WEBVTT - The Dangers of Public WiFi 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.240 Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production of I Heart Radios 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:14.120 How Stuff Works. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:17.119 I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. Forgot my own name for 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.320 a second. I'm an executive producer at iHeart Radio and 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.440 I love all things tech. And you know, uh, there's 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:24.880 a there's a topic that I really wanted to cover 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:27.680 because as I record this, we're in the holiday season. 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:31.080 A lot of people are traveling, They're going through airports, 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:34.240 maybe you're visiting family, and occasionally you need to find 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:38.960 a place to be elsewhere, like maybe a coffee shop 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:41.839 or something. That typically means we're carrying our devices with us, 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:44.720 and then we want to connect to different networks, but 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:48.000 that might not always be a great idea, And so 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:49.680 I decided I was going to do an episode all 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:54.040 about the best ways to browse the Internet with privacy 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:56.920 and safety in mind, going from the least private and 0:00:56.960 --> 0:00:59.680 the least secure to perhaps the most private and most 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:02.480 secure here. And then I thought, hey, you dumb, dumb. 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:06.280 You know people who are extremely well versed in this topic, 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:10.840 and that's why I invited my good friend, the phenomenal 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:14.280 Shannon Morris to join this episode. To come back so 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:18.720 welcome back to Tech Stuff, Shannon. Thank you so much. Jonathan. 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:20.800 I'm so excited to be back on the show. How 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:24.200 are you doing. I'm tired. But it's at the end 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:26.680 of the year, so that always happens, right, like, And 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:30.000 here's the thing, you know, Shannon can tell you. In fact, 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:32.240 we were just talking about it before we went on 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:36.319 to the record, that the tech journalists life does not 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:40.000 get easier at the end of the year because you 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:43.440 immediately turned around and head off to Vegas for c 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:46.840 E S. And that's where you're gonna be in early January, 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:50.360 as I understand it, right, Shannon, Yes, I will. I'll 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:53.600 be there all week covering everything over on my channel, 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:56.919 So make sure to link everybody to my channel later, absolutely, 0:01:56.920 --> 0:02:01.560 because I ain't going folks. So Shannon's your your destination 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:05.280 for finding all the really cool stuff. And uh, Shannon, 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:07.800 I can say from experience because I've watched her work 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:11.920 does amazing work, not just at CES but everywhere, but 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:15.799 particularly like under a high stress situation like CES, certain 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:19.520 people can light up under the camera. And uh, I'm 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:23.320 frankly envious of your ability to do so. So um 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:27.280 that's me being nice. Yeah, well, I mean, I could 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:30.080 be more caddy about it, but I'm gonna be nice. 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:33.800 The caddy would be like, how dare she? How dare 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:37.079 she show me up? But no, we're gonna talk about 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:40.359 browsing safely. So the first thing I wanted to do 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:45.000 before we get into the spectrum of browsing the Internet, 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:49.560 because you could argue that there's like the least safe, secure, 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:54.080 naive way to do it to what is perhaps the 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:58.160 most secure but not perfect. There's no perfect solution spoiler alert. 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:00.400 Before we get into any of that, I wanted to 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:03.120 talk about some stats, and these come from a few 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:07.560 different sources. Uh. One was a survey that was conducted 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:11.800 by one World Identity back in eighteen about public WiFi. 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:15.080 So this was just asking people about their perception and 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:17.480 their use of public WiFi. And Shannon, I kind of 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:21.440 wanted to get your reaction to this because being someone 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:25.200 who has been so entrenched in data security, in the 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:29.200 hacker culture, in you know, everything from how do we 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.320 make these systems more secure? To the white hat approach 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:35.200 of how do we find any vulnerability so that they 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:38.360 can be patched, to even the black hat culture where 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:41.840 people are exploiting this for their own gain. I wanted 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:44.920 to see what you thought about these stats. So the 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:48.840 first one was they asked a question to people in 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:51.800 the United States, in Germany, and in France, and the 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:56.160 question they asked was, do you ever use unsecured public 0:03:56.200 --> 0:04:01.160 WiFi networks? In the United States? Forty percent, so nearly 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:04.360 half said, you know, if there's no other option, sure, 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:07.640 I'll do it. Thirty two percent actually said I prefer 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:12.320 using public WiFi to using my cellular plan, presumably because 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:16.919 they would not be billed for data usage right because 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:21.200 they're using WiFi instead of their cell data only said 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:23.479 they never did it. One percent said they do it, 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.040 but only with a VPN. But we'll cover VPNs a 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:30.160 little bit later. So, Shannon, you've you've talked with hackers. 