I do 576 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,679 Speaker 1: this thing called judging someone in their entirety, and I 577 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: don't use the word judge. I use the word study 578 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: because I want to learn from these people. I don't 579 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: feel qualified to judge these people. What I found most 580 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: astanding over the last few years is that all these 581 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: people ripping down statues, making protests, hopping on our air, 582 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: making decisions, they are actually judging these iconic people in 583 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: our past instead of studying them and think what could 584 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: I learned? You know, how could I grow? And if 585 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: you want to put a plaque that says former slave 586 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: owner grew to an abolitionist, you put it on if 587 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: you want, you know, you put that on with these 588 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: sophisticated museums that we're in right now. But to me, 589 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: the way Lincoln needed to grow to become the great 590 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: emancipator that stuck with me. And the fact is, if 591 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: you want to know where Lincoln felt about blacks and whites, 592 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: just look at the way he d treated Frederick Douglas 593 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: the last time they met. He gives his last inaugural address, 594 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: and it was about seventeen minutes, as you know, and 595 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: it was about reconciliation and forgiveness. It wasn't about, hey, everybody, 596 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: we won the world. Let's cook grab a Confederate soldier 597 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: and jailed them. He was about coming back together. And 598 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: that's exactly what Frederick Douglas wanted. So Douglas gets invited 599 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: to the White House to the ball. Lincoln looks up 600 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: in a crowded room and he says, according to Douglas, 601 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: my friend, Douglas, what did you think of the speech? 602 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: And Douglas says, mister President, you got a room full 603 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,719 Speaker 1: of people much more important than me. Don't worry about it, 604 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: he says, Douglas, there's nobody whose opinion I care about more. 605 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 1: What did you think of my speech? And he says, 606 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: is a sacred effort, mister president, that was the elastic change. 607 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: I ask you, does that sound like a racist that 608 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: was pandering or does that sound like a man who 609 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: has sparred, disagreed and worked together with an African American 610 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: leader who probably was in root to becoming the ultimate 611 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: abolitionist before he was gunned down at fifty six YEP, 612 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: I think that's exactly right, and I think had he lived, 613 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: we would have had a very different reconstruction. Lincoln was 614 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: in a way gentle but very very firm, and I 615 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: think that as Grant tried to do later, he would 616 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: have been very aggressive. And tragically he had a vice 617 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: president who was very sympathetic to the slave owners and 618 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: very disruptive and essense a great detour. But you've done 619 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: a great job. I must say. All of your books 620 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: do well is they're very good reading, they're great stories. 621 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: You have the knack and you've learned it from radio, 622 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: from television, from being a comedian if you will, as 623 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: well as a reporter. And I just want to thank 624 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,239 Speaker 1: you for taking part of Christmas week to join us. 625 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: As you know, close and I are big fans of 626 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: Years personally and we watch you, I think literally almost 627 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: every morning on Fox and Friends. And I want our 628 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: listeners to know we're going to have a link to 629 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: buy your book, The President of the Freedom Fighter on 630 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 1: our show page at Newtsworld dot com. And I want 631 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: to wish you and your family a merry Christmas and 632 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: a happy new Year. I got you. That's an exciting time. 633 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: Thanks so much. I appreciate it. Thanks so much for 634 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: your interest in your kind words. Thank you to my 635 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: guests Brian Kilmead. You can get a link to buy 636 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: his new book, The President and the Freedom Fighter Abraham Lincoln, 637 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas and their Battle to save America's Soul on 638 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: our show page at newtsworld dot com. Newts World is 639 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: produced by Gingwidge three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer 640 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: is Debbie Myers, our producer is Garnsey Sloan, and our 641 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was 642 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 1: created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at 643 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: Gingwish three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope 644 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us with 645 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: five stars and give us a review so others can 646 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 1: learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of Newtsworld 647 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: can sign up from my three free weekly columns at 648 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: Gingridge three sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm newt Gingridge. 649 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: This is Newtsworld.