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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hello, Hello, it seems like the Spider has become

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Speaker 1: this thing that catches the fly. You're welcoming me into

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Speaker 1: the studio.

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Speaker 2: Am I the fly? No, I guess you're the fly.

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Speaker 2: I'm the spider. Feels pretty good. So so what Yeah,

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Speaker 2: As hopefully our listeners know by now, if they're paying attention.

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Speaker 1: Well, whoa, whoa. I was sensing a little attitude.

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Speaker 2: Don't antagonize the listeners.

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Speaker 1: That's rule number one in broadcasting.

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Speaker 2: As our dear audience should know, we have been encoring

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Speaker 2: some episodes this summer, and usually at the end we'll

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Speaker 2: have a little update with the guests about what's happened. Since, yes,

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Speaker 2: this is going to be a little bit different, I

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Speaker 2: got to interview someone I was really really excited to

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Speaker 2: talk to. She makes one of my favorite shows. It's

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Speaker 2: called Pen fifteen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we talk about it.

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Speaker 2: We talk about it like, yeah frequently we do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: When it was running, we really we talked about it

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Speaker 1: a lot. I have to say. It's probably one of

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Speaker 1: my favorite shows too.

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Speaker 2: For those who don't know the show, it is made

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Speaker 2: by Anakonkole and Maya Erskin, who are two real life

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Speaker 2: best friends and they play versions of themselves at thirteen,

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Speaker 2: so it's about their middle school experience. They are playing

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Speaker 2: themselves as adults, and then they are surrounded by literal children,

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Speaker 2: people who are actually thirteen playing their classmates.

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Speaker 1: For the first episode, that concept felt like a big

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Speaker 1: hurdle maybe to kind of like get into the story.

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Speaker 1: But I was like over it and into it like

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Speaker 1: five minutes in. Yeah, you stop thinking about the fact

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Speaker 1: they're adults. Yeah, it's like a magic trick that they pull,

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Speaker 1: and it's beautiful and so funny.

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Speaker 2: It's really good. That's right. I really think anyone who

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Speaker 2: hasn't watched it, I would highly highly recommend it. And

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Speaker 2: I was very excited to talk to Anna and Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we thought it could be a cool conversation to put

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Speaker 2: with this episode because both of us are revisiting that

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Speaker 2: same age, in her case very literally recreating scenes from

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Speaker 2: her childhood.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you guys end up talking about the episode

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Speaker 1: and her show.

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Speaker 2: And about just our perspective middle school experiences.

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Speaker 1: So let's get to listening, shall we.

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Speaker 2: Let's get to listening. I'm Khalila Holt and this is

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Speaker 2: Heavyweight Today's episode. Late right after the break, I'm walking

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Speaker 2: to work one morning when I spot Laife heading towards me.

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Speaker 2: From the ages of twelve to fourteen, Life was my crush,

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Speaker 2: the object of my junior high obsession. I still google

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Speaker 2: him occasionally, but he's completely absent from the Internet. I

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Speaker 2: have no idea what became of him. It's like he

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Speaker 2: just disappeared. So when I see him on the street,

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Speaker 2: I feel my heart speed up. I wonder if I

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Speaker 2: should say hi. I wonder if I say hi in

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Speaker 2: what tone I should go Life, Life, oh Liafe. But

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Speaker 2: then as I dropped closer, I realized that the man

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Speaker 2: I thought was life is not life at all, and

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Speaker 2: in fact is not even a man. He's a teenager.

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Speaker 2: This makes sense given that I've not seen life since

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Speaker 2: I was fourteen years old. Still, having your heart speed

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Speaker 2: up at the sight of a teenager is a sure

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Speaker 2: way to feel like a creep. And just like that,

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Speaker 2: to quote Carrie Bradshaw, Liaife is back on my mind

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Speaker 2: all these years later, and I remember the exact type

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Speaker 2: of pen layfro with. I remember his birthday. I remember

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Speaker 2: how he kept his wallet on a long chain, the

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Speaker 2: first time I'd ever seen such a thing done, and

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Speaker 2: wore a quicksilver sweatshirt with holes worn through the sleeves

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Speaker 2: that he'd stick his thumbs through. He was pale, with

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Speaker 2: blue eyes, short and slight.

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Speaker 4: I remember him being kind of like wayfish, almost like

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Speaker 4: kind of almost like a furial.

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Speaker 2: Crushes do not exist in a vacuum. They require gleeful

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Speaker 2: gossip with your friends. And so I call Itchia, who's

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Speaker 2: been my best friend since elementary school, to talk about

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Speaker 2: our old classmate Lafe.

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Speaker 4: He had this like light blonde hair that he died

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Speaker 4: and was not a long like down to here, but

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Speaker 4: hair long like like a bottling.

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Speaker 2: But like shag. And then yeah, there go the man's bob. Once,

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Speaker 2: while away on a school sponsored trip, we phoned Leife

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Speaker 2: from our hotel room, me, Lucia, and our other friend Emily,

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Speaker 2: but three of us huddled together on the scratchy Marriotte comforter,

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Speaker 2: stifling our giddiness as we dialed. I don't remember if

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Speaker 2: we actually talked to the thing I remember is that

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Speaker 2: we called.

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Speaker 5: We talked to his mom.

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Speaker 2: Our friend Emily asked if she could speak with Laife.

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Speaker 2: It's Emily, she said. Emily said, Leife's mom go upstairs

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Speaker 2: and talk to him. Then she hung up on us.

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Speaker 2: Turned out he had a sister named Emily, so weird.

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Speaker 2: Luccia's stepmom was a photographer, and she once mentioned that

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Speaker 2: if Laife and I ever started dating, she wanted to

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Speaker 2: take our portrait. I don't think she knew I had

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Speaker 2: a crush on him. Laife was just so short and

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Speaker 2: I was so tall that I think she found the

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Speaker 2: idea of us as a couple funny. I was already

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Speaker 2: six feet tall by the end of eighth grade. I

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Speaker 2: got pressured into playing basketball, but I was so meek

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Speaker 2: that I usually just stood there while some terrifying girl

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Speaker 2: shoved by me with the ball. I don't like to

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Speaker 2: look at pictures of myself from that time. Standing next

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Speaker 2: to other kids my age, I look like the teacher

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Speaker 2: or like someone's off putting sister home from college. None

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Speaker 2: of my pants fit correctly, and my socks were always

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Speaker 2: pulled up too high. I used to listen to the

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Speaker 2: song eleanor Rigby and panic. In my interpretation, it was

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Speaker 2: a song about how no one wanted to date poor

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Speaker 2: old eleanor Rigby, just like no one wanted to date me.

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Speaker 2: When I was thirteen. One day I was sitting by

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Speaker 2: the gym after school with my friend desiree. When she

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Speaker 2: told me, I picture you getting a boyfriend in college.

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Speaker 2: She laid out this whole hypothetical where me and my

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Speaker 2: future boyfriend reached for the same book at the library.

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Speaker 2: At the time I was offended college, other girls at

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Speaker 2: my school, desire included, already had boyfriends, the middle school

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Speaker 2: version of a boyfriend where you were afraid to touch

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Speaker 2: each other and broke up after a week. But still

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Speaker 2: I had to wait till college. But as it turned out,

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Speaker 2: I did not get a boyfriend before college, nor in college,

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Speaker 2: nor even for several years after college, And so I

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Speaker 2: concluded the problem was not my circumstances. The problem was me.

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Speaker 2: I was not datable. After meeting me for the first time,

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Speaker 2: people might say, oh, she was funny, but they'd never say,

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Speaker 2: is she single. I was simply not a person that

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Speaker 2: anyone could think of romantically. At college parties, boys would

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Speaker 2: grab my friends and start dancing with them, and I

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Speaker 2: would stay for a while, dancing alongside them, like I

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Speaker 2: was part of the good time, but eventually I'd walk away.

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Speaker 2: It was weird for me to keep standing there smiling

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Speaker 2: blankly at the wall while they were making out. By

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Speaker 2: now I'm in my thirties, and I actually do have

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Speaker 2: a boyfriend. Sam and I have been together for four years.

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Speaker 2: We live together, We've taken trips, know each other's moms,

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Speaker 2: list each other on emergency contact forms, and yet still

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Speaker 2: I can't shake this feeling that I'm behind, that there's

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Speaker 2: something wrong with me, that I started too late, and

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Speaker 2: now I can never catch up. Sometimes Sam tells me

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Speaker 2: stories about the girls he used to hook up with,

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Speaker 2: or about his high school girlfriend, or the girlfriend he

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Speaker 2: lived with before he lived with me. I know that

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Speaker 2: he's not trying to get back together with any of

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Speaker 2: these people. I know he does invested in our relationship

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Speaker 2: as I am. Still, when he tells these stories, I

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Speaker 2: feel so inadequate that I want to cry. A couple

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Speaker 2: times I have cried, and he has been confused, and

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Speaker 2: suddenly we're in an argument because I don't know how

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Speaker 2: to explain why I'm crying. I want charming stif stories

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Speaker 2: like that one of rhapsodizes about my past of young

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Speaker 2: love and mutual discovery. Instead, my past is a wall

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Speaker 2: I smiled at, and the only stories I have about

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Speaker 2: people I've hooked up with are vaguely unsettling to repeat.

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Speaker 2: I liked Leife at a time before all that, back

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Speaker 2: when it still felt like romance might happen for me,

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Speaker 2: like any interaction could be the start of a love

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Speaker 2: story for the Ages. One time I brought whole Food

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Speaker 2: sushi for lunch and felt self conscious because I'd seen

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Speaker 2: the Breakfast Club in which Molly Ringwald is mocked for

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Speaker 2: bringing sushi for lunch. But Leif walked by my table

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Speaker 2: and said, is that sushi? And I said yes? And

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Speaker 2: he said I love sushi. And I said would you

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Speaker 2: like a piece? And he said really? And I said yes,

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Speaker 2: And suddenly I was proud to have a lunch of

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Speaker 2: whole food sushi. Laife talked constantly about a band called

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Speaker 2: Billie Talent, a semi yelly alt rock group with lyrics

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Speaker 2: about my I started listening to them because I knew

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Speaker 2: Laife liked them, and from there became an obsessive fan myself.

