1 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: Hi. 2 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 2: I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 2: and speaker. 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 3: And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer, 5 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 3: and course creator. We are two working parents who love 6 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 3: our careers and our families. 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about 8 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 2: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 2: from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. 10 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 2: We want you to get the most out of life. 11 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,279 Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This 12 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 2: episode is airing sort of mid to late May of 13 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. Our title is Conquer the World in 14 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 2: forty Hours a Week, which what we're getting at here 15 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 2: is an episode about building career capital and raising your 16 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 2: profile without work working around the clock. I think there's 17 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 2: often a misconception that if you want to do anything 18 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 2: ambitiously with your career, you need to be working eighty 19 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 2: hours a week or something, and we emphatically believe that 20 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 2: is not the case, partly because we don't believe people 21 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 2: generally work eighty hours a week, even when they claim 22 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 2: they do. 23 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 3: Right, Sarah, yep, I think this is one of the 24 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 3: highlights of one of your books that we're going to 25 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 3: talk about that you expose some of the myths around this. 26 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 3: But this is hard, and I mean we're going to 27 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 3: talk about how many hours we work, and I already 28 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 3: can picture people listening to this who are going to 29 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 3: be like, that's so low. I can't believe they're getting 30 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 3: anything done of substance. I work so much more than that. 31 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 3: That's a lame number. So there's like weird judge layers 32 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 3: around this, but I think there's also a lot of 33 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 3: just like blatant dishonesty. So it's a very interesting thing 34 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 3: to think about. 35 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I track my time, so I am 36 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 2: aware of my work hours, and you know, I will 37 00:01:58,200 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: admit here that I did it as well. Like I 38 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 2: used to talk about working fifty hours a week, and 39 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 2: even that was when I was tracking my time after 40 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 2: writing one hundred and sixty eight hours. I'd track a 41 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 2: week here and there, but I would always choose specific 42 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 2: weeks to track, and it was ones where I knew 43 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 2: I was going to be at my desk the whole week, 44 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 2: like I wasn't gonna have something else, There wasn't something 45 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 2: major coming up that would pull me away from it, 46 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 2: and so shockingly like, if everything goes perfectly, I am 47 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 2: working longer hours. 48 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: But that doesn't always happen. 49 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 2: And so when I began tracking my time continuously, the 50 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 2: average those first few years was about forty and since 51 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 2: it's dipped a little bit more, I tend to be 52 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 2: working more like thirty five to forty hours a week 53 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: is the average, the long term average on my time logs. 54 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: Sarah, have you tracked this loosely? 55 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 3: I mean I went back and kind of looked at 56 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 3: my planner the week. Clinical work is easy, I mean 57 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 3: I can see when I have patients and when I don't, 58 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 3: and I have like basically two and two thirds clinical days, 59 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 3: and I tend to work the rest of that other 60 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 3: one doing sm other stuff. So it's like, but then 61 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 3: the rest of it often gets chopped up by varyious things. 62 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 3: So I would estimate thirty five ish, I mean, on 63 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 3: a good week. 64 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 2: But I would like to point out that Sarah earns 65 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 2: a good salary and is raising her profile with her 66 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 2: various creative endeavors as well. 67 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 3: I also will raise my hand and say I think 68 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 3: I do things really fast. 69 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 1: Yes, there is that as well. 70 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 2: Yes, she is very efficient which is one of the 71 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 2: ways that you can make space for career building activities 72 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 2: even if you are going to work more in the 73 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 2: forty hour a week range. 74 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. 75 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 2: When I did research for I Know How She Does It, 76 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 2: which was a time diary study looking at women who 77 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 2: earned six figures and also have kids at home, most 78 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 2: people were not working around the clock. The average on 79 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 2: my time logs was just a hair north of forty 80 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 2: hours a week, and that included people working in all 81 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 2: sorts of careers like the tech industry, finance, legal world, 82 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 2: all those things that we think of as being long hours, consulting, 83 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 2: and that was where the average was. The person who 84 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 2: was working the longest in the week that we looked 85 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: at was working sixty nine hours, So nobody worked over 86 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 2: seventy hours. And the person who was working sixty nine 87 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 2: was an accountant in busy season, and she sent me 88 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 2: her file of her work hours because she does track 89 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 2: them for the entire year basically, and we looked at 90 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 2: it and her average of billable hours was about fifty 91 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 2: which means that she was probably working about fifty five 92 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 2: to sixty hours a week on average. 93 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: So it's not eighty. 94 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 2: Even people in sort of extreme hours things, and somebody's 95 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 2: gonna write us a, look, I. 96 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 3: Did eighty yeah during residency, and when there's times that 97 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 3: you're you kind of are working eighty I mean there's 98 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 3: not a lot of it's maybe not all intense work, 99 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 3: but you're allowed to work up to eighty hours. And 100 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 3: there were definitely significant numbers of weeks where that actually 101 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 3: was happening with maybe like maybe it was more like 102 00:04:57,640 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 3: seventy four with like a little bit of sleep, one 103 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 3: ho on call or something. Then you know there's a 104 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 3: reason there's a time limited amount that people do that, 105 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 3: Like no one's going to sign up to do that forever. 