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:33.440 What do you think their reaction initially would be hearing 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:37.160 that nearly fifty of people in the United States said yeah, 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:40.080 you know, if there's no other connection, I'll I'll connect 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:43.400 to public WiFi, and another thirty two percent and I said, oh, heck, yeah, 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:48.360 sign me up. Well, I'm definitely in the one percent 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:52.320 of only with a VPN, and and that's assuming that 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:55.159 I have absolutely no other option. So I'm kind of 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:58.840 a mix of the and the one percent, but only 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:02.000 only if I have a VP n UM. I would 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:05.120 say from my experience, all of my friends would probably 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:09.760 not be surprised by the that prefer public WiFi over 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:13.839 their cellular plants, specifically because of what you said. They'll 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:15.920 be able to save money, especially if they don't have 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:19.440 an unlimited plan through their mobile carrier. So in that way, 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:23.120 it makes sense, uh that say yes, if there's no 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:26.839 other option, there's always another option. Come on, folks, what 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:30.320 are you doing? Where are you at? I mean, we 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:34.200 we have such good cellular coverage now there's always another option, 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:37.159 even if you just have three G like that's manageable 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:41.359 from most tasks. So what what are they doing? I'm 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:44.200 just my draw My job kind of dropped a little 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:46.000 bit when I heard that number. I just thought it 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:49.200 was I thought that I'm doing a much better job 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:53.240 of educating people about the importance of not using public WiFi, 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:55.960 and apparently I'm not doing my job as well as 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.599 I should have been, or or the people who are 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:01.640 already kind of hip to it are the ones watching you, going, yeah, 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:04.680 she gets it, she knows, and the people who need 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:08.480 to see it are like, what's on the masked Singer 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:11.600 today or whatever, you know, like, so, yeah, I I 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:13.240 look at this and I think, man if I were 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:15.320 a black hat, I would just be doing the Mr 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:20.080 Burns excellent gesture over and over again, just drooling at 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:26.240 that opportunity, because you know, public WiFi is definitely the 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:29.920 most dangerous option you can pick when you're talking about 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:32.680 protecting your own privacy and security, especially if you're not 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:36.360 doing something like using a VPN uh spoiler alert will 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:40.240 talk more about that in a second. And so knowing 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:45.839 that you're your opportunity for targets is so vast has 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:50.159 got to be incredibly encouraging to someone who is ready 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:53.279 to exploit that. And that's really, you know, that's what 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:56.279 we're trying to protect everyone against, is you know, it's 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:59.000 the likelihood of you running into these situations is not 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:01.880 necessarily hot on a day to day basis, but the 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:05.440 opportunity is so huge that you need to take it 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:08.360 into account no matter where you happen to be. So 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:11.680 you you want to make yourself the hard target. You 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:14.600 want to be the person that makes people work really 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:17.160 hard to get access to your data. You don't want 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:19.679 to be the easy target, because the easier target you are, 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:22.560 the more often you're going to be targeted. You don't 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:25.800 want that. No, No, And I was actually talking to 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:28.840 a co worker today and I said, honestly, when you 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:32.080 look at data security, even when you're talking like, you 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:35.480 always get naysayers who will say, oh, sure you can 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:38.320 use this, but it doesn't protect you against everything. And 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:41.680 they may technically be right, but my answer is the 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:44.560 harder you make it effectively, what that means is you're 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:49.040 making it more expensive for someone to successfully target you. 