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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production

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Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Unboss Creative. I'm Bridget Todd

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Speaker 1: and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.

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Speaker 1: So I hope everybody is having a fantastic holiday season,

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Speaker 1: and I'm actually popping in from my holiday break to

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Speaker 1: let y'all know that Christmas came a little bit late

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Speaker 1: this year in the form of the news that misogynistic

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Speaker 1: grifter Andrew Tate and his brother were detained in connection

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Speaker 1: with human trafficking in Romania. And it could not have

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Speaker 1: happened in a more delicious way, So let's get into it.

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Speaker 1: This week, Andrew Tate tweeted a photo just dripping with insecurity,

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Speaker 1: where he was showing off his cars and for some reason,

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Speaker 1: probably crippling self esteem issues and a need for negative

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Speaker 1: attention and validation, he tagged nineteen year old climate activist

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Speaker 1: Greta Thunberg saying, please provide your email address so I

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Speaker 1: can send a complete list of my car collection and

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Speaker 1: their respective enormous emissions. Greta replied, yes, please do enlighten me.

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Speaker 1: You can reach me at small Dick Energy at Ghetta

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Speaker 1: life dot com. And everyone on the internet just loved it,

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Speaker 1: and Tate was like, I don't care, I'm not bothered,

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Speaker 1: and the show just how not bothered he was. He

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Speaker 1: made a whole video response of him sitting at a

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Speaker 1: table smoking his trademark cigar next to an empty box

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Speaker 1: of pizza. Now it's important to know that Tate has

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Speaker 1: been under investigation in connection to a human trafficking ring

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Speaker 1: for some time. On the very gross men's rights podcast

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Speaker 1: Fresh and Fit, Kate explained how he made lots of

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Speaker 1: money by soliciting women to make adult content, saying I

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Speaker 1: found this little webcam thing and thought this might be

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Speaker 1: some money. We started the webcam business from my apartment

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Speaker 1: and it just grew and grew. At one point I

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Speaker 1: had seventy five women working for me in four locations

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Speaker 1: and I was doing six dred thousand dollars a month.

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Speaker 1: Now it's not totally clear if this is the same

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Speaker 1: business that led to his detainment, but Romanian prosecutor said

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Speaker 1: that four people quote appear to have created an organized

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Speaker 1: crime group with the purpose of recruiting, housing, and exploiting

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Speaker 1: women by forcing them to create pornographic content. So basically

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Speaker 1: the allegations are that he was trafficking women and forcing

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Speaker 1: them to do online sex work and just pocketing the money.

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Speaker 1: CNN reports. The authorities alleged that two of the suspects

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Speaker 1: misled the victims quote into believing that they intended to

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Speaker 1: enter into a marriage cohabitation relationship while transporting victims to

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Speaker 1: Romania and later sexually exploiting them with physical violence and coercion,

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Speaker 1: which are very very serious allegations. Now compare that to

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Speaker 1: what Andrew Tate wrote on his own website, an archived

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Speaker 1: version of which was uncovered by PhD student Christa peters

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Speaker 1: hawking his scammy pickup artist coaching business, where he says,

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Speaker 1: why am I an expert on all male female interactions?

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Speaker 1: I've been running a webcam studio for nearly a decade.

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Speaker 1: I've had over seventy girls work for me, and my

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Speaker 1: business model is different than of webcam studio owners. Over

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Speaker 1: fifty of my employees were actually my girlfriend at the time,

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Speaker 1: and of all my girlfriends, none were in the adult

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Speaker 1: entertainment industry before they met me. Literally, that was my job.