106 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 2: Forever, yeah, because it's not really sustainable. And so anyway, 107 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 2: that's always something no. But that's something I always you know, 108 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 2: push back against when people talk about, oh, well, you know, 109 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,479 Speaker 2: you shouldn't consider this career because the hours are going 110 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 2: to be crazy. And I think that's one of the 111 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 2: ways that men try to get women out of their 112 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 2: competition is by claiming that you have to work around 113 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 2: the clock, and then if you look at how they're 114 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 2: actually working, in many cases they aren't working those hours, 115 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 2: or if you know, they're somewhere for those hours, they're 116 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 2: not actually working, they're doing whatever because they don't feel 117 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 2: like coming home. I don't know that's people's own problem. 118 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 2: But giving that the vast majority of people do not 119 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: work seventy hours a week, the reality is you have 120 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 2: to be able to work less than that advance your 121 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,359 Speaker 2: career because people are advancing in their careers and not 122 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 2: working seventy hours a week. I mean, there was even 123 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 2: a time dary study of like CEOs of major companies 124 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 2: and it was not seventy hours a week. So you 125 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 2: can build your career working limited hours, but if you 126 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 2: want to progress, it's important to be smart about how 127 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 2: you allocate your hours, and so part of that is 128 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 2: making sure that you make space for the career capital 129 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 2: building stuff and put this into your schedule with a 130 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 2: more prominent emphasis as opposed to leaving it for the end, 131 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 2: which is I think what a lot of us tend 132 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 2: to do. 133 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: But first you know to. 134 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 2: Do that, you want to know what those career capital 135 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 2: building activities are, the things that would raise your profile 136 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 2: and helpful to even make a list, like Sarah in 137 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 2: your life, what do you think of as the career 138 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 2: capital building activities? 139 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, there's definitely two sides of my career. 140 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 3: I feel like on the clinical side, like developing specific 141 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 3: areas where I feel really really strong in and working 142 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 3: on ways to just like communicate super well with patients 143 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 3: about certain things. I think goes a long way, especially 144 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 3: because things are repetitive. So if you get excellent at 145 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 3: teaching people about their diabetes care, then that just compounds 146 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 3: itself and to become known as someone who's really really 147 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 3: good at that. On the other side, I feel like 148 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 3: I've focused more on like the delivery and refinement of 149 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 3: my ideas in the last year, including packaging them into courses. 150 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 3: I mean, I actually just posted a rant about how 151 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 3: I'm not making much progress on the writing side, but 152 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 3: I have to give myself credit for having done a 153 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 3: lot of important work that I think is a good 154 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 3: lead up to that piece, and so yeah, that's kind 155 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 3: of I think important, as well as doing activities that 156 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 3: lead to more growth, like reaching out to other podcasts, 157 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 3: which is something I try to do, promoting the newsletter, 158 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 3: and generally trying to make our content really fun and 159 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 3: awesome so that you know, we hope that people find it. 160 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 3: So sometimes the core activities can also be important. Yeah, 161 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 3: and share it that's always important too. Yeah, I was 162 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 3: thinking in this list for me as we were doing 163 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 3: this episode, definitely being on other podcasts and then sharing, 164 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 3: because then there's always somebody who's listening to that who 165 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 3: is never heard of you before, and inevitably somebody's like, oh, 166 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 3: well that sounds like something I'm interested in, and so 167 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 3: that kind of expands your influence, as does media appearances. 168 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 3: Sometimes writing my own media stuff, so writing articles for 169 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 3: major publications, or speaking gigs for certain places. If you 170 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 3: speak for a company, that's awesome, you're sharing news with them, 171 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 3: but it's somewhat of a limited thing because it's only 172 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 3: within that audience. Sometimes speaking at conferences where different people 173 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,319 Speaker 3: come in from different places has a little bit more 174 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 3: influence just because they all take that back to their 175 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 3: own companies and share it, and so it's got just a. 176 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,199 Speaker 2: Little bit more of a multiplier effect. So I'm always 177 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 2: keeping that in mind too. But as we were thinking 178 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 2: about this, I think about there's kind of a four 179 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 2: part framework here for how you can build career capital 180 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 2: and raise your influence if you are trying to work 181 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 2: somewhat limited out not limited but normal hours, normal sustainable hours. 182 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 2: So we're going to be talking about building your schedule 183 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 2: so you can prioritize space for the high profile stuff, 184 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 2: minimizing other work or being really efficient at it and 185 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 2: making life sustainable that way, regularly paying into your career 186 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 2: capital account kind of as a habit, and just being 187 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,439 Speaker 2: everybody's favorite person to work with, because that is how 188 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 2: you grow your influence over time. So, Sarah, since we're 189 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 2: starting with planning, you need to take this one over. 190 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, this was the first thing that came to my 191 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 3: mind when I was thinking about this, which is that 192 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 3: if you do not think about what's going to be 193 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,199 Speaker 3: the priorities of your week, review your schedule prior to 194 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 3: going into Monday, you're already behind. And I do think 195 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 3: that planning gives back the time you put into it, 196 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 3: like severalfold, and so it's always worth doing. It's worth 197 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 3: doing in the rest of life, it's worth doing for work. 198 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 3: So making sure that you have a ritual around your 199 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 3: planning for your work. Maybe it's a Friday afternoon, maybe 200 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 3: it's a different afternoon to Friday. Does it work where 201 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 3: you look at your calendar up ahead, you look for 202 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 3: the times that you're going to have like a little 203 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 3: bit more quote freedom or ability to do deeper work, 204 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 3: and you think about what are the priorities that you're 205 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 3: going to slot in those hours. If you do those things, 206 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 3: you'll also be able to put out fires, and as 207 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 3: a bonus, not only will you get more done, but 208 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 3: probably the whole thing will feel a little bit less 209 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 3: stressful as well. So if you don't have a ritual 210 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 3: like that in place, I highly encourage you to get 211 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 3: one set up. 212 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. 