1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: I feel very lucky to be at this table talking 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: about all this with you because I'm a pretty codependent person. 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: Let me get that out the door. Oh it's something 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: I'm working on right now. 5 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 2: Okay, three time, all right, And I don't. 6 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: Want to turn this interview into a therapy session, but 7 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:18,240 Speaker 1: if we go there. 8 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 2: You could. 9 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: I'm not mad about it. 10 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I've always described myself as codependent. It's basically a 11 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 3: part of my identity at this point. But what if 12 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 3: I didn't have to be this way? What if our 13 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 3: patterns don't have to be permanent. I'm hopewordered and welcome 14 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 3: to Boysover, a space where we're learning, and I'm learning 15 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 3: all the myths we're taught about love and relationships. Nedro 16 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 3: Glover to wob is a licensed therapist and best selling 17 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 3: author who just published herself seventh book, The Balancing Act, 18 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 3: which teaches us how to form relationships built on healthy dependence, 19 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 3: not codependence. God knows I need that, and. 20 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: Not just in my love life, in friendships, with my 21 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: family and with my romantic partners. I get lost way 22 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: too easily in relationships, and this is something I am 23 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: so ready to heal from. So when Nedra came into 24 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: the studio. I was really excited to sit down and 25 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: talk about it all. Nedra, Yes, welcome to boy so Sover. 26 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me here. 27 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 1: You are a social worker or like you studied social work? 28 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 2: Yes, social worker now a therapist. 29 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: Right, Yes, I studied social work in my undergrad ooh, 30 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: at the University of Tennessee. Okay, I thought I was 31 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: going to be a case manager in life. I thought 32 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: I was going to do a master's in social work. 33 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 2: Hence the codependency You got it, right, manager, Yeah, because 34 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 2: you're case managing people with codependency. Yeah, okay, you're a 35 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 2: nice connection. 36 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: My relationship with my mom, there was a lot of 37 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: caretaking there, and I think that's what sort of inspired 38 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: me to go on to like study social work and 39 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: and see because yeah, my relationships are sometimes helping relationships. 40 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: But they happened and I feel like really safe in 41 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: that dynamic or I have in the past. 42 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 2: You feel safe? Please explain the safety. Do you feel 43 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:39,119 Speaker 2: safe or do you feel like comfortable? That's like this 44 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 2: is like a normal thing. This is yeah, like this 45 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 2: is a part of the program. 46 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: It is a natural It's a knee jerk reaction for me. 47 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: A little something that has been a part of my 48 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: life for a long time. Is sort of like gravitating 49 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: towards relationships where I either one am like the emotional 50 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 1: caretaker and then sort of being codependent and the other 51 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 1: way in like a romantic relationship. 52 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 2: Where you're like helping someone just like be a human. 53 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: Where someone is either like completely helping me and I'm 54 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 1: codependent on them, or it is the opposite, where someone 55 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: is completely dependent on me emotionally. 56 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 2: And so the Balancing Act is a book that you 57 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 2: needed it sounds like twenty five years ago to undo 58 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 2: some of this programming. 59 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, your work in general resonates with me a 60 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: lot because I'm uncomfortable. I'm not well practiced in boundary setting, 61 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: and I would say the family I grew up in 62 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: is not well practiced in that. So I have sort 63 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: of like gone back and forth on what is the 64 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: best road to take when you have a family that 65 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: is dysfunctional in some way. 66 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 2: It depends on the person. I am in support of 67 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 2: people wanting a healthy life for themselves, and sometimes as 68 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 2: a result of the desire to have a healthier life, 69 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 2: they may decide to end a relationship that they can 70 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 2: no longer tolerate, or that has become unbearable for them 71 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 2: to be a Not all dysfunctional families operate the same. 72 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 2: Not all dysfunction is the same. So it is very 73 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 2: hard to have a general idea about what people should 74 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 2: do in their personal situations. And I do not tell 75 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 2: people what to do, which is sometimes shocking to be, Like, 76 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 2: you don't tell them to leave their families, because there's 77 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 2: this assumption. And I don't know what other therapists do. 78 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 2: If you know some who do it, please don't tell 79 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 2: me their names for nobody. But my clients make that 80 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 2: decision for themselves. I've made that decision for myself in 81 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 2: some scenarios, friends make that. You know, I'm not saying 82 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 2: to people, have you thought about not talking to your mom? 83 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 2: Because you may want to be in a situation and 84 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 2: when you think you're you have some solutions and you're 85 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 2: going to try this new thing. But when people get tired, 86 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 2: that's when they say I'm done with this relationship. What 87 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 2: I talk about in the balancing Gap is I think 88 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 2: some of our unhealthy relationships can be more bearable if 89 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 2: we deprioritize. 90 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 1: Them, say more. 91 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 2: You know, I think sometimes what I see is us 92 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 2: having an idealistic view of what the mother daughter relationship 93 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 2: should be like? For instance, right, like, so if my 94 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 2: mom doesn't do X, Y and Z, she can't even 95 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 2: be my mom anymore. Does she like to play cards? 