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Speaker 2: Once I ran into Laife at a Billie Talent concert,

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Speaker 2: I pretended not to see him because I didn't want

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Speaker 2: him to think that I'd followed him there, But he

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Speaker 2: came over and said hi to me. There were little

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Speaker 2: moments where it almost seemed like he could be flirting

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Speaker 2: with me. We followed each other on the blogging site zanga,

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Speaker 2: and for a while there was some sort of glitch

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Speaker 2: where Life was unable to comment on my page. When

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Speaker 2: the glitch was fixed, he was so excited that he

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Speaker 2: left me one hundred comments in a row. Comment forty

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Speaker 2: two said, on the forty second day of Christmas, I

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Speaker 2: gave to Kaylee one hundred comments, lots of typing and

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Speaker 2: a pear tree. I still have a journal from that time.

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Speaker 2: In it, i'd write Laife all these vague letters. It

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Speaker 2: is humiliating to read these letters now, to the point

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Speaker 2: where I refuse to quote them here. Suffice it to

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Speaker 2: say that I constantly referred to him as dearest. Surrounding

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Speaker 2: the letters are my thoughts about myself, mostly how I

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Speaker 2: wished I were a different person entirely, someone charismatic and

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Speaker 2: sought after. Sometimes I'd have this huge swell of self

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Speaker 2: hatred that I didn't know what to do with. Once

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Speaker 2: I tried to caught myself, but the kitchen knife I

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Speaker 2: chose was not very sharp, and so it was harder

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Speaker 2: than I thought it would be, and I gave up.

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Speaker 2: When I find someone who wants to date me, I

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Speaker 2: thought this feeling will go away. I hoped that life

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Speaker 2: might be that someone. I'd talked long fantasies about how

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Speaker 2: we'd get together, and sometimes I'd realize what a good

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Speaker 2: mood I was in, and then I'd realize the good

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Speaker 2: mood was because of something I'd made up, something that

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Speaker 2: hadn't really happened at all. In the winter of eighth grade,

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Speaker 2: I finally decided enough with the secret pining. It was

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Speaker 2: time to let Laife know how I felt. And so

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Speaker 2: I took action. And by took action, I mean that

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Speaker 2: I delegated action to other people. There was a stairway

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Speaker 2: right next to our classroom that was just a single

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Speaker 2: flight and closed by doors on each side. It was

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Speaker 2: in this room of stairs that my friends Lucia and

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Speaker 2: Emily cornered Laife and told him that I liked him

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Speaker 2: while I ran home and hid. Afterwards, I asked them

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Speaker 2: what he said. They told me he said okay. That night,

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Speaker 2: in a fit of panic and despair, I got online.

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Speaker 2: I logged onto Zanga, and I wrote a veiled, angsty

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Speaker 2: post about what a huge mistake I'd made. Laife saw

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Speaker 2: the post as I knew he would, and he I

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Speaker 2: amed my friend Karina about it. And here is where

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Speaker 2: something amazing happened, because, in this conversation with Karina, Laife

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Speaker 2: said he would date me. He said he thought I

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Speaker 2: was cool. He was going to ask me out on

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Speaker 2: Valentine's Day. Seeing couples perform how much they liked each

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Speaker 2: other made me feel inferior. So I hated Valentine's Day

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Speaker 2: with a showy passion. Each February fourteenth, I'd wear all

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Speaker 2: black as a sign of protest. Laife's thought was that

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Speaker 2: this romantic gesture might help me to reclaim the holiday.

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Speaker 2: I know all this because at the time, Karina promptly

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Speaker 2: copy and pasted the ims with Life into an email

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Speaker 2: for me. I couldn't believe what I was reading. I

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Speaker 2: was so happy. Finally, I thought, finally, the thing that

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Speaker 2: only happens to other people, it's now happening to me.

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Speaker 2: On Valentine's Day, I got up and my mom drove

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Speaker 2: me to school. People were giving out candy and paper hearts.

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Speaker 2: I tried to look nonchalant. I went to science class,

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Speaker 2: I went to lunch, to recess, to math, to basketball,

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Speaker 2: and then school was over and I went home. Laife

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Speaker 2: did not say a single word to me all day.

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Speaker 2: I have no idea what happened or why he changed

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Speaker 2: his mind.

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Speaker 4: Huh did you ever talk to him about it?

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Speaker 2: I rehash all this on the phone with Lucia. Never

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Speaker 2: did we speak directly about it, like we spoke through

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Speaker 2: you and Emily, through Karina on im and like through

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Speaker 2: my veiled zanga posts. Interesting and having been my best

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Speaker 2: friend for all these years, Lucia into It's what I'm

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Speaker 2: building up to. So you want to try to find

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Speaker 2: him more? Yeah, but I'm afraid. I tried a drafting

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Speaker 2: a letter, and I was like, do I just sound

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Speaker 2: into safe anyway? So do you think this is completely

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Speaker 2: insane to do?

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Speaker 6: No?

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Speaker 4: I mean, I'm sure you wrote. You're a very good

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Speaker 4: writer and a thoughtful person, so I'm sure.

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Speaker 2: The way you approached it was good. Since googling Life

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Speaker 2: had always failed me, I turned to a public records

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Speaker 2: database that I get through work. I was hoping to

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Speaker 2: discover a possible mailing address for Life, and I did,

254
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Speaker 2: looks like maybe he lives in Arizona. And I saw

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Speaker 2: he had like a from twenty twenty court thing from

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Speaker 2: defacing a political sign. Well, I guess you don't know

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Speaker 2: which direction. I know it's a good direction. I want

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Speaker 2: to talk to life directly, the way I never did

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Speaker 2: back then. I want to know what he really thought

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Speaker 2: of me, and why he never asked me out on

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Speaker 2: Valentine's Day. All these years, I've believed this story about

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Speaker 2: how people don't see me romantically. But if I can

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Speaker 2: to the beginning of that story, if I can see

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Speaker 2: myself differently at thirteen, it could reframe everything that came

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Speaker 2: after I name dropped you in the letter name dropped

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Speaker 2: me because I'm so well known well. I was like,

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Speaker 2: we used to live together, but now we both live

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Speaker 2: with our boyfriend, so that he wouldn't think I was

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Speaker 2: like trying to date him now Highlafe, I wrote in

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Speaker 2: my letter, I don't know if you remember me, but

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Speaker 2: we went to Near North together. I had a huge

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Speaker 2: crush on you, and I was hoping you'd be up

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Speaker 2: to talk to me about what you remember from that time.

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Speaker 2: I hang up the phone with Lucia and I walked

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Speaker 2: to the mailbox. I send off my letter. But then

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00:17:07,930 --> 00:17:11,610
Speaker 2: several weeks to go by and nothing. Did Laife get

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00:17:11,609 --> 00:17:14,689
Speaker 2: the letter and decide to ignore me? Or do I

278
00:17:14,770 --> 00:17:18,810
Speaker 2: just have the wrong address. Usually when reporting a story,

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Speaker 2: I tried calling at this point, and I did find

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Speaker 2: a phone number for Laife. However, the idea of dialing

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00:17:25,929 --> 00:17:28,129
Speaker 2: it makes me want to lie down in the middle

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Speaker 2: of the street and simply pass away. And so, just

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Speaker 2: like I did at thirteen, I recruit someone else as

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Speaker 2: an envoy.

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Speaker 1: And who is it? Someone else? You?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's you.

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Speaker 7: Okay, So I'm sort of like that whole quorum of

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Speaker 7: girls all in one adult man.

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Speaker 2: This is a regular host of this program, Jonathan Goldstein.

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Speaker 2: I want him to call Leife on my behalf to

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Speaker 2: see if Laife got the letter. I would be open

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Speaker 2: to speaking with me.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, no, I don't think that'll be awkward at all.

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Speaker 7: Let me get my pattern down here. Hi, there was

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Speaker 7: this girl. Her name was Khaleila hol.

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Speaker 2: You should say Kaylee first. I think you would know

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Speaker 2: me by Kaylee.

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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kaylee Holt's boss.

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Speaker 2: What you say like that? It is really weird.

300
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Speaker 1: That is weird.

301
00:18:16,330 --> 00:18:19,850
Speaker 7: No, Hi, you don't know me, but I was enlisted

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Speaker 7: by an old school chum of yours.

303
00:18:22,490 --> 00:18:24,050
Speaker 2: Oh, don't say school, an.

304
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Speaker 1: Old flame, a paramore.

305
00:18:26,730 --> 00:18:29,730
Speaker 2: My confidence is decreasing with every passing second.

306
00:18:29,889 --> 00:18:34,090
Speaker 7: I won't embarrass you in front of your crush.

307
00:18:34,129 --> 00:18:36,330
Speaker 1: Are you joking, choking on this bon bun.

308
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Speaker 2: As my boss asphyxiates on a piece of candy. I

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00:18:40,209 --> 00:18:43,330
Speaker 2: weigh the pros and cons of just making the call myself,

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Speaker 2: but in the end I make the same choice I

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Speaker 2: did back then, better to send an incompetent in my

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Speaker 2: stead while I hide at home. I obsess all day Thursday,

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Speaker 2: I obsess all day Friday. Jonathan doesn't offer me a

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Speaker 2: single update. I can't even tell if he's made the

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00:19:07,250 --> 00:19:11,009
Speaker 2: call yet. Than the week begins and I still have

316
00:19:11,090 --> 00:19:15,490
Speaker 2: no idea what he's done. Okay, but whatever you did

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Speaker 2: do it worked because Friday night checked my email and

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Speaker 2: I had an email from Laife saying that he would

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Speaker 2: talk to me.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 7: Okay, well, let me just say I am almost one

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Speaker 7: hundred percent certain that I had nothing to do with that.

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Speaker 2: Well really, because it happens that day.

324
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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is suggestive.

325
00:19:42,889 --> 00:19:46,529
Speaker 2: Jonathan tells me that he had indeed tried calling Leaife's number.

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Speaker 1: Okay, here's the call.

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Speaker 8: You ready?

328
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Speaker 2: Okay?

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00:19:49,449 --> 00:19:49,649
Speaker 9: Yeah?

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00:19:49,689 --> 00:19:56,490
Speaker 1: Okay, Hello, is Laife there?

331
00:19:57,810 --> 00:19:58,210
Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Could I speak to him?

333
00:20:01,330 --> 00:20:01,530
Speaker 6: Yes?

334
00:20:01,770 --> 00:20:02,290
Speaker 2: This is her?

335
00:20:03,929 --> 00:20:04,689
Speaker 1: This is Laife.