213 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And you can also try to figure out where 214 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 2: you will put this high profile stuff. And one of 215 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 2: the things we always wind up not doing is any 216 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 2: sort of speculative work or long term kind of thing, 217 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 2: And so think, well, maybe Monday morning is where I 218 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 2: do it, or if that doesn't work for you, maybe 219 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 2: it's like Tuesday afternoon is what I think of a 220 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 2: speculative time where I'm maybe not scheduling it quite so tightly, 221 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 2: but thinking of that space is when I am doing 222 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 2: that career boosting work. We also want to leave buffer 223 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 2: for unexpected emergencies, right, Sarah. 224 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 3: Yes, I feel like I learned from you like leave 225 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 3: that free slot because the truth is that as much 226 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 3: as we try to estimate what needs to happen, things 227 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 3: take longer than you think they will, and there will 228 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 3: always be some sort of quote unquote urgent, unexpected task 229 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 3: dumped into your lap. So we need to kind of 230 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 3: build in the idea that that's going to happen so 231 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:21,719 Speaker 3: that when it does happen, it doesn't derail all these 232 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 3: other plans you've already put into place. So having that 233 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 3: backup slot, I think that was one of the tranquility 234 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 3: by Tuesday tenants is super important, and that again applies 235 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 3: to your life, but your work calendar as well. 236 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think it's smart in general, but 237 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 2: in particular if you are trying to do career capital 238 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 2: boosting work or some long term project that is going 239 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 2: to raise your profile. What happens is people like I'm 240 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 2: going to get to it this week, and then what 241 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 2: happens this week, Well, your biggest client has an emergency 242 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 2: or one of your kids get sick, and you're like, well, 243 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 2: I couldn't get to it this week because this unexpected 244 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 2: thing happened. It's like, well, guess what, something unexpected is 245 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 2: going to happen every single week, which is why you 246 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 2: will never get around to writing that business plan or 247 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 2: submitting that article for publication, or making a video of 248 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 2: yourself that you can send into that conference to be 249 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 2: a speaker or whatever it is. Because something is always 250 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 2: going to come up, and since you don't have to 251 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 2: do the career profile boosting thing, you don't, so in 252 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 2: order to make sure that those things don't derail you, 253 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 2: you build in space for the emergency to happen. 254 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 3: And speaking in building in space, one other buffer to 255 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 3: think about is processing time after meetings if you can 256 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 3: help it, and you can't always. I know some company 257 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 3: cultures just kind of book you back to back, although 258 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 3: it seems like a lot of the larger companies are 259 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 3: starting to do like fifty minute meetings or twenty five 260 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 3: minute meetings to kind of help with this. But you 261 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 3: are going to need to take time to think about 262 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 3: what was just said, to write down any to dos, 263 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 3: to capture kind of the essence so you don't forget 264 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 3: about what happened and have to revisit it. So not 265 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 3: only do you need that unexpected spot buffer, but kind 266 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 3: of not booking things back to back as a practice 267 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 3: and assuming you'll need some processing time for each thing 268 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:12,719 Speaker 3: that you do is smart. And speaking of buffers, we're 269 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 3: going to take a quick break and we'll be right back. 270 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 2: Well, we are back talking about how to conquer the 271 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 2: world in forty hours a week, trying to figure out 272 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 2: how we can do career boosting work if we don't 273 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 2: wish to work excessive hours, if we want to have 274 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 2: a work life balance that is sustainable over the long term. 275 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 2: And so we talked about building a schedule that allows 276 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 2: you to have space for these longer term, speculative kind 277 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 2: of ventures. But one of the ways that we also 278 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 2: make space is to minimize the sort of work that 279 00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 2: is not necessarily career boosting. Profile raising may have to 280 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 2: get done, but it isn't necessarily your top priority. 281 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: So let's talk about meetings. 282 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 2: You said processing time after meetings, Sarah, But what can 283 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 2: we do to make every meeting be a little bit 284 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 2: less of a waste of time? 285 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 3: Well, our prior guest, Laura may Martin, talked about how 286 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 3: she doesn't go to any meeting without an agenda, and 287 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 3: maybe that might be extreme in your personal circumstance. 288 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 2: Did she ask you for an agenda before you interviewed her? 289 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 3: No? No, okay, oh no, she didn't. That must be 290 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 3: an exception. Probably her PR firm was like, no one's 291 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 3: going to give you an agenda, so just be. 292 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: On the one up for you so you have one. 293 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 3: I mean, this is a very high profile podcast and 294 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 3: a coveted slot, so you know she wouldn't want to 295 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 3: do something to put that in jeopardy. 296 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 2: Okay, But for your average run of the mill meeting, 297 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 2: we need an agenda. 298 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 3: Yes, okay, So I mean if there's not specifically an agenda, 299 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 3: you're not demanding an agenda. Still, you can think through 300 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 3: what is the point of meeting? What do you want 301 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 3: to get out of this meeting, because that can help 302 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 3: you do a couple of things. It can help you 303 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 3: prepare to make the time that you're spending with a 304 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 3: person more useful. It might even help you tell them 305 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 3: what to prepare if you realize that the roadblock is 306 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 3: going to be on their side. Perhaps you have done 307 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 3: this in your review of the week prior and are like, ooh, 308 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 3: I'm meeting with the person i'm supervising, but I don't 309 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 3: know what they've done. So you tell them submit me 310 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 3: a paragraph like before the meeting so we have something 311 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 3: to chat about, and really just like make sure you 312 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 3: actually have to go to said meeting, because sometimes if 313 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 3: you think through the meeting and what the purpose is, 314 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 3: and you really can't come up with one, And it's 315 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 3: just like about FaceTime. You know, there's probably enough other 316 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 3: meetings that you have FaceTime. And again this may vary 317 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 3: depending on what the culture is of where you are. 318 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 3: But if there is any way there is some meeting 319 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 3: that you find may not be the most important, you 320 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 3: could perhaps point out the fifteen other meetings on your 321 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 3: calendar that week and maybe you could just get the 322 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 3: notes for that one. So really understanding what the purpose 323 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 3: the meeting is for can do can do a lot 324 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 3: for you, especially in advance. You don't want to be 325 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 3: having these thoughts three minutes before the meeting starts. 