96 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 2: Maybe she's the person you go play cards with totally, 97 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 2: I mean, remove this idea of mother. Maybe she has 98 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 2: some other qualities. And this nurturing that you're longing for 99 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 2: comes from your aunt m hm, somewhere else, someone else, 100 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 2: who else can nurture you. That could be a friend, 101 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 2: that could be your partner, that could be you know, like, 102 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 2: who else could it be? You're not going to get 103 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 2: it from this person? Right, Maybe one day she'll wake 104 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 2: up and do it, But she hasn't done it before 105 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 2: and she's not doing it now, right, So we need 106 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 2: to decenter, not just family in some case, well sometimes 107 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 2: our friends. Sometimes we have friends who are not fulfilling 108 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:19,280 Speaker 2: a need or expectation. 109 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: You have to take those steps, yes, Like you have 110 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: to put the expectation on yourself when it comes to connection. Sometimes. 111 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: I think sometimes we walk into rooms, or we walk 112 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: into relationships and we think, like, why aren't they meeting 113 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: me where I want to be met? But so often 114 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 1: I know. For me, I have a hard time expressing it. 115 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. The social statement is meet people where they are. 116 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 2: We don't like that. It's tough. It's like you, you know what, 117 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 2: Let me bring you up to where I I need 118 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 2: you over here to be right. And that's important and 119 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 2: social work because it's like sometimes we are working with 120 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 2: people who are incarcerated, we're working with people in a hospital, 121 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,679 Speaker 2: working with people in a school setting. So meet people 122 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 2: where they are. It's like, okay, you're talking to a 123 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 2: third grader. This is the expectation you can have of 124 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 2: this person. Right, if we thought about that with the 125 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 2: people in our lives, this is the expectation based on history, 126 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 2: based on what I know of this person. My expectations 127 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 2: are actually too high of you. 128 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: How does someone hold the line between sort of being 129 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: codependent and a personal relationship and meeting someone where they are. 130 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 2: Few things about codependency. I think when you have a 131 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 2: tendency to develop codependency and relationships, we take it on 132 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 2: like a personality trait. I'm a codependent person, right, I'm 133 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 2: a codependent person. So every relationship I get in, I've 134 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 2: been codependent. It's like, listen, it's not your blood type 135 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 2: stop this. I like that well. I liked in your book. 136 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: It gave me so much relief in your book when 137 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: you were like, first of all, codependency is not a 138 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: clinical term. 139 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 2: It's not a clinical term. 140 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: Then I loved you talking about how is it brought 141 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: up until the nineties. Like, I've been holding that as 142 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: a label recently, and it's made me feel like, oh gosh, 143 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: I'm just too much. 144 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 2: I wonder what else you could call yourself other than codependent. 145 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 2: When I see someone with high needs, the helper in 146 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 2: me wants to help them overcome. We don't have to 147 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 2: call that codependent. So I do a little more in 148 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:27,239 Speaker 2: those relationships to help them be well. 149 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: I'm assuming your work starts from a personal place. Most 150 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: therapists or social workers, we're all sort of coming into 151 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: this from a personal experience. So when did you feel 152 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: like you were able to really sort of like maintain 153 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: healthier boundaries, healthier relationships. 154 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 2: I feel like it's still a continuous life practice. I 155 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 2: don't think I get to the point of like, yeah, 156 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 2: I have maximized all boundaries. But when did I start. 157 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 2: I feel like I tried to start maybe in middle 158 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 2: school with my dad. That didn't work out so great. Sure, 159 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 2: right in high school, I tried again with my mom, 160 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 2: just saying very small things like I changed my diet 161 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 2: in high school and I was like, I cannot eat 162 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 2: red meat. I would make my own food, like separate 163 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 2: from hers, and she would be like, it's okay if 164 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 2: you eat beef. I'm like, I can't because I made 165 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 2: a decision, like you know, like oh, this is a 166 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 2: little boundary, and you know, just you can't smoke in 167 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 2: my room, like you know, just an evolution of little things. 168 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,199 Speaker 2: But I would say, seriously, you know, when I left 169 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 2: my mother's home, I was able to figure out like 170 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,719 Speaker 2: what sort of adult I wanted to be and how 171 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 2: I wanted people to show up in my world. So 172 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 2: I would say that's the time when I started to 173 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 2: exercise boundaries a lot more. And it's you know, I'm 174 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 2: still very much a listener and very much concerned about people, 175 00:09:53,600 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 2: but I also recognize relationships where I I have given 176 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 2: to people who haven't given back. And I don't think 177 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 2: relationships need to be fifty to fifty, but it certainly 178 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 2: can't be ninety. 179 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: Ten, right, and it needs to like EBB. 180 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 2: And flood, Yeah, you got to give up something you know. 181 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: And it's got to be like, Okay, sometimes someone can 182 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: sort of steer the ship and sometimes like that person, right. 