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Speaker 1: My job was to meet a girl, go on a

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Speaker 1: few days, sleep with her, test if she's quality, and

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Speaker 1: get her to fall in love with me where she

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Speaker 1: would do anything I say, then get her out of

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Speaker 1: webcam so that we could become rich together. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it does kind of sound like what the Romanian officials

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Speaker 1: have alleged he was involved with to me. And Tate

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Speaker 1: has been pretty open about the fact that the reason

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Speaker 1: that he lives in Romania in the first place is

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Speaker 1: because that he figured the Romanians would be less likely

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Speaker 1: to charge him for sex crimes. Now, a good rule

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Speaker 1: of thumb for anybody is that if you're on the lamb,

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Speaker 1: especially from a government, it's probably a good idea to

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Speaker 1: keep a low digital profile, Like I probably would not

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Speaker 1: be podcasting if I were wanted by the state. But

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Speaker 1: Andrew Tate does things differently, and soon after he sent

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Speaker 1: his video response to Greta Thunberg, his villa was rated

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Speaker 1: and he was detained by authorities in Romania. Police served

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Speaker 1: search warrants at five homes and attained four suspects as

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Speaker 1: part of the investigation into organized human trafficking and rape. Now,

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Speaker 1: many speculated that it was that pizza box visible in

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Speaker 1: his video response to Greta Thunberg that tipped off authorities

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Speaker 1: to his whereabouts, which, holy crap, the delicious nous I know,

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Speaker 1: I know, but I'm sorry to say that. According to CNN,

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Speaker 1: Romanian authorities just said that it was social media activity

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Speaker 1: that led to his detainment, not really the pizza box specifically,

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Speaker 1: But you know what, I don't care. It's Christmas and

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna have this one. You might remember that Tate

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Speaker 1: was banned from pretty much every social media platform this

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Speaker 1: past summer, but when Elon Musk took over at Twitter,

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Speaker 1: he quickly let Andrew Tate back on. Listen. I know

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Speaker 1: that Andrew Tate a grown ass man, and his insatiable

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Speaker 1: need to use social media to dunk on a teenager

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Speaker 1: leading to his downfall is pretty funny, but we are

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Speaker 1: definitely talking about very serious, dangerous allegations. You know, Andrew

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Speaker 1: Tate was allegedly taking part in very serious crimes against

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Speaker 1: women while also being given a huge platform on social

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Speaker 1: media and podcasts to show off all the cars and

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Speaker 1: money that he made from allegedly harming women, while being

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Speaker 1: able to influence men and boys to want to be

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Speaker 1: just like him. Who Is Andrew Tate was the most

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Speaker 1: search sentence starting with who is on Google this year,

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Speaker 1: and right now there are scores of young men and

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Speaker 1: boys defending him. It's scary. And to get into why

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Speaker 1: that is, let's revisit the conversation that we had about

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Speaker 1: Andrew Tate when he was first de platformed back in August.

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Speaker 1: Social media platforms like TikTok and Facebook have finally banned violent,

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Speaker 1: misogynistic scam influencer Andrew Tate, and honestly, it's should have

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Speaker 1: happened sooner. Now. If you don't know who Andrew Tate is,

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Speaker 1: don't worry. He went from being relatively obscured to seemingly

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Speaker 1: being everywhere on social media within a few months. Videos

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Speaker 1: featuring his name as a hashtag have been viewed over

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Speaker 1: thirteen billion times, and before it was shut down, his

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Speaker 1: TikTok account had over eleven billion views. He had four

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Speaker 1: million Twitter followers, four point seven million Instagram followers, almost

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Speaker 1: eight hundred thousand YouTube subscribers, and millions and millions of

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Speaker 1: clicks and shares across Facebook. So who is Andrew Tate? Well,

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Speaker 1: Andrew Tate is kind of like Joe Rogan on steroids.