326 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: Absolutely. 327 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 2: Another idea is, you know, sometimes we waste a lot 328 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 2: of time because we are waiting for other things from 329 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 2: other people and we can't sort of start on anything else, 330 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 2: and we're constantly tracking things down. So you have a 331 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 2: system as well, Sarah, for looping back on stuff. 332 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 3: Yes, it's funny, that's a funny I put the phrase 333 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 3: in there. But then I'm also like, you know, when 334 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 3: you get a email from someone like two days after 335 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 3: they sent you an email that you like didn't feel 336 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 3: like responding to, and they're like looping them back and 337 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 3: you're like, oh my god. 338 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: Momping this up to the top of your inbox. 339 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 3: That's just like more when it's like an unsolicited thing. 340 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 3: But that's not really what we're talking about here. Looping 341 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 3: back to me means like something's on the back burner 342 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 3: and I don't want to forget about it, but I 343 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 3: don't want it to like bother me, and I also 344 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 3: don't want to fail to deal with it all together. 345 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 3: So making sure you have some kind of reliable place 346 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 3: to put things that you need to check back on 347 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 3: and a ritual that includes checking that folder or place 348 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 3: those two things will allow you to kind of put 349 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 3: them out of your mind but also not missing. So 350 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 3: my practice is to have I actually don't have this 351 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 3: in my personal email, I haven't needed it, But in 352 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 3: my work like outlook email, like at clinical work, there's 353 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 3: a waiting on folder where if there's something that's just 354 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 3: like cooking, like I've asked for something I'm waiting for 355 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 3: a response, I just put it in there, and every 356 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 3: single week when I do kind of like my clean 357 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 3: out and review process, I just check and glance and 358 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 3: see what's in there, and if there's anything I need 359 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 3: to send a bump up email about although I never ever. 360 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,719 Speaker 1: Just pinging you, Sarah. 361 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:37,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, our. 362 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 2: Friend Laura May Martin will tell us though, I mean, 363 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 2: this is in her book. The problem is if you 364 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 2: don't answer the email, you're going to get something else. 365 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 2: It's going to be a second email or third email, 366 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 2: it's going to be an instant chat, or somebody's going 367 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 2: to add a calend, you know, meeting to your calendar 368 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 2: to get an answer. So even if you can't answer, 369 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 2: you're better off at least responding and saying, you know, 370 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 2: I'll be working on this on Tuesday. 371 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 1: I'll get back to you on Wednesday, and then people 372 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: feel heard. 373 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 2: Another way to sort of work more sustainable hours is 374 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 2: to make sure you're only working on a certain number 375 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 2: of things at once, and we learn this from our 376 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 2: conversation with Cal Newport on slow productivity. But the way 377 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 2: I like to think of it is, actually, and we're 378 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 2: recording this shortly after tax day, is that every project 379 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 2: you were doing has some sort of administrative tax associated 380 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 2: with it. And so the issue is if you have 381 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 2: a ton of projects going on at once, each one 382 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 2: of those is exacting its own administrative tax, and that 383 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 2: can wind up adding up to a significant number of hours, 384 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 2: Whereas if you limit the number of projects you take 385 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 2: on at any one point, you have fewer hours devoted 386 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 2: to the administrative tax, and the amount you're working is 387 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 2: still the same. Like, if you're working on five projects 388 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 2: and each has two hours of tax a week, that's 389 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 2: ten hours of tax. If you're working on three at once, 390 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 2: you still have those extra hours that you would have 391 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 2: been devoting to the other two, but you only have 392 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 2: six hours of administration. And so ideally you're getting through 393 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 2: those three quicker, if at all possible, because you're devoting 394 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 2: more time to it at the moment, and then when 395 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 2: you're done with each one, you can add another project, 396 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,439 Speaker 2: but you're still limiting that total administrative tax time. So 397 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 2: that's one way you can sort of make life feel sustainable. 398 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 2: And then Sarah is a big fan of vacation. 399 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know, this isn't in the realm of minimizing, 400 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 3: but this is in the realm of sustainability. And this 401 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 3: isn't necessarily going to apply to someone who is only entrepreneurial, 402 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 3: as Laura will discuss, But if you work for anyone 403 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 3: else and you are offered vacation time. You should take it, 404 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 3: enjoy it, plant look forward to it. It is going 405 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:47,919 Speaker 3: to create some kind of long jam work wise, but 406 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 3: for most people, if you don't take it, your odds 407 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 3: of getting burned out and just kind of tired of 408 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 3: what you're doing are so much higher. And it really 409 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 3: is included as a benefit in many many jobs. I'm 410 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 3: actually a not a huge fan of these new unlimited 411 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 3: vacation situations because I feel like that's a mind game, 412 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 3: and often people are then afraid to take it because 413 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 3: if you have unlimited vacation, like what has really owed 414 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 3: to you, But if you have like specific amounts of 415 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 3: vacation that you can take, I hope everyone listened to 416 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 3: This is like thinking about how to use that and 417 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 3: use it well. Some of it for family, some of 418 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 3: it for yourself, some of it for fun. You need 419 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 3: some reflective rest. 420 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 2: Time, absolutely, So that's about making life sustainable and minimizing 421 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 2: the work that is not the highest profile things you 422 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 2: are doing. 