183 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 2: I cannot get if I meant my voice ain't even 184 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 2: that reasonable something? So if I always have to be 185 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 2: the voice of reason, we're in trouble, Like I need 186 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 2: you to get it together on twenty days out of 187 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 2: three sixty five. Lord. So yeah, in those scenarios, I 188 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 2: have learned to pull back because it's like, I'm a helper, 189 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 2: but you know where it's better used writing these books, right, 190 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 2: seeing these clients talking to people in group settings. That's 191 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 2: where my helping is better utilized. It's not over here 192 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 2: with you and your man. And that mess is not 193 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 2: maximized on the person who offers very little. 194 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: It is not used out of necessity but choice. Yes, 195 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:27,599 Speaker 1: tell me, how does someone someone who struggles with setting boundaries, 196 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: who wants to maintain a relationship, Because I think you 197 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 1: mentioned this in your book, when the codependent person becomes 198 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: resentful or you're sick of it, and you're like, I 199 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: haven't said anything, but I've been quiet about my needs. 200 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: I've been emotionally holding you for so long and you've 201 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: never noticed. And so I think when you finally reach 202 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: that breaking point the person who you're in that relationship with, 203 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: they are absolutely shocked, you know. And so I reached 204 00:11:57,920 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: this sort of breaking point with a friend of mine 205 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,839 Speaker 1: and I just tried to pull back, like I had 206 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: no idea how to sort of like go towards that conversation. 207 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: I know you talk about conflict in here, go towards 208 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: that conflict. So what's your advice for someone who is 209 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: maybe in this enmeshed relationship and they want to save it, 210 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: you know, they want to be able to sort of 211 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: like manage it and not lose it completely, but they 212 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: don't really know how to go towards making it more reciprocal. 213 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 2: I don't know if the goal is to be more 214 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 2: reciprocal but allowed to not completely exist in it. I 215 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 2: can tell you what sort of worked for me is 216 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 2: noticing that is happening. Once I noticed, Like let's say 217 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 2: you're in and you're like, oh my gosh, it's been 218 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 2: five years, it's been two years or two months. I 219 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 2: might say something like, hey, I understand that you want 220 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 2: me to. I don't know, look at all these text 221 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 2: messages between you and this person that you're arguing with. 222 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 2: I just don't have the space right now, Yeah, to 223 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 2: do that. I do want to support you, so let 224 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 2: me give you, you know, you give them something else 225 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,199 Speaker 2: you could do. Let's meet for lunch and talk. 226 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: I don't want. 227 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 2: What you're saying is, don't text me this mess every day. 228 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: M M. 229 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 2: I will go to lunch. What you wants a day 230 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 2: where you get an hour and a half to yap. 231 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 2: Do not text me this every day? 232 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: Why do you think it is so much easier for 233 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: us to sort of just like avoid let them go 234 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: right and just sort of like cause I even think 235 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 1: about you know, I had like a new friendship sort 236 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: of pop up in life and I felt that like 237 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: enmeshed energy coming on, and I'm really attuned to it 238 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 1: now where I'm like, I'm not trying to sort of 239 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: like jump in that. 240 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 2: We don't want to hurt your feeling. 241 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: Right, And I'm like, I like this person, but i 242 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:49,199 Speaker 1: can sense sort of like the emotional need and I'm 243 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: not ready to be latched onto because I think that's 244 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: like a recipe that sort of for something to end 245 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: pretty quickly. But even me personally, I was never quite 246 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: able to say like, hey, they're coming on a little 247 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 1: strong and I love the language. I don't have the capacity, right. 248 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: Why is that conversation so hard to have? 249 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 2: Because we fear disappointing that person. We don't want people 250 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 2: to be upset at us. We think that the takeaway 251 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 2: for them would be that we don't care. And we 252 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 2: can affirm that I really care. This really seems like 253 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 2: a serious situation for you, like, I hope you move 254 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 2: through it. And here's what I can do, and here's 255 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 2: what I can't do. And so I'm not saying that 256 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 2: I don't want to be your sister or friend or 257 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 2: daughter or whatever my role is to you. I'm not 258 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 2: saying I don't want that. But what I'm saying is 259 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 2: I don't want our relationship to be what you're trying 260 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 2: to make it. So if that's something that you're needing 261 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 2: for me at this time, I cannot offer it, or 262 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 2: if you can't offer it. You know, one of the 263 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 2: things I mentioned in the Balancing Act is being able 264 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 2: to say to people that your capacity has changed, because 265 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 2: you know, three years ago, I didn't have the capacity 266 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 2: to do a bunch of social gatherings girls knights and 267 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 2: book clubs. I do now, and so I had to 268 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 2: go to my friends, you know, a few years ago, 269 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 2: and be like, hey, put me back on the invite list. 270 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 2: I walked myself off. I said I didn't have the time. 271 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 2: I have the time now, so we can change that 272 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 2: if people are open to it. 273 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm getting this word for word, 274 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: but I think you wrote we go towards what we 275 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: know and not what we want. My God. 276 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you have that history of people being inconsistent 277 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 2: with you, someone showing up and being inconsistent is like 278 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 2: the norm. This is like whoever else you've met thus inconsistent. 