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Speaker 1: Just like Rogan, at one time, Andrew Tate was a

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Speaker 1: professional martial artist, and also, like Rogan, Andrew Tate did

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Speaker 1: a stint in reality television. Tate was on Big Brother

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Speaker 1: in TWI, where he was known for being really respectful

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Speaker 1: and thoughtful of others. Oh wait, sorry, just kidding. It

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Speaker 1: says here he was actually known for homophobia and violence

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Speaker 1: against women after a video surface where he was a

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Speaker 1: beating a woman with a belt while screaming at her quote,

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Speaker 1: if you ever message another guy, whether we're together or not,

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Speaker 1: you're fucking dead. Tate was kicked off Big Brother after

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Speaker 1: only being on the show for six days. Andrew Tate's

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Speaker 1: podcast is called take Speech, and it's basically exactly what

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Speaker 1: you think it is. He's part of what we call

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Speaker 1: the Man of Sphere, a loosely connected ecosystem of online

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Speaker 1: websites and influencers that traffic in misogyny and racism on

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Speaker 1: places like four Chan and Reddit. If you listen to

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Speaker 1: our episode with Laura Bates, a researcher and writer who

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Speaker 1: went undercover in the Man of Sphere to research her

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Speaker 1: book Men Who Hate Women, then you know exactly what

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about. So Andrew Tate's whole thing is these

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Speaker 1: clips of him speaking on his podcast wearing sunglasses and

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Speaker 1: doors you know, like you do, and smoking a cigar

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Speaker 1: while he basically says the most violent, sexist nonsense that

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Speaker 1: makes him sound like an alpha male like. Here is

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Speaker 1: his take on why he is anti breakfast. This is

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Speaker 1: an actual quote from him. I don't have food in

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Speaker 1: the mornings. I don't like the idea of breakfast, waking

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Speaker 1: up from sleep instantly with available food that you didn't

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Speaker 1: have to hunt and kill. Breakfast breathes arrogance and laziness.

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Speaker 1: I will not eat until work has been done. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I start my day with hunger and memories. My path

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Speaker 1: to the top wasn't a straight line. There's been bumps

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Speaker 1: in the road, tears, blood. I sit and remember the

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Speaker 1: worst times of my life, the pain and the heartache.

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Speaker 1: Some mornings, if I try, I can almost cry. I

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Speaker 1: take all that anguish and pain and then add a

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Speaker 1: little nicotine and caffeine to set my blood on fire,

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Speaker 1: and I enter the world ready to win life or die.

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Speaker 1: While I'm trying, angry men siege nations. I don't have

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Speaker 1: time for cheerios. The universe will pay me what she

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Speaker 1: owes me all the money and power I deserve. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: sounds pretty healthy. Definitely sounds like someone who is going

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Speaker 1: to help these start to the day and encouraging others

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Speaker 1: to do the same. Let's say a quick break center back.

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Speaker 1: Andrew Tate's brand of hyper violence, toxic hyper masculinity, and

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Speaker 1: misogyny basically says that women are property of men. This

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Speaker 1: is something that he's actually said, and he advocates for

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Speaker 1: men using violence and relationships. He outright said that if

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Speaker 1: a woman ever asked him about cheating, he would physically

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Speaker 1: attack her. In a really good piece for Grid, reporter

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Speaker 1: Christian Thorsburg spoke to Josh Ross, a political sociologist and

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Speaker 1: senior research fellow at Deacon University in Melbourne, who says

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Speaker 1: that Tate represents a dramatic shift taking place in online misogyny,

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Speaker 1: moving beyond the sexualization and dismissal of women which much

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Speaker 1: of Tate's material promotes, to also encouraging gendered hate and violence.

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Speaker 1: So basically, it's not just men are better than women,

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Speaker 1: it's men are better than women, and therefore men should

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Speaker 1: be able to use violence in service of establishing and

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Speaker 1: maintaining that hierarchy. And this is even more troubling when

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Speaker 1: you consider that the majority of Tate's audience are young

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Speaker 1: men and boys. Teachers have been writing about how Andrew

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Speaker 1: Tate's popularity with boys has been creating problems and disturbances

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Speaker 1: in their classrooms. So Tate is popular with boys, but

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Speaker 1: he's also really popular with young men who are just

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Speaker 1: starting to navigate their way into young adulthood. Going back

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Speaker 1: to Rus from that grid piece, Ruce also said, if

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Speaker 1: you want to know where Andrew Tate is gaining traction,

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Speaker 1: it's more likely to be the white collar sector. Among