423 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: We also want to make. 424 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 2: It a habit to regularly pay into your career capital account. 425 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 2: And obviously, when you think about a bank account, it's 426 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 2: like money that is built up over time that you 427 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 2: can draw upon if you need it right. So a 428 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 2: lot of that is about the connections you have in life, 429 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 2: so building genuine work relationships. So Sarah, what do you 430 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 2: did the notes for that? So what do you mean 431 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 2: by building genuine work relationships as part of career capital? 432 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 3: Taking time to get to know your colleagues, maintaining relationships 433 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 3: from older positions that you've had, connecting over non work 434 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 3: topics as well as work topics. I'm not suggesting to 435 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,640 Speaker 3: be best friends with every single person in your office, 436 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 3: but just making a point to getting to know people. 437 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 3: If you noticed your front desk person was away for 438 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 3: a week, asked them where they went, Asked them if 439 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:30,880 Speaker 3: they enjoyed it, Like, ask them if they went to Germany, 440 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 3: Like what do they do there? Like actually getting to 441 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 3: know the other humans you're working with just makes it 442 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 3: so much more fun and at the same time, like 443 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,400 Speaker 3: sometimes it can lead to opportunities you might not expect. 444 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 3: And one practice I've talked about before in this podcast 445 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 3: is I really try to make Friday a social lunch day. 446 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 3: It is challenging. I like struck out last week. I 447 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 3: was like, actually, no, I was going to strike out, 448 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 3: and then at the last the eleventh hour someone texting 449 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 3: me and was like I can go, and I was like, perfect, 450 00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 3: I'll meet you, and then another person actually ended up coming. 451 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 3: So it was great and it doesn't have to be long. 452 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 3: I mean we probably met for like twenty five minutes 453 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 3: because both of us had to run and see afternoon patients. 454 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 3: But still we also then saw some other doctors in 455 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 3: a different specialty and like talk to them. So like 456 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 3: having that camaraderie is super helpful and can pay off 457 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 3: in more ways than one. 458 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, because a lot of opportunities do come through other people, right, 459 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,439 Speaker 2: And even in a huge corporation where you'd think like 460 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 2: they're going to choose people who are best for a job, 461 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:31,959 Speaker 2: they're going to choose people to staff on this project 462 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 2: that they knew who has expertise in it, Like, no, 463 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 2: they do not. They are staffing the person that the 464 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 2: project manager knows and has worked within the past. And 465 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 2: if they're like, oh, shoot, now we need somebody who's 466 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 2: an expert in this, what do they do? That person 467 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 2: asks the people they've worked with on the past six projects, like, hey, 468 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 2: who should we ask to do this? 469 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: Who do they suggest? 470 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 2: The person they know and have been hanging out with 471 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 2: I mean, it is amazing how human it still is, 472 00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 2: even in very huge places. But with that in mind, 473 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 2: you want to be the person that they are thinking about. 474 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 2: If it's something high profile, something that you know would 475 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 2: be building a skill set, So getting to know your colleagues, 476 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 2: getting to know people who are external because obviously you 477 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 2: may not work for that same place forever, and if 478 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 2: you do decide at some point that you would like 479 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 2: to go somewhere else, it is so much better to 480 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 2: have a friend at XYZ Corporation who's like, hey, you 481 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 2: should totally check out the resume from this person I 482 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 2: know and whose work I respect. Like you will almost 483 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 2: automatically at least get an interview if somebody out of 484 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 2: company has forwarded a resume. 485 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: That's just the way most companies work. 486 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 2: So worth keeping in mind if you're ever going to 487 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 2: be job hunting in your life. 488 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: And I would also. 489 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 2: Suggest proactively reaching out to people. One of our former guests, 490 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 2: Molly Beck, wrote a book many years ago called reach Out, 491 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 2: which is about her own method which every day she 492 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,919 Speaker 2: reaches out to someone, and you know, it doesn't have 493 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 2: to be elaborate. It's maybe somebody that you knew in 494 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 2: the past and want to reconnect with somebody you met recently, 495 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 2: just a close colleague or friend that you've been thinking 496 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 2: of and you know, wanted to share something with, or 497 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 2: a total blind like I'm just going to reach out 498 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 2: to this person in the universe because they did something 499 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 2: and I want to. And I was the target of 500 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 2: a Molly Beck reach out back in twenty thirteen, I believe, 501 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 2: and we've kept in touch ever since. So I just 502 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 2: suggest viewing the universe as a wonderful place of possibilities 503 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 2: of people, and there's no reason not to reach out. 504 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 2: You might not hear back from people. I'm sure she's 505 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 2: sent many that have resulted in crickets, but she does 506 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 2: enough of it that she's built a fantastic network by 507 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:47,439 Speaker 2: doing that. 508 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 3: You also wrote go to stuff, go to stuff. Maybe 509 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 3: I love that. 510 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:58,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, because okay, here is the thought here. 511 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 2: I think a lot of people, if they feel very 512 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 2: busy in their personal lives, they become very focused on doing. 513 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: The stuff of their job. 514 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 3: Right. 