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:52.080 So if you price yourself out where it would cost 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:55.360 them more to break your security, then they would get 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.600 from whatever they took from you. You win, because no 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:02.240 one's going to lose money on that. Uh exactly. It's 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:05.800 when you've made it so convenient that it's like it's 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:08.520 like it's like when someone says about a sale, I 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.000 would lose money if I didn't buy that. That's when 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:15.160 you're in trouble. Yes, exactly. It's they're looking for the 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:18.640 bargain deal. And a lot of times when a black 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:21.800 hat is looking at public WiFi as a way to 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:26.440 access information, they're in tending to profit off of that information, 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:30.080 whether by stealing an idea, identity or reselling that data 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.840 on the black market, like on the dark web. So 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:37.400 making yourself the hard target is absolutely crucial to helping 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:40.679 to protect you. Yeah, and and just so that you 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:43.200 guys out there, no, I mean I mentioned the United 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:46.959 States numbers. It's not like Germany and France were shining 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:51.439 examples of data privacy and security among the public. In Germany, 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:56.480 in fact of respondent said they'd used unsecured, unsecured public 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:59.400 WiFi over their cellular data. So it was even a 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.160 larger centers than the United States and the United United States, 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:04.439 it was that thirty two percent it said, oh yeah, 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:06.880 if I've got a choice, I'll use public over my 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:10.560 cellular data. In Germany it was forty six percent um 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:13.000 and percent said they would use it if they could 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:16.640 not get a cellular option. And then in France it 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:19.920 was closer to what the United States said, said they 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:23.439 preferred using public WiFi to using their cellular data and 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.319 forty percent said they'd used it if they couldn't get 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:30.679 any other option. So again that mirrored very closely what 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.240 the folks in the United States said. So this is 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:35.400 a trend that goes beyond the US. I know that 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:38.320 because I'm centered in the US. I often get very 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:42.080 US centric, and I also tend to harp on how 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:46.640 American citizens in particular seemed to come across to me 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:52.040 as being security illiterate. For in a in large part, 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:54.360 I mean, I just see it all the time, but 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:57.360 I don't know if it's not exactly reassuring to see 0:09:57.360 --> 0:09:59.280 that's that way in other parts of the world. That 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:01.840 doesn't film me with confidence. I think a lot of 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:06.160 times people either don't know where to look for the information, 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:10.959 for accessible information that's that that's explained in a way 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:16.160 that isn't scary, or doesn't you know, create create emotions 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:19.480 of paranoia, or just close people down so that they 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:23.640 just get lose interest insecurity. Uh. And you also have 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:25.560 a lot of folks out there that just don't care. 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:27.959 But I think a lot of people do care, they 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:30.559 just don't know where to look for this kind of information. 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:33.680 So I'm glad that you, Jonathan, as well as myself 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:36.680 on my channel, we're putting that information out there in 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:39.280 a way that's easy to understand, and I'm hoping that 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:42.360 even if it just helps one person understand a little 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:45.640 bit better security and privacy, hopefully we change that percentage 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:50.320 over time. Absolutely, I agree. I think, uh, it can 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:53.839 be one of those situations where you get overwhelmed by 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:58.520 the scope of something. And when you get overwhelmed, it's 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:00.920 almost like there's a defense mechanism them in your brain, right, 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:03.640 it's like this is too hard, so I can't worry 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:07.480 about it. And I have seen this in action when 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:10.920 trying to tell people about like password managers, for example, 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:13.080 and they just shut down. They have no interest, They 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:15.600 get glassy eyed, and they just say, well, I don't 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:17.760 see what the point is. And I try to explain 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:20.240 the point, but as after that point, it's just it's 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:23.680 just like talking through talking through the air. They just 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:25.520 don't want anything to do with it. And and as 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:30.320 someone who relies heavily on a password manager like it is, 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:34.679 it's it's fundamentally one of the most important tools in 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:38.640 my toolbox to make certain that I don't do rookie 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:42.319 mistakes like using the same password for multiple accounts. Right. 