336
00:20:06,010 --> 00:20:06,210
Speaker 6: Yes.

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00:20:10,609 --> 00:20:12,209
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure I have the right person.

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Speaker 1: What is your middle name.

339
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Speaker 6: Seek doodles.

340
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Speaker 1: No, No, that isn't. That isn't the life that I'm

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Speaker 1: looking for.

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00:20:26,889 --> 00:20:28,210
Speaker 6: I'm on a toilet rin.

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Speaker 1: Though, Okay, is there anybody else in the house.

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Speaker 2: In his email, Lafe proposed that we talk in nine days,

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Speaker 2: which is kind of a weirdly long time. I can't

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00:20:49,409 --> 00:20:52,050
Speaker 2: help but worry that he'll bail last minute, that this

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00:20:52,090 --> 00:20:55,569
Speaker 2: will be just like Valentine's Day all over again. So

348
00:20:55,609 --> 00:20:59,010
Speaker 2: in the meantime, hoping she might remember some clue about

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Speaker 2: what happened back then, I text my old friend Karina,

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Speaker 2: the one who broke her this whole Valentine's plan with

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Speaker 2: life on I AM.

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00:21:07,290 --> 00:21:10,569
Speaker 8: When you texted me that it was you, I was like,

353
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Speaker 8: oh my gosh, Like, did something.

354
00:21:13,330 --> 00:21:16,770
Speaker 2: Happen she calling me to say that miss Bergen died,

355
00:21:17,770 --> 00:21:21,369
Speaker 2: Miss Bergen being our longtime principal, which.

356
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Speaker 8: She did, by the way, he didn't I didn't hear that.

357
00:21:23,570 --> 00:21:32,289
Speaker 2: Yeah, may she. I felt deranged, texting Karina that I

358
00:21:32,290 --> 00:21:35,250
Speaker 2: wanted to speak with her about life a random kid

359
00:21:35,290 --> 00:21:39,649
Speaker 2: from her eighth grade class. But Karina responded, I legitimately

360
00:21:39,689 --> 00:21:42,929
Speaker 2: thought about you in life last week, So, just like

361
00:21:42,970 --> 00:21:45,489
Speaker 2: we used to in junior high, the two of us

362
00:21:45,570 --> 00:21:48,209
Speaker 2: chat on the phone about a boy and then he

363
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Speaker 2: I am you shut up?

364
00:21:50,850 --> 00:21:52,689
Speaker 8: Did I send you the conversation?

365
00:21:52,929 --> 00:22:00,450
Speaker 2: Yes? So then I and buried in an old AOL account,

366
00:22:01,050 --> 00:22:04,330
Speaker 2: I find that email from Karina with the whole conversation

367
00:22:04,609 --> 00:22:06,609
Speaker 2: between her and Life laid out.

368
00:22:07,090 --> 00:22:09,010
Speaker 8: I would like, absolutely love to see it.

369
00:22:09,209 --> 00:22:11,090
Speaker 2: Let me send it to you. I will. Life screen

370
00:22:11,169 --> 00:22:15,490
Speaker 2: name was chaotic detortion, which I think is just chaotic

371
00:22:15,530 --> 00:22:16,889
Speaker 2: distortion spelled wrong.

372
00:22:17,129 --> 00:22:19,969
Speaker 8: Okay, let me read this okay at ten seventy pm.

373
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Speaker 2: Nice and as Karina reads, here for you, dear listener

374
00:22:25,129 --> 00:22:28,449
Speaker 2: is a dramatic recreation of that I Am exchange, with

375
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Speaker 2: two young actors playing the roles of Karina and Life.

376
00:22:35,570 --> 00:22:40,609
Speaker 3: Hey, Hey, Life, what's up? Kayley's talking about what I think?

377
00:22:40,649 --> 00:22:40,969
Speaker 2: She is?

378
00:22:41,050 --> 00:22:41,570
Speaker 10: Right on?

379
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Speaker 3: Zanga, hold on, let me see Kaylee likes me, right, Did.

380
00:22:49,209 --> 00:22:50,810
Speaker 11: Lucia and Emily tell you something?

381
00:22:51,850 --> 00:22:56,449
Speaker 3: Yeah? After school the other day? Yeah, she does well.

382
00:22:56,770 --> 00:23:00,970
Speaker 3: If she comes on, will you tell her something? Yeah?

383
00:23:01,369 --> 00:23:03,690
Speaker 3: If she comes on, tell her that I'll go out

384
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Speaker 3: with her.

385
00:23:04,409 --> 00:23:06,569
Speaker 10: But my health is always screwed with my life, so

386
00:23:06,609 --> 00:23:08,090
Speaker 10: I'm probably not going to be able to be one

387
00:23:08,169 --> 00:23:10,130
Speaker 10: hundred percent boyfrid material.

388
00:23:12,970 --> 00:23:15,010
Speaker 2: Laithe had some sort of illness the whole time I

389
00:23:15,090 --> 00:23:17,489
Speaker 2: knew him, but I never knew how sick he was

390
00:23:18,010 --> 00:23:21,090
Speaker 2: or what he was even sick with. He sometimes had

391
00:23:21,090 --> 00:23:24,209
Speaker 2: to leave school early, he was on crutches for a while,

392
00:23:24,570 --> 00:23:27,609
Speaker 2: and there were days when he just looked frail. But

393
00:23:27,649 --> 00:23:32,050
Speaker 2: at thirteen, we didn't think to ask any questions. Back then,

394
00:23:32,649 --> 00:23:35,009
Speaker 2: Karina just thought it was sweet he was considering his

395
00:23:35,090 --> 00:23:37,729
Speaker 2: health in his role as my future boyfriend.

396
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Speaker 11: All but do you like her?

397
00:23:43,050 --> 00:23:44,090
Speaker 3: This is kind of awkward.

398
00:23:46,050 --> 00:23:53,410
Speaker 2: Yeah, all these years later and that, yeah, I makes

399
00:23:53,530 --> 00:23:57,490
Speaker 2: my heart start pounding. I was wrong, I think see

400
00:23:57,570 --> 00:24:01,570
Speaker 2: I was wrong. He liked me, he said he liked me.

401
00:24:02,810 --> 00:24:07,649
Speaker 2: But then it goes on.

402
00:24:06,010 --> 00:24:10,570
Speaker 10: Ohmg, don't tell her. I'm not crazy about her, but hey,

403
00:24:11,010 --> 00:24:19,410
Speaker 10: she likes me. I don't hate her or anything. And kaylee'school,

404
00:24:20,129 --> 00:24:20,810
Speaker 10: Yeah she is.

405
00:24:21,810 --> 00:24:23,489
Speaker 11: So you want me to tell her that you'll go

406
00:24:23,570 --> 00:24:25,130
Speaker 11: out with her? Why don't you just talk to her

407
00:24:25,129 --> 00:24:25,609
Speaker 11: on Monday?

408
00:24:26,530 --> 00:24:27,409
Speaker 3: Do you think I should?

409
00:24:27,970 --> 00:24:28,250
Speaker 12: Yeah?

410
00:24:28,290 --> 00:24:30,090
Speaker 11: Because I mean I don't think she would believe me,

411
00:24:30,850 --> 00:24:33,210
Speaker 11: and it would be nicer if you told her. Are

412
00:24:33,209 --> 00:24:34,450
Speaker 11: you getting her something on V Day?

413
00:24:35,330 --> 00:24:38,010
Speaker 3: I guess when is Valentine's Day?

414
00:24:38,730 --> 00:24:42,929
Speaker 11: Next next Tuesday, Omga, you should tell her on V

415
00:24:43,010 --> 00:24:44,290
Speaker 11: Day because she hates V Day.

416
00:24:45,290 --> 00:24:47,409
Speaker 3: WHOA, yeah, oh will.

417
00:24:48,850 --> 00:24:50,769
Speaker 2: I always thought it was Laf who came up with

418
00:24:50,810 --> 00:24:55,169
Speaker 2: the Valentine's Day plan, but it was actually Karina. It

419
00:24:55,209 --> 00:24:58,609
Speaker 2: wasn't a romantic gesture at all. It was the gesture

420
00:24:58,770 --> 00:24:59,850
Speaker 2: of a thoughtful friend.

421
00:25:00,689 --> 00:25:03,609
Speaker 8: But I don't remember anything after that. I didn't even

422
00:25:03,689 --> 00:25:08,609
Speaker 8: remember that. He didn't end up saying anything, like he

423
00:25:08,609 --> 00:25:10,329
Speaker 8: didn't end up saying anything to you at all.

424
00:25:10,649 --> 00:25:16,130
Speaker 2: No, we never talked about it, No, Kaylee, he did.

425
00:25:16,250 --> 00:25:24,569
Speaker 8: I'm pretty sure he mentioned his health again. Maybe I

426
00:25:24,649 --> 00:25:27,489
Speaker 8: like followed up and he was like, honestly, my health

427
00:25:27,649 --> 00:25:29,090
Speaker 8: just like really isn't the best.

428
00:25:30,250 --> 00:25:32,850
Speaker 2: So did life not ask me out simply because he

429
00:25:32,970 --> 00:25:36,810
Speaker 2: was too ill? Was his not asking actually a romantic

430
00:25:36,889 --> 00:25:41,449
Speaker 2: gesture something worthy of a Shakespearean tragedy or did he

431
00:25:41,570 --> 00:25:49,329
Speaker 2: just not like me? I'd ask Slaf to talk on

432
00:25:49,449 --> 00:25:52,009
Speaker 2: Zoom and I pray I won't break out or have

433
00:25:52,050 --> 00:25:54,489
Speaker 2: a bad hair day, because you know, I want to

434
00:25:54,649 --> 00:25:58,449
Speaker 2: look good. The morning of I put on an eyeshadow

435
00:25:58,609 --> 00:26:01,369
Speaker 2: that someone once told me was flattering, and wear a

436
00:26:01,409 --> 00:26:04,129
Speaker 2: T shirt for my favorite band because I figure it's

437
00:26:04,409 --> 00:26:08,050
Speaker 2: cool to like music. Then I head to the studio

438
00:26:08,409 --> 00:26:12,249
Speaker 2: and test the my her phone. Hello, Hello, all right,

439
00:26:12,369 --> 00:26:20,449
Speaker 2: that's working. I feel ill. I feel physically ill. Oh

440
00:26:20,490 --> 00:26:26,210
Speaker 2: my god, Okay, I can do this. Here we go

441
00:26:40,929 --> 00:26:43,409
Speaker 2: on the zoom camera. You can't even see my t

442
00:26:43,570 --> 00:26:46,169
Speaker 2: shirt or flattering eyeshadow. So that was a lot of

443
00:26:46,209 --> 00:26:49,530
Speaker 2: wasted effort. I see that Leaife is in the waiting room.