515 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 2: It's like, well, I can't go to the happy hour 516 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 2: because I have to see my kids after work. Well, okay, 517 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 2: we may all want to see our kids after work, 518 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 2: but you're probably already doing that five days a week, 519 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 2: maybe once every two weeks. You don't go immediately home, 520 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 2: you know, you do something else and you're still with 521 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 2: your kids immediately after work nine out of ten days. 522 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 2: But you are at least showing that you are willing 523 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 2: to go to things and build sort of relationships outside 524 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 2: of working hours. So, whether that is industry events, if 525 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 2: there's a happy hour with a group of people you 526 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 2: work with, if it is a speaker on a topic 527 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 2: that is of relevance to your industry that's happening in 528 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 2: your town, it might be worth going to. That might 529 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 2: be worth going to a conference. Maybe you pick two 530 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 2: or three a year that are worth putting the effort 531 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 2: into traveling too. But just showing your face is going 532 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 2: to go a long way. You don't have to do 533 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 2: it every night. Nobody does it every night. Like this 534 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 2: is often viewed as I can either or situation like 535 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 2: either I go out with colleagues or I go home 536 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 2: with and see my family, and I can't do both 537 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 2: and I'd be a terrible parent if I didn't see 538 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 2: my family, so ergo, I can't go out. And it's like, well, okay, 539 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 2: only if you're viewing it one specific night, But people 540 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 2: have listened to this podcast long enough no to think 541 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 2: one hundred and sixty eight hours, not twenty four. So 542 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,360 Speaker 2: don't view the one night where thing is in conflict 543 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 2: as the only time there is. There's a lot of 544 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 2: other times where things aren't in conflict, So you can 545 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,199 Speaker 2: be the kind of person who does both agree. So 546 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 2: on that note, we'll take another ad break and we'll 547 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 2: be back with a little bit more on how to 548 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 2: build career capital. 549 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: Well, we are back talking about how to. 550 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 2: Conquer the world in forty hours a week, and one 551 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 2: way that we can continue to build our career capital 552 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 2: is to become better at what we do. I mean, 553 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 2: some of this is just happens over time. I mean, 554 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 2: I'm sure that Sarah, your initial sharing how to care 555 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 2: for diabetes on like day one of you working as 556 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 2: a physician was probably a little bit more awkward than 557 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 2: now many years in, but you've also actively taken steps 558 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 2: to improve at what you were doing. 559 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think a lot 560 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 3: of that comes from kind of learning by doing, but 561 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 3: some of it may come from asking for feedback from 562 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 3: whoever your audience is. Some of it comes from interacting 563 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 3: with other professionals and asking how they do and kind 564 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 3: of taking the best snippets of what you hear, like, Oh, 565 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 3: that's a really good analogy. I'll try to use that. 566 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 3: Some of it might be reading industry stuff. I learn 567 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 3: a ton of conferences, both the academic stuff presented, but 568 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 3: then just as much value from like, oh, how do 569 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 3: you guys do this over there? As I just said, So, yeah, 570 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,360 Speaker 3: I think it's really important and it makes your job 571 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,719 Speaker 3: so much more fun. I find that when I don't 572 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 3: do those things, I don't know, it just feels a 573 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 3: little bit more stagnant. So I think the sustainability piece 574 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 3: also links directly with the improvement piece, because finding ways 575 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 3: in which to grow in our careers makes those careers 576 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 3: more rewarding, keeps our brains active, and it's probably going 577 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 3: to lead to more opportunities and success. So there's really 578 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 3: no reason to decide that at some point that you're 579 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 3: sort of done with improvement or learning. 580 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, if you are feeling that maybe it's time 581 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 2: to make a change in something else, I mean, unless 582 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 2: you know there are reasons people don't like you're three 583 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 2: years away from retirement in someplace with a great pension. 584 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: I get it. I totally get it. 585 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 2: But if that's not the case, you might wonder what 586 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 2: there is in life that you might want to change 587 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 2: in a way that you can keep learning and growing 588 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 2: and don't just feel like you are punching in the clock. 589 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 3: Lauren and I had a little well we kind of 590 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 3: disagreed on one. Okay, Harvy out to this, which is 591 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 3: that I wrote that I will say in the young 592 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 3: baby years, like the pumping years, the kind of not 593 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 3: getting sleep years, which isn't that much time in the 594 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 3: grand scheme of things, even if you have five kids, 595 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 3: that's like five years if you pumped a year with 596 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 3: each of them out of a fairly long career. That 597 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 3: is the one time I felt like stagnation was the 598 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 3: only option. I mean, I don't mean that, and obviously 599 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 3: there's still subtle things you can do, but for me, 600 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 3: that was a time I felt like it was actually 601 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 3: helpful to give myself permission to be like, get your 602 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 3: notes done, see your patients, do what you need to 603 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 3: take care of them, and like the extras can wait 604 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 3: until you're not chained to this thing because you have 605 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 3: to then also get home to feed the baby who 606 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 3: wants you. Like it was a brief period of time. 607 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 3: It wasn't that much fun. I don't think I lost 608 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 3: that much. But if that happens to be you or 609 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 3: Snary right now, I kind of give you permission to coast. 610 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 3: But maybe Laura doesn't. 611 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 2: Well I'll point out, I mean, maybe you were coasting 612 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 2: in job number one. But we started this podcast when 613 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 2: you were five months pregnant with Genevieve, and we built 614 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 2: it for the first year while you were doing it 615 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 2: around feeding her whatever. So I mean I would maybe 616 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 2: argue with even your retelling of the history of events here. 617 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: And I would also say that again. 618 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 2: If you are in a limited hour situation because you 619 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 2: are dealing with a nursing schedule or you know, very 620 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 2: young baby or something like that, is maybe you want 621 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 2: to spend more of your time of your limited time 622 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 2: on the big payoff stuff versus all the basic stuff 623 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 2: of your job. So maybe this is a great opportunity 624 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 2: when you're coming back from eternity leave. Somebody else has 625 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 2: been covering that boring staff meeting that you've been running 626 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 2: since time memorial, Like, huh, maybe my deputy could keep 627 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 2: doing that while I spend that hour. 628 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: I would have been doing that reaching. 629 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 2: Out to people outside my company and showing them the 630 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 2: great work I've done on something you know that's not 631 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 2: a trade secret, but I can my profile that way, 632 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 2: So I would just you know, you might want to 633 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 2: rebalance it that way. 634 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 3: Awesome. I think depends maybe on your industry, your flexibility, 635 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 3: and what the deliverables look like. But I'm glad to 636 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 3: know I didn't seem like I was slacking on the podcast. 637 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: No, exactly. 638 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 2: And finally, the last part of this is being everyone's 639 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 2: favorite person to work with. And you say, well, what 640 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 2: does this have to do with building career capital? What 641 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 2: does this have to do with raising your profile? And 642 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 2: it's getting back to the idea of building those work relationships. 643 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 2: But people want to work with people that it is 644 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 2: pleasant to work with, Like this increases your influence in 645 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 2: so many ways because people are like, if they have 646 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 2: a choice, they want to do pleasant things. And if 647 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 2: working with you is a pleasant experience, then the number 648 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 2: of people who want to work with you rises, and 649 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 2: as such, your ability to command what you wish within 650 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 2: the market of your corporation, within the free market as 651 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 2: a consultant rises the more demand there is for you. 652 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 2: So how do you become everyone's favorite person to work with. Well, 653 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 2: partly it's about making sure that everything you touch has 654 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 2: done extremely well and efficiently. I mean Sarah's talked about 655 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 2: this with some of her medical processes, right. 656 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 3: Yes, like become you know, emptying your inbox, like making 657 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 3: sure not to let loose ends go undone. But also 658 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 3: on the process side of things, if you see something 659 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 3: that is happening again and again that feels sort of 660 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 3: like it's not running smoothly, like it sort of gums 661 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 3: up the works every time, then this is something to 662 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 3: like almost like get into that sort of lean methodology 663 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 3: six sigma, Like what can we do to make this 664 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 3: just like smooth sailing? Like work as a team, figure 665 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 3: out a process, because when you solve those kinds of problems, 666 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 3: people notice and it makes your life a million times easier. 667 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 3: I feel like, you know, we're talking about diabetes a 668 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 3: lot today, but like that is something I won't take 669 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 3: cared of For this. It wasn't really me, but our 670 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 3: group and certain people in our group have taken great 671 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 3: pains to make so smooth because we have new diagnoses 672 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 3: multiple times a week, and if every single time that 673 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 3: was like, oh, what do we do with this? It 674 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 3: would be a nightmare, and instead I feel like it's 675 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 3: just like we everyone it's a choreographed like beautiful dance. 676 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 3: I don't know, like people know what their role is, 677 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 3: we know what to do, we have a process. But 678 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 3: it amazes me that I've been in places or situations 679 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 3: where it seems like, Okay, surely this has to come 680 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 3: up in time and time. Again, I don't have a 681 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 3: great example on the tip of my tongue, but like, 682 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 3: surely I'm not the first person who have asked for 683 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 3: XYZ and it seems like it was. So find those 684 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 3: things in your work and deal with them. 685 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: And then be unfailingly reliable. 686 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 2: Like if you say you were going to do something, 687 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 2: do it by the time you said you would do 688 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 2: it in the format that you said it would be done. Now, 689 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 2: of course we all understand that there are things that 690 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 2: come up that you can't but if that is going 691 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 2: to happen, letting people know that as soon as possible 692 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 2: and coming up with a way that you can help 693 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 2: solve that problem for whoever it is going to inconvenience 694 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 2: goes a long way toward making you still be reliable 695 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 2: even if the original deliverable wasn't doable, and then part 696 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 2: of that is only taking on what you can do. 697 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 2: But that's an entirely different topic. 698 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 3: And the hope this goes off we're full circle now 699 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,320 Speaker 3: because this all goes back to planning, because that planning 700 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 3: session where you figure things out, you know what you 701 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 3: have on your plate, is going to be the way 702 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 3: in which you're able to accomplish this reliability. 703 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,880 Speaker 2: Absolutely. Well, we'll pivot now to our Q and A here. 704 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 2: So this is from a person who works as a 705 00:34:53,880 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 2: pharmacist and she is potentially adding a different business to 706 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 2: her what she's doing. She's particularly opening something new and 707 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 2: she also wants to get some new certifications. But because 708 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,800 Speaker 2: she's going to be doing something new, she doesn't necessarily 709 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 2: want all her colleagues to know about it. Now, there 710 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 2: is downtime at the pharmacy. There turns out to be 711 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 2: times when people are not lined up to get their 712 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 2: expertise on things, and so she would like to use 713 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 2: that time for advancing her career. However, sometimes her colleagues, 714 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 2: when there's not a lot going on, will just come 715 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 2: over and talk, hang out, shoot the breeze, whatever people 716 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,839 Speaker 2: do when they're bored at work. So she's saying, how 717 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,440 Speaker 2: can I politely get people to stop doing that without 718 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 2: calling attention to the fact that I am kind of 719 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 2: setting myself up to do something big and new during 720 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 2: this downtime. 721 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,320 Speaker 1: So, Sarah, what do you think this can be challenging? 722 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,359 Speaker 3: I mean, my answer wouldn't be to cut off that 723 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 3: person or people entirely, because you want to build those relationships. 