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:45.880 Because as as we'll discuss as we get into this 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:49.160 discussion about safely browsing the Internet, one of the big 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:53.720 dangers is that if you through accident or or your 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:56.360 tricked or whatever, if you somehow share your log in 0:11:56.360 --> 0:12:00.520 information for one service. Let's say that you have one 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:05.199 service that isn't using uh secure encryption for some reason. 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:07.720 First of all, don't do that. But if you are, 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:10.800 if you're using that same password anywhere else, it's like 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:15.240 you just handed a skeleton key to somebody, because now 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:18.360 they can access everything you've used that password with. I mean, 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.640 this is this is blatantly obvious. So that's why it's 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:24.720 so important to have unique, strong passwords for all the 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.720 different services you use. That way, if one, if worst 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:33.800 case scenario one gets compromised, it doesn't compromise everything else. Yes, absolutely, 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:37.640 I'm glad you mentioned that because the more different things 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:41.520 that you use that help your security and privacy, every 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:45.520 single step you take absolutely helps. And that's just one 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:48.439 of the many steps that you can take. Every single 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:50.560 consumer in the world does not have to take all 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.000 of these steps all at once, because that would be 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:57.400 quite mind boggling. But if you do take steps towards 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:01.680 these over time, you can increase were privacy and security 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:05.600 two fold. Yeah, it's fantastic. Yeah, I mean and and 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:08.360 and to be fair, like like I'm gonna be upfront guys, 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:10.160 like I used to be the dude who had like 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:14.560 three passwords and for everything. Yeah, I was like that 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:18.480 for years until until I finally like woke up to 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:21.600 how dangerous that was. I was fortunate in that I 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:28.360 was never knowingly anyway targeted for a specific like intrusion. Uh, 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:30.439 as far as I know, I never None of my 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.679 stuff ever got compromised because of that. Stuff has been 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:36.320 compromised because of data breaches that are beyond our control. 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.000 But we're really focusing on the stuff that we as 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:41.640 end users can do to improve our security as best 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:43.480 we can, knowing that we live in a world where 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:47.040 that's just one point of vulnerability. That's one point of attack, 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:51.480 but it's it's one that we have some control over another. 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:55.320 Another scary statistic, or at least I thought it was scary, 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:59.439 is that Kaspersky did a UH survey back in seventeen 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:03.400 and are They did an analysis of thirty two million 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:07.400 hot spots. Hot spots being points of contact where your 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.800 device connects over to the Internet at large, and a 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.880 hot spot can be everything from the router in a 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:17.559 like a coffee shop to your own cell phone. You 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:20.400 might be using that as a portable hot spot. Out 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:22.960 of the thirty two million hot spots they examined, twenty 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:27.320 one quarter of them had no encryption in use at all, 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:30.920 meaning everything is being sent in plain text, which means 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:35.960 that if anyone has any method of eavesdropping on those communications, 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:40.480 they see it all, which again blows my mind that 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:44.520 there would be that many networks that have no encryption 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:50.080 in place at all, not even bad encryption. Yeah, that's 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:53.960 a very scary number. That's extremely high and is a 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:56.920 lot higher than what I thought it would be. Uh. 0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:59.880 If if they're not using any sort of encryption whatso 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.040 ever for a hot spot, that means that anybody within 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:06.680 that vicinity, within range of that device would be able 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:11.520 to see everything you're doing. It's very very mind boggling. Yeah, 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:13.400 and this is one of the reasons why I wanted 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:17.320 to have you on the show, because we say these things, right, 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.600 We say that when you use public WiFi, you're using it. 