444
00:26:50,250 --> 00:26:53,289
Speaker 2: I press the admit button and he appears on screen.

445
00:26:54,369 --> 00:26:54,570
Speaker 11: Hi.

446
00:26:56,050 --> 00:26:56,290
Speaker 13: Hey.

447
00:26:57,970 --> 00:27:01,449
Speaker 2: In spite of his deeper voice and tattoos, life seems

448
00:27:01,449 --> 00:27:06,209
Speaker 2: the same, like there's no discrepancy between the person I imagined

449
00:27:06,090 --> 00:27:08,810
Speaker 2: all these years and the one I'm actually looking at.

450
00:27:10,409 --> 00:27:10,929
Speaker 2: How are you?

451
00:27:12,369 --> 00:27:15,050
Speaker 6: I'm great, I'm doing great. How are you doing?

452
00:27:15,169 --> 00:27:19,969
Speaker 2: I'm doing you know. Unfortunately, faced with the person I

453
00:27:19,970 --> 00:27:23,090
Speaker 2: imagined all these years, I suddenly can't remember how to

454
00:27:23,129 --> 00:27:26,969
Speaker 2: have a conversation. It's like I've lost twenty years of

455
00:27:27,050 --> 00:27:34,330
Speaker 2: social skills. What what what's your life?

456
00:27:35,530 --> 00:27:40,609
Speaker 6: My life? Well? I yeah, I don't know. I just

457
00:27:40,730 --> 00:27:44,609
Speaker 6: do uh life things. You know, eat food, go to

458
00:27:44,689 --> 00:27:48,810
Speaker 6: the grocery store. I've got a dog. You know, what's

459
00:27:48,850 --> 00:27:49,290
Speaker 6: your dog of?

460
00:27:49,490 --> 00:27:51,290
Speaker 2: Like, what's your dog's name?

461
00:27:52,530 --> 00:27:52,889
Speaker 6: Ronan?

462
00:27:53,409 --> 00:27:59,369
Speaker 2: Good given that I'm incapable of asking any question more

463
00:27:59,409 --> 00:28:03,050
Speaker 2: specific than what is your life or who is your dog?

464
00:28:03,770 --> 00:28:04,770
Speaker 2: Life takes the lead.

465
00:28:05,250 --> 00:28:08,330
Speaker 6: They've been doing like a lot of activisty stuff in Tucson,

466
00:28:08,770 --> 00:28:13,489
Speaker 6: and that consumes more of my time than I probably

467
00:28:13,530 --> 00:28:14,209
Speaker 6: should let it.

468
00:28:15,050 --> 00:28:18,169
Speaker 2: In fact, the nine day delay lay fasts for was

469
00:28:18,209 --> 00:28:21,889
Speaker 2: because of his activism. A few weeks earlier, he was

470
00:28:21,929 --> 00:28:25,210
Speaker 2: at a protest with the Stop Coop City movement when

471
00:28:25,250 --> 00:28:27,769
Speaker 2: he was tasted and slammed against the ground by a

472
00:28:27,810 --> 00:28:33,369
Speaker 2: police officer. He's been recovering from a concussion at this point.

473
00:28:33,570 --> 00:28:37,169
Speaker 2: We're forty minutes into the conversation and I've somehow managed

474
00:28:37,250 --> 00:28:40,610
Speaker 2: to avoid asking Laife any questions about eighth grade at all,

475
00:28:41,610 --> 00:28:43,569
Speaker 2: Even though he knows we're here to talk about how

476
00:28:43,610 --> 00:28:46,610
Speaker 2: much I liked him, Bringing up that time still makes

477
00:28:46,650 --> 00:28:52,050
Speaker 2: me nervous. What do you remember about me?

478
00:28:53,090 --> 00:28:57,530
Speaker 6: Yeah, I uh, I remember you being very tall and

479
00:28:58,209 --> 00:29:00,969
Speaker 6: maybe a little awkward. But maybe it's just because of

480
00:29:01,010 --> 00:29:01,850
Speaker 6: the crush or whatever.

481
00:29:01,850 --> 00:29:04,930
Speaker 2: No, I was awkward, yes, yeah, yeah.

482
00:29:04,450 --> 00:29:07,610
Speaker 6: Like I know that you told me at some point

483
00:29:07,690 --> 00:29:09,450
Speaker 6: that you had a crush on me. We have like

484
00:29:09,570 --> 00:29:13,770
Speaker 6: a vague memory of like there's like that stairwell Lucia

485
00:29:14,130 --> 00:29:17,010
Speaker 6: telling me or something like that, like in the stairwell.

486
00:29:17,170 --> 00:29:20,810
Speaker 2: Yeah. I ramble through my memories of what happened after

487
00:29:20,850 --> 00:29:25,529
Speaker 2: that stairwell moment, and finally up to the question that

488
00:29:25,610 --> 00:29:28,249
Speaker 2: I really came here to ask you were going to

489
00:29:28,330 --> 00:29:32,530
Speaker 2: ask me out on Valentine's Day, but then that never happened,

490
00:29:33,930 --> 00:29:34,770
Speaker 2: and I don't know why.

491
00:29:36,250 --> 00:29:43,410
Speaker 6: Oof. I'm sorry, Yeah, I don't remember. Like the Zanga

492
00:29:43,570 --> 00:29:45,890
Speaker 6: post sounds vaguely familiar.

493
00:29:46,930 --> 00:29:49,370
Speaker 2: Can I send you, because I, in fact have these

494
00:29:49,410 --> 00:29:52,930
Speaker 2: ims between you and Karina? No way can I email

495
00:29:52,970 --> 00:29:53,370
Speaker 2: them to you?

496
00:29:53,850 --> 00:29:58,090
Speaker 6: Yeah? See what cringeysque things I have to say.

497
00:29:59,490 --> 00:30:03,209
Speaker 2: Leife mostly reads through the ims in silence, but at

498
00:30:03,209 --> 00:30:06,450
Speaker 2: one point he makes a face and again goes oof.

499
00:30:07,650 --> 00:30:10,650
Speaker 2: When he's done, he self consciously.

500
00:30:12,170 --> 00:30:15,850
Speaker 6: All right, well that was that was That was fun?

501
00:30:16,490 --> 00:30:17,890
Speaker 2: Do you you have no memory of this?

502
00:30:18,970 --> 00:30:23,850
Speaker 6: I don't know. Vaguely, I guess like it's obviously obviously

503
00:30:23,890 --> 00:30:24,450
Speaker 6: it happened.

504
00:30:24,490 --> 00:30:26,289
Speaker 2: I mean, would be weird if I typed all this.

505
00:30:26,370 --> 00:30:29,250
Speaker 6: Suffen, Yeah, yeah, it'd be pretty weird.

506
00:30:30,010 --> 00:30:31,809
Speaker 2: What part were you oofing at?

507
00:30:33,250 --> 00:30:33,450
Speaker 13: Oh?

508
00:30:33,770 --> 00:30:37,050
Speaker 6: Just I mean, don't tell her. I'm not crazy about her,

509
00:30:37,130 --> 00:30:39,730
Speaker 6: but hey, she likes it was just like that.

510
00:30:40,690 --> 00:30:42,049
Speaker 13: Yikes.

511
00:30:46,890 --> 00:30:50,209
Speaker 6: I don't really know what happened. Obviously we didn't date.

512
00:30:50,570 --> 00:30:53,650
Speaker 6: I don't I don't think totally forgotten.

513
00:30:54,690 --> 00:30:56,490
Speaker 2: I mean that would kind of be worse if we did.

514
00:30:56,610 --> 00:30:59,770
Speaker 2: Dan gone from your memory.

515
00:30:59,370 --> 00:31:01,090
Speaker 6: Yeah, that'd be yeah.

516
00:31:01,650 --> 00:31:03,729
Speaker 2: I mean, like, it seems like you did not like me.

517
00:31:04,970 --> 00:31:10,930
Speaker 6: I do remember you being like very funny, but uh yeah,

518
00:31:11,010 --> 00:31:13,650
Speaker 6: I do agree, though, I think I like wasn't like

519
00:31:14,250 --> 00:31:14,770
Speaker 6: into you.

520
00:31:16,130 --> 00:31:24,810
Speaker 2: To use the eighth grade parlance, But then Lafe phrase

521
00:31:24,930 --> 00:31:28,410
Speaker 2: is a key thing. I've been wondering about the explanation

522
00:31:28,650 --> 00:31:31,690
Speaker 2: that he gave to Karina at the time his mysterious

523
00:31:31,730 --> 00:31:32,490
Speaker 2: health issues.

524
00:31:33,170 --> 00:31:36,890
Speaker 6: I was like very very very sick. I was like

525
00:31:37,050 --> 00:31:40,729
Speaker 6: in the process essentially of getting diagnosed with Crohn's disease.

526
00:31:41,730 --> 00:31:46,490
Speaker 2: Crones is an autoimmune disease. Life's intestine was attacking itself,

527
00:31:46,930 --> 00:31:49,370
Speaker 2: making it hard for him to do basic things like

528
00:31:49,530 --> 00:31:52,729
Speaker 2: walk or eat. In the years I knew him, though,

529
00:31:53,209 --> 00:31:55,890
Speaker 2: Laife didn't know he had crones. He didn't know what

530
00:31:55,970 --> 00:31:59,130
Speaker 2: was wrong with him. He was just getting worse and worse.