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Speaker 1: educated younger men who work out at gyms on the

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Speaker 1: weekend or after work. Younger men are more likely to

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Speaker 1: hold anti women attitudes in terms of women's rights, that

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Speaker 1: women's rights has gone too far. So on top of

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Speaker 1: all this, Andrew Tate is also a scammer. Let's get

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Speaker 1: that straight right away. He used to operate a porn

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Speaker 1: webcam business with his brother that his brother outright described

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Speaker 1: as quote a big scam, But that scam is actually

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Speaker 1: the least scammy scam that Andrew Tate is involved in,

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Speaker 1: because his whole thing, his whole ethos, his whole identity

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Speaker 1: is a scam. So I've actually written about the ways

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Speaker 1: that misogynistic podcasters and content creators and influencers who make

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Speaker 1: up the manosphere are all basically just scamming. They prey

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Speaker 1: on men and boys with low media literacy who may

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Speaker 1: feel lonely. They get into their heads and convince them

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Speaker 1: to send over money. Podcasts like Fitting Fresh, the late

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Speaker 1: Kevin Samuel's they all basically convinced young men and boys

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Speaker 1: to send them lots and lots of money or give

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Speaker 1: them lots and lots of engagement in service of learning

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Speaker 1: how to become high value men. I actually wrote a

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Speaker 1: piece on this for the Nation, talking about the Fresh

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Speaker 1: and Fit podcast, which you can read in the show notes.

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Speaker 1: Let's gay a quick break center back, So let's talk

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Speaker 1: about Andrew Tad's scam. Specifically, it is called Hustlers University,

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Speaker 1: where for the low low cost of fifty dollars a month,

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Speaker 1: men and boys can learn about cryptocurrency from three guys

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Speaker 1: named Michael, Adam, and Daniel no less name given, and

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Speaker 1: learn about just the general concept of quote freelancing from

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Speaker 1: Dylan and Colston no less name given. Also, given that

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Speaker 1: Andrew Tad's audience mostly includes young men and boys, don't worry.

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Speaker 1: According to Hustlers Universities, frequently asked questions it is not

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Speaker 1: a problem if you are not a legal adult, because

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Speaker 1: they have plenty of young guys inside of Hustlers University

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Speaker 1: who are below eighteen and are pulling in several thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars a month, do you have access to the internet.

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Speaker 1: That's all you need. By the way, this is a

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Speaker 1: little bit picky, but I just have to say it.

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Speaker 1: On the Hustlers University website frequently ask questions, it says

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Speaker 1: that you do not need any money to start because

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Speaker 1: most of the Hustlers University students are doing freelance work,

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Speaker 1: and that freelance work does not require any money to do.

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Speaker 1: Take it from an actual, honest to god freelancer, this

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Speaker 1: is just incorrect financial advice. You absolutely need money to freelance.

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Speaker 1: And when their tax bill comes, I hope the people

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Speaker 1: who were told that they need zero dollars to freelance

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Speaker 1: are not surprised when the government expects him to pay

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Speaker 1: self employment taxes. So again, you can see how he's

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Speaker 1: kind of praying on people who might not have a

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Speaker 1: lot of financial literacy or media literacy. And it's awful.

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Speaker 1: And it gets worse because guess what. The entire thing

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Speaker 1: is basically a pyramid scheme. Like most pyramid schemes, the

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Speaker 1: courses aren't really the thing. The thing is getting others

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Speaker 1: to sign up for the courses. Students of the program

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Speaker 1: got a commission for convincing other dupes to join via

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Speaker 1: affiliate marketing. So just like lu La Row and every

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Speaker 1: other MLM scam that somebody from your high school message

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Speaker 1: you about on Facebook who was all like, hey, hon,

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Speaker 1: have you ever thought about starting your own business? I

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Speaker 1: think you would really slay at it. It's a scam,

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Speaker 1: and honestly probably a lucrative one. According to The Daily Beast,

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Speaker 1: the program had some a hundred and nine thousand members