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:24.680 If you're using an unsecured public WiFi hot spot, especially 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:28.320 one that is unencrypted, that you are in danger of 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:31.400 this And a lot of people say, all right, but 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:33.960 exactly what's going on? Right? How are they doing this? 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:37.280 And it's that there are various pieces of software out 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:40.800 there that allow people who are who get onto a 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:45.320 network to monitor traffic that's going across that network. I 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:50.440 mean their entire groups out there that make different software 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:56.120 and hardware, uh solutions to do just this, right, Yeah, 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:59.560 not gonna lie. Um. I used to solder and sell 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:02.240 some of these products at a company that I used 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:04.920 to work with called hack five, So I'll definitely share 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:07.560 some of that information once we get closer to those 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:11.640 those topics with today's discussion. But yeah, those products exist, 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:15.440 They're very inexpensive, and some of the software is free, 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:19.640 and there's tutorials made by yours truly on YouTube that 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:23.360 show you how to use these things. So it's definitely 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:26.520 a thing that pretty much anybody can introduce themselves too, 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:28.760 and then they will be able to see what's going 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:32.280 on on a network. And there are different reasons to 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:35.480 even do this. There's obviously there's the nefarious ones that 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:38.000 we're concerned about, but there's also like if you're a 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:41.400 network administrator being able to do things like monitor network 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:46.080 traffic and see points of co education as well. Yeah, 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:49.120 there's like there's there are legit reasons to use that 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:52.600 sort of technology that don't that don't immediately point you 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:55.640 to the to the road of I'm here to steal 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:59.080 all your infos. It's like there's stuff that where this 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:02.320 is used in quote unquote legitimate purposes. I mean like 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:07.600 packet sniffers. That's something that sounds like it's underhanded and shady, 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:11.200 but they were invented not to try and sniff out 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:13.439 what someone else was doing, but literally to help network 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:18.000 administrators see how network how network traffic was moving across, 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.360 so they could make sure that everything was working properly. 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:24.879 So but it doesn't mean that you can't a tool. 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:27.080 A tool is either a tool or a weapon, depending 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:29.879 upon how you want to use it, And so the 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:32.040 same stuff that was used to help networks is also 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.199 used to exploit them. Um exactly, you could say the 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:38.119 same thing about a kitchen knife. I mean kitchen knives 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:41.560 to to you know, cut up fruits and veggies. Some 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:45.600 nefarious people might use one to murder somebody part of me. 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:49.600 But the thing I used the exact same sort of analogy, 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:51.720 except when I was talking to someone earlier today, but 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:53.879 it was a hammer, But same thing, Like a hammer 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:56.720 is either something that you're using to to build stuff 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.240 with or it could be used to bludgeon somebody, And 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:01.920 it all comes down to it's not that the tool 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.399 itself is bad, it's the intent and use of the 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:10.040 person wielding that tool. And the same is true of technology. 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:12.800 Uh So, one other stat that I wanted to mention 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:16.399 that's pretty alarming. Norton found out this was in so 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:20.880 it's a few years ago, but Americans had had their 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:24.680 email hacked at some point, and that twelve percent had 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:28.280 their financial data stolen while they were shopping online, and 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:34.960 that in million people globally had been a victim of 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:38.240 some sort of cyber crime. And that kind of shows 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:41.840 us the scale of why this is an important topic. 