279 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 2: It's like I can see passes. Inconsistency not a big deal. 280 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 2: You need to start making inconsistency a very big deal 281 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 2: in my friendships. I don't want a relationship with anybody 282 00:15:55,800 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 2: that's not dependable. I'm not open to it. Close the door, instant, No, right, 283 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 2: because I grew up with people who aren't dependable, right, 284 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 2: So why would I recreate that scenario in relationships? I 285 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 2: choose so when I'm meeting friends and people start exhibiting, 286 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 2: you know, maybe early in a friendship, like you have 287 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 2: plans with somebody, they counsel last minute. Okay, maybe all right, 288 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 2: let's try this again, they do it again, they have 289 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 2: to cut. You're done. Yeah, and that's new, that's in 290 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 2: newer relationships. But I think how you do this is 291 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 2: probably how you will do things going into the future 292 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 2: of us. And I don't want to accept this behavior 293 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 2: now or in the future. This is the wrong person. 294 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 2: I can act securely in my relationships with the right people. 295 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 2: This isn't it. 296 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: Tell me how you go towards like really breaking those patterns, 297 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: because I know my patterns. I see them, I see 298 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: the recreating like over and over and over again, and 299 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: it's like, oh my god. What when am I gonna 300 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 1: sort of like have the wherewithal to, like you said, 301 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 1: go towards something I want? Where does someone begin? 302 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 2: What is one thing I can do different in this situation? 303 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: Yeah? 304 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 2: What have I done in the past? And what could 305 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 2: I do differently? I was just speaking with someone who 306 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 2: was giving their partner the silent treatment. They knew it 307 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 2: wasn't the appropriate thing to do, but in the past 308 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 2: that's what they do when they get upset. I'm gonna 309 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 2: give you the silent treatment. I'm gonna storm off. You're 310 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 2: gonna be so sad that I'm not talking to you. 311 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 2: That you know, you'll apologize first, like this whole little 312 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 2: control thing, and it's like, is that appropriate behavior? No, 313 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 2: it's not appropriate behavior. What would be appropriate in this situation? 314 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 2: If I did X, Y and Z do that? Oh 315 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 2: that feel so horrible? Do I don't want to do that? Well, 316 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 2: here's the thing. Mm, you can't change your behavior if 317 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 2: you don't change your behavior. I'm not talking about what 318 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 2: feels comfortable. I'm talking about in this scenario, what is 319 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 2: the appropriate thing to do. I'm not talking about your feelings. 320 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 2: I'm talking about what needs to be done for repair. 321 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:23,199 Speaker 2: Do you want to stand on your pride or do 322 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 2: you actually want to repair it? Because right now your 323 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 2: behavior is saying I'm gonna lean towards this pride, I'm 324 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 2: not gonna come up off of this. 325 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: And it's sneaky. Yeah, I mean all of your sort 326 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: of like habits and patterns are so sneaky. Oh yeah, 327 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: they show up and you're like, it's back, like I'm 328 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 1: acting like this again. 329 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 2: We have to correct ourselves, you know. I think when 330 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 2: you're codependent sometimes it's so second nature to just jump 331 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 2: in and help. I used to have this thing where 332 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 2: you know, somebody might text me, hey, I'm having this 333 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,120 Speaker 2: hard time with such and such, can I borrow blah 334 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 2: blah blah, And I would respond right now, I'm on 335 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 2: a twenty four hour hold. What I have found was 336 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 2: my twenty four hour hold is in twenty four hours, 337 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 2: they typically don't need it for me. They have figured 338 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 2: it out for themselves. So that has given me the 339 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 2: energy to quickly say no, because I know you can 340 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 2: go to somebody else. We've done this three times, practice 341 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 2: the twenty four hour hold three times on you. It 342 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 2: worked every time. It's something that you can figure out, 343 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 2: but you don't want to in that moment, and so 344 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 2: you're using me. 345 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: Something you're making me think of is just the ability 346 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: to sort of like move slow right and get comfortable 347 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:47,719 Speaker 1: with not doing something immediately someone coming to you and 348 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,640 Speaker 1: needing something, or you. 349 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 2: Know, are they even asking right? That's another thing I 350 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 2: wonder about when I hear people talk I'm codependent and 351 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 2: they need me? Have they acts? Because sometimes you're feeling 352 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 2: a need that no one has asked you to feel. 353 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 1: Well, we love to anticipate. Yeah, We sort of like 354 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 1: love that feeling of like ooh, getting something out of 355 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 1: someone before they even knew it about themselves. Yeah, of 356 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: course you never asked me to listen to you talk 357 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: about your family for an hour. I knew you needed it. Yeah, 358 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: I know, you know, And like, like I said, that 359 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,439 Speaker 1: sort of goes back to this, you know, way of 360 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,159 Speaker 1: interacting in a relationship where it's like do you like 361 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,959 Speaker 1: the person you're in a relationship with or do you 362 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 1: like who you get to be when you're in that relationship. 