531
00:32:00,250 --> 00:32:03,930
Speaker 2: It took over two years of waiting rooms and misdiagnoses

532
00:32:04,170 --> 00:32:07,090
Speaker 2: before he finally got to a doctor who helped him

533
00:32:07,530 --> 00:32:10,450
Speaker 2: at that point he was so sick, but the doctor

534
00:32:10,490 --> 00:32:13,249
Speaker 2: pulled his mom aside to say that she thought Leife

535
00:32:13,330 --> 00:32:17,850
Speaker 2: might die. They immediately admitted him to the hospital, where

536
00:32:17,850 --> 00:32:26,090
Speaker 2: he stayed for three months. I'm not a monster, so

537
00:32:26,330 --> 00:32:29,050
Speaker 2: of course I'd never say that I'm happy someone was

538
00:32:29,090 --> 00:32:33,009
Speaker 2: so ill they almost died. But hearing all this, I

539
00:32:33,050 --> 00:32:36,170
Speaker 2: can't help but feel kind of relieved, because if life

540
00:32:36,250 --> 00:32:38,650
Speaker 2: was that sick the whole time I knew him, then

541
00:32:38,690 --> 00:32:41,809
Speaker 2: it wasn't about me not being good enough. There probably

542
00:32:41,850 --> 00:32:44,330
Speaker 2: just wasn't any space in his brain for dating and

543
00:32:44,410 --> 00:32:47,130
Speaker 2: crushes at all. So I put this to.

544
00:32:47,130 --> 00:32:50,610
Speaker 6: Liife, I for sure had crushes.

545
00:32:51,650 --> 00:32:54,569
Speaker 2: Well there goes that theory. Can I ask you how

546
00:32:54,610 --> 00:32:55,130
Speaker 2: to crush on?

547
00:32:56,650 --> 00:33:00,770
Speaker 6: Yeah? Yeah, I know I had a crush on Soca.

548
00:33:01,730 --> 00:33:04,170
Speaker 2: I was going to ask you that. Actually, that's what

549
00:33:04,250 --> 00:33:09,330
Speaker 2: I always suspected. You got me figured out circa up

550
00:33:09,330 --> 00:33:11,729
Speaker 2: at our school one year from Ireland, and all the

551
00:33:11,730 --> 00:33:15,529
Speaker 2: guys instantly loved her. Somehow, in that one year she

552
00:33:15,650 --> 00:33:19,450
Speaker 2: dated three or four people. I, as someone who'd never

553
00:33:19,530 --> 00:33:23,729
Speaker 2: dated anyone, found this profoundly unfair, Like what about the

554
00:33:23,730 --> 00:33:27,729
Speaker 2: rest of us? In my moments of insecurity, I always

555
00:33:27,810 --> 00:33:30,970
Speaker 2: used to think there's no way Life likes me, because

556
00:33:31,010 --> 00:33:34,249
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure he likes Cerca. So while on the

557
00:33:34,250 --> 00:33:37,450
Speaker 2: one hand, it's validating to hear that my read was right,

558
00:33:38,170 --> 00:33:41,009
Speaker 2: on the other hand, it's devastating to hear that my

559
00:33:41,090 --> 00:33:44,290
Speaker 2: read was right. I move on to my next theory.

560
00:33:44,890 --> 00:33:47,930
Speaker 2: Do you think that any of it was height related?

561
00:33:49,410 --> 00:33:51,610
Speaker 1: Uh?

562
00:33:52,050 --> 00:33:56,170
Speaker 6: I don't think so. I don't think so.

563
00:33:56,170 --> 00:33:59,289
Speaker 2: So what was my problem? I ask Laife if I

564
00:33:59,330 --> 00:34:02,690
Speaker 2: had some defect that prevented him from seeing me romantically,

565
00:34:03,410 --> 00:34:09,690
Speaker 2: and although he really thinks about it, an come up

566
00:34:09,690 --> 00:34:10,450
Speaker 2: with an answer.

567
00:34:10,930 --> 00:34:13,290
Speaker 6: I'm just trying to think if like, there has ever

568
00:34:13,370 --> 00:34:16,170
Speaker 6: been anyone where I like, I'd love to date this person,

569
00:34:16,210 --> 00:34:17,370
Speaker 6: but they've got this defect.

570
00:34:17,450 --> 00:34:21,170
Speaker 2: You know who he falls for. Life says has always

571
00:34:21,170 --> 00:34:30,930
Speaker 2: felt beyond words, especially in the eighth grade. Well, how

572
00:34:30,930 --> 00:34:33,610
Speaker 2: do you feel about talking? Am I freaking you out?

573
00:34:34,610 --> 00:34:34,810
Speaker 8: No?

574
00:34:34,930 --> 00:34:38,210
Speaker 6: Not at all. Okay, it's fun to catch up and

575
00:34:38,370 --> 00:34:41,130
Speaker 6: like hear what you remember. It's really nice to talk

576
00:34:41,170 --> 00:34:44,130
Speaker 6: to Yeah, you too, killy, and talk to you soon,

577
00:34:44,330 --> 00:34:45,130
Speaker 6: all right, talk.

578
00:34:45,010 --> 00:34:45,529
Speaker 12: To you soon.

579
00:34:51,690 --> 00:34:54,090
Speaker 2: I'd felt good while I was talking to Leife. He

580
00:34:54,250 --> 00:34:57,810
Speaker 2: was cool and nice, as he'd always been, and yet

581
00:34:58,210 --> 00:35:01,410
Speaker 2: as soon as we hang up, I suddenly feel really sad.

582
00:35:02,490 --> 00:35:05,250
Speaker 2: I sit there for a while alone in the studio,

583
00:35:06,210 --> 00:35:10,490
Speaker 2: and then, as I always have in times of stress, Hello, honey,

584
00:35:11,290 --> 00:35:14,690
Speaker 2: I call my mom. I filler in on the conversation

585
00:35:15,330 --> 00:35:18,770
Speaker 2: and how the only logical conclusion seems to be that, yes,

586
00:35:19,010 --> 00:35:22,690
Speaker 2: I was right, I am in fact undateable.

587
00:35:22,490 --> 00:35:23,770
Speaker 5: Who wouldn't want to date you?

588
00:35:23,610 --> 00:35:24,530
Speaker 12: You're awesome?

589
00:35:25,170 --> 00:35:29,050
Speaker 2: Thanks, And I mean, I know i'm your mother, but

590
00:35:29,170 --> 00:35:32,690
Speaker 2: that is also true. I feel like that's true in

591
00:35:32,770 --> 00:35:35,370
Speaker 2: terms of like people wanting to like be my friend,

592
00:35:35,530 --> 00:35:38,170
Speaker 2: but I don't feel like that's true for like dating.

593
00:35:39,570 --> 00:35:42,090
Speaker 9: You feel it not just from when you were younger, but.

594
00:35:42,090 --> 00:35:43,250
Speaker 2: You feel it even now.

595
00:35:43,650 --> 00:35:52,130
Speaker 9: Yeah, that makes me feel kind of sad. I'm sorry,

596
00:35:52,610 --> 00:35:54,890
Speaker 9: don't be sorry.

597
00:35:55,650 --> 00:35:57,410
Speaker 2: It makes me feel kind of sad, and it makes

598
00:35:57,410 --> 00:36:08,410
Speaker 2: me feel mad at people that don't see you. I

599
00:36:08,450 --> 00:36:10,130
Speaker 2: don't Oh. Yeah. I think I'm having a hard time

600
00:36:10,210 --> 00:36:12,970
Speaker 2: characterizing it because I do feel like weirdly emotional, but

601
00:36:13,050 --> 00:36:15,930
Speaker 2: also like he was nice and the conversation was good,

602
00:36:15,970 --> 00:36:17,410
Speaker 2: you know, So I don't want it to seem like

603
00:36:17,490 --> 00:36:19,650
Speaker 2: I thought he was like being an asshole or anything

604
00:36:19,730 --> 00:36:20,450
Speaker 2: like he wasn't.

605
00:36:21,210 --> 00:36:22,770
Speaker 5: I don't hear that from you at all.

606
00:36:22,890 --> 00:36:27,410
Speaker 2: I don't hear anything about any judgment about him. Yeah,

607
00:36:27,970 --> 00:36:32,410
Speaker 2: you trying to piece it together for you? Yeah, yeah,

608
00:36:32,610 --> 00:36:41,730
Speaker 2: give yourself a little space. I give myself several weeks

609
00:36:41,730 --> 00:36:45,050
Speaker 2: of space. And then as I keep trying to piece

610
00:36:45,050 --> 00:36:48,370
Speaker 2: it together, I decide there's one more person I want

611
00:36:48,370 --> 00:36:51,170
Speaker 2: to speak with. Very excited to talk to you. So

612
00:36:51,210 --> 00:36:53,450
Speaker 2: thanks for being up to do this weird thing.

613
00:36:54,050 --> 00:36:57,290
Speaker 12: Yeah, no, it is weird, and I definitely feel weird

614
00:36:57,330 --> 00:36:57,850
Speaker 12: about it.

615
00:36:58,850 --> 00:37:02,770
Speaker 2: This is Circa, the Irish girl that Lafe and the

616
00:37:02,850 --> 00:37:07,050
Speaker 2: rest of the entire fucking class was into. Because in

617
00:37:07,090 --> 00:37:09,410
Speaker 2: case it's not weird enough to reach out to my

618
00:37:09,490 --> 00:37:12,930
Speaker 2: crush after nearly twenty years, why not also reach out

619
00:37:13,170 --> 00:37:15,850
Speaker 2: to my crushes crush. I always suspected he had a

620
00:37:15,850 --> 00:37:18,250
Speaker 2: crush on you, and he said, yes, did you know.

621
00:37:18,210 --> 00:37:24,410
Speaker 12: That M like Jesus, like he would like he would

622
00:37:24,450 --> 00:37:26,330
Speaker 12: like burn CDs for me and stuff.

623
00:37:27,210 --> 00:37:28,090
Speaker 5: She knows.

624
00:37:28,410 --> 00:37:30,050
Speaker 1: I feel like he also gave.

625
00:37:29,850 --> 00:37:34,050
Speaker 12: Me a sticker that said George W. Bush is a

626
00:37:34,050 --> 00:37:35,450
Speaker 12: punk ass chump, So.

627
00:37:35,490 --> 00:37:37,970
Speaker 5: Like, yeah, I had an awareness.

628
00:37:38,490 --> 00:37:40,730
Speaker 2: I want to talk to Circa because I think of

629
00:37:40,770 --> 00:37:44,810
Speaker 2: her as the anti me like, here's how Circa's Valentine's

630
00:37:44,890 --> 00:37:47,650
Speaker 2: Day went. In junior high, she walked up to her

631
00:37:47,650 --> 00:37:50,610
Speaker 2: boyfriend at the time holding a Hers She's kiss and said,

632
00:37:51,050 --> 00:37:53,090
Speaker 2: do you want this or do you want a real one?