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:44.960 It's not just because the opportunity is there. It's because 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:49.320 people are actually actively taking advantage of those opportunities, and 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:53.119 you could be the victim of one of those actions 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:58.000 if you're not careful. And we love you absolutely, we too, 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:01.720 love you very much. I'm kind of I'm kind of 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:05.119 thinking that all of those numbers have probably increased given 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:08.760 that it's been about four years since they were they 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:13.040 analyzed the data and had those those statistics available, because 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:16.760 in the past couple of years we've seen hacks go 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:20.520 from a few hundred million people to almost a billion 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:25.000 people get hacked online. So it's entirely possible that those 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:29.159 numbers have increased quite a bit since, especially in the 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:33.480 realm of the mobile app becoming king right, because there's 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:37.480 there's such a proliferation of apps out there that either 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:43.439 through a conscious effort, are creating vulnerabilities or because of 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:47.679 poor design, create vulnerabilities that can later be exploited. You know, 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:51.280 we've seen so many examples of that where an a 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:54.960 p I didn't take everything into account and then someone 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:58.280 was able to exploit it. Famous one being Facebook and 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:02.439 Cambridge Analytica, where where you had an app that if 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:05.439 you installed the app like you would voluntarily install it 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.240 within your Facebook and you're voluntary a lee sharing your 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:12.000 own information. All of that is fine, right if you've 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:15.320 agreed to do it such a god not a good idea, 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:18.840 such a good example. Good example. Yeah, good example, not 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:20.760 a good idea to do. But it's fine if you 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:22.760 if you are knowingly doing that, that's fine. But the 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:26.199 problem that the Cambrage Analytica story brought to bears that 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:29.879 they took advantage of a loophole in Facebook's API and 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:32.480 they were able to to phish out a ton of 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:35.840 information about all the contacts of the people who had 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:39.520 installed the app. These are people who did not, uh, 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:42.840 you know, give permission to share their information, but the 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:48.239 app collected all that information regardless. And that's where we see, like, 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:53.240 you know, there were countless victims of this app because 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:55.960 none of them opted in to share that information. It 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:59.640 was just taken from them. And uh, that's just one 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:02.879 little example of the world we live in where you know, 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:06.800 even when you are being careful, there are there are 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:10.320 these opportunities for your information to get out there, which 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:12.320 is why we're like, this is why you need to 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:16.080 take the steps necessary to protect yourself as best you can, 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:19.560 because we live in a world where there are numerous 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:24.199 attack vectors that point back to us. All right, I 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:28.399 mean just mid December, the New York Times discussed location 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:32.080 tracking on phones and how ping pings to local towers 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:35.240 can basically give you a map of a certain phone 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:37.480 I D and you can track that and figure out 0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:40.560 who that phone belongs to based on what residents and 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:43.960 what office they go to every day. It's extremely scary, 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:47.399 and the more information we have about it as consumers, 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:50.640 the better we can protect ourselves. Yeah, and again like, uh, 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:54.680 back to what you were just saying, Shannon. Facebook send 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:56.920 a letter to Congress just a couple of days before 0:21:56.920 --> 0:22:01.360 we record this episode where they said, Um, even if 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:05.240 you opted out of location tracking, we actually know where 0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:09.760 you are, partly because of the information people are voluntarily sharing. 0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:13.400 Like if I tag if I take a photo while 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:16.159 I'm at a party and I tagged the location and 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:19.000 I tag people are in the photo, well, I'm voluntarily 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:21.480 sharing a lot of information. Maybe those people haven't given 0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:24.400 me permission to do that, but I'm sharing that information. 0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:27.320 So yeah, of course Facebook knows where I am when 0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:29.600 I when I'm there, and who I'm with because I 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:33.200 shared the information. But they also admitted yeah, we also 0:22:33.840 --> 0:22:36.040 use a lot of other methods where we can suss 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:38.800 out where you were and who you were with at 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:43.680 what time that aren't as obvious and aren't examples of 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:49.080 the user voluntarily handing over information. So yeah, scary stuff. Um. 0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:51.840 One of the things I wanted to mention is sort 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:55.639 of the bird's eye view of the process of what 0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:58.400 it's like just connecting to WiFi, so we can kind 0:22:58.400 --> 0:23:01.560 of understand, uh, you know, what's going on, because I 0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:04.600 think a lot of people if they think that if 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:06.800 they see that, for example, that there's a Wi Fi 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:10.080 hot spot that requires a password, they immediately think that 0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:13.600