724 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 3: And I think if you become the one that always 725 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 3: is like cold shoulder, but I think you could kind 726 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 3: of like a balance, or maybe you make light of 727 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 3: it and be like, Okay, I love that gossip time, 728 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 3: but like, I really have to get XYZ done. You 729 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,399 Speaker 3: can be vague about it. I also think headphones could 730 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,719 Speaker 3: be really strategically employed here because if it looks like 731 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,320 Speaker 3: you're listening to something could be like a meeting, a podcast, whatever, 732 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,360 Speaker 3: then people might take the hint. It doesn't have to 733 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,880 Speaker 3: mean you have anything going on the headphones, but maybe 734 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 3: some white noise would be helpful. 735 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think she could legitimately say, yeah, you know, 736 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 2: I'd like to spend a little time studying tonight, so 737 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 2: I'm just gonna be over here doing that. If you 738 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 2: guys need me, And I mean, if they ask you 739 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 2: what you're studying for again, pharmacy, like there's new stuff 740 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 2: coming out all the time, or you could be studying 741 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 2: for an advanced certification, where like nobody really would need 742 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 2: to question that, like why on earth do you need that. 743 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 2: It's like, well, because I'm a pharmacist, and you know 744 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 2: I need to be on top of my field to 745 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 2: better serve the people we work with. So I mean, 746 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 2: that's that's a pretty obvious thing. So I don't think 747 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 2: you need to be too specific about it. I mean, 748 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 2: especially if you're studying electronically, like I would be if 749 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,280 Speaker 2: there's a textbook that's related to something that has nothing 750 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 2: to do with what you guys currently do. 751 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: But I don't think that's the case. 752 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 2: I think you're probably on an iPad and so nobody 753 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,359 Speaker 2: knows what you're doing. One way you can sort of 754 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,400 Speaker 2: proactively deal with the fact that people do want to 755 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 2: chat is if you're seeing things are winding down, like 756 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:21,879 Speaker 2: go check in with anyone you know, say like, hey, 757 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 2: how's it going, and just want to chat what's up? 758 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 2: Like budget yourself, Like five to ten minutes for each 759 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 2: person that would normally want to talk with you get 760 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 2: that little short conversation over with it, then go do 761 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 2: your thing. Be like oh that's great, Yeah, okay, I'm 762 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 2: still going to go study now. You know, if you 763 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 2: guys need me, let me know. And that way, people 764 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 2: feel like you asked about their weekend on Monday, you 765 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 2: asked on Thursday and Friday what they're going to do 766 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 2: on the weekend, Like you had that little small talk conversation, 767 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 2: but you're still getting time for your thing. 768 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:56,800 Speaker 3: Love it well, love of the week. On this career episode, 769 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 3: I'm going to go on brand on theme here. I 770 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,920 Speaker 3: love paid time off. I love it. I love having 771 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:05,920 Speaker 3: a specific amount of it. I mean, I guess I 772 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 3: wouldn't love that if it was like three days a year, 773 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,760 Speaker 3: that I'd be very resentful. Then I have a reasonable 774 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,240 Speaker 3: amount of it. I like allocating it, I like thinking 775 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,360 Speaker 3: about it, and I like that it kind of comes 776 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 3: as a benefit of my job. 777 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I have never had PTO. 778 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 2: I was thinking back of, like, have I had any 779 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 2: job where I was like accruing paid time off? I 780 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 2: don't believe I was, because you know, I did my 781 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 2: like service jobs in high school and college. 782 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 1: I was a part time worker. 783 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,839 Speaker 2: So you usually aren't necessarily fully accruing time with that, 784 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 2: and you know, then I did an internship where I 785 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,239 Speaker 2: wasn't I was paid, but I wasn't like getting paid 786 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 2: time off or anything. It's not like part of the 787 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,400 Speaker 2: job with that. And then I went and worked for 788 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 2: myself and well, Vandercam Inc. Is a wonderful place to 789 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:54,200 Speaker 2: work in many ways, or paid time off policies somewhat 790 00:38:54,200 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 2: to stingy. So yeah, no, I've never had that. But 791 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,840 Speaker 2: obviously I take tons of vacation. I'm generally just doing 792 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,799 Speaker 2: things like checking in on email for thirty minutes in 793 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,320 Speaker 2: the morning two or three times when I'm off, and 794 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 2: then I can take however much time I want, as 795 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 2: long as I meet my deliverable. 796 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 1: So that is an. 797 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 2: Upside, sometimes a downside, but mostly an upside of self employment. 798 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 2: So I guess I would say my love of the week, 799 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 2: since it can't be PTO, is having been in the 800 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:35,279 Speaker 2: same business for a long long time. So recently, for 801 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 2: various reasons, I've been meeting with a lot of people 802 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:41,839 Speaker 2: in the publishing world at lots of different houses, and 803 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,279 Speaker 2: the upside is I know somebody at every single one 804 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 2: of them. You know, I'm having meetings with teams. It's 805 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 2: always I know somebody from somewhere in it that you know, 806 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,840 Speaker 2: they worked at somewhere I published with in the past, 807 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:58,399 Speaker 2: or they were at a magazine that I was familiar with, 808 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 2: or I interviewed them as an expert or on something. 809 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 3: You know. 810 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 2: It's just there's always someone and that was kind of 811 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,719 Speaker 2: fun to see. So an upside of having you know, 812 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:10,680 Speaker 2: I don't think of myself as a great networker, but 813 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,239 Speaker 2: just from the sheer fact of being in something for decades, 814 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 2: you meet people, and sometimes the people who you met 815 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,840 Speaker 2: who are so awesome, like early in your career, wind 816 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,960 Speaker 2: up in places of influence and power, and that's really 817 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 2: really cool to see. So this has been best of 818 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 2: both worlds. We've been talking about how to conquer the 819 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:35,120 Speaker 2: world in forty hours a week, make space for career building, 820 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,239 Speaker 2: career capital building work even if you don't want to 821 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,759 Speaker 2: work around the clock, because guess what, nobody really works 822 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 2: around the clock. We will be back next week with 823 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 2: more on making work and life fit together. 824 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the 825 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:54,239 Speaker 3: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, 826 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 3: and you. 827 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 2: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. 828 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,840 Speaker 1: This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. 829 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,799 Speaker 2: Please join us next time for more on making work 830 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 2: and life work together.