633
00:37:54,130 --> 00:37:57,450
Speaker 2: I wanted to tell me how she achieved such romantic success,

634
00:37:57,850 --> 00:38:00,969
Speaker 2: what she had that I didn't have. I had laid

635
00:38:00,970 --> 00:38:03,170
Speaker 2: all this out and my initial message to her.

636
00:38:03,730 --> 00:38:06,050
Speaker 12: So I said this to my husband and he was

637
00:38:06,130 --> 00:38:08,290
Speaker 12: kind of like, well, it's obvious, isn't it. Like you

638
00:38:08,330 --> 00:38:11,410
Speaker 12: were just new and it And I think that's exactly it.

639
00:38:11,610 --> 00:38:14,330
Speaker 12: Like you guys had all been together from the age

640
00:38:14,370 --> 00:38:19,130
Speaker 12: of two, do you know? So I literally was just

641
00:38:19,210 --> 00:38:21,690
Speaker 12: new and different. I honestly think it was that simple.

642
00:38:22,050 --> 00:38:23,970
Speaker 2: I think that's part of it. But I feel like

643
00:38:24,010 --> 00:38:27,450
Speaker 2: there was something about your personality too, Like I feel

644
00:38:27,490 --> 00:38:31,530
Speaker 2: like there was some like charisma or like confidence or

645
00:38:31,730 --> 00:38:33,650
Speaker 2: I don't know. I feel like I think.

646
00:38:33,490 --> 00:38:36,210
Speaker 12: That that has got to be fakeatily make it though,

647
00:38:36,250 --> 00:38:40,050
Speaker 12: doesn't it? Because looking back and looking at the challenge

648
00:38:40,090 --> 00:38:43,650
Speaker 12: that was laid at my doorstep, I probably just leant

649
00:38:43,690 --> 00:38:46,969
Speaker 12: into some kind of confident persona.

650
00:38:48,050 --> 00:38:51,490
Speaker 2: Sarah only attended Near North for a single year, and

651
00:38:51,530 --> 00:38:55,250
Speaker 2: it wasn't an easy transition because of her mom's job.

652
00:38:55,570 --> 00:38:58,730
Speaker 2: She was upbraided at twelve years old and plopped down

653
00:38:58,810 --> 00:39:02,330
Speaker 2: in a foreign country. Her dad, all her old friends

654
00:39:02,730 --> 00:39:05,969
Speaker 2: stayed back in Ireland. She remembers the day she came

655
00:39:06,010 --> 00:39:07,970
Speaker 2: to visit our school for the first time.

656
00:39:08,090 --> 00:39:10,250
Speaker 12: And I remember crying, and I remember saying, I don't

657
00:39:10,250 --> 00:39:15,650
Speaker 12: want to go there. My memory isn't a feeling invincible

658
00:39:15,730 --> 00:39:22,450
Speaker 12: or anything like, quite the opposite, like.

659
00:39:20,210 --> 00:39:23,290
Speaker 3: Like overwhelmed and shut down.

660
00:39:23,410 --> 00:39:23,570
Speaker 8: You know.

661
00:39:25,170 --> 00:39:28,050
Speaker 2: It's that sense of panic. Sirka thinks that made her

662
00:39:28,050 --> 00:39:31,370
Speaker 2: act so confident when she started school with us. It

663
00:39:31,450 --> 00:39:34,690
Speaker 2: was her way of managing Still, in the year I

664
00:39:34,730 --> 00:39:38,410
Speaker 2: knew her, she often felt insecure, and dating didn't make

665
00:39:38,410 --> 00:39:43,010
Speaker 2: that feeling go away anyway you cut it. Boyfriend, No

666
00:39:43,170 --> 00:39:54,610
Speaker 2: boyfriend junior high is hard, Sarka tells me she's been

667
00:39:54,610 --> 00:39:57,210
Speaker 2: married for about a year and a half. Now, how

668
00:39:57,250 --> 00:40:01,370
Speaker 2: did you guys meet? We went on Tinder. I'd ask

669
00:40:01,450 --> 00:40:04,650
Speaker 2: Slafe the same question about how he met his partner.

670
00:40:05,170 --> 00:40:09,250
Speaker 6: Actually through Tinder. We are a tender success story. My

671
00:40:09,290 --> 00:40:12,450
Speaker 6: boyfriend threw tender too, nice.

672
00:40:11,890 --> 00:40:15,490
Speaker 2: Sarca life me. Even though I always felt like they

673
00:40:15,530 --> 00:40:19,290
Speaker 2: had some power, I lacked. Almost two decades later, we

674
00:40:19,370 --> 00:40:22,610
Speaker 2: all ended up in the same place, living with people

675
00:40:22,890 --> 00:40:32,010
Speaker 2: we met on Tinder. Back when I talked with my

676
00:40:32,050 --> 00:40:34,890
Speaker 2: friend Karina, I'd asked her what her impression had been

677
00:40:34,930 --> 00:40:37,290
Speaker 2: to me when we knew each other in junior high.

678
00:40:38,010 --> 00:40:42,930
Speaker 8: Oh my gosh, Kayleie, I adored you. I remember you

679
00:40:43,050 --> 00:40:48,450
Speaker 8: being very intelligent, you were very funny. I know you

680
00:40:48,570 --> 00:40:51,930
Speaker 8: like you were, you were tall, just you know, at

681
00:40:51,970 --> 00:40:54,410
Speaker 8: that age, I feel like you always look at everyone

682
00:40:54,450 --> 00:40:57,690
Speaker 8: else and like, don't form your confidence or like embrace

683
00:40:57,850 --> 00:41:01,650
Speaker 8: every bit of yourself until later in life, and I

684
00:41:01,690 --> 00:41:04,650
Speaker 8: remember being like, she has so many things going for her,

685
00:41:04,770 --> 00:41:10,570
Speaker 8: Like I. I hope that she because comes more confident.

686
00:41:12,330 --> 00:41:15,290
Speaker 2: My past self was tall and awkward and the boy

687
00:41:15,330 --> 00:41:18,730
Speaker 2: I liked didn't like me. And all these years later,

688
00:41:19,130 --> 00:41:22,690
Speaker 2: I'm still tall and still awkward, and I still often

689
00:41:22,690 --> 00:41:27,850
Speaker 2: feel left behind by romance. But then again, the junior

690
00:41:27,930 --> 00:41:30,130
Speaker 2: high me would never have had the courage to have

691
00:41:30,170 --> 00:41:34,810
Speaker 2: these conversations at all. So maybe I did become more confident,

692
00:41:35,770 --> 00:41:38,650
Speaker 2: and some people do want to date me. I'd want

693
00:41:38,650 --> 00:41:44,050
Speaker 2: to date me. These days, I don't think too much

694
00:41:44,050 --> 00:41:47,450
Speaker 2: about Valentine's Day. It turns out that I don't like

695
00:41:47,530 --> 00:41:51,009
Speaker 2: being one of those performative couples anymore than I liked

696
00:41:51,050 --> 00:41:56,530
Speaker 2: watching those performative couples this year. On February fourteenth, my

697
00:41:56,610 --> 00:42:01,370
Speaker 2: boyfriend made dinner. I did the dishes. Happy Tuesday, He said,

698
00:42:02,090 --> 00:42:07,410
Speaker 2: Happy Tuesday. I said. Then we watched TV. It was

699
00:42:07,490 --> 00:42:45,490
Speaker 2: nice now that the fern ures returning to its goodwill home,

700
00:42:48,970 --> 00:42:53,370
Speaker 2: now that the last month's rent is skiing with the

701
00:42:53,570 --> 00:43:01,290
Speaker 2: damage to post, take this moment to dissolve, if we message.

702
00:43:00,890 --> 00:43:05,130
Speaker 3: If we tried, she felt.

703
00:43:04,850 --> 00:43:07,210
Speaker 2: Around for five two months.

704
00:43:08,730 --> 00:43:11,650
Speaker 3: From things accidentally.

705
00:43:15,130 --> 00:43:20,690
Speaker 2: Hello Hello, so as promised. My conversation with Anna Konkle,

706
00:43:20,970 --> 00:43:24,450
Speaker 2: co creator of Penn fifteen, we talked about how emotional

707
00:43:24,490 --> 00:43:27,370
Speaker 2: and viscerally bizarre it is to return to that middle

708
00:43:27,410 --> 00:43:29,130
Speaker 2: school space again as an adult.

709
00:43:29,690 --> 00:43:34,650
Speaker 13: I mean it was so humiliating. Yeah, Like the first season, especially,

710
00:43:35,290 --> 00:43:36,410
Speaker 13: nobody knew what it was.

711
00:43:36,570 --> 00:43:37,810
Speaker 5: The crew didn't know what it was.

712
00:43:38,050 --> 00:43:40,930
Speaker 13: So people signed up to come on set and a

713
00:43:40,930 --> 00:43:43,490
Speaker 13: lot of them haven't even read the script and they're like,

714
00:43:43,530 --> 00:43:45,569
Speaker 13: what the fuck did I sign up for?

715
00:43:45,810 --> 00:43:47,730
Speaker 5: Like day one, Maya's and her.

716
00:43:47,570 --> 00:43:51,489
Speaker 13: Bowlcut masturbating, like okay, wait, we're really going to try

717
00:43:51,490 --> 00:43:54,650
Speaker 13: to play thirteen, like this is so embarrassing, and then

718
00:43:54,690 --> 00:43:57,530
Speaker 13: being surrounded by the real kids and stepping on stage

719
00:43:57,530 --> 00:43:58,010
Speaker 13: and be like.

720
00:43:58,010 --> 00:44:01,810
Speaker 5: Were you haha, you don't really think we are We're thirty.

721
00:44:02,570 --> 00:44:05,730
Speaker 13: The night before it came out, I just got in

722
00:44:05,770 --> 00:44:08,050
Speaker 13: like the fetal position on the floor and was like,

723
00:44:08,770 --> 00:44:09,090
Speaker 13: this is.

724
00:44:09,290 --> 00:44:12,410
Speaker 5: So embarrassing, Like what did you do?

725
00:44:13,610 --> 00:44:15,930
Speaker 13: And you know what the truth is is it felt

726
00:44:15,930 --> 00:44:19,770
Speaker 13: embarrassing for years after actually, like people would come up

727
00:44:19,810 --> 00:44:21,290
Speaker 13: to me and say like, I love it, and I'd

728
00:44:21,290 --> 00:44:21,610
Speaker 13: be like.

729
00:44:22,410 --> 00:44:26,090
Speaker 2: What are you doing today, Like yeah.

730
00:44:25,490 --> 00:44:28,570
Speaker 5: I couldn't hear it. It just I felt so naked.

731
00:44:29,250 --> 00:44:33,330
Speaker 13: How was it for you making this versus when people

732
00:44:33,370 --> 00:44:34,530
Speaker 13: started listening to it?

733
00:44:34,690 --> 00:44:37,170
Speaker 5: Or have you had and waves of.

734
00:44:37,170 --> 00:44:39,930
Speaker 2: This writing it and putting it together and like playing

735
00:44:39,930 --> 00:44:42,530
Speaker 2: it for people here was actually like positive, Like I

736
00:44:42,530 --> 00:44:44,690
Speaker 2: felt like, oh, I'm really expressing what I felt and

737
00:44:44,730 --> 00:44:48,370
Speaker 2: it's connecting with people. And then I feel like once

738
00:44:48,410 --> 00:44:50,489
Speaker 2: it was out in the world, it was a bit

739
00:44:50,530 --> 00:44:52,530
Speaker 2: more of a mixed bag than I was expecting.

740
00:44:52,570 --> 00:44:53,810
Speaker 5: I mean, how people felt.

741
00:44:54,010 --> 00:44:56,170
Speaker 2: Yeah, like there were people who really connected with it,

742
00:44:56,850 --> 00:44:59,210
Speaker 2: but there were a lot of people who hated it.

743
00:44:59,410 --> 00:45:03,410
Speaker 13: Really I loved it, I mean, but obviously I'm gonna

744
00:45:03,410 --> 00:45:05,330
Speaker 13: love it, I guess.

745
00:45:05,650 --> 00:45:07,570
Speaker 2: I mean that is something I was curious about cause

746
00:45:07,570 --> 00:45:09,330
Speaker 2: I feel like there were people who just I don't

747
00:45:09,370 --> 00:45:12,130
Speaker 2: understand why middle school would be important or why you

748
00:45:12,130 --> 00:45:13,850
Speaker 2: would want to think about it or go back to it,

749
00:45:13,930 --> 00:45:15,650
Speaker 2: Like have you run into that at all? Are there

750
00:45:15,650 --> 00:45:17,170
Speaker 2: people who just don't think about it?

751
00:45:17,250 --> 00:45:21,450
Speaker 13: There's something about it that makes people really uneasy. Yeah,

752
00:45:21,450 --> 00:45:25,810
Speaker 13: from the pitches of us first talking about it, so

753
00:45:26,090 --> 00:45:30,050
Speaker 13: many men in particular actually like had to get up

754
00:45:30,050 --> 00:45:32,890
Speaker 13: from a table or would be like I'm getting nauseous.

755
00:45:32,890 --> 00:45:38,690
Speaker 5: Sorry, hold on. Maybe it's like physiological disassociation. Yeah, that

756
00:45:38,770 --> 00:45:39,930
Speaker 5: a lot of people can do.

757
00:45:48,770 --> 00:45:51,570
Speaker 2: What was it like like working with the kids, Like

758
00:45:51,610 --> 00:45:53,170
Speaker 2: do you feel like you had to translate to them

759
00:45:53,250 --> 00:45:54,250
Speaker 2: or did they kind of get it?

760
00:45:54,970 --> 00:45:58,410
Speaker 13: Most of the kids, when they're actually thirteen, aren't at

761
00:45:58,410 --> 00:45:59,810
Speaker 13: an age that they're going.

762
00:46:00,130 --> 00:46:02,730
Speaker 5: Oh, yeah, I get why that would be. They're like,

763
00:46:03,250 --> 00:46:07,250
Speaker 5: I didn't do that yesterday, right, if that's true? Just

764
00:46:07,530 --> 00:46:08,090
Speaker 5: so in.

765
00:46:08,090 --> 00:46:11,890
Speaker 13: It, like seeing the social dynamics play out on set,

766
00:46:12,170 --> 00:46:15,170
Speaker 13: that was very meta. There would I won't say who,

767
00:46:15,210 --> 00:46:17,730
Speaker 13: but it would be like, oh, okay, he's the most popular.

768
00:46:17,930 --> 00:46:18,730
Speaker 3: He's the most.

769
00:46:18,490 --> 00:46:22,050
Speaker 13: Popular yeah, like all the guys are texting her or whatever,

770
00:46:22,210 --> 00:46:25,450
Speaker 13: and and we always found the right kids.

771
00:46:25,450 --> 00:46:27,890
Speaker 5: I thought the kids in your podcasts were great.

772
00:46:28,090 --> 00:46:32,450
Speaker 2: Thanks to my My dad runs a community theater in Iowa,

773
00:46:32,610 --> 00:46:36,770
Speaker 2: and he helped me cast those kids. That was very sweet. Yeah,

774
00:46:37,130 --> 00:46:40,330
Speaker 2: did you do community theater growing up? Yeah? I was

775
00:46:40,370 --> 00:46:43,410
Speaker 2: never very good, but I because my dad like ran

776
00:46:43,490 --> 00:46:46,050
Speaker 2: these like kids summer camps and stuff. I did always go.

777
00:46:46,250 --> 00:46:48,130
Speaker 5: That's a lot of pressure for your dad to run

778
00:46:48,210 --> 00:46:51,410
Speaker 5: it and then like auditioning for your day.

779
00:46:51,450 --> 00:46:53,690
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think I wanted to be more of a

780
00:46:53,810 --> 00:46:56,250
Speaker 2: like a star because I wanted to be like close

781
00:46:56,290 --> 00:46:57,090
Speaker 2: to my dad, you know.

782
00:46:57,370 --> 00:46:59,250
Speaker 5: But I relate to that too.

783
00:46:59,330 --> 00:47:02,489
Speaker 13: I remember going on like some work trip with him,

784
00:47:02,650 --> 00:47:05,529
Speaker 13: and I remember like going to a pub and they're

785
00:47:05,570 --> 00:47:09,290
Speaker 13: being karaoke and a girl went up and sang yeah

786
00:47:09,810 --> 00:47:13,730
Speaker 13: Nowhere Man by the Beatles, and he was like, wow,

787
00:47:14,010 --> 00:47:17,690
Speaker 13: she's incredible. He almost like cried and he was clapping

788
00:47:17,730 --> 00:47:21,250
Speaker 13: in a really intense way. I don't remember what song

789
00:47:21,330 --> 00:47:24,770
Speaker 13: I sang next, but I sang a song and I

790
00:47:24,890 --> 00:47:27,930
Speaker 13: remember like finishing and like waiting for the same eyes

791
00:47:28,090 --> 00:47:30,250
Speaker 13: and being like I'm.

792
00:47:30,170 --> 00:47:33,130
Speaker 5: Right here, Dad, and be like no, that was good.

793
00:47:45,370 --> 00:47:47,090
Speaker 5: I had been estranged from my dad.

794
00:47:47,210 --> 00:47:49,970
Speaker 13: I mean, this is another actually crazy layer to the

795
00:47:49,970 --> 00:47:52,650
Speaker 13: whole show. It's like I hadn't seen my dad in

796
00:47:52,690 --> 00:47:56,210
Speaker 13: five years, but I'm like acting with the TV version

797
00:47:56,250 --> 00:48:01,250
Speaker 13: of my dad and the one that I missed. Yeah,

798
00:48:01,330 --> 00:48:05,530
Speaker 13: and about a year before we started writing the last season,

799
00:48:05,610 --> 00:48:08,450
Speaker 13: my dad and I had sort of been like communicating

800
00:48:08,770 --> 00:48:10,610
Speaker 13: more and trying to fix things.

801
00:48:10,690 --> 00:48:14,650
Speaker 5: And then he called me and found out he had cancer.

802
00:48:15,250 --> 00:48:16,850
Speaker 2: Oh man, and.

803
00:48:18,330 --> 00:48:19,210
Speaker 5: Filming started.

804
00:48:19,610 --> 00:48:19,970
Speaker 2: Whoa.

805
00:48:20,730 --> 00:48:24,890
Speaker 13: So I was like trying to manage nurses and all

806
00:48:24,930 --> 00:48:27,170
Speaker 13: these other things and be there as much as I

807
00:48:27,210 --> 00:48:30,810
Speaker 13: possibly could, flying back and forth and filming the show.

808
00:48:31,450 --> 00:48:35,370
Speaker 13: But there were these scenes that were like overlapping with

809
00:48:35,450 --> 00:48:40,650
Speaker 13: these huge moments where like my dad went to hospice

810
00:48:41,090 --> 00:48:44,530
Speaker 13: and I had to go back to la and film

811
00:48:44,690 --> 00:48:50,570
Speaker 13: the scene where Curtis moves out of the house and

812
00:48:50,570 --> 00:48:52,770
Speaker 13: gets an apartment and he has like a midlife crisis

813
00:48:52,810 --> 00:48:54,850
Speaker 13: and gets this seabring convertible.

814
00:48:55,050 --> 00:48:57,050
Speaker 5: Yeah, and we're in.

815
00:48:57,050 --> 00:48:59,930
Speaker 13: The convertible, like the camera's right on us as we're

816
00:49:00,010 --> 00:49:02,610
Speaker 13: driving at night with the top down and the air

817
00:49:03,090 --> 00:49:05,090
Speaker 13: the cold air blasting, which is like what my dad

818
00:49:05,090 --> 00:49:08,970
Speaker 13: and I always did. And he had had that same seabring,

819
00:49:09,170 --> 00:49:12,890
Speaker 13: and we're having the talk about him moving out just

820
00:49:12,930 --> 00:49:16,130
Speaker 13: as my dad's gone into hospice, like moving out of.

821
00:49:16,170 --> 00:49:19,090
Speaker 2: The world, right, yeah, yeah.

822
00:49:18,610 --> 00:49:22,210
Speaker 5: And I just lost it. Talk about feeling like a

823
00:49:22,330 --> 00:49:23,610
Speaker 5: kid as an adult.

824
00:49:30,850 --> 00:49:35,690
Speaker 13: There was something about the extremeness of what we were

825
00:49:35,690 --> 00:49:38,489
Speaker 13: trying to do, like, oh, we're building sets that look

826
00:49:38,610 --> 00:49:39,530
Speaker 13: like our real houses.