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Speaker 1: before its closure. And this is actually why you might

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Speaker 1: know who Tate is because Tate specifically told his students

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Speaker 1: to flood social media with videos of his content to

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Speaker 1: promote his scam university. According to Hope Not Hate, a

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Speaker 1: UK based advocacy group that uses research to challenge mistrust

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Speaker 1: and racism, Tate tells his supporters they can earn significant

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Speaker 1: sums by sharing his videos. In one podcast, he claimed

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Speaker 1: that a sixteen year old hustler University student was making

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Speaker 1: forty five thousand pounds a month from publishing his clips

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Speaker 1: on the TikTok, which is basically how he gamified the program.

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Speaker 1: Even though he's banned from TikTok. His content is still

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Speaker 1: really prevalent there because his students just flood the space

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Speaker 1: with his content. And I think he definitely is someone

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Speaker 1: who needs social media. He's just game in the algorithms

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Speaker 1: because he knows that algorithms specifically boost inflammatory content. They

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Speaker 1: will always give content that is inflammatory or divisive more engagement.

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Speaker 1: Andrew Tate was a banned from Twitter back in seventeen

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Speaker 1: over a thread commenting on Harvey Weinstein where he said quote,

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Speaker 1: if you put yourself in a position to be raped,

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Speaker 1: you must bear some responsibility. I'm not saying it's okay

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Speaker 1: you got raped. And TikTok took down Andrew Tate's account

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Speaker 1: for breaking its policies regarding quote content that attacks, threatens,

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Speaker 1: incites violence against for otherwise to humanize as an individual

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Speaker 1: or group based on attributes including sex. This is what

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Speaker 1: a TikTok spokesperson told The Washington Post. He was also

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Speaker 1: kicked off Facebook and Instagram for violating the rules around

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Speaker 1: dangerous organizations and individuals. But as always, let's not give

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Speaker 1: the platforms to you much credit. Pretty much, whenever they

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Speaker 1: decide to remove somebody who was dangerous from their platform,

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Speaker 1: or make any kind of policy change like this, it's

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Speaker 1: typically because of the work of organizers who have been

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Speaker 1: pushing them behind the scenes, and this time it's no different.

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Speaker 1: Hope not Hate filed a petition for platforms to drop

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Speaker 1: Andrew Tate and has been monitoring him for years. So

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Speaker 1: great job to all the organizers who did the work

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Speaker 1: behind the scenes to make this happen. But also what

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Speaker 1: we learned from how Alex Jones uses Facebook. You might

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Speaker 1: remember that Mark Zuckerberg personally intervened so that even after

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Speaker 1: Alex Jones was banned from Facebook, he carved out a

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Speaker 1: loophole so that other people could still post his content

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Speaker 1: on the platform. Even though Tate has been banned from

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Speaker 1: these platforms, it might not actually even really matter if

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Speaker 1: his whole thing is having other people, his students, post

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Speaker 1: his content on his behalf. And I also should just

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Speaker 1: probably note that in April, The Daily Beasts reported that

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Speaker 1: Andrew Tate's house in Romania was rated as part of

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Speaker 1: an investigation into crime of human trafficking in rape. Tate

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Speaker 1: lives in Romania, and in a now deleted YouTube video,

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Speaker 1: he said that the reason why he moved there is

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Speaker 1: because Romanian police were less likely to pursue sexual assault allegations.

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Speaker 1: Um so yeah, you tell me and to me. Andrew

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Speaker 1: Tate represents the mainstreaming of really violent, dangerous ideas and

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Speaker 1: rhetoric and those things, you know, not just being fringe

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Speaker 1: but flooding popular social media apps like TikTok. Tate has

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Speaker 1: also treated like a thought leader. He's given a huge

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Speaker 1: platform by popular podcasts like bar Stool, which gives him

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Speaker 1: a huge audience of a young man and boys and

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Speaker 1: hosts who really don't push back on any of the

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Speaker 1: dangerous things that he's saying. And overall, like I've said

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Speaker 1: time and time again, these people are all scam artists.