363 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 2: You know, as you were talking, I was thinking about 364 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 2: a scenario where this woman was dating this guy. She 365 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,400 Speaker 2: goes over his house and she says, oh my gosh, 366 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 2: like I stay the night at his house. He didn't 367 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 2: have quality pillows, he didn't have a good comforter, So 368 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 2: she buys him this stuff. He's not very appreciative. You know, 369 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 2: she's going to his house to cook. No, but he 370 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,680 Speaker 2: doesn't cook, and blah blah blah. It's like, nobody asks 371 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 2: you to do this stuff. If this guy was eating 372 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 2: Vianna sausages and sleeping, go on, throw pillows and a 373 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 2: block right care right? 374 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: What? Yeah? Wait? 375 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,959 Speaker 2: But that you know, sometimes that's how we do. We 376 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 2: show up in this scenario and they're like, oh my gosh, 377 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 2: this person three hundred third count you need a better pillow, 378 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 2: you need it, and it's like nobody asks for that. 379 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 2: Let them sleep on that air mattress and you go 380 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 2: back to your house and you sleep on your Casper mattress. Right, 381 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 2: that's their business. 382 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: What is that? You know? 383 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 2: It goes back to the feeling that I get. This 384 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 2: person is going to be so happy, they're gonna like 385 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 2: me more, They're going to and sometimes they do, they're like, 386 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:42,959 Speaker 2: oh my gosh. But sometimes they're just thank you, And 387 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 2: it's not enough for us. That need doesn't get fulfilled 388 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 2: because we have to wonder why we have the need. 389 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 2: Why do I have the need to be praised for 390 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 2: doing stuff for people they didn't even ask for it. 391 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 2: Why do I have that need? 392 00:21:58,240 --> 00:21:59,120 Speaker 1: Where does that come from? 393 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 2: Where does that come from? 394 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: Talk to me about maintaining a connection with depth, but 395 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: a connection that is healthy. 396 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. So I'm finding more and more that we need 397 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 2: to be intentional about our connections. We need to plan time, 398 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 2: which seems so unreasonable, right to be like every Thursday, 399 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 2: Like I have a call every Thursday seven thirty with 400 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 2: two of my friends every single Thursday. That allows us 401 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 2: to have consistent communication, to have a dedicated catch up 402 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 2: session versus these scenarios of I meant to call so 403 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 2: and so. No, I'm connecting with this person all the time. 404 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,959 Speaker 2: If you're in a relationship, every Friday we're going on 405 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 2: a date. If you have kids, if you have friends 406 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 2: that you want to stay in contact with, if you 407 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 2: have parents, like whatever that is. We need to dedicate 408 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 2: time to connection. We have to focus on things that 409 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 2: we actually like to do together. So when we're spending 410 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 2: time together, it is connective. It's not just quantity time. 411 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 2: It's also quality time. And we don't like to do 412 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 2: everything with everybody, right, and so figuring out like, oh, 413 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,199 Speaker 2: my thing with Jen is this my thing with Kyle? 414 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,640 Speaker 2: Is this doing those things with those people and not 415 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 2: using everybody as oh, we have to do all the 416 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 2: things together. 417 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 1: And not putting everyone in the same box. I think 418 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 1: something that I have a hard time with Sometimes I 419 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 1: feel like it's a failure when I don't bring a 420 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: relationship past a certain sort of like emotional threshold. And 421 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 1: so keeping those relationships and knowing when to bring in 422 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: and when to let exist maybe at a further distance, 423 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: can you tell me the difference between enmeshment and intimacy. 424 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 2: Enmeshment is when we can't have any separate ideas, thoughts, values, anything, 425 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 2: because sometimes some values are harmful to humans and some 426 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 2: are just different. Our values might be around, you know, 427 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 2: how we want to show up in life, who we 428 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 2: want to support, who we don't want to support, what 429 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 2: we want for our lives, like those sort of things. 430 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 2: And sometimes when we're in relationships and we are a 431 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 2: bit different from another person, like oh, I don't want kids, 432 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 2: or I prefer to live in a city and not 433 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,199 Speaker 2: a rural area like some you know, basic things, people 434 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 2: can lose relationships to that because it can become such 435 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 2: a sticking point that you want this different thing than 436 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 2: what they want. 437 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: I have an example, Okay, I have a friendship that 438 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 1: we are enmeshed. We've been friends for ten years, okay, 439 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: and I realize just sort of how deeply we were tied. 440 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,159 Speaker 1: The other day, I was sort of like having a 441 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: breakdown about my life. What am I going to do? 442 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,479 Speaker 1: Should I go back to school, Should I finally get 443 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: a master's in social work? Should da da da da? 444 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: You know? And my friend didn't quite give me the 445 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: answer that I knew I wanted in the back of 446 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: my mind, and I thought, I realized, like, oh he 447 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: sees my life in a way differently than I do, 448 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: and that was like so heartbreaking to me, and our 449 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: fight kind of escalated, and I overreact emotionally from time 450 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 1: to time. 451 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:37,479 Speaker 2: Do you apologize after you all? 452 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 1: I always apologize, but I'm doing a lot of apologizing recently. 453 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 2: Okay, well that's good, that's great. 454 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: But when I overreact, something that I do is I 455 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: block a number quickly and I delete a text thread quickly. 456 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: And so I was so mad at my best friend 457 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: ten years love him to death, and I delete our 458 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: text thread and it gives me the option like do 459 00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: you want to remove your location from him? Yes or no? 460 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: And I was like yes, And it was a power move, 461 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: like that was me saying something without saying something. And 462 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: he didn't say anything about it until about a week 463 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: after the fact. He's like, did you remove your location? 464 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: And I was being really shady about it, like, well, 465 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: I mean it kind of happened because I deleted your 466 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 1: text threat. And he was like, well, did you do 467 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 1: it on purpose? Yes or no? And I was like, well, yeah, 468 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: I did do it on purpose, and then he blocked 469 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: me on Instagram. He hasn't spoken to me in like 470 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: four weeks. He just unblocked me last night. And this 471 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: happens all the time, like not all the time with him. 472 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 1: We're both just very emotional and very codependent. But I 473 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: realized one thing I'm good at is an audio message, 474 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,400 Speaker 1: an apology, and an audio message. And I sent him 475 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,439 Speaker 1: one that was like, you know what, I realized that 476 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:53,399 Speaker 1: your opinion means so much to me, and that I 477 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: have a hard time thinking that my opinion holds more 478 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: value than anyone else's, you know, Like I sort of 479 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: realized like I have his opinion and his approval, and 480 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: I thought this was only with men that I was 481 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: in like romantic relationships with That's the genesis of this 482 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: show boy sober sort of stepping away from codependent romantic relationships. 483 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,920 Speaker 1: And I guess I realized, like, oh wow, I think 484 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: this is in every corner of my life. I value someone. 485 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 2: Else's belief of course, yea, And if they don't, it's threatening. 486 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: And he didn't, and I exploded. It was just this 487 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: big realization for me of like, why is that not 488 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 1: something that. 489 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 2: He could disagree with you? Yeah, like people can disagree 490 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 2: with me. We should be able to talk through things. 491 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 2: That is a healthy way of approaching these things, and 492 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 2: I think sometimes with enmeshment it's unfortunate because it's like, 493 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 2: if you don't think exactly like me about every single thing, 494 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 2: we cannot be in his relationship. If you don't feel 495 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 2: how I feel about this thing, we cannot be in 496 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 2: his relationship. 497 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: I think something that came up for me in this 498 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 1: scenario was a question of self trust. And I do 499 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 1: think in people who have a tendency to be codependent, 500 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 1: there's like a real deep lack of self trust and 501 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: confidence in your own opinion, in your own way. So 502 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,680 Speaker 1: like maybe this situation where someone's dating someone or someone's 503 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: trying to integrate into a new family and they don't 504 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: relate or they don't understand, and so they're getting upset 505 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: about it. I feel like there's something about being able 506 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: to like trust yourself and say, well, it's okay that 507 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: I am different. Would you say that's true? And if so, 508 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: I guess I'm also wondering if you have any advice 509 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: on building that level of self trust. 510 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 2: It's okay that I'm different. I think we're all different, 511 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 2: and I think it's important and to recognize that and 512 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 2: to not over label things. I think we've gotten so 513 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 2: heavy into the label of something instead of what is 514 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 2: the actual behavior of this thing? And is there some 515 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 2: behavior that's problematic? Some things are just not even problematic, 516 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 2: like what we call a relationship where a parent is 517 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 2: taking care of their special needs adult child codependent. No, 518 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 2: we wouldn't. No, So I think sometimes it's like, Okay, yeah, 519 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 2: like this person has an issue, But in that person's mind, 520 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 2: I guess what they're doing, They're helping their child. And 521 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 2: that's how some people think about it. 522 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: You talk about people being needy, and you've said, maybe 523 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: we should be a little bit needy. Can you speak 524 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: to that? 525 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, we are all needy, and we will always be needy. 526 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 2: We will probably get more needy as we aid. We 527 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 2: certainly were super needy when we were younger, and it 528 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 2: kind of levels off some and then we go back 529 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 2: to being really needy. It's a part of life. We 530 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 2: don't exist in a world without assistance, help and support 531 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,239 Speaker 2: from other people. No matter how much we try to 532 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 2: be self made independent, we need other people for food, 533 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 2: for water, for emotional support, for hugs, for all the things. 534 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,959 Speaker 2: And if we don't recognize that and own it and 535 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 2: really embrace the power of what healthy dependency can be. 536 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 2: We experience lots of loneliness because we're trying to fight 537 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 2: that need of wanting things from other people or even 538 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 2: desiring it, And so that's when we get into this 539 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 2: like unhealthy dependency thing because we're like, you know what, 540 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 2: I don't need people, Yes, you do. 541 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: What you're talking about? What you're making me think about? Is? 542 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: I feel like, correct me if I'm wronger tell me 543 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: if you disagree. I feel like culturally we start laughing. 544 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 2: I don't want to be black. 545 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: Imagine couple on my phone right now. 546 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 2: I couldn't black, right done. 547 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: I feel like there's a more negative connotation around being 548 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: codependent than there is around being hyperdependent, right, and to 549 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: be hyperdependent is the opposite, right, Yeah, it's like prace, 550 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 1: uh huh. Yeah, you're like, I'm doing everything on my own. 551 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: I am not at all needy. I've checked all my 552 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: boxes and I don't need anybody. It's probably not very 553 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: helpful to ask which one is worse, But do you 554 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: think culturally we sort of look at one like it's 555 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: worse than the other, when maybe when maybe they're kind 556 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: of just one and the same. 557 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 2: They're two at the same coin, right, I think the 558 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 2: outcome is the same. The outcome is loneliness. On either 559 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,239 Speaker 2: end of the spectrum, a hyper dependent person is not 560 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 2: getting their needs met and a hyper independent person is 561 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 2: also not getting their needs met. One is because they're overhelping, 562 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 2: and the other is because they have no resources or 563 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 2: they're not seeking the support. But the feeling of not 564 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 2: having support is the same in their body, is the 565 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 2: same impact on their diminished lifespan because they don't have 566 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 2: this support. Loneliness, some research was done, is equivalent on 567 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 2: your body to smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. 568 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 2: So either end of the spectrum, you're having that impact 569 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 2: because if you're codependent, you don't have anybody to depend 570 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 2: on because this person you're constantly helping, whether it's needed 571 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 2: or not. I don't want to focus on whether it's 572 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 2: necessary for you to help this person because sometimes people 573 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 2: are like, well they need me, that could be true. 574 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 2: Let's say they need you when you need something you 575 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 2: don't have support. 576 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. You've given me a bit of an epiphany 577 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: that I think so many couples come in together with 578 00:32:55,680 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: that dynamic where one is hyper independent and the other 579 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 1: one is codependent and I've never quite put that together. 580 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: That like the loneliness and the feeling and your body 581 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: is the same, you know, feeling like you can't reach 582 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: out for help, like you can't communicate correctly or clearly 583 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: what it is that you need. And it makes me 584 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: see things so differently. Yeah, because I think I find 585 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: myself in these relationships often where one is like overproducing, 586 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: one is underproducing, one is super independent, the other one 587 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: is dependent. Like how do those two sides move closer together? 588 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: How do you get towards the middle? 589 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 2: You have to recognize yourself in the scenario and do 590 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 2: your part. We can't get other people to do their parts. 591 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 2: Like a person can depend on us for something, but 592 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 2: if we change what we're willing to give, their dependency 593 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 2: eventually diminishes because they can't get that from us anymore. Right, 594 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 2: you know, it's one of these things where we feel 595 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 2: like everybody in the scenario has to change, and it's 596 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 2: like you are a huge part of this process, Like 597 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 2: there are so many things that you yourself could do that 598 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 2: could change this dynamic and this other person they will 599 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,919 Speaker 2: get with the program. You just have to give them 600 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 2: something to get with. 601 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,359 Speaker 1: And we're not like that you're not like that. 602 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 2: We're not offering that rules change all the time totally. 603 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 2: Things come up and they change as the result of 604 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 2: our different needs. So it's not like, you know, if 605 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 2: I have this this rule in a relationship, I have 606 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,720 Speaker 2: to stick with it. Now there's somebody right now taping 607 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 2: a rule up on some some wall somewhere because of 608 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 2: something happening. So you have to say, oh, yesterday I 609 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 2: woke up and I realized that I never asked people 610 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 2: for anything. I have to change that. 611 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,799 Speaker 1: Okay, you said not asking equals not receiving. Can you 612 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:55,879 Speaker 1: just speak to that a little bit. 613 00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. Sometimes we have this idea that people can read 614 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 2: your mind and they can figure out what you want, 615 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,320 Speaker 2: when in actuality, you need to be very clear and 616 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 2: let them know. In some cases, I mean, it's great 617 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 2: when people are able to like, okay, she likes black 618 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,280 Speaker 2: shirts with ruffles, like, it's great when people figure that out. 619 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 2: But it doesn't mean they're a bad person when they don't. 620 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 2: That's just not their gift. They're not able to pick 621 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 2: up on things, and that's okay. So you have a 622 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 2: mouth and you can say to a person, hey, you 623 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 2: know I would like this, or I need this, or 624 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,359 Speaker 2: can you help me with that? But to assume that 625 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 2: people know, I think that's unfair. You know, I think 626 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 2: about the idea that many of us are busy, and 627 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 2: so this assumption that I saw you carrying four bags 628 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 2: when I was actually looking at my cell phone, like 629 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 2: why didn't you help me? I didn't even know you 630 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,719 Speaker 2: needed help. You didn't say to me, hey, can you 631 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 2: help me? And it could be as simple as that. 632 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 2: And we're ready to like dismiss a person, be mad 633 00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 2: at them because they didn't help us with our bags? 634 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 2: Did you add that's for help? I'm looking at my phone. 635 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 2: I'm not even paying attention to you. 636 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: You're really reading me right now, like you really, like 637 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: really like, uh yeah, I can tell a hundred stories 638 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:15,439 Speaker 1: about like holding ten bags next to Again, this best 639 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 1: friend that I and I said something that sort of 640 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,719 Speaker 1: escalated our fight the other day is I said to him, 641 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 1: maybe you can be intuitive and he really didn't like that. 642 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. You're gonna have to send another voice, no, 643 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 2: said you gotta send another voice no, to talk about 644 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,439 Speaker 2: how you made a mistake in saying that, because yeah, 645 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 2: that's yeah, what. 646 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 1: Do you think that was? Tell me, what's your take 647 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 1: on that. 648 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,760 Speaker 2: I'm gonna be seen. I have not been seen purely 649 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:47,879 Speaker 2: by people, and I want them to see me. I 650 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,799 Speaker 2: want people to know my knees without me having to 651 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,880 Speaker 2: tell them. I want people to make me feel special 652 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,279 Speaker 2: by intuiting what I need. 653 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,760 Speaker 1: Hmmm, you're gonna make me cry? Yeah. 654 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 2: Like, and sometimes people, so what we put on other 655 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,359 Speaker 2: people is our stuff, right. I've never had anybody plan 656 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 2: a birthday party for me. So it's like, you know, 657 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 2: you have this friend, you're dating this person, and you're like, 658 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 2: they have to do it. You know, it is not 659 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 2: our thing. But guess who should have planned a party? 660 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 2: Your parents? Right, you didn't have a birthday party. All 661 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,920 Speaker 2: this stuff, it just it comes up in these other people, 662 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 2: like I have not felt special. This is an opportunity 663 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 2: for this person. I have to do this thing and 664 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:32,839 Speaker 2: that's a lot for them. 665 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you are really like hitting all these 666 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: spots for me. Just yeah, I feel very lucky to 667 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 1: be at this table talking about all this with you, 668 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: because this podcast is ultimately meant to be about love, 669 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 1: how to love better, how to be in relationships better, 670 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:56,360 Speaker 1: how to hold relationships at an appropriate space, and something 671 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,839 Speaker 1: we ask everybody is. What is one thing you've had 672 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: to unlearn about love. 673 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:05,560 Speaker 2: That it needs to be perfect to be good? Good 674 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,279 Speaker 2: love requires a whole lot of grace. Yeah, because the 675 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,879 Speaker 2: people you love the most are the most annoying as well. 676 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: It's like fifty fifty yeah, Oh my gosh. 677 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,440 Speaker 2: Anytime my mom comes to visit the level of patience 678 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:25,480 Speaker 2: that I have, I deserve a shopping trip after I 679 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,399 Speaker 2: like the way I was helping her with that cell 680 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,880 Speaker 2: phall and I maintained my composure. 681 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, take me the sex and maybe you treat 682 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: yourself for it. 683 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 2: I deserve a Lamborghini something for that level of patience 684 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:45,799 Speaker 2: because I was I was talking slowly, I was not condescending, 685 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 2: but just like, mom, have you have you tried to 686 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,880 Speaker 2: turn your phone off and turn it back on? Like 687 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:53,240 Speaker 2: using all my tools? 688 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 1: Oh my god. 689 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 2: So yeah, I think love requires a lot of grace 690 00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,239 Speaker 2: because just like I don't know what I don't know 691 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 2: what I'm doing right. You know, I tell my kids 692 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 2: that my daughters are twelve and nine, and I say 693 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 2: to them, this is my first time being a parent, 694 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 2: right is this? You know? 695 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:14,520 Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm doing all the time, right? 696 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 2: And if we can acknowledge that with other people that 697 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 2: we love and want to be in relationships with, we 698 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 2: can have better conversations with them because they don't know 699 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 2: what they're doing either. They just saying and doing silly stuff, 700 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,760 Speaker 2: and you know, it's like, you know what, You're still cute, 701 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 2: but us who you annoy me. 702 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: I'm excited to send another voice memo to my friends. 703 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:35,719 Speaker 2: I love that. 704 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:37,320 Speaker 1: Thank you for coming in. 705 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:38,359 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. 706 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 1: Oh my god, you really almost made me cry for 707 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: a second. Thank you so much. 708 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 2: You're welcome. 709 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,040 Speaker 1: It's so reassuring to hear that we can change and 710 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,360 Speaker 1: maybe even heal a relationship we were on the brink 711 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 1: of losing. I'm going to keep doing the exercises and 712 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 1: if book and I recommend you all go pick up 713 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 1: The Balancing Act at your nearest bookstore. Thanks so much 714 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 1: for listening, and I'll talk to y'all next week. Boy 715 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:24,960 Speaker 1: Sover is a production of iHeart Podcasts. I'm Your Host Hopewordard. 716 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:29,759 Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Christina Everett and Julie Pinero. Our 717 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 1: supervising producer is Emily Meronoff. Our assistant producer is Logan Palau. 718 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: Engineering by Bahid Fraser and mixing and mastering by Abu Zafar. 719 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 1: If you liked this episode, please tell a friend and 720 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,320 Speaker 1: don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to boy Sober 721 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, and wherever you get 722 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:53,080 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.