827
00:49:40,570 --> 00:49:42,090
Speaker 5: It was like stepping into a memory.

828
00:49:42,330 --> 00:49:46,770
Speaker 2: Were there particular scenes that were particularly intense to shoot?

829
00:49:48,650 --> 00:49:53,810
Speaker 13: Definitely the first day of filming at my house, Anna

830
00:49:53,890 --> 00:49:58,530
Speaker 13: Cone's you know house I had given so many specifics about.

831
00:49:58,650 --> 00:50:02,610
Speaker 13: It was nicer than my real house probably, But you know,

832
00:50:02,730 --> 00:50:06,330
Speaker 13: my parents in real life divorced, they told me in

833
00:50:06,410 --> 00:50:11,930
Speaker 13: seventh grade or eighth grade, and I've just had such

834
00:50:11,970 --> 00:50:16,410
Speaker 13: a hard time accepting their divorce and walking in and

835
00:50:16,490 --> 00:50:19,290
Speaker 13: seeing the house with like both of their things, like

836
00:50:19,410 --> 00:50:23,370
Speaker 13: the drops being like together, like the loon blanket that

837
00:50:23,410 --> 00:50:25,410
Speaker 13: I had described my dad having, or the kind of

838
00:50:25,490 --> 00:50:27,850
Speaker 13: lounger you know that he had that went to his

839
00:50:27,890 --> 00:50:29,850
Speaker 13: apartment and what my mom got to eat, and it

840
00:50:29,890 --> 00:50:32,570
Speaker 13: was like it was all intermingled. And then on the

841
00:50:32,610 --> 00:50:36,330
Speaker 13: bookshelves or all of these like half funny half devastating

842
00:50:36,370 --> 00:50:39,850
Speaker 13: pictures of me between two loving parents and they're my

843
00:50:40,210 --> 00:50:42,490
Speaker 13: you know, set parents. So it was like silly, but

844
00:50:42,610 --> 00:50:46,010
Speaker 13: I just wanted to cry. I was like going back

845
00:50:46,570 --> 00:50:48,290
Speaker 13: to when to the good times, you know, and it

846
00:50:48,330 --> 00:50:50,250
Speaker 13: was a better version of the good times than what

847
00:50:50,410 --> 00:50:50,770
Speaker 13: I had.

848
00:50:50,810 --> 00:50:53,250
Speaker 5: Really have a lot of pictures the three of us.

849
00:50:53,530 --> 00:50:56,450
Speaker 2: I mean, like after doing the show and like being

850
00:50:56,490 --> 00:50:58,730
Speaker 2: in those moments again, do you see anything in that

851
00:50:58,810 --> 00:51:01,529
Speaker 2: time differently? Like did it change your perspective at all?

852
00:51:02,370 --> 00:51:08,330
Speaker 13: H I think it's interesting how people at that age

853
00:51:08,650 --> 00:51:12,810
Speaker 13: have such different relationships with their own sexuality, Like that

854
00:51:12,970 --> 00:51:16,529
Speaker 13: part in your podcast, in the episode where the sort

855
00:51:16,530 --> 00:51:19,810
Speaker 13: of popular girl goes up to the guy and gives

856
00:51:19,890 --> 00:51:22,810
Speaker 13: him hers she kiss and says, like what does she say?

857
00:51:23,130 --> 00:51:23,210
Speaker 6: So?

858
00:51:23,290 --> 00:51:24,730
Speaker 2: Do you want this or do you want a real

859
00:51:24,810 --> 00:51:29,170
Speaker 2: one that's like the Like I was like, well, I

860
00:51:29,210 --> 00:51:33,489
Speaker 2: don't have that DNA, Like I don't understand, And then

861
00:51:33,530 --> 00:51:36,210
Speaker 2: she sort of went on to say, I think I

862
00:51:36,290 --> 00:51:39,770
Speaker 2: created this persona, right, but how much is that persona?

863
00:51:40,290 --> 00:51:43,610
Speaker 13: And how much is that just a different physical comfort?

864
00:51:44,250 --> 00:51:47,090
Speaker 13: I was always like such a goodie two shoes in

865
00:51:47,130 --> 00:51:50,370
Speaker 13: that way, and like kind of known as a prude,

866
00:51:51,010 --> 00:51:52,049
Speaker 13: and I.

867
00:51:52,050 --> 00:51:54,210
Speaker 5: Was just not physically.

868
00:51:55,450 --> 00:52:02,090
Speaker 13: Interested in guys like that, and if somehow they were

869
00:52:02,130 --> 00:52:04,930
Speaker 13: like sensing because my friends were more comfortable with that.

870
00:52:05,410 --> 00:52:07,930
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it's a good point. I think similarly, I

871
00:52:08,290 --> 00:52:10,210
Speaker 2: was not the most comfortab with it either, Like I

872
00:52:10,210 --> 00:52:13,930
Speaker 2: would have these infatuations with people, but Tybia just meant like,

873
00:52:13,930 --> 00:52:16,610
Speaker 2: we're going to have this mental connection where we understand

874
00:52:16,650 --> 00:52:17,090
Speaker 2: each other.

875
00:52:17,250 --> 00:52:19,330
Speaker 5: Yeah, yes, like it was romantic.

876
00:52:19,450 --> 00:52:19,930
Speaker 2: Yeah.

877
00:52:20,010 --> 00:52:23,650
Speaker 13: I remember when we first conceived a pen and our

878
00:52:24,210 --> 00:52:26,290
Speaker 13: agents or something being like, you need to add like

879
00:52:26,370 --> 00:52:29,810
Speaker 13: character descriptions, and we just knew how we'd play them,

880
00:52:29,850 --> 00:52:33,930
Speaker 13: but we hadn't been putting words to it. And that

881
00:52:34,130 --> 00:52:38,330
Speaker 13: was one distinction that I finally was like, she's romantic.

882
00:52:38,570 --> 00:52:40,890
Speaker 2: Do you remember what else you said in your character description.

883
00:52:41,010 --> 00:52:42,770
Speaker 2: I'm like, I would find it so hard to have

884
00:52:42,850 --> 00:52:46,170
Speaker 2: to like sum myself up in a character way, right, Yeah.

885
00:52:46,490 --> 00:52:51,050
Speaker 13: Yeah, I think like tall bad posture. I think that

886
00:52:51,130 --> 00:52:54,210
Speaker 13: I would have had the like hand over my stomach

887
00:52:54,410 --> 00:53:00,210
Speaker 13: that I always did loyal to a false friend probably

888
00:53:00,450 --> 00:53:06,170
Speaker 13: like gets her identity from how much she admires Maya,

889
00:53:06,290 --> 00:53:09,890
Speaker 13: and the fact that my admires her back gives Anna confidence.

890
00:53:10,010 --> 00:53:12,090
Speaker 2: I mean, that's another thing I feel like you guys

891
00:53:12,210 --> 00:53:14,890
Speaker 2: captured so well. Was just like the energy that having

892
00:53:14,890 --> 00:53:17,370
Speaker 2: a friendship like that gives you where you're like feeding

893
00:53:17,410 --> 00:53:19,170
Speaker 2: on each other and amping each other up.

894
00:53:19,330 --> 00:53:21,690
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was the saddest part I think about it.

895
00:53:21,810 --> 00:53:27,170
Speaker 13: Ending was like that innocence of friendship as actors and

896
00:53:27,930 --> 00:53:31,650
Speaker 13: adult best friends of going like right now we get

897
00:53:31,650 --> 00:53:35,450
Speaker 13: to live in this world where playing thirteen is like

898
00:53:35,890 --> 00:53:38,450
Speaker 13: you are just glued at the hip and as you

899
00:53:38,490 --> 00:53:43,650
Speaker 13: get older, you know, so many of us will lean

900
00:53:43,730 --> 00:53:50,330
Speaker 13: on their romantic act to you know, like to a

901
00:53:50,450 --> 00:53:51,370
Speaker 13: romantic partner.

902
00:53:51,610 --> 00:53:53,850
Speaker 2: I feel like that's part of what's sad sometimes about

903
00:53:54,210 --> 00:53:56,530
Speaker 2: being single as an adult is that everyone does lean

904
00:53:56,610 --> 00:53:58,890
Speaker 2: so much on their partner and you're like, wait, where

905
00:53:59,090 --> 00:54:02,010
Speaker 2: I now, I'm not anybody's number one because they're number one?

906
00:54:02,090 --> 00:54:05,690
Speaker 2: Is the person at their west? Like yeah, yeah.

907
00:54:05,170 --> 00:54:07,490
Speaker 13: I think it's something I've really struggled with, to be honest,

908
00:54:07,610 --> 00:54:10,810
Speaker 13: and adulting is that expectation same?

909
00:54:11,490 --> 00:54:14,090
Speaker 5: You know, I'm lucky that May and I think are

910
00:54:14,090 --> 00:54:17,170
Speaker 5: a little bit aware of it and we will go

911
00:54:17,290 --> 00:54:18,410
Speaker 5: to the doctors with each.

912
00:54:18,290 --> 00:54:21,529
Speaker 13: Other, like, you know, there's things like but I think

913
00:54:22,610 --> 00:54:36,370
Speaker 13: it's not the norm.

914
00:54:36,410 --> 00:54:38,650
Speaker 2: Thanks so much to Anna and to everyone who helped

915
00:54:38,650 --> 00:54:41,490
Speaker 2: put this episode together, and for all my fellow pen

916
00:54:41,570 --> 00:54:44,210
Speaker 2: fifteen fans out there. You can listen to my full

917
00:54:44,250 --> 00:54:47,930
Speaker 2: conversation with Anna if you subscribe to Pushkin Plus. I

918
00:54:48,010 --> 00:54:50,290
Speaker 2: was very excited to get all this insight into making

919
00:54:50,330 --> 00:54:53,010
Speaker 2: the show, and I don't want to hoard that insight

920
00:54:53,170 --> 00:54:57,210
Speaker 2: from other pen fifteen heads, So go to pushkin dot fm,

921
00:54:57,250 --> 00:55:01,049
Speaker 2: slash plus to sign up. We'll be back next week

922
00:55:01,130 --> 00:55:04,730
Speaker 2: with our final encore of the summer, and then the

923
00:55:04,770 --> 00:55:11,010
Speaker 2: new season of Heavyweight begins September eighteenth, inst