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Speaker 1: They do not care about their audience. They do not

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Speaker 1: care about the men and boys that they're talking to,

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Speaker 1: They do not care about the students of their so

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Speaker 1: called universities. To them, these men and boys and their

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Speaker 1: pain and loneliness and anger is just a that can

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Speaker 1: be exploited and weaponized to make more cash. It is

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Speaker 1: the most cynical, exploitative ship in the world and it works. Listen.

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Speaker 1: To be clear, I am not against people asking tough

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Speaker 1: questions and having the thorny media conversations about relationships sex

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Speaker 1: and gender. In fact, I believe that we need more

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Speaker 1: people spearheading those conversations in meaningful and thoughtful ways. But

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Speaker 1: Andrew Tate is not actually interested in men and boys

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Speaker 1: having healthy relationships, because people who are in healthy relationships

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Speaker 1: do not send over fifty dollars a month to a

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Speaker 1: charlatan to teach them how to be high value successful men.

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Speaker 1: People like Tate need to keep their audience of men

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Speaker 1: and boys angry. They need to stoke their feelings of

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Speaker 1: loneliness and inadequacy and anchor and tell them to keep

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Speaker 1: pointing those feelings at women so they keep shelling over

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Speaker 1: more money. So this is my call to everyone listening.

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Speaker 1: If you have a young man or boy in your life,

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Speaker 1: talk to them about what kind of content they're consuming,

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Speaker 1: talk to them about what they think about women and girls,

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Speaker 1: and you honestly might be surprised. And it really really matters.

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Speaker 1: The implications are huge. Here's how Laura Bates, author of

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Speaker 1: Men Who Hate Women, put it during our interview. We've

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Speaker 1: never really seen it because we are at the kind

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Speaker 1: of hovering on the edge of the first real generation

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Speaker 1: coming of age who have lived their whole lives on

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Speaker 1: social media. We have this kind of unique political moment

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Speaker 1: that never really gets picked up on this. I find

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Speaker 1: it wild that we're living at this moment in history

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Speaker 1: has never happened before and will never happen again, and

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Speaker 1: yet it's never really discussed where a generation of non

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Speaker 1: digital natives is parenting and educating a generation of digital natives,

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Speaker 1: and there is this chasm there, this huge gap in

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Speaker 1: culture and understanding of what their world is like, what

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Speaker 1: the day to day landscape of their online world is

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Speaker 1: like amongst parents who grew up in a pre Internet age,

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Speaker 1: and that generation will becoming of age, and what will

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Speaker 1: that look like when our political representatives are being drawn

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Speaker 1: from a generation who have literally grown up with the

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Speaker 1: sheer daily bombardment of racism and misogyny and transphobia that

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Speaker 1: comes with living your life on the Internet in the

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Speaker 1: way that young people do today. And I don't think

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Speaker 1: we'll know what that looks like until we get there,

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Speaker 1: and I think when we do, it will be a shock.

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Speaker 1: But for now, Andrew Tate, good riddance. And if this

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Speaker 1: means I have to see one last video of a

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Speaker 1: guy wearing sunglasses inside and smoking a cigar on my

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Speaker 1: for you page, I'll take it. If you're looking for

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Speaker 1: ways to support the show, check out our March store

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Speaker 1: at tangodi dot com Slash Store. Got a story about

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Speaker 1: an interesting thing in tech, or just want to say hi,

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Speaker 1: You can reach us at Hello at tangodi dot com.

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Speaker 1: You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangdi

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Speaker 1: dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet was

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Speaker 1: created by me bridgetad. It's a production of I Heeart

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Speaker 1: Radio and Unboss Creative, edited by Joey Pat Jonathan Strickland

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Speaker 1: as our executive producer. Terry Harrison is our producer and

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Speaker 1: sound engineer. Michael Motto is our contributing producer. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate

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Speaker 1: and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio, check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast

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Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah